March 25, 2025 • 40 mins
Have you ever told yourself, “I’ll write my book when I feel ready” or “Who am I to write this?” If so, you’re not alone. High achievers often struggle with self-doubt, perfectionism, and the fear of putting their ideas into the world, especially when it comes to publishing a book.
Allison Lane sits down with Dr. Tara Cousineau, clinical psychologist and author of "The Perfectionist Dilemma," to discuss how perfectionism holds authors back and what you can do to finally take action. If you’ve been procrastinating on writing, launching, or marketing your book, this conversation will give you the mindset shifts you need.
Press play now and take the first step toward writing with confidence.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- The biggest mistakes high-achieving authors make when it comes to writing and publishing.
- Why perfectionism sabotages book launches and how to break the cycle.
- The mindset shift that will help you finally start (and finish) your book.
Resources Mentioned:
- Website: https://www.taracousineau.com/
- Book Site: https://perfectionistsdilemma.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/taracousineau/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tara_cousineau/
- Dr. Tara’s Substack: https://taracousphd.substack.com/
- The Next Chapter Network: https://www.lanelit.com/nextchapter
- Book Recommendation:
- Dr. Tara’s Book - The Perfectionist Dilemma: Learn the Art of Self-Compassion and Become a Happy Achiever: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781639109463
- Weyward: A Novel by Emilia Hart: https://bookshop.org/a/55773/9781250842725
Timestamps:
[00:04:04] – Why high-achieving authors struggle with self-doubt and procrastination?
[00:09:26] – The hidden connection between perfectionism and fear of writing.
[00:17:12] – How to stop waiting for the “perfect time” to write your book.
[00:26:38] – The power of self-compassion in overcoming creative roadblocks.
[00:34:28] – A simple mindset shift to help you finish and launch your book confidently.
Ready to stop overthinking and start writing? Hit play now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axKrnJADWGI
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Tara (00:00):
We don't want to get rid of that striving for
(00:02):
excellence.
Like that's a really importantvalue.
It's important to feel likeyou're doing quality, meaningful
work in the world.
But you don't need to suffer asyou do it.
Allison (00:36):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge.
I am your host, Allison Lane,and I am here for you.
I'm so glad you're showing upfor yourself and making time to
make yourself a better marketerfor your own being and for the
book that you meant to write 10years ago, but you wrote now.
(00:58):
Or the book that you are juststarting to figure out what does
it wanna be.
Or if you're on your eighthbook, it doesn't matter.
We all need to be bettermarketers of ourselves and also
the books we're writing.
So, you're in the right place.
Sit back wherever you are.
(01:18):
Probably, in the target parkinglot'cause that's where I listen
to the podcast that have timeto.
And let me dive in because todayI'm so happy to welcome Dr.
Tara Cousineau to the show.
She's a clinical psychologist, ameditation teacher.
She is yogarefic.
(01:39):
And she helps high achievers letgo of perfectionism and step
into the opportunity they haveto do the thing that they always
wanted to do, but withconfidence and joy.
Who doesn't want that?
She's also a psychologist atHarvard's Counseling and mental
(02:03):
health services.
She's has her own privatepractice.
Her new book also is thePerfectionist Dilemma.
Learn the art of self-Compassionand become a happy achiever.
This book is so good.
You'll hear during the interviewhow it has changed me and what
(02:24):
the changes I've made to even myschedule are.
I can't wait to hear how you arechanged.
When you read it too, you'll seeall the links for her book and
the book she recommends and allthe things we talk about in the
show notes.
But let's now dive in.
Welcome, Dr.
(02:45):
Tara Kusano.
We're both in the afterglow ofyour book launch event at the
Harvard bookstore called TheCoop, which I thought was co-op,
but then I got corrected by aclient who's written 22 books,
and he was like no, it's theCoop, Allison.
And I was like, oh, okay.
I'm so not an insider.
(03:07):
But now I am.
Now I'm in the inner circle.
So, congratulations on your booklaunch of this amazing thing,
the perfectionist dilemma.
I keep telling you, how muchyou've helped me already, and
this baby's only been out for acouple weeks.
But the subtitle says it all tome, the learn the art of
(03:28):
self-compassion and become ahappy achiever.
As a high achiever and aperfectionist myself.
Like I do wanna still achieve,but I don't wanna feel the
weight of the guilt of which Ithink we always do of but you
didn't do all this other stuff.
And that's what we focus on.
And I wanna be able to celebrateeverything that I am doing, but
(03:54):
also that I want other people.
So, for those listening in whoare just as busy as you are with
working full-time and servingpatients, or teaching students,
or cause listeners, I know thatyou're listening in the car on
your way somewhere'cause you'retrying to fit this in.
(04:15):
I want to ask you Dr.
Tara, about all those highachievers out there who are
probably making some commonmistakes when it comes to
looking at their own success.
So, let's just kick off by youhelping us understand what are
(04:36):
those common mistakes, and youcan use me as an example if you
want to.
Dr. Tara (04:40):
No.
Okay.
Thanks for having me, first ofall.
It's an excellent question tostart with because I literally
just had an hour consult withsomeone who has achieved a great
deal in her young life, and I.
said to her previously in thepast, when you accomplish your
(05:03):
degree, when that happens, savorit.
Stay with it.
Stay with it longer than youmight because people who are
high achieving.
they reach this goal and thenthey're on to the next thing and
they don't actually absorb ormetabolize Or integrate
Allison (05:24):
just had this
Dr. Tara (05:25):
milestone.
Allison (05:26):
huge milestone
Dr. Tara (05:27):
And it makes me sad actually, is that they're not
actually appreciating their ownsuccesses or their own, efforts.
They're just on the next thing.
And it's, a tricky part of the,of, I think of the mind that we
get into that trap.
Allison (05:41):
I wanna just breathe through it.
'cause I'm thinking we all dothat, but why do we do that?
Every woman I know is quick tosay oh, thanks but what I really
needed to do was this.
Where does that come from?
We can't even take a compliment.
Dr. Tara (05:59):
Exactly.
I think that comes fromconditioning.
I think for girls and women,it's very much a How we need to
continually prove ourselves overand over again in order to
achieve some sort of status orideal, Whether in a job partner
(06:20):
looks, Appearance, friendships,where you live, And it's not our
fault.
It's not, this is for men too.
If they're listening, it's notyour fault.
We are seeped in a culture, astew of materialism and
consumerism And the bars keepgetting raised more and more to
the clinic.
What more can you do withoutgetting worked out?
(06:41):
And that's usually, it out.
Allison (06:42):
Yeah.
They burn themselves out andthen they have to take time
because sometimes they're like,I'm just gonna take the weekend.
Oh, go crazy.
Dr. Tara (06:51):
Right as at 48 hours is really yeah.
lifetime.
Allison (06:54):
A lifetime, right.
Or they have to take a step back'cause they're like, no, my
health is suffering.
But what I really see is womenwho are high achieving and men
too.
But high achieving, and theyachieve the thing that they
thought they always wanted.
They're at the height of theirindustry or their field.
(07:18):
And then not only have theyachieved it, but then they
fizzle out because then what?
Like they've been aperfectionist their whole lives.
They've been a high achieving.
They've beat themself up.
They haven't savored anything.
They get to the top and they'relike, it's not like WW, but it
(07:38):
is what else is gonna drive youif there's nothing else to drive
you?
Because they've been lettingexternal forces dictate what
their success was.
And we were talking about this alittle offline last night after
your book event.
And I just find that resonatingwith me as somebody who reached
(08:02):
heights and my first 25 years,or even my first 10 years I was,
considered a rising star andthen as, a superstar, then
whatever.
But I never celebrated it.
I always thought, oh, I just,this is, I'm just a little me
from rural Maryland with myMaryland accent.
I can't even say rural.
It's hard.
(08:23):
But then we achieve theseheights and particularly for
writers who oftentimes they areat the top of their field, but
they don't know the path towriting a book Because it wasn't
part of their career path.
So as I'm on this, campaign foreveryone to think bigger about
(08:44):
the ripple effect they can havein the world, I really want you
to speak to the person who'sachieve the thing they thought
they would achieve, but theyhave more to give.
So how do we unlock that?
Dr. Tara (08:58):
Unlocking is a good word.
Allison (09:00):
I think
Dr. Tara (09:01):
what happens, at least in my experience, with high
achievers is we actually, ournervous systems to the constant
achievement that we don't.
Allison (09:10):
Feels
Dr. Tara (09:10):
like
Allison (09:11):
to
Dr. Tara (09:11):
a pause or take a rest
Allison (09:13):
us,
Dr. Tara (09:13):
or savor, and we
Allison (09:14):
we actually disconnect
Dr. Tara (09:16):
sometimes from the feelings, from the
Allison (09:18):
from the feelings, from the meaning,
Dr. Tara (09:19):
the
Allison (09:19):
the purpose that got you started
Dr. Tara (09:22):
place.
Allison (09:24):
I always want
Dr. Tara (09:25):
people to
Allison (09:26):
to recognize that their
Dr. Tara (09:28):
their
Allison (09:29):
value has been in their effort
Dr. Tara (09:31):
all
Allison (09:31):
along and
Dr. Tara (09:32):
about what's on the outside, it's what's in the
inside.
And that gets obscured withbeing on this treadmill of
succeeding.
Allison (09:43):
And when it comes to I easy for me to write books I
really struggled with that.
Dr. Tara (09:48):
I didn't
Allison (09:48):
I didn't think I was good.
Dr. Tara (09:49):
did I think I Did what I have
Allison (09:50):
I have to,
Dr. Tara (09:51):
Did it
Allison (09:51):
did it even matter?
Dr. Tara (09:52):
Would I
Allison (09:53):
would I say that would be any different than somebody
else who's in.
Dr. Tara (09:55):
Than the comparing mind settles in.
And we can't help the comparingmind either because that's
actually how our brain operates.
Allison (10:02):
But when we start to negatively compare ourselves to
Dr. Tara (10:05):
To ideals, who have made these,
Allison (10:07):
people's rights, life,
Dr. Tara (10:09):
We
Allison (10:09):
we actually,
Dr. Tara (10:09):
their
Allison (10:10):
their backstory, which is probably 20
Dr. Tara (10:12):
years of really hard work also.
So
Allison (10:14):
so we forget that.
Dr. Tara (10:16):
things
Allison (10:16):
actually don't happen that there
Dr. Tara (10:18):
There are
Allison (10:19):
all these other
Dr. Tara (10:19):
out
Allison (10:20):
out there,
Dr. Tara (10:21):
we might
Allison (10:21):
we might be comparing ourselves to the wrong
Dr. Tara (10:23):
step.
Allison (10:24):
and the trajectory.
Dr. Tara (10:25):
like how
Allison (10:26):
Like how do you get started on something
Dr. Tara (10:28):
without
Allison (10:29):
being perfect, without it all figured out?
Dr. Tara (10:32):
And that actually
Allison (10:33):
Actually,
Dr. Tara (10:33):
is a practice of self-compassion.
To go back to the
Allison (10:35):
SubT.
Dr. Tara (10:36):
of my book is you have to actually
Allison (10:40):
Really
Dr. Tara (10:41):
kind to
Allison (10:41):
to yourself along the way because you're doing
something that might be new,might feel like
Dr. Tara (10:45):
imposter.
Those
Allison (10:47):
are the thoughts
Dr. Tara (10:48):
that often
Allison (10:49):
arise,
Dr. Tara (10:50):
And
Allison (10:51):
to remind yourself that
Dr. Tara (10:53):
I'm actually doing something new.
Allison (10:55):
it's okay
Dr. Tara (10:56):
to be a beginner.
And I think high achievers don'tlike being beginners.
Allison (11:00):
High achievers want to, they might be a beginner, but
they want an a plus out of thegate.
And they like all their ducks tobe in a row as well.
And so that's why we seeprocrast to learning And
procrast them to get prepared,Which is the worst kind of
preparing.
(11:20):
I'm organizing so that I'll beorganized when oh my God, let's
just do it Lord have mercy.
No and high achievers theyoftentimes, they think that they
have to earn the right to do thenext thing is what I notice.
This is what you'll have to talkme through this.
But when they do breakout,unlock their imagined perceived
(11:46):
next step of, I'm going to speakat a conference that's not an
industry conference, but it'slike a global conference.
And they realize oh, this wasavailable all along, but there's
just no like hierarchical stepto that.
So, you really have to unlockyour own potential.
So that you can go for the thingthat no one has invited you to.
(12:10):
But the invitation is universal,it's ubiquitous, it's available
to everyone.
So like for you, I'm sure youhave colleagues who have not
written a book, you decided towrite a book, so good on you.
That's my point is you're anexpert in your field.
You are a psychologist at theHarvard counseling center and
(12:33):
you have your own privatepractice and you wrote a book.
Because you decided you weregoing to do that.
You didn't wait for someone tosay, you've achieved enough.
It's now time.
So I wanna help other peopleunlock that.
Truth
Dr. Tara (12:50):
To
Allison (12:51):
to write my first book,
Dr. Tara (12:51):
book, which is a kindness I mean, it's not like a
heavy topic, but I I had.
important meaning behind it.
That kind of got my butt in thechair actually, to Actually,
writing.
and that was that wasn't itactually wasn't about me that
the book was actually a messageFor my daughters people in the
(13:12):
community.
So, I had to take myself, my egooutta it and remind myself I I
have an opinion, I have aperspective, I have something
share, and I'm just the channelfor it.
And there might be other peoplewho have a message.
they're the channel For theirversion of the message.
But I have, version, so I had toflip the script Literally,
(13:33):
clearly internally that itwasn't about am I gonna do this
right?
Is this even important?
Who do I think I'm say waitminute.
I have something that I wannashare And I made it personal in
I wanted to leave somethingbehind for my daughters.
I thought, oh, drop deadtomorrow.
Cheese.
Okay.
(13:53):
It's a good practice inmindfulness circles.
It's actually a good practiceThis.
moment, if this was your day, ifthis is your week, how would you
spend your life?
I'll tell you what?
You wouldn't be looking at yourto-do list.
You would be connecting withpeople.
You were to Appreciating peoplebe You would be doing kind and
generous acts.
So I, my kids were in highschool coming to the end of high
(14:14):
school.
It was a crazy busy timehousehold.
And I was like, okay, But thethe world was mean.
Allison (14:19):
Daughter got beaten up
Dr. Tara (14:20):
There was like
Allison (14:21):
crazy.
Dr. Tara (14:21):
were happening.
I was like, wait a minute, whathappened to kindness?
And that's what got my
Allison (14:25):
My first book started.
I was like, I wanna look intothis a little bit deeper.
Dr. Tara (14:29):
With the
Allison (14:29):
The perfectionist, the one that just came out.
Dr. Tara (14:32):
I I had been working with emerging adults, young
people you
Allison (14:37):
Who
Dr. Tara (14:37):
have
Allison (14:38):
been
Dr. Tara (14:39):
high achievers,
Allison (14:39):
like
Dr. Tara (14:40):
for whatever, 18 years.
Allison (14:42):
18 years, and here they're,
Dr. Tara (14:43):
and
Allison (14:44):
and now they have all this
Dr. Tara (14:45):
syndrome happening and or really hard on themselves,
like internalizing this constantmessage
Allison (14:52):
that you have to keep,
Dr. Tara (14:53):
W
Allison (14:53):
working hard.
Dr. Tara (14:54):
you have to
Allison (14:55):
You have to prove yourself constantly,
Dr. Tara (14:57):
which
Allison (14:58):
which is when I was like, I gotta actually do
something.
Dr. Tara (15:00):
help
Allison (15:00):
help these people.
Because I was actually in thesame exact position when I was
getting my PhD, and so Ithought.
Dr. Tara (15:05):
okay.
The The perfectionists have suchgreat intentions.
Allison (15:10):
They
Dr. Tara (15:10):
wanna do good things in the world.
They They wanna be beproductive.
There's some sense of, Reallywonderful agency.
And then they, up, yeah, likebut that's the dilemma.
And then they suffer.
So So in all these wonderfulthings that.
do and the new learning andmaking some wave in the world,
(15:30):
they they beat themselves upalong the way.
Oh Oh my gosh, Can can you dothat without the suffering?
So So that was the impetus forthe perfectionist alumni is that
we don't want to get rid of thatstriving for excellence.
Like that's a really importantvalue.
It's important to feel likeyou're doing quality, meaningful
work in the world.
But you don't need to suffer asyou do it.
Allison (15:52):
I'm so moved by that.
I feel like everyone needs tohear that feeling that you
should have achieved somethingalready is such a way to beat
yourself up, especially when youhave so much value to provide so
much wisdom and kindness to passon.
(16:12):
And what I find about nonfictionauthors is that they're driven
to help.
it's never, oh, I wanna put mystamp on the world like that.
look at my fist.
for those of you not watching onYouTube, put your stamp on the
world looks like you're gonnapunch the world that is not what
(16:34):
I'm talking about.
I'm talking about offeringsomething with open hands, like
you are offering knowledge andperspective and lessons and
steps that people can interpretas their own.
But Dr.
Tara, if you hadn't writtenthese two books, that would all
(16:56):
still be in your noggin and onlyknown by the people who see you
professionally and by yourpeers.
And it's too small of a circle.
Expanding your ripple effect iswhat I'm talking about.
the good, knock on effect thatyou can have is so much larger
(17:16):
when you write a book.
now let me ask this otherquestion, which is about how in
a world that glorifies hustle,culture, and perfection, which
is just, anything I do the speedof light is actually not
perfect.
It's always messy and not great.
(17:38):
But what is a big shift you'veseen recently in the way that
people approach their own mentalhealth and growth in that type
of, maybe it's a old, I don'tknow if it's an old perspective,
but hustle or your side hustleor you've got to do something,
(18:00):
but it has to be perfect out ofthe gate.
Have you seen a shift?
God, I hope you have.
Please say yes.
You know
Dr. Tara (18:06):
I'm I'm a yes And the
Allison (18:09):
oh.
Dr. Tara (18:09):
why I see the shift, there's no yes, but here, but,
Allison (18:12):
And the reason
Dr. Tara (18:13):
because
Allison (18:13):
because I'm in
Dr. Tara (18:14):
a
Allison (18:14):
almost a privileged
Dr. Tara (18:15):
situation of
Allison (18:16):
of being
Dr. Tara (18:17):
a
Allison (18:17):
a clinical psychologist,
Dr. Tara (18:19):
that
Allison (18:20):
people come to me because they've had this first
step of self.
Something has happened in theirlife where they
Dr. Tara (18:27):
recognize
Allison (18:28):
that
Dr. Tara (18:29):
they're,
Allison (18:29):
they
Dr. Tara (18:30):
need to
Allison (18:30):
to make a shift.
They might not know.
Dr. Tara (18:32):
exactly, but they've had that awareness with high
Allison (18:36):
Achievers often,
Dr. Tara (18:36):
often, or, and with perfectionist in
Allison (18:39):
particularly
Dr. Tara (18:40):
That moment of
Allison (18:42):
that moment of self-awareness
Dr. Tara (18:43):
is
Allison (18:43):
is often
Dr. Tara (18:44):
because their
Allison (18:45):
their body shut down.
Dr. Tara (18:46):
They've gotten an illness.
Allison (18:48):
For me it was like,
Dr. Tara (18:49):
TMJI
Allison (18:50):
TMJ
Dr. Tara (18:50):
having,
Allison (18:50):
having
Dr. Tara (18:51):
I was having
Allison (18:52):
nerve pain in my
Dr. Tara (18:53):
I didn't know what,
Allison (18:54):
where that coming from?
Dr. Tara (18:55):
whatever, 32 years old, maybe at the
Allison (18:57):
Time.
Dr. Tara (18:58):
that couldn't
Allison (19:00):
tell it to myself, but my body did, and then I.
Dr. Tara (19:04):
out why.
And the why was because I was onthis sort of, that Brene Brown
thing, like hustling forworthiness, right?
That we
Allison (19:10):
Get on this treadmill
Dr. Tara (19:12):
of
Allison (19:12):
of doing and achieving,
Dr. Tara (19:14):
And then
Allison (19:14):
and then if we feel productive,
Dr. Tara (19:15):
it
Allison (19:16):
it means we're worthy.
Dr. Tara (19:17):
And
Allison (19:17):
And so
Dr. Tara (19:18):
we
Allison (19:18):
we have to notice that we've been on this
Dr. Tara (19:20):
pro
Allison (19:21):
productivity treadmill
Dr. Tara (19:23):
and
Allison (19:23):
and
Dr. Tara (19:24):
exhausted
Allison (19:25):
ourselves that we're
Dr. Tara (19:26):
enjoying what we're doing anymore.
Allison (19:28):
so that.
Dr. Tara (19:29):
all.
Allison (19:29):
Also when people
Dr. Tara (19:30):
when people
Allison (19:31):
come to me, they're like,
Dr. Tara (19:32):
don't
Allison (19:32):
I don't think I'm join this.
Dr. Tara (19:34):
And
Allison (19:35):
And that's a really important moment of recognition
Dr. Tara (19:39):
To
Allison (19:40):
start to make some shifts in,
Dr. Tara (19:42):
and they don't have to be huge ones.
They can be small, consistent,subtle shifts to get back into
some balance or maybe justcultivate balance for the first
time in your life.
Allison (19:55):
yeah.
Those small, what seems like asmall shift.
But I told you, and I keeptelling people that I read your
book and I was like, oh my gosh.
I am always, no matter where Iam, I'm always prepared to do
two other things.
If there's even a gap in myattention, like I've got
(20:16):
podcasts queued up and I've gotmy laptop with me and my go
Bagg, which, why do I need a GoBagg?
Allison.
So you made me notice that I wasgo Gogo.
And when I allowed myself timeto drive around and not have a
podcast on and actually enjoythe radio silence so that I was
(20:41):
like, oh my gosh, I feel so muchbetter.
And I was able to observe thatthere were things on my to-do
list that were never gonna getdone that weren't interesting or
important or urgent, and I couldonly do that once I gave myself
space.
(21:03):
Which I had to force myself totake my pile of sticky notes and
write them all out in onenotebook so I could see them all
side by side.
'cause I had been carryingaround a stack of sticky notes
that were all scribbled on fortwo months.
Allison?
Dr. Tara (21:21):
so I
Allison (21:22):
I wonder,
Dr. Tara (21:23):
and we're not gonna do any
Allison (21:23):
any therapy, Come on, this is why I do this.
Dr. Tara (21:26):
my def, here's my definition of perfectionism.
And
Allison (21:29):
And whether it's productivity or workaholism,
you.
Dr. Tara (21:32):
you can give it whatever label you want, but the
way that I have come around todefining perfectionism is that
Allison (21:38):
It's
Dr. Tara (21:38):
the
Allison (21:39):
the paradox
Dr. Tara (21:40):
created
Allison (21:40):
by the need for belonging or the converse,
Dr. Tara (21:44):
the
Allison (21:44):
the fear of rejection,
Dr. Tara (21:46):
paired with
Allison (21:47):
with unrealistic expectations for
Dr. Tara (21:49):
for
Allison (21:49):
achievement
Dr. Tara (21:50):
And approval
Allison (21:51):
and that,
Dr. Tara (21:52):
your energy or life force.
Allison (21:55):
yeah.
That's what I'm hearing from youis that,
Dr. Tara (21:57):
that filling,
Allison (21:58):
that time gap
Dr. Tara (22:00):
with
Allison (22:00):
something to do
Dr. Tara (22:02):
is
Allison (22:03):
really
Dr. Tara (22:03):
the
Allison (22:04):
the way that your system,
Dr. Tara (22:05):
your
Allison (22:06):
mind, body, heart system is.
Dr. Tara (22:08):
is trying
Allison (22:09):
To
Dr. Tara (22:11):
make
Allison (22:11):
yourself
Dr. Tara (22:12):
feel.
Important or
Allison (22:15):
or worthy or responsible.
Dr. Tara (22:17):
You've
Allison (22:17):
you've got Family to take care of
Dr. Tara (22:20):
and and at the same time, it's gonna stand up your
energy life force.
And people will
Allison (22:26):
will say that's, alright.
That's a little bit out there.
Dr. Tara (22:27):
that's why
Allison (22:28):
why people come in.
Because their
Dr. Tara (22:30):
their
Allison (22:30):
energy is gone.
Dr. Tara (22:31):
It's
Allison (22:31):
It's like
Dr. Tara (22:32):
they've
Allison (22:33):
they've just
Dr. Tara (22:34):
Burned the
Allison (22:34):
the candle at both ends, and
Dr. Tara (22:37):
that's that
Allison (22:38):
that awareness status.
Dr. Tara (22:39):
I'm burning the candle at both ends.
Allison (22:42):
This is just too hard.
And now I wanna write a book.
Dr. Tara (22:44):
am?
Allison (22:44):
I'm because of?
What happens is when you don'trecognize you're having
Dr. Tara (22:47):
this
Allison (22:48):
this sort of experience of depletion is the inner
Dr. Tara (22:51):
critics will storm
Allison (22:53):
right?
In with,
Dr. Tara (22:54):
with Yeah.
Allison (22:55):
yeah.
Who do you think,
Dr. Tara (22:56):
you are
Allison (22:57):
And then we have to be really mindful
Dr. Tara (22:58):
that.
We
Allison (22:59):
we have inner critic narratives
Dr. Tara (23:01):
that will
Allison (23:01):
will fill in the space
Dr. Tara (23:03):
and
Allison (23:03):
and then
Dr. Tara (23:03):
sabotage
Allison (23:05):
Yeah.
That inner critic is somethingthat I witness a lot in working
with women particularly is thatthey know that other people see
them as an expert.
And then they finally find meand they say, am I crazy?
is anyone even gonna beinterested in this book idea?
(23:27):
And you know what I always sayis, first of all, you are a big
effing deal.
And if you are someone who hasfound this podcast, you also are
a big effing deal.
Because there are a ton of, youcan find your inner writer
podcasts and those have theirplace.
But this podcast is aboutgetting some poo done.
(23:49):
And if you're writing nonfictionand you are an expert in your
field and you feel called towrite for sure you should be
writing.
But their first question is Ifeel like I should be doing
this, but is anybody even gonnacare because I'm not the expert.
And they'll give me all thereasons why which is so sad, but
(24:11):
they think that they're not thecat's pajamas and they are.
Dr. Tara (24:16):
But Allison, I was
Allison (24:16):
Was exactly in that situation
Dr. Tara (24:18):
in
Allison (24:19):
20 16, 20
Dr. Tara (24:20):
17
Allison (24:21):
that I didn't
Dr. Tara (24:22):
did I have enough experience
Allison (24:23):
college.
And
Dr. Tara (24:24):
I
Allison (24:24):
I
Dr. Tara (24:24):
sitting
Allison (24:25):
with a
Dr. Tara (24:26):
colleague, I.
Allison (24:28):
for lunch one day and I said, this is my idea.
Dr. Tara (24:30):
And
Allison (24:30):
I
Dr. Tara (24:31):
almost
Allison (24:31):
what
Dr. Tara (24:31):
just said, am I crazy to think that I could
Allison (24:33):
actually
Dr. Tara (24:34):
write an
Allison (24:34):
an interesting book about kindness.
Dr. Tara (24:36):
isn't it just a no-brainer in life?
And she just turned to me andshe said, Tara, this is Your
your
Allison (24:42):
story.
Dr. Tara (24:43):
It's
Allison (24:43):
It's your version
Dr. Tara (24:45):
It
Allison (24:45):
it matters.
Dr. Tara (24:46):
And
Allison (24:47):
And was that little,
Dr. Tara (24:48):
of
Allison (24:49):
of Yeah,
Dr. Tara (24:50):
version of
Allison (24:50):
it, that helped me kind
Dr. Tara (24:53):
get unlocked.
Allison (24:55):
Say something about
Dr. Tara (24:56):
this and
Allison (24:56):
this and it might seem
Dr. Tara (24:57):
but you know what, I bet there is some science about
it.
Allison (24:59):
lemme go look into it.
And that really helped
Dr. Tara (25:01):
shift
Allison (25:02):
things.
That's what I tell people now.
I mean there's, everyone's got astory
Dr. Tara (25:05):
of
Allison (25:06):
of all,
Dr. Tara (25:06):
and
Allison (25:06):
and many people will say, yeah, I should write book
about this.
Dr. Tara (25:09):
I'm like.
Why don't you like what
Allison (25:11):
What would stop you?
Dr. Tara (25:12):
And that's
Allison (25:15):
where
Dr. Tara (25:15):
the
Allison (25:15):
inner critics, I.
Dr. Tara (25:17):
interesting'cause I have identified inner critics,
in my,
Allison (25:19):
And all the storytelling that
Dr. Tara (25:21):
I've
Allison (25:21):
I've heard from
Dr. Tara (25:22):
people
Allison (25:22):
sitting
Dr. Tara (25:23):
from me, there might be
Allison (25:23):
be inner judge, right?
Dr. Tara (25:25):
of you is who do you think you are?
Or there
Allison (25:27):
might be the inner,
Dr. Tara (25:28):
that says, you
Allison (25:29):
you can't do this,
Dr. Tara (25:29):
not
Allison (25:30):
not
Dr. Tara (25:30):
it unless
Allison (25:31):
unless you're
Dr. Tara (25:31):
your ass
Allison (25:32):
off.
This is never gonna happen.
Dr. Tara (25:33):
That harsh, inner bully.
Allison (25:35):
Or there might be
Dr. Tara (25:37):
The
Allison (25:37):
the doom, right?
The detective who just has toresearch everything.
You had mentioned that in thebeginning the constant
Dr. Tara (25:42):
doing before you even get
Allison (25:43):
started
Dr. Tara (25:44):
Have,
Allison (25:44):
has to leave no stone unturned until you're ready.
And
Dr. Tara (25:48):
the right there.
I work with a lot of thosepeople by the
Allison (25:51):
because they're researchers by nature and they
can't help research, you know atsome point,
Dr. Tara (25:55):
no more research,
Allison (25:56):
They research and then they need other people to
validate because they're used topeer reviewed publications.
Dr. Tara (26:05):
There's a lot of
Allison (26:05):
Scrutiny.
So they have to do everythingright, very precise,
Dr. Tara (26:08):
and
Allison (26:08):
and so they have to keep going over things
Dr. Tara (26:10):
over and over
Allison (26:10):
over again.
Dr. Tara (26:11):
It
Allison (26:11):
It's wow,
Dr. Tara (26:12):
really a
Allison (26:13):
a challenge
Dr. Tara (26:14):
to
Allison (26:14):
to break out of that sort of internal algorithm
Dr. Tara (26:17):
that,
Allison (26:17):
gets just cultivated over time.
Dr. Tara (26:20):
And then
Allison (26:20):
And then there's the
Dr. Tara (26:21):
like the nitpicker that
Allison (26:22):
that up.
Everything nice and neat likeyou were saying.
Oh.
Dr. Tara (26:24):
notes and the post-it notes and getting organized.
Like I definitely have a veryloud inner nitpicker.
And even today I was like, oh mygosh, I've got five hours of
clients.
I'm doing this podcast withAllison.
My desk is a mess.
Allison (26:34):
mess.
Dr. Tara (26:35):
I
Allison (26:35):
I need to clean.
Dr. Tara (26:36):
and I'm not
Allison (26:36):
I'm not gonna feel
Dr. Tara (26:37):
clear
Allison (26:38):
or energetically available unless I do.
Dr. Tara (26:40):
I
Allison (26:40):
I just create more of a mess, actually what happens
because, yeah.
And then there's that
Dr. Tara (26:44):
one
Allison (26:45):
part that I think
Dr. Tara (26:46):
Is
Allison (26:47):
there for many high achievers, which is that
Dr. Tara (26:49):
which was
Allison (26:50):
named by
Dr. Tara (26:51):
a student of mine, her
Allison (26:52):
inner
Dr. Tara (26:53):
thief.
And I told her I was adoptingthat as an archetype
Allison (26:57):
Oh yeah.
Dr. Tara (26:58):
people who
Allison (26:59):
who do not allow themselves
Dr. Tara (27:01):
to relax.
Allison (27:03):
rest,
Dr. Tara (27:04):
play.
Find that
Allison (27:06):
that space
Dr. Tara (27:06):
where actually
Allison (27:08):
that space is the birth place and creativity.
Dr. Tara (27:11):
We
Allison (27:11):
We don't let ourselves to, you
Dr. Tara (27:13):
Give those little
Allison (27:13):
knows.
Dr. Tara (27:14):
that we
Allison (27:15):
So we
Dr. Tara (27:16):
to
Allison (27:16):
have to check ourselves
Dr. Tara (27:16):
and then not try to
Allison (27:17):
get rid of those parts.
Dr. Tara (27:20):
We have to
Allison (27:21):
I understand them.
Yeah.
Because the thing that you thinkis a no-brainer is mind blowing
to everyone else.
The thing you think is obviousat, just in general, if you are,
if you're listening and youthink, doesn't everybody know
about kindness?
doesn't everybody know aboutgratefulness?
(27:42):
Doesn't everybody know about howto pitch their book?
Which I thought as a careermarketer and publicist, I'm like
pitching any idea has to do withthe receiver.
Not the, isn't this a good idea,but what is the No, nobody knows
the thing that you think isobvious.
(28:04):
I'm just thinking of all theauthors I work with, They're all
asked the same questions.
Isn't this obvious?
Hasn't this been done before?
No, it hasn't.
It hasn't been done from yourperspective by you in this time.
Which is also different.
Like the thing that you can'tcontrol is now versus a year
ago.
And nobody knows the book thatyou think is the end all be all
(28:29):
book on the topic that you thinkthat everyone, oh, everybody
already has that book.
I've never heard of that bookand that's always the case.
I love pointing out I've, neverread Julia Cameron's book on,
being a writer and going, Yeah.
there are plenty of books thatif you're an expert you think,
oh, it's already been done.
(28:49):
Because everybody knows that.
No, they don't.
There's always room in people'shearts.
And also, even if they have,they do know about whatever the
other book is that you as theauthor think is the thing, what
if they don't connect with thatauthor?
Because it's not just the book,but they have to trust the voice
(29:12):
that's providing it.
Yeah.
Dr. Tara (29:14):
Yeah, I
Allison (29:14):
I always say,
Dr. Tara (29:15):
for everybody,
Allison (29:16):
You just have to find that somebody
Dr. Tara (29:17):
Is.
Allison (29:18):
So keep putting yourself out there because your
story
Dr. Tara (29:20):
you tell it
Allison (29:21):
matters.
Dr. Tara (29:21):
energy and your, the love that you have to give the
world
Allison (29:26):
Matters,
Dr. Tara (29:27):
And
Allison (29:27):
it's a big universe, mean there's 8 billion people in
the world,
Dr. Tara (29:31):
is gonna be an audience for what you have to
say.
And
Allison (29:34):
and have to.
Dr. Tara (29:35):
myself
Allison (29:35):
this constantly, like
Dr. Tara (29:36):
I do not
Allison (29:37):
I do not have this down pat.
Dr. Tara (29:40):
So is
Allison (29:41):
this is why I go back to
Dr. Tara (29:42):
book
Allison (29:42):
book Infectious Dilemma
Dr. Tara (29:44):
Okay,
Allison (29:44):
I thought okay, people don't need a recipe for it.
Dr. Tara (29:47):
I
Allison (29:47):
I have this method, evolve
Dr. Tara (29:48):
really
Allison (29:48):
and it really begins actually with present to life
Dr. Tara (29:51):
because we
Allison (29:52):
because we get still hung up and.
Dr. Tara (29:53):
that we actually aren't present to our life
Allison (29:57):
To validate how we're feeling
Dr. Tara (29:58):
Because another thing that.
Allison (30:00):
the
Dr. Tara (30:00):
High
Allison (30:00):
achievers perfectionists who have like
strong inner
Dr. Tara (30:03):
or
Allison (30:03):
or inner bullies, they
Dr. Tara (30:05):
are
Allison (30:05):
actually are so in control.
Dr. Tara (30:06):
allow themselves to feel.
Allison (30:08):
So sometimes I feel like, oh my gosh, we have to do
Dr. Tara (30:10):
training and empathy towards ourselves And then to
Allison (30:12):
To
Dr. Tara (30:12):
befriend
Allison (30:13):
those,
Dr. Tara (30:14):
that
Allison (30:14):
that imposter feelings, to befriend
Dr. Tara (30:16):
the
Allison (30:17):
the inner critics because
Dr. Tara (30:18):
there,
Allison (30:19):
there because
Dr. Tara (30:19):
they
Allison (30:19):
they're protecting
Dr. Tara (30:20):
you from some
Allison (30:22):
from some perceived danger.
Dr. Tara (30:23):
a threat
Allison (30:23):
Threaten world.
You're
Dr. Tara (30:24):
that you're gonna
Allison (30:24):
gonna get exposed or
Dr. Tara (30:26):
in
Allison (30:26):
some way That comes from story long.
Dr. Tara (30:29):
Let's help
Allison (30:29):
Let's help that part.
Heal,
Dr. Tara (30:30):
let's
Allison (30:31):
Let's help.
Dr. Tara (30:31):
up to say, no, you have arrived right now in this
moment.
So we really need to tend tothose inner critical voices and
not be mad at ourselves and
Allison (30:39):
and
Dr. Tara (30:39):
just,
Allison (30:40):
Just do it.
Because if we could just do it,
Dr. Tara (30:42):
We
Allison (30:42):
we would,
Dr. Tara (30:43):
are
Allison (30:43):
yeah.
Things that get in the way
Dr. Tara (30:46):
we need
Allison (30:46):
and we need to take that step back and create the
space and community to allow
Dr. Tara (30:52):
yourself
Allison (30:52):
yourself
Dr. Tara (30:53):
grow and do these
Allison (30:54):
and these harder things
Dr. Tara (30:55):
And be a beginner, be glad to be a beginner in
something new.
Allison (31:00):
I was gonna ask you that what's a popular tactic
that doesn't work anymore, but Ithink you just hit it.
It's the, just surround yourselfwith people who are doing it and
you do it too, but that neverworks because somebody is always
carrying that weight of I don'tbelong here.
Or you do have to address thething that's keeping you from
(31:24):
enjoying the time or pursuingthe goal.
Mentality or no no pain, no gainor,
Dr. Tara (31:30):
grin and
Allison (31:30):
and bear, like
Dr. Tara (31:31):
those
Allison (31:31):
those sort of edicts that are in our culture
Dr. Tara (31:34):
are
Allison (31:34):
are really problematic.
Because
Dr. Tara (31:36):
if
Allison (31:37):
if we could,
Dr. Tara (31:37):
we would,
Allison (31:39):
but we don't.
Dr. Tara (31:40):
because there's
Allison (31:41):
something else that's underneath the mindset, right?
Dr. Tara (31:43):
simply
Allison (31:44):
this mindset shift of
Dr. Tara (31:46):
scarcity to
Allison (31:47):
to.
Dr. Tara (31:48):
or
Allison (31:48):
Fix mindset to a growth mindset.
Dr. Tara (31:50):
You
Allison (31:51):
You really need to look at the block
Dr. Tara (31:53):
that's
Allison (31:54):
stopping you from doing something that
Dr. Tara (31:55):
you
Allison (31:56):
you understand like
Dr. Tara (31:56):
we are
Allison (31:57):
you're not done.
Like we get it.
Yeah, just do it.
Just go, start that online.
Dr. Tara (32:00):
I've been saying to myself for a year, so that's my,
just do it this year, but it'sreally hard, so I
Allison (32:04):
I need to understand
Dr. Tara (32:05):
like
Allison (32:06):
what's
Dr. Tara (32:07):
there
Allison (32:07):
the block there
Dr. Tara (32:08):
And
Allison (32:08):
and treat it kindly with curiosity and then figure
out maybe what I need iscommunity.
Maybe what I need is help.
Maybe
Dr. Tara (32:15):
It's
Allison (32:15):
it's not about just knowing how to do everything
from the get go
Dr. Tara (32:19):
just dive
Allison (32:20):
dive right in
Dr. Tara (32:21):
without
Allison (32:22):
really having
Dr. Tara (32:24):
a
Allison (32:24):
a safety net for yourself.
Dr. Tara (32:26):
And
Allison (32:26):
And so that's where that self-compassion piece
comes,
Dr. Tara (32:28):
in again, is like
Allison (32:29):
like self-compassion
Dr. Tara (32:30):
is
Allison (32:31):
your own safety net.
Dr. Tara (32:32):
for your really
Allison (32:34):
Protecting your inner work
Dr. Tara (32:36):
your
Allison (32:36):
inner sense of
Dr. Tara (32:37):
Self.
And
Allison (32:39):
and we don't often give ourselves
Dr. Tara (32:42):
The
Allison (32:42):
safety net.
And That comes in relationship.
Dr. Tara (32:45):
and those parts that are scared.
Relationship with other peoplewho may know just a little bit
more than us, doesn't have to bethe top expert in the world, but
maybe someone who's 10% ahead ofyou.
Talk to that person.
Get that kind of support, whichis what you provide actually in
some of
Allison (32:58):
Actually
Dr. Tara (32:59):
your programs.
Allison (33:00):
program, right?
It's intended because so manywomen I work with are like you.
They're completely busy and theydon't think they have time'cause
they are not sure they're goingto get a benefit out of
something that they have todevote, an hour a month to.
But because I am the glue in thenext chapter Network, which is a
(33:27):
network of high achieving womenwho are all doing the things,
speakers, writers, mediacontributors, authors they're
all doing.
A profession as well.
They're not just speakers, butthey're speakers because they
teach at the university orthey're seeing patients or
(33:49):
they're memoirs sharing a reallyimportant experience and
insight.
But if they're not together,they don't have, they don't have
the opportunity for theunexpected learning and the.
Unanticipated, surprisecollaboration because the, and
(34:14):
that's why I love.
The the network is because whenI see you, you folks together,
I'm like, oh, I, you wouldn'teven know to get introduced, but
I've gotta make the introductionbecause there's something that's
cool there, but it only takes aminute for me to say, Dr.
(34:36):
Tara, you need to know, so andso because you're both, this
interest in mind or you, but youwouldn't necessarily know that
unless someone made the introand you made time for it.
I'm so glad, I'm so glad thatwe're talking about it.
Dr. Tara (34:52):
Yeah.
I think,
Allison (34:53):
I think just
Dr. Tara (34:54):
thing about that piece
Allison (34:55):
that piece is
Dr. Tara (34:56):
you are
Allison (34:56):
what you were
Dr. Tara (34:57):
creating in your community and
Allison (34:59):
in your community and what women can find communities
Dr. Tara (35:02):
own
Allison (35:02):
in their own
Dr. Tara (35:03):
ways
Allison (35:03):
ways
Dr. Tara (35:04):
that
Allison (35:04):
is that
Dr. Tara (35:05):
you
Allison (35:05):
you can't learn
Dr. Tara (35:07):
or do something
Allison (35:07):
If you're playing
Dr. Tara (35:08):
you're playing safe.
Allison (35:09):
Right?
Dr. Tara (35:10):
But you
Allison (35:10):
But you also can't do
Dr. Tara (35:11):
it
Allison (35:11):
it if you're overwhelmed
Dr. Tara (35:12):
because
Allison (35:13):
because that shuts down
Dr. Tara (35:14):
Motivation, but if
Allison (35:16):
But if you can find places where you feel safely
challenged, that's why I thinkthe
Dr. Tara (35:20):
good
Allison (35:21):
good stuff happens
Dr. Tara (35:22):
is
Allison (35:23):
you have to feel safe enough and comfortable that
Dr. Tara (35:26):
You can take
Allison (35:28):
take those steps forward.
You.
Dr. Tara (35:29):
It really, it's just like a toddler, right?
Parents are gonna make sure thatthe glass coffee tables are
covered and protected, but
Allison (35:36):
Let that child roam around, fall on his little,
bottom and then stand back up.
I, we all need to be safelychallenged in those kind of
days,
Dr. Tara (35:43):
And
Allison (35:43):
and that's, I think, where thriving really happens
Dr. Tara (35:46):
versus
Allison (35:47):
being in that survival mode.
Dr. Tara (35:48):
is overwhelm.
When we're in overwhelm, we'repretty much
Allison (35:51):
Hustling
Dr. Tara (35:52):
We're in
Allison (35:53):
for in that survival zone.
And we're
Dr. Tara (35:54):
thriving.
And
Allison (35:55):
And when we're safe,
Dr. Tara (35:56):
we're too
Allison (35:57):
we're too complacent,
Dr. Tara (35:58):
right?
Allison (35:58):
We're in a more, maybe almost more avoidance
Dr. Tara (36:00):
that's
Allison (36:01):
that's not gonna get us any farther.
So we have to find that sort ofnice,
Dr. Tara (36:04):
A sort
Allison (36:04):
Sweet spot of being
Dr. Tara (36:05):
challenged.
And I think writing
Allison (36:07):
are
Dr. Tara (36:08):
a
Allison (36:08):
complace to do that because
Dr. Tara (36:10):
other people
Allison (36:12):
who
Dr. Tara (36:12):
might
Allison (36:12):
might be at the beginning.
Dr. Tara (36:13):
they're a little bit farther than you, or they've
already done one thing already,and then they
Allison (36:18):
You become this amazing resource
Dr. Tara (36:19):
for
Allison (36:20):
for you to sustain your own really internal motivation.
There's always something I thinkgood that can come out of
community.
But you have to show up for it.
You have to make space for it,
Dr. Tara (36:32):
community.
And
Allison (36:33):
and it does have to be the right,
Dr. Tara (36:34):
to do the little Goldilocks thing right?
It's is this one right or isthis one right?
Allison (36:39):
right.
Because it's maternal feelinglike
Dr. Tara (36:42):
ugh.
It's like a
Allison (36:43):
it's a feeling of relief.
Dr. Tara (36:44):
this is the right place for me.
Allison (36:46):
Right.
Dr.
Tara, let me pivot and ask youfor a book reco.
What is a book that you wannashare today?
Dr. Tara (36:56):
oh my
Allison (36:56):
oh my gosh.
Dr. Tara (36:57):
past year I read a couple of really good books.
I think my favorite one thoughis it's a book
Allison (37:02):
It's a book of fiction.
Dr. Tara (37:02):
called
Allison (37:03):
called Wayward, and it's spelled
Dr. Tara (37:05):
WEY.
WARD, which actually has like ameaning, but you have to read
the book for it.
But it's by Amelia Hart.
Allison (37:13):
It's
Dr. Tara (37:13):
really
Allison (37:14):
kind
Dr. Tara (37:14):
Like witches in a way.
Or, energy healers, that goback,
Allison (37:18):
you.
Dr. Tara (37:18):
a couple centuries and this sort of family line of
having this gift of intuitionand healing.
Allison (37:25):
That's the, that happens along the way.
Dr. Tara (37:26):
along the way.
Allison (37:26):
As I'm very interested in psychology, energy medicine,
so I love any stories
Dr. Tara (37:31):
that
Allison (37:31):
that are about
Dr. Tara (37:32):
these unappreciated
Allison (37:36):
gifts of nature,
Dr. Tara (37:37):
especially for
Allison (37:39):
for women who are,
Dr. Tara (37:39):
are intuitive
Allison (37:41):
and.
Dr. Tara (37:41):
have these sort of intuitive powers of healing.
Allison (37:44):
It was a great read and it was first generation.
Dr. Tara (37:47):
I
Allison (37:48):
Oh, I'm gonna put the link in the show notes.
This is my next read.
I cannot wait.
Dr. Tara (37:54):
yeah I
Allison (37:54):
I love,
Dr. Tara (37:55):
know when the book came out, but I saw a
description
Allison (37:58):
I think it was 2023.
Dr. Tara (38:00):
maybe.
Allison (38:01):
pretty recently.
Dr. Tara (38:02):
Yeah.
Allison (38:03):
It's a fun
Dr. Tara (38:03):
read and I really enjoyed it
Allison (38:04):
it and I read it.
Wow.
That's high praise.
Dr. Tara (38:08):
I know.
Allison (38:09):
Okay, we will put your book link in the show notes.
Dr. Tara (38:14):
Okay.
Allison (38:15):
in the show notes if you wanna join.
We would love to have you.
And before we call this podcastcomplete, Dr.
Tara, what is one thing youwanna leave people with?
Dr. Tara (38:28):
I just wanna let
Allison (38:28):
I just wanna let people know that they're worthy of love
and belonging and that theirstory matters
Dr. Tara (38:32):
we
Allison (38:33):
and we need to hear it
Dr. Tara (38:34):
hear
Allison (38:34):
hear it.
Dr. Tara (38:35):
are
Allison (38:35):
We're being
Dr. Tara (38:36):
So
Allison (38:36):
so please
Dr. Tara (38:37):
share your
Allison (38:38):
your stories.
Dr. Tara (38:39):
with the world.
Allison (38:41):
Oh, perfect.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And thank you, listener.
Wherever you are sitting incarpool.
I know you are.
'cause that is my life too.
We are so glad you're showing upfor yourself and sharing this.
Do your friends a solid.
(39:03):
If this podcast, someone whoneeds to hear Dr.
Tara's message, stop right now.
Put your car in park.
Make sure you're not gonna rollover a elementary school kid and
share it.
Just send it to someone whoneeds it, because the way that
(39:24):
we can help people is to sharewhat we know.
Otherwise they're never gonnaknow, and you're never gonna
remember later.
So do it now.
It helps people also find uswhen you leave a review, leave a
five star review.
It helps the algorithm and theinfrastructure and the matrix.
(39:49):
Show the podcast to people whoneed it.
So thank you.
I will see you next week.
We don't want to get rid of that striving for
(00:02):
excellence.
Like that's a really importantvalue.
It's important to feel likeyou're doing quality, meaningful
work in the world.
But you don't need to suffer asyou do it.
Allison (00:36):
Welcome back to the Author's Edge.
I am your host, Allison Lane,and I am here for you.
I'm so glad you're showing upfor yourself and making time to
make yourself a better marketerfor your own being and for the
book that you meant to write 10years ago, but you wrote now.
(00:58):
Or the book that you are juststarting to figure out what does
it wanna be.
Or if you're on your eighthbook, it doesn't matter.
We all need to be bettermarketers of ourselves and also
the books we're writing.
So, you're in the right place.
Sit back wherever you are.
(01:18):
Probably, in the target parkinglot'cause that's where I listen
to the podcast that have timeto.
And let me dive in because todayI'm so happy to welcome Dr.
Tara Cousineau to the show.
She's a clinical psychologist, ameditation teacher.
She is yogarefic.
(01:39):
And she helps high achievers letgo of perfectionism and step
into the opportunity they haveto do the thing that they always
wanted to do, but withconfidence and joy.
Who doesn't want that?
She's also a psychologist atHarvard's Counseling and mental
(02:03):
health services.
She's has her own privatepractice.
Her new book also is thePerfectionist Dilemma.
Learn the art of self-Compassionand become a happy achiever.
This book is so good.
You'll hear during the interviewhow it has changed me and what
(02:24):
the changes I've made to even myschedule are.
I can't wait to hear how you arechanged.
When you read it too, you'll seeall the links for her book and
the book she recommends and allthe things we talk about in the
show notes.
But let's now dive in.
Welcome, Dr.
(02:45):
Tara Kusano.
We're both in the afterglow ofyour book launch event at the
Harvard bookstore called TheCoop, which I thought was co-op,
but then I got corrected by aclient who's written 22 books,
and he was like no, it's theCoop, Allison.
And I was like, oh, okay.
I'm so not an insider.
(03:07):
But now I am.
Now I'm in the inner circle.
So, congratulations on your booklaunch of this amazing thing,
the perfectionist dilemma.
I keep telling you, how muchyou've helped me already, and
this baby's only been out for acouple weeks.
But the subtitle says it all tome, the learn the art of
(03:28):
self-compassion and become ahappy achiever.
As a high achiever and aperfectionist myself.
Like I do wanna still achieve,but I don't wanna feel the
weight of the guilt of which Ithink we always do of but you
didn't do all this other stuff.
And that's what we focus on.
And I wanna be able to celebrateeverything that I am doing, but
(03:54):
also that I want other people.
So, for those listening in whoare just as busy as you are with
working full-time and servingpatients, or teaching students,
or cause listeners, I know thatyou're listening in the car on
your way somewhere'cause you'retrying to fit this in.
(04:15):
I want to ask you Dr.
Tara, about all those highachievers out there who are
probably making some commonmistakes when it comes to
looking at their own success.
So, let's just kick off by youhelping us understand what are
(04:36):
those common mistakes, and youcan use me as an example if you
want to.
Dr. Tara (04:40):
No.
Okay.
Thanks for having me, first ofall.
It's an excellent question tostart with because I literally
just had an hour consult withsomeone who has achieved a great
deal in her young life, and I.
said to her previously in thepast, when you accomplish your
(05:03):
degree, when that happens, savorit.
Stay with it.
Stay with it longer than youmight because people who are
high achieving.
they reach this goal and thenthey're on to the next thing and
they don't actually absorb ormetabolize Or integrate
Allison (05:24):
just had this
Dr. Tara (05:25):
milestone.
Allison (05:26):
huge milestone
Dr. Tara (05:27):
And it makes me sad actually, is that they're not
actually appreciating their ownsuccesses or their own, efforts.
They're just on the next thing.
And it's, a tricky part of the,of, I think of the mind that we
get into that trap.
Allison (05:41):
I wanna just breathe through it.
'cause I'm thinking we all dothat, but why do we do that?
Every woman I know is quick tosay oh, thanks but what I really
needed to do was this.
Where does that come from?
We can't even take a compliment.
Dr. Tara (05:59):
Exactly.
I think that comes fromconditioning.
I think for girls and women,it's very much a How we need to
continually prove ourselves overand over again in order to
achieve some sort of status orideal, Whether in a job partner
(06:20):
looks, Appearance, friendships,where you live, And it's not our
fault.
It's not, this is for men too.
If they're listening, it's notyour fault.
We are seeped in a culture, astew of materialism and
consumerism And the bars keepgetting raised more and more to
the clinic.
What more can you do withoutgetting worked out?
(06:41):
And that's usually, it out.
Allison (06:42):
Yeah.
They burn themselves out andthen they have to take time
because sometimes they're like,I'm just gonna take the weekend.
Oh, go crazy.
Dr. Tara (06:51):
Right as at 48 hours is really yeah.
lifetime.
Allison (06:54):
A lifetime, right.
Or they have to take a step back'cause they're like, no, my
health is suffering.
But what I really see is womenwho are high achieving and men
too.
But high achieving, and theyachieve the thing that they
thought they always wanted.
They're at the height of theirindustry or their field.
(07:18):
And then not only have theyachieved it, but then they
fizzle out because then what?
Like they've been aperfectionist their whole lives.
They've been a high achieving.
They've beat themself up.
They haven't savored anything.
They get to the top and they'relike, it's not like WW, but it
(07:38):
is what else is gonna drive youif there's nothing else to drive
you?
Because they've been lettingexternal forces dictate what
their success was.
And we were talking about this alittle offline last night after
your book event.
And I just find that resonatingwith me as somebody who reached
(08:02):
heights and my first 25 years,or even my first 10 years I was,
considered a rising star andthen as, a superstar, then
whatever.
But I never celebrated it.
I always thought, oh, I just,this is, I'm just a little me
from rural Maryland with myMaryland accent.
I can't even say rural.
It's hard.
(08:23):
But then we achieve theseheights and particularly for
writers who oftentimes they areat the top of their field, but
they don't know the path towriting a book Because it wasn't
part of their career path.
So as I'm on this, campaign foreveryone to think bigger about
(08:44):
the ripple effect they can havein the world, I really want you
to speak to the person who'sachieve the thing they thought
they would achieve, but theyhave more to give.
So how do we unlock that?
Dr. Tara (08:58):
Unlocking is a good word.
Allison (09:00):
I think
Dr. Tara (09:01):
what happens, at least in my experience, with high
achievers is we actually, ournervous systems to the constant
achievement that we don't.
Allison (09:10):
Feels
Dr. Tara (09:10):
like
Allison (09:11):
to
Dr. Tara (09:11):
a pause or take a rest
Allison (09:13):
us,
Dr. Tara (09:13):
or savor, and we
Allison (09:14):
we actually disconnect
Dr. Tara (09:16):
sometimes from the feelings, from the
Allison (09:18):
from the feelings, from the meaning,
Dr. Tara (09:19):
the
Allison (09:19):
the purpose that got you started
Dr. Tara (09:22):
place.
Allison (09:24):
I always want
Dr. Tara (09:25):
people to
Allison (09:26):
to recognize that their
Dr. Tara (09:28):
their
Allison (09:29):
value has been in their effort
Dr. Tara (09:31):
all
Allison (09:31):
along and
Dr. Tara (09:32):
about what's on the outside, it's what's in the
inside.
And that gets obscured withbeing on this treadmill of
succeeding.
Allison (09:43):
And when it comes to I easy for me to write books I
really struggled with that.
Dr. Tara (09:48):
I didn't
Allison (09:48):
I didn't think I was good.
Dr. Tara (09:49):
did I think I Did what I have
Allison (09:50):
I have to,
Dr. Tara (09:51):
Did it
Allison (09:51):
did it even matter?
Dr. Tara (09:52):
Would I
Allison (09:53):
would I say that would be any different than somebody
else who's in.
Dr. Tara (09:55):
Than the comparing mind settles in.
And we can't help the comparingmind either because that's
actually how our brain operates.
Allison (10:02):
But when we start to negatively compare ourselves to
Dr. Tara (10:05):
To ideals, who have made these,
Allison (10:07):
people's rights, life,
Dr. Tara (10:09):
We
Allison (10:09):
we actually,
Dr. Tara (10:09):
their
Allison (10:10):
their backstory, which is probably 20
Dr. Tara (10:12):
years of really hard work also.
So
Allison (10:14):
so we forget that.
Dr. Tara (10:16):
things
Allison (10:16):
actually don't happen that there
Dr. Tara (10:18):
There are
Allison (10:19):
all these other
Dr. Tara (10:19):
out
Allison (10:20):
out there,
Dr. Tara (10:21):
we might
Allison (10:21):
we might be comparing ourselves to the wrong
Dr. Tara (10:23):
step.
Allison (10:24):
and the trajectory.
Dr. Tara (10:25):
like how
Allison (10:26):
Like how do you get started on something
Dr. Tara (10:28):
without
Allison (10:29):
being perfect, without it all figured out?
Dr. Tara (10:32):
And that actually
Allison (10:33):
Actually,
Dr. Tara (10:33):
is a practice of self-compassion.
To go back to the
Allison (10:35):
SubT.
Dr. Tara (10:36):
of my book is you have to actually
Allison (10:40):
Really
Dr. Tara (10:41):
kind to
Allison (10:41):
to yourself along the way because you're doing
something that might be new,might feel like
Dr. Tara (10:45):
imposter.
Those
Allison (10:47):
are the thoughts
Dr. Tara (10:48):
that often
Allison (10:49):
arise,
Dr. Tara (10:50):
And
Allison (10:51):
to remind yourself that
Dr. Tara (10:53):
I'm actually doing something new.
Allison (10:55):
it's okay
Dr. Tara (10:56):
to be a beginner.
And I think high achievers don'tlike being beginners.
Allison (11:00):
High achievers want to, they might be a beginner, but
they want an a plus out of thegate.
And they like all their ducks tobe in a row as well.
And so that's why we seeprocrast to learning And
procrast them to get prepared,Which is the worst kind of
preparing.
(11:20):
I'm organizing so that I'll beorganized when oh my God, let's
just do it Lord have mercy.
No and high achievers theyoftentimes, they think that they
have to earn the right to do thenext thing is what I notice.
This is what you'll have to talkme through this.
But when they do breakout,unlock their imagined perceived
(11:46):
next step of, I'm going to speakat a conference that's not an
industry conference, but it'slike a global conference.
And they realize oh, this wasavailable all along, but there's
just no like hierarchical stepto that.
So, you really have to unlockyour own potential.
So that you can go for the thingthat no one has invited you to.
(12:10):
But the invitation is universal,it's ubiquitous, it's available
to everyone.
So like for you, I'm sure youhave colleagues who have not
written a book, you decided towrite a book, so good on you.
That's my point is you're anexpert in your field.
You are a psychologist at theHarvard counseling center and
(12:33):
you have your own privatepractice and you wrote a book.
Because you decided you weregoing to do that.
You didn't wait for someone tosay, you've achieved enough.
It's now time.
So I wanna help other peopleunlock that.
Truth
Dr. Tara (12:50):
To
Allison (12:51):
to write my first book,
Dr. Tara (12:51):
book, which is a kindness I mean, it's not like a
heavy topic, but I I had.
important meaning behind it.
That kind of got my butt in thechair actually, to Actually,
writing.
and that was that wasn't itactually wasn't about me that
the book was actually a messageFor my daughters people in the
(13:12):
community.
So, I had to take myself, my egooutta it and remind myself I I
have an opinion, I have aperspective, I have something
share, and I'm just the channelfor it.
And there might be other peoplewho have a message.
they're the channel For theirversion of the message.
But I have, version, so I had toflip the script Literally,
(13:33):
clearly internally that itwasn't about am I gonna do this
right?
Is this even important?
Who do I think I'm say waitminute.
I have something that I wannashare And I made it personal in
I wanted to leave somethingbehind for my daughters.
I thought, oh, drop deadtomorrow.
Cheese.
Okay.
(13:53):
It's a good practice inmindfulness circles.
It's actually a good practiceThis.
moment, if this was your day, ifthis is your week, how would you
spend your life?
I'll tell you what?
You wouldn't be looking at yourto-do list.
You would be connecting withpeople.
You were to Appreciating peoplebe You would be doing kind and
generous acts.
So I, my kids were in highschool coming to the end of high
(14:14):
school.
It was a crazy busy timehousehold.
And I was like, okay, But thethe world was mean.
Allison (14:19):
Daughter got beaten up
Dr. Tara (14:20):
There was like
Allison (14:21):
crazy.
Dr. Tara (14:21):
were happening.
I was like, wait a minute, whathappened to kindness?
And that's what got my
Allison (14:25):
My first book started.
I was like, I wanna look intothis a little bit deeper.
Dr. Tara (14:29):
With the
Allison (14:29):
The perfectionist, the one that just came out.
Dr. Tara (14:32):
I I had been working with emerging adults, young
people you
Allison (14:37):
Who
Dr. Tara (14:37):
have
Allison (14:38):
been
Dr. Tara (14:39):
high achievers,
Allison (14:39):
like
Dr. Tara (14:40):
for whatever, 18 years.
Allison (14:42):
18 years, and here they're,
Dr. Tara (14:43):
and
Allison (14:44):
and now they have all this
Dr. Tara (14:45):
syndrome happening and or really hard on themselves,
like internalizing this constantmessage
Allison (14:52):
that you have to keep,
Dr. Tara (14:53):
W
Allison (14:53):
working hard.
Dr. Tara (14:54):
you have to
Allison (14:55):
You have to prove yourself constantly,
Dr. Tara (14:57):
which
Allison (14:58):
which is when I was like, I gotta actually do
something.
Dr. Tara (15:00):
help
Allison (15:00):
help these people.
Because I was actually in thesame exact position when I was
getting my PhD, and so Ithought.
Dr. Tara (15:05):
okay.
The The perfectionists have suchgreat intentions.
Allison (15:10):
They
Dr. Tara (15:10):
wanna do good things in the world.
They They wanna be beproductive.
There's some sense of, Reallywonderful agency.
And then they, up, yeah, likebut that's the dilemma.
And then they suffer.
So So in all these wonderfulthings that.
do and the new learning andmaking some wave in the world,
(15:30):
they they beat themselves upalong the way.
Oh Oh my gosh, Can can you dothat without the suffering?
So So that was the impetus forthe perfectionist alumni is that
we don't want to get rid of thatstriving for excellence.
Like that's a really importantvalue.
It's important to feel likeyou're doing quality, meaningful
work in the world.
But you don't need to suffer asyou do it.
Allison (15:52):
I'm so moved by that.
I feel like everyone needs tohear that feeling that you
should have achieved somethingalready is such a way to beat
yourself up, especially when youhave so much value to provide so
much wisdom and kindness to passon.
(16:12):
And what I find about nonfictionauthors is that they're driven
to help.
it's never, oh, I wanna put mystamp on the world like that.
look at my fist.
for those of you not watching onYouTube, put your stamp on the
world looks like you're gonnapunch the world that is not what
(16:34):
I'm talking about.
I'm talking about offeringsomething with open hands, like
you are offering knowledge andperspective and lessons and
steps that people can interpretas their own.
But Dr.
Tara, if you hadn't writtenthese two books, that would all
(16:56):
still be in your noggin and onlyknown by the people who see you
professionally and by yourpeers.
And it's too small of a circle.
Expanding your ripple effect iswhat I'm talking about.
the good, knock on effect thatyou can have is so much larger
(17:16):
when you write a book.
now let me ask this otherquestion, which is about how in
a world that glorifies hustle,culture, and perfection, which
is just, anything I do the speedof light is actually not
perfect.
It's always messy and not great.
(17:38):
But what is a big shift you'veseen recently in the way that
people approach their own mentalhealth and growth in that type
of, maybe it's a old, I don'tknow if it's an old perspective,
but hustle or your side hustleor you've got to do something,
(18:00):
but it has to be perfect out ofthe gate.
Have you seen a shift?
God, I hope you have.
Please say yes.
You know
Dr. Tara (18:06):
I'm I'm a yes And the
Allison (18:09):
oh.
Dr. Tara (18:09):
why I see the shift, there's no yes, but here, but,
Allison (18:12):
And the reason
Dr. Tara (18:13):
because
Allison (18:13):
because I'm in
Dr. Tara (18:14):
a
Allison (18:14):
almost a privileged
Dr. Tara (18:15):
situation of
Allison (18:16):
of being
Dr. Tara (18:17):
a
Allison (18:17):
a clinical psychologist,
Dr. Tara (18:19):
that
Allison (18:20):
people come to me because they've had this first
step of self.
Something has happened in theirlife where they
Dr. Tara (18:27):
recognize
Allison (18:28):
that
Dr. Tara (18:29):
they're,
Allison (18:29):
they
Dr. Tara (18:30):
need to
Allison (18:30):
to make a shift.
They might not know.
Dr. Tara (18:32):
exactly, but they've had that awareness with high
Allison (18:36):
Achievers often,
Dr. Tara (18:36):
often, or, and with perfectionist in
Allison (18:39):
particularly
Dr. Tara (18:40):
That moment of
Allison (18:42):
that moment of self-awareness
Dr. Tara (18:43):
is
Allison (18:43):
is often
Dr. Tara (18:44):
because their
Allison (18:45):
their body shut down.
Dr. Tara (18:46):
They've gotten an illness.
Allison (18:48):
For me it was like,
Dr. Tara (18:49):
TMJI
Allison (18:50):
TMJ
Dr. Tara (18:50):
having,
Allison (18:50):
having
Dr. Tara (18:51):
I was having
Allison (18:52):
nerve pain in my
Dr. Tara (18:53):
I didn't know what,
Allison (18:54):
where that coming from?
Dr. Tara (18:55):
whatever, 32 years old, maybe at the
Allison (18:57):
Time.
Dr. Tara (18:58):
that couldn't
Allison (19:00):
tell it to myself, but my body did, and then I.
Dr. Tara (19:04):
out why.
And the why was because I was onthis sort of, that Brene Brown
thing, like hustling forworthiness, right?
That we
Allison (19:10):
Get on this treadmill
Dr. Tara (19:12):
of
Allison (19:12):
of doing and achieving,
Dr. Tara (19:14):
And then
Allison (19:14):
and then if we feel productive,
Dr. Tara (19:15):
it
Allison (19:16):
it means we're worthy.
Dr. Tara (19:17):
And
Allison (19:17):
And so
Dr. Tara (19:18):
we
Allison (19:18):
we have to notice that we've been on this
Dr. Tara (19:20):
pro
Allison (19:21):
productivity treadmill
Dr. Tara (19:23):
and
Allison (19:23):
and
Dr. Tara (19:24):
exhausted
Allison (19:25):
ourselves that we're
Dr. Tara (19:26):
enjoying what we're doing anymore.
Allison (19:28):
so that.
Dr. Tara (19:29):
all.
Allison (19:29):
Also when people
Dr. Tara (19:30):
when people
Allison (19:31):
come to me, they're like,
Dr. Tara (19:32):
don't
Allison (19:32):
I don't think I'm join this.
Dr. Tara (19:34):
And
Allison (19:35):
And that's a really important moment of recognition
Dr. Tara (19:39):
To
Allison (19:40):
start to make some shifts in,
Dr. Tara (19:42):
and they don't have to be huge ones.
They can be small, consistent,subtle shifts to get back into
some balance or maybe justcultivate balance for the first
time in your life.
Allison (19:55):
yeah.
Those small, what seems like asmall shift.
But I told you, and I keeptelling people that I read your
book and I was like, oh my gosh.
I am always, no matter where Iam, I'm always prepared to do
two other things.
If there's even a gap in myattention, like I've got
(20:16):
podcasts queued up and I've gotmy laptop with me and my go
Bagg, which, why do I need a GoBagg?
Allison.
So you made me notice that I wasgo Gogo.
And when I allowed myself timeto drive around and not have a
podcast on and actually enjoythe radio silence so that I was
(20:41):
like, oh my gosh, I feel so muchbetter.
And I was able to observe thatthere were things on my to-do
list that were never gonna getdone that weren't interesting or
important or urgent, and I couldonly do that once I gave myself
space.
(21:03):
Which I had to force myself totake my pile of sticky notes and
write them all out in onenotebook so I could see them all
side by side.
'cause I had been carryingaround a stack of sticky notes
that were all scribbled on fortwo months.
Allison?
Dr. Tara (21:21):
so I
Allison (21:22):
I wonder,
Dr. Tara (21:23):
and we're not gonna do any
Allison (21:23):
any therapy, Come on, this is why I do this.
Dr. Tara (21:26):
my def, here's my definition of perfectionism.
And
Allison (21:29):
And whether it's productivity or workaholism,
you.
Dr. Tara (21:32):
you can give it whatever label you want, but the
way that I have come around todefining perfectionism is that
Allison (21:38):
It's
Dr. Tara (21:38):
the
Allison (21:39):
the paradox
Dr. Tara (21:40):
created
Allison (21:40):
by the need for belonging or the converse,
Dr. Tara (21:44):
the
Allison (21:44):
the fear of rejection,
Dr. Tara (21:46):
paired with
Allison (21:47):
with unrealistic expectations for
Dr. Tara (21:49):
for
Allison (21:49):
achievement
Dr. Tara (21:50):
And approval
Allison (21:51):
and that,
Dr. Tara (21:52):
your energy or life force.
Allison (21:55):
yeah.
That's what I'm hearing from youis that,
Dr. Tara (21:57):
that filling,
Allison (21:58):
that time gap
Dr. Tara (22:00):
with
Allison (22:00):
something to do
Dr. Tara (22:02):
is
Allison (22:03):
really
Dr. Tara (22:03):
the
Allison (22:04):
the way that your system,
Dr. Tara (22:05):
your
Allison (22:06):
mind, body, heart system is.
Dr. Tara (22:08):
is trying
Allison (22:09):
To
Dr. Tara (22:11):
make
Allison (22:11):
yourself
Dr. Tara (22:12):
feel.
Important or
Allison (22:15):
or worthy or responsible.
Dr. Tara (22:17):
You've
Allison (22:17):
you've got Family to take care of
Dr. Tara (22:20):
and and at the same time, it's gonna stand up your
energy life force.
And people will
Allison (22:26):
will say that's, alright.
That's a little bit out there.
Dr. Tara (22:27):
that's why
Allison (22:28):
why people come in.
Because their
Dr. Tara (22:30):
their
Allison (22:30):
energy is gone.
Dr. Tara (22:31):
It's
Allison (22:31):
It's like
Dr. Tara (22:32):
they've
Allison (22:33):
they've just
Dr. Tara (22:34):
Burned the
Allison (22:34):
the candle at both ends, and
Dr. Tara (22:37):
that's that
Allison (22:38):
that awareness status.
Dr. Tara (22:39):
I'm burning the candle at both ends.
Allison (22:42):
This is just too hard.
And now I wanna write a book.
Dr. Tara (22:44):
am?
Allison (22:44):
I'm because of?
What happens is when you don'trecognize you're having
Dr. Tara (22:47):
this
Allison (22:48):
this sort of experience of depletion is the inner
Dr. Tara (22:51):
critics will storm
Allison (22:53):
right?
In with,
Dr. Tara (22:54):
with Yeah.
Allison (22:55):
yeah.
Who do you think,
Dr. Tara (22:56):
you are
Allison (22:57):
And then we have to be really mindful
Dr. Tara (22:58):
that.
We
Allison (22:59):
we have inner critic narratives
Dr. Tara (23:01):
that will
Allison (23:01):
will fill in the space
Dr. Tara (23:03):
and
Allison (23:03):
and then
Dr. Tara (23:03):
sabotage
Allison (23:05):
Yeah.
That inner critic is somethingthat I witness a lot in working
with women particularly is thatthey know that other people see
them as an expert.
And then they finally find meand they say, am I crazy?
is anyone even gonna beinterested in this book idea?
(23:27):
And you know what I always sayis, first of all, you are a big
effing deal.
And if you are someone who hasfound this podcast, you also are
a big effing deal.
Because there are a ton of, youcan find your inner writer
podcasts and those have theirplace.
But this podcast is aboutgetting some poo done.
(23:49):
And if you're writing nonfictionand you are an expert in your
field and you feel called towrite for sure you should be
writing.
But their first question is Ifeel like I should be doing
this, but is anybody even gonnacare because I'm not the expert.
And they'll give me all thereasons why which is so sad, but
(24:11):
they think that they're not thecat's pajamas and they are.
Dr. Tara (24:16):
But Allison, I was
Allison (24:16):
Was exactly in that situation
Dr. Tara (24:18):
in
Allison (24:19):
20 16, 20
Dr. Tara (24:20):
17
Allison (24:21):
that I didn't
Dr. Tara (24:22):
did I have enough experience
Allison (24:23):
college.
And
Dr. Tara (24:24):
I
Allison (24:24):
I
Dr. Tara (24:24):
sitting
Allison (24:25):
with a
Dr. Tara (24:26):
colleague, I.
Allison (24:28):
for lunch one day and I said, this is my idea.
Dr. Tara (24:30):
And
Allison (24:30):
I
Dr. Tara (24:31):
almost
Allison (24:31):
what
Dr. Tara (24:31):
just said, am I crazy to think that I could
Allison (24:33):
actually
Dr. Tara (24:34):
write an
Allison (24:34):
an interesting book about kindness.
Dr. Tara (24:36):
isn't it just a no-brainer in life?
And she just turned to me andshe said, Tara, this is Your
your
Allison (24:42):
story.
Dr. Tara (24:43):
It's
Allison (24:43):
It's your version
Dr. Tara (24:45):
It
Allison (24:45):
it matters.
Dr. Tara (24:46):
And
Allison (24:47):
And was that little,
Dr. Tara (24:48):
of
Allison (24:49):
of Yeah,
Dr. Tara (24:50):
version of
Allison (24:50):
it, that helped me kind
Dr. Tara (24:53):
get unlocked.
Allison (24:55):
Say something about
Dr. Tara (24:56):
this and
Allison (24:56):
this and it might seem
Dr. Tara (24:57):
but you know what, I bet there is some science about
it.
Allison (24:59):
lemme go look into it.
And that really helped
Dr. Tara (25:01):
shift
Allison (25:02):
things.
That's what I tell people now.
I mean there's, everyone's got astory
Dr. Tara (25:05):
of
Allison (25:06):
of all,
Dr. Tara (25:06):
and
Allison (25:06):
and many people will say, yeah, I should write book
about this.
Dr. Tara (25:09):
I'm like.
Why don't you like what
Allison (25:11):
What would stop you?
Dr. Tara (25:12):
And that's
Allison (25:15):
where
Dr. Tara (25:15):
the
Allison (25:15):
inner critics, I.
Dr. Tara (25:17):
interesting'cause I have identified inner critics,
in my,
Allison (25:19):
And all the storytelling that
Dr. Tara (25:21):
I've
Allison (25:21):
I've heard from
Dr. Tara (25:22):
people
Allison (25:22):
sitting
Dr. Tara (25:23):
from me, there might be
Allison (25:23):
be inner judge, right?
Dr. Tara (25:25):
of you is who do you think you are?
Or there
Allison (25:27):
might be the inner,
Dr. Tara (25:28):
that says, you
Allison (25:29):
you can't do this,
Dr. Tara (25:29):
not
Allison (25:30):
not
Dr. Tara (25:30):
it unless
Allison (25:31):
unless you're
Dr. Tara (25:31):
your ass
Allison (25:32):
off.
This is never gonna happen.
Dr. Tara (25:33):
That harsh, inner bully.
Allison (25:35):
Or there might be
Dr. Tara (25:37):
The
Allison (25:37):
the doom, right?
The detective who just has toresearch everything.
You had mentioned that in thebeginning the constant
Dr. Tara (25:42):
doing before you even get
Allison (25:43):
started
Dr. Tara (25:44):
Have,
Allison (25:44):
has to leave no stone unturned until you're ready.
And
Dr. Tara (25:48):
the right there.
I work with a lot of thosepeople by the
Allison (25:51):
because they're researchers by nature and they
can't help research, you know atsome point,
Dr. Tara (25:55):
no more research,
Allison (25:56):
They research and then they need other people to
validate because they're used topeer reviewed publications.
Dr. Tara (26:05):
There's a lot of
Allison (26:05):
Scrutiny.
So they have to do everythingright, very precise,
Dr. Tara (26:08):
and
Allison (26:08):
and so they have to keep going over things
Dr. Tara (26:10):
over and over
Allison (26:10):
over again.
Dr. Tara (26:11):
It
Allison (26:11):
It's wow,
Dr. Tara (26:12):
really a
Allison (26:13):
a challenge
Dr. Tara (26:14):
to
Allison (26:14):
to break out of that sort of internal algorithm
Dr. Tara (26:17):
that,
Allison (26:17):
gets just cultivated over time.
Dr. Tara (26:20):
And then
Allison (26:20):
And then there's the
Dr. Tara (26:21):
like the nitpicker that
Allison (26:22):
that up.
Everything nice and neat likeyou were saying.
Oh.
Dr. Tara (26:24):
notes and the post-it notes and getting organized.
Like I definitely have a veryloud inner nitpicker.
And even today I was like, oh mygosh, I've got five hours of
clients.
I'm doing this podcast withAllison.
My desk is a mess.
Allison (26:34):
mess.
Dr. Tara (26:35):
I
Allison (26:35):
I need to clean.
Dr. Tara (26:36):
and I'm not
Allison (26:36):
I'm not gonna feel
Dr. Tara (26:37):
clear
Allison (26:38):
or energetically available unless I do.
Dr. Tara (26:40):
I
Allison (26:40):
I just create more of a mess, actually what happens
because, yeah.
And then there's that
Dr. Tara (26:44):
one
Allison (26:45):
part that I think
Dr. Tara (26:46):
Is
Allison (26:47):
there for many high achievers, which is that
Dr. Tara (26:49):
which was
Allison (26:50):
named by
Dr. Tara (26:51):
a student of mine, her
Allison (26:52):
inner
Dr. Tara (26:53):
thief.
And I told her I was adoptingthat as an archetype
Allison (26:57):
Oh yeah.
Dr. Tara (26:58):
people who
Allison (26:59):
who do not allow themselves
Dr. Tara (27:01):
to relax.
Allison (27:03):
rest,
Dr. Tara (27:04):
play.
Find that
Allison (27:06):
that space
Dr. Tara (27:06):
where actually
Allison (27:08):
that space is the birth place and creativity.
Dr. Tara (27:11):
We
Allison (27:11):
We don't let ourselves to, you
Dr. Tara (27:13):
Give those little
Allison (27:13):
knows.
Dr. Tara (27:14):
that we
Allison (27:15):
So we
Dr. Tara (27:16):
to
Allison (27:16):
have to check ourselves
Dr. Tara (27:16):
and then not try to
Allison (27:17):
get rid of those parts.
Dr. Tara (27:20):
We have to
Allison (27:21):
I understand them.
Yeah.
Because the thing that you thinkis a no-brainer is mind blowing
to everyone else.
The thing you think is obviousat, just in general, if you are,
if you're listening and youthink, doesn't everybody know
about kindness?
doesn't everybody know aboutgratefulness?
(27:42):
Doesn't everybody know about howto pitch their book?
Which I thought as a careermarketer and publicist, I'm like
pitching any idea has to do withthe receiver.
Not the, isn't this a good idea,but what is the No, nobody knows
the thing that you think isobvious.
(28:04):
I'm just thinking of all theauthors I work with, They're all
asked the same questions.
Isn't this obvious?
Hasn't this been done before?
No, it hasn't.
It hasn't been done from yourperspective by you in this time.
Which is also different.
Like the thing that you can'tcontrol is now versus a year
ago.
And nobody knows the book thatyou think is the end all be all
(28:29):
book on the topic that you thinkthat everyone, oh, everybody
already has that book.
I've never heard of that bookand that's always the case.
I love pointing out I've, neverread Julia Cameron's book on,
being a writer and going, Yeah.
there are plenty of books thatif you're an expert you think,
oh, it's already been done.
(28:49):
Because everybody knows that.
No, they don't.
There's always room in people'shearts.
And also, even if they have,they do know about whatever the
other book is that you as theauthor think is the thing, what
if they don't connect with thatauthor?
Because it's not just the book,but they have to trust the voice
(29:12):
that's providing it.
Yeah.
Dr. Tara (29:14):
Yeah, I
Allison (29:14):
I always say,
Dr. Tara (29:15):
for everybody,
Allison (29:16):
You just have to find that somebody
Dr. Tara (29:17):
Is.
Allison (29:18):
So keep putting yourself out there because your
story
Dr. Tara (29:20):
you tell it
Allison (29:21):
matters.
Dr. Tara (29:21):
energy and your, the love that you have to give the
world
Allison (29:26):
Matters,
Dr. Tara (29:27):
And
Allison (29:27):
it's a big universe, mean there's 8 billion people in
the world,
Dr. Tara (29:31):
is gonna be an audience for what you have to
say.
And
Allison (29:34):
and have to.
Dr. Tara (29:35):
myself
Allison (29:35):
this constantly, like
Dr. Tara (29:36):
I do not
Allison (29:37):
I do not have this down pat.
Dr. Tara (29:40):
So is
Allison (29:41):
this is why I go back to
Dr. Tara (29:42):
book
Allison (29:42):
book Infectious Dilemma
Dr. Tara (29:44):
Okay,
Allison (29:44):
I thought okay, people don't need a recipe for it.
Dr. Tara (29:47):
I
Allison (29:47):
I have this method, evolve
Dr. Tara (29:48):
really
Allison (29:48):
and it really begins actually with present to life
Dr. Tara (29:51):
because we
Allison (29:52):
because we get still hung up and.
Dr. Tara (29:53):
that we actually aren't present to our life
Allison (29:57):
To validate how we're feeling
Dr. Tara (29:58):
Because another thing that.
Allison (30:00):
the
Dr. Tara (30:00):
High
Allison (30:00):
achievers perfectionists who have like
strong inner
Dr. Tara (30:03):
or
Allison (30:03):
or inner bullies, they
Dr. Tara (30:05):
are
Allison (30:05):
actually are so in control.
Dr. Tara (30:06):
allow themselves to feel.
Allison (30:08):
So sometimes I feel like, oh my gosh, we have to do
Dr. Tara (30:10):
training and empathy towards ourselves And then to
Allison (30:12):
To
Dr. Tara (30:12):
befriend
Allison (30:13):
those,
Dr. Tara (30:14):
that
Allison (30:14):
that imposter feelings, to befriend
Dr. Tara (30:16):
the
Allison (30:17):
the inner critics because
Dr. Tara (30:18):
there,
Allison (30:19):
there because
Dr. Tara (30:19):
they
Allison (30:19):
they're protecting
Dr. Tara (30:20):
you from some
Allison (30:22):
from some perceived danger.
Dr. Tara (30:23):
a threat
Allison (30:23):
Threaten world.
You're
Dr. Tara (30:24):
that you're gonna
Allison (30:24):
gonna get exposed or
Dr. Tara (30:26):
in
Allison (30:26):
some way That comes from story long.
Dr. Tara (30:29):
Let's help
Allison (30:29):
Let's help that part.
Heal,
Dr. Tara (30:30):
let's
Allison (30:31):
Let's help.
Dr. Tara (30:31):
up to say, no, you have arrived right now in this
moment.
So we really need to tend tothose inner critical voices and
not be mad at ourselves and
Allison (30:39):
and
Dr. Tara (30:39):
just,
Allison (30:40):
Just do it.
Because if we could just do it,
Dr. Tara (30:42):
We
Allison (30:42):
we would,
Dr. Tara (30:43):
are
Allison (30:43):
yeah.
Things that get in the way
Dr. Tara (30:46):
we need
Allison (30:46):
and we need to take that step back and create the
space and community to allow
Dr. Tara (30:52):
yourself
Allison (30:52):
yourself
Dr. Tara (30:53):
grow and do these
Allison (30:54):
and these harder things
Dr. Tara (30:55):
And be a beginner, be glad to be a beginner in
something new.
Allison (31:00):
I was gonna ask you that what's a popular tactic
that doesn't work anymore, but Ithink you just hit it.
It's the, just surround yourselfwith people who are doing it and
you do it too, but that neverworks because somebody is always
carrying that weight of I don'tbelong here.
Or you do have to address thething that's keeping you from
(31:24):
enjoying the time or pursuingthe goal.
Mentality or no no pain, no gainor,
Dr. Tara (31:30):
grin and
Allison (31:30):
and bear, like
Dr. Tara (31:31):
those
Allison (31:31):
those sort of edicts that are in our culture
Dr. Tara (31:34):
are
Allison (31:34):
are really problematic.
Because
Dr. Tara (31:36):
if
Allison (31:37):
if we could,
Dr. Tara (31:37):
we would,
Allison (31:39):
but we don't.
Dr. Tara (31:40):
because there's
Allison (31:41):
something else that's underneath the mindset, right?
Dr. Tara (31:43):
simply
Allison (31:44):
this mindset shift of
Dr. Tara (31:46):
scarcity to
Allison (31:47):
to.
Dr. Tara (31:48):
or
Allison (31:48):
Fix mindset to a growth mindset.
Dr. Tara (31:50):
You
Allison (31:51):
You really need to look at the block
Dr. Tara (31:53):
that's
Allison (31:54):
stopping you from doing something that
Dr. Tara (31:55):
you
Allison (31:56):
you understand like
Dr. Tara (31:56):
we are
Allison (31:57):
you're not done.
Like we get it.
Yeah, just do it.
Just go, start that online.
Dr. Tara (32:00):
I've been saying to myself for a year, so that's my,
just do it this year, but it'sreally hard, so I
Allison (32:04):
I need to understand
Dr. Tara (32:05):
like
Allison (32:06):
what's
Dr. Tara (32:07):
there
Allison (32:07):
the block there
Dr. Tara (32:08):
And
Allison (32:08):
and treat it kindly with curiosity and then figure
out maybe what I need iscommunity.
Maybe what I need is help.
Maybe
Dr. Tara (32:15):
It's
Allison (32:15):
it's not about just knowing how to do everything
from the get go
Dr. Tara (32:19):
just dive
Allison (32:20):
dive right in
Dr. Tara (32:21):
without
Allison (32:22):
really having
Dr. Tara (32:24):
a
Allison (32:24):
a safety net for yourself.
Dr. Tara (32:26):
And
Allison (32:26):
And so that's where that self-compassion piece
comes,
Dr. Tara (32:28):
in again, is like
Allison (32:29):
like self-compassion
Dr. Tara (32:30):
is
Allison (32:31):
your own safety net.
Dr. Tara (32:32):
for your really
Allison (32:34):
Protecting your inner work
Dr. Tara (32:36):
your
Allison (32:36):
inner sense of
Dr. Tara (32:37):
Self.
And
Allison (32:39):
and we don't often give ourselves
Dr. Tara (32:42):
The
Allison (32:42):
safety net.
And That comes in relationship.
Dr. Tara (32:45):
and those parts that are scared.
Relationship with other peoplewho may know just a little bit
more than us, doesn't have to bethe top expert in the world, but
maybe someone who's 10% ahead ofyou.
Talk to that person.
Get that kind of support, whichis what you provide actually in
some of
Allison (32:58):
Actually
Dr. Tara (32:59):
your programs.
Allison (33:00):
program, right?
It's intended because so manywomen I work with are like you.
They're completely busy and theydon't think they have time'cause
they are not sure they're goingto get a benefit out of
something that they have todevote, an hour a month to.
But because I am the glue in thenext chapter Network, which is a
(33:27):
network of high achieving womenwho are all doing the things,
speakers, writers, mediacontributors, authors they're
all doing.
A profession as well.
They're not just speakers, butthey're speakers because they
teach at the university orthey're seeing patients or
(33:49):
they're memoirs sharing a reallyimportant experience and
insight.
But if they're not together,they don't have, they don't have
the opportunity for theunexpected learning and the.
Unanticipated, surprisecollaboration because the, and
(34:14):
that's why I love.
The the network is because whenI see you, you folks together,
I'm like, oh, I, you wouldn'teven know to get introduced, but
I've gotta make the introductionbecause there's something that's
cool there, but it only takes aminute for me to say, Dr.
(34:36):
Tara, you need to know, so andso because you're both, this
interest in mind or you, but youwouldn't necessarily know that
unless someone made the introand you made time for it.
I'm so glad, I'm so glad thatwe're talking about it.
Dr. Tara (34:52):
Yeah.
I think,
Allison (34:53):
I think just
Dr. Tara (34:54):
thing about that piece
Allison (34:55):
that piece is
Dr. Tara (34:56):
you are
Allison (34:56):
what you were
Dr. Tara (34:57):
creating in your community and
Allison (34:59):
in your community and what women can find communities
Dr. Tara (35:02):
own
Allison (35:02):
in their own
Dr. Tara (35:03):
ways
Allison (35:03):
ways
Dr. Tara (35:04):
that
Allison (35:04):
is that
Dr. Tara (35:05):
you
Allison (35:05):
you can't learn
Dr. Tara (35:07):
or do something
Allison (35:07):
If you're playing
Dr. Tara (35:08):
you're playing safe.
Allison (35:09):
Right?
Dr. Tara (35:10):
But you
Allison (35:10):
But you also can't do
Dr. Tara (35:11):
it
Allison (35:11):
it if you're overwhelmed
Dr. Tara (35:12):
because
Allison (35:13):
because that shuts down
Dr. Tara (35:14):
Motivation, but if
Allison (35:16):
But if you can find places where you feel safely
challenged, that's why I thinkthe
Dr. Tara (35:20):
good
Allison (35:21):
good stuff happens
Dr. Tara (35:22):
is
Allison (35:23):
you have to feel safe enough and comfortable that
Dr. Tara (35:26):
You can take
Allison (35:28):
take those steps forward.
You.
Dr. Tara (35:29):
It really, it's just like a toddler, right?
Parents are gonna make sure thatthe glass coffee tables are
covered and protected, but
Allison (35:36):
Let that child roam around, fall on his little,
bottom and then stand back up.
I, we all need to be safelychallenged in those kind of
days,
Dr. Tara (35:43):
And
Allison (35:43):
and that's, I think, where thriving really happens
Dr. Tara (35:46):
versus
Allison (35:47):
being in that survival mode.
Dr. Tara (35:48):
is overwhelm.
When we're in overwhelm, we'repretty much
Allison (35:51):
Hustling
Dr. Tara (35:52):
We're in
Allison (35:53):
for in that survival zone.
And we're
Dr. Tara (35:54):
thriving.
And
Allison (35:55):
And when we're safe,
Dr. Tara (35:56):
we're too
Allison (35:57):
we're too complacent,
Dr. Tara (35:58):
right?
Allison (35:58):
We're in a more, maybe almost more avoidance
Dr. Tara (36:00):
that's
Allison (36:01):
that's not gonna get us any farther.
So we have to find that sort ofnice,
Dr. Tara (36:04):
A sort
Allison (36:04):
Sweet spot of being
Dr. Tara (36:05):
challenged.
And I think writing
Allison (36:07):
are
Dr. Tara (36:08):
a
Allison (36:08):
complace to do that because
Dr. Tara (36:10):
other people
Allison (36:12):
who
Dr. Tara (36:12):
might
Allison (36:12):
might be at the beginning.
Dr. Tara (36:13):
they're a little bit farther than you, or they've
already done one thing already,and then they
Allison (36:18):
You become this amazing resource
Dr. Tara (36:19):
for
Allison (36:20):
for you to sustain your own really internal motivation.
There's always something I thinkgood that can come out of
community.
But you have to show up for it.
You have to make space for it,
Dr. Tara (36:32):
community.
And
Allison (36:33):
and it does have to be the right,
Dr. Tara (36:34):
to do the little Goldilocks thing right?
It's is this one right or isthis one right?
Allison (36:39):
right.
Because it's maternal feelinglike
Dr. Tara (36:42):
ugh.
It's like a
Allison (36:43):
it's a feeling of relief.
Dr. Tara (36:44):
this is the right place for me.
Allison (36:46):
Right.
Dr.
Tara, let me pivot and ask youfor a book reco.
What is a book that you wannashare today?
Dr. Tara (36:56):
oh my
Allison (36:56):
oh my gosh.
Dr. Tara (36:57):
past year I read a couple of really good books.
I think my favorite one thoughis it's a book
Allison (37:02):
It's a book of fiction.
Dr. Tara (37:02):
called
Allison (37:03):
called Wayward, and it's spelled
Dr. Tara (37:05):
WEY.
WARD, which actually has like ameaning, but you have to read
the book for it.
But it's by Amelia Hart.
Allison (37:13):
It's
Dr. Tara (37:13):
really
Allison (37:14):
kind
Dr. Tara (37:14):
Like witches in a way.
Or, energy healers, that goback,
Allison (37:18):
you.
Dr. Tara (37:18):
a couple centuries and this sort of family line of
having this gift of intuitionand healing.
Allison (37:25):
That's the, that happens along the way.
Dr. Tara (37:26):
along the way.
Allison (37:26):
As I'm very interested in psychology, energy medicine,
so I love any stories
Dr. Tara (37:31):
that
Allison (37:31):
that are about
Dr. Tara (37:32):
these unappreciated
Allison (37:36):
gifts of nature,
Dr. Tara (37:37):
especially for
Allison (37:39):
for women who are,
Dr. Tara (37:39):
are intuitive
Allison (37:41):
and.
Dr. Tara (37:41):
have these sort of intuitive powers of healing.
Allison (37:44):
It was a great read and it was first generation.
Dr. Tara (37:47):
I
Allison (37:48):
Oh, I'm gonna put the link in the show notes.
This is my next read.
I cannot wait.
Dr. Tara (37:54):
yeah I
Allison (37:54):
I love,
Dr. Tara (37:55):
know when the book came out, but I saw a
description
Allison (37:58):
I think it was 2023.
Dr. Tara (38:00):
maybe.
Allison (38:01):
pretty recently.
Dr. Tara (38:02):
Yeah.
Allison (38:03):
It's a fun
Dr. Tara (38:03):
read and I really enjoyed it
Allison (38:04):
it and I read it.
Wow.
That's high praise.
Dr. Tara (38:08):
I know.
Allison (38:09):
Okay, we will put your book link in the show notes.
Dr. Tara (38:14):
Okay.
Allison (38:15):
in the show notes if you wanna join.
We would love to have you.
And before we call this podcastcomplete, Dr.
Tara, what is one thing youwanna leave people with?
Dr. Tara (38:28):
I just wanna let
Allison (38:28):
I just wanna let people know that they're worthy of love
and belonging and that theirstory matters
Dr. Tara (38:32):
we
Allison (38:33):
and we need to hear it
Dr. Tara (38:34):
hear
Allison (38:34):
hear it.
Dr. Tara (38:35):
are
Allison (38:35):
We're being
Dr. Tara (38:36):
So
Allison (38:36):
so please
Dr. Tara (38:37):
share your
Allison (38:38):
your stories.
Dr. Tara (38:39):
with the world.
Allison (38:41):
Oh, perfect.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
And thank you, listener.
Wherever you are sitting incarpool.
I know you are.
'cause that is my life too.
We are so glad you're showing upfor yourself and sharing this.
Do your friends a solid.
(39:03):
If this podcast, someone whoneeds to hear Dr.
Tara's message, stop right now.
Put your car in park.
Make sure you're not gonna rollover a elementary school kid and
share it.
Just send it to someone whoneeds it, because the way that
(39:24):
we can help people is to sharewhat we know.
Otherwise they're never gonnaknow, and you're never gonna
remember later.
So do it now.
It helps people also find uswhen you leave a review, leave a
five star review.
It helps the algorithm and theinfrastructure and the matrix.
(39:49):
Show the podcast to people whoneed it.
So thank you.
I will see you next week.
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