April 24, 2025 • 30 mins
What Meg's been drinking: Hirsch Hill Rose
- Pizzini La Volpe Nebbiolo $35
- 2022 Traviarti Mezzo Nebbiolo $45
- Fontanafredda Langhe Nebbiolo $40
- Fontanafredda Barolo DOCG $110
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel.
We are here to help younavigate the world of wine.
I'm Mel Goulik, who is joinedby Master of Wine Meg Brotman.
Meg, do you want to introducetoday's episode, Nebbiolo?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Nebbiolo Australia versus Italy.
Well, australia versus Italy.
We have discussed at lengthover our time together that when
Australians do Italian grapevarieties, the tannin is what
we're looking for.
We really want that sort ofItalianate spear-like tannin.
So we thought we'd have a lookat a couple of Aussie or a
(00:43):
couple of Victorian.
To be honest, nebbiolos versussome different quality levels,
including a Barolo from Italy.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, and that's the thing that I had observed that
Sangiovese was everywhere for awhile, which led people to
understanding what Chianti is,and it feels like that came
before Nebbiolo, but all of asudden, nebbiolo seems to be the
one that everyone is figuringout exists.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, I think Sangiovese is a bit of a gateway
to Nebbiolo, because if you canhandle Sangiovese tannins, then
you can definitely step up andhandle Nebbiolo tannins.
That's true, and that's thething that separates them.
We've said it before and we'veseen it in WCT students when you
give them a Barolo, even thoughthey're not the friendliest
wines, their eyes are just likeoh my God, they can see the
quality level in a Barolo.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So it's one of our favourite.
So Riesling and Nebbiolo wouldbe my two desert island wines.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I don't know Mine would be.
Don't look at me, I have noidea.
Yeah, champagne, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Champagne.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's hard to keep cold.
I'll be over everything bychampagne, and you'll be like
Mel, can I come to your islandand I'll be like I'm not
swimming all the way over there.
I'm just drinking my racing inNebbiolo.
It's 40 degrees and you've gotNebbiolo.
You're an idiot.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Where's your fridge on your desert island?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
bitch.
So your champagne's hot Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Meg.
Okay, meg, what have you beendrinking?
So you'll know, in summer youpopped in, had a bit of a swim
with the beautiful little bellyI did, and Pete, my husband, who
is the winemaker at Hersch Hill, offered you some rosé and he
offered it to me and I said Iwant to drink rosé and I've
actually drunk it and it ispretty bloody delicious.
So I need to take backeverything I've said.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I was also like I don't know, rose, I bet like I
was being polite because youknow I was at your house.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, you kind of have to.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
You have a pool.
You were giving me wine.
I wasn't going to be like yuck,especially because he made it,
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
That's the thing Never judge a winemaker on their
rose, though.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I was like, yes, of course I'd love some.
Meg was just like no, what elsehave you got?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
No, that's true it was really good, it was actually
really nice and I think maybethe moment, because that's where
you're going to drink rosébecause you're not going to
think about it.
We'd had margaritas beforehandfrozen, margaritas left over
from Billy's birthday.
So, gosh, it must have beenlike a month ago now.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, it was a while ago.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Anyway, so that's what I've been drinking Herschel
Rose.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Love it, yes, fun fact so.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Fowles Winery in Victoria has been looking at a
micro bat study.
So insects in the vineyard cancause damage and there's some
evidence from cotton fieldstudies that micro bats so
they're basically small bats caneat the nasty insects and can
be used in vineyards.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yes, yeah, no, this is part of eco vineyards.
Yeah, so this is part of thewhole study.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , Cool, cool, cool, cool cool.
So this is in the StrathbogieRanges.
They found that there were 172fauna species recorded in their
vineyards, so they had cameras.
So hundreds of different thingsfloating around and 12 species
of insect-eating bats yeah, cool.
And so this has all been funded.
This is part of oursustainability journey and I
just thought you know it'sreally cool.
(03:53):
Fowls is not a particularlylarge.
I mean it is for the region,yeah, they do.
Ladies who shoot their lunchyeah, but yeah, good to see
people are, you know, investingback into what hopefully will,
at the end of the day, save themmoney if they don't have to use
insecticides and can justpromote the cute little bats,
although I hate bats.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
There's a lot of really cool initiatives as part
of it.
Tom Hinton has a lot of batsyeah.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I remember back in the day working there and there
were bats everywhere at night.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But like because we're part of the eco-vineyard
study as well, and like thestuff that they get you to do
with, like worm counts, I knowit's really cool.
I don't know if we're doing it,but one of the like things that
they're getting some of thewineries to do is put in
predator bird.
Just put in a giant pole.
That predator birds appeals tothem so they want to sit on it
(04:42):
and then if there's predatorbirds hanging around, then the
little birds won't come and eatthe.
Yeah, exactly, so you don'tneed nets.
How easy is that?
You don't need the bird.
What are the bird sprays calledHerbicides, fungicides?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
By birds.
You don't spray for birds, youuse nets or the lasers.
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, wow, yes.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Okay, okay, well, yes , okay, so don't need birds but
anyway.
But it means it's late, kind ofroughly, as being in the fog,
cloudy, so it means it ripenslater in the year when the fog
starts to come in in the autumns.
Okay, so it's a late ripeninggrape variety, relatively thin
skinned, renowned for itssearing tannins.
Classic grape descriptors orflavour descriptors are tar and
roses.
There's a lot of cherry inthere, aged traditionally in old
(05:30):
sort of 600-litre casks, butmore common now, more common
modern winemaking in classicbarrels like 300 hogsheads or
225-litre barriques.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, so what Meg just said is they used to be in
really extra big barrels, butnow they're in the normal
barrels that you would see andrecognise.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Sorry, yes, and the minimum ageing it varies across
the Piemonte.
So Barolo is obviously theabsolute apex of Nebbiolo
production.
I think it's two years in oak,and then Barbaresco is a little
bit lower, and then you've gotother regions like Lange, which
makes Nebbiolo as well.
So it is a great, great varietythat loves the cool weather,
(06:12):
generally growing in thesecooler climates, and really is
not the nicest wine when it'sfirst released as a young wine.
So in Barola, the currentrelease, I think we're on 2019.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yes, yeah, yeah okay.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So we in Australia obviously don't live by those
rules.
But I think it needs quite afew years at least three to four
to come together, even in theLange, which is another region
of Piemonte but is not asprestigious as Barolo and
doesn't have the same ageingrequirements.
It needs some time.
So I thought if we were goingto do Nebbiolo from Australia we
(06:49):
had to be looking at a climatenot dissimilar to what they were
doing.
So we didn't want to do aMcLaren Vale Nebbiolo, no.
So I've gone to.
They're both Victorian wines,so Pizzini, so it's King Valley.
So it's our cooler climateregion, which has a great
Italian heritage.
Yeah, it does, it's cool.
So the Italians were broughtout to work in the snowy
(07:11):
mountain scheme and then theymoved on to farms and they grew
tobacco and they grew hops.
It was a big hops growingregion.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I didn't realise.
That's why it's all Italian outthere.
That's cool, it's all the hopskilns all across.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, right, yeah, that's cool, yeah, anyway,
between Myrtleford and Bright,there's all the hops, yeah,
anyway.
So, yeah, they were brought outfor the Snowy River scheme,
which, for those who don't know,was a big dam.
We brought in.
We didn't have enough people,it was post-war, so we brought
in Italians and, well, justeveryone from Europe.
(07:47):
Basically, the policy was thewhiter, the better, right, this
is how racist we were.
I'm sorry, but we've moved onfrom that.
Anyway, once they were finishedbuilding this scheme, they moved
to their farms and it is agreat region because it is very,
very, very Italian.
You know, pete and I were thereKing's birthday last year and
(08:09):
literally, pizza on the side ofthe road, these guys have got a
pizza oven on the back of atrailer.
It's so cool, and Nonno isbringing the wood over, yeah,
and they only did three types ofpizzas for like 15 bucks each.
It was just fantastic, anyway,yeah, so I have Pizzini.
It's so good.
Italian family.
Yes, la Volpe Nebbiolo, kingValley 2023.
(08:33):
So the first thing we noticeit's 13% alcohol.
Nebbiolo always has a light,pale garnet colour.
It is always on that.
It's not in that ruby, red,pink spectrum, it's always on
that more orangey, brickingterracotta spectrum.
So that's what you want fromNebbiolo Always pale in colour.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I get more sort of cherries than rose petal with
this.
Yeah, it always just smellsbricky to me, like bricks I
can't describe.
Have you ever smelled brick?
Brick is no weirder thing tosay than like whetstone.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I know what you mean.
It's like that drying clay,terracotta, pot sort of smell,
baked earth kind ofcharacteristics.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you, you helped me out.
Yeah, it is quite sort of redberry floral, it's like
something tomatoey.
Yeah, you're right, it's likeyou know, when you grill
(09:34):
tomatoes for the old mixed grill, no one likes a hot tomato.
I mean seriously, really.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
No, I don't hate it.
I think I'd rather it than acold one.
Yeah, I would.
I don't like love it, but if Iwas having breakfast I'd eat it.
That way I'd be less inclinedto eat it.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, that's why I don't like ham cheese tomato,
sandwiches, toasties Just don'tsee how that works.
Don't like hot tomato?
I mean, I don't mind a tintomato, but like a fresh anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I digress Not much consistency to what you're
saying, but anyway, yes, tomato,okay, I love the nose.
What are you thinking?
Because I feel like maybeyou're torn or something.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I have high expectations of Nebbiolo.
I'm a bit of a traditionalistand I do think I think it should
smell like it comes from Italy.
This is more fruit-driven thansomething that I would expect
from Italy, but still has afamilial link to Nebbiolo.
And then on the palate, itdefinitely has those lovely Neb
tannins.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's exactly what it should be, yeah and it needs
pizza.
I'm glad it's not a carbon copy.
True, and this is the thingit's got Australian flair.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
These plants are probably really, really young.
Yep, we're still learning howto work with it.
There's no evident oak on itPrice.
I'd have to have a look.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I think that's freaking good.
I think it's $35.
I just looked it up.
I know that we weren't going todigress and we were going to
actually try and be in time forthis one, but I have to tell you
that, pizzini, I saw an ad outthe other day.
It was Pizzini Sangiovese andthe ad read yes, your pizza is
capable.
No, yes, your bolognese iscapable of judging you.
(11:14):
Oh, I laughed.
Yeah, that is pretty cool.
On one hand, I'm like, oh, Ihate us being pretentious and
feeling like we're excludingpeople and stuff, and on the
other hand, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It is funny and it's something that I think everyone
can relate to, because everyonehas the perfect bolognese recipe
, don't they?
Yeah, my only complaint ifyou're being a purist is that
don't grow Sangiovese in Bologna.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, I don't want to have gotten it wrong now.
Bologna is a.
It might not have beenbolognese, it might have just
been pasta.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Okay, so don't judge them too harshly.
Bologna is Lambrusco country.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Mmm, mmm, mmm.
That's freaking.
Yum.
I really like Pizzini.
Every time I taste Pizzini, I'mimpressed.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I love them because they're just quite little
achievers.
They've got like this familyheritage and they're just
getting on with it and they'renot dicking around and they're
really proud supporters of theVictorian wine industry, like
they really wave the flag forVictoria, which I think
sometimes we don't do enough ofin the Yarra, although everyone
(12:25):
seems to think that we're theposh rich cousins.
But anyway, I digress.
We now have Beechworth.
Beechworth cool climate, sortof near Rutherglen, but so it
has a very continental climate.
I have had actually boughtquite a lot of this wine before.
It's a Traviati BeechworthNebbiolo.
(12:47):
What vintage is it?
Mm-mm.
22.
And is it Mezzo, something theytend to use Mezzo Nebbiolo?
Yeah, mezzo, what's that mean?
No, they tend to use musicterms.
Oh, because I think there's anopera one as well.
From memory it's a family smallproducer.
This was from Dan Murphy's, Ithink it was about 45-ish 75?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Really, that's what their website says.
Maybe I'll try dance and see ifit's different.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
This is my problem.
I go to the shop and I justdon't even take any notice of
the prices.
It's terrible.
I'm under.
My husband looks at the creditcard and goes what the fuck are
you mean buying?
Spent $248 on Sarkozy onSaturday.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
You've said before how that, like when you buy
something, you take like $15 offthe price or whatever.
It's so funny how ingrained itis in your mind that we
literally can see it.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But the thing is, you know I don't spend a lot on
clothes.
I do spend a bit on shoes, butI don't spend a lot on clothes.
So you know you probably spenda lot on clothes and makeup and
shit.
I just spend it on wine.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, enough, I guess .
Yeah, Is it 125?
No, I can't even find it atDan's.
It must have been.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I'll give you the receipt.
You can put it on the thing.
Anyway, let's try it.
So it's got a nice colour.
Oh, it's a little bit more,almost.
This has got the tar, the bakedearth $45, you're right?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, I didn't think it was that expensive $45.
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
There's some sour cherry in there as well.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Tar for sure, Tar is it On a hot day when you can
smell the road?
That's what it smells like.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Oh no, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
But it's much more.
Black fruit it's deeper, it'sricher, it's like gruntier.
It's deeper, it's richer, it'slike gruntier.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The tannins are superb.
They're perfect.
Oh, well done.
I knew I'd bought this.
I seem to remember that Iworked with someone who was
maybe going out with thedaughter of the owner.
Anyway, that's how I wasintroduced to it first, and I
did buy some pre-COVID and I didlove it.
But this is obviously.
The vines are older.
You've just got a little bitmore complexity in the wine.
(15:04):
I think there's a subtle sortof tiny vanilla characteristic,
so I'm assuming there's a littlebit of oak in there, but
there's not a lot of new oak.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
The tannin is a lot.
Oh yeah, but great.
I would personally want to siton that for a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Oh yeah, yeah.
This is the other thing aboutthe Viola it is it's infanticide
.
It is too young, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But the panese Panese you can drink now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah you drink that.
Panese.
I know, I know, pizzini you candrink now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you drinkthat Pizzini.
No, I don't Thinking about thesandwich.
We're in the third podrecording today.
It's starting to get to my head.
Pizzini, yum, yum, drink now.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
This one is way more serious and I would definitely
age it and the tannins do needtime to come together.
Oh my God, that is so good $45,.
Buy a half a dozen becausethat's a lot of money.
You probably get a discount forsix.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Out of stock.
On their website it says it wasa dance.
Hopefully we can find more.
If not, maybe we'll have tosend them an email and be like
we might have some people thatwant to buy this.
Seriously, it was it my desk,just get online now?
Oh, no, here we go Nebio,annadale, salas, okay, so
there's different drop, there'sa few different places where you
(16:31):
can get it, so just shop around, just look for it, but buy
yourself half a dozen and hideit away until what's 2022,
probably about 2027, 2030.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Delicious, don't want to pull that out.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I'm like we're excited about the Pizzini.
I don't know you what.
Maybe it's just the fact thatit's too young still, but I just
loved the Pizzini.
Maybe it's because I'm a supertester mate.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think for me I might be a bit of a Nebbiolo
snob, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
So I have an expectation that the wines are
going to be quite.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
See, I'm a woman of the people.
That's true, I am Basic bitch.
In other words, no, no, nottrue.
The.
That's true, I am Basic bitch.
In other words, no, no, nottrue.
The people's princess.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Not any of this.
The other episode when I waslike I haven't had much aged
Saturday and you're all likewhat you haven't had much aged
Burgundy, and I went no, meg, Ihaven't.
I know.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I know to be fair, I haven't for.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
No, I know I know To be fair, I haven't for a while.
Yeah, if anyone wants to giveus a mage bear, give me.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Help Mel.
We'll start a GoFundMe page.
Oh my God we should.
I'm so deserving.
The next thing we have underour wonderful current, which
we've just mastered, it hasn'ttaken long Fontana, freda,
langhi.
So Langhi is a region withinPiemonte.
Aging requirements for thewines is shorter, I think it's
(18:12):
only sort of six months.
So this is a 2023 wine, somaybe a year.
I'm not really sure.
It's a DOC versus a DOCG fromBarolo and I love Langonebiolo A
.
It's affordable.
It has a violet character to it.
There's still that tar androses.
It's more of your Pizzini DrinkNow style than, oh God, throw
(18:35):
it.
You've got to age it for like400 years.
It's more of the PeepersPrincess wine, which is what you
are.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yes, okay, num, num, num.
This is what Billy does.
When she's waiting for me tocook her breakfast or something,
she stands there going num, num, num, num, num this is me as
you pour the wine.
Num, num, num, num, num.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So bright colour, it is it is bricky and garnet Yep.
I drink a lot of Lange Nebbiolo, so for me Lange has a little
bit of the tar and roses, butthere's a real dried woody herb
character about it.
People in France, which woodyherb?
(19:20):
Okay.
So if you're talking about woHerb's oregano or oregano thyme,
rosemary, oh, which one do youget in this?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Which one would you expect?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I guess Sort of it's like a mix of you know when you.
We have a bit of a.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
We have a temperamental microphone.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Microphone.
It's like Neumann, neumann, doyou have a herb garden?
No, okay, if you have a herbgarden, you run your hands over
the woody herbs and it's sort ofall together.
Garig is something that wewould say in France, but it's
more oregano.
Thyme, okay, not rosme.
Okay, not rosemary, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, definitely.
Okay, sorry, I cut you off.
What else would you expect?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So that's for me, sets Langier apart, so obviously
it's less ripe.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Okay, I think is what I'm kind of saying and I do, I
get that it has more of a herbalcharacter.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So it doesn't have as much taro and roses and that
sort of sour, dry cherry thatyou get in Barolos and
Barbarescos.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It's like potpourri, Exactly yeah it smells like
potpourri.
Perfect.
It smells really nice.
I keep not drinking it becauseI just keep smelling it.
I love wines like that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
See that's just friendly and approachable and
just needs a good bloody Wagyusteak.
See, it doesn't have theconcentration of fruit of a
Barolo.
It's sort of the fruit reallysits in the middle of your
palate and then it's just thetannins talking.
It doesn't have that same depthof character of fruit.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
But do you not think a steak would overwhelm that?
Like that's actually not asuper powerful, intense, no, but
a Wagyu steak, which is like90% fat.
Oh, is there a difference?
I don't know my steaks, I don'teat steak, so we just bought
some Wagyu $60 a kilo oh my God,down from $109.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Wow, so, yeah, one steak is.
Is that only $40?
Yeah, yeah, this is cheap, good, isn't it?
And this is the thing aboutLungy.
Lungy is between $40 and $45.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh, this is good.
It's good, isn't it it is?
Oh no, I love this, Like thisis.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So there's a great winemaker called Dave Fletcher.
He's an Australian who makesthe wines for Chirrito, which is
a producer in Barolo, but hemakes an amazing.
It's called Fletch LangeNebbiolo, If you can get it.
You can usually get it at thePrince Wine Store.
It's about $45, but most LangeNebs sit around that $45 mark.
(22:01):
They don't have as much oak,they don't have as much aging,
they don't have as muchconcentration, but I still think
for you know, entry-level at$45.
It's still pretty expensive,but entry-level Neb, yeah, it's
pretty yum.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
This in terms of like , intensity or approachability.
It sits exactly in the middleof the first two that we tasted
and, funnily enough, the pricesits exactly in the middle as
well.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I love it, but it needs food.
I don't know.
Yeah, like I guess it does.
It's a bit raspy on the tongue,but yeah, it's got this once
again with my weird tastingnotes, but it's like rust in a
nice way.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It tastes orange, but I really like it Like rust,
like blood kind of flavour.
No, not like blood.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Irony, no, not irony.
No, no, no, no, it doesn'ttaste like blood, I don't know.
Have you?
Yeah, I know what you mean.
No, I don't know, I get rust,but maybe it's.
No, it's just this sameterracotta thing.
Okay, it's the same brickiness,yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So that's Lange.
That is my recommendation.
If you want to have Neb, he'sLange.
Oh, buy that $40.
This is awesome.
So what we've got now is thesame producer with Barolo.
Now, I don't think that theseare the highest top end
producers in.
You know the world of Baroloand I don't know how much the
(23:28):
Barolo cost.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You don't know how much this Barolo cost.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, I bought it at Danmovies.
I had to pay on my credit card,so I forgot to take the gift
cards.
Oh my God, meg.
No well, I figured I'd just usethe gift cards to buy wine for
me at some point.
Yeah, yeah, fair the same withthe $149 Riesling.
I just pray that Pete doesn'tlook at the credit card.
Oh, fuck it, life's short.
(23:55):
Okay, so I have Fontana FredaBarolo 2019.
So, current release 2019.
I'm sure they have changed therules, but I'm pretty sure it's
two years minimum in oak andthen two years in bottle or
vessel, so it could be in a tankor in a bottle before you
release it.
Okay, again, two sort of typesof producers.
(24:17):
There's the modern producersthat are using more smaller
format oak and there's the olderproducers that are using the
older format.
Was it $95?
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, I'll.
Member off Full price.
It's $110.
Fucking, you basically mademoney.
Is it $95?
Yeah, on member offer Fullprice.
It's $110.
Bargain, you basically mademoney Because it was so cheap.
On the member offer.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, I did.
It's like half price.
Anyway, I'm sure it'll bedelicious.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Wine maths, yeah, yeah.
No, I'm really excited.
I haven't had Barolo in a while.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I love Barolo, me too .
Actually, we might have to makea bit of a.
All right, you can do yours,come here, friend.
So what do I expect from Barolo?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Hang on, hang on.
Do you love Barolo so much?
You're not even going tocomment on the weight of this
bottle.
Every other bottle that existsin this podcast, you've
commented on the weight, andthis is the one that you just
like yes, naughty, fontana,freda, that should be in a
lightweight bottle.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Okay, continue.
No, I do agree.
Well, what's the?
Oh, this is a good one.
Yeah, this is punted burgundylightweight.
Look, small, punt, fancy one.
Oh, yeah, there you go, sothey've made up for it.
No, seriously, everyone shouldmove to lightweight, but God,
it's impossible to move people.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So what would I expect from Barolo versus Lange
or Lesser Nebbiolo's grown inPiemonte?
This is going to be infanticide.
This is going to be a harddrink to drink because it's 2019
.
So the tannins are going to bereally strong.
Possibly some more new oak Idon't know this producer
particularly well so I don'tknow.
(26:02):
Based on their label, I'mthinking maybe not, Might be
older oak, Tar roses, driedroses, sour cherry.
Less of that woody herbcharacter that you get in Lange.
More of that rose petal.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
It's kind of smoky and meaty.
Oh, it is.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Dried blueberries, yeah Smoky.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
There is a bit of dried rose, but it's not Bacon.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, bacon, oh oh oh oh tar Bit of burnt rubber.
That's not a good sign.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Smells deep.
It smells deep like a well,okay.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So, to simplify, I think Barolo is more savoury
than other Nebbiolos in theregion.
Do you think that would be afair?
It's almost got a soy umamicharacter.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
It does Yep, yep, yep , yep.
It made me think of mushrooms.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Mmm, those dried ones that you get in the Asian and
then you rehydrate them yeah,yeah, yeah.
I think they're shiitake.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Shiitake Mushrooms.
Yeah, it is.
It's a lot more savoury, a lotmore deeper and again, it's
supposed to be drunk with some.
Do you know what it looks solight in the glass?
It looks so If you were to lookat that, you would think that
it's a nice bright juicy.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
But this is the thing about Nebbiolo and, to a degree
, sangiovese.
They trick you because you'reright, we expect these.
We associate theselighter-coloured wines with
softer, gentler wines and thosetannins are like just searing.
I love Nebbiolo tannins.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
They are, they're hectic.
That's, that's um, that'sreally cool, yum, okay, so is.
Do you think that nebbiolo isthe next sanjo veyzi?
Are people embracing it likethey did sanjo, and do you think
it?
(28:12):
Do you think that the styleswe're making are standing up?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I think that that Pizzini is a good entry-level
style for people to getintroduced to Nebbiolo without,
as you would put it, the hectictannins.
Yeah, I think that Traviati is.
You know, it could stand on itsown as an Italian Nebbiolo, but
it is too young.
The thing is with Nebbiolo itdoes tend to need a little bit
of time.
A Sangiovese you can kind ofrelease on the market and good
(28:45):
to go.
So do we sort of go down thatsort of wankville of you've got
to age this wine before you candrink it, which is not realistic
.
Do wineries hold it back beforethey release it or do they go
down the sort of style ofPizzini?
I think that there's room tomove on different styles with it
, and I don't think it's evergoing to be as popular as
(29:07):
Sangiovese.
Sangiovese what was that?
Did we just start hearingbagpipes or something?
I know that's mymother-in-law's phone ringing.
Oh, okay, okay.
I don't think it will be aspopular as Sanjivazi.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I agree that Pizzini couldbe, but everything else is a bit
more polarising.
Yeah, it's harder to get yourhead around.
And especially if it's the kindof thing that you have to age.
We just don't have that modelin Australia, that's right.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, so again, drink Pizzini and Lange.
That would be my kind of.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Start there, start with Pizzini, move to Lange.
If you're already familiar withNebbiolo, you can jump straight
in to the Traviati, andeveryone should drink Barolo
whenever given the chanceregardless.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I spend far too much money on Barolo.
It's getting really, reallyexpensive now because it is
having a bit of a moment and thething is there's different.
Oh, maybe, maybe our last DanMurphy's vouchers.
We should splurge on all theseven different vineyards in the
Sarah look.
Stop and it costs a lot of money.
(30:19):
Anyway, Nebbiolo, great, greatvariety.
I don't think it's going tobecome Sangiovese, but I think
it's sort of set aside it.
And as we move into winter,this is the thing Sangiovese and
Nebbiolo are really good.
Transitional they are, yeah,Because they're not big Shiraz's
or Cabernet's.
Moving on from the summeryGrenaches, chillable reds and
(30:41):
the Pinots, they've got a bit ofsavouriness, which is what
autumn's about.
Autumn's about mushrooms andtruffles.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I love it.
All right, we'll end there.
We'll be back with you nextweek.
I don't know what we're doingyet.
I need to consult.
She's got a plan, we do?
We have a plan.
We cannot do that whatever it is, it'll be great, we promise,
and we will see you then.
Read the news.
Read the news.
Yeah, news is coming out,although we're out of all the
(31:11):
news.
Anyway, enjoy your next glassthe news.
Yeah, yep, yep, news is comingout, although we're out of all
the news.
Anyway, enjoy your nose glassof wine, I do.
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel.
We are here to help younavigate the world of wine.
I'm Mel Goulik, who is joinedby Master of Wine Meg Brotman.
Meg, do you want to introducetoday's episode, Nebbiolo?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Nebbiolo Australia versus Italy.
Well, australia versus Italy.
We have discussed at lengthover our time together that when
Australians do Italian grapevarieties, the tannin is what
we're looking for.
We really want that sort ofItalianate spear-like tannin.
So we thought we'd have a lookat a couple of Aussie or a
(00:43):
couple of Victorian.
To be honest, nebbiolos versussome different quality levels,
including a Barolo from Italy.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, and that's the thing that I had observed that
Sangiovese was everywhere for awhile, which led people to
understanding what Chianti is,and it feels like that came
before Nebbiolo, but all of asudden, nebbiolo seems to be the
one that everyone is figuringout exists.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Yeah, I think Sangiovese is a bit of a gateway
to Nebbiolo, because if you canhandle Sangiovese tannins, then
you can definitely step up andhandle Nebbiolo tannins.
That's true, and that's thething that separates them.
We've said it before and we'veseen it in WCT students when you
give them a Barolo, even thoughthey're not the friendliest
wines, their eyes are just likeoh my God, they can see the
quality level in a Barolo.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
So it's one of our favourite.
So Riesling and Nebbiolo wouldbe my two desert island wines.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I don't know Mine would be.
Don't look at me, I have noidea.
Yeah, champagne, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Champagne.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It's hard to keep cold.
I'll be over everything bychampagne, and you'll be like
Mel, can I come to your islandand I'll be like I'm not
swimming all the way over there.
I'm just drinking my racing inNebbiolo.
It's 40 degrees and you've gotNebbiolo.
You're an idiot.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Where's your fridge on your desert island?
Speaker 1 (02:00):
bitch.
So your champagne's hot Okay.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Meg.
Okay, meg, what have you beendrinking?
So you'll know, in summer youpopped in, had a bit of a swim
with the beautiful little bellyI did, and Pete, my husband, who
is the winemaker at Hersch Hill, offered you some rosé and he
offered it to me and I said Iwant to drink rosé and I've
actually drunk it and it ispretty bloody delicious.
So I need to take backeverything I've said.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
I was also like I don't know, rose, I bet like I
was being polite because youknow I was at your house.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, you kind of have to.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
You have a pool.
You were giving me wine.
I wasn't going to be like yuck,especially because he made it,
I know.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
That's the thing Never judge a winemaker on their
rose, though.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I was like, yes, of course I'd love some.
Meg was just like no, what elsehave you got?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
No, that's true it was really good, it was actually
really nice and I think maybethe moment, because that's where
you're going to drink rosébecause you're not going to
think about it.
We'd had margaritas beforehandfrozen, margaritas left over
from Billy's birthday.
So, gosh, it must have beenlike a month ago now.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Yeah, it was a while ago.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Anyway, so that's what I've been drinking Herschel
Rose.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Love it, yes, fun fact so.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Fowles Winery in Victoria has been looking at a
micro bat study.
So insects in the vineyard cancause damage and there's some
evidence from cotton fieldstudies that micro bats so
they're basically small bats caneat the nasty insects and can
be used in vineyards.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yes, yeah, no, this is part of eco vineyards.
Yeah, so this is part of thewhole study.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , Cool, cool, cool, cool cool.
So this is in the StrathbogieRanges.
They found that there were 172fauna species recorded in their
vineyards, so they had cameras.
So hundreds of different thingsfloating around and 12 species
of insect-eating bats yeah, cool.
And so this has all been funded.
This is part of oursustainability journey and I
just thought you know it'sreally cool.
(03:53):
Fowls is not a particularlylarge.
I mean it is for the region,yeah, they do.
Ladies who shoot their lunchyeah, but yeah, good to see
people are, you know, investingback into what hopefully will,
at the end of the day, save themmoney if they don't have to use
insecticides and can justpromote the cute little bats,
although I hate bats.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
There's a lot of really cool initiatives as part
of it.
Tom Hinton has a lot of batsyeah.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I remember back in the day working there and there
were bats everywhere at night.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
But like because we're part of the eco-vineyard
study as well, and like thestuff that they get you to do
with, like worm counts, I knowit's really cool.
I don't know if we're doing it,but one of the like things that
they're getting some of thewineries to do is put in
predator bird.
Just put in a giant pole.
That predator birds appeals tothem so they want to sit on it
(04:42):
and then if there's predatorbirds hanging around, then the
little birds won't come and eatthe.
Yeah, exactly, so you don'tneed nets.
How easy is that?
You don't need the bird.
What are the bird sprays calledHerbicides, fungicides?
Speaker 2 (04:55):
By birds.
You don't spray for birds, youuse nets or the lasers.
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, wow, yes.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Okay, okay, well, yes , okay, so don't need birds but
anyway.
But it means it's late, kind ofroughly, as being in the fog,
cloudy, so it means it ripenslater in the year when the fog
starts to come in in the autumns.
Okay, so it's a late ripeninggrape variety, relatively thin
skinned, renowned for itssearing tannins.
Classic grape descriptors orflavour descriptors are tar and
roses.
There's a lot of cherry inthere, aged traditionally in old
(05:30):
sort of 600-litre casks, butmore common now, more common
modern winemaking in classicbarrels like 300 hogsheads or
225-litre barriques.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, so what Meg just said is they used to be in
really extra big barrels, butnow they're in the normal
barrels that you would see andrecognise.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Sorry, yes, and the minimum ageing it varies across
the Piemonte.
So Barolo is obviously theabsolute apex of Nebbiolo
production.
I think it's two years in oak,and then Barbaresco is a little
bit lower, and then you've gotother regions like Lange, which
makes Nebbiolo as well.
So it is a great, great varietythat loves the cool weather,
(06:12):
generally growing in thesecooler climates, and really is
not the nicest wine when it'sfirst released as a young wine.
So in Barola, the currentrelease, I think we're on 2019.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yes, yeah, yeah okay.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So we in Australia obviously don't live by those
rules.
But I think it needs quite afew years at least three to four
to come together, even in theLange, which is another region
of Piemonte but is not asprestigious as Barolo and
doesn't have the same ageingrequirements.
It needs some time.
So I thought if we were goingto do Nebbiolo from Australia we
(06:49):
had to be looking at a climatenot dissimilar to what they were
doing.
So we didn't want to do aMcLaren Vale Nebbiolo, no.
So I've gone to.
They're both Victorian wines,so Pizzini, so it's King Valley.
So it's our cooler climateregion, which has a great
Italian heritage.
Yeah, it does, it's cool.
So the Italians were broughtout to work in the snowy
(07:11):
mountain scheme and then theymoved on to farms and they grew
tobacco and they grew hops.
It was a big hops growingregion.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
I didn't realise.
That's why it's all Italian outthere.
That's cool, it's all the hopskilns all across.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, right, yeah, that's cool, yeah, anyway,
between Myrtleford and Bright,there's all the hops, yeah,
anyway.
So, yeah, they were brought outfor the Snowy River scheme,
which, for those who don't know,was a big dam.
We brought in.
We didn't have enough people,it was post-war, so we brought
in Italians and, well, justeveryone from Europe.
(07:47):
Basically, the policy was thewhiter, the better, right, this
is how racist we were.
I'm sorry, but we've moved onfrom that.
Anyway, once they were finishedbuilding this scheme, they moved
to their farms and it is agreat region because it is very,
very, very Italian.
You know, pete and I were thereKing's birthday last year and
(08:09):
literally, pizza on the side ofthe road, these guys have got a
pizza oven on the back of atrailer.
It's so cool, and Nonno isbringing the wood over, yeah,
and they only did three types ofpizzas for like 15 bucks each.
It was just fantastic, anyway,yeah, so I have Pizzini.
It's so good.
Italian family.
Yes, la Volpe Nebbiolo, kingValley 2023.
(08:33):
So the first thing we noticeit's 13% alcohol.
Nebbiolo always has a light,pale garnet colour.
It is always on that.
It's not in that ruby, red,pink spectrum, it's always on
that more orangey, brickingterracotta spectrum.
So that's what you want fromNebbiolo Always pale in colour.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
I get more sort of cherries than rose petal with
this.
Yeah, it always just smellsbricky to me, like bricks I
can't describe.
Have you ever smelled brick?
Brick is no weirder thing tosay than like whetstone.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
I know what you mean.
It's like that drying clay,terracotta, pot sort of smell,
baked earth kind ofcharacteristics.
Yes, thank you.
Thank you, you helped me out.
Yeah, it is quite sort of redberry floral, it's like
something tomatoey.
Yeah, you're right, it's likeyou know, when you grill
(09:34):
tomatoes for the old mixed grill, no one likes a hot tomato.
I mean seriously, really.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
No, I don't hate it.
I think I'd rather it than acold one.
Yeah, I would.
I don't like love it, but if Iwas having breakfast I'd eat it.
That way I'd be less inclinedto eat it.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, that's why I don't like ham cheese tomato,
sandwiches, toasties Just don'tsee how that works.
Don't like hot tomato?
I mean, I don't mind a tintomato, but like a fresh anyway.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I digress Not much consistency to what you're
saying, but anyway, yes, tomato,okay, I love the nose.
What are you thinking?
Because I feel like maybeyou're torn or something.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I have high expectations of Nebbiolo.
I'm a bit of a traditionalistand I do think I think it should
smell like it comes from Italy.
This is more fruit-driven thansomething that I would expect
from Italy, but still has afamilial link to Nebbiolo.
And then on the palate, itdefinitely has those lovely Neb
tannins.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
That's exactly what it should be, yeah and it needs
pizza.
I'm glad it's not a carbon copy.
True, and this is the thingit's got Australian flair.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
These plants are probably really, really young.
Yep, we're still learning howto work with it.
There's no evident oak on itPrice.
I'd have to have a look.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
I think that's freaking good.
I think it's $35.
I just looked it up.
I know that we weren't going todigress and we were going to
actually try and be in time forthis one, but I have to tell you
that, pizzini, I saw an ad outthe other day.
It was Pizzini Sangiovese andthe ad read yes, your pizza is
capable.
No, yes, your bolognese iscapable of judging you.
(11:14):
Oh, I laughed.
Yeah, that is pretty cool.
On one hand, I'm like, oh, Ihate us being pretentious and
feeling like we're excludingpeople and stuff, and on the
other hand, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
It is funny and it's something that I think everyone
can relate to, because everyonehas the perfect bolognese recipe
, don't they?
Yeah, my only complaint ifyou're being a purist is that
don't grow Sangiovese in Bologna.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, I don't want to have gotten it wrong now.
Bologna is a.
It might not have beenbolognese, it might have just
been pasta.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Okay, so don't judge them too harshly.
Bologna is Lambrusco country.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Mmm, mmm, mmm.
That's freaking.
Yum.
I really like Pizzini.
Every time I taste Pizzini, I'mimpressed.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I love them because they're just quite little
achievers.
They've got like this familyheritage and they're just
getting on with it and they'renot dicking around and they're
really proud supporters of theVictorian wine industry, like
they really wave the flag forVictoria, which I think
sometimes we don't do enough ofin the Yarra, although everyone
(12:25):
seems to think that we're theposh rich cousins.
But anyway, I digress.
We now have Beechworth.
Beechworth cool climate, sortof near Rutherglen, but so it
has a very continental climate.
I have had actually boughtquite a lot of this wine before.
It's a Traviati BeechworthNebbiolo.
(12:47):
What vintage is it?
Mm-mm.
22.
And is it Mezzo, something theytend to use Mezzo Nebbiolo?
Yeah, mezzo, what's that mean?
No, they tend to use musicterms.
Oh, because I think there's anopera one as well.
From memory it's a family smallproducer.
This was from Dan Murphy's, Ithink it was about 45-ish 75?
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Really, that's what their website says.
Maybe I'll try dance and see ifit's different.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
This is my problem.
I go to the shop and I justdon't even take any notice of
the prices.
It's terrible.
I'm under.
My husband looks at the creditcard and goes what the fuck are
you mean buying?
Spent $248 on Sarkozy onSaturday.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
You've said before how that, like when you buy
something, you take like $15 offthe price or whatever.
It's so funny how ingrained itis in your mind that we
literally can see it.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But the thing is, you know I don't spend a lot on
clothes.
I do spend a bit on shoes, butI don't spend a lot on clothes.
So you know you probably spenda lot on clothes and makeup and
shit.
I just spend it on wine.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, enough, I guess .
Yeah, Is it 125?
No, I can't even find it atDan's.
It must have been.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
I'll give you the receipt.
You can put it on the thing.
Anyway, let's try it.
So it's got a nice colour.
Oh, it's a little bit more,almost.
This has got the tar, the bakedearth $45, you're right?
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Yeah, I didn't think it was that expensive $45.
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
There's some sour cherry in there as well.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Tar for sure, Tar is it On a hot day when you can
smell the road?
That's what it smells like.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Oh no, that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
But it's much more.
Black fruit it's deeper, it'sricher, it's like gruntier.
It's deeper, it's richer, it'slike gruntier.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The tannins are superb.
They're perfect.
Oh, well done.
I knew I'd bought this.
I seem to remember that Iworked with someone who was
maybe going out with thedaughter of the owner.
Anyway, that's how I wasintroduced to it first, and I
did buy some pre-COVID and I didlove it.
But this is obviously.
The vines are older.
You've just got a little bitmore complexity in the wine.
(15:04):
I think there's a subtle sortof tiny vanilla characteristic,
so I'm assuming there's a littlebit of oak in there, but
there's not a lot of new oak.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
The tannin is a lot.
Oh yeah, but great.
I would personally want to siton that for a couple of years.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Oh yeah, yeah.
This is the other thing aboutthe Viola it is it's infanticide
.
It is too young, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
But the panese Panese you can drink now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah you drink that.
Panese.
I know, I know, pizzini you candrink now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you drinkthat Pizzini.
No, I don't Thinking about thesandwich.
We're in the third podrecording today.
It's starting to get to my head.
Pizzini, yum, yum, drink now.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
This one is way more serious and I would definitely
age it and the tannins do needtime to come together.
Oh my God, that is so good $45,.
Buy a half a dozen becausethat's a lot of money.
You probably get a discount forsix.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Out of stock.
On their website it says it wasa dance.
Hopefully we can find more.
If not, maybe we'll have tosend them an email and be like
we might have some people thatwant to buy this.
Seriously, it was it my desk,just get online now?
Oh, no, here we go Nebio,annadale, salas, okay, so
there's different drop, there'sa few different places where you
(16:31):
can get it, so just shop around, just look for it, but buy
yourself half a dozen and hideit away until what's 2022,
probably about 2027, 2030.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Delicious, don't want to pull that out.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
I'm like we're excited about the Pizzini.
I don't know you what.
Maybe it's just the fact thatit's too young still, but I just
loved the Pizzini.
Maybe it's because I'm a supertester mate.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
I think for me I might be a bit of a Nebbiolo
snob, yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
So I have an expectation that the wines are
going to be quite.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
See, I'm a woman of the people.
That's true, I am Basic bitch.
In other words, no, no, nottrue.
The.
That's true, I am Basic bitch.
In other words, no, no, nottrue.
The people's princess.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Not any of this.
The other episode when I waslike I haven't had much aged
Saturday and you're all likewhat you haven't had much aged
Burgundy, and I went no, meg, Ihaven't.
I know.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I know to be fair, I haven't for.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
No, I know I know To be fair, I haven't for a while.
Yeah, if anyone wants to giveus a mage bear, give me.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Help Mel.
We'll start a GoFundMe page.
Oh my God we should.
I'm so deserving.
The next thing we have underour wonderful current, which
we've just mastered, it hasn'ttaken long Fontana, freda,
langhi.
So Langhi is a region withinPiemonte.
Aging requirements for thewines is shorter, I think it's
(18:12):
only sort of six months.
So this is a 2023 wine, somaybe a year.
I'm not really sure.
It's a DOC versus a DOCG fromBarolo and I love Langonebiolo A
.
It's affordable.
It has a violet character to it.
There's still that tar androses.
It's more of your Pizzini DrinkNow style than, oh God, throw
(18:35):
it.
You've got to age it for like400 years.
It's more of the PeepersPrincess wine, which is what you
are.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yes, okay, num, num, num.
This is what Billy does.
When she's waiting for me tocook her breakfast or something,
she stands there going num, num, num, num, num this is me as
you pour the wine.
Num, num, num, num, num.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
So bright colour, it is it is bricky and garnet Yep.
I drink a lot of Lange Nebbiolo, so for me Lange has a little
bit of the tar and roses, butthere's a real dried woody herb
character about it.
People in France, which woodyherb?
(19:20):
Okay.
So if you're talking about woHerb's oregano or oregano thyme,
rosemary, oh, which one do youget in this?
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Which one would you expect?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I guess Sort of it's like a mix of you know when you.
We have a bit of a.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
We have a temperamental microphone.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Microphone.
It's like Neumann, neumann, doyou have a herb garden?
No, okay, if you have a herbgarden, you run your hands over
the woody herbs and it's sort ofall together.
Garig is something that wewould say in France, but it's
more oregano.
Thyme, okay, not rosme.
Okay, not rosemary, okay.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, definitely.
Okay, sorry, I cut you off.
What else would you expect?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
So that's for me, sets Langier apart, so obviously
it's less ripe.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Okay, I think is what I'm kind of saying and I do, I
get that it has more of a herbalcharacter.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
So it doesn't have as much taro and roses and that
sort of sour, dry cherry thatyou get in Barolos and
Barbarescos.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
It's like potpourri, Exactly yeah it smells like
potpourri.
Perfect.
It smells really nice.
I keep not drinking it becauseI just keep smelling it.
I love wines like that.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
See that's just friendly and approachable and
just needs a good bloody Wagyusteak.
See, it doesn't have theconcentration of fruit of a
Barolo.
It's sort of the fruit reallysits in the middle of your
palate and then it's just thetannins talking.
It doesn't have that same depthof character of fruit.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
But do you not think a steak would overwhelm that?
Like that's actually not asuper powerful, intense, no, but
a Wagyu steak, which is like90% fat.
Oh, is there a difference?
I don't know my steaks, I don'teat steak, so we just bought
some Wagyu $60 a kilo oh my God,down from $109.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Wow, so, yeah, one steak is.
Is that only $40?
Yeah, yeah, this is cheap, good, isn't it?
And this is the thing aboutLungy.
Lungy is between $40 and $45.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Oh, this is good.
It's good, isn't it it is?
Oh no, I love this, Like thisis.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
So there's a great winemaker called Dave Fletcher.
He's an Australian who makesthe wines for Chirrito, which is
a producer in Barolo, but hemakes an amazing.
It's called Fletch LangeNebbiolo, If you can get it.
You can usually get it at thePrince Wine Store.
It's about $45, but most LangeNebs sit around that $45 mark.
(22:01):
They don't have as much oak,they don't have as much aging,
they don't have as muchconcentration, but I still think
for you know, entry-level at$45.
It's still pretty expensive,but entry-level Neb, yeah, it's
pretty yum.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
This in terms of like , intensity or approachability.
It sits exactly in the middleof the first two that we tasted
and, funnily enough, the pricesits exactly in the middle as
well.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
I love it, but it needs food.
I don't know.
Yeah, like I guess it does.
It's a bit raspy on the tongue,but yeah, it's got this once
again with my weird tastingnotes, but it's like rust in a
nice way.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
It tastes orange, but I really like it Like rust,
like blood kind of flavour.
No, not like blood.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Irony, no, not irony.
No, no, no, no, it doesn'ttaste like blood, I don't know.
Have you?
Yeah, I know what you mean.
No, I don't know, I get rust,but maybe it's.
No, it's just this sameterracotta thing.
Okay, it's the same brickiness,yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
So that's Lange.
That is my recommendation.
If you want to have Neb, he'sLange.
Oh, buy that $40.
This is awesome.
So what we've got now is thesame producer with Barolo.
Now, I don't think that theseare the highest top end
producers in.
You know the world of Baroloand I don't know how much the
(23:28):
Barolo cost.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
You don't know how much this Barolo cost.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, I bought it at Danmovies.
I had to pay on my credit card,so I forgot to take the gift
cards.
Oh my God, meg.
No well, I figured I'd just usethe gift cards to buy wine for
me at some point.
Yeah, yeah, fair the same withthe $149 Riesling.
I just pray that Pete doesn'tlook at the credit card.
Oh, fuck it, life's short.
(23:55):
Okay, so I have Fontana FredaBarolo 2019.
So, current release 2019.
I'm sure they have changed therules, but I'm pretty sure it's
two years minimum in oak andthen two years in bottle or
vessel, so it could be in a tankor in a bottle before you
release it.
Okay, again, two sort of typesof producers.
(24:17):
There's the modern producersthat are using more smaller
format oak and there's the olderproducers that are using the
older format.
Was it $95?
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, I'll.
Member off Full price.
It's $110.
Fucking, you basically mademoney.
Is it $95?
Yeah, on member offer Fullprice.
It's $110.
Bargain, you basically mademoney Because it was so cheap.
On the member offer.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, I did.
It's like half price.
Anyway, I'm sure it'll bedelicious.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Wine maths, yeah, yeah.
No, I'm really excited.
I haven't had Barolo in a while.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I love Barolo, me too .
Actually, we might have to makea bit of a.
All right, you can do yours,come here, friend.
So what do I expect from Barolo?
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Hang on, hang on.
Do you love Barolo so much?
You're not even going tocomment on the weight of this
bottle.
Every other bottle that existsin this podcast, you've
commented on the weight, andthis is the one that you just
like yes, naughty, fontana,freda, that should be in a
lightweight bottle.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Okay, continue.
No, I do agree.
Well, what's the?
Oh, this is a good one.
Yeah, this is punted burgundylightweight.
Look, small, punt, fancy one.
Oh, yeah, there you go, sothey've made up for it.
No, seriously, everyone shouldmove to lightweight, but God,
it's impossible to move people.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
So what would I expect from Barolo versus Lange
or Lesser Nebbiolo's grown inPiemonte?
This is going to be infanticide.
This is going to be a harddrink to drink because it's 2019
.
So the tannins are going to bereally strong.
Possibly some more new oak Idon't know this producer
particularly well so I don'tknow.
(26:02):
Based on their label, I'mthinking maybe not, Might be
older oak, Tar roses, driedroses, sour cherry.
Less of that woody herbcharacter that you get in Lange.
More of that rose petal.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
It's kind of smoky and meaty.
Oh, it is.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Dried blueberries, yeah Smoky.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
There is a bit of dried rose, but it's not Bacon.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, bacon, oh oh oh oh tar Bit of burnt rubber.
That's not a good sign.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Smells deep.
It smells deep like a well,okay.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So, to simplify, I think Barolo is more savoury
than other Nebbiolos in theregion.
Do you think that would be afair?
It's almost got a soy umamicharacter.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
It does Yep, yep, yep , yep.
It made me think of mushrooms.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Mmm, those dried ones that you get in the Asian and
then you rehydrate them yeah,yeah, yeah.
I think they're shiitake.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Shiitake Mushrooms.
Yeah, it is.
It's a lot more savoury, a lotmore deeper and again, it's
supposed to be drunk with some.
Do you know what it looks solight in the glass?
It looks so If you were to lookat that, you would think that
it's a nice bright juicy.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
But this is the thing about Nebbiolo and, to a degree
, sangiovese.
They trick you because you'reright, we expect these.
We associate theselighter-coloured wines with
softer, gentler wines and thosetannins are like just searing.
I love Nebbiolo tannins.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
They are, they're hectic.
That's, that's um, that'sreally cool, yum, okay, so is.
Do you think that nebbiolo isthe next sanjo veyzi?
Are people embracing it likethey did sanjo, and do you think
it?
(28:12):
Do you think that the styleswe're making are standing up?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I think that that Pizzini is a good entry-level
style for people to getintroduced to Nebbiolo without,
as you would put it, the hectictannins.
Yeah, I think that Traviati is.
You know, it could stand on itsown as an Italian Nebbiolo, but
it is too young.
The thing is with Nebbiolo itdoes tend to need a little bit
of time.
A Sangiovese you can kind ofrelease on the market and good
(28:45):
to go.
So do we sort of go down thatsort of wankville of you've got
to age this wine before you candrink it, which is not realistic
.
Do wineries hold it back beforethey release it or do they go
down the sort of style ofPizzini?
I think that there's room tomove on different styles with it
, and I don't think it's evergoing to be as popular as
(29:07):
Sangiovese.
Sangiovese what was that?
Did we just start hearingbagpipes or something?
I know that's mymother-in-law's phone ringing.
Oh, okay, okay.
I don't think it will be aspopular as Sanjivazi.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I agree that Pizzini couldbe, but everything else is a bit
more polarising.
Yeah, it's harder to get yourhead around.
And especially if it's the kindof thing that you have to age.
We just don't have that modelin Australia, that's right.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, so again, drink Pizzini and Lange.
That would be my kind of.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Start there, start with Pizzini, move to Lange.
If you're already familiar withNebbiolo, you can jump straight
in to the Traviati, andeveryone should drink Barolo
whenever given the chanceregardless.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
I spend far too much money on Barolo.
It's getting really, reallyexpensive now because it is
having a bit of a moment and thething is there's different.
Oh, maybe, maybe our last DanMurphy's vouchers.
We should splurge on all theseven different vineyards in the
Sarah look.
Stop and it costs a lot of money.
(30:19):
Anyway, Nebbiolo, great, greatvariety.
I don't think it's going tobecome Sangiovese, but I think
it's sort of set aside it.
And as we move into winter,this is the thing Sangiovese and
Nebbiolo are really good.
Transitional they are, yeah,Because they're not big Shiraz's
or Cabernet's.
Moving on from the summeryGrenaches, chillable reds and
(30:41):
the Pinots, they've got a bit ofsavouriness, which is what
autumn's about.
Autumn's about mushrooms andtruffles.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I love it.
All right, we'll end there.
We'll be back with you nextweek.
I don't know what we're doingyet.
I need to consult.
She's got a plan, we do?
We have a plan.
We cannot do that whatever it is, it'll be great, we promise,
and we will see you then.
Read the news.
Read the news.
Yeah, news is coming out,although we're out of all the
(31:11):
news.
Anyway, enjoy your next glassthe news.
Yeah, yep, yep, news is comingout, although we're out of all
the news.
Anyway, enjoy your nose glassof wine, I do.
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