February 27, 2025 • 34 mins
What Meg's drinking: 2018 Tyrrell's Semillon $35
Wines tasted:
- Terra Rossa Merlot Coonawarra 2020 $33
- Casillero Del Diablo Reserve Carmenere $26
- Earthworks Barossa Tempranillo $19
- Salterio Mencia Bierzo $17
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel.
We are here to help younavigate the world of wine.
I'm Mel Gilchrist.
I'm a master of wine at MegBrotman.
This is our third in thisseries of tasting episodes, so
we are doing how to taste andhow to tell the difference.
Basically, if you're a masterof wine, like what meg did, how
you're going to taste thedifference between stuff?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
yes, yeah, yeah.
So because a lot of you knowanyone who's done wct knows that
just that medium range, yes, alot of wines are going to come
in with medium acidity.
Yes, medium tannins, mediumalcohol, and then how the hell
do you tell them apart?
Exactly, cabernet can smelllike Merlot.
Merlot can smell like Cabernet.
(00:51):
So there are tricks.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
So we did how to taste light red wines last
season and I will link it in theshow notes so that people can,
I mean, probably start there,right, and then they're easier.
Yeah, yeah, if you really wantto get serious, I think if you
want to go out and buy thesewines and taste along with us,
(01:16):
you would probably get a lot outof it.
So how would they?
Well, they can look at the shownotes and see the wines and,
instead of listening to thepodcast immediately good, oh,
okay, you know, listen to thepodcast tomorrow, because they
can stop it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's not live, it's not live.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Meg, we're not on the radio.
Bless, we're not on thewireless.
You're so like cool and hipsometimes.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, there's definitely elements and
sometimes I think we're on theradio, okay Okay, and I listen
to.
I spend my life listening topodcasts, so I should know, you
really should know, that you canstop them and listen to them
later.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You can, they are infamously Because I do save my.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Rachel Maddow For when I'm cooking dinner.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, see, exactly, yes, okay, well, if you're still
with us and you haven't goneoff to buy these wines, we will
get there shortly.
But first, meg, what do youmean drinking?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
2018.
Tyrell's Semi-Om Yum.
As you know, tyrell's are theones that put all the bling
everywhere and Taylor's are thetwo that put bling everywhere,
and I found it, I think, in DanMurphy's, but just kind of a.
I think it was under thecurrent release, but it happened
to be, but it was the sameprice.
It was like line priced.
It was $.
The current release, but ithappened to be, but it was the
(02:24):
same price.
It was like line priced.
It was $30 or something.
Anyway, it was.
I've said this a thousand timesHunter Valley Semi-Or is just
one of the greatest drinks thathave walked this planet.
It was so Aged, specifically,if it's aged, yeah, and I can't
tell you what 18 was like.
I know it was quite a dry warm,yeah, maybe I don't know, um,
(02:48):
but it is.
It goes with everything.
It's a really good summer drink.
It's got high acidity, so itcan go.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It wasn't one of the was sorry, it wasn't one of the
main.
No vineyards, it was just likeentry entry level yeah, really
really good wine okay, I can'teven link to it.
You might have to go searchingfor it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Oh, why, what's?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well, I mean, if I say Dan Murphy's, it's all just
the HVD or the Stevens.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
No, actually, maybe it was.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
For the 2018 specifically.
Maybe it was the.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Stevens, I was going to say did it start with?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
S.
Oh yeah, Is there one with S$45.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I think it was cheaper than that, but maybe
that's through Terrell's,terrell's, terrell, terrell's,
not Terrell's.
Yeah, I know, it sounded reallyweird when I said it.
What's his name?
Pharrell Williams, terrellWilliams, terrell, yes, big.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Maybe they need to work with him.
Okay, so that one is $35 indifferent drops, so it probably
was that.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Oh yeah, that sounds about right.
Okay, it was delicious.
Get it, buy it, don't drink it,lay it down.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Oh, you mean get a current vintage and lay it down,
or?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
even get the 18 and lay it down.
It was so young.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well, so how long would you age an Hunter?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
30, 40 years.
Oh my God, this was drinking.
It was a beautiful drinkingwindow, don't get me wrong.
I like my life too much to agewine that long.
But it was the colour had.
No, you would not have known itwas six, nearly seven years old
.
Yeah, you would not have known.
It was just like it had justbeen bottled Anyway, okay,
(04:19):
beautiful Fun fact, so fun fact.
Speaking of Pharrell Williams,I was interested to read the
number of wineries that playmusic to their wine.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, no, yes.
So I knew that in this isridiculous, right.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I knew that in my husband worked in South Africa
with a winemaker and he wouldplay classical music to his
barrel, so it was just 24-7.
And then I knew in Montez, inApelta in Chile, that they had
Gregorian chants being played intheir cellar, but that kind of
connects because they are quiteCatholic.
But then in Burgundy Saint-AinéMarc Jessum and his son
(04:58):
Jean-Baptiste play classicalmusic only Mozart or Bach while
their white wine coalesces inbarrel.
In Texas, hill Country, canada,family Vineyards Brendan Canada
sings to her only Mozart orBach while their white wine
coalesces in barrel In Texas,hill Country, canada family
vineyards Brendan Canada singsto her vines the high notes of
music and wine.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Do you know what?
Singing to vines annoys me lessthan people that will only play
Mozart, Like it sounds sofreaking wanky.
You don't buy into this, do youno?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't, but I just.
Oh my God, he decides when thewines are ready by testing them
with the ding of a tuning fork.
Oh my God, far out.
Read this article.
I'm not sure where I got thisarticle from, but I just thought
.
You know, winemakers are quiteeccentric and that's just a
(05:40):
little bit of eccentricity.
But there was a woman, joBersiak.
I could never pronounce hername.
I'm sorry, jo.
I think she's now a PhD in theway music affects the way you
taste wine.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Well, yes, that's proven, because your perception
is Cross-modal, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I've seen that with music.
I've done exercises with peoplewhere they put on red glasses
versus putting on green glasses,and what colour you're
predominantly seeing will bringout different notes in the wine.
Oh, wow, so you could have.
If you had a wine and youreally wanted to bring out
certain, you know, spice orwhatever.
You should paint your tastingroom red and it will taste
(06:23):
sweeter.
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'vedone full-time workshops with
people around this.
You should paint your tastingroom red and it will taste
sweeter.
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done, I've full done workshops with
people around this, well, somaybe this does happen.
No, but that's to do withperception, not to do with.
This is to do with ageing.
This is to do with the actualwinemaking.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It would be different if they were playing different
types of music in the tastingroom while people were buying or
blending, and that probablywould change.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I'd bet money that that would change things.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Anyway, I just thought it was a cute little
concept, you know, highlightingthe eccentricity of winemakers,
yes, or the wankerism, whateveryou want to put it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Me and Dan, the winemaker at Shandong, have this
big joke at the moment becausethere was, I've read, or
something meticulous,meticulously aged wine and it's
like how do you?
He goes.
Flawed aging of the wine, hegoes.
You know it's funny.
You mention that because Iwalked past Loic the other day
(07:16):
and he was just standing theremeticulously aging all the wines
, the shit, we come up with inwine.
Yeah, that's bullshit.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, it's like you know grapes.
I'm just testing this becauseit's undercooked.
Oh okay, grapes were picked totheir optimum ripeness.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, we laughed about that one too.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's always a good one, because you know, we all,
sub-optimally, pick our grapes.
All right.
So for our medium-bodied reds,I have got Carmenere.
Yes, merlot.
She probably should have donethe Merlot first.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, we still have time.
I think that's a good ideaactually.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Sorry, we're tipping the wine out.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
We're tipping it out.
I think we should do, becausethat's a good baseline for a
medium.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
This is probably the world's most famous medium red.
Surely Baseline for a medium,this is probably the world's
most famous medium red.
Surely this is the I was goingto say.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Karen but it's not really Karen the most vanilla of
mediocre of wines.
Vanilla is a good word, butvanilla is also good because
vanilla ice cream goes witheverything and does make a lot
of things better.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Including my beautiful crepe Suzette made at
my table at Gimlet, the othernight.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Ooh, gimlet Threw that one in there.
Mm-hmm, I was just at Gimlet.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, I know it was fantastic, but I'm broke now.
Yeah, I know.
So we've got the Parker Estatefrom the Coonawarra Terra Rosa
Merlot 2021.
This is about $30.
Yeah, I didn't want to.
You know how in the past we'vedone Merlot and we've kind of
dissed it by buying cheap.
Yes, I'm so glad you got a niceone.
So I thought, even though someof the other wines that we've
(08:50):
got are a little bit cheaper, Ithought, no, I'm going to give
Merlot your best foot forward.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And Merlot deserves it truly.
It gets so much shoot Likelet's give it the best shot here
.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So one thing with medium-bodied reds is they'll
usually be medium to deep incolour.
Yep, they won't be light incolour, so the colour's going to
give you an indication.
Okay, right, then aromas havegot nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Sorry, can I just quickly jump in and ask you when
you were doing your MW and youwere doing the tasting segments,
is that how you did it in yourhead?
Would you taste it and go allright, I'll be medium reds.
Now we figure out what it willbe, or was it?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Not initially.
So some people in the MW have agrid system.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And they write it all down.
I'm not quite sure how it works.
If anyone knows how the gridsystem works, mw's write in and
let us know.
I just wrote my tasting note andthen you analyzed it and then I
would go back and drew noonfrom noon's winery.
Mclarenville said to me becauseI struggled with reds.
Yeah, he said to me, you cantaste, you're writing down the
right note, you're just makingthe wrong conclusions.
(09:59):
Interesting, so go after you'vetasted the wine, forget you've
tasted the wine, forget you'vetasted it.
I'm handing you this tastingnote.
Oh, interesting, what is thatwine?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And is that what you recommend people do?
Yes, this is how I tell all thediploma students to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So write like a lawyer, think like a detective.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
If you smell green capsicum, your brain might go oh
I know, it's Cab Franc.
And then you go down this andthen everything you taste is Cab
Franc.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Of course you force yourself to taste Cab Franc.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yes, yeah, you're subliminally.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And you are riding a Cab Franc nose.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And you retrofit it to Cab Franc.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, so we do an exercise in WCT Level 3 where we
have two Shirazas.
They it's in WCT Level 3 wherewe have two Shiraz's.
They don't know what it is.
One's from a cool climate,yarra Valley, yeringberg.
One's from a warm climate.
And then they're told this isthe same grape variety.
Taste the wines, give me a fulltasting note.
Then we want to name thevariety and what kind of climate
(10:59):
it's grown in.
People see the first wine whichis a cool climate Yeringberg,
shiraz, syrah and their mindgoes to Pinot and they write a
Pinot note, wow.
And then they say it's Pinot.
And I said, well, what is wine?
Number two, that is purple,14.5% alcohol.
(11:19):
And oh well, I thought maybethat was central Otagan.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, so this is a really good discussion to have
at the start of this, so Writeyour note Just write what you're
smelling in the glass, withoutbias, you know or conjecture.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Just write what's in the glass and then go back.
And then go back and figure outwhat it is and pretend
someone's handed you the noteand say, okay, what is it.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I love that.
That's really good advice tokick us off.
Okay, so, merlo, before we getinto what's in this glass, what
are we expecting?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So I'm expecting red fruits, red currant, maybe some
plum, maybe some raspberry,maybe some cherry, could be
thinking peanuts.
Relatively lighter in colour,it's usually medium in colour.
It's usually a sort of a rubyred Chocolate.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, I always get that like a dusty cocoa
chocolate thing.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, dustiness is another one, and the tannins are
like driving behind someone ona dusty road.
I like that.
That is a Merlot tannin, evenin its Pomerol form, which has
got Cabernet Franc in it.
It has this dusty element to it.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yep, so this has a dustiness.
It has that red fruits, it haslike plum and strawberry, and I
definitely get a dusty chocolatelike like a drinking chocolate
or something yeah, and you know,when you first snap dark
chocolate, yeah, and you knowthat feeling that dark chocolate
, high cocoa gives you about.
That's what a Merlot Tannin isalmost like yeah, it's not super
(12:57):
complex on the nose, so whatelse could this be?
Um, okay, so what else could itbe if it was?
Just the thing is it's notbright, juicy red fruit, it is a
more subdued fruit.
So I guess it could be like itcould be a pinot, but not like a
(13:18):
super perfumed Pinot, likemaybe like a cheaper Pinot.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, dry ready Pinot Sub 20 Pinot Malbec, malbec.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I expect floral from Malbec.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And I don't think the colour's deep enough for.
Malbec and the colour's notdeep enough.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's not bright and juicy enough to be gamay or
grenache.
That's a bloody delicious one.
Is that how it tastes?
Yeah, what about Tempranillo?
It could almost be aTempranillo?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, it could be.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Tempranillo yeah, yep .
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So far, that's where we're at.
Yeah, but Tempranillo for metends to have more of a purpley
colour and a bit of mulberryfruit but still, yes, and I that
Tempranillo.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I smell a more array of fruits.
I think Tempranillo is thisbeautiful grape that has the
ability to have red and blackfruits in it, whereas this is
just pretty, yeah, whereasMerlot is red fruit.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Sometimes I have had Merlots that smell like
blackcurrant.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Oh my God, that is nice, it's lovely, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, okay, but see how the tannin is.
And this is the trick, people.
Yes, don't focus on theflavours and aromas, yep, don't
focus on the structure.
Yes, merlot usually has medium,maybe medium plus acidity.
It never has high acidity.
Yeah, tannins always aroundthat medium level.
(14:43):
Everything's medium, that'sright.
Yeah, alcohol may be high, butthe tannin is just that dusty,
dusty, dusty tannin.
Once you've held that in yourmouth, I think you can eliminate
virtually everything else.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yep, yep.
So what was the other mainthing that we said?
It would be A pinot, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
The tannin isn't right for pinot.
That's just not a pinot tannin.
Even if you completely stuff itup, that is not a pinot tannin.
No, it's not a pinot tannin.
And don't forget that whenyou're in an exam situation,
it's likely that this will.
If you've got a merlot, itcould be putting you in a
particular location, or theseare all made from the same
variety from four differentregions around the world.
So you are getting some clues,say in your MW, yeah, but just
(15:27):
write your note, forget thatyou've tasted the wine, and then
go through and circle whatthings are and then say, okay,
what great varieties are likethis.
So in my MWWI would write downso, if it were, obviously
they're going Merlot, malbec,Tempranillo probably that's
where I would land, depending onwhat the question was.
Yeah, and then I would go okay,what backs up each of those?
(15:48):
You've got one where you'llhave five.
Yeah, what backs up each ofthose and what eliminates those?
And that's how you work throughit.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And I think this is a nice representation of a good
mellow.
It's bloody delicious.
You're right.
All the ones I've tasted beforehave been crap Like this one's
really nice, so that's probablymy bias.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like if it's going to be crap,so I'm not going to spend a lot
of money.
This is a premium, I mean, andKunawara always over delivers
for the price point.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, parker Estate.
I mean, you've paid you, sothat's good, that's great for
this.
Really, I reckon people wouldtaste this and enjoy it so much
that they would be surprisedthere's no, that is delicious.
It is delicious, okay.
Um, next we have merlots.
Sorry, finish.
Actually, what do you expect onthe finish?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
medium is they don't, they don't?
They very rarely go long, longmerlots yeah they sort of
finished about five or sixseconds.
Yeah, you know you taste theflavour, but still you're left
with that dusty driving down thedirty road, dusty road in your
mouth, and the tannins aren'tCabernet, which are those blocky
, chalky kind of tannins.
So now we've got the oh my God,heavyweight bottle.
(16:56):
This would have cost a fortuneto import to this country.
People.
Casillero del.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Diablo.
I should have all the people,all the wineries are sending us
wines to taste this year.
I should have put a note inbeing like just so you know, if
you send anything in a heavybottle, meg will hang shit on it
.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Okay, this is Casillero del Diablo, so
Conchitour is the biggest brandin the world.
Didn't know that?
Reserva Privada Carmenier, fromValley del Repel, so Repel is
the center.
Well, you've got Santiago here,you've got.
No one can see this, obviously.
So you've got Santiago, andthere's only really one wine
(17:33):
region north of Santiago.
There are a couple, but onemain one the central valley.
Repel Valley is the center ofthe central valley okay so it's
just at the base of the andes,so it runs from the andes to the
coast.
Okay, good for me, probably thebest country for carmine in
chile.
Yeah, okay, um 2022.
(17:56):
So usually reserva 22.
So usually reserver in chillimeans that it's been aged with
oak.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Oh okay, people can't see what you just did.
I did, she did some air quotesOak.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So it would most likely be staves.
Yes, so grown reservers inbarrel, reservers in staves, and
varietal, as they call it.
Varietal sorry, I've justpoured myself.
Yeah, so don't forget,carmenere was mistaken to be
Merlot in Chile until 1996 whena French ampelographer came
(18:33):
through and said this isCarmenere, pretty much a lost
variety from Bordeaux.
Yeah, and there's a guy inItaly, in the Veneto now, who's
trying to, because it is in theVeneto historically.
Yeah, and he's trying toresurrect the two hectares that
they had.
So Carmenier, for me, usuallyhas high alcohol, 13.5% to 14.5%
(18:57):
Yep Warm alcohol.
His roasted beetroots can havea lot of that capsicum
methoxypyrazine aroma.
Um can be blueberries, butagain, key, the tannins are much
more like shiraz tannins.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
They're not mellow so I would smell this and I would
immediately say okay, is thiscarmine cab franc or an
underripe Cab Sav?
Yep, it is that like greencapsicum.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
It is green capsicum.
It is hardcore and this is theproblem.
If it's shaded it gets thiswhat's called methoxypyrazine,
it gets this green cap smell.
But that's good, because we aredown to three great varieties
now.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yep, right, because they're only the three great
varieties that really do that,and this is because this would
be a high-volume wine.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So they're growing a lot of crop on the vines.
Yeah, so it's not ahigh-quality Carmenere,
basically.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Okay.
So that's good that we're downto three, and so I guess the the
easiest way to figure out ifyou've got an underwrite cab.
If you tasted an underwrite cab, the tannins would bite your
face off and the acid would bequite and the acid okay.
So it's pretty easy to have ataste and determine that it's
not that.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So then we're down to two yep and carmine has pretty
moderate, moderate acidity.
It loses malic acid at a greatspeed of knots during its
ripening process.
Um, they can add acid in chili,but this has got pretty
moderate acidity.
But feel how soft and gentle.
They're like bubble bath.
Oh my god they are.
They're like having bubbles inyour mouth.
Okay, and that would.
(20:36):
That is carmineer tannins.
So shiraz was the only thingthat, youannin-wise, you can
confuse it with.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Oh my God, that is so true.
They have Shiraz tannins,whereas Cab Franc is probably
closer to a carbonate tannin.
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Well, it is the parent, one of the parents.
So it is more clunkier Mm-hmm,and do we know many Cab Francs
with this amount of alcohol?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
No, no, because they're often.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Grown in a cooler climate, cooler places.
So we automatically say, okay,this is something that's warm,
it's warm alcohol.
It's got to be something thatgrows in a warm climate.
So, just on flavour, just onstructure, if we took all the
flavour out and we didn't havethat hint of methoxypyrazine,
we'd be between Shiriraz andcarmine Yep, yep, based on
tannin and alcohol.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And then, as soon as you get the herbaceous, then you
go bang, carmine, yep, awesome.
This is such a helpful episode.
I reckon people will love this.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Mind you, this is how I do it.
There are a million ways to doit, but this is the way I do it.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, well, you are one of a handful of master of
wines in australia, so I feellike you're a pretty good person
to uh take the lead off mech.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So next we have a wine that's been sent to us
earthworks tempranillo 2022,south australia.
I don't know anything about it.
Plus and juicy, with layers ofchocolate, licorice and
boysenberry, finishing withcocoa powder tannins do you find
much difference between theTempranillo grown in Australia
versus Spain?
Not much difference between theHoven of Tempranillo grown in
(22:13):
Spain.
But when you start havingReserva and Grand Reserva, I
find that they are more layeredand complex wines from Spain.
No one's really doing a Reservaor Grand Reserva equivalent out
of Australia.
Yeah, that's true, they should.
Yeah, I agree.
So first of all, colour-wise,this could be Pinot or Merlot.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
It's very light in colour.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Like it would be almost light, I reckon.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, it is.
It's quite light, I get.
I can just pick TempranilloStraight away.
I'm like bang Tempranillo, whatare your?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
what are your it's?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
a specific kind of.
It's a blueberry, I think it'sa blueberry.
I find in Tempranillo that Idon't get really anywhere else.
It's a blueberry, I think it'sa blueberry.
I find in Tempranillo that Idon't get really anywhere else,
and it is that it's like it'sthat combination of the red and
black fruit that you can get.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Mulberry.
Mulberry, that's the thingBeautiful If people haven't
smelt or tasted mulberry.
Mulberry is almost likeblueberry meets blackberry,
isn't it?
Yeah, it is, but with reallyhigh acidity, but it really high
acidity.
But it is this purple red incolor that's beautiful.
Mulberries will be coming out,or my mulberry tree's almost
ripe, yeah, so it'll be comingout probably the end of march.
(23:27):
Yep, um, get out, buy yourselfa punnet of mulberries.
They probably cost you five orsix bucks, but it's well worth
it, because once you've smelt it, it's like gooseberry.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
You've never, you never, forget it I um, I find
when I smell a wine and I likethe nose that much, it becomes
really high stakes because I'mlike I hope they can follow
through on this and it's reallydisappointing when they don't.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Okay, so we've got high alcohol in that wine.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
It's quite a.
It's like there's not a lot ofstructure or something.
It's just quite pleasantlydrinkable.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think that the descriptors of chocolate,
licorice and boysenberryfinishing with cocoa powder,
tannins, is kind of.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, it's it.
It's got a really medium kindof body, a medium finish, but
lovely it is lovely, but why isit Tempranillo?
Okay, medium across the board,I think.
So medium acid, medium tannin,medium finish, medium unaged,
(24:39):
aged it's different.
Butaged you expect mediumacross the board and I think
both kinds of red fruit andmaybe that's it for me and
tannins for me.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Tempranillo tannins are halfway between Malbec and
Merlot.
Oh my God, now you're testingme.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Malbec and Merlot.
Oh my God, Now you're testingme.
Malbec and Merlot.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Dustiness of Merlot, yeah, but more of that Pac-Man-y
grip of Malbec.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
That is next level and probably explains why you're
a muscle refiner and I'm not.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Have you ever eaten, tasted quince when it hasn't
been cooked?
No, okay.
So my mum calls them quangers.
Okay, the tannins on it arejust.
They're kind of likeTempranillo tannins.
I don't recommend people go outand do it.
Although this is quince seasonIn Chile, there's a lot of
(25:38):
quinces grown next to vineyards.
Okay, so we would often havequince fruit at the same time as
picking.
But don't eat it by itself.
It has to be cooked.
Anyway, tempranillo is a trickyone, is this?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
a good demonstration of a Tempranillo Like.
Do you think this is like?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
No, ah, it's not definitive enough.
Okay, but again, in an examsituation, you're going to be
given some clues.
Yeah, so these, are you goingto get a Tempranillo from
Australia?
Unlikely, if they're doingTempranillo, they are going
Portugal or Spain.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So it may have other Spanish grape varieties, it may
have some whites thrown in there, but sit down with Navarro, rio
, rioja, tempranillos, fromHoven right through to Grand
Reserva and see what your hooksare.
It's a tricky one I struggledwith.
(26:38):
Spanish Great varieties, for me, are the hardest because they
are really medium.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
They are yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know, and they can often masquerade as
something else because they'reall so similar, they're almost
like from the same family, buteverything's sort of related.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And age, just like if you taste a Hoven compared to a
Gromit Zerva it's not the samething, it's like a completely
different wine.
It's crazy.
I mean it is a different wine,but you know what I mean.
It's like it's not even fromthe same family.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So that's a tricky one, but my advice on those
tricky ones is get a whole heapof temps around and then get
some temps next to Merlot.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, and just get that.
I don't know.
I represented Spanish wine fora little while, so I drank a lot
of it, and I think, just whenyou get used to a particular
like that Tempranillo, to methere's something in particular
that I just tasted it and itshouted Tempranillo at me, so
maybe it's one of those onesthat you just need to drink
(27:37):
enough.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
of Memorise, memorise , memorise, memorise.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I mean, that's some good homework, right yeah.
So, now we've got Menthea.
Yeah, which was not on my bingocard for today.
It's getting bigger and bigger.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The reason I kind of chose it is because the colour
for me is very Merlot-esque,mm-hmm, but the tannins just set
it apart.
Yeah, so this is from Biezo.
This is from Celterio.
That's the winery Mencia, fromBiezo.
This is from Celterio.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
That's the winery Mencia from Biezo yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
In Spain 12.5% alcohol and it's a 2021.
This is imported by PinnacleDrinks.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So Biezo is sort of on top of Portugal in the north.
Got my geography shit, is itwest?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Northwest of.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Spain.
Yeah, it's the left-handed sideof Spain, up the top of
Portugal, so it's sort of aroundGalicia.
It gets a fair bit of rain andMinthea.
For me again, like Tempranillo,describe the characteristics of
Minthea, don't know no.
Blue and red fruits.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
My only context of the Minthea grape is I know that
it's added to Tempranillo forageability and colour.
If you're turning Tempranilloand it's going to be a grown
reserver Minthea is one of themain ones that add to it for
colour and ageability, butthat's beyond that.
(29:14):
I couldn't tell you what ittastes like.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So it is becoming trendier and that's why I got it
.
One of the reasons I got ittoday because it can appear in
MW exams and diploma exams.
I think because it's sort of abit of a trend set up.
Colour could be Merlot.
Yeah, climate exams.
I think, because it's sort of abit of a trend set up Colour
could be Merlot.
Yeah, medium ruby colour Smellsof like raspberry and
(29:44):
strawberry jam a little bit.
That's been mixed together,mm-hmm, the fruit is more
compote-y, it's more cookedfruit than fresh fruit.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, it's like a darkness.
There's not a vibrancy to it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I wouldn't say there's any blueberry or
blackberry in there.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Do you get something almost like a forest floral?
There's something green inthere definitely Something kind
of manky, but not bad manky,good manky.
I need to come up with a betterword for manky, don't I?
For me it's a little bit likeyou know, when mud becomes a bit
stinky yes, I get that all thetime and I don't mean it in a
(30:21):
bad way, I actually like it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's not a yes, bad thing, but it's got that sort of
a green.
I'm gonna say fetid, which is aterrible term, but there's an
earthy greenness about it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Dirty mud, I don't know.
Yeah, we need to come up with anicer way to say dirty mud, but
it's what I'm getting to.
But there is a hint of green.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I don't know if this is made with stems or anything,
but the thing that will give itaway it's only 12.5% alcohol.
Those tannins, it, thosetannins.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It tastes so different to how it smells.
Hmm, it's yummy, though, do youknow?
It almost tastes like aNebbiolo.
It's a little simple.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Do you get?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
that?
Yeah, it is.
Is it a little cork tainted?
Yeah, probably Just a littleyeah.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
But the tannins.
It was under cork.
We're just saying it might be alittle bit cork-tainted, so
it's probably unfair to.
We can't talk about theflavours but we can talk about
the tannin structure, which isdustier and chunkier.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I was laughing.
They were here when you saidthat.
When you said it was undercork-taint, you said that into
the microphone.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
They heard, even though you were talking to me,
but you can still see past corktaint to have a look at the
structure of the lime.
So we might try and get anotherbottle of this at another time.
I'm not 100% sure.
It's one of those cork taintswhere the fruit just seems
dulled.
It does, and, as you said, notwhat you expected.
No, not at all.
(31:52):
Yeah, but anyway, my tacomessage still serves the same.
Mencia has these dusty, grippytannins, a little bit like
Mataro Mivedra.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It's got and have, like Chinon, wine from Chinon.
So what if Merlot was a bitrougher?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
If Merlot had been kept on its skins for like six
weeks?
Yeah, okay, yeah, merlot's thelike elegant lady here.
Lady, this is the brutal Merlot.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Not supposed to say things like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Meg, yes, we're not allowed to use gender-related
terms.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Okay, yes, we're not allowed to use masculine and
feminine related terms.
No, okay, I think this has beena really good episode, like I
think, um, in terms of beingable to break down what a wine
is based off what you're tasting.
Hopefully, um, there's somediploma or west at three
students who are listening, whoare fine.
Well, actually, westesset 3don't need to decide what it is,
they just need to do a goodnote, but I don't know even.
(32:55):
It's just nice to know.
I think, as a wine, a someonewho enjoys wine, that's what got
me into wine in the first place.
Um, we went to, of course itwas.
We went to Debilge.
I know, you know, my friendsare salad or manager there now
oh my god, really tell them tosend me some stuff, so.
But I remember standing theretasting stuff and I was like I
(33:20):
just wanted to know.
All I wanted was to be like Iwant to taste a wine and know
whether it's a Riesling or aChardonnay, and that is what set
me off and I started doingcourses and stuff.
I mean, clearly I can tell youif it what we were doing and
what we're doing now, but Icouldn't back then.
No, how would you know?
Yeah, so I think it's reallyhandy to go through and do this
with all the wines.
So this was our medium reds.
(33:41):
We will get to heavy reds laterin the season, but bottom line
is it's down to structure.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's got nothing to do with flavours.
Ignore the flavours.
The flavours will give you.
Okay, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
So start with structure, decide what it could
be yeah and then come back andbring in the flavours to Support
or get rid of Okay.
But don't start with flavoursand aromas.
All right, love it.
Well, we will be back with younext week, but until then, enjoy
your next glass of wine and
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel.
We are here to help younavigate the world of wine.
I'm Mel Gilchrist.
I'm a master of wine at MegBrotman.
This is our third in thisseries of tasting episodes, so
we are doing how to taste andhow to tell the difference.
Basically, if you're a masterof wine, like what meg did, how
you're going to taste thedifference between stuff?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
yes, yeah, yeah.
So because a lot of you knowanyone who's done wct knows that
just that medium range, yes, alot of wines are going to come
in with medium acidity.
Yes, medium tannins, mediumalcohol, and then how the hell
do you tell them apart?
Exactly, cabernet can smelllike Merlot.
Merlot can smell like Cabernet.
(00:51):
So there are tricks.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
So we did how to taste light red wines last
season and I will link it in theshow notes so that people can,
I mean, probably start there,right, and then they're easier.
Yeah, yeah, if you really wantto get serious, I think if you
want to go out and buy thesewines and taste along with us,
(01:16):
you would probably get a lot outof it.
So how would they?
Well, they can look at the shownotes and see the wines and,
instead of listening to thepodcast immediately good, oh,
okay, you know, listen to thepodcast tomorrow, because they
can stop it.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
It's not live, it's not live.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Meg, we're not on the radio.
Bless, we're not on thewireless.
You're so like cool and hipsometimes.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
No, there's definitely elements and
sometimes I think we're on theradio, okay Okay, and I listen
to.
I spend my life listening topodcasts, so I should know, you
really should know, that you canstop them and listen to them
later.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
You can, they are infamously Because I do save my.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Rachel Maddow For when I'm cooking dinner.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, see, exactly, yes, okay, well, if you're still
with us and you haven't goneoff to buy these wines, we will
get there shortly.
But first, meg, what do youmean drinking?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
2018.
Tyrell's Semi-Om Yum.
As you know, tyrell's are theones that put all the bling
everywhere and Taylor's are thetwo that put bling everywhere,
and I found it, I think, in DanMurphy's, but just kind of a.
I think it was under thecurrent release, but it happened
to be, but it was the sameprice.
It was like line priced.
It was $.
The current release, but ithappened to be, but it was the
(02:24):
same price.
It was like line priced.
It was $30 or something.
Anyway, it was.
I've said this a thousand timesHunter Valley Semi-Or is just
one of the greatest drinks thathave walked this planet.
It was so Aged, specifically,if it's aged, yeah, and I can't
tell you what 18 was like.
I know it was quite a dry warm,yeah, maybe I don't know, um,
(02:48):
but it is.
It goes with everything.
It's a really good summer drink.
It's got high acidity, so itcan go.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It wasn't one of the was sorry, it wasn't one of the
main.
No vineyards, it was just likeentry entry level yeah, really
really good wine okay, I can'teven link to it.
You might have to go searchingfor it.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Oh, why, what's?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Well, I mean, if I say Dan Murphy's, it's all just
the HVD or the Stevens.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
No, actually, maybe it was.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
For the 2018 specifically.
Maybe it was the.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Stevens, I was going to say did it start with?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
S.
Oh yeah, Is there one with S$45.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
I think it was cheaper than that, but maybe
that's through Terrell's,terrell's, terrell, terrell's,
not Terrell's.
Yeah, I know, it sounded reallyweird when I said it.
What's his name?
Pharrell Williams, terrellWilliams, terrell, yes, big.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Maybe they need to work with him.
Okay, so that one is $35 indifferent drops, so it probably
was that.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Oh yeah, that sounds about right.
Okay, it was delicious.
Get it, buy it, don't drink it,lay it down.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Oh, you mean get a current vintage and lay it down,
or?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
even get the 18 and lay it down.
It was so young.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Well, so how long would you age an Hunter?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
30, 40 years.
Oh my God, this was drinking.
It was a beautiful drinkingwindow, don't get me wrong.
I like my life too much to agewine that long.
But it was the colour had.
No, you would not have known itwas six, nearly seven years old
.
Yeah, you would not have known.
It was just like it had justbeen bottled Anyway, okay,
(04:19):
beautiful Fun fact, so fun fact.
Speaking of Pharrell Williams,I was interested to read the
number of wineries that playmusic to their wine.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Oh, no, yes.
So I knew that in this isridiculous, right.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I knew that in my husband worked in South Africa
with a winemaker and he wouldplay classical music to his
barrel, so it was just 24-7.
And then I knew in Montez, inApelta in Chile, that they had
Gregorian chants being played intheir cellar, but that kind of
connects because they are quiteCatholic.
But then in Burgundy Saint-AinéMarc Jessum and his son
(04:58):
Jean-Baptiste play classicalmusic only Mozart or Bach while
their white wine coalesces inbarrel.
In Texas, hill Country, canada,family Vineyards Brendan Canada
sings to her only Mozart orBach while their white wine
coalesces in barrel In Texas,hill Country, canada family
vineyards Brendan Canada singsto her vines the high notes of
music and wine.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Do you know what?
Singing to vines annoys me lessthan people that will only play
Mozart, Like it sounds sofreaking wanky.
You don't buy into this, do youno?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't, but I just.
Oh my God, he decides when thewines are ready by testing them
with the ding of a tuning fork.
Oh my God, far out.
Read this article.
I'm not sure where I got thisarticle from, but I just thought
.
You know, winemakers are quiteeccentric and that's just a
(05:40):
little bit of eccentricity.
But there was a woman, joBersiak.
I could never pronounce hername.
I'm sorry, jo.
I think she's now a PhD in theway music affects the way you
taste wine.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Well, yes, that's proven, because your perception
is Cross-modal, exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I've seen that with music.
I've done exercises with peoplewhere they put on red glasses
versus putting on green glasses,and what colour you're
predominantly seeing will bringout different notes in the wine.
Oh, wow, so you could have.
If you had a wine and youreally wanted to bring out
certain, you know, spice orwhatever.
You should paint your tastingroom red and it will taste
(06:23):
sweeter.
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'vedone full-time workshops with
people around this.
You should paint your tastingroom red and it will taste
sweeter.
Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done, I've full done workshops with
people around this, well, somaybe this does happen.
No, but that's to do withperception, not to do with.
This is to do with ageing.
This is to do with the actualwinemaking.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It would be different if they were playing different
types of music in the tastingroom while people were buying or
blending, and that probablywould change.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I'd bet money that that would change things.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Anyway, I just thought it was a cute little
concept, you know, highlightingthe eccentricity of winemakers,
yes, or the wankerism, whateveryou want to put it.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Me and Dan, the winemaker at Shandong, have this
big joke at the moment becausethere was, I've read, or
something meticulous,meticulously aged wine and it's
like how do you?
He goes.
Flawed aging of the wine, hegoes.
You know it's funny.
You mention that because Iwalked past Loic the other day
(07:16):
and he was just standing theremeticulously aging all the wines
, the shit, we come up with inwine.
Yeah, that's bullshit.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Well, it's like you know grapes.
I'm just testing this becauseit's undercooked.
Oh okay, grapes were picked totheir optimum ripeness.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, we laughed about that one too.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
That's always a good one, because you know, we all,
sub-optimally, pick our grapes.
All right.
So for our medium-bodied reds,I have got Carmenere.
Yes, merlot.
She probably should have donethe Merlot first.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, we still have time.
I think that's a good ideaactually.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Sorry, we're tipping the wine out.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
We're tipping it out.
I think we should do, becausethat's a good baseline for a
medium.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
This is probably the world's most famous medium red.
Surely Baseline for a medium,this is probably the world's
most famous medium red.
Surely this is the I was goingto say.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Karen but it's not really Karen the most vanilla of
mediocre of wines.
Vanilla is a good word, butvanilla is also good because
vanilla ice cream goes witheverything and does make a lot
of things better.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Including my beautiful crepe Suzette made at
my table at Gimlet, the othernight.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Ooh, gimlet Threw that one in there.
Mm-hmm, I was just at Gimlet.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, I know it was fantastic, but I'm broke now.
Yeah, I know.
So we've got the Parker Estatefrom the Coonawarra Terra Rosa
Merlot 2021.
This is about $30.
Yeah, I didn't want to.
You know how in the past we'vedone Merlot and we've kind of
dissed it by buying cheap.
Yes, I'm so glad you got a niceone.
So I thought, even though someof the other wines that we've
(08:50):
got are a little bit cheaper, Ithought, no, I'm going to give
Merlot your best foot forward.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And Merlot deserves it truly.
It gets so much shoot Likelet's give it the best shot here
.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So one thing with medium-bodied reds is they'll
usually be medium to deep incolour.
Yep, they won't be light incolour, so the colour's going to
give you an indication.
Okay, right, then aromas havegot nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Sorry, can I just quickly jump in and ask you when
you were doing your MW and youwere doing the tasting segments,
is that how you did it in yourhead?
Would you taste it and go allright, I'll be medium reds.
Now we figure out what it willbe, or was it?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Not initially.
So some people in the MW have agrid system.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
And they write it all down.
I'm not quite sure how it works.
If anyone knows how the gridsystem works, mw's write in and
let us know.
I just wrote my tasting note andthen you analyzed it and then I
would go back and drew noonfrom noon's winery.
Mclarenville said to me becauseI struggled with reds.
Yeah, he said to me, you cantaste, you're writing down the
right note, you're just makingthe wrong conclusions.
(09:59):
Interesting, so go after you'vetasted the wine, forget you've
tasted the wine, forget you'vetasted it.
I'm handing you this tastingnote.
Oh, interesting, what is thatwine?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
And is that what you recommend people do?
Yes, this is how I tell all thediploma students to do it.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
So write like a lawyer, think like a detective.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
If you smell green capsicum, your brain might go oh
I know, it's Cab Franc.
And then you go down this andthen everything you taste is Cab
Franc.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Of course you force yourself to taste Cab Franc.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yes, yeah, you're subliminally.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And you are riding a Cab Franc nose.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
And you retrofit it to Cab Franc.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, so we do an exercise in WCT Level 3 where we
have two Shirazas.
They it's in WCT Level 3 wherewe have two Shiraz's.
They don't know what it is.
One's from a cool climate,yarra Valley, yeringberg.
One's from a warm climate.
And then they're told this isthe same grape variety.
Taste the wines, give me a fulltasting note.
Then we want to name thevariety and what kind of climate
(10:59):
it's grown in.
People see the first wine whichis a cool climate Yeringberg,
shiraz, syrah and their mindgoes to Pinot and they write a
Pinot note, wow.
And then they say it's Pinot.
And I said, well, what is wine?
Number two, that is purple,14.5% alcohol.
(11:19):
And oh well, I thought maybethat was central Otagan.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Okay, so this is a really good discussion to have
at the start of this, so Writeyour note Just write what you're
smelling in the glass, withoutbias, you know or conjecture.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Just write what's in the glass and then go back.
And then go back and figure outwhat it is and pretend
someone's handed you the noteand say, okay, what is it.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I love that.
That's really good advice tokick us off.
Okay, so, merlo, before we getinto what's in this glass, what
are we expecting?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
So I'm expecting red fruits, red currant, maybe some
plum, maybe some raspberry,maybe some cherry, could be
thinking peanuts.
Relatively lighter in colour,it's usually medium in colour.
It's usually a sort of a rubyred Chocolate.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, I always get that like a dusty cocoa
chocolate thing.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, dustiness is another one, and the tannins are
like driving behind someone ona dusty road.
I like that.
That is a Merlot tannin, evenin its Pomerol form, which has
got Cabernet Franc in it.
It has this dusty element to it.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yep, so this has a dustiness.
It has that red fruits, it haslike plum and strawberry, and I
definitely get a dusty chocolatelike like a drinking chocolate
or something yeah, and you know,when you first snap dark
chocolate, yeah, and you knowthat feeling that dark chocolate
, high cocoa gives you about.
That's what a Merlot Tannin isalmost like yeah, it's not super
(12:57):
complex on the nose, so whatelse could this be?
Um, okay, so what else could itbe if it was?
Just the thing is it's notbright, juicy red fruit, it is a
more subdued fruit.
So I guess it could be like itcould be a pinot, but not like a
(13:18):
super perfumed Pinot, likemaybe like a cheaper Pinot.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Yeah, dry ready Pinot Sub 20 Pinot Malbec, malbec.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
I expect floral from Malbec.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
And I don't think the colour's deep enough for.
Malbec and the colour's notdeep enough.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's not bright and juicy enough to be gamay or
grenache.
That's a bloody delicious one.
Is that how it tastes?
Yeah, what about Tempranillo?
It could almost be aTempranillo?
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, it could be.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Tempranillo yeah, yep .
Speaker 2 (13:47):
So far, that's where we're at.
Yeah, but Tempranillo for metends to have more of a purpley
colour and a bit of mulberryfruit but still, yes, and I that
Tempranillo.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I smell a more array of fruits.
I think Tempranillo is thisbeautiful grape that has the
ability to have red and blackfruits in it, whereas this is
just pretty, yeah, whereasMerlot is red fruit.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Sometimes I have had Merlots that smell like
blackcurrant.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Oh my God, that is nice, it's lovely, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, okay, but see how the tannin is.
And this is the trick, people.
Yes, don't focus on theflavours and aromas, yep, don't
focus on the structure.
Yes, merlot usually has medium,maybe medium plus acidity.
It never has high acidity.
Yeah, tannins always aroundthat medium level.
(14:43):
Everything's medium, that'sright.
Yeah, alcohol may be high, butthe tannin is just that dusty,
dusty, dusty tannin.
Once you've held that in yourmouth, I think you can eliminate
virtually everything else.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yep, yep.
So what was the other mainthing that we said?
It would be A pinot, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
The tannin isn't right for pinot.
That's just not a pinot tannin.
Even if you completely stuff itup, that is not a pinot tannin.
No, it's not a pinot tannin.
And don't forget that whenyou're in an exam situation,
it's likely that this will.
If you've got a merlot, itcould be putting you in a
particular location, or theseare all made from the same
variety from four differentregions around the world.
So you are getting some clues,say in your MW, yeah, but just
(15:27):
write your note, forget thatyou've tasted the wine, and then
go through and circle whatthings are and then say, okay,
what great varieties are likethis.
So in my MWWI would write downso, if it were, obviously
they're going Merlot, malbec,Tempranillo probably that's
where I would land, depending onwhat the question was.
Yeah, and then I would go okay,what backs up each of those?
(15:48):
You've got one where you'llhave five.
Yeah, what backs up each ofthose and what eliminates those?
And that's how you work throughit.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And I think this is a nice representation of a good
mellow.
It's bloody delicious.
You're right.
All the ones I've tasted beforehave been crap Like this one's
really nice, so that's probablymy bias.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
Like if it's going to be crap,so I'm not going to spend a lot
of money.
This is a premium, I mean, andKunawara always over delivers
for the price point.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Yeah, parker Estate.
I mean, you've paid you, sothat's good, that's great for
this.
Really, I reckon people wouldtaste this and enjoy it so much
that they would be surprisedthere's no, that is delicious.
It is delicious, okay.
Um, next we have merlots.
Sorry, finish.
Actually, what do you expect onthe finish?
Speaker 2 (16:33):
medium is they don't, they don't?
They very rarely go long, longmerlots yeah they sort of
finished about five or sixseconds.
Yeah, you know you taste theflavour, but still you're left
with that dusty driving down thedirty road, dusty road in your
mouth, and the tannins aren'tCabernet, which are those blocky
, chalky kind of tannins.
So now we've got the oh my God,heavyweight bottle.
(16:56):
This would have cost a fortuneto import to this country.
People.
Casillero del.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Diablo.
I should have all the people,all the wineries are sending us
wines to taste this year.
I should have put a note inbeing like just so you know, if
you send anything in a heavybottle, meg will hang shit on it
.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Okay, this is Casillero del Diablo, so
Conchitour is the biggest brandin the world.
Didn't know that?
Reserva Privada Carmenier, fromValley del Repel, so Repel is
the center.
Well, you've got Santiago here,you've got.
No one can see this, obviously.
So you've got Santiago, andthere's only really one wine
(17:33):
region north of Santiago.
There are a couple, but onemain one the central valley.
Repel Valley is the center ofthe central valley okay so it's
just at the base of the andes,so it runs from the andes to the
coast.
Okay, good for me, probably thebest country for carmine in
chile.
Yeah, okay, um 2022.
(17:56):
So usually reserva 22.
So usually reserver in chillimeans that it's been aged with
oak.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Oh okay, people can't see what you just did.
I did, she did some air quotesOak.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
So it would most likely be staves.
Yes, so grown reservers inbarrel, reservers in staves, and
varietal, as they call it.
Varietal sorry, I've justpoured myself.
Yeah, so don't forget,carmenere was mistaken to be
Merlot in Chile until 1996 whena French ampelographer came
(18:33):
through and said this isCarmenere, pretty much a lost
variety from Bordeaux.
Yeah, and there's a guy inItaly, in the Veneto now, who's
trying to, because it is in theVeneto historically.
Yeah, and he's trying toresurrect the two hectares that
they had.
So Carmenier, for me, usuallyhas high alcohol, 13.5% to 14.5%
(18:57):
Yep Warm alcohol.
His roasted beetroots can havea lot of that capsicum
methoxypyrazine aroma.
Um can be blueberries, butagain, key, the tannins are much
more like shiraz tannins.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
They're not mellow so I would smell this and I would
immediately say okay, is thiscarmine cab franc or an
underripe Cab Sav?
Yep, it is that like greencapsicum.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
It is green capsicum.
It is hardcore and this is theproblem.
If it's shaded it gets thiswhat's called methoxypyrazine,
it gets this green cap smell.
But that's good, because we aredown to three great varieties
now.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yep, right, because they're only the three great
varieties that really do that,and this is because this would
be a high-volume wine.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
So they're growing a lot of crop on the vines.
Yeah, so it's not ahigh-quality Carmenere,
basically.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
Okay.
So that's good that we're downto three, and so I guess the the
easiest way to figure out ifyou've got an underwrite cab.
If you tasted an underwrite cab, the tannins would bite your
face off and the acid would bequite and the acid okay.
So it's pretty easy to have ataste and determine that it's
not that.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So then we're down to two yep and carmine has pretty
moderate, moderate acidity.
It loses malic acid at a greatspeed of knots during its
ripening process.
Um, they can add acid in chili,but this has got pretty
moderate acidity.
But feel how soft and gentle.
They're like bubble bath.
Oh my god they are.
They're like having bubbles inyour mouth.
Okay, and that would.
(20:36):
That is carmineer tannins.
So shiraz was the only thingthat, youannin-wise, you can
confuse it with.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Oh my God, that is so true.
They have Shiraz tannins,whereas Cab Franc is probably
closer to a carbonate tannin.
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Well, it is the parent, one of the parents.
So it is more clunkier Mm-hmm,and do we know many Cab Francs
with this amount of alcohol?
Speaker 1 (21:00):
No, no, because they're often.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Grown in a cooler climate, cooler places.
So we automatically say, okay,this is something that's warm,
it's warm alcohol.
It's got to be something thatgrows in a warm climate.
So, just on flavour, just onstructure, if we took all the
flavour out and we didn't havethat hint of methoxypyrazine,
we'd be between Shiriraz andcarmine Yep, yep, based on
tannin and alcohol.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
And then, as soon as you get the herbaceous, then you
go bang, carmine, yep, awesome.
This is such a helpful episode.
I reckon people will love this.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Mind you, this is how I do it.
There are a million ways to doit, but this is the way I do it.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Yeah, well, you are one of a handful of master of
wines in australia, so I feellike you're a pretty good person
to uh take the lead off mech.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So next we have a wine that's been sent to us
earthworks tempranillo 2022,south australia.
I don't know anything about it.
Plus and juicy, with layers ofchocolate, licorice and
boysenberry, finishing withcocoa powder tannins do you find
much difference between theTempranillo grown in Australia
versus Spain?
Not much difference between theHoven of Tempranillo grown in
(22:13):
Spain.
But when you start havingReserva and Grand Reserva, I
find that they are more layeredand complex wines from Spain.
No one's really doing a Reservaor Grand Reserva equivalent out
of Australia.
Yeah, that's true, they should.
Yeah, I agree.
So first of all, colour-wise,this could be Pinot or Merlot.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
It's very light in colour.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Like it would be almost light, I reckon.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Yeah, it is.
It's quite light, I get.
I can just pick TempranilloStraight away.
I'm like bang Tempranillo, whatare your?
Speaker 2 (22:54):
what are your it's?
Speaker 1 (22:54):
a specific kind of.
It's a blueberry, I think it'sa blueberry.
I find in Tempranillo that Idon't get really anywhere else.
It's a blueberry, I think it'sa blueberry.
I find in Tempranillo that Idon't get really anywhere else,
and it is that it's like it'sthat combination of the red and
black fruit that you can get.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Mulberry.
Mulberry, that's the thingBeautiful If people haven't
smelt or tasted mulberry.
Mulberry is almost likeblueberry meets blackberry,
isn't it?
Yeah, it is, but with reallyhigh acidity, but it really high
acidity.
But it is this purple red incolor that's beautiful.
Mulberries will be coming out,or my mulberry tree's almost
ripe, yeah, so it'll be comingout probably the end of march.
(23:27):
Yep, um, get out, buy yourselfa punnet of mulberries.
They probably cost you five orsix bucks, but it's well worth
it, because once you've smelt it, it's like gooseberry.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
You've never, you never, forget it I um, I find
when I smell a wine and I likethe nose that much, it becomes
really high stakes because I'mlike I hope they can follow
through on this and it's reallydisappointing when they don't.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Okay, so we've got high alcohol in that wine.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
It's quite a.
It's like there's not a lot ofstructure or something.
It's just quite pleasantlydrinkable.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
I think that the descriptors of chocolate,
licorice and boysenberryfinishing with cocoa powder,
tannins, is kind of.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, it's it.
It's got a really medium kindof body, a medium finish, but
lovely it is lovely, but why isit Tempranillo?
Okay, medium across the board,I think.
So medium acid, medium tannin,medium finish, medium unaged,
(24:39):
aged it's different.
Butaged you expect mediumacross the board and I think
both kinds of red fruit andmaybe that's it for me and
tannins for me.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Tempranillo tannins are halfway between Malbec and
Merlot.
Oh my God, now you're testingme.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
Malbec and Merlot.
Oh my God, Now you're testingme.
Malbec and Merlot.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Dustiness of Merlot, yeah, but more of that Pac-Man-y
grip of Malbec.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
That is next level and probably explains why you're
a muscle refiner and I'm not.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Have you ever eaten, tasted quince when it hasn't
been cooked?
No, okay.
So my mum calls them quangers.
Okay, the tannins on it arejust.
They're kind of likeTempranillo tannins.
I don't recommend people go outand do it.
Although this is quince seasonIn Chile, there's a lot of
(25:38):
quinces grown next to vineyards.
Okay, so we would often havequince fruit at the same time as
picking.
But don't eat it by itself.
It has to be cooked.
Anyway, tempranillo is a trickyone, is this?
Speaker 1 (25:51):
a good demonstration of a Tempranillo Like.
Do you think this is like?
Speaker 2 (25:57):
No, ah, it's not definitive enough.
Okay, but again, in an examsituation, you're going to be
given some clues.
Yeah, so these, are you goingto get a Tempranillo from
Australia?
Unlikely, if they're doingTempranillo, they are going
Portugal or Spain.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
So it may have other Spanish grape varieties, it may
have some whites thrown in there, but sit down with Navarro, rio
, rioja, tempranillos, fromHoven right through to Grand
Reserva and see what your hooksare.
It's a tricky one I struggledwith.
(26:38):
Spanish Great varieties, for me, are the hardest because they
are really medium.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
They are yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
You know, and they can often masquerade as
something else because they'reall so similar, they're almost
like from the same family, buteverything's sort of related.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And age, just like if you taste a Hoven compared to a
Gromit Zerva it's not the samething, it's like a completely
different wine.
It's crazy.
I mean it is a different wine,but you know what I mean.
It's like it's not even fromthe same family.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
So that's a tricky one, but my advice on those
tricky ones is get a whole heapof temps around and then get
some temps next to Merlot.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yes, and just get that.
I don't know.
I represented Spanish wine fora little while, so I drank a lot
of it, and I think, just whenyou get used to a particular
like that Tempranillo, to methere's something in particular
that I just tasted it and itshouted Tempranillo at me, so
maybe it's one of those onesthat you just need to drink
(27:37):
enough.
Speaker 2 (27:37):
of Memorise, memorise , memorise, memorise.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
I mean, that's some good homework, right yeah.
So, now we've got Menthea.
Yeah, which was not on my bingocard for today.
It's getting bigger and bigger.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
The reason I kind of chose it is because the colour
for me is very Merlot-esque,mm-hmm, but the tannins just set
it apart.
Yeah, so this is from Biezo.
This is from Celterio.
That's the winery Mencia, fromBiezo.
This is from Celterio.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
That's the winery Mencia from Biezo yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
In Spain 12.5% alcohol and it's a 2021.
This is imported by PinnacleDrinks.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
So Biezo is sort of on top of Portugal in the north.
Got my geography shit, is itwest?
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Northwest of.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Spain.
Yeah, it's the left-handed sideof Spain, up the top of
Portugal, so it's sort of aroundGalicia.
It gets a fair bit of rain andMinthea.
For me again, like Tempranillo,describe the characteristics of
Minthea, don't know no.
Blue and red fruits.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
My only context of the Minthea grape is I know that
it's added to Tempranillo forageability and colour.
If you're turning Tempranilloand it's going to be a grown
reserver Minthea is one of themain ones that add to it for
colour and ageability, butthat's beyond that.
(29:14):
I couldn't tell you what ittastes like.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So it is becoming trendier and that's why I got it
.
One of the reasons I got ittoday because it can appear in
MW exams and diploma exams.
I think because it's sort of abit of a trend set up.
Colour could be Merlot.
Yeah, climate exams.
I think, because it's sort of abit of a trend set up Colour
could be Merlot.
Yeah, medium ruby colour Smellsof like raspberry and
(29:44):
strawberry jam a little bit.
That's been mixed together,mm-hmm, the fruit is more
compote-y, it's more cookedfruit than fresh fruit.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, it's like a darkness.
There's not a vibrancy to it.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I wouldn't say there's any blueberry or
blackberry in there.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Do you get something almost like a forest floral?
There's something green inthere definitely Something kind
of manky, but not bad manky,good manky.
I need to come up with a betterword for manky, don't I?
For me it's a little bit likeyou know, when mud becomes a bit
stinky yes, I get that all thetime and I don't mean it in a
(30:21):
bad way, I actually like it.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
It's not a yes, bad thing, but it's got that sort of
a green.
I'm gonna say fetid, which is aterrible term, but there's an
earthy greenness about it.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Dirty mud, I don't know.
Yeah, we need to come up with anicer way to say dirty mud, but
it's what I'm getting to.
But there is a hint of green.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I don't know if this is made with stems or anything,
but the thing that will give itaway it's only 12.5% alcohol.
Those tannins, it, thosetannins.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
It tastes so different to how it smells.
Hmm, it's yummy, though, do youknow?
It almost tastes like aNebbiolo.
It's a little simple.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Do you get?
Speaker 1 (31:01):
that?
Yeah, it is.
Is it a little cork tainted?
Yeah, probably Just a littleyeah.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
But the tannins.
It was under cork.
We're just saying it might be alittle bit cork-tainted, so
it's probably unfair to.
We can't talk about theflavours but we can talk about
the tannin structure, which isdustier and chunkier.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
I was laughing.
They were here when you saidthat.
When you said it was undercork-taint, you said that into
the microphone.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
They heard, even though you were talking to me,
but you can still see past corktaint to have a look at the
structure of the lime.
So we might try and get anotherbottle of this at another time.
I'm not 100% sure.
It's one of those cork taintswhere the fruit just seems
dulled.
It does, and, as you said, notwhat you expected.
No, not at all.
(31:52):
Yeah, but anyway, my tacomessage still serves the same.
Mencia has these dusty, grippytannins, a little bit like
Mataro Mivedra.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
It's got and have, like Chinon, wine from Chinon.
So what if Merlot was a bitrougher?
Speaker 2 (32:14):
If Merlot had been kept on its skins for like six
weeks?
Yeah, okay, yeah, merlot's thelike elegant lady here.
Lady, this is the brutal Merlot.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Not supposed to say things like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Meg, yes, we're not allowed to use gender-related
terms.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Okay, yes, we're not allowed to use masculine and
feminine related terms.
No, okay, I think this has beena really good episode, like I
think, um, in terms of beingable to break down what a wine
is based off what you're tasting.
Hopefully, um, there's somediploma or west at three
students who are listening, whoare fine.
Well, actually, westesset 3don't need to decide what it is,
they just need to do a goodnote, but I don't know even.
(32:55):
It's just nice to know.
I think, as a wine, a someonewho enjoys wine, that's what got
me into wine in the first place.
Um, we went to, of course itwas.
We went to Debilge.
I know, you know, my friendsare salad or manager there now
oh my god, really tell them tosend me some stuff, so.
But I remember standing theretasting stuff and I was like I
(33:20):
just wanted to know.
All I wanted was to be like Iwant to taste a wine and know
whether it's a Riesling or aChardonnay, and that is what set
me off and I started doingcourses and stuff.
I mean, clearly I can tell youif it what we were doing and
what we're doing now, but Icouldn't back then.
No, how would you know?
Yeah, so I think it's reallyhandy to go through and do this
with all the wines.
So this was our medium reds.
(33:41):
We will get to heavy reds laterin the season, but bottom line
is it's down to structure.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
It's got nothing to do with flavours.
Ignore the flavours.
The flavours will give you.
Okay, I'm here.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
So start with structure, decide what it could
be yeah and then come back andbring in the flavours to Support
or get rid of Okay.
But don't start with flavoursand aromas.
All right, love it.
Well, we will be back with younext week, but until then, enjoy
your next glass of wine and
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