July 16, 2025 • 27 mins
Cutting through the noise of political rhetoric, this episode takes you deep into the realities of agricultural labor markets and immigration policy in America. Drawing from personal experiences working in California's tomato fields, I expose the fundamental misunderstandings that plague our national conversation about immigrant workers.
The widespread belief that undocumented laborers suppress wages for American workers ignores basic economic realities. Having personally experienced the brutal conditions of agricultural fieldwork—the scorching heat, physical demands, encounters with insects and wildlife—I explain why there's simply no wage high enough to attract domestic workers to these positions when other opportunities exist. This isn't about exploitation; it's about who's willing to do essential work that powers our food system.
Agricultural workers, typically paid by volume rather than hourly, often earn substantial incomes that support extended families when brought back to communities where money stretches further. These economic arrangements benefit both parties in a free market exchange. The armed enforcement approach currently targeting these workers, most of whom have committed no crime beyond crossing the border, represents a moral failure and practical absurdity.
A sensible solution exists in properly designed guest worker programs that would allow seasonal laborers to cross legally, work when needed, and return home to the communities they cherish. Such programs acknowledge the reciprocal benefits of these arrangements while eliminating the dangerous underground economy of human smuggling.
Whether you lean left or right politically, this episode challenges you to examine immigration through the lens of economic reality rather than political talking points. Share this with friends who care about honest conversation on this divisive issue, and check out my book "A Radical Reset" for more policy solutions rooted in practical experience rather than ideology.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, it's a happy Wednesday.
How is everybody?
This is Herbie, your host hereat A Radical Reset.
Before we get into the subjectmatter of today's podcast, let
me share with you that you canpick up a copy of A Radical
Reset, the manifesto ofantipolitism, antipolitism being
the solution and I hate to usethe word solution, because there
(00:23):
are no solutions, onlytrade-offs but a much better
system than what we're using tosave the republic as it's being
destroyed by democracy.
All democracy ends in mob rule.
We are on the fast trackheading there.
You know people misunderstand.
The reason that there's arepublic is because it's the
rights of the individual that weprotect, not the rights of the
(00:44):
mob.
Every country defends therights of the mob and when
people get in charge, when themob's in charge, it always ends
in tyranny.
So to avoid what is coming downthe track like a freight train,
please pick up a copy of aradical reset, the manifesto of
anti-politism.
You'll find the new system,which is a republic, by
(01:05):
merit-based lottery.
Don't try to read into into um,anything into that it's.
It's just as creative an ideaas that sounds like.
Go check it out on amazon,kindle paperback or hardcover.
If I do say so myself because Iwrote it obviously okay.
So, um, let's get into thesubject matter today.
(01:26):
Today's not going to be a reallylong podcast, but I want to
talk about this idiotic ideathat the reason that so let's
turn to immigration Today'ssubject matter is going to be
immigration.
I'm going to.
You know I already spoke to theEpstein thing.
I'm letting it go, so let'smove on to immigration.
One of the arguments, if notthe main argument, for you know,
(01:47):
trump is trying to round up 20or 30 million, however many
illegals are in our country nowand, as you know, I suggest a
very specific form of amnesty,and I've talked about it before
and you can listen to it in pastpodcasts.
You can look at the titles,you'll see where it is and it's
(02:08):
also in a radical reset.
So when you go into the book ARadical Reset, the majority of
the book really are me settingforth policy prescriptions that
are just common sense.
That would become the policy ofthe country if we had a
properly functioning legislatureand presidency and executive
branch, which we do not.
So, anyway, to make a long storyshort, let's talk about this
(02:31):
immigration.
So we don't know how manyillegal people there are in the
United States.
But it turns my stomach to seemasked gunmen working for ICE
rounding up people, most of whomthe only crime they've
committed is the crime ofcrossing the border illegally.
Now, I don't mean to downplay,but look, and I know that I'm a
(02:53):
convicted felon and I know I'mthe last one to say this, but
I'm going to say it anywayEverybody breaks the law,
whether you know it or not, andI'm not trying to diminish that
crossing the border is a crime,but I'm saying that you probably
, listening to me, havecommitted a crime of.
You know it's a crime without avictim, unless you think that
(03:14):
the taxpayers are a victim.
But if the illegals come here,most states, you know.
You got to get rid of a lot ofthe hyperbole.
Illegal aliens are not eligiblefor welfare benefits Now, there
are a lot of states that giveit to them anyway, and you know
you got to get rid of a lot ofthe hyperbole.
Illegal aliens are not eligiblefor welfare benefits Now, there
are a lot of states that giveit to them anyway, and you know.
But that's a state problem.
If a state is stupid enough tofunnel them benefits and the
state's taxpayers want to put upwith it, like the taxpayers of
(03:37):
California.
Well then, power to them, butfederally at least, they're not
entitled to it.
Now, I know there's a lot ofmanipulation, and I know this by
doing what I'm saying acarefully planned amnesty, the
way I laid it out, and againit's in a past podcast.
I'm not going to go throughthat detail today.
It would work, however, and soand it does.
(03:58):
This is America.
We don't send out jackbootedtroops and I know I'm being
hyperbolic when I say that Ourguys don't wear jackboots but we
don't send out troops withmasks on and guns, like you see
pictures of the Mexican militaryrounding up cartels to go
collect these.
We're doing it, but I find itrepugnant.
I think that that is a validline of attack on the Trump
(04:20):
administration, while, at thesame time, democrats say stupid
things, and there's a lot ofstupidity going around and
there's a lot of economicilliteracy going around.
So we're going to do a littleeconomics course here today.
The argument that's made by theTrump people is that we have to
get these people out of thecountry because they drive down
(04:41):
wages that would otherwise go toAmericans for jobs that you
know people.
That, though, there are peoplethat say they're taking jobs
that Americans would never take.
That's not true.
If we paid Americans enough,they would take the job.
Therefore, if we drive thesepeople out of the country, it
will make wages go up and thenthere will be workers to go out
(05:01):
and pick strawberries orwhatever it might be.
You all get my drift on this andI'm talking agriculture, and
you know there are figures, lieand liars, figure.
There are a lot of statisticstossed around like 28% of
agricultural workers are illegal.
Yeah, but that's the 28% thatare in the fields.
You know agriculture is a lotmore than just picking the fruit
.
You know the fruit has to go onthe back of a truck.
(05:23):
The truck is driven to a bigwarehouse.
In the big warehouse there'smachinery, depending on what
kind of fruit we're dealing with.
I personally firsthand dealtwith tomatoes, which is a fruit,
my friends, whether you realizeit or not, and very soft and is
handpicked.
To make a long story short,they come to the warehouse, they
dump that into a big vat toclean it, to get all the schmutz
(05:45):
off of it, and then it goes upon a.
They go up in sorting lines andthey're sorted and all the ugly
ones are taken out, becauseAmericans won't buy ugly ones
and then they're boxed andpackaged and then they're stored
and then they're shipped andthen they're driven by a truck
and usually in a reefer orrefrigerated truck, to where
they're going, somewhere in theUnited States.
And then they get there andthen they're unloaded and then
(06:09):
they're brought into the grocerystore and then the groceries
and all of those areagricultural workers.
This is how figures lie andliars figure Okay, and there's
lots of Americans doing thosejobs at very high pay.
The only jobs we're talkingabout let's get real are the
ones that are out there in thefields picking and unique among
spokesmen.
I have been out in those fieldspicking Way back, way back when
I was in high school in Fresno,california, working for Nat
(06:32):
Fennison.
I'm being very specific so Ican be verified.
I worked both in the warehouseand just to see what it was like
, I went out into the fields andpick.
I was not a full-time picker.
A couple of days of that wasenough to last me a lifetime.
So I was happy to be what wascalled a box boy.
So when the tomatoes would comein from the fields at Nat
Finnan Center I don't know ifthey're still in business, but
(06:53):
the San Joaquin Valley of theUnited States and California is
the largest and most productivegrowing area in the world, and,
whether you realize it or not, Iknow California is an amazing
state.
If it wasn't so, the process Ijust described to you is the
process that goes on a tomatopacking house and there's a
conveyor belt with holes in it.
The holes are the size of thetomatoes in various sizes, and
(07:16):
they're brought down into laneswhere little ladies again
illegal immigrants hand-packthem into boxes and they're not
paid by the hour, they're paidby the piece.
Each box is considered a piece.
So as they complete each box, Iin those days as the box boy
and they probably have this moreautomated now but I had a hole
puncher on my belt and I wouldtake the box off of their rack.
(07:38):
They had this like tilted table, imagine like an artist table,
but where someone loads tomatoesinto boxes.
I would take the full box, putit on the conveyor belt down to
where it would go, to the roomto be gassed.
They gas tomatoes with ethylenegas, which is the natural gas
given off by tomatoes, to stopthe ripening process until they
get to where they're going.
Then they gas them again, whichstarts the ripening process,
(07:59):
which is why everyone's notgetting rotten tomatoes, but
anyway.
So I was the kid putting that,but and then I put up another
empty box, as the lady wasworking on the current box and I
would punch her whole cards soshe would get credit for the
piece and they made a lot ofmoney.
They made a lot more than theminimum wage.
I just want to say that whenyou pay people by the piece and
(08:20):
the workers in the fieldsweren't paid by the hour either
they were paid by the truckloadof tomatoes that they picked and
there was a system they used toshare each truckload, but these
guys were making a lot morethan minimum wage.
That's the first misconceptionI'd like to point out In the
agricultural business.
The reason that they schlep uphere from Mexico isn't to be
poor.
They come up here because theycan work like dogs and they
(08:42):
don't worry about a nine-to-fivejob.
You've got to pick fruit whenit's ripe.
We were out in the fieldspicking tomatoes and also bell
peppers at night, under lights,because when they're ripe,
they're ripe, they've got to bepicked.
There's no telling the fruit,wait, wait, we'll pick you
tomorrow when the sun comes up.
But they're paid by the pieceand they make a lot of money,
(09:02):
frankly, and then again I couldtell you the numbers they were
making.
But this was like back in the70s, so this is going to be
completely irrelevant by number,but the systems remain the same
.
And then they would go backdown to Mexico because in those
days we had a guest workerprogram and they would, you know
, they would hang out.
And when I say Mexico andanything south of the border, el
Salvador, wherever they werecoming from, the ones I knew
(09:22):
were all Mexican, but theydidn't want to be Americans,
they wanted to be Mexicans.
They just came up here to workand do a hard job that Americans
won't do.
So let's get to the secondpoint.
Now that I've shared the entirestory of how I know this and why
I have firsthand knowledge thatother people don't have, let me
also point out that the freemarkets don't work.
The way these idiots talk aboutit on TV and the way the Trump
(09:44):
people talk about it isespecially idiotic.
When they talk about well,these are really greedy tomato
growers or whatever.
They're accusing of underpayingthese foreign staff and the
only reason they want a limitedamnesty, like the administration
is concerning for agriculturalworkers is because they want to
keep these cheap wages up, andthis is just part of it.
(10:06):
And if they were paying thefair wage, then Americans would
go out and do these jobs andtherefore we've got to get these
people out of the country,which they're.
Let me explain what wouldreally happen.
No American's going to do thisjob for any amount of money as
Americans.
What is forgotten in thisargument is agriculture is not
the only business in America.
For an unskilled laborer Okay,so, assuming that it's unskilled
(10:29):
labor that does fruit pickingand, by the way, it is a skill.
Once you learn it, I mean thereis skill to it.
But I digress For that level.
For manual labor, there'splenty of other manual labor
jobs, like working in warehousesor loading trucks or driving
trucks, you know, depending onwhat level, or whether or not
you need a CDL, or constructionlabor or gardening and
(10:54):
landscaping.
There's all kinds of choices.
And it's a big country.
You don't have to work down inthe desert southwest, at 108
degrees picking.
Verkakta is a Yiddish word.
I was going to go right to theF word, then I was going to go
to fudge and somehow it ended upas verkakta.
Sorry, but anyway, you guys getthe drift.
(11:16):
The point is Americans won't dothat job unless that's the only
manual labor job there is.
I don't care what you're paying, it's a miserable, disgusting
job.
And I'm leaving out the insectsand snakes because, as you have
your hands down into the groundand, by the way, I'm a snake
lover, I love snakes.
(11:37):
I'm not afraid of snakes, butI'm the odd man out when you
stick your hand down into theground, the pick whether it's a
tomato or a strawberry, andthere's even a garter snake.
A garter snake for those of youwho are unfamiliar is not a
poisonous snake.
I think it's the most commonsnake in the United States.
I could be wrong, but I thinkit is.
It has stripes down the back.
(11:57):
It's a fast-moving thing.
It'll bite you if you grab it,but it's not a poisonous bite.
You'll bleed a little becausethey have teeny-weeny little
teeth for grabbing insects andstuff.
But they're not.
You know you're not going todie or anything like that.
But people freak out.
You know, and I understand,snakes don't have arms or legs.
It's weird, you know.
It's the same reason why,digressing slightly, I used to
(12:19):
own a chain of retail pet storesin Northern Colorado and
Loveland, fort Collins andGreeley, and anyway, people
would come in to buy hamstersfor their kids, those little
hamster thingies, you know thelittle rodents, and I would
always try to encourage them tobuy the kid a rat if they're
going to buy a small rodent pet,because rats are 100 times
nicer.
Hamsters are nasty little sonsof guns and they used to like
(12:41):
bite you they were really.
It took a long time to tame ahamster where rats and I'm not
talking about New York City ratscoming up out of the sewers,
I'm talking about lab rats cutelittle rats that are, you know,
like two-tone white, black,white and gray, brown and gray
and white pretty Little, cutelittle eyes and noses.
Here's the thing about ratsthey're super intelligent and
(13:02):
you can even litter box trainthem and they're very, very
sweet and I've never known oneto bite and they're great.
The problem is they have rattails and there's no hair on
them and there's something aboutfur.
It's like imagine what your dogor cat would look like with no
fur on them and that's why therat tail is so gross to people.
There's something about furthat we find cute.
That must be in our DNA andmakeup.
(13:24):
But anyway, I don't know why Iwent down this road.
I completely lost.
I have lost my mind.
Anyway, this road, I completelylost, I have lost my mind.
Anyway, back to the story athand.
If there were no other jobs tobe had, then that might be a
valid argument on a part of theTrump people saying that you
know if we only raise the wage.
But let's consider somethingelse the relatively small amount
of farm workers there arerelative to the 340 million
(13:46):
people in the United States thatwould have to pay more for
their tomatoes and theirstrawberries and their cherries
and their you know, you name thefruit.
Let's go down the list.
All right, everything wouldbecome instantly more expensive
and permanently more expensiveand continue to get more
expensive, because we would beto even think well, you couldn't
get any, there's just no amountof money to get anyone out
(14:07):
there.
And I went on and on about thesnakes.
Oh, that's how I got onto rats,the snakes.
But let's talk about theinsects Also, in my pet stores
back to that same sillydigression we sold tarantulas,
tarantulas sorry, tarantulas.
Tarantulas are actually quitelovely.
At first they grossed me outtoo, but as I learned to handle
them, they're okay.
(14:28):
But most people are not okaywith handling spiders.
It's a certain subset of people, so the because you know they
have eight legs, it's like gross.
So to most human beings.
I think there's a built in butand I don't want to what?
The snakes are in there, thespiders are in there or they're
all hunting insects living amongall the plants.
(14:48):
You can spray all theinsecticide you want.
Plenty of bugs still love it.
And anyway, those snakes andthose spiders are good because
they control the harmful insectpopulation in the fields and the
rodent populations.
But at the same time, is thereany amount of money?
Let me ask you this is thereany amount of money that would
get you to sit right now inArizona and they're picking out
(15:10):
Yuma right now as I'm talking toyou?
I don't know what they'repicking, but they're picking,
they're always picking somethingout there.
That's a huge growing area withthe Colorado River and anyway,
the daytime temperatures Todayis an exceptionally nice day.
In Phoenix it's only going tobe 98 degrees because our
monsoon rain is coming in today,but typically it would be 105
to 110.
(15:30):
And you would be out in justmiserable sweltering heat all
day long.
And we're not talking from nineto five, we're talking from
when it's dark in the morningtill it's dark at night, and
then on, you know, stooping, oron your hands and knees with the
insects and bugs picking fruit.
Now is there any amount ofmoney that anyone could pay you?
So cut the crap, okay.
(15:51):
That is a fallacious argumentmade by people who have never
worked really hard a day intheir lives.
You know, going to college andgetting a law degree is not the
same as getting into the fieldsand working with the people
firsthand.
I just I, I have to say I thinkI'm a richer person for having
done it and know this firsthand.
So but the point is it's awin-win.
The other thing is the growers.
(16:14):
They're not out to screwanybody.
They pay what the market ratedemands and when there's a
limited amount of workers, asthere are, they have to pay what
the workers want, and if theydon't, then the workers will go
grow it what the workers want,and if they don't, then the
workers will go grow.
It's not a monopoly.
You know, when I was working inthe tomato fields at Nat
Finenson, there was a lot morethan just Nat Finenson.
(16:35):
We were just a smallish produceoperation among many produce
operations in the largestgrowing area in the world, and
if we weren't paying the rightrate to our guys in the fields,
someone else would to get bettercrews, because it's not just
about picking, it's aboutgetting a good crew, since
they're paid by the piece.
There's a lot of ways to cheatthat, like throwing rocks and
(16:56):
vines in with your picking,believe me, and a good crew is
worth its weight in gold and itgets paid.
It is a fallacious argument tothink that the only reason that
illegals are doing jobs not onlybecause they'll do it at a fair
wage that they are free to walkaway from in a voluntary labor
market, but they're also willingto do the job, the hard job,
(17:20):
because they're coming frompoverty and so they're willing
to do something that the averageAmerican I don't care who they
are won't do.
Can you even imagine taking theaverage welfare recipient out
of an inner city, okay, andsaying you know what?
We'll pay you $30 an hour to gopick at 108 degrees.
They'll tell you to go have sexwith yourself.
(17:41):
They'd rather collect less onwelfare, which I don't even know
if they collect less than $30an hour when you figure in all
their benefits.
I read the other day that inMassachusetts the average
welfare, a single mother withtwo children can count on about
$100,000 a year in variousbenefits, which is, if that's
true, that just makes me vomit.
But anyway, you're not going toget her or her baby, daddy or
(18:04):
whatever you want to call him oranyone else to go out in those
fields for any amount of money.
And because that would requirehard work, and not just hard
work like sitting over your deskworking hard on ledgers or hard
in front of your computerworking on technology solutions.
No, no, no, we're talking hardlike snakes, spiders, rocks and
(18:24):
rats, you know, I mean, we'retalking real hard work.
We're talking actual, honest,to God.
So please let me sum up thispodcast and bring it to a
conclusion.
This is idiotic.
The Trump administration hastheir heads up their tuchuses
okay on this issue when theystart going on.
This is about greedy owners whowant cheap labor, and this is
(18:45):
the secret that nobody's talkingabout.
That's no secret.
This is a free market and Trumpis as bad as that guy Mandani
in New York when he startswanting to manipulate labor
markets or tell lies about them.
Okay, this is socialistnonsense.
Okay, in a free labor market,which it most certainly is.
And if we handled this likenormal people and allowed the
(19:07):
immigration program that Isuggested, which is basically a
return to a guest worker program, essentially okay.
It would then the people noone's holding a gun to the heads
If foreign nationals from southof the border Mexicans, el
Salvadorans, nicaraguans,whoever comes up to pick, south
of the border, mexicans, elSalvadorans, nicaraguans,
whoever comes up to pick andthey pick and then they go home
(19:29):
because they have a guest workeryou know, I call it an orange
card where they can go back andforth across the border and they
can do it without worryingabout having to hire a coyote to
bring them across for $3,000 to$5,000 a pass to avoid, you
know, interdiction, becausethey're law-abiding people and
the only crime they broke was.
The only law they broke wascrossing the border.
(19:50):
So now we make it so they can,they'll go home.
They don't want to be Americans, they're not here to vote in
our elections, they're here towork and make some money and go
home, because money goes a lotfarther back home, within the
culture that they love.
Let's bring us to the last point.
Back in the day and this is theearly 1970s families would come
(20:16):
up and it was whole families.
But don't think like anAmerican and start getting all
uptight about child labor.
You see these things of like inthe Congo children are working
and they're mining I don't knowwhat it is some mineral.
It's really horrible, and I'mthe first to say it.
And so the American reaction isstop them from doing that,
except that they would juststarve to death.
You're not talking to Americawith a welfare state, you're
(20:37):
talking about the kids work orthey die.
So the whole families come uphere from down in these places
where the social safety net isnot exactly American, and they
all work together and they maketens of thousands of dollars
from down in these places wherethe social safety net is not
exactly American, and they allwork together and they make tens
of thousands of dollars whichthey save.
And then they cross back downand they go down.
Let me tell you, you make$20,000.
And I don't know what they'remaking today, but back in those
(20:58):
days they could go home with$20,000 in a growing season,
real easy, and $20,000 bytoday's standards would be
$100,000.
And they go down and they go totheir villages down south in
Mexico and we're talkingprimitive villages, but villages
that they understand theirculture, their life, their home,
their family.
And, by the way, down south,because they're deeply religious
(21:20):
people and deeply Catholicpeople, they tend to be very
family oriented.
So grandma, grandpa, uncles,aunts, kids, grandkids, great
grandkids everyone gets together.
The money is part of the familymoney and they live on it and
they live well.
They're wealthy by localstandards.
Then the next year they pileinto the truck, they head up to
the border.
This is how it would work andwe'd all get cheaper tomatoes
(21:42):
because of it.
It's a win-win and nobody isdoing this just to get cheap
labor because of the free labormarket.
Do you understand that it's afree labor market?
Just because somebody speaksSpanish only doesn't make them
retarded.
They're not going to work ifthey aren't being fairly paid.
There are other places to go,there are other growers, and if
none of the growers will paythem right, they'll just go home
because there are jobs inMexico that they could do.
(22:03):
If they're going to be forcedto do it at slave labor rates,
where the minimum wage in Mexicothat used to be I don't know
what it is now.
It used to be like $7.50 a day.
Okay so, and listen, democratson the left, get rid of the idea
of minimum wage.
It shuts out manual labor andpeople who are learning to do
things at the entry level, andthat's another discussion for
another day.
(22:23):
And that's another discussionfor another day.
But, republicans, you have noget dismount your high horse for
making this idiotic economicargument that this is all being
done, that the bribe Americans,higher wages, baloney, baloney
or shall I say, bullshit.
It's just not true.
Ok, I have made my argument fortoday.
(22:45):
I hope you are all bettereducated as a result and can
spread this knowledge among yourfriends, because, let me tell
you, most people, I don't think,get it.
This is why I think Economics101 should be required teaching
in every high school in America.
So politicians couldn't makethese idiotic arguments and
people sit there and shake theirheads like they agree.
It's just not true.
(23:06):
Idiotic arguments and peoplesit there and shake their heads
like they agree.
It's just not true.
It's not true from theslightest.
The minute you begin tocritically think about it, you
can see all the ways this cannotpossibly be true.
And yet our mainstream media inparticular, and a lot of our
non-traditional media none ofthem are economists and none of
them took any economics.
So they mouth this crap,depending on what side they come
from, right or left.
And this particular line I'llkeep using bullshit, since I
(23:34):
already use it this particularline of bullshit is coming from
the right.
You know this greedy employer.
Shut out the American worker.
All they want is cheap wages.
That's why they want limitedamnesty Bullshit.
Okay, I have made my point.
Thank you for listening to metoday.
Don't forget to pick up yourcopy of Eradical Reset.
You can pick it up on Amazon InKindle, paperback or hardcover.
Don't forget to share thispodcast with your friends.
(23:56):
Thank you very, very much.
My name is Herbie K, in caseyou didn't remember that From
the beginning.
What a weird thing to add atthe end I do this all
spontaneously.
It's all what comes into myhead.
Anyway, have a beautiful day.
I'll talk to you again onFriday.
God bless you, god bless yourfamily and God bless America.
Well, it's a happy Wednesday.
How is everybody?
This is Herbie, your host hereat A Radical Reset.
Before we get into the subjectmatter of today's podcast, let
me share with you that you canpick up a copy of A Radical
Reset, the manifesto ofantipolitism, antipolitism being
the solution and I hate to usethe word solution, because there
(00:23):
are no solutions, onlytrade-offs but a much better
system than what we're using tosave the republic as it's being
destroyed by democracy.
All democracy ends in mob rule.
We are on the fast trackheading there.
You know people misunderstand.
The reason that there's arepublic is because it's the
rights of the individual that weprotect, not the rights of the
(00:44):
mob.
Every country defends therights of the mob and when
people get in charge, when themob's in charge, it always ends
in tyranny.
So to avoid what is coming downthe track like a freight train,
please pick up a copy of aradical reset, the manifesto of
anti-politism.
You'll find the new system,which is a republic, by
(01:05):
merit-based lottery.
Don't try to read into into um,anything into that it's.
It's just as creative an ideaas that sounds like.
Go check it out on amazon,kindle paperback or hardcover.
If I do say so myself because Iwrote it obviously okay.
So, um, let's get into thesubject matter today.
(01:26):
Today's not going to be a reallylong podcast, but I want to
talk about this idiotic ideathat the reason that so let's
turn to immigration Today'ssubject matter is going to be
immigration.
I'm going to.
You know I already spoke to theEpstein thing.
I'm letting it go, so let'smove on to immigration.
One of the arguments, if notthe main argument, for you know,
(01:47):
trump is trying to round up 20or 30 million, however many
illegals are in our country nowand, as you know, I suggest a
very specific form of amnesty,and I've talked about it before
and you can listen to it in pastpodcasts.
You can look at the titles,you'll see where it is and it's
(02:08):
also in a radical reset.
So when you go into the book ARadical Reset, the majority of
the book really are me settingforth policy prescriptions that
are just common sense.
That would become the policy ofthe country if we had a
properly functioning legislatureand presidency and executive
branch, which we do not.
So, anyway, to make a long storyshort, let's talk about this
(02:31):
immigration.
So we don't know how manyillegal people there are in the
United States.
But it turns my stomach to seemasked gunmen working for ICE
rounding up people, most of whomthe only crime they've
committed is the crime ofcrossing the border illegally.
Now, I don't mean to downplay,but look, and I know that I'm a
(02:53):
convicted felon and I know I'mthe last one to say this, but
I'm going to say it anywayEverybody breaks the law,
whether you know it or not, andI'm not trying to diminish that
crossing the border is a crime,but I'm saying that you probably
, listening to me, havecommitted a crime of.
You know it's a crime without avictim, unless you think that
(03:14):
the taxpayers are a victim.
But if the illegals come here,most states, you know.
You got to get rid of a lot ofthe hyperbole.
Illegal aliens are not eligiblefor welfare benefits Now, there
are a lot of states that giveit to them anyway, and you know
you got to get rid of a lot ofthe hyperbole.
Illegal aliens are not eligiblefor welfare benefits Now, there
are a lot of states that giveit to them anyway, and you know.
But that's a state problem.
If a state is stupid enough tofunnel them benefits and the
state's taxpayers want to put upwith it, like the taxpayers of
(03:37):
California.
Well then, power to them, butfederally at least, they're not
entitled to it.
Now, I know there's a lot ofmanipulation, and I know this by
doing what I'm saying acarefully planned amnesty, the
way I laid it out, and againit's in a past podcast.
I'm not going to go throughthat detail today.
It would work, however, and soand it does.
(03:58):
This is America.
We don't send out jackbootedtroops and I know I'm being
hyperbolic when I say that Ourguys don't wear jackboots but we
don't send out troops withmasks on and guns, like you see
pictures of the Mexican militaryrounding up cartels to go
collect these.
We're doing it, but I find itrepugnant.
I think that that is a validline of attack on the Trump
(04:20):
administration, while, at thesame time, democrats say stupid
things, and there's a lot ofstupidity going around and
there's a lot of economicilliteracy going around.
So we're going to do a littleeconomics course here today.
The argument that's made by theTrump people is that we have to
get these people out of thecountry because they drive down
(04:41):
wages that would otherwise go toAmericans for jobs that you
know people.
That, though, there are peoplethat say they're taking jobs
that Americans would never take.
That's not true.
If we paid Americans enough,they would take the job.
Therefore, if we drive thesepeople out of the country, it
will make wages go up and thenthere will be workers to go out
(05:01):
and pick strawberries orwhatever it might be.
You all get my drift on this andI'm talking agriculture, and
you know there are figures, lieand liars, figure.
There are a lot of statisticstossed around like 28% of
agricultural workers are illegal.
Yeah, but that's the 28% thatare in the fields.
You know agriculture is a lotmore than just picking the fruit
.
You know the fruit has to go onthe back of a truck.
(05:23):
The truck is driven to a bigwarehouse.
In the big warehouse there'smachinery, depending on what
kind of fruit we're dealing with.
I personally firsthand dealtwith tomatoes, which is a fruit,
my friends, whether you realizeit or not, and very soft and is
handpicked.
To make a long story short,they come to the warehouse, they
dump that into a big vat toclean it, to get all the schmutz
(05:45):
off of it, and then it goes upon a.
They go up in sorting lines andthey're sorted and all the ugly
ones are taken out, becauseAmericans won't buy ugly ones
and then they're boxed andpackaged and then they're stored
and then they're shipped andthen they're driven by a truck
and usually in a reefer orrefrigerated truck, to where
they're going, somewhere in theUnited States.
And then they get there andthen they're unloaded and then
(06:09):
they're brought into the grocerystore and then the groceries
and all of those areagricultural workers.
This is how figures lie andliars figure Okay, and there's
lots of Americans doing thosejobs at very high pay.
The only jobs we're talkingabout let's get real are the
ones that are out there in thefields picking and unique among
spokesmen.
I have been out in those fieldspicking Way back, way back when
I was in high school in Fresno,california, working for Nat
(06:32):
Fennison.
I'm being very specific so Ican be verified.
I worked both in the warehouseand just to see what it was like
, I went out into the fields andpick.
I was not a full-time picker.
A couple of days of that wasenough to last me a lifetime.
So I was happy to be what wascalled a box boy.
So when the tomatoes would comein from the fields at Nat
Finnan Center I don't know ifthey're still in business, but
(06:53):
the San Joaquin Valley of theUnited States and California is
the largest and most productivegrowing area in the world, and,
whether you realize it or not, Iknow California is an amazing
state.
If it wasn't so, the process Ijust described to you is the
process that goes on a tomatopacking house and there's a
conveyor belt with holes in it.
The holes are the size of thetomatoes in various sizes, and
(07:16):
they're brought down into laneswhere little ladies again
illegal immigrants hand-packthem into boxes and they're not
paid by the hour, they're paidby the piece.
Each box is considered a piece.
So as they complete each box, Iin those days as the box boy
and they probably have this moreautomated now but I had a hole
puncher on my belt and I wouldtake the box off of their rack.
(07:38):
They had this like tilted table, imagine like an artist table,
but where someone loads tomatoesinto boxes.
I would take the full box, putit on the conveyor belt down to
where it would go, to the roomto be gassed.
They gas tomatoes with ethylenegas, which is the natural gas
given off by tomatoes, to stopthe ripening process until they
get to where they're going.
Then they gas them again, whichstarts the ripening process,
(07:59):
which is why everyone's notgetting rotten tomatoes, but
anyway.
So I was the kid putting that,but and then I put up another
empty box, as the lady wasworking on the current box and I
would punch her whole cards soshe would get credit for the
piece and they made a lot ofmoney.
They made a lot more than theminimum wage.
I just want to say that whenyou pay people by the piece and
(08:20):
the workers in the fieldsweren't paid by the hour either
they were paid by the truckloadof tomatoes that they picked and
there was a system they used toshare each truckload, but these
guys were making a lot morethan minimum wage.
That's the first misconceptionI'd like to point out In the
agricultural business.
The reason that they schlep uphere from Mexico isn't to be
poor.
They come up here because theycan work like dogs and they
(08:42):
don't worry about a nine-to-fivejob.
You've got to pick fruit whenit's ripe.
We were out in the fieldspicking tomatoes and also bell
peppers at night, under lights,because when they're ripe,
they're ripe, they've got to bepicked.
There's no telling the fruit,wait, wait, we'll pick you
tomorrow when the sun comes up.
But they're paid by the pieceand they make a lot of money,
(09:02):
frankly, and then again I couldtell you the numbers they were
making.
But this was like back in the70s, so this is going to be
completely irrelevant by number,but the systems remain the same
.
And then they would go backdown to Mexico because in those
days we had a guest workerprogram and they would, you know
, they would hang out.
And when I say Mexico andanything south of the border, el
Salvador, wherever they werecoming from, the ones I knew
(09:22):
were all Mexican, but theydidn't want to be Americans,
they wanted to be Mexicans.
They just came up here to workand do a hard job that Americans
won't do.
So let's get to the secondpoint.
Now that I've shared the entirestory of how I know this and why
I have firsthand knowledge thatother people don't have, let me
also point out that the freemarkets don't work.
The way these idiots talk aboutit on TV and the way the Trump
(09:44):
people talk about it isespecially idiotic.
When they talk about well,these are really greedy tomato
growers or whatever.
They're accusing of underpayingthese foreign staff and the
only reason they want a limitedamnesty, like the administration
is concerning for agriculturalworkers is because they want to
keep these cheap wages up, andthis is just part of it.
(10:06):
And if they were paying thefair wage, then Americans would
go out and do these jobs andtherefore we've got to get these
people out of the country,which they're.
Let me explain what wouldreally happen.
No American's going to do thisjob for any amount of money as
Americans.
What is forgotten in thisargument is agriculture is not
the only business in America.
For an unskilled laborer Okay,so, assuming that it's unskilled
(10:29):
labor that does fruit pickingand, by the way, it is a skill.
Once you learn it, I mean thereis skill to it.
But I digress For that level.
For manual labor, there'splenty of other manual labor
jobs, like working in warehousesor loading trucks or driving
trucks, you know, depending onwhat level, or whether or not
you need a CDL, or constructionlabor or gardening and
(10:54):
landscaping.
There's all kinds of choices.
And it's a big country.
You don't have to work down inthe desert southwest, at 108
degrees picking.
Verkakta is a Yiddish word.
I was going to go right to theF word, then I was going to go
to fudge and somehow it ended upas verkakta.
Sorry, but anyway, you guys getthe drift.
(11:16):
The point is Americans won't dothat job unless that's the only
manual labor job there is.
I don't care what you're paying, it's a miserable, disgusting
job.
And I'm leaving out the insectsand snakes because, as you have
your hands down into the groundand, by the way, I'm a snake
lover, I love snakes.
(11:37):
I'm not afraid of snakes, butI'm the odd man out when you
stick your hand down into theground, the pick whether it's a
tomato or a strawberry, andthere's even a garter snake.
A garter snake for those of youwho are unfamiliar is not a
poisonous snake.
I think it's the most commonsnake in the United States.
I could be wrong, but I thinkit is.
It has stripes down the back.
(11:57):
It's a fast-moving thing.
It'll bite you if you grab it,but it's not a poisonous bite.
You'll bleed a little becausethey have teeny-weeny little
teeth for grabbing insects andstuff.
But they're not.
You know you're not going todie or anything like that.
But people freak out.
You know, and I understand,snakes don't have arms or legs.
It's weird, you know.
It's the same reason why,digressing slightly, I used to
(12:19):
own a chain of retail pet storesin Northern Colorado and
Loveland, fort Collins andGreeley, and anyway, people
would come in to buy hamstersfor their kids, those little
hamster thingies, you know thelittle rodents, and I would
always try to encourage them tobuy the kid a rat if they're
going to buy a small rodent pet,because rats are 100 times
nicer.
Hamsters are nasty little sonsof guns and they used to like
(12:41):
bite you they were really.
It took a long time to tame ahamster where rats and I'm not
talking about New York City ratscoming up out of the sewers,
I'm talking about lab rats cutelittle rats that are, you know,
like two-tone white, black,white and gray, brown and gray
and white pretty Little, cutelittle eyes and noses.
Here's the thing about ratsthey're super intelligent and
(13:02):
you can even litter box trainthem and they're very, very
sweet and I've never known oneto bite and they're great.
The problem is they have rattails and there's no hair on
them and there's something aboutfur.
It's like imagine what your dogor cat would look like with no
fur on them and that's why therat tail is so gross to people.
There's something about furthat we find cute.
That must be in our DNA andmakeup.
(13:24):
But anyway, I don't know why Iwent down this road.
I completely lost.
I have lost my mind.
Anyway, this road, I completelylost, I have lost my mind.
Anyway, back to the story athand.
If there were no other jobs tobe had, then that might be a
valid argument on a part of theTrump people saying that you
know if we only raise the wage.
But let's consider somethingelse the relatively small amount
of farm workers there arerelative to the 340 million
(13:46):
people in the United States thatwould have to pay more for
their tomatoes and theirstrawberries and their cherries
and their you know, you name thefruit.
Let's go down the list.
All right, everything wouldbecome instantly more expensive
and permanently more expensiveand continue to get more
expensive, because we would beto even think well, you couldn't
get any, there's just no amountof money to get anyone out
(14:07):
there.
And I went on and on about thesnakes.
Oh, that's how I got onto rats,the snakes.
But let's talk about theinsects Also, in my pet stores
back to that same sillydigression we sold tarantulas,
tarantulas sorry, tarantulas.
Tarantulas are actually quitelovely.
At first they grossed me outtoo, but as I learned to handle
them, they're okay.
(14:28):
But most people are not okaywith handling spiders.
It's a certain subset of people, so the because you know they
have eight legs, it's like gross.
So to most human beings.
I think there's a built in butand I don't want to what?
The snakes are in there, thespiders are in there or they're
all hunting insects living amongall the plants.
(14:48):
You can spray all theinsecticide you want.
Plenty of bugs still love it.
And anyway, those snakes andthose spiders are good because
they control the harmful insectpopulation in the fields and the
rodent populations.
But at the same time, is thereany amount of money?
Let me ask you this is thereany amount of money that would
get you to sit right now inArizona and they're picking out
(15:10):
Yuma right now as I'm talking toyou?
I don't know what they'repicking, but they're picking,
they're always picking somethingout there.
That's a huge growing area withthe Colorado River and anyway,
the daytime temperatures Todayis an exceptionally nice day.
In Phoenix it's only going tobe 98 degrees because our
monsoon rain is coming in today,but typically it would be 105
to 110.
(15:30):
And you would be out in justmiserable sweltering heat all
day long.
And we're not talking from nineto five, we're talking from
when it's dark in the morningtill it's dark at night, and
then on, you know, stooping, oron your hands and knees with the
insects and bugs picking fruit.
Now is there any amount ofmoney that anyone could pay you?
So cut the crap, okay.
(15:51):
That is a fallacious argumentmade by people who have never
worked really hard a day intheir lives.
You know, going to college andgetting a law degree is not the
same as getting into the fieldsand working with the people
firsthand.
I just I, I have to say I thinkI'm a richer person for having
done it and know this firsthand.
So but the point is it's awin-win.
The other thing is the growers.
(16:14):
They're not out to screwanybody.
They pay what the market ratedemands and when there's a
limited amount of workers, asthere are, they have to pay what
the workers want, and if theydon't, then the workers will go
grow it what the workers want,and if they don't, then the
workers will go grow.
It's not a monopoly.
You know, when I was working inthe tomato fields at Nat
Finenson, there was a lot morethan just Nat Finenson.
(16:35):
We were just a smallish produceoperation among many produce
operations in the largestgrowing area in the world, and
if we weren't paying the rightrate to our guys in the fields,
someone else would to get bettercrews, because it's not just
about picking, it's aboutgetting a good crew, since
they're paid by the piece.
There's a lot of ways to cheatthat, like throwing rocks and
(16:56):
vines in with your picking,believe me, and a good crew is
worth its weight in gold and itgets paid.
It is a fallacious argument tothink that the only reason that
illegals are doing jobs not onlybecause they'll do it at a fair
wage that they are free to walkaway from in a voluntary labor
market, but they're also willingto do the job, the hard job,
(17:20):
because they're coming frompoverty and so they're willing
to do something that the averageAmerican I don't care who they
are won't do.
Can you even imagine taking theaverage welfare recipient out
of an inner city, okay, andsaying you know what?
We'll pay you $30 an hour to gopick at 108 degrees.
They'll tell you to go have sexwith yourself.
(17:41):
They'd rather collect less onwelfare, which I don't even know
if they collect less than $30an hour when you figure in all
their benefits.
I read the other day that inMassachusetts the average
welfare, a single mother withtwo children can count on about
$100,000 a year in variousbenefits, which is, if that's
true, that just makes me vomit.
But anyway, you're not going toget her or her baby, daddy or
(18:04):
whatever you want to call him oranyone else to go out in those
fields for any amount of money.
And because that would requirehard work, and not just hard
work like sitting over your deskworking hard on ledgers or hard
in front of your computerworking on technology solutions.
No, no, no, we're talking hardlike snakes, spiders, rocks and
(18:24):
rats, you know, I mean, we'retalking real hard work.
We're talking actual, honest,to God.
So please let me sum up thispodcast and bring it to a
conclusion.
This is idiotic.
The Trump administration hastheir heads up their tuchuses
okay on this issue when theystart going on.
This is about greedy owners whowant cheap labor, and this is
(18:45):
the secret that nobody's talkingabout.
That's no secret.
This is a free market and Trumpis as bad as that guy Mandani
in New York when he startswanting to manipulate labor
markets or tell lies about them.
Okay, this is socialistnonsense.
Okay, in a free labor market,which it most certainly is.
And if we handled this likenormal people and allowed the
(19:07):
immigration program that Isuggested, which is basically a
return to a guest worker program, essentially okay.
It would then the people noone's holding a gun to the heads
If foreign nationals from southof the border Mexicans, el
Salvadorans, nicaraguans,whoever comes up to pick, south
of the border, mexicans, elSalvadorans, nicaraguans,
whoever comes up to pick andthey pick and then they go home
(19:29):
because they have a guest workeryou know, I call it an orange
card where they can go back andforth across the border and they
can do it without worryingabout having to hire a coyote to
bring them across for $3,000 to$5,000 a pass to avoid, you
know, interdiction, becausethey're law-abiding people and
the only crime they broke was.
The only law they broke wascrossing the border.
(19:50):
So now we make it so they can,they'll go home.
They don't want to be Americans, they're not here to vote in
our elections, they're here towork and make some money and go
home, because money goes a lotfarther back home, within the
culture that they love.
Let's bring us to the last point.
Back in the day and this is theearly 1970s families would come
(20:16):
up and it was whole families.
But don't think like anAmerican and start getting all
uptight about child labor.
You see these things of like inthe Congo children are working
and they're mining I don't knowwhat it is some mineral.
It's really horrible, and I'mthe first to say it.
And so the American reaction isstop them from doing that,
except that they would juststarve to death.
You're not talking to Americawith a welfare state, you're
(20:37):
talking about the kids work orthey die.
So the whole families come uphere from down in these places
where the social safety net isnot exactly American, and they
all work together and they maketens of thousands of dollars
from down in these places wherethe social safety net is not
exactly American, and they allwork together and they make tens
of thousands of dollars whichthey save.
And then they cross back downand they go down.
Let me tell you, you make$20,000.
And I don't know what they'remaking today, but back in those
(20:58):
days they could go home with$20,000 in a growing season,
real easy, and $20,000 bytoday's standards would be
$100,000.
And they go down and they go totheir villages down south in
Mexico and we're talkingprimitive villages, but villages
that they understand theirculture, their life, their home,
their family.
And, by the way, down south,because they're deeply religious
(21:20):
people and deeply Catholicpeople, they tend to be very
family oriented.
So grandma, grandpa, uncles,aunts, kids, grandkids, great
grandkids everyone gets together.
The money is part of the familymoney and they live on it and
they live well.
They're wealthy by localstandards.
Then the next year they pileinto the truck, they head up to
the border.
This is how it would work andwe'd all get cheaper tomatoes
(21:42):
because of it.
It's a win-win and nobody isdoing this just to get cheap
labor because of the free labormarket.
Do you understand that it's afree labor market?
Just because somebody speaksSpanish only doesn't make them
retarded.
They're not going to work ifthey aren't being fairly paid.
There are other places to go,there are other growers, and if
none of the growers will paythem right, they'll just go home
because there are jobs inMexico that they could do.
(22:03):
If they're going to be forcedto do it at slave labor rates,
where the minimum wage in Mexicothat used to be I don't know
what it is now.
It used to be like $7.50 a day.
Okay so, and listen, democratson the left, get rid of the idea
of minimum wage.
It shuts out manual labor andpeople who are learning to do
things at the entry level, andthat's another discussion for
another day.
(22:23):
And that's another discussionfor another day.
But, republicans, you have noget dismount your high horse for
making this idiotic economicargument that this is all being
done, that the bribe Americans,higher wages, baloney, baloney
or shall I say, bullshit.
It's just not true.
Ok, I have made my argument fortoday.
(22:45):
I hope you are all bettereducated as a result and can
spread this knowledge among yourfriends, because, let me tell
you, most people, I don't think,get it.
This is why I think Economics101 should be required teaching
in every high school in America.
So politicians couldn't makethese idiotic arguments and
people sit there and shake theirheads like they agree.
It's just not true.
(23:06):
Idiotic arguments and peoplesit there and shake their heads
like they agree.
It's just not true.
It's not true from theslightest.
The minute you begin tocritically think about it, you
can see all the ways this cannotpossibly be true.
And yet our mainstream media inparticular, and a lot of our
non-traditional media none ofthem are economists and none of
them took any economics.
So they mouth this crap,depending on what side they come
from, right or left.
And this particular line I'llkeep using bullshit, since I
(23:34):
already use it this particularline of bullshit is coming from
the right.
You know this greedy employer.
Shut out the American worker.
All they want is cheap wages.
That's why they want limitedamnesty Bullshit.
Okay, I have made my point.
Thank you for listening to metoday.
Don't forget to pick up yourcopy of Eradical Reset.
You can pick it up on Amazon InKindle, paperback or hardcover.
Don't forget to share thispodcast with your friends.
(23:56):
Thank you very, very much.
My name is Herbie K, in caseyou didn't remember that From
the beginning.
What a weird thing to add atthe end I do this all
spontaneously.
It's all what comes into myhead.
Anyway, have a beautiful day.
I'll talk to you again onFriday.
God bless you, god bless yourfamily and God bless America.
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