June 6, 2025 • 37 mins
Mel tests her theory that Margaret River Chardonnay producers are abandoning their signature big, buttery style for leaner expressions through a tasting of four wines across different price points.
• Meg Brotman argues that Margaret River has traditionally delivered reliable, high-quality big Chardonnays with texture and weight
• Meg describes Margaret River Chardonnay as having a fuller style with riper fruit, moderate acidity, and more evident oak compared to cooler regions
• The $18 Aldi Blackstone Limited Release proves to be an excellent baseline, showing classic regional character with grapefruit, oatmeal notes, and creamy texture
• Leeuwin Estate Prelude Vineyards Chardonnay ($40.90) delivers a seamless, beautiful expression that supports Margaret River's traditional style
• Xanadu Chardonnay shows structural issues, with richness around the edges but lacking mid-palate depth
• Forrester Chardonnay impresses both hosts, further disproving the theory that Margaret River is abandoning its signature style
• The panel concludes that while some producers may be experimenting with leaner styles, Margaret River's distinct Chardonnay identity remains intact
Join us next week as we explore the Italian variety Barbera and whether it lives up to its trendy reputation.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hi and welcome to Mind With Megan Bell.
We're here to help you navigatethe world of wine.
I'm Meg O'Kristian, I'm amaster of wine, Meg Brotman, and
Meg has told me that I'mintroducing this episode because
, in your words, I'm theconspiracy theorist.
You are yeah, okay, so Ihaven't given enough thought,
haven't you, I know?
Yes, okay, meg thinks it's aconspiracy.
(00:34):
I will call it a hypothesis.
It's a little bit shirty aboutit.
Okay, yeah, it is.
It's more like a how dare they?
how very dare they?
It is a bit like that hey, okay.
So I think that I, no, I justlove a big Chardonnay and I love
that I could always rely on aMargaret River producer to have
(00:58):
a big, bold, buttery, deliciousChardonnay, but not one that's
like cheap oak or anything likea really good, high-quality big
Chardonnay, but not one that'slike cheap oak or anything like
a really good, high quality bigChardonnay.
And it just feels like MargaretRiver has started going down
this path, like they've becomeself-conscious about their big
Chardonnay and it's like they'retrying to become less like that
(01:21):
and they're trying to be moreacidic and less oaky, and I just
don't like that direction forthem.
I really like that.
They're one thing and myhypothesis is that they are
something different.
So Meg has bought fourChardonnays, three of the most
(01:44):
famous, and we're going to tastethem.
Yeah, and see, are they?
And I've got, would you tastethem?
And go oh, margaret River, okay, that's my question.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, fair, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, we'll let you get to all of your thoughts soon
, but first, what have you beendrinking?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So I had a 2023 Savile Estate Pinot Noir, which
I was telling you about before,from the Yarra Valley, dylan
McMahon, mm-hmm.
Pretty young winemaker.
His dad started it, mm-hmm.
Gladys Dale.
So it was Savile.
It's a really upper Yarra cooland it was just extraordinary.
(02:26):
Yeah, it is the perfect pictureof Upper Yarra Pin and Well,
with that gorgeous perfume Icould have.
It was at a tasting and Ihonestly it was sort of 11
o'clock in the morning.
I could have happily sat downthere and just told everyone to
go away.
I was just going to sit thereand drink the bottle which, you
know, at 11 o'clock in themorning, I could have happily
sat down there and just toldeveryone to go away.
I was just going to sit thereand drink the bottle which, you
know, at 11 o'clock in themorning is quite rare.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, is this current vintage?
Probably there it is.
Which one Estate?
Pinot Noir?
Yeah, this is estate, so $60.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yes, yeah, absolutely delicious, well done.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Wow, delicious, well done.
Wow, all right, all right, Ihave new owners now and I don't
know who's actually making thewine anymore but the 2021 is
really worthwhile.
It sounds like okay.
Uh, do you have a fun fact?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I do you know how wine is made in every 50 state
in america?
Yeah, in utah it's illegal toactually swallow the wine,
apparently in the tastings.
Now I don't believe, I can'tbelieve that they can even do
that.
Oh my God, I know Utah's theMormon place, yeah, mm-hmm.
(03:34):
Does that mean they can sellalcohol but you can't drink it,
or just the Mormons can't drinkit?
If I went into a winery andtasted the wine, they'd go no,
you have to spit that out.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
No, they would.
So not Surely they'd havetasting, but they'd turn a blind
eye.
Surely they'd turn a blind eye.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I don't know.
They're pretty strict, theMormons, aren't they?
About drinking and having fun.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I don't know, but I did gobble up the season of
Secret Lives of Mormon Wives andI can tell you that while most
of them are pretty strict, someof them do drink, but the ones
that don't drink?
Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,it's a reality TV show.
It is very good.
Austin is nodding.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Does someone get pregnant?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
They're all pregnant all the time.
Oh, okay, so there was drama.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
So here's what happened.
So it starts off with like onemom and chicken.
She's like we're doing TikToksand they become really big on
TikTok and they call it mom talk.
And then it comes out that allof the people in this mom talk
(04:46):
group are supposed to be theselike mormon, like really
religious, really goody people.
They're all having like littleorgy things with each other's
partners and stuff.
Right, that's what comes out.
And so then that she came outand told everyone that it was
happening and then her and herhusband got a divorce.
Oh, it's great TV.
(05:06):
Well, I don't know, they did.
So.
It seems like they're part of aMormon church, but they, like I
don't know they do they adhereto a certain point.
These people, they all look thesame.
It's really interesting.
They have a lot of babies,they're like these perfect mums,
but then all this crazy stuffgoes on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, clearly I don't know if it's true now, because
clearly the Mormon people areactually drinking.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Summer, summer.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Anyway, I just thought that was an interesting
little fun fact.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah well, so in the same way that you can take any
conversation to politics, I cantake any conversation to be
reality TV, and I actually knowwhat you're talking about,
because I haven't seen Mavs, butI've seen that one.
You've seen the reality TV show?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I've seen an episode of it and then clearly gone.
This trash is not for me.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, no, it was for me.
Duggins the Doogins.
Oh, I didn't watch that, butthat one's interesting.
They have like 10 kids.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, but there's pedophiles in there.
Yeah, it's bad, they'rehomeschooled.
Yeah, elegations of rights.
It's just really shockingactually.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Anyway, austin sits there and he's like you can see,
when he sees something thathe's like oh, this is
interesting.
I'm going to jot this down forsocial media.
He's been sitting with his pennowhere near the page, being
like what the hell are theytalking about?
Okay, let's talk about one.
(06:40):
So yeah, I don't know.
Do you have what's your take?
What do you think we're goingto get here?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I would disagree that .
Margaret River is about bigbuttery Chardonnays.
Margaret River is about afuller style with riper fruit,
more towards the melon profile.
But because of the gin-ginclone, you always, I think, have
that grapefruit yeah pithinessthat runs through margaret river
chardonnay all the time.
Yes, it is definitely a biggerbody than anything about a yarra
(07:11):
valley or a cooler climate.
Remember it's a maritime climate, so you know it's pretty warm
yeah um, the acidity is muchmore moderate than you have in
cooler climates and it does tendto have more evident oak.
It is more.
You told me you can't usevoluptuous, because you know
that's a terrible term.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I don't mind it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It is more, it's a meteor.
Yeah, and you have a theorythat they're starting to trim
some of the fat finger?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I do.
My theory is that MargaretRiver Chardonnay is now looking
too similar to Chardonnay fromthe rest of Australia.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I remember we did do a tasting online.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Cassandra Charlie.
Yes yes, and some of them, Idid agree, looking more solidy
mineral.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
yarra valley did not have that expressiveness and
just this is the exact samething that I went to wines of
california tasting recently andevery producer was falling over
themselves to tell me like, oh,this isn't what you expect from
California, this is.
You know, we don't do all that,we don't do this.
(08:27):
And they're giving me stuff andthey're like this is more
Chablis style, like that's whatwe want, and I don't know, like
I think that we can haveChardonnay that's big and
buttery and beautiful, just makeit good, you know which and
that Margaret River can do that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And I don't like this trend away from that, but my
argument would be that's astylistic choice, and you're
saying it doesn't taste likeMargaret River.
So is Margaret River just allabout winemaking?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Well, yeah, I don't know, Does it yeah, no, no, no,
because yeah, so they're warmer,so they're riper.
Grapes, inherently, are moreset up for winemaking, right,
like, yeah, they can support it.
So it's like we couldn't do itin the year.
If we wanted to make thosestyles, we couldn't, we couldn't
(09:20):
do it as successfully, but theycan.
So please do it, because I, theYarra, if we wanted to make
those styles, we couldn't do itas successfully, but they can.
So please do it because I loveit.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
All right, so we're starting with Blackstone limited
release Chardonnay from of allplaces Aldi $18.
The reason being is, when wedid our Aldi episode for the
Cozy Lives episode beforeChristmas, every time we talked
about the one we said that'sexactly what it says on the
bottle, yeah, so I thought I'dget this as your standard bearer
(09:46):
of Margaret River Chardonnay.
Now, I've actually previouslyhad this wine, so I knew what it
was like Do you agree that it's.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
It's what it says on the bottle.
This is Margaret RiverChardonnay.
Thank you, this is it.
This is your control.
This is it.
This is your control.
This is it's almost.
It's impressive that that'swhat Aldi is Like.
If you're studying Wesset, youshould just go get one of
everything from Aldi, like theyjust get.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So it's got.
There's a bit of a I see theginger Mm-hmm Sort of a ginger
spice and some grapefruitPithiness in the nose, but
there's also like a bit of anoatmeal, almost Anzac cookie
character.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, but it's smooth .
It's got this beautifulmouthfeel, this almost creamy
mouthfeel that I beg, ofChardonnay.
It is incredible I'm going togo buy a bunch of Chardonnay.
It is incredible I'm going togo buy a bunch of that for $18.
That is crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
It's just grapefruit grapefruit, grapefruit,
grapefruit, grapefruit juice.
It's beautiful with that lovelyoak sitting.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, but like when you say grapefruit, like that I
don't want people to think of,because if someone Yucky,
grapefruit, no.
When someone says grapefruit tome, I think of Savion Blanc
from New Zealand.
Oh no, no, no, this is pinkgrapefruit, but also it's big
and it's bold and it's beautiful.
With grapefruit it's balanced.
It sounds so much better.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Pumplemousse.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Pumplemousse.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Isn't that the best word ever?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, it's ridiculous Pumplemousse.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
P.
Yeah, it's ridiculousPomplenish the grapefruit,
Pomplenish and it's more.
It's not that sour grapefruit.
You know, back in the 80s, ifyou're on a diet and you jade
Fonda and you had a halfgrapefruit for breakfast, this
has got a.
It's that pink grapefruit, thepink grapefruit.
You know that mineral water.
You can buy a flavour ofmineral water.
Yeah, Like that.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It is so funny that you and I are drawn to two
different aspects of this.
We both love it, but I'm heregoing yeah, this is the oak I
want, this is the weight I want,this is the texture I want in
Chardonnay, and you're theregoing.
I love the citrus and the acid.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's like we're tasting the same thing, but two
completely different parts ofwhat's standing out to us both.
I like the oak, but I like tosee what the grape's doing in
the wine.
You know, necessarily one makea blur, whatever, but I like to
see what the fruit's doing.
I mean, the acid's really nice.
I suspect there's probably alittle bit of acid there.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, but it's not obvious.
It's lovely, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I suspect they have because I can see it.
I suspect they have.
Because I can see it, I suspectthey have because it's higher
than I would have normally.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
It's so well integrated.
That's great.
That's a good wine and I'm justlooking for like a cheese
souffle or something.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, what's a souffle?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
You know the thing that stands up, it's all egg
white and it rises up reallyhigh, oh, I would have seen
people, oh yes, egg white.
And it rises up really high, oh, I would have seen people, oh,
yes, oh, like that's a dessert,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
A cheese one if you get a chance.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh, they make it on MasterChef.
It's always like really highstakes when they make it on
MasterChef.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Reality.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
TV.
Oh, you're going to make me one.
Okay, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Again, we're progressing and talking about
food.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Great baseline this.
I would taste this and goMargaritva If you gave that to
me, blind and said what regionis this from?
I would say Margaritva.
So once again, thank you, aldi,for baselining.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So Lumen Estate 2021 Chardonnay, I bought all around
the $35 mark because that'swhere it should $35 to $40.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
No, $35 is the perfect price range, I think.
Because that's what, if I wasplaying for a Friday night or I
just wanted a nice bottle,that's what I'd buy.
Yeah, and if you wanted, toshow off.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You know the region you're not going to buy a $30.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Although.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Aldi.
So Leuven State PreludeVineyards Chardonnay 2023.
That smells so good.
Leuven State one of probablythe most famous Chardonnays.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
How do you say it?
Because there's a U in betweenthe Lee and the Wyn.
Is it Lewin Leeuwen Leeuwen.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I think it's Lewin.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
It Lewin, lewin, lewin.
I think it's Lewin, it's Lewin.
Yeah, but it's probably becauseit's in English Lewin.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Lew, lew, lewin, come here, gaffer.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
What the hell just happened.
What was that?
What did you do?
Is that your South Africanaccent?
Wow, we have been graced withsomething special.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
What was I saying?
I think the South African I'msure is it them or Voyager State
that's got the big sort ofwhite building in Margaret River
.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Voyager is a big.
It's got all the.
I don't know they're both.
No, lewin has the big whitebuilding.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yes, so it's based on like a Cape architecture in
South.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Africa.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, voyager has all thebeautiful florals.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Right, oh, we can hear little Billie, she's loving
it.
Okay, so 2023,.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Charlotte, sorry, the wines of California tasting.
Someone came up to me and waslike, oh my God, you know I
listen to the podcast.
I was like, oh hey.
And then they were like, isthis Billie?
Like she was a celebrity, likethey were so excited to meet
Billie because they've heard hervoice.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The podcast is not adorable.
It's adorable.
What's Cara's?
What did Cara have?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Cara, little boy, and name Charlie.
I don't.
Can I say that, hopefully,kidding.
Oh, are you kidding?
He's beautiful, he's a littlegorgeous little thing.
This is our problem on thepodcast, which we probably
shouldn't do.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, it was Lou in a state.
Shut up, what are you?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
doing.
I was just going to say thatthe tasting went really well.
We took our babies and it wentreally well.
I actually wasn't sure, if thewine industry, how they'd react.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You've got enough kudos between you and Karen.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, well, to be fair, yeah, well, they were all
Australian distilleries, anyway,okay, no, we digress.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Okay, so we have One of the Lewin, cullen, vass,
felix, xanadu are probably themost famous from Margaret River,
so I have suspected this willbe supporting your theory that
(16:20):
Margaret River's moving away toa leaner style, as you said.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
No, I don't know about that.
Nah.
Nah, my God, this is good.
Nah, the arrow's not makinganything like this.
Oh, my God, that's good.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I couldn't buy every Margaret River wine because the
episode would run forever.
Yeah, I know, oh, it's so goodhow much was that they're all
around $35 to $40, so it wouldrun forever.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Oh, he's so good.
How much was that?
They're all around $35 to $40.
Oh my God, you know me, yum,because I'm doing what I want.
Yeah, but in your head don'tyou downgrade what they are.
Do we need to add $20 toeverything that you sell?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
No, no, because this was specifically done with a
price point in mind when I'mbuying for myself, you know just
too bad.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
So sad, dan.
What do you think, mama?
Mama, there's like it's themouthfeel, it's the texture,
it's the weight.
That's what I want fromMargaret River.
It's the weight, this was$40.90.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So within my, that's beautiful, it is beautiful.
I don't see as much grapefruitin that, though I do see a bit
more minerality in this one.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I do too.
No, that passes the MargaretRiver check for me.
I go, margaret River check Icould.
I wouldn't definitely sayMargaret River, not as much as
the Aldi one, but I am so happyto put that in the Margaritva
category of yep, that's aMargaritva Chardonnay for me.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Well, let's next go Xanadu.
Oh, it's a feeling to wander,oh no, that's a different.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That's a good musical , xanadu.
Yeah, this was 3610.
Thank you, we have the verykind Austin Poirot for us today,
mr Sommelier.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What do we do to deserve Austin in our lives?
All right, how did we ever dothis without him?
With those stupid rings, what,what rings, and anyway, what
rings, what rings.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And anyway, Is that a do 2021?
Three, these are quite cold.
So some of them wereaccidentally in the freezer.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
At this tasting as well.
There was one place I went toand I tasted their Chardonnay
and I was like it's so cold.
And I don't know how much of awanker I will sound like if I
tell them it's too cold, youshould take it off us.
And I did.
In the end I was like I thinkyou should take this off the ice
.
They were grateful.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Coming from a woman that made us at Rob Donnell.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I made you buy a Chardonnay fridge.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So the Chardonnay was at what?
Oh it was so low.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
No.
So originally the Chardonnaywas in the same fridge as the
sparkling, which was set to likeeight degrees, and I was
serving tastes of Chardonnay ateight degrees and I was like
this can't do it.
So no, we set it to exactly 30in the Chardonnay fridge.
Anyone who has tastedChardonnay at Rob Dolan since
you can thank me for the perfecttemperature.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yes, to be fair, only the higher end labels.
So $30, well, $35 in a bar,Everything at Rob Dolan's $30 a
month, not with the Vixiesanymore, anyway.
Anyway, richer style, oak,oakier, but somehow simpler yes,
I was trying to articulate it.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's richer but it finishes kind of short.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So when you got it in your mouth, you kind of you
feel that richness and you feelthe oak.
So maybe oak is not like islean.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Thank you, but I don't think it has to be a bad
thing.
I don't think it has to be abad thing.
Leanness for me can befantastic.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, it's a little bit doughnut-y, it's sort of got
a bit of a hole in the middleof the wine.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
The acid isn't holding everything up.
For me, the lewin, the acid waslike a wall in which all the
oak was built around and therewas this beautiful structure and
it all held togetherbeautifully.
This doesn't have that wallholding it up, holding
everything together, and so itfalls a bit flat all of the
(20:32):
richness and all of the oak yeah, it's a bit, um, like a
minecraft block, so it's kind ofgot nothing in it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It it's all edge and no middle, if that makes sense.
Yeah, so when you want it inyour palate it's all around the
edges, but there's justsomething lacking in the middle
of the wine.
It's nice, it's got that sortof grapefruit character, a
little bit of creaminess, butit's $36.10.
If you've got another $4, gofor it.
That was a seamless wine.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I mean, yeah, it was nice.
I'm sorry this wasn't I don'tknow.
Just like, considering they'rein the same price range
generally, this isn't standingup to Lewin for me.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, maybe again it's that.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
But it is more grapefruit A low effect of a
really good wine.
No wait, let's stop talkingabout is it good, is it bad?
That's not the question.
Is it Margaret River?
Would you taste that in a blindtasting and say Margaret River,
maybe not, I wouldn't no.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
No, it could be anywhere.
Wine, yep, yeah, it is heldtogether by the oak.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
This one yeah.
But it kind of goes againstyour.
It does go against mycontention.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Now it has become a leaner style of wine.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Because there's oak in this, I'm losing.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
No, but the thing is is potentially the fruit has
been picked at less ripeness tomake a leaner style, but they
haven't quite got the oak regimein that, because I know when
the Yarra was switching we onlyever knew one oak hit it hard.
You know regime.
And so this is maybe theyhaven't got the oak right.
(22:27):
23 was, was 23, the really badyear in Margaret River.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I don't know.
You're looking at us.
You're the master of wine inthe room.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And it almost got decimated.
It was like one of my fun facts.
It's not really fun.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, that is not fun .
I'm just looking it up, whichyou can do Chat jippity?
Oh God, I don't know, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh, they always say excellent.
It was an excellent year in2023, according to Margaret,
with wine, but a cool yearAnyway.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Not necessarily Margaret River, but not for the
reason, but, yes, yes, not forthe reason.
It's not supporting myhypothesis or, as you would say,
it's not supporting myconspiracy theory.
Okay, chatgbt says the 2023vintage Margaret River was not
only good, it was exceptional.
Okay, winemakers and criticsalike have praised it as one of
(23:29):
the best in recent years.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So the next one we have is a 2024 Forrester
Chardonnay.
Now experience Forrester doesdo these bigger styles.
I was hoping the Xanadu wasgoing to prove your theory.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I am.
I can't tell you how happy I amthat my theory is being proved
wrong.
To be perfectly honest, we hadrecently that stuff, it was all
that.
It was everything that we didat that tasting together.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, well, I couldn't get those wines because
they're all a bit she-she andsmall producers.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
So maybe it's a small producer thing.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Maybe it is the cooler kids on the block,
Although I'm pretty sure wasn'tthere.
Um, thank you.
Wasn't there a Howard Park inthere?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
There was.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Alright, so maybe we'll do it again.
Yeah, Using the Aldi one as ourstandard beerer or the Lewin,
and do the producers that wetasted in that tasting, because
I agree with you that they wereleaner, but wasn't that all?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
about soils.
What was her name at ChardonnaySymposium?
Virginia Wilcox.
Virginia Wilcox, remember, Ispoke to her about it and she
said to me, because you'repodcasters, you're getting sent
the most recent vintage straightaway.
And she said that wine fromMargaret River needs time to
(24:58):
develop and open up in bottleand she thinks that we were
drinking them too soon and maybethat tasting.
We got sent all new vintage.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm thinking that's a little bit of hmm, no.
We've been drinking MargaretRiver Chardonnay longer than
we've been doing the podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
I do know what you mean.
I just came up with that theoryafter that specific episode.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
She gave you shit for asking some question.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
No, I just didn't want to run into her.
I was just like I asked thisquestion about oh no, she's
fantastic, I'm obsessed with her.
Are you kidding?
She's so cool.
I just couldn't believe that Iasked this question about
Marguerite of Chardonnay andthen she shows up on the bus
afterwards and I'm like I haveto sit next to this woman on my
home.
You'll be happy with that one,will I?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay, I'm sorry, mel, I picked the biggest names out
of our biggest retailer andconspiracy theories.
You should go and work for theTrump government.
They're all proven incorrect.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I have never been more happy to be wrong in my
entire life.
That is delicious and I am soglad it exists.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Okay, this was.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
What was it?
Yeah, what am I drinking?
Forrester, forrester, thesewines are fantastic.
Okay, I'm wrong.
I put up my hands.
I'm wrong.
520.
Margaret River is everything Iwant it to be, and maybe it was
just a one tasting that threw methe thing that we did was to
(26:25):
showcase, maybe, different stuff, a different style.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, okay, but it would be interesting to revisit
them, those exact wines that wetasted against we could use,
like Lewin, or even thatForrester, as you know, or even
the Aldi, as a sort of control.
Yeah, because I agree in thattasting.
(26:50):
Yes, they were Right, thank you.
And it's like I didn't then say, oh, the whole Morn for Mata
River is coming, I just went.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I guess I did.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Clearly, that's why we're sitting here.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
We're going to one year later.
Well, I just like Take hermessage.
I okay.
No, can I go a little bitdeeper?
I think that I love thatAustralia is has more diversity
than Europe.
However, I think we can learnfrom Europe and I think it's
(27:26):
really good that you know whatto expect when you get something
from each region in Europe, andI don't want us to lose that.
I love that.
If you get something from YarraValley, we've spent time, we
know what works, we know what'sgreat and you're not going to
know exactly what you're goingto get, but you know that likely
, if you get it from the YarraValley, it's not going to be too
much oak, it's going to be kindof mineral, you know, and I
(27:49):
love that.
If I feel like that, I will buysomething from Yarra Valley.
And if I feel like bigger, Idon't have to know every
freaking producer in Australiato know that I just want bigger.
So I'm going to go to MargaretRiver.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Very true to know that I just want bigger.
So I'm going to go to MargaretRiver, very true.
So yeah, burgundy, particularly, is producer-driven.
Unless you know the producer,you're spending $60, you're
getting shit.
Yeah, that said, you knowwinemakers, they've got egos.
Yeah see, I'm marketing-driven,I'm consumer brain and so
winemakers will always love toflex their muscles a little bit
(28:24):
and put their little stamp onthe wine.
That's not to say that theycan't keep the standard classic
and then have a play around.
There's no innovation.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Well, no, actually that's fair.
No, no, no, no, that's fair.
I love this actually.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So do your Coke and then do you coke zero, yeah I
like that.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Oh my god, I'm a great man and I don't drink.
Subject she she pulled coke.
I had coke zero on my fridgeand she literally just looked at
him and took it out and filledall my fridge with wine and I
was like somewhere wow, what ifI wanted my Coke Zero, cold Meg?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
She didn't bing twice , she said to me do you want a
Coke, I'm like no, I neededsomewhere to put the wine and I
think that was your Forresterwine that you just really liked
Anyway.
So yeah, take home message.
I don't think there areprobably a few producers who are
playing around with a differentstyle and you just happen to
get caught up in the tasting ofall of them.
(29:27):
I think Margaret River is stillproducing some amazing
Chardonnay from the $35 to $40.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I think that Margaret River could be the most
distinctive Chardonnay in thecountry and I just want to see
it stay that way because I loveit so much.
This comes from a place of loveLike, and I just want, wanted
to stay that way.
So, no, I'm happy.
After this tasting Question, doyou think that between every
other significant Chardonnayregion in the country you could
(29:55):
choose?
If you tasted blind and I'm notgoing to make you do it, I'm
just saying do you think thatthere is a real sense of place
when it comes to chardonnayoutside of Margrova in this
country?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I think I forget Yarra Beechworth.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, beechworth has something special.
Yeah, margs, what's Tassiedoing with chard?
Nothing distinctive.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Look, they're good.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Maybe we should do an episode on that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, didn't we do an episode on that?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Tasty Shard.
Well, maybe we should do onefrom each and taste them both
Maybe.
Adelaide Hills.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
I feel like we need to do five from each region to
get Adelaide Hills is a bittough.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, it's a bit tough.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, adelaide Hills would taste like Yar.
I'm going to jump in becausethat was a really good question.
Austin, our mate who's doingour videos, just asked a really
good question because Megmentioned the halo effect before
.
Meg, can you just re-explainwhat you mean by halo effect?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
So you all had it.
You had a really great wine andthen someone opens up some shit
and then you taste it and ittastes like even crappier than
it does.
And this happens in wine shows.
So you may have a wine that'sgoing to end up winning the wine
show, and then you taste a winethat's barely going to make a
bronze, and so you you'rejudging it.
There's a halo effect.
You were judging it almost incomparison to the wine
(31:27):
beforehand.
So what we do to reduce that is, say I've got 35 wines, we'll
get some judges on the panel tojudge 1 to 35, some to judge 35
to 1, some to judge 17 to 1, andthen 18 to 35, some to judge 35
to 18, 17 to 1, just to try andreduce that risk, because it
(31:48):
happens, we all know that itdoes, and often you see young
associate judges who haven't hada lot of experience.
They will suddenly put up thesegreat wines that we've all given
, like you know, 83 to, becausethey've obviously had a really
bad wine and then they've tastedsomething that, in comparison,
(32:11):
they think is fantastic.
So they're not able to thathalo and it goes both ways Good
and bad.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
It's good having a voice of the people here A voice
of the people A voice of thepeople.
It's like we have a littleproducer or something sitting in
the corner.
We have a common man, a man offour seasons.
All right, I feel like we'vewrapped that up pretty well,
though.
Great Chardonnay, what was yourfavourite, meg?
(32:39):
If someone's going to pick aChardonnay to have this weekend,
what should they pick and whatshould they eat with it?
That bloody Louis, oh God itwas good.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
But if your budget's tight, which at this time of the
year, heading into financialsand electricity prices and gas
prices are going through theroof and you're starting to put
your heating on, Aldi.
Yeah the Aldi, yeah, 18 bucks.
That was Lewin is just.
It's seamless, it's timeless,it's classic.
It says what is on the bottom.
Yeah, it's beautiful, it's abrilliant company.
(33:11):
So Classic, it says what is onthe bottom yeah, it's beautiful,
it's a brilliant company.
So, yeah, lewin would be mytake home for $40.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, but to be honest, any of them, they were
great.
Chardonnays Cool, happy to beproven wrong with this episode.
Next week we are doing Barbera,barbera, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Interesting.
It's not really a known greatvariety, but I've got a lot of
wines and I have absolutely noidea what they're going to be
like.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Do you know what?
I am constantly disappointed byBarbera, so I can't wait to see
the episode.
You said it was all trendy.
It is trendy, but I'mpersonally constantly.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, I kind of drink it when I can't think of
anything else to drink.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I drink it when I can't afford the fancier Italian
stuff.
If I can't afford Barolo at thetime, it's like, oh my god, do
you know what happened?
I was at an Italian restaurant,like a nice Italian restaurant,
with my friend and she was likeyou choose the wine.
I was like budget.
She goes, you just choose thewine.
I'm like okay, and there's likea nice Langina Biolo.
And she was like you choose thewine.
I was like budget.
She goes, you just choose thewine.
I'm like okay, and there's likea nice Lange Nebbiolo.
And I was like this is it?
(34:15):
This is going to be deliciouswith our wine.
She goes to me we don't haveany Lange, but we, um, I
recommend instead this Primitivo, I know, I know.
And I was like, oh, and Ididn't want to get dick and my
friend doesn't know anythingabout wine.
So she's like I don't know, sherecommended it.
(34:35):
We just do that right.
And she's looking at me and I'mabout to feel pressure.
We got this stupid primitivo.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I know, I had a similar experience.
We were at Coda last weekendand I know Gemma, who's the head
song there, and she wasn'tthere that night this guy who
was our song, who was fabulouslyentertaining.
He was a really cool dude Icannot remember josh, maybe.
Um he.
I said we had a helms reasonfrom canberra to start with and
(35:03):
then I said, well, you know whatthe menu is.
You recommend something becauseyou know it's just a dime thing
.
And he went gamay ha, and ifyou don't know, I'm not a big
fan of gamay and I that's myleast favorite grape variety.
But you know what, I'm gonna goit.
And this and bloody good, itwas fine.
(35:24):
Yeah, I picked it and it waskatrin and alex, so it's kind of
pete's step sister and theyjust recently got married, so
this was their wedding presentbecause they've and it was
Katrin and Alex, so it's kind ofPete's step-sister and they
just recently got married, sothis was their wedding present
because they've been livingtogether for years, they don't
know anything.
So we took them out for dinnertoo.
We went to Gimlet for a drink,and then we took them to Kota,
nice, nice, and we were all kindof sitting there and then he
(35:45):
came back with, oh, somethingelse.
We ended up with a barbiera,which, again for alex, who I
found out subsequently drinksfor ross and shiraz, he's
probably sitting there goingwhat is this crap that I'm
drinking?
but yeah, but pete said to medon't you ever do that again.
The pricing of the wine wascrazy.
(36:09):
It was $1,000 for the four ofit and the meal's like $100
because it's a flat.
So this guy was on the Helmsraising.
It was $1,100.
Oh my God.
And Gimlet cost us like $150.
(36:30):
Yeah, wood, nice weddingpresents.
And Ilet cost us like $150.
Yeah, wood, nice weddingpresent.
And I'm just like okay, yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But anyway, we had a fantasticmeal.
The wines were interesting andhats off to the guy and I felt
really sorry for him when hesaid, oh, gamona's went really.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, yeah, I was a bit pissy by then because I had
my gimlet and my oh Gamay andhis friend, Really.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, yeah, I was going to kiss you by then
because I had my gimlet and myoh and a glass of champagne.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
You say what you think when you're completely
sober, let alone throwing a fewglasses.
I can just imagine you givingit to this poor guy who
recommended Gamay.
He was a scared struttingay.
All right, okay, so we're done.
We'll be back next week.
We're talking about Barbera.
I know we're really like thisrecording session.
(37:21):
We're all over the place.
I don't know.
We're having a nice time.
Anyway, we'll see you next time.
Until then, enjoy your nextglass of wine.
Drink well.
Hi and welcome to Mind With Megan Bell.
We're here to help you navigatethe world of wine.
I'm Meg O'Kristian, I'm amaster of wine, Meg Brotman, and
Meg has told me that I'mintroducing this episode because
, in your words, I'm theconspiracy theorist.
You are yeah, okay, so Ihaven't given enough thought,
haven't you, I know?
Yes, okay, meg thinks it's aconspiracy.
(00:34):
I will call it a hypothesis.
It's a little bit shirty aboutit.
Okay, yeah, it is.
It's more like a how dare they?
how very dare they?
It is a bit like that hey, okay.
So I think that I, no, I justlove a big Chardonnay and I love
that I could always rely on aMargaret River producer to have
(00:58):
a big, bold, buttery, deliciousChardonnay, but not one that's
like cheap oak or anything likea really good, high-quality big
Chardonnay, but not one that'slike cheap oak or anything like
a really good, high quality bigChardonnay.
And it just feels like MargaretRiver has started going down
this path, like they've becomeself-conscious about their big
Chardonnay and it's like they'retrying to become less like that
(01:21):
and they're trying to be moreacidic and less oaky, and I just
don't like that direction forthem.
I really like that.
They're one thing and myhypothesis is that they are
something different.
So Meg has bought fourChardonnays, three of the most
(01:44):
famous, and we're going to tastethem.
Yeah, and see, are they?
And I've got, would you tastethem?
And go oh, margaret River, okay, that's my question.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Okay, fair, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, we'll let you get to all of your thoughts soon
, but first, what have you beendrinking?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So I had a 2023 Savile Estate Pinot Noir, which
I was telling you about before,from the Yarra Valley, dylan
McMahon, mm-hmm.
Pretty young winemaker.
His dad started it, mm-hmm.
Gladys Dale.
So it was Savile.
It's a really upper Yarra cooland it was just extraordinary.
(02:26):
Yeah, it is the perfect pictureof Upper Yarra Pin and Well,
with that gorgeous perfume Icould have.
It was at a tasting and Ihonestly it was sort of 11
o'clock in the morning.
I could have happily sat downthere and just told everyone to
go away.
I was just going to sit thereand drink the bottle which, you
know, at 11 o'clock in themorning, I could have happily
sat down there and just toldeveryone to go away.
I was just going to sit thereand drink the bottle which, you
know, at 11 o'clock in themorning is quite rare.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Yeah, is this current vintage?
Probably there it is.
Which one Estate?
Pinot Noir?
Yeah, this is estate, so $60.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yes, yeah, absolutely delicious, well done.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Wow, delicious, well done.
Wow, all right, all right, Ihave new owners now and I don't
know who's actually making thewine anymore but the 2021 is
really worthwhile.
It sounds like okay.
Uh, do you have a fun fact?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I do you know how wine is made in every 50 state
in america?
Yeah, in utah it's illegal toactually swallow the wine,
apparently in the tastings.
Now I don't believe, I can'tbelieve that they can even do
that.
Oh my God, I know Utah's theMormon place, yeah, mm-hmm.
(03:34):
Does that mean they can sellalcohol but you can't drink it,
or just the Mormons can't drinkit?
If I went into a winery andtasted the wine, they'd go no,
you have to spit that out.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
No, they would.
So not Surely they'd havetasting, but they'd turn a blind
eye.
Surely they'd turn a blind eye.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I don't know.
They're pretty strict, theMormons, aren't they?
About drinking and having fun.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
I don't know, but I did gobble up the season of
Secret Lives of Mormon Wives andI can tell you that while most
of them are pretty strict, someof them do drink, but the ones
that don't drink?
Secret Lives of Mormon Wives,it's a reality TV show.
It is very good.
Austin is nodding.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Does someone get pregnant?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
They're all pregnant all the time.
Oh, okay, so there was drama.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
So here's what happened.
So it starts off with like onemom and chicken.
She's like we're doing TikToksand they become really big on
TikTok and they call it mom talk.
And then it comes out that allof the people in this mom talk
(04:46):
group are supposed to be theselike mormon, like really
religious, really goody people.
They're all having like littleorgy things with each other's
partners and stuff.
Right, that's what comes out.
And so then that she came outand told everyone that it was
happening and then her and herhusband got a divorce.
Oh, it's great TV.
(05:06):
Well, I don't know, they did.
So.
It seems like they're part of aMormon church, but they, like I
don't know they do they adhereto a certain point.
These people, they all look thesame.
It's really interesting.
They have a lot of babies,they're like these perfect mums,
but then all this crazy stuffgoes on behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, clearly I don't know if it's true now, because
clearly the Mormon people areactually drinking.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Summer, summer.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Anyway, I just thought that was an interesting
little fun fact.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Yeah well, so in the same way that you can take any
conversation to politics, I cantake any conversation to be
reality TV, and I actually knowwhat you're talking about,
because I haven't seen Mavs, butI've seen that one.
You've seen the reality TV show?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I've seen an episode of it and then clearly gone.
This trash is not for me.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, no, it was for me.
Duggins the Doogins.
Oh, I didn't watch that, butthat one's interesting.
They have like 10 kids.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, but there's pedophiles in there.
Yeah, it's bad, they'rehomeschooled.
Yeah, elegations of rights.
It's just really shockingactually.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Anyway, austin sits there and he's like you can see,
when he sees something thathe's like oh, this is
interesting.
I'm going to jot this down forsocial media.
He's been sitting with his pennowhere near the page, being
like what the hell are theytalking about?
Okay, let's talk about one.
(06:40):
So yeah, I don't know.
Do you have what's your take?
What do you think we're goingto get here?
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I would disagree that .
Margaret River is about bigbuttery Chardonnays.
Margaret River is about afuller style with riper fruit,
more towards the melon profile.
But because of the gin-ginclone, you always, I think, have
that grapefruit yeah pithinessthat runs through margaret river
chardonnay all the time.
Yes, it is definitely a biggerbody than anything about a yarra
(07:11):
valley or a cooler climate.
Remember it's a maritime climate, so you know it's pretty warm
yeah um, the acidity is muchmore moderate than you have in
cooler climates and it does tendto have more evident oak.
It is more.
You told me you can't usevoluptuous, because you know
that's a terrible term.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
I don't mind it.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
It is more, it's a meteor.
Yeah, and you have a theorythat they're starting to trim
some of the fat finger?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I do.
My theory is that MargaretRiver Chardonnay is now looking
too similar to Chardonnay fromthe rest of Australia.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I remember we did do a tasting online.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Cassandra Charlie.
Yes yes, and some of them, Idid agree, looking more solidy
mineral.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
yarra valley did not have that expressiveness and
just this is the exact samething that I went to wines of
california tasting recently andevery producer was falling over
themselves to tell me like, oh,this isn't what you expect from
California, this is.
You know, we don't do all that,we don't do this.
(08:27):
And they're giving me stuff andthey're like this is more
Chablis style, like that's whatwe want, and I don't know, like
I think that we can haveChardonnay that's big and
buttery and beautiful, just makeit good, you know which and
that Margaret River can do that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And I don't like this trend away from that, but my
argument would be that's astylistic choice, and you're
saying it doesn't taste likeMargaret River.
So is Margaret River just allabout winemaking?
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Well, yeah, I don't know, Does it yeah, no, no, no,
because yeah, so they're warmer,so they're riper.
Grapes, inherently, are moreset up for winemaking, right,
like, yeah, they can support it.
So it's like we couldn't do itin the year.
If we wanted to make thosestyles, we couldn't, we couldn't
(09:20):
do it as successfully, but theycan.
So please do it, because I, theYarra, if we wanted to make
those styles, we couldn't do itas successfully, but they can.
So please do it because I loveit.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
All right, so we're starting with Blackstone limited
release Chardonnay from of allplaces Aldi $18.
The reason being is, when wedid our Aldi episode for the
Cozy Lives episode beforeChristmas, every time we talked
about the one we said that'sexactly what it says on the
bottle, yeah, so I thought I'dget this as your standard bearer
(09:46):
of Margaret River Chardonnay.
Now, I've actually previouslyhad this wine, so I knew what it
was like Do you agree that it's.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
It's what it says on the bottle.
This is Margaret RiverChardonnay.
Thank you, this is it.
This is your control.
This is it.
This is your control.
This is it's almost.
It's impressive that that'swhat Aldi is Like.
If you're studying Wesset, youshould just go get one of
everything from Aldi, like theyjust get.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
So it's got.
There's a bit of a I see theginger Mm-hmm Sort of a ginger
spice and some grapefruitPithiness in the nose, but
there's also like a bit of anoatmeal, almost Anzac cookie
character.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, but it's smooth .
It's got this beautifulmouthfeel, this almost creamy
mouthfeel that I beg, ofChardonnay.
It is incredible I'm going togo buy a bunch of Chardonnay.
It is incredible I'm going togo buy a bunch of that for $18.
That is crazy.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
It's just grapefruit grapefruit, grapefruit,
grapefruit, grapefruit juice.
It's beautiful with that lovelyoak sitting.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, but like when you say grapefruit, like that I
don't want people to think of,because if someone Yucky,
grapefruit, no.
When someone says grapefruit tome, I think of Savion Blanc
from New Zealand.
Oh no, no, no, this is pinkgrapefruit, but also it's big
and it's bold and it's beautiful.
With grapefruit it's balanced.
It sounds so much better.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Pumplemousse.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Pumplemousse.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Isn't that the best word ever?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, it's ridiculous Pumplemousse.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
P.
Yeah, it's ridiculousPomplenish the grapefruit,
Pomplenish and it's more.
It's not that sour grapefruit.
You know, back in the 80s, ifyou're on a diet and you jade
Fonda and you had a halfgrapefruit for breakfast, this
has got a.
It's that pink grapefruit, thepink grapefruit.
You know that mineral water.
You can buy a flavour ofmineral water.
Yeah, Like that.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It is so funny that you and I are drawn to two
different aspects of this.
We both love it, but I'm heregoing yeah, this is the oak I
want, this is the weight I want,this is the texture I want in
Chardonnay, and you're theregoing.
I love the citrus and the acid.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
It's like we're tasting the same thing, but two
completely different parts ofwhat's standing out to us both.
I like the oak, but I like tosee what the grape's doing in
the wine.
You know, necessarily one makea blur, whatever, but I like to
see what the fruit's doing.
I mean, the acid's really nice.
I suspect there's probably alittle bit of acid there.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, but it's not obvious.
It's lovely, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I suspect they have because I can see it.
I suspect they have.
Because I can see it, I suspectthey have because it's higher
than I would have normally.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
It's so well integrated.
That's great.
That's a good wine and I'm justlooking for like a cheese
souffle or something.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, what's a souffle?
Speaker 1 (12:37):
You know the thing that stands up, it's all egg
white and it rises up reallyhigh, oh, I would have seen
people, oh yes, egg white.
And it rises up really high, oh, I would have seen people, oh,
yes, oh, like that's a dessert,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (12:45):
A cheese one if you get a chance.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh, they make it on MasterChef.
It's always like really highstakes when they make it on
MasterChef.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Reality.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
TV.
Oh, you're going to make me one.
Okay, it's so good.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Again, we're progressing and talking about
food.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Great baseline this.
I would taste this and goMargaritva If you gave that to
me, blind and said what regionis this from?
I would say Margaritva.
So once again, thank you, aldi,for baselining.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
So Lumen Estate 2021 Chardonnay, I bought all around
the $35 mark because that'swhere it should $35 to $40.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
No, $35 is the perfect price range, I think.
Because that's what, if I wasplaying for a Friday night or I
just wanted a nice bottle,that's what I'd buy.
Yeah, and if you wanted, toshow off.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
You know the region you're not going to buy a $30.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Although.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Aldi.
So Leuven State PreludeVineyards Chardonnay 2023.
That smells so good.
Leuven State one of probablythe most famous Chardonnays.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
How do you say it?
Because there's a U in betweenthe Lee and the Wyn.
Is it Lewin Leeuwen Leeuwen.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I think it's Lewin.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
It Lewin, lewin, lewin.
I think it's Lewin, it's Lewin.
Yeah, but it's probably becauseit's in English Lewin.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Lew, lew, lewin, come here, gaffer.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
What the hell just happened.
What was that?
What did you do?
Is that your South Africanaccent?
Wow, we have been graced withsomething special.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
What was I saying?
I think the South African I'msure is it them or Voyager State
that's got the big sort ofwhite building in Margaret River
.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Voyager is a big.
It's got all the.
I don't know they're both.
No, lewin has the big whitebuilding.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yes, so it's based on like a Cape architecture in
South.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Africa.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, voyager has all thebeautiful florals.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Right, oh, we can hear little Billie, she's loving
it.
Okay, so 2023,.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Charlotte, sorry, the wines of California tasting.
Someone came up to me and waslike, oh my God, you know I
listen to the podcast.
I was like, oh hey.
And then they were like, isthis Billie?
Like she was a celebrity, likethey were so excited to meet
Billie because they've heard hervoice.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
The podcast is not adorable.
It's adorable.
What's Cara's?
What did Cara have?
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Cara, little boy, and name Charlie.
I don't.
Can I say that, hopefully,kidding.
Oh, are you kidding?
He's beautiful, he's a littlegorgeous little thing.
This is our problem on thepodcast, which we probably
shouldn't do.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Well, it was Lou in a state.
Shut up, what are you?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
doing.
I was just going to say thatthe tasting went really well.
We took our babies and it wentreally well.
I actually wasn't sure, if thewine industry, how they'd react.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
You've got enough kudos between you and Karen.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Yeah, well, to be fair, yeah, well, they were all
Australian distilleries, anyway,okay, no, we digress.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Okay, so we have One of the Lewin, cullen, vass,
felix, xanadu are probably themost famous from Margaret River,
so I have suspected this willbe supporting your theory that
(16:20):
Margaret River's moving away toa leaner style, as you said.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
No, I don't know about that.
Nah.
Nah, my God, this is good.
Nah, the arrow's not makinganything like this.
Oh, my God, that's good.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I couldn't buy every Margaret River wine because the
episode would run forever.
Yeah, I know, oh, it's so goodhow much was that they're all
around $35 to $40, so it wouldrun forever.
Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Oh, he's so good.
How much was that?
They're all around $35 to $40.
Oh my God, you know me, yum,because I'm doing what I want.
Yeah, but in your head don'tyou downgrade what they are.
Do we need to add $20 toeverything that you sell?
Speaker 2 (16:55):
No, no, because this was specifically done with a
price point in mind when I'mbuying for myself, you know just
too bad.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
So sad, dan.
What do you think, mama?
Mama, there's like it's themouthfeel, it's the texture,
it's the weight.
That's what I want fromMargaret River.
It's the weight, this was$40.90.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
So within my, that's beautiful, it is beautiful.
I don't see as much grapefruitin that, though I do see a bit
more minerality in this one.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I do too.
No, that passes the MargaretRiver check for me.
I go, margaret River check Icould.
I wouldn't definitely sayMargaret River, not as much as
the Aldi one, but I am so happyto put that in the Margaritva
category of yep, that's aMargaritva Chardonnay for me.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
Well, let's next go Xanadu.
Oh, it's a feeling to wander,oh no, that's a different.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
That's a good musical , xanadu.
Yeah, this was 3610.
Thank you, we have the verykind Austin Poirot for us today,
mr Sommelier.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
What do we do to deserve Austin in our lives?
All right, how did we ever dothis without him?
With those stupid rings, what,what rings, and anyway, what
rings, what rings.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
And anyway, Is that a do 2021?
Three, these are quite cold.
So some of them wereaccidentally in the freezer.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
At this tasting as well.
There was one place I went toand I tasted their Chardonnay
and I was like it's so cold.
And I don't know how much of awanker I will sound like if I
tell them it's too cold, youshould take it off us.
And I did.
In the end I was like I thinkyou should take this off the ice
.
They were grateful.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Coming from a woman that made us at Rob Donnell.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I made you buy a Chardonnay fridge.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
So the Chardonnay was at what?
Oh it was so low.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
No.
So originally the Chardonnaywas in the same fridge as the
sparkling, which was set to likeeight degrees, and I was
serving tastes of Chardonnay ateight degrees and I was like
this can't do it.
So no, we set it to exactly 30in the Chardonnay fridge.
Anyone who has tastedChardonnay at Rob Dolan since
you can thank me for the perfecttemperature.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yes, to be fair, only the higher end labels.
So $30, well, $35 in a bar,Everything at Rob Dolan's $30 a
month, not with the Vixiesanymore, anyway.
Anyway, richer style, oak,oakier, but somehow simpler yes,
I was trying to articulate it.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's richer but it finishes kind of short.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So when you got it in your mouth, you kind of you
feel that richness and you feelthe oak.
So maybe oak is not like islean.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Thank you, but I don't think it has to be a bad
thing.
I don't think it has to be abad thing.
Leanness for me can befantastic.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah, it's a little bit doughnut-y, it's sort of got
a bit of a hole in the middleof the wine.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
The acid isn't holding everything up.
For me, the lewin, the acid waslike a wall in which all the
oak was built around and therewas this beautiful structure and
it all held togetherbeautifully.
This doesn't have that wallholding it up, holding
everything together, and so itfalls a bit flat all of the
(20:32):
richness and all of the oak yeah, it's a bit, um, like a
minecraft block, so it's kind ofgot nothing in it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
It it's all edge and no middle, if that makes sense.
Yeah, so when you want it inyour palate it's all around the
edges, but there's justsomething lacking in the middle
of the wine.
It's nice, it's got that sortof grapefruit character, a
little bit of creaminess, butit's $36.10.
If you've got another $4, gofor it.
That was a seamless wine.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
I mean, yeah, it was nice.
I'm sorry this wasn't I don'tknow.
Just like, considering they'rein the same price range
generally, this isn't standingup to Lewin for me.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Well, maybe again it's that.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
But it is more grapefruit A low effect of a
really good wine.
No wait, let's stop talkingabout is it good, is it bad?
That's not the question.
Is it Margaret River?
Would you taste that in a blindtasting and say Margaret River,
maybe not, I wouldn't no.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
No, it could be anywhere.
Wine, yep, yeah, it is heldtogether by the oak.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
This one yeah.
But it kind of goes againstyour.
It does go against mycontention.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Now it has become a leaner style of wine.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Because there's oak in this, I'm losing.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
No, but the thing is is potentially the fruit has
been picked at less ripeness tomake a leaner style, but they
haven't quite got the oak regimein that, because I know when
the Yarra was switching we onlyever knew one oak hit it hard.
You know regime.
And so this is maybe theyhaven't got the oak right.
(22:27):
23 was, was 23, the really badyear in Margaret River.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
I don't know.
You're looking at us.
You're the master of wine inthe room.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
And it almost got decimated.
It was like one of my fun facts.
It's not really fun.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Yeah, that is not fun .
I'm just looking it up, whichyou can do Chat jippity?
Oh God, I don't know, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh, they always say excellent.
It was an excellent year in2023, according to Margaret,
with wine, but a cool yearAnyway.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Not necessarily Margaret River, but not for the
reason, but, yes, yes, not forthe reason.
It's not supporting myhypothesis or, as you would say,
it's not supporting myconspiracy theory.
Okay, chatgbt says the 2023vintage Margaret River was not
only good, it was exceptional.
Okay, winemakers and criticsalike have praised it as one of
(23:29):
the best in recent years.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
So the next one we have is a 2024 Forrester
Chardonnay.
Now experience Forrester doesdo these bigger styles.
I was hoping the Xanadu wasgoing to prove your theory.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I am.
I can't tell you how happy I amthat my theory is being proved
wrong.
To be perfectly honest, we hadrecently that stuff, it was all
that.
It was everything that we didat that tasting together.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Okay, well, I couldn't get those wines because
they're all a bit she-she andsmall producers.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
So maybe it's a small producer thing.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Maybe it is the cooler kids on the block,
Although I'm pretty sure wasn'tthere.
Um, thank you.
Wasn't there a Howard Park inthere?
Speaker 1 (24:17):
There was.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Alright, so maybe we'll do it again.
Yeah, Using the Aldi one as ourstandard beerer or the Lewin,
and do the producers that wetasted in that tasting, because
I agree with you that they wereleaner, but wasn't that all?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
about soils.
What was her name at ChardonnaySymposium?
Virginia Wilcox.
Virginia Wilcox, remember, Ispoke to her about it and she
said to me, because you'repodcasters, you're getting sent
the most recent vintage straightaway.
And she said that wine fromMargaret River needs time to
(24:58):
develop and open up in bottleand she thinks that we were
drinking them too soon and maybethat tasting.
We got sent all new vintage.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
I'm thinking that's a little bit of hmm, no.
We've been drinking MargaretRiver Chardonnay longer than
we've been doing the podcast.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, do you know what I mean?
I do know what you mean.
I just came up with that theoryafter that specific episode.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
She gave you shit for asking some question.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
No, I just didn't want to run into her.
I was just like I asked thisquestion about oh no, she's
fantastic, I'm obsessed with her.
Are you kidding?
She's so cool.
I just couldn't believe that Iasked this question about
Marguerite of Chardonnay andthen she shows up on the bus
afterwards and I'm like I haveto sit next to this woman on my
home.
You'll be happy with that one,will I?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Okay, I'm sorry, mel, I picked the biggest names out
of our biggest retailer andconspiracy theories.
You should go and work for theTrump government.
They're all proven incorrect.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
I have never been more happy to be wrong in my
entire life.
That is delicious and I am soglad it exists.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Okay, this was.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
What was it?
Yeah, what am I drinking?
Forrester, forrester, thesewines are fantastic.
Okay, I'm wrong.
I put up my hands.
I'm wrong.
520.
Margaret River is everything Iwant it to be, and maybe it was
just a one tasting that threw methe thing that we did was to
(26:25):
showcase, maybe, different stuff, a different style.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, okay, but it would be interesting to revisit
them, those exact wines that wetasted against we could use,
like Lewin, or even thatForrester, as you know, or even
the Aldi, as a sort of control.
Yeah, because I agree in thattasting.
(26:50):
Yes, they were Right, thank you.
And it's like I didn't then say, oh, the whole Morn for Mata
River is coming, I just went.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
I guess I did.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Clearly, that's why we're sitting here.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
We're going to one year later.
Well, I just like Take hermessage.
I okay.
No, can I go a little bitdeeper?
I think that I love thatAustralia is has more diversity
than Europe.
However, I think we can learnfrom Europe and I think it's
(27:26):
really good that you know whatto expect when you get something
from each region in Europe, andI don't want us to lose that.
I love that.
If you get something from YarraValley, we've spent time, we
know what works, we know what'sgreat and you're not going to
know exactly what you're goingto get, but you know that likely
, if you get it from the YarraValley, it's not going to be too
much oak, it's going to be kindof mineral, you know, and I
(27:49):
love that.
If I feel like that, I will buysomething from Yarra Valley.
And if I feel like bigger, Idon't have to know every
freaking producer in Australiato know that I just want bigger.
So I'm going to go to MargaretRiver.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Very true to know that I just want bigger.
So I'm going to go to MargaretRiver, very true.
So yeah, burgundy, particularly, is producer-driven.
Unless you know the producer,you're spending $60, you're
getting shit.
Yeah, that said, you knowwinemakers, they've got egos.
Yeah see, I'm marketing-driven,I'm consumer brain and so
winemakers will always love toflex their muscles a little bit
(28:24):
and put their little stamp onthe wine.
That's not to say that theycan't keep the standard classic
and then have a play around.
There's no innovation.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Well, no, actually that's fair.
No, no, no, no, that's fair.
I love this actually.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
So do your Coke and then do you coke zero, yeah I
like that.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Oh my god, I'm a great man and I don't drink.
Subject she she pulled coke.
I had coke zero on my fridgeand she literally just looked at
him and took it out and filledall my fridge with wine and I
was like somewhere wow, what ifI wanted my Coke Zero, cold Meg?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
She didn't bing twice , she said to me do you want a
Coke, I'm like no, I neededsomewhere to put the wine and I
think that was your Forresterwine that you just really liked
Anyway.
So yeah, take home message.
I don't think there areprobably a few producers who are
playing around with a differentstyle and you just happen to
get caught up in the tasting ofall of them.
(29:27):
I think Margaret River is stillproducing some amazing
Chardonnay from the $35 to $40.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I think that Margaret River could be the most
distinctive Chardonnay in thecountry and I just want to see
it stay that way because I loveit so much.
This comes from a place of loveLike, and I just want, wanted
to stay that way.
So, no, I'm happy.
After this tasting Question, doyou think that between every
other significant Chardonnayregion in the country you could
(29:55):
choose?
If you tasted blind and I'm notgoing to make you do it, I'm
just saying do you think thatthere is a real sense of place
when it comes to chardonnayoutside of Margrova in this
country?
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I think I forget Yarra Beechworth.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yeah, beechworth has something special.
Yeah, margs, what's Tassiedoing with chard?
Nothing distinctive.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Look, they're good.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Maybe we should do an episode on that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, didn't we do an episode on that?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
Tasty Shard.
Well, maybe we should do onefrom each and taste them both
Maybe.
Adelaide Hills.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
I feel like we need to do five from each region to
get Adelaide Hills is a bittough.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, it's a bit tough.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, adelaide Hills would taste like Yar.
I'm going to jump in becausethat was a really good question.
Austin, our mate who's doingour videos, just asked a really
good question because Megmentioned the halo effect before
.
Meg, can you just re-explainwhat you mean by halo effect?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
So you all had it.
You had a really great wine andthen someone opens up some shit
and then you taste it and ittastes like even crappier than
it does.
And this happens in wine shows.
So you may have a wine that'sgoing to end up winning the wine
show, and then you taste a winethat's barely going to make a
bronze, and so you you'rejudging it.
There's a halo effect.
You were judging it almost incomparison to the wine
(31:27):
beforehand.
So what we do to reduce that is, say I've got 35 wines, we'll
get some judges on the panel tojudge 1 to 35, some to judge 35
to 1, some to judge 17 to 1, andthen 18 to 35, some to judge 35
to 18, 17 to 1, just to try andreduce that risk, because it
(31:48):
happens, we all know that itdoes, and often you see young
associate judges who haven't hada lot of experience.
They will suddenly put up thesegreat wines that we've all given
, like you know, 83 to, becausethey've obviously had a really
bad wine and then they've tastedsomething that, in comparison,
(32:11):
they think is fantastic.
So they're not able to thathalo and it goes both ways Good
and bad.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
It's good having a voice of the people here A voice
of the people A voice of thepeople.
It's like we have a littleproducer or something sitting in
the corner.
We have a common man, a man offour seasons.
All right, I feel like we'vewrapped that up pretty well,
though.
Great Chardonnay, what was yourfavourite, meg?
(32:39):
If someone's going to pick aChardonnay to have this weekend,
what should they pick and whatshould they eat with it?
That bloody Louis, oh God itwas good.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
But if your budget's tight, which at this time of the
year, heading into financialsand electricity prices and gas
prices are going through theroof and you're starting to put
your heating on, Aldi.
Yeah the Aldi, yeah, 18 bucks.
That was Lewin is just.
It's seamless, it's timeless,it's classic.
It says what is on the bottom.
Yeah, it's beautiful, it's abrilliant company.
(33:11):
So Classic, it says what is onthe bottom yeah, it's beautiful,
it's a brilliant company.
So, yeah, lewin would be mytake home for $40.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, but to be honest, any of them, they were
great.
Chardonnays Cool, happy to beproven wrong with this episode.
Next week we are doing Barbera,barbera, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Interesting.
It's not really a known greatvariety, but I've got a lot of
wines and I have absolutely noidea what they're going to be
like.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Do you know what?
I am constantly disappointed byBarbera, so I can't wait to see
the episode.
You said it was all trendy.
It is trendy, but I'mpersonally constantly.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, I kind of drink it when I can't think of
anything else to drink.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I drink it when I can't afford the fancier Italian
stuff.
If I can't afford Barolo at thetime, it's like, oh my god, do
you know what happened?
I was at an Italian restaurant,like a nice Italian restaurant,
with my friend and she was likeyou choose the wine.
I was like budget.
She goes, you just choose thewine.
I'm like okay, and there's likea nice Langina Biolo.
And she was like you choose thewine.
I was like budget.
She goes, you just choose thewine.
I'm like okay, and there's likea nice Lange Nebbiolo.
And I was like this is it?
(34:15):
This is going to be deliciouswith our wine.
She goes to me we don't haveany Lange, but we, um, I
recommend instead this Primitivo, I know, I know.
And I was like, oh, and Ididn't want to get dick and my
friend doesn't know anythingabout wine.
So she's like I don't know, sherecommended it.
(34:35):
We just do that right.
And she's looking at me and I'mabout to feel pressure.
We got this stupid primitivo.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
I know, I had a similar experience.
We were at Coda last weekendand I know Gemma, who's the head
song there, and she wasn'tthere that night this guy who
was our song, who was fabulouslyentertaining.
He was a really cool dude Icannot remember josh, maybe.
Um he.
I said we had a helms reasonfrom canberra to start with and
(35:03):
then I said, well, you know whatthe menu is.
You recommend something becauseyou know it's just a dime thing
.
And he went gamay ha, and ifyou don't know, I'm not a big
fan of gamay and I that's myleast favorite grape variety.
But you know what, I'm gonna goit.
And this and bloody good, itwas fine.
(35:24):
Yeah, I picked it and it waskatrin and alex, so it's kind of
pete's step sister and theyjust recently got married, so
this was their wedding presentbecause they've and it was
Katrin and Alex, so it's kind ofPete's step-sister and they
just recently got married, sothis was their wedding present
because they've been livingtogether for years, they don't
know anything.
So we took them out for dinnertoo.
We went to Gimlet for a drink,and then we took them to Kota,
nice, nice, and we were all kindof sitting there and then he
(35:45):
came back with, oh, somethingelse.
We ended up with a barbiera,which, again for alex, who I
found out subsequently drinksfor ross and shiraz, he's
probably sitting there goingwhat is this crap that I'm
drinking?
but yeah, but pete said to medon't you ever do that again.
The pricing of the wine wascrazy.
(36:09):
It was $1,000 for the four ofit and the meal's like $100
because it's a flat.
So this guy was on the Helmsraising.
It was $1,100.
Oh my God.
And Gimlet cost us like $150.
(36:30):
Yeah, wood, nice weddingpresents.
And Ilet cost us like $150.
Yeah, wood, nice weddingpresent.
And I'm just like okay, yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But anyway, we had a fantasticmeal.
The wines were interesting andhats off to the guy and I felt
really sorry for him when hesaid, oh, gamona's went really.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, yeah, I was a bit pissy by then because I had
my gimlet and my oh Gamay andhis friend, Really.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, yeah, I was going to kiss you by then
because I had my gimlet and myoh and a glass of champagne.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
You say what you think when you're completely
sober, let alone throwing a fewglasses.
I can just imagine you givingit to this poor guy who
recommended Gamay.
He was a scared struttingay.
All right, okay, so we're done.
We'll be back next week.
We're talking about Barbera.
I know we're really like thisrecording session.
(37:21):
We're all over the place.
I don't know.
We're having a nice time.
Anyway, we'll see you next time.
Until then, enjoy your nextglass of wine.
Drink well.
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