Holiday Episode | Finding Light in Loss: A Positive Approach to Grief in 2025

This is a special holiday series we will be doing every Tuesday during the holiday season. We know the holidays are a hard time for grievers and wanted to create a space to share, learn and vent with each other during what can feel like a not so jolly season.

This episode discusses starting 2025 with a a more positive outlook on your grief.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Two Girls with Grief podcast, the holiday season edition, our very last

(00:19):
episode of this holiday series.
We are your host, I'm Kendall Rodgers.
And I'm Rachel Dwyer.
This is a special holiday series that we do every Tuesday during the holiday season.
We know that the holidays can be a very hard time for Grievers and we wanted to create a
space to discuss all those tough holiday topics.
We want to say, first of all, congrats to everyone for getting through either your first

(00:41):
holiday or your second or your third.
It's been my sixth, eighth and tenth and it still feels hard without them during the
holidays.
So we wanted to just send love to everyone that has had a hard holiday season.
So we decided we wanted to end and start the year in a positive note, which aligns with
our last December challenge to envision how you want your 2025 to be.

(01:04):
Kendall and I have been very proactive with our grief this year and we wanted to share
what we did and how you can do something similar with yourself and make positive steps with
your grief in 2025.
So Rachel, what made you decide how to handle your grief differently in 2024?
The start of a new year always feels so big, whether it's like we're going to have a bunch
of New Year's resolutions or we're going to be like a brand new person in 2024.

(01:29):
And I've never been a huge fan of New Year's resolutions because I feel like you're kind
of creating like this, I'm going to be a whole new person with like this list of 10 things
and then you end up not doing most of them because I think they're kind of like wishlist
rather than what's realistic or what you need.
So I wanted to look at 2024 as like I have been letting my grief control my life and

(01:57):
I have just kind of rolled the punches and I've been very reactive to my grief, but I
haven't been proactive to my grief.
And I really sat down with myself and thought I need to be doing more with my grief.
I need to take better care of myself overall and my grief and it's such a big part of me
that I hidden in a box and don't talk about and don't share and feel like it's something

(02:21):
I should be ashamed of, but I really shouldn't.
It's a huge part of my story.
So that was a big just kind of a waking moment for me that I realized like I'm not doing
enough for myself and this year I need to do something different.
And that kind of propelled me to doing a bunch of different things, but it just hit me all
at once, but what about you?

(02:43):
Throughout 2024, I was realizing that I am confronting a lot of my grief and I am proud
of I don't want to say how quickly I've gotten through my grief, but I realized how lonely
I was and how lonely this road is.
Obviously I leaned into my grief.
I'm not very scared of it.
I'm okay with the hardships that come with it, but it occurred one time at a book club

(03:04):
meeting where me and some other women were talking about all our losses and we all had
lost our parents and I felt so much unification, so much camaraderie with these other women
talking about our grief.
We're all in tears and we're all laughing.
And then it occurred to me that I wanted more conversations like this and that happened

(03:24):
at a book club with women who were a little bit older than me, but I wanted to talk to
other people my age around the things that I'm dealing with currently.
And that led to the grief group that we're both in and then that led to this.
So it kind of just spiraled from one conversation, one open conversation around grief that led
to the rest of 2024 kind of opening up for me.

(03:48):
Before we move to the next talking point, I wanted to bring up something that you said,
which is how lonely you felt.
And I think a lot of people are afraid to admit that they feel lonely, that they're
afraid to admit that they either feel lonely on the journey that they're going through
personally or just with friends or connecting with people or just feeling like you have

(04:09):
a place in this world.
And I think when you're grieving, the people that made you feel at home, the people that
made you feel so comfortable in your life, when you lose them, it changes everything.
It's a whole other level to accept how lonely that makes you feel because the people that
were your home are gone and the people that represented so many things are gone.

(04:30):
I even have hated ever saying like, I'm lonely, but there's so many times that I felt that,
especially for many years, just with my grief experience alone and not talking to people
about it.
But for some reason, it was just so hard to say that out loud.
I feel lonely about X, Y, and Z. Did you have a hard time admitting to yourself that you
felt lonely?
Yeah, there's definitely a difference between feeling lonely and then wanting to be alone

(04:55):
because I will admit, I'm a little bit more introverted and being alone was something
I needed to process this grief.
But feeling lonely, a lot with what you said, you're losing people who made you feel at
home and you're going through these big emotions that you feel like you can't share with other
people.
It was such a surprise at book club to talk about our feelings of grief with these four

(05:18):
other women and that it's such a profound and perpetually existent feeling of heartbreak
all the time, this aching feeling that you're missing these people that removed the loneliness
feeling of like, how do I explain?
You're with other people you can hold hands with and they're feeling the same thing.

(05:42):
It's when that conversation happened, I felt so much less lonely.
I felt less lonely with these women talking about my feelings around grief, which led
me to think, oh, I'm not done dealing with these griefy feelings.
I know that's probably premature to say as every griever is like, oh yeah, you're going
to get over it eventually and me thinking four years that I was done with it to find

(06:05):
out through this podcast, I am not.
That conversation just, yeah, admitting the loneliness, but admitting that you have big
feelings around grief and you're scared to talk about it because this world isn't very
accepting of grief and death and loss and the feelings that come with that.
I'm so glad to have that one conversation.

(06:26):
I remember leaving that book club thinking, I need to find a support group.
I need to find other grievers that I can share these feelings with because it felt like a
weight was lifted off my shoulders.
I also, I can be very independent and I also can be, I don't say like reclusive, but I

(06:48):
enjoy my own company, or at least with me and my dog.
We have a grief book club, so obviously I love to read and I love crime shows and stuff.
I think it was very easy to rely on myself to keep myself company and also be like, I
can handle this grief on my own.
But I also think sometimes it stops you from making new connections or allowing new people

(07:12):
in.
I think we talked about it a lot too.
There's just so much transformation with friendships and stuff and I think I didn't realize how
lonely I made myself with my own friendships because I didn't talk about it.
So it created this big disconnect of like, they don't ask me about it, but also I never
talked about it to begin with.
So how are people going to feel comfortable to bring it up to me if I always made it seem
like everything was okay?

(07:34):
And I think when you rely so heavily on people that are no longer here, it also makes you
not want to rely on other people and kind of experience that loss.
So I think for me, I had to catch myself.
I still love a good cozy under my heated blanket reading a good book.
Obviously we talk about it all the time and I think you need those kind of reset and recharge

(07:55):
times for sure.
But this year, allowing myself to be open about my grief has brought so much new life
and joy to me that I didn't realize that I was missing.
By just talking about things and bringing myself to do the things that I said, oh, I

(08:16):
want to do, so I'm going to do it.
And it has opened me up to so many new friendships and new people that I feel like I connect
with so much more deeply.
I'm like, obviously like us, like I met you this year and there's so many different people
that come into my life that I'm like, oh, I feel so much better having these connections
and getting to know these people that I wouldn't have had before had I just kept going of I

(08:39):
can be self-reliant and I can be, you know, I don't have to rely on anyone or talk to
people about my grief.
It feels so much better that I don't do that anymore.
And I think different reading, relaxing, that stuff is different and you need that.
You don't need social all the time, but it feels so much better to have people to just
be like checking in about how your holiday's going and how are you doing and what are you

(09:04):
doing?
I don't think everyone thinks to ask those things.
To be fair, it's holiday season is busy, but we were texting a lot over the holidays and
just checking in and seeing how it's going.
I think that's so important to have and I didn't have that before.
Yeah.
You bring up a good point that culturally we have been trained, if not promoted and
encouraged to be independent with our grief and never taught that it's okay to rely on

(09:29):
other people emotionally.
I was told like the same language of like your grief is your problem and you pick yourself
up and this is something you deal with rather than seeking out a community, which there's
a lot of grievers out there.
Like I know, which is funny because I think we all feel like our grief is our own personal

(09:49):
hell.
Like we take that on so independently when in reality there's so many people out there
in the world going through various levels of loss and various levels of their grief.
And the fact that we should be kind of uniting, creating a network and community through this.
And this is something if I didn't realize how important community was going to be to

(10:12):
help me expedite the healing within my grief.
I didn't know that was going to be like a key to unlock so much for me until I kind
of changed that mindset of like, yes, like my grief is very personal and I'm still learning
about it and still trying to dissect it and figure out how to still be like a good person
through it.
Although it is hard when you've been trained, like you pull yourself up by your bootstraps

(10:35):
and this is your thing that you got to do.
I think the grief group has been amazing in that we're sharing these things and we're
all like, oh my God, I feel the same way.
Or hey, I've gone through this experience.
Have you tried this resource?
It's those things that really, like I said, it's just promoted my grief process so much

(10:55):
faster than I ever could have thought.
One person that we're friends with on TikTok, she posted about how she spent all of Christmas
in bed crying and she was just sad.
And I think she lost her mom more recently.
And even if you haven't, that's just a very natural response.
Family represents a holiday.
So when people are missing, the holidays just feel different and that is natural and that

(11:16):
is okay.
That is unfortunately just things change.
You don't walk into holidays the same way.
And there were so many nice comments of people understanding and getting it.
But there was one comment where this person commented under and said, that's such a waste
of your holiday Christmas.
You should be happy.
Like, your mom wouldn't want you to be laying in bed crying all day.

(11:37):
So I'm not one to usually reply to comments or to like fight because usually it's like,
it's a waste of time.
But I was just like, that is so unnecessary.
This person is sharing that she had a really hard Christmas and she cried because she's
missing her mom.
Why would you then say that your mom would be upset with you and you don't know her mom?
You don't know their situation.

(11:57):
And even if that is your thought, keep it to yourself.
That's not helpful in the moment.
I think I replied something like, no, her mom wouldn't want a random stranger telling
her how to feel about having to spend Christmas without her mom.
And I'm like, what the heck?
No, you cannot do this as somebody that is really having a bad time and you're saying

(12:18):
that.
And it was nice because there's other people that were like supporting her, like don't
say that.
And that similar thing happened on a video where I posted something about losing both
her parents and my sister.
Someone commented and I mentioned before, like, oh, God only gives the strongest soldiers
the toughest battles so they know that you can handle this.
And somebody commented and was like, why would you say that?

(12:40):
Don't say that to her.
She lost both her parents and sister.
Don't say that crap to her.
And I replied very nicely to that person just saying, you don't know if I'm religious, you
don't know anything about me.
And even if it's coming from a good place, that won't always land well unless you know
the person is in that same level of religion and belief to accept that kind of answer.

(13:02):
But I know for some people it would work.
But for me, I don't like hearing that.
And not that I'm not religious at all, but like that specific type of wording and things
doesn't sit well with me.
But I just thought it was so nice that someone commented, feeling like need to protect you
or like be kind.
And I think we've built such a great community of grievers that it's nice and people are

(13:24):
willing to step in for each other and call out something when it feels inappropriate,
where I feel like before you dealt with your grief alone and you didn't really share so
people didn't really know what to think or expect.
And I think the more people talk about it, not just us, that people will start to understand,
at least hopefully.
So that's really important to keep talking about it.

(13:45):
And I think that goes into our next question now, to get back to our second question.
So instead of having a New Year's resolution in 2025, what mindset do you think grievers
should have to head into the new year with a positive mindset?
Yeah, for one, if you're new to the grieving journey, just surviving the year is monumental

(14:08):
enough.
You do not need to set some pie in the sky type of goal for yourself if you're just trying
to get out of bed every day.
And maybe that's it.
Maybe it's just like getting out of bed and taking a shower.
And if that's what gets you through, hey, we applaud that.
For myself, I've never been quite the big resolution person because it makes me feel
bad if I don't complete it.

(14:30):
But finding a word or a mantra to carry you through the year, I think my word for 2025
is going to be like resiliency and carrying that through 2025 when I come across obstacles.
I think one goal, I know there's tons of people that make like 10 goals and they're going
to complete all these things and all these goals for different quarters of the year.

(14:51):
That's great for them.
I love that for them.
But for grievers, I think it needs to be rerouted differently, looking at your personal growth,
looking at your personal, what's going to get you through for yourself.
We can worry about the bigger goals later, but right now it's like what is going to carry
you, what's going to be your lifesaver through 2025?

(15:14):
Although grief is unfortunately something we do have to deal with, you can make it easier
on yourself.
It won't be easy on yourself though if you set 10 goals and then you're upset with yourself
that you don't reach them.
So I say bite-sized pieces, baby steps.
There's nothing wrong with that.
So I really like vision boards because I like visuals.
I like seeing the future.

(15:35):
I like brainstorming and Kendall and I, when she was here, we sat down and wrote down how
we wanted 2025 to look.
I think taking the time to do that and being really intentional is important.
I think for yourself personally, like Kendall said, when you write 10 things, oftentimes

(15:56):
it's unrealistic because you're just not going to change overnight.
Maybe it's like really need to focus on how one thing you want to change.
So whether it's like a vision board to just create this overall feeling of how you want
your year to look and how you want to feel, that's nice to do.
But also taking the time to dissect different things of yourself and how you want it to
look.

(16:16):
For your grief, you need to be really honest about what you're feeling and what has been
hindering you from moving forward and hindering you from feeling a little bit lighter with
your grief.
There's no cure for grief.
Nothing's going to fix it.
It's not just going to go away.
That love you had for them is always going to be there.
There's not like a fix for that, but you need to figure out how you can still live a beautiful

(16:41):
life despite all the cards you've been dealt, despite everything else that's happened to
you.
Like you still deserve to live a good life.
So you need to figure out what does that look like for you and what is just one thing that
you can fix for the year.
So for me, like I said, I just don't think I'm being proactive enough.
I'm just letting everything happen to me and I'm not doing enough.

(17:01):
And when I feel like every day just looks like the next and I'm not feel like I'm even
contributing anything positive to the world, it's like, how am I going to remember this
year?
How am I going to remember this time?
And it's like really a blur in so many ways in so many years where it is a blur and there
were happy moments and there were fun trips and I love to travel and all these things.
But so much as a blur when it wasn't like I was traveling and doing fun things because

(17:26):
I wasn't still taking care of myself.
And every day we get is lucky, every day that we get is valuable.
My sister didn't make it to her 30th birthday.
That's something that I have to always remind myself of like, she would want me to live
the fullest life.
She was my biggest cheerleader.
So short version is instead of the New Year's resolutions, decide one thing that you want

(17:47):
to do for yourself, for your grief, for the year.
That's like a positive thing because it's not just that one thing.
It'll affect you overall because your grief can really affect your relationships, your
health, your mindset, just your ambition.
It affects so many different things and you don't think about it.
And you could say like, I want to focus on my health overall with my grief.

(18:09):
And that could be like, how's it affecting my mind, my body, my spirit, all those things.
So you focus on a piece that you want to fix and that will help the rest of your life because
it really opens you up to healing and friendships and all these different things, which has
really happened for me and I think has really happened for you as well, Kendall, by just
opening yourself up and knowing that you still need to heal and there's still so much healing

(18:32):
to be done.
Yeah.
Well, for me, I think it's weird to have a New Year's resolution in the winter.
I know New Year's Eve happens in the winter, but if you live somewhere where it's really
cold and you still have to bundle up everywhere you go and it's not conducive to starting
a new habit, then hey, you don't need to tell anybody.
Just push it to the spring.
Like spring is a perfect time for a New Year's resolution.

(18:56):
Start new habits if it's easier to do it in the spring and not in the dead of winter where
you're still eating cozy foods or you don't want to go outside because it's freezing.
If it's easier for you to start new things in the spring because that's kind of the season
of new things and new beginnings, then you don't need to tell anybody.
It's a secret that could stay here.

(19:17):
Do that later on.
If right now you need to focus on just being internal and being cozied up by the fire and
under a blanket, whatever.
Do your thing.
I don't think we care.
Definitely listen to our... It's our last episode, I think.
Was it our book club or our last holiday episode where Kendall dives more into the yearly cycles

(19:38):
and how it cycles with your grief and it makes sense.
I live in San Francisco.
It is colder right now, but there's no snow or anything.
I'm a little bit jaded with seasons because I spend a lot of time in snow.
Even though I love the idea of snow, snow to me is magical, but I've never had to exist

(19:59):
in a snowy place or drive in snow, which I might have a different idea if it wasn't just
like, when it snows, it feels magical when I'm sitting in snow because I haven't experienced
it that much.
But I do definitely understand the thought process and how that works and how that might
be harder.
It's like when it's the dead of winter.
Yeah, and everything's frozen.
You're like, I don't even want to go outside.

(20:20):
I don't even want to do anything.
Yeah.
To me, it's like hot chocolate book type of weather.
So to feel like I'm going to eat healthy when it's like, no, I want warm, comforting foods.
It's like, I'm going to work out.
No, it's freezing outside.
I'm not going to make it to workout class or anything.
You're like, what am I supposed to do after work?

(20:41):
I just got off of work.
What am I supposed to do?
Although I do think because of winter solstice, the days are a little bit longer.
Yeah, a little longer.
I've noticed I've gotten about 30 more minutes of sun since that, so that's amazing.
But definitely I've been full of cozy vibes.
And yesterday I was so excited to sit down and read.

(21:02):
Kettle got me a book for Christmas, so I was going to sit down and read.
And then I turned on my water kettle, hot water kettle.
And then I went to go reach and I had no more hot chocolate.
And I was really actually devastated.
Girl, and I don't blame you.
I was like, how did I not notice that I was running low, that I only had like one left?
I was really like not mad at myself.

(21:22):
I was just like disappointed.
I was like, Rachel, why didn't you check for that?
Instacart that quick.
Yeah, I'm going to do that later.
But I've been enjoying like a peppermint hot chocolate.
A cure to a sad soul.
And it's just been an amazing thing that I've been like codependent on this holiday season.

(21:42):
And the fact that I was trying to do that last night, I was so disappointed in myself.
I was really judging myself hard.
I was like, this is what I want for comfort is this nice hot beverage under my heated
blanket.
So that was really upsetting.
But back to a good year.
Yeah, back to Mindsets in 2025.
Rachel, how can grievers switch their mindset?

(22:05):
And like we said, we were very proactive this year, but we haven't always been in the past,
we've been a little bit more reactive to our grief.
So what is your advice to our listeners on how they can be more proactive in 2025?
So for this, for changing your mindset, you really have to just be honest with yourself.
You see so many people response to they would want you to be happy.

(22:28):
And if your response is, don't say that to me, I can't be happy, all those things.
That is kind of, I think a good judge of where you're at with your grief.
Because I definitely didn't like to hear that for so many years because obviously, you want
life to feel good.

(22:48):
But nothing feels good when other people that you love are gone.
And people keep dying and people keep ending up in the hospital.
And you go through so many different things.
You see things that you never would have to see.
So someone telling you they would want you to be happy is like a slap in the face because
I wish I knew what happy felt like again.

(23:10):
I wish I knew how to feel those feelings.
It's not that I didn't feel any happiness during those times, but to feel that pure
happiness, it's really hard to feel when you're just missing people and kind of you're healing
from all of these really bad things happening.
And when you want to be helpful, the worst case scenario happens.

(23:30):
That is really hard to heal from.
That is such a mountain you have to climb where I want to feel happiness, I want to
enjoy it.
Like excitement for your life again.
I think that's something that we don't always think about being important.
You should be excited for your own life.
You should be excited for your future.
But sometimes you don't think about that anymore.
I definitely stopped thinking about the future for a long time because the future was so

(23:51):
easy for me before because I knew I had a support system.
I knew I could drop off my kids to my sister.
I knew my mom would be helping.
And even just like weddings sound shitty.
Like the thought of a wedding sounds really shitty.
And I don't think a lot of people say that.
Actually there's probably a lot more people that say that than say it out loud and you

(24:13):
hear people saying that because you think about it and you dream about how that day
is going to be.
But it looks so different than what you pictured.
That's like, would it even feel good anymore?
Like I don't know.
I still don't know.
But when you're feeling those things, it's still you're very in a reactive place.

(24:34):
Because I can say with my whole heart now, of course my family wants me to be happy.
Of course they want me to live a good life.
That's the simplest thing in the world to think.
Because of course they loved me so much.
They were my biggest cheerleaders.
They would not want me to be sad.
They would not want me to be not living my life to the fullest or reaching my full potential.

(24:56):
Of course that's what they would want.
I can picture it as clear as day now.
But it's hard when you're in that place.
So you really need to figure out how to get yourself to that place.
Because now if someone says it to me, I don't feel any ill will or reaction to that.
But I had to get myself to a place where I could accept that and know that my life is
still so important.

(25:17):
And I'm letting days waste away because things don't feel as important anymore.
Or I don't want to dream of my future anymore because I've been disappointed so much in
my future.
So a lot of it was just acceptance and being honest with myself.
And then being like, I do need to accept I'm lucky that I'm here and I'm lucky that I
get to live my life.

(25:38):
But that took a journey too.
And so changing your mindset is a lot of work.
Because you don't just get there overnight.
And it took me a long time to get there.
So the first is just like, you have to be honest with yourself and know that you want
2025 to be the best year for your grief that you've had yet.

(26:02):
And that can mean very different things for different people, right?
It could just be like finding excitement in your life or finding joy or finding new friendships,
whatever.
You want your life to feel less lonely because you've become so reliant on yourself because
of how grief can affect you.
You need to figure out what is the best thing for you for that.

(26:23):
But I don't know if you had those same kind of harsh feelings with what people said to
you if they said like your dad want you to be happy.
Yeah, I did.
And I had a lot of the same feelings you did as well.
And I know you and I have talked about this and feeling guilty when you felt happy.
I know you've been like, I don't kind of get that, but it's weird, especially because my

(26:45):
dad was an extremely happy guy.
He literally was such a bright person for me and other people.
And yet I felt guilty feeling happy without him.
But I had to rewire that in my head too, thinking he also would be in so much pain to see me
not enjoying life and not stretching outside my comfort zone or trying new things.

(27:10):
Like he didn't raise me to be that type of person.
So same thing thinking he would want to see me be the best version of myself despite losing
him because I truly thinking he might be in actual pain seeing me not live a beautiful
life to its fullest.
And I don't want to do that in his honor nor his legacy.

(27:32):
So yeah, I feel very similar along those lines as you did.
Same thing with all the words people tell you and you're just like, that's not helpful.
That's just like you're saying that to make yourself feel better, not really for my sake.
Which you can always say, hey, my heart is with you.
I'm so sorry you're going through this.

(27:53):
You don't have to say anything else if you don't know what to say to a griever.
You don't need to be telling them random shit.
It's not going to help.
Just be like, hey, my heart is with you.
It really sucks.
Where can I help?
What can I do for you?
How can I make this easier?
You don't need to be saying you're going through the worst battle to be a strong warrior type
of thing.

(28:14):
In regards to being more proactive for 2025, if you're listening to this podcast, I think
you're already doing that.
I think you're trying to find those steps to pull yourself out of that hole.
And that's worth celebrating within itself, consuming all these resources to try and help
you craft that mindset.
Because it is like a mental block at some point to have to remove for yourself and say,

(28:36):
I deserve better.
And the person I lost deserves to see me be the best form of myself I can be.
So if you're reading grief books, that's a great small step.
Listening to this podcast is a great small step.
Doing these small things.
I think one thing, if you're taking it into 2025, creating a list of your joys is one

(28:57):
very simple action you can do.
Keep it on your phone.
Keep it in your notes.
Have your list of joys.
Half the battle is just knowing what brings you joy.
Some people don't even know what brings them joy anymore because we're so focused on all
this additional mundane things.
Adulting.
Adulting.
Yeah.
We're so focused on the negative and we're so ridden with anxiety and depression.

(29:20):
Having that list, I think I call mine the glimmers list.
I got it from somebody.
They were saying like, instead of a list of triggers, things that kind of set you off,
whatever.
A list of glimmers instead, things that bring you joy, things that make you happy.
That could be a song.
That could be, for me, it was Britzing Perfume.
I love that little moment of smelling perfume for the first time.

(29:43):
If it's your Starbucks drink, I don't judge you.
Go ahead.
Do your thing.
These little things that, you know what?
If you can't think of one little small thing you're going to do in 2025, that should be
it.
Just create your list of joys.
We'll figure out the rest later, but start with that.
That's one that only you, the listener, can truly figure out.
We can't do that for you.

(30:05):
The glimmer list, Kendall posted one, I think, on our Instagram very early on when he first
started.
It is one of those things where as adults, we put a lot of our joy and the things that
we think are fun on the wayside and often think that's just for kids and that's just
for kids to experience.

(30:26):
It's like, as an adult, we have to do so much.
It's so expensive to just exist.
It's so much harder to make friendships.
It's so much harder to feel like you belong in any space.
There's just so many more difficulties of being an adult and growing up.
It's like, why are we taking away all the fun parts?
Why are we taking away these simple joys?
Because we feel like we're too adult for them.

(30:47):
We can't do that.
Throw the damn snowball.
I wish I could do that.
Buy the glitter pin.
Who cares?
Yeah.
I'm still obsessed with stickers.
I have since I was a child.
Costco used to sell these huge packs of stickers, Costco-sized packs of just stickers.
I loved that so much.
And I still, when I travel, I will always buy a sticker and I buy a patch.

(31:09):
And so I have a patch jacket and I put the patch on my jacket.
Well, me and Kendall ended up with a cool patch.
Oh yeah.
I love that.
Which was here.
We went to the Marshall store, which is one of my favorite places in...
I consider it Tobolus Bay, but it's in Marshall, California.
But they have really great crab sandwiches.

(31:29):
Kendall had oysters for the first time.
And the crab sandwich for the first time, actually.
And it was really delicious.
And I wanted to get a patch.
And thankfully I asked because they had hats with patches on it, but the patches just fell
off.
And so they just gave it to us.
We were like, score.
And it felt just very like Kismet.
I don't know if that's the right word, but I just, because I asked, because I love patches

(31:51):
and I've talked to Kendall so much about my beloved patch jacket.
And they just gave us two patches.
And they're cute.
I suddenly attached to my jacket.
But I was so joyful in that moment.
I'm like, oh my God, this just worked out.
It was just a cool thing.
And now me and Kendall have this matching patch from going on.
With an oyster on it.
Yeah, from one of our adventures when she was here.

(32:13):
So I think stuff like that, it's like that brought me so much joy.
Going to new places brings me joy.
I love trying new places.
And I love bringing friends to places that I love and seeing that like it was so fun
just to like have Kendall try those things and go to one of my favorite places.
Stuff like that is just like, it brings me so much joy.
Why not focus more on those things that bring me joy and bring me excitement?

(32:34):
But as adults, we just like don't focus on that.
That is one of the biggest travesties of adulting with grief that even becomes lower and lower.
So like Kendall said, focus on your glimmers lifts, call it your joy list, whatever you
want.
That makes me happy lists.
Because sometimes you just really do forget because you don't focus on your own happiness.
You know, you're focusing on everyone else's happiness.

(32:54):
You might just be focusing on existing.
But what is the point of existing if you aren't really living and feeling the joy and happiness
and appreciating the moments?
Because it's not all about being happy all the time.
There's so many hardships, but the happiness feels so much better when you know that you're
focusing on it and that you're getting through the hard times.

(33:16):
You know, it makes it feel so much bigger.
So do what Kendall said and create a list.
Because if you don't know, you should definitely find something and figure it out.
Try stuff out.
If you don't know, try something to make yourself happy.
So back to our original conversation.
What have you found most helpful that you've done this year that you haven't done previous

(33:39):
years with your grief?
I don't recommend this to everybody.
You have to know what Rachel said earlier in the last question.
You have to be honest with yourself and you need to be really self-aware about your grief.
I knew with my grief, I needed to figure out everything about it, especially about the
unknown of death to help me conceptualize and begin to process it.

(34:03):
So it's kind of why we joke on the podcast that I read more of these like darker books
about death and Rachel reads like these beautiful warm stories about grieving and then becoming
like stronger and finding love.
Part of that is because for everything I know, death is this big unknown mystery.
We don't know what's on the other side.

(34:24):
And I know people will have like a faith-based answer regardless of religion.
But that said, I needed to understand the process of like death and dying.
And I don't recommend this to everybody.
This might be more harmful for you and I recognize that.
But for some people like me, if you know that's what you need is to explore the science of

(34:47):
it, it might be helpful to understand that.
I read a lot of books at the beginning of the year around multiple things in regard
to dying and death and the body afterwards.
That helped me rationalize these things that I didn't know before because I was willing
to learn about it and lean into it and willing to confront that weird feeling you get when

(35:11):
the grief feels scary.
And I don't want that grief feeling to feel scary to me.
I lean into it.
I try to explore it.
Never at like a detriment of and I think if that causes you pain, don't do this.
This is not a recommendation for everybody.
I know a ton of people in my life that is not the path they want to take and that's

(35:31):
okay.
I know it's what's for me, but me learning about it helped conceptualize it.
It's helped me be able to talk about it more openly.
I know more random facts about the science of dying now, which is weird, but it really
has helped me understand more about the process of what my dad must have gone through and

(35:53):
not be so scared of something I don't understand.
So that is a very niche answer for a very niche group of people.
If you think that's your path, that's great.
We do a lot of book clubs based around a lot of weird things.
I think if you join our book club, all the nonfiction books, all the weird memoirs will

(36:13):
be from me.
All the warm stories around falling in love and exploring grief will be Rachel's pick.
But if that's something you're interested in going through, I invite you to join us
on our book club podcast and explore those conversations with us.
Because I think reading books not only has taught us to learn more about this process,

(36:35):
but has invited more conversations around grief and death from just reading books, which
is beautiful.
Rachel and I have exchanged so many conversations we've never even thought to talk about because
a book brought it to our attention.
Yeah, and it's been another source of healing and confronting feelings.

(36:56):
And I don't think if you just say like grief book club or just a book club, I don't think
you necessarily think how deep we get into these conversations about the books because
so many things bring up things that happened to our own personal grief and make us reflect
and make us discuss it and make us be open about it.
And I think that's really important.

(37:17):
And it's been actually a very healing thing and another source of healing.
And I wouldn't necessarily like pick all the books that Kendall chooses, like just as my
own choice.
But I'm glad I read them.
You know, they wouldn't be my first pick because when you look at The Beach Read or Home for
the Holidays or like another book that I love that deals with your the seven year slip,

(37:42):
a lot of them have similar themes.
And it's not that those books don't have the griefy moments where you really feel it and
connects with it.
But I do love that sandwich of like, oh, there's a happy part or there's like flirting or there's
great banter, great conversation and that connection because that's what I lean into.
But reading a book like Crying in an H Mart was completely different experience than that.

(38:07):
But it also brought up so many different memories of experiences and just memories of my mom
because my relationship with my mom was very different than her relationship in the book.
But just there's so much focus on food and culture and connection and just like the loss
of losing her mom, that felt very real and connected.

(38:27):
And I think in many ways, kind of, I would say once my mom passed away, I think a piece
of me broke where I was just like, this cannot be happening.
Like what the hell?
Like I was really upset.
I mean, and rightfully so.
It's like, how the hell can I also lose my mom after everything?
So that book really made me confront a lot of feelings that I wasn't dealing with because

(38:52):
it was like a piece I didn't even want to think about.
It was just like the last straw.
Like this can't be something that's happening.
So I think that book was very therapeutic in so many ways.
That was really helpful.
I did cry a lot.
Yeah, so did I.
I think that's the book that I've cried the most out of any of the books.
Yeah, that was a very griefy, griefy book.

(39:14):
Maybe the only book I've cried reading so far from this grief book club, but it also
was useful and I wouldn't have chosen it to read it on my own had I really known.
I heard other people recommend it.
People in a grief group recommended it.
But in my head, it was like crying in H Mart, very relatable feeling.
I've cried in Seafood City, which is the Filipino version of H Mart.

(39:37):
Shout out Seafood City.
I was just like that image alone, I was like, oh my god, I relate to that.
I have cried in Seafood City because someone answered the phone just like my mom did and
I didn't realize.
I forgot how my mom would answer the phone.
And so there I was just crying through Seafood City, trying to find Filipino food that I
wanted to make or learn how to make and get excited about ingredients.

(40:01):
But I was just like crying and walking through the aisles.
And so when I saw that title, I was like, I really relate to that.
But I didn't realize how deep of a hole she was going to take me with that book.
But it was very therapeutic and it made me think of things that I haven't thought in
a while.
And sometimes you need that too, because with grief and losing people as time passes, you

(40:23):
start to forget memories and you start to forget things.
Like I forgot how my mom answered my phone and that's why it made me cry because it's
like I haven't thought of that.
And so I haven't heard that in so long.
But it was also a nice memory because I like remembering that.
Now it's something that is way more in the forefront of my mind and memory because of
that and going through the book, you don't know what's going to help.

(40:44):
And if you just think, oh, book club seems silly.
It's actually been really good.
We've had deep conversations about these books and even if they're like, quote unquote, silly
romance books, there's very deep grief elements to it.
And so as much as I yapping about January and Gus and the cute banter, it's also very

(41:08):
real griefy moments in there that have also been really great to read.
So don't discount the grief book club if you haven't checked it out yet, because we do
go really deep into topics that I don't think you expect from just either reading the title
of the book or just thinking about a book club.
So completely agree.
But to answer the original question of what I have found most helpful this year, one,

(41:33):
it would be the decision to do 2024 differently.
That was a big decision and a big commitment because you can say that, but are you going
to follow through with it?
Are you going to actually do all the actions to do it?
And I don't think I really started doing it until like May.
So like I thought about it and it was kind of the back burner and I was like, there's
all the things I want to do.
But I really didn't take action till May.

(41:53):
And so I think about like, what if I had started in January?
How much more could I have accomplished?
How much more improvement would I have made with my grief if I had started in January
when I had that idea?
So I definitely would say making that decision and then acting on it sooner than I did.
But the decision to do the grief group obviously I think was the big one because I always felt

(42:15):
I don't want to talk to people about my grief.
Like it's my thing.
But it's so helpful to have people to talk to you, but also have other people say things
that you thought.
And you're like, I'd never want to say it, but other people say it.
And then you're like, oh, I can add onto it.
So it's been very validating to do the support group.
And then obviously it connects me to Kendall and we have such a great friendship and the

(42:36):
podcast.
So I think it was first making that decision for myself and then it kind of ricocheted
into support group and the group podcast, which has been really great.
It's not only for doing these episodes to help other people, but it's really helping
us as well digest our grief.
And these holiday episodes have been way deeper than we thought for sure.

(42:56):
Because I was like, oh, they're just going to be happy.
And they are happy and we do try to make them be positive for the most part.
But it also has been dissecting like every little piece of the holidays, which can be
very hard.
So I would say all of those things.
Yeah.
So that makes up for a wild 2024.
But what are you doing to prepare for a good 2025?

(43:19):
For a good 2025 is I want to go into with the same mindset as I did in 2024, but with
the confidence that I didn't have in 2023.
Because it's one thing to say, I want to do this and I do that.
When you haven't been exercising those muscles or exercising those things or even that openness,

(43:42):
it's a lot more daunting and scary because it's not something I felt comfortable with.
It's not something I had been doing.
So 2024 has really shown me so much and brought back a lot of confidence that I lost through
the grief process of just hiding myself away or dealing with the grief in silence or feeling
ashamed of the grief aspect of my life, which you shouldn't because it's your life.

(44:09):
But it's so many things where I hid myself away and I feel like I didn't like to be seen
in so many different ways because of just all the grief that I felt was just blanketing
me.
And now that is such not my mindset for 2025.
Also 2025 is kind of like my birthday is 0225.

(44:30):
So in a way, I feel like it's also my year.
Oh, magical hue.
And my golden birthday was my 25th birthday.
And that didn't really turn out the way that I had planned because that really was the
year that I was the most positive, like, oh my God, I'm doing all these things.
And those are the year that things went to shit for so many different reasons.

(44:51):
Mrs. Jigar died, gave us a lupus and a ricochet to all these different things.
So and it not being that, but I feel like it's been 10 years of a lot of growth.
And I think this has been such a great year in so many ways that I feel so much better
going into 2025, knowing what I can do, knowing what we've already accomplished and really

(45:16):
building on that.
So for me, it's building on what we've been doing.
We've done a lot of planning 2025.
So I think it's just really believing in my strengths and knowing what we can do and how
many people can help with everything that we're doing.
And just going into it with a lot more confidence than I had before, because it's still scary.

(45:37):
Even our first episodes, so scary to record and share and then put it out there and display
it and people hear it.
It's very scary to have people know so many personal things about you and stories and
cry.
Like I've cried so many times on this podcast.
I've almost cried so many times just on this episode.
It's scary to let that part of you show and you never let people see that.

(46:00):
So I just feel very good about it.
So for me, for 2025, it's just about building on what I've already done and committing to
the things that we've committed to.
So we've had a bunch of stuff that we're planning for 2025.
It's like executing on what we've already been doing and just knowing that it's going
to work out.

(46:21):
So I think having that faith in myself in the future that I just didn't have for so
long.
So I'm just preparing by believing in myself and believing in us.
What about you?
For New Year's, it's been a little harder for me these past couple years.
I love New Year's.
It's a fun time for me, but it's also a physical reminder of what you're leaving in the past

(46:45):
to move forward in the future.
So New Year's and New Year's Day being that physical reminder that another year is ending,
another year of you being older, another year of the unexpected that's about to happen in
2025.
Though I think I just fall back naturally thinking how I left my dad in 2020 still.

(47:09):
It's still such a sad emotional response for me and New Year's being that physical reminder
for me.
Thanksgiving is difficult.
Christmas is difficult.
You look around and it's the joyous time of year with your family.
But that day for some reason is just really difficult for me.
I don't know how you get over that.
I set very low expectations for the actual day itself because it's kind of like a birthday.

(47:33):
It's not like all of a sudden overnight from December 31st to January 1, you're a new person.
You're still the same person.
So I try to lower those expectations for actual day itself.
And I also try to look back to the previous New Year's Eve and think, wow, look at how
much I've done in the past year and how much I've accomplished.

(47:56):
Instead of being scared about the future, I look in comfort of the past and recognize
and reflect and think, wow, I've done so much.
I've grown so much.
I hope the same amount of growth happens in the next year.
There's actually a trend on TikTok, which I think is very relatable.
And I really hope TikTok does not get banned.
But side note, there's a trend where it's like I didn't accomplish much this year.

(48:18):
Like I didn't accomplish what I wanted to.
But then it's reflecting on what did I actually accomplish this year?
And people are writing down the things they actually accomplished.
And maybe it's not what you actually thought you were going to accomplish, but there's
so much.
And I think with grief and just with life even and being a woman, we don't always acknowledge
what we've accomplished and what we've done, what we've been through.

(48:40):
And I think it's so important to do that.
Because if you don't acknowledge it, there might not be anyone else that does.
And I think me and Kendall have become those people again in our lives where Kendall made
me cry really, really odd in our friendship because she said she was proud of me.
And we've got this whole conversation about people don't say that anymore in a way that

(49:01):
feels heartfelt because it's like they don't really know what you're going through.
And I think that's a difference of people saying they're proud of you of trading in
a project or something.
And yes, that's nice because you work so hard.
Like Kendall just finished graduate school.
This is graduate school?
This is like graduate school and that's amazing.
So props to you for that and completing that.
So obviously I'm proud of you for doing that.

(49:23):
But there's also other parts that I think it's nice to say that honestly to you about
that.
But there's other parts of like when people really know what's going on and like knowing
how hard Kendall worked on her final project and working on it and juggling everything.
There's a big difference of someone saying they're proud of you because they actually
know what you're going through versus it just being like just because you turned your project.
It's like, it's not just that you did the project.

(49:44):
It's like everything else that you've been juggling and dealing with and growing and
still submitting the project and passing and completing such a major thing in your life.
I think that is so different than just a good job type of thing or that type of statement.
I think it's good to have those people in your life.
But you also in case you don't yet, you need to be able to do that to yourself, especially

(50:11):
when the people that would normally say it to you first aren't here anymore.
And I think it's important that you have that love for yourself and that gratitude for yourself.
And hopefully you start meeting people and allowing new friendships and everything in
your life that other people see that and can say it and it means something.

(50:32):
And it's not just like a throwaway compliment.
Not saying that compliments aren't nice, but it's just so much deeper of a compliment when
you're like, they actually see me and they see what I've been through and they see what
I deal with on a day to day.
And I think that's so much deeper because it's like you actually see me.
And I think one thing we talked about or the ownership is like, I realized like, I don't
think people really see me because I don't talk about how hard some things are and I

(50:56):
don't talk about all the stuff that I'm doing.
And because of that, it's like, I don't think people see me really see me.
And so when they say like, good job, it's like good job for stuff that I don't really
care about as much.
They don't see all the other stuff.
So I think it's so important to have that and like, not even if it's like what Kendall
said or it's a silly TikTok trend, it's so important to acknowledge those things that

(51:20):
you've been through because you need to know it first before you even care about hearing
from someone else.
Like you need to know that you did those things and you accomplished it and be proud of yourself.
So to the last point, talking point of this episode, which is crazy because it's our last
holiday episode is what are your goals for your grief and in life for 2025?

(51:43):
For 2025, I'm going to try and challenge myself to do new things.
I am very passionate about making a difference in my local community and I'm going to try
and have different ideas on how I'm going to give back to the community that helped
raise me, especially through the hardship of grieving with my father.
I'm also going to challenge myself to slow down and reflect on these beautiful moments

(52:05):
in my life.
Through this podcast, showing me I am not taking those moments and enjoying them or
experiencing them to their fullest.
I've just always ran through them and was like, oh, that's nice.
And then just kind of chuck it behind me.
I really want to appreciate and give gratitude for these beautiful things that happen.
And this year taught me that I wasn't doing that and I want to be better at that.

(52:28):
So in essence, practicing to be present more and practicing in an essence stoicism and
just being grateful for these beautiful things that do happen to me.
But what about you?
Yeah, I definitely agree with that one.
Even sometimes when we talk about our metrics with our podcasts and stuff and things that
we've accomplished, I don't think we take the time to celebrate every big win.

(52:53):
It's a great thing, but it's like, we're kind of, okay, the next goal or what can
we do to improve upon this?
And I think it's important that we slow down and be like, this is a huge accomplishment.
It's great that anyone's listening to our podcast.
Anyone is benefiting from our podcast, but I feel like very early on, we've gotten some
very heartfelt comments from people and people, whether they're in our Facebook group or just

(53:18):
listeners or people that comment on our TikTok a lot or people that we've interviewed for
our Substack.
There's been so many really great people that we've been meeting and friendships and even
like Britney Spivey that we're having on.
You're going to hear her in a few episodes.
She's so cool.
She's such a cool person and she has such amazing energy and for her to want to come

(53:43):
onto our podcast, that is such a major thing that we both were giddy about.
But then also to know she's such a great person and she's such a kind person and just has
this amazing energy.
I think that is so cool and things that we're like, we need to slow down and appreciate.
That's amazing.
We guessed it onto podcasts the last two weeks.
That stuff is amazing and that's great that people value what we have to say that they

(54:06):
also want us on their podcast and people that we reached out to that are going to be in
our 2025 podcast.
Those are such amazing things.
So I definitely agree with Kendall that being in the present and being like, this is really
cool things that are happening and we need to make sure we take the time to appreciate
how cool that is when we're still so small.

(54:26):
I think that is super important.
I think for 2025, my goals are, one thing is I want to do and I'm practicing on is all
the things that I've learned through grief.
I want to practice how I share that and what can be the most beneficial way to share things

(54:47):
with people and what makes the most sense.
I think that is a big goal for myself is how can I choose all these really hard things
and help other people with it in the best way.
Obviously this podcast is a major one, just how I speak about it.
It's not just about what you've gone through and your experience, but you also have to
be able to share it in a way that people understand and it's helpful to other people.

(55:11):
Not necessarily your pain has to be helpful to other people, but if that's the choice
that I'm making that I want good things to come out of all of this horrible times and
trying times, that's like, I also want to make sure that I know how to speak about it
in a way that's very clear for people.
So that's something that I'm working on because I can definitely be a great speaker, but I

(55:31):
have to be confident when I'm speaking about and my grief has been something that I've
just this year feel more confident about speaking about.
So it's like that is a major thing and me Kendall talked about it at Sunnys where we
can speak about our grief with confidence and quote unquote like expert on our grief
because it's our experience.
We've dealt with it and so we can speak about it with confidence.

(55:53):
So definitely working on that.
And then just continue like the things I've been bringing so much joy is just like doing
new experiences.
Like I'm going to do a fun volleyball league basically with people that I met over the
summer from hosting volleyball in the Golden Park.
We're going to do volleyball, I think it's weekly in a league and it's fun and I haven't

(56:16):
done that.
Oh, I'm going to do it with people I already made friends with.
So it's like doing new things because I've welcomed like new friendships that have been
really great.
Just always open to like new opportunities and welcoming good things in.
And I think the more good you put in the world, the more good you're welcoming back to yourself.
So I think those types of things are just continue to prioritize like what's bringing

(56:39):
me joy and the people that are bringing me joy and the good new friendships, prioritizing
that is just like the main goals for me.
It's like the more I continue to take care of myself, it affects everything else like
my health, being active, doing all these different things.
So for me, my goal and my grief in life is just you continue to build on what I've been
doing and know that I haven't taken care of myself in such a better way and it's not perfect.

(57:05):
And the holiday season, like I said, I've cried so much.
I think I've cried like definitely more days than I haven't.
I think the only days that I haven't cried in December are probably Christmas Eve and
Christmas Day, which is I've, I don't know if other people experience that, but like
those days were actually okay for me.
And at points like I had fun, like I had cousins that were in town and we went around and ended

(57:26):
up having a really good day, which I wasn't expecting because I was planning to just that
whole day just be in my PJs watching holiday movies with my dog.
But it ended up being just like a nice, really great day of catching up and spending time
with family.
So I think allowing yourself to be open to switching up your plan and welcoming good
things in I think has been great.

(57:46):
And it's not perfect.
Like I said, I cried.
I cried on the 26th.
I probably cried a day.
I almost cried like 10 times just in this episode.
So it's obviously, it's not perfect, but grief is not perfect.
You're still going to, doing good things for your grief doesn't mean you're not going to
cry about it because that's always going to be really sad.
Like just saying my sister's gone and like, I don't get in life with her.
Like just saying those things out loud always makes me, I get that ping in the chest.

(58:09):
If I just sat down and like thought about that, I could cry for like that's just easiest
thing to make me cry is just talking about that.
But there's just been so many good things and so much life has felt so much more exciting
and fulfilling because of all the things that I've been doing.
I just really want to push that for 2025 and not make it necessarily super specific for

(58:31):
certain things, but that has been such important change that it's just like keep going with
it.
And then I think the biggest piece that I didn't have the 24 is like I said, like the
confidence to keep pushing that for 2025.
So my goal is just to do what I've been doing, but with confidence and excitement, just continue
that onto the next level.
Like we're here and the next level up.

(58:52):
I mean, it's been so much fun.
Not only is this podcast been great to like really dissect things and like share and you
want our experiences to share, but like it's always like a great time to like catch up
with Kendall every week and then talk about stuff.
And I feel like we're always texting about different stuff, but it's also just great
to like share and as much as we share with each other offline, I feel like we always

(59:14):
still learning about each other while we do these episodes and really share perspectives.
And Kendall has, especially during the holidays, brought up so many moments and things that
really reflect on things differently that I was like, wow, I didn't think about it that
way and I didn't think about that.
And even the new year where I always thought, you know, that I go into the year positive,

(59:35):
but I also don't think I gave enough value to the feelings of that it is really hard
when you started in a year, you think about you're starting in another year without the
person.
You have to live another year without the person.
And that is a really sad thought.
And it is something that I don't always put value on.
Like that is really hard.
And that is a really hard feeling that you have to work through because when so many

(59:58):
people are just excited to run towards the new year of like accomplishments and stuff,
you have to fight through that feeling of that, that sucks.
You know, that that's a hard feeling, but I want to be excited about 2025 and that's
not an easy place to get to.
But it's nice to have someone with a perspective.
And I feel like we feel really safe with like our feelings and what we say to each other

(01:00:19):
that it's like, oh, I can feel like what Kendall says, I'll be like, it really makes me reflect
about things in a different way.
And I think that's been such an amazing thing of just being able to have to have that space
and have like a friend to do that with and and do this whole experience with.
So I'm very grateful for that.
So just like excited for what that will all be for 2025.

(01:00:43):
Yeah.
And that's it.
That's a wrap for 2024.
Oh, that's crazy.
So our first episode, January 7th will be our kickoff of season two.
Very exciting things happening for season two.
I think we're leveling up for season two, which is nice.

(01:01:06):
Yeah, there's a lot of things to look forward to a lot of great surprises.
Y'all should stay tuned.
We hope that the holiday series has been helpful, but then for season two that there's just
more advice and perspectives that can help you with your own grief.
And as always, you can find resources down in the show notes.
And if you've gotten this far in the episode and you haven't already, we would really appreciate

(01:01:31):
if you could subscribe, like in our podcast that really helps us get the word out and
build our grief community.
So if you made it this far, we really appreciate if you do that.
And we're grateful for everyone that already has done that.
This is the end of our holiday series, which honestly, I hope has been helpful to people
because it's been really helpful to me.

(01:01:53):
And it has forced me and Kendall to really deep dive into our own holiday feelings, which
I have never deep dived into my own holiday feelings as much as this holiday season, which
I think is also why I cried the most.
But I don't see that as a bad thing because I think you really need to confront those
feelings for you to also deal with them in a better way and to accept things and like

(01:02:17):
find new ways to make things better.
It's also been, I think, the best holiday season I've had because I've been so proactive
of like doing different things and seeing friends and doing fun things that it has been
a really good balance that I do feel like this month overall has been good, even though
I don't think I've cried this much during the holiday season.

(01:02:37):
But it's because like all the work that we've been doing with the holiday episodes and just
talking through it, that has been so helpful.
That might be confusing to some people, but it's actually just been, I say overall, like
net positive for me in the holiday season.
Yeah, it's been a good year.
It's been a good run and we've learned a lot and just excited to see what's to come.

(01:02:59):
So thank you all for joining us on this journey.
We're putting a bow on 10 episodes.
I feel like 10 episodes.
That's crazy that we did 10 episodes on the holidays.
It is crazy, along with the book club episodes still.
I didn't realize how many episodes the holidays would be in my head.
Yeah, I don't think I did either.
I thought it was going to be like four episodes.

(01:03:20):
So it just ended up being 10 because we didn't sit down to like actually put down the dates
for that.
So yeah, I mean props to me and Kendall for popping out 10 episodes.
During an already busy time.
So literally, yes.
And this is a Saturday, so we're also recording on a weekend to make sure that we get this
episode out for everybody in time for the 31st.

(01:03:42):
We're dedicated.
We're dedicated.
So thank you all and have a great new year.
Yeah.
Bye.
fruit.