June 2, 2025 • 29 mins
A former NSA Russian linguist shares deep cultural insights to help listeners understand Vladimir Putin and Russia's actions in Ukraine from a historical and psychological perspective.
• Russians fundamentally differ from Americans in their worldview and expectations
• Russians experience genuine surprise when things work out well, while Americans are surprised when they don't
• Russian history is defined by suffering, invasions, and endurance rather than triumph
• Putin represents Russian cultural values as a "Slavophile" who views Russia as a holy place
• Russia's vulnerable geography has shaped its historical need for buffer states
• The invasion of Ukraine stems from centuries of Russian security paranoia
• Current Ukrainian conflict requires both pressure and incentives to reach resolution
• American weakness under Biden administration has complicated the situation significantly
• Understanding Russian psychology is essential to developing effective diplomatic strategies
Pick up a copy of my book "A Radical Reset: The Manifesto of Anti-Politism Which Will Save the Republic" available on Amazon in Kindle, paperback, or hardcover formats, and please share this podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello there guys.
It's me Herbie, your host hereat the Spiritual Agnostic, where
I take a more cultural,spiritual point of view, where I
understand that as religionreduces and America in
particular our culture isreduced by that, and I'm hoping
that hopefully we can talkphilosophy to replace the void
(00:26):
being left by the absence of God.
Now I also relate that tocurrent events.
This is a really weird podcast.
I know the title isn't reallyright either.
I should change it to thespiritual agnostic who opines on
whatever pops into his head.
But listen, that'll have tojust spread by word of mouth.
You know, either I'm good atthis or I'm bad, and you decide
that and that's that All right,and I'm not going to lose a lot
(00:46):
of sleep over it.
I'm going to talk to you todayabout Russia and Vladimir Putin.
I'm especially good at thisbecause I was a Russian linguist
at the National Security Agency.
I speak Today I would sayfluent might be the wrong word.
I'm fairly fluent in Russian,but I understand it perfectly
(01:07):
because I just don't speak itvery often.
I wish I spoke it more, but aswe say in Russian, which means I
need practice and I just don'tget a chance to do that very
often.
I have Ukrainian neighbors andthey speak Russian and I talk to
them every time I see themreally, but just not enough to
keep myself up.
But anyway, I do have anunderstanding of Russia and
Russians and I even have a topsecret clearance kind of
(01:29):
understanding.
So you know, I know a lot aboutwhat went on, particularly in
the Soviet Union before it fell,but that's part of the history.
We're going to talk about what.
As we're looking at what'sgoing on in Ukraine and with
Russia, I'm going to try to helpyou understand what's really
going on beyond the news, from ahuman, cultural level, and who.
Vladimir Putin and it'sVladimir Putin, if you want to
(01:51):
say it the Russian way and his,you know, if you were a friend
of his, you would call himVladimir Vladimirovich.
Russians don't use middle names,they have something called
patronymics.
So my first name obviously isHerbie and my father's name was
Kalman.
So I would be HerbieKalmanovich and if I was a woman
(02:12):
I'd be Kalmanovna.
That's just a little differentname.
So when you hear Russianwomen's names, there's always an
Ovna at the end, and when youhear Russian men's names,
there's always an Ovich at theend, and whatever name comes
before the Ovič or the Ivna isthe name of their father.
So you know my daughter wouldbe.
It sounds so ridiculous I'mgoing to use my middle name.
(02:33):
I actually have a Russianmiddle name because my
grandfather was Russian Jewish,so my middle name is Ivan Ivan
in Russian.
So my daughter, chloe, would beChloe Ivanovich, and my
daughter and Chloe would beChloe Ivanovna.
Sorry, chloe Ivanovna, but myson, julian would be Julian
Ivanovich.
Okay, so there you go.
(02:53):
That's the whole Russian thing.
I don't know why I went downthat with you, but I just
thought it'd help you understandit for the future.
Anyway, so Vlad was a formerKGB agent.
But that's not really.
That's what lazy media does,because they don't bother to
understand.
Russians and Americans have afundamentally, fundamentally
from its very core differentview of the world.
(03:16):
You know our history.
Even the bad parts were onlypauses on the way to victory, if
you think about it.
From our revolution to the Warof 1812, to the Civil War, to
freeing the slaves, to World WarI, world War II, korea, vietnam
(03:37):
, we've had wins, we've hadlosses, but always along the way
we've ended up triumphing inthe end, right up to the end of
the Cold War, when we defeatedthe Soviet Union, by the way, I
knew we would way before it came.
Ronald Reagan just said what weall knew in the intelligence
world, which was Russia, was abig paper tiger imploding on
itself.
The Soviet Union was.
(03:58):
But anyway, big is notnecessarily strong, so
understand that.
Russian history is not likeours.
I'm not going to go through arehash of American history, but
we conquered a continent,settled it and dominated it, and
have become the dominant powerin the world by being victorious
in the Second World War,emerging as the world's
industrial and technologicalsuperpower, which by far, we
(04:20):
still are today.
It's not even a horse race.
By far we still are today.
It's not even a horse race.
I'll speak to China some otherday.
And so here we are and we aregenerally a triumphant people.
You know we're fighting amongstourselves now between the
apologists who want to look ateverything we've ever done wrong
and, you know, apologize for it, like reparations and nonsense
(04:41):
like that.
And we also have people who areMAGA, who are just the opposite
.
But overall Americans, in theend, when push comes to shove,
we always think it's going towork out.
We're kind of surprised if itdoesn't.
Regardless of what side of anissue we're on.
We always think that in the endour side will be triumphant
because we're on the side ofright and we are Americans and
(05:04):
things always turn out right forAmericans sooner or later.
That's the American way.
That is not the Russian way.
Russians are genuinelysurprised if anything ever works
.
That's not a joke.
So I actually had a Russianexplain this to me Back at the
time the Soviet Union fell.
I volunteered for Jewish FamilyServices in Tucson, arizona, and
(05:30):
I was the only really Russianspeaker they had.
So I would go to the airport inthe middle of the night
generally Again, I don't knowwhy it always came in at the
middle of the night, but italways did and I would meet the
plane with the mostly RussianJewish refugees coming in from
the former Soviet Union and theyspoke absolutely no English and
I would meet them and I wouldtake them.
We had rented an entireapartment complex and I would
take them to their apartment andget them settled in and the
(05:51):
next day I would come and Iwould take them to the local
fries which is Kroger in Arizona.
So, wherever you live, and Iwould stock up their
refrigerator, I would get themtheir social security cards.
I would get them, you know, setthem up with their green cards
and all that kind of good stuffthat were all arranged, and I
did all yada, yada, yada, yada,yada.
I don't want to bore you withall of it, but I was their
(06:13):
liaison and I made a lot of goodfriends as a result of that and
it was one of those Russiansthat really enlightened me and
said to me you know, the thingabout Americans that you don't
understand is that you guys aregenuinely surprised when things
don't turn out the way you thinkor hope they will, and we
Russians are genuinely surprisedif they do.
And if you look at theirhistory, it's one of suffering.
(06:35):
If you read Russian literature,it's the literature of
suffering Russian literature.
Right now I'm rereading AnnaKarenina, which I think is the
greatest book ever written.
You can decide for yourself.
I'm not going to go into aliterary discussion, but I
haven't read it in many, manyyears.
So I'm rereading it and just soyou don't think I'm a braggart,
I'm reading it in English.
(06:55):
I have tried to read it inRussian.
It's way past me.
That's what I can say.
But the thing about AnnaKarenina is that it's very dark.
Things don't go well ever inRussian literature there's no
happy endings.
It's just not the way it works.
No one rides off into thesunset Russia.
You know why don't?
For example, I don't know ifyou've ever noticed this, but a
(07:16):
lot of Russians seem to have.
They seem to be European incolor, but they have Asiatic
features.
That's because for centuriesthe people they called the
Tatars, that we call the Mongols, took over Russia and raped and
when I say raped, raped on ascale of millions their women,
before they were finally drivenout.
(07:37):
And they were driven out to bereplaced by the first Tsar, who
was Ivan the Terrible, who, in afit of rage, killed his only
heir.
I mean, this is how Russian and, by the way, in Russia he's not
Ivan the Terrible, he's Ivanthe Great, which tells you
exactly.
There are plenty of Russiansthat know everything that Stalin
(07:58):
did and forgive it, becausesometimes you have to break some
eggs to make an omelet, astrite as that sounds to an
American ear.
What I'm trying to explain toyou is the Russians, really,
when they do win, it's onlythrough endurance.
They outlasted Napoleon, theyoutlasted Hitler, but boy did
they take a horrible beating InWorld War II.
We lost roughly a half amillion men give or take.
(08:21):
In World War II.
They lost 20 million people andtheir population was half of
ours to begin with.
As big as Russia is, a lot ofit is virtually uninhabitable.
It's mostly concentrated in theEuropean area.
And that brings us to Putin.
So Putin is a product of hisculture.
He's very, very Russian, and tounderstand that is to also know
(08:46):
that he's what's called aSlavophile.
Now, a Slavophile is a personwho views Russia not just as a
place, but as a holy place.
Don't make fun of the spiritualpeople.
This is where this man's comingfrom.
He believes in Holy MotherRussia.
He is Orthodox.
He's not a practicing Orthodox,but he's Orthodox.
(09:06):
Now, orthodoxy for those of youwho don't understand it is the
break off.
The Catholic Church split, andthe Eastern Orthodox version of
it was in Byzantium, which istoday Istanbul, and the Catholic
Church, as we know it washeadquartered and is
headquartered in Rome, althoughbriefly, not briefly.
(09:27):
For a long time it was inFrance, but then it went back to
anyway.
It's a long history.
I'm not going down that holeeither, but anyway, the way I
like to explain the EasternOrthodox, particularly the
Russian Orthodox Church, versusCatholicism is to basically say
it's Catholicism without thesense of humor which you know.
You guys get the joke right.
(09:49):
I don't have to explain it.
So it is not a happy religion.
It's not a happy people.
They are dark Russians.
Don't walk down the streetsmiling like Americans.
So let's start with that.
When Vladimir Putin, when aRussian they're not the only
culture you know we Americanswere open.
Donald Trump thinks that helikes, you know he likes
Vladimir Putin.
(10:09):
He thinks he understands him.
He's not the first Americanpresident to fall for that joke.
You know George Bush said helooked into Putin's eyes and saw
his soul and blah, blah, blah.
And Bill Clinton, thought, saidthat Vladimir Putin was a man
you could count on to keep hispromises.
I mean, americans fall for thisbecause we are preternaturally
(10:31):
cheerful.
Okay, again, we expect a goodoutcome.
We want everyone to be ourfriends.
It's the same reason why DonaldTrump talks about.
You know, kim is his friend inNorth Korea and she and I are
friends.
That's just American, you know.
It's just.
Maybe every American doesn'tvoice it quite as loud as Donald
(10:51):
Trump, but that's very Americanto think you're making a human
connection on a human level withpeople that are not really
looking at you from the samecultural perspective.
Now I want you to look at a mapof the United States this is the
final thing to understand thedifference between Russia and
America and how Putin looks atthe world, and this will explain
(11:11):
what he's trying to do inUkraine, and then I'll explain
the risks and then I'll explainwhat has to be done to end this
war Really, truly Okay.
So, number one look at a map ofthe United States.
We've got the two major oceansof the world the Atlantic and
Pacific on both sides, whichmakes invasion impossible.
We'd see it coming fromthousands of miles away.
And we have friendly neighborsto our north and south and we're
(11:34):
never going to fight a war witheither Canada or Mexico.
We invaded Mexico a few times.
They didn't try to pick a fightwith us, god knows, and that's
the history of that.
But today that's just not goingto.
Mexico is in no position topick a fight with the United
States and they're not planningto.
I've spent a lot of time inMexico.
They're not trying to.
They're a little resentful thatwe have, but that's another
story for another day.
(11:56):
But basically we're surroundedby nothing but safety.
Pearl Harbor was hit in WorldWar II, but we responded by
beating the living shit out ofthe Japanese and nuking them
twice.
So, basically, america is anincredibly safe country and we
have the luckiest geography wepossibly could.
But add to that, we have theMississippi River and all of its
tributaries running down thedead center of the country,
(12:18):
which, oh, by the way, is thelargest flat-growing area in the
world.
So we have this phenomenalwater source running down the
middle that's almost entirelynavigable north to south, unlike
there are other long rivers inthe world, like the Don River in
Russia, okay, and the Volga,and they're long, but they're
not entirely navigable and theydon't have tributaries that are
(12:39):
navigable.
But Mississippi has the Ohio,the Missouri, the Tennessee I
don't know the whole list, butthey're all navigable.
So that opens up trade down thecenter of the country, which
set us up to win to begin with.
And then we had a fairlyvisionary early government when
it used to know what it was inbusiness to do, and they built
(13:01):
things like the Erie Canal whichconnected the Great Lakes to
the East Coast, and the GreatLakes that's another thing we
have for enormous amounts ofcommerce and shipping out into
the Atlantic ultimately.
But we can take it now becauseof the Erie Canal down through
New York, or at least in thosedays.
I'm not sure what the currentstatus is.
Shipping has evolved a lot, soI don't pretend to be an expert,
(13:23):
but the point is our geographyis unbelievably lucky.
We have great weather, verymoderate, even our coldest
states unbelievably lucky.
We have great weather, verymoderate, even our coldest
states.
You know, little side note thereason that, for example, the
south of France is warm whenit's on the same latitude as
Newfoundland, basically, orMaine, is because of the Gulf
Stream.
The Gulf Stream crosses theAtlantic and brings warm water
(13:44):
up and touches Europe and that'swhy Europe is warmer than it
would be colder than thenorthern parts of Canada
otherwise.
So that's just a little sidenote and a little climate fact
for you today.
It has nothing to do with whatI'm talking about Now.
Let's go and take a look at amap of Russia.
Russia is surrounded bycountries that have invaded it
(14:04):
over and over and over again.
It's been invaded by the Tatars, or the Mongols as we would
call them.
As I told you, it's beeninvaded by the Europeans,
various ones, the Swedes.
I know that sounds funny intoday's parlance, but there was
a time when Sweden was a greatempire and just kicked the shit
out of Russia.
It's been invaded by theGermans.
(14:26):
It's been invaded by the French.
It's been invaded by the French.
It's been invaded by the Poles.
The Poles, historically, werealso a great power that for
quite a time ran roughshod onthe Russians and the Russians
outlasted them all.
But that's how they do it.
They don't do it throughbrilliance or technology or the
better equipment or industrialoutput.
(14:46):
They just basically throwpeople at it.
That's how they did it in WorldWar II.
They just threw people at it.
That's the story of Stalingrad,you know.
It was basically charged andwhen you fall in or killed, you
pick up the rifle.
Since they didn't have enoughrifles this is absolutely true
they'd pick up the rifles andwere ordered to, of the dead
people, pick it up and run untilthey were shot dead, who would
then be followed by other guyswho would pick it up and run
until they were shot dead.
(15:07):
And that gives you some idea ofnot only how tough Russians are
, but of the psychology ofRussians.
And this is what feeds VladimirPutin, who was born into the
world subsequent to World War II.
He grew up under Stalin.
He did his career as a KGBagent.
This is a real Russian.
A real Russian, not a communist.
(15:30):
A Russian Understand that.
Now let's look at the map ofRussia again.
Not only is it concentrated, aspopulation, in just one area,
and not only does it havenothing like the Mississippi
River, and not only does it haveonly one navigable warm water
port well, two, if you includeVladivostok.
But given the size of thecountry, it's unbelievably
(15:50):
difficult to transport anythingfrom east to west in Russia.
It takes days and days and it'shorrible.
It's just not practical.
All those geographicdisabilities, and on top of all
of that, they are the largestcountry in the world.
They're very, very.
They have a mystical feelingabout Mother Russia because of
(16:11):
the Russian Orthodox Church andthe tradition that seeps within
their culture.
And the only way to defend acountry that size, who's been
invaded only over and over andover again, is to push out its
borders, which is why Ukrainewas historically, for the last
five centuries or so, a part ofRussia.
Russia took Ukraine and made itits own because it was a buffer
(16:34):
against invasion from the Turksand from the West.
Okay, look at a map.
They are as afraid of us as weare of them.
Now that's why Putin's goal isnot just to keep the parts of
Ukraine that he has.
Like Trump wants to believe,his goal is to take all of
Ukraine.
He thought it would fall easy.
(16:54):
It was a horriblemiscalculation, but regardless,
that's the goal.
Take the country.
Okay, he will call.
Trump's mistake here is thatyou have to go with Putin, and
here's the solution.
It has to be carrot and stickand boy.
This is going to.
You know, we've got ourselves.
Let me back up just for a momentand say under no circumstances,
(17:18):
if I had been President Bidenat the time and not senile,
would I have ever, ever gottenus involved in this.
I would have let Russia takeUkraine Because I would have
understood and not because it'sa good thing and not because I
support that, but I understandwhy he did it and there's no
threat to the other NATOcountries, even though we
instigated the attack in manyways by causing Russian paranoia
(17:40):
.
After centuries and centuriesand centuries of being invaded
from the West, we pushed theenemy NATO to their border when
we promised we wouldn't in 1992.
We did it anyway, and theRussians are.
Look at it from their point ofview, look at the map, look at
their country and this is whyPutin invaded Ukraine.
Now why did he pick the momenthe did?
(18:02):
Because he knew we had a senilepresident.
He had met Biden.
He knew Biden was out of it andhe made a calculated risk that
the Ukrainians would lay downand it was a stupid risk.
And he made a calculated riskthat the Ukrainians would lay
down and it was a stupid risk.
He really stepped into a pileof poop.
He's not infallible.
Now he has to get out of it.
But as a Russian he can't getout of it by making a deal
because he'll be overthrown.
Russians all think like Putin.
(18:22):
If you think that if we got ridof Putin we'd have a different
guy, we would just have anotherPutin.
Putin is essentially Russian.
He we would just have anotherPutin.
Putin is essentially Russian.
He's not American.
He doesn't naturally smile ateverybody.
He doesn't walk into everyconversation thinking he's going
to make a friend out of you.
He is deeply suspicious becausehe's Russian.
Russians are wonderful peopleonce they get to know you.
(18:43):
It's the get-to-know-you partthat's different.
They're not Americans.
They're not chubby.
They don't smile at each otheron the street.
If you smile at a Russianwalking down the streets of
Moscow, they could probably tellright away you're an American,
but otherwise they think you'reout of your goddamn mind.
Okay, it's as simple as that,and you can reduce it to
humanity and understand Putin.
(19:04):
So what needs to be done?
We have two choices.
We can either abandon Ukraine,which I can completely
understand, all of theconsequences of that, which
would be very, very bad in many,many ways Another discussion
for another day or we're goingto have to, now that we've
gotten sucked into this.
This is how World War I started.
(19:25):
You start with nothing and itturns out we are in real danger
here of crossing a threshold.
So we have to dance a verydelicate dance of carrot and
stick.
So, as I record this, ukrainehad carried out a massive drone
attack inside of Russia thatthey had been planning for a
very long time.
Read about it.
It's very clever how they didit.
It reminds me of the Israeliattack with the pagers.
(19:46):
It's been in the planning for,I think, about a year and a half
, but anyway it was effective.
We're going to have to take thegloves off Ukraine, short of
nuclear weapons, and let them goafter Russia in Russia, because
without the stick, and thenhold out the carrot of before
you just retaliate and go tostrategic nuclear weapons in the
(20:06):
battlefield, which is the risk,and Russia could do,
calculating that the West wouldnever use intercontinental
missiles to retaliate and defendUkraine from battlefield
nuclear weapons, which are whatwe used to call neutron weapons
smaller, less fallout, so on andso forth.
Not that there's ever, but thisis the world that Joe Biden has
(20:26):
gotten us into through hissenility.
This is why covering up hismental and being complicit in
the gaslighting of America isthe worst scandal in American
history and maybe world historyby far.
And Biden is a villain becausewhile he was senile, he knew
what was going on.
He had good days and on thosegood days he was fully complicit
in his own lies.
(20:47):
So I blame this all on Bidenand everyone around him that
we're in this mess, but we're init and we only have two choices
.
One is surrender and lay down,which will destroy.
The world operates on the dollar, and the dollar is the dollar,
because America maintains thepeace of the world in terms of
at least trade.
While we shouldn't beinterventionist anymore and
(21:10):
President Trump is absolutelyright about that we should also.
We can't be isolationist.
You know we have if we don'tkeep the seas open for shipping.
Someone else will get involved,if history has taught us, and
we won't like what it is so andthat's why the dollar gets, and
that's why we get away with ourdebt.
Because if the dollar weren'tthe world's currency, you know
why we get away with our debt.
Because if the dollar weren'tthe world's currency, you know
(21:31):
trading currency we would beright down the tubes.
It's all interconnected.
That's why we can't just say tomake simple solutions, let's
just get out of there.
Yeah, if we just get out ofthere, the party's over.
So we'll have a depression.
And even if we don't have aworld war, we'll have a
depression because the dollarwill lose its special status as
countries stop believing usbecause we don't stand behind
(21:52):
our friends.
And the next thing, you knowit'll be a shit show.
So that's entirely predictable.
Let's not do that.
On the other hand, the course isdangerous.
We're going to have to give,together with our European
partners, the Ukrainians whatthey need to inflict a lot of
damage inside of Russia and tryto exert control enough over the
(22:14):
Ukrainians that they don'tliterally try to assassinate
Putin in the Kremlin, and youknow which would kick off.
God only knows what?
But they might do it because,again, they're not Russians, but
they're Slavs and they'veendured enormous suffering.
I mean, read what Stalin did tothe Ukrainians.
It'll make your blood run cold.
(22:35):
As a Jew, I identify with itonly because it was very
Holocaust-y.
Okay, if you, you know, whenthey talk about genocide today,
that is a word that gets thrownaround a lot, that people don't.
You know, the killing of whitefarmers in South Africa is
horrible, and I'd let them intothe country for sure, but that's
not a genocide.
Okay, what's going on in Gazais what happens in a war, but
(22:57):
it's not genocide.
Okay, genocide is what Stalincarried out in the Ukraine.
Check it out.
Genocide is what Hitler carriedout against the Jews and the
gypsies, to a lesser extent,although plenty, I'm not trying
to say just less of them.
I mean, believe me, theysuffered too.
So, listen, we have to becareful throwing around these
(23:18):
words.
So the bottom line here is we'regoing to have to basically
inflict enough damage that Putinmakes a tactical decision which
is the only way you're going toget Russia to make a deal in
which he decides that his bestchance to hold power is to make
the deal, because right now he'sgoing to call our bluff because
all we're dangling is thecarrot.
(23:39):
Oh, and that's what I was goingto say.
The carrot has to be a bigcarrot.
All sanctions off.
Americans allowed free trade,no tariffs, no, nothing.
Russia is right back inbusiness.
We have to basically enticethem with money that's our money
, or destruction has got to bethe only choices.
They don't respect reason, youknow.
The idea is that.
You know Trump keeps sayingthere's a lot of killing going
(24:00):
on.
I believe he's 100% sincere.
I don't think he likes killing.
He's been, if you look atTrump's record, for decades.
He's been anti-war from thevery start.
He was anti-Gulf War way beforeit was fashionable and I'm
fashionable and I'm talking GulfWar I, not just II.
So you know Trump just doesn'tlike the whole concept.
That's why he's trying to makea deal with Iran, for example,
(24:20):
as opposed to just lettingIsrael bomb him into the Stone
Age, because he would prefer notkilling all the people working
inside of those plants.
That's all the evidence.
You need to understand that,because Israel and the United
States certainly have thecapability to flatten Iran.
So the bottom line here is folks, we are in a terrible position
as a result of, I believe, beingweak, and that weakness coming
(24:48):
as the result of a president whowas non-compassmentist much of
the time and therefore acommittee was acting as
president, and committees neverdo the right thing, they always
do the go along, get along thing.
So you get mediocre decisions.
And here we are and we're stuck.
But the way to deal with Putinis not to appeal to his humanity
, it's to appeal to his fear.
That's the only thing Russianswill understand and that's where
(25:11):
I'm going to leave thisdiscussion and I'm publishing it
two podcasts in one day,because this just occurred to me
and I just felt like doing it.
And it's Monday afternoon and Icould hold off publishing this
till Wednesday, but I think, ah,what the hell, I'll throw it
out there, because between nowand Wednesday, god only knows
what will happen.
So I'll leave it there.
You have a beautiful rest ofyour day and until the next time
.
This is Herbie saying.
(25:32):
God bless you.
Oh, by the way, don't forget topick up I never promote myself
pick up a copy of a radicalreset, the manifesto of
anti-politism which will savethe republic, and you can pick
up your copy at Amazon, eitherin Kindle paperback or hardcover
.
A radical reset by me, herbie K, and don't forget to share the
podcast.
You know that, but I suppose Ishould say it have a beautiful
(25:54):
day and I'll talk to you nexttime.
Hello there guys.
It's me Herbie, your host hereat the Spiritual Agnostic, where
I take a more cultural,spiritual point of view, where I
understand that as religionreduces and America in
particular our culture isreduced by that, and I'm hoping
that hopefully we can talkphilosophy to replace the void
(00:26):
being left by the absence of God.
Now I also relate that tocurrent events.
This is a really weird podcast.
I know the title isn't reallyright either.
I should change it to thespiritual agnostic who opines on
whatever pops into his head.
But listen, that'll have tojust spread by word of mouth.
You know, either I'm good atthis or I'm bad, and you decide
that and that's that All right,and I'm not going to lose a lot
(00:46):
of sleep over it.
I'm going to talk to you todayabout Russia and Vladimir Putin.
I'm especially good at thisbecause I was a Russian linguist
at the National Security Agency.
I speak Today I would sayfluent might be the wrong word.
I'm fairly fluent in Russian,but I understand it perfectly
(01:07):
because I just don't speak itvery often.
I wish I spoke it more, but aswe say in Russian, which means I
need practice and I just don'tget a chance to do that very
often.
I have Ukrainian neighbors andthey speak Russian and I talk to
them every time I see themreally, but just not enough to
keep myself up.
But anyway, I do have anunderstanding of Russia and
Russians and I even have a topsecret clearance kind of
(01:29):
understanding.
So you know, I know a lot aboutwhat went on, particularly in
the Soviet Union before it fell,but that's part of the history.
We're going to talk about what.
As we're looking at what'sgoing on in Ukraine and with
Russia, I'm going to try to helpyou understand what's really
going on beyond the news, from ahuman, cultural level, and who.
Vladimir Putin and it'sVladimir Putin, if you want to
(01:51):
say it the Russian way and his,you know, if you were a friend
of his, you would call himVladimir Vladimirovich.
Russians don't use middle names,they have something called
patronymics.
So my first name obviously isHerbie and my father's name was
Kalman.
So I would be HerbieKalmanovich and if I was a woman
(02:12):
I'd be Kalmanovna.
That's just a little differentname.
So when you hear Russianwomen's names, there's always an
Ovna at the end, and when youhear Russian men's names,
there's always an Ovich at theend, and whatever name comes
before the Ovič or the Ivna isthe name of their father.
So you know my daughter wouldbe.
It sounds so ridiculous I'mgoing to use my middle name.
(02:33):
I actually have a Russianmiddle name because my
grandfather was Russian Jewish,so my middle name is Ivan Ivan
in Russian.
So my daughter, chloe, would beChloe Ivanovich, and my
daughter and Chloe would beChloe Ivanovna.
Sorry, chloe Ivanovna, but myson, julian would be Julian
Ivanovich.
Okay, so there you go.
(02:53):
That's the whole Russian thing.
I don't know why I went downthat with you, but I just
thought it'd help you understandit for the future.
Anyway, so Vlad was a formerKGB agent.
But that's not really.
That's what lazy media does,because they don't bother to
understand.
Russians and Americans have afundamentally, fundamentally
from its very core differentview of the world.
(03:16):
You know our history.
Even the bad parts were onlypauses on the way to victory, if
you think about it.
From our revolution to the Warof 1812, to the Civil War, to
freeing the slaves, to World WarI, world War II, korea, vietnam
(03:37):
, we've had wins, we've hadlosses, but always along the way
we've ended up triumphing inthe end, right up to the end of
the Cold War, when we defeatedthe Soviet Union, by the way, I
knew we would way before it came.
Ronald Reagan just said what weall knew in the intelligence
world, which was Russia, was abig paper tiger imploding on
itself.
The Soviet Union was.
(03:58):
But anyway, big is notnecessarily strong, so
understand that.
Russian history is not likeours.
I'm not going to go through arehash of American history, but
we conquered a continent,settled it and dominated it, and
have become the dominant powerin the world by being victorious
in the Second World War,emerging as the world's
industrial and technologicalsuperpower, which by far, we
(04:20):
still are today.
It's not even a horse race.
By far we still are today.
It's not even a horse race.
I'll speak to China some otherday.
And so here we are and we aregenerally a triumphant people.
You know we're fighting amongstourselves now between the
apologists who want to look ateverything we've ever done wrong
and, you know, apologize for it, like reparations and nonsense
(04:41):
like that.
And we also have people who areMAGA, who are just the opposite
.
But overall Americans, in theend, when push comes to shove,
we always think it's going towork out.
We're kind of surprised if itdoesn't.
Regardless of what side of anissue we're on.
We always think that in the endour side will be triumphant
because we're on the side ofright and we are Americans and
(05:04):
things always turn out right forAmericans sooner or later.
That's the American way.
That is not the Russian way.
Russians are genuinelysurprised if anything ever works
.
That's not a joke.
So I actually had a Russianexplain this to me Back at the
time the Soviet Union fell.
I volunteered for Jewish FamilyServices in Tucson, arizona, and
(05:30):
I was the only really Russianspeaker they had.
So I would go to the airport inthe middle of the night
generally Again, I don't knowwhy it always came in at the
middle of the night, but italways did and I would meet the
plane with the mostly RussianJewish refugees coming in from
the former Soviet Union and theyspoke absolutely no English and
I would meet them and I wouldtake them.
We had rented an entireapartment complex and I would
take them to their apartment andget them settled in and the
(05:51):
next day I would come and Iwould take them to the local
fries which is Kroger in Arizona.
So, wherever you live, and Iwould stock up their
refrigerator, I would get themtheir social security cards.
I would get them, you know, setthem up with their green cards
and all that kind of good stuffthat were all arranged, and I
did all yada, yada, yada, yada,yada.
I don't want to bore you withall of it, but I was their
(06:13):
liaison and I made a lot of goodfriends as a result of that and
it was one of those Russiansthat really enlightened me and
said to me you know, the thingabout Americans that you don't
understand is that you guys aregenuinely surprised when things
don't turn out the way you thinkor hope they will, and we
Russians are genuinely surprisedif they do.
And if you look at theirhistory, it's one of suffering.
(06:35):
If you read Russian literature,it's the literature of
suffering Russian literature.
Right now I'm rereading AnnaKarenina, which I think is the
greatest book ever written.
You can decide for yourself.
I'm not going to go into aliterary discussion, but I
haven't read it in many, manyyears.
So I'm rereading it and just soyou don't think I'm a braggart,
I'm reading it in English.
(06:55):
I have tried to read it inRussian.
It's way past me.
That's what I can say.
But the thing about AnnaKarenina is that it's very dark.
Things don't go well ever inRussian literature there's no
happy endings.
It's just not the way it works.
No one rides off into thesunset Russia.
You know why don't?
For example, I don't know ifyou've ever noticed this, but a
(07:16):
lot of Russians seem to have.
They seem to be European incolor, but they have Asiatic
features.
That's because for centuriesthe people they called the
Tatars, that we call the Mongols, took over Russia and raped and
when I say raped, raped on ascale of millions their women,
before they were finally drivenout.
(07:37):
And they were driven out to bereplaced by the first Tsar, who
was Ivan the Terrible, who, in afit of rage, killed his only
heir.
I mean, this is how Russian and, by the way, in Russia he's not
Ivan the Terrible, he's Ivanthe Great, which tells you
exactly.
There are plenty of Russiansthat know everything that Stalin
(07:58):
did and forgive it, becausesometimes you have to break some
eggs to make an omelet, astrite as that sounds to an
American ear.
What I'm trying to explain toyou is the Russians, really,
when they do win, it's onlythrough endurance.
They outlasted Napoleon, theyoutlasted Hitler, but boy did
they take a horrible beating InWorld War II.
We lost roughly a half amillion men give or take.
(08:21):
In World War II.
They lost 20 million people andtheir population was half of
ours to begin with.
As big as Russia is, a lot ofit is virtually uninhabitable.
It's mostly concentrated in theEuropean area.
And that brings us to Putin.
So Putin is a product of hisculture.
He's very, very Russian, and tounderstand that is to also know
(08:46):
that he's what's called aSlavophile.
Now, a Slavophile is a personwho views Russia not just as a
place, but as a holy place.
Don't make fun of the spiritualpeople.
This is where this man's comingfrom.
He believes in Holy MotherRussia.
He is Orthodox.
He's not a practicing Orthodox,but he's Orthodox.
(09:06):
Now, orthodoxy for those of youwho don't understand it is the
break off.
The Catholic Church split, andthe Eastern Orthodox version of
it was in Byzantium, which istoday Istanbul, and the Catholic
Church, as we know it washeadquartered and is
headquartered in Rome, althoughbriefly, not briefly.
(09:27):
For a long time it was inFrance, but then it went back to
anyway.
It's a long history.
I'm not going down that holeeither, but anyway, the way I
like to explain the EasternOrthodox, particularly the
Russian Orthodox Church, versusCatholicism is to basically say
it's Catholicism without thesense of humor which you know.
You guys get the joke right.
(09:49):
I don't have to explain it.
So it is not a happy religion.
It's not a happy people.
They are dark Russians.
Don't walk down the streetsmiling like Americans.
So let's start with that.
When Vladimir Putin, when aRussian they're not the only
culture you know we Americanswere open.
Donald Trump thinks that helikes, you know he likes
Vladimir Putin.
(10:09):
He thinks he understands him.
He's not the first Americanpresident to fall for that joke.
You know George Bush said helooked into Putin's eyes and saw
his soul and blah, blah, blah.
And Bill Clinton, thought, saidthat Vladimir Putin was a man
you could count on to keep hispromises.
I mean, americans fall for thisbecause we are preternaturally
(10:31):
cheerful.
Okay, again, we expect a goodoutcome.
We want everyone to be ourfriends.
It's the same reason why DonaldTrump talks about.
You know, kim is his friend inNorth Korea and she and I are
friends.
That's just American, you know.
It's just.
Maybe every American doesn'tvoice it quite as loud as Donald
(10:51):
Trump, but that's very Americanto think you're making a human
connection on a human level withpeople that are not really
looking at you from the samecultural perspective.
Now I want you to look at a mapof the United States this is the
final thing to understand thedifference between Russia and
America and how Putin looks atthe world, and this will explain
(11:11):
what he's trying to do inUkraine, and then I'll explain
the risks and then I'll explainwhat has to be done to end this
war Really, truly Okay.
So, number one look at a map ofthe United States.
We've got the two major oceansof the world the Atlantic and
Pacific on both sides, whichmakes invasion impossible.
We'd see it coming fromthousands of miles away.
And we have friendly neighborsto our north and south and we're
(11:34):
never going to fight a war witheither Canada or Mexico.
We invaded Mexico a few times.
They didn't try to pick a fightwith us, god knows, and that's
the history of that.
But today that's just not goingto.
Mexico is in no position topick a fight with the United
States and they're not planningto.
I've spent a lot of time inMexico.
They're not trying to.
They're a little resentful thatwe have, but that's another
story for another day.
(11:56):
But basically we're surroundedby nothing but safety.
Pearl Harbor was hit in WorldWar II, but we responded by
beating the living shit out ofthe Japanese and nuking them
twice.
So, basically, america is anincredibly safe country and we
have the luckiest geography wepossibly could.
But add to that, we have theMississippi River and all of its
tributaries running down thedead center of the country,
(12:18):
which, oh, by the way, is thelargest flat-growing area in the
world.
So we have this phenomenalwater source running down the
middle that's almost entirelynavigable north to south, unlike
there are other long rivers inthe world, like the Don River in
Russia, okay, and the Volga,and they're long, but they're
not entirely navigable and theydon't have tributaries that are
(12:39):
navigable.
But Mississippi has the Ohio,the Missouri, the Tennessee I
don't know the whole list, butthey're all navigable.
So that opens up trade down thecenter of the country, which
set us up to win to begin with.
And then we had a fairlyvisionary early government when
it used to know what it was inbusiness to do, and they built
(13:01):
things like the Erie Canal whichconnected the Great Lakes to
the East Coast, and the GreatLakes that's another thing we
have for enormous amounts ofcommerce and shipping out into
the Atlantic ultimately.
But we can take it now becauseof the Erie Canal down through
New York, or at least in thosedays.
I'm not sure what the currentstatus is.
Shipping has evolved a lot, soI don't pretend to be an expert,
(13:23):
but the point is our geographyis unbelievably lucky.
We have great weather, verymoderate, even our coldest
states unbelievably lucky.
We have great weather, verymoderate, even our coldest
states.
You know, little side note thereason that, for example, the
south of France is warm whenit's on the same latitude as
Newfoundland, basically, orMaine, is because of the Gulf
Stream.
The Gulf Stream crosses theAtlantic and brings warm water
(13:44):
up and touches Europe and that'swhy Europe is warmer than it
would be colder than thenorthern parts of Canada
otherwise.
So that's just a little sidenote and a little climate fact
for you today.
It has nothing to do with whatI'm talking about Now.
Let's go and take a look at amap of Russia.
Russia is surrounded bycountries that have invaded it
(14:04):
over and over and over again.
It's been invaded by the Tatars, or the Mongols as we would
call them.
As I told you, it's beeninvaded by the Europeans,
various ones, the Swedes.
I know that sounds funny intoday's parlance, but there was
a time when Sweden was a greatempire and just kicked the shit
out of Russia.
It's been invaded by theGermans.
(14:26):
It's been invaded by the French.
It's been invaded by the French.
It's been invaded by the Poles.
The Poles, historically, werealso a great power that for
quite a time ran roughshod onthe Russians and the Russians
outlasted them all.
But that's how they do it.
They don't do it throughbrilliance or technology or the
better equipment or industrialoutput.
(14:46):
They just basically throwpeople at it.
That's how they did it in WorldWar II.
They just threw people at it.
That's the story of Stalingrad,you know.
It was basically charged andwhen you fall in or killed, you
pick up the rifle.
Since they didn't have enoughrifles this is absolutely true
they'd pick up the rifles andwere ordered to, of the dead
people, pick it up and run untilthey were shot dead, who would
then be followed by other guyswho would pick it up and run
until they were shot dead.
(15:07):
And that gives you some idea ofnot only how tough Russians are
, but of the psychology ofRussians.
And this is what feeds VladimirPutin, who was born into the
world subsequent to World War II.
He grew up under Stalin.
He did his career as a KGBagent.
This is a real Russian.
A real Russian, not a communist.
(15:30):
A Russian Understand that.
Now let's look at the map ofRussia again.
Not only is it concentrated, aspopulation, in just one area,
and not only does it havenothing like the Mississippi
River, and not only does it haveonly one navigable warm water
port well, two, if you includeVladivostok.
But given the size of thecountry, it's unbelievably
(15:50):
difficult to transport anythingfrom east to west in Russia.
It takes days and days and it'shorrible.
It's just not practical.
All those geographicdisabilities, and on top of all
of that, they are the largestcountry in the world.
They're very, very.
They have a mystical feelingabout Mother Russia because of
(16:11):
the Russian Orthodox Church andthe tradition that seeps within
their culture.
And the only way to defend acountry that size, who's been
invaded only over and over andover again, is to push out its
borders, which is why Ukrainewas historically, for the last
five centuries or so, a part ofRussia.
Russia took Ukraine and made itits own because it was a buffer
(16:34):
against invasion from the Turksand from the West.
Okay, look at a map.
They are as afraid of us as weare of them.
Now that's why Putin's goal isnot just to keep the parts of
Ukraine that he has.
Like Trump wants to believe,his goal is to take all of
Ukraine.
He thought it would fall easy.
(16:54):
It was a horriblemiscalculation, but regardless,
that's the goal.
Take the country.
Okay, he will call.
Trump's mistake here is thatyou have to go with Putin, and
here's the solution.
It has to be carrot and stickand boy.
This is going to.
You know, we've got ourselves.
Let me back up just for a momentand say under no circumstances,
(17:18):
if I had been President Bidenat the time and not senile,
would I have ever, ever gottenus involved in this.
I would have let Russia takeUkraine Because I would have
understood and not because it'sa good thing and not because I
support that, but I understandwhy he did it and there's no
threat to the other NATOcountries, even though we
instigated the attack in manyways by causing Russian paranoia
(17:40):
.
After centuries and centuriesand centuries of being invaded
from the West, we pushed theenemy NATO to their border when
we promised we wouldn't in 1992.
We did it anyway, and theRussians are.
Look at it from their point ofview, look at the map, look at
their country and this is whyPutin invaded Ukraine.
Now why did he pick the momenthe did?
(18:02):
Because he knew we had a senilepresident.
He had met Biden.
He knew Biden was out of it andhe made a calculated risk that
the Ukrainians would lay downand it was a stupid risk.
And he made a calculated riskthat the Ukrainians would lay
down and it was a stupid risk.
He really stepped into a pileof poop.
He's not infallible.
Now he has to get out of it.
But as a Russian he can't getout of it by making a deal
because he'll be overthrown.
Russians all think like Putin.
(18:22):
If you think that if we got ridof Putin we'd have a different
guy, we would just have anotherPutin.
Putin is essentially Russian.
He we would just have anotherPutin.
Putin is essentially Russian.
He's not American.
He doesn't naturally smile ateverybody.
He doesn't walk into everyconversation thinking he's going
to make a friend out of you.
He is deeply suspicious becausehe's Russian.
Russians are wonderful peopleonce they get to know you.
(18:43):
It's the get-to-know-you partthat's different.
They're not Americans.
They're not chubby.
They don't smile at each otheron the street.
If you smile at a Russianwalking down the streets of
Moscow, they could probably tellright away you're an American,
but otherwise they think you'reout of your goddamn mind.
Okay, it's as simple as that,and you can reduce it to
humanity and understand Putin.
(19:04):
So what needs to be done?
We have two choices.
We can either abandon Ukraine,which I can completely
understand, all of theconsequences of that, which
would be very, very bad in many,many ways Another discussion
for another day or we're goingto have to, now that we've
gotten sucked into this.
This is how World War I started.
(19:25):
You start with nothing and itturns out we are in real danger
here of crossing a threshold.
So we have to dance a verydelicate dance of carrot and
stick.
So, as I record this, ukrainehad carried out a massive drone
attack inside of Russia thatthey had been planning for a
very long time.
Read about it.
It's very clever how they didit.
It reminds me of the Israeliattack with the pagers.
(19:46):
It's been in the planning for,I think, about a year and a half
, but anyway it was effective.
We're going to have to take thegloves off Ukraine, short of
nuclear weapons, and let them goafter Russia in Russia, because
without the stick, and thenhold out the carrot of before
you just retaliate and go tostrategic nuclear weapons in the
(20:06):
battlefield, which is the risk,and Russia could do,
calculating that the West wouldnever use intercontinental
missiles to retaliate and defendUkraine from battlefield
nuclear weapons, which are whatwe used to call neutron weapons
smaller, less fallout, so on andso forth.
Not that there's ever, but thisis the world that Joe Biden has
(20:26):
gotten us into through hissenility.
This is why covering up hismental and being complicit in
the gaslighting of America isthe worst scandal in American
history and maybe world historyby far.
And Biden is a villain becausewhile he was senile, he knew
what was going on.
He had good days and on thosegood days he was fully complicit
in his own lies.
(20:47):
So I blame this all on Bidenand everyone around him that
we're in this mess, but we're init and we only have two choices
.
One is surrender and lay down,which will destroy.
The world operates on the dollar, and the dollar is the dollar,
because America maintains thepeace of the world in terms of
at least trade.
While we shouldn't beinterventionist anymore and
(21:10):
President Trump is absolutelyright about that we should also.
We can't be isolationist.
You know we have if we don'tkeep the seas open for shipping.
Someone else will get involved,if history has taught us, and
we won't like what it is so andthat's why the dollar gets, and
that's why we get away with ourdebt.
Because if the dollar weren'tthe world's currency, you know
why we get away with our debt.
Because if the dollar weren'tthe world's currency, you know
(21:31):
trading currency we would beright down the tubes.
It's all interconnected.
That's why we can't just say tomake simple solutions, let's
just get out of there.
Yeah, if we just get out ofthere, the party's over.
So we'll have a depression.
And even if we don't have aworld war, we'll have a
depression because the dollarwill lose its special status as
countries stop believing usbecause we don't stand behind
(21:52):
our friends.
And the next thing, you knowit'll be a shit show.
So that's entirely predictable.
Let's not do that.
On the other hand, the course isdangerous.
We're going to have to give,together with our European
partners, the Ukrainians whatthey need to inflict a lot of
damage inside of Russia and tryto exert control enough over the
(22:14):
Ukrainians that they don'tliterally try to assassinate
Putin in the Kremlin, and youknow which would kick off.
God only knows what?
But they might do it because,again, they're not Russians, but
they're Slavs and they'veendured enormous suffering.
I mean, read what Stalin did tothe Ukrainians.
It'll make your blood run cold.
(22:35):
As a Jew, I identify with itonly because it was very
Holocaust-y.
Okay, if you, you know, whenthey talk about genocide today,
that is a word that gets thrownaround a lot, that people don't.
You know, the killing of whitefarmers in South Africa is
horrible, and I'd let them intothe country for sure, but that's
not a genocide.
Okay, what's going on in Gazais what happens in a war, but
(22:57):
it's not genocide.
Okay, genocide is what Stalincarried out in the Ukraine.
Check it out.
Genocide is what Hitler carriedout against the Jews and the
gypsies, to a lesser extent,although plenty, I'm not trying
to say just less of them.
I mean, believe me, theysuffered too.
So, listen, we have to becareful throwing around these
(23:18):
words.
So the bottom line here is we'regoing to have to basically
inflict enough damage that Putinmakes a tactical decision which
is the only way you're going toget Russia to make a deal in
which he decides that his bestchance to hold power is to make
the deal, because right now he'sgoing to call our bluff because
all we're dangling is thecarrot.
(23:39):
Oh, and that's what I was goingto say.
The carrot has to be a bigcarrot.
All sanctions off.
Americans allowed free trade,no tariffs, no, nothing.
Russia is right back inbusiness.
We have to basically enticethem with money that's our money
, or destruction has got to bethe only choices.
They don't respect reason, youknow.
The idea is that.
You know Trump keeps sayingthere's a lot of killing going
(24:00):
on.
I believe he's 100% sincere.
I don't think he likes killing.
He's been, if you look atTrump's record, for decades.
He's been anti-war from thevery start.
He was anti-Gulf War way beforeit was fashionable and I'm
fashionable and I'm talking GulfWar I, not just II.
So you know Trump just doesn'tlike the whole concept.
That's why he's trying to makea deal with Iran, for example,
(24:20):
as opposed to just lettingIsrael bomb him into the Stone
Age, because he would prefer notkilling all the people working
inside of those plants.
That's all the evidence.
You need to understand that,because Israel and the United
States certainly have thecapability to flatten Iran.
So the bottom line here is folks, we are in a terrible position
as a result of, I believe, beingweak, and that weakness coming
(24:48):
as the result of a president whowas non-compassmentist much of
the time and therefore acommittee was acting as
president, and committees neverdo the right thing, they always
do the go along, get along thing.
So you get mediocre decisions.
And here we are and we're stuck.
But the way to deal with Putinis not to appeal to his humanity
, it's to appeal to his fear.
That's the only thing Russianswill understand and that's where
(25:11):
I'm going to leave thisdiscussion and I'm publishing it
two podcasts in one day,because this just occurred to me
and I just felt like doing it.
And it's Monday afternoon and Icould hold off publishing this
till Wednesday, but I think, ah,what the hell, I'll throw it
out there, because between nowand Wednesday, god only knows
what will happen.
So I'll leave it there.
You have a beautiful rest ofyour day and until the next time
.
This is Herbie saying.
(25:32):
God bless you.
Oh, by the way, don't forget topick up I never promote myself
pick up a copy of a radicalreset, the manifesto of
anti-politism which will savethe republic, and you can pick
up your copy at Amazon, eitherin Kindle paperback or hardcover
.
A radical reset by me, herbie K, and don't forget to share the
podcast.
You know that, but I suppose Ishould say it have a beautiful
(25:54):
day and I'll talk to you nexttime.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.