April 22, 2025 • 43 mins
What if your book launch isn’t over, it’s just getting started?
Allison Lane sits down with digital marketing expert Rich Brooks to unravel the myths around visibility, author platforms, and the outdated tactics holding authors back. Whether you’re writing your book, launching it, or trying to breathe life back into it post-pub, this conversation breaks down the essential steps to get discovered in today’s noisy digital world.
You’ll learn how to reverse-engineer your author marketing strategy and find your readers using tools you already have.
Hit play if you’re ready to ditch the overwhelm and market smarter, not harder.
What You’ll Learn:
- The key digital marketing fundamentals authors can’t skip (and why Wix isn’t one of them).
- How to grow your visibility without relying on social media followers.
- A smarter way to use email and video to connect with future readers.
Resources Mentioned:
- Rich Brooks’ website: https://www.takeflyte.com
- Rich Brooks' podcast: The Agents of Change Digital Marketing Podcast: https://www.theagentsofchange.com/podcasts
- Rich on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/therichbrooks/
- Book recommendation:
- CABIN: Off the Grid Adventures with a Clueless Craftsman by Patrick Hutchison: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250285706
- The Gatekeeper: A Thriller by James Byrne: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250890030
Timestamps:
[04:50] The website mistakes most authors make and how to fix them
[12:40] Why your friends and family aren’t your ideal audience
[16:00] Email marketing truths authors need to hear
[24:10] Real talk on what’s working (and what’s dead) in digital marketing
[36:30] How to shift your message beyond your current bubble
Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeJGjBYcPAM
Rate, Review, & Follow The Author’s Edge
“So incredibly helpful!” >>> If that sounds like you, I’d be so grateful if you’d rate and review the show! Your support helps more authors build their brands, reach their audiences, and launch their books successfully.
Here’s how:
- Click here, scroll to the bottom, and tap to rate with five stars.
- Select “Write a Review” and tell me what you loved most about the episode!
And don’t forget to follow the podcast if you haven’t already. I’m sharing bonus episodes packed with insider tips, and I’d hate for you to miss out. Hit that follow button now.
LinkedIn @allisonlanelit
Facebook @allisonlanelit
🔔 Subscribe for more tips and insights on writing and publishing!
👍 Like, comment, and share this video if you found it helpful!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rich (00:00):
You're not gonna beat the internet on volume.
You as an individual cannotcreate the kind of content that
these media publishers can dowhere they have people hired
specifically to write SEOcontent or specifically to run
the best Google Ads.
It's just impossible for asingle person to make that kind
of impact anymore.
But what you can do is beat theinternet on quality or on
(00:23):
perspective.
So, I think really honing yourmessage and really figuring out
what makes you stand out andyour results resonate with a
certain audience.
That's where you should beputting your time and effort.
Allison (01:00):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge where we're trying
to make your path so much easierand so much more fun.
And I know that the world ofpublishing and wanting to write
a book or about to launch yourbook or trying to fuel sales of
the book that's already outthere, that you think that my
(01:20):
launch is over.
It's not over.
It's new to the person who findsit today.
So, let's breathe about it.
And assume the very best,because I'm trying to lay this
down for you.
There's always a way.
There's always a way that'sfaster and easier, and it's my
(01:41):
job to bring to you all the tipsand tricks and hacks that I
gleaned over all my years in bigbrand marketing, but also from
this world of technology and newways that we can be more
(02:02):
productive, more creative, moreefficient.
And sometimes you just needsomebody to tell you, this is
how I do it and I've made allthe mistakes.
And so, here you go.
So, if you've been wonderingwhat's actually working in
marketing lately, specificallyin digital marketing.
(02:23):
And you're looking to save timebecause you can't make time.
I hate it when people say, I'mgonna make time.
No, you're not.
Everybody gets the same.
You're going to devote time andyou want to be more clear and
picky about how you devote yourtime.
This episode is for you.
Before we get into it, I want toremind you this term, digital
(02:46):
marketing means nothing unlesswe define it.
Digital marketing is all aboutusing online tools like social.
Social media is part of digitalmarketing.
Email, search engines, websites,all the ways that you can
connect with your readers, youraudience, grow, your reach even
(03:10):
online advertising.
All of those tactics andmethods, they're all part of the
digital marketing soup.
And whether you're an author oran expert who wants to break out
of your industry silo and growyour visibility, so maybe you
can have a smoother path fromyour tenure to track teaching at
(03:35):
the university to also becominga keynote speaker.
Do you notice I didn't sayinstead of.
You're not changing jobs orhaving a major career pivot.
You are growing and expandingbecause your ripple effect is
bigger,'cause you're a grownupnow, and you don't need to ask
(03:56):
permission.
And I'm not that you did, but Iknow sometimes we are trained to
say, oh, I have to start at thebottom.
No, you don't.
And this is we're opening thedoors to let you do this in an
easier way.
The thing is when you wanna growyour visibility or your become
more discoverable, and in theolden days we used to call that
(04:21):
build your platform, but thatterm makes everybody gag'cause
nobody knows what it means.
So we just poo that.
But you do need to have apresence in the digital world.
You really can't skip over somefundamentals.
Yes, you will have to have awebsite.
(04:41):
Please don't do what I did,which I started with Wix, which
is lovely if you are a techieand a good designer.
My Wix site was a dumpster fire.
It looked terrible.
And then, I switched toWordPress, which I deleted my
WordPress site twice byaccident, by pressing, I don't
(05:02):
know a button.
And then, I switched tofusionsoft, I wanna say to do
all the backend stuff that Ifeel like you needed calculus to
do that.
Now, I have everything inKajabi, my website, all my data
because I needed essentially anall-in-one garanimals color by
(05:26):
numbers type of tool that wouldkeep all of my online stuff in
one place for dummies likemyself, you can get super techie
in Kajabi, but I don't becauseit's not my bailiwick.
But.
If you are thinking I don't knowhow to do any of that.
(05:48):
First of all, we're here foryou.
And second, I want you to atleast be like familiar with
these terms so that you have afoundation to build trust and
stay visible and engage withpeople beyond the people you
(06:09):
know one to want.
People will want to email youafter your book comes out and
you will not be able to answerall of those emails.
And I know you're thinking, howmany could it be?
I'm sure I could answer them.
No, you can't because thousandsof people will buy your book.
And I know it's hard to believenow, but it's true.
No one ever believes how big andmeaningful their book is going
(06:34):
to be to strangers who havenever met them.
But it happens every single timeand we are here for you to make
that happen.
Today, I asked, really beggedand cyber stocked.
One of my favorite people in thedigital world who I listened to
(06:56):
his podcast religiously.
Sometimes I'll listen to anepisode two or three times and
then stop and take notes of whatI'm supposed to do.
And even then.
Sometimes, I still have to breakit down more.
Today, Rich Brooks has agreed tocome and sprinkle his wisdom so
that we can all get better.
(07:17):
Rich is a digital marketing pro.
He's a long time agency founderup in Portland, Maine, which is
so idyllic and gorgeous.
And he's the guy behind theAgents of Change podcast, which
we will put all of this in theshow notes, so you'll be able to
click on it and go directly tohis podcast, which you should
(07:39):
subscribe to right away.
In fact, just pause this and goand subscribe to that and then
come back.
Okay, done.
He's been in the game since theearly days when God was a boy
and dirt was new, just like mewhen before caller, ID probably
I think I might be older thanRich.
(07:59):
But in this episode he'sbreaking down for us what's
working now and what to leavebehind, including some existing
beliefs about technology thatyou can also leave behind.
And some myths that might beholding you back.
So, let's get into it.
Welcome, Rich.
I'm so happy that you're hereand that you're going to help us
(08:22):
get smarter.
Rich (08:23):
Well, Allison, that was a very kind introduction and I
hope I live up to the hype.
Allison (08:29):
Well, I don't know about I think it's all true and
I think it's important even thisis probably a good learning
moment for you listener,'cause Iknow you're driving and you're
thinking Allison says, everybodyis big poo.
And it's true.
No one can actually see howimpressive they are unless you
(08:49):
ask somebody else.
And so, yes, perhaps I said kindthings, but all true things
because you are a big effingdeal.
Rich (08:58):
I've been doing it for a while.
You say that coming up 28 years,hereon.
I've seen a few things.
Yeah.
Allison (09:07):
Well, I'm so happy that we are able to come together and
take what the expertise and thebest methods that you're seeing
out there and translate them tohelp experts in their field who
are not agency owners, and theyare not usually coaches, and
(09:27):
they're usually starting fromscratch.
They're running an emergencydepartment at a hospital or
maybe they are teaching at auniversity or they head up HR at
a corporation.
They don't have a website.
Rich (09:43):
Right.
Allison (09:43):
They're starting from scratch.
But you know what they alsodon't have patience to become a
freaking expert in all thesethings.
When I left corporate, Americatwo weeks before Covid, which
that's a story I'll tell onanother episode.
I thought, oh, I'm stillcapable, I was capable because
(10:05):
anytime I needed something, Iwould turn to my PR agency of
200 people.
And say, you know what?
Would be great is if we had awebsite that said this, and it
would be like, poof, magic.
It would be there.
And now that's it's not true.
And so, when it comes tostarting out, establishing
(10:26):
yourself, what's a mistake yousee people make when it comes to
establishing their digital homebase so that they could be
marketers.
I already told you what mymistake was.
I deleted everything,
Rich (10:43):
So, I think of the biggest things is the assumption that
social media is gonna be enough.
I'm a big believer, andobviously, I run a digital
agency that builds websites, soI'm biased, right?
But I do think that there needsto be a digital space that you
own.
Where if you're building yourpresence on Facebook, or
LinkedIn, or forbid X, those arevery temporary things.
(11:06):
You're basically building yourhouse on borrowed land.
And there's nothing wrong ofusing those tools, and I'm sure
a lot of the listeners herewould benefit from really coming
up with a strategy and executingon that strategy.
And I'm happy to talk about thattoo.
You need a domain.
You need a website with a domainthat you own and start building
that up and using social mediaand other marketing tactics that
(11:28):
we can discuss to drive trafficto that website.
So that you can build your list,so that you can win over fans,
and so that you can build itkind of communication that you
were talking about earlier,Allison.
Allison (11:40):
I think that you're so right.
It is the first step becausethere's this prevalent
complaint, let's say.
That I'm sharing things, but mysocial is just not growing.
Correct?
You are posting things among thepeople you are already connected
to who are not the audience foryour book or for your message,
(12:06):
or for your co.
They are peers, friends, andfamily.
So you gotta lower yourexpectations on your friends or
your critique partner, engagingin your content and sharing it.
Because first of all, who caresif they share it, if they're not
your audience, the people theyshare it with are also not going
(12:28):
to be your audience.
So, that's number one.
And number two, no matter whatyou're posting, the algorithm
only shows your social contentto what's the percentage now.
Rich (12:41):
Well, if it's a business, it's less than one percent.
So, if have a hundred fans,you're lucky if one person is
actually gonna be fed thatcontent.
Which is different than if theygo and they seek you out.
If they seek out your Facebookpage, your Instagram account,
obviously they're gonna seethat.
But as far as actually seeingyour content on Facebook, which
is the toughest audience.
(13:01):
That's obviously problematic.
You cannot rely on organic.
The exception being, if you arenot using a business page and
you're just using your personalprofile, which is absolutely
acceptable that's a way that youcould actually get more
engagement.
But again, there are limitationsto the personal profiles as
well, and you may not wannashare what's going on in your
(13:22):
author life with all yourfriends and family.
So, that's something else tokeep in mind.
Allison (13:28):
Very, very true.
Usually, when people hear, now Ihave to build an email list,
they think they're being sneaky.
I don't know exactly why.
But they think, wait, I'm goingto collect things and people,
you're not sneaking right?
Rich (13:47):
No, you're asking permission.
Allison (13:49):
Right?
You're asking permission andpeople are leaning forward.
And saying, gosh, I really wannastay up to date on what you're
doing.
Rich, I get all your emails.
I don't think that you've stolenmy email.
When I don't get them, everyonce in a while they'll end up
in a different folder.
I go.
I know.
You really do have to go andwhitelist them and over and over
(14:10):
again and tell Gmail or Hotmail,cut it out.
Do it this way.
But I have to go look for it,right?
And that because I leanedforward, I asked for it.
I want all that wisdom deliveredto me in a way that is easy for
me.
'cause if I didn't sign up foryour emails, I would have to go
search out.
(14:32):
The content that you're puttinginto the world.
And I love that you curate yourtips and methods and send me an
email.
I know it's not directly to dearAllison, this is only for you,
but it feels like it.
And that way I don't have to gochase down your breadcrumbs
everywhere.
(14:52):
And I like that's available, butI do think that it's a mistake
for people to think how manyemails should I send?
I get this question all thetime, even yesterday, several
times.
How many emails should I send?
What's the is once a month couldbe.
And then they always say,'causeI hate getting those emails.
(15:15):
What do you say to that?
Rich (15:17):
Well,
Allison (15:17):
I
Rich (15:17):
would say, never less than once a month.
I think if you're sending outemails less than once a month,
people forget that they're onyour list.
And I know for me personally,when I see an email come in,
that's a subscription email, andI don't remember signing up for
this.
I hit the spam button prettyquickly.
And I think a lot of people havebeen trained to do that.
So, I think staying in front ofthe people is better.
(15:39):
And the magic words in marketingis, it depends, right?
So, it depends what you'retrying to do with your list,
with your book, with yourcareer.
If you're doing something maybein the non-fiction area where
you may be helping people withtheir A DHD or with their
finances or with theirrelationships.
There's probably ongoingcontent, new news stories come
(16:01):
out, new research comes out thatbeyond the book, you wanna stay
in front of these people.
You wanna develop somethingmaybe'cause you want those
keynote presentations, maybebecause you've got another book
coming in you.
You've got or you've got coursesthat you wanna sell as part of
this whole thing.
So it really does depend on whatyour goals are.
And if you have things like anew launch coming out, then
you're probably gonna wanna sendmore often.
(16:23):
Some people, depending on theirindustry, their niche can get
away with weekly or even dailyemails if you can create that
much content.
I don't wanna put pressure onyou.
Once a month is fine, if that'sall you can get out there, but
I'm sure you have a lot toshare.
My dad has written probably 13,15 books at this point, some by
himself, some with others.
And he sends out a monthlynewsletter on a specific topic
(16:45):
that's usually aroundresilience, which is his claim
to fame, and he does a lot ofclinical research.
So there's always interestingthings that he can share with an
audience that will help them,either their parents or their
teachers or their employers.
Help them with those kind ofcategories.
So the short answer is, it doesdepend never less than once a
month.
And just try and put yourself inyour audience's shoes.
(17:07):
What do they wanna learn about?
How can you help them with theirjourney?
And that's the kind of contentthat you should be sharing.
Allison (17:15):
I love this, I love learning about your dad and his
topic is resilience.
That's awesome, really.
But it also made me think he'ssending something out, you said
once a month, but he's alsosending a newsletter versus an
email, can you d do youdelineate those?
Rich (17:35):
I don't really, his email is a standalone email, although
I think we trained him toultimately post the entire
article.
It's really an article.
Allison (17:44):
Okay.
Rich (17:45):
I mean, If you printed this out, it's five to eight
pages each time.
So
Allison (17:48):
Oh, okay.
Rich (17:48):
That's what he's writing on a monthly basis.
And then the newsletter has somethings about some upcoming
speeches he might have, or maybehe was just on a podcast or a
radio show or a TV show that areavailable online.
So, we do it for him, but we'lllink to those for him kind of a
thing.
Other people, depending on whatthe topic is, it might be a very
brief email.
Example, my podcast, I send outan email every week to let
(18:10):
people know what the topic is.
Sometimes there's some otherpromotional things if I've got
an upcoming webinar or whatever.
Those tend to be short andpithy.
I just tease up what theinterview's gonna be about.
I've been trying to include aphoto of my life so people get
to know me a little bit better.
And so that's probably more onwhat some people might think of
like as an email versus maybe anemail newsletter.
(18:31):
I think that it's like a grayarea on when one becomes
something or the other.
Allison (18:37):
I think what I'm picturing too is that your
father knows who his audienceis.
Rich (18:43):
Yes.
Allison (18:43):
If I received a five to eight page article, I better
really be looking for that.
Otherwise, sometimes you justhave to scroll through and go,
oh yeah, I got the big points.
So, he must really understandwhat people are looking for and
the people who sign up for that.
Rich (19:04):
I would never tell they should write a monthly article
or a monthly email that canprint out at eight pages.
That's ridiculous.
And yet he has a very engagedaudience.
And you mentioned earlier thatpeople will email you.
My dad gets hundreds of emailsfrom these and he responds to
each one.
He's crazy.
Whatever.
It's not like he has all thetime, but he takes it very
(19:24):
seriously.
So, again it depends on what youare looking to do and this is
how he wants to share hisknowledge with the world.
He's got a lot of research, he'sgot a lot of opinions and uh, he
wants to put it out there.
And so, that's kind of how heserves his audience.
Allison (19:37):
And at least he is giving like a really big chunk.
The mistake I see people make isthat they want to only send one
email.
And then they pack a bunch oflike a bunch of news and here's
my take on this and here are the15 places I'm going to be.
(19:57):
And it becomes a patchwork of somuch information that it's too
much all at once.
But they think they're doingtheir reader a solid because
they've only sent one email.
And what you've done is thrown aton of crazy at people.
It's too much.
Rich (20:19):
I think some of that content that you just described,
and there's no one partsolution, some of the content
you described might be bettersocial post.
There's something that happenedin the news.
And I would also consider itlike, how am I positioning
myself?
How do I want to be seen?
And I want to be consistenthere.
So, if I've written a book aboutmanaging stress and there's
obviously a lot of things thatwould induce stress these days I
(20:40):
might social media discusssomething that's in the news and
talk about how somebody mightmanage the stress comes news
stories like this one as anexample.
So, that might be a better causefor something that's in social
media.
The other nice thing aboutsocial media if you've built up
the audiences that we've talkedabout, is you might see that
something you posted got a lotmore engagement and there was a
(21:01):
lot more interest around it.
Okay, now you know, this isactually a pain point for your
audience.
So, now maybe that does becomean article on your website or
the next chapter in your book oran email that goes out to
everybody.
There's ways can use socialmedia almost as a testing ground
to see what to that audienceyou're trying to nurture and
serve.
Allison (21:19):
So true.
A big reminder for me toactually go back in and look at
my analytics in LinkedIn moreoften too, to find out what
people like.
Rich (21:29):
Well, it's interesting that we, just to talk about this
for a second.
So, recently I put on a webinarabout the practical uses for AI.
And we had a signup that youknow, we just have a generic
signup.
Not generic, but we have asignup default that we use and
then we customize it.
And I went through the process'cause I hadn't done it in a
while.
And as I'm filling it out, afterI finished, I actually, there's
(21:50):
a place that says, whatquestions would you like
answered?
And I wrote into it like tonguein cheek.
Does anybody actually fill outthis form?
And we had like about 150 peopleor 180 people.
I forget the exact number whosigned up for this.
And John on my team said,actually, we get quite a few
people and there's some greatquestions in there.
So, I ended up going into itjust today.
I you know, sorted everything'cause it's in a spreadsheet.
(22:13):
I sorted and I pulled out allthe questions.
I dropped it into chat GPT.
And I said, can you summarizethese questions for me and maybe
help me come up with some ideasabout future webinars or future
blog posts or other types ofcontent that we might create
that would help my audience byanswering these kind of
questions.
So, that was just an interestingway of using ai.
Pulling from the audience.
(22:34):
Yes, I could have read througheach one of those questions and
I could have thought aboutdifferent answers.
But this was a quick way tosummarize this stuff and also
generate not the content'cause Idon't like using AI to write for
me, that's just who I am.
But to kind of like frame thingsfor me so I could get my mind
thinking creatively about how doI help somebody solve that
problem?
Allison (22:52):
I freaking love that.
I'm gonna totally steal thatabout.
Like stealing with pride.
You know, that idea of you'reregistering, people are
registering for your event for areason.
And they really need like anopen-ended, like what are you
really struggling with?
What questions do you wanna makesure I answer?
(23:15):
Genius.
I'm doing it.
Rich (23:17):
Absolutely.
I'm looking at the book in yourbackground, A DHD for Smart Ass
Women.
And I'm like, if I was that Iwas that person and I was
putting on webinars things, ordoing other things.
I'd be asking open endedquestion, like that what are you
really struggling with, when itcomes to your ADHD?
And I may have things I've neverconsidered that are real pain
points for my audience, and nowI'm getting all that great data
(23:39):
and I know how to serve thembetter.
Allison (23:41):
That is indeed, yes.
That book actually is structuredbased on the questions that
people ask the author, TracyOtsuka.
Because you wouldn't think ofit, but high achieving women who
have adult onset, A DHD.
They're often leaders and thenthey have a setback at work
(24:03):
because their perception islike, oh, she's becoming
flighty.
No, she's not.
She has so many ideas that sheneeds to be in a different role.
Because that's how that sameidea informed that structure,
but not using ai.
So, that would've been a goodone.
That was before.
Rich (24:23):
I just use AI get to get things done a little bit
quicker.
It's great that she's alreadydone that.
She's done.
the work.
I would just say when she writesher next book, she could
basically save some time and putit towards other places where
she can use her creativity andthat value.
That's kind of how I look at AIthese days.
Allison (24:39):
I listened to your latest episode with Dan Sanchez.
And of course, I'm on my secondlisten now'cause I was like,
what?
Blowing my mind.
And we'll link in the show notesto that episode?
Can you talk about one bigchange you've seen recently in
(24:59):
digital marketing and how it'simproving things for folks?
Rich (25:06):
In terms of artificial intelligence specifically, or?
Allison (25:09):
Well, yeah.
Artificial intelligence well,let's start with that.
But I was even thinking thatpeople used to go to events and
hand out business cards.
And now, you can create a QRcode, make it your screen saver
on your phone.
And it can go directly to yourscheduler or to your website or
(25:32):
your LinkedIn profile.
Because in the olden days, youwould come back from an event.
And have a stack of cards andthen have to email everybody or
go to LinkedIn and search forthem.
And that now that happens at theevent while you're standing
(25:53):
there in real time.
Rich (25:55):
Yes, although I will put in a plug for old school
marketing and networking becauseit is a typical these days and
very often we can gain attentionby not going with all the recent
trends and instead doingsomething.
Like if I get a business cardthese days and I still have my
business cards, even post covid,and I hand them out.
Because they're really welldesigned and they're really nice
(26:18):
stock.
And people remember that.
And as a design firm, that'spart of what we offer.
Like that to me, makes adifference and it makes a
statement.
But I do agree that you know,obviously things are to change.
And as we look at like what'sworking right now, I would say
that a lot of things are movingto video.
(26:38):
Which not everybody, especiallypeople who might be authors or
have written a book and tryingto promote it may not feel
comfortable getting on video.
But it is a powerful tool andthere's no two ways about it.
If you do feel comfortabletalking about it.
I know that my daughters oftenget their book reading
recommendations through TikTokthese days.
And you may be rolling your eyesas you listen to this.
(26:59):
You may be sticking your fingerdown your throat.
It doesn't matter.
And you may not be writing tothat audience.
But the bottom line is there isan audience on TikTok and on
these other platforms.
That want to hear your message,that want to hear your story
that are struggling withwhatever it is.
And taking some of the ideasthat you might have put up to in
a written social media post orin an email.
(27:22):
And explaining them via video isnot a bad thing, and you don't
have to hire anybody to do this.
This is something you can dowith the tools that you already
have at your disposal.
You take a quick video on youriPhone or Android and you upload
it to TikTok or reels, which isfrom Facebook and Instagram.
And you can really start tobuild a relationship.
(27:42):
A digital relationship, at leastwith your audience because they
get to know you.
In many cases, they want to knowmore about you.
You have to decide how muchyou're gonna let them in.
But when we make a connectionwith a creator, and that's
really what you are, is you're acreator.
It makes their creation evenmore important to us.
It resonates at an even deeperlevel.
And it's not a author example,for years if I was gonna buy a
(28:07):
piece of jewelry, I would nevergo to the mall jewelry store.
I would go to a place in townthat featured local artists and
they would often have a cardthat would explain, how the
artist came up with the idea.
And what their training was andwhat inspired them.
And then, when I gave this pieceof jewelry as a gift, I could
tell that story and it added somuch context to that gift.
(28:27):
I think we can do the same thingnow easier using digital
marketing.
So, whether you're writingfiction or nonfiction, if you're
sharing some of your creativejourney with people, I think it
feels like they own a little bitmore.
They're part of the process.
And they're much more likely towant to keep on hearing from you
(28:47):
and buying from you.
Allison (28:49):
We have to break that down'cause that was pure
freaking genius.
The thing that I wanna point outtoo is that, on TikTok has book
talk.
There are book talkers outthere, just like on Instagram.
We have these influencers outthere.
But also before your book comesout or even before you get a
(29:11):
book deal, you can be so muchmore efficient just using your
phone recording a question andan answer.
And putting it on TikTok orYouTube.
And you're generating thecontent without having to be at
(29:31):
your computer.
You could do it while you'rewalking, you know, walking the
dog or in the car at carpool.
People have seen my videos,which I do a lot of times
sitting at carpool or waitingfor my daughter to get out of
some kind of sports practice,which we spend hours at every
(29:52):
week.
And that's where I do that.
There are people my clients likeDr.
Mara Einstein, who just wrote,hoodwinked, which is how brands
now use the same tactics ascults.
Yikes.
After she got her book deal,there's a time between the
(30:13):
signing of the deal to when thebook comes out and she said, I'm
gonna start a TikTok.
And I was like, oh, that'sfreaking awesome.
Now, she's, I don't know, closeto a hundred thousand followers,
and that was just two years ago.
She's answering questions andaddressing things like, why is
my, eighth grader being marketedto by colleges.
(30:37):
Or why does everybody need tobuy that, like shoe whitener for
white shoes, and why is it out?
So, she's addressing thesethings and she's getting
requests for speakingengagements.
Cold calling her through peoplewho are finding her on TikTok.
So, that is a genius.
(30:58):
And she doesn't have to sit outand write at a laptop like
people used to think they had togo into a cave or a cabin in the
woods.
And go and take a sabbatical.
And then, write.
Now, if your mind is going, youcan turn on your phone and you
are carrying a TV studio withyou.
Nobody needs it to be perfectlighting or perfect makeup or
(31:21):
the right whatever.
Be real and do your thing andshare your knowledge.
Yes, that was so good.
And that you can turn all ofthat into social or and be
timely.
Especially, if something popsup.
Rich, what is a popular tacticthat's not working anymore?
Rich (31:45):
Anything to do with spamming, whether it's spamming
emails, whether it's spammingcontent to get into the search
engines.
I think those are things like,it used to be when I first
started.
I could write a blog post and itwould get onto the front page of
Google for its specific searchterms I was going after in no
time and just stay there.
But then, as brands started tounderstand SEO better, it became
(32:07):
a much more competitivemarketplace.
Google changed.
Now, you've got the AI overviewsall these problems.
So it is just everything is alot tougher these days.
That's one thing I want toexpress to people, that it's not
gonna be an overnight success.
When I started in 1997, it was alot easier to make a big splash
because people were not on theweb as much and there wasn't as
(32:29):
much competition.
Where now it is, the inboxes arefull and the social media feeds
are full.
The things that aren't workingis using the things that were so
successful a few years ago.
I just had a conversation with aclient of mine.
He is a robust blogger.
He blogs basically once a weekon a very niche topic.
I won't say what it is rightnow, but it's you know, it's
(32:50):
something that is, he was justcrushing it at the search
engines.
And for his specific topic, hewas always, coming up in the top
few results.
Google shifted and now his topictends to be something that pulls
up shopping results, e-commerceresults, and he has basically
disappeared from that.
He wants things to go back theway they were.
(33:11):
But they don't.
So, I think you just have to payattention to what you're
actually seeing out there andwhat's working.
As far as I'm concerned, itreally just is, it's not that
one thing isn't necessarilyworking outside of, like I said,
just trying to generate contentto rank well or generate content
just to get seen in social.
I think those things are not aseffective as they used to be.
And I would say that it's notabout, unless your book is meant
(33:34):
to be read by everybody on theplanet.
That shouldn't be your goal foran audience either.
And you can be very successfulwith a small email list, with a
small social media following.
As long as it's the rightfollowing and the right
audience.
So, you're not gonna beat theinternet on volume.
You as an individual cannotcreate the kind of content that
(33:58):
these media publishers can dowhere they have people hired
specifically to write SEOcontent or specifically to run
the best Google Ads.
It's just impossible for asingle person to make that kind
of impact anymore.
But what you can do is beat theinternet on quality or on
perspective.
So, I think really honing yourmessage and really figuring out
(34:19):
what makes you stand out andyour results resonate with a
certain audience.
That's where you should beputting your time and effort.
Because I don't think you canyou know, spray and pray as we
used to say.
I think you really have to beconscientious about who you're
trying to reach and how you needto serve them.
I hope that was an answer thatworked for you, Allison.
Allison (34:39):
Everything you do is magic, Rich.
I mean, come on.
I think you are the bee's kneesand I'm really honored that
you're here.
Rich (34:49):
Allison, all you ever have to do is ask.
Allison (34:51):
Oh, come on.
Thanks.
The thing is, and what I feelcalled to do is to help people
who are already experts insomething share their wisdom.
It's knowledge until you shareit and then it's wisdom.
So, the problem is that a lot ofpeople who are experts in their
(35:15):
field are busy being experts.
And they don't make the decisionearly enough to expand their
reach and help more people'causethey're already big wigs amongst
the people who know them.
The 200 people they know andthey're already keynoting
industry association events.
(35:39):
But all they're doing ispreaching helping the choir.
And really what we want is, tosell at a concert venue.
I wanna help people who shouldbe well known outside of their
industry, break down thebarriers and maybe the
self-imposed obstacles to do itfaster and easier.
(36:02):
And you are helping, me, dothat.
So, I feel like we're on thesame wavelength.
Rich (36:08):
And I think for those people if somebody is finding
themselves in that situation andwondering how to break out of
the 200 people who already knowthem.
The first question I would askmyself, is my message right now
going to resonate with anybodyoutside of this smaller room?
Because we do sometimes have tochange the way we talk.
I'm gonna talk to, we have aweekly marketing meeting here at
(36:29):
Flight and I get you know, fiveor six of my employees in the
room and we brainstorm and it'ssuper nerd.
You know, we nerd out overanalytics and stuff like that.
That's not the message that mostof my audience wants to hear, at
least not right at thebeginning.
They just wanna know, how come Ican't find myself on Google?
How come nobody's buying from mywebsite?
Or how can I use AI in mymarketing?
When I talk to that largeraudience, my message has to
(36:51):
shift because it's not gonnaresonate with them.
You have to go meet people wherethey are.
So, if you are in that placewhere you are the top dog in the
room of 200, but nobody outsidethat room who knows who you are,
then you have to figure out howcan you take your knowledge and
turn it into wisdom to use yourvernacular.
By changing the message so thatit adds value to the people
(37:14):
outside that room.
And that's a difficult thing fora lot of us to do because we are
experts in what we do and weknow how to talk to the people
in the smaller room.
But if you wanna be in thatconcert hall, then you have to
really understand the painpoints of the people who are
gonna go to that concert hall.
Allison (37:31):
So freaking true.
And that's why like you said,you start with, what questions
are people asking?
No one's ever asking.
Can you tell me the method youuse to improve your AI output?
All people usually come with aproblem.
I can't do this, or I'm havingtrouble doing that.
It's not up to them to figureout the solution or what they
(37:53):
need.
If they knew what that was,they'd freaking do it.
So, yes, always start with wherepeople are.
Okay.
I'm gonna pivot because we lovegetting book recommendations
from guests.
And opening doors to fiction,nonfiction, anything.
(38:13):
What's a book you love rightnow?
Rich (38:16):
Alright.
So, there are quite a few that Iwas thinking of.
But I would say that the onethat I'm reading right now is
book three in a new series.
The series, the first book iscalled The Gatekeeper.
And it's Des Limerick is themain character.
And basically, he was in thearmed forces and he can open any
gate, whether it's physical ordigital.
He can keep it open for as longas his team needs him to, and he
(38:38):
can close it and make surenobody else gets through it like
that's his superpower.
Which sounds like such a randomthing, but the books are so well
written and Dez is probably themost charismatic protagonist.
I've just about ever read, and Ijust, I love these books.
I'm on the third book right now.
It came out recently, it'scalled Chain Reaction, but
gatekeepers, where people shouldstart if they love, you know, if
(39:01):
you like reacher, if you likeorphan X, which is another
series I love.
If you like those kind of likepeople who have some sort of,
they're human, but they've gotsome special skill that just
makes them rise above the rest.
This is a great series for you.
Allison (39:14):
I love that.
I read all of the Vince Flynnbooks back to back, like all 22
of them.
And then, sadly he died at Idunno, book 18.
And then, they brought insomebody else to continue the
series.
Boy, I love a series.
I could go through them forsure.
Thank you for that.
Okay, Rich, bring it home.
(39:36):
Before we part, what's one thingyou wanna leave people with?
Rich (39:41):
Well, I had an idea, but I feel from today's conversation
that I want to say somethingdifferent.
So, I would say that the pieceof advice that I'd want people
to take away from this is, youreally first need to decide
where you want to go with allthis.
And I said a lot of things, youcould do this, you could do
this.
It depends.
And that's true.
So, I think the first thing youneed to think about is if you
are in that room where you'rethe top dog, so to speak, of 200
(40:03):
and you wanna get outside thatroom, is you really have to
learn what those people outsidethe room need from you.
And then create the content thatanswers their question.
Like we talked about in, in manydifferent ways is not dumbing
down your content, but insteadapplying it for needs outside of
that room.
And that's really where I'dstart.
And sometimes that comes fromasking questions of the people
(40:25):
outside of that smaller room andgetting that feedback.
So, that would probably be whereI'd start if I really wanted to
more time to my books and tohelping people through my
writing.
Allison (40:36):
Wise stuff from Rich Brooks, which I never call you
Rich.
I always call you Rich Brooks.
Thank you so much, Rich Brooks.
Where can people reach you, findyou, listen to you?
Rich (40:47):
If you like podcasts and if you're curious about learning
more about digital marketing,definitely check out the Agents
of Change.
That's my weekly podcast.
Been doing it for over a decade.
We just put episode 577 to bed.
So, definitely been doing thatfor a while.
And if you want to connect withme, I'm always happy to answer
questions.
I am the Rich Brooks on everyplatform, but I'm most active on
LinkedIn just because it's theonly one that's not pissing me
(41:11):
off right now.
Allison (41:12):
Hooray, for LinkedIn.
Me too.
LinkedIn is my play place.
This is fantastic.
Thank you so much, Rich.
For those listening and for youin Carpool, here's what I want
you to do.
Listen to this again, maybe readthrough the transcript, which is
on your phone.
I know you're in carpool.
(41:34):
And then, subscribe to the showso it always gets delivered to
you because you know that we'rehere to help.
And then do this one more thing.
Share it with someone who needsit.
Information is not useful unlessit's shared.
I am saying ask for what youneed and share what you know.
(41:54):
Now, you know this, so share it.
You know somebody who's tryingto figure out their website or
trying to go bigger or planningtheir book launch or wants to
move into the next phase oftheir career.
Let's get this done and let'sget it done together.
I will be here all the time nextweek, the week after.
(42:18):
Send me your questions and youknow I'm here for you.
In the meantime, you are a bigeffing deal.
You're not gonna beat the internet on volume.
You as an individual cannotcreate the kind of content that
these media publishers can dowhere they have people hired
specifically to write SEOcontent or specifically to run
the best Google Ads.
It's just impossible for asingle person to make that kind
of impact anymore.
But what you can do is beat theinternet on quality or on
(00:23):
perspective.
So, I think really honing yourmessage and really figuring out
what makes you stand out andyour results resonate with a
certain audience.
That's where you should beputting your time and effort.
Allison (01:00):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge where we're trying
to make your path so much easierand so much more fun.
And I know that the world ofpublishing and wanting to write
a book or about to launch yourbook or trying to fuel sales of
the book that's already outthere, that you think that my
(01:20):
launch is over.
It's not over.
It's new to the person who findsit today.
So, let's breathe about it.
And assume the very best,because I'm trying to lay this
down for you.
There's always a way.
There's always a way that'sfaster and easier, and it's my
(01:41):
job to bring to you all the tipsand tricks and hacks that I
gleaned over all my years in bigbrand marketing, but also from
this world of technology and newways that we can be more
(02:02):
productive, more creative, moreefficient.
And sometimes you just needsomebody to tell you, this is
how I do it and I've made allthe mistakes.
And so, here you go.
So, if you've been wonderingwhat's actually working in
marketing lately, specificallyin digital marketing.
(02:23):
And you're looking to save timebecause you can't make time.
I hate it when people say, I'mgonna make time.
No, you're not.
Everybody gets the same.
You're going to devote time andyou want to be more clear and
picky about how you devote yourtime.
This episode is for you.
Before we get into it, I want toremind you this term, digital
(02:46):
marketing means nothing unlesswe define it.
Digital marketing is all aboutusing online tools like social.
Social media is part of digitalmarketing.
Email, search engines, websites,all the ways that you can
connect with your readers, youraudience, grow, your reach even
(03:10):
online advertising.
All of those tactics andmethods, they're all part of the
digital marketing soup.
And whether you're an author oran expert who wants to break out
of your industry silo and growyour visibility, so maybe you
can have a smoother path fromyour tenure to track teaching at
(03:35):
the university to also becominga keynote speaker.
Do you notice I didn't sayinstead of.
You're not changing jobs orhaving a major career pivot.
You are growing and expandingbecause your ripple effect is
bigger,'cause you're a grownupnow, and you don't need to ask
(03:56):
permission.
And I'm not that you did, but Iknow sometimes we are trained to
say, oh, I have to start at thebottom.
No, you don't.
And this is we're opening thedoors to let you do this in an
easier way.
The thing is when you wanna growyour visibility or your become
more discoverable, and in theolden days we used to call that
(04:21):
build your platform, but thatterm makes everybody gag'cause
nobody knows what it means.
So we just poo that.
But you do need to have apresence in the digital world.
You really can't skip over somefundamentals.
Yes, you will have to have awebsite.
(04:41):
Please don't do what I did,which I started with Wix, which
is lovely if you are a techieand a good designer.
My Wix site was a dumpster fire.
It looked terrible.
And then, I switched toWordPress, which I deleted my
WordPress site twice byaccident, by pressing, I don't
(05:02):
know a button.
And then, I switched tofusionsoft, I wanna say to do
all the backend stuff that Ifeel like you needed calculus to
do that.
Now, I have everything inKajabi, my website, all my data
because I needed essentially anall-in-one garanimals color by
(05:26):
numbers type of tool that wouldkeep all of my online stuff in
one place for dummies likemyself, you can get super techie
in Kajabi, but I don't becauseit's not my bailiwick.
But.
If you are thinking I don't knowhow to do any of that.
(05:48):
First of all, we're here foryou.
And second, I want you to atleast be like familiar with
these terms so that you have afoundation to build trust and
stay visible and engage withpeople beyond the people you
(06:09):
know one to want.
People will want to email youafter your book comes out and
you will not be able to answerall of those emails.
And I know you're thinking, howmany could it be?
I'm sure I could answer them.
No, you can't because thousandsof people will buy your book.
And I know it's hard to believenow, but it's true.
No one ever believes how big andmeaningful their book is going
(06:34):
to be to strangers who havenever met them.
But it happens every single timeand we are here for you to make
that happen.
Today, I asked, really beggedand cyber stocked.
One of my favorite people in thedigital world who I listened to
(06:56):
his podcast religiously.
Sometimes I'll listen to anepisode two or three times and
then stop and take notes of whatI'm supposed to do.
And even then.
Sometimes, I still have to breakit down more.
Today, Rich Brooks has agreed tocome and sprinkle his wisdom so
that we can all get better.
(07:17):
Rich is a digital marketing pro.
He's a long time agency founderup in Portland, Maine, which is
so idyllic and gorgeous.
And he's the guy behind theAgents of Change podcast, which
we will put all of this in theshow notes, so you'll be able to
click on it and go directly tohis podcast, which you should
(07:39):
subscribe to right away.
In fact, just pause this and goand subscribe to that and then
come back.
Okay, done.
He's been in the game since theearly days when God was a boy
and dirt was new, just like mewhen before caller, ID probably
I think I might be older thanRich.
(07:59):
But in this episode he'sbreaking down for us what's
working now and what to leavebehind, including some existing
beliefs about technology thatyou can also leave behind.
And some myths that might beholding you back.
So, let's get into it.
Welcome, Rich.
I'm so happy that you're hereand that you're going to help us
(08:22):
get smarter.
Rich (08:23):
Well, Allison, that was a very kind introduction and I
hope I live up to the hype.
Allison (08:29):
Well, I don't know about I think it's all true and
I think it's important even thisis probably a good learning
moment for you listener,'cause Iknow you're driving and you're
thinking Allison says, everybodyis big poo.
And it's true.
No one can actually see howimpressive they are unless you
(08:49):
ask somebody else.
And so, yes, perhaps I said kindthings, but all true things
because you are a big effingdeal.
Rich (08:58):
I've been doing it for a while.
You say that coming up 28 years,hereon.
I've seen a few things.
Yeah.
Allison (09:07):
Well, I'm so happy that we are able to come together and
take what the expertise and thebest methods that you're seeing
out there and translate them tohelp experts in their field who
are not agency owners, and theyare not usually coaches, and
(09:27):
they're usually starting fromscratch.
They're running an emergencydepartment at a hospital or
maybe they are teaching at auniversity or they head up HR at
a corporation.
They don't have a website.
Rich (09:43):
Right.
Allison (09:43):
They're starting from scratch.
But you know what they alsodon't have patience to become a
freaking expert in all thesethings.
When I left corporate, Americatwo weeks before Covid, which
that's a story I'll tell onanother episode.
I thought, oh, I'm stillcapable, I was capable because
(10:05):
anytime I needed something, Iwould turn to my PR agency of
200 people.
And say, you know what?
Would be great is if we had awebsite that said this, and it
would be like, poof, magic.
It would be there.
And now that's it's not true.
And so, when it comes tostarting out, establishing
(10:26):
yourself, what's a mistake yousee people make when it comes to
establishing their digital homebase so that they could be
marketers.
I already told you what mymistake was.
I deleted everything,
Rich (10:43):
So, I think of the biggest things is the assumption that
social media is gonna be enough.
I'm a big believer, andobviously, I run a digital
agency that builds websites, soI'm biased, right?
But I do think that there needsto be a digital space that you
own.
Where if you're building yourpresence on Facebook, or
LinkedIn, or forbid X, those arevery temporary things.
(11:06):
You're basically building yourhouse on borrowed land.
And there's nothing wrong ofusing those tools, and I'm sure
a lot of the listeners herewould benefit from really coming
up with a strategy and executingon that strategy.
And I'm happy to talk about thattoo.
You need a domain.
You need a website with a domainthat you own and start building
that up and using social mediaand other marketing tactics that
(11:28):
we can discuss to drive trafficto that website.
So that you can build your list,so that you can win over fans,
and so that you can build itkind of communication that you
were talking about earlier,Allison.
Allison (11:40):
I think that you're so right.
It is the first step becausethere's this prevalent
complaint, let's say.
That I'm sharing things, but mysocial is just not growing.
Correct?
You are posting things among thepeople you are already connected
to who are not the audience foryour book or for your message,
(12:06):
or for your co.
They are peers, friends, andfamily.
So you gotta lower yourexpectations on your friends or
your critique partner, engagingin your content and sharing it.
Because first of all, who caresif they share it, if they're not
your audience, the people theyshare it with are also not going
(12:28):
to be your audience.
So, that's number one.
And number two, no matter whatyou're posting, the algorithm
only shows your social contentto what's the percentage now.
Rich (12:41):
Well, if it's a business, it's less than one percent.
So, if have a hundred fans,you're lucky if one person is
actually gonna be fed thatcontent.
Which is different than if theygo and they seek you out.
If they seek out your Facebookpage, your Instagram account,
obviously they're gonna seethat.
But as far as actually seeingyour content on Facebook, which
is the toughest audience.
(13:01):
That's obviously problematic.
You cannot rely on organic.
The exception being, if you arenot using a business page and
you're just using your personalprofile, which is absolutely
acceptable that's a way that youcould actually get more
engagement.
But again, there are limitationsto the personal profiles as
well, and you may not wannashare what's going on in your
(13:22):
author life with all yourfriends and family.
So, that's something else tokeep in mind.
Allison (13:28):
Very, very true.
Usually, when people hear, now Ihave to build an email list,
they think they're being sneaky.
I don't know exactly why.
But they think, wait, I'm goingto collect things and people,
you're not sneaking right?
Rich (13:47):
No, you're asking permission.
Allison (13:49):
Right?
You're asking permission andpeople are leaning forward.
And saying, gosh, I really wannastay up to date on what you're
doing.
Rich, I get all your emails.
I don't think that you've stolenmy email.
When I don't get them, everyonce in a while they'll end up
in a different folder.
I go.
I know.
You really do have to go andwhitelist them and over and over
(14:10):
again and tell Gmail or Hotmail,cut it out.
Do it this way.
But I have to go look for it,right?
And that because I leanedforward, I asked for it.
I want all that wisdom deliveredto me in a way that is easy for
me.
'cause if I didn't sign up foryour emails, I would have to go
search out.
(14:32):
The content that you're puttinginto the world.
And I love that you curate yourtips and methods and send me an
email.
I know it's not directly to dearAllison, this is only for you,
but it feels like it.
And that way I don't have to gochase down your breadcrumbs
everywhere.
(14:52):
And I like that's available, butI do think that it's a mistake
for people to think how manyemails should I send?
I get this question all thetime, even yesterday, several
times.
How many emails should I send?
What's the is once a month couldbe.
And then they always say,'causeI hate getting those emails.
(15:15):
What do you say to that?
Rich (15:17):
Well,
Allison (15:17):
I
Rich (15:17):
would say, never less than once a month.
I think if you're sending outemails less than once a month,
people forget that they're onyour list.
And I know for me personally,when I see an email come in,
that's a subscription email, andI don't remember signing up for
this.
I hit the spam button prettyquickly.
And I think a lot of people havebeen trained to do that.
So, I think staying in front ofthe people is better.
(15:39):
And the magic words in marketingis, it depends, right?
So, it depends what you'retrying to do with your list,
with your book, with yourcareer.
If you're doing something maybein the non-fiction area where
you may be helping people withtheir A DHD or with their
finances or with theirrelationships.
There's probably ongoingcontent, new news stories come
(16:01):
out, new research comes out thatbeyond the book, you wanna stay
in front of these people.
You wanna develop somethingmaybe'cause you want those
keynote presentations, maybebecause you've got another book
coming in you.
You've got or you've got coursesthat you wanna sell as part of
this whole thing.
So it really does depend on whatyour goals are.
And if you have things like anew launch coming out, then
you're probably gonna wanna sendmore often.
(16:23):
Some people, depending on theirindustry, their niche can get
away with weekly or even dailyemails if you can create that
much content.
I don't wanna put pressure onyou.
Once a month is fine, if that'sall you can get out there, but
I'm sure you have a lot toshare.
My dad has written probably 13,15 books at this point, some by
himself, some with others.
And he sends out a monthlynewsletter on a specific topic
(16:45):
that's usually aroundresilience, which is his claim
to fame, and he does a lot ofclinical research.
So there's always interestingthings that he can share with an
audience that will help them,either their parents or their
teachers or their employers.
Help them with those kind ofcategories.
So the short answer is, it doesdepend never less than once a
month.
And just try and put yourself inyour audience's shoes.
(17:07):
What do they wanna learn about?
How can you help them with theirjourney?
And that's the kind of contentthat you should be sharing.
Allison (17:15):
I love this, I love learning about your dad and his
topic is resilience.
That's awesome, really.
But it also made me think he'ssending something out, you said
once a month, but he's alsosending a newsletter versus an
email, can you d do youdelineate those?
Rich (17:35):
I don't really, his email is a standalone email, although
I think we trained him toultimately post the entire
article.
It's really an article.
Allison (17:44):
Okay.
Rich (17:45):
I mean, If you printed this out, it's five to eight
pages each time.
So
Allison (17:48):
Oh, okay.
Rich (17:48):
That's what he's writing on a monthly basis.
And then the newsletter has somethings about some upcoming
speeches he might have, or maybehe was just on a podcast or a
radio show or a TV show that areavailable online.
So, we do it for him, but we'lllink to those for him kind of a
thing.
Other people, depending on whatthe topic is, it might be a very
brief email.
Example, my podcast, I send outan email every week to let
(18:10):
people know what the topic is.
Sometimes there's some otherpromotional things if I've got
an upcoming webinar or whatever.
Those tend to be short andpithy.
I just tease up what theinterview's gonna be about.
I've been trying to include aphoto of my life so people get
to know me a little bit better.
And so that's probably more onwhat some people might think of
like as an email versus maybe anemail newsletter.
(18:31):
I think that it's like a grayarea on when one becomes
something or the other.
Allison (18:37):
I think what I'm picturing too is that your
father knows who his audienceis.
Rich (18:43):
Yes.
Allison (18:43):
If I received a five to eight page article, I better
really be looking for that.
Otherwise, sometimes you justhave to scroll through and go,
oh yeah, I got the big points.
So, he must really understandwhat people are looking for and
the people who sign up for that.
Rich (19:04):
I would never tell they should write a monthly article
or a monthly email that canprint out at eight pages.
That's ridiculous.
And yet he has a very engagedaudience.
And you mentioned earlier thatpeople will email you.
My dad gets hundreds of emailsfrom these and he responds to
each one.
He's crazy.
Whatever.
It's not like he has all thetime, but he takes it very
(19:24):
seriously.
So, again it depends on what youare looking to do and this is
how he wants to share hisknowledge with the world.
He's got a lot of research, he'sgot a lot of opinions and uh, he
wants to put it out there.
And so, that's kind of how heserves his audience.
Allison (19:37):
And at least he is giving like a really big chunk.
The mistake I see people make isthat they want to only send one
email.
And then they pack a bunch oflike a bunch of news and here's
my take on this and here are the15 places I'm going to be.
(19:57):
And it becomes a patchwork of somuch information that it's too
much all at once.
But they think they're doingtheir reader a solid because
they've only sent one email.
And what you've done is thrown aton of crazy at people.
It's too much.
Rich (20:19):
I think some of that content that you just described,
and there's no one partsolution, some of the content
you described might be bettersocial post.
There's something that happenedin the news.
And I would also consider itlike, how am I positioning
myself?
How do I want to be seen?
And I want to be consistenthere.
So, if I've written a book aboutmanaging stress and there's
obviously a lot of things thatwould induce stress these days I
(20:40):
might social media discusssomething that's in the news and
talk about how somebody mightmanage the stress comes news
stories like this one as anexample.
So, that might be a better causefor something that's in social
media.
The other nice thing aboutsocial media if you've built up
the audiences that we've talkedabout, is you might see that
something you posted got a lotmore engagement and there was a
(21:01):
lot more interest around it.
Okay, now you know, this isactually a pain point for your
audience.
So, now maybe that does becomean article on your website or
the next chapter in your book oran email that goes out to
everybody.
There's ways can use socialmedia almost as a testing ground
to see what to that audienceyou're trying to nurture and
serve.
Allison (21:19):
So true.
A big reminder for me toactually go back in and look at
my analytics in LinkedIn moreoften too, to find out what
people like.
Rich (21:29):
Well, it's interesting that we, just to talk about this
for a second.
So, recently I put on a webinarabout the practical uses for AI.
And we had a signup that youknow, we just have a generic
signup.
Not generic, but we have asignup default that we use and
then we customize it.
And I went through the process'cause I hadn't done it in a
while.
And as I'm filling it out, afterI finished, I actually, there's
(21:50):
a place that says, whatquestions would you like
answered?
And I wrote into it like tonguein cheek.
Does anybody actually fill outthis form?
And we had like about 150 peopleor 180 people.
I forget the exact number whosigned up for this.
And John on my team said,actually, we get quite a few
people and there's some greatquestions in there.
So, I ended up going into itjust today.
I you know, sorted everything'cause it's in a spreadsheet.
(22:13):
I sorted and I pulled out allthe questions.
I dropped it into chat GPT.
And I said, can you summarizethese questions for me and maybe
help me come up with some ideasabout future webinars or future
blog posts or other types ofcontent that we might create
that would help my audience byanswering these kind of
questions.
So, that was just an interestingway of using ai.
Pulling from the audience.
(22:34):
Yes, I could have read througheach one of those questions and
I could have thought aboutdifferent answers.
But this was a quick way tosummarize this stuff and also
generate not the content'cause Idon't like using AI to write for
me, that's just who I am.
But to kind of like frame thingsfor me so I could get my mind
thinking creatively about how doI help somebody solve that
problem?
Allison (22:52):
I freaking love that.
I'm gonna totally steal thatabout.
Like stealing with pride.
You know, that idea of you'reregistering, people are
registering for your event for areason.
And they really need like anopen-ended, like what are you
really struggling with?
What questions do you wanna makesure I answer?
(23:15):
Genius.
I'm doing it.
Rich (23:17):
Absolutely.
I'm looking at the book in yourbackground, A DHD for Smart Ass
Women.
And I'm like, if I was that Iwas that person and I was
putting on webinars things, ordoing other things.
I'd be asking open endedquestion, like that what are you
really struggling with, when itcomes to your ADHD?
And I may have things I've neverconsidered that are real pain
points for my audience, and nowI'm getting all that great data
(23:39):
and I know how to serve thembetter.
Allison (23:41):
That is indeed, yes.
That book actually is structuredbased on the questions that
people ask the author, TracyOtsuka.
Because you wouldn't think ofit, but high achieving women who
have adult onset, A DHD.
They're often leaders and thenthey have a setback at work
(24:03):
because their perception islike, oh, she's becoming
flighty.
No, she's not.
She has so many ideas that sheneeds to be in a different role.
Because that's how that sameidea informed that structure,
but not using ai.
So, that would've been a goodone.
That was before.
Rich (24:23):
I just use AI get to get things done a little bit
quicker.
It's great that she's alreadydone that.
She's done.
the work.
I would just say when she writesher next book, she could
basically save some time and putit towards other places where
she can use her creativity andthat value.
That's kind of how I look at AIthese days.
Allison (24:39):
I listened to your latest episode with Dan Sanchez.
And of course, I'm on my secondlisten now'cause I was like,
what?
Blowing my mind.
And we'll link in the show notesto that episode?
Can you talk about one bigchange you've seen recently in
(24:59):
digital marketing and how it'simproving things for folks?
Rich (25:06):
In terms of artificial intelligence specifically, or?
Allison (25:09):
Well, yeah.
Artificial intelligence well,let's start with that.
But I was even thinking thatpeople used to go to events and
hand out business cards.
And now, you can create a QRcode, make it your screen saver
on your phone.
And it can go directly to yourscheduler or to your website or
(25:32):
your LinkedIn profile.
Because in the olden days, youwould come back from an event.
And have a stack of cards andthen have to email everybody or
go to LinkedIn and search forthem.
And that now that happens at theevent while you're standing
(25:53):
there in real time.
Rich (25:55):
Yes, although I will put in a plug for old school
marketing and networking becauseit is a typical these days and
very often we can gain attentionby not going with all the recent
trends and instead doingsomething.
Like if I get a business cardthese days and I still have my
business cards, even post covid,and I hand them out.
Because they're really welldesigned and they're really nice
(26:18):
stock.
And people remember that.
And as a design firm, that'spart of what we offer.
Like that to me, makes adifference and it makes a
statement.
But I do agree that you know,obviously things are to change.
And as we look at like what'sworking right now, I would say
that a lot of things are movingto video.
(26:38):
Which not everybody, especiallypeople who might be authors or
have written a book and tryingto promote it may not feel
comfortable getting on video.
But it is a powerful tool andthere's no two ways about it.
If you do feel comfortabletalking about it.
I know that my daughters oftenget their book reading
recommendations through TikTokthese days.
And you may be rolling your eyesas you listen to this.
(26:59):
You may be sticking your fingerdown your throat.
It doesn't matter.
And you may not be writing tothat audience.
But the bottom line is there isan audience on TikTok and on
these other platforms.
That want to hear your message,that want to hear your story
that are struggling withwhatever it is.
And taking some of the ideasthat you might have put up to in
a written social media post orin an email.
(27:22):
And explaining them via video isnot a bad thing, and you don't
have to hire anybody to do this.
This is something you can dowith the tools that you already
have at your disposal.
You take a quick video on youriPhone or Android and you upload
it to TikTok or reels, which isfrom Facebook and Instagram.
And you can really start tobuild a relationship.
(27:42):
A digital relationship, at leastwith your audience because they
get to know you.
In many cases, they want to knowmore about you.
You have to decide how muchyou're gonna let them in.
But when we make a connectionwith a creator, and that's
really what you are, is you're acreator.
It makes their creation evenmore important to us.
It resonates at an even deeperlevel.
And it's not a author example,for years if I was gonna buy a
(28:07):
piece of jewelry, I would nevergo to the mall jewelry store.
I would go to a place in townthat featured local artists and
they would often have a cardthat would explain, how the
artist came up with the idea.
And what their training was andwhat inspired them.
And then, when I gave this pieceof jewelry as a gift, I could
tell that story and it added somuch context to that gift.
(28:27):
I think we can do the same thingnow easier using digital
marketing.
So, whether you're writingfiction or nonfiction, if you're
sharing some of your creativejourney with people, I think it
feels like they own a little bitmore.
They're part of the process.
And they're much more likely towant to keep on hearing from you
(28:47):
and buying from you.
Allison (28:49):
We have to break that down'cause that was pure
freaking genius.
The thing that I wanna point outtoo is that, on TikTok has book
talk.
There are book talkers outthere, just like on Instagram.
We have these influencers outthere.
But also before your book comesout or even before you get a
(29:11):
book deal, you can be so muchmore efficient just using your
phone recording a question andan answer.
And putting it on TikTok orYouTube.
And you're generating thecontent without having to be at
(29:31):
your computer.
You could do it while you'rewalking, you know, walking the
dog or in the car at carpool.
People have seen my videos,which I do a lot of times
sitting at carpool or waitingfor my daughter to get out of
some kind of sports practice,which we spend hours at every
(29:52):
week.
And that's where I do that.
There are people my clients likeDr.
Mara Einstein, who just wrote,hoodwinked, which is how brands
now use the same tactics ascults.
Yikes.
After she got her book deal,there's a time between the
(30:13):
signing of the deal to when thebook comes out and she said, I'm
gonna start a TikTok.
And I was like, oh, that'sfreaking awesome.
Now, she's, I don't know, closeto a hundred thousand followers,
and that was just two years ago.
She's answering questions andaddressing things like, why is
my, eighth grader being marketedto by colleges.
(30:37):
Or why does everybody need tobuy that, like shoe whitener for
white shoes, and why is it out?
So, she's addressing thesethings and she's getting
requests for speakingengagements.
Cold calling her through peoplewho are finding her on TikTok.
So, that is a genius.
(30:58):
And she doesn't have to sit outand write at a laptop like
people used to think they had togo into a cave or a cabin in the
woods.
And go and take a sabbatical.
And then, write.
Now, if your mind is going, youcan turn on your phone and you
are carrying a TV studio withyou.
Nobody needs it to be perfectlighting or perfect makeup or
(31:21):
the right whatever.
Be real and do your thing andshare your knowledge.
Yes, that was so good.
And that you can turn all ofthat into social or and be
timely.
Especially, if something popsup.
Rich, what is a popular tacticthat's not working anymore?
Rich (31:45):
Anything to do with spamming, whether it's spamming
emails, whether it's spammingcontent to get into the search
engines.
I think those are things like,it used to be when I first
started.
I could write a blog post and itwould get onto the front page of
Google for its specific searchterms I was going after in no
time and just stay there.
But then, as brands started tounderstand SEO better, it became
(32:07):
a much more competitivemarketplace.
Google changed.
Now, you've got the AI overviewsall these problems.
So it is just everything is alot tougher these days.
That's one thing I want toexpress to people, that it's not
gonna be an overnight success.
When I started in 1997, it was alot easier to make a big splash
because people were not on theweb as much and there wasn't as
(32:29):
much competition.
Where now it is, the inboxes arefull and the social media feeds
are full.
The things that aren't workingis using the things that were so
successful a few years ago.
I just had a conversation with aclient of mine.
He is a robust blogger.
He blogs basically once a weekon a very niche topic.
I won't say what it is rightnow, but it's you know, it's
(32:50):
something that is, he was justcrushing it at the search
engines.
And for his specific topic, hewas always, coming up in the top
few results.
Google shifted and now his topictends to be something that pulls
up shopping results, e-commerceresults, and he has basically
disappeared from that.
He wants things to go back theway they were.
(33:11):
But they don't.
So, I think you just have to payattention to what you're
actually seeing out there andwhat's working.
As far as I'm concerned, itreally just is, it's not that
one thing isn't necessarilyworking outside of, like I said,
just trying to generate contentto rank well or generate content
just to get seen in social.
I think those things are not aseffective as they used to be.
And I would say that it's notabout, unless your book is meant
(33:34):
to be read by everybody on theplanet.
That shouldn't be your goal foran audience either.
And you can be very successfulwith a small email list, with a
small social media following.
As long as it's the rightfollowing and the right
audience.
So, you're not gonna beat theinternet on volume.
You as an individual cannotcreate the kind of content that
(33:58):
these media publishers can dowhere they have people hired
specifically to write SEOcontent or specifically to run
the best Google Ads.
It's just impossible for asingle person to make that kind
of impact anymore.
But what you can do is beat theinternet on quality or on
perspective.
So, I think really honing yourmessage and really figuring out
(34:19):
what makes you stand out andyour results resonate with a
certain audience.
That's where you should beputting your time and effort.
Because I don't think you canyou know, spray and pray as we
used to say.
I think you really have to beconscientious about who you're
trying to reach and how you needto serve them.
I hope that was an answer thatworked for you, Allison.
Allison (34:39):
Everything you do is magic, Rich.
I mean, come on.
I think you are the bee's kneesand I'm really honored that
you're here.
Rich (34:49):
Allison, all you ever have to do is ask.
Allison (34:51):
Oh, come on.
Thanks.
The thing is, and what I feelcalled to do is to help people
who are already experts insomething share their wisdom.
It's knowledge until you shareit and then it's wisdom.
So, the problem is that a lot ofpeople who are experts in their
(35:15):
field are busy being experts.
And they don't make the decisionearly enough to expand their
reach and help more people'causethey're already big wigs amongst
the people who know them.
The 200 people they know andthey're already keynoting
industry association events.
(35:39):
But all they're doing ispreaching helping the choir.
And really what we want is, tosell at a concert venue.
I wanna help people who shouldbe well known outside of their
industry, break down thebarriers and maybe the
self-imposed obstacles to do itfaster and easier.
(36:02):
And you are helping, me, dothat.
So, I feel like we're on thesame wavelength.
Rich (36:08):
And I think for those people if somebody is finding
themselves in that situation andwondering how to break out of
the 200 people who already knowthem.
The first question I would askmyself, is my message right now
going to resonate with anybodyoutside of this smaller room?
Because we do sometimes have tochange the way we talk.
I'm gonna talk to, we have aweekly marketing meeting here at
(36:29):
Flight and I get you know, fiveor six of my employees in the
room and we brainstorm and it'ssuper nerd.
You know, we nerd out overanalytics and stuff like that.
That's not the message that mostof my audience wants to hear, at
least not right at thebeginning.
They just wanna know, how come Ican't find myself on Google?
How come nobody's buying from mywebsite?
Or how can I use AI in mymarketing?
When I talk to that largeraudience, my message has to
(36:51):
shift because it's not gonnaresonate with them.
You have to go meet people wherethey are.
So, if you are in that placewhere you are the top dog in the
room of 200, but nobody outsidethat room who knows who you are,
then you have to figure out howcan you take your knowledge and
turn it into wisdom to use yourvernacular.
By changing the message so thatit adds value to the people
(37:14):
outside that room.
And that's a difficult thing fora lot of us to do because we are
experts in what we do and weknow how to talk to the people
in the smaller room.
But if you wanna be in thatconcert hall, then you have to
really understand the painpoints of the people who are
gonna go to that concert hall.
Allison (37:31):
So freaking true.
And that's why like you said,you start with, what questions
are people asking?
No one's ever asking.
Can you tell me the method youuse to improve your AI output?
All people usually come with aproblem.
I can't do this, or I'm havingtrouble doing that.
It's not up to them to figureout the solution or what they
(37:53):
need.
If they knew what that was,they'd freaking do it.
So, yes, always start with wherepeople are.
Okay.
I'm gonna pivot because we lovegetting book recommendations
from guests.
And opening doors to fiction,nonfiction, anything.
(38:13):
What's a book you love rightnow?
Rich (38:16):
Alright.
So, there are quite a few that Iwas thinking of.
But I would say that the onethat I'm reading right now is
book three in a new series.
The series, the first book iscalled The Gatekeeper.
And it's Des Limerick is themain character.
And basically, he was in thearmed forces and he can open any
gate, whether it's physical ordigital.
He can keep it open for as longas his team needs him to, and he
(38:38):
can close it and make surenobody else gets through it like
that's his superpower.
Which sounds like such a randomthing, but the books are so well
written and Dez is probably themost charismatic protagonist.
I've just about ever read, and Ijust, I love these books.
I'm on the third book right now.
It came out recently, it'scalled Chain Reaction, but
gatekeepers, where people shouldstart if they love, you know, if
(39:01):
you like reacher, if you likeorphan X, which is another
series I love.
If you like those kind of likepeople who have some sort of,
they're human, but they've gotsome special skill that just
makes them rise above the rest.
This is a great series for you.
Allison (39:14):
I love that.
I read all of the Vince Flynnbooks back to back, like all 22
of them.
And then, sadly he died at Idunno, book 18.
And then, they brought insomebody else to continue the
series.
Boy, I love a series.
I could go through them forsure.
Thank you for that.
Okay, Rich, bring it home.
(39:36):
Before we part, what's one thingyou wanna leave people with?
Rich (39:41):
Well, I had an idea, but I feel from today's conversation
that I want to say somethingdifferent.
So, I would say that the pieceof advice that I'd want people
to take away from this is, youreally first need to decide
where you want to go with allthis.
And I said a lot of things, youcould do this, you could do
this.
It depends.
And that's true.
So, I think the first thing youneed to think about is if you
are in that room where you'rethe top dog, so to speak, of 200
(40:03):
and you wanna get outside thatroom, is you really have to
learn what those people outsidethe room need from you.
And then create the content thatanswers their question.
Like we talked about in, in manydifferent ways is not dumbing
down your content, but insteadapplying it for needs outside of
that room.
And that's really where I'dstart.
And sometimes that comes fromasking questions of the people
(40:25):
outside of that smaller room andgetting that feedback.
So, that would probably be whereI'd start if I really wanted to
more time to my books and tohelping people through my
writing.
Allison (40:36):
Wise stuff from Rich Brooks, which I never call you
Rich.
I always call you Rich Brooks.
Thank you so much, Rich Brooks.
Where can people reach you, findyou, listen to you?
Rich (40:47):
If you like podcasts and if you're curious about learning
more about digital marketing,definitely check out the Agents
of Change.
That's my weekly podcast.
Been doing it for over a decade.
We just put episode 577 to bed.
So, definitely been doing thatfor a while.
And if you want to connect withme, I'm always happy to answer
questions.
I am the Rich Brooks on everyplatform, but I'm most active on
LinkedIn just because it's theonly one that's not pissing me
(41:11):
off right now.
Allison (41:12):
Hooray, for LinkedIn.
Me too.
LinkedIn is my play place.
This is fantastic.
Thank you so much, Rich.
For those listening and for youin Carpool, here's what I want
you to do.
Listen to this again, maybe readthrough the transcript, which is
on your phone.
I know you're in carpool.
(41:34):
And then, subscribe to the showso it always gets delivered to
you because you know that we'rehere to help.
And then do this one more thing.
Share it with someone who needsit.
Information is not useful unlessit's shared.
I am saying ask for what youneed and share what you know.
(41:54):
Now, you know this, so share it.
You know somebody who's tryingto figure out their website or
trying to go bigger or planningtheir book launch or wants to
move into the next phase oftheir career.
Let's get this done and let'sget it done together.
I will be here all the time nextweek, the week after.
(42:18):
Send me your questions and youknow I'm here for you.
In the meantime, you are a bigeffing deal.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com