April 29, 2025 • 42 mins
What if your book doesn’t fly off the shelves just because it’s published?
Allison Lane dives into the truth about book marketing myths with editor and author Terry Whalin. From breaking down publisher expectations to showing you how to reverse-engineer your author strategy, this episode gives you the clarity and tools to stop spinning and start selling.
Whether you’ve just launched your first book or have a shelf full of titles, don’t miss this straight talk on building visibility and making your book work for you.
Listen now and find out how to take charge of your book’s success.
What You’ll Learn:
- The biggest myth authors believe about publishers (and what to do instead).
- How to create book marketing momentum using the Rule of 5.
- What works in 2025 for getting reviews, visibility, and real book sales
Resources Mentioned:
- Terry Whalin’s blog spot: https://terrywhalin.blogspot.com/ | Subscribe: https://t.co/W6uU64u6aA
- Terry Whalin’s Book: 10 Publishing Myths by Terry Whalin: Insights Every Author Needs to Succeed - https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781642794526
- Publishing Offer - Get the book + $200 in bonuses: https://www.marketing4books.com/us-ord
- Connect with Terry on LinkedIn over 19,400 connections: https://www.linkedin.com/in/terrywhalin/ | on X 175K followers: https://x.com/terrywhalin
- Join Bestseller Launch School: https://www.lanelit.com/bestseller
- Book recommendation: Kenny’s Bright Red Scooter: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781636981352
Timestamps:
[02:00] – The #1 myth authors believe about publishers
[08:30] – How a children’s book author sold 10,000 copies through the military
[17:00] – Terry’s marketing wake-up call and the power of blogging
[24:00] – Why your book needs reviews—and how to get them
[30:00] – The 11th publishing myth and a free resource you need
Watch here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MKfJB_W0WQ
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Terry (00:00):
When you connect, I always encourage people, don't
(00:02):
just say, buy my book orsomething like that.
I mean, the key is focus on thebenefits of your book.
Why should somebody your book?
What are those benefits thatthey're gonna get out of reading
your book?
Allison (00:40):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge.
This is marketing for thepublishing world.
I'm Allison Lane.
I'm your literary chaperone,your Sherpa, book coach
marketer, lifelong publicist.
That's a story I'll tell youanother day.
I'm here to help you write thebook.
You know you're meant to writeand actually launch it, so it
(01:04):
sells.
We're here because yourpublishing path should be
exciting.
It should be fun.
It should not be an adventurewhere you're lost in the woods
because it should freaking work.
You should know where you'regoing.
There should be no guessinggames, and no big fat surprises,
(01:25):
and certainly the overwhelm.
I just don't want it for you.
So, this is real talk that movesthe needle for you, and that's
why I bring in experts fromthroughout the industry and
beyond because marketing and thebest of marketing comes from
everywhere.
(01:46):
Not just publishing, not justfrom one industry.
So, that's what we're bringinghere.
Today, we are tackling a topicthat trips up even the smartest
of authors, even people who thisis their life.
We're talking aboutexpectations.
Expectations because now you sayyou've written the book.
(02:07):
Now what?
Now what are you supposed to do?
What does your publisher do?
How do you make sure your booksells once it's out?
How do you get reviews and ravereviews?
How do you pitch media or getmedia buzz?
And if you want all thosethings, but you don't know how
to get them, you are travelingwithout a strategy.
(02:30):
Strategy is marketing jargon fora plan, okay?
So that all these, marketingglossary words, it just means
you don't know where you'regoing, so you don't know how to
get there.
But joining me today is TerryWhalin.
He's an editor and an author ofdozens of books, over 60 books,
(02:53):
so that I just stopped counting.
Former literary agent andacquisitions editor at Morgan
James Publishing.
He has seen it all and he's hereto help you steer clear of big.
Myths and pitfalls so you have aclear view of where you're
(03:14):
going.
So, let's jump in.
Terry, thank you so much forbeing here and for being so
patient with me for my techmishap.
We had recorded this a month agoand then I had to come back to
you and say something was weirdwith the tech, which is not a
shock to people who know me.
Terry (03:35):
I'm glad to be here, Allison, and look forward to
this.
Absolutely.
Allison (03:39):
Let's jump in'cause I know that most people are not
full-time author, if they were,they'd be an expert in
publishing, right?
Or maybe not, maybe they'd justbe an expert in their field and
they happen to write books.
So, what I see happening is thatpeople jump in and they either
get overwhelmed'cause they feellike they need to know
(04:01):
everything, or they haveexpectations that are based on
somebody else's experience orwhat they've seen in movie.
And they're sure they know, butthey really don't.
So, that means that they'remaking mistakes or running into
troubles that you're here toclear up.
(04:21):
So, what's a mistake peoplemaking when it comes to setting
expectations for their book?
Terry (04:28):
There's all kinds of them and that's why I've written this
book 10 Publishing Myths
Allison (04:33):
Yep, I have it here.
Thank you.
Terry (04:35):
But yeah.
I find that authors often havethe wrong expectation.
For example, one of the myths isthat my publisher will market
and sell my book.
Now, that's a true statement.
Your publisher, however youpublish, is invests in your book
and once you to succeed.
But the reality is our interestand our passion for the book is
(05:00):
divided.
At Morgan James, we publishclose to 200 books a year, so we
have a lot going on at thepublishing house.
And I like to remind authorsthat they're the ones that have
the greatest passion, greatestconcern about their book.
So, they need to take thatpassion and really fuel that
into their everyday actions.
(05:22):
So they're doing something totell people about their book out
there.
Allison (05:27):
I think that you hit on something too, and I just, I
wanna illuminate when we say,you know what, publisher will
market your book.
Marketing is everything frompromotion to website development
(05:48):
to events and speakingpublicity.
Which is earned social media,digital media advertising,
digital ads just every activity,every effort under marketing.
So that's like saying somebodyelse is in charge of everything.
(06:09):
And it's not true.
It's'cause the publisher is notgoing to pitch you to keynote at
a conference.
They are not your marketingdirector.
You are your marketing director,welcome to you.
Let me introduce you to you,your in charge of your own
marketing.
(06:29):
And then, the book can certainlybe a door opener.
A book will certainly give yousomething to tout in your bio,
especially when you pitch.
Hey, I'd like to speak on thispanel, and I'm the author of 10
publishing Myths.
This is credibility that'spackaged and pocket size, right?
(06:53):
But it is just one way thatpeople can get your genius.
You are here on my podcast.
That's another way that you'remarketing your book.
Terry (07:05):
Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Allison and I like what DavidHancock, our founder often says.
He says, no publisher doesenough.
He just throws that out there.
But then he also says, we domore than most publishers and I
really do believe that's true.
We're still coaching, helpingauthors that came to us in 2005.
It's pretty unusual, but we'rein it for the long haul to help
(07:28):
you sell books.
We've actually started this,like an open coaching session on
Tuesdays that authors can get oncall like this.
They can all see each other andthey can ask their questions.
I think that's great that's oneof the things that we're doing
just to help our authors.
We also have a private Facebookgroup for our authors.
They're all interacting witheach other, going to each
(07:49):
other's events publishers wouldnever put all their authors into
a private Facebook.
Allison (07:54):
They really do not.
Terry (07:55):
They don't want them to be interacting with each other.
As a group of authors, we'restronger if we cooperate with
each other rather than compete.
So it's just a differentphilosophy.
We have over 1400 authors thatare in our private Facebook
group.
That's an amazing place just togo over there.
Allison (08:12):
Yeah.
Terry (08:13):
See what other people are doing, ask questions, get ideas.
That's a gold mine over there.
Allison (08:20):
I wanna point out too, my observation here is that
'cause you did say that you haveauthors who are still working
with you from 2005.
Is that what you said?
Terry (08:32):
That's right.
Long ways back.
Allison (08:34):
Long ways back.
So, that kind of longevity istremendous, that long-term
relationship.
And also the landscape evolves,opportunities evolve, the world
evolves.
Your book is new to the personwho finds it today, and maybe
you have something else to say.
So, I love that you're talkingabout, authors stick around and
(08:56):
they help each other becauseafter launch day is one day,
it's like a birthday party.
Ta-da blow out the candles.
But that's just the start.
You continue.
Terry (09:09):
And your connection to other people and to the market
is very important.
Do a few picture books, forexample at Morgan James, we
don't do a lot, but we do a fewpicture books, maybe 10, 15 a
year.
And the other day David wastelling me about this picture
book that we'd sold 10,000copies of it during December
(09:29):
last year.
Now, if you know a thing at all
Allison (09:32):
Wow.
Terry (09:32):
about the book market to sell couple hundred picture
books during the lifetime ofyour book that's cool.
But to sell 10,000, that'sunusual.
So, I said, how in the world didthe author do that?
it turns out this picture bookhas a connection to the United
States military and ithighlights all the different
branches of the service.
(09:54):
And this author had a connectionto the Navy.
And she told us about thatconnection and then used that
connection to get the book intoevery commissary in the world
about Christmas time.
And so you can imagine parentswent in there, they saw this
cute little book, and theybought it.
(10:15):
So, that's how those 10,000copies happen.
Allison (10:18):
But that happened because the author introduced
that conversation to you, right?
It wasn't you saying, okay,let's see how we're going to
improve distribution.
Can you tell us what the book isand I'll make sure that the link
is in the show notes.
Terry (10:36):
Book is, and I think it's called Kenny has a bright red
scooter or something like that'sthe name of it.
But and you a retired militaryguy that rides around his
scooter and is interested inother veterans and that kind of
thing.
I guess the reason I told thatis it all begins with an active
author that understands thatthey have to do something the
(10:58):
book to sell.
Now, we have the connections toget the book out there into
these commissaries, all over theworld.
But the author has to sort ofdrive that passion.
Allison (11:09):
Okay, so this is the book is Kenny's Bright Red
Scooter by Amanda Klein andJulie Bourne is the illustrator.
So, I'm gonna make sure thatthis is in the show notes
because this is, it's actually atrue story of a senior citizen
Navy veteran who accidentally,but not surprisingly, captures
(11:33):
the hearts of people around theworld on TikTok.
How charming.
Okay.
Awesome.
I think that's such a goodexample of an author being their
marketing director and thenincluding the publisher in that
opportunity.
I'm sure you guys were happy tofigure out.
(11:55):
Okay, how are we gonna managethis now that we know there's an
opportunity, but it's not yourjob to figure it out.
Which goes back to what I wantpeople to know is it's up to you
to find that path and to includeyour publisher, or your digital
marketer, or your ads person oryour publicist.
(12:18):
none of them do everything andnone of them have access to
everything else you're doing.
So, you are the hub as theauthor.
Terry (12:28):
Yeah, that's right.
And I mean, the crazy thingabout the book business is that
there's not just a 1, 2, 3formula.
Each of us are on this journeyand we have to figure out where
do we find that right connectionfor us to get published, and
then also to market the book.
It takes who you know as much aswhat you know at the end of the
(12:48):
day.
And that's an ongoing processfor all of us to try to figure
that out.
Allison (12:53):
Yeah.
I do think that a lot of times,now that people are hearing
this, they're like, maybe I knowsomebody at the Navy and maybe I
can get into the commissaries.
What I want to point out is whatworks for one author and one
book is not necessarily rightfor you.
It's like saying, I like thosepants.
(13:13):
Do you want my pants or do youwant pants that fit you, that
are inspired by the pants thatI'm wearing?
So, we need to make sure thatauthors are paying attention to
what other authors are doingwhat activities they're doing,
get inspired by.
But don't say, they did that, soI'm going to.
(13:35):
Because you have to drive yourown marketing plan.
When it comes to marketing, I'msure you see a lot.
What is a popular effort ortactic that's just not working
anymore?
Terry (13:52):
Oh, it's not working anymore.
I don't know.
I think all the differentefforts will work if you get in
the right place at the righttime with the right stuff.
I don't know that a lot ofthings aren't working, but the
key I think is to be trying andpossibly failing and then trying
something else.
Even the chicken Soup for theSoul authors that have sold to a
(14:16):
bazillion books, people forgetthat those guys were rejected
over 160 times before theyfinally found the publisher in
Florida.
And they told their publisher,once they found them that they
were gonna sell a million booksin the first year.
And their publisher laughed atthem because they'd never sold a
million copies, anything at thatpoint.
(14:36):
They thought that was aridiculous idea.
Well, it took'em a year and ahalf, Allison to sell their
first million books.
When I heard them speak, theytalk about how they follow what
they call the rule of five.
They got up every day and theydid five things to be telling
people about their book.
They did a podcast, a radioshow, a guest blog post, a
(14:59):
magazine article, a newspaperarticle.
There are dozens of things thateach of us can do to be telling
people about our book, but theydid it over and over.
And that's one of the keys hereis to be consistent and
persistent no matter whathappens.
Allison (15:15):
Oh, consistent and persistent.
I like it.
I think things have changed too.
I agree that there's not oneactivity that works or doesn't
work.
I think what doesn't work ischoosing one tactic and only
doing that, or I'm only gonna dobookstore.
(15:38):
People think, maybe in a landfar away bookstore tour was it.
Now, when you go to a new city,maybe you visit a bookstore, but
maybe you partner with abookstore to provide books to an
event that you're having at acommunity center.
(15:58):
Because the bookstore haslimited space.
So, these opportunities areevolving and maybe before a
bookstore did have space.
But bookstores are gettingsmaller and they're not
necessarily set up even likeacoustically for a talk, for a
(16:19):
visit.
So, I think while it's stillworking, all of these things are
evolving and they're up to you.
That's what I see.
And I think that gives people alot of flexibility, which is
good.
Terry (16:36):
Yeah.
No, I agree.
And you said when you introducedme here, I've been doing this
for a very long time.
And it was actually my wake upmoment, Allison happened in
2007.
I was running my little literaryagency in Scottsdale, Arizona.
And Mark Victor Hansen, theco-author on Chicken Soup for
the Soul, invited me to come outto Los Angeles for mega book
(16:57):
Marketing University.
They were having this event withover 400 people there.
And so, I took pitches frompeople during that event.
But I also sat there and Ilistened to all the different
speakers.
Now, at that point in my life,I'd written about 50 books for
traditional publishers.
Allison (17:14):
Sure.
Terry (17:15):
Publishers were paying me advances.
They were putting pretty booksin the bookstore.
All kinds of things like thatwere happening for me.
When you write a book for atraditional publisher, once a
year or maybe quarterly, theywill send you a financial
statement about how your booksare doing out there.
I was getting my statement andall of my statements were in the
(17:36):
minus category.
They weren't earning back, theyweren't earning, they weren't
selling.
And so, as I sat there andlistened to all these speakers.
About halfway through, it wasalmost like I woke up from being
asleep because I realized howlittle I was personally doing to
sell my own books back then.
(17:56):
Sure.
I had a terrywhalin.com website,but I was doing almost nothing
else in that area.
So, one of the speakers at thisconference was Jack Canfield,
the other co-author on ChickenSoup for the Soul.
And Jack Canfield's book calledThe Success Principles that I
have on my shelf up here.
Now, that very first successprinciple says that I will take
(18:18):
a hundred percent responsibilityfor my own success.
Now, none of us want to take ahundred percent responsibility.
We want somebody else to do it.
Want some publisher, publicist,marketing person, please,
somebody other than us.
But I decided during this event,I was gonna take a hundred
percent responsibility for myown success.
So, I started blogging back inthe early days of the blogging,
(18:42):
and I'm still blogging.
Every week, I have over 1700entries in my blog at this
point.
And I have this thing thatsearches for my name out there
online.
And about a year ago, I foundthis article of the top 27
content producers out there,Seth Godin, Ryan Holiday, people
(19:03):
like that.
And my name was among those 27people.
Now, they say there's over 600million blogs out there.
There's a lot of blogs.
But it's not that I'm doinganything fancy or I'm just doing
consistently.
Every week, I write a blogarticle and I put it out there,
and people read that.
And so, that kind of consistencyis really what can pay off for
(19:26):
you.
And anybody can start doingthat.
Start today, start tomorrow.
Allison (19:30):
And be committed to it.
Like you said, persistent.
Yeah.
When it comes to what authorscan expect though, because a lot
of people think I'm gonna writethis book and it's gonna sell
and it's gonna make me money.
You and I talked the last timewe talked about how the book is
(19:52):
really, very few people makemoney on just the book'cause
that's not the end.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that and how authors can
use their book to fuel theirnext steps?
Terry (20:07):
Oh yeah.
I mean, that's the very firstmyth, for example, is that I
will make a lot of money.
Every author figures that, justlike the Kevin Costner Field of
Dreams movie, that if they buildit, they will come,
Allison (20:19):
yeah.
Terry (20:19):
They think.
But that's not really true.
And so, it's really hard.
I tell people that making booksis easy selling books.
Now, that's another story.
And they say statistically, evenwith the self-published books,
there are over 11,000 new booksthat come out every day.
So there's a lot of competitionin this whole area out there.
(20:40):
But we, as authors have tounderstand that your book is a
great door opener.
It shows that you're anauthority in the area.
You can get speaking gigs, youcan get on podcasts, you can get
on radio shows, get on tv.
There's all different kinds ofthings, but there's cautions on
all this.
I mean, I've had authors thathave been like on Dr.
(21:02):
Oz with supposedly about theirbook.
They talked about theirsituation that was in their
book.
But these particular authors, itwas like they didn't even have a
book when they were on.
Dr.
Oz didn't mention it.
They didn't promote it.
They didn't do anything.
So, there's some actions thatevery author has to do when they
(21:23):
get talking about their book.
10 publishing myths that we'retalking about, for example.
I've created a website.
If people go topublishingoffer.com, if you're
listening to this, just thinkabout publishing offer.com.
You can see where you can getthis book from me for only$10,
including over$200 worth ofbonuses, and that includes the
(21:45):
shipping.
I'll pack it up and ship it toyou.
I try to make it easy for peopleto get the book.
But I have to say thatinformation just like if you're
on Dr.
Oz's show, you have to weavethat into your conversation.
That's called media trainingfolks, so that you actually say
about your book while you'retalking.
Allison (22:05):
No one is curating everything you do.
And a lot of people think I putit on social.
Social platforms only show yourpost to fewer than 3% of the
people who are already evenconnected to you, and those are
the people who want to see yourpost.
They're not even shown yourpost.
(22:27):
So, social media is not like askywriter.
Like not everybody's gonna seethat.
You do have to curate yourcontent and show people.
I learned that too when I firststarted this podcast.
I didn't include it in my socialprofiles.
Like why Allison?
(22:48):
That's kazoo.
I help people pitch their books,find the right publisher, launch
their books with my bestsellerLaunch School.
And I have this podcast whichallows me to share all these
methods and invite experts likeyou on, so that we're all
(23:11):
helping people and we're makingit so much easier for people to
find the information that theyneed in a trusted, easy to
digest way that they can listento while they're folding
clothes, or picking kids up fromcarpool.
Or nobody's sitting in a cabinin the woods saying, I just need
(23:33):
to sit in this cave while Iwrite my book.
Life it keeps going.
Terry (23:36):
It does and social media's important, don't get me
wrong.
Allison (23:39):
Oh, yeah.
Terry (23:40):
Is important.
They've pretty much proven thatsomebody has to hear about your
book 7, 8, 9, 12 times beforethey actually pick.
Decide to buy that book.
So that exposure is veryimportant.
As publishers, we're alwaysinterested in what your numbers
are and where you're connectedand all that kind of thing.
But when you connect, I alwaysencourage people, don't just
(24:03):
say, buy my book or somethinglike that.
The key is focus on the benefitsof your book.
Why should somebody your book?
What are those benefits thatthey're gonna get out of reading
your book?
You gotta be wise about this,but you mentioned book reviews.
I mean, a travesty, I go buypeople's websites and their book
(24:24):
has been out for six months andthey don't have any book
reviews.
The American psychologist,Robert Cialdini said the other
day that he wrote this bookcalled Influence.
It's a bestseller.
And he basically said thatthey've proven that 95% of the
people that buy a product onlinehave read a review about that
(24:48):
product before they buy thebook.
So, what does that say, if yougo by somebody's website and
they have no reviews or tworeviews or something like that's
not a good message.
So, you have to be proactivelydoing something about that as an
author.
Allison (25:07):
You have to feel comfortable and get over
yourself and ask for what youneed.
And don't ask, God, I hate itwhen people do this.
They say, if you would pleaseleave me an honest review
translation, please critique mybook.
That is not what we're askingfor.
That's for someone who buys yourbook and they are welcome to
(25:30):
leave you a blah, blah, blah,honest review.
But if you're approachingsomeone, they know that you're
asking for a marketing review.
This is not a surprise.
A marketing review is anendorsement of the work that
you're doing.
It's not, how good is thewriting on page 10 or in chapter
(25:52):
seven.
It's is this book something thatpeople who have a need or are
want more happiness or wannaimprove their relationship or
they wanna change jobs.
Is it something that thosepeople are looking for, they
(26:12):
need, and is this authortrusted?
That's the purpose of amarketing review.
Terry (26:17):
Yeah.
When you say marketing review, Iassume, at least it sounds like
to me, you're talking about anendorsement that's
Allison (26:23):
B blurbs, Yeah.
The jargony jargon is, yeah.
When you ask people for blurbs.
Terry (26:29):
Yes.
Allison (26:29):
Is an endorsement that's used for marketing.
You gotta stop saying, I'd loveit if you'd give this an honest
review.
Like freaking a ask for what youwant.
Can you endorse this or not?
You know, not, I love this book'cause that means nothing to the
reader, the book buyer.
But you've gotta ask people togive something that's useful to
(26:51):
you and the book.
Terry (26:52):
When you ask them, you have to make it easy for them to
say yes at the end of the day.
Because many people forget aboutthat.
I mean these people, thebestselling authors
particularly, are asked over andover to do this.
So, what I've learned is to makea short ask for one thing, but
(27:12):
also in your ask you can offerto send them a draft endorsement
if they don't have time.
Or you can even write a coupleof sentences and put their name
on it and say, Hey, would you bewilling to say this?
And often, they'll look at thatand change a couple words and
(27:32):
say, go with that.
You made it easy for them to sayyes, you know.
Allison (27:37):
Right.
You're not trying to give themhomework.
Here's my book, please read it,and give me an endorsement.
I agree entirely that no onewants a request that comes with
a task that they don't have timeto do right then and they won't
actually get to.
So, you do have to give them away to go down like drafted
(28:02):
sample endorsements.
And go, yeah, number four, thatfeels like it's serving the
audience or my readers or thepeople I serve.
That seems like it was writtendirectly for me.
And if you're smart, you knowwho you're gonna ask for
endorsements.
You should be writing draftsamples with them in mind,'cause
(28:26):
you know the things that they'reinterested in.
Terry (28:30):
Yeah.
But a lot of people don't eventhink to do that.
They wanna send the book andencourage that person to read
the book.
And they're simply not gonna dothat.
I've written forwards for JerryB.
Jenkins that was on this book,for example mark Victor Hansen
was wrote the Forward foranother one of my books.
Billy Graham, when he was alive,wrote the Forward for another
(28:50):
one of my books.
And the way we got thoseforwards is I wrote that
material for that person.
Sent it off to them and askedthem if they were okay with
that.
And so, I made it really easyfor them to read it and say, eh,
I don't think I'd say this'causeit's easier to fix something
(29:12):
that's already in motion than tocreate it from the scratch.
Allison (29:17):
Right.
From the blank page.
And you risk them positioninglike or giving you something
that's not what I would'vecalled out about the value of
this book.
Like they're not your marketingdirector, they could end up
giving you an endorsement thatis not what you've identified as
the benefit.
(29:38):
And that is also something weirdthat you might have to address.
And that kind of takes the funout of I got this great
endorsement.
Except I can't use it'cause itdoesn't, it's too vague or
that's not really thepositioning of the book.
So you do have to meet someone,and make it super easy for the
yes.
Terry (29:58):
Yeah.
And endorsements can lead toother things.
Alice Kreider, who's anacquisitions editor, when she
sent me back her endorsement formy 10 publishing miss book she
said, oh, Terry, you're missingthe 11th myth.
I'm like, okay I'll bite.
What's the 11th minute?
She said the 11th minute shouldbe that if I send my book to
Oprah Winfrey, she'll book me onher show.
(30:21):
And I'm like yeah, that's apretty good myth there.
I like that.
And so, what I decided to dowhen I was writing this book, I
decided to write that 11thchapter, which isn't in the
book, but we designed it to lookexactly like the book.
And people can get that 11thmyth for me for free, totally
free.
All you do is you go to terrylinks.com slash 11th myth one
(30:45):
one TH, myth, and that'll takeyou to the website.
Put your first name and youremail address in.
Then, you'll get this 11th mythfor me, totally free and
automatically on your email.
Allison (30:57):
I love that you're giving people so many resources
and I agree that when you arepromoting your book, I think the
myth.
This might be the 12th, but yourbook is not news, period.
Your book is if your positioningof, don't you wanna cover this
(31:18):
book?
No, your book is not news.
It's not something someone wantsto cover.
It has to be relevant.
It's your job to pitch a bookclub or an event or a journalist
with how your message servestheir audience.
(31:40):
Even if it's a podcaster.
Sometimes I get pitches forpeople who wanna be on the
podcast and it'll just say,coming out with a new book.
Wouldn't you like to interviewthem?
First of all, if you listen tothe podcast, you know that the
crux of marketing is to do thework and to consider the filter
(32:04):
like filter would be me fortheir audience.
So what does the audience need?
They don't need to be pitched abook.
Don't you wanna buy the book?
Nobody likes a hard sell.
But do they have a perspectivethat might help?
So, you do have to meet thatjournalist or the event planner
(32:26):
more than halfway, and thattakes empathy.
You've gotta consider, whatneeds did the audience have?
How can I greet them with thatso that what I'm offering checks
that box for them'cause they'rescanning emails.
Terry (32:42):
Yeah, no that's exactly right.
That we have to make the rightpitch.
And I always encourage authorswrite for magazines, print
magazines, online magazines.
I mean if your book sells athousand copies over the
lifetime of the book, that's agood number.
But in magazine writing it'svery easy to reach a hundred
(33:04):
thousand, 200,000, half amillion people with your
magazine article.
And at the end of your magazinearticle, you can say Author of
10 publishing myths and give youa little website there when you
do that.
Magazine writer, magazineeditors rather tell you what
they want because they have thisthing called guidelines of
telling you what they're lookingfor.
(33:26):
Google it.
You can find the guidelines,read the guidelines before you
make'em a pitch.
Many of these magazine articleswill take personal experience
stories.
All of us have strange personalexperiences in our life.
So if you write those up, have asolid beginning, middle, and
end, have a takeaway a point.
Get published in magazines.
(33:46):
That's one of the reasons thatAllison, over the years, I've
written for more than 50magazines.
I'm still writing for magazinesbecause that's a great way to
get your message out there as anauthor about your book, but also
just to reach out and get thereader in that effort.
Allison (34:04):
And the magazines, I'll just say this for people who
think like, well, you know, theyalready covered this, like Cost
covers.
You know the color palette ofthe season, women's rights every
year, mother's Day comes around.
These magazines are niche, theycover the same content and they
(34:30):
have an editorial calendar.
So, yes, their angle of a storymight change, dating advice or
career advice, but it's stillthere.
So, there's still room.
I used to, when I was leading PRfor the Body Shop and Bert SPEs
(34:50):
and Unilever, I used to meetwith magazine editors every
month, all of them.
So 50 or so magazines, and Iwould go to the Hearst Building
or the Conde Nast building andgo up and down the elevator
every 30 minutes for two orthree days.
(35:14):
Because I had a pitch for themthat fit into their editorial
calendar, that served a needthat they had.
And also, I didn't wanna givethem too much.
It's not their job to be like,here's my pitch for the all the
pitches for the year.
Give them just enough to sayyes.
(35:35):
And also be a helper.
If they need background, if theyneed access to an expert, it's
not always about what do youget?
But a journalist is doing a job.
Sometimes they just need help.
Sometimes they need a quote.
They don't want a buy my book.
(35:55):
They want to fill in an expertquote, which is also credibility
building for you that you canput on your website.
Which you've been in everymagazine.
I have been quoted many times inthe Wall Street Journal, the New
York Times, and that isauthority building.
(36:17):
But if you're not using theresult and leveraging it, then
you're not doing your job asyour best marketer.
Oh, sorry, I'm gonna get off mysoapbox, but I really want
authors to be in charge.
And let's pivot now that I'mdone, beating a drum.
(36:38):
Terry, you're such a big reader.
Can you tell me one of yourfavorite books that you told me
it before, but I want you to, ifyou don't remember, I'll tell
you'cause you sent this to mebefore.
Terry (36:52):
I think it was probably the professor and the madman.
Allison (36:55):
Yes.
Terry (36:56):
A book that I was actually in a session in New
York where we talked about thisbook being a bestselling book.
And I have a signed copy by theauthor Simon Winchester, as well
as his agent, his publicist.
They all signed the front of mybook by the way.
This is a, a little known storyreally about the making of the
(37:20):
Oxford English Dictionary, thelargest dictionary in the
English language.
When they made that dictionary,one of the people that was the
greatest contributor to thatdictionary never showed up at
the meetings.
Professor Murray couldn't figureout why this guy never came to
their meetings.
He found him actually in theBroadmoor Asylum in England.
(37:44):
He was locked up in a cell thatwas there.
He had been a Confederate, or,no, he was a union soldier.
And was a surgeon and actuallymade him as a doctor for people
that deserted to heat up abranding iron and brand people's
cheek with a letter D, which isa horrible thing.
(38:07):
So, the fact that he had to dothis as a doctor just drove him
crazy.
And so he was out in London,stumbling in the streets and
imagined somebody and pulled outa gun and shot them and killed
them.
That's why they locked him up inthis asylum for the rest of his
life.
But he was still getting astipend from the US Military.
(38:27):
And so, this guy bought books,so he had his whole cell lined
with books and so he was one ofthe greatest contributors to the
making of the Oxford EnglishDictionary.
It's a fascinating book, and it
Allison (38:39):
I loved that book.
I loved it.
I remember reading it, thinkinglike, wow.
Alright, Terry, let's bring ithome.
Let's hear one tip that everyonecan do today to get their book
in the world.
I
Terry (38:58):
guess the biggest tip that I would give you is to not
just be soaking in knowledge andactively reading about different
things that you can do, but takeaction.
I guess at the end of the day todo something, to be telling
people about your book.
Maybe it's a little video youput on TikTok.
Maybe it's a podcast that youpitch.
Maybe it's a radio interviewthat you pitch, a magazine, a
(39:22):
query letter that you write.
There's dozens of things thatyou can do, but don't just read
about them.
Actively, do something today.
Allison (39:31):
You heard it here, it's time to take action.
We're here giving you all thegoods.
And I know that you're incarpool or you're sitting in a
parking lot waiting for yourdaughter to get out of
basketball practice.
That's just me several times aweek.
But you do have to pick up apen, or put together your pitch,
(39:54):
or join a writer's community, orlearn how to market your book.
You could join my bestsellerlaunch school and get every
thing all the tools, all thetemplates, all the best
practices so that it's easy.
But whatever you don't lament,don't do it alone because we're
(40:17):
better when we're together.
Writing is solitary.
Being a writer, it's better whenyou're part of a community cause
we're here to help each other.
I want to thank you, Terry, somuch for being here.
And thank you for listening, forshowing up for yourself, for
(40:38):
sharing this podcast and thisepisode with someone you know
needs it.
They're not gonna find it unlessyou send it to them.
So stop and just forward it.
Send them a text.
You need to listen to this.
Terry's brilliant.
Allison is so fun.
She really knows her poo.
Whatever you do, take action.
(41:00):
Share what you know, and ask forwhat you need.
That's your job.
That's my challenge to you.
And if you have a question youwanna send to me in the show
notes.
Click the button, send me aquestion.
It'll say, send me a text andthen you can send me a text and
I get it right away.
It's magic.
(41:21):
Alright, I'll see you next week.
Terry (41:23):
Thank you.
When you connect, I always encourage people, don't
(00:02):
just say, buy my book orsomething like that.
I mean, the key is focus on thebenefits of your book.
Why should somebody your book?
What are those benefits thatthey're gonna get out of reading
your book?
Allison (00:40):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge.
This is marketing for thepublishing world.
I'm Allison Lane.
I'm your literary chaperone,your Sherpa, book coach
marketer, lifelong publicist.
That's a story I'll tell youanother day.
I'm here to help you write thebook.
You know you're meant to writeand actually launch it, so it
(01:04):
sells.
We're here because yourpublishing path should be
exciting.
It should be fun.
It should not be an adventurewhere you're lost in the woods
because it should freaking work.
You should know where you'regoing.
There should be no guessinggames, and no big fat surprises,
(01:25):
and certainly the overwhelm.
I just don't want it for you.
So, this is real talk that movesthe needle for you, and that's
why I bring in experts fromthroughout the industry and
beyond because marketing and thebest of marketing comes from
everywhere.
(01:46):
Not just publishing, not justfrom one industry.
So, that's what we're bringinghere.
Today, we are tackling a topicthat trips up even the smartest
of authors, even people who thisis their life.
We're talking aboutexpectations.
Expectations because now you sayyou've written the book.
(02:07):
Now what?
Now what are you supposed to do?
What does your publisher do?
How do you make sure your booksells once it's out?
How do you get reviews and ravereviews?
How do you pitch media or getmedia buzz?
And if you want all thosethings, but you don't know how
to get them, you are travelingwithout a strategy.
(02:30):
Strategy is marketing jargon fora plan, okay?
So that all these, marketingglossary words, it just means
you don't know where you'regoing, so you don't know how to
get there.
But joining me today is TerryWhalin.
He's an editor and an author ofdozens of books, over 60 books,
(02:53):
so that I just stopped counting.
Former literary agent andacquisitions editor at Morgan
James Publishing.
He has seen it all and he's hereto help you steer clear of big.
Myths and pitfalls so you have aclear view of where you're
(03:14):
going.
So, let's jump in.
Terry, thank you so much forbeing here and for being so
patient with me for my techmishap.
We had recorded this a month agoand then I had to come back to
you and say something was weirdwith the tech, which is not a
shock to people who know me.
Terry (03:35):
I'm glad to be here, Allison, and look forward to
this.
Absolutely.
Allison (03:39):
Let's jump in'cause I know that most people are not
full-time author, if they were,they'd be an expert in
publishing, right?
Or maybe not, maybe they'd justbe an expert in their field and
they happen to write books.
So, what I see happening is thatpeople jump in and they either
get overwhelmed'cause they feellike they need to know
(04:01):
everything, or they haveexpectations that are based on
somebody else's experience orwhat they've seen in movie.
And they're sure they know, butthey really don't.
So, that means that they'remaking mistakes or running into
troubles that you're here toclear up.
(04:21):
So, what's a mistake peoplemaking when it comes to setting
expectations for their book?
Terry (04:28):
There's all kinds of them and that's why I've written this
book 10 Publishing Myths
Allison (04:33):
Yep, I have it here.
Thank you.
Terry (04:35):
But yeah.
I find that authors often havethe wrong expectation.
For example, one of the myths isthat my publisher will market
and sell my book.
Now, that's a true statement.
Your publisher, however youpublish, is invests in your book
and once you to succeed.
But the reality is our interestand our passion for the book is
(05:00):
divided.
At Morgan James, we publishclose to 200 books a year, so we
have a lot going on at thepublishing house.
And I like to remind authorsthat they're the ones that have
the greatest passion, greatestconcern about their book.
So, they need to take thatpassion and really fuel that
into their everyday actions.
(05:22):
So they're doing something totell people about their book out
there.
Allison (05:27):
I think that you hit on something too, and I just, I
wanna illuminate when we say,you know what, publisher will
market your book.
Marketing is everything frompromotion to website development
(05:48):
to events and speakingpublicity.
Which is earned social media,digital media advertising,
digital ads just every activity,every effort under marketing.
So that's like saying somebodyelse is in charge of everything.
(06:09):
And it's not true.
It's'cause the publisher is notgoing to pitch you to keynote at
a conference.
They are not your marketingdirector.
You are your marketing director,welcome to you.
Let me introduce you to you,your in charge of your own
marketing.
(06:29):
And then, the book can certainlybe a door opener.
A book will certainly give yousomething to tout in your bio,
especially when you pitch.
Hey, I'd like to speak on thispanel, and I'm the author of 10
publishing Myths.
This is credibility that'spackaged and pocket size, right?
(06:53):
But it is just one way thatpeople can get your genius.
You are here on my podcast.
That's another way that you'remarketing your book.
Terry (07:05):
Yeah, that's absolutely right.
Allison and I like what DavidHancock, our founder often says.
He says, no publisher doesenough.
He just throws that out there.
But then he also says, we domore than most publishers and I
really do believe that's true.
We're still coaching, helpingauthors that came to us in 2005.
It's pretty unusual, but we'rein it for the long haul to help
(07:28):
you sell books.
We've actually started this,like an open coaching session on
Tuesdays that authors can get oncall like this.
They can all see each other andthey can ask their questions.
I think that's great that's oneof the things that we're doing
just to help our authors.
We also have a private Facebookgroup for our authors.
They're all interacting witheach other, going to each
(07:49):
other's events publishers wouldnever put all their authors into
a private Facebook.
Allison (07:54):
They really do not.
Terry (07:55):
They don't want them to be interacting with each other.
As a group of authors, we'restronger if we cooperate with
each other rather than compete.
So it's just a differentphilosophy.
We have over 1400 authors thatare in our private Facebook
group.
That's an amazing place just togo over there.
Allison (08:12):
Yeah.
Terry (08:13):
See what other people are doing, ask questions, get ideas.
That's a gold mine over there.
Allison (08:20):
I wanna point out too, my observation here is that
'cause you did say that you haveauthors who are still working
with you from 2005.
Is that what you said?
Terry (08:32):
That's right.
Long ways back.
Allison (08:34):
Long ways back.
So, that kind of longevity istremendous, that long-term
relationship.
And also the landscape evolves,opportunities evolve, the world
evolves.
Your book is new to the personwho finds it today, and maybe
you have something else to say.
So, I love that you're talkingabout, authors stick around and
(08:56):
they help each other becauseafter launch day is one day,
it's like a birthday party.
Ta-da blow out the candles.
But that's just the start.
You continue.
Terry (09:09):
And your connection to other people and to the market
is very important.
Do a few picture books, forexample at Morgan James, we
don't do a lot, but we do a fewpicture books, maybe 10, 15 a
year.
And the other day David wastelling me about this picture
book that we'd sold 10,000copies of it during December
(09:29):
last year.
Now, if you know a thing at all
Allison (09:32):
Wow.
Terry (09:32):
about the book market to sell couple hundred picture
books during the lifetime ofyour book that's cool.
But to sell 10,000, that'sunusual.
So, I said, how in the world didthe author do that?
it turns out this picture bookhas a connection to the United
States military and ithighlights all the different
branches of the service.
(09:54):
And this author had a connectionto the Navy.
And she told us about thatconnection and then used that
connection to get the book intoevery commissary in the world
about Christmas time.
And so you can imagine parentswent in there, they saw this
cute little book, and theybought it.
(10:15):
So, that's how those 10,000copies happen.
Allison (10:18):
But that happened because the author introduced
that conversation to you, right?
It wasn't you saying, okay,let's see how we're going to
improve distribution.
Can you tell us what the book isand I'll make sure that the link
is in the show notes.
Terry (10:36):
Book is, and I think it's called Kenny has a bright red
scooter or something like that'sthe name of it.
But and you a retired militaryguy that rides around his
scooter and is interested inother veterans and that kind of
thing.
I guess the reason I told thatis it all begins with an active
author that understands thatthey have to do something the
(10:58):
book to sell.
Now, we have the connections toget the book out there into
these commissaries, all over theworld.
But the author has to sort ofdrive that passion.
Allison (11:09):
Okay, so this is the book is Kenny's Bright Red
Scooter by Amanda Klein andJulie Bourne is the illustrator.
So, I'm gonna make sure thatthis is in the show notes
because this is, it's actually atrue story of a senior citizen
Navy veteran who accidentally,but not surprisingly, captures
(11:33):
the hearts of people around theworld on TikTok.
How charming.
Okay.
Awesome.
I think that's such a goodexample of an author being their
marketing director and thenincluding the publisher in that
opportunity.
I'm sure you guys were happy tofigure out.
(11:55):
Okay, how are we gonna managethis now that we know there's an
opportunity, but it's not yourjob to figure it out.
Which goes back to what I wantpeople to know is it's up to you
to find that path and to includeyour publisher, or your digital
marketer, or your ads person oryour publicist.
(12:18):
none of them do everything andnone of them have access to
everything else you're doing.
So, you are the hub as theauthor.
Terry (12:28):
Yeah, that's right.
And I mean, the crazy thingabout the book business is that
there's not just a 1, 2, 3formula.
Each of us are on this journeyand we have to figure out where
do we find that right connectionfor us to get published, and
then also to market the book.
It takes who you know as much aswhat you know at the end of the
(12:48):
day.
And that's an ongoing processfor all of us to try to figure
that out.
Allison (12:53):
Yeah.
I do think that a lot of times,now that people are hearing
this, they're like, maybe I knowsomebody at the Navy and maybe I
can get into the commissaries.
What I want to point out is whatworks for one author and one
book is not necessarily rightfor you.
It's like saying, I like thosepants.
(13:13):
Do you want my pants or do youwant pants that fit you, that
are inspired by the pants thatI'm wearing?
So, we need to make sure thatauthors are paying attention to
what other authors are doingwhat activities they're doing,
get inspired by.
But don't say, they did that, soI'm going to.
(13:35):
Because you have to drive yourown marketing plan.
When it comes to marketing, I'msure you see a lot.
What is a popular effort ortactic that's just not working
anymore?
Terry (13:52):
Oh, it's not working anymore.
I don't know.
I think all the differentefforts will work if you get in
the right place at the righttime with the right stuff.
I don't know that a lot ofthings aren't working, but the
key I think is to be trying andpossibly failing and then trying
something else.
Even the chicken Soup for theSoul authors that have sold to a
(14:16):
bazillion books, people forgetthat those guys were rejected
over 160 times before theyfinally found the publisher in
Florida.
And they told their publisher,once they found them that they
were gonna sell a million booksin the first year.
And their publisher laughed atthem because they'd never sold a
million copies, anything at thatpoint.
(14:36):
They thought that was aridiculous idea.
Well, it took'em a year and ahalf, Allison to sell their
first million books.
When I heard them speak, theytalk about how they follow what
they call the rule of five.
They got up every day and theydid five things to be telling
people about their book.
They did a podcast, a radioshow, a guest blog post, a
(14:59):
magazine article, a newspaperarticle.
There are dozens of things thateach of us can do to be telling
people about our book, but theydid it over and over.
And that's one of the keys hereis to be consistent and
persistent no matter whathappens.
Allison (15:15):
Oh, consistent and persistent.
I like it.
I think things have changed too.
I agree that there's not oneactivity that works or doesn't
work.
I think what doesn't work ischoosing one tactic and only
doing that, or I'm only gonna dobookstore.
(15:38):
People think, maybe in a landfar away bookstore tour was it.
Now, when you go to a new city,maybe you visit a bookstore, but
maybe you partner with abookstore to provide books to an
event that you're having at acommunity center.
(15:58):
Because the bookstore haslimited space.
So, these opportunities areevolving and maybe before a
bookstore did have space.
But bookstores are gettingsmaller and they're not
necessarily set up even likeacoustically for a talk, for a
(16:19):
visit.
So, I think while it's stillworking, all of these things are
evolving and they're up to you.
That's what I see.
And I think that gives people alot of flexibility, which is
good.
Terry (16:36):
Yeah.
No, I agree.
And you said when you introducedme here, I've been doing this
for a very long time.
And it was actually my wake upmoment, Allison happened in
2007.
I was running my little literaryagency in Scottsdale, Arizona.
And Mark Victor Hansen, theco-author on Chicken Soup for
the Soul, invited me to come outto Los Angeles for mega book
(16:57):
Marketing University.
They were having this event withover 400 people there.
And so, I took pitches frompeople during that event.
But I also sat there and Ilistened to all the different
speakers.
Now, at that point in my life,I'd written about 50 books for
traditional publishers.
Allison (17:14):
Sure.
Terry (17:15):
Publishers were paying me advances.
They were putting pretty booksin the bookstore.
All kinds of things like thatwere happening for me.
When you write a book for atraditional publisher, once a
year or maybe quarterly, theywill send you a financial
statement about how your booksare doing out there.
I was getting my statement andall of my statements were in the
(17:36):
minus category.
They weren't earning back, theyweren't earning, they weren't
selling.
And so, as I sat there andlistened to all these speakers.
About halfway through, it wasalmost like I woke up from being
asleep because I realized howlittle I was personally doing to
sell my own books back then.
(17:56):
Sure.
I had a terrywhalin.com website,but I was doing almost nothing
else in that area.
So, one of the speakers at thisconference was Jack Canfield,
the other co-author on ChickenSoup for the Soul.
And Jack Canfield's book calledThe Success Principles that I
have on my shelf up here.
Now, that very first successprinciple says that I will take
(18:18):
a hundred percent responsibilityfor my own success.
Now, none of us want to take ahundred percent responsibility.
We want somebody else to do it.
Want some publisher, publicist,marketing person, please,
somebody other than us.
But I decided during this event,I was gonna take a hundred
percent responsibility for myown success.
So, I started blogging back inthe early days of the blogging,
(18:42):
and I'm still blogging.
Every week, I have over 1700entries in my blog at this
point.
And I have this thing thatsearches for my name out there
online.
And about a year ago, I foundthis article of the top 27
content producers out there,Seth Godin, Ryan Holiday, people
(19:03):
like that.
And my name was among those 27people.
Now, they say there's over 600million blogs out there.
There's a lot of blogs.
But it's not that I'm doinganything fancy or I'm just doing
consistently.
Every week, I write a blogarticle and I put it out there,
and people read that.
And so, that kind of consistencyis really what can pay off for
(19:26):
you.
And anybody can start doingthat.
Start today, start tomorrow.
Allison (19:30):
And be committed to it.
Like you said, persistent.
Yeah.
When it comes to what authorscan expect though, because a lot
of people think I'm gonna writethis book and it's gonna sell
and it's gonna make me money.
You and I talked the last timewe talked about how the book is
(19:52):
really, very few people makemoney on just the book'cause
that's not the end.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that and how authors can
use their book to fuel theirnext steps?
Terry (20:07):
Oh yeah.
I mean, that's the very firstmyth, for example, is that I
will make a lot of money.
Every author figures that, justlike the Kevin Costner Field of
Dreams movie, that if they buildit, they will come,
Allison (20:19):
yeah.
Terry (20:19):
They think.
But that's not really true.
And so, it's really hard.
I tell people that making booksis easy selling books.
Now, that's another story.
And they say statistically, evenwith the self-published books,
there are over 11,000 new booksthat come out every day.
So there's a lot of competitionin this whole area out there.
(20:40):
But we, as authors have tounderstand that your book is a
great door opener.
It shows that you're anauthority in the area.
You can get speaking gigs, youcan get on podcasts, you can get
on radio shows, get on tv.
There's all different kinds ofthings, but there's cautions on
all this.
I mean, I've had authors thathave been like on Dr.
(21:02):
Oz with supposedly about theirbook.
They talked about theirsituation that was in their
book.
But these particular authors, itwas like they didn't even have a
book when they were on.
Dr.
Oz didn't mention it.
They didn't promote it.
They didn't do anything.
So, there's some actions thatevery author has to do when they
(21:23):
get talking about their book.
10 publishing myths that we'retalking about, for example.
I've created a website.
If people go topublishingoffer.com, if you're
listening to this, just thinkabout publishing offer.com.
You can see where you can getthis book from me for only$10,
including over$200 worth ofbonuses, and that includes the
(21:45):
shipping.
I'll pack it up and ship it toyou.
I try to make it easy for peopleto get the book.
But I have to say thatinformation just like if you're
on Dr.
Oz's show, you have to weavethat into your conversation.
That's called media trainingfolks, so that you actually say
about your book while you'retalking.
Allison (22:05):
No one is curating everything you do.
And a lot of people think I putit on social.
Social platforms only show yourpost to fewer than 3% of the
people who are already evenconnected to you, and those are
the people who want to see yourpost.
They're not even shown yourpost.
(22:27):
So, social media is not like askywriter.
Like not everybody's gonna seethat.
You do have to curate yourcontent and show people.
I learned that too when I firststarted this podcast.
I didn't include it in my socialprofiles.
Like why Allison?
(22:48):
That's kazoo.
I help people pitch their books,find the right publisher, launch
their books with my bestsellerLaunch School.
And I have this podcast whichallows me to share all these
methods and invite experts likeyou on, so that we're all
(23:11):
helping people and we're makingit so much easier for people to
find the information that theyneed in a trusted, easy to
digest way that they can listento while they're folding
clothes, or picking kids up fromcarpool.
Or nobody's sitting in a cabinin the woods saying, I just need
(23:33):
to sit in this cave while Iwrite my book.
Life it keeps going.
Terry (23:36):
It does and social media's important, don't get me
wrong.
Allison (23:39):
Oh, yeah.
Terry (23:40):
Is important.
They've pretty much proven thatsomebody has to hear about your
book 7, 8, 9, 12 times beforethey actually pick.
Decide to buy that book.
So that exposure is veryimportant.
As publishers, we're alwaysinterested in what your numbers
are and where you're connectedand all that kind of thing.
But when you connect, I alwaysencourage people, don't just
(24:03):
say, buy my book or somethinglike that.
The key is focus on the benefitsof your book.
Why should somebody your book?
What are those benefits thatthey're gonna get out of reading
your book?
You gotta be wise about this,but you mentioned book reviews.
I mean, a travesty, I go buypeople's websites and their book
(24:24):
has been out for six months andthey don't have any book
reviews.
The American psychologist,Robert Cialdini said the other
day that he wrote this bookcalled Influence.
It's a bestseller.
And he basically said thatthey've proven that 95% of the
people that buy a product onlinehave read a review about that
(24:48):
product before they buy thebook.
So, what does that say, if yougo by somebody's website and
they have no reviews or tworeviews or something like that's
not a good message.
So, you have to be proactivelydoing something about that as an
author.
Allison (25:07):
You have to feel comfortable and get over
yourself and ask for what youneed.
And don't ask, God, I hate itwhen people do this.
They say, if you would pleaseleave me an honest review
translation, please critique mybook.
That is not what we're askingfor.
That's for someone who buys yourbook and they are welcome to
(25:30):
leave you a blah, blah, blah,honest review.
But if you're approachingsomeone, they know that you're
asking for a marketing review.
This is not a surprise.
A marketing review is anendorsement of the work that
you're doing.
It's not, how good is thewriting on page 10 or in chapter
(25:52):
seven.
It's is this book something thatpeople who have a need or are
want more happiness or wannaimprove their relationship or
they wanna change jobs.
Is it something that thosepeople are looking for, they
(26:12):
need, and is this authortrusted?
That's the purpose of amarketing review.
Terry (26:17):
Yeah.
When you say marketing review, Iassume, at least it sounds like
to me, you're talking about anendorsement that's
Allison (26:23):
B blurbs, Yeah.
The jargony jargon is, yeah.
When you ask people for blurbs.
Terry (26:29):
Yes.
Allison (26:29):
Is an endorsement that's used for marketing.
You gotta stop saying, I'd loveit if you'd give this an honest
review.
Like freaking a ask for what youwant.
Can you endorse this or not?
You know, not, I love this book'cause that means nothing to the
reader, the book buyer.
But you've gotta ask people togive something that's useful to
(26:51):
you and the book.
Terry (26:52):
When you ask them, you have to make it easy for them to
say yes at the end of the day.
Because many people forget aboutthat.
I mean these people, thebestselling authors
particularly, are asked over andover to do this.
So, what I've learned is to makea short ask for one thing, but
(27:12):
also in your ask you can offerto send them a draft endorsement
if they don't have time.
Or you can even write a coupleof sentences and put their name
on it and say, Hey, would you bewilling to say this?
And often, they'll look at thatand change a couple words and
(27:32):
say, go with that.
You made it easy for them to sayyes, you know.
Allison (27:37):
Right.
You're not trying to give themhomework.
Here's my book, please read it,and give me an endorsement.
I agree entirely that no onewants a request that comes with
a task that they don't have timeto do right then and they won't
actually get to.
So, you do have to give them away to go down like drafted
(28:02):
sample endorsements.
And go, yeah, number four, thatfeels like it's serving the
audience or my readers or thepeople I serve.
That seems like it was writtendirectly for me.
And if you're smart, you knowwho you're gonna ask for
endorsements.
You should be writing draftsamples with them in mind,'cause
(28:26):
you know the things that they'reinterested in.
Terry (28:30):
Yeah.
But a lot of people don't eventhink to do that.
They wanna send the book andencourage that person to read
the book.
And they're simply not gonna dothat.
I've written forwards for JerryB.
Jenkins that was on this book,for example mark Victor Hansen
was wrote the Forward foranother one of my books.
Billy Graham, when he was alive,wrote the Forward for another
(28:50):
one of my books.
And the way we got thoseforwards is I wrote that
material for that person.
Sent it off to them and askedthem if they were okay with
that.
And so, I made it really easyfor them to read it and say, eh,
I don't think I'd say this'causeit's easier to fix something
(29:12):
that's already in motion than tocreate it from the scratch.
Allison (29:17):
Right.
From the blank page.
And you risk them positioninglike or giving you something
that's not what I would'vecalled out about the value of
this book.
Like they're not your marketingdirector, they could end up
giving you an endorsement thatis not what you've identified as
the benefit.
(29:38):
And that is also something weirdthat you might have to address.
And that kind of takes the funout of I got this great
endorsement.
Except I can't use it'cause itdoesn't, it's too vague or
that's not really thepositioning of the book.
So you do have to meet someone,and make it super easy for the
yes.
Terry (29:58):
Yeah.
And endorsements can lead toother things.
Alice Kreider, who's anacquisitions editor, when she
sent me back her endorsement formy 10 publishing miss book she
said, oh, Terry, you're missingthe 11th myth.
I'm like, okay I'll bite.
What's the 11th minute?
She said the 11th minute shouldbe that if I send my book to
Oprah Winfrey, she'll book me onher show.
(30:21):
And I'm like yeah, that's apretty good myth there.
I like that.
And so, what I decided to dowhen I was writing this book, I
decided to write that 11thchapter, which isn't in the
book, but we designed it to lookexactly like the book.
And people can get that 11thmyth for me for free, totally
free.
All you do is you go to terrylinks.com slash 11th myth one
(30:45):
one TH, myth, and that'll takeyou to the website.
Put your first name and youremail address in.
Then, you'll get this 11th mythfor me, totally free and
automatically on your email.
Allison (30:57):
I love that you're giving people so many resources
and I agree that when you arepromoting your book, I think the
myth.
This might be the 12th, but yourbook is not news, period.
Your book is if your positioningof, don't you wanna cover this
(31:18):
book?
No, your book is not news.
It's not something someone wantsto cover.
It has to be relevant.
It's your job to pitch a bookclub or an event or a journalist
with how your message servestheir audience.
(31:40):
Even if it's a podcaster.
Sometimes I get pitches forpeople who wanna be on the
podcast and it'll just say,coming out with a new book.
Wouldn't you like to interviewthem?
First of all, if you listen tothe podcast, you know that the
crux of marketing is to do thework and to consider the filter
(32:04):
like filter would be me fortheir audience.
So what does the audience need?
They don't need to be pitched abook.
Don't you wanna buy the book?
Nobody likes a hard sell.
But do they have a perspectivethat might help?
So, you do have to meet thatjournalist or the event planner
(32:26):
more than halfway, and thattakes empathy.
You've gotta consider, whatneeds did the audience have?
How can I greet them with thatso that what I'm offering checks
that box for them'cause they'rescanning emails.
Terry (32:42):
Yeah, no that's exactly right.
That we have to make the rightpitch.
And I always encourage authorswrite for magazines, print
magazines, online magazines.
I mean if your book sells athousand copies over the
lifetime of the book, that's agood number.
But in magazine writing it'svery easy to reach a hundred
(33:04):
thousand, 200,000, half amillion people with your
magazine article.
And at the end of your magazinearticle, you can say Author of
10 publishing myths and give youa little website there when you
do that.
Magazine writer, magazineeditors rather tell you what
they want because they have thisthing called guidelines of
telling you what they're lookingfor.
(33:26):
Google it.
You can find the guidelines,read the guidelines before you
make'em a pitch.
Many of these magazine articleswill take personal experience
stories.
All of us have strange personalexperiences in our life.
So if you write those up, have asolid beginning, middle, and
end, have a takeaway a point.
Get published in magazines.
(33:46):
That's one of the reasons thatAllison, over the years, I've
written for more than 50magazines.
I'm still writing for magazinesbecause that's a great way to
get your message out there as anauthor about your book, but also
just to reach out and get thereader in that effort.
Allison (34:04):
And the magazines, I'll just say this for people who
think like, well, you know, theyalready covered this, like Cost
covers.
You know the color palette ofthe season, women's rights every
year, mother's Day comes around.
These magazines are niche, theycover the same content and they
(34:30):
have an editorial calendar.
So, yes, their angle of a storymight change, dating advice or
career advice, but it's stillthere.
So, there's still room.
I used to, when I was leading PRfor the Body Shop and Bert SPEs
(34:50):
and Unilever, I used to meetwith magazine editors every
month, all of them.
So 50 or so magazines, and Iwould go to the Hearst Building
or the Conde Nast building andgo up and down the elevator
every 30 minutes for two orthree days.
(35:14):
Because I had a pitch for themthat fit into their editorial
calendar, that served a needthat they had.
And also, I didn't wanna givethem too much.
It's not their job to be like,here's my pitch for the all the
pitches for the year.
Give them just enough to sayyes.
(35:35):
And also be a helper.
If they need background, if theyneed access to an expert, it's
not always about what do youget?
But a journalist is doing a job.
Sometimes they just need help.
Sometimes they need a quote.
They don't want a buy my book.
(35:55):
They want to fill in an expertquote, which is also credibility
building for you that you canput on your website.
Which you've been in everymagazine.
I have been quoted many times inthe Wall Street Journal, the New
York Times, and that isauthority building.
(36:17):
But if you're not using theresult and leveraging it, then
you're not doing your job asyour best marketer.
Oh, sorry, I'm gonna get off mysoapbox, but I really want
authors to be in charge.
And let's pivot now that I'mdone, beating a drum.
(36:38):
Terry, you're such a big reader.
Can you tell me one of yourfavorite books that you told me
it before, but I want you to, ifyou don't remember, I'll tell
you'cause you sent this to mebefore.
Terry (36:52):
I think it was probably the professor and the madman.
Allison (36:55):
Yes.
Terry (36:56):
A book that I was actually in a session in New
York where we talked about thisbook being a bestselling book.
And I have a signed copy by theauthor Simon Winchester, as well
as his agent, his publicist.
They all signed the front of mybook by the way.
This is a, a little known storyreally about the making of the
(37:20):
Oxford English Dictionary, thelargest dictionary in the
English language.
When they made that dictionary,one of the people that was the
greatest contributor to thatdictionary never showed up at
the meetings.
Professor Murray couldn't figureout why this guy never came to
their meetings.
He found him actually in theBroadmoor Asylum in England.
(37:44):
He was locked up in a cell thatwas there.
He had been a Confederate, or,no, he was a union soldier.
And was a surgeon and actuallymade him as a doctor for people
that deserted to heat up abranding iron and brand people's
cheek with a letter D, which isa horrible thing.
(38:07):
So, the fact that he had to dothis as a doctor just drove him
crazy.
And so he was out in London,stumbling in the streets and
imagined somebody and pulled outa gun and shot them and killed
them.
That's why they locked him up inthis asylum for the rest of his
life.
But he was still getting astipend from the US Military.
(38:27):
And so, this guy bought books,so he had his whole cell lined
with books and so he was one ofthe greatest contributors to the
making of the Oxford EnglishDictionary.
It's a fascinating book, and it
Allison (38:39):
I loved that book.
I loved it.
I remember reading it, thinkinglike, wow.
Alright, Terry, let's bring ithome.
Let's hear one tip that everyonecan do today to get their book
in the world.
I
Terry (38:58):
guess the biggest tip that I would give you is to not
just be soaking in knowledge andactively reading about different
things that you can do, but takeaction.
I guess at the end of the day todo something, to be telling
people about your book.
Maybe it's a little video youput on TikTok.
Maybe it's a podcast that youpitch.
Maybe it's a radio interviewthat you pitch, a magazine, a
(39:22):
query letter that you write.
There's dozens of things thatyou can do, but don't just read
about them.
Actively, do something today.
Allison (39:31):
You heard it here, it's time to take action.
We're here giving you all thegoods.
And I know that you're incarpool or you're sitting in a
parking lot waiting for yourdaughter to get out of
basketball practice.
That's just me several times aweek.
But you do have to pick up apen, or put together your pitch,
(39:54):
or join a writer's community, orlearn how to market your book.
You could join my bestsellerlaunch school and get every
thing all the tools, all thetemplates, all the best
practices so that it's easy.
But whatever you don't lament,don't do it alone because we're
(40:17):
better when we're together.
Writing is solitary.
Being a writer, it's better whenyou're part of a community cause
we're here to help each other.
I want to thank you, Terry, somuch for being here.
And thank you for listening, forshowing up for yourself, for
(40:38):
sharing this podcast and thisepisode with someone you know
needs it.
They're not gonna find it unlessyou send it to them.
So stop and just forward it.
Send them a text.
You need to listen to this.
Terry's brilliant.
Allison is so fun.
She really knows her poo.
Whatever you do, take action.
(41:00):
Share what you know, and ask forwhat you need.
That's your job.
That's my challenge to you.
And if you have a question youwanna send to me in the show
notes.
Click the button, send me aquestion.
It'll say, send me a text andthen you can send me a text and
I get it right away.
It's magic.
(41:21):
Alright, I'll see you next week.
Terry (41:23):
Thank you.
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