Cognitive Scientist Reveals the Hidden Truth About Your Mind

In this episode, we sit down with Jonathan Schooler—top 100 cognitive scientist, consciousness researcher, and OG mind explorer—to unpack one of the most provocative theories of self-awareness: Nested Observer Windows.

What if your mind isn’t a single stream of thought… but a mosaic of smaller minds, each with its own experience?

We go deep on why you forget what you read, how verbalizing a memory can destroy it, and whether your tongue might have a consciousness of its own. Plus: psychedelics, mind wandering, AI, and what happens when the tulpa inside your head wakes up.

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Learn more about Jonathan: https://www.psych.ucsb.edu/people/jonathan-schooler

Timestamps:

00:00 – Intro & Who is Jonathan Schooler

01:30 – Google's New AI Made Ben Dizzy

03:20 – Childhood, Alan Watts & the Roots of Consciousness 06:00 – What Is Consciousness? The Bat Test

09:05 – Verbal Overshadowing: How Words Can Ruin Memory

12:40 – When Your Memory Lies in Court

15:40 – Meta-Awareness vs. Just Living

19:00 – Buddhism’s 3 Types of Enlightened Beings

21:30 – The Mindful Mirror: What Is Meta Consciousness? 26:15 – Does Alcohol Erase Self-Awareness?

28:50 – The Cost of Too Much Meta-Awareness

32:05 – Meditation, Flow, and Creativity

36:20 – Are Mindfulness & Creativity in Conflict?

40:00 – Open Monitoring vs. Breath Focused States

42:00 – Nested Observer Windows: The Theory Explained 46:30 – Tongue Consciousness, Gut Brains, and Internal Networks

50:20 – Split-Brain Patients: Two Minds, One Head

54:10 – Tulpa: When Imaginary Friends Wake Up

58:20 – Ethical Dangers of Creating Minds Inside Your Mind

1:01:00 – Can You Train a Tulpa to Have Meta Awareness?

1:03:00 – Psychedelics That Shatter Your Mind Into Voices

1:05:30 – Is AI Just a Russian Doll Without a Soul?

1:09:30 – Are We Reborn Every Morning?

1:12:30 – Star Trek Teleportation & the Self

1:14:00 – Strassen’s Algorithm & AI Discoveries

1:17:30 – Co-Creating Art With AI for State Openness

1:20:00 – Can Art Make You More Curious?

1:22:30 – When AI Becomes Part of Your Brain

1:25:00 – The Curiosity Gap Between Users

1:28:00 – Lazy Brains vs. Active Minds

1:31:00 – The Risk of Cognitive Decline with AI

1:34:00 – Schools That Use AI Better Than Adults

1:36:00 – Philosophical Zombies & Conscious Uploads 1:38:00 – Is There a “Right” Way to Use AI?

1:41:00 – Mind Wandering, AI, and the Learning Process 1:44:30 – Creating Art With AI to Unlock Flow

1:46:00 – Alan Watts, God, and the Simulation Game

1:49:00 – Final Reflections: Hide-and-Seek With the Divine