June 10, 2025 • 31 mins
What if your most valuable book marketing asset isn’t your manuscript but your audience?
Allison Lane sits with Daniel Murray, creator of ‘The Marketing Millennials,’ shares how he built a LinkedIn following of over 1 million by focusing on connection over perfection. We dive into the author marketing strategies that actually work, especially when you’re short on time and budget.
If you want to find your readers and keep them coming back, this is a must-listen.
What You’ll Learn:
- How to grow a reader-focused audience on LinkedIn, no team or budget required.
- The unscalable marketing moves that lead to scalable author success.
- Why consistent, imperfect content builds trust (and bookshelves) faster.
Resources Mentioned:
- Daniel Murray’s website: https://themarketingmillennials.com/
- Podcast: The Marketing Millennials: https://themarketingmillennials.com/podcast/
- Connect Daniel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniel-murray-marketing/
- Book Reco:
- Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life by Rory Sutherland https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9780062388421
- The Ultimate Sales Letter, 4th Edition: Attract New Customers. Boost your Sales by Dan S. Kennedy: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781440511417
- Using Behavioral Science in Marketing: Drive Customer Action and Loyalty by Prompting Instinctive Responses by Nancy Harhut: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781398606487
Timestamps:
- 03:50 – Why most experts miss the mark on LinkedIn.
- 10:25 – The real secret to content that connects.
- 19:40 – How to reuse your best-performing ideas.
- 32:10 – Sustainable marketing even when time is tight.
- 44:00 – Daniel’s one action for authors to take today.
Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PKkdZMdpS0
Rate, Review, & Follow The Author’s Edge
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Here’s how:
- Click here, scroll to the bottom, and tap to rate with five stars.
- Select “Write a Review” and tell me what you loved most about the episode!
And don’t forget to follow the podcast if you haven’t already. I’m sharing bonus episodes packed with insider tips, and I’d hate for you to miss out. Hit that follow button now.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel (00:00):
Comments are the best content in the world.
(00:02):
And also, what's the amazingthing about social media?
It gives you signal.
So, people are liking thatcomment.
That's probably something thatwould be a good post.
Allison (00:36):
If you want to grow an audience that actually pays
attention and that sticks withyou.
This one's for you.
Daniel Murray from the MarketingMillennials Podcast is a legend
now, but he didn't start asthat.
He started just like every oneof us with one foot in front of
(00:58):
the other every single day.
But the marketing millennials,in terms of a platform on
LinkedIn has over a millionfollowers.
That is massive folks.
And it is possible.
Plus this global hit of apodcast, which you need to be
listening to.
And don't worry, I'm gonna giveyou all the links in the show
notes.
(01:18):
But Daniel's here to dosomething generous and to tell
us how he did something thatmost people overlook.
He kept his content consistentand sharp and easy to digest
because nobody has time foranything else.
Nobody has time for gimmicks orfluff or stay tuned and I'll
(01:38):
really give you the tip.
No one has time, especially notin the LinkedIn land.
So, he's here, he is gonna tellus what's working now, and smart
things that you can do, and youcan use today without needing a
team or a budget.
Let's get into it.
Daniel, thank you.
(01:58):
We're so happy that you're here.
People have.
Asked so many questions and sentso many questions.
And I have them for you.
Daniel (02:06):
Sweet.
Yeah.
I mean, Thank you for thatintro.
I wouldn't call myself a legend.
I feel like I'm just a marketerstill putting one foot in front
of each other, figuring thingsout.
So I'm excited to chat andanswer whatever questions you
have.
Allison (02:19):
Well.
Great.
You don't call yourself alegend, but I do call you an
expert.
And here's what I say to all theexperts I work with.
You don't get to tell me what Iget to call you.
If I think you're an expert,then who are you to tell me I'm
wrong?
Isn't that kind of rude?
So I think you are.
What you're doing is legendaryand I appreciate everything you
(02:39):
do.
So there, take that and smokeit.
Daniel (02:43):
I'm not responding anywhere.
I'll take the.
Allison (02:45):
I know, I know.
Don't talk back to me.
You're a millennial.
I'm Gen X.
So, You've built this massiveopportunity, this massive we
call it a platform, but everyonegags on that term but it is.
You've built this massiveaudience with marketing
millennials, but it didn'thappen overnight.
It wasn't like you were runningan agency and said, I'm gonna
(03:08):
put all this money into this.
Most experts and highlyaccomplished people on LinkedIn
are getting things wrong aboutmarketing on LinkedIn, whether
they're Author's or consultants,coaches, psychologists, running
the ER at a hospital.
What are they doing wrong andgetting wrong about marketing on
(03:30):
platforms like LinkedIn?
Daniel (03:32):
Yeah, I think couple things that I like come to mind
where I see over and over iswhen it comes to any social
media, the audience is thealgorithm, and you have to
create content that works withthe audience.
And that doesn't only mean likeIdea idea wise, it also means
format wise.
(03:52):
It means like digestible wise,it means like simplicity wise.
First thing you gotta thinkabout is like, what are the pain
points my audiences are having?
What's gonna resonate with them?
I always have the filter ofbefore I post would I share this
in a group chat with a bunch ofmarketers, yes or no?
And if I wouldn't, then it'sprobably not a good post.
(04:14):
So, that's like one.
I think a lot of people arewriting content that is not
interesting enough or not formatenough in the right way for the
audience, even though they thinkthey are writing it.
Which is no, you have a lot ofpeople have great ideas out
there.
You just dunno how to formatthem in a way that's digestible
for people.
(04:34):
Number two, I would say peopleget wrong is like, at first you
have to do really unscalablethings.
And what I mean by that is to dothe unscalable things to scale,
so comment on other experts inyour field like, be social,
respond back to people, connectwith people.
(04:55):
If you're not connecting with20, 30 people in your audience a
day, you're probably doingsomething wrong at the
beginning.
After you get to a points, itnaturally happens, but at the
beginning you need to do theseunscalable things like respond
to every comment, respond to allthe comments.
And now LinkedIn launched likeimpressions on comments.
So you can now see if yourcomments are doing good and then
(05:16):
you can use them for content.
Like a comments some of the bestcontent out there.
So number two is like people arenot doing the unscalable things.
And three is consistency wins onany platform.
And I think a lot of people giveup way too early.
Like think just have to keepputting things out there for the
audience to trust.
(05:37):
And putting things out there ina succinct way that your
audience would understand, likethis is for them.
And keep testing, trying newthings.
Eventually some posts will hitand then you can start using
those ideas to create more andmore posts.
But a lot of people aren'tconsistent enough on platforms.
They think, oh, I post once I'mdone.
(05:59):
or I post twice, i'm done.
If you really wanna win, yougotta put out at least a post a
day during the weekday.
If you really wanna wait orthree to five, but at least put
out more content to it.
Allison (06:10):
I think you're hitting on something that's so
important.
When you are commenting onsomeone else's post.
Oftentimes those are the mostmeaty pieces of content.
And what people do is theycomment and then they press go.
And then they lose track.
And I find that if it's adiscussion and it's actually a
(06:33):
genuine comment back.
Some of that content isreusable.
Copy and paste it into a docbefore you move away.
And if you can do even a searchfor your own comments.
On LinkedIn or even in aFacebook community, look at the
(06:54):
comments and you might be like,oh my God, that's essentially a
blog post.
You can make a newsletter out ofthat.
Why don't I post it again, butas a post this time.
Because it takes the pressureoff of you creating content.
If you go, oh, someone justqueued up a question and I had
this gut feeling of I reallyneed to step in here'cause
(07:14):
they're about to turn left whenthey should be turning right?
That's what people want and needand people are really doing you
a favor when they're asking aquestion out there and you show
up and you serve.
Because not only are youserving, but you are creating
content in reaction to someone'sgenuine issue, rather than you
(07:37):
sitting in a corner by yourselfgoing, what should my content
be?
Daniel (07:41):
Comments are the best content in the world.
And also, what's the amazingthing about social media?
It gives you signal.
So, people are liking thatcomment.
That's probably something thatwould be a good post.
And the other thing I would sayis that the biggest thing I see
a lot of people not doing that Ithink they should be doing is if
you find posts that are workingfor you, you could do it in 50
(08:05):
different ways and people arenot gonna remember what you
posted yesterday.
So, reuse your top ideas indifferent formats, different
ways.
I post the same thing that Iposted six months ago, and it'll
do the same amount of likes andcomments.
And people don't realize, oreven three months ago, I reuse
content all the time because Ithink first of all, there's
(08:26):
always new people entering youraudience so they don't know who
you are.
And second, people are notpaying as much attention to you
as you think.
So reusing content is a greatway to just take some pressure
off of you having to alwayscreate ideas.
Just tweak it a little bit,remix it a little bit, put it in
a different format, and nobody'sgonna realize you posted that
(08:47):
before.
Allison (08:49):
And they might not have seen the first post or the
second post anyway.
And they could have been in adifferent mindset.
Nike doesn't change.
Just do it every time we see anad.
Just do, it means somethingdifferent depending on when you
see it or when you're reallythinking about it, or if you're
just passing by.
So yes, stick to it.
More isn't better.
(09:09):
It just waters everything down Ithink, and muddies everything.
Now, with people think contenthas to be polished and perfect.
And when you did say that peoplearen't formatting things
correctly, but your posts arepunchy and simple and packed
with value.
So, when you talk aboutformatting specifically on
(09:32):
LinkedIn right now, what'sworking?
Daniel (09:36):
A few things are working.
First of all, like some thingsthat are always gonna work is
like you have to nail aheadline.
And a lot of people forget thatan image is a headline too.
So, if you doing a quote orsomething that you want to be
front and center, an image witha quote or an image with
(09:57):
something that is like aheadline for the post and it
gets people stopping'causeimages take up more of the feed
than a text post.
So, you're trying to get as muchattention of that.
So first I would say using hookswill always work.
So like the first three lines ofyour copy and your image should
always be there.
People who are doing video, ifyou're really good at video,
(10:17):
now's the time to do video onLinkedIn.
But if you're doing video still,like video's a little different
because there's more componentsyou need.
An audio hook you need like anoverlay image on the video,
that's a hook as well.
You need to have your strongestpoint upfront, like you can't
wait for the story to developbecause people will stop.
(10:40):
So, you need that upfront.
So video are really good.
If you're good at video, I woulddouble down on video too.
Carousels are working very well,like image carousels, like
multiple, like images together.
Those are like the three thingsthat I see working really well.
And obviously, I create a lot ofmemes.
I know memes work becausethey're shareable.
(11:03):
So, like I always think aboutreverse engineer from the share
of what would you share and thencreate content that you would
share.
Like would you share a whitepaper with your friend?
Probably not.
Would you share like a long,huge post that takes forever to
get to the point?
Probably not.
But if something's punchy, likean image or a video.
(11:25):
You're probably gonna share thatbecause one, like as a person,
you're like creating aconversation with someone else,
like saying oh, this isinteresting.
Or showing you found somethingcool or you want to show that
this is funny and we're in thesame boat together, or like,
this is the cool idea.
We should use this.
That's what you gotta think, yougotta reverse engineer from the
share because the whole goal oflike great social media is
(11:48):
getting it to be shared.
Outside of social media, so likein Slack channels, in dms, in
group messages, in textmessages, in WhatsApp, wherever.
So, reverse engineering, likewhat would you share?
And that's probably greatcontent on LinkedIn.
Allison (12:05):
When you said, would you share a white paper?
It just made me laugh so hard onthe inside because sharing a
white paper feels like throwingthe phone book at someone.
Like here.
Daniel (12:17):
Yeah.
Allison (12:18):
it's 20 pages.
There's something in it for you.
No thank you.
Why don't you just forward theinternet to me, it's like, it's
too much.
It's hilarious.
Are white paper still a thing?
Daniel (12:28):
I don't know.
I think some B2B markers haven'tchanged their playbook for 15
years, like still putting outwhite paper Z books, posting
their webinar, just their linkon company page.
They're still doing the samethings.
I get it.
A lot of people are smallmarketing teams.
They're checking a box, likethey said Hey, we need a
webinar.
We need to promote it.
Just make a LinkedIn postquickly.
(12:49):
But I am on the boat of ifyou're on any social media
channel, if you're not giving it110%.
Like I just had a podcast with.
Someone who's social media?
His name is Jay Stan, he is asocial media guy, but he said
social media is the front porchof your brand.
So if you like, the first entrypoint for a lot of people to
your brand.
So, if you putting out lowquality, boring stuff, like
(13:11):
people are gonna assume yourbrand is that.
So like your social media shouldmirror what you want your
audience to see and share and bea part of.
So, I think that's the mentalityyou had to go in with social
media.
Allison (13:24):
I think people spend way too much time trying to
create content that allows themto hide and not really show up.
Oh, you created a beautiful likegraphic on Canva.
You can get lost inside ofCanva, so please don't.
But also we don't get to knowyou.
It's a quote card, and yes, thebackground you picked was
(13:48):
lovely, but like it doesn'tallow anyone to connect with
you.
Even your gorgeous glamor shots.
We can't connect.
We know that you pose for thatand someone did your hair.
It's just easier to take aselfie video when you're sitting
in carpool, which is what I do'cause that is when I have time.
And those are the videos thatget the most engagement.
(14:10):
And people are like do you havemore tips?
Yes, I do.
'cause I had to sit there for 22minutes.
And in 22 minutes I can do ashit ton.
Well, you do say consistencybeats, hacks.
And it's tough advice whenpeople are short on time, but
busy people get things done,right?
What does a sustainable contentcreation tactic look like for
(14:34):
you?
Usually, people don't have twohours of a chunk.
So, you could do what I do,which is show up a hair early
for carpool, pick up, and usethat time.
Daniel (14:48):
Two things I think, I hate to say it, if you don't
have time for social media, thenit's not a priority for you.
So like you have, everybody has30 minutes a day that they could
prioritize that, but you'rechoosing to prioritize something
else.
Allison (15:00):
Yeah, you are watching Lotus or something.
Daniel (15:03):
That's one thing.
I think the best contentcreators are the best consumers
of like media.
So like you have to be consuminga lot of content to get ideas.
Like ideas don't come fromoriginal idea is just two
obsolete ideas connecting eachother.
You heard this idea and thisidea, and then you're making
your own idea.
That's a new idea.
Usually.
It's not like out of nothing.
(15:24):
The idea has probably been outthere before.
You're just remixing a lot ofit.
So, what I think that the numberone thing people should be doing
is if you see things that areinteresting to you, please
screenshot them.
Please send them to a file thatyou can, or send it to email to
yourself, or have a place whereyou can have a bank of ideas.
So, when you go to write, youreally can have a bank of things
(15:46):
to pull from.
It's hard to start from a blankpage.
So, start from there.
There are winning ideas you'vehad in the past.
You can remix them easily.
You can also put them in chatGPT and say say this a hundred
different ways and find five ofthem that would sound like your
voice.
Tweak it a little bit.
(16:07):
Like this is my most performingpost.
Act like a social media managersimplifies in 20 different ways
that I could say this onLinkedIn or like you can
repurpose things.
We have AI now, like is makingit easier.
So, I don't think that's to benow you like speeding up the
process for that.
Now, AI can make images for you,so you could say, Hey, make a
(16:30):
quote car, like create an imageof this quote.
In this, you can also say,connect with Canva and put it in
like it will connect with Canvaand if you have like a plugin
with Canva and Chat GPT.
There's ways to do it that makesit easier for you, but I think
number one, you've gotta consumemore to and actually swipe the
ideas that you find cool.
(16:51):
Two, you could find 30 minutesto do this, otherwise, this
channel is not the channel thatyou're gonna be successful on.
Like you probably should bedoubling down somewhere else if
you don't believe that socialmedia is the number one channel
or one of your best channels onyour business.
Which I think if you aren't insocial media, it doesn't mean
LinkedIn.
If you aren't in social mediayou're probably losing some form
(17:12):
of social media if you're not onthere.
So, yeah, those are some wayslike you can quickly do it.
honestly, Newsletter, yeah.
I spend a little more timewriting those'cause of the
longer form.
But social, it's like I swipeideas, I remix'em to make them
marketing.
And also another thing peopleforget is inspiration shouldn't
(17:33):
only come from your industry, itshould come from other places
too.
Like you should go follow allthe meme accounts or accounts
that are creating content.
Take their ideas and remix itfor your niche.
And if you take a viral idea,that isn't in your niche and
make it for your niche, it'sprobably gonna do pretty well.
So, there's a lot of ways tocreate content there.
Allison (17:53):
Exactly.
And you know, people say, Ican't find 30 minutes.
But time doesn't have to befound.
It just has to be devoted.
Choose to devote time.
And this is true of you know, ifyou want to write a book, if you
don't read other books, you'renot gonna know how the
formatting of books has changed.
(18:15):
The average book used to be80,000 words.
Now, it's about 60,000 words or55.
So, yeah, you've gotta knowthese things.
You've gotta know that putting a50 minute video of a workshop
that you once did on LinkedIn,50 minutes is like a lot.
Maybe three is better becausepeople don't set aside 50
(18:38):
minutes, but they will scrollthrough while they're waiting in
the doctor's office and watchyour minute and a half video and
make sure you have the captionson'cause they don't want the
rest of the people waiting tohear you.
You know, Captions areimportant.
LinkedIn keeps changing and youmentioned a couple things
especially'cause video, it usedto be everything's horizontal
(18:59):
and then it was, everything'svertical.
But now what's working in thevideo realm for LinkedIn?
Daniel (19:07):
What's working is if you look at TikTok and YouTube
shorts, like the winning videos,but do you have less competition
on LinkedIn because people don'tknow how to do videos.
So, you have to have a goodaudio hook, you gotta have a
good, text overlay.
You gotta have a compellingidea.
(19:27):
It has to be storytelling.
It sounds harder, but if you'regood at video, just go watch the
top creators out there watch howthey do video.
They always do a patterninterrupt at the or hook to get
you into the video.
They always have something onthe screen so if you're not
listening to the audio, you canread.
The story keeps you hooked thewhole time because they start
with a hook, then they starttelling a story, then they give
(19:49):
you a tip or a takeaway, or anemotional feeling.
The first three seconds are themost important in video.
So, you lose if 80% of peopledrop off if you don't have a
good hook.
Ogilvy said this 50 years ago,and people still aren't
listening to that.
Allison (20:07):
Right.
They wanna just do it the waythat they wanna do it.
Which is, not gonna work.
Daniel (20:12):
Yeah.
Allison (20:12):
Whose a creator you like other than the memes, which
are actually quite.
Daniel (20:18):
LinkedIn creators that I like?
Allison (20:19):
Sure.
Daniel (20:20):
Yeah.
I mean, Jay Schwedelson,obviously.
I'm gonna guide him up becausehe's great.
Amelia Sordell is very good.
Charlotte Mayer is really good.
Sophie Miller is really good.
Allison (20:32):
Oh yeah.
Daniel (20:33):
OGs like Justin Welsh are really good.
Who else are?
VIN is really good if you follow'em.
There's so many people who arelike doing really good styles of
content on LinkedIn.
I could name probably like 30,40, 50 people, but I'm just this
off the top of my head of peoplethat.
Allison (20:51):
Right.
And some people who are, if youare thinking well, I don't think
I'm ready for video.
Take a look at Amy SternerNelson's content.
It's almost always a photographof her and her family.
She's got four little girls.
And on Mondays, she and herhusband spend the first three
hours of the day, getting thekids out the door making
(21:14):
lunches, walking'em to school.
And that's real life.
She's a business owner.
She runs the Riveter.
She is fierce, like nobody'sbusiness.
But that's her structure.
And I gotta tell you, I don'tknow her personally, but I love
her content because it's forreal.
And it's not all polished andshiny.
(21:36):
It's just this is real life.
And so, you don't have to dovideo.
You can do something else.
Definitely look outside ofpublishing or look outside of
medicine.
Daniel (21:48):
Another thing, if you're scared of being on video is do
voice overlay.
So, take videos of you doingthings and.
You can record in thebackground, this is me taking my
kids to school and like fivetips from a mom who's busy every
day and like just talk peoplethrough what's happening.
Take multiple clips, stitch themtogether.
(22:10):
So, if you're scared of likebeing I honestly, don't like
video, so I don't double down onvideo.
But I always say like doubledown on things that work for you
on platforms.
So, if you're not good at video.
But I should step out my comfortzone and do it.
But I find things that work.
But if they aren't workinganymore, the ways I do things,
then I will probably double downon video.
Allison (22:34):
Well, I think even just this conversation, you've
doubled down on video becauseI'm gonna slice and dice this
into little tiny fingersandwiches and give them to you.
And they're gonna be you,delivering value packed tips.
Just you, and you'll have asuite of shorts that don't
include my face, that are justyou and you're doing the video.
(22:59):
That's the easiest way to createvideos to have somebody just
chit chat with you.
And then, zip it while you'retalking so that there's no
overlap.
Daniel (23:08):
Yeah.
I mean, that's why I thinkpodcasts are A lot of people
think I need a podcast because Ineed to, I created, so it gets a
lot of downloads, a lot ofattention.
But like podcasts is the bestway to create long form content
that could be taken and createdother long form content.
And you also talk, it's yourselfor someone else, you're taking
(23:29):
ideas from other people like youare using them, bouncing off
each other.
So, podcast is one of the bestways to.
And then, I also say it's thebest way to get someone on a
call for 30 minutes withouthaving to ask them to pick their
brain for 30 minutes.
Because I bet you wouldn't comeon a call if it was someone DM
you like, could I pick yourbrain for 30 minutes for no
(23:49):
reason?
Allison (23:50):
I will say that LinkedIn too, I think people
overlook this has several well,first of all, LinkedIn is a
search engine.
People look for solutions andLinkedIn serves those up.
So, if you're not on LinkedInthinking about that, if you're
still using it as your digitalresume, it's time to upgrade
your thoughts.
And LinkedIn has built in tagswhere they show your content to
(24:15):
people who don't know you yet.
If you host an event, even ifyou're hosting an event on
Eventbrite, put it on LinkedIn.
Build up a LinkedIn newsletter,which in the olden days we used
to call those articles.
But now LinkedIn bundles themunder newsletters so that people
can subscribe.
And there's a little button youhave to click so that you can
(24:38):
put in the SEO description ofthat newsletter issue.
And then, LinkedIn shows thatnewsletter to people who don't
know you yet, which is a greatway to present your services or
your wisdom or your technique topeople who are looking for the
solutions or the insight thatyou provide without having to
(25:00):
hope that your post is shared bysomeone you know.
Which is rainbows and fairywishes.
It's not a reliable way to grow.
So, I love LinkedIn for that'cause they're like, we're
trying to help you, but we'realso serving everyone'cause
everyone's looking for solutionsor the content that they need.
Daniel (25:22):
If you just reverse engineer any social platform you
like, the goal is to keep peopleon the platform.
That's the ultimate goal.
And they want the most engagingcontent.
So, if you create engagingcontent people wanna read and
want to listen to they're gonnashow your content to other
people.
And when they put out a newfeature, they're probably
pushing more attention to thatfeature, so you should probably
(25:43):
put some attention to that newfeature that they're pushing.
Allison (25:47):
You cover a lot of this.
I just learned of theregistration for Marketing Land
is open now.
if people don't know what it is,can you share what it is and how
amazing it is?
Daniel (26:00):
Yeah.
We created this three years ago,I had an idea that I wanted,
like Disneyland meets like amusic festival.
So, we call it a marketingfestival.
And usually it's a one daything.
We have a live dj, we havespeakers that are some of the
best minds in marketing.
(26:21):
This year we did like warp tourslash like Halloween vibes.
So, if you go look, it's try tobe more like Millennial Warp
Tour, like old school.
Millennial vibes.
So yeah, it's trying to breakthe old B2B boring conference
vibe.
And we have the content's great,but there's also fun too.
And the best part I would sayabout all the marketing
(26:43):
conferences is the chat pops offand you meet so many cool other
marketers too.
So, you'll be there and it'svirtual and it's free.
So like why not?
Allison (26:51):
A free festival from marketers and you have three
different tracks, right?
For growth or demand, like Jenor Building Creative, and I told
you.
I'm preparing I will be comingas a cowgirl.
This is my cowboy hat, but thisis for real.
This is'cause I used to havehorses, so this is my riding
(27:14):
hat.
Daniel (27:15):
You definitely would be competing for some of the top
prize with that.
Allison (27:18):
Really.
Well, what do I have to do?
I'll break, get my saddle outand then.
I'll just be a mess the wholetime.
Okay, pivot.
What's a book you think everyoneshould read?
Daniel (27:31):
There's a few I really like Alchemy by Rory Sutherland.
Ogilvy on advertising, theUltimate Sales Letter.
Week copywriting handbook.
I love copywriting books becausethey're the foundation of all
marketing.
They teach you how to get in themind of reader.
And a lot of like, the oldermarketing books too are still
relevant today.
And I think the best, Ifmarketing's still relevant
(27:54):
today, those books are probablygonna be around for a lot
longer.
So, I always like thefoundational marketing books.
You have to write good copy.
You have to understand youraudience and understand the
psychology of your audience.
Those are all the books that Ilove reading and go back to time
and time again.
Allison (28:10):
Those are all great.
I'll have them all in the shownotes.
The one that I love recently isNancy Harhut's book.
Daniel (28:20):
Oh, great book.
Allison (28:22):
She's tremendous.
And I'm in Boston and she'salways on the road, like
traveling globally speaking, butdang, her book is fantastic.
I had her on my podcast a whileback and she's so humble, but
I'm like, you're so effingbrilliant.
Every marketer is gonna be usingthis and calling it their own
(28:42):
technique, but it's not, it'sbased entirely on her research,
which is genius.
Before we wrap, let me just ask,what's one action you want
everyone to take today when itcomes to marketing?
What should they do?
Daniel (29:01):
In spirit of this talk, I would say post something
today.
Just start the journey.
I think the best time to startposting is when you don't have
an audience to be honest,because nobody sees it.
It's just something that in yourmind that people will find
interesting.
Everybody has somethinginteresting to say, so post
something today.
Allison (29:21):
You heard it.
Daniel would not steer youwrong.
I want you to show up foryourself.
Show up for the people you know,need your insight.
You are an expert in your field.
You're a storyteller.
You have so much knowledge, butit's not wisdom until you pass
it on.
So, before you write a book,test out your content on social
(29:44):
or in an email or whatever, in avideo.
You've gotta get it out there.
Don't stay in the cave writingyour genius manuscript.
You gotta trot out your contentand see what works.
And it's low stakes.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
Do us a favor, share the showwith someone who needs it.
(30:08):
You know that they're not gonnafind it on their own because
they're busy doing all thethings that they shouldn't.
But you know what they should bedoing.
And they should be listening toDaniel and doing exactly what he
says.
Also, sign up and get registeredfor marketing land.
Don't miss it.
You'll miss a lot of fun.
And there are prizes, right?
No one's allowed to come as acowgirl'cause that's mine.
Daniel (30:30):
Yeah.
You've owned that costume.
I'm gonna make sure that nobodyputs
Allison (30:34):
Thank you.
Daniel (30:34):
That one on.
Yeah.
Allison (30:36):
Alright folks, I'll see you next week.
Comments are the best content in the world.
(00:02):
And also, what's the amazingthing about social media?
It gives you signal.
So, people are liking thatcomment.
That's probably something thatwould be a good post.
Allison (00:36):
If you want to grow an audience that actually pays
attention and that sticks withyou.
This one's for you.
Daniel Murray from the MarketingMillennials Podcast is a legend
now, but he didn't start asthat.
He started just like every oneof us with one foot in front of
(00:58):
the other every single day.
But the marketing millennials,in terms of a platform on
LinkedIn has over a millionfollowers.
That is massive folks.
And it is possible.
Plus this global hit of apodcast, which you need to be
listening to.
And don't worry, I'm gonna giveyou all the links in the show
notes.
(01:18):
But Daniel's here to dosomething generous and to tell
us how he did something thatmost people overlook.
He kept his content consistentand sharp and easy to digest
because nobody has time foranything else.
Nobody has time for gimmicks orfluff or stay tuned and I'll
(01:38):
really give you the tip.
No one has time, especially notin the LinkedIn land.
So, he's here, he is gonna tellus what's working now, and smart
things that you can do, and youcan use today without needing a
team or a budget.
Let's get into it.
Daniel, thank you.
(01:58):
We're so happy that you're here.
People have.
Asked so many questions and sentso many questions.
And I have them for you.
Daniel (02:06):
Sweet.
Yeah.
I mean, Thank you for thatintro.
I wouldn't call myself a legend.
I feel like I'm just a marketerstill putting one foot in front
of each other, figuring thingsout.
So I'm excited to chat andanswer whatever questions you
have.
Allison (02:19):
Well.
Great.
You don't call yourself alegend, but I do call you an
expert.
And here's what I say to all theexperts I work with.
You don't get to tell me what Iget to call you.
If I think you're an expert,then who are you to tell me I'm
wrong?
Isn't that kind of rude?
So I think you are.
What you're doing is legendaryand I appreciate everything you
(02:39):
do.
So there, take that and smokeit.
Daniel (02:43):
I'm not responding anywhere.
I'll take the.
Allison (02:45):
I know, I know.
Don't talk back to me.
You're a millennial.
I'm Gen X.
So, You've built this massiveopportunity, this massive we
call it a platform, but everyonegags on that term but it is.
You've built this massiveaudience with marketing
millennials, but it didn'thappen overnight.
It wasn't like you were runningan agency and said, I'm gonna
(03:08):
put all this money into this.
Most experts and highlyaccomplished people on LinkedIn
are getting things wrong aboutmarketing on LinkedIn, whether
they're Author's or consultants,coaches, psychologists, running
the ER at a hospital.
What are they doing wrong andgetting wrong about marketing on
(03:30):
platforms like LinkedIn?
Daniel (03:32):
Yeah, I think couple things that I like come to mind
where I see over and over iswhen it comes to any social
media, the audience is thealgorithm, and you have to
create content that works withthe audience.
And that doesn't only mean likeIdea idea wise, it also means
format wise.
(03:52):
It means like digestible wise,it means like simplicity wise.
First thing you gotta thinkabout is like, what are the pain
points my audiences are having?
What's gonna resonate with them?
I always have the filter ofbefore I post would I share this
in a group chat with a bunch ofmarketers, yes or no?
And if I wouldn't, then it'sprobably not a good post.
(04:14):
So, that's like one.
I think a lot of people arewriting content that is not
interesting enough or not formatenough in the right way for the
audience, even though they thinkthey are writing it.
Which is no, you have a lot ofpeople have great ideas out
there.
You just dunno how to formatthem in a way that's digestible
for people.
(04:34):
Number two, I would say peopleget wrong is like, at first you
have to do really unscalablethings.
And what I mean by that is to dothe unscalable things to scale,
so comment on other experts inyour field like, be social,
respond back to people, connectwith people.
(04:55):
If you're not connecting with20, 30 people in your audience a
day, you're probably doingsomething wrong at the
beginning.
After you get to a points, itnaturally happens, but at the
beginning you need to do theseunscalable things like respond
to every comment, respond to allthe comments.
And now LinkedIn launched likeimpressions on comments.
So you can now see if yourcomments are doing good and then
(05:16):
you can use them for content.
Like a comments some of the bestcontent out there.
So number two is like people arenot doing the unscalable things.
And three is consistency wins onany platform.
And I think a lot of people giveup way too early.
Like think just have to keepputting things out there for the
audience to trust.
(05:37):
And putting things out there ina succinct way that your
audience would understand, likethis is for them.
And keep testing, trying newthings.
Eventually some posts will hitand then you can start using
those ideas to create more andmore posts.
But a lot of people aren'tconsistent enough on platforms.
They think, oh, I post once I'mdone.
(05:59):
or I post twice, i'm done.
If you really wanna win, yougotta put out at least a post a
day during the weekday.
If you really wanna wait orthree to five, but at least put
out more content to it.
Allison (06:10):
I think you're hitting on something that's so
important.
When you are commenting onsomeone else's post.
Oftentimes those are the mostmeaty pieces of content.
And what people do is theycomment and then they press go.
And then they lose track.
And I find that if it's adiscussion and it's actually a
(06:33):
genuine comment back.
Some of that content isreusable.
Copy and paste it into a docbefore you move away.
And if you can do even a searchfor your own comments.
On LinkedIn or even in aFacebook community, look at the
(06:54):
comments and you might be like,oh my God, that's essentially a
blog post.
You can make a newsletter out ofthat.
Why don't I post it again, butas a post this time.
Because it takes the pressureoff of you creating content.
If you go, oh, someone justqueued up a question and I had
this gut feeling of I reallyneed to step in here'cause
(07:14):
they're about to turn left whenthey should be turning right?
That's what people want and needand people are really doing you
a favor when they're asking aquestion out there and you show
up and you serve.
Because not only are youserving, but you are creating
content in reaction to someone'sgenuine issue, rather than you
(07:37):
sitting in a corner by yourselfgoing, what should my content
be?
Daniel (07:41):
Comments are the best content in the world.
And also, what's the amazingthing about social media?
It gives you signal.
So, people are liking thatcomment.
That's probably something thatwould be a good post.
And the other thing I would sayis that the biggest thing I see
a lot of people not doing that Ithink they should be doing is if
you find posts that are workingfor you, you could do it in 50
(08:05):
different ways and people arenot gonna remember what you
posted yesterday.
So, reuse your top ideas indifferent formats, different
ways.
I post the same thing that Iposted six months ago, and it'll
do the same amount of likes andcomments.
And people don't realize, oreven three months ago, I reuse
content all the time because Ithink first of all, there's
(08:26):
always new people entering youraudience so they don't know who
you are.
And second, people are notpaying as much attention to you
as you think.
So reusing content is a greatway to just take some pressure
off of you having to alwayscreate ideas.
Just tweak it a little bit,remix it a little bit, put it in
a different format, and nobody'sgonna realize you posted that
(08:47):
before.
Allison (08:49):
And they might not have seen the first post or the
second post anyway.
And they could have been in adifferent mindset.
Nike doesn't change.
Just do it every time we see anad.
Just do, it means somethingdifferent depending on when you
see it or when you're reallythinking about it, or if you're
just passing by.
So yes, stick to it.
More isn't better.
(09:09):
It just waters everything down Ithink, and muddies everything.
Now, with people think contenthas to be polished and perfect.
And when you did say that peoplearen't formatting things
correctly, but your posts arepunchy and simple and packed
with value.
So, when you talk aboutformatting specifically on
(09:32):
LinkedIn right now, what'sworking?
Daniel (09:36):
A few things are working.
First of all, like some thingsthat are always gonna work is
like you have to nail aheadline.
And a lot of people forget thatan image is a headline too.
So, if you doing a quote orsomething that you want to be
front and center, an image witha quote or an image with
(09:57):
something that is like aheadline for the post and it
gets people stopping'causeimages take up more of the feed
than a text post.
So, you're trying to get as muchattention of that.
So first I would say using hookswill always work.
So like the first three lines ofyour copy and your image should
always be there.
People who are doing video, ifyou're really good at video,
(10:17):
now's the time to do video onLinkedIn.
But if you're doing video still,like video's a little different
because there's more componentsyou need.
An audio hook you need like anoverlay image on the video,
that's a hook as well.
You need to have your strongestpoint upfront, like you can't
wait for the story to developbecause people will stop.
(10:40):
So, you need that upfront.
So video are really good.
If you're good at video, I woulddouble down on video too.
Carousels are working very well,like image carousels, like
multiple, like images together.
Those are like the three thingsthat I see working really well.
And obviously, I create a lot ofmemes.
I know memes work becausethey're shareable.
(11:03):
So, like I always think aboutreverse engineer from the share
of what would you share and thencreate content that you would
share.
Like would you share a whitepaper with your friend?
Probably not.
Would you share like a long,huge post that takes forever to
get to the point?
Probably not.
But if something's punchy, likean image or a video.
(11:25):
You're probably gonna share thatbecause one, like as a person,
you're like creating aconversation with someone else,
like saying oh, this isinteresting.
Or showing you found somethingcool or you want to show that
this is funny and we're in thesame boat together, or like,
this is the cool idea.
We should use this.
That's what you gotta think, yougotta reverse engineer from the
share because the whole goal oflike great social media is
(11:48):
getting it to be shared.
Outside of social media, so likein Slack channels, in dms, in
group messages, in textmessages, in WhatsApp, wherever.
So, reverse engineering, likewhat would you share?
And that's probably greatcontent on LinkedIn.
Allison (12:05):
When you said, would you share a white paper?
It just made me laugh so hard onthe inside because sharing a
white paper feels like throwingthe phone book at someone.
Like here.
Daniel (12:17):
Yeah.
Allison (12:18):
it's 20 pages.
There's something in it for you.
No thank you.
Why don't you just forward theinternet to me, it's like, it's
too much.
It's hilarious.
Are white paper still a thing?
Daniel (12:28):
I don't know.
I think some B2B markers haven'tchanged their playbook for 15
years, like still putting outwhite paper Z books, posting
their webinar, just their linkon company page.
They're still doing the samethings.
I get it.
A lot of people are smallmarketing teams.
They're checking a box, likethey said Hey, we need a
webinar.
We need to promote it.
Just make a LinkedIn postquickly.
(12:49):
But I am on the boat of ifyou're on any social media
channel, if you're not giving it110%.
Like I just had a podcast with.
Someone who's social media?
His name is Jay Stan, he is asocial media guy, but he said
social media is the front porchof your brand.
So if you like, the first entrypoint for a lot of people to
your brand.
So, if you putting out lowquality, boring stuff, like
(13:11):
people are gonna assume yourbrand is that.
So like your social media shouldmirror what you want your
audience to see and share and bea part of.
So, I think that's the mentalityyou had to go in with social
media.
Allison (13:24):
I think people spend way too much time trying to
create content that allows themto hide and not really show up.
Oh, you created a beautiful likegraphic on Canva.
You can get lost inside ofCanva, so please don't.
But also we don't get to knowyou.
It's a quote card, and yes, thebackground you picked was
(13:48):
lovely, but like it doesn'tallow anyone to connect with
you.
Even your gorgeous glamor shots.
We can't connect.
We know that you pose for thatand someone did your hair.
It's just easier to take aselfie video when you're sitting
in carpool, which is what I do'cause that is when I have time.
And those are the videos thatget the most engagement.
(14:10):
And people are like do you havemore tips?
Yes, I do.
'cause I had to sit there for 22minutes.
And in 22 minutes I can do ashit ton.
Well, you do say consistencybeats, hacks.
And it's tough advice whenpeople are short on time, but
busy people get things done,right?
What does a sustainable contentcreation tactic look like for
(14:34):
you?
Usually, people don't have twohours of a chunk.
So, you could do what I do,which is show up a hair early
for carpool, pick up, and usethat time.
Daniel (14:48):
Two things I think, I hate to say it, if you don't
have time for social media, thenit's not a priority for you.
So like you have, everybody has30 minutes a day that they could
prioritize that, but you'rechoosing to prioritize something
else.
Allison (15:00):
Yeah, you are watching Lotus or something.
Daniel (15:03):
That's one thing.
I think the best contentcreators are the best consumers
of like media.
So like you have to be consuminga lot of content to get ideas.
Like ideas don't come fromoriginal idea is just two
obsolete ideas connecting eachother.
You heard this idea and thisidea, and then you're making
your own idea.
That's a new idea.
Usually.
It's not like out of nothing.
(15:24):
The idea has probably been outthere before.
You're just remixing a lot ofit.
So, what I think that the numberone thing people should be doing
is if you see things that areinteresting to you, please
screenshot them.
Please send them to a file thatyou can, or send it to email to
yourself, or have a place whereyou can have a bank of ideas.
So, when you go to write, youreally can have a bank of things
(15:46):
to pull from.
It's hard to start from a blankpage.
So, start from there.
There are winning ideas you'vehad in the past.
You can remix them easily.
You can also put them in chatGPT and say say this a hundred
different ways and find five ofthem that would sound like your
voice.
Tweak it a little bit.
(16:07):
Like this is my most performingpost.
Act like a social media managersimplifies in 20 different ways
that I could say this onLinkedIn or like you can
repurpose things.
We have AI now, like is makingit easier.
So, I don't think that's to benow you like speeding up the
process for that.
Now, AI can make images for you,so you could say, Hey, make a
(16:30):
quote car, like create an imageof this quote.
In this, you can also say,connect with Canva and put it in
like it will connect with Canvaand if you have like a plugin
with Canva and Chat GPT.
There's ways to do it that makesit easier for you, but I think
number one, you've gotta consumemore to and actually swipe the
ideas that you find cool.
(16:51):
Two, you could find 30 minutesto do this, otherwise, this
channel is not the channel thatyou're gonna be successful on.
Like you probably should bedoubling down somewhere else if
you don't believe that socialmedia is the number one channel
or one of your best channels onyour business.
Which I think if you aren't insocial media, it doesn't mean
LinkedIn.
If you aren't in social mediayou're probably losing some form
(17:12):
of social media if you're not onthere.
So, yeah, those are some wayslike you can quickly do it.
honestly, Newsletter, yeah.
I spend a little more timewriting those'cause of the
longer form.
But social, it's like I swipeideas, I remix'em to make them
marketing.
And also another thing peopleforget is inspiration shouldn't
(17:33):
only come from your industry, itshould come from other places
too.
Like you should go follow allthe meme accounts or accounts
that are creating content.
Take their ideas and remix itfor your niche.
And if you take a viral idea,that isn't in your niche and
make it for your niche, it'sprobably gonna do pretty well.
So, there's a lot of ways tocreate content there.
Allison (17:53):
Exactly.
And you know, people say, Ican't find 30 minutes.
But time doesn't have to befound.
It just has to be devoted.
Choose to devote time.
And this is true of you know, ifyou want to write a book, if you
don't read other books, you'renot gonna know how the
formatting of books has changed.
(18:15):
The average book used to be80,000 words.
Now, it's about 60,000 words or55.
So, yeah, you've gotta knowthese things.
You've gotta know that putting a50 minute video of a workshop
that you once did on LinkedIn,50 minutes is like a lot.
Maybe three is better becausepeople don't set aside 50
(18:38):
minutes, but they will scrollthrough while they're waiting in
the doctor's office and watchyour minute and a half video and
make sure you have the captionson'cause they don't want the
rest of the people waiting tohear you.
You know, Captions areimportant.
LinkedIn keeps changing and youmentioned a couple things
especially'cause video, it usedto be everything's horizontal
(18:59):
and then it was, everything'svertical.
But now what's working in thevideo realm for LinkedIn?
Daniel (19:07):
What's working is if you look at TikTok and YouTube
shorts, like the winning videos,but do you have less competition
on LinkedIn because people don'tknow how to do videos.
So, you have to have a goodaudio hook, you gotta have a
good, text overlay.
You gotta have a compellingidea.
(19:27):
It has to be storytelling.
It sounds harder, but if you'regood at video, just go watch the
top creators out there watch howthey do video.
They always do a patterninterrupt at the or hook to get
you into the video.
They always have something onthe screen so if you're not
listening to the audio, you canread.
The story keeps you hooked thewhole time because they start
with a hook, then they starttelling a story, then they give
(19:49):
you a tip or a takeaway, or anemotional feeling.
The first three seconds are themost important in video.
So, you lose if 80% of peopledrop off if you don't have a
good hook.
Ogilvy said this 50 years ago,and people still aren't
listening to that.
Allison (20:07):
Right.
They wanna just do it the waythat they wanna do it.
Which is, not gonna work.
Daniel (20:12):
Yeah.
Allison (20:12):
Whose a creator you like other than the memes, which
are actually quite.
Daniel (20:18):
LinkedIn creators that I like?
Allison (20:19):
Sure.
Daniel (20:20):
Yeah.
I mean, Jay Schwedelson,obviously.
I'm gonna guide him up becausehe's great.
Amelia Sordell is very good.
Charlotte Mayer is really good.
Sophie Miller is really good.
Allison (20:32):
Oh yeah.
Daniel (20:33):
OGs like Justin Welsh are really good.
Who else are?
VIN is really good if you follow'em.
There's so many people who arelike doing really good styles of
content on LinkedIn.
I could name probably like 30,40, 50 people, but I'm just this
off the top of my head of peoplethat.
Allison (20:51):
Right.
And some people who are, if youare thinking well, I don't think
I'm ready for video.
Take a look at Amy SternerNelson's content.
It's almost always a photographof her and her family.
She's got four little girls.
And on Mondays, she and herhusband spend the first three
hours of the day, getting thekids out the door making
(21:14):
lunches, walking'em to school.
And that's real life.
She's a business owner.
She runs the Riveter.
She is fierce, like nobody'sbusiness.
But that's her structure.
And I gotta tell you, I don'tknow her personally, but I love
her content because it's forreal.
And it's not all polished andshiny.
(21:36):
It's just this is real life.
And so, you don't have to dovideo.
You can do something else.
Definitely look outside ofpublishing or look outside of
medicine.
Daniel (21:48):
Another thing, if you're scared of being on video is do
voice overlay.
So, take videos of you doingthings and.
You can record in thebackground, this is me taking my
kids to school and like fivetips from a mom who's busy every
day and like just talk peoplethrough what's happening.
Take multiple clips, stitch themtogether.
(22:10):
So, if you're scared of likebeing I honestly, don't like
video, so I don't double down onvideo.
But I always say like doubledown on things that work for you
on platforms.
So, if you're not good at video.
But I should step out my comfortzone and do it.
But I find things that work.
But if they aren't workinganymore, the ways I do things,
then I will probably double downon video.
Allison (22:34):
Well, I think even just this conversation, you've
doubled down on video becauseI'm gonna slice and dice this
into little tiny fingersandwiches and give them to you.
And they're gonna be you,delivering value packed tips.
Just you, and you'll have asuite of shorts that don't
include my face, that are justyou and you're doing the video.
(22:59):
That's the easiest way to createvideos to have somebody just
chit chat with you.
And then, zip it while you'retalking so that there's no
overlap.
Daniel (23:08):
Yeah.
I mean, that's why I thinkpodcasts are A lot of people
think I need a podcast because Ineed to, I created, so it gets a
lot of downloads, a lot ofattention.
But like podcasts is the bestway to create long form content
that could be taken and createdother long form content.
And you also talk, it's yourselfor someone else, you're taking
(23:29):
ideas from other people like youare using them, bouncing off
each other.
So, podcast is one of the bestways to.
And then, I also say it's thebest way to get someone on a
call for 30 minutes withouthaving to ask them to pick their
brain for 30 minutes.
Because I bet you wouldn't comeon a call if it was someone DM
you like, could I pick yourbrain for 30 minutes for no
(23:49):
reason?
Allison (23:50):
I will say that LinkedIn too, I think people
overlook this has several well,first of all, LinkedIn is a
search engine.
People look for solutions andLinkedIn serves those up.
So, if you're not on LinkedInthinking about that, if you're
still using it as your digitalresume, it's time to upgrade
your thoughts.
And LinkedIn has built in tagswhere they show your content to
(24:15):
people who don't know you yet.
If you host an event, even ifyou're hosting an event on
Eventbrite, put it on LinkedIn.
Build up a LinkedIn newsletter,which in the olden days we used
to call those articles.
But now LinkedIn bundles themunder newsletters so that people
can subscribe.
And there's a little button youhave to click so that you can
(24:38):
put in the SEO description ofthat newsletter issue.
And then, LinkedIn shows thatnewsletter to people who don't
know you yet, which is a greatway to present your services or
your wisdom or your technique topeople who are looking for the
solutions or the insight thatyou provide without having to
(25:00):
hope that your post is shared bysomeone you know.
Which is rainbows and fairywishes.
It's not a reliable way to grow.
So, I love LinkedIn for that'cause they're like, we're
trying to help you, but we'realso serving everyone'cause
everyone's looking for solutionsor the content that they need.
Daniel (25:22):
If you just reverse engineer any social platform you
like, the goal is to keep peopleon the platform.
That's the ultimate goal.
And they want the most engagingcontent.
So, if you create engagingcontent people wanna read and
want to listen to they're gonnashow your content to other
people.
And when they put out a newfeature, they're probably
pushing more attention to thatfeature, so you should probably
(25:43):
put some attention to that newfeature that they're pushing.
Allison (25:47):
You cover a lot of this.
I just learned of theregistration for Marketing Land
is open now.
if people don't know what it is,can you share what it is and how
amazing it is?
Daniel (26:00):
Yeah.
We created this three years ago,I had an idea that I wanted,
like Disneyland meets like amusic festival.
So, we call it a marketingfestival.
And usually it's a one daything.
We have a live dj, we havespeakers that are some of the
best minds in marketing.
(26:21):
This year we did like warp tourslash like Halloween vibes.
So, if you go look, it's try tobe more like Millennial Warp
Tour, like old school.
Millennial vibes.
So yeah, it's trying to breakthe old B2B boring conference
vibe.
And we have the content's great,but there's also fun too.
And the best part I would sayabout all the marketing
(26:43):
conferences is the chat pops offand you meet so many cool other
marketers too.
So, you'll be there and it'svirtual and it's free.
So like why not?
Allison (26:51):
A free festival from marketers and you have three
different tracks, right?
For growth or demand, like Jenor Building Creative, and I told
you.
I'm preparing I will be comingas a cowgirl.
This is my cowboy hat, but thisis for real.
This is'cause I used to havehorses, so this is my riding
(27:14):
hat.
Daniel (27:15):
You definitely would be competing for some of the top
prize with that.
Allison (27:18):
Really.
Well, what do I have to do?
I'll break, get my saddle outand then.
I'll just be a mess the wholetime.
Okay, pivot.
What's a book you think everyoneshould read?
Daniel (27:31):
There's a few I really like Alchemy by Rory Sutherland.
Ogilvy on advertising, theUltimate Sales Letter.
Week copywriting handbook.
I love copywriting books becausethey're the foundation of all
marketing.
They teach you how to get in themind of reader.
And a lot of like, the oldermarketing books too are still
relevant today.
And I think the best, Ifmarketing's still relevant
(27:54):
today, those books are probablygonna be around for a lot
longer.
So, I always like thefoundational marketing books.
You have to write good copy.
You have to understand youraudience and understand the
psychology of your audience.
Those are all the books that Ilove reading and go back to time
and time again.
Allison (28:10):
Those are all great.
I'll have them all in the shownotes.
The one that I love recently isNancy Harhut's book.
Daniel (28:20):
Oh, great book.
Allison (28:22):
She's tremendous.
And I'm in Boston and she'salways on the road, like
traveling globally speaking, butdang, her book is fantastic.
I had her on my podcast a whileback and she's so humble, but
I'm like, you're so effingbrilliant.
Every marketer is gonna be usingthis and calling it their own
(28:42):
technique, but it's not, it'sbased entirely on her research,
which is genius.
Before we wrap, let me just ask,what's one action you want
everyone to take today when itcomes to marketing?
What should they do?
Daniel (29:01):
In spirit of this talk, I would say post something
today.
Just start the journey.
I think the best time to startposting is when you don't have
an audience to be honest,because nobody sees it.
It's just something that in yourmind that people will find
interesting.
Everybody has somethinginteresting to say, so post
something today.
Allison (29:21):
You heard it.
Daniel would not steer youwrong.
I want you to show up foryourself.
Show up for the people you know,need your insight.
You are an expert in your field.
You're a storyteller.
You have so much knowledge, butit's not wisdom until you pass
it on.
So, before you write a book,test out your content on social
(29:44):
or in an email or whatever, in avideo.
You've gotta get it out there.
Don't stay in the cave writingyour genius manuscript.
You gotta trot out your contentand see what works.
And it's low stakes.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
Do us a favor, share the showwith someone who needs it.
(30:08):
You know that they're not gonnafind it on their own because
they're busy doing all thethings that they shouldn't.
But you know what they should bedoing.
And they should be listening toDaniel and doing exactly what he
says.
Also, sign up and get registeredfor marketing land.
Don't miss it.
You'll miss a lot of fun.
And there are prizes, right?
No one's allowed to come as acowgirl'cause that's mine.
Daniel (30:30):
Yeah.
You've owned that costume.
I'm gonna make sure that nobodyputs
Allison (30:34):
Thank you.
Daniel (30:34):
That one on.
Yeah.
Allison (30:36):
Alright folks, I'll see you next week.
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