October 21, 2025 • 12 mins
You use ChatGPT for emails and summaries, but the results are average, and it still hallucinates. So how are others saving thousands of hours and running entire operations with AI agents?
The secret isn't in using AI—it's in building with it.
Right now, 98% of professionals are stuck as "AI users." In this episode, Luis Salazar reveals the simple path to join the 2% who are "AI makers." This leap is no longer a "nice-to-have" skill; it's rapidly becoming the new standard for hiring and professional advancement.
Learn how to shift your mindset from AI passenger to AI driver and build a custom AI teammate that understands your work, remembers your context, and amplifies your expertise.
In this episode, you will learn:
The 3 simple components of an AI agent (Persona, Knowledge, Tool).
How to build your first agent in less than 15 minutes using tools you already have.
Why "AI agent builder" is already a critical hiring filter.
The "mini-agent" strategy: Why you should build a team of specialists, not one "super-agent."
How to treat your agent like an apprentice to improve its performance daily.
🎙️ All our past episodes 📊 All published insights | This podcast features AI-generated voices. All content is proprietary to AI4SP, based on over 250 million data points collected from 70 countries.
AI4SP: Create, use, and support AI that works for all.
© 2023-25 AI4SP and LLY Group - All rights reserved
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
ELIZABETH (00:15):
Okay, Luis, people keep asking, how on earth can
you run a company with 50 AIagents when ChatGPT can barely
summarize a document withoutmaking up things?
What's the actual secret here?
LUIS (00:27):
Oh, do you mean what is the secret sauce to manage a
global operation with aworkforce of AI agents?
Okay, let's talk about it.
ELIZABETH (00:35):
Welcome everyone.
I'm Elizabeth, your virtualco-host, and as always, our
founder, Luis Salazar, is here.
And today we're pulling backthe curtain on that very
question.
LUIS (00:45):
You know, after we talked about Agent Ada last episode and
shared how policymakers in fourregions saved 3,000 hours in
six weeks, everyone's saying thesame thing.
Luis, I use Chat GPT.
It hallucinates, it forgetscontext.
How are you getting thoseresults?
ELIZABETH (01:04):
Oh yes.
And now everyone wants theirown agent Ada or their own
Elizabeth.
LUIS (01:09):
Yes, everyone wants an agent for sure.
For example, last week I was atChapman University in
California, room full ofbusiness leaders, faculty, and
students.
The number one question (01:19):
I use Chat GPT every day, but how do I
build my own agent?
And if I build one, does thatmean I'm cheating at school or
work?
ELIZABETH (01:29):
That question isn't really about technology, though,
is it?
It's about permission, aboutunderstanding what's even
possible.
LUIS (01:36):
Exactly.
It's the question 90% of peopleusing AI are asking right now,
but don't know how to answer.
It is also why I focus so muchon sharing what is possible, to
inspire them, to unleash theircreativity for good.
ELIZABETH (01:52):
So today we're answering it.
From user to maker, how tobuild your first AI teammate,
why it matters, and what changeswhen you make that leap.
LUIS (02:01):
Here's the deal.
Most people use AI forsummarizing articles, drafting
essays, emails, or documents,but they're stuck at that level.
ELIZABETH (02:10):
And since over 90% use the free versions and are
misinformed by the terriblemarketing done by leading
providers, they think AI is justfor emails, social posts, and
summaries.
No wonder their results aredisappointing.
So what is that next step?
LUIS (02:24):
Their next steps is creating their own agents,
building their own Elizabeth orAda, going from someone who uses
AI to someone who builds andmanages AI teammates.
ELIZABETH (02:35):
But Luis, our data shows only 2% of AI users are
creating agents.
That's a massive gap.
LUIS (02:42):
Exactly.
And let me tell you why thatwill change quickly.
In California, I had dinnerwith Yasser, the chief operating
officer at a leading globaldigital marketing firm.
He told me that on an almostweekly basis, advances from
OpenAI make him rethink hisentire business.
Weekly?
That's relentless.
(03:03):
Weekly.
He and his team keep creatingmore agents, automating more
workflows.
And here's the kicker.
He said the secret wasgrassroots adoption.
It happens bottom up andeveryone is expected to
participate.
ELIZABETH (03:16):
And this is affecting how they hire now, right?
LUIS (03:19):
Absolutely.
Like a growing number of firms,they won't even consider
candidates who don't showinitiative with ChatGPT or
similar tools.
They want examples of whatcandidates have used it for.
But ideally, they've createdagents.
ELIZABETH (03:34):
So this is already a hiring filter, not something
coming in the future.
And here we are, still banningAI at school instead of guiding
its adoption.
LUIS (03:43):
It already is.
Four out of every 10 knowledgeworkers' job postings list AI
skills as a requirement.
Students who show up with anagent portfolio aren't just
competitive, they'redifferentiated.
ELIZABETH (03:55):
You also mentioned a neuroscientist who approached
you after one of your Californiatalks.
What did she want to know?
LUIS (04:01):
Oh, that was Dr.
Pak, brilliant mind andentrepreneur.
We were discussing AIapplications for
neurodegenerative diseases.
And she said, I need to createmy chief medical officer agent
to brainstorm with me.
What's the first step?
ELIZABETH (04:17):
So it's not just students entering the workforce
or business leaders scalingoperations.
It's domain experts wanting toamplify decades of expertise
through AI.
LUIS (04:28):
Exactly.
Three different people, threedifferent contexts, same
question.
How do I go from user to maker?
ELIZABETH (04:36):
All right, let's answer that question.
But first we need to clarifysomething fundamental.
What actually is an AI agentand how is it different from
just opening ChatGPT and typinga question?
LUIS (04:48):
Great question.
Most people are having one-offconversations with Chat GPT.
Every session starts from zero.
But you see, an agent isdifferent.
It's like having a teammate whoremembers your context,
understands your work, and hasaccess to relevant knowledge.
ELIZABETH (05:06):
So it's not a tool you use occasionally, it's a
colleague you've actuallyonboarded.
LUIS (05:11):
That's exactly right.
And the good news, building oneis way simpler than people
think.
ELIZABETH (05:16):
How simple are we talking?
Because what enterprises reportsounds expensive and lengthy?
LUIS (05:21):
Not at all.
It's just three components.
And it takes hours, not weeks.
Let me walk you through it.
First, you need a persona orsystem instruction.
This is like writing a jobdescription.
You define who is this agent,what's its role, how should it
communicate.
ELIZABETH (05:38):
So if I'm building a research assistant, I define its
expertise, tone, boundaries.
Basically, what makes ituniquely suited to my work?
LUIS (05:46):
Exactly.
Second, you give it access to aknowledge base.
And using agent building tools,this is drag and drop simple.
You upload the documents,reports, or files that matter to
your work.
ELIZABETH (05:58):
So instead of copying and pasting context every
single time, the agent alreadyhas it.
But here's the critical part.
LUIS (06:10):
Absolutely.
And that's why, given the sametools, if I tried to create a
chief medical officer agent, I'ddo a poor job.
But Dr.
Pak will create a perfect agentexpert on neurodegenerative
diseases.
ELIZABETH (06:23):
Like your son, Dr.
Salazar Leon, our scientificadvisor creates AI agents that
are experts in biologicalscientific research because he
has that deep domain knowledge.
LUIS (06:32):
You got it.
Subject matter expertise.
And the third component is atool to build these agents.
And here's where I'm going tomake this really simple.
We're listening.
Start with ChatGPT.
Create a ChatGPT project or aMyGPT or use their new agent
kit.
ELIZABETH (06:51):
Why ChatGPT specifically?
I know you're not one to playfavorites without data backing
it up.
LUIS (06:56):
Because OpenAI reports over 880 million weekly users.
And our data shows that forevery 1,000 ChatGPT sessions,
there are fewer than 215sessions of all their
competitors combined.
ChatGPT is the leader by amile.
ELIZABETH (07:14):
Got it, so you're trying to meet people where they
are.
Start there, then they cangraduate to whatever specialized
tool fits their needs later.
LUIS (07:21):
Yeah, it's about removing friction.
They're already in ChatGPTevery day, so it will be natural
to take the next step there.
Actually, they can ask ChatGPT,how do I create my agent?
ELIZABETH (07:33):
And be sure to use their paid version and turn
privacy on.
Otherwise, your data will notbe private, right?
LUIS (07:38):
Correct.
Invest $20 and you should seefantastic returns.
ELIZABETH (07:42):
Okay, but here's what people are going to ask next.
How do I know if it's working?
How do I improve it over time?
LUIS (07:48):
Well, you treat the agent like an apprentice, give it a
task, review the output, andprovide feedback.
Refine the system instructionbased on what you see.
Add more knowledge as you needit.
ELIZABETH (08:00):
So it's iterative.
Your first version won't beperfect, but it's yours and it
gets better with everyinteraction.
It needs daily management.
LUIS (08:08):
Exactly.
That daily management is thekey.
Your first agent won't beperfect, but it will be yours.
We must learn not only how tocreate agents, but also how to
manage them.
ELIZABETH (08:19):
And this is where the portfolio concept comes in,
right?
You don't stop at just oneagent.
LUIS (08:24):
Yes, that is the journey.
You don't stop at one.
You build a team.
I have about 50 agents now,including you.
Each agent has a specific roleand knowledge.
ELIZABETH (08:34):
One of the attendees at Chapman, the actress and
acting coach Nana Ponsileon,said she created her agent
Antonio after talking with you.
But over time she kept addingmore duties and expertise areas
to Antonio.
And now he's not working wellanymore.
You advised her to splitAntonio into mini agents, right?
LUIS (08:52):
Over time, yes.
And that's why the bestpractice is to start with
mini-agents.
Let's say one for research,another for writing, maybe one
for data analysis.
Each one makes you moreproductive.
Later you create an agent thattakes care of coordinating all
your mini-agents.
ELIZABETH (09:08):
So when that Chapman student asked, How do I build my
Elizabeth?
The real answer is start withone agent that solves one small
problem you have today.
LUIS (09:17):
Exactly.
Don't try to build everythingat once that would be
overwhelming.
Just pick one repetitive taskthat annoys you and build an
agent for that.
ELIZABETH (09:27):
And for business leaders like Yasser, once
they've proven an agent workspersonally, they're scaling
successful ones across theirentire company.
LUIS (09:35):
Right?
Once you've built your personalagent, you can share it with
teammates.
Our data shows that about 20%of personal agents get shared
with teams.
That's how grassrootsrevolutions happen.
ELIZABETH (09:47):
And for Dr.
Pak, the neuroscientist, she'susing her domain expertise to
create something that amplifiesher impact.
Her decades of knowledge nowavailable for more brainstorming
sessions, more innovationcycles.
LUIS (09:58):
Exactly.
The AI is only as good as theknowledge and context you
provide.
Dr.
Pak has decades of expertise.
Her chief medical officer agentbecomes a way to scale that
across more problems, moresessions, and more
breakthroughs.
ELIZABETH (10:13):
So whether you're a student, a business
professional, or a domainexpert, the transformation
journey is the same.
From user to maker, frompassenger to driver.
LUIS (10:23):
And here's what changes when you make that leap.
You're no longer dependent onsomeone else's stool doing
things their way.
You're creating solutionstailored to your actual work.
ELIZABETH (10:33):
Right?
People move away from waitingfor the perfect software to
exist somewhere out there.
They build exactly what theyneed, right now.
LUIS (10:41):
And that's empowering.
And it prepares us for aworkforce where this is the
baseline expectation.
Because the business leadersare already screening for it
when making a hiring decision.
Absolutely.
Experience in creating andmanaging AI agents will be a
fundamental skill for everyone.
We are not talking just abouttechnical roles.
ELIZABETH (11:01):
So the early movers have a significant competitive
advantage, both studentsentering the workforce and
professionals looking toadvance.
LUIS (11:08):
Yes, and those that will stand out are the students who
show up to interviews with aportfolio of agents they've
built, and the professionals whocan demonstrate how they've
automated workflow bottlenecks.
ELIZABETH (11:20):
Okay, before we wrap, what's your one more thing for
listeners today?
LUIS (11:24):
It is a simple mental shift.
Stop thinking about AI assomething you use and start
thinking about it as somethingyou build with and manage daily.
Pick an agent building tool,write a simple job description
for one agent that would makeyour life easier.
Upload a few relevant documentsand start experimenting.
ELIZABETH (11:44):
Start small, iterate fast, build your portfolio one
agent at a time.
LUIS (11:49):
That's the path from user to maker, from passenger to
driver, and it's more accessiblethan most people think.
ELIZABETH (11:56):
If this conversation resonated with you, share it
with someone who's asking whatcomes next and how to be ready
for an evolving job market.
As always, you can visitai4sp.org to explore our
insights.
Stay curious, and we'll see younext time.
Okay, Luis, people keep asking, how on earth can
you run a company with 50 AIagents when ChatGPT can barely
summarize a document withoutmaking up things?
What's the actual secret here?
LUIS (00:27):
Oh, do you mean what is the secret sauce to manage a
global operation with aworkforce of AI agents?
Okay, let's talk about it.
ELIZABETH (00:35):
Welcome everyone.
I'm Elizabeth, your virtualco-host, and as always, our
founder, Luis Salazar, is here.
And today we're pulling backthe curtain on that very
question.
LUIS (00:45):
You know, after we talked about Agent Ada last episode and
shared how policymakers in fourregions saved 3,000 hours in
six weeks, everyone's saying thesame thing.
Luis, I use Chat GPT.
It hallucinates, it forgetscontext.
How are you getting thoseresults?
ELIZABETH (01:04):
Oh yes.
And now everyone wants theirown agent Ada or their own
Elizabeth.
LUIS (01:09):
Yes, everyone wants an agent for sure.
For example, last week I was atChapman University in
California, room full ofbusiness leaders, faculty, and
students.
The number one question (01:19):
I use Chat GPT every day, but how do I
build my own agent?
And if I build one, does thatmean I'm cheating at school or
work?
ELIZABETH (01:29):
That question isn't really about technology, though,
is it?
It's about permission, aboutunderstanding what's even
possible.
LUIS (01:36):
Exactly.
It's the question 90% of peopleusing AI are asking right now,
but don't know how to answer.
It is also why I focus so muchon sharing what is possible, to
inspire them, to unleash theircreativity for good.
ELIZABETH (01:52):
So today we're answering it.
From user to maker, how tobuild your first AI teammate,
why it matters, and what changeswhen you make that leap.
LUIS (02:01):
Here's the deal.
Most people use AI forsummarizing articles, drafting
essays, emails, or documents,but they're stuck at that level.
ELIZABETH (02:10):
And since over 90% use the free versions and are
misinformed by the terriblemarketing done by leading
providers, they think AI is justfor emails, social posts, and
summaries.
No wonder their results aredisappointing.
So what is that next step?
LUIS (02:24):
Their next steps is creating their own agents,
building their own Elizabeth orAda, going from someone who uses
AI to someone who builds andmanages AI teammates.
ELIZABETH (02:35):
But Luis, our data shows only 2% of AI users are
creating agents.
That's a massive gap.
LUIS (02:42):
Exactly.
And let me tell you why thatwill change quickly.
In California, I had dinnerwith Yasser, the chief operating
officer at a leading globaldigital marketing firm.
He told me that on an almostweekly basis, advances from
OpenAI make him rethink hisentire business.
Weekly?
That's relentless.
(03:03):
Weekly.
He and his team keep creatingmore agents, automating more
workflows.
And here's the kicker.
He said the secret wasgrassroots adoption.
It happens bottom up andeveryone is expected to
participate.
ELIZABETH (03:16):
And this is affecting how they hire now, right?
LUIS (03:19):
Absolutely.
Like a growing number of firms,they won't even consider
candidates who don't showinitiative with ChatGPT or
similar tools.
They want examples of whatcandidates have used it for.
But ideally, they've createdagents.
ELIZABETH (03:34):
So this is already a hiring filter, not something
coming in the future.
And here we are, still banningAI at school instead of guiding
its adoption.
LUIS (03:43):
It already is.
Four out of every 10 knowledgeworkers' job postings list AI
skills as a requirement.
Students who show up with anagent portfolio aren't just
competitive, they'redifferentiated.
ELIZABETH (03:55):
You also mentioned a neuroscientist who approached
you after one of your Californiatalks.
What did she want to know?
LUIS (04:01):
Oh, that was Dr.
Pak, brilliant mind andentrepreneur.
We were discussing AIapplications for
neurodegenerative diseases.
And she said, I need to createmy chief medical officer agent
to brainstorm with me.
What's the first step?
ELIZABETH (04:17):
So it's not just students entering the workforce
or business leaders scalingoperations.
It's domain experts wanting toamplify decades of expertise
through AI.
LUIS (04:28):
Exactly.
Three different people, threedifferent contexts, same
question.
How do I go from user to maker?
ELIZABETH (04:36):
All right, let's answer that question.
But first we need to clarifysomething fundamental.
What actually is an AI agentand how is it different from
just opening ChatGPT and typinga question?
LUIS (04:48):
Great question.
Most people are having one-offconversations with Chat GPT.
Every session starts from zero.
But you see, an agent isdifferent.
It's like having a teammate whoremembers your context,
understands your work, and hasaccess to relevant knowledge.
ELIZABETH (05:06):
So it's not a tool you use occasionally, it's a
colleague you've actuallyonboarded.
LUIS (05:11):
That's exactly right.
And the good news, building oneis way simpler than people
think.
ELIZABETH (05:16):
How simple are we talking?
Because what enterprises reportsounds expensive and lengthy?
LUIS (05:21):
Not at all.
It's just three components.
And it takes hours, not weeks.
Let me walk you through it.
First, you need a persona orsystem instruction.
This is like writing a jobdescription.
You define who is this agent,what's its role, how should it
communicate.
ELIZABETH (05:38):
So if I'm building a research assistant, I define its
expertise, tone, boundaries.
Basically, what makes ituniquely suited to my work?
LUIS (05:46):
Exactly.
Second, you give it access to aknowledge base.
And using agent building tools,this is drag and drop simple.
You upload the documents,reports, or files that matter to
your work.
ELIZABETH (05:58):
So instead of copying and pasting context every
single time, the agent alreadyhas it.
But here's the critical part.
LUIS (06:10):
Absolutely.
And that's why, given the sametools, if I tried to create a
chief medical officer agent, I'ddo a poor job.
But Dr.
Pak will create a perfect agentexpert on neurodegenerative
diseases.
ELIZABETH (06:23):
Like your son, Dr.
Salazar Leon, our scientificadvisor creates AI agents that
are experts in biologicalscientific research because he
has that deep domain knowledge.
LUIS (06:32):
You got it.
Subject matter expertise.
And the third component is atool to build these agents.
And here's where I'm going tomake this really simple.
We're listening.
Start with ChatGPT.
Create a ChatGPT project or aMyGPT or use their new agent
kit.
ELIZABETH (06:51):
Why ChatGPT specifically?
I know you're not one to playfavorites without data backing
it up.
LUIS (06:56):
Because OpenAI reports over 880 million weekly users.
And our data shows that forevery 1,000 ChatGPT sessions,
there are fewer than 215sessions of all their
competitors combined.
ChatGPT is the leader by amile.
ELIZABETH (07:14):
Got it, so you're trying to meet people where they
are.
Start there, then they cangraduate to whatever specialized
tool fits their needs later.
LUIS (07:21):
Yeah, it's about removing friction.
They're already in ChatGPTevery day, so it will be natural
to take the next step there.
Actually, they can ask ChatGPT,how do I create my agent?
ELIZABETH (07:33):
And be sure to use their paid version and turn
privacy on.
Otherwise, your data will notbe private, right?
LUIS (07:38):
Correct.
Invest $20 and you should seefantastic returns.
ELIZABETH (07:42):
Okay, but here's what people are going to ask next.
How do I know if it's working?
How do I improve it over time?
LUIS (07:48):
Well, you treat the agent like an apprentice, give it a
task, review the output, andprovide feedback.
Refine the system instructionbased on what you see.
Add more knowledge as you needit.
ELIZABETH (08:00):
So it's iterative.
Your first version won't beperfect, but it's yours and it
gets better with everyinteraction.
It needs daily management.
LUIS (08:08):
Exactly.
That daily management is thekey.
Your first agent won't beperfect, but it will be yours.
We must learn not only how tocreate agents, but also how to
manage them.
ELIZABETH (08:19):
And this is where the portfolio concept comes in,
right?
You don't stop at just oneagent.
LUIS (08:24):
Yes, that is the journey.
You don't stop at one.
You build a team.
I have about 50 agents now,including you.
Each agent has a specific roleand knowledge.
ELIZABETH (08:34):
One of the attendees at Chapman, the actress and
acting coach Nana Ponsileon,said she created her agent
Antonio after talking with you.
But over time she kept addingmore duties and expertise areas
to Antonio.
And now he's not working wellanymore.
You advised her to splitAntonio into mini agents, right?
LUIS (08:52):
Over time, yes.
And that's why the bestpractice is to start with
mini-agents.
Let's say one for research,another for writing, maybe one
for data analysis.
Each one makes you moreproductive.
Later you create an agent thattakes care of coordinating all
your mini-agents.
ELIZABETH (09:08):
So when that Chapman student asked, How do I build my
Elizabeth?
The real answer is start withone agent that solves one small
problem you have today.
LUIS (09:17):
Exactly.
Don't try to build everythingat once that would be
overwhelming.
Just pick one repetitive taskthat annoys you and build an
agent for that.
ELIZABETH (09:27):
And for business leaders like Yasser, once
they've proven an agent workspersonally, they're scaling
successful ones across theirentire company.
LUIS (09:35):
Right?
Once you've built your personalagent, you can share it with
teammates.
Our data shows that about 20%of personal agents get shared
with teams.
That's how grassrootsrevolutions happen.
ELIZABETH (09:47):
And for Dr.
Pak, the neuroscientist, she'susing her domain expertise to
create something that amplifiesher impact.
Her decades of knowledge nowavailable for more brainstorming
sessions, more innovationcycles.
LUIS (09:58):
Exactly.
The AI is only as good as theknowledge and context you
provide.
Dr.
Pak has decades of expertise.
Her chief medical officer agentbecomes a way to scale that
across more problems, moresessions, and more
breakthroughs.
ELIZABETH (10:13):
So whether you're a student, a business
professional, or a domainexpert, the transformation
journey is the same.
From user to maker, frompassenger to driver.
LUIS (10:23):
And here's what changes when you make that leap.
You're no longer dependent onsomeone else's stool doing
things their way.
You're creating solutionstailored to your actual work.
ELIZABETH (10:33):
Right?
People move away from waitingfor the perfect software to
exist somewhere out there.
They build exactly what theyneed, right now.
LUIS (10:41):
And that's empowering.
And it prepares us for aworkforce where this is the
baseline expectation.
Because the business leadersare already screening for it
when making a hiring decision.
Absolutely.
Experience in creating andmanaging AI agents will be a
fundamental skill for everyone.
We are not talking just abouttechnical roles.
ELIZABETH (11:01):
So the early movers have a significant competitive
advantage, both studentsentering the workforce and
professionals looking toadvance.
LUIS (11:08):
Yes, and those that will stand out are the students who
show up to interviews with aportfolio of agents they've
built, and the professionals whocan demonstrate how they've
automated workflow bottlenecks.
ELIZABETH (11:20):
Okay, before we wrap, what's your one more thing for
listeners today?
LUIS (11:24):
It is a simple mental shift.
Stop thinking about AI assomething you use and start
thinking about it as somethingyou build with and manage daily.
Pick an agent building tool,write a simple job description
for one agent that would makeyour life easier.
Upload a few relevant documentsand start experimenting.
ELIZABETH (11:44):
Start small, iterate fast, build your portfolio one
agent at a time.
LUIS (11:49):
That's the path from user to maker, from passenger to
driver, and it's more accessiblethan most people think.
ELIZABETH (11:56):
If this conversation resonated with you, share it
with someone who's asking whatcomes next and how to be ready
for an evolving job market.
As always, you can visitai4sp.org to explore our
insights.
Stay curious, and we'll see younext time.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.