In this episode, Carm shares her journey of creating Girls Gotta Heal, inspired by her own experiences with grief and loss. Together, we explore the complexities of navigating grief, the importance of mental health, and the power of affirmations. Carm introduces her unique card deck designed to spark conversations about grief and emphasizes creating safe spaces for emotional healing. We also discuss anticipatory grief, the challenges of vulnerability, and the healing power of community, offering insights and support for anyone on their grief journey.
Check out more about Girls Gotta Heal here
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Did you experience loss at a young age
(00:02):
or struggle with compounded grief?
Let us introduce you to Carm.
She's a registered psychotherapist
and founder of Girls Gotta Heal.
Carm's mission is to help young women navigate loss
with resilience and grace.
Don't miss this conversation
for some great practical resources
and insights into her unique healing tools.
Welcome to the Two Girls with Grief podcast,
(00:40):
the podcast where we share our real
and raw experiences with grief.
Whether it's tears or laughter
or maybe a little bit of both,
we're here to figure it out in real time.
We are your hosts.
I'm Kendall Rogers.
And I'm Rachel Dwyer.
And while we're not professionals,
we are professional grievers.
Every Tuesday, we bring you honest conversations
(01:00):
that break down the stigma of grief,
one episode at a time,
because no one should have to grieve alone.
So grab a cup of coffee, settle in,
and let's navigate this journey together.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Carm.
We're so happy to have you.
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
We've been following your Girls Gotta Heal account
for a while now.
So we're so excited to finally get you on the podcast
(01:21):
and learn what you've been building.
So what inspired you to start Girls Gotta Heal?
And how would you say that it's evolved over the years?
So Girls Gotta Heal started quite a few years ago now.
It really started from me reaching a point
in my healing journey with my grief.
I had experienced a lot of losses,
(01:41):
including the loss of a friend, my dad being a huge one.
And I had reached a point in my healing
where I felt really empowered with my story.
I think that there's a really special point
when we do the healing work where we're like,
you know what, I really own my story.
I'm doing the work, I feel good about that.
And I was just ready to share my story
and connect with others because for a while,
(02:02):
I could not find anything on social media
that connected to my experience.
The age range was a little different.
The type of losses were different.
So I wanted to just create something
that I needed essentially.
So you've experienced a lot of loss.
You've obviously gone through a lot of grief.
What were the first steps that you took
(02:25):
to explore your grief and this mental health journey
and beginning to deal with all this loss and grief
that you were experiencing?
Me and my experience, it took me quite a long time
to reach that point and deal with my grief.
And I had listened to one of your podcast episodes
and I know you had experienced something similar to,
I think it was Rachel, like just saying that
it took you quite a while to actually start doing the work.
(02:46):
So that was my experience as well.
But for me, I had, my first step really was reaching out
to a counselor at my university
and just getting the courage to show up every week.
And that turned into me showing up for myself.
But yeah, there was a lot of like stigma
and my family about talking about mental health and grief.
So I really felt like if I wasn't going to do the work
(03:10):
and I wasn't going to make the change
then nothing was going to happen.
And I was just gonna stay stuck
and just be in darkness for a long time.
Yeah, the delayed dealing with it
is something that me and Kendall both did.
Mine was longer because my losses were farther away,
but we ended up kind of on the same path at the right time.
And that's how we met like in our grief support group
(03:31):
was like we both joined at the same time,
feeling that same thing,
like we need to do something different
and start dealing with our grief.
And that's when we joined the grief support group.
So we both were a little bit delayed.
I win the award for the longest.
So talking about that compounded grief,
I saw that you lost your friend,
you lost your father and your grandpa and your uncle
(03:52):
and you're a very close tight knit family.
How did you handle that compounded grief?
Because I know I didn't handle it.
I probably just didn't handle it.
I don't know well or bad.
I just like didn't handle it.
But looking at one, how you handled it at the time,
but now like years later,
do you wish you would handle it differently?
Because sometimes I try to look back like,
could I have done it sooner?
(04:13):
And I'm like, I actually don't think I could have,
but what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I think I also did not handle it.
I think when you go through multiple losses and trauma,
that it's just a numbing feeling
and how that looks like is different for each person.
And for me, I just went on autopilot.
I tried to at the time do things
that I thought were normal for an 18 year old.
(04:36):
And then there were other times where I isolated completely
and both of those didn't feel good.
So I don't know if I would have done anything different
because I've reached a point
where I'm really at peace with my journey.
And I think my younger self did the best job
that she possibly could have done.
That's a good way to word it.
I try to give myself grace for that too.
Cause I'm like, could I have come out earlier?
(04:58):
I don't know that I could have.
It's a lot.
It's when people keep dying, you're like,
I don't know how I was supposed to handle that.
So I definitely relate to that feeling.
And I think for me,
there's moments where I am human too.
And I compare myself to my peers and other people
and things that they're doing
and places that they're at in their life.
And I really feel like at times I'm behind,
(05:20):
but there was so much that I was going through
that my peers, my friends were not at the time.
And that put me at a disadvantage.
That stunted my development.
Yes, it's taken me a lot longer
to reach some of the places I wanted to.
But I also, like I said, wouldn't change the journey at all.
I think that could be another conversation.
Grief like changing your life.
(05:43):
Like me and Kendall talk about that a lot.
It just changes like what's important to you
and what interests you.
But then you see your friends that are like,
maybe climbing the corporate ladder
or doing all these things that you're not doing
because you've just been doing different stuff
and it's hard to not compare.
But at the same time you're like,
well, you didn't have both your parents
and then your sister died in four years.
(06:04):
So like maybe it's okay.
Like I'm doing the best I can
and I'm trying to do something positive.
And like, you know, Kendall's also passionate
about a lot of things too.
And career-wise, it just makes you think
about things differently for sure.
Yeah, we've talked about how do you even like date
in that time period.
And I was like, I was so focused on life and death situations.
(06:29):
The dating pool was not even a thing
I could tackle at the time
because I was just so overwhelmed with dealing
with what you deal with when you're watching somebody
slowly die, like that's a real heavy experience.
Yeah, I definitely connect with that too.
You mentioned in your blog that you were holding out
for hope and all those years that your father was sick.
(06:51):
Rachel and I both have similar experiences with that
with like dealing with anticipatory grief
and just how do you maintain that hope?
And then for that to fall through at the end
and it's like the ultimate, it's like,
it feels like the most ultimate like betrayal or let down.
Like, are you thinking, like if you work hard enough,
(07:12):
you try hard enough, you pour enough love into the situation,
like you're gonna come out good on the other side
and in all our situations, it sounds like it's safe.
So can you talk more about what that was like
when you have to face like that heartbreak
at the end of the road when that hope
like does it turn out the way you hoped for?
(07:34):
Yeah, you know what?
No one has really ever asked me this question before,
not even in conversation with friends.
So it's really me back and just remembering that feeling.
And I think that that was probably one of the most difficult
times and feelings that I've ever experienced in my life
because for me, we were really focusing on the progress
(07:55):
and like, you know, dad's gonna come home,
but then that would shift into, okay,
if he does get better, things are gonna look different.
So it was such an emotional roller coaster.
And then when it finally took a turn for the worse,
it was just such emotional torture.
It was the most devastating thing.
And you think about everything comes flooding in,
you start thinking about,
(08:16):
he's not gonna be here for this moment,
he's not gonna be here for this.
And then everything's going to change.
So I would say anticipatory grief is really tough
and it's something that it's really hard to prepare for.
It made me realize like some harsh realities of life.
And at the time I was 17, 18 years old.
(08:36):
So I just had such tunnel vision when you're younger,
you don't really see the world in the way that you do now
as an adult.
So that was kind of the turning point where I'm like,
my whole belief system is like shattered.
You have this belief that like, you know,
good things happen to good people.
And like, if you just pray about it, you be positive about it,
(08:56):
it's gonna work out and like,
we're gonna come out on the end.
And it was just like, what?
That doesn't happen?
That's not a thing that's not happening?
So that was really hard to accept.
That's something that being had all talk about too is like,
try to channel that lucky girl syndrome,
feeling manifest stuff.
(09:17):
And it's like, you try to rewire your brain
to only think positive things
and to like good things are coming.
And it's all gonna work out.
But it's really hard to one,
I don't think people look at my life and say like,
she's lucky, like Kendall lost her dad.
There's like, are people gonna say that's lucky?
But then to train your mind,
like everything's gonna work out
when you've experienced it in so many,
(09:38):
in such a high degree that it doesn't always work out.
And in a way that is extremely painful,
that doesn't go away.
It's really hard to be like, no, good things are coming.
And you know, I'm gonna be lucky
and I'm gonna attract all these things.
It's really hard to like pull yourself up and think that,
but it's like a constant mind shift for me to do that.
(10:01):
But I'm like really trying to be like,
good things are coming
and we're putting good things out there
and it's all gonna come back.
Yeah, I honestly think that there needs to be more of like,
well accepted balance between that
and also sitting in your feelings
and that it's very okay to be sad.
Because I think when people experience loss, grief,
trauma, something really like profound and huge,
(10:23):
they jump to like, okay, I need to do something.
Like I need to find a solution to that.
I need to be better.
I need to like, it's like, it's okay to just exist
and just be like, you're fine, you know?
Like you need to be able to feel what you're feeling
and then work toward that manifestation and all that.
But you can't rush those things either.
Like you have to be able to be okay sitting in discomfort
(10:46):
and a lot of people are not.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I feel like in that anticipatory timeframe,
it's like there are high highs and there are low lows
and I have never felt such range of emotions.
Even in that short frame of time, but even in a day,
it's like you get really good news
about their progress and their health
(11:07):
and then something detrimental will happen.
And it's like, that's how quickly things can change
in that time period before someone passes.
And it's just that drastic of an emotional shift.
Like I'm just like thinking back,
like, oh man, those were all hard times.
It took me until probably like last year
to I think sit in my feelings the most.
(11:28):
And I've said like, I haven't cried as much
as I have in the past year,
but I've also feel like I felt happier.
Like it's a weird thing of just like letting myself
feel the emotions and let it out when I need to
and being okay that like this is just a part of my life.
But then I also like feel the happiness more too.
So it's like a weird balance,
(11:48):
but like it makes sense to me now
that I'm kind of on this side of things.
So I'm excited to hear about these,
the next things that you've been creating,
which is first was the Affirmation Journal for Women.
So I wanna hear how you started that.
And then afterwards, I wanna learn about connecting
through grief, your deck cards that you made.
But first, can you tell us what inspired you
(12:08):
to write the Affirmation Journal for Women?
With the Affirmation Journal for Women,
that came at a time in my life
and also the progression of GGH of when I started,
a lot of the content was focused on
just the negative emotions of grief and sadness
and working with that, accepting it.
And I kind of went into this different version of myself
(12:30):
where I was making really empowering changes in my life.
I had left a job, I had zero plan,
and I was betting on myself.
And I'm like, I really wanna lean into this book
and creating action because for so long,
I spent a lot of time creating content around
working toward acceptance.
And for me, I was at a point where I was really accepting
(12:51):
of the things that have happened to me
and at peace with my journey and working on myself.
So I'm like, okay, action is next.
And I think affirmations are a really great way
to rework how we speak to ourselves.
Even if you don't believe it all the way in the moment,
it's a practice and it really contributes
to our self-worth, self-esteem.
(13:11):
So this journal contains 40 affirmations
and within the book, there are journal prompts,
activities that really like pair affirmation with action.
So you can say your affirmations, which are great,
but pairing it with action really like levels it up a notch.
(13:32):
So that's what you can expect in the affirmation journal.
It's something nice to chip away at every night,
like just focusing on one of the affirmations
and the activities.
I really wanted to put the focus on empowering people
wherever they were at in their journey
and whatever they experienced, not even necessarily great,
but just life transitions, womanhood,
(13:54):
and give them something to really work on.
That's amazing.
I love affirmations.
I try to do them more, but I think the action part
is also like a very necessary part
because you can say all the things,
but if you're doing nothing,
I don't think that things are gonna come towards you.
Maybe some people,
but I think it's more than just putting it out there.
It's like you putting yourself out there and doing the work.
(14:17):
Oh, it is a combination which I do think is often overlooked.
It's like, it's not just saying the thing.
It's saying it so often that you start believing it
and then you start taking action.
So that's amazing.
And we'll link it in our show notes as well.
But so now I'm excited to learn about the connecting
through grief deck card and we can test out two cards.
(14:37):
Yeah, so the deck,
that kind of evolved through just these feelings
and hearing from the GGH community, similar experiences.
What I experienced that people didn't feel comfortable
having conversations about their grief within their home,
within their relationships.
And I thought creating a card deck
would be a really nice icebreaker.
I've created the prompts for you.
(14:59):
You just have to go through them
and it really gives people the flexibility
to use the deck however they want.
If you're really in a space right now
with your healing where you just wanna zone in
and focus on yourself,
you don't really wanna be talking to anybody about it,
you can use them as journal prompts
or you can use them one-on-one with your partner
or you can use them in a group with your family.
So there's a lot of flexibility with it.
(15:20):
But a lot of the questions,
they're not necessarily just focused on grief,
they're focused on your relationship with yourself,
which I am a complete broken record about
in all of my content.
I always say it goes back to you
and it's your responsibility to work on your relationship
with yourself, nothing else is gonna work out
unless you really tune into yourself.
So a lot of these questions are prompting you
(15:43):
to look inward and see what you need.
That's so true.
That's so true.
It took me a while to get to that feeling.
So, or like not thinking about like how much work
you actually have to do on yourself.
It's tiring.
So, yes.
So this is the deck, the front of the deck.
Ooh, I love the colors.
(16:03):
Yeah.
I know it's really pretty.
Oh, gold.
Love it.
I'll pull two cards.
And so excited.
If your tears could talk, what would they say?
Oh, gosh.
The gas.
I was like, there's too many of us on the floor.
Like what would they think?
(16:26):
I feel like that brings up so many emotions.
Kendall, something come into your mind first.
Yeah.
Well, like, are you gonna be like,
well, like Rachel said, we're kind of,
or a couple of years away from our grief.
So I think this question would be very different
if I answered this immediately after my loss.
But right now, like where I am in life,
I would say like the tears I should be shedding right now
(16:50):
should be for happy things.
Like they should be happy tears and like joyful tears.
And not tears of stress or not tears
of like feeling worthless right now.
Like I think those are what my tears would say.
That's great.
I think for me, my tears now,
(17:11):
I mean, I think it's more like,
it's almost healing in a way.
Like you're always gonna miss your family.
You're always gonna wish they were here.
There's no cure for that.
And it's just sometimes when I'm really missing the most,
it's like, that's when the tears come.
And it's not like a long cry.
It's kind of just like a short,
like you're releasing the valve,
which is something that someone in our group support group
(17:33):
says and it's true.
It's like sometimes you just kind of need to like
open the valve a little bit and just let it out.
And then you feel better and you feel
almost like a weight is off your shoulders.
So I feel like that's more where my tears are now,
or just like I can address and like accept
that I really miss them.
And when I need to just like let that emotion out, I will.
(17:53):
So I feel like they're kind of like healing.
It's like coming to peace that the tears don't mean
that you're just like a sad, sad person.
It just means that you have sadness as part of your life
and your story, but it's not the only thing.
So I think it's now at this point, it's more of like,
I can acknowledge that that pain is there,
but it's like a healing, like I loved them
and thinking of them type of tears.
(18:14):
I've never been asked that question.
Okay, what?
Okay, this is one of my favorite questions.
It's so simple, but it's so like beautiful indeed.
What or who makes you feel the savior?
Oh.
I'll go first.
I want to like start crying right now,
but absolutely my sister who has never judged me,
(18:36):
has never looked at me in my worst lights
when I have felt like my worst self,
but she always lifts me up and sees the best in me.
And I try to do the same for her in return,
but she just has that glow and that love about her
that she extends to everybody.
And I wish I had a little bit of that to do for others.
That's so nice.
Thanks for sharing.
I think mine might sound sad to some people,
(18:56):
but I think right now I feel safest with myself
because I think it's taken me a long time
to be able to like verbalize what my grief is
or like what I need or set boundaries
or how I'm feeling and be okay with that.
(19:16):
And how'd you ask me like, you know,
when my mom and sister were in the hospital,
you know, when my mom and sister was alive,
I would say them, but now it's been a lot of like shifting
to like, well, what do I feel safest here
and how do I set that up for myself?
Because you hear so much outside noise of like your grief
(19:39):
and what it should be or when it should be over
and you shouldn't feel that anymore.
And it's hard to like just not feel bad about that
and like let that in of like what people think it is
or how they see it.
So I think it's been a lot of just growth
of me understanding my own grief and how big it is,
but also how then I need to make my life so much bigger
(20:02):
and like so much brighter and happier
despite all that like large, I don't know, balls of grief.
I don't know, I feel like that sounds dirty,
but let's just make my life bigger.
So I think that's been a big shift.
So for right now it's me and that might change,
but right now I feel like my safest is with myself
(20:26):
and just like my growth.
That was a great answer.
My brother is so big into cards decks
that I should show him this one.
He's really big on card decks.
Like every time we have a family gathering,
even just like going out to dinner,
he always like has a card deck of some sort
that asks these kind of deep questions.
(20:49):
So I should tell him about this one.
Yeah, and especially if you have someone in your life
who appreciates those deep conversations, like perfect.
Or even great for like, if you like go grab coffee
with a friend in the car and you're just driving around,
like I thought about everything.
So they really could be used in any space with anybody
who's ready and willing to have these conversations,
(21:09):
but they're not all super like sad and heavy,
but yeah, they help you connect with one another, I think.
Yeah, that's really good.
Well, and that's a good point with grief
where a lot of people who might support you and love you
don't even know how to like touch on these subjects
because they're afraid of what that's gonna bring up in you.
(21:31):
And Rachel and I have tried to be very vocal.
Like there's times that like,
I'm definitely a time and place type of person
when I wanna talk about my grief,
but I am willing to talk about it
and I am willing to go into it.
I just don't wanna sometimes burden the other person
with the amount of emotion that might explode out,
but these cards I love,
cause they're so like targeted and specific
(21:52):
and can really ignite conversations
I would have never had otherwise.
So you had your losses as a teenager
and Rachel and I had experienced our losses
as well as like young adults,
but how had that experience of being a teenager
influenced the resources and support
that you're providing now through Girl's Gotta Heal?
(22:14):
I think honestly,
mostly everything I do is done through the lens
of my younger self and what I needed.
And you always hear that quote,
be the person that your younger self needed
and I really try to embody that in everything
and even when I'm not trying to happen.
So this card deck,
my 18 year old grieving self would have loved it.
(22:35):
My 32 year old self now has also gone through a recent loss,
would love it.
The Affirmation Journal,
my younger self would have loved it
and I didn't always have people to talk to.
So the self-help tools were really,
would have been really like helpful for somebody
like me at that age who was going through it.
So yeah, I think I just try to honor that person
(22:55):
that I was and who she needed and everything that I do.
I feel like that's,
yeah, I feel like that's what me and Kendall do
with the podcast is,
especially our first season was really
having the conversations that we wish happened more
and talking about all these little things.
But even as we do that,
I feel like we find out more about our own grief
because like Kendall will say something like,
(23:17):
oh, I didn't think about that.
Or like someone asks like a question,
you're like, oh, I didn't think that hurt me
or like that's something that I'm holding onto.
So it's crazy how much you can still learn.
Like it's gonna be 11 years since I lost my dad.
So it's the longest loss.
It's like, I'm still learning stuff
and you can learn from other people's grief.
(23:39):
But yeah, we're definitely trying to do that.
I think this season we're bringing on a lot more people
with different perspectives and different things
to bring on to the conversation of grief,
which I think has been helpful
and a learning thing for us too,
because everyone has different goals
with what they're doing in the grief space,
different products.
(23:59):
So I have really enjoyed this season
because it's been totally different than our first.
And it's been a lot of like great conversations like this.
Absolutely.
So as you are a mental health advocate
and now a registered psychotherapist
and congratulations on that.
So it was like a very recent thing.
So congrats.
(24:20):
Thank you.
What do you think are the biggest challenges people face
when it comes to openly discussing their grief
and mental health in general?
I think generally speaking,
a big theme is vulnerability.
That's a huge challenge
because everybody's relationship
with vulnerability is different.
A lot of our relationships with vulnerability
(24:40):
stems from our upbringing or culture,
what's been accepted.
So that's really like a tough point for people to arrive at
to be like, okay, I'm gonna inch forward
and like just be a little bit vulnerable.
And I think shame as well.
And that it goes on the same bucket of our relationship
with shame can really stem from our experiences,
(25:02):
our past relationships.
Yeah.
And then I guess like lastly,
I would say worry that people might not understand.
So that holds people back
and that's a challenge and barrier to people
accessing support.
So I think when someone does access support,
it is incredibly courageous
and a really beautiful step forward.
(25:22):
And I always say showing up is the hardest part.
Those are some of the things I've noticed.
I did not jump into the community
that's been built in social media around grief
when I lost my dad.
And I wish I did.
I wish I had found that community earlier
and found all these accounts providing such great advice
and resources and tools.
(25:42):
And like your page was one of the first ones we followed
when we started the podcast.
And I think if that's the first thing you do
and you're not in a place yet in your grief to go
and like pursue like really get down into the dirt
type of healing,
like just following these accounts
and having it passively enter your feed.
(26:02):
What is just so helpful to see like,
these are little tidbits,
like little tricks you could do
or just little, like you said, affirmations
that can enter your kind of sphere
and hopefully push you in the right direction
to wanting to like tackle your grief
and then in a deeper, more formative way.
Exactly, yeah.
When I heard your answer,
(26:24):
I was like, wow, I feel really called out
for the biggest reason why I didn't talk about my grief
or anything early on.
I look back and when my dad first passed away
because I still had my mom and my sister,
I think I had the, I don't know, strength
or still like the such support
that I could be reflective of it.
So I remember I posted stuff basically about being hard
(26:45):
but like what I'm learning and all this stuff.
And I think had that only happened,
I probably would have been maybe somewhere similar
to where I am now in terms of like doing stuff
or grief because I feel like that's where I was heading.
And then when I lost my sister and mom,
I think I was just like, F all of this,
like this is too much.
And I stopped talking about it, I just shut down.
(27:08):
And even when my dad passed away,
I think it was a weird time of like, people don't get it.
I was like 26 at the time and it's like,
a lot of my friends had it.
And it's like, that's when I feel like I was like,
oh, I'm trying to be going out and doing all this stuff.
And it's like, oh, some of these friends
are just like fun friends, you know?
And they're not the type of friends
that are gonna be there for you when your dad dies.
(27:29):
And like, it was a lot of changing and growth.
And I feel like I was taking away a lot then,
but then like, I still didn't like people looking at me
like, oh, that's the girl with the dead dad.
And then it's like, once my sister and my mom died,
I was like, I don't want anyone to look at me period,
because I feel like that's all they see.
And that's like a really hard thing where it's like,
(27:50):
I don't think people will get it
because people didn't get it when my dad died.
So like, they're definitely not gonna get it
when it gets worse.
And then I think because of that,
it's like, I didn't talk to people about it
because it's like, it's so much.
Now I'm like, okay, there are a lot of people
that have experienced something similar.
It's a shitty situation, but it's like,
I'm not the only one.
And not that I like, I'm downplaying my own grief,
(28:13):
but it's like, you learn about other people
and you're like, you're not the only one feeling it.
You're not the only one that gets that type of pain.
But it definitely took a while to get there.
And I was like, oh, those are all the reasons why
I didn't do it earlier.
It feels like such a fine line of one,
like recognizing in your grief
that this is now a part of your story.
(28:34):
And like, this is active in your life.
Like, this is something you have to confront now
versus also not wanting people to just see that about you
and just see like death and grief.
And I feel like I'm still trying to balance that
at the same time myself with like,
grief is a part of my journey.
I'm trying to be more comfortable with that
(28:55):
and pursuing my life forward with like,
the facts of the matter, like my dad has passed away
and that's a part of my life.
But also being like, that's not just a dead dad,
careful like, yeah, there's multiple things also about me.
Like Rachel too, like all of us Grievers
have multifaceted lives, but it's funny that like,
(29:16):
your community or your support system
might only see that about you
and trying to balance those things is really difficult.
Which leads into the next thing that I think Rachel
and I have found super wonderful in this time.
Like since we've started the podcast,
since we started the social channels is finding healing
in our grief journey with community
(29:38):
and found this to be such a, I don't know,
like it was like a secret.
I was like, wow, this is like such an amazing tool
to find other people going through the same things.
Why did I not think of this before?
And you really emphasize the message of collective healing.
So why do you believe that healing is stronger
when done within a community rather than in isolation?
(30:00):
Like Rachel and I had a couple years ago.
I definitely think that the periods of isolation
or doing the work by yourself are also really valuable.
I think sometimes you need to vibe alone
and sit with your feelings on your own,
but I think the gray area is when it becomes too long
that you're in that state.
I think community offers belonging.
(30:22):
I think it offers validation.
You just feel seen in a way
that maybe your friends couldn't see you.
They've had the best intentions,
but they really couldn't see you.
And I think when you experience things like that,
like such a huge loss within your family,
your whole entire life changes.
Who you are as a person changes, your roles change,
your day-to-day changes, everything changes.
(30:43):
Those are things that sometimes your friends tend to understand.
So finding a community of people who really understand you
is really, really important.
And like you said, even if you're at the stage of just,
you know, following some pages
and seeing some posts here and there,
like that's a little inch forward.
Joining groups, those are great things.
(31:04):
Group therapy that focuses on grief is also great too.
But I think sometimes people wanna start their healing
that route first,
and sometimes people wanna start individual therapy
or individual therapeutics on their own
and then make their way the community.
So I really think it's individual,
but community is so beautiful and it offers so much.
(31:26):
And you can be as involved as you'd like to be.
And I think that's the part that people like.
They feel like, I wanna feel you out first.
I don't know if I'm ready.
And then you hear other people's stories and you're like,
okay, that kind of gave me the boost
and the courage to share my story.
And I think a lot of healing comes from hearing your story
through your mouth and you saying it over and over again.
(31:47):
And you just feel so empowered.
So I think community can offer you that.
Saying it, saying it without crying,
I feel like is my biggest win.
Like being able to like just like say it
and then like, I didn't cry.
Cause like sometimes I say, I'm like,
oh, this is just getting sadder even to myself,
saying it out loud.
But it has been really good.
(32:07):
We're in a group support together
and I'm like the organizer.
And sometimes you just like don't know.
It's like people don't go to every session.
Sometimes they get busy or whatever.
But then like things will show up.
You're like, okay, you do actually really like this group.
You do actually get a lot from it.
You don't want things to change.
It's like, sometimes it's hard to gauge
(32:29):
because you just never know the effect you're having
on people or how much they need that space.
And it's something that I'm learning
as like the organizer too.
Part of that was like how me and Kendall connected
is like we're a little farther from our grief,
but we are the ones, I feel like probably the latest
in there to deal with our grief.
(32:50):
And I feel like we're also learning a lot from people
that are more recent in it.
And then I feel like we're almost kind of like
the leaders in the group because we share
so that other people feel more comfortable to share
because it's been longer.
So I feel like it's great.
Cause like we can kind of tag team in the group
to make people feel comfortable.
I know that like there's always an awkward silence
of like, are someone gonna share?
(33:11):
And then I'm like, I always know that Kendall
will just like step up and share something.
That like, and then from there, like everyone else shares.
It's just something that I've come to get used to.
I don't know if people like notice that or not.
It's like always like in the system that happens,
like not planned.
I'm like, I know Kendall will say something.
And that's kind of what started us being friends
in the first place was like that happened
(33:32):
without us even having like a one-on-one conversation.
It's definitely good to have a community.
So, so you have a background in education, child
and youth care and mental health.
How has that shaped the tools and strategies
that you share with your audience?
Because I think a lot of people, like we share things
but I always try to be careful of like,
this is things that may work for you.
(33:54):
This is like stuff that worked for us.
But in the sense, and we always say like,
we're not, we're professionals in our own group.
We're not professional.
Like we're not, we're not you.
We're not a professional, professional.
We're just like professional grievers.
So how would you describe what you share
with your community?
Obviously the education in it,
but how would you describe, like say your content
(34:18):
and the strategies that you give
with your audience are different?
I think that my education and professional experience
and lived experience all really, you know,
I think through all the years of that,
I've gained such an appreciation
of people's individual differences
through grief and through trauma.
And I think that that's a really great thing
(34:39):
because for me, when I look at someone
or when I'm hearing someone share their story,
I don't, my mind doesn't go to categorizing them.
And I really just listen to hear what's worked for them
or how they're coping or how they're impacted
because you and I, three of us, you know,
we've lost our dad,
but we probably had entirely different experiences.
We can connect with each other on the feeling,
(35:01):
but the experiences and the impact are different.
So I think really embracing people's individual differences.
And for me, I tailor programming
and how I continue building my relationship
with that particular client or individual based on that
and based on who they are as an individual.
And also like understanding things developmentally,
like working with children and youth and having education.
(35:23):
It makes me really appreciate how
when we experience trauma at such a young age
or as our brain is developing,
that really, really impacts our development,
emotionally, socially, everything.
So I think I just approach life and working with people
and creating content in that way
where I'm viewing it through a developmental lens
(35:45):
and viewing it in a way that can connect
with different people experiencing different things.
Yeah, I, when we create content, like I said,
like we try to do like, this is, this might work for you.
You might wanna just try something if nothing's working,
you know, these are different things.
I think though, also because we always do it,
like there's no absolute, like everyone's different.
(36:08):
That I think it almost comes off not,
not that we need to be like an authority on grief or anything,
but I think there's people that say, this is what will help.
Don't say that this is somebody, do this, do that.
And people really respond to that,
whether they're a griever or not,
that type of the way that you do it
or the way that you share.
(36:29):
And we're not like that because in our experience
and from talking to other people in the grief community,
that's just not how it is.
Like something that worked for me
and it might not work for Kendall,
she might lean to one thing, I might not lean to that.
So we never like to come off as like, this is how you do it.
This is the only way, but it is hard
because I feel like people respond when you say it
and like, this is how you do it.
But it's just like, we have to just stay being ourselves
(36:52):
and what we think might help or like we wanna share
just to provide another idea or thought
because it might help you.
Like Kendall has said a lot of things
that like made me think about things differently
or change something or try something else.
And it's something I would have never thought of,
(37:12):
but it might not work for the next person.
And I think that's the hard thing
where you see some people just like speaking in absolutes.
So I love that you said like you tailor it to each person
because everyone is so different
and their experience is so different.
And like, yeah, like you said, like we all lost our dad,
but our experiences are all different still.
Like we can relate, but not every little piece of it,
(37:36):
we have our own differences.
Our pain is always gonna be the hardest to ourselves
because it's our pain.
So I think that's where it's like an interesting balance
of we share from our heart and things that we had helped us
or we wanna try, but we never do it in a way
that's like, this is the only way
or this is the absolute, but it is interesting.
You see like some people do
(37:57):
and like that's what people respond to
and like ask so many questions.
And I'm like, okay, well, I don't wanna change.
Like me and Kendall don't wanna change.
Because you know why, like a lot of our brains
are geared toward gravitating to solutions.
So if someone's telling us you follow one, two, three,
you're gonna be good.
We're more inclined to try it,
(38:17):
but that's also so harmful to someone
because when it doesn't work out for them,
you're like, well, I'm back to isolating
because that didn't work for me.
You said it was gonna work for me.
So I guess there's something wrong with me.
So I think your language is so important
and it's responsibility of creators,
especially mental health professionals
or people who are commenting
(38:38):
on mental health related issues
to be mindful of their language
because you do have an influence on,
even if it's one person, if you have such a small following,
someone is looking at your stuff.
So be mindful of the words you're using.
And yeah, not everyone will fit into that same box.
Yeah, there's, I don't wanna say like a series,
but we had various different episodes
(39:01):
surrounding how people who are never experienced grief
or loss can talk to people who are grieving
because I'm sure your experience too,
you were told or heard a lot of things from people
from a good place, but it might have actually been
like something like, I didn't actually need to hear that.
That wasn't actually very helpful to my journey.
(39:22):
And so we've tried to offer different,
like here are things that really would be helpful
to a griever to hear or really helpful in their support,
even if like you don't have the right words
because at the end of the day,
when you're trying to comfort someone
and their loss and their grief,
there really aren't the right words to fix the fact
(39:43):
that they've lost someone important
and trying to really emphasize that like the action
and the love speaks louder than words
and how you support people.
And so yeah, we've tried, we've done a series around that
with talking about, because I have, I have great friends
and I love them and they were so great to me.
And my time of like deep grief and loss
(40:06):
and I was crying every day and they were still there for me
and still picked me up.
But the same thing, like you said earlier,
they didn't know how to connect with that.
They've never experienced that point of sadness themselves.
And so trying to be like, here's a toolkit
for those people to help those grievers in their lives.
Yeah, we did preface by saying like,
you know your griever best.
So like, these are just like,
(40:27):
so you don't walk in completely blind.
Like here are some ideas.
Like these are things that we would have liked
or that we did like that were nice
or that maybe we do now for other grievers,
but like, you know your person.
Like maybe someone will love flowers.
Maybe someone wants cookies.
Maybe someone wants you to leave them a hell alone.
Like, I don't know this person, you know,
(40:47):
like you need to know your person.
And we always say like, these are things that helped us.
We're just trying to help you like not go in blind,
but you're the only one that knows your person.
I don't even know who's listening.
Like you have to still tailor it.
And yeah, I think that's the hard part where people,
like you said, like if you just do it, absolutely.
Like we don't know exactly what's gonna help somebody.
(41:10):
We're just trying to be like,
this is better than nothing because it helped us
and this is our experience,
but still like tailor it to your person.
Like we don't know them at all.
So I think that's important for those resources.
Like you said, like you tailor it to each person
because it's just everyone handles it differently.
Which low key plug, if you are listening
(41:34):
and you know a griever,
someone's grieving a little way right now,
like these card decks would be amazing.
I would love to get a card deck if someone got it for me.
So if you're looking for gifts for grievers,
that's a good one.
So going back to providing resources
just to touch back on the anticipatory loss
for those who are listening and might see that,
(41:58):
death might be on the horizon for someone in their lives
and they're like prepping for that inevitability.
Do you have any advice for them listening
or any strategies that could help them?
Cause if they're listening, it's probably pretty dark.
Yeah, and to piggyback on our last conversation,
it might not work for you.
(42:19):
I do have some tips and things to be mindful of,
but anticipatory grief is a tricky one
and it is a tough space to work through
because you can have all of these things prepped.
So when you do experience that loss,
it's like nothing you've ever imagined before
and nothing you could have prepared for.
But I think generally speaking, know your support,
(42:40):
know the people that are comfortable and okay
with sitting in darkness with you
and still showing you that they love you
because those are gems of people.
But these are also the people that wanna celebrate you
on your really good days.
So know your support.
And I will say that not all of us have that
and I didn't have that.
I had completely lost an entire group of friends.
(43:02):
I was alone for the first summer that I had lost my dad
when I was 18 and it was really tough.
So sometimes it takes you a while to find your tribe
and your people.
And so don't be discouraged if you don't have that.
Just knowing some supports,
even if they're virtual supports,
like different pages or different people you look up to.
So having those things in place for yourself
(43:24):
and also communicating in advance.
So if you're someone who is going to school
or you're working,
you might feel a little bit that shame
and that worry of people aren't gonna understand,
but for the most part,
people are more compassionate than we give them credit for.
Don't wanna say that happens all the time,
but generally speaking.
So have conversations with your professors,
(43:47):
your teachers, your boss.
Just let them know what's going on
because you don't know how you're gonna be
when that loss comes and how you're communicating.
You might just drop off completely.
So have those conversations.
And I would just say generally be kind to yourself
because yeah, change is hard
and just be kind and patient with yourself.
(44:08):
Don't feel like you have to rush
to get back to a certain part of your life
or anything like that.
This is your moment to feel and be present
and just work with what's in front of you.
So be kind to yourself and patient.
Yeah, I always say, when people say like,
oh, I can never imagine,
(44:29):
I'm like, don't even bother.
Because if you imagine, it's way worse.
It feels way worse.
Don't spend time feeling sad and anxiety
for what it might feel like
because it's gonna feel way worse
and it's just so much more painful when it actually happens.
I used to stress about mythical,
(44:50):
in middle school, give my mom to answer her phone.
I'd freak out like, oh my God, something happened to my mom.
That was wasted time because when it actually happened,
that hurt way more than whatever I could have pictured
in my head or thought it was gonna be.
So I'm like, don't waste time feeling that emotion
because whatever you're feeling isn't even close.
So just like when it happens, feel that,
(45:13):
oh, you're not gonna have a choice,
but it's gonna happen.
So just don't try to think about
what it's gonna feel like because that is way-
Focus on what you can control.
Yeah.
It said your support, it's your communication.
Those are things you have control of.
Yeah, because that, no control over it.
(45:36):
So what's next for Girls Gotta Heal?
Do you have any new projects or initiatives,
writing thing coming up that you wanna share?
I think I'm due for a new self-help tool.
So we'll hopefully be working on that this year.
Last year, I introduced some in-person events,
so I'd love to get in that space this year.
Everything I've been doing for Girls Gotta Heal
(45:57):
has been online.
So I've done support groups and things like that,
which have been so great and beautiful,
especially during pandemic time.
We're connecting with people in different countries.
It's been awesome.
But I really like the in-person connection.
There's just such energy you pick up from people.
So doing more in-person events
(46:18):
and just creating more content based on
what the community is needing and me
and how I'm changing as well.
I'm just developing a new version of myself.
And I've seen so many versions of myself
from the start of GGH to now.
Just really honoring her and where she's at
and shaping some content around it and just improving.
That's so exciting.
(46:39):
How can people who are listening right now find you?
What are your handles on social media?
Where do you want people to learn more about you?
Yeah, so my Instagram is girlsgottakeal.
My website is girlsgottakeal.com.
I also have a podcast, the girlsgottakeal podcast.
And those are the main places you can find me.
We'll also add them in the show notes.
(47:01):
So it was so amazing talking to you
and hearing about your journey with Girls Gotta Heal
and grief and all these things.
I think it's really great to have the perspective
of someone that's actually like a registered psychotherapist
speak on it and give their opinion on it.
I think we have a lot of people sharing their grief
from their own experiences, but it's nice to kind of,
(47:21):
I think, set a level of like, OK, this is what it is
when you're actually like a registered professional
and not just a professional griever, as we say.
This is our tagline.
Thank you so much for coming on.
And we're so excited for everyone
to listen to this episode.
Have a great day, everyone.
Thank you.
Did you experience loss at a young age
(47:42):
or struggle with compounded grief?
Let us introduce you to Carm.
She's a registered psychotherapist and founder
of Girls Gotta Heal.
Carm's mission is to help young women navigate loss
with resilience and grace.
Don't miss this conversation for some great practical.
Did you experience loss at a young age
(00:02):
or struggle with compounded grief?
Let us introduce you to Carm.
She's a registered psychotherapist
and founder of Girls Gotta Heal.
Carm's mission is to help young women navigate loss
with resilience and grace.
Don't miss this conversation
for some great practical resources
and insights into her unique healing tools.
Welcome to the Two Girls with Grief podcast,
(00:40):
the podcast where we share our real
and raw experiences with grief.
Whether it's tears or laughter
or maybe a little bit of both,
we're here to figure it out in real time.
We are your hosts.
I'm Kendall Rogers.
And I'm Rachel Dwyer.
And while we're not professionals,
we are professional grievers.
Every Tuesday, we bring you honest conversations
(01:00):
that break down the stigma of grief,
one episode at a time,
because no one should have to grieve alone.
So grab a cup of coffee, settle in,
and let's navigate this journey together.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Carm.
We're so happy to have you.
Thank you, I'm happy to be here.
We've been following your Girls Gotta Heal account
for a while now.
So we're so excited to finally get you on the podcast
(01:21):
and learn what you've been building.
So what inspired you to start Girls Gotta Heal?
And how would you say that it's evolved over the years?
So Girls Gotta Heal started quite a few years ago now.
It really started from me reaching a point
in my healing journey with my grief.
I had experienced a lot of losses,
(01:41):
including the loss of a friend, my dad being a huge one.
And I had reached a point in my healing
where I felt really empowered with my story.
I think that there's a really special point
when we do the healing work where we're like,
you know what, I really own my story.
I'm doing the work, I feel good about that.
And I was just ready to share my story
and connect with others because for a while,
(02:02):
I could not find anything on social media
that connected to my experience.
The age range was a little different.
The type of losses were different.
So I wanted to just create something
that I needed essentially.
So you've experienced a lot of loss.
You've obviously gone through a lot of grief.
What were the first steps that you took
(02:25):
to explore your grief and this mental health journey
and beginning to deal with all this loss and grief
that you were experiencing?
Me and my experience, it took me quite a long time
to reach that point and deal with my grief.
And I had listened to one of your podcast episodes
and I know you had experienced something similar to,
I think it was Rachel, like just saying that
it took you quite a while to actually start doing the work.
(02:46):
So that was my experience as well.
But for me, I had, my first step really was reaching out
to a counselor at my university
and just getting the courage to show up every week.
And that turned into me showing up for myself.
But yeah, there was a lot of like stigma
and my family about talking about mental health and grief.
So I really felt like if I wasn't going to do the work
(03:10):
and I wasn't going to make the change
then nothing was going to happen.
And I was just gonna stay stuck
and just be in darkness for a long time.
Yeah, the delayed dealing with it
is something that me and Kendall both did.
Mine was longer because my losses were farther away,
but we ended up kind of on the same path at the right time.
And that's how we met like in our grief support group
(03:31):
was like we both joined at the same time,
feeling that same thing,
like we need to do something different
and start dealing with our grief.
And that's when we joined the grief support group.
So we both were a little bit delayed.
I win the award for the longest.
So talking about that compounded grief,
I saw that you lost your friend,
you lost your father and your grandpa and your uncle
(03:52):
and you're a very close tight knit family.
How did you handle that compounded grief?
Because I know I didn't handle it.
I probably just didn't handle it.
I don't know well or bad.
I just like didn't handle it.
But looking at one, how you handled it at the time,
but now like years later,
do you wish you would handle it differently?
Because sometimes I try to look back like,
could I have done it sooner?
(04:13):
And I'm like, I actually don't think I could have,
but what are your thoughts on that?
Yeah, I think I also did not handle it.
I think when you go through multiple losses and trauma,
that it's just a numbing feeling
and how that looks like is different for each person.
And for me, I just went on autopilot.
I tried to at the time do things
that I thought were normal for an 18 year old.
(04:36):
And then there were other times where I isolated completely
and both of those didn't feel good.
So I don't know if I would have done anything different
because I've reached a point
where I'm really at peace with my journey.
And I think my younger self did the best job
that she possibly could have done.
That's a good way to word it.
I try to give myself grace for that too.
Cause I'm like, could I have come out earlier?
(04:58):
I don't know that I could have.
It's a lot.
It's when people keep dying, you're like,
I don't know how I was supposed to handle that.
So I definitely relate to that feeling.
And I think for me,
there's moments where I am human too.
And I compare myself to my peers and other people
and things that they're doing
and places that they're at in their life.
And I really feel like at times I'm behind,
(05:20):
but there was so much that I was going through
that my peers, my friends were not at the time.
And that put me at a disadvantage.
That stunted my development.
Yes, it's taken me a lot longer
to reach some of the places I wanted to.
But I also, like I said, wouldn't change the journey at all.
I think that could be another conversation.
Grief like changing your life.
(05:43):
Like me and Kendall talk about that a lot.
It just changes like what's important to you
and what interests you.
But then you see your friends that are like,
maybe climbing the corporate ladder
or doing all these things that you're not doing
because you've just been doing different stuff
and it's hard to not compare.
But at the same time you're like,
well, you didn't have both your parents
and then your sister died in four years.
(06:04):
So like maybe it's okay.
Like I'm doing the best I can
and I'm trying to do something positive.
And like, you know, Kendall's also passionate
about a lot of things too.
And career-wise, it just makes you think
about things differently for sure.
Yeah, we've talked about how do you even like date
in that time period.
And I was like, I was so focused on life and death situations.
(06:29):
The dating pool was not even a thing
I could tackle at the time
because I was just so overwhelmed with dealing
with what you deal with when you're watching somebody
slowly die, like that's a real heavy experience.
Yeah, I definitely connect with that too.
You mentioned in your blog that you were holding out
for hope and all those years that your father was sick.
(06:51):
Rachel and I both have similar experiences with that
with like dealing with anticipatory grief
and just how do you maintain that hope?
And then for that to fall through at the end
and it's like the ultimate, it's like,
it feels like the most ultimate like betrayal or let down.
Like, are you thinking, like if you work hard enough,
(07:12):
you try hard enough, you pour enough love into the situation,
like you're gonna come out good on the other side
and in all our situations, it sounds like it's safe.
So can you talk more about what that was like
when you have to face like that heartbreak
at the end of the road when that hope
like does it turn out the way you hoped for?
(07:34):
Yeah, you know what?
No one has really ever asked me this question before,
not even in conversation with friends.
So it's really me back and just remembering that feeling.
And I think that that was probably one of the most difficult
times and feelings that I've ever experienced in my life
because for me, we were really focusing on the progress
(07:55):
and like, you know, dad's gonna come home,
but then that would shift into, okay,
if he does get better, things are gonna look different.
So it was such an emotional roller coaster.
And then when it finally took a turn for the worse,
it was just such emotional torture.
It was the most devastating thing.
And you think about everything comes flooding in,
you start thinking about,
(08:16):
he's not gonna be here for this moment,
he's not gonna be here for this.
And then everything's going to change.
So I would say anticipatory grief is really tough
and it's something that it's really hard to prepare for.
It made me realize like some harsh realities of life.
And at the time I was 17, 18 years old.
(08:36):
So I just had such tunnel vision when you're younger,
you don't really see the world in the way that you do now
as an adult.
So that was kind of the turning point where I'm like,
my whole belief system is like shattered.
You have this belief that like, you know,
good things happen to good people.
And like, if you just pray about it, you be positive about it,
(08:56):
it's gonna work out and like,
we're gonna come out on the end.
And it was just like, what?
That doesn't happen?
That's not a thing that's not happening?
So that was really hard to accept.
That's something that being had all talk about too is like,
try to channel that lucky girl syndrome,
feeling manifest stuff.
(09:17):
And it's like, you try to rewire your brain
to only think positive things
and to like good things are coming.
And it's all gonna work out.
But it's really hard to one,
I don't think people look at my life and say like,
she's lucky, like Kendall lost her dad.
There's like, are people gonna say that's lucky?
But then to train your mind,
like everything's gonna work out
when you've experienced it in so many,
(09:38):
in such a high degree that it doesn't always work out.
And in a way that is extremely painful,
that doesn't go away.
It's really hard to be like, no, good things are coming.
And you know, I'm gonna be lucky
and I'm gonna attract all these things.
It's really hard to like pull yourself up and think that,
but it's like a constant mind shift for me to do that.
(10:01):
But I'm like really trying to be like,
good things are coming
and we're putting good things out there
and it's all gonna come back.
Yeah, I honestly think that there needs to be more of like,
well accepted balance between that
and also sitting in your feelings
and that it's very okay to be sad.
Because I think when people experience loss, grief,
trauma, something really like profound and huge,
(10:23):
they jump to like, okay, I need to do something.
Like I need to find a solution to that.
I need to be better.
I need to like, it's like, it's okay to just exist
and just be like, you're fine, you know?
Like you need to be able to feel what you're feeling
and then work toward that manifestation and all that.
But you can't rush those things either.
Like you have to be able to be okay sitting in discomfort
(10:46):
and a lot of people are not.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And I feel like in that anticipatory timeframe,
it's like there are high highs and there are low lows
and I have never felt such range of emotions.
Even in that short frame of time, but even in a day,
it's like you get really good news
about their progress and their health
(11:07):
and then something detrimental will happen.
And it's like, that's how quickly things can change
in that time period before someone passes.
And it's just that drastic of an emotional shift.
Like I'm just like thinking back,
like, oh man, those were all hard times.
It took me until probably like last year
to I think sit in my feelings the most.
(11:28):
And I've said like, I haven't cried as much
as I have in the past year,
but I've also feel like I felt happier.
Like it's a weird thing of just like letting myself
feel the emotions and let it out when I need to
and being okay that like this is just a part of my life.
But then I also like feel the happiness more too.
So it's like a weird balance,
(11:48):
but like it makes sense to me now
that I'm kind of on this side of things.
So I'm excited to hear about these,
the next things that you've been creating,
which is first was the Affirmation Journal for Women.
So I wanna hear how you started that.
And then afterwards, I wanna learn about connecting
through grief, your deck cards that you made.
But first, can you tell us what inspired you
(12:08):
to write the Affirmation Journal for Women?
With the Affirmation Journal for Women,
that came at a time in my life
and also the progression of GGH of when I started,
a lot of the content was focused on
just the negative emotions of grief and sadness
and working with that, accepting it.
And I kind of went into this different version of myself
(12:30):
where I was making really empowering changes in my life.
I had left a job, I had zero plan,
and I was betting on myself.
And I'm like, I really wanna lean into this book
and creating action because for so long,
I spent a lot of time creating content around
working toward acceptance.
And for me, I was at a point where I was really accepting
(12:51):
of the things that have happened to me
and at peace with my journey and working on myself.
So I'm like, okay, action is next.
And I think affirmations are a really great way
to rework how we speak to ourselves.
Even if you don't believe it all the way in the moment,
it's a practice and it really contributes
to our self-worth, self-esteem.
(13:11):
So this journal contains 40 affirmations
and within the book, there are journal prompts,
activities that really like pair affirmation with action.
So you can say your affirmations, which are great,
but pairing it with action really like levels it up a notch.
(13:32):
So that's what you can expect in the affirmation journal.
It's something nice to chip away at every night,
like just focusing on one of the affirmations
and the activities.
I really wanted to put the focus on empowering people
wherever they were at in their journey
and whatever they experienced, not even necessarily great,
but just life transitions, womanhood,
(13:54):
and give them something to really work on.
That's amazing.
I love affirmations.
I try to do them more, but I think the action part
is also like a very necessary part
because you can say all the things,
but if you're doing nothing,
I don't think that things are gonna come towards you.
Maybe some people,
but I think it's more than just putting it out there.
It's like you putting yourself out there and doing the work.
(14:17):
Oh, it is a combination which I do think is often overlooked.
It's like, it's not just saying the thing.
It's saying it so often that you start believing it
and then you start taking action.
So that's amazing.
And we'll link it in our show notes as well.
But so now I'm excited to learn about the connecting
through grief deck card and we can test out two cards.
(14:37):
Yeah, so the deck,
that kind of evolved through just these feelings
and hearing from the GGH community, similar experiences.
What I experienced that people didn't feel comfortable
having conversations about their grief within their home,
within their relationships.
And I thought creating a card deck
would be a really nice icebreaker.
I've created the prompts for you.
(14:59):
You just have to go through them
and it really gives people the flexibility
to use the deck however they want.
If you're really in a space right now
with your healing where you just wanna zone in
and focus on yourself,
you don't really wanna be talking to anybody about it,
you can use them as journal prompts
or you can use them one-on-one with your partner
or you can use them in a group with your family.
So there's a lot of flexibility with it.
(15:20):
But a lot of the questions,
they're not necessarily just focused on grief,
they're focused on your relationship with yourself,
which I am a complete broken record about
in all of my content.
I always say it goes back to you
and it's your responsibility to work on your relationship
with yourself, nothing else is gonna work out
unless you really tune into yourself.
So a lot of these questions are prompting you
(15:43):
to look inward and see what you need.
That's so true.
That's so true.
It took me a while to get to that feeling.
So, or like not thinking about like how much work
you actually have to do on yourself.
It's tiring.
So, yes.
So this is the deck, the front of the deck.
Ooh, I love the colors.
(16:03):
Yeah.
I know it's really pretty.
Oh, gold.
Love it.
I'll pull two cards.
And so excited.
If your tears could talk, what would they say?
Oh, gosh.
The gas.
I was like, there's too many of us on the floor.
Like what would they think?
(16:26):
I feel like that brings up so many emotions.
Kendall, something come into your mind first.
Yeah.
Well, like, are you gonna be like,
well, like Rachel said, we're kind of,
or a couple of years away from our grief.
So I think this question would be very different
if I answered this immediately after my loss.
But right now, like where I am in life,
I would say like the tears I should be shedding right now
(16:50):
should be for happy things.
Like they should be happy tears and like joyful tears.
And not tears of stress or not tears
of like feeling worthless right now.
Like I think those are what my tears would say.
That's great.
I think for me, my tears now,
(17:11):
I mean, I think it's more like,
it's almost healing in a way.
Like you're always gonna miss your family.
You're always gonna wish they were here.
There's no cure for that.
And it's just sometimes when I'm really missing the most,
it's like, that's when the tears come.
And it's not like a long cry.
It's kind of just like a short,
like you're releasing the valve,
which is something that someone in our group support group
(17:33):
says and it's true.
It's like sometimes you just kind of need to like
open the valve a little bit and just let it out.
And then you feel better and you feel
almost like a weight is off your shoulders.
So I feel like that's more where my tears are now,
or just like I can address and like accept
that I really miss them.
And when I need to just like let that emotion out, I will.
(17:53):
So I feel like they're kind of like healing.
It's like coming to peace that the tears don't mean
that you're just like a sad, sad person.
It just means that you have sadness as part of your life
and your story, but it's not the only thing.
So I think it's now at this point, it's more of like,
I can acknowledge that that pain is there,
but it's like a healing, like I loved them
and thinking of them type of tears.
(18:14):
I've never been asked that question.
Okay, what?
Okay, this is one of my favorite questions.
It's so simple, but it's so like beautiful indeed.
What or who makes you feel the savior?
Oh.
I'll go first.
I want to like start crying right now,
but absolutely my sister who has never judged me,
(18:36):
has never looked at me in my worst lights
when I have felt like my worst self,
but she always lifts me up and sees the best in me.
And I try to do the same for her in return,
but she just has that glow and that love about her
that she extends to everybody.
And I wish I had a little bit of that to do for others.
That's so nice.
Thanks for sharing.
I think mine might sound sad to some people,
(18:56):
but I think right now I feel safest with myself
because I think it's taken me a long time
to be able to like verbalize what my grief is
or like what I need or set boundaries
or how I'm feeling and be okay with that.
(19:16):
And how'd you ask me like, you know,
when my mom and sister were in the hospital,
you know, when my mom and sister was alive,
I would say them, but now it's been a lot of like shifting
to like, well, what do I feel safest here
and how do I set that up for myself?
Because you hear so much outside noise of like your grief
(19:39):
and what it should be or when it should be over
and you shouldn't feel that anymore.
And it's hard to like just not feel bad about that
and like let that in of like what people think it is
or how they see it.
So I think it's been a lot of just growth
of me understanding my own grief and how big it is,
but also how then I need to make my life so much bigger
(20:02):
and like so much brighter and happier
despite all that like large, I don't know, balls of grief.
I don't know, I feel like that sounds dirty,
but let's just make my life bigger.
So I think that's been a big shift.
So for right now it's me and that might change,
but right now I feel like my safest is with myself
(20:26):
and just like my growth.
That was a great answer.
My brother is so big into cards decks
that I should show him this one.
He's really big on card decks.
Like every time we have a family gathering,
even just like going out to dinner,
he always like has a card deck of some sort
that asks these kind of deep questions.
(20:49):
So I should tell him about this one.
Yeah, and especially if you have someone in your life
who appreciates those deep conversations, like perfect.
Or even great for like, if you like go grab coffee
with a friend in the car and you're just driving around,
like I thought about everything.
So they really could be used in any space with anybody
who's ready and willing to have these conversations,
(21:09):
but they're not all super like sad and heavy,
but yeah, they help you connect with one another, I think.
Yeah, that's really good.
Well, and that's a good point with grief
where a lot of people who might support you and love you
don't even know how to like touch on these subjects
because they're afraid of what that's gonna bring up in you.
(21:31):
And Rachel and I have tried to be very vocal.
Like there's times that like,
I'm definitely a time and place type of person
when I wanna talk about my grief,
but I am willing to talk about it
and I am willing to go into it.
I just don't wanna sometimes burden the other person
with the amount of emotion that might explode out,
but these cards I love,
cause they're so like targeted and specific
(21:52):
and can really ignite conversations
I would have never had otherwise.
So you had your losses as a teenager
and Rachel and I had experienced our losses
as well as like young adults,
but how had that experience of being a teenager
influenced the resources and support
that you're providing now through Girl's Gotta Heal?
(22:14):
I think honestly,
mostly everything I do is done through the lens
of my younger self and what I needed.
And you always hear that quote,
be the person that your younger self needed
and I really try to embody that in everything
and even when I'm not trying to happen.
So this card deck,
my 18 year old grieving self would have loved it.
(22:35):
My 32 year old self now has also gone through a recent loss,
would love it.
The Affirmation Journal,
my younger self would have loved it
and I didn't always have people to talk to.
So the self-help tools were really,
would have been really like helpful for somebody
like me at that age who was going through it.
So yeah, I think I just try to honor that person
(22:55):
that I was and who she needed and everything that I do.
I feel like that's,
yeah, I feel like that's what me and Kendall do
with the podcast is,
especially our first season was really
having the conversations that we wish happened more
and talking about all these little things.
But even as we do that,
I feel like we find out more about our own grief
because like Kendall will say something like,
(23:17):
oh, I didn't think about that.
Or like someone asks like a question,
you're like, oh, I didn't think that hurt me
or like that's something that I'm holding onto.
So it's crazy how much you can still learn.
Like it's gonna be 11 years since I lost my dad.
So it's the longest loss.
It's like, I'm still learning stuff
and you can learn from other people's grief.
(23:39):
But yeah, we're definitely trying to do that.
I think this season we're bringing on a lot more people
with different perspectives and different things
to bring on to the conversation of grief,
which I think has been helpful
and a learning thing for us too,
because everyone has different goals
with what they're doing in the grief space,
different products.
(23:59):
So I have really enjoyed this season
because it's been totally different than our first.
And it's been a lot of like great conversations like this.
Absolutely.
So as you are a mental health advocate
and now a registered psychotherapist
and congratulations on that.
So it was like a very recent thing.
So congrats.
(24:20):
Thank you.
What do you think are the biggest challenges people face
when it comes to openly discussing their grief
and mental health in general?
I think generally speaking,
a big theme is vulnerability.
That's a huge challenge
because everybody's relationship
with vulnerability is different.
A lot of our relationships with vulnerability
(24:40):
stems from our upbringing or culture,
what's been accepted.
So that's really like a tough point for people to arrive at
to be like, okay, I'm gonna inch forward
and like just be a little bit vulnerable.
And I think shame as well.
And that it goes on the same bucket of our relationship
with shame can really stem from our experiences,
(25:02):
our past relationships.
Yeah.
And then I guess like lastly,
I would say worry that people might not understand.
So that holds people back
and that's a challenge and barrier to people
accessing support.
So I think when someone does access support,
it is incredibly courageous
and a really beautiful step forward.
(25:22):
And I always say showing up is the hardest part.
Those are some of the things I've noticed.
I did not jump into the community
that's been built in social media around grief
when I lost my dad.
And I wish I did.
I wish I had found that community earlier
and found all these accounts providing such great advice
and resources and tools.
(25:42):
And like your page was one of the first ones we followed
when we started the podcast.
And I think if that's the first thing you do
and you're not in a place yet in your grief to go
and like pursue like really get down into the dirt
type of healing,
like just following these accounts
and having it passively enter your feed.
(26:02):
What is just so helpful to see like,
these are little tidbits,
like little tricks you could do
or just little, like you said, affirmations
that can enter your kind of sphere
and hopefully push you in the right direction
to wanting to like tackle your grief
and then in a deeper, more formative way.
Exactly, yeah.
When I heard your answer,
(26:24):
I was like, wow, I feel really called out
for the biggest reason why I didn't talk about my grief
or anything early on.
I look back and when my dad first passed away
because I still had my mom and my sister,
I think I had the, I don't know, strength
or still like the such support
that I could be reflective of it.
So I remember I posted stuff basically about being hard
(26:45):
but like what I'm learning and all this stuff.
And I think had that only happened,
I probably would have been maybe somewhere similar
to where I am now in terms of like doing stuff
or grief because I feel like that's where I was heading.
And then when I lost my sister and mom,
I think I was just like, F all of this,
like this is too much.
And I stopped talking about it, I just shut down.
(27:08):
And even when my dad passed away,
I think it was a weird time of like, people don't get it.
I was like 26 at the time and it's like,
a lot of my friends had it.
And it's like, that's when I feel like I was like,
oh, I'm trying to be going out and doing all this stuff.
And it's like, oh, some of these friends
are just like fun friends, you know?
And they're not the type of friends
that are gonna be there for you when your dad dies.
(27:29):
And like, it was a lot of changing and growth.
And I feel like I was taking away a lot then,
but then like, I still didn't like people looking at me
like, oh, that's the girl with the dead dad.
And then it's like, once my sister and my mom died,
I was like, I don't want anyone to look at me period,
because I feel like that's all they see.
And that's like a really hard thing where it's like,
(27:50):
I don't think people will get it
because people didn't get it when my dad died.
So like, they're definitely not gonna get it
when it gets worse.
And then I think because of that,
it's like, I didn't talk to people about it
because it's like, it's so much.
Now I'm like, okay, there are a lot of people
that have experienced something similar.
It's a shitty situation, but it's like,
I'm not the only one.
And not that I like, I'm downplaying my own grief,
(28:13):
but it's like, you learn about other people
and you're like, you're not the only one feeling it.
You're not the only one that gets that type of pain.
But it definitely took a while to get there.
And I was like, oh, those are all the reasons why
I didn't do it earlier.
It feels like such a fine line of one,
like recognizing in your grief
that this is now a part of your story.
(28:34):
And like, this is active in your life.
Like, this is something you have to confront now
versus also not wanting people to just see that about you
and just see like death and grief.
And I feel like I'm still trying to balance that
at the same time myself with like,
grief is a part of my journey.
I'm trying to be more comfortable with that
(28:55):
and pursuing my life forward with like,
the facts of the matter, like my dad has passed away
and that's a part of my life.
But also being like, that's not just a dead dad,
careful like, yeah, there's multiple things also about me.
Like Rachel too, like all of us Grievers
have multifaceted lives, but it's funny that like,
(29:16):
your community or your support system
might only see that about you
and trying to balance those things is really difficult.
Which leads into the next thing that I think Rachel
and I have found super wonderful in this time.
Like since we've started the podcast,
since we started the social channels is finding healing
in our grief journey with community
(29:38):
and found this to be such a, I don't know,
like it was like a secret.
I was like, wow, this is like such an amazing tool
to find other people going through the same things.
Why did I not think of this before?
And you really emphasize the message of collective healing.
So why do you believe that healing is stronger
when done within a community rather than in isolation?
(30:00):
Like Rachel and I had a couple years ago.
I definitely think that the periods of isolation
or doing the work by yourself are also really valuable.
I think sometimes you need to vibe alone
and sit with your feelings on your own,
but I think the gray area is when it becomes too long
that you're in that state.
I think community offers belonging.
(30:22):
I think it offers validation.
You just feel seen in a way
that maybe your friends couldn't see you.
They've had the best intentions,
but they really couldn't see you.
And I think when you experience things like that,
like such a huge loss within your family,
your whole entire life changes.
Who you are as a person changes, your roles change,
your day-to-day changes, everything changes.
(30:43):
Those are things that sometimes your friends tend to understand.
So finding a community of people who really understand you
is really, really important.
And like you said, even if you're at the stage of just,
you know, following some pages
and seeing some posts here and there,
like that's a little inch forward.
Joining groups, those are great things.
(31:04):
Group therapy that focuses on grief is also great too.
But I think sometimes people wanna start their healing
that route first,
and sometimes people wanna start individual therapy
or individual therapeutics on their own
and then make their way the community.
So I really think it's individual,
but community is so beautiful and it offers so much.
(31:26):
And you can be as involved as you'd like to be.
And I think that's the part that people like.
They feel like, I wanna feel you out first.
I don't know if I'm ready.
And then you hear other people's stories and you're like,
okay, that kind of gave me the boost
and the courage to share my story.
And I think a lot of healing comes from hearing your story
through your mouth and you saying it over and over again.
(31:47):
And you just feel so empowered.
So I think community can offer you that.
Saying it, saying it without crying,
I feel like is my biggest win.
Like being able to like just like say it
and then like, I didn't cry.
Cause like sometimes I say, I'm like,
oh, this is just getting sadder even to myself,
saying it out loud.
But it has been really good.
(32:07):
We're in a group support together
and I'm like the organizer.
And sometimes you just like don't know.
It's like people don't go to every session.
Sometimes they get busy or whatever.
But then like things will show up.
You're like, okay, you do actually really like this group.
You do actually get a lot from it.
You don't want things to change.
It's like, sometimes it's hard to gauge
(32:29):
because you just never know the effect you're having
on people or how much they need that space.
And it's something that I'm learning
as like the organizer too.
Part of that was like how me and Kendall connected
is like we're a little farther from our grief,
but we are the ones, I feel like probably the latest
in there to deal with our grief.
(32:50):
And I feel like we're also learning a lot from people
that are more recent in it.
And then I feel like we're almost kind of like
the leaders in the group because we share
so that other people feel more comfortable to share
because it's been longer.
So I feel like it's great.
Cause like we can kind of tag team in the group
to make people feel comfortable.
I know that like there's always an awkward silence
of like, are someone gonna share?
(33:11):
And then I'm like, I always know that Kendall
will just like step up and share something.
That like, and then from there, like everyone else shares.
It's just something that I've come to get used to.
I don't know if people like notice that or not.
It's like always like in the system that happens,
like not planned.
I'm like, I know Kendall will say something.
And that's kind of what started us being friends
in the first place was like that happened
(33:32):
without us even having like a one-on-one conversation.
It's definitely good to have a community.
So, so you have a background in education, child
and youth care and mental health.
How has that shaped the tools and strategies
that you share with your audience?
Because I think a lot of people, like we share things
but I always try to be careful of like,
this is things that may work for you.
(33:54):
This is like stuff that worked for us.
But in the sense, and we always say like,
we're not, we're professionals in our own group.
We're not professional.
Like we're not, we're not you.
We're not a professional, professional.
We're just like professional grievers.
So how would you describe what you share
with your community?
Obviously the education in it,
but how would you describe, like say your content
(34:18):
and the strategies that you give
with your audience are different?
I think that my education and professional experience
and lived experience all really, you know,
I think through all the years of that,
I've gained such an appreciation
of people's individual differences
through grief and through trauma.
And I think that that's a really great thing
(34:39):
because for me, when I look at someone
or when I'm hearing someone share their story,
I don't, my mind doesn't go to categorizing them.
And I really just listen to hear what's worked for them
or how they're coping or how they're impacted
because you and I, three of us, you know,
we've lost our dad,
but we probably had entirely different experiences.
We can connect with each other on the feeling,
(35:01):
but the experiences and the impact are different.
So I think really embracing people's individual differences.
And for me, I tailor programming
and how I continue building my relationship
with that particular client or individual based on that
and based on who they are as an individual.
And also like understanding things developmentally,
like working with children and youth and having education.
(35:23):
It makes me really appreciate how
when we experience trauma at such a young age
or as our brain is developing,
that really, really impacts our development,
emotionally, socially, everything.
So I think I just approach life and working with people
and creating content in that way
where I'm viewing it through a developmental lens
(35:45):
and viewing it in a way that can connect
with different people experiencing different things.
Yeah, I, when we create content, like I said,
like we try to do like, this is, this might work for you.
You might wanna just try something if nothing's working,
you know, these are different things.
I think though, also because we always do it,
like there's no absolute, like everyone's different.
(36:08):
That I think it almost comes off not,
not that we need to be like an authority on grief or anything,
but I think there's people that say, this is what will help.
Don't say that this is somebody, do this, do that.
And people really respond to that,
whether they're a griever or not,
that type of the way that you do it
or the way that you share.
(36:29):
And we're not like that because in our experience
and from talking to other people in the grief community,
that's just not how it is.
Like something that worked for me
and it might not work for Kendall,
she might lean to one thing, I might not lean to that.
So we never like to come off as like, this is how you do it.
This is the only way, but it is hard
because I feel like people respond when you say it
and like, this is how you do it.
But it's just like, we have to just stay being ourselves
(36:52):
and what we think might help or like we wanna share
just to provide another idea or thought
because it might help you.
Like Kendall has said a lot of things
that like made me think about things differently
or change something or try something else.
And it's something I would have never thought of,
(37:12):
but it might not work for the next person.
And I think that's the hard thing
where you see some people just like speaking in absolutes.
So I love that you said like you tailor it to each person
because everyone is so different
and their experience is so different.
And like, yeah, like you said, like we all lost our dad,
but our experiences are all different still.
Like we can relate, but not every little piece of it,
(37:36):
we have our own differences.
Our pain is always gonna be the hardest to ourselves
because it's our pain.
So I think that's where it's like an interesting balance
of we share from our heart and things that we had helped us
or we wanna try, but we never do it in a way
that's like, this is the only way
or this is the absolute, but it is interesting.
You see like some people do
(37:57):
and like that's what people respond to
and like ask so many questions.
And I'm like, okay, well, I don't wanna change.
Like me and Kendall don't wanna change.
Because you know why, like a lot of our brains
are geared toward gravitating to solutions.
So if someone's telling us you follow one, two, three,
you're gonna be good.
We're more inclined to try it,
(38:17):
but that's also so harmful to someone
because when it doesn't work out for them,
you're like, well, I'm back to isolating
because that didn't work for me.
You said it was gonna work for me.
So I guess there's something wrong with me.
So I think your language is so important
and it's responsibility of creators,
especially mental health professionals
or people who are commenting
(38:38):
on mental health related issues
to be mindful of their language
because you do have an influence on,
even if it's one person, if you have such a small following,
someone is looking at your stuff.
So be mindful of the words you're using.
And yeah, not everyone will fit into that same box.
Yeah, there's, I don't wanna say like a series,
but we had various different episodes
(39:01):
surrounding how people who are never experienced grief
or loss can talk to people who are grieving
because I'm sure your experience too,
you were told or heard a lot of things from people
from a good place, but it might have actually been
like something like, I didn't actually need to hear that.
That wasn't actually very helpful to my journey.
(39:22):
And so we've tried to offer different,
like here are things that really would be helpful
to a griever to hear or really helpful in their support,
even if like you don't have the right words
because at the end of the day,
when you're trying to comfort someone
and their loss and their grief,
there really aren't the right words to fix the fact
(39:43):
that they've lost someone important
and trying to really emphasize that like the action
and the love speaks louder than words
and how you support people.
And so yeah, we've tried, we've done a series around that
with talking about, because I have, I have great friends
and I love them and they were so great to me.
And my time of like deep grief and loss
(40:06):
and I was crying every day and they were still there for me
and still picked me up.
But the same thing, like you said earlier,
they didn't know how to connect with that.
They've never experienced that point of sadness themselves.
And so trying to be like, here's a toolkit
for those people to help those grievers in their lives.
Yeah, we did preface by saying like,
you know your griever best.
So like, these are just like,
(40:27):
so you don't walk in completely blind.
Like here are some ideas.
Like these are things that we would have liked
or that we did like that were nice
or that maybe we do now for other grievers,
but like, you know your person.
Like maybe someone will love flowers.
Maybe someone wants cookies.
Maybe someone wants you to leave them a hell alone.
Like, I don't know this person, you know,
(40:47):
like you need to know your person.
And we always say like, these are things that helped us.
We're just trying to help you like not go in blind,
but you're the only one that knows your person.
I don't even know who's listening.
Like you have to still tailor it.
And yeah, I think that's the hard part where people,
like you said, like if you just do it, absolutely.
Like we don't know exactly what's gonna help somebody.
(41:10):
We're just trying to be like,
this is better than nothing because it helped us
and this is our experience,
but still like tailor it to your person.
Like we don't know them at all.
So I think that's important for those resources.
Like you said, like you tailor it to each person
because it's just everyone handles it differently.
Which low key plug, if you are listening
(41:34):
and you know a griever,
someone's grieving a little way right now,
like these card decks would be amazing.
I would love to get a card deck if someone got it for me.
So if you're looking for gifts for grievers,
that's a good one.
So going back to providing resources
just to touch back on the anticipatory loss
for those who are listening and might see that,
(41:58):
death might be on the horizon for someone in their lives
and they're like prepping for that inevitability.
Do you have any advice for them listening
or any strategies that could help them?
Cause if they're listening, it's probably pretty dark.
Yeah, and to piggyback on our last conversation,
it might not work for you.
(42:19):
I do have some tips and things to be mindful of,
but anticipatory grief is a tricky one
and it is a tough space to work through
because you can have all of these things prepped.
So when you do experience that loss,
it's like nothing you've ever imagined before
and nothing you could have prepared for.
But I think generally speaking, know your support,
(42:40):
know the people that are comfortable and okay
with sitting in darkness with you
and still showing you that they love you
because those are gems of people.
But these are also the people that wanna celebrate you
on your really good days.
So know your support.
And I will say that not all of us have that
and I didn't have that.
I had completely lost an entire group of friends.
(43:02):
I was alone for the first summer that I had lost my dad
when I was 18 and it was really tough.
So sometimes it takes you a while to find your tribe
and your people.
And so don't be discouraged if you don't have that.
Just knowing some supports,
even if they're virtual supports,
like different pages or different people you look up to.
So having those things in place for yourself
(43:24):
and also communicating in advance.
So if you're someone who is going to school
or you're working,
you might feel a little bit that shame
and that worry of people aren't gonna understand,
but for the most part,
people are more compassionate than we give them credit for.
Don't wanna say that happens all the time,
but generally speaking.
So have conversations with your professors,
(43:47):
your teachers, your boss.
Just let them know what's going on
because you don't know how you're gonna be
when that loss comes and how you're communicating.
You might just drop off completely.
So have those conversations.
And I would just say generally be kind to yourself
because yeah, change is hard
and just be kind and patient with yourself.
(44:08):
Don't feel like you have to rush
to get back to a certain part of your life
or anything like that.
This is your moment to feel and be present
and just work with what's in front of you.
So be kind to yourself and patient.
Yeah, I always say, when people say like,
oh, I can never imagine,
(44:29):
I'm like, don't even bother.
Because if you imagine, it's way worse.
It feels way worse.
Don't spend time feeling sad and anxiety
for what it might feel like
because it's gonna feel way worse
and it's just so much more painful when it actually happens.
I used to stress about mythical,
(44:50):
in middle school, give my mom to answer her phone.
I'd freak out like, oh my God, something happened to my mom.
That was wasted time because when it actually happened,
that hurt way more than whatever I could have pictured
in my head or thought it was gonna be.
So I'm like, don't waste time feeling that emotion
because whatever you're feeling isn't even close.
So just like when it happens, feel that,
(45:13):
oh, you're not gonna have a choice,
but it's gonna happen.
So just don't try to think about
what it's gonna feel like because that is way-
Focus on what you can control.
Yeah.
It said your support, it's your communication.
Those are things you have control of.
Yeah, because that, no control over it.
(45:36):
So what's next for Girls Gotta Heal?
Do you have any new projects or initiatives,
writing thing coming up that you wanna share?
I think I'm due for a new self-help tool.
So we'll hopefully be working on that this year.
Last year, I introduced some in-person events,
so I'd love to get in that space this year.
Everything I've been doing for Girls Gotta Heal
(45:57):
has been online.
So I've done support groups and things like that,
which have been so great and beautiful,
especially during pandemic time.
We're connecting with people in different countries.
It's been awesome.
But I really like the in-person connection.
There's just such energy you pick up from people.
So doing more in-person events
(46:18):
and just creating more content based on
what the community is needing and me
and how I'm changing as well.
I'm just developing a new version of myself.
And I've seen so many versions of myself
from the start of GGH to now.
Just really honoring her and where she's at
and shaping some content around it and just improving.
That's so exciting.
(46:39):
How can people who are listening right now find you?
What are your handles on social media?
Where do you want people to learn more about you?
Yeah, so my Instagram is girlsgottakeal.
My website is girlsgottakeal.com.
I also have a podcast, the girlsgottakeal podcast.
And those are the main places you can find me.
We'll also add them in the show notes.
(47:01):
So it was so amazing talking to you
and hearing about your journey with Girls Gotta Heal
and grief and all these things.
I think it's really great to have the perspective
of someone that's actually like a registered psychotherapist
speak on it and give their opinion on it.
I think we have a lot of people sharing their grief
from their own experiences, but it's nice to kind of,
(47:21):
I think, set a level of like, OK, this is what it is
when you're actually like a registered professional
and not just a professional griever, as we say.
This is our tagline.
Thank you so much for coming on.
And we're so excited for everyone
to listen to this episode.
Have a great day, everyone.
Thank you.
Did you experience loss at a young age
(47:42):
or struggle with compounded grief?
Let us introduce you to Carm.
She's a registered psychotherapist and founder
of Girls Gotta Heal.
Carm's mission is to help young women navigate loss
with resilience and grace.
Don't miss this conversation for some great practical.
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