Does LinkedIn feel like a corporate maze or worse, a place where everyone’s shouting but no one’s listening?
Allison Lane is joined by visibility and personal branding expert Kate Paine to unpack how authors can turn their LinkedIn presence into a powerful personal brand without chasing the algorithm, faking expertise, or posting bland corporate content.
Kate shares what works from optimizing your profile to making short-form video your visibility secret weapon. If you want to attract readers, media, and publishers without becoming a social media robot, this episode is your roadmap.
What You’ll Learn:
- How to craft a keyword-rich LinkedIn headline that helps you show up in search
- What to post (and what to stop posting) to grow your visibility as an author
- Why short-form video is the secret weapon for author branding on LinkedIn
Resources Mentioned:
- Kate Paine’s Website: https://standingoutonline.com/
- Connect with Kate Paine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katepaine/
- Book Reco: Wild Dark Shore: A Novel by Charlotte McConaghy: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250827951
Timestamps:
- 01:45 – Why most authors are invisible on LinkedIn
- 08:12 – The exact formula for writing a standout headline
- 14:39 – The 3 content pillars every author should use
- 26:20 – Why short-form video is booming on LinkedIn
- 33:47 – What NOT to do in LinkedIn groups
- 42:50 – The personal story tip that builds connection fast
If you enjoyed today’s episode, please take a minute to rate and review Author’s Edge. It helps more brilliant authors like you find the show and gives us the fuel to keep delivering strategic episodes like this one. And don’t forget to share this episode with a fellow author whose LinkedIn profile needs a glow-up.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kate (00:00):
You need to know how you want to position yourself for
(00:02):
the industry expertise that youhave in your industry.
So, whether you are anentrepreneur or whether you are
in the corporate world or thejob world everybody has a
personal brand.
And so, what I say isessentially your personal brand
equals your reputation.
And your reputation is made upof your values, your integrity,
your expertise and experience,and even your influence.
Allison (00:49):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge and I am your
host, Allison Lane.
I am here as your literarySherpa letting you know that
visibility and discoverabilityand that dreaded word platform,
are available to you, and youdon't need to wait, and you
don't need to hope that peopleshare your post in hopes that
(01:13):
suddenly your social platformwill go viral and suddenly
you'll have 10,000 or 50,000followers.
That's not how things work.
We have to be deliberate aboutall of our growth and about our
strategy, so we know where we'regoing.
And if you've ever shared yourLinkedIn profile thinking, I
(01:34):
hope that people follow me.
You are inviting them tosomething that's super generic
follow me on LinkedIn.
People don't know what they'regoing to get.
When you say something likethat, it's like saying, give me
a call or let me know if youneed anything.
It is an empty request, an emptyoffer.
So, I know that I'm underscoringthe problem is that nobody knows
(01:58):
what to post if you arewondering, but what do I post or
I haven't been posting because Idon't want to seem like I'm too
much, or I think too much ofmyself.
You don't want to sound likeeverybody else or you afraid of,
first of all, you're a grownup,so you don't have to be afraid.
(02:18):
But you are uncertain howsharing a message that's maybe
outside of your corporate role,what people will think.
There's a way for you to feelreal and actually be real and be
respected.
The whole gamut.
Now, Kate Paine is here to tellus exactly how to do that
(02:40):
because she is helpedentrepreneurs and thought
leaders and authors find theirstory so that they know what to
be posting in a way that buildstheir visibility, which all
comes back to them.
You.
If you are not, you can't justput out messages and not own
(03:01):
them.
And that leads to a dreadedmarketing jargon, your personal
brand, which people hate that.
But it is, it's like what do youstand for?
What are you going to beposting?
If it's all different all thetime, nobody's going to know
what to lean in for.
So, you get to decide, andthat's the hardest thing.
(03:24):
Kate, please tell us how peoplecan figure out what their
personal brand is and why isthat so hard?
Kate (03:34):
It's a great question, Allison.
When you think about yourpersonal brand, I'm going to
invite your listeners to sort ofreframe this a little bit.
So the personal brand is athing, and I'll answer that part
in the question.
But when you are presentingyourself on a channel like
LinkedIn, by way of yourLinkedIn personal profile, we're
talking personal profile here,not company page.
You need to understand what youstand for.
You need to know how you want toposition yourself for the
(03:57):
industry expertise that you havein your industry.
So, whether you are anentrepreneur or whether you are
in the corporate world or thejob world everybody has a
personal brand.
And so, what I say isessentially your personal brand
equals your reputation.
And your reputation is made upof your values, your integrity,
your expertise and experience,and even your influence.
(04:18):
So, when you think about allthose things and you look in the
mirror a different way to seethat about yourself.
Then you start to realize peoplecome to me for this skillset
that I have.
People see me as a go-toresource for this knowledge that
I have about this topic.
And those are the kinds ofthings that actually define your
personal brand.
But you also want to show thehuman side of you because people
(04:41):
connect with people.
We hear this all the time.
People connect, want to dobusiness with people, not logos,
right?
So, in this day and age with AIand all of the noise on social
media, when you take the time,and this does take some time,
when you take the time to reallyoptimize your profile and
personalize it a bit, and from apersonal standpoint aligned with
what you do, you're not justpulling personal things out of
(05:04):
the air.
It needs to be in alignment.
Then, you are setting yourselfup for success.
You're differentiating yourselffrom the competition, so to
speak, or how other people dothings on LinkedIn.
So, understanding how you wantto position yourself for the
knowledge you want to share.
And understanding your personalbrand is really important as you
tackle, like optimizing yourprofile.
Allison (05:24):
Okay, let's dig into that.
Okay.
Because in the olden days ofsocial media, your profile was
either super boring, likemarketing manager at cookie
cutter.
Yeah, nobody wants to know whatyour job title is.
Right.
Keep it to yourself.
Right.
Or it was something ridiculouslike human storyteller, and what
(05:46):
is that?
It was just made up like brandambassador.
What does that mean to me?
Total bologna.
Plus it would be a list of yourinterests.
Like coffee lover.
Yeah.
Into daffodils.
But this is not a datingprofile.
And also that's a terribledating profile.
So, now what should people beputting at the very least?
Kate (06:11):
In their headline, in their
Allison (06:12):
profile, so that their profile stands out.
Kate (06:15):
Okay.
So, at the top of your LinkedInpersonal profile, there's your
name field, and then under thatis where a lot of people just
put their job title.
It's called LinkedIn, calls itthe headline field.
The headline, and you have 220characters for that.
So, you actually have somepretty decent digital real
estate there.
So one thing you want to reallypay attention to for that
headline is you don'tnecessarily put your job title.
Think about like you've got todo some research into what are
(06:37):
your industry keywords for thework that you do.
So for example, for me, on myprofile, I don't put.
CEO and founder of standing outonline, I put LinkedIn profile
coach or LinkedIn profileoptimization.
So, if someone goes online toGoogle or LinkedIn search,
searching for someone like you,if they don't have your name,
you want to make it more likelyfor you to show up in a targeted
(06:59):
search result, not a genericone.
So if I just said.
LinkedIn marketing, no one'sgoing to search for that because
they know they're going to get agazillion results.
So LinkedIn profile optimizationis more targeted.
So think about that for what youdo.
And like offline, make a list ofa few keywords that describe the
work that you do that areindustry friendly.
Then go test them on Google.
(07:20):
Test them in ai.
If you use chat, GPT and thencreate a headline that tells a
mini story.
This is specific to LinkedIn.
So, put in the stuff that youdo, put in the help that you, an
outcome that you provide.
And then if you want to, this isone place you can put something
a little quirky in.
Like I have paddleboard fanaticand it's just one little thing
so that because then I'mdifferent.
(07:43):
But I'm also showing a littlepersonality and that little
quirky thing you put could be anicebreaker to a conversation.
Like it could be, oh, I love topaddleboard too.
If they reach out to you fordiscovery call or whatever.
Allison (07:53):
It shows that you're right, a real person.
Kate (07:56):
Right?
So it's not the coffee.
I love daffodils.
I'm also a paddleboard fan.
Keep this professional and throwin a little personality.
It's like you want to beprofessional with some
personality.
It's not fluff.
There's a difference.
So the headline's reallyimportant.
How try to aim for at leasthaving two or three tested
industry keywords to make itmore likely for you to show up.
(08:16):
And then in the rest of yourprofile sections, like the,
about the experience.
Make sure that you bring in someof those industry keywords to
into the narrative because thealgorithm recognizes that as
well.
So you want to make sure you'resprinkling some of those
keywords, those industrykeywords in there, but you want
it to still come across in anorganic way.
You don't just keyword stuff.
(08:37):
LinkedIn hates that.
People used to just put allthese little sort of keyword
terms at the end of their aboutsection.
And now you want to incorporatethem into the narrative so that
it reads smoothly.
Allison (08:49):
I think people used to think that LinkedIn, and
probably people still do.
LinkedIn is not your digitalresume.
Correct.
It's like a terrible way toreally use LinkedIn, although
most people do.
So if you,
Kate (09:04):
I want you to see it as a digital footprint.
Yes.
See this as a digital footprintor a digital handshake even.
There's a friend of mine who'sbeen in the LinkedIn world a
long time Vivica von Rosen.
She's not doing the LinkedInstuff anymore, but she coined
this great phrase, be aresource, not a resume by way of
your LinkedIn profile.
And I agree with it a hundredpercent.
Yes, you want to put out whatyou know how to do, but if you
(09:26):
come across like a bio or like aresume, that's generic and
that's what everybody's doing.
because they don't know anybetter.
So, there's a way that you canshow love to your profile and
come across in a way that ishelpful.
I always say you want it to beall about you, but it's not all
about you.
For example, you know the aboutsection, for example, who you
are, what you do, and an outcomeyou provide.
Those are the three part, that'smy three part recipe.
(09:48):
End with here's how I help,here's an outcome so that people
are like, oh, that's what's init for me.
And not instead of just blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
Allison (09:57):
Right?
I don't want you have the blahwants to do the like mental
gymnastics to be like, so theydo this.
So what does that mean to me?
What if you know how people canbenefit?
Don't make them do the.
The math Exactly to interpretthat, because no one actually,
you're also trying to build arelationship ever does it.
Kate (10:16):
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but you're
also trying to build aconnection slash relationship.
Not, you might want the LinkedInconnection, but you want to
build the connection as arelationship.
That is just good old fashionedmarketing and it hasn't changed.
It's just so many people thinkthey've got to do everything
fast and quick and AI and AI hasits place but you still have to
like, show your personality.
(10:36):
People really want to see thehuman side of you as it relates
to the professional.
You know what I mean?
So, that's part of why thepersonal brand matters.
Allison (10:45):
And it's not you could be a marketing manager
somewhere, or assistant orassociate professor, but you are
also maybe have a podcast.
So that automatically means thatyour headline doesn't need to
say associate professor.
It could be just relevant to thetopic.
(11:08):
Yeah.
But really gets boring when it'sjust you can incorporate your
background sales optimizationugh.
Kate (11:15):
Yeah.
You can incorporate yourbackground or your recurrent
work into your narrative.
But the thing is, people aregoing to scroll down to your
experience section.
So if you are an associateprofessor, there's going to be a
thing there.
The university you're at withthese associate, and then you
put the blurb in about you as aprofessor.
That's the nitty gritty of whatyou do.
Your about section should be the30,000 foot view of who you are,
what you do, how you help tointerest people into wanting to
(11:37):
go into the rest of your profileand learn more about you.
Allison (11:40):
What's your advice about what to post?
Way too many people are postingeither generic, corporate
propaganda.
You know, X company, we areproud to say that we are now
serving this client.
That's a huge drop.
But oftentimes people don't postbecause they don't know exactly
(12:01):
how to add value.
And they're not given from theiremployer or their association a
clarity on how they could reallybecome like a standout.
And so, this is why you have ajob to help people.
So what's the first step inhelping them figure out What
(12:23):
should I be posting about?
Kate (12:24):
Okay.
It's a great question.
This is probably one of the mostasked questions I get and about
LinkedIn.
The reason people are never surewhat to post on LinkedIn is
because they're not sure whatthe vibe is.
You know what I mean?
They know what to do on Facebookor Instagram and they know what
to do on TikTok or whateverother channels they're using.
Like they know how to do that.
But when they go to LinkedIn,they know it's a little
different because it'sprofessional or it's business.
(12:45):
And even though that's true, youcan still create content that is
helpful to your readers, to thepeople that follow you or who
are connected to you.
So, first of all, just giveyourself a little grace on that
and then go, okay, so if I'vebeen doing the boring old stuff,
I really shouldn't be doing theboring old stuff.
That doesn't mean that the topicyou want to talk about has to be
(13:06):
presented in a boring way.
Maybe you talk about that topicin a short form video because
short form video is now the topcontent on LinkedIn right now,
this year.
So a real type of thing.
So, if you're already producingsome of this type of content
somewhere, repurpose it, butwith a different caption over on
LinkedIn, tie it into theindustry or the on trend point
(13:30):
that's in the news right nowabout that topic or whatever.
Tie it all together and showcaseit in a way that maybe is a
little unexpected.
And so that the other thing istoo, that I tell people too, is
when you're thinking about yourcontent strategy for LinkedIn,
figure out what your three orfour content pillars are.
So, it might be educational,like meaning informing people
(13:50):
but not in a dry way.
And then there's a whole ton ofcontent topics that fall into
that.
Maybe another pillar con ofcontent is behind the scenes.
People love behind the scenes,even in a work environment, show
us what's going on in thebackground.
People love to see that.
And it's unexpected.
Maybe it's other people'scontent.
I call that OPC.
So, where I follow people in anindustry and I really like their
(14:13):
blog or I like their post orwhatever, and I make a point of
sharing their content with mythought leadership.
Very little of what you post onLinkedIn should be promotional
about you like 10%.
So, if you only post when you'regoing to have a webinar or
you're going to a trade show, oryou're going to a networking
event, that's the only timeyou're posting.
People are just going to swipeon by.
(14:33):
So think about how you can comeacross with your own
personality, do a video whereyou interview someone else.
I use this kind of content likeyou're doing Allison.
I post this stuff with mypodcast and that's some of my
content.
So yeah, people love to listento that stuff.
Allison (14:50):
Even right now, I'm going to take a picture of us
like, and that is going to be,yeah.
Candid.
Yes.
Nobody needs it to be superpolished.
Nope.
People know that this picturethat you're going to end up
seeing on Yeah.
LinkedIn.
It's going to be like a littlebit turned a little because I
don't care.
Yeah.
I think that you are amazing andyou are helping people
(15:11):
understand that this is anopportunity and also all your
expertise that you're keeping toyourself helps No one.
Kate (15:18):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Why hide your light?
And then people will say to me,when I just said like what I
just said, but I don't want tocome across as braggy or salesy.
And I'm like, you know what?
I get it.
I don't either.
So, that's why if you interviewsomeone else or you share other
people's content with yourthought leadership, your
opinion, and it doesn't have tobe a mean thing, and it doesn't
have to be like the best thing,like just share.
(15:40):
Like I really liked it whenAllison mentioned, da Da.
I really resonated that becauseshare what about it you like,
not just great article or greatshow.
So engage people a little bit.
That's really where the kind ofthe meat is.
And if you not be afraid to showsome personality, that's what
people are going to connectwith.
And the thing is about that isit makes people remember you and
(16:03):
it makes you unforgettable.
And I don't mean like the song,but it's because you're doing
something a little different.
I think people look at whateverybody else is doing on
LinkedIn and they think that'sthe way it should be done.
And that's not necessarily thecase.
I will give you an example.
People like a financial advisorfor example they have to be
careful for how they come acrossbecause they're in a regulated
(16:24):
industry.
And they have to watch.
What they say because of thewhole SEC regulations and all of
that.
But most other people inindustries can still be, you can
be your professional self withsome personality, with some
flare.
Allison (16:38):
So, let's talk about a specific people you follow who
are sharing with their voice us,but they're avoiding the cringe.
Like whether it's in marketingor I think people forget that
you can look outside yourindustry too.
Exactly.
Exactly.
(16:58):
By all means.
Yes.
So who are some of the people, Ihate to say thought leaders
because that's not a job title.
I don't love the term thoughtleaders, but it does illustrate
a point.
But who are the standout voicesthat you're seeing that you
consistently love their content?
Kate (17:16):
Okay.
There's one of them is MarkSchaeffer, S-C-H-A-E-F-E-R.
He's in the digital marketingworld.
He's written a bunch of books.
One of my favorite books that hewrote is called Known and it's
about your personal brand.
And I've met Mark a few times,so I've actually met him at Rich
Brooks Agents of Change eventwhen he was a keynote speaker.
But it's follow him on all thechannels.
(17:36):
Sign up for his newsletter, hise-newsletter, his e-newsletters,
subscription.
It's just full jam packed, fullof great stuff.
And he's a very forward thinkingguy.
He sees things and trends beforethey happen.
He has a lot of reallyinteresting thoughts about ai.
The other person I follow from aLinkedIn standpoint is a
gentleman from the Netherlands.
His name is Richard Vander Blom.
(17:57):
VAN space, DER space BLOM,Richard Vander Blom.
And while he's Danish, he speaksEnglish well.
But he is a real data geek.
And he does these annual notsurveys, but reports on the
LinkedIn algorithm based onresearch he's done.
Because let's face it, nochannel will ever reveal its
algorithm because it's theirsecret sauce.
(18:19):
But there's people who can goand test and he tests over a six
month period for all kinds ofthings and then puts out a
report every year.
So I follow him.
Do I agree with everything hesays?
No, I don't.
But I really respect and admirewhat he learns about the
algorithm.
And then I can go and test it onmy own.
And I usually find Yep, that'strue.
(18:40):
It's just, you've got to be opento other people, even from a
contrarian place.
Like you don't always have to besomebody's, yes, man.
And if you want to be contrarianand show your leadership, your
thought leadership on something,on a topic in a post, right.
Just be respectful.
You don't have to be like, oh,this person doesn't know what
they're talking about you know.
That's happening on all theother channels on LinkedIn.
You could be like, while Ireally appreciate what this
(19:01):
person said about this and this,there's one point here that I
disagree with because when I dothis, I do it this way.
And that doesn't, I'm notbashing the person.
I'm actually sharing my opinion.
I'm being myself, and I'mshowing another way to look at
something.
So to me, that's a helpful wayof presenting an opinion without
just dissing somebody.
Allison (19:22):
Yeah.
I want to come back to the videofor a second.
So the short video, there areall kinds of formats, all kinds
of video on LinkedIn.
Yes.
So it used to be that the videohad to be landscape, horizontal.
Yeah.
Landscape.
And now can you give us a littlebit about the shape and then
captions?
No captions, and then headline.
(19:42):
No headline.
Kate (19:45):
So if you're doing a short form video, like a reel, so most
people know what a reel is onany channel.
You can use those on LinkedIn.
You upload it, it's not likeFacebook where you can go on
your phone and record and thenput it off at a Facebook Live.
It's not like that.
So you can still record your.
Self in a vertical video formaton your phone.
And then maybe you want to putit into one of those apps where
(20:07):
make sure there's captions.
You should absolutely havecaptions on LinkedIn because a
lot of people look at LinkedInwith their audio off.
because a lot of people are inan office setting or something
like that.
So having some kind of a thingat the top.
No.
But keeping it about, 90 secondsis the length for Instagram.
So, if you have a short formvideo and you upload it as like
(20:29):
a movie file or an MP four, youcan actually have it be no
longer than 10 minutes.
I wouldn't suggest you do itshort form video called short
form video because it's undertwo minutes usually.
If you upload a native video,let's say like for your show
right here, Allison, you uploadthis, it's going to upload it in
this horizontal format.
In this interview format.
(20:49):
And that's going to be eitherit's together, if it's your
YouTube link, the length doesn'tmatter if you're posting the
YouTube link so that people cansee the whole show.
If you were just going to take alittle snippet of it, anytime
you upload a native video, likea native video file, it cannot
be longer than 10 minutes.
That's a LinkedIn thing.
Even if it's 10 minutes in onesecond, LinkedIn won't let you
(21:09):
upload it.
But putting links to a YouTubeor a Vimeo or website or
whatever like that, you don'thave to worry about the length
because it's a link.
Okay.
Did that answer your question?
Allison (21:21):
Yes.
Kate (21:21):
Okay.
Allison (21:22):
I've seen that the short form video on LinkedIn is
booming and I think people areinterested because what I think
I understand, and you need tocorrect me, is that LinkedIn is
showing your videos to peoplewho don't already follow you.
Correct.
Already connected.
And so that's the big challenge,is how do you actually grow?
Kate (21:43):
That is the big challenge.
It's hard to get eyes on yourcontent on LinkedIn.
And the one thing I like aboutLinkedIn, the company is that
they still have human eyes oncontent.
Yes, they have an algorithm.
Yes, they have some otherthings, but they really, there's
truly, there's like editors whopay attention to content.
So the number one thing thatLinkedIn now looks for, this
came out in Richard VanderBaum's recent report, is you
(22:07):
need to have compelling content.
Long form content does well onLinkedIn.
I always set recommend though.
Don't just do long form content,do short, medium, and long, mix
it up.
That's just mixing it up isalways a good strategy.
Text posts, video posts, imageposts, mix it up.
Don't just do one type and dothe same.
Allison (22:27):
So how do you grow, so you're saying a variety of
posts.
Kate (22:30):
So having compelling, unique content is one thing.
Now this is the hard part.
What LinkedIn's algorithm looksfor is that if people start to
engage with your content withinthe first one to two hours of
publishing that post, they seethat as something that's
interested and they'll serve itup more even to other people who
don't connect with you.
But it's hard.
Like how do you know they'regoing to connect?
(22:51):
So, then what ended up happeningthe last few years, and this
goes against LinkedIn's terms ofservice, and they shut people
down for this, people startedforming what were called pods.
So, they would have a pod with15 people in it, in LinkedIn, a
private message and say, Hey, Ijust posted about this.
Please go in and comment rightnow.
Yeah, that's gaming LinkedIn'ssystem.
LinkedIn caught on.
(23:12):
And now if you do a pod or theyfind out if they can see that's
happening, they will actuallyshut your profile down for good
without warning.
So don't be a part of a pod.
Now, if I was to reach out toyou, Allison, like I did
something about a book for afriend and I thought you'd be
interested, I might shoot you amessage and say, Hey Allison my
friend just did this really coolpost on this book, which I think
(23:33):
you'd you might want to take alook at it and maybe you want to
comment.
That's just let's help lift thisperson up by getting more eyes
on their stuff.
So, you can't predict how peopleare going to react, or when
they're going to react orcomment on your stuff within one
to two hours.
So that's where I go back to thefoundational piece.
Be thoughtful and compellingabout your content.
(23:54):
Try to do things differentlythan you have been.
If what you've been doing hasbeen eh, and you're not getting
much, change it up.
Figure out a new way to do it.
Write about it differently.
Take a different angle.
Tell stories.
Real stories.
Use many case studies.
Use an experience you had with aclient.
You talk about a client outcome,a success story.
When you use stories in yourcontent about things that happen
(24:18):
with you, to you, by you, thenyou're not being salesy because
you're sharing a story andeverybody loves stories.
So those are the kinds ofdifferent ways to really get
eyes on your content.
If you think you want to try togo viral on LinkedIn, good luck
with that.
That should never be your goalanyway.
Your goal for your contentshould be to be of service, be
of help, be of value.
(24:38):
If you're going for the viralvideo, that just doesn't really
happen on LinkedIn.
And if it does, it's not becausesomebody planned it.
You can't plan a viral video.
Allison (24:47):
Yeah.
And even when a video goesviral, that doesn't necessarily
convert to Exactly.
Does that make the cashregistering and all it means is
that you got views.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It doesn't even convert toengagement.
Kate (25:00):
Think about the long game.
You're building relationships,you're getting people to trust
you.
And I've been doing this a longtime.
Whenever I put out a webinar andI usually do like a webinar a
quarter, I don't overloadpeople.
My show up rate is amazingbecause people see me on a
consistent basis all the time.
I've built trust with thesepeople.
And they know if they come toone of my events.
(25:21):
I had a webinar yesterday and wekeep track of all the data on
the backend.
And when we can see through ourCRM, how many of my events over
the last four or five yearsthey've attended a lot.
And that's really like cool andunexpected, but that's happened
because I'm consistent and Idon't overdo it, but I also
don't hide.
So you just have to find agroove.
(25:42):
Do I make mistakes?
Absolutely.
Allison (25:44):
I love that tip about the quarterly webinar.
I love to, even when I'm doing aLinkedIn event I might also post
it on Eventbrite.
Yeah.
And on Facebook.
Absolutely.
because I want people to haveaccess to information that's
hard to figure out or hard tofind out.
And plus it's fun for me.
(26:07):
I love.
Kate (26:08):
You're amplifying your reach, Allison.
That's good.
Some people think that they haveto do all of the things and you
don't.
If you do push yourself a littlebit, do something maybe you
haven't done.
Try it, see if it works.
And it probably will work.
And if it does, it'll be like,okay, I'm good.
I'm going to do it here andhere.
Good.
Because if you don't do it atall, then you're not getting
your word out there.
Allison (26:27):
You're just lamenting.
Yep.
For sure.
Yep.
I spend almost all my time onLinkedIn and nothing is as
motivating and empowering asdeleting a social profile.
Which I had such joy doing inthe last year of it's just like
cutting off a dead limb.
Like If you know it's stillthere and it's still taking up
mind space, but you never go tothat social profile, then you
(26:50):
don't need it.
Let it go.
Exactly.
And then what's left is you getto focus on, which is so much
fun for me.
But I'm still in a lot of groupstell me how I can actually use
groups to really engage becauseI'm in a lot of them, but
sometimes I can see that a groupmight be ginormous, but it's all
(27:13):
promotional baloney.
Or it might be smaller, butpeople only share their like
problems, like there doesn't, sohow do you use groups to your
advantage?
Kate (27:27):
I'm wary of LinkedIn groups in general.
About six years ago or so.
The group experience up untilthen was phenomenal.
Yes.
You could have an admin, youcould have people control it,
and then all of a suddenLinkedIn changed its user
interface and they changed theentire group experience and
they've never gone back to it.
And what happened is a lot ofthe really healthy community
groups that were there allbailed because it was crickets
(27:49):
and they couldn't even be anadmin even though they were
technically an admin.
It just, everybody went away.
And then, what everybody did isthey went over to Facebook to
create Facebook groups becauseit was an easier experience we
always thought, that's such ashame.
Here we are all on LinkedIn.
LinkedIn used to have a greatgroup experience.
We all reached out to LinkedInand said, what the heck have you
done?
Then, they keep saying they'remaking it better and the group
(28:09):
experience is a little better.
But it's not what it used to be.
So, I am wary of groups.
I still belong to a few.
I don't think I ever even seecontent from them unless I
actively go seek it.
I'll tell you what I use groupsfor is for my community things.
So, if I'm teaching a groupprogram or a one-to-one on
something with LinkedIn, thenwith my group program, I will
(28:30):
create a group of the 10 peoplethat are in the community.
Okay.
And I will use it instead of aFacebook group or Slack, because
it's a short term group program.
So, we use the group experiencethere, and that works fine.
And if you want to invite morepeople, you can.
But I have different groups.
I create a vibe in a communitywith each one.
(28:50):
And I don't know if you've ever,I'm sure you've been in a group
program.
And then if somebody else comesin and somebody's new, it's not
that you don't like them, it'sjust you liked your little.
Group the way it was, and you'reright protective of it.
So whenever I start a new groupprogram, I start a new LinkedIn
group and yeah, maybe at somepoint after I've done these four
for a year, then maybe I'll say,Hey, do you guys want to come
into a larger group?
(29:10):
because you've all been throughthe course.
Now we can have this biggercommunity and I'll help in each
other.
So I've got a strategy with thegroup experience on LinkedIn.
Whenever I get invited to agroup.
It depends on who's inviting me.
Like if Rich Brooks or youreached out and you were doing a
group I'd joined because I knowyou.
You know what I mean?
And I respect you and I knowyour jam.
(29:31):
But most of the time I'd say Idon't accept them.
I don't even accept them all onFacebook.
I just, I'll never work.
Allison (29:36):
I don't think I ever see an invitation for a group on
LinkedIn.
Kate (29:40):
I do sometimes it shows up in the where you get your
invitation requests orconnection, investor newsletter
requests.
Sometimes I do.
It's just basically it's beencrickets and a lot of LinkedIn
experts used to say, don't evenbother with the group experience
there.
So, it's completely personal.
But I would just be more likereally like inner circle if
you're going to do a group thingversus a giant group where
(30:00):
you're trying to get hundredsand hundred people.
I just think a lot of people areshy away from the group's
experience on LinkedIn untilthey change it.
Back to how used to be.
Allison (30:09):
This is such good news because I cannot wait to go into
my LinkedIn profile.
I think I'm in over 200 groups.
Yeah.
Because as you accrue them, youdon't go back to see what's
there and feels good to cleanout that closet.
Kate (30:22):
And then I get some of the spam I get in my inbox.
It'll say, I look at the personsometimes if they're in my
industry, I'll take a look tosee who's acts.
But then I'll be like, we're infour groups together.
I'm like, I haven't done a darnthing in any of those groups.
And now I'm thinking going, nowyou're spamming people.
So I think a lot of peoplejoined groups or joined them
years ago thinking that theythen had the entree to just go
and spam people withinformation.
(30:42):
And that's what it's become.
So I'd be leery, do a littledigging for a couple minutes.
Use your filters, your personalfilters about is this person in
my industry, is this somethingthat could be helpful?
When's the last time somebodyposted in that group?
If it was like more than threeor six months ago, I'd steer
clear.
Yeah, there's no activity there.
Use your little personaljudgment on decisions.
But I'd say I don't want to sayacross the board, don't do it,
(31:04):
but just maybe use theexperience more judiciously.
Allison (31:08):
Mm-hmm.
Well, no, this is so, i'm soglad.
Listen, I've been on LinkedInand doing, like back when I was
leading PR for Unilever and allthe other sports bees and
Sodexo.
I was training the sales teamand the HR team of you want to
(31:29):
use LinkedIn as a sales tool,your profile needs to be
updated.
Exactly.
I mean, these are busy peopleand they never think to say oh,
if I'm going to invite peopleover to my house, maybe I'm
going to make sure that thefront door doesn't stick.
Kate (31:44):
Exactly.
And that the living room'sclean.
Allison (31:47):
And that I'm there when they arrive.
Yes.
That's the craziest thing is hitme up on LinkedIn and you never
go to LinkedIn.
No.
You have to be there to open thedoor and For sure.
And I would always say, bringyour laptop to the meeting.
We're all going to put ourpictures, we're going to have a
populated profile.
Yep, yep.
(32:07):
And here's how, here are somerules to posting for every one
post about the company.
You've got to have seven aboutsomething else.
Yes.
because you are of service.
Exactly.
Like what?
Don't be a selfish social user,right?
because and they never use theirbanner.
So what should people put intheir banner?
Kate (32:29):
In the banner that another great question.
So, if you whether you work fora company, like if you work in
a, like a upper levelmanagement, senior leadership
role or C level role.
And if you want to use yourpersonal profile as a flag for
the company that you represent,then maybe you want to use some
branding and create a backgroundbanner image just to look
professional.
Maybe you're in a picture doingsomething, working with a client
(32:51):
or something like that.
Then you might want to do that.
But also ask yourself, do Ireally want to be selling or
spotlighting the place I work?
So, if you want it to justpersonalize it, maybe if it's
that interesting little quirkything about you.
Like when I talked about meputting down paddleboard,
fanatic, then maybe if I wasworking in a corporation, maybe
(33:12):
I'd put an image of me,paddleboarding with dolphins
swimming around me or something,yeah.
And put some copy on it, createdin Canva, not just a picture,
put a quote up about somethingthat means something to you so
people can see your value.
And it's a little personality.
That's just one idea.
Not a lot of people would dothat, but that's one idea.
But if you own your own businessand or you are your own brand.
Then you absolutely want to makea branded background image.
(33:34):
And you can do this in Canva.
Use your logo, use a realpicture of you in real life
doing something.
Have it be different than thephoto in your profile photo.
And maybe put even though it'snot clickable, put your website
in there because anybody who'sbeyond a second level
connection, if they arrive onyour profile, they actually
can't see what you put in yourcontact info.
(33:54):
They can't see your email.
It's a new privacy thing thatLinkedIn's put in place.
So like, put a info at email inyour banner or a website so that
if, even though they can't clickon it, at least if they want to
try to find you, you've made ituser friendly for them to
discover you on offline, so tospeak.
Yeah, so think about, what thatlooks like and don't have it be
too busy.
Have it be clean.
(34:15):
Good photo.
Glance, bold text.
Yeah.
Limited text, but helpful.
Allison (34:22):
Okay.
I feel like I need to take yourcourse because it's even though
I've been telling people, thatlike cobbler's children run
barefoot everywhere, right?
Yes.
And I am constantly zing myprofile.
And then, even my headline.
Yep.
I'm my publishing expert, mybook coach, I'm an author coach,
(34:43):
and I'm like, you know what?
People don't search for thingsthat are super duper niche
specific.
They search for what theirproblem is or what they need.
Kate (34:53):
Let me ask you this, Allison.
When you say you're a bookcoach, what typically are the
types of books that you work onwith your clients?
What's your niche?
Allison (35:00):
Nonfiction and memoir.
Kate (35:02):
So I would put like nonfiction book coach in your
headline.
So book coach is generic.
Allison (35:09):
It is totally generic.
It's like saying editor ormanager.
It's so generic.
The thing is, I also work withnovelists on book launches.
So if you want a book deal, Ihave a book deal blueprint and
that includes how to pitch.
Well, like the agents and the
Kate (35:26):
You have to book proposals.
Allison (35:28):
Oh yeah.
Kate (35:28):
Yeah.
So that's something else youcould put in your headline.
Yeah.
Book proposal writer, somethinglike that.
You want to think of thesethings that people would search
for more niche because peopleare smart now.
People know, if they're going tolook up a certain type of ice
cream, oh, I had ice cream atthis restaurant.
They're not going to go intoGoogle and type in ice cream.
They're going to get a gazillionresults.
But if they had a certain flavorand they're not sure of the
(35:50):
brand, they're going to describeit in Google.
People know now that if theywant to get a more immediate
targeted search result, they'regoing to put in the keywords to
help them get to that point.
And that's exactly what I'msaying.
I'm not saying you need to gocrazy on this, and I don't mean
you but your listeners but bethoughtful about this.
Put a little time into doingsome industry keyword research
so that you are morediscoverable online.
Allison (36:11):
Yeah.
And then avoid keyword stuffing.
I used to include like bookproposal.
But most people I work with havenever heard of a book proposal.
They just want to know, how do Ifind a publisher?
So the key, the long tailkeyword is find a publisher.
Find an agent.
Yeah.
That's what people search.
Kate (36:29):
Put those in there, but in your narrative, in your about
section or in the experiencesection about you as a book
coach, that's where you canwrite organically, like
something that you read, like aparagraph about what you do that
way, and that's where it wouldnaturally occur.
But it also is you're narratingto the reader as you would in
real life.
And oh, by the way, bonus, ithappens to be a keyword or a
(36:50):
keyword phrase, or a long tailkeyword, so.
Allison (36:52):
Right.
This is a personal question, soI might actually edit this out,
so we never know, but because Ihelp experts get book deals, but
in terms of book launches, Ialso work with fiction writers.
Okay.
And all my clients become awardwinners and bestsellers.
It's just, this is the publicistin me is just, I know how to do
(37:13):
this.
Yes.
So I'm always struggling with,do I put nonfiction?
Do I not put, do I want to openit up?
Because then people willautomatically like remove
themselves, think oh, now Ihave, she doesn't do that.
She does.
Kate (37:30):
Yes.
So in your headline, I wouldpick two or three things that
you primarily want to be knownfor.
Then when you get down into likeyour about section or into the
narrative for your experiencesection, that's where you can
talk about, and not only do Iwork with people who want to do
memoirs and nonfiction, but Ialso work with people who are
novelists or fiction writers andbook launches.
(37:50):
And that's where you can talkabout the nitty gritty of what
else you do.
So, if anybody digs in deeper,so it's sometimes it's almost
like you want to say the one ortwo things that are going to get
people's attention and pull themin.
And then when they go down alittle further or they talk to
you in person.
Then you already know how you'regoing to talk about.
Whoa.
And I also do this, I alsoprovide this service.
Okay, so instead of having itall out there right off the bat.
(38:11):
It's like too much informationright front.
And then people can find it.
You can strategically place itin other places of your profile,
which is exactly how I workthings with my clients.
For example, there's a feature,there's a section you can add on
LinkedIn called publications.
There's publications.
So if you're a writer, you can,you could put whether you're a
blog writer or a newsletterwriter or book, an author, you
(38:32):
can have this like library andarchive of things in your
publications.
There's another section you canadd called projects and Projects
is more corporate oriented.
But what I did with projects,since I don't work in a
corporate setting, I took all ofmy speaking events and I've put
all my top names, speakingevents because it's a project.
But all of my stuff on myprojects are all the stages I've
(38:54):
spoken on virtual and online.
That's so
Allison (38:56):
cool.
Kate (38:56):
And then I have a little place to put a blurb.
So I strategically used it forthat.
And I've gotten speaking gigsbecause I've done that.
Even though in my experiencesection, I talk about myself as
a speaker.
I provide my speaker demo videoand my speaker one sheet.
So, I'm spreading out that stuffstrategically instead of just
saying I'm a speaker, hire me.
Allison (39:17):
Because there's no telling what someone's going to
land on.
Kate (39:19):
And you don't know where they're going to land.
Everybody assumes they're goingto read top to bottom, every
word people scan.
But that's why if your narrativeis different and you're using
things about yourself andshowing some personality and
using story that's going to makeyou memorable, and then people
are going to want to keepreading and learn more.
What else she got?
Allison (39:38):
Yeah.
I have a couple more questionsbecause I've been seeing on
LinkedIn these posts that areformatted, they're long form,
there are a lot of spacesbetween sentences.
They're very storytelling.
Yep.
And yet they somehow veryappropriately still lead to, and
(40:03):
if you want to work with me, andthey're super clever, cleverly
written, but generally thepeople who post those sort
always post that sort of thing.
Yeah.
And when I've looked at theformat and maybe shoved it into
ChatGPT and said, Hey, I have acustom GPT that writes like me
(40:24):
only with my words.
Yep.
But it just, it seems socounterintuitive to stop people
from their scrolls with thefirst line, like Jay Schwedelson
would say, in the first line youneed to say who this is for.
Because you can't use your firstline for throat clearing because
(40:45):
it won't stop people.
So when you see these types ofdifferent post structures, what
is your take on that long formstructure?
Kate (40:56):
As a former journalist, I still believe in a good lead.
So, I still think that yourfirst sentence should be
something that draws people in.
Then in the second graph, youcan always give it context or
something like that, but hookthem in.
Grab them in, captivate them.
So, I believe in that.
I do like the idea of shortparagraphs with a lot of white
space beyond the traditionalparagraph like we were taught in
(41:18):
school, and mostly because 65%of people look at LinkedIn on an
app.
And so, from a standpoint ofeasy ease to read, people don't
want to see dense, heavy text ina paragraph block.
They'll just scroll on by.
So that's the strategy behindwhy people are doing that.
And I do it too.
And so I do, sometimes I want toisolate a sentence because I
want to emphasize a point, andmaybe it's pithy, I pay
(41:41):
attention to that.
As far as calls to action at theend, the whole, what are your
thoughts?
Nobody does that anymore.
It's dated.
Don't ask that.
If you want to ask some kind ofa call to action, have it be
really pointed and interesting,that might be a real
conversation starter and do itevery now and then.
Don't put something, a; and ifyou want to work with me,
because you've got them and thenall of a sudden you're being
salesy.
(42:01):
There's ways to do it.
There's times to do it.
It's like you got to read theroom.
But don't make that a standardpractice in your regular
posting.
If you want to provide value,leave them with a thought that
makes them go makes them think.
Maybe it creates conversation,but don't ask.
Nobody does it anymore.
It's just dry.
Allison (42:20):
Yeah.
It's really, it's a superturnoff.
Kate (42:22):
Yeah.
Allison (42:23):
It's like saying when people reach out to you and say
Hey, let's catch up.
What's going on with you?
That's not a catch up.
Now it's my responsibility togive you a digital catch up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It feels like homework.
Kate (42:35):
I know, right.
Allison (42:36):
I don't love that.
I don't answer those, I justsay, if you want to catch up,
here's a link and let's actuallycatch up and we'll chat.
Or when do you want to talk forthe love of Pete?
Okay, let's pivot because I wantto know what you're reading.
Kate (42:49):
Okay, great.
Alright, so I just finished themost phenomenal book.
It's called Wild Dark Shore byCharlotte McConaghy, I think is
she's an Australian author.
And it was an incredible book.
It's a novel, it takes place onan island between like Australia
and the Antarctic.
(43:09):
And it's based on MacquarieIsland, but it's not Macquarie
Island.
And there's this family thatlives there that takes care of
the research center there.
Because what they do is they've,over the years, they have been
preserving seeds from all overso that if climate change makes
something go extinct, that'slike a seed bank and this,
that's a real thing.
(43:30):
Yes.
But it's about the father andhis children that live there and
the experiences they have.
And there's a lot of things thathappen.
And so it's a really greatfamilial story, the description
about the environment.
because it's rough.
Like on a warm, sunny day, itmight hit 30.
And the seas and the seals thatlive there.
And that's true on MacquarieIsland, there's a huge colony of
seals and penguins and they talkabout that.
(43:53):
So, it's just it's reallyinteresting.
It's environmental, it'sfamilial and the relationships
between all the, what goes onthere and everything.
It was just I couldn't put itdown.
Allison (44:03):
Oh, I'm going to get it.
We'll make sure that the link isin the show notes too.
Yes.
Kate (44:07):
Yep.
Wild Dark Shore, CharlotteMcConaghy, how she pronounced
it, but it's like the last, it'slike GHY ending, but she
pronounced the G.
Allison (44:15):
With a G okay.
We'll have a link to yourLinkedIn profile and even on
your LinkedIn profile, peoplecan book a chitchat with you,
right?
Kate (44:24):
Yeah.
I think it's going to be in theshow notes.
There should be a link to a 30minute free discovery call with
me.
So, if you want to talk aboutyour personal brand development
or your LinkedIn strategy orwhatever, I'm happy to talk to
you if you're interested inknowing how I might be able to
work with you.
If that's something you want totalk about, we can do that too,
but I'm happy to just answersome questions.
Allison (44:41):
Oh, awesome.
Okay.
All of that will be in the shownotes.
Now, before we call this podcastcomplete, what is one thing that
you want people to do today?
What can they do today tofinally feel confident about
showing up in LinkedIn?
Kate (44:58):
We talked about the importance of the keywords in
the headline, so I'd really showsome love to your headline.
The other thing I would inviteyou to think about is thinking
about your own personal story oryour slice of life story.
It's like your story nugget.
So, if you go over to my profileand you see how I write at the
very beginning, my firstsentence is I was an avid news
junkie in seventh grade, and Igo into how I wanted to be back
(45:20):
in the late eighties when I wasin college.
I wanted to be a femalebroadcast journalist.
They were few at the time.
So, I said I wanted to be thenext Diane Sawyer.
And then I want go into myexperience as an intern at CBS
News.
And then I segue into today.
Now, I'm a storyteller workingwith entrepreneurs who wanted
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So think about your little storynugget and how you can
incorporate that into the aboutsection of your profile and how
(45:43):
it can show a little bit aboutyou so people can make a
connection, but also ties intowhat you do now so that it's
relevant and aligned.
Allison (45:51):
That's such good advice.
I don't think that people thinkenough about sharing a little
bit about how you got there, butmaking sure that it ties in.
It has to tie in that it'srelevant, right.
Because people don't want achronological play by play.
Kate (46:06):
Nope.
they don't want the bio.
Your bio has its place forcertain things.
Your bio has a place for a bookbeing introduced on stage, but
in your LinkedIn profile, makeit count.
And also you have 2,600characters for the about
section.
It's approximately 500 wordsish.
Use all of that digital realestate.
LinkedIn keeps expanding it,which tells me they want you to
(46:26):
use all that digital realestate.
And the more you use, the morethey're going to serve you up.
So in search results.
Don't short take shortcuts onLinkedIn.
Allison (46:34):
All the things are there.
Yeah.
They really have.
So they spend so much timeputting, steps in place to share
what really works.
Yes.
And if you're not using all theoptions, then it's like you're
not putting gas in the tank.
Kate (46:52):
Exactly what the heck.
LinkedIn gives you a ton ofsections.
You can add the ones that arerelevant.
Don't just add them to add them,add the ones that are relevant.
But the more tools you takeadvantage of that they provide
you, the more they're going tosearch you, serve you up, and
search results because they cansee that you're utilizing the
features that they've provided.
If you just do the basic and youjust make a like two sentence
about section and call it a day,and you have your only job that
(47:13):
you've, in right now, and younever show nobody's going to see
anything there that adds value.
It's just going to be like,scroll on by.
Allison (47:21):
And your lack of 15 minute attention to your
LinkedIn profile is, it's reallyjust wasted opportunity because
you were a big effing deal.
Exactly.
No one's going to, it's no oneelse's job to figure out how
your expertise can relate andhelp more people.
Right.
It's on you.
Kate (47:41):
In this day and age, people search people.
So if they meet you, and I don'tmean like in a stocky, creepy
way.
People meet you somehow, someway they read something you've
written, they see a comment youmade on LinkedIn.
They might go and Google you.
And if you have a LinkedInprofile, even if you have a
website like I do with mybusiness, your LinkedIn profile
shows up first on the first pageof Google.
And so, that might be the firstplace, the first impression
(48:04):
people get of you.
So if they go to your LinkedInprofile and it's like
practically non-existent, thatthey may never want to reach out
to you or hire you or have acall with you or whatever.
So, think about that LinkedInpresence that you have as your
digital footprint.
Have it be a compliment to yourwebsite, have it be a compliment
to your corporate career, andreally pay attention to it.
It is vital in this day and age.
(48:25):
And I don't work for LinkedIn,just so you know.
Disclaimer.
Allison (48:29):
That's right.
Disclaimer.
Listen, everything you've sharedis just such a masterclass.
And I think only touch thesurface.
So, I am urging you on your wayto work and you're listening to
this make a note before you getout of your car in the parking
garage or wherever you'reputting your car to take this
(48:51):
action.
It only benefits you to win andyour company or your university.
It's a win-win.
They want you to be a standout.
But there's no, this is how youdo it department at your
company.
Unfortunately you nailed it.
They're just hoping that someonewill know how to.
(49:16):
Navigate this and now you do.
And you can reach out to Kate,which you should.
Kate (49:22):
Thank you.
Allison (49:22):
And please share this.
Share it with someone who needsit.
Share it with someone who, theirLinkedIn profile needs some
love.
You don't have to tell them,listen, you're really sucking a
lemon here.
But they'll get the gist.
And you will have done a good inthe world.
Yes.
Not for nothing.
Leave a review too.
(49:43):
It helps the algorithm know thatpeople need this.
And this is a joy for me becauseas a career marketer and
publicist, I just feel like I'msitting on gold.
And even today, Kate, you sharedthings that I didn't know.
Good.
After this, I'm going to go andjudge my profile.
Good.
Good.
Alright.
Until next time, I want you toknow you have an edge as an
(50:07):
author, you can grow yourvisibility.
You can start today.
You can put your humility asidebecause it is boring us to
death.
And you can step into thespotlight where you belong
because no one is going to comeand drag you out of the shadows.
It's up to you.
And we'll see you next week.
I can't wait to find out whatyou do next.
You need to know how you want to position yourself for
(00:02):
the industry expertise that youhave in your industry.
So, whether you are anentrepreneur or whether you are
in the corporate world or thejob world everybody has a
personal brand.
And so, what I say isessentially your personal brand
equals your reputation.
And your reputation is made upof your values, your integrity,
your expertise and experience,and even your influence.
Allison (00:49):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge and I am your
host, Allison Lane.
I am here as your literarySherpa letting you know that
visibility and discoverabilityand that dreaded word platform,
are available to you, and youdon't need to wait, and you
don't need to hope that peopleshare your post in hopes that
(01:13):
suddenly your social platformwill go viral and suddenly
you'll have 10,000 or 50,000followers.
That's not how things work.
We have to be deliberate aboutall of our growth and about our
strategy, so we know where we'regoing.
And if you've ever shared yourLinkedIn profile thinking, I
(01:34):
hope that people follow me.
You are inviting them tosomething that's super generic
follow me on LinkedIn.
People don't know what they'regoing to get.
When you say something likethat, it's like saying, give me
a call or let me know if youneed anything.
It is an empty request, an emptyoffer.
So, I know that I'm underscoringthe problem is that nobody knows
(01:58):
what to post if you arewondering, but what do I post or
I haven't been posting because Idon't want to seem like I'm too
much, or I think too much ofmyself.
You don't want to sound likeeverybody else or you afraid of,
first of all, you're a grownup,so you don't have to be afraid.
(02:18):
But you are uncertain howsharing a message that's maybe
outside of your corporate role,what people will think.
There's a way for you to feelreal and actually be real and be
respected.
The whole gamut.
Now, Kate Paine is here to tellus exactly how to do that
(02:40):
because she is helpedentrepreneurs and thought
leaders and authors find theirstory so that they know what to
be posting in a way that buildstheir visibility, which all
comes back to them.
You.
If you are not, you can't justput out messages and not own
(03:01):
them.
And that leads to a dreadedmarketing jargon, your personal
brand, which people hate that.
But it is, it's like what do youstand for?
What are you going to beposting?
If it's all different all thetime, nobody's going to know
what to lean in for.
So, you get to decide, andthat's the hardest thing.
(03:24):
Kate, please tell us how peoplecan figure out what their
personal brand is and why isthat so hard?
Kate (03:34):
It's a great question, Allison.
When you think about yourpersonal brand, I'm going to
invite your listeners to sort ofreframe this a little bit.
So the personal brand is athing, and I'll answer that part
in the question.
But when you are presentingyourself on a channel like
LinkedIn, by way of yourLinkedIn personal profile, we're
talking personal profile here,not company page.
You need to understand what youstand for.
You need to know how you want toposition yourself for the
(03:57):
industry expertise that you havein your industry.
So, whether you are anentrepreneur or whether you are
in the corporate world or thejob world everybody has a
personal brand.
And so, what I say isessentially your personal brand
equals your reputation.
And your reputation is made upof your values, your integrity,
your expertise and experience,and even your influence.
(04:18):
So, when you think about allthose things and you look in the
mirror a different way to seethat about yourself.
Then you start to realize peoplecome to me for this skillset
that I have.
People see me as a go-toresource for this knowledge that
I have about this topic.
And those are the kinds ofthings that actually define your
personal brand.
But you also want to show thehuman side of you because people
(04:41):
connect with people.
We hear this all the time.
People connect, want to dobusiness with people, not logos,
right?
So, in this day and age with AIand all of the noise on social
media, when you take the time,and this does take some time,
when you take the time to reallyoptimize your profile and
personalize it a bit, and from apersonal standpoint aligned with
what you do, you're not justpulling personal things out of
(05:04):
the air.
It needs to be in alignment.
Then, you are setting yourselfup for success.
You're differentiating yourselffrom the competition, so to
speak, or how other people dothings on LinkedIn.
So, understanding how you wantto position yourself for the
knowledge you want to share.
And understanding your personalbrand is really important as you
tackle, like optimizing yourprofile.
Allison (05:24):
Okay, let's dig into that.
Okay.
Because in the olden days ofsocial media, your profile was
either super boring, likemarketing manager at cookie
cutter.
Yeah, nobody wants to know whatyour job title is.
Right.
Keep it to yourself.
Right.
Or it was something ridiculouslike human storyteller, and what
(05:46):
is that?
It was just made up like brandambassador.
What does that mean to me?
Total bologna.
Plus it would be a list of yourinterests.
Like coffee lover.
Yeah.
Into daffodils.
But this is not a datingprofile.
And also that's a terribledating profile.
So, now what should people beputting at the very least?
Kate (06:11):
In their headline, in their
Allison (06:12):
profile, so that their profile stands out.
Kate (06:15):
Okay.
So, at the top of your LinkedInpersonal profile, there's your
name field, and then under thatis where a lot of people just
put their job title.
It's called LinkedIn, calls itthe headline field.
The headline, and you have 220characters for that.
So, you actually have somepretty decent digital real
estate there.
So one thing you want to reallypay attention to for that
headline is you don'tnecessarily put your job title.
Think about like you've got todo some research into what are
(06:37):
your industry keywords for thework that you do.
So for example, for me, on myprofile, I don't put.
CEO and founder of standing outonline, I put LinkedIn profile
coach or LinkedIn profileoptimization.
So, if someone goes online toGoogle or LinkedIn search,
searching for someone like you,if they don't have your name,
you want to make it more likelyfor you to show up in a targeted
(06:59):
search result, not a genericone.
So if I just said.
LinkedIn marketing, no one'sgoing to search for that because
they know they're going to get agazillion results.
So LinkedIn profile optimizationis more targeted.
So think about that for what youdo.
And like offline, make a list ofa few keywords that describe the
work that you do that areindustry friendly.
Then go test them on Google.
(07:20):
Test them in ai.
If you use chat, GPT and thencreate a headline that tells a
mini story.
This is specific to LinkedIn.
So, put in the stuff that youdo, put in the help that you, an
outcome that you provide.
And then if you want to, this isone place you can put something
a little quirky in.
Like I have paddleboard fanaticand it's just one little thing
so that because then I'mdifferent.
(07:43):
But I'm also showing a littlepersonality and that little
quirky thing you put could be anicebreaker to a conversation.
Like it could be, oh, I love topaddleboard too.
If they reach out to you fordiscovery call or whatever.
Allison (07:53):
It shows that you're right, a real person.
Kate (07:56):
Right?
So it's not the coffee.
I love daffodils.
I'm also a paddleboard fan.
Keep this professional and throwin a little personality.
It's like you want to beprofessional with some
personality.
It's not fluff.
There's a difference.
So the headline's reallyimportant.
How try to aim for at leasthaving two or three tested
industry keywords to make itmore likely for you to show up.
(08:16):
And then in the rest of yourprofile sections, like the,
about the experience.
Make sure that you bring in someof those industry keywords to
into the narrative because thealgorithm recognizes that as
well.
So you want to make sure you'resprinkling some of those
keywords, those industrykeywords in there, but you want
it to still come across in anorganic way.
You don't just keyword stuff.
(08:37):
LinkedIn hates that.
People used to just put allthese little sort of keyword
terms at the end of their aboutsection.
And now you want to incorporatethem into the narrative so that
it reads smoothly.
Allison (08:49):
I think people used to think that LinkedIn, and
probably people still do.
LinkedIn is not your digitalresume.
Correct.
It's like a terrible way toreally use LinkedIn, although
most people do.
So if you,
Kate (09:04):
I want you to see it as a digital footprint.
Yes.
See this as a digital footprintor a digital handshake even.
There's a friend of mine who'sbeen in the LinkedIn world a
long time Vivica von Rosen.
She's not doing the LinkedInstuff anymore, but she coined
this great phrase, be aresource, not a resume by way of
your LinkedIn profile.
And I agree with it a hundredpercent.
Yes, you want to put out whatyou know how to do, but if you
(09:26):
come across like a bio or like aresume, that's generic and
that's what everybody's doing.
because they don't know anybetter.
So, there's a way that you canshow love to your profile and
come across in a way that ishelpful.
I always say you want it to beall about you, but it's not all
about you.
For example, you know the aboutsection, for example, who you
are, what you do, and an outcomeyou provide.
Those are the three part, that'smy three part recipe.
(09:48):
End with here's how I help,here's an outcome so that people
are like, oh, that's what's init for me.
And not instead of just blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
Allison (09:57):
Right?
I don't want you have the blahwants to do the like mental
gymnastics to be like, so theydo this.
So what does that mean to me?
What if you know how people canbenefit?
Don't make them do the.
The math Exactly to interpretthat, because no one actually,
you're also trying to build arelationship ever does it.
Kate (10:16):
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but you're
also trying to build aconnection slash relationship.
Not, you might want the LinkedInconnection, but you want to
build the connection as arelationship.
That is just good old fashionedmarketing and it hasn't changed.
It's just so many people thinkthey've got to do everything
fast and quick and AI and AI hasits place but you still have to
like, show your personality.
(10:36):
People really want to see thehuman side of you as it relates
to the professional.
You know what I mean?
So, that's part of why thepersonal brand matters.
Allison (10:45):
And it's not you could be a marketing manager
somewhere, or assistant orassociate professor, but you are
also maybe have a podcast.
So that automatically means thatyour headline doesn't need to
say associate professor.
It could be just relevant to thetopic.
(11:08):
Yeah.
But really gets boring when it'sjust you can incorporate your
background sales optimizationugh.
Kate (11:15):
Yeah.
You can incorporate yourbackground or your recurrent
work into your narrative.
But the thing is, people aregoing to scroll down to your
experience section.
So if you are an associateprofessor, there's going to be a
thing there.
The university you're at withthese associate, and then you
put the blurb in about you as aprofessor.
That's the nitty gritty of whatyou do.
Your about section should be the30,000 foot view of who you are,
what you do, how you help tointerest people into wanting to
(11:37):
go into the rest of your profileand learn more about you.
Allison (11:40):
What's your advice about what to post?
Way too many people are postingeither generic, corporate
propaganda.
You know, X company, we areproud to say that we are now
serving this client.
That's a huge drop.
But oftentimes people don't postbecause they don't know exactly
(12:01):
how to add value.
And they're not given from theiremployer or their association a
clarity on how they could reallybecome like a standout.
And so, this is why you have ajob to help people.
So what's the first step inhelping them figure out What
(12:23):
should I be posting about?
Kate (12:24):
Okay.
It's a great question.
This is probably one of the mostasked questions I get and about
LinkedIn.
The reason people are never surewhat to post on LinkedIn is
because they're not sure whatthe vibe is.
You know what I mean?
They know what to do on Facebookor Instagram and they know what
to do on TikTok or whateverother channels they're using.
Like they know how to do that.
But when they go to LinkedIn,they know it's a little
different because it'sprofessional or it's business.
(12:45):
And even though that's true, youcan still create content that is
helpful to your readers, to thepeople that follow you or who
are connected to you.
So, first of all, just giveyourself a little grace on that
and then go, okay, so if I'vebeen doing the boring old stuff,
I really shouldn't be doing theboring old stuff.
That doesn't mean that the topicyou want to talk about has to be
(13:06):
presented in a boring way.
Maybe you talk about that topicin a short form video because
short form video is now the topcontent on LinkedIn right now,
this year.
So a real type of thing.
So, if you're already producingsome of this type of content
somewhere, repurpose it, butwith a different caption over on
LinkedIn, tie it into theindustry or the on trend point
(13:30):
that's in the news right nowabout that topic or whatever.
Tie it all together and showcaseit in a way that maybe is a
little unexpected.
And so that the other thing istoo, that I tell people too, is
when you're thinking about yourcontent strategy for LinkedIn,
figure out what your three orfour content pillars are.
So, it might be educational,like meaning informing people
(13:50):
but not in a dry way.
And then there's a whole ton ofcontent topics that fall into
that.
Maybe another pillar con ofcontent is behind the scenes.
People love behind the scenes,even in a work environment, show
us what's going on in thebackground.
People love to see that.
And it's unexpected.
Maybe it's other people'scontent.
I call that OPC.
So, where I follow people in anindustry and I really like their
(14:13):
blog or I like their post orwhatever, and I make a point of
sharing their content with mythought leadership.
Very little of what you post onLinkedIn should be promotional
about you like 10%.
So, if you only post when you'regoing to have a webinar or
you're going to a trade show, oryou're going to a networking
event, that's the only timeyou're posting.
People are just going to swipeon by.
(14:33):
So think about how you can comeacross with your own
personality, do a video whereyou interview someone else.
I use this kind of content likeyou're doing Allison.
I post this stuff with mypodcast and that's some of my
content.
So yeah, people love to listento that stuff.
Allison (14:50):
Even right now, I'm going to take a picture of us
like, and that is going to be,yeah.
Candid.
Yes.
Nobody needs it to be superpolished.
Nope.
People know that this picturethat you're going to end up
seeing on Yeah.
LinkedIn.
It's going to be like a littlebit turned a little because I
don't care.
Yeah.
I think that you are amazing andyou are helping people
(15:11):
understand that this is anopportunity and also all your
expertise that you're keeping toyourself helps No one.
Kate (15:18):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Why hide your light?
And then people will say to me,when I just said like what I
just said, but I don't want tocome across as braggy or salesy.
And I'm like, you know what?
I get it.
I don't either.
So, that's why if you interviewsomeone else or you share other
people's content with yourthought leadership, your
opinion, and it doesn't have tobe a mean thing, and it doesn't
have to be like the best thing,like just share.
(15:40):
Like I really liked it whenAllison mentioned, da Da.
I really resonated that becauseshare what about it you like,
not just great article or greatshow.
So engage people a little bit.
That's really where the kind ofthe meat is.
And if you not be afraid to showsome personality, that's what
people are going to connectwith.
And the thing is about that isit makes people remember you and
(16:03):
it makes you unforgettable.
And I don't mean like the song,but it's because you're doing
something a little different.
I think people look at whateverybody else is doing on
LinkedIn and they think that'sthe way it should be done.
And that's not necessarily thecase.
I will give you an example.
People like a financial advisorfor example they have to be
careful for how they come acrossbecause they're in a regulated
(16:24):
industry.
And they have to watch.
What they say because of thewhole SEC regulations and all of
that.
But most other people inindustries can still be, you can
be your professional self withsome personality, with some
flare.
Allison (16:38):
So, let's talk about a specific people you follow who
are sharing with their voice us,but they're avoiding the cringe.
Like whether it's in marketingor I think people forget that
you can look outside yourindustry too.
Exactly.
Exactly.
(16:58):
By all means.
Yes.
So who are some of the people, Ihate to say thought leaders
because that's not a job title.
I don't love the term thoughtleaders, but it does illustrate
a point.
But who are the standout voicesthat you're seeing that you
consistently love their content?
Kate (17:16):
Okay.
There's one of them is MarkSchaeffer, S-C-H-A-E-F-E-R.
He's in the digital marketingworld.
He's written a bunch of books.
One of my favorite books that hewrote is called Known and it's
about your personal brand.
And I've met Mark a few times,so I've actually met him at Rich
Brooks Agents of Change eventwhen he was a keynote speaker.
But it's follow him on all thechannels.
(17:36):
Sign up for his newsletter, hise-newsletter, his e-newsletters,
subscription.
It's just full jam packed, fullof great stuff.
And he's a very forward thinkingguy.
He sees things and trends beforethey happen.
He has a lot of reallyinteresting thoughts about ai.
The other person I follow from aLinkedIn standpoint is a
gentleman from the Netherlands.
His name is Richard Vander Blom.
(17:57):
VAN space, DER space BLOM,Richard Vander Blom.
And while he's Danish, he speaksEnglish well.
But he is a real data geek.
And he does these annual notsurveys, but reports on the
LinkedIn algorithm based onresearch he's done.
Because let's face it, nochannel will ever reveal its
algorithm because it's theirsecret sauce.
(18:19):
But there's people who can goand test and he tests over a six
month period for all kinds ofthings and then puts out a
report every year.
So I follow him.
Do I agree with everything hesays?
No, I don't.
But I really respect and admirewhat he learns about the
algorithm.
And then I can go and test it onmy own.
And I usually find Yep, that'strue.
(18:40):
It's just, you've got to be opento other people, even from a
contrarian place.
Like you don't always have to besomebody's, yes, man.
And if you want to be contrarianand show your leadership, your
thought leadership on something,on a topic in a post, right.
Just be respectful.
You don't have to be like, oh,this person doesn't know what
they're talking about you know.
That's happening on all theother channels on LinkedIn.
You could be like, while Ireally appreciate what this
(19:01):
person said about this and this,there's one point here that I
disagree with because when I dothis, I do it this way.
And that doesn't, I'm notbashing the person.
I'm actually sharing my opinion.
I'm being myself, and I'mshowing another way to look at
something.
So to me, that's a helpful wayof presenting an opinion without
just dissing somebody.
Allison (19:22):
Yeah.
I want to come back to the videofor a second.
So the short video, there areall kinds of formats, all kinds
of video on LinkedIn.
Yes.
So it used to be that the videohad to be landscape, horizontal.
Yeah.
Landscape.
And now can you give us a littlebit about the shape and then
captions?
No captions, and then headline.
(19:42):
No headline.
Kate (19:45):
So if you're doing a short form video, like a reel, so most
people know what a reel is onany channel.
You can use those on LinkedIn.
You upload it, it's not likeFacebook where you can go on
your phone and record and thenput it off at a Facebook Live.
It's not like that.
So you can still record your.
Self in a vertical video formaton your phone.
And then maybe you want to putit into one of those apps where
(20:07):
make sure there's captions.
You should absolutely havecaptions on LinkedIn because a
lot of people look at LinkedInwith their audio off.
because a lot of people are inan office setting or something
like that.
So having some kind of a thingat the top.
No.
But keeping it about, 90 secondsis the length for Instagram.
So, if you have a short formvideo and you upload it as like
(20:29):
a movie file or an MP four, youcan actually have it be no
longer than 10 minutes.
I wouldn't suggest you do itshort form video called short
form video because it's undertwo minutes usually.
If you upload a native video,let's say like for your show
right here, Allison, you uploadthis, it's going to upload it in
this horizontal format.
In this interview format.
(20:49):
And that's going to be eitherit's together, if it's your
YouTube link, the length doesn'tmatter if you're posting the
YouTube link so that people cansee the whole show.
If you were just going to take alittle snippet of it, anytime
you upload a native video, likea native video file, it cannot
be longer than 10 minutes.
That's a LinkedIn thing.
Even if it's 10 minutes in onesecond, LinkedIn won't let you
(21:09):
upload it.
But putting links to a YouTubeor a Vimeo or website or
whatever like that, you don'thave to worry about the length
because it's a link.
Okay.
Did that answer your question?
Allison (21:21):
Yes.
Kate (21:21):
Okay.
Allison (21:22):
I've seen that the short form video on LinkedIn is
booming and I think people areinterested because what I think
I understand, and you need tocorrect me, is that LinkedIn is
showing your videos to peoplewho don't already follow you.
Correct.
Already connected.
And so that's the big challenge,is how do you actually grow?
Kate (21:43):
That is the big challenge.
It's hard to get eyes on yourcontent on LinkedIn.
And the one thing I like aboutLinkedIn, the company is that
they still have human eyes oncontent.
Yes, they have an algorithm.
Yes, they have some otherthings, but they really, there's
truly, there's like editors whopay attention to content.
So the number one thing thatLinkedIn now looks for, this
came out in Richard VanderBaum's recent report, is you
(22:07):
need to have compelling content.
Long form content does well onLinkedIn.
I always set recommend though.
Don't just do long form content,do short, medium, and long, mix
it up.
That's just mixing it up isalways a good strategy.
Text posts, video posts, imageposts, mix it up.
Don't just do one type and dothe same.
Allison (22:27):
So how do you grow, so you're saying a variety of
posts.
Kate (22:30):
So having compelling, unique content is one thing.
Now this is the hard part.
What LinkedIn's algorithm looksfor is that if people start to
engage with your content withinthe first one to two hours of
publishing that post, they seethat as something that's
interested and they'll serve itup more even to other people who
don't connect with you.
But it's hard.
Like how do you know they'regoing to connect?
(22:51):
So, then what ended up happeningthe last few years, and this
goes against LinkedIn's terms ofservice, and they shut people
down for this, people startedforming what were called pods.
So, they would have a pod with15 people in it, in LinkedIn, a
private message and say, Hey, Ijust posted about this.
Please go in and comment rightnow.
Yeah, that's gaming LinkedIn'ssystem.
LinkedIn caught on.
(23:12):
And now if you do a pod or theyfind out if they can see that's
happening, they will actuallyshut your profile down for good
without warning.
So don't be a part of a pod.
Now, if I was to reach out toyou, Allison, like I did
something about a book for afriend and I thought you'd be
interested, I might shoot you amessage and say, Hey Allison my
friend just did this really coolpost on this book, which I think
(23:33):
you'd you might want to take alook at it and maybe you want to
comment.
That's just let's help lift thisperson up by getting more eyes
on their stuff.
So, you can't predict how peopleare going to react, or when
they're going to react orcomment on your stuff within one
to two hours.
So that's where I go back to thefoundational piece.
Be thoughtful and compellingabout your content.
(23:54):
Try to do things differentlythan you have been.
If what you've been doing hasbeen eh, and you're not getting
much, change it up.
Figure out a new way to do it.
Write about it differently.
Take a different angle.
Tell stories.
Real stories.
Use many case studies.
Use an experience you had with aclient.
You talk about a client outcome,a success story.
When you use stories in yourcontent about things that happen
(24:18):
with you, to you, by you, thenyou're not being salesy because
you're sharing a story andeverybody loves stories.
So those are the kinds ofdifferent ways to really get
eyes on your content.
If you think you want to try togo viral on LinkedIn, good luck
with that.
That should never be your goalanyway.
Your goal for your contentshould be to be of service, be
of help, be of value.
(24:38):
If you're going for the viralvideo, that just doesn't really
happen on LinkedIn.
And if it does, it's not becausesomebody planned it.
You can't plan a viral video.
Allison (24:47):
Yeah.
And even when a video goesviral, that doesn't necessarily
convert to Exactly.
Does that make the cashregistering and all it means is
that you got views.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It doesn't even convert toengagement.
Kate (25:00):
Think about the long game.
You're building relationships,you're getting people to trust
you.
And I've been doing this a longtime.
Whenever I put out a webinar andI usually do like a webinar a
quarter, I don't overloadpeople.
My show up rate is amazingbecause people see me on a
consistent basis all the time.
I've built trust with thesepeople.
And they know if they come toone of my events.
(25:21):
I had a webinar yesterday and wekeep track of all the data on
the backend.
And when we can see through ourCRM, how many of my events over
the last four or five yearsthey've attended a lot.
And that's really like cool andunexpected, but that's happened
because I'm consistent and Idon't overdo it, but I also
don't hide.
So you just have to find agroove.
(25:42):
Do I make mistakes?
Absolutely.
Allison (25:44):
I love that tip about the quarterly webinar.
I love to, even when I'm doing aLinkedIn event I might also post
it on Eventbrite.
Yeah.
And on Facebook.
Absolutely.
because I want people to haveaccess to information that's
hard to figure out or hard tofind out.
And plus it's fun for me.
(26:07):
I love.
Kate (26:08):
You're amplifying your reach, Allison.
That's good.
Some people think that they haveto do all of the things and you
don't.
If you do push yourself a littlebit, do something maybe you
haven't done.
Try it, see if it works.
And it probably will work.
And if it does, it'll be like,okay, I'm good.
I'm going to do it here andhere.
Good.
Because if you don't do it atall, then you're not getting
your word out there.
Allison (26:27):
You're just lamenting.
Yep.
For sure.
Yep.
I spend almost all my time onLinkedIn and nothing is as
motivating and empowering asdeleting a social profile.
Which I had such joy doing inthe last year of it's just like
cutting off a dead limb.
Like If you know it's stillthere and it's still taking up
mind space, but you never go tothat social profile, then you
(26:50):
don't need it.
Let it go.
Exactly.
And then what's left is you getto focus on, which is so much
fun for me.
But I'm still in a lot of groupstell me how I can actually use
groups to really engage becauseI'm in a lot of them, but
sometimes I can see that a groupmight be ginormous, but it's all
(27:13):
promotional baloney.
Or it might be smaller, butpeople only share their like
problems, like there doesn't, sohow do you use groups to your
advantage?
Kate (27:27):
I'm wary of LinkedIn groups in general.
About six years ago or so.
The group experience up untilthen was phenomenal.
Yes.
You could have an admin, youcould have people control it,
and then all of a suddenLinkedIn changed its user
interface and they changed theentire group experience and
they've never gone back to it.
And what happened is a lot ofthe really healthy community
groups that were there allbailed because it was crickets
(27:49):
and they couldn't even be anadmin even though they were
technically an admin.
It just, everybody went away.
And then, what everybody did isthey went over to Facebook to
create Facebook groups becauseit was an easier experience we
always thought, that's such ashame.
Here we are all on LinkedIn.
LinkedIn used to have a greatgroup experience.
We all reached out to LinkedInand said, what the heck have you
done?
Then, they keep saying they'remaking it better and the group
(28:09):
experience is a little better.
But it's not what it used to be.
So, I am wary of groups.
I still belong to a few.
I don't think I ever even seecontent from them unless I
actively go seek it.
I'll tell you what I use groupsfor is for my community things.
So, if I'm teaching a groupprogram or a one-to-one on
something with LinkedIn, thenwith my group program, I will
(28:30):
create a group of the 10 peoplethat are in the community.
Okay.
And I will use it instead of aFacebook group or Slack, because
it's a short term group program.
So, we use the group experiencethere, and that works fine.
And if you want to invite morepeople, you can.
But I have different groups.
I create a vibe in a communitywith each one.
(28:50):
And I don't know if you've ever,I'm sure you've been in a group
program.
And then if somebody else comesin and somebody's new, it's not
that you don't like them, it'sjust you liked your little.
Group the way it was, and you'reright protective of it.
So whenever I start a new groupprogram, I start a new LinkedIn
group and yeah, maybe at somepoint after I've done these four
for a year, then maybe I'll say,Hey, do you guys want to come
into a larger group?
(29:10):
because you've all been throughthe course.
Now we can have this biggercommunity and I'll help in each
other.
So I've got a strategy with thegroup experience on LinkedIn.
Whenever I get invited to agroup.
It depends on who's inviting me.
Like if Rich Brooks or youreached out and you were doing a
group I'd joined because I knowyou.
You know what I mean?
And I respect you and I knowyour jam.
(29:31):
But most of the time I'd say Idon't accept them.
I don't even accept them all onFacebook.
I just, I'll never work.
Allison (29:36):
I don't think I ever see an invitation for a group on
LinkedIn.
Kate (29:40):
I do sometimes it shows up in the where you get your
invitation requests orconnection, investor newsletter
requests.
Sometimes I do.
It's just basically it's beencrickets and a lot of LinkedIn
experts used to say, don't evenbother with the group experience
there.
So, it's completely personal.
But I would just be more likereally like inner circle if
you're going to do a group thingversus a giant group where
(30:00):
you're trying to get hundredsand hundred people.
I just think a lot of people areshy away from the group's
experience on LinkedIn untilthey change it.
Back to how used to be.
Allison (30:09):
This is such good news because I cannot wait to go into
my LinkedIn profile.
I think I'm in over 200 groups.
Yeah.
Because as you accrue them, youdon't go back to see what's
there and feels good to cleanout that closet.
Kate (30:22):
And then I get some of the spam I get in my inbox.
It'll say, I look at the personsometimes if they're in my
industry, I'll take a look tosee who's acts.
But then I'll be like, we're infour groups together.
I'm like, I haven't done a darnthing in any of those groups.
And now I'm thinking going, nowyou're spamming people.
So I think a lot of peoplejoined groups or joined them
years ago thinking that theythen had the entree to just go
and spam people withinformation.
(30:42):
And that's what it's become.
So I'd be leery, do a littledigging for a couple minutes.
Use your filters, your personalfilters about is this person in
my industry, is this somethingthat could be helpful?
When's the last time somebodyposted in that group?
If it was like more than threeor six months ago, I'd steer
clear.
Yeah, there's no activity there.
Use your little personaljudgment on decisions.
But I'd say I don't want to sayacross the board, don't do it,
(31:04):
but just maybe use theexperience more judiciously.
Allison (31:08):
Mm-hmm.
Well, no, this is so, i'm soglad.
Listen, I've been on LinkedInand doing, like back when I was
leading PR for Unilever and allthe other sports bees and
Sodexo.
I was training the sales teamand the HR team of you want to
(31:29):
use LinkedIn as a sales tool,your profile needs to be
updated.
Exactly.
I mean, these are busy peopleand they never think to say oh,
if I'm going to invite peopleover to my house, maybe I'm
going to make sure that thefront door doesn't stick.
Kate (31:44):
Exactly.
And that the living room'sclean.
Allison (31:47):
And that I'm there when they arrive.
Yes.
That's the craziest thing is hitme up on LinkedIn and you never
go to LinkedIn.
No.
You have to be there to open thedoor and For sure.
And I would always say, bringyour laptop to the meeting.
We're all going to put ourpictures, we're going to have a
populated profile.
Yep, yep.
(32:07):
And here's how, here are somerules to posting for every one
post about the company.
You've got to have seven aboutsomething else.
Yes.
because you are of service.
Exactly.
Like what?
Don't be a selfish social user,right?
because and they never use theirbanner.
So what should people put intheir banner?
Kate (32:29):
In the banner that another great question.
So, if you whether you work fora company, like if you work in
a, like a upper levelmanagement, senior leadership
role or C level role.
And if you want to use yourpersonal profile as a flag for
the company that you represent,then maybe you want to use some
branding and create a backgroundbanner image just to look
professional.
Maybe you're in a picture doingsomething, working with a client
(32:51):
or something like that.
Then you might want to do that.
But also ask yourself, do Ireally want to be selling or
spotlighting the place I work?
So, if you want it to justpersonalize it, maybe if it's
that interesting little quirkything about you.
Like when I talked about meputting down paddleboard,
fanatic, then maybe if I wasworking in a corporation, maybe
(33:12):
I'd put an image of me,paddleboarding with dolphins
swimming around me or something,yeah.
And put some copy on it, createdin Canva, not just a picture,
put a quote up about somethingthat means something to you so
people can see your value.
And it's a little personality.
That's just one idea.
Not a lot of people would dothat, but that's one idea.
But if you own your own businessand or you are your own brand.
Then you absolutely want to makea branded background image.
(33:34):
And you can do this in Canva.
Use your logo, use a realpicture of you in real life
doing something.
Have it be different than thephoto in your profile photo.
And maybe put even though it'snot clickable, put your website
in there because anybody who'sbeyond a second level
connection, if they arrive onyour profile, they actually
can't see what you put in yourcontact info.
(33:54):
They can't see your email.
It's a new privacy thing thatLinkedIn's put in place.
So like, put a info at email inyour banner or a website so that
if, even though they can't clickon it, at least if they want to
try to find you, you've made ituser friendly for them to
discover you on offline, so tospeak.
Yeah, so think about, what thatlooks like and don't have it be
too busy.
Have it be clean.
(34:15):
Good photo.
Glance, bold text.
Yeah.
Limited text, but helpful.
Allison (34:22):
Okay.
I feel like I need to take yourcourse because it's even though
I've been telling people, thatlike cobbler's children run
barefoot everywhere, right?
Yes.
And I am constantly zing myprofile.
And then, even my headline.
Yep.
I'm my publishing expert, mybook coach, I'm an author coach,
(34:43):
and I'm like, you know what?
People don't search for thingsthat are super duper niche
specific.
They search for what theirproblem is or what they need.
Kate (34:53):
Let me ask you this, Allison.
When you say you're a bookcoach, what typically are the
types of books that you work onwith your clients?
What's your niche?
Allison (35:00):
Nonfiction and memoir.
Kate (35:02):
So I would put like nonfiction book coach in your
headline.
So book coach is generic.
Allison (35:09):
It is totally generic.
It's like saying editor ormanager.
It's so generic.
The thing is, I also work withnovelists on book launches.
So if you want a book deal, Ihave a book deal blueprint and
that includes how to pitch.
Well, like the agents and the
Kate (35:26):
You have to book proposals.
Allison (35:28):
Oh yeah.
Kate (35:28):
Yeah.
So that's something else youcould put in your headline.
Yeah.
Book proposal writer, somethinglike that.
You want to think of thesethings that people would search
for more niche because peopleare smart now.
People know, if they're going tolook up a certain type of ice
cream, oh, I had ice cream atthis restaurant.
They're not going to go intoGoogle and type in ice cream.
They're going to get a gazillionresults.
But if they had a certain flavorand they're not sure of the
(35:50):
brand, they're going to describeit in Google.
People know now that if theywant to get a more immediate
targeted search result, they'regoing to put in the keywords to
help them get to that point.
And that's exactly what I'msaying.
I'm not saying you need to gocrazy on this, and I don't mean
you but your listeners but bethoughtful about this.
Put a little time into doingsome industry keyword research
so that you are morediscoverable online.
Allison (36:11):
Yeah.
And then avoid keyword stuffing.
I used to include like bookproposal.
But most people I work with havenever heard of a book proposal.
They just want to know, how do Ifind a publisher?
So the key, the long tailkeyword is find a publisher.
Find an agent.
Yeah.
That's what people search.
Kate (36:29):
Put those in there, but in your narrative, in your about
section or in the experiencesection about you as a book
coach, that's where you canwrite organically, like
something that you read, like aparagraph about what you do that
way, and that's where it wouldnaturally occur.
But it also is you're narratingto the reader as you would in
real life.
And oh, by the way, bonus, ithappens to be a keyword or a
(36:50):
keyword phrase, or a long tailkeyword, so.
Allison (36:52):
Right.
This is a personal question, soI might actually edit this out,
so we never know, but because Ihelp experts get book deals, but
in terms of book launches, Ialso work with fiction writers.
Okay.
And all my clients become awardwinners and bestsellers.
It's just, this is the publicistin me is just, I know how to do
(37:13):
this.
Yes.
So I'm always struggling with,do I put nonfiction?
Do I not put, do I want to openit up?
Because then people willautomatically like remove
themselves, think oh, now Ihave, she doesn't do that.
She does.
Kate (37:30):
Yes.
So in your headline, I wouldpick two or three things that
you primarily want to be knownfor.
Then when you get down into likeyour about section or into the
narrative for your experiencesection, that's where you can
talk about, and not only do Iwork with people who want to do
memoirs and nonfiction, but Ialso work with people who are
novelists or fiction writers andbook launches.
(37:50):
And that's where you can talkabout the nitty gritty of what
else you do.
So, if anybody digs in deeper,so it's sometimes it's almost
like you want to say the one ortwo things that are going to get
people's attention and pull themin.
And then when they go down alittle further or they talk to
you in person.
Then you already know how you'regoing to talk about.
Whoa.
And I also do this, I alsoprovide this service.
Okay, so instead of having itall out there right off the bat.
(38:11):
It's like too much informationright front.
And then people can find it.
You can strategically place itin other places of your profile,
which is exactly how I workthings with my clients.
For example, there's a feature,there's a section you can add on
LinkedIn called publications.
There's publications.
So if you're a writer, you can,you could put whether you're a
blog writer or a newsletterwriter or book, an author, you
(38:32):
can have this like library andarchive of things in your
publications.
There's another section you canadd called projects and Projects
is more corporate oriented.
But what I did with projects,since I don't work in a
corporate setting, I took all ofmy speaking events and I've put
all my top names, speakingevents because it's a project.
But all of my stuff on myprojects are all the stages I've
(38:54):
spoken on virtual and online.
That's so
Allison (38:56):
cool.
Kate (38:56):
And then I have a little place to put a blurb.
So I strategically used it forthat.
And I've gotten speaking gigsbecause I've done that.
Even though in my experiencesection, I talk about myself as
a speaker.
I provide my speaker demo videoand my speaker one sheet.
So, I'm spreading out that stuffstrategically instead of just
saying I'm a speaker, hire me.
Allison (39:17):
Because there's no telling what someone's going to
land on.
Kate (39:19):
And you don't know where they're going to land.
Everybody assumes they're goingto read top to bottom, every
word people scan.
But that's why if your narrativeis different and you're using
things about yourself andshowing some personality and
using story that's going to makeyou memorable, and then people
are going to want to keepreading and learn more.
What else she got?
Allison (39:38):
Yeah.
I have a couple more questionsbecause I've been seeing on
LinkedIn these posts that areformatted, they're long form,
there are a lot of spacesbetween sentences.
They're very storytelling.
Yep.
And yet they somehow veryappropriately still lead to, and
(40:03):
if you want to work with me, andthey're super clever, cleverly
written, but generally thepeople who post those sort
always post that sort of thing.
Yeah.
And when I've looked at theformat and maybe shoved it into
ChatGPT and said, Hey, I have acustom GPT that writes like me
(40:24):
only with my words.
Yep.
But it just, it seems socounterintuitive to stop people
from their scrolls with thefirst line, like Jay Schwedelson
would say, in the first line youneed to say who this is for.
Because you can't use your firstline for throat clearing because
(40:45):
it won't stop people.
So when you see these types ofdifferent post structures, what
is your take on that long formstructure?
Kate (40:56):
As a former journalist, I still believe in a good lead.
So, I still think that yourfirst sentence should be
something that draws people in.
Then in the second graph, youcan always give it context or
something like that, but hookthem in.
Grab them in, captivate them.
So, I believe in that.
I do like the idea of shortparagraphs with a lot of white
space beyond the traditionalparagraph like we were taught in
(41:18):
school, and mostly because 65%of people look at LinkedIn on an
app.
And so, from a standpoint ofeasy ease to read, people don't
want to see dense, heavy text ina paragraph block.
They'll just scroll on by.
So that's the strategy behindwhy people are doing that.
And I do it too.
And so I do, sometimes I want toisolate a sentence because I
want to emphasize a point, andmaybe it's pithy, I pay
(41:41):
attention to that.
As far as calls to action at theend, the whole, what are your
thoughts?
Nobody does that anymore.
It's dated.
Don't ask that.
If you want to ask some kind ofa call to action, have it be
really pointed and interesting,that might be a real
conversation starter and do itevery now and then.
Don't put something, a; and ifyou want to work with me,
because you've got them and thenall of a sudden you're being
salesy.
(42:01):
There's ways to do it.
There's times to do it.
It's like you got to read theroom.
But don't make that a standardpractice in your regular
posting.
If you want to provide value,leave them with a thought that
makes them go makes them think.
Maybe it creates conversation,but don't ask.
Nobody does it anymore.
It's just dry.
Allison (42:20):
Yeah.
It's really, it's a superturnoff.
Kate (42:22):
Yeah.
Allison (42:23):
It's like saying when people reach out to you and say
Hey, let's catch up.
What's going on with you?
That's not a catch up.
Now it's my responsibility togive you a digital catch up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It feels like homework.
Kate (42:35):
I know, right.
Allison (42:36):
I don't love that.
I don't answer those, I justsay, if you want to catch up,
here's a link and let's actuallycatch up and we'll chat.
Or when do you want to talk forthe love of Pete?
Okay, let's pivot because I wantto know what you're reading.
Kate (42:49):
Okay, great.
Alright, so I just finished themost phenomenal book.
It's called Wild Dark Shore byCharlotte McConaghy, I think is
she's an Australian author.
And it was an incredible book.
It's a novel, it takes place onan island between like Australia
and the Antarctic.
(43:09):
And it's based on MacquarieIsland, but it's not Macquarie
Island.
And there's this family thatlives there that takes care of
the research center there.
Because what they do is they've,over the years, they have been
preserving seeds from all overso that if climate change makes
something go extinct, that'slike a seed bank and this,
that's a real thing.
(43:30):
Yes.
But it's about the father andhis children that live there and
the experiences they have.
And there's a lot of things thathappen.
And so it's a really greatfamilial story, the description
about the environment.
because it's rough.
Like on a warm, sunny day, itmight hit 30.
And the seas and the seals thatlive there.
And that's true on MacquarieIsland, there's a huge colony of
seals and penguins and they talkabout that.
(43:53):
So, it's just it's reallyinteresting.
It's environmental, it'sfamilial and the relationships
between all the, what goes onthere and everything.
It was just I couldn't put itdown.
Allison (44:03):
Oh, I'm going to get it.
We'll make sure that the link isin the show notes too.
Yes.
Kate (44:07):
Yep.
Wild Dark Shore, CharlotteMcConaghy, how she pronounced
it, but it's like the last, it'slike GHY ending, but she
pronounced the G.
Allison (44:15):
With a G okay.
We'll have a link to yourLinkedIn profile and even on
your LinkedIn profile, peoplecan book a chitchat with you,
right?
Kate (44:24):
Yeah.
I think it's going to be in theshow notes.
There should be a link to a 30minute free discovery call with
me.
So, if you want to talk aboutyour personal brand development
or your LinkedIn strategy orwhatever, I'm happy to talk to
you if you're interested inknowing how I might be able to
work with you.
If that's something you want totalk about, we can do that too,
but I'm happy to just answersome questions.
Allison (44:41):
Oh, awesome.
Okay.
All of that will be in the shownotes.
Now, before we call this podcastcomplete, what is one thing that
you want people to do today?
What can they do today tofinally feel confident about
showing up in LinkedIn?
Kate (44:58):
We talked about the importance of the keywords in
the headline, so I'd really showsome love to your headline.
The other thing I would inviteyou to think about is thinking
about your own personal story oryour slice of life story.
It's like your story nugget.
So, if you go over to my profileand you see how I write at the
very beginning, my firstsentence is I was an avid news
junkie in seventh grade, and Igo into how I wanted to be back
(45:20):
in the late eighties when I wasin college.
I wanted to be a femalebroadcast journalist.
They were few at the time.
So, I said I wanted to be thenext Diane Sawyer.
And then I want go into myexperience as an intern at CBS
News.
And then I segue into today.
Now, I'm a storyteller workingwith entrepreneurs who wanted
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
So think about your little storynugget and how you can
incorporate that into the aboutsection of your profile and how
(45:43):
it can show a little bit aboutyou so people can make a
connection, but also ties intowhat you do now so that it's
relevant and aligned.
Allison (45:51):
That's such good advice.
I don't think that people thinkenough about sharing a little
bit about how you got there, butmaking sure that it ties in.
It has to tie in that it'srelevant, right.
Because people don't want achronological play by play.
Kate (46:06):
Nope.
they don't want the bio.
Your bio has its place forcertain things.
Your bio has a place for a bookbeing introduced on stage, but
in your LinkedIn profile, makeit count.
And also you have 2,600characters for the about
section.
It's approximately 500 wordsish.
Use all of that digital realestate.
LinkedIn keeps expanding it,which tells me they want you to
(46:26):
use all that digital realestate.
And the more you use, the morethey're going to serve you up.
So in search results.
Don't short take shortcuts onLinkedIn.
Allison (46:34):
All the things are there.
Yeah.
They really have.
So they spend so much timeputting, steps in place to share
what really works.
Yes.
And if you're not using all theoptions, then it's like you're
not putting gas in the tank.
Kate (46:52):
Exactly what the heck.
LinkedIn gives you a ton ofsections.
You can add the ones that arerelevant.
Don't just add them to add them,add the ones that are relevant.
But the more tools you takeadvantage of that they provide
you, the more they're going tosearch you, serve you up, and
search results because they cansee that you're utilizing the
features that they've provided.
If you just do the basic and youjust make a like two sentence
about section and call it a day,and you have your only job that
(47:13):
you've, in right now, and younever show nobody's going to see
anything there that adds value.
It's just going to be like,scroll on by.
Allison (47:21):
And your lack of 15 minute attention to your
LinkedIn profile is, it's reallyjust wasted opportunity because
you were a big effing deal.
Exactly.
No one's going to, it's no oneelse's job to figure out how
your expertise can relate andhelp more people.
Right.
It's on you.
Kate (47:41):
In this day and age, people search people.
So if they meet you, and I don'tmean like in a stocky, creepy
way.
People meet you somehow, someway they read something you've
written, they see a comment youmade on LinkedIn.
They might go and Google you.
And if you have a LinkedInprofile, even if you have a
website like I do with mybusiness, your LinkedIn profile
shows up first on the first pageof Google.
And so, that might be the firstplace, the first impression
(48:04):
people get of you.
So if they go to your LinkedInprofile and it's like
practically non-existent, thatthey may never want to reach out
to you or hire you or have acall with you or whatever.
So, think about that LinkedInpresence that you have as your
digital footprint.
Have it be a compliment to yourwebsite, have it be a compliment
to your corporate career, andreally pay attention to it.
It is vital in this day and age.
(48:25):
And I don't work for LinkedIn,just so you know.
Disclaimer.
Allison (48:29):
That's right.
Disclaimer.
Listen, everything you've sharedis just such a masterclass.
And I think only touch thesurface.
So, I am urging you on your wayto work and you're listening to
this make a note before you getout of your car in the parking
garage or wherever you'reputting your car to take this
(48:51):
action.
It only benefits you to win andyour company or your university.
It's a win-win.
They want you to be a standout.
But there's no, this is how youdo it department at your
company.
Unfortunately you nailed it.
They're just hoping that someonewill know how to.
(49:16):
Navigate this and now you do.
And you can reach out to Kate,which you should.
Kate (49:22):
Thank you.
Allison (49:22):
And please share this.
Share it with someone who needsit.
Share it with someone who, theirLinkedIn profile needs some
love.
You don't have to tell them,listen, you're really sucking a
lemon here.
But they'll get the gist.
And you will have done a good inthe world.
Yes.
Not for nothing.
Leave a review too.
(49:43):
It helps the algorithm know thatpeople need this.
And this is a joy for me becauseas a career marketer and
publicist, I just feel like I'msitting on gold.
And even today, Kate, you sharedthings that I didn't know.
Good.
After this, I'm going to go andjudge my profile.
Good.
Good.
Alright.
Until next time, I want you toknow you have an edge as an
(50:07):
author, you can grow yourvisibility.
You can start today.
You can put your humility asidebecause it is boring us to
death.
And you can step into thespotlight where you belong
because no one is going to comeand drag you out of the shadows.
It's up to you.
And we'll see you next week.
I can't wait to find out whatyou do next.
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