A Psychic Childhood, Astral Travel & Spiritual Rebellion w/ Dan Arhakos

What happens when a child grows up talking to spirits, floating down stairs, and attending funerals for fun?

In this candid and powerful conversation, Dan Arhakos shares her experience growing up with heightened psychic sensitivity—from communicating with her deceased uncle at age four to regularly astral projecting in middle school. We talk about how early spiritual gifts are often misunderstood, suppressed, or pathologized—and how to reframe them as strengths.

This episode dives into what it means to be spiritually gifted as a child, how trauma and religion shape our perception of those gifts, and how we can create safer spaces for the next generation of intuitive kids. We also discuss grounding practices, the reality of spiritual burnout, and the beauty of finding your own path—even if it looks wildly different from what society expects.

Whether you're a parent, a practitioner, or someone navigating their own awakening, this conversation offers heartfelt insight and actionable wisdom

#psychicdevelopment #spiritcommunication #spiritualawakening #astralprojection #pastlives #childpsychic #mediumship #consciousness #podcast

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Timestamps:
00:43 Introduction
03:03 Dan's Early Experiences with the Deceased
06:11 High School: Spiritual Growth and Psychedelics
11:06 The Impact of Religion and Family Support
20:04 Witnessing Death and Understanding Life
29:26 Encouraging Children's Natural Development
33:49 Balancing Spirituality and Grounding
40:18 Reflecting on Childhood Experiences
46:11 Transforming Trauma into Growth
55:51 Connecting with Dan and Future Offerings

About the Guest:
Dan Arhakos is a psychic intuitive, teacher, and spiritual facilitator currently living in Peru. From a young age, Dan demonstrated profound extrasensory perception—including spontaneous spirit communication and out-of-body experiences—which eventually evolved into a grounded spiritual practice rooted in empowerment and personal sovereignty. Today, she offers private retreats, group retreats, virtual classes, 1-on-1 mentorships, and deep ceremonial experiences focused on deep personal transformation.

Guest Links:
✦ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/discoveringkaia
✦ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danarhakos/
✦ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/discovering.kaia/
✦ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@danarhakos

Don't miss any of the action (Ian's links):
✦ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ianvogelmedia
✦ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alt.timelines.ian/
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Hey, I’m Ian Vogel—host of Alternate Timelines. My journey started on a small farm in the midwest, where I always felt a little out of place. After years of skepticism and even a stint as an atheist, a near-death experience changed my perspective on everything. Since then, I’ve explored plant medicine, past life memories, and the mysteries of consciousness. Now, I’m sharing those experiences to help others navigate their own awakening. Through real stories, deep conversations, and wild explorations

Episode Transcript

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_09 (00:00):
I vividly remember telling my mom,

(00:02):
like, you know,'cause I wasfloating down the stairs last
night.
And she was like, Dan, that isliterally so impossible.
as I got older the astralprojecting and being able to
like somewhat lucid dream allstarted in middle school.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (00:14):
Hmm.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_0 (00:15):
It was not, I didn't know what it
was.
I didn't have words for it.
I loved being in church.
I loved going to funerals.
I loved that shit.
Which they thought was verystrange.
I was so in the clouds, and myparents also didn't have the
toolbox of what it meant to begrounded.
if your child runs up to you inthe middle of the night and says

(00:36):
that they see your dead parent,that might freak your nervous
system out.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (00:43):
Dan, it's so nice to see you again.
Such a pleasure to reconnect.
The last time we spoke, we hadan awesome conversation and you
mentioned some things and somethings that came up about you
that I did not know about.
And I just had to put a littlepin in it.
'cause our conversation went ina different direction.
But I was like, man, I have totalk to Dan again about these,

(01:05):
these things about your, yourpast specifically and the fact
that you grew up being able tocommunicate with the deceased
and, for lack of better term,your extra sensory perception,
your psychic abilities were moreheightened at, at a young age,
more so than the people aroundyou, if I understand that

(01:26):
correctly.
And you know, I think there area lot of people who are that way
who live that way and whoseexperience is that way and they
don't really know how to manageit.
And you're somebody who's becomesuccessful.
You, you run your own business,you've dealt with a, a lot of

(01:48):
the, you know, different aspectsof how to create boundaries and
the energetic aspect of it.
I'd love to hear more about yourstory, what it was like growing
up, being able to astral projectat will or randomly and how
you're able to.
Turn something that many peopleperceive as a burden into a

(02:12):
gift.
And I see that in you.
And I, I sense that in you, thatyou've been able to take a
challenging situation and, takethe most out of it and turn it
into something really beautifuland a beautiful life.
It's really inspiring and I, Ilove talking to you, so yeah, I,
I'd love to, to delve into that.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (02:30):
Yes.
Thank you so much for having mehere again, and thank you so
much for having those littlelight bulbs for you go off and
be like, those are directions Iwould really like to discuss.
So I feel like this is animportant topic for other people
that yes, might be like me, butalso parents that have children

(02:52):
because I'll definitely diveinto that.
Like my parents didn'tnecessarily know what to do.
And so I think if they would'vehad just a little bit more
direction, it could have beenhelpful, not just to them, but
also obviously for me.
So my parents realized like,I'll kind of start from there
and then wherever you wanna goand dive into, we'll start.
But my parents realized when Iwas about three, maybe four,

(03:14):
that I was having like genuineback and forth conversations.
Like, it's different when you.
Children make up things all thetime, but they started realizing
the questions I was respondingto.
They were like, how would shehave been prompted to answer
this question?
And so there was a photo of mydead uncle, which I actually

(03:36):
have it now and it's now on myaltar, but I used to come and I
would sit and I would talk and Iwould answer these questions and
I would ask questions and getanswers, and then I would go on
about my day because to me itwasn't odd.
And something that I'll alwayssay to people is, any child
under the age of seven, in myopinion, is so still deeply
connected to source that if youfoster any type of spiritual,

(04:00):
intuitive, or psychic.
Thing that you see, it willbloom and blossom into something
after seven is usually whenseven year olds usually start to
like, perceive the world.
And then we start to realizelike, what's weird, what's
strange?
I wanna fit in those types ofthings.
And so at that point my parentsjust kind of let me go off.

(04:22):
We'd be driving in the car and Iwould say, oh, so and so's next
to me.
I don't know so and so, but myparents knew so and so, or I
would get angry because my momwouldn't put out enough like
settings for dinner.
Because to me that was like,it's rude when we have people
over.
There's always, yeah, there'salways enough for everybody.
So I'm looking around like,well, that's not really fair.

(04:43):
If these two people are standinghere, they have to be able to
sit and eat too.
And so again, they didn't, myparents bless them, they didn't
tell me it was wrong.
They would ask me things'causethey'd be like, damn, she could
talk to'em.
So like, let's try to find outsome information.
But they also didn'tnecessarily.
Foster it and like find peoplethat could really water the

(05:05):
seeds that were happening.
They just kind of let me go withit.
And then as I got older theastral projecting and being able
to like somewhat lucid dream allstarted in middle school.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (05:18):
Hmm.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_0 (05:19):
It was not, I didn't know what it
was.
I didn't have words for it.
Again, like I would explain, I,I vividly remember telling my
mom, like, you know,'cause I wasfloating down the stairs last
night.
And she was like, Dan, that isliterally so impossible.
Like, I'm sure, I'm sure shedidn't tell me to shut the fuck
up.
And she was basically like, shutthe fuck up.
Like, I'm glad you had a gooddream, but like you cannot fly

(05:39):
down the stairs.
And obviously as I got older andI started reading about astro
projection, there was a word forit, there was an understanding
that, okay, you can astralproject to other dimensions, but
you can also astral projectwithin the confines of your own
home where you can just bringyourself up outta your body and
you can walk around.
And that's basically what I wasdoing when I was in middle
school.
Also in middle school.
My dad had started talking to meabout the Four Agreements, the

(06:01):
Secret.
My favorite book is The Tao ofPoo.
So like I did have all theselittle spiritual wisdom books
coming into play.
I had already, I knew what yogawas in high school was when I
started like becoming verydevoted.
To the yogic practices and likedeeper forms of meditation.
That's also when I started doingpsychedelics.

(06:23):
So it kind of got a little biteasier for me to hang out with
the dead or astral Project andLucid Dream because now I had
the capability to read certainbooks that I couldn't when I was
younger.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (06:36):
Hmm.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_09 (06:36):
I had access to being able to ask
teachers like, Hey, so thishappened to me in a dream last
night, or this was going on, andhave these teachers be like, I'm
gonna connect you with someone.
Just tell them what's going on.
So again, my parents didn't,they didn't tell me to stop.
They didn't tell me it wasstrange, but they didn't.
Have the tools in their toolboxto say, let's really let this

(06:59):
grow.
The last thing that I'll tellyou, and then I wanna hear where
you wanna start to really godeeper with this, is that when I
got my first bleed, it was my,it was the day of my 13th
birthday and the night before Igot the bleed, I used to see
people all the time, like deadpeople for, you know, lack of

(07:20):
better terms all the time.
The night before my 13thbirthday, I woke up and it was
like I was watching my uncle andhe was with someone else that I
didn't really know and there wasjust so many people there, but
it almost felt like it was afuneral, although it was joyous.

(07:45):
And then I got my bleed the, thenext day on my 13th birthday.
And then after that I started torealize I didn't really see
everyone as much.
My bleed kind of like brought, Imean think about like the influx
of hormones that happen to youwhen you're 13 years old.
And that did take, I wanna sayI, it wasn't in a bad way or it

(08:07):
wasn't in a good way, but it didmake a difference to how I was
then able.
I could hear them more, but Icouldn't see them as much.
So I wanna hear what's on yourheart.
'cause I wanna know whereexactly you wanna dive into.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (08:19):
Thanks for sharing all that, and this is
exactly where I thought thisconversation might go.
And one of the things that I wasreally interested in and
something that's on my heart alot is.
Children.
I grew up in a similar sort ofsituation as you, like, d
different geographic locations,but being very sensitive and

(08:41):
aware of things that werehappening around me that other
people were not aware of.
At, at a

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (08:47):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (08:47):
very clear that other people were not
having the same experience asme, even though they were
sitting, that they were rightnext to me.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (08:55):
Right next to you.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (08:55):
being able to have these conversations for
adults and caretakers parents,people who have children, like
start to plant those seeds.
Like if your kid is rememberingor telling you a story about
something that happened, likeyou know, it, it can be from one
end of completely shutting itdown and, you know, clamping

(09:17):
down on that and telling themthat it, that's not possible,
all that.
Or it could be something whereit's fostered and like, oh, tell
me more.
Let's get you in touch withsomebody who can help you to
develop this or help.
Learn more about this.
You know, there's a wide rangeof directions a parent can go,
and I think even, even in ofjust allowing the child and not

(09:38):
shutting them down and nothaving preconceived notions or,
or judge or putting labels orjudgment on the child's
experience, I think that's the,the bare minimum.
Just doing that, not puttingyour own stuff on the child,
your own, you know, whateverbeliefs on the

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (09:54):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (09:55):
is going to allow them to discover things
on their own and they'lleventually find a, find a path.
But the more we suppress and,and label and judge the parts of
our children's experience orthe, the experience of the youth
that are around us that we don'tunderstand or that we may not be
sharing in, we're setting thechild up potentially for, a life

(10:20):
of being able un unable toexpress themselves or feeling
like they're weird or feelinglike they don't belong, or
self-loathing or self-judgment.
This, this can come in,especially if there's strong
religious backgrounds in the, inthe household or the family.
That that's

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (10:37):
Ooh.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (10:37):
a whole other thing.
So I'm, I'm so, like, wanted totalk.
One of the big things I wantedto talk about was like, how can
we create spaces that are

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (10:48):
hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (10:48):
children to, to be themselves and, and
even encourage them to, to learnhow to understand themselves
better and set them up forsuccess later on in life to
where they don't feel like theyhave to suppress who they are.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_09 (11:04):
I love this.
This is wonderful.
This is beautiful.
Okay.
There's so much I have inresponse to this, so I think
that, so one of the things.
I wanna talk about religion.
And I also wanna talk about justlike things that I used to do
that they let me do.
One of the things was, so myfather's brother had passed
away, like well before I waseven a thought, like almost 20

(11:28):
years before I was born.
And so we always went to thegrave site.
I would collect rocks so often,and it was like the, that was my
collection of things that Ineeded to bring to Uncle Kenny.
And I would also, I would writethese long ass notes and then I
would read them, I would makeeverybody listen to me when we

(11:49):
were at the headstone.
I would be like, okay, I'm gonnaread my note now.
And everyone would be like,okay.
I remember vividly like being inthe rain and them being like,
Dan, you gotta read a little bitfaster.
Like it's, it's raining reallyhard.
And I'm like, no, I wanna makesure I, you know.
So in that sense, they just kindof let me do it.
I would be like, oh, I foundthese rocks.
I wanna bring them to UncleKenny.
And they'd be like.

(12:10):
Okay, we'll put them aside andthen when we go to the cemetery
next we can bring them.
'cause we went, we went for likeeverything.
We went for birthdays, we wentfor holidays, we went, because
in Staten Island, the zoo isacross the street from the
cemetery that my uncle wasburied in.
So sometimes we went to the zoo.
So we were like, Hey, we may aswell go see Uncle Kenny.
So in that way, that's just likea small thing that I thought was

(12:31):
so normal that my parents justlet me do that.
And then as I got older, Irealized like someone had said
something, they were like, Iwould've been super freaked out
if my kid brought rocks to meand said, I need to bring these
to my dead uncle.
And I was like, okay.
So in terms of like how as aparent we can foster things, if
your kid isn't doing anythingthat's like super erratic,
obviously erratic behavior islike a totally different

(12:53):
conversation that we can have.
But like, if the behavior isn'terratic and it's something
that's genuine, like I found,you know, of course I would be
like, I found this flower.
I wanna bring it to Uncle Kenny.
They're like, it's not gonnalast till Christmas, Dan.
Like it's, you know, like youhave to be open and honest with
your kid, but also.
They let me know rocks are okay,you wanna write him a letter?
I would type it up back in theday when like you had like the

(13:16):
computer room at the house, Iwould be like, I'm going into
the computer room to write myletters.
And I would put it on likecolored paper and stuff.
Like I took so much time becausemy parents also just allowed
that space of like, a letter isokay, rocks are okay.
You know, we can't bring food,we can't, you know, plant
certain things.
There are rules at the cemetery,so listen to your kid and if

(13:38):
it's something that is doable,then let it be doable.
So that's just like one reallysmall example.
I also wanna hit on religion andthen I wanna talk a little bit
more about like fostering gifts.
My, I grew up Catholic, but myparents were like, your regular,
like they went to church'causeit was what they were supposed

(14:00):
to do, not because they werelike really interested in it.
In fourth grade I said, I wannabecome an altar server.
And they were like.
Okay, sure.
So I, I studied, I took thetest, I became an altar server.
Then I said I wanna be a childlector, which is like reading,
and they were like, okay.
So I did that.
Then I was in charge of thechildren LECs, and I joined the

(14:22):
youth group at the church.
And then I was a cantor.
That was the last thing that Idid was the cantor is the
singer.
And I did that up until I wasabout 20.
And so I chose to be in thechurch because there were two
main places that I felt mostcomfortable.
The church and any Buddhist orHindu temple that I went to to

(14:44):
practice yoga, those places justmade sense to me.
What I will say is I was a veryrebellious Catholic in the youth
group where I sometimes saidthings or I questioned things
that they were not happy, that Iwas questioning, not my parents.
My parents were like, she'sgonna run her fucking mouth

(15:06):
whether you want it or not.
You wanted her here, you wantedher as president of the youth
group.
She's gonna run her mouth.
But some people in the churchweren't comfortable with what I
was questioning, but I wasquestioning it because I was
able to, in a church, if you area child and you're able to see
things, oh my God, it's bumpingin there.
It's so busy.

(15:26):
There's so many people's thingsmoving around.
I mean, they are, they're sayingcertain prayers.
It's like when you go to Ton andyou're reciting mantra over and
over and over.
Some of these prayers have beenused for many, many years.
So at a certain point, people'sauras start to change.
So if you bring your child to achurch and they're, and they say

(15:48):
that they see certain colors orthey see someone or they feel
someone.
Just let them see or feel it, aslong as it's not, again,
anything that's like one, eitherlike a demonic presence or
something that you're likementally, maybe that's not okay.
But I loved being in the churchbecause I got very lucky.
There were priests that I grewup with.

(16:10):
They weren't mad that I wantedto go and practice yoga and
learn more about Buddhism andHinduism.
And I, I liked saying, well, Iwent to this yoga class last
week and they talked about thisperson and it reminds me of this
person from the Bible.
Like they liked that.
So I did get very lucky if youcan find some type of religion

(16:30):
that's close by to bring yourchild to, that has good people.
'cause that's, that's the bigindicator there.
Good people, of course therewere priests that I, there was a
nun that I met.
There's this thing, it's calledlike P Taf and we were, it was
when I was in youth group and wewent and I got in a lot of
trouble because I was like 16 or17 and I just didn't like that

(16:51):
the nun was saying that abortionwas wrong.
I thought it was stupid andfucked up.
And so I said, I think this isstupid and fucked up.
You get in trouble.
But at that point I already hadmy own voice, so like I could
advocate for myself that Ithought this was stupid.
When I got back to my church inStaten Island, the the like head
priest is what I'll call him inthis he had heard what I said

(17:12):
and he was like, I, I thought Iwas gonna get in trouble.
And he was like, no.
He was like, you have beliefs,and beliefs is a good thing.
And he was like, you obviouslyfeel very strongly about this.
And I hadn't known anybody toget an abortion or really knew
anything too deep about thatworld then, but then years later
I would choose to have anabortion.
So I appreciated that.
Father, his, his name was AlanTravers father Alan Travers was

(17:36):
very much so like, be strong inyour beliefs.
Like that's, that is like Christwas strong in his beliefs.
Be strong in your beliefs.
And that was something that Itook with me.
I don't think he realized whathe was saying to me, but like, I
believe all of us can seethings.
I believe all of us can hearthings.
I believe all of us can beconnected to the other side.
And so when he said that to meat 16.

(17:57):
I was like, fuck yeah.
My beliefs are my beliefs and ifanybody tells me that I'm wrong,
they can suck my dick.
So at that point was when Ireally started to get deeper and
deeper into like, if I want totalk to my dead uncle, or I want
to talk to, at that point,because I had been doing so much
astral projection, I knew thatthere were other entities right

(18:21):
in other places, and I was like,fuck that.
It doesn't say anything in theBible like that.
Even if you go to like certaintemples that are like Hindu
temples or like Buddhisttemples, they're not really
gonna usher you in the directionof connecting with
extraterrestrials.
But Father Traverse was like,you have a belief stand in it.
I said, fuck yeah, I'm gonnastand in it and I'm gonna, I'm

(18:42):
gonna move with this.
So I also wanna circle that backto the idea that just having
certain books.
Accessibility in your home,

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (18:55):
Hmm.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (18:56):
it's a child that you realize or an
adolescent that you realize thatyou're like, oh, they're kind of
in tune with something.
Now that also bleeds intosometimes mental illness where
parents, and I've seen this manytimes where parents are like,
oh, but if my child saidsomething that you said, I
would've thought they wereschizophrenic.
I will say the first time I wentto therapy, I was 14 and I did,

(19:19):
I asked the therapist, I said,April, am I schizophrenic?
And she said, no, you're normal,you're fine.
She was quite already spiritualin and of herself.
And so I started going totherapy because my grandfather
had passed away and because Ihad shown my parents, I loved
connecting with the other side.
I loved being in church.
I loved going to funerals.

(19:41):
I loved that shit.
Which they thought was verystrange.
But when you become an altarserver, I was in fourth grade,
sometimes they do request.
Servers for funerals.
And I was like, I wanna do it.
You know, you get paid like 20,30 bucks.
It's like nothing.
But I didn't, it wasn't themoney for me.
It was like, am I gonna get tosee the dead body?
Am I gonna get to hear them?
Like, talk to me, am I gonna getto see them walk around like I

(20:03):
wanted that.
So at 15 when my grandfather hadstarted to die, he went on
hospice and for a month he hadan entire death team.
And so he had hospice nurses, myfamily members.
And then there were two peoplefrom the church and then someone
who was basically a death doula.
But under more of a religiousaspect.

(20:25):
'cause they were, mygrandparents were born in like
the twenties and thirties.
So they, they were really rahrah for Jesus.
They were rah rah for whiteJesus, like culturally accurate.
Jesus is my boy, but not really.
You know what, you get what I'msaying?

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (20:39):
Yeah.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_0 (20:40):
So when, when my grandfather
started to die, I asked myparents like.
Can I watch the process?
I'd like to see it.
'cause I knew what the otherside was.
I knew what life was and I knewhow they could talk to you when
they're dead.
I mean, they live a whole lifeover there.

(21:01):
Like death is nothing to befeared.
Although I still have fear ofdeath myself'cause I love Earth,
but they live a whole life overthere.
So I knew that, but I knew therewas like a liminal space that I
just didn't understand, like thedecay of a body.
So my parents, I think there arepros and cons to them saying yes
to allowing a 15-year-old forlike almost four weeks to watch

(21:25):
someone's body decay.
But I don't regret it at allbecause I feel like it taught me
the importance of life anddeath.
That my parents didn't have thewords when I was younger, that
my dad would cry when I wouldread those letters.
I would be so excited, be likeUncle Kenny at school this week
of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And my dad would sub.
I didn't understand that, butfor him, he identified my

(21:48):
uncle's body.
So like his last memories wereof this mangled remnants.
They didn't have the words orknow how to articulate that to
me.
'cause I was like, but it'sokay.
He's right there.
He's with us.
You know, watching mygrandfather pass allowed me to

(22:11):
see like, oh this isdevastating.
This isn't even the per, thisisn't even the grandfather that
I knew.
His voice is different.
He's losing his mind.
He, he was talking to deadpeople way more than I was at
that point.
'cause they're in like thatinteresting space.
And so, I, I think that if.

(22:32):
Maybe not like children.
I don't, I don't even know ifit's teenager.
I don't know if it was correctfor me to witness that, but I do
think if you don't have thewords to express to your
children, sit them down with apriest who does your last
rights.
That's what they call it in likethe Catholic church.
Sit them down with a death doulawho can explain to you like,
well, you know, after they diefor like five to seven minutes,

(22:54):
the body is still processingsomething.
Like teach them.
There are books out there forchildren and for adolescents
that use better verbiage thanyou might be able to express.
But also, and maybe I'm wrongfor this, like express yourself,
like I, I wish my dad would'vetold me like, it breaks my heart

(23:16):
when we come here because Ican't stop thinking about what
his body looked like.
Like be open, be honest.
Because there was a disconnectfor me until I started going to
therapy and I could unpack thatwhere I was like.
They only cry at specific times.
And I started to realize, oh,because they're not in tune,

(23:36):
they're not talking to thembesides when the funeral is
happening, when you're at theheadstones or wherever the
person is buried they don't,they're not tapped in like you
and I on a regular Tuesday whenI'm like, oh, uncle Kenny, you
wanna go for a walk at theriver?
And I walk down the road with mydog and, you know, so, I hope
some of that is helpful and Iknow I just said a lot of

(23:58):
things, so I'll take a deepbreath and you tell me where we
should drive next.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (24:04):
Thank you for sharing all that.
That's, it touches on so manydifferent things.
I mean, from the, the religiousaspects, like just personally
and I know.
A lot of people that this isgonna resonate with because I, I
grew up in rural Minnesota in avery homogenous area.
White people that go to churchand

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (24:27):
For white Jesus.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (24:28):
for white Jesus.
And it's, it's not good.
It's not bad.
It's just, it is what it is.
This is a

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (24:34):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (24:35):
area and it's, people here are very stuck
in their beliefs and it is avery

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (24:42):
Mm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (24:43):
all, all that.
And I was a little dark personsurrounded by big white people.
It felt like my, my mother'sfrom Chile and

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (24:52):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (24:53):
took on a lot more of her characteristics
and around here, the, theheritage and is mostly Dutch and
Scandinavian,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (25:05):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (25:06):
I was like.
A little, a little dark person,a little brown person a

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (25:12):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (25:12):
where I just didn't feel like I fit in
whatsoever.
And we would go to, when I waslittle, I went to a Lutheran
church and

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (25:20):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (25:22):
like, I remember them giving me the hymn
null, and I just, I just, Iwouldn't sing.
I'm like, I, I don't connectwith this at all.
Like, what are we doing here?
This is boring.
Like, just on a deep level, Iwas like, this is wrong.
Like, I don't connect with thisis, there's nothing spiritual
about this.
For as long

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (25:40):
Hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (25:40):
wouldn't sing.
I would just like, I would justkinda be forced to go and just
go through the, the motions.
And it wasn't until later on didI, and I started doing the like
deep inner work that I realizedthat I was carrying a lot of
wounds from that.
And a lot

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (25:55):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (25:56):
like repressed, you know, repressed
emotions and feelings about myloved ones who brought me there.
They brought me there out of a.
Feeling of duty andresponsibility and feeling like
they were doing the right thing,forcing me to be

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (26:10):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (26:11):
in this thing that I obviously didn't
wanna participate in.
From their point of view, it wasthe loving thing to do from my
point of

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (26:17):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (26:18):
It made me feel like I didn't belong.
And it just like, it wounded mein a lot of ways and I had to go
through this whole process offorgiving fam, my family members
and people who are just doingthe best that I could.
you mentioned the fact that at ayoung age, these things are more
prominent, these abilities aremore prominent and these senses

(26:39):
are accessible to children.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (26:43):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (26:44):
you know, it, if we're looking at it from
a, lens, the, from the timewe're born until about the age
of 7, 8, 9, our brains are, arein theta, in the theta brainwave

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (26:58):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (26:58):
is.
A state of hypnosis, you're justabsorbing what's going on around
you.
That, there's also the, youknow, that aspect, the, the, the
neurology of what's happeningand how our brains are forming.
And if something deep within usdoesn't resonate, like it, it
creates a, a dissonance.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (27:16):
Mm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (27:17):
we can take that on at a young age, and
a lot of people do, and theyjust carry it into their adult
life and not understanding

dan--she-her-_1_05-2 (27:24):
Adulthood.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (27:25):
this tension is coming from.
And from, from trauma for, forlack of better term.
Like

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (27:33):
Yep.

_1_05-26-2025_09075 (27:34):
necessarily a, there's lowercase T trauma
and

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (27:38):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (27:40):
what is traumatic for one person is not
gonna be traumatic for somebodyelse.
And how,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (27:44):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (27:45):
benign as forcing a kid to go to, to go to
a church and, and, and say acertain prayer and.
In order to be

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (27:53):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (27:55):
Like I, I said the prayer and I didn't
feel any different.
I'm like, okay, I guess I'm notsaved.
I guess I'm going to hell.
and I lived with, I was a kid.
I didn't know anybody.
I lived with that for years and

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (28:07):
Mm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (28:08):
years, and it took a lot of unlearning and
unwinding and un unravelingthis, these knots of

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (28:17):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (28:18):
and like religious lowercase

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (28:21):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (28:22):
and things that I experienced that really,
I carried it well into adulthoodunconsciously, I was not aware
that I, I

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (28:30):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (28:31):
towards my.
One of my family members forbringing me there and making me
do that, that affected ourentire relationship.
Like it was unconscious.
And, a lot of people are, areliving with these, with these
sorts of situations.
And I, I really

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (28:45):
Mm,

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (28:46):
your perspective and when you were
describing the situation you'rein, I was like, wow, that is
just like the openness of thepeople in the, the clergy and
the people in authority withinthe church.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_09 (28:58):
I got lucky.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (28:59):
never, I never, I wouldn't say that I, I
got unlucky, but I neverencountered

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (29:04):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (29:05):
until, well, later on in life I was

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (29:08):
Mm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (29:09):
sure you're Christian?
Like, you're like, I've neverheard a Christian say speak like
that.
And I've never, you're

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (29:17):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (29:18):
of the Christians that I've ever met.
And, and I just

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (29:20):
Mm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (29:21):
frame of reference.
'cause from the time I grew up,everything was.
the way that it was.
So yeah, allowing, I

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (29:27):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (29:27):
allowing kids to just be in that state
and be open and having the booksaround and just even having,
like planting those seeds andallowing them to gravitate
towards whatever they want

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (29:40):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (29:41):
towards, giving them options, allowing
them to

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_0 (29:44):
Mm

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (29:44):
themselves and, and learn for themselves, I
mean, I think is hugelyimportant.
Children are brilliant and ifyou give them the time and the
space to express theirbrilliance with direction and
not unnecessary and unduerestrictions on them, children
are remarkable at figuring outwhat they like and what they

(30:04):
want to do and how, how to dothings

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (30:06):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (30:07):
They want to, like, that's a part of their
development and, creating anenvironment for them to be able
to do so I think is, isincredibly important.
and.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (30:17):
Hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (30:19):
Yeah, it's, I I, that that is
something that's near and dearto my heart'cause it is a wound
that I cared for a long time.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_09 (30:26):
I think there's, well first off,
thank you so much for sharingthat with me.
And there's like multiple thingsthat I wanna hit on there.
So I feel like conversations, Ifeel like if you are going to be
a parent, I think it's crazythat there's not like a test you
need to pass to be a parent.
I feel like there's supposed tobe some type of exam that you

(30:47):
need to pass with flying colorsto be a parent, but apparently
that doesn't exist.
But what I'm trying to get at isthere needs to be conversation
around certain things.
Because you're saying you wentand like, just the idea that a
little kid was sitting there andsaid, okay, I said the prayer, I
don't feel different, whichmeans I'm probably not saved.

(31:08):
Were there people around to havethat conversation with you, to
have the conversation of like,well, how are you feeling now
that we're leaving masks?
Now that we're leaving church,now that we're leaving, you
know, whatever we were at,having open-ended conversations
where you are neutral forchildren to explore is so
unbelievably important in myopinion.

(31:28):
And my opinion comes from, one,it's my motherfucking belief.
And two, a lot of people thatcome on our retreats or work
one-to-one with us, they don'trealize it at first, but yeah,
they've got religious trauma insome way, shape or form.
And so they didn't haveconversations like this though.
It was a very much so it was ablack and white situation it
seems like for most people.
I also grew up in New York.

(31:49):
It's Staten Island, so beingpart of the city, maybe that's
why I had a little bit more ofpeople that were open.
But still at the same time,there are definitely people that
when I got very vocal and openas I got older, those people in
the church that were very niceto me, they were not fucking
nice to me anymore.
And I said, again, you can suckmy fucking dick.
I don't care.

(32:09):
I'm happy.
That also comes to another piecethat I wanted to talk about,
which is like knowing yourchild.
My brother is also extremelyintuitive.
He's incredible at readingtarot.
Like he's got his own beautifulset of tools in his toolbox.
However, we are extremelydifferent.
My brother is much more quietthan I am.

(32:31):
If you don't ask him questions,he's not gonna tell you.
Whereas if you can obviouslytell I'm a fucking loud mouth.
I feel like my, my Leo rising inmy chart cancels out.
I have like a Libra Seum.
I feel like it just cancels allthe Libra out and my Leo just
comes right through.
So I'm very bold in myconviction because that is the

(32:51):
type of person that I am.
That's why I like my parentswere like, if you don't want her
to run your mouth, don't put herup there.
'cause she's gonna run her mouthif she doesn't agree with
something that you say likethat's on you, you know, for not
knowing.
But for my brother, he neededmore questions.
Because to them it was, oh, Danhas these gifts.
He doesn't, meanwhile he did.

(33:13):
The whole time it was just, noone was prompting him and asking
him certain things to move himin the direction.
Later on he ended up finding it.
'cause he would always say, hewould always come into my
bedroom and like, do yoga withme.
And I would tell him like whatmy yoga teachers were saying or
like, what happened at Temple,you know, and like, share
certain random things, you know,that I learned.

(33:33):
And so he found his way to plantmedi, like all of us.
Found his way to plant medicine,found his way, the whole nine
yards.
He lived in San Diego.
I love San Diego.
The place, the people are quiteeccentric though, like almost
too eccentric for me.
They're very Sedona, if you getwhat I'm saying.
And so there needs to be, weneed to find balance.
We cannot be up in the cloudsall the time.

(33:54):
And that's kind of what I wannaget to is the idea that like,
yeah,

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (33:58):
you on the woo.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (34:00):
heavy on the woo.
When I figured out that I couldas shall project and I could
lucid dream and I could fucking,I was 15, 16, eat mushrooms,
smoke a ton of salvia.
I highly, highly do notrecommend this to any teenagers
that could potentially listen tothis, but it was what I did.

(34:22):
I was like, drugs and alcoholexist.
And I didn't call them plantmedicine because I was using
them not as plant medicine.
I was not using themceremonially.
I was using them as drugs.
And having the time of my lifedoing so.
But with that being said, I wasso in the clouds, and my parents
also didn't have the toolbox ofwhat it meant to be grounded.

(34:43):
So when I would say, oh mygoodness, I'm overwhelmed with
panic and I'm having anxiety.
Well, obviously you're a highlysensitive being who's fucking
popping shrooms and talking todead people, watching your
grandfather die, obviouslyyou're having panic attacks.
They also didn't understandanxiety or depression or bipolar
or any, any of those mentalillness things.

(35:06):
And they didn't understandsimple things which were
grounding techniques.
They didn't understand breathwork.
I'm obviously a breath workpractitioner now because I felt
like that was very important.
They didn't understandgrounding, quite literally
getting my feet in cold water.
'cause they didn't know.
They didn't know what theydidn't know.
They weren't taught those thingsin their generation.
My parents were both born in thesixties, my mom in the early

(35:26):
sixties and my dad in the latesixties.
But like, they weren't taughtthese things and they didn't
seek these things out.
If you are going to allow achild to be deeply immersed in.
Whatever it is that theirintuitive gifts call for.
You also wanna make sure thatyou ground the shit out of them

(35:47):
because they are in a human bodyon this planet.
And our nervous system only hasas much capacity as we're able
to give it.
And so for me, although I hadextreme capacity to get out of
my head and go into wherever Iwas going, I didn't really have
the capacity within my physicalbody to feel comfortable and,
and be like, okay, now that I'vejust energetically connected

(36:10):
with all these things, let'sbring Dan back into her body and
clean the body out.
I didn't know, I didn't know Ihad to do that.
So I feel like.
That's also important forparents, like have your own
grounding techniques.
Have your own way to expand yournervous system capacity.
Because yes, if your child runsup to you in the middle of the
night and says that they seeyour dead parent, that might

(36:31):
freak your nervous system out.
And so you wanna make sure thatnot only do you have a grounding
technique for your child aftertheir connecting with these
other realms, but also that youhave the capacity to soothe
yourself so that you can say,actually yes, I can allow my
child to move through this andexplore their own self.
'cause if you don't have thecapacity, that creates children

(36:54):
not having the capacity.
Does that make sense?

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (36:56):
Yeah, absolutely.
Having a even very basic, itdoesn't have to be a spiritual
or esoteric or metaphysicalthing, but having a very basic
set of tools that you can useyourself for energetic hygiene,
like you say, gr grounding and,and knowing that situations can

(37:17):
arise.
Where, where somebody's, whereyour energy might be affected.
Well, what are you gonna do?
what, like simple breathingtechnique can you use, can, can
you touch the ground?
Like have three or four thingsthat you

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (37:30):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (37:30):
easily and quickly rely on that you don't
have to think about.
It's not like, oh, what am Igonna do if this happens, if my,
if my child is.
Is overregulated or if theirnervous system isn't able to
manage the situation, what arelike one or two things that we
could do immediately?
Just whether it's a simple boxbreathing or touching the
ground, getting outside, gettingsome fresh air, you know,

(37:53):
getting that person out of theenvironment so that they can
decompress a little bit,whatever it is.
Just having some very simplepractices, again, that don't
have to be spiritual in any way.
It's just basic, like, likebrushing your teeth or, or sort
of basic thing that you do as,as form, as hygiene,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (38:12):
Hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (38:13):
can have that as energetic hygiene as
well, and I think having a, apersonal practice it helps, but
just being aware that thosethings are out there for
children and,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (38:26):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (38:27):
and, and not assuming that.
Just because maybe you don'tconnect with breath work or
grounding doesn't affect you asmuch.
Not making the assumption thatit's not gonna affect them.
Like, like try it, be open.
know, one, one thing that youand, and as you were talking, of
things clicked with me.
It's like being, talking to yourchildren, telling your children

(38:49):
about your experience.
As you were talking, I had, Irealized why I wasn't able to,
or I didn't feel comfortableexpressing, you know, the
feeling that I, I said theprayer and I didn't feel any
different and I thought I wasgoing to hell because of it.
I had never said anything toanybody was because none of the
adults in my life were havingthose conversations

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (39:10):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (39:10):
Like, they weren't

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (39:11):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (39:12):
they were not themselves opening up in
that way.
They weren't vulnerable, theyweren't sharing their, like, the
inner aspects of themselves.
So I, I just never had that asa.
As a, a model.
I never knew that,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (39:26):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (39:27):
of behavior was appropriate, that I
could tell them that how I wasfeeling I was just doing what
the adults around me were doing,and that was suppressing this
really deep feeling of like,I'm, I'm not good enough.
Like, God doesn't love me.
There's something wrong with me.
I didn't know that I could go, Ididn't feel like it was safe.
I didn't even know it was athing that I could go talk to

(39:49):
somebody about how I wasfeeling.
It was just everybody was kindof in their own little silo,
their own little space, and,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (39:57):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (39:57):
was vulnerable with me in such a way
that I felt like I could also bevulnerable with them.
Not to

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (40:03):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (40:03):
or, or not to an extent where I, I felt
like I could have any of thesesorts of conversations with
them.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (40:11):
That is like the biggest piece of the
puzzle that when I am workingwith people that have gotten
older is them recognizing thosethings.
And I think this speaks to apoint where like, I'm not a
parent, so like my hands are upwith this one.
Like I get it, it is difficult.
But how many people, justbecause you give kids food and
shelter and you were nice enoughto them, doesn't mean that you

(40:35):
didn't stifle their growth inother ways or maybe inflicted
certain traumas on them.
Because those things are, in myopinion, only my opinion those
things also are neglectful tonot be having those
conversations.
Because those things can reallyspiral us out as we get older,
especially if we don't knowthat.

(40:56):
If we don't know that this issomething that weighs heavy on
our heart.
And like I also wanna add.
If people are listening to thisand they're like, fuck, I don't
want my kid to end up like Dan,which is like, totally fine.
I get it.
I, I'm strange, right?
Like there are some people thatthink what you and I do is very
weird and how we live and whatwe believe in is very weird and
that's totally fine.

(41:17):
There are tons of people thatare able to connect with the
other side that are not maybedoing plant medicine or
traveling to certain places tohave certain experiences.
Like they could very well be theperson that gives you, you know,
your bagel in the morning at thefucking bodega.
Like, it doesn't necessarilymean that we're also gonna end
up like these quote unquoteweirdos.

(41:37):
'Cause I know that's alsosomething where when I do work
with people that are older,they're like, you know, maybe
their parent did realize andtheir parent expressed to them
after they brought up theconversation.
Like, well, I didn't want you toend up like, you know, these
hippies that go to these ashramsand then are in a cult.
And it's like, I.
I totally understand thatperspective too.
But that doesn't necessarilymean that's going to happen if

(42:00):
you're fostering the correctconversations for children to
understand that.
And I also understand that it'shard to not have your own
opinions and your own beliefsand not want your kids to see
that.
Like if I had a kid right now, Iwould want my kid to be as
excited as I am to see myfavorite tree at the river.
I love that fucking tree.
Now, how could you not beexcited to see this tree?

(42:21):
But also at the same time, maybethat's not it.
Maybe my kid does feel morecomfortable at Temple or going
to certain spaces.
You know, maybe it is a church,maybe it's not a church.
So like it's a lot of, Ooh.
And I also wanna add, maybe it'snot your kid, maybe it's your
friend, maybe it's your partnerthat you're recognizing.
How can I support them?

(42:43):
We cannot force all of ourbeliefs.
It's the same thing withparents.
I've tried this many times.
When I started to realize thatmy brother was gifted too, I was
like, oh bitch, I'm gonna make amini me right now, bro.
And obviously I could not,because he was his own person,
right?
He had to figure things out forhimself and he had to tell me,
fuck off.
I'm figuring it out as we fostercommunity.

(43:07):
'cause for me, I'm not in aspace, I'm not fostering anybody
like that besides my clients,right?
I let them, if all of a suddenthey're like, I'm really called
to work with the spirit of Jesusthis week.
That's the ascended master thatI wanna work with for this week
or this month.
Sure, let's dive into it.
Let's see where it goes.
And if that leads them tobecoming religious in some way,

(43:28):
shape, or form.
That's their way to get there.
I'm not there to tell themwhat's right or what's wrong.
I am just there to let them knowlike, you're not schizophrenic,
you're not crazy.
Keep cleansing your energeticbody.
Keep cleansing your physicalbody.
That's all we can do is in thesame way that we create the
capacity within our nervoussystem is create the capacity to

(43:50):
know, this is Dan's beliefs, butas soon as I meet with you, it's
okay.
My beliefs have to be back hereand I just have to listen to
where he's at and hopefully, youknow, steer the boat in the
right direction.
That's calling to you today andhopefully that could be as
helpful to you as possiblebecause to me, the teachers that
I have had that have let me runfree, like at one point I wanted

(44:14):
to be at Temple to do Puja andTon every single fucking day.
That was where I needed to beat.
Obviously another point in timeI needed to be in church.
I felt like I.
Which also, by the way I don'thave all of them recorded, but
like, there are tons of hymnsbecause I was a cantor, I've
changed the lyrics.
Like even like the Hail Mary, Ising it at at ceremonies all the

(44:35):
time.
But I've changed the lyrics'cause I don't, I hate the word
sinner.
So like, there are just thingsthat I've changed over the years
and like when I first recordedmyself singing that Hail Mary,
this wasn't, I wouldn't haveconsidered this person like a
spiritual teacher, but they werea priest from the church that I
was at.
And I posted this video onInstagram and Facebook, and that
priest happened to be a friendof mine on Facebook.

(44:56):
And they reached out and theywere like, that was absolutely
beautiful.
Like, hopefully hope to see yousoon.
Like hopefully we can gettogether, like hope everything's
going well.
And it made me feel so lovedbecause there was no, like, I
can't believe you changed thewords to this.
It was very like, this is whereyou need to be.
The teachers that I had, theHindi teachers that I had were
very, like, Dan's here all thetime.

(45:17):
And then I said.
I think I need to take a stepback from this.
They were like, okay, so takeyour step back from this.
Like, that's okay.
We'll still be here.
We'll still love you.
So it's really fostering anurturing environment to, and
total different conversation ifyou feel like your child or your
loved one is potentially havingmental issues, totally different
conversation.
That's not what we're discussingtoday because that's also very

(45:37):
valid.
But fostering that place whereyou can love somebody through
their exploration requires youto have your own nervous system
capacity and understanding thatif somebody believes something
different from you, that doesn'ttake away from your beliefs.
And I feel like parents don'tget that.
And I'm not a parent, so yes,I'm judging you guys, but like I
just meet a lot of parents thatare, are my clients that I get

(45:59):
pushback when they're like,yeah, but the kid doesn't see
this.
And I'm like, okay.
They don't see it your wayeither they haven't had enough
life experience or they don'thave that belief that you have
so.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (46:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I, my personal belief isthat everybody does the best
that they can with the resourcesthat they have.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (46:16):
Yes.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (46:17):
And, you know, part of in a relationship
of a mother child or a parentand child means that you're, you
as the parent is, are going tosome sort of lo lowercase,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_0 (46:32):
Oh yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (46:33):
the lowercase t trauma on your
child.
Like,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (46:35):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (46:36):
part of the agreement.
And this is my belief, like weall do the best that we can with
what we have.
And sometimes that means thatwhat you originally knew or the,
like, your skills at a certainpoint in time were not adequate
to, know, foster the certaingifts of your child.
Or,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (46:54):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (46:55):
know, maybe like what is the ideal
situation?
Like where is there ever aperfect situation?
There

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-20 (47:01):
Right.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (47:02):
child ever grew up.
Or had a perfect childhood.
I know a lot of people wanttheir kids to be a certain way
and with my personal experiencein the, in the work that I've
done internally and unpackingall this stuff from my
childhood, it's like I, I'vecome to a point where I can look
back and see the things thatwere really challenging or the,

(47:24):
the beliefs that were instilledin me or the, the things that
caused lower t trauma andaffected my life in a really
challenging sort of a way I canlook back on'em now and say,
wow, you know what, know thatthat person was doing the best
that they could do.
I'm actually grateful that I hadthat situation that I had to

(47:46):
work through.
'cause it taught me so much.
Like, my personal belief is thatwe're here learn lessons and
without

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (47:53):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (47:54):
These things that happen to us in our
childhood without our parents,potentially pushing their own
agenda on us and us having to,to figure out how we relate to
that or how we, how our personalbeliefs relate to their beliefs.
If you don't have some sort offriction or some sort of
pressure externally on you, youcan't really figure out where

(48:15):
you are in relation to somebodyif they're not,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_0 (48:18):
To that.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (48:19):
if they're not, you know, giving you
something to push up against ifthey're not, you know, giving
you

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_0 (48:23):
Mm

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (48:24):
and their points of view.
Like it's, my perspective, it'sall well and good.
Like, abuse is really achallenging thing to think
about.
I'm not a parent either and youknow, I've, like, I never, I'm
like not condoning abusewhatsoever.

(48:44):
And at the same time.
My belief is that life is about,it's not about the things that
happen to you, it's about howyou respond to the things that
happen to you.
That's how you

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (48:53):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (48:54):
are.
I really like to use good andbad.
Like I, it's hard for me to say,and I, I don't believe that
abuse, physical abuse ainherently bad thing.
Honestly.
It's traumatizing for the child.
Yes.
It's always comes from a placeof trauma and creates specific

(49:15):
challenges in that person'slife.
And, some people rise to theoccasion and they figure out how
to overcome it, and they figureout how to be the best parent
who, who never touches theirchild or does, or repeats any of
those

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (49:30):
Hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (49:31):
My mother's an example of that.
She was like dealt with somereally gnarly stuff and she
never laid a hand on me becauseof that.
And

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (49:42):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_09075 (49:42):
situations.
I just personally don't believethat they, that those things
happen to us for a negativereason.
I, I believe that everyexperience that we have, the
universe has positive intent tohelp us grow and to help us
become the people that we areable to become.
These are all learningexperiences.

(50:04):
Never condoning abuse.
Never.
I wouldn't say that I want it, Iwould never perpetrate it on
somebody.
cause I,'cause there are karmiclike energetic,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (50:14):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (50:15):
That doesn't come without a price.
Like doing that on somebodycreates an, an energetic karma
that I wanna have no part

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (50:21):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (50:21):
Like that, that's not part of my, that's
not part of my story.
And I, I don't think thesechallenging things that happen
to us when we're children haveto be something that's
disempowering.
I think those can be

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (50:33):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (50:34):
empower us.
Even the most gnarly ofcircumstances I've met in the,
in facilitating plant medicineceremonies, I've met people who

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (50:42):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (50:43):
have, who have experienced unbelievable
amounts of abuse as children

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (50:48):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (50:49):
upon them by the closest people in their
life.
And,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (50:52):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (50:54):
and they ha at, at a certain point,
everybody has a choice.
Am I gonna, am I a victim tothis?
Is this gonna make me who I am?

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (50:59):
Hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (51:01):
am I gonna use this situation as a form of
empowerment to become the personthat I know

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (51:07):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (51:08):
to be like,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (51:10):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (51:10):
these sorts of things don't have to be
disempowering.
They can be the things thatliberate us and often those most
challenging experiences thatwe've experienced at a young age
are the things that help lead usto become.
Like really incredible peopleand, and help to create
diamonds.
A diamond is created underimmense pressure, and without

(51:32):
that immense, pre immensepressure, you couldn't have a
diamond.
The high achievers, people, whohave incredible families, people
who are, maybe they don't havea, a lot of money or things
externally, but they're justhappy and devoted to a life of
service to others.
Like often those sorts of andsituations, people who you
really look up to of having highcharacter have gone through

(51:55):
incredibly challengingsituations.
So I,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (51:58):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (51:59):
I, I always think of those things as
opportunities for, for deep andreally profound growth.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_09 (52:08):
I think it's important to name
that because like recently I wastelling a client that I was
like, you keep looking ateverything as black and white.
I was like, you are soforgetting the different
variations of the color gray.
Like where that can put you onthe spectrum of what you are
experiencing right now becauseof what they're going through,
that would typically be labeledas bad.

(52:30):
I was like, you keep, you keepsaying it.
We keep repeating, we keeprepeating, and we're in the same
cycle over here in the bad.
I was like, but you're notseeing anything else of where we
can bring it.
So I think that that's sounbelievably important to name,
and I completely agree with you.
I think for the people that arepotentially in the deep trauma
right now, they don't wanna hearthat.

(52:50):
And I totally get that.
And I agree with you and

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (52:54):
I, I

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (52:55):
yeah,

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (52:55):
totally respect that.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025_ (52:58):
and I totally agree with you that in
terms of facilitation.
Facilitation and space holding?
Not that I don't have respectfor people that haven't really
been through anything in theirlife.
'cause like I think respectingall human life is important.
But yes, for me, if I'm about togo on a plant medicine journey,
I want the person who has beento Helen back in life and Helen

(53:21):
back in the ceremony space.
I wanna make sure that we aregoing to the same great lengths
as each other.
I also think it builds exactlywhat you were saying.
It builds a different type ofcharacter.
When you meet somebody who itwas all very like dainty for
lack of better terms in life,there's this kind of like, damn,

(53:41):
that's great that it was so goodfor you.
I'm so happy that it was so goodfor you in your experience.
But then in what ways are yougoing to be able to understand
my experience or hold morecapacity for me to have like
very deep, dark,transformational experiences If
you can't.
Even put an idea or an energeticfeeling to it.

(54:03):
So I love that point too.
And I, I think this conversationis so important.
And there's definitely even morelike, I didn't even talk about
being on antidepressants becauseI was on antidepressants for
four years and like what thathas to do in this world as well.
So like, maybe there's also away that we get to continue this
conversation.
'cause I think there's a lotmore to go into.

(54:24):
But thank you so much for all ofthis.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (54:26):
Yeah, I, I appreciate you sharing and this
conversation.
I think it's something that lotof people are experiencing on
some level, but there's not alot of conversations around like
being able to learn how to livewith our, our natural God-given
gifts that, that we all

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (54:42):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (54:43):
age.
Some people are a bit more intune with'em than others, but
it, it, these things are allaccessible to everybody and
especially at a younger age.
And Yeah, we, and there'spotentially a, a lot more we
could talk about.
And,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2 (54:56):
Mm-hmm.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (55:20):
put on the back burner.
How we don't really acknowledgeit.
It's death has become taboosomehow.
And,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (55:26):
Yeah.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (55:28):
you and I have both have, have experienced
working through that and beingmore comfortable with that than
other people.
And how depth has become a tabooin our society is just a huge
topic and a, a source of likefear and trauma for a lot of
people.
So, yeah.
I know.
We gotta wrap this up.
Dan.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (55:45):
Yeah,

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (55:47):
I, we, we could go for a long time.
How,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (55:50):
know.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (55:51):
How can people connect with you?
Like I, I found out about you onInstagram and I really love the
content you put out.
How can people connect with you?
What are you I what are youdoing?
We didn't even talk about thefact that you're in Peru right
now, and that's where you're,where you're living.
can people connect with you andjust give us a, a brief rundown
of how to, how to engage withyou further.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-202 (56:11):
Yeah, so I do have Instagram and I'll
give, you have both thosehandles and I also have TikTok
as well.
And then to go further, ifanybody listens to this and
they're like not super pluggedinto social media, which I
totally respect and understand Ido have a Patreon that has three
different tiers, and the firsttier is just a free tier, and
it's basically my email list.
And it's just a way that you canstay in touch with me.

(56:33):
I am in Peru right now.
We don't have the dates out forour next retreat, which I will
assume is going to be in theSeptember, October, November
range, but we are doingone-on-one retreat.
So those, you get to choose yourdates obviously,'cause it's just
you.
And we do have a, actually thisThursday so I don't know when

(56:53):
this is gonna come out, butit'll be, it'll be posted to the
Patreon that it's$33 a month andyou get like one to two classes
with me on Thursday.
I am gonna be doing a luciddreaming class because every
virtual cacao diha that we'vedone, everybody's dreams have
been so like a major importantpiece of it.
And I haven't done a luciddreaming class probably in like
two or three years now.
So I figure now is the time,let's dive into it.

(57:15):
And then we start another fourweek virtual cacao diha in on
June 12th.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (57:21):
Very cool.
And all your offerings are onare probably through,

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (57:26):
Yep.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (57:27):
through that, so I know you got a lot
going on.
So yeah, check out, check, checkout Dan's

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (57:31):
Yes.

_1_05-26-2025_090757 (57:32):
the, and yeah, connect with her and.
Dan, thank you so much.
I appreciate your time and youropenness and willingness to
share, and I look forward tomany more conversations in the
future.

dan--she-her-_1_05-26-2025 (57:46):
Yes, likewise.
Thank you so much love.