July 20, 2025 • 44 mins
Join Nischala Joy Devi and Kamala Rose as they mark their podcast's first anniversary by exploring the transformative power of feminine spiritual wisdom. In this special episode, they reflect on the groundbreaking Seneca Falls Convention, challenge traditional religious narratives, and reinterpret the Bhagavad Gita through a lens of equality and empowerment.
Key Topics:
- The historic significance of the Seneca Falls Convention
- Women's rights and spiritual interpretation
- Challenging patriarchal religious narratives
- The importance of women's voices in spiritual discourse
- Exploring gender equality in ancient spiritual texts
- The power of sisterhood and collective empowerment
Drawing from their deep yoga traditions and personal experiences, these two remarkable women offer a compelling conversation that bridges historical struggle with contemporary spiritual understanding. Whether you're a yoga practitioner, spiritual seeker, or advocate for women's rights, this episode promises insight, inspiration, and a powerful reminder of women's inherent spiritual strength.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lilavati Eberle (00:02):
Foreign Namaste. Welcome to a woman's
Gita podcast, a moderndiscussion of the Bhagavad Gita
by and for Western women, awomen's Gita features
discussions on the BhagavadGita, the timeless classic of
Eastern wisdom, reinterpretedfrom the perspective of two
female teachers. Your hosts arenisjla Joy Devi and Kamala rose
(00:28):
to the yoga tradition at a timewhen women's voices are finally
emerging. A feminine perspectiveof the wartime treatise could
not be more timely.
Kamala Rose (00:42):
Namaste. Welcome to a woman's Gita Podcast. I'm
Kamala rose
Nischala Joy Devi (00:48):
and I'm nischala Joy Devi.
Kamala Rose (00:51):
Today is a special edition of our podcast, as we
are celebrating our one yearanniversary. Nischala Davey and
I have been recording thiswoman's Gita podcast for one
year now, and it's been quite alot of interesting discussions
(01:12):
between us. I want to starttoday by acknowledging where we
began, how we began this podcasta year ago, which was on July 20
of 2024, and we specificallystarted on July 20 as a way of
(01:36):
acknowledging the historicmeeting at Seneca Falls in New
York, which was the very firstconference on women's rights, a
meeting that was a gathering ofQuakers, abolitionists, bringing
(02:00):
together of those concerned withthe social, civil and religious
conditions and rights of womenin the Seneca Falls convention,
they brought together a lot ofideas under what they called the
Declaration of Sentiments. Oneof the causes that was brought
(02:20):
forward for discussion was theright to vote, which was not
supported by everyone there.
There were so many complexissues during that time, such as
the abolition of slavery andland rights to all people. The
United States was moving quicklyinto the Civil War, but the
(02:41):
right to vote became the clarioncall of this meeting, and 50
years later, another historicdocument emerged and authored by
Elizabeth Katie Stanton, butalso by a panel of women who who
(03:05):
began the work at Seneca Falls,they came together to draft a
woman's Bible and address someof the underlying issues that
the document of sentiments wasaiming to address, many of which
(03:26):
came to the inequity of womenthat is seated in religious
belief in the short documentcalled a woman's Bible, the
woman's Bible. Elizabeth CadyStanton outlines many points of
argument with standardinterpretations of the
(03:49):
traditional reading of the Oldand New Testaments. She says the
first step in the elevation ofwoman to her true position as an
equal factor in human progressis the cultivation of the
religious sentiment in regard toher dignity, her equality, the
(04:12):
recognition by the risinggeneration of an ideal, Heavenly
Mother to whom their prayersshould be addressed, as well as
to a father. This is an argumentthat falls on curious ears here
on this podcast, somethingnishla Davi and I have discussed
(04:36):
at length the importance of thefeminine in the religious dialog
nistula, what can Seneca Fallsteach us today?
Nischala Joy Devi (04:51):
Boy, you know, it's sad to me also that
so many people don't even knowabout this. They don't, you say
to them, you know about Seneca.
False convention. They just lookat you like you have they have
no idea. So I think one of themain things that I feel when I
hear this is we have donesomething in our in our society,
(05:13):
many societies, we've separatedthe spiritual from the material,
and I think this has gotten uson a lot of problems because of
that separation. So here we seein this convention that what
they are saying is the right tovote is paramount, because if
women do not have a say in howthey're treated, in how the land
(05:39):
is distributed into theireducation, all these things, the
right to have their own money.
If all these things are notbeing able to be decided by the
women themselves as well as men,we lose because they have
(06:04):
there's no benefit to them ingiving us these rights, and we
can see historically theyhaven't. What I don't understand
is, what are they so afraid of?
Why are they so afraid of women,and the power that we have, that
they're keeping us in, they'retrying to keep us in these
(06:26):
positions, yet we see theycan't. It's impossible, because
the power of that regeneration,that that power of creation, is
so strong, and it was given towomen. Women were given that do
men have a part in it?
(06:46):
Absolutely, but they don't carrythat baby for nine months. They
don't provide the food andliterally build the body of that
baby. So the fear that they havein our rejuvenation and
regeneration seems to fall theycan't do anything about it
(07:09):
spiritually, so they have to dosomething about it materially
and take our rights away. Yetwe're still the ones that bring
the next generation forward.
We're still the ones that takecare of the home, the education,
etc, etc, of the children. Sothere's this dichotomy that I'm
(07:30):
not sure a lot of people realizewhen we talk about the right to
vote, it's not just to decide ifroads should be built or who
should be president or not. It'salso the rights of the people,
and also, I feel like women havetraditionally been more
(07:51):
accepting of other people,whether it's color, whether it's
national origin, whatever it is,and they can then vote for those
people to have their rights atthe same time. So I think this
is very significant, and at atime now where even the voting
(08:12):
is real in the United States isvery touchy at this point. I
think it's something worthfighting for.
Kamala Rose (08:24):
Well, the idea that your vote is your voice
certainly should, shouldresonate in all of us, that that
is how we are able to speak incivil society and looking at the
world history and the votes ofwomen in the United States and
(08:47):
countries across the world as afairly recent happening, as well
as the votes of minorities andpeople who were othered to The
point of being kept as slaves,right? These all address the
ability to make choices foroneself, who is allowed to do
(09:09):
that and who is not allowed todo that? And I think the role of
religion to reinforce thoseideas of who is and who is not
has has fallen on men to be thevoice of God in a way of
interpreting the way it shouldbe played out in civil society.
(09:32):
And I think, I think, you know,looking, looking at Elizabeth
Cady Stanton's work and thoseideas and having this last year
with you discussing the BhagavadGita, another text that has
brought a religious a religiousworldview that has oppressed
(09:59):
women. In 1000 different ways. Ithink, as a general, you and I
both agree that religion, asinstitutional religion, has
played a mighty role in womensubjugation, and we can just say
(10:19):
in in general, organizedreligion, whether that is east
or that is West. And I think wecan make a differentiation in a
way between spirituality as itis experienced in the internal
space of an individual, andreligion as a political force
(10:42):
that is dictated by the powersthat be and in the patriarchal
systems that we live in todayand we can study in our recorded
history, it's a it's a historyof men ruling over everyone and
(11:07):
elite men ruling over the otherclasses of people. So when we
talk about something like havingthe right to vote and to have
your voice heard, wereaddressing issues that go deep
into human history, and theyreally address patriarchy,
(11:29):
specifically in the idea ofhaving hierarchies, that there
are rankings of people, Somepeople being more valuable than
other people as an essentialpart of that control over who
can speak and who can't. I mean,we're we're seeing so much
(11:50):
unfold in our United States now,and it's interesting to look
back 175 years to Seneca Falls.
I'll tell you one thing I wasstruck by reading Elizabeth Cady
Stanton's words is there's asection where she takes an
overview of some of the creationmyths, and she clearly has never
(12:12):
read anything of Easternthought, and so she spoke. She
was at the Norse myths and rightand everything Abrahamic, but
the East was not yet known atthat time of her writing. And so
when I was reading that andfeeling so grateful, but also
(12:35):
humble in the time that we livein, and feeling the contrast
between then and now, but evennow, our voices are still the
subject
Nischala Joy Devi (12:57):
when we put a human as a god, and that human
happens to be in a male bodywithout any compromise, the rest
of the people immediately aredemeaned. That's what happens.
(13:18):
That that just happens. So whenit said that man, and it does
say that M, a n, was created inGod's image, what happens to the
rest of us? We suddenly arewithout a place that we were
created. And then it was asecond thought, oh, mainly it
(13:42):
was the man. And we can see howthis plays out now, in in homes,
even that a foe, a girl baby isborn, it's great, but if a boy
baby is born, ah, because theywere the only ones that could
inherit, they could be the onlyones that could become the
(14:03):
queen, the king, I'm sorry, theking or the Emperor afterwards.
So here we have elevated oneportion of human beings to that
level, and all else are notcounted. So when we look at
(14:23):
this, we we see that when youwere talking about even using
the term Abrahamic, right?
Abraham, we're coming fromAbraham. Why? When was the last
time anyone, and I'm going tosay anyone on this earth ever
saw a man give birth toanything? They just can't it's
(14:45):
just not humanly possible, oreven, I'm sorry to say, divinely
possible. So when we give thiscredit of creation. Vision. And
we say these things to them, Iactually have to step back, step
back, and little laugh a littlebit. The Father has given all
(15:06):
the congratulations. She did,all the work. He's getting all
the congratulations. And then hefeels this is something now
somebody has created in myimage, so he's taking on that
idea also. So I think this is sosignificant, it from the
spiritual point of view that wecan't assume everything that's
(15:31):
said in these scriptures isoriginally, right? And
originally said, because it'sbeen translated, retranslated
and retranslated so many times,and we have that. So here we are
again. We're trying to defendwomen. I think I'm getting a
(15:57):
little tired of it. I thinkwomen just have to be and let's
not try to defend them, I think.
And we've talked about thisbefore, a lot of the issue comes
from the way the scripturesdescribe us. I think I mentioned
(16:18):
this at some point. When I waswriting the secret power of
yoga, I tried to find somepositive quotes from these
different scriptures aboutwomen, and what I found mostly
is that there were eitherprostitutes or there were barren
And nothing that glorified notonly women, but motherhood, the
(16:42):
ability to give birth to anotherhuman being that comes out of
your body alive, I don't thinkwe stop and realize how amazing
that is on a regular basis. Sohere we are. On one hand, we're
saying, Oh, this is an amazingthing birth, and on the other
(17:02):
hand, we're saying, Yeah, well,it's not quite as good as what
the men do.
Kamala Rose (17:08):
That's yeah, considering the considering
creation and the process ofcreation and the enormous
inequity. I'll remind ourlisteners that at the Seneca
Falls convention, it was quiteradical, because at that time,
(17:31):
women were not allowed to speakin public. So that's a good
thing to remember that therehave been times when something
like this podcast would havebeen never happened outside of
the law, but women daring toreinterpret scripture, what a
(17:56):
radical proposition. What doesit mean to us? What does it mean
to you? Nishula, a femininelens, a feminine voice.
Nischala Joy Devi (18:05):
You know, when you said that just now,
something in me just kind ofrecoiled, because I don't think
we're reinterpreting anything. Ithink we're interpreting it. I
think it's just going back towhat we know as truth, that all
beings are equal. We're all bornthat way. What we do with it
(18:28):
afterwards is changed, but we'reall that, whether what color,
what shape, what gender, all ofthat, it doesn't matter, because
the same spirit is there. And Ithink if we look at the Bibles
and the spiritual books and theSeneca Falls convention, what it
was trying to do, it was justtrying to get a place holder.
(18:52):
Let's get let's bring thesewomen back in. And they don't
have to be prostitutes, theydon't have to be barren. They
can be pillars of the communitylike the men are. They can be
deciding things like the men do,and I that was the purpose of
it. But when you say how longago it was, it's so sad how
(19:16):
little has really happened inthat time. And you know, when I
talk to someone who's younger,they don't know about this, and
they don't know about how hardwe fought for the rights of
women to vote, to be able totake care of their own bodies
and to see it then wiped away,is very, very demeaning to us,
(19:42):
demeaning to us. Because whatmakes anyone superior to the
other? Like I was just talkingand I said, you know, I have a
really great ability to do this,but that doesn't mean I can do
everything to somebody else cando so. Something that I can't
do. And I think this is, this isthe way of the world to
(20:05):
appreciate others talents, andthat Seneca Falls convention,
the fact that there were so manyabolitionists there, the fact
that they saw that as also aform of slavery, which it was,
is not was keeping money frompeople, keeping them uneducated.
(20:32):
Call it what you want. It's,it's the same. They didn't have
the freedom. You see, if we canlook at these stories, I read a
lot of historical novels, andyou see you said, Why didn't she
leave Why didn't she just leavehim? And you realize she
couldn't. She had no education,she had no money, she she had no
(20:54):
place to go. So here we see thisagain and again and to I wish
they had a holiday thatcelebrated that national that
convention. Maybe someday wewill, finally, we got a holiday
of Juneteenth, so maybe therewill be something for the women
too. I don't know. I'm hoping
Kamala Rose (21:16):
recognizing the limitation of participation in
society, that this equals thatto give equal rights, to give
civil rights, to give a vote isto give a voice. And I think to
(21:37):
me, the feminine perspective isimportant in the the dialog. On
spirituality, if that's what wewant to call this, in our in our
ongoing dialog on the Gita, Ireally feel that a woman's
perspective is is different forso many of the reasons that
(21:57):
you've brought up the idea ofhaving of giving birth, the
potential to give birth, theperspective of someone who knows
what it feels like to not be theprimary player or agent, speaks
to so many people thatexperience life on the margins,
(22:24):
who are our secondarycharacters, who exist in
relationship to other people. Ithink this is really what a
woman's perspective brings. Issomeone who is not the hero, who
is not striving for anindividual win and victory.
(22:48):
We're hearing from a voice thatknows what it means to be in
relationship and in deepconnection to others. And I
would argue that this isrealistic to a lot of the people
on planet Earth are not comingfrom the vantage point, the
(23:11):
point of view of the hero orthat person who has the
opportunity to excel in thatway. I also was watching a
historical drama, and this wasfrom the 1930s and one of the
(23:32):
daughters says, but I really,really want to go and learn. And
the father says, school is forboys, yep, end of matter,
Nischala Joy Devi (23:42):
yep, and his, his word is law.
Kamala Rose (23:47):
That was the end of the discussion. School is for
boys,
Nischala Joy Devi (23:50):
yep, yep, and look what they did to us for
dress. You talk about thesetimes with these big hoop skirts
and the big bustles in the back,we could hardly move. I mean,
it's like, it's like they foot,they bound the feet in China of
(24:13):
women, because somehow thatturned men on, and then they
couldn't get away. I mean, thesethings that they're doing that's
accepted. I don't, I don'tunderstand the acceptance of it,
that if there's enoughpopulation, why don't we do
something? Is it fear, again, wethis keeps coming up. Is it fear
(24:38):
of what they are going to andcan do to us, or are we afraid
of our own power as women? Ithink that's the other thing we
have to look at. Why aren't westepping up when we have the
chance? Yes, some do, but manydon't. They still follow their
(24:59):
husbands. They. Still don'tthink that they're worthy of
getting an education. They'renot, still not contributing to
society at large. They'reraising the children, which is a
very important thing to do. Buta lot of women, that's not the
only thing they want to do. Theywant to contribute on a larger
scale. You know, it'sinteresting, some years ago, my
(25:23):
literary agent used to sendChristmas cards every year to
everybody and and then shestarted pulling back, and she
wrote to us, and she said, Youknow, I'd rather take that money
and give it to women asliteracy, because when women are
(25:44):
literate, the whole familybecomes literate. She teaches
everybody. And when she when Iread that, that note that she
had written, I thought tomyself, How true is that? How
true is that you really youlearn something, and you come
home and you share that withyour children, and then they
(26:06):
become educated. So there,there's a part that women and
men are different. I knowsometimes we want to think we're
not, and on the spiritual level,we're not we're the same, we're
not different, but on the otherlevels, we are. We're different,
(26:27):
not necessarily better or worse,but different. We have different
roles. We have different ways ofexpressing the roles. Even if we
move into a more of a masculinerole, we express it differently.
I saw this when suddenly allthese women started to be
accepted. Not that they wentthey accepted to medical school,
(26:47):
because for a long time therewas a quota. You couldn't have
very many women. First of all,there wasn't any and then they
had a quota. So maybe 10 womenper class were invited in. And
once you saw these womenstarting to take over to now
there's 52 53% of all themedical students are women. You
(27:10):
start to see the change inmedicine. You start to see the
things that happen. You start tosee someone actually listening
to you, not just treating you.
And it will continue to change,because now women are not taught
by men in medical schoolanymore. There's now medical
school professors that arewomen. So the whole idea of
(27:33):
compassion and listening iscoming back. We need to bring it
back in all the professions, notjust medicine.
Kamala Rose (27:47):
One profession that women are still sorely, sorely
underrepresented in is oncommentary on religious
scripture. Yes, right, women inclergy is a rare, rare occasion,
and many religions still havethat glass ceiling of non
(28:09):
admittance into the into thepriesthood, into further
ordination and for for women whoeven would be interested in that
role, I think we shouldunderstand it as as an issue,
(28:30):
that there is a ceiling onadvancement spiritually as well.
It means that you don't get thetraining right. You are not
allowed to learn at that level,right? Right? That's what the
glass ceiling means. It doesn'tmean that you can't give
communion on Sunday, but youalso do not have access to the
(28:51):
more advanced levels of practiceand teaching, right? This has
been an area where Western womenhave fought back, and I was
reminded of that wonderful quotefrom the Dalai Lama who said the
Western women are going to getus out of this mess. Yeah, yeah,
(29:13):
right. And Tibetan Buddhism isone area that has had a huge
influx of Western women whohave, who have been empowered
and emboldened by the women'smovement and feel called to
question. You know, many of ourlisteners might not know, but in
(29:37):
traditional, many traditionalEastern practices, it's men
only, and the room is filledwith men and women. Can sit in
another room, probably cannotlisten to a more advanced
teaching because of the cut offand ordination. So right here's.
(30:00):
Here's us here for in 2025discussing the Bhagavad Gita,
which is a text that also has arestriction to be interpreted by
men, traditionally by Brahminpriests, women are not allowed
to traditionally interpret theBhagavad Gita in traditional
(30:22):
Vedic society. But since we arehere, we're Western women. We're
considered outside of theSanskrit culture. We're we're
called malachas, right? We'renot inside the it's a, it's a
word for non Indian, nonsanskritists. We're already
(30:44):
outside of the tradition. Sohere we are discussing this
ancient battlefield text, andwe've had so many conversations.
We've worked hard on ourtranslations, and we've worked
hard to continue this dialog forthe benefit of the yoga
(31:07):
community, which is really madeup predominantly of Western
women. So here we are. NishchalaDevi, what do you find is one
verse that we can read toempower women.
Nischala Joy Devi (31:25):
Well, I think, I think we, it all has to
be tweaked a little bit. We,first of all, I think gender has
to be taken out of Scripture.
And I try to use the word onerather than he or she, because
we're now dealing with nonbinary people. We're dealing
(31:47):
with all kinds of people thathave to be included. And I think
that's the other thing women do.
Women are inclusive. We includeso you know, when you were
talking, I had I was smiling,which people can't see, but um,
(32:09):
because I think this is thereason that so many women went
to Eastern religion. Went tothat because it's not something
that we have from birth, that wewere taught and brought to
church or synagogue or temple orwhatever. We were brought to
mosque. This is something thatwe took on as adults with an
(32:34):
adult mind to be able to look atit. And I must say, with all the
prejudices against women and allthe restrictions, I was actually
initiated into a very masculineorder, and there were half
(32:56):
women, and when we were takeneven to the Shankaracharya to
see he he looked at first women,and then he said, aha, when you
are a Sannyasi, when yourenunciate, there's no gender.
You're the sexless self. And Ithink that's where we have to
get to more with all this takingthat, that gender out of it, and
(33:24):
just remembering that the theessence of who we are doesn't
have a gender. There's no sexwith it. There's, there's, it's
just pure energy, pure light.
It's neither masculine norfeminine. Just like the moon we
we want to call it masculine orfeminine. It's an either it
doesn't reproduce itself. Youknow, that's a function of
(33:48):
reproduction that you have todecide if it's male female. Once
you get to the spirit, it's notso what we were looking at
before,
Kamala Rose (34:01):
I'll just add that.
Sorry, yes, I'll just add that,right, that idea of gender as
more an outer feature and notreally part of the subject that
we're reading, the Gita toconsider, which is the
transcendent, spiritual aspect.
(34:24):
So I, for me, the distinctionhere is between religion that
deals with the rules and laws ofgoverning people under a
religious belief, right, andthen to make, to make a
distinction betweenspirituality, which is inherent
in every living thing, in everyliving being, a completely
(34:48):
different experience. So aswe're reading the Bhagavad Gita
and we're taking the shlokas tointo a spiritual. Meaning
something that's meaningful tothe to both of us as long time
practitioners, long timemeditators, both ordained in our
(35:11):
traditions and spending a lot oftime with births and deaths and
rites and rituals and the thingsthat ordained people are
concerned with right the the theworkings of the spiritual life,
but right this, this idea of therestrictions of religion as they
(35:31):
apply to gender, I think, isthis is one important dialog to
have and to Be able to discernthe deeper spiritual message
that does always apply toeveryone, whether we're reading
the Old and New Testament orwe're reading the Bhagavad Gita
(35:52):
here. So anyway, I just thatthat really, that really comes
to mind as a distinction betweensomething that's not not so much
a female centric thing, butbelongs to everyone.
Spirituality belongs toeveryone, but religion belongs
to men.
Nischala Joy Devi (36:14):
Interesting, yeah, when we see my thing is
that trickle down. I feel like alot of the problems started from
the books, the scriptures. Andwhen it's given in a Scripture,
(36:35):
we even use the expression, thisis law. This is the way it is.
And there's no questioning.
We've been taught not toquestion it. So what happens? It
becomes law, and it becomes thelaw of the land, and it also
becomes the way we are treated.
When I think of that, I alwayslaugh, because in India, the
(36:59):
cows are sacred. If there's acow crossing the street, all
traffic stops, all pedestriantraffic stops, well, vehicular
traffic stops, but it's okay tobeat your wife or your child, so
(37:21):
I think things need to berealigned. If I can use a very
gentle phrase for somethingthat's not gentle at all, and it
gets back to you and I, Kamala,belonging to yoga, gives back
because we don't want to see thewomen treated like that anymore.
(37:42):
We want the women to have a say.
We want them to have aneducation. We want them to have
money, so that money bringspower. But if you think of that
ridiculousness of taking care ofa cow, but not a woman, not that
a cow shouldn't be taken careof, of course it should. It
serves them, it gives them food.
(38:02):
And they're they're magnificentanimals. But what about women?
She also gives them food and hastheir children and takes care of
them and washes their clothesand does all those things, and
in the Western world, brings inas much, if not more money, than
he does. Where is that? So, asyou asked me a few minutes ago
(38:29):
about a sloka And in chapternine, and those of you that are
enjoying us going through theGita as hopefully, as much as we
are, we're having a great timewith it. It may seem slow and it
may seem like we're not. When ischapter nine going to happen?
(38:51):
When are we going to get there?
But we want to really have youunderstand this, not just read
it through and and move on, butto really take it into your life
and see how it affects you as awoman in today's world. So this
is chapter nine, sloka 32 and itsays, No matter your birth,
(39:16):
race, gender or caste, even ifyou are scorned by others, if
you take refuge in Me, thencertainly you will chain the
supreme goal. I think theyshould have put that number one,
(39:39):
sloka, why bury it back inchapter nine? Because that way,
when you pick up the Gita, youfeel like you're in it. This is
also talking to you, not justthe person sitting next to you
who happens to but. Animal, amale body, we need to understand
(40:00):
there was a beautiful poem thatSwami Vivekananda. We talked
about him before he was the onethat really brought yoga to the
United States in 1893 theparliament religions. He he
wrote many songs, many poems. Hewas a poet, and one of them, he
(40:23):
says, no birth, no death, nocast. Have I Right? No gender,
nothing. This is, this is whatthe Spirit is, no, death, no
birth, no death, no cast. Have Ifather, mother? Have I none? I
am spirit. I am spirit. I amspirit. And that's really what
(40:50):
we're talking about here. Ithink the only hope of peace and
joy and love in this world isgoing to the spiritual level, as
long as we stay on the level ofmale, female, white, black,
Indian, non Indian, EasternAsian, this and that, we're
(41:12):
always going to be fighting witheach other, because We can't
appreciate the differences. Weonly see the differences. But
doing this, moving to thatlevel, we all become one.
Kamala Rose (41:29):
I think you're so right to choose 932, as an
important verse that although tous moderns, right? It does sound
like confronting. Here's anothertranslation, those who are
considered low birth, right?
This is the or come from evilwombs say some translations,
(41:52):
right? It still is saying thateveryone is equal. Everyone is
equal. And for a religious andspiritual text to make a
declaration of equality in thisway is significant, and it is a
real strength of the BhagavadGita, is that it does lend
(42:14):
itself to an equality thatKrishna is speaking here about
bhakti, that in the devotionalspirit we are, we are all equal
in the eyes of the Divine. Sohere is we're getting ready to
(42:35):
wrap up. Right? What is onething that we can leave our
listeners with, right? This isour one year anniversary, and we
are. We've continued. We'restill recording. So I hope our
listeners, I hope you stay tunedwith us. But what is one
practice or question that we canleave our listeners with
Nischala Joy Devi (43:04):
it's power.
Don't be afraid of your ownpower. Show it in a benevolent
way. Show it with love wrappedaround love. And I think that
will change the world. Don't letanybody demean you in any way,
spiritually, mentally,emotionally or physically, and
always remember that you're notalone. Women have a sisterhood.
(43:29):
There's something there. There'sa power that we're there for
each other, and hold on to that,
Kamala Rose (43:41):
to claim our power to use our voices and to trust
each other. I'd like to like,I'd love to see more leaning
into trusting and supportingeach other, especially in the
yoga community, as we're holdingon in a rare moment of time to
(44:03):
something very sacred, and so Ihope you'll continue to listen
and learn more about the deeptradition of yoga and what it
has to offer us in the Modernworld. Thanks for being with us.
Namaste. Namaste.
Lilavati Eberle (44:25):
Thank you for joining us for a women's Gita
with nisjla Joy Devi and Kamalarose. We would like to express
our gratitude for the ongoingsupport for a women's Gita
podcast and book from yoga givesback a non profit organization
dedicated to the underservedwomen and children of India.
Please join us again for ournext episode coming soon.
(44:49):
Namaste. You.
Foreign Namaste. Welcome to a woman's
Gita podcast, a moderndiscussion of the Bhagavad Gita
by and for Western women, awomen's Gita features
discussions on the BhagavadGita, the timeless classic of
Eastern wisdom, reinterpretedfrom the perspective of two
female teachers. Your hosts arenisjla Joy Devi and Kamala rose
(00:28):
to the yoga tradition at a timewhen women's voices are finally
emerging. A feminine perspectiveof the wartime treatise could
not be more timely.
Kamala Rose (00:42):
Namaste. Welcome to a woman's Gita Podcast. I'm
Kamala rose
Nischala Joy Devi (00:48):
and I'm nischala Joy Devi.
Kamala Rose (00:51):
Today is a special edition of our podcast, as we
are celebrating our one yearanniversary. Nischala Davey and
I have been recording thiswoman's Gita podcast for one
year now, and it's been quite alot of interesting discussions
(01:12):
between us. I want to starttoday by acknowledging where we
began, how we began this podcasta year ago, which was on July 20
of 2024, and we specificallystarted on July 20 as a way of
(01:36):
acknowledging the historicmeeting at Seneca Falls in New
York, which was the very firstconference on women's rights, a
meeting that was a gathering ofQuakers, abolitionists, bringing
(02:00):
together of those concerned withthe social, civil and religious
conditions and rights of womenin the Seneca Falls convention,
they brought together a lot ofideas under what they called the
Declaration of Sentiments. Oneof the causes that was brought
(02:20):
forward for discussion was theright to vote, which was not
supported by everyone there.
There were so many complexissues during that time, such as
the abolition of slavery andland rights to all people. The
United States was moving quicklyinto the Civil War, but the
(02:41):
right to vote became the clarioncall of this meeting, and 50
years later, another historicdocument emerged and authored by
Elizabeth Katie Stanton, butalso by a panel of women who who
(03:05):
began the work at Seneca Falls,they came together to draft a
woman's Bible and address someof the underlying issues that
the document of sentiments wasaiming to address, many of which
(03:26):
came to the inequity of womenthat is seated in religious
belief in the short documentcalled a woman's Bible, the
woman's Bible. Elizabeth CadyStanton outlines many points of
argument with standardinterpretations of the
(03:49):
traditional reading of the Oldand New Testaments. She says the
first step in the elevation ofwoman to her true position as an
equal factor in human progressis the cultivation of the
religious sentiment in regard toher dignity, her equality, the
(04:12):
recognition by the risinggeneration of an ideal, Heavenly
Mother to whom their prayersshould be addressed, as well as
to a father. This is an argumentthat falls on curious ears here
on this podcast, somethingnishla Davi and I have discussed
(04:36):
at length the importance of thefeminine in the religious dialog
nistula, what can Seneca Fallsteach us today?
Nischala Joy Devi (04:51):
Boy, you know, it's sad to me also that
so many people don't even knowabout this. They don't, you say
to them, you know about Seneca.
False convention. They just lookat you like you have they have
no idea. So I think one of themain things that I feel when I
hear this is we have donesomething in our in our society,
(05:13):
many societies, we've separatedthe spiritual from the material,
and I think this has gotten uson a lot of problems because of
that separation. So here we seein this convention that what
they are saying is the right tovote is paramount, because if
women do not have a say in howthey're treated, in how the land
(05:39):
is distributed into theireducation, all these things, the
right to have their own money.
If all these things are notbeing able to be decided by the
women themselves as well as men,we lose because they have
(06:04):
there's no benefit to them ingiving us these rights, and we
can see historically theyhaven't. What I don't understand
is, what are they so afraid of?
Why are they so afraid of women,and the power that we have, that
they're keeping us in, they'retrying to keep us in these
(06:26):
positions, yet we see theycan't. It's impossible, because
the power of that regeneration,that that power of creation, is
so strong, and it was given towomen. Women were given that do
men have a part in it?
(06:46):
Absolutely, but they don't carrythat baby for nine months. They
don't provide the food andliterally build the body of that
baby. So the fear that they havein our rejuvenation and
regeneration seems to fall theycan't do anything about it
(07:09):
spiritually, so they have to dosomething about it materially
and take our rights away. Yetwe're still the ones that bring
the next generation forward.
We're still the ones that takecare of the home, the education,
etc, etc, of the children. Sothere's this dichotomy that I'm
(07:30):
not sure a lot of people realizewhen we talk about the right to
vote, it's not just to decide ifroads should be built or who
should be president or not. It'salso the rights of the people,
and also, I feel like women havetraditionally been more
(07:51):
accepting of other people,whether it's color, whether it's
national origin, whatever it is,and they can then vote for those
people to have their rights atthe same time. So I think this
is very significant, and at atime now where even the voting
(08:12):
is real in the United States isvery touchy at this point. I
think it's something worthfighting for.
Kamala Rose (08:24):
Well, the idea that your vote is your voice
certainly should, shouldresonate in all of us, that that
is how we are able to speak incivil society and looking at the
world history and the votes ofwomen in the United States and
(08:47):
countries across the world as afairly recent happening, as well
as the votes of minorities andpeople who were othered to The
point of being kept as slaves,right? These all address the
ability to make choices foroneself, who is allowed to do
(09:09):
that and who is not allowed todo that? And I think the role of
religion to reinforce thoseideas of who is and who is not
has has fallen on men to be thevoice of God in a way of
interpreting the way it shouldbe played out in civil society.
(09:32):
And I think, I think, you know,looking, looking at Elizabeth
Cady Stanton's work and thoseideas and having this last year
with you discussing the BhagavadGita, another text that has
brought a religious a religiousworldview that has oppressed
(09:59):
women. In 1000 different ways. Ithink, as a general, you and I
both agree that religion, asinstitutional religion, has
played a mighty role in womensubjugation, and we can just say
(10:19):
in in general, organizedreligion, whether that is east
or that is West. And I think wecan make a differentiation in a
way between spirituality as itis experienced in the internal
space of an individual, andreligion as a political force
(10:42):
that is dictated by the powersthat be and in the patriarchal
systems that we live in todayand we can study in our recorded
history, it's a it's a historyof men ruling over everyone and
(11:07):
elite men ruling over the otherclasses of people. So when we
talk about something like havingthe right to vote and to have
your voice heard, wereaddressing issues that go deep
into human history, and theyreally address patriarchy,
(11:29):
specifically in the idea ofhaving hierarchies, that there
are rankings of people, Somepeople being more valuable than
other people as an essentialpart of that control over who
can speak and who can't. I mean,we're we're seeing so much
(11:50):
unfold in our United States now,and it's interesting to look
back 175 years to Seneca Falls.
I'll tell you one thing I wasstruck by reading Elizabeth Cady
Stanton's words is there's asection where she takes an
overview of some of the creationmyths, and she clearly has never
(12:12):
read anything of Easternthought, and so she spoke. She
was at the Norse myths and rightand everything Abrahamic, but
the East was not yet known atthat time of her writing. And so
when I was reading that andfeeling so grateful, but also
(12:35):
humble in the time that we livein, and feeling the contrast
between then and now, but evennow, our voices are still the
subject
Nischala Joy Devi (12:57):
when we put a human as a god, and that human
happens to be in a male bodywithout any compromise, the rest
of the people immediately aredemeaned. That's what happens.
(13:18):
That that just happens. So whenit said that man, and it does
say that M, a n, was created inGod's image, what happens to the
rest of us? We suddenly arewithout a place that we were
created. And then it was asecond thought, oh, mainly it
(13:42):
was the man. And we can see howthis plays out now, in in homes,
even that a foe, a girl baby isborn, it's great, but if a boy
baby is born, ah, because theywere the only ones that could
inherit, they could be the onlyones that could become the
(14:03):
queen, the king, I'm sorry, theking or the Emperor afterwards.
So here we have elevated oneportion of human beings to that
level, and all else are notcounted. So when we look at
(14:23):
this, we we see that when youwere talking about even using
the term Abrahamic, right?
Abraham, we're coming fromAbraham. Why? When was the last
time anyone, and I'm going tosay anyone on this earth ever
saw a man give birth toanything? They just can't it's
(14:45):
just not humanly possible, oreven, I'm sorry to say, divinely
possible. So when we give thiscredit of creation. Vision. And
we say these things to them, Iactually have to step back, step
back, and little laugh a littlebit. The Father has given all
(15:06):
the congratulations. She did,all the work. He's getting all
the congratulations. And then hefeels this is something now
somebody has created in myimage, so he's taking on that
idea also. So I think this is sosignificant, it from the
spiritual point of view that wecan't assume everything that's
(15:31):
said in these scriptures isoriginally, right? And
originally said, because it'sbeen translated, retranslated
and retranslated so many times,and we have that. So here we are
again. We're trying to defendwomen. I think I'm getting a
(15:57):
little tired of it. I thinkwomen just have to be and let's
not try to defend them, I think.
And we've talked about thisbefore, a lot of the issue comes
from the way the scripturesdescribe us. I think I mentioned
(16:18):
this at some point. When I waswriting the secret power of
yoga, I tried to find somepositive quotes from these
different scriptures aboutwomen, and what I found mostly
is that there were eitherprostitutes or there were barren
And nothing that glorified notonly women, but motherhood, the
(16:42):
ability to give birth to anotherhuman being that comes out of
your body alive, I don't thinkwe stop and realize how amazing
that is on a regular basis. Sohere we are. On one hand, we're
saying, Oh, this is an amazingthing birth, and on the other
(17:02):
hand, we're saying, Yeah, well,it's not quite as good as what
the men do.
Kamala Rose (17:08):
That's yeah, considering the considering
creation and the process ofcreation and the enormous
inequity. I'll remind ourlisteners that at the Seneca
Falls convention, it was quiteradical, because at that time,
(17:31):
women were not allowed to speakin public. So that's a good
thing to remember that therehave been times when something
like this podcast would havebeen never happened outside of
the law, but women daring toreinterpret scripture, what a
(17:56):
radical proposition. What doesit mean to us? What does it mean
to you? Nishula, a femininelens, a feminine voice.
Nischala Joy Devi (18:05):
You know, when you said that just now,
something in me just kind ofrecoiled, because I don't think
we're reinterpreting anything. Ithink we're interpreting it. I
think it's just going back towhat we know as truth, that all
beings are equal. We're all bornthat way. What we do with it
(18:28):
afterwards is changed, but we'reall that, whether what color,
what shape, what gender, all ofthat, it doesn't matter, because
the same spirit is there. And Ithink if we look at the Bibles
and the spiritual books and theSeneca Falls convention, what it
was trying to do, it was justtrying to get a place holder.
(18:52):
Let's get let's bring thesewomen back in. And they don't
have to be prostitutes, theydon't have to be barren. They
can be pillars of the communitylike the men are. They can be
deciding things like the men do,and I that was the purpose of
it. But when you say how longago it was, it's so sad how
(19:16):
little has really happened inthat time. And you know, when I
talk to someone who's younger,they don't know about this, and
they don't know about how hardwe fought for the rights of
women to vote, to be able totake care of their own bodies
and to see it then wiped away,is very, very demeaning to us,
(19:42):
demeaning to us. Because whatmakes anyone superior to the
other? Like I was just talkingand I said, you know, I have a
really great ability to do this,but that doesn't mean I can do
everything to somebody else cando so. Something that I can't
do. And I think this is, this isthe way of the world to
(20:05):
appreciate others talents, andthat Seneca Falls convention,
the fact that there were so manyabolitionists there, the fact
that they saw that as also aform of slavery, which it was,
is not was keeping money frompeople, keeping them uneducated.
(20:32):
Call it what you want. It's,it's the same. They didn't have
the freedom. You see, if we canlook at these stories, I read a
lot of historical novels, andyou see you said, Why didn't she
leave Why didn't she just leavehim? And you realize she
couldn't. She had no education,she had no money, she she had no
(20:54):
place to go. So here we see thisagain and again and to I wish
they had a holiday thatcelebrated that national that
convention. Maybe someday wewill, finally, we got a holiday
of Juneteenth, so maybe therewill be something for the women
too. I don't know. I'm hoping
Kamala Rose (21:16):
recognizing the limitation of participation in
society, that this equals thatto give equal rights, to give
civil rights, to give a vote isto give a voice. And I think to
(21:37):
me, the feminine perspective isimportant in the the dialog. On
spirituality, if that's what wewant to call this, in our in our
ongoing dialog on the Gita, Ireally feel that a woman's
perspective is is different forso many of the reasons that
(21:57):
you've brought up the idea ofhaving of giving birth, the
potential to give birth, theperspective of someone who knows
what it feels like to not be theprimary player or agent, speaks
to so many people thatexperience life on the margins,
(22:24):
who are our secondarycharacters, who exist in
relationship to other people. Ithink this is really what a
woman's perspective brings. Issomeone who is not the hero, who
is not striving for anindividual win and victory.
(22:48):
We're hearing from a voice thatknows what it means to be in
relationship and in deepconnection to others. And I
would argue that this isrealistic to a lot of the people
on planet Earth are not comingfrom the vantage point, the
(23:11):
point of view of the hero orthat person who has the
opportunity to excel in thatway. I also was watching a
historical drama, and this wasfrom the 1930s and one of the
(23:32):
daughters says, but I really,really want to go and learn. And
the father says, school is forboys, yep, end of matter,
Nischala Joy Devi (23:42):
yep, and his, his word is law.
Kamala Rose (23:47):
That was the end of the discussion. School is for
boys,
Nischala Joy Devi (23:50):
yep, yep, and look what they did to us for
dress. You talk about thesetimes with these big hoop skirts
and the big bustles in the back,we could hardly move. I mean,
it's like, it's like they foot,they bound the feet in China of
(24:13):
women, because somehow thatturned men on, and then they
couldn't get away. I mean, thesethings that they're doing that's
accepted. I don't, I don'tunderstand the acceptance of it,
that if there's enoughpopulation, why don't we do
something? Is it fear, again, wethis keeps coming up. Is it fear
(24:38):
of what they are going to andcan do to us, or are we afraid
of our own power as women? Ithink that's the other thing we
have to look at. Why aren't westepping up when we have the
chance? Yes, some do, but manydon't. They still follow their
(24:59):
husbands. They. Still don'tthink that they're worthy of
getting an education. They'renot, still not contributing to
society at large. They'reraising the children, which is a
very important thing to do. Buta lot of women, that's not the
only thing they want to do. Theywant to contribute on a larger
scale. You know, it'sinteresting, some years ago, my
(25:23):
literary agent used to sendChristmas cards every year to
everybody and and then shestarted pulling back, and she
wrote to us, and she said, Youknow, I'd rather take that money
and give it to women asliteracy, because when women are
(25:44):
literate, the whole familybecomes literate. She teaches
everybody. And when she when Iread that, that note that she
had written, I thought tomyself, How true is that? How
true is that you really youlearn something, and you come
home and you share that withyour children, and then they
(26:06):
become educated. So there,there's a part that women and
men are different. I knowsometimes we want to think we're
not, and on the spiritual level,we're not we're the same, we're
not different, but on the otherlevels, we are. We're different,
(26:27):
not necessarily better or worse,but different. We have different
roles. We have different ways ofexpressing the roles. Even if we
move into a more of a masculinerole, we express it differently.
I saw this when suddenly allthese women started to be
accepted. Not that they wentthey accepted to medical school,
(26:47):
because for a long time therewas a quota. You couldn't have
very many women. First of all,there wasn't any and then they
had a quota. So maybe 10 womenper class were invited in. And
once you saw these womenstarting to take over to now
there's 52 53% of all themedical students are women. You
(27:10):
start to see the change inmedicine. You start to see the
things that happen. You start tosee someone actually listening
to you, not just treating you.
And it will continue to change,because now women are not taught
by men in medical schoolanymore. There's now medical
school professors that arewomen. So the whole idea of
(27:33):
compassion and listening iscoming back. We need to bring it
back in all the professions, notjust medicine.
Kamala Rose (27:47):
One profession that women are still sorely, sorely
underrepresented in is oncommentary on religious
scripture. Yes, right, women inclergy is a rare, rare occasion,
and many religions still havethat glass ceiling of non
(28:09):
admittance into the into thepriesthood, into further
ordination and for for women whoeven would be interested in that
role, I think we shouldunderstand it as as an issue,
(28:30):
that there is a ceiling onadvancement spiritually as well.
It means that you don't get thetraining right. You are not
allowed to learn at that level,right? Right? That's what the
glass ceiling means. It doesn'tmean that you can't give
communion on Sunday, but youalso do not have access to the
(28:51):
more advanced levels of practiceand teaching, right? This has
been an area where Western womenhave fought back, and I was
reminded of that wonderful quotefrom the Dalai Lama who said the
Western women are going to getus out of this mess. Yeah, yeah,
(29:13):
right. And Tibetan Buddhism isone area that has had a huge
influx of Western women whohave, who have been empowered
and emboldened by the women'smovement and feel called to
question. You know, many of ourlisteners might not know, but in
(29:37):
traditional, many traditionalEastern practices, it's men
only, and the room is filledwith men and women. Can sit in
another room, probably cannotlisten to a more advanced
teaching because of the cut offand ordination. So right here's.
(30:00):
Here's us here for in 2025discussing the Bhagavad Gita,
which is a text that also has arestriction to be interpreted by
men, traditionally by Brahminpriests, women are not allowed
to traditionally interpret theBhagavad Gita in traditional
(30:22):
Vedic society. But since we arehere, we're Western women. We're
considered outside of theSanskrit culture. We're we're
called malachas, right? We'renot inside the it's a, it's a
word for non Indian, nonsanskritists. We're already
(30:44):
outside of the tradition. Sohere we are discussing this
ancient battlefield text, andwe've had so many conversations.
We've worked hard on ourtranslations, and we've worked
hard to continue this dialog forthe benefit of the yoga
(31:07):
community, which is really madeup predominantly of Western
women. So here we are. NishchalaDevi, what do you find is one
verse that we can read toempower women.
Nischala Joy Devi (31:25):
Well, I think, I think we, it all has to
be tweaked a little bit. We,first of all, I think gender has
to be taken out of Scripture.
And I try to use the word onerather than he or she, because
we're now dealing with nonbinary people. We're dealing
(31:47):
with all kinds of people thathave to be included. And I think
that's the other thing women do.
Women are inclusive. We includeso you know, when you were
talking, I had I was smiling,which people can't see, but um,
(32:09):
because I think this is thereason that so many women went
to Eastern religion. Went tothat because it's not something
that we have from birth, that wewere taught and brought to
church or synagogue or temple orwhatever. We were brought to
mosque. This is something thatwe took on as adults with an
(32:34):
adult mind to be able to look atit. And I must say, with all the
prejudices against women and allthe restrictions, I was actually
initiated into a very masculineorder, and there were half
(32:56):
women, and when we were takeneven to the Shankaracharya to
see he he looked at first women,and then he said, aha, when you
are a Sannyasi, when yourenunciate, there's no gender.
You're the sexless self. And Ithink that's where we have to
get to more with all this takingthat, that gender out of it, and
(33:24):
just remembering that the theessence of who we are doesn't
have a gender. There's no sexwith it. There's, there's, it's
just pure energy, pure light.
It's neither masculine norfeminine. Just like the moon we
we want to call it masculine orfeminine. It's an either it
doesn't reproduce itself. Youknow, that's a function of
(33:48):
reproduction that you have todecide if it's male female. Once
you get to the spirit, it's notso what we were looking at
before,
Kamala Rose (34:01):
I'll just add that.
Sorry, yes, I'll just add that,right, that idea of gender as
more an outer feature and notreally part of the subject that
we're reading, the Gita toconsider, which is the
transcendent, spiritual aspect.
(34:24):
So I, for me, the distinctionhere is between religion that
deals with the rules and laws ofgoverning people under a
religious belief, right, andthen to make, to make a
distinction betweenspirituality, which is inherent
in every living thing, in everyliving being, a completely
(34:48):
different experience. So aswe're reading the Bhagavad Gita
and we're taking the shlokas tointo a spiritual. Meaning
something that's meaningful tothe to both of us as long time
practitioners, long timemeditators, both ordained in our
(35:11):
traditions and spending a lot oftime with births and deaths and
rites and rituals and the thingsthat ordained people are
concerned with right the the theworkings of the spiritual life,
but right this, this idea of therestrictions of religion as they
(35:31):
apply to gender, I think, isthis is one important dialog to
have and to Be able to discernthe deeper spiritual message
that does always apply toeveryone, whether we're reading
the Old and New Testament orwe're reading the Bhagavad Gita
(35:52):
here. So anyway, I just thatthat really, that really comes
to mind as a distinction betweensomething that's not not so much
a female centric thing, butbelongs to everyone.
Spirituality belongs toeveryone, but religion belongs
to men.
Nischala Joy Devi (36:14):
Interesting, yeah, when we see my thing is
that trickle down. I feel like alot of the problems started from
the books, the scriptures. Andwhen it's given in a Scripture,
(36:35):
we even use the expression, thisis law. This is the way it is.
And there's no questioning.
We've been taught not toquestion it. So what happens? It
becomes law, and it becomes thelaw of the land, and it also
becomes the way we are treated.
When I think of that, I alwayslaugh, because in India, the
(36:59):
cows are sacred. If there's acow crossing the street, all
traffic stops, all pedestriantraffic stops, well, vehicular
traffic stops, but it's okay tobeat your wife or your child, so
(37:21):
I think things need to berealigned. If I can use a very
gentle phrase for somethingthat's not gentle at all, and it
gets back to you and I, Kamala,belonging to yoga, gives back
because we don't want to see thewomen treated like that anymore.
(37:42):
We want the women to have a say.
We want them to have aneducation. We want them to have
money, so that money bringspower. But if you think of that
ridiculousness of taking care ofa cow, but not a woman, not that
a cow shouldn't be taken careof, of course it should. It
serves them, it gives them food.
(38:02):
And they're they're magnificentanimals. But what about women?
She also gives them food and hastheir children and takes care of
them and washes their clothesand does all those things, and
in the Western world, brings inas much, if not more money, than
he does. Where is that? So, asyou asked me a few minutes ago
(38:29):
about a sloka And in chapternine, and those of you that are
enjoying us going through theGita as hopefully, as much as we
are, we're having a great timewith it. It may seem slow and it
may seem like we're not. When ischapter nine going to happen?
(38:51):
When are we going to get there?
But we want to really have youunderstand this, not just read
it through and and move on, butto really take it into your life
and see how it affects you as awoman in today's world. So this
is chapter nine, sloka 32 and itsays, No matter your birth,
(39:16):
race, gender or caste, even ifyou are scorned by others, if
you take refuge in Me, thencertainly you will chain the
supreme goal. I think theyshould have put that number one,
(39:39):
sloka, why bury it back inchapter nine? Because that way,
when you pick up the Gita, youfeel like you're in it. This is
also talking to you, not justthe person sitting next to you
who happens to but. Animal, amale body, we need to understand
(40:00):
there was a beautiful poem thatSwami Vivekananda. We talked
about him before he was the onethat really brought yoga to the
United States in 1893 theparliament religions. He he
wrote many songs, many poems. Hewas a poet, and one of them, he
(40:23):
says, no birth, no death, nocast. Have I Right? No gender,
nothing. This is, this is whatthe Spirit is, no, death, no
birth, no death, no cast. Have Ifather, mother? Have I none? I
am spirit. I am spirit. I amspirit. And that's really what
(40:50):
we're talking about here. Ithink the only hope of peace and
joy and love in this world isgoing to the spiritual level, as
long as we stay on the level ofmale, female, white, black,
Indian, non Indian, EasternAsian, this and that, we're
(41:12):
always going to be fighting witheach other, because We can't
appreciate the differences. Weonly see the differences. But
doing this, moving to thatlevel, we all become one.
Kamala Rose (41:29):
I think you're so right to choose 932, as an
important verse that although tous moderns, right? It does sound
like confronting. Here's anothertranslation, those who are
considered low birth, right?
This is the or come from evilwombs say some translations,
(41:52):
right? It still is saying thateveryone is equal. Everyone is
equal. And for a religious andspiritual text to make a
declaration of equality in thisway is significant, and it is a
real strength of the BhagavadGita, is that it does lend
(42:14):
itself to an equality thatKrishna is speaking here about
bhakti, that in the devotionalspirit we are, we are all equal
in the eyes of the Divine. Sohere is we're getting ready to
(42:35):
wrap up. Right? What is onething that we can leave our
listeners with, right? This isour one year anniversary, and we
are. We've continued. We'restill recording. So I hope our
listeners, I hope you stay tunedwith us. But what is one
practice or question that we canleave our listeners with
Nischala Joy Devi (43:04):
it's power.
Don't be afraid of your ownpower. Show it in a benevolent
way. Show it with love wrappedaround love. And I think that
will change the world. Don't letanybody demean you in any way,
spiritually, mentally,emotionally or physically, and
always remember that you're notalone. Women have a sisterhood.
(43:29):
There's something there. There'sa power that we're there for
each other, and hold on to that,
Kamala Rose (43:41):
to claim our power to use our voices and to trust
each other. I'd like to like,I'd love to see more leaning
into trusting and supportingeach other, especially in the
yoga community, as we're holdingon in a rare moment of time to
(44:03):
something very sacred, and so Ihope you'll continue to listen
and learn more about the deeptradition of yoga and what it
has to offer us in the Modernworld. Thanks for being with us.
Namaste. Namaste.
Lilavati Eberle (44:25):
Thank you for joining us for a women's Gita
with nisjla Joy Devi and Kamalarose. We would like to express
our gratitude for the ongoingsupport for a women's Gita
podcast and book from yoga givesback a non profit organization
dedicated to the underservedwomen and children of India.
Please join us again for ournext episode coming soon.
(44:49):
Namaste. You.
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