Meg and Mel tackle changing dynamics in the Australian wine industry, from restaurant closures to big investments and new marketing directions.
• Meg shares insights from VinExpo Asia where Australian wine received positive feedback and shows a shift toward lighter-bodied reds and more whites
• Oak Ridge restaurant closure highlights broader hospitality industry struggles with profit margins shrinking from 10% to 6-8%
• De Bortoli's vine pulling in warmer regions reflects necessary industry restructuring with significant costs and time investment
• $100 million investment from Vinarki into South Australian winemaking shows confidence despite centralization concerns
• Treasury Wine's $15 million investment in low/no-alcohol technology raises questions about authenticity when flavors are added
• Wine Australia's new "We've Got a Wine for That" campaign receives mixed reviews from industry insiders but positive feedback from everyday consumers
• Industry challenges stem from changing demographics with younger generations drinking less wine than previous generations at the same life stage
Follow us on instagram @winewithmegandmel
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel.
We are here to help younavigate the world of wine.
I'm Meg, your Christian BayMaster of Wine, Meg Broadman,
and we are very sorry about theaudio for the last three
episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We've sorted it out, though.
We've found out what it is.
It's the plug on our audiosystem and I'm sorry that I did
sound like I was recording fromdown a tunnel.
I kind of thought it soundedlike I was away and I was doing
it over the internet, or youknow.
It was miles away, I know Iwish I wasn't but sitting like
two centimeters from you.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
The bright side was I got a couple of messages from
people who have, like you know,never messaged in before saying,
hey, do you know about youraudio?
So it was nice to you know meetsome new listeners.
Thanks, guys, hopefully this isbetter.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, hopefully we've fixed it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hopefully we're fixed .
We're going to do a One Newstoday.
We have a couple of piecesabout the industry that are
bleak, then we have a couple ofpieces that are a bit more
uplifting and then, lastly, weare going to chat about One
Australia's new campaign andgive our thoughts on it.
But first, meg, you've been atVinExpo.
Can you explain what it is andkind of what are some of the key
(01:10):
takeaways you took from it?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So VinExpo, it started in Bordeaux.
It's been going for probably 30years now and then they just
everyone decided that after theair conditioning went out in the
hall that was in Bordeaux inJune, in the Australian stand
hall, that they weren't reallygetting fair treatment.
(01:32):
So a lot of New World wineriesfelt that it was too
European-focused.
And so Van Expo, in order tomake money because it's Van
Exposium is the company, so theyrun a bazillion of these around
the world.
So there's one in.
So Van Expo Asia is eitherbetween Singapore and Hong Kong,
so it alternates each year, butthere's also one in, I think,
(01:56):
shanghai.
So it's a global thing.
It's trying to attract people.
Oh, there's one in somewhereweird in America like Delaware
or something.
Okay, but the one in Asia isobviously very important for
Australian wineries.
So Wine Australia, which is ourmarketing body.
They put together a big WineAustralia stand.
Some wineries can go.
(02:19):
Some dude just popped into myears.
Start again.
So some wineries can go withtheir importers in the country
if they want to, but to have asort of a national presence, we
have a Wine Australia stand andthis year it was a lot of small
regional bodies.
There were individual wineriesas well, but more regional
(02:39):
bodies.
So there was a Gippsland stand,which I'm going to get.
We're going to do a fantasticGippsland episode because I
spoke to them all.
There was a Wippsland stand,which I'm going to get.
We're going to do a fantasticGippsland episode because I
spoke to them all.
There was a Wainera Valleystand.
There was a little bit of aBarossa area, there was a Clare
area and there were individualwineries sort of dotted around.
So it was.
Everyone said that it wasquieter than they were expecting
(03:00):
, but the people that camethrough were quite good.
We didn't see as many of thechinese that I think we would
have seen if we'd been in hongkong.
So maybe they, you know,thought it probably wasn't
worthwhile.
But they've also got provineshanghai, which is another very
similar um thing.
(03:21):
So you know, they're probablyone and done for the year
because these things are reallyexpensive to go to but I mean
like, did people like theaustralian wine?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
how was the reception was?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
great.
Yeah, feedback was great.
So I did a um an interview withdaily shout magazine and they
you know everyone.
I was reading the article theother day and everyone was
saying that, um, that peoplewere responding well to wines.
We can see a distinct change ofstyle.
There is a real change tolighter-bodied reds and more
(03:54):
whites and sparkling, which allbodes well for, obviously, the
region that I'm most concernedabout, but also Australia,
because Australia has we've goteverything, yeah, so it's good.
It was definitely worth going to.
There were quite a fewmasterclasses.
The Chinese masterclasses wereincredibly well attended.
(04:15):
I tasted a $900 Chardonnay fromthe Chinese Himalayas.
Oh my God, it was deliciouswine, but $900, mate, that's an
airfare to Singapore, like I'mnot spending $900 on.
And I did say to them why areyou pitching so high?
Because your market is so tiny,because I want to get into the
(04:37):
Australian market.
And I said, look, I've readabout these Caldwell sellers who
seem to be importing someChinese wines and they're like,
oh no, but this is how much itcosts to make the wine.
And I said, no, it doesn't.
Like I know, okay, theHimalayas, fair enough, is going
to be a pretty marginal climate, but 900 bucks a bottle, but we
(04:58):
all know it's nothing to dowith.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
it doesn't cost $3,000 to make a Gucci handbag
either.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
No, no, that's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Anyway, it was good.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
It was worth going to .
Speaker 2 (05:10):
There was good buzz around Australia.
Europe looked a little bit flat.
The French had a huge sort ofarea.
Yeah, and yeah, it wasdefinitely worth why he was
going to.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, so we are starting off with a couple of
bleak stories, but luckily thereare some stories of investment
in the industry and stuff.
So let's just get the uglystuff out of the way.
The first one is Oak Ridgeshutting down their restaurant.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yes, oak Ridge cutting and saw the share price
for Endeavor dropped and we haveheard anecdotally that there
are redundancies coming out ofEndeavor and I'm assuming that
that's right across the wholedrinks business of Endeavor
which would be the retailersPinnacle Drinks At least with
Oak Ridge.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
it's just the restaurant chatting down and
it's not, you know, the cellardoor.
Oakridge isn't going anywhere.
I actually did message ourfriend Cara Monsen this morning
because I wanted to get aperspective.
Is this what's going on inrestaurants all over Australia?
Like, is this in line withwhat's going on?
And she had this to say hey,megan Mal.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So if we're talking profits in restaurant land,
they've always been way for thin.
But if we're talking aboutprofits in this cost of living
crisis, well, they're virtuallynon-existent or very, very small
.
There was once upon a time the30-30-30 rule, when you're
running a restaurant whereby 30%of your profit will go to the
(06:47):
running of the restaurant, 30%goes to produce and goods, so
food and wine, and then 30% goesto wages, with the 10% left
over going to profit.
But when you add in the cost ofliving crisis where everything
has gone up, the cost of produce, the cost of wages, essentially
(07:08):
people should and must bepaying their staff the award
rate, so that's expensive.
When you add in weekends and youadd in Sunday rate and public
holidays, I've been told by anumber of chefs that the current
profit margin would be sittingaround 6%, 7%, 8%.
In restaurants it's no longer10% profit margin, unless, of
(07:30):
course, you come from a biggroup, that may be the exception
.
I know that it is very, veryhard out there and restaurants
are doing all they can to make abuck, but at the end of the day
they're trying all the tricksin the book, they're putting up
prices of produce, they'reputting up prices of particular
(07:51):
dishes, but even that isn'tmaking ends meet.
So it is really tough out thereif you are running a restaurant
in 2025.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
out there if you are running a restaurant in 2025?
Well, I think I told you whenwe were dealing with the
administrators.
She said that pre-COVID, theircompany would get maybe one
restaurant every month and theywere getting two a week.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Okay, even in I was reading an article in China.
So all of the really high-endrestaurants in China are now
offering I'm going to use theterm bogan menus.
But they're offering cheapmenus because they can't afford
for only the rich to eat there.
They have to sort of attractanother market, and that's part
(08:35):
of the problem with regionalrestaurants is the locals.
They're not going to go thereevery week, no, and so you're
relying on tourists.
Yeah, tourists don't comemidweek, so it's shut midweek,
so maybe it's open Friday,saturday, sunday, maybe Monday.
You can't sustain it.
You're paying a full chef'swage.
(08:56):
You're paying, you know, maybea restaurant manager's wage for
five days a week.
It just doesn't make any sense.
And then how do you retain yourstaff when they're only getting
four shifts a week?
You know of maybe three hours.
It just doesn't add up.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's pointing to the problem that there's a problem
with the wine industry.
We can't make ends meet at themoment in the wine industry, but
then there's also thehospitality side and the
restaurant side.
That is also in hot water andwe incorporate both of those
things in the industry.
Are you worried about theeffect it's going to have on the
Yarra Valley?
Because Oak Ridge really is aflagship for us.
(09:31):
It promotes tourism and I knowa lot of people in the Yarra
Valley do kind of roll theireyes because Oak Ridge win all
the awards and it's like oh whatOak Ridge won?
Haha, it does happen a lot, butat the end of the day, oak
Ridge do so much oh no for theYarra Valley.
So should we be?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
worried.
They wave our flag very highand they, you know, put us on
that premium stage, which iswhere we belong.
No, I'm not.
Um, I don't think it's.
The drawcard is the cellar doorand the wines.
I'm not too worried about therestaurant, I don't think.
I don't think it's.
The drawcard is the cellar doorand the wines.
I'm not too worried about therestaurant.
I don't think.
I don't go to wineryrestaurants.
Yeah, you know I go to thecellar doors, I may eat at the
(10:10):
restaurant if I.
You know, I'm hungry at thetime, which is kind of all the
time, but I don't go to the.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, I'm not sure you are representative of a
general consumer.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Although a few years ago they did have an amazing
chef, I think Matt Stone, Ithink, was his name.
Okay, so for me it was a bit ofa go-to destination Oak Ridge
Restaurant but I don't know thatI could name the chef now.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Well, I think let's tie up that.
Let's move to anotherdepressing story before it gets
light.
De Borderly was in theAustralian this week talking
about how things are tough andthey're ripping up vines.
Meg, is this anything new?
Or is this just a continuationof what we've been talking about
for a while now?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It's nothing new.
We've been reading about thisfor ages.
In the Riverland, the Riverina,you know, rutherg glenn, no
one's people aren't drinkingthose ten dollar big warm inland
wines, and we know that.
And that's why I keep sayingthe whole industry needs a
bloody restructure, yeah, and wejust have to bite the bullet.
And it'd be really good ifthere was some government bloody
(11:14):
money, some subsidy for vinepulling to actually work out
what is what we can repurposethat land for so the farmers can
make a coin, and it can't bealmonds because they take too
much water.
So, no, it's not really anynews, but the number of phone
calls I got about this was likeoh my God, because they
associate deborts with the Yarra.
(11:36):
Yeah, and I was just like no,it's not the Yarra?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
No, it's all the same .
Read the article um it's.
It's the warming land regionswhat always fascinate like the
thing that people need torealize about wine is that if
there's a trend in, say, beer,and people start drinking pale
ale instead of IPA, the beermakers just start making pale
ale.
Like they can respond toconsumers like that.
(11:58):
Our issue is that, meg, if aviticulturalist has a cab sav
planted and no one's drinkingcab sav, how long would it take
to take out the cab sav replantand how long before it's viable
enough that he can be sellingquality Pinot Noir grapes or she
(12:19):
that he can?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
be selling quality Pinot Noir grapes, so it will
cost you.
Someone in the era actuallyestimated that it was going to
cost him $30,000 a hectare topull out some Cabernet and
replant with, I think, PinotGris, whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And part of that is that's not the actual cost, but
it's the opportunity cost.
So you can't sell that fruitand then you're waiting for
three years.
So that's three years.
You can't be selling that fruitand then you've got to wait for
it and the Pinot Gris.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
So once you plant these new vines, it takes three
to five years before they growfruit or before they grow
quality fruit.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Oh, before they grow fruit Three years before they
grow fruit, or before they growquality fruit, oh, before they
grow fruit Three years beforethey grow fruit.
Oh my gosh.
You might get first crop offthree years if you can get it up
to the wire fast enough, yeah.
And then that relies on waterand in these inland regions
you're not going to do that.
So if you don't get it up tothe wire, it could be up to five
years before you get it there,and your first crop's always
serviceable, but it needs to beblended away and it's usually
(13:21):
really small, yeah.
So five years, you may startmaking some money, that's so
this is to the point of it,right.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We and and these articles always say hopefully
people start appreciating bigger, rich reds again and no, yeah,
I'm cynical about that butthat's not the point.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We're drinking less.
It's not, it's not theirpreference, so we're drinking
less.
So we have to say to ourselvesthe industry has to be smaller
globally yeah poor, those pulledout.
What was it?
Eight, 14,000 hectares orsomething.
Yeah it.
Just we just have to shrink howmuch we're producing.
We're not going to find abigger market.
No, you know, the population ofthe world is not getting bigger
(14:09):
.
Yeah, china is never going tobe as big as it is now.
In fact, india's bigger thanChina, yeah.
So yeah, we just have to.
Everyone in the industry sayswe just have to produce less.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
All right.
Well, onto something a bit lessupsetting.
Here's our good news.
We have a couple of investmentstories in the industry.
Now we do talk about the bigones because they're the ones
that you know hit the newspapersand stuff, but also they are an
indication of what's happeningin the wider industry.
But so the Vinarki who we spokeabout they sound like a like a
(14:47):
old school rock band haveinvested.
They've said that they'reinvesting a hundred million in
South Australia winemakingoverhaul.
That's a huge amount.
So there must be some kind ofpromise in the wine industry if
they're doing this I wonder howmuch of that is redundancies no,
(15:08):
no, no.
Um overhaul, no, no, including a100 million.
No, they're saying they'reinvesting it.
They're not saving it.
They're investing 100 millionin two winemaking hubs.
Oh, and the closer of cooselling salad doors yeah, yeah,
what they're investing in.
Two, okay, one 30 30 milliondollar roll and flat
(15:30):
redevelopment will focus onadvanced viticulture and
high-end wine techniques, whileberry estates, already the
largest winery in southernhemisphere, has received more
than 70 million to further scaleup packaging, warehhousing and
winemaking capabilities.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Which means all the other little wineries that they
were working with and that theyown will be shut and everything
will be shipped to.
Very much the treasury modelback from the 1990s, the Mildara
Blast model.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
So, yes, I was trying to make it lighthearted in here
, wow.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's what I suspect , because that's what happened.
That's rough.
You know, when mildara blaststarted buying out wineries, um,
what they did is theyconsolidated bottling.
So they said, okay, what you dois, you don't.
Um, we have one bottling line.
It might be in south australia.
We're not going to send it toyour little local winery down
the road.
You're now going to put it in atanker and you're going to send
it out to us.
So it's all going to beconsolidated into one.
(16:20):
And Roland Flat, that's amassive, massive, massive site.
Oh, I did a vintage there, didthey not?
They couldn't sell.
They tried to sell the vineyard, but they couldn't, didn't sell
the winery or they didn't sellthe brand, or well, anyway,
there was some.
They tried to get rid of it.
Yeah, roland Flood's enormousyeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, so it looks like they're moving winemaking
from, like, st Hallett.
They'll leave the St Hallettcellar door, but they're going
to do all the winemaking in theone place.
So redundancy, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Oh, okay, yeah, I mean you're looking at Treasury
in Nuriupda.
I mean, the number of brandsthat come out of that winery is
just phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, cheery news.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Moving on.
Let's see if we can turn thisone negative too.
Okay, treasury has justannounced 15.
So Treasury who own Penfolds,most notably, but also a bunch
of well-known Australian winebrands has just announced $15
million investment intospecifically low and no alcohol
(17:29):
wines.
And they are so sure about thisnew technique.
They are in the newspapers.
The headlines are sayingthey've cracked the code.
They've cracked it.
Low alcohol used to taste bad,not anymore.
Like no alcohol used to tastebad, not anymore.
They say they've cracked it.
They've got a new technique,they've invested $15 million in
it and they've patented it.
Is this at least a sign thatthe wine industry is evolving
(17:55):
and investing still?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Evolving?
Yes, I don't think it's a newtechnology.
Remember we watched that videoon the guy.
He said that his dad had thisamazing technique of being able
to ferment all the sugar out todryness in a wine.
I suspect it's some sort ofform of reverse osmosis, plus
growing the grapes like thegeese and wines that we have
from new zealand.
They, they do a combination andthat they're actually they're
(18:19):
low alcohol, but then why wouldthey patent it if it's just
reverse osmosis?
No, it will be somethingsimilar technology, but there's
obviously some significantchange.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I don't know if we've ever spoken about reverse.
Can you quickly?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Does everyone know osmosis?
Probably not.
So say, I've got a really saltysolution on the left-hand side
and a less salty solution on theright-hand side and I've got a
membrane in between.
The salt will migrate becauseit wants to equalize.
So reverse osmosis is sort ofthe same.
We're basically taking thealcohol out of the wine and the
(18:57):
wine keeps passing through andthen we put.
We take the alcohol back and wecan put back the amount of
alcohol that we need to put intoit.
It's basically just, it's analcohol removal system.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So it's basically just passing through.
It's too scientific to try andexplain.
And if you don't understandosmosis, it's reverse.
It's the reverse of wow, it'sthe reverse of osmosis.
Wow, it is the reverse ofosmosis.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Wow, meg Treasury has announced one of the first
things that they're making withthis.
Have you seen the new productthat's going to be launched?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Moscato.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's called Sorbet.
Now these sorbet wines, Meg,are going to come in like mango
and, and very flavor and stuffit's not wine.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
This is a flavored wine based product.
So, yeah, it might taste better, but it's not de-alcoholized
wine.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
So I'm sorry, you're just putting a little bit of
makeup on what could be fairlyordinary wine maybe we need to
get a a statement from Treasuryto suss out a bit about this
process, but it is interestingto see this lower alcohol trend.
But yeah, Austin, jump in.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Sorry.
Yeah is it true or at least Iread something that now the
second highest selling type ofbeer is non-alcoholic in the
world.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Don't know, okay, yeah, I don't know about that.
I know that mid-strength sells.
I think mid-strength sellsbetter than full strength.
Now, there you go.
But yeah, yeah, no.
So beer, it's so ingrained inbeer and and we are just not
doing good enough in winebecause we can't make it taste
good.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
No, because if we take the alcohol, it it's
fucking juice, like seriously,all right, we need to chat, I
would, I will.
I will dig deeper on thistreasury thing because,
seriously, I'm sorry, that isnot wine.
I can make a low alcohol winebased product.
I can make a seltzer just byadding some water, and if I had
(20:58):
flavor, I mask all the dilution,so it doesn't really matter.
So $15 million is not a lot.
I want to see what their winetastes like with no flavouring
added to it.
All right, because we're notallowed to add flavour to wine.
This is the problem.
The law states that we can'tadd flavour to wine.
(21:19):
So that would be in terms ofand call it wine.
So, say, the passion fruitflavour that you get in
Sauvignon.
We can't add that.
And so if we could do that, ifit was actually extracted from
the grape and from the originalwine, you know, we might be able
to do it.
But yeah, let's wait and see.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Why is that different , though, from, I guess, like
non-alcoholic beer?
Do you consider it the samething where you don't consider
that a beer because it lacks thealcohol, or is the process
similar enough that….
Speaker 2 (21:52):
A lot of beer flavours aren't based on the
fruit.
That's the thing.
It's actually based on themalting process and the hops
that you put in.
It's not based on the fruit andyou've only got the grape to
work on to give the flavour andsome of the fermentation esters.
And there is some fermentationby-products in beer, like
(22:13):
dimethyl sulfide, which we hatein wine but is actually a good
thing in beer.
So they're adding their flavourwith hops and also with yeast.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
So look, the last thing I want to talk about is
this Wine Australia campaignthat's just been released.
I think, before we go into whatit is, let's give a framework
for how Wine Australia works.
So, meg, where does WineAustralia get their funding and
what are the things they use itfor?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
So we all pay a producer's levy for the number
of grapes that we produce.
It's just something that we doand that goes to the federal
government, and then theyapportion that to Wine Australia
, basically, and otherpromotional bodies Well, not
promotional bodies, but a bit toAustrade.
It's to help us do business.
So Austrade's been around foryears.
(23:04):
It's Wine Australia, sorry, hasbeen around for years.
It was probably most famous inthe 1980s when they sent an
incredible woman called HazelMurphy to the UK and she took
with her this concept ofsunshine in a bottle, which is
what they were selling to the UK, and we just saw Australian
wine absolutely boom in the UKit worked.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kind of I used to therepercussions of it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I worked for a company and we were the were the
testers for quick savesupermarkets, quick saves now
summerfeld, quick save with a kclassy anyway.
Every monday I would have likedozens and dozens and dozens of
bottles of wine that I wouldhave to go through and taste
before they were released fromthe warehouse to say that they
(23:51):
were okay.
And we had one calledbarramundi chardonnay.
And do you remember kendonefrom the 1980s?
Okay, google it.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I wasn't around in the 1980s, it's um, bright blue,
pink.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Sydney harbour bridge flowers.
Olivia, newton john had bigjumpers like that awesome.
It was a kendone label, yeah,and it and it had the Sydney
Harbour Bridge and I think therewas a cockatoo on it.
Yeah, it was called Barramundi,there was a cockatoo Shiraz and
did really well.
Wine Australia has been fairlywell funded.
Obviously, the more money theindustry makes, the more money
(24:27):
Wine Australia makes Now,because the industry is in a
little bit of the doldrums andwe're crushing less Wine
Australia gets less.
It's a user pay system, so wepay.
They also run our exporting.
So all the laws and our labelintegrity program.
Yeah lobbying, advocacy,everything, but a big remit of
them is to do marketing nationaland international events.
(24:50):
Now, yes, there's beenrepercussions about the sunshine
in a bottle and the most recentcampaign was Made Our Way,
which I really loved, and theyreally dug into the stories of
winemakers.
It was all very gritty andgrainy and they didn't just
focus on the big wineries, theyfocused on smaller wineries.
But the people who had storiesand they put great campaigns.
(25:11):
They put great campaigns.
They've instituted the A1, soit's an educational program, so
you can actually do the courseand then you become a nominated
educator of Australian wine andpeople in China particularly
love that because they loved apiece of paper and a certificate
.
And I can teach you aboutAustralian wine because I've
(25:32):
done my A1 course and it isbrilliant, obviously.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
That is.
That's very cool, that part ofit.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
They were really big in Japan in the 1990s and then
took because Japan was boomingfor us, took the money out of
Japan and into China and closedthe office in Japan and the
Japanese were not happy.
If any of you know history,japan and China haven't had a
great political history.
And I was in Japan pre-COVIDand they were just saying why do
(26:00):
we not have an Australian wineand wine Australia office here?
Why is there no one herepromoting the wines?
It's absolutely ridiculous.
You had such a great presence,you were doing such great things
and then obviously, when Chinaclosed, they started to move
back towards Japan and Japan wasa little bit well, fuck you for
there.
But they're doing some goodstuff in Japan and Korea.
They're doing.
(26:21):
They do road shows, so theChina road show.
They do one through SoutheastAsia, so they're doing Thailand,
vietnam.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
So there's a lot in there very mid.
And then I have another framingquestion for you as president
of Wine Yarra Valley.
You run one of theseassociations like a small scale
one.
How easy is it to please everywinery when you make a campaign?
All of your members oh it'simpossible, yeah, it's
(26:49):
impossible.
So I think let's get into it,just framing things.
This new campaign is calledWe've Got a Wine for that, and
what it is is.
It's basically a series ofscenarios a backyard barbecue, a
night out with mates, datenight, dinner party, I don't
know, looking over the beach,all these things, all these
(27:11):
pictures, and it says we've gota wine for that.
Drink Australian wine.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It is really important for us going into
these less mature markets toshow people how to drink wine.
In Singapore we went to thisbougie bloody wine bar.
The good thing about Singaporeis the wine prices are expensive
on the retail shelf but they'rethe same price basically in a
restaurant.
So, you may be paying $150 for aChablis, but you'd be paying
(27:36):
that if you're sitting in yourhotel room.
Anyway, we were sitting there.
We were sitting outside.
It's 35 degrees Celsius.
We had to ask for an ice bucketand these are Europeans running
this place.
They had like rillette andsaucisson and all of the fat in
the rillette was just runningout because of the heat and it's
just like, oh, this is not howI would be serving my wine, but
(27:58):
showing people how to use wineis the key.
It's a domestic campaign.
Yeah, this is what I find sostrange, because we know.
Maybe we don't, maybe Gen Zshave no idea.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
My reaction when I first looked at it was this is
general, like this feels sogeneral, like it's not giving me
a selling proposition for thewine itself.
But then you look further intothe campaign and what they're
actually trying to do is retaincurrent wine drinkers.
So they're saying that winedrinkers are leaving and they
(28:35):
are trying to remind people howgood all these occasions are
with the wine, or set anoccasion like a festival, and
they're like you could have awine and that would be awesome.
The next thing, and and but.
So when I thought this is toogeneric in my head there's not a
specific proposition I broughtmyself back to Wine.
Australia has so many wineriesthey're trying to please.
(28:57):
The other thing is this is acampaign that is sector led,
which is kind of interesting initself.
So we're not going to see anypaid campaigns on TV like we
might've in the past.
We're not going to see any paidmedia behind this.
This is just something thatWine Australia is putting
forward and in a time wherestaff is tough, people might not
(29:21):
be able to have a marketingperson, they might not be able
to hire a marketing team, theymight struggle to create their
own assets.
Wine Australia is giving allthese assets and they're saying
just pop your own logo in andjust pop your own bottle in, and
here's some stuff you can use.
That's one thing is it's it'spotentially helping wineries
that can't afford their ownmarketing.
And the second thing is maybe acampaign like this, if we are
(29:46):
united as an industry and abunch of wineries are going to
use it, it will have that effectlike a bigger effect, because
we're going to have more touchpoints.
I do wish that there was aflagship media program
supporting it, because I just amnot sure individual wineries
can get a momentum.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And again are we promoting wine Australia.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
No, we're promoting Australian wine Right.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
But you need to plant that in a region.
Why?
Because it's all just, it isgeneric, it could all be the
same.
Yeah, if it doesn't, you knowand I'm not saying that only the
premium regions are the onlyregions the Riverland could have
(30:36):
its own.
You know, we've got a wine forthat.
We've got Aglianico, forexample, or Sagratino, or
whatever.
Yeah, but again it's got to goback to the region and I know
that Wine Australia's job is notto promote the regions.
They work closely with all ofthe regional associations to do
cross promotions, yeah, buttheir job is not to promote each
(30:57):
of those individual regions.
That's a job's a job of theassociation of the region.
But I just, I don't, I don'tknow they.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
yeah, look, give it a go okay, I, I've asked the
people, so I put it out there onthe podcast, instagram today
and went the people, the people.
We are so deep in the industrywe know so much about, why we
want to know about wine.
I'm like, are we thinkingdifferently to everything else,
to everyone else?
Um, one of the first responsesI got back was you know, brendan
(31:26):
Rubnick, the wine animal.
He had, um, some fighting words.
He says it doesn't make me wantto buy Australian wine in the
slightest.
He wants to see the peoplebehind wine farmers, winemakers
and stuff.
I, um, I understand that and Ithink there's definitely a
portion of people and honestly,that is a classic technique for
(31:47):
one showing the people behind it, and we see it a lot in
anything agricultural.
We see it in like cheese andstuff.
Yeah, yeah, peas.
Um, I like, I do actually likethat it's occasion-based.
We're tapping into the consumerrather than just talking about
ourselves.
We're talking about them.
Um, interestingly, um, someonesaid it makes me think about
(32:11):
australian wines as an optionfor occasions I might not
normally drink wine at, forexample, at festivals.
I would never me think aboutAustralian wines as an option
for occasions I might notnormally drink wine at, for
example, at festivals, I wouldnever even think about drinking
wine, but now it's going throughmy mind well, you can't get
glass into festivals.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That's one of the often one of the problems as
well.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Meg, it's they.
They serve it in plastic.
Does that upset you plasticcups?
But they can't.
So you can't take it in.
Well, they sell it to you.
You can't take it in, well,they sell it to you.
You can't take in your ownstuff.
I don't know.
You go to, you think, an oldschool festival.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, no, I mean, those were the days, but no,
these days you're buying Okay,so it's all served in plastic.
I don't care if it's served inplastic seriously.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Okay.
So someone else who is clearlyinto wine has the exact same
point as you.
She thinks that there should beterroir-specific messaging that
positions Australian wines as adistinct category within the
broader landscape.
But interestingly, the peoplewho message back and when I
messaged a few friends whoaren't in the wine world, they
(33:13):
are way more likely to say yeah,like it.
It's making me think you knowwhat that?
That wine camping looks nice.
It makes me want to buy a winecamping.
This is really interesting.
Hannah, my mate, said it makesher think that she doesn't think
enough when she's in store,whether it's Australian or
(33:34):
international when she looks ata wine.
And she said, looking at allthese images saying specifically
promoting Australian wine madeher go.
Next time I'm in a store I'mgoing to just check that the
wine's Australian, because I dowant to support local.
So there you go.
There's some differentperspectives I think we're going
to hear a lot about.
I just I do honestly feel forone australia whenever they let
(33:56):
out anything.
I know there's just so muchopinion and everyone feels
entitled to all their opinionsbecause they're all like we pay
our levies and blah, blah, blahyeah, and look, they're
literally it's one guy.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, so it's it is.
They obviously use agencies andthings.
But yeah, look, if there is, ifit's sector-led and there's
good communication with theregional associations to get
behind it and maybe do acampaign with them, then why not
?
But I don't think.
(34:29):
I just don't think the YarraValley is going, a premium
region is going to go.
We're going to warn for them.
Yeah, I think you know it tookus years to come up with cool by
nature in the yarra valley.
Yeah, so I don't think we'regoing to change in your logo
anytime soon, but yeah, will itwork?
I don't know.
If you say that customers,consumers, are looking at it in
(34:52):
a positive way, then I am wrong.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's.
Yeah, I think it's.
You're right, it's not theluxury consumers that we are
used to talking to, it is your$15 wine consumers.
One last thing that I want tosay, which is just so funny
because I was talking about thisin my group chat this morning,
jess.
You know, jess, she's veryfunny and she had a couple of
(35:16):
ideas for how we could actuallyrun a campaign to promote
Australians drinking Australianwine.
Her first tagline was lua, yeah, nah.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Eh, problem is most people wouldn't know how to
pronounce the lua.
Yes, cute, and think of it likeon a picture of Kath and Kim or
something.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, problem is most people wouldn't know how to
pronounce the Loire yes, cute,and think of it like on a
picture of Kath and Kim orsomething.
The second one this one camefrom Chat Trip, which, I'm not
going to lie, I just startedexploring it because I thought
that was hilarious.
What about no, rhone?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
No worries, Vaudo hell, no, oh God, austin, austin
, thank you, vaudo hell no Vodo,Hell no, austin, austin, vodo,
hell, no Champagne, yes, please,sorry, no, I think, yes, no, I
mean obviously not.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
We're not doing that.
People don't even know whatLoire is.
I'm making a joke.
You don't have to take it soseriously, meg Imports while
they are heavy on wine lists,account for what?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
13% of the total wine ?
No, between 6% and 10% of totalwine in Australia.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So this campaign is not worried.
I don't think they're superworried about people choosing
international over Australian.
They're worried more aboutdeclining.
But why?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
is it declining Because they're dying?
The boomers were the biggestconsumers of wine.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
No, but people, even Gen Z, are drinking less wine.
No, but we know that.
Comparative to when previousgenerations were at the same
stage of life.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yes, but we know that 37 is when is peak wine
drinking and buying age.
So that's what millennialsstarted improving when they all
hit 37.
No, but Now they're in their40s.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
But so, but there were more millennials drinking
at that point, yes, yeah, solike it is a trend that is
wearing Also, but also are thereless Gen Zers we want.
No, they're just all healthy,meg.
They're so boofing, they're not.
There's all this.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
I have two in my house.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I know you have personal Gen Zers, but I have
research and there is this hugephenomenon where, instead of
going to the pub, they stay homeand they do their game.
That's why less people are inpubs now.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, my kids go to the pub.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Well, your kids are cool, they are.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Although I did try and throw out the Trivial
Pursuit from like 1995, andLucas said no, you can't,
because he's really into Russianhistory.
It's got all these questionsabout the USSR, which doesn't
exist anymore.
I said no one cares about thatand he goes it's going to be a
great drinking game.
So he's pulled it back out ofthe rubbish.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Anyway, we should talk.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Okay, we'll wrap it up.
Hopefully one of these days, inOne News, we'll bring you some
good news, but look for now, I'mactually really interested in
what your take is.
So if you haven't already sentme your take on this campaign,
please send it to me.
I'm interested to read all ofthem.
Yeah, um, but we'll be backwith you next week.
(38:24):
We're going to look at somesparklings and then we're going
to look at Barbera, and untilthen, enjoy your next glass of
wine and drink well.
Hi and welcome to Wine with Meg and Mel.
We are here to help younavigate the world of wine.
I'm Meg, your Christian BayMaster of Wine, Meg Broadman,
and we are very sorry about theaudio for the last three
episodes.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We've sorted it out, though.
We've found out what it is.
It's the plug on our audiosystem and I'm sorry that I did
sound like I was recording fromdown a tunnel.
I kind of thought it soundedlike I was away and I was doing
it over the internet, or youknow.
It was miles away, I know Iwish I wasn't but sitting like
two centimeters from you.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
The bright side was I got a couple of messages from
people who have, like you know,never messaged in before saying,
hey, do you know about youraudio?
So it was nice to you know meetsome new listeners.
Thanks, guys, hopefully this isbetter.
Thanks.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, hopefully we've fixed it.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Hopefully we're fixed .
We're going to do a One Newstoday.
We have a couple of piecesabout the industry that are
bleak, then we have a couple ofpieces that are a bit more
uplifting and then, lastly, weare going to chat about One
Australia's new campaign andgive our thoughts on it.
But first, meg, you've been atVinExpo.
Can you explain what it is andkind of what are some of the key
(01:10):
takeaways you took from it?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
So VinExpo, it started in Bordeaux.
It's been going for probably 30years now and then they just
everyone decided that after theair conditioning went out in the
hall that was in Bordeaux inJune, in the Australian stand
hall, that they weren't reallygetting fair treatment.
(01:32):
So a lot of New World wineriesfelt that it was too
European-focused.
And so Van Expo, in order tomake money because it's Van
Exposium is the company, so theyrun a bazillion of these around
the world.
So there's one in.
So Van Expo Asia is eitherbetween Singapore and Hong Kong,
so it alternates each year, butthere's also one in, I think,
(01:56):
shanghai.
So it's a global thing.
It's trying to attract people.
Oh, there's one in somewhereweird in America like Delaware
or something.
Okay, but the one in Asia isobviously very important for
Australian wineries.
So Wine Australia, which is ourmarketing body.
They put together a big WineAustralia stand.
Some wineries can go.
(02:19):
Some dude just popped into myears.
Start again.
So some wineries can go withtheir importers in the country
if they want to, but to have asort of a national presence, we
have a Wine Australia stand andthis year it was a lot of small
regional bodies.
There were individual wineriesas well, but more regional
(02:39):
bodies.
So there was a Gippsland stand,which I'm going to get.
We're going to do a fantasticGippsland episode because I
spoke to them all.
There was a Wippsland stand,which I'm going to get.
We're going to do a fantasticGippsland episode because I
spoke to them all.
There was a Wainera Valleystand.
There was a little bit of aBarossa area, there was a Clare
area and there were individualwineries sort of dotted around.
So it was.
Everyone said that it wasquieter than they were expecting
(03:00):
, but the people that camethrough were quite good.
We didn't see as many of thechinese that I think we would
have seen if we'd been in hongkong.
So maybe they, you know,thought it probably wasn't
worthwhile.
But they've also got provineshanghai, which is another very
similar um thing.
(03:21):
So you know, they're probablyone and done for the year
because these things are reallyexpensive to go to but I mean
like, did people like theaustralian wine?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
how was the reception was?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
great.
Yeah, feedback was great.
So I did a um an interview withdaily shout magazine and they
you know everyone.
I was reading the article theother day and everyone was
saying that, um, that peoplewere responding well to wines.
We can see a distinct change ofstyle.
There is a real change tolighter-bodied reds and more
(03:54):
whites and sparkling, which allbodes well for, obviously, the
region that I'm most concernedabout, but also Australia,
because Australia has we've goteverything, yeah, so it's good.
It was definitely worth going to.
There were quite a fewmasterclasses.
The Chinese masterclasses wereincredibly well attended.
(04:15):
I tasted a $900 Chardonnay fromthe Chinese Himalayas.
Oh my God, it was deliciouswine, but $900, mate, that's an
airfare to Singapore, like I'mnot spending $900 on.
And I did say to them why areyou pitching so high?
Because your market is so tiny,because I want to get into the
(04:37):
Australian market.
And I said, look, I've readabout these Caldwell sellers who
seem to be importing someChinese wines and they're like,
oh no, but this is how much itcosts to make the wine.
And I said, no, it doesn't.
Like I know, okay, theHimalayas, fair enough, is going
to be a pretty marginal climate, but 900 bucks a bottle, but we
(04:58):
all know it's nothing to dowith.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
it doesn't cost $3,000 to make a Gucci handbag
either.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
No, no, that's exactly right.
That's exactly right.
Anyway, it was good.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
It was worth going to .
Speaker 2 (05:10):
There was good buzz around Australia.
Europe looked a little bit flat.
The French had a huge sort ofarea.
Yeah, and yeah, it wasdefinitely worth why he was
going to.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, so we are starting off with a couple of
bleak stories, but luckily thereare some stories of investment
in the industry and stuff.
So let's just get the uglystuff out of the way.
The first one is Oak Ridgeshutting down their restaurant.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yes, oak Ridge cutting and saw the share price
for Endeavor dropped and we haveheard anecdotally that there
are redundancies coming out ofEndeavor and I'm assuming that
that's right across the wholedrinks business of Endeavor
which would be the retailersPinnacle Drinks At least with
Oak Ridge.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
it's just the restaurant chatting down and
it's not, you know, the cellardoor.
Oakridge isn't going anywhere.
I actually did message ourfriend Cara Monsen this morning
because I wanted to get aperspective.
Is this what's going on inrestaurants all over Australia?
Like, is this in line withwhat's going on?
And she had this to say hey,megan Mal.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
So if we're talking profits in restaurant land,
they've always been way for thin.
But if we're talking aboutprofits in this cost of living
crisis, well, they're virtuallynon-existent or very, very small
.
There was once upon a time the30-30-30 rule, when you're
running a restaurant whereby 30%of your profit will go to the
(06:47):
running of the restaurant, 30%goes to produce and goods, so
food and wine, and then 30% goesto wages, with the 10% left
over going to profit.
But when you add in the cost ofliving crisis where everything
has gone up, the cost of produce, the cost of wages, essentially
(07:08):
people should and must bepaying their staff the award
rate, so that's expensive.
When you add in weekends and youadd in Sunday rate and public
holidays, I've been told by anumber of chefs that the current
profit margin would be sittingaround 6%, 7%, 8%.
In restaurants it's no longer10% profit margin, unless, of
(07:30):
course, you come from a biggroup, that may be the exception
.
I know that it is very, veryhard out there and restaurants
are doing all they can to make abuck, but at the end of the day
they're trying all the tricksin the book, they're putting up
prices of produce, they'reputting up prices of particular
(07:51):
dishes, but even that isn'tmaking ends meet.
So it is really tough out thereif you are running a restaurant
in 2025.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
out there if you are running a restaurant in 2025?
Well, I think I told you whenwe were dealing with the
administrators.
She said that pre-COVID, theircompany would get maybe one
restaurant every month and theywere getting two a week.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Okay, even in I was reading an article in China.
So all of the really high-endrestaurants in China are now
offering I'm going to use theterm bogan menus.
But they're offering cheapmenus because they can't afford
for only the rich to eat there.
They have to sort of attractanother market, and that's part
(08:35):
of the problem with regionalrestaurants is the locals.
They're not going to go thereevery week, no, and so you're
relying on tourists.
Yeah, tourists don't comemidweek, so it's shut midweek,
so maybe it's open Friday,saturday, sunday, maybe Monday.
You can't sustain it.
You're paying a full chef'swage.
(08:56):
You're paying, you know, maybea restaurant manager's wage for
five days a week.
It just doesn't make any sense.
And then how do you retain yourstaff when they're only getting
four shifts a week?
You know of maybe three hours.
It just doesn't add up.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
It's pointing to the problem that there's a problem
with the wine industry.
We can't make ends meet at themoment in the wine industry, but
then there's also thehospitality side and the
restaurant side.
That is also in hot water andwe incorporate both of those
things in the industry.
Are you worried about theeffect it's going to have on the
Yarra Valley?
Because Oak Ridge really is aflagship for us.
(09:31):
It promotes tourism and I knowa lot of people in the Yarra
Valley do kind of roll theireyes because Oak Ridge win all
the awards and it's like oh whatOak Ridge won?
Haha, it does happen a lot, butat the end of the day, oak
Ridge do so much oh no for theYarra Valley.
So should we be?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
worried.
They wave our flag very highand they, you know, put us on
that premium stage, which iswhere we belong.
No, I'm not.
Um, I don't think it's.
The drawcard is the cellar doorand the wines.
I'm not too worried about therestaurant, I don't think.
I don't think it's.
The drawcard is the cellar doorand the wines.
I'm not too worried about therestaurant.
I don't think.
I don't go to wineryrestaurants.
Yeah, you know I go to thecellar doors, I may eat at the
(10:10):
restaurant if I.
You know, I'm hungry at thetime, which is kind of all the
time, but I don't go to the.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, I'm not sure you are representative of a
general consumer.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
Although a few years ago they did have an amazing
chef, I think Matt Stone, Ithink, was his name.
Okay, so for me it was a bit ofa go-to destination Oak Ridge
Restaurant but I don't know thatI could name the chef now.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Well, I think let's tie up that.
Let's move to anotherdepressing story before it gets
light.
De Borderly was in theAustralian this week talking
about how things are tough andthey're ripping up vines.
Meg, is this anything new?
Or is this just a continuationof what we've been talking about
for a while now?
Speaker 2 (10:53):
It's nothing new.
We've been reading about thisfor ages.
In the Riverland, the Riverina,you know, rutherg glenn, no
one's people aren't drinkingthose ten dollar big warm inland
wines, and we know that.
And that's why I keep sayingthe whole industry needs a
bloody restructure, yeah, and wejust have to bite the bullet.
And it'd be really good ifthere was some government bloody
(11:14):
money, some subsidy for vinepulling to actually work out
what is what we can repurposethat land for so the farmers can
make a coin, and it can't bealmonds because they take too
much water.
So, no, it's not really anynews, but the number of phone
calls I got about this was likeoh my God, because they
associate deborts with the Yarra.
(11:36):
Yeah, and I was just like no,it's not the Yarra?
Speaker 1 (11:38):
No, it's all the same .
Read the article um it's.
It's the warming land regionswhat always fascinate like the
thing that people need torealize about wine is that if
there's a trend in, say, beer,and people start drinking pale
ale instead of IPA, the beermakers just start making pale
ale.
Like they can respond toconsumers like that.
(11:58):
Our issue is that, meg, if aviticulturalist has a cab sav
planted and no one's drinkingcab sav, how long would it take
to take out the cab sav replantand how long before it's viable
enough that he can be sellingquality Pinot Noir grapes or she
(12:19):
that he can?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
be selling quality Pinot Noir grapes, so it will
cost you.
Someone in the era actuallyestimated that it was going to
cost him $30,000 a hectare topull out some Cabernet and
replant with, I think, PinotGris, whatever it was.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
And part of that is that's not the actual cost, but
it's the opportunity cost.
So you can't sell that fruitand then you're waiting for
three years.
So that's three years.
You can't be selling that fruitand then you've got to wait for
it and the Pinot Gris.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
So once you plant these new vines, it takes three
to five years before they growfruit or before they grow
quality fruit.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Oh, before they grow fruit Three years before they
grow fruit, or before they growquality fruit, oh, before they
grow fruit Three years beforethey grow fruit.
Oh my gosh.
You might get first crop offthree years if you can get it up
to the wire fast enough, yeah.
And then that relies on waterand in these inland regions
you're not going to do that.
So if you don't get it up tothe wire, it could be up to five
years before you get it there,and your first crop's always
serviceable, but it needs to beblended away and it's usually
(13:21):
really small, yeah.
So five years, you may startmaking some money, that's so
this is to the point of it,right.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We and and these articles always say hopefully
people start appreciating bigger, rich reds again and no, yeah,
I'm cynical about that butthat's not the point.
Speaker 2 (13:46):
We're drinking less.
It's not, it's not theirpreference, so we're drinking
less.
So we have to say to ourselvesthe industry has to be smaller
globally yeah poor, those pulledout.
What was it?
Eight, 14,000 hectares orsomething.
Yeah it.
Just we just have to shrink howmuch we're producing.
We're not going to find abigger market.
No, you know, the population ofthe world is not getting bigger
(14:09):
.
Yeah, china is never going tobe as big as it is now.
In fact, india's bigger thanChina, yeah.
So yeah, we just have to.
Everyone in the industry sayswe just have to produce less.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
All right.
Well, onto something a bit lessupsetting.
Here's our good news.
We have a couple of investmentstories in the industry.
Now we do talk about the bigones because they're the ones
that you know hit the newspapersand stuff, but also they are an
indication of what's happeningin the wider industry.
But so the Vinarki who we spokeabout they sound like a like a
(14:47):
old school rock band haveinvested.
They've said that they'reinvesting a hundred million in
South Australia winemakingoverhaul.
That's a huge amount.
So there must be some kind ofpromise in the wine industry if
they're doing this I wonder howmuch of that is redundancies no,
(15:08):
no, no.
Um overhaul, no, no, including a100 million.
No, they're saying they'reinvesting it.
They're not saving it.
They're investing 100 millionin two winemaking hubs.
Oh, and the closer of cooselling salad doors yeah, yeah,
what they're investing in.
Two, okay, one 30 30 milliondollar roll and flat
(15:30):
redevelopment will focus onadvanced viticulture and
high-end wine techniques, whileberry estates, already the
largest winery in southernhemisphere, has received more
than 70 million to further scaleup packaging, warehhousing and
winemaking capabilities.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Which means all the other little wineries that they
were working with and that theyown will be shut and everything
will be shipped to.
Very much the treasury modelback from the 1990s, the Mildara
Blast model.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
So, yes, I was trying to make it lighthearted in here
, wow.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
That's what I suspect , because that's what happened.
That's rough.
You know, when mildara blaststarted buying out wineries, um,
what they did is theyconsolidated bottling.
So they said, okay, what you dois, you don't.
Um, we have one bottling line.
It might be in south australia.
We're not going to send it toyour little local winery down
the road.
You're now going to put it in atanker and you're going to send
it out to us.
So it's all going to beconsolidated into one.
(16:20):
And Roland Flat, that's amassive, massive, massive site.
Oh, I did a vintage there, didthey not?
They couldn't sell.
They tried to sell the vineyard, but they couldn't, didn't sell
the winery or they didn't sellthe brand, or well, anyway,
there was some.
They tried to get rid of it.
Yeah, roland Flood's enormousyeah.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, so it looks like they're moving winemaking
from, like, st Hallett.
They'll leave the St Hallettcellar door, but they're going
to do all the winemaking in theone place.
So redundancy, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Oh, okay, yeah, I mean you're looking at Treasury
in Nuriupda.
I mean, the number of brandsthat come out of that winery is
just phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Okay, cheery news.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Moving on.
Let's see if we can turn thisone negative too.
Okay, treasury has justannounced 15.
So Treasury who own Penfolds,most notably, but also a bunch
of well-known Australian winebrands has just announced $15
million investment intospecifically low and no alcohol
(17:29):
wines.
And they are so sure about thisnew technique.
They are in the newspapers.
The headlines are sayingthey've cracked the code.
They've cracked it.
Low alcohol used to taste bad,not anymore.
Like no alcohol used to tastebad, not anymore.
They say they've cracked it.
They've got a new technique,they've invested $15 million in
it and they've patented it.
Is this at least a sign thatthe wine industry is evolving
(17:55):
and investing still?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Evolving?
Yes, I don't think it's a newtechnology.
Remember we watched that videoon the guy.
He said that his dad had thisamazing technique of being able
to ferment all the sugar out todryness in a wine.
I suspect it's some sort ofform of reverse osmosis, plus
growing the grapes like thegeese and wines that we have
from new zealand.
They, they do a combination andthat they're actually they're
(18:19):
low alcohol, but then why wouldthey patent it if it's just
reverse osmosis?
No, it will be somethingsimilar technology, but there's
obviously some significantchange.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
I don't know if we've ever spoken about reverse.
Can you quickly?
How does that work?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Does everyone know osmosis?
Probably not.
So say, I've got a really saltysolution on the left-hand side
and a less salty solution on theright-hand side and I've got a
membrane in between.
The salt will migrate becauseit wants to equalize.
So reverse osmosis is sort ofthe same.
We're basically taking thealcohol out of the wine and the
(18:57):
wine keeps passing through andthen we put.
We take the alcohol back and wecan put back the amount of
alcohol that we need to put intoit.
It's basically just, it's analcohol removal system.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
So it's basically just passing through.
It's too scientific to try andexplain.
And if you don't understandosmosis, it's reverse.
It's the reverse of wow, it'sthe reverse of osmosis.
Wow, it is the reverse ofosmosis.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Wow, meg Treasury has announced one of the first
things that they're making withthis.
Have you seen the new productthat's going to be launched?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Moscato.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
It's called Sorbet.
Now these sorbet wines, Meg,are going to come in like mango
and, and very flavor and stuffit's not wine.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
This is a flavored wine based product.
So, yeah, it might taste better, but it's not de-alcoholized
wine.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
So I'm sorry, you're just putting a little bit of
makeup on what could be fairlyordinary wine maybe we need to
get a a statement from Treasuryto suss out a bit about this
process, but it is interestingto see this lower alcohol trend.
But yeah, Austin, jump in.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Sorry.
Yeah is it true or at least Iread something that now the
second highest selling type ofbeer is non-alcoholic in the
world.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Don't know, okay, yeah, I don't know about that.
I know that mid-strength sells.
I think mid-strength sellsbetter than full strength.
Now, there you go.
But yeah, yeah, no.
So beer, it's so ingrained inbeer and and we are just not
doing good enough in winebecause we can't make it taste
good.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
No, because if we take the alcohol, it it's
fucking juice, like seriously,all right, we need to chat, I
would, I will.
I will dig deeper on thistreasury thing because,
seriously, I'm sorry, that isnot wine.
I can make a low alcohol winebased product.
I can make a seltzer just byadding some water, and if I had
(20:58):
flavor, I mask all the dilution,so it doesn't really matter.
So $15 million is not a lot.
I want to see what their winetastes like with no flavouring
added to it.
All right, because we're notallowed to add flavour to wine.
This is the problem.
The law states that we can'tadd flavour to wine.
(21:19):
So that would be in terms ofand call it wine.
So, say, the passion fruitflavour that you get in
Sauvignon.
We can't add that.
And so if we could do that, ifit was actually extracted from
the grape and from the originalwine, you know, we might be able
to do it.
But yeah, let's wait and see.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
Why is that different , though, from, I guess, like
non-alcoholic beer?
Do you consider it the samething where you don't consider
that a beer because it lacks thealcohol, or is the process
similar enough that….
Speaker 2 (21:52):
A lot of beer flavours aren't based on the
fruit.
That's the thing.
It's actually based on themalting process and the hops
that you put in.
It's not based on the fruit andyou've only got the grape to
work on to give the flavour andsome of the fermentation esters.
And there is some fermentationby-products in beer, like
(22:13):
dimethyl sulfide, which we hatein wine but is actually a good
thing in beer.
So they're adding their flavourwith hops and also with yeast.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Sorry.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
So look, the last thing I want to talk about is
this Wine Australia campaignthat's just been released.
I think, before we go into whatit is, let's give a framework
for how Wine Australia works.
So, meg, where does WineAustralia get their funding and
what are the things they use itfor?
Speaker 2 (22:43):
So we all pay a producer's levy for the number
of grapes that we produce.
It's just something that we doand that goes to the federal
government, and then theyapportion that to Wine Australia
, basically, and otherpromotional bodies Well, not
promotional bodies, but a bit toAustrade.
It's to help us do business.
So Austrade's been around foryears.
(23:04):
It's Wine Australia, sorry, hasbeen around for years.
It was probably most famous inthe 1980s when they sent an
incredible woman called HazelMurphy to the UK and she took
with her this concept ofsunshine in a bottle, which is
what they were selling to the UK, and we just saw Australian
wine absolutely boom in the UKit worked.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kind of I used to therepercussions of it.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I worked for a company and we were the were the
testers for quick savesupermarkets, quick saves now
summerfeld, quick save with a kclassy anyway.
Every monday I would have likedozens and dozens and dozens of
bottles of wine that I wouldhave to go through and taste
before they were released fromthe warehouse to say that they
(23:51):
were okay.
And we had one calledbarramundi chardonnay.
And do you remember kendonefrom the 1980s?
Okay, google it.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
I wasn't around in the 1980s, it's um, bright blue,
pink.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Sydney harbour bridge flowers.
Olivia, newton john had bigjumpers like that awesome.
It was a kendone label, yeah,and it and it had the Sydney
Harbour Bridge and I think therewas a cockatoo on it.
Yeah, it was called Barramundi,there was a cockatoo Shiraz and
did really well.
Wine Australia has been fairlywell funded.
Obviously, the more money theindustry makes, the more money
(24:27):
Wine Australia makes Now,because the industry is in a
little bit of the doldrums andwe're crushing less Wine
Australia gets less.
It's a user pay system, so wepay.
They also run our exporting.
So all the laws and our labelintegrity program.
Yeah lobbying, advocacy,everything, but a big remit of
them is to do marketing nationaland international events.
(24:50):
Now, yes, there's beenrepercussions about the sunshine
in a bottle and the most recentcampaign was Made Our Way,
which I really loved, and theyreally dug into the stories of
winemakers.
It was all very gritty andgrainy and they didn't just
focus on the big wineries, theyfocused on smaller wineries.
But the people who had storiesand they put great campaigns.
(25:11):
They put great campaigns.
They've instituted the A1, soit's an educational program, so
you can actually do the courseand then you become a nominated
educator of Australian wine andpeople in China particularly
love that because they loved apiece of paper and a certificate
.
And I can teach you aboutAustralian wine because I've
(25:32):
done my A1 course and it isbrilliant, obviously.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
That is.
That's very cool, that part ofit.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
They were really big in Japan in the 1990s and then
took because Japan was boomingfor us, took the money out of
Japan and into China and closedthe office in Japan and the
Japanese were not happy.
If any of you know history,japan and China haven't had a
great political history.
And I was in Japan pre-COVIDand they were just saying why do
(26:00):
we not have an Australian wineand wine Australia office here?
Why is there no one herepromoting the wines?
It's absolutely ridiculous.
You had such a great presence,you were doing such great things
and then obviously, when Chinaclosed, they started to move
back towards Japan and Japan wasa little bit well, fuck you for
there.
But they're doing some goodstuff in Japan and Korea.
They're doing.
(26:21):
They do road shows, so theChina road show.
They do one through SoutheastAsia, so they're doing Thailand,
vietnam.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
So there's a lot in there very mid.
And then I have another framingquestion for you as president
of Wine Yarra Valley.
You run one of theseassociations like a small scale
one.
How easy is it to please everywinery when you make a campaign?
All of your members oh it'simpossible, yeah, it's
(26:49):
impossible.
So I think let's get into it,just framing things.
This new campaign is calledWe've Got a Wine for that, and
what it is is.
It's basically a series ofscenarios a backyard barbecue, a
night out with mates, datenight, dinner party, I don't
know, looking over the beach,all these things, all these
(27:11):
pictures, and it says we've gota wine for that.
Drink Australian wine.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
It is really important for us going into
these less mature markets toshow people how to drink wine.
In Singapore we went to thisbougie bloody wine bar.
The good thing about Singaporeis the wine prices are expensive
on the retail shelf but they'rethe same price basically in a
restaurant.
So, you may be paying $150 for aChablis, but you'd be paying
(27:36):
that if you're sitting in yourhotel room.
Anyway, we were sitting there.
We were sitting outside.
It's 35 degrees Celsius.
We had to ask for an ice bucketand these are Europeans running
this place.
They had like rillette andsaucisson and all of the fat in
the rillette was just runningout because of the heat and it's
just like, oh, this is not howI would be serving my wine, but
(27:58):
showing people how to use wineis the key.
It's a domestic campaign.
Yeah, this is what I find sostrange, because we know.
Maybe we don't, maybe Gen Zshave no idea.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
My reaction when I first looked at it was this is
general, like this feels sogeneral, like it's not giving me
a selling proposition for thewine itself.
But then you look further intothe campaign and what they're
actually trying to do is retaincurrent wine drinkers.
So they're saying that winedrinkers are leaving and they
(28:35):
are trying to remind people howgood all these occasions are
with the wine, or set anoccasion like a festival, and
they're like you could have awine and that would be awesome.
The next thing, and and but.
So when I thought this is toogeneric in my head there's not a
specific proposition I broughtmyself back to Wine.
Australia has so many wineriesthey're trying to please.
(28:57):
The other thing is this is acampaign that is sector led,
which is kind of interesting initself.
So we're not going to see anypaid campaigns on TV like we
might've in the past.
We're not going to see any paidmedia behind this.
This is just something thatWine Australia is putting
forward and in a time wherestaff is tough, people might not
(29:21):
be able to have a marketingperson, they might not be able
to hire a marketing team, theymight struggle to create their
own assets.
Wine Australia is giving allthese assets and they're saying
just pop your own logo in andjust pop your own bottle in, and
here's some stuff you can use.
That's one thing is it's it'spotentially helping wineries
that can't afford their ownmarketing.
And the second thing is maybe acampaign like this, if we are
(29:46):
united as an industry and abunch of wineries are going to
use it, it will have that effectlike a bigger effect, because
we're going to have more touchpoints.
I do wish that there was aflagship media program
supporting it, because I just amnot sure individual wineries
can get a momentum.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
And again are we promoting wine Australia.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
No, we're promoting Australian wine Right.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
But you need to plant that in a region.
Why?
Because it's all just, it isgeneric, it could all be the
same.
Yeah, if it doesn't, you knowand I'm not saying that only the
premium regions are the onlyregions the Riverland could have
(30:36):
its own.
You know, we've got a wine forthat.
We've got Aglianico, forexample, or Sagratino, or
whatever.
Yeah, but again it's got to goback to the region and I know
that Wine Australia's job is notto promote the regions.
They work closely with all ofthe regional associations to do
cross promotions, yeah, buttheir job is not to promote each
(30:57):
of those individual regions.
That's a job's a job of theassociation of the region.
But I just, I don't, I don'tknow they.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
yeah, look, give it a go okay, I, I've asked the
people, so I put it out there onthe podcast, instagram today
and went the people, the people.
We are so deep in the industrywe know so much about, why we
want to know about wine.
I'm like, are we thinkingdifferently to everything else,
to everyone else?
Um, one of the first responsesI got back was you know, brendan
(31:26):
Rubnick, the wine animal.
He had, um, some fighting words.
He says it doesn't make me wantto buy Australian wine in the
slightest.
He wants to see the peoplebehind wine farmers, winemakers
and stuff.
I, um, I understand that and Ithink there's definitely a
portion of people and honestly,that is a classic technique for
(31:47):
one showing the people behind it, and we see it a lot in
anything agricultural.
We see it in like cheese andstuff.
Yeah, yeah, peas.
Um, I like, I do actually likethat it's occasion-based.
We're tapping into the consumerrather than just talking about
ourselves.
We're talking about them.
Um, interestingly, um, someonesaid it makes me think about
(32:11):
australian wines as an optionfor occasions I might not
normally drink wine at, forexample, at festivals.
I would never me think aboutAustralian wines as an option
for occasions I might notnormally drink wine at, for
example, at festivals, I wouldnever even think about drinking
wine, but now it's going throughmy mind well, you can't get
glass into festivals.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
That's one of the often one of the problems as
well.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Meg, it's they.
They serve it in plastic.
Does that upset you plasticcups?
But they can't.
So you can't take it in.
Well, they sell it to you.
You can't take it in, well,they sell it to you.
You can't take in your ownstuff.
I don't know.
You go to, you think, an oldschool festival.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, no, I mean, those were the days, but no,
these days you're buying Okay,so it's all served in plastic.
I don't care if it's served inplastic seriously.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Okay.
So someone else who is clearlyinto wine has the exact same
point as you.
She thinks that there should beterroir-specific messaging that
positions Australian wines as adistinct category within the
broader landscape.
But interestingly, the peoplewho message back and when I
messaged a few friends whoaren't in the wine world, they
(33:13):
are way more likely to say yeah,like it.
It's making me think you knowwhat that?
That wine camping looks nice.
It makes me want to buy a winecamping.
This is really interesting.
Hannah, my mate, said it makesher think that she doesn't think
enough when she's in store,whether it's Australian or
(33:34):
international when she looks ata wine.
And she said, looking at allthese images saying specifically
promoting Australian wine madeher go.
Next time I'm in a store I'mgoing to just check that the
wine's Australian, because I dowant to support local.
So there you go.
There's some differentperspectives I think we're going
to hear a lot about.
I just I do honestly feel forone australia whenever they let
(33:56):
out anything.
I know there's just so muchopinion and everyone feels
entitled to all their opinionsbecause they're all like we pay
our levies and blah, blah, blahyeah, and look, they're
literally it's one guy.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yeah, so it's it is.
They obviously use agencies andthings.
But yeah, look, if there is, ifit's sector-led and there's
good communication with theregional associations to get
behind it and maybe do acampaign with them, then why not
?
But I don't think.
(34:29):
I just don't think the YarraValley is going, a premium
region is going to go.
We're going to warn for them.
Yeah, I think you know it tookus years to come up with cool by
nature in the yarra valley.
Yeah, so I don't think we'regoing to change in your logo
anytime soon, but yeah, will itwork?
I don't know.
If you say that customers,consumers, are looking at it in
(34:52):
a positive way, then I am wrong.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
It's.
Yeah, I think it's.
You're right, it's not theluxury consumers that we are
used to talking to, it is your$15 wine consumers.
One last thing that I want tosay, which is just so funny
because I was talking about thisin my group chat this morning,
jess.
You know, jess, she's veryfunny and she had a couple of
(35:16):
ideas for how we could actuallyrun a campaign to promote
Australians drinking Australianwine.
Her first tagline was lua, yeah, nah.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
Eh, problem is most people wouldn't know how to
pronounce the lua.
Yes, cute, and think of it likeon a picture of Kath and Kim or
something.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, problem is most people wouldn't know how to
pronounce the Loire yes, cute,and think of it like on a
picture of Kath and Kim orsomething.
The second one this one camefrom Chat Trip, which, I'm not
going to lie, I just startedexploring it because I thought
that was hilarious.
What about no, rhone?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
No worries, Vaudo hell, no, oh God, austin, austin
, thank you, vaudo hell no Vodo,Hell no, austin, austin, vodo,
hell, no Champagne, yes, please,sorry, no, I think, yes, no, I
mean obviously not.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
We're not doing that.
People don't even know whatLoire is.
I'm making a joke.
You don't have to take it soseriously, meg Imports while
they are heavy on wine lists,account for what?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
13% of the total wine ?
No, between 6% and 10% of totalwine in Australia.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So this campaign is not worried.
I don't think they're superworried about people choosing
international over Australian.
They're worried more aboutdeclining.
But why?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
is it declining Because they're dying?
The boomers were the biggestconsumers of wine.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
No, but people, even Gen Z, are drinking less wine.
No, but we know that.
Comparative to when previousgenerations were at the same
stage of life.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
Yes, but we know that 37 is when is peak wine
drinking and buying age.
So that's what millennialsstarted improving when they all
hit 37.
No, but Now they're in their40s.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
But so, but there were more millennials drinking
at that point, yes, yeah, solike it is a trend that is
wearing Also, but also are thereless Gen Zers we want.
No, they're just all healthy,meg.
They're so boofing, they're not.
There's all this.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
I have two in my house.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
I know you have personal Gen Zers, but I have
research and there is this hugephenomenon where, instead of
going to the pub, they stay homeand they do their game.
That's why less people are inpubs now.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, my kids go to the pub.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Well, your kids are cool, they are.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
Although I did try and throw out the Trivial
Pursuit from like 1995, andLucas said no, you can't,
because he's really into Russianhistory.
It's got all these questionsabout the USSR, which doesn't
exist anymore.
I said no one cares about thatand he goes it's going to be a
great drinking game.
So he's pulled it back out ofthe rubbish.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Anyway, we should talk.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Okay, we'll wrap it up.
Hopefully one of these days, inOne News, we'll bring you some
good news, but look for now, I'mactually really interested in
what your take is.
So if you haven't already sentme your take on this campaign,
please send it to me.
I'm interested to read all ofthem.
Yeah, um, but we'll be backwith you next week.
(38:24):
We're going to look at somesparklings and then we're going
to look at Barbera, and untilthen, enjoy your next glass of
wine and drink well.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.