Holidays & Grief : Holiday Grief Q&A

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Two Girls with Grief podcast, the holiday season edition, episode eight.

(00:21):
We're your hosts.
I'm Kendall Rodgers.
And I'm Rachel Dwyer.
This is a special holiday series we'll be doing every Tuesday during the holiday season
and we're almost done with these episodes, which is crazy.
So we know the holidays are a hard time for Grievers and we wanted to create a space to
share, learn, and vent with each other during what can feel like a not so jolly season.
So this episode, we're going to go over questions people have about the holidays in grief.

(00:45):
So we put a question in our story on Instagram.
So we got some questions submitted through there.
And then we also just kind of been stalking different forums and different stuff and questions
in our comments to collect these questions and share our opinions on it and our thoughts.
So it might not be what your opinions and thoughts are, but just this is from our own

(01:05):
grief experience.
And we wanted to answer these because we thought it might be helpful if you're having any of
these questions and you're just looking for another opinion on what might be the right
thing to do.
Yeah.
So we'll start off with the first one.
Why do the holidays feel harder after losing a loved one?
That's a big whammy.
I think for me, the holidays do feel a lot harder.

(01:28):
And I think the short version of it is that what represents the holidays to me are my
family and my loved ones.
So them not being here, it just means the holidays feel completely different.
And I think it's nearly impossible to just feel the same joy that you felt towards the
holiday season without the people that you want to spend it with the most.
And I think it's always going to feel a little bit different.

(01:50):
I think you can bring back some joy to the holidays.
But I just think it's something that people don't talk enough about that the holidays
are just a different experience when you've lost people and people had it differently.
But there is always that emptiness for the holidays.
And I find joy in the season overall when I seek it out, but it isn't like that natural

(02:13):
joy I used to feel for the holidays.
Yeah.
There's a poem and if I can find it, we'll include it somewhere.
But someone says, after I pass, I hope you think of me and just imagine that I'm in another
room.
And I think about that a lot around the holidays of hoping that my dad will just walk through
the door.
And even if it's just to deliriously keep me falsely optimistic about the holidays,

(02:40):
I just think that he's in another room and he'll return again.
And if that's what you have to just believe to get you through the holidays, then sometimes
that helps.
So don't let anyone make you feel like it's not a big deal because it is and it changes
how you feel about the holidays.
So the next question is, should you feel guilty for celebrating the holidays without them

(03:01):
and feeling any joy during the holidays?
Should you feel guilty?
No, you should not feel guilty.
But are you going to feel guilty?
Yeah, you're going to feel guilty.
And it's hard to have those two wolves inside you competing because you're going to have
a moment of laughter and then you're going to feel guilty about it.
But don't let anybody try and rain on that parade.
But also if you do feel that, take a moment and just recognize like, yeah, you have conflicting

(03:25):
feelings.
The holidays are going to be filled with them, a lot of happiness and sadness.
And it's hard.
It's hard to navigate that.
It's funny because I always see people say that, that they feel guilty for feeling any
joy for moving on with their life in any way.
And I've never felt guilty for that.

(03:46):
I think it could be because I've experienced so much loss and I've experienced so many
sad times and I still cry pretty frequently.
I am so grateful for the joyful days, the happy days, the days that feel way more happiness
than sadness that I never feel guilty for celebrating my life that I get to live.

(04:07):
I spent so much time focusing on celebrating them even in their death of all their birthdays,
their death anniversaries, all these different things before my own life.
And it took me a while to be like, no, I am the one that's still here and I need to prioritize
like my life and my happiness because they would want that for me and they wouldn't want
me just to spend so much time thinking about their death.
So I've never been that person that felt that for whatever reason, but I know that's a very

(04:32):
common thing.
But I don't think you should feel guilty because so much sadness comes with losing the people
that you love that it can affect every freaking day of your life.
It can affect every big moment that if you're feeling like that pure unadulterated joy,
happiness, please celebrate that.
Feel that and celebrate that you can still feel that and that you get those moments because

(04:56):
we don't know which time we have in this earth.
So whatever you could enjoy, go enjoy it is my thought.
I think that goes easily into the next question.
How can I deal with the overwhelming amount of sadness I have when everybody else around
me seems happy?
I think for that, especially on the holidays, I mean for me like this year for Christmas

(05:19):
Eve instead of going to the big Christmas party and I did this last year for the first
time was I stay home and I make my favorite foods and I might like have hot chocolate
and cookies and watch holiday movies with my dog.
And for me, that has been the most at peace that I felt during at least like Christmas
Eve, like Christmas day is a little bit more chill and I spent it so with family like,

(05:42):
but Christmas Eve is always like the big party.
And to me that just doesn't feel right currently.
And that brought me more sadness and those days just bring me sadness that I didn't feel
like getting ready and talking and catching up with people and trying to pretend that
I'm quote unquote on when I'm really feeling very off for that day.

(06:03):
So for me, it's been like figuring out like how I can feel at peace and feel any type
of happiness and excitement.
And for me, it's like foods and doing my like Hallmark movies and stuff.
So it is hard because you see people that are just so excited for the holidays that
talking about the magic, all the marketing is like, it's the jolliest time of the year.

(06:25):
And it really doesn't feel that way anymore for a lot of people.
Once you've lost somebody, I think it's you have to figure out what I mean, they say like
comparisons a thief of joy, like you really can't compare your experiences because it's
very different.
And I don't think that ever puts you in a good place, but I think you really have to
figure out where you can find happiness even in the sad moments.

(06:48):
And this month, I feel like has been very sad for me overall.
I've been missing my sister a lot.
I feel like I've cried a ton this month, which I don't think I always do.
The holidays are always weird for me, but I think doing this podcast and even just doing
the holiday episodes, I've processed my grief a lot more than I had.
I've thought about things a lot more than I had, like, because we've broken down so

(07:09):
many little parts about the holidays that I've had to really face it when I don't think
I faced through like every moment or even the things that I meant out loud until doing
this podcast.
So I think I've acknowledged just how big of a loss it is for me.
But because of that, it's like I feel the sadness, but I also focus so much like on

(07:30):
the joy and the things that I can take.
So I try to balance it out.
But I think you really just can't compare your situations because they're different.
But you need to figure out like what will make you happy in this lifetime.
What will make you happy this year?
Maybe it might be different next year, but like, what can I do to bring me joy this year?
And I think that's going to look different for everybody.
I think specifically for very situational events of like, say you're at a holiday party

(07:57):
or a happy hour and you feel that like wave of grief come over you to not like try and
shove it down and hide it.
Things that I've done and it helped is just like step away, go to the bathroom, go outside,
step into another room and just like feel that, let that wave come over you.
Like, don't try and fight that.
And if someone comes and checks on you because they're worried and just be like, I just need

(08:21):
a little moment.
I'm all right.
But to feel that, I think there's so many times in my past where I tried to shove it
away and not feel that feeling.
It's a horrible feeling.
You've had that feeling, you know, where it just, and it comes out of nowhere.
But to just feel it, take the time you need.

(08:42):
And however you feel after that, if you're like, I need to go, then leave.
If you want to go back because you're like, I'm actually enjoying the party.
I just had this like random wave of grief come over me.
If you feel it, just allow it to sit there and then go back out and hang out with your
friends.
I think that's also a good thing.
I think it really takes like you having a very transparent conversation with yourself

(09:02):
on how you're feeling and what your grief is saying to you in that moment.
And going to our next question, I kind of addressed it a little bit in my last answer,
but can you find joy in the holiday season again after loss?
Yeah, it's taken me until this year.
It's taken me for about four years because if you had asked me in the past, I was the

(09:24):
biggest Grinch I knew after my loss of my dad.
But finding things that I liked doing, like me personally, the things that I personally
like doing, whether that's a self-care thing or a holiday tradition type thing.
And like one like little, not that it brings me joy, in fact, it kind of brings me a little
happiness, but I'm happy to do it because it's a tradition I think I want to continue

(09:44):
doing is I put up a stocking for my dad and I'm like, he's still a part of my family.
Like he's still my dad.
And I just wanted to like honor him in his own like little way.
And so yeah, I mean, I have one for all my brothers and sisters, but one also for my
dad and just to be like, this is his, this is his spot.
No one can replace that.
That's a sweet thing.

(10:06):
I used to think like the only thing that was going to get me over this was like having
kids in my own family and that will make it all better.
And I have a dog, I don't have those things.
So I can't really speak of what that is, but I do think there's, there's something of like,
you know, you're still trying to find the joy for the holidays and you're focusing on

(10:26):
someone else is joy and like they're also experiencing loss, but you're thinking of
like, how can I still make this good for them?
I think it's, it's another thing that you don't want is like, you don't want to take
away the joy from your kid as a really young person.
Right?
It's like, I don't think you should be without joy as an adult, but it's like, as a kid,
you're still trying to protect them and like, you know, take care of them and do all these

(10:47):
things, which I think it gives you something to focus on.
I do see though, in a way that also might stop you from being able to process it or
take care of yourself because you don't want to maybe cry in front of your kid or you don't
want to do this or that.
And I think that's just a hard situation overall, right?
Because you're not only thinking about you, you have to think about other people immediately.
You know, like sometimes you have to put them above yourself and your own healing.

(11:10):
I can imagine that being actually a really hard experience, but it might also be able
to channel it in different ways.
But I think one, not everyone wants kids, not everyone wants husbands or wives or whatever.
Like not, not everyone wants that.
I don't think that should be like the, the fix all right.
Like I'm going to start my own family and it's going to replace missing my family.

(11:30):
I think it's like trying to find a cure to something that's incurable, you know, like
you're like, what will make this better?
And took me a while to realize like that's not going to be a solution that's going to
fix it.
And I think no matter your age, you should be able to experience joy during the holiday
season.
And so for me, it's like, I've tried to be like, I want to embrace the holidays where
I can, but I also have to accept that like, I might feel overwhelming sadness during the

(11:51):
holidays as well.
And I just had to let myself cry.
Every time I text anyone about like anything around the holidays and like missing a family,
I just start crying.
Like I've been severely dehydrated the month of December.
I have my big Stanley mug here.
Like I need to refill this already.
Like I've just been like gushing the tears this month.
So, but even if that's the case and because like the holiday, the, whatever it is, the

(12:13):
holidays for me isn't here anymore.
I also know like I need to lean into where it is like getting decorations.
Like yesterday I just got like garlands to put it over like my TV.
I'm just trying to do things that like bring me holiday joy, even if you know, other things
get taken from me.
So it's like figuring out how to balance that and where I can be excited for stuff because

(12:35):
I need to find out as an adult, what could bring me joy during the holidays, even when
I feel so much sadness.
So it's been a balance, but I think for me, I want to go to this like holiday fair that
I saw.
So I've got to go with friends, like going to holiday bars, going to different things.
It really has made me be more proactive with what is going to bring me joy during the holiday
season.

(12:55):
And that has just taken time for me to even want to welcome that in.
So I think it can take time, but you have to figure out what works for you.
And there's not like one size fits all for that type of situation.
Yeah.
I think that some of the things we say just go easily into this next question.
What are some ways that we can honor our loved ones during the holidays or that our listeners

(13:18):
can do to honor their loved ones?
The idea that you said already earlier about putting out a stocking for them.
I think what you said about your dad and like the stocking, I think is really...
The hard thing is like you feel their absence so much during the holidays.
And if you don't bring it up and other people don't bring it up, it's like this thing where
it's like, do they not matter anymore?
They were the holiday magic for me.
They were the joy during the holidays.

(13:40):
It makes it this weird thing.
And I think bringing them back in traditions or doing things in their honor, I think is
a beautiful thing to do.
Like last week I made snickerdoodles because I have good memories of making snickerdoodles
with my sister on the holidays.
And so I made some snickerdoodles.
And it was just something that I used to do with her and just cookies in general was like
something that we like to do.
So I think doing things sometimes in their honor or things that you remember about them,

(14:03):
I think is really nice.
There's so many things that you can do to incorporate them back into the holiday season,
whether it is like putting up their stocking.
I actually just watched this movie on Netflix, something in Notting Hill.
It's not like Notting Hill, the movie, but it was a Christmas movie and my friend told
me to watch it.
It actually was cute.
And they actually dealt with like mom loss and stuff in there.

(14:24):
And one thing they did was they had their mom's stocking, original stocking.
And so they bring it like with them everywhere and they still have it up.
So I think there's things that you can do, whether it's like making their favorite recipes,
having a stocking, maybe you donate something in their honor.
There's so many things that you can do.
I think it might take a while to want to incorporate them into the holidays.

(14:47):
It might be something you want to do right away.
Everyone's journey is a little different.
But I think there is a beauty in incorporating them somehow into the holidays in whatever
way, whether that's like recipes, even just spending time with people that they loved.
There's so many things that you can do to bring them back and you just figure out what
makes sense for you.
Like if it's a trip or whatever, anything that you usually do with them, you can figure

(15:10):
out what you want to do in their honor.
Maybe you can't do the exact thing because it's still really hard.
Maybe you can do something similar, test it out.
Just keep trying things.
But I think it's important to figure out what works best for you and what feels right for
you.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that your cookie idea reminded me of my sister.
She made fudge this year and my dad used to make fudge for the neighbors.

(15:32):
I'm not really the baker or the dessert maker in the house, but she is and that she found
so much comfort in that.
I was like, why am I proud and tearful of this and that she wants to take up that mantle?
I hated to say it.
I was like, girl, your fudge is better than our dad's.
He would be so proud of you.

(15:54):
You took his recipe and made it even better.
I think it's little things to just continue on that memory and that legacy.
I think also something I've seen on social media is people donating to angel trees or
trying to be an angel of their loved one and carry on that legacy.
I know that requires financial resources for people and some people just don't have that

(16:19):
and that's okay.
But if there are families well off or they have funds left over from their loved one
that they could do a scholarship or they can afford toys for a family who need them, I
think that's such a beautiful way to carry on a legacy of a loved one.
Also, I feel like we're blending in all of these questions a little bit, but how do you

(16:40):
handle holiday traditions that remind them of the person that you've lost?
I think we kind of mentioned it a little bit already, but you have to take it at your own
pace because it might be something that you can't do right away.
It might be something you were like, I need to do this right away in their honor.

(17:00):
I think part of it is where you're at, but also sometimes your mindset and how you see
it because let's say like making cinnamon rolls.
If someone in your family made cinnamon rolls, if that was a recipe and you're like, I don't
want to make it anymore or without them it doesn't make sense or I feel bad.
But also a lot of people are like, well, I'm doing it in their honor for the first time.

(17:24):
I want their legacy to continue and I think that there's also something deeper with just
recipes and things like that because it's what you bring to family parties that also
people start associating you with that.
Like you're the person that brings this item or you're the person that has this recipe
and people start expecting that, like that my family is going to bring this thing.

(17:45):
So I think it could be this bigger thing than just a recipe alone.
There's a lot of love and memories and things attached to it as well, which makes it so
much harder to do sometimes.
But I do think there is beauty in continuing their legacy.
So I think sometimes it's like, maybe you skip this year because it's too hard, but
maybe you start reframing it in your mind of like, I want to continue their legacy.

(18:07):
I want future generations to know that this was something that they used to do.
And it could be making something like Sin My Roles again.
It could be maybe they want to volunteer every year during this time or they wanted to do
some type of book drive or something.
Maybe you guys did a trip to this town every year.
You might need time away from it and it might take you a while to want to do that again.

(18:32):
But I do think there's beauty in thinking about, I just want to keep their memory alive
and I want to keep doing the thing that they loved and that we love doing together and
kind of continuing that process for the future generations.
Yeah.
I love all those ideas and I think those are so applicable.
I know for my family, our parents got divorced and then our family dynamic looked a little

(18:53):
different after the passing of my dad.
Though some of these traditions are hard to continue with just us as siblings and us as
the kids.
But we knew our best.
I think one thing that's helped us is creating our own traditions between me and my brother
and sister.
It's not in a way that we're trying to forget about the past and the hardships that we've
gone through, but more in a recognition of that.

(19:15):
We're adults now and we're in this new phase of life and we can do new traditions now with
each other and just kind of this reminder of that we survived a really hard thing and
that we love each other so much and start a new tradition for ourselves.
And so if doing, I think, previous traditions are hard emotionally and maybe immediately

(19:37):
after a loss, you can't do that.
But traditions are something as pivotal and essential to the holiday season, then you
could try doing different traditions.
Maybe like a spin off an old one or a whole new one.
But yeah, I think there's so many ways you can handle traditions, especially when you're
grieving.
What do you do when you don't feel like celebrating this year?

(20:01):
Don't.
Yeah, I don't think you have to celebrate this year.
I've downplayed the actual days and I try to focus on bringing joy through the other
days of December and welcoming Christmas joy where I can.
I think it also depends if you have kids or other things like that.
I think there's things you have to consider.

(20:22):
It's not always so black and white.
So sometimes you don't really have a choice, even that's not what you want.
You have to think of the bigger picture.
So for that, I can't really say.
I would recommend you still celebrate in some way.
If you have other things to look like you have kids and things to think of.
But if you are a single person, I think you decide you have the free will to decide what

(20:45):
you want to do.
Even just for Christmas, but my mom's birthday or sister's birthday or whatever, there's
sometimes that I've done trips, there's sometimes that I've done nothing.
And sometimes I just don't want to think about it during that day.
And that just makes it easier to pretend like it's any other day.
And in the reality, it is just another day on the calendar.
But you have to decide like, this year I'm going to bow out or maybe this year I do want

(21:12):
to bring joy back into the holiday season.
And I've worked on some things that I can feel some type of joy during the holiday.
It doesn't have to look like it looks like in commercials.
It doesn't have to look like it looks on a Hallmark movie.
It can look however you want it to look.
So just because it doesn't look how you think it's supposed to, doesn't mean that you still
can't celebrate or do something that you enjoy.

(21:33):
Whether that's like you're going on a trip or you're going to eat Chinese food for the
day.
Whatever it looks like for you, you can decide that.
Whatever way makes it feel best.
But I feel like removing a lot of the pressure is super important because I think there's
a lot of outside noise of, oh, you should just do this, are you sure?
That sounds so sad, what you want to do.

(21:53):
And it's like, sometimes what someone might see as sad is actually really good for you.
And just because someone doesn't get it, doesn't mean that it's wrong.
You just have to know what's actually a positive for you.
But yeah, I don't think you have to since they celebrate if you don't want to.
But I think you also need to make sure like, is that really what you want?

(22:14):
Or is that like a feeling that you're just feeling really sad about it?
So I think you have to kind of sit with that for a little bit to decide what you're actually
feeling with.
Yeah.
And I know in years past for myself, I don't know how to say it.
I don't feel bad if I don't feel obligated to attend the holiday traditional or the parties

(22:35):
or whatever.
But to make that time still, I guess, productive and not just like you blink and you miss it
and where did that time go?
I learned how to crochet over a holiday season because I wasn't participating in normal holiday
stuff or I didn't want to do the normal holiday things.
So if you're definitely a person who gets obsessive on a task or a hobby, this might

(22:57):
be the time because then you're learning, you're still growing, you're creating things
and that's still a good outlet, I think, for grief.
I learned how to crochet.
I started learning how to play guitar.
So even if it's not a traditional way to look at it, you don't want to participate in the
holidays.
No one's saying you have to.
Maybe another way to funnel all that energy or that all the things happening in your life

(23:18):
right now is to just put that into a hobby and have that consume your time for the time
being until the holidays are over.
Yeah.
Another thing that comes up is how do you handle when people bring up your loved one
and bring it up during the holidays?
Yeah, that's a hard one.
I've had two different stances on this and I'll say they're both okay.

(23:38):
You can use both of them.
After the passing of my dad initially in that mourning period, people would ask, you know,
how's your dad?
They might not know he had died and I don't want to spring it on them or more than likely,
I was not in an emotional state to handle the emotions I was about to feel to tell them
the truth that he might have not been there.

(24:01):
And so there was a time where I lied to people about my dad.
I didn't feel like I owed it to them.
They weren't keeping up with him.
They weren't at the funeral.
It was kind of just like more, I think, like civil conversation, small talk.
And so for the sake of me just getting through the event for the day, I'd be like, yeah,
he's doing well.

(24:21):
He's in a good place.
Like kept it very vague and ambiguous because I knew if I started talking about the reality
of the life I was living that he was not alive anymore.
I knew I would be a puddle.
I would be a puddle on the ground and this person would have to handle my outburst.
I did not know how to handle that situation at the time when I first started grieving.

(24:42):
Now with a few years in retrospect, I can talk about it more easily and know how to
respond because of course they're always going to say like, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.
And I can now say, well, thank you.
I appreciate your kind words.
I do not blame though people who tell people like, oh, my dad's dead or so and so is dead

(25:03):
and they're not here anymore and they get really emotional.
That's your every right.
You are a hundred percent allowed to do that.
That is a very personal loss and it's honest.
You're being honest about the situation.
I did not want to be honest about it.
I wanted to keep that loss to myself because I didn't feel like I owed the whole world
about a justification around my dad.
As a few years have gone by, I look back and I reflect.

(25:25):
I'm like, I'm stronger now to talk about it.
I do feel like there's a lot of people that care about my dad and to know what happened
with him, they appreciate knowing the truth around it.
And so those are very two different situations on how to handle that.
I think both are fine.
Both are ways to handle that question for wherever you are in your grief.

(25:46):
I do not judge you for how you handle that question.
It's always one that comes up.
Rachel, you get this question all the time.
It's one you can avoid.
It's one you're going to have to answer for the rest of your life.
The answer I think can change with you and where you are in your grief.
Sometimes the answer is hard for listeners to know.
My dad passed away because of medical issues.
I think if somebody you loved had died because of a very brutal or tragic or gruesome circumstance,

(26:15):
you may not want to bring that up.
You may not want to say how that situation, because inevitably that question is going
to come next.
So I think it's really on how comfortable you are with your grief and then with the
situation and the person who's asking.
I think that's also a lot of context too on whether you think they care about your lost

(26:37):
loved one or not.
If you don't think they do, you don't owe them an answer.
If you think they genuinely had a vested interest in your loved one, then maybe they do deserve
an answer.
So you kind of just have to play it by ear sometimes.
When I saw this question, my mind went immediately to a different direction of if people ask
you at a holiday party or something.
That's a hard thing because there's a balance of you not wanting to be at family parties

(27:03):
or any of these celebrations and it to be like this elephant in the room that no one's
talking about.
But at the same time, on the actual day, it might be more sensitive.
You might be feeling more sad.
So do you feel comfortable crying in that space potentially?
And I think it's a very personal thing.
And sometimes you don't know if it's going to make you cry or not.

(27:26):
I feel like those days can feel extra hard because you're feeling it extra.
And I think you have to learn to just say, I'm okay if you don't want to have that conversation
because sometimes that just really shuts it up like, oh, I'm okay.
Things are asking.
Or you can actually be open with whatever you're feeling.

(27:46):
Also the other hard part is a lot of people have experienced it where they say how they're
actually feeling and the people are just like, or they don't respond to how you're actually
feeling because they don't know what to say.
But so they don't really say anything.
And that's also a hard thing.
So when people ask about a love one during the holidays, you really just have to decide

(28:08):
what you're willing to be open with.
It could just be like, you're just trying to shut it down.
So you just give the short answer or you just tell them like, it's a really hard day for
me.
And it's a hard time.
And I've just been more open about like, it just makes me sadder.
So I won't.
I want to see you while you're here, but I don't want to spend that day at a party.
And people were like, oh, I get it.
Like I understand.

(28:29):
And I wasn't saying that before, right?
Before I was just like, I'm not going to go.
And people were like, oh, something wrong.
They're worried.
Like so sad.
And I'm like, no, that makes me sad to go.
I actually feel very at peace with my day.
Maybe I'll still cry, but like I feel more at peace with that decision.
So I think it's, you kind of just have to be clear about your boundaries and decide
what your boundaries are.

(28:50):
And yeah, you might, how open you're willing to cry at a family party or friend party
or whatever you are during that time.
There's always this inevitable question for every griever and every griever who's listening,
they know what these comments are.
But how do you handle the well-meaning, but maybe insensitive comments from other people
when they talk about your loved one?

(29:13):
I think I used to be more sensitive about it and also more held my tongue because I
feel like my dad or my mom would want me to take the high road.
Yeah.
And I just don't have that anymore.
And for better or for worse, like there's no one stopping me from saying what I want
to say.
So because of that, I feel very free to say whatever I want and not feel like I need to

(29:40):
hold it in.
So now I would just say whatever the hell's on my mind.
If someone says something, I'm just going to correct them.
I'm going to do that and have confidence to say whatever I want.
I definitely had more of a thought process of like, well, what my mom and dad going to
say if I say something mean to this person or I don't do the polite thing.

(30:04):
I had a former aunt, because I don't call her an aunt anymore, that went up at my dad's
funeral and said some nasty things about us and my mom, about my dad.
That was just like totally incorrect and totally inappropriate.
And so now I don't talk to her.
I avoid her and I have no problem saying such her face, but everyone basically knows that

(30:27):
and keeps her away from me.
But I have no problem saying anything to her if she so tries.
And sometimes just ignore.
I had another family member who I also don't consider family anymore that told me that
my sister got lupus because she was anorexic.
And she just kept going off about it.

(30:49):
And I literally turned my back to her because I was like, I'm not having this conversation.
It was at a family party and I was like, I'm either going to yell at you at this party
or I'm going to ignore you.
And I literally remember I turned away from her because I was so pissed off.
And she came around to where I was and kept talking about it.
And then she was mad because I was ignoring her and just walked away.

(31:13):
And she was upset with that.
But there was no reason to say that.
And I was so pissed off because at the time my sister was having a lupus flare up and
I didn't want to leave her, but I came to that freaking party because it was a baby
shower.
So I left her when I didn't want to.
And she's saying bad about my sister, which is not how you get lupus.
And my sister wasn't also anorexic.
And it just was a thing where it's like...

(31:34):
So it wasn't accurate?
Like she's just going around spreading lies?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, you don't get lupus that way, but she's just...
Right.
I was about to ask that's not a scientific thing.
No.
I don't think they really know what causes lupus, but one, she wasn't anorexic.
So even if that they find a reason that that happens, that's also not what she was.

(31:55):
So she just was chubby as a teenager and lost weight as an adult.
And because she was actually a healthier weight and no longer a chubby kid, yeah.
And she's reached out to me since, it's like, I'm thinking of you.
I just don't reply because I'm like, you don't realize how fucked up that was.
And had it not been at a baby shower, if you say that to me now, I will go off on you.

(32:20):
I don't have a filter on that.
And I'm not someone that's like volatile or anything.
But yeah, I mean, if people say things that are insensitive or wrong, I will correct you.
And that's just, I think that's how it should be anyway.
And in the Filipino culture, people do shit like that.
And I say shit like that to you, it's just the culture.
More so like family actually in the Philippines than family here.

(32:42):
But yeah, I mean, they'll say to your face, you gained weight.
Oh, I used to do this and that.
And it's one of those things where I would never say anything because of my parents.
But now, someone said it, I'd be like, don't talk about that.
That's inappropriate.
There's no reason to be talking about that.
And yeah, so I think now basically is I would just tell them to their face like that's not

(33:05):
okay or that's not cool or worse.
But depends on what they say.
Like the person saying, my sister got lupus, like basically asked for lupus.
Like I hope she felt like shit at my sister's funeral.
I hope she felt like literal shit.
And I mean that with my whole chest.
I mean that with every fiber of my being that I hope she felt like literal shit.

(33:29):
So yeah, so maybe don't listen to me on that because that's my thoughts on it.
And I'm very protective of my family.
And that's just how I've always been.
So take what I say with a grain of salt.
Maybe Kendall will have something nicer to say.
Well, and I will admit I've never had anything that blatantly like rude, I guess that was

(33:49):
ever said.
Mine are much less toned down than that.
In regards to things like I think, I mean, and you've heard these things too, but they're
in a better place or oh, they're not in pain anymore.
And yes, I can see how those are well-meaning, but they don't help you feel better.
And oftentimes it doesn't really add anything.

(34:15):
It's just like they're saying it to make themselves feel better.
And I had to come to that realization of like, they're not saying that for my benefit, they're
saying it for their benefit.
And I just had, you hear it so much from so many different people eventually.
It's like, they don't know what else to say.
We're not a culture really taught how to talk about death, how to deal with death, how to

(34:35):
react and support each other in these situations.
And so I had with the comments I've heard for myself, but yeah, in those situations,
like I had, there was one person in my life who decided at Christmas, it was a great time
for them to talk mad shit about my dad, a man who is buried in the ground.
And I would find that inexcusable.

(34:57):
I'd be like, you think Christmas is a good time to rag on somebody?
You think of the season of love and kindness and giving is the time to hate on other people?
Well, that says a lot more about you than it does about me.
And my thing was just like, if you don't like the person, especially the person who's dead,
you don't ever have to talk about them.

(35:17):
Keep their name out of your mouth.
Leave it alone.
They're dead.
They can't do anything to you anymore.
You have no reason to act.
They're still coming after you.
So I mean, that was one situation and it wasn't even directly to me, but I had heard about
somebody saying that about my dad.
And I was like, you know what?
That's on them.
That says more about their hateful heart than it does about my dad's very kind and giving

(35:41):
one.
I'll be honest that my brain didn't register the well-meaning, but insensitive comments.
My brain just went to insensitive.
And I think I do actually have a different answer for like well-meaning and insensitive.
But also I think sometimes those things to them might be well-meaning.
But there aren't just insensitive comments made.
Those are hard to deal with.

(36:02):
So that's my answer for that.
For well-meaning, I think it's a little different because if they are actually coming from a
good place, it doesn't always come out that way.
I think I said recently someone told me, oh, God knew that you could handle losing your
parents and your sister.
So he only does that to people that can survive that.

(36:22):
And I get from a very religious standpoint that that might be something that another
super religious person likes to hear.
And that might give them solace.
That might give them those feels.
For me, that someone that believes in something, one, you don't even know my religion, right?

(36:44):
You don't know what I believe in.
So to go off the bat and say that, I think you want to know who you're giving that to.
Because that's a very bold statement.
You might believe that with your whole chest, but what if I'm Buddhist?
You don't know what I am.
I could be anything.
So as someone that's religious but also I feel more spiritual in a way, I believe in

(37:06):
being a good person and doing good in this world.
But for me, that was like, I don't really like that.
I don't want to think that he chose me to do this shit too.
I don't like thinking that.
Yeah.
It's a weird justification for pain and suffering.
That's no reason to justify.
I personally don't align with that like that.

(37:28):
But I also knew that this person was saying something that they felt would be very helpful
to me.
And I think that's where a lot of these religious things come from.
They're in a better place or blah, blah, blah, blah.
And for them, that might be what helps them accept it.
My mom really leaned into religion.

(37:49):
She was always religious, but she leaned into more when she was sick and my sister was sick.
So those things I think helped her feel a little better because of leaning into that.
I think there's also some bitterness in me of like really leaning more into religion
where I feel like you lean into other things like medicine.
There's things that I have that also affect how I feel now.

(38:10):
I think I don't take, depending on what they say, if it comes off mean but it's well meaning
to them, I won't take that well.
If it's something like that, as someone that has more time away from it, I can be like,
I know that you mean well, but maybe don't say that to people.
Maybe say it to people that you know for sure it's going to land well.

(38:32):
Because for someone else, that might be exactly what they need to hear.
I'm not saying that's not.
I'm just saying you need to know who you're giving that type of saying comfort to for
it to land in a way that you do.
Because you don't want to cause someone pain, right?
And I don't think they were.
And I think it's just, if it's well meaning, depending on what they say, I'm not as sensitive

(38:54):
about it now that I can take it for what it is and see it as a big picture.
How do you communicate your needs to your friends and family?
I think for one, it's going to be hard at first.
We're a very independent culture and society.
So for me, I had to get over this hurdle of like, you're going to need help and support.

(39:14):
You got to get over this like independent mentality that you're going to get through
grieving on your own.
I'm better about communicating now to my friends and family because I'm now just very blunt
about it.
I don't try to sugarcoat how I say things.
It's easier for me just to come out and say like, hey, I'm really tired today.
I don't want to go to this thing.
Or hey, I'm feeling very lonely today.

(39:38):
Can you go and do something with me?
Even if it's just like grocery store shopping, you know, like I've gotten better with it.
It was not easy for me though, at first.
In some sense, I think like grief made me feel smaller and quieter and isolated.
But fortunately I have a good support system around me that constantly kept checking in.

(40:00):
I've grown a lot through my grieving journey.
And so find the ways you like to communicate.
That might be phone call, that might be text, if it's email, whatever.
Find those ways, the medium, how you need to communicate.
Sometimes it's just in person and that's just better for you.
And that's great.
I'm also like a verbal processor.
If you haven't noticed why we are on a podcast, I'm verbally processing a lot of my grief

(40:21):
as we talk about it.
But like even just communicating that like right then and there being like, I couldn't
process a lot of things of my grief until we started this podcast and I could bounce
things off of you and get new perspectives, that is a part of it.
I needed to figure out that way to communicate that.
I think also you and I have mentioned in this podcast, but also in the past ones, like even

(40:41):
if it's awkward, lean into it.
If you need support, if you need help, don't feel awkward about it.
It's going to feel awkward, but just lean into it.
It's going to be better on the other side.
It's better to communicate it awkwardly than not communicate it at all and try to keep
things like perfect and pretty, if that makes sense.
Yeah, when it was more recent, one, it's like a new experience, right?

(41:02):
And then I can't lose people.
And so it's a lot of emotions.
And it's like when you don't know like quote, how you're supposed to feel, you don't know
how you're supposed to handle it.
There's not like a blueprint.
And even if there was that might not work for you, right?
Like what works for you might not work for me and vice versa and for everyone else.
So I think because of that and because I heard so many mixed opinions on what things should

(41:24):
look like or how I should be doing and all these things, that I think I didn't feel that
confidence in my choices and what I was feeling and what I felt was right.
That I didn't know what to ask for.
I didn't know what I even needed because I was just getting so jumbled up into what everyone
else thought I needed.
Especially I think with like my sister, I think everyone was like overly worried.

(41:46):
But because of that, it's like, you know, there's so many different opinions on what
she'd be doing that I didn't have the quiet to like, what do I need?
What is good for me in this situation?
What steps do I need to take?
So I don't think I felt very bold in doing that.
Even last year when I didn't go to the Christmas party.

(42:06):
And that was, I think the first year that I did that, besides if I was like out of town
and I didn't publicly like really address that.
No, I just like didn't.
And I think I told like my brother, my brother, my cousin, but I think, I think they even
told my other cousin like, oh, she's not going.
I didn't like publicly say it.
And I think it's like, just this year, like, I can just be honest, like it makes me more
sad to go.

(42:27):
And I want people to know that it's not the sad thing that I'm doing.
It's like the thing that's making me happier by making this choice and feeling comfortable.
But I think we're going to do an episode on this in the new year too.
It was like, grief could really take away your confidence in so many ways because it
tears you down.
And so it's, it's hard in so many ways to feel confident in just what you're feeling

(42:48):
and your thoughts.
So I think you really just need to say the thing and stand on it and, and know it.
But I think it takes a while to actually know what you want and what you need and kind of
silence whatever other thoughts are going on for people that think that you might need
something.
Yeah, I completely agree with you, Rachel.
The next one, I think we kind of touched on this a little bit already, but how are you

(43:11):
managing holiday gatherings when you feel emotionally fragile?
I don't go.
For me, it is deciding what I feel is right.
So like I said this year, I for Christmas Eve, instead of going to the big party, I'm
going to make my food and stay home and do the things that make me feel happy and at

(43:31):
peace for the day because I don't feel like talking as much and doing the thing.
It's not even just like the day.
It's like doing the thing that we used to do just without them.
That doesn't feel right.
That part I don't like.
That part I don't want to repeat currently.
Like I said, it could change, but that part I don't want to do.

(43:52):
I felt that for so many years, but I just didn't feel like I could say it.
It was a hard thing walking around feeling like I really don't want to be here and then
realizing so don't.
If you don't want to, don't.
I'm still going to spend holiday time with family just doing different things, not doing

(44:14):
the things that I normally did.
I think you have to decide if it's something that will be good for you to be around family.
Maybe it's like, I'm just going to be here, but I'm going to be watching Christmas movies
and not really talking.
You can be present without being really present.
You can decide what works for you.
I think it is a hard time.

(44:34):
It really is.
There's no solution for that.
You need to figure out what works best for you and then just stand on it.
That's what I'm doing, but it's taken me a long time to even feel that at all.
Yeah.
I kind of have this, I kind of dropped some of these steps throughout already, but I think
like, here's my patent pending three prong approach.

(44:57):
You're at the holiday thing already.
You're there.
The grief is happening.
It is hitting.
I think one, just like communicating to the host because the host worries.
The host is doing a lot of things at once and they want to make sure everybody's happy.
To see somebody sad, they're going to assume it's their fault, even if it's not.
I think just saying like, hey, I'm emotional.

(45:18):
It's not anything anybody did.
I'm just really emotional about my whoever loss.
99% of the time, they're going to be very understanding of that and they're going to
be like, oh my gosh, of course.
I think if you need to step aside, step into a quiet room or go outside and just have that
moment to let that grief hit you, if you need to have a full on cry session, that's a good
time to do it.

(45:40):
I think I used to be very embarrassed to cry even in front of my own family.
I've gotten to cry all the time now in front of my family.
But if you're embarrassed by crying, step aside, let it happen.
Just feel it.
Clean yourself back up.
Decide if you want to go back into the party or if you want to just leave and tell a host,
like, hey, thank you.
This was lovely, but I can't handle this actually.

(46:02):
And I'm learning this right now.
I also think specifically, family dinners are really hard for me when, especially Thanksgiving
and everyone's like, I'm so thankful and I'm so grateful and everything is so beautiful
and nice.
It's when I get that pang and you're in the middle of a family dinner, like, what are
you to do?
Right?
I just tell people I'm about to start crying and just let me feel it.

(46:25):
And these are happy tears, sad tears, but they're about this person.
I think a lot of people, if they know you're about to cry, they're more prepared for the
crying rather than surprise waterworks.
Because I've been a lot more, I try to be a lot more better about telling people, hey,
I'm about to cry.
I'm feeling emotional.
And that way they're like, okay, so I need to prepare to support this person.

(46:47):
And I think specifically, if you're stuck in a family dinner and you can't flee, that's
just something to do.
Like, hey, it's about to happen.
If they love that person too, they're going to understand.
They're going to be like, yeah, I've been thinking about this person too.
I've been thinking that there's an empty chair with their name on it.
And so I think just like admission to that emotional fragility is a huge stake.

(47:07):
But yeah, it's really dependent on how you want to handle it.
Because people who don't like crying, they do not want to be in these situations.
I totally get it.
Do not like crying in front of people.
But now I feel much more comfortable crying in front of my family.
And they get it.
They get it.
They understand because they're like, she's clearly very aware her dad's not here today.
Yeah.
I think people say the holidays, it's like seeing the empty chair.

(47:33):
And I think that elicits a lot of emotion.
I've mentioned, I think in the last few episodes, I have a really big family overall.
So our family parties were always big.
So it wasn't really like sitting down, eating around a table where you're like, oh, I noticed
they're not at this table.
So I don't really have that thought in my head because they'd be big parties.

(47:54):
And so it's like, everyone's just sitting in random places.
We're sitting on the ground.
We're sitting on the couch.
You're sitting throughout the living room, the deck.
Everyone just scattered.
And you're just kind of sitting and eating wherever you can in the most comfortable spot.
But it's a big party.
So I don't have that imagery.
And I don't know in the future if that might change.
I feel like the family parties are a lot smaller.

(48:15):
I definitely think the generation before were way better at getting us all together.
And we would have these huge parties.
And now we don't have them as often or really ever as much.
They're smaller.
They're probably bigger than a lot of people have for other parties just because we're
a big overall group.

(48:37):
But yeah, I don't have that association to events because it's like, we're sitting in
a corner.
Wherever you can get space is where you sit.
The next question that we have here is, which I already mentioned, I already had my answer,
but do you think it's okay to skip different holiday events?
And for me, that's yes.

(48:57):
But Kendall, you go.
Yeah, 100%.
You can skip events.
You are not obligated to go to anything you don't want to.
I think sometimes you don't have to give anybody an answer to on why you don't want to go.
But I find people are very understanding if you do say, hey, this is a very griefy day
for me.
I'm feeling very emotional about my loss.

(49:19):
And they're like, oh yeah.
Every kind person is going to be like, of course, yeah, that makes sense.
Only weird people are like, I can't believe you're not going to go to this thing because
of your grief.
People who get it, which is I think what half the world has lost somebody, they're going
to understand.
The holidays are very steeped in emotion, a very high grief time.

(49:43):
And if they don't understand, then that's on them.
They can take that up with the Lord.
That's not on you.
You're just doing the best thing you can do for your grief.
And I'd say like, I think there is something nice about deciding what's good for you.
But I always say to always just think of like, check into yourself if you're over doing it.

(50:06):
Because I think there's also just a part of you that can become a recluse that doesn't
participate in anything because it just, so many things suck.
You feel sad without them.
The outside world just feels really tough.
And I think there is that line that you may want to make sure that you're not crossing
of just removing yourself from experiencing life and the world.

(50:27):
So when you make that decision, decide also is like, okay, if I don't feel good about
the big event, maybe I'll grab coffee with family while they're in town or I'll eat with
them or do something so that you're still experiencing good moments.
But maybe you're just not at the thing that feels really hard right now.
I think there's some nuance in it.

(50:49):
I never want to give it any advice where it's like, it will lead you to just taking yourself
away from the joys of the world and not just during the holiday season, but just the joys
that you can experience living your life and trying to live a beautiful life and the good
things that can happen once you re-enter the world and not just accept all the bad things
that have happened.

(51:09):
We're not only focused on the bad things that happened.
So that's just something to consider is like know where you are and make sure you don't
just kind of go into that because I think you do miss out on a lot.
And I always say like, we deserve to live a good life.
We deserve to live a beautiful life.
Even if so many things have happened that are really painful and sad, just something
to keep in mind.
Rachel, how can people create or change traditions to make them feel a little less painful around

(51:36):
the holidays?
I think it's a little bit personal for that, but I think creating new traditions that I've
seen a lot of people say is actually something that might feel less painful than returning
to traditions that exist.
And that might take you time to want to do the traditions without them.
But I think I only see positive things of creating new traditions because I think it's

(51:59):
you one choosing your life.
It's you choosing to continue celebrating in a way that feels good to you.
I think it's you choosing you, which I think is a really important thing to do.
And it's not an easy thing to do always.
So I think creating new traditions, I think, is a great way because for me, the reason
I don't go to a family party is I just think, my sister would be here.

(52:21):
I was just looking at photos and it's like, photos of my sister during Christmas.
And it's like, that sucks so bad.
I don't know when that's not going to suck.
And I just don't feel like doing that to myself.
And I've gone many years and I realize I don't feel comfortable.
And I just think about, I want to be home, cozy watching movies.
And I'm like, then let me just skip to that part.

(52:43):
If that's what I'm yearning for at this party that feels really empty and cold without her,
then I'm going to do that instead.
So I think you have to figure out what is going to make you feel good.
And it's like, my dog is so cute.
If I look at his face, he just brings me joy.
And so why won't I just do the thing that's happy and we're joyful together?

(53:06):
That's good for me.
So I think the creating an adjuditions to me is only a positive.
It's you choosing how to continue on.
And it could be some of the things could be in their honor, right?
It doesn't have to be completely without them in mind.
It could be like, they always wanted to cut a fresh Christmas tree.
So now we're going to do that every year as a thing that we're actually going to do.

(53:27):
Because I think part of losing someone, you realize all the things of like, we wanted
to do this.
We were waiting to do this together.
We were waiting to do that.
And you don't know what's going to happen.
And it might never happen.
And I think power is to those that do the thing that they say they're going to do and
just go for it, right?
And so I think you can create a tradition that's either with them in mind or just for

(53:51):
you, either is really positive.
Changing traditions, I think is a little more tricky, right?
Because the adjudition is always going to feel different without them.
You're going to feel that without them.
And for people that lost someone that may be like the anchor in their family parties,
that might be an anchor in the food creation, that's a really hard thing.
Even my grandma passed away when I was like seven.

(54:15):
Both of my grandmas passed around at that time.
But one of my grandmas, she made so much food.
And I wish at the time I had appreciated all the things that she made and learned with
her.
And at the time I didn't have any responsibilities really.
She'd make me like real lumpia, but I didn't really have responsibilities to make a family
party happen or bring food at all.

(54:36):
I was like seven.
But I'm sure that at family parties, that was probably a big change that I didn't personally
really feel of people having to step up and shift.
But that's probably when we stopped really having Filipino food at parties because the
lolas passed away and they're the ones that took the time to actually make the food.

(54:58):
And after that, any Filipino food that showed up was because someone bought it versus making
it versus before, the lolas, which means grandma in Tagalog.
But they would just make it and spend the hours on it.
And now that I'm teaching myself to make food that I know I've made sumon, which is a Filipino
rice dish for my mom and her honor, I made it for her birthday.

(55:21):
When I do those things, I'm like, I get why we weren't making this all the time.
It's a lot of fucking work.
It's a lot of time.
But I know how much love was put into making that food.
And so I do that for holidays.
I put in the work to make this food because I know how much love goes into it and how
much tradition goes into it.
But changing traditions is a little bit personal.

(55:44):
Might take a more reflection and time to figure out because it's like, how do you do it without
them?
And even just taking on like, am I going to make, like you said, your sister makes fudge
better than your dad.
And it's like, I'm sure it's a little bittersweet.
It's not that your dad did, but you're doing it better.
And it's also like a sweet thing.
It's cute that she's doing it and she has skill to surpass what your dad was doing.

(56:07):
But I'm sure there's probably a little bit of mixed feelings in that.
So I think for change traditions, go at your own pace of changing it.
Maybe you need to skip it.
Maybe you need to figure out how to make it feel good.
And sometimes just realizing like, I'm just helping them live on through this tradition
is enough to make it feel better than it is sad.
A lot of it's kind of reframing.

(56:28):
You kind of have to, I don't want to say trick, but you have to like change the way you think
about things sometimes.
It's not just sad.
It's like you're keeping them present in today's traditions when they've been gone for a long
time.
And I think there's a lot of, I think that's a wonderful thing that you love them so much
that they're still present in whatever way you feel comfortable.

(56:49):
And I think that's a great thing versus like, there's nothing at the failing parties that
represent them anymore.
There's nothing there that has their memory.
And I think even if it might feel hard at first, it's a beautiful thing to have those
traditions still continue for them.
Yeah.
I completely agree.
While you were talking, I was like trying to think of what were some examples, because
I know I had some examples of traditions that we've done a little differently.

(57:12):
And I think I came up with at least two that I think people can steal or they can build
upon.
That this is kind of like how our family has taken a directive to build upon or create
our own traditions.
I think I mentioned a while back in a holiday episode that a new tradition that we had done
in the past was instead of like a Thanksgiving feast, because my brother and sister would

(57:35):
be going to a lot of feasts if they were expected to come to my house too and then also eat.
And so my sister recommended, why don't we all like make our own variations of different
holiday cocktails?
And so there was like four of us, we all had different recipes we brought and we all tried
each other's cocktails for Thanksgiving.
Like it was in the evening.
So it was kind of like, it felt a little more chic.
It felt like we were grownups.

(57:56):
Like it felt like something we never got to do because when we were younger underneath
our parents' house, like we weren't able to drink.
And so this just felt like something completely new that we got to do.
And it was still very festive.
And then for a change in tradition, this week or this Thanksgiving throughout the week just
conveniently overlapped with International Chess Week.

(58:17):
And I've been wanting to learn how to play chess.
My brother knows how to play chess.
And so all week long, because we both had off of school and work, we played chess every
day.
Partly so I could learn, but he had someone to play with and we watched the Queen's Gambit.
I was keeping up with different chess players while they were playing chess.
And this was a new thing for me.
But my brother would mention multiple times like, oh, this was a move dad made, or this

(58:42):
was a move, this is how dad won against a chess game against me.
And for him, I never realized that his connection with chess was a connection with our dad.
Because I never played chess with my dad.
And I had no clue that my brother had this connection relationship with him.
And so I had asked him, is this something you would want to do every year?
Because I think International Chess Week just overlaps with the week of Thanksgiving.

(59:02):
And he was like, yeah, this has been so much fun.
We got excited.
I didn't know Chess Week was happening over Thanksgiving.
So I was like, next year I know.
I'll plan.
I'll plan a charcuterie board that's going to look like a chess board.
It'll be so much fun.
I was like, let's make this exciting rather than thinking, oh, how sad it is that our
dad's not at Thanksgiving dinner.
Why not take a whole different spin on it?

(59:24):
We'll spend a week celebrating chess and my brother's relationship with my dad playing
chess.
And we'll just try different things every year.
That has some anticipation.
It doesn't have this holiday connotation to it.
It was just fun.
I'm still waiting to win a game.
I'm still trying to practice.
But it was just something that my brother and I got to spend a lot of time doing.

(59:45):
And he had a great time.
And so yeah, that was something we were able to twist and make it our own.
As we're closing out, we have the last few questions.
This one's about how do you know when to get help during the holidays?
And one thing that me and Kendall talked about that we really like is finding support groups.

(01:00:07):
And we found it a really healing space for us.
And something we didn't realize that we really needed, and it was an outlet that we needed.
If you're looking for like, where can you find support groups for grieving during the
holidays?
So we use the dinner party.
And that has been really helpful for us.
I think they charge like $5 a month, I think.

(01:00:29):
I don't know if it's required or donation based to do that.
And they offer either you can have a grief buddy that they pair you up with, or you can
join a grief group that exists.
And if you don't find one that you like, or that like connects to what you're looking
for, you can create your own.
And then they have like a community to reach out to of people that are also looking for

(01:00:49):
that.
So it can be very specific to what you've lost.
I didn't find what I was looking for.
So I created my own and Kendall's in that one as well.
So that has worked well for us.
I know you can also find other, a lot of hospice hospitals or hospice, I don't know if they're
called hospitals, but organizations, they also, a lot of them offer like virtual support
groups or in person support groups.

(01:01:11):
So that's something to think about and consider for resources.
I would just Google now there's like more apps popping up, some podcasts, hold some
like have support groups.
We have a Facebook group, which I don't really call like a support group, but it's a Facebook
group that you can join that will have linked in the show notes.
And that's just for grievers to like share their feeling and kind of vent with each other.

(01:01:33):
We created this basically for around the holidays, we're going to keep it open.
But yeah, that that's different things.
But yeah, I would look up on Google for the exact thing.
There's also a bunch of Facebook groups that exist as well for like every different type
of loss that you can find.
So there's a lot of different things that you can join, whether you want to do it in
person, virtual, or just like through groups like Facebook.

(01:01:58):
But what about you, Kendall?
Yeah, I think if you're in a bigger city, there's probably, I think in most areas, there's
a lot of religious support groups.
And if that's what you're looking for, and that's what you need, that's great.
If you're looking for more like agnostic or more like diverse or inclusive type of support
groups, I think bigger cities will just have some that exists on their own.

(01:02:20):
But I know there are some I've seen with some therapists, if they work specifically with
grievers, they might have, and if you say you cannot, you don't have the resources for a
therapist, they might direct you towards a grief support group.
And they're like, you know, I have some clients that are in a grief group.
You know, they do it on their own, but they're all clients.

(01:02:41):
So that's an option.
I think if you're really looking for something in your smaller area where, I know you and
I both live in big metros, and so there's a lot more resources available in bigger cities.
Another one that one of our friends mentioned was a death cafe.
These also I think exist in some larger cities, but it's just like open conversations about

(01:03:02):
death.
So you might not meet your needs specifically to talk about grief, but if you're someone
who needs to just like explore the concept and topic of death with other people who are
interested or curious or wondering or like they work in that professional space, I think
that's another great option to just become more educated and versed in that world.

(01:03:23):
And for some people, it really quells their anxiety to learn more about death and dying.
For some people, it's not a good option.
So know where you stand on that and what is going to help you kind of meet your own griefy
needs.
And that kind of goes easily into this next one of when do you know you need professional
help for your grief?
How do you find professional help for your grief?

(01:03:45):
What are your recommendations on that, Rachel?
So I've actually never gone to a therapist, which probably surprised people, also surprised
like my brother's a therapist.
We process our things very differently, I think.
So I don't know if I'm like the great person to ask for that for me.

(01:04:07):
I'm someone that's very reflective and I really take time with what I'm thinking.
I used to never like voice it, but I've always been like a very reflective person and digest
my thoughts.
I've mentioned it before where my dad dealt with severe depression and I watched that
growing up.
And because of that, it's given me this weird thing where I don't want to say bounce back,

(01:04:28):
but like anytime that I get stuck in this sad place for like longer than a day where
I'm just like, oh, I'm just being a blob, I get up and I do something.
I change that whether it's like I need a shower, I need to do something.
I've always been that way and it's because of him and I seeing him grow up and realizing
how much he missed out in life because he dealt with depression that it's given me anti-depression

(01:04:55):
for myself that I'm sick.
I can't catch myself because I'm like, I can't do that.
And maybe that's him and his spirit that's like helping me too.
I don't know, but it's one of those things where I've never been stuck in a place like
that.
Obviously I feel sad, I cry, but I've also been able to nod to when I feel like this
is too much or when I felt like this is like, I need to change this.

(01:05:18):
I need to figure it out on my own.
And it's a weird thing where I'm sure people are like, oh, you should go to therapy, but
I think you need to know when you need to go therapy and the support group is something
that has been good for me.
I'm just speaking it out loud is something that I think I needed to do.
But looking back, I don't think I could have gone through what I've gone through in any

(01:05:39):
quicker of a process.
And I think I did the best I could.
And I don't think anyone would have made that better for me because I don't know how else
I could have handled losing my dad, my sister, like a year, less than two years later, like
a year and a few months.
And then my mom got cancer like a year after my sister passed away and like passed away.
There was no way that I was going to go through all of that with the quickness because that

(01:06:04):
is just a huge loss to me.
And I never was someone that like, yeah, after my sister passed away, for a few days I wasn't
eating and then I was only eating cookies.
Like yeah, there was things that I wasn't doing that was great.
But I feel like I needed to kind of go on that journey to pick myself back up because
at the end of the day, no one's going to fix your grief for you or fix your situation for

(01:06:27):
you but yourself.
And I needed to do that my own way and figure it out.
And no one telling me that I should be doing something different was going to change it
because I had, it wasn't just like, I had family being like, oh, maybe you should do
this or that.
But anytime I did something that I didn't feel right with, it just didn't help.
So I can't tell you when to go seek it.
But I think if you're feeling really sad or feeling to the point of self harm or anything

(01:06:50):
like that, like definitely go get help.
But in a Go E!
Send previous episodes, like make a plan for the future.
You know, like if you think that you might be at risk of something, like make a plan
of resources and stuff for help.
But yeah, I think it's just depends on everyone else, but I can't tell you when to seek it
for sure because I've never gone, that's just not been my path.

(01:07:12):
I agree with what you say and so much of it is spurred by our own like mental health and
taking initiative.
I think the first step is like, if you're in a very bad place, knowing that like you're
worth help, you're worth seeking help, you're worth helping.
Obviously, you like you need to be the first person to say something to somebody like,

(01:07:35):
I need resources or I need to get in touch with somebody like the agency is on you.
It was me and my sister a couple months after my dad passed when we both realized like we
are not helping each other because we aren't helping ourselves and you can't put on your
oxygen mask somebody else, you have to put yours on first.
So we both started therapy and when I went through the questionnaire, they're like, oh,

(01:07:58):
you're very severely depressed.
And it was situational.
They're like clearly an isolated event has caused your severe depression.
And so that's when I was put on SSRIs and it's been great for me.
I was definitely also somebody questionable about antidepressants and using prescriptions.
I was someone very like adverse to it.
I can sing a different tune.

(01:08:19):
I know there's a lot of people that don't want to do that and that's totally your choice
and that is totally fine.
Like you do not need to be prescribed anything if you don't want to be.
For myself, it was very eye opening.
It was like in my own experience, it was like it was a gray life I was living.
And then all of a sudden I felt like I was seeing color again.
I think like a few things that help.

(01:08:39):
I'm like I myself have used the different, not like all of them, but I've used a hotline
before where I was just like really lonely and sad.
Nothing of like concern, but I did feel like I feel like I should just talk to somebody
right now.
I don't have anybody to talk to.
So like if you are in a very bad place and you're having like suicidal thoughts, obviously

(01:09:00):
call like the suicide hotline and we will have that linked below, but you can also call
or text 988.
I didn't know you could do that.
24 seven.
So that's pretty easy.
988.
There's also like specific hotlines for like veterans or if you're a teenage kid or if
you're experiencing like domestic abuse, there's a lot of specific hotlines for various situational

(01:09:23):
things.
I think in like this case, obviously the suicide crisis hotline, there's another one like specific
towards mental health.
What's it called?
The substance abuse and mental health hotline, the SAMHSA.
So yeah, I think like you just Google like mental health hotline and they'll all just
start popping up.

(01:09:45):
And like Rachel said, if you create a plan that helps you get all these organized, like
if you need to save them in your phone, if you need to create like a notes list in your
phone where you can access it when you really need it.
I would also say look at like what is regional in your area.
Because you might have very specific resources located to where you are in front of the situation

(01:10:07):
you're in.
And so yeah, I go to a therapist, I'm on antidepressants, I've called the hotlines, we use this stuff
and can say like it's helped me.
But now I'm not going to say like it's going to help everybody.
But you know, if you need those, they're available.
They're there to help people.
And so we just want to make sure that we can't speak to anything professionally as we're

(01:10:28):
not professionals.
But we're working through our grief and we know that like you can also work through your
grief and we're in this together.
And we're just hoping that you can, you know, find a little bit of joy one more day in your
life.
Yeah.
And I'm not against therapy.
I just, it's just not for you.
Interest for me.
Even talked to my brother about some stuff.
He was like, oh, wow, you're very introspective.

(01:10:51):
Like you're very like your takeaways from things.
Like he was surprised.
Even though he's always like therapy, therapy, therapy is the best, you know, because he
loves therapy.
He's a therapist.
But I think I just, I've proven myself.
Also I think what was hard for me is like I was so protective of my grief and who I
talked about it to that who was comfortable that like talking to a stranger to me was

(01:11:14):
really not something I felt comfortable with.
Like talking to someone about it was just like not something that appealed to me because
I was someone that like, this is my thing and I, you don't know them and I don't want
to talk about it to someone that doesn't know them at all.
So like that was kind of my thought.
I just didn't like it.

(01:11:34):
I was very protective of who I was around when I talked about it.
Like it was just something that I didn't, didn't like, but yeah, that just hasn't been
my path, but I think it does help a lot of people.
And I think if you're feeling very stuck, that could be a good route for you as well.
And like, if you just feel like you're not making any forward movement or anything, like

(01:11:54):
definitely consider all options, right?
It could be therapy, it could be something else.
It could be like, I'm going to get back into fitness and work out and like take care of
myself in different ways.
Like it can be whatever you need that's positive for yourself.
That is like the thing that helps you with your grief.
So definitely not anti-grief.
It's just like when I considered it, I was just like, it just wasn't what I was feeling.

(01:12:15):
And like I said, my dad somehow, I think he gave me like a gift of just like reflection
of seeing that.
And just my childhood that I'm like, I saw what it could do and I just refuse to do that.
And I accept when I'm sad, I don't think it's a bad thing to feel sadness, which I used
to think like, oh, I can't be sad.
I've accepted where I feel sad, but also know that like I can seek joy and I can seek happiness

(01:12:39):
as well.
It's to not let myself be a blob, which is why I don't like the phrase like I rotted
today because I'm like, no, I refuse.
I don't love, I'm not rotting.
I'm relaxing and rejuvenating and then I'm getting back to life.
Yeah.
And I think like there is something to be said.
I think culturally we do have this awareness around mental health collectively in this

(01:13:01):
nation and yet we're very quick to say like therapy is the solution to that, that issue.
And I'm also very aware that like therapy is cost prohibitive to a lot of people.
Like a lot of people would love to go to therapy and they don't have the financial resources
to go to it.
So like what is somebody to do when you're in that situation?
And for like a time being when me and my, I think my brother and sister, we weren't

(01:13:26):
on health insurance.
There was this resource that I found and it's something like I do, I advocate because if
you need it, it's a very affordable option.
It's called open path psychotherapy collective.
It's a bunch of therapists on a website.
You pay like 65 for your lifetime.
Like it's a membership fee and then they have like $30 a session if you're a student and

(01:13:50):
then they kind of like weigh it between 40 and $60 kind of based on your income level.
But it's a bunch of therapists that really do want to help people and they cover different
things you need to like talk about if it's, it doesn't have to be grief is what I'm trying
to say.
There's other options.
It's really easy to get involved.
It's really easy to find somebody.

(01:14:11):
I think it's a good option for people who don't have health insurance, don't have the
financial resources to afford therapy.
I just always say this as a resource because I don't ever want anybody to feel like, well,
I can't afford therapy.
So what am I to do?
This is an option available and if it helps, then great.
If it doesn't, there's always other options to look at, but there's just a lot of people

(01:14:31):
don't know about this.
And so I try to share it when I can just because if it does help at least one person, then
it's worth it.
Yeah.
Also recommend, well also, I mean, don't get a dog if you're not going to keep them for
life and take care of them and whatever happens, you're ride or die.
Don't get a dog if you're not that, but Jameson has been an amazing asset to my life and you

(01:14:56):
can't see him, but he's on my lap.
If you're not watching this on video, he's currently on my lap because I've, we've been
recording for two hours.
So he's like, that's way too long to not be petting me, making this about me, which is
fair.
He knows what you are.
I think on that note, yeah, he's gently telling us it's time to wrap the episode.

(01:15:19):
Even though we mentioned resources already, you can find additional resources in the show
notes.
We have book club episodes every Monday.
We would love for you to join us there and read a grief book with us.
We could all be reading a little bit more.
So hopefully in the new year, if reading is on your, what are those things called?

(01:15:39):
New Year's resolutions?
Yeah.
Reading is a New Year's resolution.
Read a book with us.
It's been a lot of fun.
We've read a lot of books this year and then we'll have new episodes.
We'll have, I think a few more holiday episodes and then we'll start season two in 2025.
And then as you read along these grief books with us, you can join us on Fable.

(01:16:00):
It's an app where you can talk about the books, but we love to talk to you there as well.
Yeah, and you can follow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at TwoGirlsWithGriefPod.
You can also subscribe to our sub stack where we send out bi-monthly newsletters with griefy
features as well as a few other things.
And you can always email us at twogirlswithgrief.gmail.com if you have questions, just comments, want

(01:16:24):
to reach out.
We love hearing from you.
And as always, if you could please share, rate, subscribe our show.
It really helps us get the word out and get more listeners.
We appreciate everyone that has already, but yes, if you have made it this far, we appreciate
if you hit those buttons, like, subscribe, five stars hopefully.

(01:16:44):
If not for me, for this cute boy that's on my lap, Jameson, my fluffer.
If you're watching this on the video, you can see this fluffy little animal on my lap
who's not that small actually.
It's not that convenient that he's on.
Yeah, and we'll see you all next week.
Bye.

(01:17:05):
Bye.
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