Episode 2: How do we define and measure poverty and wealth, and what is the relationship between them?

In this episode, political philosopher Professor Jonathan Wolff and sociologist Professor Mike Savage join Sarah Kerr to explore whether and how a sharper focus on wealth - not just income - might be necessary for addressing poverty. Jo co-authored A Philosophical Review of Poverty with Edward Lamb and Eliana Zur-Szpiro in 2015. Ten years on, Jo talks to Sarah about how poverty is defined and measured.  They discuss the merits of income-based measures of poverty and explore the capabilities approach. Is there something specific about wealth as an economic resource that shapes poverty in particular ways? Is it helpful to think about 'wealth poverty'? In the second half of the show, Professor Mike Savage talks to Sarah about the history of wealth accumulation and the way that inequalities in wealth reinforce inequalities of race, sex and class. Mike makes the case that class politics today is shaped less by occupation and more by access to assets, and argues that the return of wealthy elites is reshaping society in ways we are only beginning to understand. Series 1 of Antisocial Economics: Talking about Wealth runs as a six-part special edition hosted by Dr Sarah Kerr.Sarah is a Research Fellow at the International Inequalities Institute. Her work focuses on the political and historical sociology of wealth. She completed her PhD at University College London and is the author of Wealth, Poverty and Enduring Inequality: Let’s Talk Wealtherty (2024). She is also co-author of Changing the Narrative on Wealth Inequality (2024) and Talking About Wealth Inequality (2025), with Michael Vaughan and Annalena Oppel. Antisocial Economics is a space for accessible, critical thinking about wealth as a social problem. The podcast explores the effects of extreme private wealth ownership on social cohesion and environmental sustainability. It asks what changes when we stop looking down at poverty and start looking up at wealth.