July 8, 2025 • 49 mins
In today's digital landscape, having your own website is more important than ever for true digital independence. Jordan Bravo and Stephen DeLorme explain how to register domain names and set up web hosting with minimal personal information and maximum privacy. They cover Bitcoin-accepting registrars, anonymous VPS providers, and how the domain name system really works. Plus, they discuss a controversial Bitcoin update proposal that highlights why running your own node matters.
Show Notes: https://atlbitlab.com/podcast/anonymous-website-hosting-and-domains
00:00 Why Own Websites Beat Social Media Platforms
00:35 Introduction and ATL BitLab Sponsorship
01:55 Welcome and Contact Information
02:26 News: Bitcoin Core Pull Request to Remove OP_Return Limits
07:29 Why This PR Highlights the Importance of Running Your Own Node
11:22 Main Topic: Private Domain Names and Hosting
12:35 Minimizing Personal Information When Registering Domains
13:29 NameCheap: Domain Registration with Bitcoin
15:57 Using Fake Information and Domain Privacy Guard
17:15 Domain Takedown Threat Model
20:18 DNSSEC for Enhanced Security
21:21 PorkBun: Another Private Domain Registrar
21:54 Private Hosting Options Introduction
22:54 Hostinger VPS Services
24:11 1984 Hosting in Iceland
24:46 Flokinet in Iceland
25:17 Why Personal Websites Matter in the Social Media Age
29:46 Websites vs. Censorship-prone Social Media Platforms
31:36 Avoiding Services Like LinkTree
35:01 Technical Side Discussion: How Domain Names Work
35:30 How ICANN, Registries, and Registrars Interoperate
40:14 How Authorities Can Take Down Domain Names
42:33 Trade-offs with Different TLDs (.com vs alternatives)
47:56 Boost Segment and Listener Appreciation
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
With social media, you are renting
(00:03):
an account on somebody else's server,
and you're playing by their rules.
And we've seen how in the past few
years, especially how easy it is for
people to get censored on social media
basically if, if they decide they don't
like what you're saying, then your
account can be shut off instantly.
When you have your own website, it is
a much higher bar to meet for a domain
(00:26):
name to be shut down than it is for a
social media account to be deactivated.
Welcome to the Sovereign Computing
Show, presented by ATL BitLab.
I'm Jordan Bravo, and this is a
podcast where we teach you how to
take back control of your devices.
Sovereign Computing means you own your
technology, not the other way around.
(00:50):
This episode is sponsored by ATL BitLab.
ATL BitLab is Atlanta's
freedom tech hacker space.
We have co working desks,
conference rooms, event space,
maker tools, and tons of coffee.
There is a very active
community here in the lab.
Every Wednesday night is
Bitcoin night here in Atlanta.
We also have meetups for cyber security,
artificial intelligence, decentralized
(01:10):
identity, product design, and more.
We offer day passes and nomad passes
for people who need to use the lab only
occasionally, as well as memberships
for people who plan to use the lab
more regularly, such as myself.
One of the best things about
having a BitLab membership isn't
the amenities, it's the people.
Surrounding yourself with a
community helps you learn faster
and helps you build better.
(01:31):
Your creativity becomes amplified
when you work in this space,
that's what I think at least.
If you're interested in becoming
a member or supporting this space,
please visit us at atlbitlab.
com.
That's A-T-L-B-I-T-L-A-B dot com.
Alright, on to our show.
Welcome to The Sovereign Computing Show.
(01:54):
I'm Jordan Bravo and I'm recording
today from ATL Bitlab here in the
heart of Atlanta with Stephen DeLorme.
Sup.
And we wanna remind you that
you can boost into the show
using the Fountain podcast app.
You can find that at Fountain.fm.
You can also email the show.
(02:15):
Our email address is
sovereign@atlbitlab.com.
And before we get into our main
topic today, we're going to talk
about an ongoing news event.
And this is about something that's
occurring in Bitcoin, The Bitcoin
(02:35):
Core repo has a pull request on it,
which means somebody is trying to add
a change to Bitcoin, and that would
be in this case, Peter Todd, who
is a well-known Bitcoin developer.
And the name of this pull request
is Remove arbitrary limit on
OP_Return (data carrier) outputs.
(02:58):
And what that means is currently there's
the OP_Return section of an output
and there's a limit on it, and this
proposes that, that limit be removed.
What is OP_Return?
OP_Return is a section in a
Bitcoin transaction that data
can be put into arbitrary data,
(03:20):
and it's not, it's not spendable.
So it can be any kind of data.
Typically, this is a message.
For example, if you wanted to inscribe
a message into a Bitcoin transaction,
then you would put it in the OP_Return.
And the reason this OP_Return
standard, or, or, OP code was created
(03:40):
was they wanted to give somewhere
for somebody to put data unrelated
to a transaction if they wanted to.
And the justification was that
people are going to do this anyway.
A lot of people are, you, you might
say Bitcoin monetary Maximalist would
say, the only reason to use Bitcoin
(04:02):
to send a transaction is to actually
move value from one address to another.
But you have other people that want
to use it to send arbitrary data,
like putting messages onto the
Bitcoin blockchain, putting JPEGs
or anything else, any kind of other
data unrelated to the transaction.
And so since people are doing that,
(04:24):
the reasoning was might as well
give them a place to do it, that
the nodes don't have to keep that
data around forever and therefore
accumulate a bunch of data that's
gonna bloat the storage requirements.
So at the time it was created, there
was a limit put in place of how
much data you could put in there.
Now, this pull request is
(04:46):
proposing to remove that limit.
And my understanding for the
reasoning behind it is that, people
are currently already getting around
this and they're putting it in the
transactions themselves with things
like inscriptions and these can be huge.
You make the transaction really large,
and because it's in the witness data,
(05:07):
the Bitcoin nodes have to keep this
data around and it's just going to
exponentially increase the storage
requirements for a Bitcoin node.
And so by giving, by removing the
limits on the OP_Return, you are
giving them an alternative where they
can put their inscriptions and their
other kind of arbitrary data without
(05:28):
putting it into the transaction itself.
That has to be kept.
So Stephen, did I nail that?
Did I-
I think so.
Flub it.
Is there anything that I'm missing there?
Yeah, I think that's,
that about covers it.
Like a couple finer points.
I'll go ahead and say, when opt
turn was invented, people actually
already were putting data on Bitcoin.
I forget the name of the game or the
project, whatever people were building.
(05:50):
But it, it was like a kind of a
problem that they were creating
these unspendable outputs.
That was the idea that like the data
they were storing on chain took the form
of like, outputs that were unsendable.
And so that's why the OP_Return was made.
It's like, well, let's
go ahead and make an OP.
You know, if people are already
doing this, let's make a way
for them to do it that's like
obviously provably unspendable.
(06:12):
And that way people who don't want to
keep the data can just throw it away.
And you mentioned inscriptions also one
thing that's mentioned in the discussion
for this is the Citrea project and,
you know, some kind of, you know,
watchtower thing that they're putting in
transaction outputs and its own spendable.
And so, another kind of like finer
point getting into the Bitcoin weeds.
(06:32):
I mean, this is a super, I, I actually
think the PR itself is very simple
in terms of what it changes, but the
concept in discussing it is incredibly
difficult, because I don't even
think it's consensus rules that are
changing it's standardness rules.
It's just like, it's, it's not
even like changing anything
about, uh, the consensus.
It's, it's changing anything about
like, whether, nodes will, add
(06:54):
it to their mempool and broadcast
it and share it with other nodes.
And because it's so difficult
to talk about, I think that's
the reason why there's actually
been a lot of kind of stress, in
the Bitcoin space over the past.
I don't know, a week or so.
Would you say this is a controversial PR?
I would say it's a controversial
PR and in my personal opinion,
I don't think it should be.
(07:14):
But I, I can understand because it is
such a complicated issue to talk about
and it is nuance and look, every people
have different opinions on this and
really smart people disagree about this.
You know, if we've lost anybody,
cause you know, there are some people
listening to this who maybe are tuning
in just to figure out how to be a
little bit more private or, you know,
to give up a little less more data.
(07:34):
We did, you know, cover running
Bitcoin nodes and lightning
nodes on a previous episode.
And I think the main takeaway
from all of this, if you didn't
understand any of the complicated,
you know, technical discussion.
The main idea is that this is a change
to the Bitcoin software and kind of
(07:56):
whether or not you agree with it or
disagree with it, unless you're running
your own node, you don't really get
to have a, a choice or a say in it.
Like, you know, you can voice opinions
and have discussion and all of that
kind of stuff, but at the protocol
layer for Bitcoin, uh, if you're
not running your own node, you don't
really get a say in this process here.
And so that's just another kind of
angle to cyber computing I think
(08:18):
sometimes we think about, uh, this
stuff strictly as just like, well, my
data and my privacy and all of that.
But when you get into projects like,
Bitcoin, and, and running your own
Bitcoin node, that's actually kind
of like what gives you a say, to
some degree and the kinds of features
and upgrades that Bitcoin undergoes.
(08:38):
So let's say I'm running my own node, and
just for the sake of argument, I do not
agree with, let's pose a hypothetical.
Let's say that this PR gets
merged and becomes a part of the
next version of Bitcoin Core.
We are currently on Bitcoin Core 28.1.
Let's say it becomes part of 28.2.
(08:59):
I'm not sure if that's actually
gonna be the version when it comes
out, but let's just say it is.
Mm-hmm.
If I'm running my own node and I disagree
with this decision and I do not want
that limit to be removed on my node that
I'm running, how would I prevent that?
That's pretty simple.
You just wouldn't update to the
latest version of Bitcoin Core.
(09:20):
Simple as that.
You just choose to remain on 28.1.
And I think it's worth pointing out that
for this exact type of reason, Bitcoin
Core is designed to not auto update.
In fact, you have to be pretty explicit
about updating it, running the newest
version, because when you run Bitcoin
(09:42):
Core, you are telling the rest of the
network, here's the set of rules that
I agree to, that I agree that to be a
part of and propagate transactions for.
And so if you were to have auto
updates on Bitcoin, that would
be a security vulnerability.
That would actually be an attack vector
(10:02):
where somebody could put in, uh, some kind
of malicious update and then push it out
to all the nodes that are auto updating.
So it's by design supposed to be
a somewhat manual process so that
you can decide for yourself if you
want to upgrade to the next version.
Yeah, and even assuming that there's,
even assuming there was no security
(10:23):
back doors or anything like that, it
just feels kind of like in line with
the Bitcoin ethos to that people should
choose which node version they want to
run because, you know, at the end of
the day, on the, at the protocol level,
the only true users are Bitcoin nodes.
Those are the, the users of the
Bitcoin protocol the nodes themselves.
(10:43):
Right.
And if you're not using your own
Bitcoin node, then you're using
somebody else's Bitcoin node and you
don't have any control over that.
Tell us what you think of this topic.
Do you find this to be a controversial PR?
If it gets merged and as part of Bitcoin,
are you going to upgrade your node?
Are you going to stick
with the current version?
Do you think this takes away some
(11:04):
of the sovereignty of node runners?
Let us know, you can boost in and
tell us with Fountain or another
Podcasting 2.0 app, or you can
email us at sovereign@atlbitlab.com.
For today's main topic, we're gonna
talk about how to get a domain name
as well as hosting in a private
(11:25):
self-sovereign manner, or at least as
self-sovereign as domain names can be.
I think that we should talk
about that particular issue
with the domain name system.
The domain name system has a, it's
inherently centralized because
there's a list of domain name
(11:47):
registrars and the ICANN, which
is the International Corporation-
for Assigned Names and Numbers.
Thank you.
International Corporation for Assigned
names and numbers, which is the
international body that regulates
or, uh, partitions out domain names.
And so ultimately there is a central point
(12:08):
of failure when it comes to domain names.
However, there's also a huge spectrum
of completely sovereign, which doesn't
technically exist, but pretty sovereign
and private with domain names all the way
to fully KYC and censrable and we're gonna
talk about how we can get as far towards
that self-sovereign spectrum as possible.
(12:31):
When you register for a domain name,
they might ask for everything from your
real name, address, phone number, bank
account, payment information, all the way
to the minimum amount possible, and that's
really what we're searching for here.
That minimum amount is going
to be an email address so that
(12:52):
you can simply have an account.
And for that you can use an alias like
simple login, which we've talked about in
a previous episode, if you are unfamiliar
with that, check out our episode on
email and email privacy, and you'll
get a whole bunch of good information
on how to get started with that.
And for payment, you wanna look for
something that accepts cryptocurrency
(13:13):
and specifically Bitcoin.
We're fans of Bitcoin here, although some
of them are gonna accept Monero as well.
And I would say that that's
certainly a tool that can be used.
Two examples that I wanna talk about first
for just straight domain name registration
are Namecheap, that's namecheap.com.
And uh, I've been using
(13:34):
this one for a long time.
NameCheap was one of the first
providers to first registrars to accept
Bitcoin and I have zero complaints
about NameCheap, as the name implies.
They are relatively cheap.
I haven't seen anywhere that has better
prices, so I think they have great prices.
And when I register with
(13:56):
NameCheap, I use the minimum
amount of information possible.
So the only thing that they
have is my email address.
Uh, of course, I create a
password to log into my account.
My email address is an alias, and then
when I go to pay, I select Bitcoin.
I simply top up my account balance
with Bitcoin and then I can buy any of
their products and services with it.
(14:18):
And one thing I'll note is that they
used, uh, they used BTC pay server, so
they're not using some third party KYC
Coinbase, uh, Coinbase commerce type thing
where it's, it's using cryptocurrency
supposedly, but really it's kind of just
like it's as bad as the legacy banking
(14:39):
system in terms of tracking you and,
and the data that you have to give up.
So this one I consider BTC pay
server to be a legit sort of Bitcoin
native way to, to pay for it.
And they do indeed support that here.
I actually did not know that there were,
like we were talking about before the
show started, I was not even aware that
(15:01):
there were domain name registrars that
don't KYC or not, I shouldn't say KYC, but
they don't ask for lots of information.
I, I guess I never considered it
'cause I'm usually, buying domains on
a business context and you know, as
a result I don't kind of worry about
it as much, 'cause I kind of just
feel like, okay, you know, business
(15:22):
details are kind of doxed anyways.
And so, especially if you're public
about your business, so, I, I guess
I never really thought about it.
I, I just assumed this whole
system had been fully captured.
Well, it's, it's good to know that there's
a way to do it in a much more private
manner, and when you are filling out your
(15:44):
information, you have to give out your
name and address for the domain, like
once you're within your NameCheap account,
Mm-hmm.
I am not telling you to break any kind of
laws, but nobody is going to blink twice
if you put in fake information in there.
So the, the name and address
and all of that, just use a,
(16:05):
uh, user generator website.
Just look those up and you
get a, a nice randomized name,
address, and phone number.
And then in addition to that, you
want to utilize domain privacy guard
NameCheap offers that for free.
Many registrars also offer that as well,
what that does is it offers you a layer
(16:25):
of privacy between the public and that
that name, that information that you gave.
Now, even though that you're putting
in the fake information, it's still
nice to have it so that if somebody is
pinging your website from the public,
they can't really glean, it'll just
say domain by some privacy company,
privacy guard or something like that.
(16:45):
So that, that's what gives you a layer
of privacy from the public and then from
the domain name registrar itself, that
fake information that you're putting in
there and lack of a payment information
is going to protect you from the registrar
themselves, so that even if they were
co-opted or forced to via court order,
(17:06):
they would know nothing about you and they
couldn't give you a, as far as censorship,
yes.
There is an ultimately a way where a
law enforcement organization could go
to the domain name registrar and if
they had a court order, I'm not even
sure what that process would look like.
Maybe we can war game this out.
You know how, let's say some government
(17:27):
agency wanted to censor a website and
they were registered with very private
details, how would they take them down?
Well, I mean, I think the simplest
solution is if, I mean, if the domain
name is registered with private details,
if, if, if they want the website to go
down, then that would just be as simple
as I, I think just do they have a legally
(17:50):
binding way to order, order the registrar
to kind of halt that user's account.
Like if the root name servers take
down the like a record and all the
other like DNS records, then the
other DNS servers around the world,
you know, their the records will
eventually expire on their servers.
'cause they all have a time to live.
(18:11):
They won't be able to refresh their
DNS records from the root name server.
Uh, so that's how I would see it
happening, being the web server,
like whatever, web server, uh,
in question could, could still be
running, and that doesn't really
change or affect that in any way.
But, if you just attack the root
domain name, I think that's a,
a pretty quick way to make the
(18:32):
website not work for 99% of people.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong,
but there's two different
areas that could be attacked.
There's the name server.
Mm-hmm.
Which is where you have a decentralized
system of name servers all around the
internet and those tell, those tell users
or anybody that's trying to reach the
(18:53):
website, what IP address to, to point to.
Yep.
Then you have the registrar itself, which
says, this account is, has registered
this domain name and therefore whatever
settings they've put in their dashboard,
what whatever IP address they're pointing
at, that's what we're gonna honor.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
(19:14):
I mean, the registrars are just
kind of like, you know, businesses
that, able to, you know, sell
particular domain names to users.
But you have the, like, the root name
servers that actually like, handle, like,
which, uh, 'cause you've got the name
servers for any given domain name, right?
(19:35):
So like for atlbitlab.com, you can
do a lookup, you can figure out
what the name servers are and the
name servers host those DNS records.
Um, those are like the, the,
like a, the authoritative place
where the IP addresses, for, you
know, that website can be found.
And, but how do you
find those name servers?
(19:55):
Well, you have to get that
information from the root name server.
That's my understanding of it at least.
So yeah, you would, you would basically,
you would either want to, I guess, attack
the name servers themselves, or you'd have
to tell the root name server to like, you
know, stop pointing to those name servers.
But I'm not sure.
I wanted to mention a feature
(20:16):
that many domain name registrars,
including NameCheap support and
that is DNS sec. That's D-N-S-S-E-C.
And that stands for DNS
Security something something.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But it's basically what this does
is it prevents another kind of
attack, which is a, a domain, a name
server, spoofing, or any kind of
(20:38):
name, server interruption or attack.
Now, we've seen this before where
organizations would go after domain name,
resolvers and name servers and put in
different information so that even though
a website was still up and running,
people, users could not get to it because
they would type in the domain name and
it would point to a different server.
(21:00):
And so you can actually mitigate
that by ensuring you have DNS
SEC enabled on your domain name.
That's really cool.
I was looking for like a knowledge
based thing, but about it.
But I think that's great.
DNS SEC is awesome.
An advocate for it and I did
not know Namecheap supported
it, so that's really cool.
Before we move on to hosting, which
(21:20):
is a little bit of a different
topic then domain names themselves.
I wanted to shout out to a
registrar called Porkbun.
I have not personally used this
one, but I've heard that they also
support, um, anonymous registration
and they accept Bitcoin as well.
(21:41):
This is the website right here?
Yep.
They have pigs all over their website.
porkbun.com
Yeah.
Nice.
Let's move into hosting now,
which is slightly different
than the domain name itself.
Hosting is a server where your website
or application is actually gonna run,
and so your domain name and your hosting
(22:04):
do not have to be on the same site, in
fact, it's kind of nice to have them
decouple and beyond different services.
However, this next hosting provider
that I'm gonna talk about offers
both hosting and domain names.
In fact, a lot of service providers
offer both because they wanna make
it convenient, like a one stop shop.
(22:24):
You know, if I am, if I'm not super
technical and I wanna make a website
for my church or my, you know, my club
or my home crafting shop, I might go
to a single site and I want them to
give me a domain name, host my website
and even build the website for me.
So there's, there's all in one providers,
(22:45):
but I always think it's, it's a good
idea to have them separated out.
However, this one that I'm
recommending is a great provider.
They're called Hostinger and it's
hostinger.com is the domain name.
And I am currently using
this for a VPS that I have.
A VPS is a Virtual Private Server.
(23:07):
And this is basically your
own Linux server in the cloud.
And you can do pretty much anything
with a VPS from hosting a full on
application to a simple personal website.
And what I like about Hostinger is
that again, they, they require only the
minimal amount of information, just an
(23:27):
email address, which you can use an alias
for, and then you can pay in Bitcoin.
And so I have a VPS that's
running for a reverse proxy for
all of my personal services.
And I've, um, as far as Hostinger
knows I'm just an account number.
One thing you wanna be aware of
when you're connecting to your VPS
provider is to you make sure your
(23:49):
VPN is enabled, that way you are
obscuring your home IP address.
And you can check out our previous
Sovereign computing episode on
VPNs for more details on that.
Hmm.
Never heard of this.
That's cool.
Nice looking website.
Another hosting provider that gives,
(24:09):
that has VPSs that you can pay in Bitcoin
and stay anonymous is 1984.hosting.
They're located in Iceland,
which is famous for their
privacy and digital sovereignty.
They accept both Bitcoin and Monero.
And again, they have, uh, good prices and
(24:30):
minimal amount of information required.
Yeah, they're flying their Bitcoin
and Monero flags, uh, pretty,
uh, proudly on their homepage.
I love that.
The last one I wanna give
a mention to is FlokiNET.
This is another Iceland service provider.
(24:51):
And they have pretty cheap 3.50 euros a
month is, is a great price in my opinion.
Uh, they also have VPSs and other
types of hosting, and again, they will
collect the minimum amount, amount of
data, which is just an email address
and they allow you to pay in Bitcoin.
Hmm.
That's cool.
(25:13):
We talked about hosting providers, and
we talked about domain name providers.
Is there anything else you
can think of when it comes to
getting a website up and running?
Maybe we could talk about reasons
you would want to even do that in
the first place, servers, et cetera.
Well, I mean.
(25:33):
That's actually a good question in the
modern age because I think a lot of
the narrative publicly has just shifted
the social media, and a lot of times.
I think websites are great.
I think having a homepage is great.
I think it's kind of like your
static fixed place on the internet.
(25:54):
It's really nice if you have your personal
website and even if you don't have like
a product or a business or something
professional you want to do with it,
it's kind of fun that you get to have
your personal site, that is, is kind of
constructed the way you like it to be.
And I think we kinda lost
that magic a little bit.
That was like a fun thing in the nineties
(26:17):
and early two thousands to be able to
like have your personal homepage and
even if it was, you know, it could
be, you know, there are people who may
like, this is my shrine to whatever,
Dragon Ball Z character or page.
And then, you know, you'd have other
people just like, you know, here's some of
my favorite bands and my favorite books.
And it's like, I, I, I don't know.
That all feels very quaint now, but
(26:38):
there was something kind of magical
about that, that everybody had their
little home on the internet and, I
think, you know, I kind of wish, uh,
that we'd bring some more of that back.
A lot of people have, just pivoted to
social media, which is fine, but it's
something different, social media,
and you don't really control it.
And there's nothing really that
feels fixed and permanent about it.
(26:59):
And there's of course attempts like,
you know, Nostr and stuff like that to
try and decentralize that, but I think
there's something kind of beautiful,
which is about having your own website.
Then having said that, there's also
you know what, if you want to run your
own business or run a website for, you
know, your, your club, your church,
your company, whatever it is, so these
are good skills to be able to have.
(27:21):
You know, as always, I think it's
just nice to be kind of liberated
from the big service providers.
A lot of times when you get onto, plans
with like a software company, uh, a lot
of your decision making, I think revolves
around like, what plan do I need to
be on and like, how many transactions
(27:41):
or how many pages do I get, or how
many products can I add to this store?
And a lot of times when, uh, you're
able to, you know, host your own
website, you don't have that kind of
concern, like for example of like, uh,
I see on, uh, you know, uh, was it,
did they mention on this, on Floki?
Yeah.
Like, okay.
(28:01):
I don't know about this one, but one
of 'em mentioned WordPress, right?
So like 1984 it mentioned that hosting
mentions WordPress on their page.
And if you want to go and sell something
online and you go to like big cartel or,
Shopify or whatever other website you're
(28:23):
gonna be like, it's gonna be like, well,
$30 a month minimum for your store or this
percent in transaction fees or like, you
can list up 10 products on the free plan.
Right.
I'm not saying that's exactly
what their business model is.
I've just, I've seen that a lot of
times with e-commerce hosting providers.
Uh, it's a very common thing.
And I think that factors into your
(28:44):
decision making, whereas if you just like
went to one of these webs hosts, deployed
a WordPress store, set up WooCommerce,
you could get a proof of concept website
up and running very quickly, and hook
that up to like a free stripe account
for credit cards or like pointed
to your BTC Pay server for Bitcoin.
And then you have maximum freedom,
cause you're, you're in the, like,
WordPress open source ecosystem
(29:05):
and it gets a lot of, you know,
shade thrown at it these days.
But it has a huge,
powerful plugin ecosystem.
Like, there's a lot that you can do
that, if you want to try and do with
platforms like Webflow and all these
other centralized platforms, you just
have to pay an arm and a leg for a lot
of the, the basic features and stuff.
(29:26):
So, I don't know.
That was kind of a rant, but I just,
you know, I think there's something
beautiful about personal websites
that I wish we would bring back.
And I also think that, you know, you
have maximum amount of freedom, when you
think about hosting your own website.
Agreed on all of those points and
sort of building on top of that with
social media, you are renting an
(29:50):
account on somebody else's server,
and you're playing by their rules.
And we've seen how in the past few
years, especially how easy it is for
people to get censored on social media
basically if, if they decide they don't
like what you're saying, then your
account can be shut off instantly.
When you have your own website, while we
talked about, it's because of the domain
(30:11):
name system is ultimately centralized.
It is a much higher barrier or a, a
much higher bar to meet for a domain
name to be shut down than it is for a
social media account to be deactivated.
So in order for it, it's very rare that
you would know anybody that's actually
(30:31):
had a website uh, domain name taken
down by some federal authorities, right?
Like they, they often have to go
to, they have to go to a federal
level, and sometimes even an
international level, depending on
the registrar, or the registry.
And this is like, in order for them
to disrupt a registrar's business like
(30:53):
that, they have to have a legit cause.
Typically, if you're just saying
some mean stuff on your website or
something that the, uh, other people
disagree with, they're not gonna
be able to get your website shut
down from the domain name level.
So this is a much higher
level of self sovereignty and
ownership over your whole stack.
(31:14):
So you have the lower censorship,
you also have the greater permanence,
as you mentioned, you can have your
website around forever, whereas
social media comes and goes.
And then you'll have something convenient.
Like there's actually, have you, have
you heard about LinkTree, Stephen?
I know.
Yes, I have.
Yeah.
So LinkTree is, it's kind of fun to
(31:34):
laugh at the fact that this site is so
popular, but LinkTree is just a website
that you can list your various links.
So it's like, oh, I, I have, here's
my, my Twitter and my Instagram and my
Facebook, blah, blah, blah, and, and
just to find all of that, go to LinkTree
so you only have to remember one thing.
Well, if you have your own
website, you don't need a LinkTree.
(31:54):
You know, I could have Jordan
bravo.com and I could say, go to
jordanbravo.com to contact me and
it'll have my email address and all
the other ways that you can contact me.
Whereas, if I didn't have my own
website, I would say go to LinkTree and
then search for Jordan Bravo and, oh,
shoot, somebody else already claimed
that, so here's a one after my name.
(32:16):
And you know, it's just, it's much less
professional and you, you absolutely do
not own it in any way, shape, or form.
Yeah.
LinkTree is like, wow.
I mean like, maybe this is like
a side tangent, but I, as someone
who's grown up with the web.
It is like infuriating to me to see
like not infuriating, just frustrating.
(32:36):
I don't, I don't always understand it.
These experiences that like limit what
we can do but become so popular and so
like Instagram is one of those, it's
like I see artists and photographers
and you know, any kind of content
creator basically like conforming to
(32:57):
the you know, squareish aspect ratio
of Instagram because, you know, well
it has to fit on Instagram and like
arranging things so that they're spaced
out and look a certain way and your feed.
So it's like their work is now being
dictated by the feed on Instagram
versus with a website, you have this
(33:17):
whole canvas to work with and you
can arrange things however you want.
And it's the same with LinkTree.
It's like, if you want to have a personal
homepage, like that's what this is,
this is like your home on the web.
It's like your personal homepage.
Here's all of the stuff that I'm
involved in, but all it is is a
page with like three or four links
on it, and it's like, so this is
(33:38):
something like people pay for this.
Like people pay for a service that lets
you make what at its core is essentially
just an HTML file with three links in it.
I mean, I'm, I get it, like I'm,
we're looking at the page here.
There's like some pretty stuff
you can style it for your, you
know, unique Gen Z personality.
Okay, I get that.
But like, it's just weird, the fact that
(34:00):
we're paying like all this money just for
a page with like a couple of links on it.
Like, that's like how just
like centralized the web
has become and it's weird.
I agree.
I appreciate the rant.
That's kind of what I was alluding to and
I'm glad you said it the way you said it.
One last thing I I'd point out when
(34:20):
you have your own domain name is
we talked about the, in the episode
on email addresses, how to decouple
your email address and really take
ownership and sovereignty over that.
And in order to do that, you
really need your own domain name.
And so by having your own domain name, you
have the power to have your own website.
You have the power to have your
(34:41):
own email address with an infinite
number of, of, email names at that
address, inboxes you could say.
So it really gives you, it kind of
makes you a, a citizen of the internet
rather than a surf of the internet.
Sounds good to me.
Jordan and I got off on a side
tangent that we think that many of
(35:01):
you are going to find very interesting
especially if you're curious about
how this technology works, curious
about failure scenarios with domain
names and, and, and all of that.
Um, but we've moved it to the end of
the conversation so that we were able
to get through all of the product
suggestions and all that at the beginning.
So if you're interested to
really, really dive deep.
(35:22):
And get into some interesting territory.
Keep listening.
I, I think it's worth talking this
through a little bit because the way
that the domain name system works.
I'm actually asking this now because
I've never thought about this exact
Mm-hmm.
Part of it, which is how does
ICANN a portion domain names to
(35:42):
registrars, and then how is control
or ownership of it transferred.
For example, to a registrar and
then from a registrar to a user.
I don't know.
Should we ask Maple?
I, I think we could do that.
And we, we may or may not wanna edit this
(36:05):
Yeah.
Into me how, uh, ICANN, um, and
registrars, uh, interoperate, uh, for
example, if a registrar a, um, provisions.
Um, example.com to Alice.
(36:26):
Um, how, uh, does, um, uh, how does
registrar, I can't type right now,
how does at Registrar B, um, uh.
How do we prevent red, just straw b from
(36:50):
also provisioning, um, example.com to Bob.
And this is also like a Llama model that
I think doesn't have access to the open
internet, but this is also like knowledge
(37:10):
that's been around for a while, so it
wouldn't surprise me if it's been around.
So ICANN registers interoperate
through system that ensures uniqueness
of domain name registrations
across different registrars.
Here's a simplified
overview of the process.
ICANN is responsible for managing the
global domain name system and ensuring
that each domain name is unique.
ICANN maintains a centralized
database known as the Root Zone, which
(37:32):
contains the authoritative records
for all top level domains such as
.com, dot org, dot net registries.
For each TLD, there is a corresponding
registry that manages the domain
name registrations within that TLD.
For example, Verisign is the
registry for .com and.net.
Registries are responsible for
maintaining the authoritative
database for their respective TLDs.
Registrars, registrars such as
(37:53):
registrar A and B are accredited by
ICANN to sell domain name registrations
to customers like Alice and Bob.
Registrars interact with the registries
to provision and manage domain name
registrations to prevent duplicate
registrations such as, uh, Reg B
provisioning example.com to Bob when it's
already registered to Alice through A,
the following mechanisms are in place,
(38:13):
EPP, Extensible Provisioning Protocol.
That's a mouthful.
Registrars use EPP to communicate with
the registry for their respective TLD.
Uh, when a registrar attempts to
register a domain name, they send
an EPP request to the registry.
The registry checks if the domain
name is available, and if so, it
creates a new registration record.
Registry Lock, when a registrar
successfully registers the domain
(38:34):
name, the registry locks the
domain name to prevent other
registrars from registering it.
This lock is implemented
through the EPP protocol.
WHOIS Database, each registry maintains a
WHOIS database that contains information
about registered domain names including
the registrar, record registrant, contact
information and name server details.
so it sounds like, okay, so this
flow is probably a good description.
Registrar A sends an EPP
(38:55):
request to the .com registry.
The registry checks if
example.com is available.
And if so, creates a
new registration record.
The registry locks example.com to prevent
other registrars from registering it.
Got it.
So basically it looks like there's
just this kind of database called
the registry and all the registrars
have to talk to this registry
to see if it's available or not.
(39:15):
And the, the root name server, the
registry, I'm assuming that the registry
is the one that controls the, uh, root
like name, authoritative name server
for .com, .net, whatever your CD is.
Yeah.
Verisign.
In the case of .com it says.
Yeah.
Can you ask it one more question?
Yeah.
Say, if some authorities such as
(39:38):
the FBI wanted to take down a domain
name, how would they go about it
and where are the points of failure?
(40:09):
So if an authority like the FBI wants
to take down domain, they, you know,
coordinate with various stakeholders,
uh, identification investigation.
FBI identifies the domain in the
question, conducts an investigation to
gather evidence of illicit activities.
Obtaining a court order, the FBI
contains a court order that warrants
them to seize or suspend the domain,
US federal court issues says.
Notify the registrar, FBI notifies
(40:31):
the registrar of record for the
domain, GoDaddy, Namecheap, et cetera,
provides them with the court order.
Registrar's response, the registrar
typically comply with the court order
by suspending the domain name, making
it an accessible to the public.
And then the, the registrar will
transfer the domain name to a holding
account or a new registrar effectively
taking control of the domain.
And then they update the who has
records to reflect the change in status.
(40:52):
And I'm assuming that happens
through that EPP protocol that
was discussed in the previous one.
Registry involvement, if the registrar
is unable to take action, or if the
domain name is registered with a
registrar that is not cooperative, the
FBI may need to involve the registry
that would be verified for .coms, so
the registry can then update the root
zone and who has records to reflect the
suspension or transfer of the domain name.
(41:14):
And then name server updates.
The FBI may also need to update the name
server records for the domain name to
point a new IP address or a holding page.
So yeah.
This is cool.
These points of failure.
Points of failure,
non-cooperative registrars.
So yeah, obviously that would
prevent the FBI from taking down.
Domain name proxy services, if the
domain name is registered through a
(41:34):
proxy service, it may be more challenging
for the FBI to identify the true
owner of the domain intake action.
Yeah.
I think a caveat on that is like just
because the human is proxied, if they want
the website to be taken down, you could
still ask the registry to take it down.
Right.
That with number one, non-cooperative
registrars, it says if the registrar
(41:55):
is not based in the US, or is not
willing to comply with the order.
The FBI may face difficulties
in taking down the domain name.
That's the one that intrigues me because
I'm thinking there's gotta be registrars
in different jurisdictions that are
attractive for privacy minded people who
you know, like they're gonna be the same
way you have jurisdictional arbitrage.
You have some jurisdictions that
(42:15):
are more favorable for privacy.
I would guess that there are certain
domain name registrars in different
jurisdictions that might have a
little more backbone when it comes to
standing up against take down orders.
Yeah, and it could be the case.
I think, it's interesting because,
you know, a lot of times it's so
easy to buy domain names these days,
(42:37):
and we have so many TLDs to choose
from, but kind of a different level
of service from uh, different TLDs.
So for example, like.com is the
most ubiquitous and they're a little
bit pricey these days, and a lot
of the good ones have been taken.
But, I've, I've found a pretty flat,
consistent level of service with those.
(42:57):
But then, you know, you'll run into some
that have special considerations like.
I think for like .movie, you need
to like kind of like prove that you
have like a, a film in distribution.
.film, you can get pretty liberally,
but .movie I think requires more, uh,
you know, stuff or like .dev is supposed
(43:17):
to be for like developer related stuff.
I don't know if Google,
Google runs that one.
I don't know if they've ever taken
anybody down, but it's reserved for that.
And it's also one of the pricier ones too.
.app is incredibly pricey.
Cause it's like so desirable.
They, you know, you people, uh, with
SaaS, software, you know, startups,
want that .app domain and are willing
to, you know, pay a premium for it.
(43:38):
Uh, but then you get into
stuff like the the .io and.
I did, did we talk about that
on another episode or something?
That, that, you know, like .io
was like the famous, you know,
Indian Ocean.
Yeah.
Is that what it is?
Indian Ocean.
I was saying it was the
famous like, technology, like
website, you know, you end-
(43:58):
We, we talked about that, but I
don't think it was on an episode.
Okay.
But yeah, so like the .io, it's just.
It's like in the, you know, 2010s.
It was like every cool, like developer
project had a .io domain name.
It just like, it was like your way of
signaling your, like what, you know,
in the tech industry or whatever.
Input output.
Yeah, I guess so.
But, uh, the thing about it was that,
(44:20):
uh, yeah, there was like some, I don't
know, issue recently where the registrar
was going down or something like that.
I think what happened was, I
think last year, maybe 2024, 2023.
But there was a change in jurisdiction
because, whatever country the .io name
was part of, it was previously a British
(44:41):
colony or territory, something like that.
And then that territory or colony
got its independence or some kind of
change in the jurisdiction of no longer
being under that British authority.
And so there was a new whole
jurisdictional system for them.
And therefore, the domain name
now is going to a new owner, so
(45:02):
to speak, a new l ike authority.
And that authority did not have to
honor the existing domain names.
So I didn't follow what
ended up happening with that.
But there were kind of two possibilities.
One was they would, going forward,
they would continue to honor existing
domain name registrations and it
would just sort of go on as usual.
And the other was like, they
would just say no, we're starting
(45:24):
over with, with .io domains.
Yeah.
And so I guess, you know, we'll have
to check the status of that later.
But the point with that is that it
was a scare, like, there can be these
interruptions in service, especially when
you're dealing with like, you know, like
a registrar and like some colony out in
the ocean or whatever like it's just not
the same as like having a .com through.
(45:45):
Another example is .xyz.
This has become the new hip
tech project name to have like
your website ending in .xyz.
But this was actually an issue in the
Fediment community, because there were
people trying to start federations,
which were kind of like these community
Bitcoin banks to put it succinctly.
And, uh, some federations had started and
(46:06):
the guardians of those federations, the
people who like the node, the node runners
who kind of run the bank, they had XYZ
domain names for their guardian nodes.
And some of the guardians went down
because for some reason, the XYZ, uh,
like domain Regi, like I, I guess it was
the XYZ registry or I, I don't know what
(46:28):
step in the process this happened, but a
bunch of XYZ domain names got taken down.
It was actually this huge kerfuffle
Fediment and the, the Fediment
team eventually, you know,
created a fix for the problem.
And so those guardians were
able to get back up and running
under different domain names.
But it is a problem.
So it's like, you, you go through a.com
(46:48):
domain name, and I think it's a very
stable, robust, steady level of service.
But you are kind of in
the system, so to speak.
You can go through these other TLDs that
go through, like other, you know, like
other countries and stuff and you may the
regulations, requirements may be a little
(47:10):
bit different for those, but there's
also kind of like this risk of like,
what if something happens with that TLD?
Not saying you shouldn't use those,
it's just there's trade offs.
Alright, now why are we
even talking about this?
Are we trying to foment a revolution
where the FBI is gonna come after us and
our listeners and take down our websites?
(47:30):
Probably not.
However, it's one of many steps in
building up our sovereign computing
life, our, our digital fortress, and
each of these steps by themselves is
not, make or break, do or die, but
it's, it's layers of security and
privacy that build a solid foundation.
(47:52):
Alright, let's read some boost.
We got a boost from Clockwork for 500 SATs
and I believe that was on the episode of,
I think it was just, it
was on the show itself.
On the show itself.
Alright, well thank you Clockwork.
We appreciate your boost.
A silent boost.
Silent boost.
Just.
No message.
Just appreciate your support there.
(48:13):
And then we also got some
streaming SATs from Weird Robot.
So thank you.
Weird robot.
1200 SATs were streamed in.
We really appreciate that.
Appreciate the support
and that you're listening.
Remember, if you, if any of you would like
to support the show, you can boost in or
stream SATs with an app like Fountain.
(48:35):
You can also email us.
Our email address is
sovereign@atlbitlab.com and stay tuned
for more ways to contact us in the future.
We're gonna be adding a
matrix room anytime soon.
We've been teasing that for a while
and we promise you it is coming soon.
Tm, that's trademark for soon.
(48:57):
Anything else you wanna
cover today, Stephen?
No, I think, uh, I think I'm good.
Alright.
Thanks a lot everybody, and
we'll see you next time.
Catch you later.
Hey, thanks for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you want to learn more about
anything that we discussed, you can
look for links in the show notes that
should be in your podcast player, or
you can go to atlbitlab.com/podcast.
(49:20):
On a final note, if you found
this information useful and you
want to help support us, you can
always send us a tip in Bitcoin.
Your support really helps us so that we
can keep bringing you content like this.
All right.
Catch you later.
With social media, you are renting
(00:03):
an account on somebody else's server,
and you're playing by their rules.
And we've seen how in the past few
years, especially how easy it is for
people to get censored on social media
basically if, if they decide they don't
like what you're saying, then your
account can be shut off instantly.
When you have your own website, it is
a much higher bar to meet for a domain
(00:26):
name to be shut down than it is for a
social media account to be deactivated.
Welcome to the Sovereign Computing
Show, presented by ATL BitLab.
I'm Jordan Bravo, and this is a
podcast where we teach you how to
take back control of your devices.
Sovereign Computing means you own your
technology, not the other way around.
(00:50):
This episode is sponsored by ATL BitLab.
ATL BitLab is Atlanta's
freedom tech hacker space.
We have co working desks,
conference rooms, event space,
maker tools, and tons of coffee.
There is a very active
community here in the lab.
Every Wednesday night is
Bitcoin night here in Atlanta.
We also have meetups for cyber security,
artificial intelligence, decentralized
(01:10):
identity, product design, and more.
We offer day passes and nomad passes
for people who need to use the lab only
occasionally, as well as memberships
for people who plan to use the lab
more regularly, such as myself.
One of the best things about
having a BitLab membership isn't
the amenities, it's the people.
Surrounding yourself with a
community helps you learn faster
and helps you build better.
(01:31):
Your creativity becomes amplified
when you work in this space,
that's what I think at least.
If you're interested in becoming
a member or supporting this space,
please visit us at atlbitlab.
com.
That's A-T-L-B-I-T-L-A-B dot com.
Alright, on to our show.
Welcome to The Sovereign Computing Show.
(01:54):
I'm Jordan Bravo and I'm recording
today from ATL Bitlab here in the
heart of Atlanta with Stephen DeLorme.
Sup.
And we wanna remind you that
you can boost into the show
using the Fountain podcast app.
You can find that at Fountain.fm.
You can also email the show.
(02:15):
Our email address is
sovereign@atlbitlab.com.
And before we get into our main
topic today, we're going to talk
about an ongoing news event.
And this is about something that's
occurring in Bitcoin, The Bitcoin
(02:35):
Core repo has a pull request on it,
which means somebody is trying to add
a change to Bitcoin, and that would
be in this case, Peter Todd, who
is a well-known Bitcoin developer.
And the name of this pull request
is Remove arbitrary limit on
OP_Return (data carrier) outputs.
(02:58):
And what that means is currently there's
the OP_Return section of an output
and there's a limit on it, and this
proposes that, that limit be removed.
What is OP_Return?
OP_Return is a section in a
Bitcoin transaction that data
can be put into arbitrary data,
(03:20):
and it's not, it's not spendable.
So it can be any kind of data.
Typically, this is a message.
For example, if you wanted to inscribe
a message into a Bitcoin transaction,
then you would put it in the OP_Return.
And the reason this OP_Return
standard, or, or, OP code was created
(03:40):
was they wanted to give somewhere
for somebody to put data unrelated
to a transaction if they wanted to.
And the justification was that
people are going to do this anyway.
A lot of people are, you, you might
say Bitcoin monetary Maximalist would
say, the only reason to use Bitcoin
(04:02):
to send a transaction is to actually
move value from one address to another.
But you have other people that want
to use it to send arbitrary data,
like putting messages onto the
Bitcoin blockchain, putting JPEGs
or anything else, any kind of other
data unrelated to the transaction.
And so since people are doing that,
(04:24):
the reasoning was might as well
give them a place to do it, that
the nodes don't have to keep that
data around forever and therefore
accumulate a bunch of data that's
gonna bloat the storage requirements.
So at the time it was created, there
was a limit put in place of how
much data you could put in there.
Now, this pull request is
(04:46):
proposing to remove that limit.
And my understanding for the
reasoning behind it is that, people
are currently already getting around
this and they're putting it in the
transactions themselves with things
like inscriptions and these can be huge.
You make the transaction really large,
and because it's in the witness data,
(05:07):
the Bitcoin nodes have to keep this
data around and it's just going to
exponentially increase the storage
requirements for a Bitcoin node.
And so by giving, by removing the
limits on the OP_Return, you are
giving them an alternative where they
can put their inscriptions and their
other kind of arbitrary data without
(05:28):
putting it into the transaction itself.
That has to be kept.
So Stephen, did I nail that?
Did I-
I think so.
Flub it.
Is there anything that I'm missing there?
Yeah, I think that's,
that about covers it.
Like a couple finer points.
I'll go ahead and say, when opt
turn was invented, people actually
already were putting data on Bitcoin.
I forget the name of the game or the
project, whatever people were building.
(05:50):
But it, it was like a kind of a
problem that they were creating
these unspendable outputs.
That was the idea that like the data
they were storing on chain took the form
of like, outputs that were unsendable.
And so that's why the OP_Return was made.
It's like, well, let's
go ahead and make an OP.
You know, if people are already
doing this, let's make a way
for them to do it that's like
obviously provably unspendable.
(06:12):
And that way people who don't want to
keep the data can just throw it away.
And you mentioned inscriptions also one
thing that's mentioned in the discussion
for this is the Citrea project and,
you know, some kind of, you know,
watchtower thing that they're putting in
transaction outputs and its own spendable.
And so, another kind of like finer
point getting into the Bitcoin weeds.
(06:32):
I mean, this is a super, I, I actually
think the PR itself is very simple
in terms of what it changes, but the
concept in discussing it is incredibly
difficult, because I don't even
think it's consensus rules that are
changing it's standardness rules.
It's just like, it's, it's not
even like changing anything
about, uh, the consensus.
It's, it's changing anything about
like, whether, nodes will, add
(06:54):
it to their mempool and broadcast
it and share it with other nodes.
And because it's so difficult
to talk about, I think that's
the reason why there's actually
been a lot of kind of stress, in
the Bitcoin space over the past.
I don't know, a week or so.
Would you say this is a controversial PR?
I would say it's a controversial
PR and in my personal opinion,
I don't think it should be.
(07:14):
But I, I can understand because it is
such a complicated issue to talk about
and it is nuance and look, every people
have different opinions on this and
really smart people disagree about this.
You know, if we've lost anybody,
cause you know, there are some people
listening to this who maybe are tuning
in just to figure out how to be a
little bit more private or, you know,
to give up a little less more data.
(07:34):
We did, you know, cover running
Bitcoin nodes and lightning
nodes on a previous episode.
And I think the main takeaway
from all of this, if you didn't
understand any of the complicated,
you know, technical discussion.
The main idea is that this is a change
to the Bitcoin software and kind of
(07:56):
whether or not you agree with it or
disagree with it, unless you're running
your own node, you don't really get
to have a, a choice or a say in it.
Like, you know, you can voice opinions
and have discussion and all of that
kind of stuff, but at the protocol
layer for Bitcoin, uh, if you're
not running your own node, you don't
really get a say in this process here.
And so that's just another kind of
angle to cyber computing I think
(08:18):
sometimes we think about, uh, this
stuff strictly as just like, well, my
data and my privacy and all of that.
But when you get into projects like,
Bitcoin, and, and running your own
Bitcoin node, that's actually kind
of like what gives you a say, to
some degree and the kinds of features
and upgrades that Bitcoin undergoes.
(08:38):
So let's say I'm running my own node, and
just for the sake of argument, I do not
agree with, let's pose a hypothetical.
Let's say that this PR gets
merged and becomes a part of the
next version of Bitcoin Core.
We are currently on Bitcoin Core 28.1.
Let's say it becomes part of 28.2.
(08:59):
I'm not sure if that's actually
gonna be the version when it comes
out, but let's just say it is.
Mm-hmm.
If I'm running my own node and I disagree
with this decision and I do not want
that limit to be removed on my node that
I'm running, how would I prevent that?
That's pretty simple.
You just wouldn't update to the
latest version of Bitcoin Core.
(09:20):
Simple as that.
You just choose to remain on 28.1.
And I think it's worth pointing out that
for this exact type of reason, Bitcoin
Core is designed to not auto update.
In fact, you have to be pretty explicit
about updating it, running the newest
version, because when you run Bitcoin
(09:42):
Core, you are telling the rest of the
network, here's the set of rules that
I agree to, that I agree that to be a
part of and propagate transactions for.
And so if you were to have auto
updates on Bitcoin, that would
be a security vulnerability.
That would actually be an attack vector
(10:02):
where somebody could put in, uh, some kind
of malicious update and then push it out
to all the nodes that are auto updating.
So it's by design supposed to be
a somewhat manual process so that
you can decide for yourself if you
want to upgrade to the next version.
Yeah, and even assuming that there's,
even assuming there was no security
(10:23):
back doors or anything like that, it
just feels kind of like in line with
the Bitcoin ethos to that people should
choose which node version they want to
run because, you know, at the end of
the day, on the, at the protocol level,
the only true users are Bitcoin nodes.
Those are the, the users of the
Bitcoin protocol the nodes themselves.
(10:43):
Right.
And if you're not using your own
Bitcoin node, then you're using
somebody else's Bitcoin node and you
don't have any control over that.
Tell us what you think of this topic.
Do you find this to be a controversial PR?
If it gets merged and as part of Bitcoin,
are you going to upgrade your node?
Are you going to stick
with the current version?
Do you think this takes away some
(11:04):
of the sovereignty of node runners?
Let us know, you can boost in and
tell us with Fountain or another
Podcasting 2.0 app, or you can
email us at sovereign@atlbitlab.com.
For today's main topic, we're gonna
talk about how to get a domain name
as well as hosting in a private
(11:25):
self-sovereign manner, or at least as
self-sovereign as domain names can be.
I think that we should talk
about that particular issue
with the domain name system.
The domain name system has a, it's
inherently centralized because
there's a list of domain name
(11:47):
registrars and the ICANN, which
is the International Corporation-
for Assigned Names and Numbers.
Thank you.
International Corporation for Assigned
names and numbers, which is the
international body that regulates
or, uh, partitions out domain names.
And so ultimately there is a central point
(12:08):
of failure when it comes to domain names.
However, there's also a huge spectrum
of completely sovereign, which doesn't
technically exist, but pretty sovereign
and private with domain names all the way
to fully KYC and censrable and we're gonna
talk about how we can get as far towards
that self-sovereign spectrum as possible.
(12:31):
When you register for a domain name,
they might ask for everything from your
real name, address, phone number, bank
account, payment information, all the way
to the minimum amount possible, and that's
really what we're searching for here.
That minimum amount is going
to be an email address so that
(12:52):
you can simply have an account.
And for that you can use an alias like
simple login, which we've talked about in
a previous episode, if you are unfamiliar
with that, check out our episode on
email and email privacy, and you'll
get a whole bunch of good information
on how to get started with that.
And for payment, you wanna look for
something that accepts cryptocurrency
(13:13):
and specifically Bitcoin.
We're fans of Bitcoin here, although some
of them are gonna accept Monero as well.
And I would say that that's
certainly a tool that can be used.
Two examples that I wanna talk about first
for just straight domain name registration
are Namecheap, that's namecheap.com.
And uh, I've been using
(13:34):
this one for a long time.
NameCheap was one of the first
providers to first registrars to accept
Bitcoin and I have zero complaints
about NameCheap, as the name implies.
They are relatively cheap.
I haven't seen anywhere that has better
prices, so I think they have great prices.
And when I register with
(13:56):
NameCheap, I use the minimum
amount of information possible.
So the only thing that they
have is my email address.
Uh, of course, I create a
password to log into my account.
My email address is an alias, and then
when I go to pay, I select Bitcoin.
I simply top up my account balance
with Bitcoin and then I can buy any of
their products and services with it.
(14:18):
And one thing I'll note is that they
used, uh, they used BTC pay server, so
they're not using some third party KYC
Coinbase, uh, Coinbase commerce type thing
where it's, it's using cryptocurrency
supposedly, but really it's kind of just
like it's as bad as the legacy banking
(14:39):
system in terms of tracking you and,
and the data that you have to give up.
So this one I consider BTC pay
server to be a legit sort of Bitcoin
native way to, to pay for it.
And they do indeed support that here.
I actually did not know that there were,
like we were talking about before the
show started, I was not even aware that
(15:01):
there were domain name registrars that
don't KYC or not, I shouldn't say KYC, but
they don't ask for lots of information.
I, I guess I never considered it
'cause I'm usually, buying domains on
a business context and you know, as
a result I don't kind of worry about
it as much, 'cause I kind of just
feel like, okay, you know, business
(15:22):
details are kind of doxed anyways.
And so, especially if you're public
about your business, so, I, I guess
I never really thought about it.
I, I just assumed this whole
system had been fully captured.
Well, it's, it's good to know that there's
a way to do it in a much more private
manner, and when you are filling out your
(15:44):
information, you have to give out your
name and address for the domain, like
once you're within your NameCheap account,
Mm-hmm.
I am not telling you to break any kind of
laws, but nobody is going to blink twice
if you put in fake information in there.
So the, the name and address
and all of that, just use a,
(16:05):
uh, user generator website.
Just look those up and you
get a, a nice randomized name,
address, and phone number.
And then in addition to that, you
want to utilize domain privacy guard
NameCheap offers that for free.
Many registrars also offer that as well,
what that does is it offers you a layer
(16:25):
of privacy between the public and that
that name, that information that you gave.
Now, even though that you're putting
in the fake information, it's still
nice to have it so that if somebody is
pinging your website from the public,
they can't really glean, it'll just
say domain by some privacy company,
privacy guard or something like that.
(16:45):
So that, that's what gives you a layer
of privacy from the public and then from
the domain name registrar itself, that
fake information that you're putting in
there and lack of a payment information
is going to protect you from the registrar
themselves, so that even if they were
co-opted or forced to via court order,
(17:06):
they would know nothing about you and they
couldn't give you a, as far as censorship,
yes.
There is an ultimately a way where a
law enforcement organization could go
to the domain name registrar and if
they had a court order, I'm not even
sure what that process would look like.
Maybe we can war game this out.
You know how, let's say some government
(17:27):
agency wanted to censor a website and
they were registered with very private
details, how would they take them down?
Well, I mean, I think the simplest
solution is if, I mean, if the domain
name is registered with private details,
if, if, if they want the website to go
down, then that would just be as simple
as I, I think just do they have a legally
(17:50):
binding way to order, order the registrar
to kind of halt that user's account.
Like if the root name servers take
down the like a record and all the
other like DNS records, then the
other DNS servers around the world,
you know, their the records will
eventually expire on their servers.
'cause they all have a time to live.
(18:11):
They won't be able to refresh their
DNS records from the root name server.
Uh, so that's how I would see it
happening, being the web server,
like whatever, web server, uh,
in question could, could still be
running, and that doesn't really
change or affect that in any way.
But, if you just attack the root
domain name, I think that's a,
a pretty quick way to make the
(18:32):
website not work for 99% of people.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong,
but there's two different
areas that could be attacked.
There's the name server.
Mm-hmm.
Which is where you have a decentralized
system of name servers all around the
internet and those tell, those tell users
or anybody that's trying to reach the
(18:53):
website, what IP address to, to point to.
Yep.
Then you have the registrar itself, which
says, this account is, has registered
this domain name and therefore whatever
settings they've put in their dashboard,
what whatever IP address they're pointing
at, that's what we're gonna honor.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
(19:14):
I mean, the registrars are just
kind of like, you know, businesses
that, able to, you know, sell
particular domain names to users.
But you have the, like, the root name
servers that actually like, handle, like,
which, uh, 'cause you've got the name
servers for any given domain name, right?
(19:35):
So like for atlbitlab.com, you can
do a lookup, you can figure out
what the name servers are and the
name servers host those DNS records.
Um, those are like the, the,
like a, the authoritative place
where the IP addresses, for, you
know, that website can be found.
And, but how do you
find those name servers?
(19:55):
Well, you have to get that
information from the root name server.
That's my understanding of it at least.
So yeah, you would, you would basically,
you would either want to, I guess, attack
the name servers themselves, or you'd have
to tell the root name server to like, you
know, stop pointing to those name servers.
But I'm not sure.
I wanted to mention a feature
(20:16):
that many domain name registrars,
including NameCheap support and
that is DNS sec. That's D-N-S-S-E-C.
And that stands for DNS
Security something something.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
But it's basically what this does
is it prevents another kind of
attack, which is a, a domain, a name
server, spoofing, or any kind of
(20:38):
name, server interruption or attack.
Now, we've seen this before where
organizations would go after domain name,
resolvers and name servers and put in
different information so that even though
a website was still up and running,
people, users could not get to it because
they would type in the domain name and
it would point to a different server.
(21:00):
And so you can actually mitigate
that by ensuring you have DNS
SEC enabled on your domain name.
That's really cool.
I was looking for like a knowledge
based thing, but about it.
But I think that's great.
DNS SEC is awesome.
An advocate for it and I did
not know Namecheap supported
it, so that's really cool.
Before we move on to hosting, which
(21:20):
is a little bit of a different
topic then domain names themselves.
I wanted to shout out to a
registrar called Porkbun.
I have not personally used this
one, but I've heard that they also
support, um, anonymous registration
and they accept Bitcoin as well.
(21:41):
This is the website right here?
Yep.
They have pigs all over their website.
porkbun.com
Yeah.
Nice.
Let's move into hosting now,
which is slightly different
than the domain name itself.
Hosting is a server where your website
or application is actually gonna run,
and so your domain name and your hosting
(22:04):
do not have to be on the same site, in
fact, it's kind of nice to have them
decouple and beyond different services.
However, this next hosting provider
that I'm gonna talk about offers
both hosting and domain names.
In fact, a lot of service providers
offer both because they wanna make
it convenient, like a one stop shop.
(22:24):
You know, if I am, if I'm not super
technical and I wanna make a website
for my church or my, you know, my club
or my home crafting shop, I might go
to a single site and I want them to
give me a domain name, host my website
and even build the website for me.
So there's, there's all in one providers,
(22:45):
but I always think it's, it's a good
idea to have them separated out.
However, this one that I'm
recommending is a great provider.
They're called Hostinger and it's
hostinger.com is the domain name.
And I am currently using
this for a VPS that I have.
A VPS is a Virtual Private Server.
(23:07):
And this is basically your
own Linux server in the cloud.
And you can do pretty much anything
with a VPS from hosting a full on
application to a simple personal website.
And what I like about Hostinger is
that again, they, they require only the
minimal amount of information, just an
(23:27):
email address, which you can use an alias
for, and then you can pay in Bitcoin.
And so I have a VPS that's
running for a reverse proxy for
all of my personal services.
And I've, um, as far as Hostinger
knows I'm just an account number.
One thing you wanna be aware of
when you're connecting to your VPS
provider is to you make sure your
(23:49):
VPN is enabled, that way you are
obscuring your home IP address.
And you can check out our previous
Sovereign computing episode on
VPNs for more details on that.
Hmm.
Never heard of this.
That's cool.
Nice looking website.
Another hosting provider that gives,
(24:09):
that has VPSs that you can pay in Bitcoin
and stay anonymous is 1984.hosting.
They're located in Iceland,
which is famous for their
privacy and digital sovereignty.
They accept both Bitcoin and Monero.
And again, they have, uh, good prices and
(24:30):
minimal amount of information required.
Yeah, they're flying their Bitcoin
and Monero flags, uh, pretty,
uh, proudly on their homepage.
I love that.
The last one I wanna give
a mention to is FlokiNET.
This is another Iceland service provider.
(24:51):
And they have pretty cheap 3.50 euros a
month is, is a great price in my opinion.
Uh, they also have VPSs and other
types of hosting, and again, they will
collect the minimum amount, amount of
data, which is just an email address
and they allow you to pay in Bitcoin.
Hmm.
That's cool.
(25:13):
We talked about hosting providers, and
we talked about domain name providers.
Is there anything else you
can think of when it comes to
getting a website up and running?
Maybe we could talk about reasons
you would want to even do that in
the first place, servers, et cetera.
Well, I mean.
(25:33):
That's actually a good question in the
modern age because I think a lot of
the narrative publicly has just shifted
the social media, and a lot of times.
I think websites are great.
I think having a homepage is great.
I think it's kind of like your
static fixed place on the internet.
(25:54):
It's really nice if you have your personal
website and even if you don't have like
a product or a business or something
professional you want to do with it,
it's kind of fun that you get to have
your personal site, that is, is kind of
constructed the way you like it to be.
And I think we kinda lost
that magic a little bit.
That was like a fun thing in the nineties
(26:17):
and early two thousands to be able to
like have your personal homepage and
even if it was, you know, it could
be, you know, there are people who may
like, this is my shrine to whatever,
Dragon Ball Z character or page.
And then, you know, you'd have other
people just like, you know, here's some of
my favorite bands and my favorite books.
And it's like, I, I, I don't know.
That all feels very quaint now, but
(26:38):
there was something kind of magical
about that, that everybody had their
little home on the internet and, I
think, you know, I kind of wish, uh,
that we'd bring some more of that back.
A lot of people have, just pivoted to
social media, which is fine, but it's
something different, social media,
and you don't really control it.
And there's nothing really that
feels fixed and permanent about it.
(26:59):
And there's of course attempts like,
you know, Nostr and stuff like that to
try and decentralize that, but I think
there's something kind of beautiful,
which is about having your own website.
Then having said that, there's also
you know what, if you want to run your
own business or run a website for, you
know, your, your club, your church,
your company, whatever it is, so these
are good skills to be able to have.
(27:21):
You know, as always, I think it's
just nice to be kind of liberated
from the big service providers.
A lot of times when you get onto, plans
with like a software company, uh, a lot
of your decision making, I think revolves
around like, what plan do I need to
be on and like, how many transactions
(27:41):
or how many pages do I get, or how
many products can I add to this store?
And a lot of times when, uh, you're
able to, you know, host your own
website, you don't have that kind of
concern, like for example of like, uh,
I see on, uh, you know, uh, was it,
did they mention on this, on Floki?
Yeah.
Like, okay.
(28:01):
I don't know about this one, but one
of 'em mentioned WordPress, right?
So like 1984 it mentioned that hosting
mentions WordPress on their page.
And if you want to go and sell something
online and you go to like big cartel or,
Shopify or whatever other website you're
(28:23):
gonna be like, it's gonna be like, well,
$30 a month minimum for your store or this
percent in transaction fees or like, you
can list up 10 products on the free plan.
Right.
I'm not saying that's exactly
what their business model is.
I've just, I've seen that a lot of
times with e-commerce hosting providers.
Uh, it's a very common thing.
And I think that factors into your
(28:44):
decision making, whereas if you just like
went to one of these webs hosts, deployed
a WordPress store, set up WooCommerce,
you could get a proof of concept website
up and running very quickly, and hook
that up to like a free stripe account
for credit cards or like pointed
to your BTC Pay server for Bitcoin.
And then you have maximum freedom,
cause you're, you're in the, like,
WordPress open source ecosystem
(29:05):
and it gets a lot of, you know,
shade thrown at it these days.
But it has a huge,
powerful plugin ecosystem.
Like, there's a lot that you can do
that, if you want to try and do with
platforms like Webflow and all these
other centralized platforms, you just
have to pay an arm and a leg for a lot
of the, the basic features and stuff.
(29:26):
So, I don't know.
That was kind of a rant, but I just,
you know, I think there's something
beautiful about personal websites
that I wish we would bring back.
And I also think that, you know, you
have maximum amount of freedom, when you
think about hosting your own website.
Agreed on all of those points and
sort of building on top of that with
social media, you are renting an
(29:50):
account on somebody else's server,
and you're playing by their rules.
And we've seen how in the past few
years, especially how easy it is for
people to get censored on social media
basically if, if they decide they don't
like what you're saying, then your
account can be shut off instantly.
When you have your own website, while we
talked about, it's because of the domain
(30:11):
name system is ultimately centralized.
It is a much higher barrier or a, a
much higher bar to meet for a domain
name to be shut down than it is for a
social media account to be deactivated.
So in order for it, it's very rare that
you would know anybody that's actually
(30:31):
had a website uh, domain name taken
down by some federal authorities, right?
Like they, they often have to go
to, they have to go to a federal
level, and sometimes even an
international level, depending on
the registrar, or the registry.
And this is like, in order for them
to disrupt a registrar's business like
(30:53):
that, they have to have a legit cause.
Typically, if you're just saying
some mean stuff on your website or
something that the, uh, other people
disagree with, they're not gonna
be able to get your website shut
down from the domain name level.
So this is a much higher
level of self sovereignty and
ownership over your whole stack.
(31:14):
So you have the lower censorship,
you also have the greater permanence,
as you mentioned, you can have your
website around forever, whereas
social media comes and goes.
And then you'll have something convenient.
Like there's actually, have you, have
you heard about LinkTree, Stephen?
I know.
Yes, I have.
Yeah.
So LinkTree is, it's kind of fun to
(31:34):
laugh at the fact that this site is so
popular, but LinkTree is just a website
that you can list your various links.
So it's like, oh, I, I have, here's
my, my Twitter and my Instagram and my
Facebook, blah, blah, blah, and, and
just to find all of that, go to LinkTree
so you only have to remember one thing.
Well, if you have your own
website, you don't need a LinkTree.
(31:54):
You know, I could have Jordan
bravo.com and I could say, go to
jordanbravo.com to contact me and
it'll have my email address and all
the other ways that you can contact me.
Whereas, if I didn't have my own
website, I would say go to LinkTree and
then search for Jordan Bravo and, oh,
shoot, somebody else already claimed
that, so here's a one after my name.
(32:16):
And you know, it's just, it's much less
professional and you, you absolutely do
not own it in any way, shape, or form.
Yeah.
LinkTree is like, wow.
I mean like, maybe this is like
a side tangent, but I, as someone
who's grown up with the web.
It is like infuriating to me to see
like not infuriating, just frustrating.
(32:36):
I don't, I don't always understand it.
These experiences that like limit what
we can do but become so popular and so
like Instagram is one of those, it's
like I see artists and photographers
and you know, any kind of content
creator basically like conforming to
(32:57):
the you know, squareish aspect ratio
of Instagram because, you know, well
it has to fit on Instagram and like
arranging things so that they're spaced
out and look a certain way and your feed.
So it's like their work is now being
dictated by the feed on Instagram
versus with a website, you have this
(33:17):
whole canvas to work with and you
can arrange things however you want.
And it's the same with LinkTree.
It's like, if you want to have a personal
homepage, like that's what this is,
this is like your home on the web.
It's like your personal homepage.
Here's all of the stuff that I'm
involved in, but all it is is a
page with like three or four links
on it, and it's like, so this is
(33:38):
something like people pay for this.
Like people pay for a service that lets
you make what at its core is essentially
just an HTML file with three links in it.
I mean, I'm, I get it, like I'm,
we're looking at the page here.
There's like some pretty stuff
you can style it for your, you
know, unique Gen Z personality.
Okay, I get that.
But like, it's just weird, the fact that
(34:00):
we're paying like all this money just for
a page with like a couple of links on it.
Like, that's like how just
like centralized the web
has become and it's weird.
I agree.
I appreciate the rant.
That's kind of what I was alluding to and
I'm glad you said it the way you said it.
One last thing I I'd point out when
(34:20):
you have your own domain name is
we talked about the, in the episode
on email addresses, how to decouple
your email address and really take
ownership and sovereignty over that.
And in order to do that, you
really need your own domain name.
And so by having your own domain name, you
have the power to have your own website.
You have the power to have your
(34:41):
own email address with an infinite
number of, of, email names at that
address, inboxes you could say.
So it really gives you, it kind of
makes you a, a citizen of the internet
rather than a surf of the internet.
Sounds good to me.
Jordan and I got off on a side
tangent that we think that many of
(35:01):
you are going to find very interesting
especially if you're curious about
how this technology works, curious
about failure scenarios with domain
names and, and, and all of that.
Um, but we've moved it to the end of
the conversation so that we were able
to get through all of the product
suggestions and all that at the beginning.
So if you're interested to
really, really dive deep.
(35:22):
And get into some interesting territory.
Keep listening.
I, I think it's worth talking this
through a little bit because the way
that the domain name system works.
I'm actually asking this now because
I've never thought about this exact
Mm-hmm.
Part of it, which is how does
ICANN a portion domain names to
(35:42):
registrars, and then how is control
or ownership of it transferred.
For example, to a registrar and
then from a registrar to a user.
I don't know.
Should we ask Maple?
I, I think we could do that.
And we, we may or may not wanna edit this
(36:05):
Yeah.
Into me how, uh, ICANN, um, and
registrars, uh, interoperate, uh, for
example, if a registrar a, um, provisions.
Um, example.com to Alice.
(36:26):
Um, how, uh, does, um, uh, how does
registrar, I can't type right now,
how does at Registrar B, um, uh.
How do we prevent red, just straw b from
(36:50):
also provisioning, um, example.com to Bob.
And this is also like a Llama model that
I think doesn't have access to the open
internet, but this is also like knowledge
(37:10):
that's been around for a while, so it
wouldn't surprise me if it's been around.
So ICANN registers interoperate
through system that ensures uniqueness
of domain name registrations
across different registrars.
Here's a simplified
overview of the process.
ICANN is responsible for managing the
global domain name system and ensuring
that each domain name is unique.
ICANN maintains a centralized
database known as the Root Zone, which
(37:32):
contains the authoritative records
for all top level domains such as
.com, dot org, dot net registries.
For each TLD, there is a corresponding
registry that manages the domain
name registrations within that TLD.
For example, Verisign is the
registry for .com and.net.
Registries are responsible for
maintaining the authoritative
database for their respective TLDs.
Registrars, registrars such as
(37:53):
registrar A and B are accredited by
ICANN to sell domain name registrations
to customers like Alice and Bob.
Registrars interact with the registries
to provision and manage domain name
registrations to prevent duplicate
registrations such as, uh, Reg B
provisioning example.com to Bob when it's
already registered to Alice through A,
the following mechanisms are in place,
(38:13):
EPP, Extensible Provisioning Protocol.
That's a mouthful.
Registrars use EPP to communicate with
the registry for their respective TLD.
Uh, when a registrar attempts to
register a domain name, they send
an EPP request to the registry.
The registry checks if the domain
name is available, and if so, it
creates a new registration record.
Registry Lock, when a registrar
successfully registers the domain
(38:34):
name, the registry locks the
domain name to prevent other
registrars from registering it.
This lock is implemented
through the EPP protocol.
WHOIS Database, each registry maintains a
WHOIS database that contains information
about registered domain names including
the registrar, record registrant, contact
information and name server details.
so it sounds like, okay, so this
flow is probably a good description.
Registrar A sends an EPP
(38:55):
request to the .com registry.
The registry checks if
example.com is available.
And if so, creates a
new registration record.
The registry locks example.com to prevent
other registrars from registering it.
Got it.
So basically it looks like there's
just this kind of database called
the registry and all the registrars
have to talk to this registry
to see if it's available or not.
(39:15):
And the, the root name server, the
registry, I'm assuming that the registry
is the one that controls the, uh, root
like name, authoritative name server
for .com, .net, whatever your CD is.
Yeah.
Verisign.
In the case of .com it says.
Yeah.
Can you ask it one more question?
Yeah.
Say, if some authorities such as
(39:38):
the FBI wanted to take down a domain
name, how would they go about it
and where are the points of failure?
(40:09):
So if an authority like the FBI wants
to take down domain, they, you know,
coordinate with various stakeholders,
uh, identification investigation.
FBI identifies the domain in the
question, conducts an investigation to
gather evidence of illicit activities.
Obtaining a court order, the FBI
contains a court order that warrants
them to seize or suspend the domain,
US federal court issues says.
Notify the registrar, FBI notifies
(40:31):
the registrar of record for the
domain, GoDaddy, Namecheap, et cetera,
provides them with the court order.
Registrar's response, the registrar
typically comply with the court order
by suspending the domain name, making
it an accessible to the public.
And then the, the registrar will
transfer the domain name to a holding
account or a new registrar effectively
taking control of the domain.
And then they update the who has
records to reflect the change in status.
(40:52):
And I'm assuming that happens
through that EPP protocol that
was discussed in the previous one.
Registry involvement, if the registrar
is unable to take action, or if the
domain name is registered with a
registrar that is not cooperative, the
FBI may need to involve the registry
that would be verified for .coms, so
the registry can then update the root
zone and who has records to reflect the
suspension or transfer of the domain name.
(41:14):
And then name server updates.
The FBI may also need to update the name
server records for the domain name to
point a new IP address or a holding page.
So yeah.
This is cool.
These points of failure.
Points of failure,
non-cooperative registrars.
So yeah, obviously that would
prevent the FBI from taking down.
Domain name proxy services, if the
domain name is registered through a
(41:34):
proxy service, it may be more challenging
for the FBI to identify the true
owner of the domain intake action.
Yeah.
I think a caveat on that is like just
because the human is proxied, if they want
the website to be taken down, you could
still ask the registry to take it down.
Right.
That with number one, non-cooperative
registrars, it says if the registrar
(41:55):
is not based in the US, or is not
willing to comply with the order.
The FBI may face difficulties
in taking down the domain name.
That's the one that intrigues me because
I'm thinking there's gotta be registrars
in different jurisdictions that are
attractive for privacy minded people who
you know, like they're gonna be the same
way you have jurisdictional arbitrage.
You have some jurisdictions that
(42:15):
are more favorable for privacy.
I would guess that there are certain
domain name registrars in different
jurisdictions that might have a
little more backbone when it comes to
standing up against take down orders.
Yeah, and it could be the case.
I think, it's interesting because,
you know, a lot of times it's so
easy to buy domain names these days,
(42:37):
and we have so many TLDs to choose
from, but kind of a different level
of service from uh, different TLDs.
So for example, like.com is the
most ubiquitous and they're a little
bit pricey these days, and a lot
of the good ones have been taken.
But, I've, I've found a pretty flat,
consistent level of service with those.
(42:57):
But then, you know, you'll run into some
that have special considerations like.
I think for like .movie, you need
to like kind of like prove that you
have like a, a film in distribution.
.film, you can get pretty liberally,
but .movie I think requires more, uh,
you know, stuff or like .dev is supposed
(43:17):
to be for like developer related stuff.
I don't know if Google,
Google runs that one.
I don't know if they've ever taken
anybody down, but it's reserved for that.
And it's also one of the pricier ones too.
.app is incredibly pricey.
Cause it's like so desirable.
They, you know, you people, uh, with
SaaS, software, you know, startups,
want that .app domain and are willing
to, you know, pay a premium for it.
(43:38):
Uh, but then you get into
stuff like the the .io and.
I did, did we talk about that
on another episode or something?
That, that, you know, like .io
was like the famous, you know,
Indian Ocean.
Yeah.
Is that what it is?
Indian Ocean.
I was saying it was the
famous like, technology, like
website, you know, you end-
(43:58):
We, we talked about that, but I
don't think it was on an episode.
Okay.
But yeah, so like the .io, it's just.
It's like in the, you know, 2010s.
It was like every cool, like developer
project had a .io domain name.
It just like, it was like your way of
signaling your, like what, you know,
in the tech industry or whatever.
Input output.
Yeah, I guess so.
But, uh, the thing about it was that,
(44:20):
uh, yeah, there was like some, I don't
know, issue recently where the registrar
was going down or something like that.
I think what happened was, I
think last year, maybe 2024, 2023.
But there was a change in jurisdiction
because, whatever country the .io name
was part of, it was previously a British
(44:41):
colony or territory, something like that.
And then that territory or colony
got its independence or some kind of
change in the jurisdiction of no longer
being under that British authority.
And so there was a new whole
jurisdictional system for them.
And therefore, the domain name
now is going to a new owner, so
(45:02):
to speak, a new l ike authority.
And that authority did not have to
honor the existing domain names.
So I didn't follow what
ended up happening with that.
But there were kind of two possibilities.
One was they would, going forward,
they would continue to honor existing
domain name registrations and it
would just sort of go on as usual.
And the other was like, they
would just say no, we're starting
(45:24):
over with, with .io domains.
Yeah.
And so I guess, you know, we'll have
to check the status of that later.
But the point with that is that it
was a scare, like, there can be these
interruptions in service, especially when
you're dealing with like, you know, like
a registrar and like some colony out in
the ocean or whatever like it's just not
the same as like having a .com through.
(45:45):
Another example is .xyz.
This has become the new hip
tech project name to have like
your website ending in .xyz.
But this was actually an issue in the
Fediment community, because there were
people trying to start federations,
which were kind of like these community
Bitcoin banks to put it succinctly.
And, uh, some federations had started and
(46:06):
the guardians of those federations, the
people who like the node, the node runners
who kind of run the bank, they had XYZ
domain names for their guardian nodes.
And some of the guardians went down
because for some reason, the XYZ, uh,
like domain Regi, like I, I guess it was
the XYZ registry or I, I don't know what
(46:28):
step in the process this happened, but a
bunch of XYZ domain names got taken down.
It was actually this huge kerfuffle
Fediment and the, the Fediment
team eventually, you know,
created a fix for the problem.
And so those guardians were
able to get back up and running
under different domain names.
But it is a problem.
So it's like, you, you go through a.com
(46:48):
domain name, and I think it's a very
stable, robust, steady level of service.
But you are kind of in
the system, so to speak.
You can go through these other TLDs that
go through, like other, you know, like
other countries and stuff and you may the
regulations, requirements may be a little
(47:10):
bit different for those, but there's
also kind of like this risk of like,
what if something happens with that TLD?
Not saying you shouldn't use those,
it's just there's trade offs.
Alright, now why are we
even talking about this?
Are we trying to foment a revolution
where the FBI is gonna come after us and
our listeners and take down our websites?
(47:30):
Probably not.
However, it's one of many steps in
building up our sovereign computing
life, our, our digital fortress, and
each of these steps by themselves is
not, make or break, do or die, but
it's, it's layers of security and
privacy that build a solid foundation.
(47:52):
Alright, let's read some boost.
We got a boost from Clockwork for 500 SATs
and I believe that was on the episode of,
I think it was just, it
was on the show itself.
On the show itself.
Alright, well thank you Clockwork.
We appreciate your boost.
A silent boost.
Silent boost.
Just.
No message.
Just appreciate your support there.
(48:13):
And then we also got some
streaming SATs from Weird Robot.
So thank you.
Weird robot.
1200 SATs were streamed in.
We really appreciate that.
Appreciate the support
and that you're listening.
Remember, if you, if any of you would like
to support the show, you can boost in or
stream SATs with an app like Fountain.
(48:35):
You can also email us.
Our email address is
sovereign@atlbitlab.com and stay tuned
for more ways to contact us in the future.
We're gonna be adding a
matrix room anytime soon.
We've been teasing that for a while
and we promise you it is coming soon.
Tm, that's trademark for soon.
(48:57):
Anything else you wanna
cover today, Stephen?
No, I think, uh, I think I'm good.
Alright.
Thanks a lot everybody, and
we'll see you next time.
Catch you later.
Hey, thanks for listening.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you want to learn more about
anything that we discussed, you can
look for links in the show notes that
should be in your podcast player, or
you can go to atlbitlab.com/podcast.
(49:20):
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