Paul Marc Goulet: Salt, Light, and the Spirit: Transforming Every Kingdom

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up guys?
This is Matt with A Vota Talk,or the Real Matt Walton.
This is your hub for all thingsKingdom, business, businesses,
ministry, business strategy.
My goal is to provide as muchvalue, minute by minute, each
podcast that you listen to.
So let's get to it.
Welcome back everybody.
This is Matt with A Vota Talk,or At the Real Matt Walton,

(00:22):
depending on how you found me,and today I've got a really
special guest.
I'm very, very excited about it.
But first I got to give y'allan update.
So there's been a lot going onwith just personal life and I
really want to encourageeverybody with with disciplines
and working on your health.
I have been waking up earlystill and consistently still

(00:43):
working on my eating and dialingthat in and really working on
disciplines of like pushingthrough hard things, so setting
goals, and specifically withrunning I hate running, but now
I'm starting to really enjoy itand so pushing through those
barriers.
When you get to two, three,four, five minutes or half a
mile and you don't feel like it,you're out of breath and you're

(01:03):
trying to get control of yourbreath and then you're able to
push those barriers.
So that same thing happenswithin business or within life
we get to these barrier pointsand it causes a lot of people to
fall out.
And so when we push throughthose, that's where the
breakthrough happens.
And so I've seen that startingto happen within my health and
my disciplines with exercisedrop significant weight and now

(01:26):
trying to put back on someweight, um, when it comes to
muscle and uh, it's really coolto watch um, no results happen.
And push through those, noresults happen.
And then all of a sudden, three, four weeks later, you start to
see some results happen andyou're like, okay, this is, this
is worth it.
So, um, continue going.
I know there's a lot of youthat listen to this that are on
that same journey.
So, continue going, pushthrough those moments to where

(01:49):
you're not seeing results, themotivation goes, like that
spirit that you started thesenew disciplines is gone and you
no longer feel like it.
Well, continue to go, because Ipromise you it's through that
action that you will find thatmotivation again and it's
through that discipline that youwill then find yourself being
motivated to continue going toyour next level.
Always be going to your nextlevel.

(02:09):
We see Jesus doing this withhis disciples, like continuously
taking them to the next levelof things, and so that transfers
to every area of business.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Anyways.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I want to get into and introduce you guys to Paul
Mark Goulet.
The first story at first wedidn't really meet during this
time, but there's a Bible studyhere in Las Vegas that's called
KWM and Kingdom Wealth Managersand if you're in Vegas it's
every Friday at 930.
And it is just a special one.

(02:41):
It's full of entrepreneurs andkingdom business people and Paul
was speaking at one of thoseFridays and I just felt the Holy
Spirit all in that room but allover him.
I had a guest on here a fewmonths ago, mark and Mark
McClune.
That the same thing.
I really felt the Holy Spiritall over him.
Then we struck up a connectionand have been buddies ever since

(03:02):
and kind of the same thing.
Mark actually made theconnection to Paul and I and we
went to coffee a couple of weeksago and then now here he is.
So he is a author, he pastoredICOV for about 29 years.
A number of things I mean.
I'm going to get to know himmore with you guys today, but
grandfather philanthropist, Imean, is just doing incredible

(03:24):
kingdom work.
We'll get into the story ofMadagascar and what God's doing
with him in Madagascar.
He's a pioneer and a leaderwithin the leadership space, and
we're going to get into allthat today.
So, paul, thank you so much forcoming on.
It's an honor to be here.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
So I want to start with first with your books.
You don't have to spend toomuch time on that, but I know
you've authored, I think, threeof them, and there was one quote
that I want to share witheverybody out there and then
just get an explanation andshare what you feel like the
Lord's leading you to share onthat.
But the quote was there aren'tjust seven mountains that God
has given you dominion over, buthundreds of kingdoms, great and

(03:58):
small, that need heaven, thatneed the anointing, that needs
you.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
That's actually a new book coming out called, called
Cracking the Code.
Okay, because I believe thatfor many, many, many, many years
that I was guilty of it too isbasically, we wanted to get
people in the church andeverything was growing your
church doubling it and so I gothere 30 something years ago, and
so I took I wasn't a pastor,but I took over a church.
I felt it was either penanceMaybe I'd be here for a couple

(04:23):
of years.
I was a therapist and I was agood therapist and I had a large
counseling center in Sacramento.
I had an encounter in thePhilippines where I said God,
I'll do anything.
Well, bam, and I don't hearvoices or see angels, but I get
thoughts, and the thought wasyou're going to pastor a church
in Las Vegas.
I thought get thee behind me,satan, I'm not going to pastor.
First of all, I'm an old hockeyplayer, I'm not a.
You know, for me, my pastor was, like always, perfect blue

(04:46):
blood, and always I was a badperson, sometimes in my past and
I had some challenges in mylife.
So I thought, nah, so as atherapist, I could help people.
So long, long, long.
Story short, I had the ability.
I had the ability to helppeople, which was good.
So I did support groups and Ihad 17 therapists working for me
and it was a wonderful life.

(05:06):
I was doing great until Godcalled me to Vegas to pastor and
I had no idea what I was doing.
So, and at the beginning, allyou want to do is grow the
church, and that's good.
It's not a bad thing.
I love church.
I go to my son's church.
He goes to the pastor of themountain church in Summerlin, so
I attend his church at nineo'clock when I'm in town and I
love it.
So I realized through the yearsthat the best thing I could do

(05:26):
is turn people into worldchangers.
Jesus said I'll give you thekeys to the kingdom.
And then in Revelations 11, 15,it says that the kingdoms of
this world have become thekingdoms of my God.
Ultimately, when I get toheaven, I should go here's a
kingdom I impacted for you, lord.
Here's another kingdom.
This is entertainment.
This is entertainment.
This is pools like you're anamazing company.

(05:47):
This is counseling, this isathletics.
So I got this idea.
And my friends I had some reallygreat friends from Bethel
they're all my buddies and LanceWallenau, he's my friend and
they talked about the sevenmountains.
I said, well, that's sevenmountains, that makes sense.
And because it's refocusingyour interest, not just in terms
of accumulating people in achurch, but empowering them to
go change the mountains.
But then I realized, as Istudied the word, it wasn't

(06:10):
mountains, it was kingdoms.
Everywhere you look, throughoutthe Bible, it's kingdoms.
And the New Testament is allabout Jesus would tell his
disciples.
Tell them, the kingdom is near.
Why?
Because I'm called to be saltand light, matt.
If I'm salt and light and I cantrain my people to be salt and
light, I can change schools, Ican change hospitals, I can
change the legal system, I canchange the government, I can
change sports.

(06:30):
So I really shifted.
I wrote a book called the Keysof the Kingdom which was based
on this principle that they'renot just mountains, there's
kingdoms.
So that way you're not talkingabout seven major influences,
you're talking about the localPTA club, the local teachers
union or student union, thelocal soccer academy, the local

(06:51):
football teams.
You're literally saying there'sthousands of them.
So if every Christian goes, oh,I'm not talking about becoming
the next president, I'm talkingabout changing my neighborhood,
I'm talking about changing mycompany, like you're doing with
this company.
Matt walked me through it andthis place is insane.
He's way ahead of the curve andI'm sitting there all fired up
and he's got Donovan, who I'veknown for 20 years, who was a

(07:12):
battalion commander, battalionchief in the fire department.
I've known him when he wasbattalion chief and I watched
him rise and he's just, and thenhe retires and he comes and
works with you and I'm thinkingyou got a great team Leslie's
here and then your dad's here,your mom's here and your, your
wife.
I'm thinking you're reallybuilding this company right, but
when you build your company,you're, you're bringing salt and

(07:33):
light into society.
That's my issue.
My issue is I'm not againstbringing people and growing my
church.
I did that for 29 years andthere was thousands that came
and thousands watched online.
It was good, none of it was bad.
But the last 10 years I shiftedmy focus to all.
Right now, how are you going togo change your world?
Go, take one of the kingdoms,go influence it at the beginning
and maybe you can take it.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Make sense, absolutely, absolutely.
So when you talk about yourhearing from the Lord some of
these things, you have thesethoughts.
I think a lot of people have ahard time knowing if that's the
Lord or knowing if that's theirthoughts.
Right, how did that happen withyou?
Was there a time in your life,whenever you or maybe even still
to this day where you're like,okay, lord, is that you?
And how do you decipher ifthat's the Lord or not?

Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, I've had a lot, Matt.
I've had in psychology and thena doctorate.
I haven't finished my thesis soI don't really have it yet, but
I finished all my courses.
But my mentor, dr Dobbins,taught me that every single day
there's a couple of influencesin my brain and you've got Satan
that speaks to my mind everysingle day, to my mind, to my
brain every single day.
Thoughts that are destructive,demonic, stupid, whatever.

(08:43):
But every single day, thoughtsthat are destructive, demonic,
stupid, whatever.
But every single day God speaksto my mind.
Thoughts that are creative anddivine.
And then society speaks to meand mentors speak to me, and
people speak to me, media speaksto me, but ultimately there's
this unconscious dynamic rightnow in heaven.
That's why the Bible says takeevery thought captive.
So, matt, to be real, practicaland to help your friends, every
morning I spend an hour to twohours, usually about 45 minutes

(09:06):
to an hour, just studying theBible.
I have a notepad next to me andI take notes to every thought
that comes up.
Sometimes it's notes about whatI'm reading, sometimes it's
just stuff that comes up, randomthoughts, and then I'll go
usually for, like, I try to walk10,000 steps a day, so minimum,
and so I'm big into health andso I start my prayer walk.

(09:26):
So I'm walking in myneighborhood and I'm praying and
I'm taking care of my body, mysoul, my spirit.
I'm trying to, I'm trying to bea whole man.
It's a work in progress.
So then by the end of thattwo-hour timeframe I've got
lists, I've got little boxes.
So when I achieve it and then Iput priorities like today,
that's number one, this, liketoday's Thursdays Today's a
Thursday, project Thursday.
Thursday Thursday oh, that's aFriday.

(09:47):
Oh, that's by Monday, that'smore long-term.
So every day I'll make my listand I'll sort through priorities
every single day.
Some thoughts are just random,some are from spaghetti from the
night before or pizza the nightbefore, but some are God.
Thoughts Like text Bill.
So I'll text Bill Bill, how youdoing I.

(10:07):
Thoughts Like text Bill.
So I'll text Bill Bill, how areyou doing?
I can't believe you're textingme.
I go what is it?
Who told you?
I said no one told me.
I was in prayer and your namecame to mind.
So I wanted to make sure you'reokay.
No, I'm not okay.
I just lost my dad.
So I just that happened.
This past week I sent somethingto a friend which came to my
mind.
I sent it and he just lost hisfather and he was messed up.
So I'm sitting there in myprayer time just crying for him,
and it was a beautiful time.

(10:28):
But that brings us closertogether.
See, that's salt and light.
But the way God moves is not byangels in a room, although
they're there and they areworking.
It's not by writing on the wall, although that can happen too.
It's literally by God speakingto our brain to inspire thoughts
that are creative and divine.
So, if I can focus more onthose thoughts, it's like even
our brains are Wi-Fi.
None of our lines are connectedhere, it's all.

(10:49):
There's little gaps between ourneurons and there's little
synapses at the end of everyneurological wire and it sends
electrochemical messages to.
That's why your health is soimportant.
That's a whole other issue.
But every single day, so justlike my neurons are not
connected, I've got to connectwith God and try to tap into
those thoughts, and I only cando that by writing it down and

(11:10):
then checking it off,prioritizing it, and sometimes
I'll just sit on something Likeone thing I sat on for a whole
year.
It came to my mind.
I thought that's the dumbestidea in the world and a year
later it was revelation.
But then there was a processand I've got people that I trust
, matt.
So the beginning is that Everymorning I do that.
But then there's a processwhere I have I've been in
therapy for a long, long timeand I have a counselor and I

(11:31):
believe in that.
I have my pastor, I have I'msurrounded by eagles, by world
changers around me.
So just the other day Icontacted the.
I had this crazy thought and Icontacted the new ambassador of
Israel.
He's a friend of mine and Ijust asked him a question.
He said what?
Yeah, you find your eagles andthey're in for the rest of my
life.
So most of my eagles have beenthere 20, 30 years, most of them

(11:52):
.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
You talk about mentors and getting around those
eagles.
Do you approach them?
So if somebody comes into yourlife, do you ever approach them
and say hey, would you mentor me?
Has that ever happened to you?
Or how do you?
Or do you just reach back outto them and say hey, you know I
have this question or here'ssome encouragement.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Well, because I was trained as a therapist, I don't
ask that question.
I'll tell you why because it'sa loaded question.
Okay, so when someone says Iwant you to mentor me, that
usually means I want you to bemy daddy, I want you to be my
coach, I want you to be myconscience, I want you to be
something.
And I tell him I said no, Idon't mentor anybody.
Now I said but I will be yourfriend.
If you can accept that I'm yournew friend, here's my phone
number, I'll be your friend.

(12:31):
So that's what I tell everybody, literally everybody.
Also, I don't ask anybody tomentor me.
I literally like with JohnMaxwell.
Who not going to mentor you?
So I don't ask that question ofanybody.
What I do, though, is I start Ipicked up all his books.
I've probably read every John.
Well, until in the last five,10 years, I've probably read 15,

(12:53):
20 of his books.
I would go to his seminars, soI'd go there and buy his stuff,
and at the end of every seminar,I'd go walk up to him, shake
his hand.
John, I really appreciate thatYou're one of my mentors, but
for me it doesn't mean whateverybody else means.
For me, it just means I'mreading his books, I'm listening
to his podcasts, I'm listeningto whatever he has at the time.
Does that make sense?
Absolutely, yeah.
So yeah, I tell people don't askpeople to be your mentor,

(13:16):
because it's not healthy, it'snot, it's a loaded question.
They'll probably disappoint youor you'll probably disappoint
them.
Just make them your mentors.
Like, my mentors are JohnMaxwell, dr Dobbins I've got a
couple of people that are atthat level who I consider my
mentors and Tommy Barnett.
Tommy Barnett from PhoenixFirst, oh my goodness, what a
stinking legend that guy is.
He's been a mentor to me, butI'll never take his time.

(13:38):
He's busy.
I don't need a new dad, Ialready had a dad Love it
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Well, I think one of the things that you go back just
a little bit, we talk about thelies.
There's a prayer that God hadput on my heart was silence, the
lies in my own head.
Yeah, cause there's so manythoughts that come into our mind
that are just lies from theenemy.
Silence, the lies from theenemy, yeah and uh, you know,
just give me I'd heard, I'dheard a portion of this
somewhere.
I think it was through JamieWinship that I had heard this.

(14:04):
I don't know if you know whoJamie Winship is, but he's
awesome and it dramaticallystarted to change how I was able
to filter through thosethoughts coming in, because you
know, we hear things that arelies from the outside that we
can then start to believe aboutourselves and believe about a
scenario and then that can startto shape our identity.
So I want to get into, like,that identity.

(14:24):
I think a lot of peoplestruggle and maybe we think we
have our identity tied up inChrist, but then we find out
through whatever that oh man, itwas in a job, it was in my
business, it was in somethingelse or an accolade that we have
.
How do you work through thatand how do you start to root
yourself in Christ so that youridentity can be in Christ and

(14:44):
Christ alone?

Speaker 2 (14:45):
What a great question .
There's a great scripture sayswe see through a glass dimly.
My mentor Dobbins told me this.
He says you don't live with thefacts of your life, you live
with the interpretation of thefacts of your life.
David said create in me a cleanheart, o Lord, and renew a
steadfast spirit in me.
Paul said in Romans betransformed by the renewing of
your mind.
So the real, I call it the vatin.

(15:07):
You can call it the mind if youwant, but I call it the vat,
you can call it the heart if youwant.
Whatever biblical framework youwant to use, it's there and what
it is.
It's all my memories and all myeducation and all my bad
experiences, all my trauma, allmy good.
It's all there in myunconscious.
Right now we're all consciousin this room.
If I was sleeping I'd beunconscious.
If someone knocked me out I'dbe unconscious.

(15:28):
Some people are semi-conscious,but conceptually in your
unconscious.
Your first three years, theysay your self-concept is largely
formed.
But that's all unconscious.
When you're zero to three, howdo you file experiences?
Dad is God and mom is a goddessor whatever In your brain we
believe in the tooth fairy, webelieve in the Easter bunny, we

(15:51):
believed in all those crazySanta Claus why?
Because as children, your braindoesn't have the maturity to
process things.
It just files things andsometimes it files things wrong.
So in other words, like Iremember one person I counseled
her, dad left when she was six.
So by three, they say yourself-concept is largely formed.
It can be changed and it can beadded to, but largely that's

(16:12):
your foundation.
Like the foundation of thesepools are important.
I watch what you did out thereFoundationally super smart,
really, really smart.
I don't think anybody will everhave a problem with their pools
that are built here.
Wow.
But conceptually, from zero tothree, our concept is being
formed by mom, dad, schoolexperiences, nanny experiences,
daycare experiences, all that'sunder right, but it's all
unconscious and it's not filedwell.

(16:33):
So that means that a little kiddoesn't go.
I'm really upset right now.
Dad left my home, or I saw momand dad yelling, screaming, or
my mom screamed at me and gotimpatient with me.
We don't have those tools whenwe were young.
What do we do?
We just follow the experiences.
And then, by five, they sayyour God concept is largely
formed, which means how you seeGod.
So you're talking about how doyou change your identity it's
back to Romans 12, betransformed by renewing of your

(16:56):
mind.
So what I encourage people to dois create a clean heart.
So I spend time cleaning up mybrain, my mind, my heart.
I'm getting rid of stuff, lord,I forgive so-and-so.
I forgive so-and-so.
I'm reinterpreting such andsuch.
It's like I've got a crossright here.
Right, this was a torturedevice, but we, as Christians,
we're a cross.
Now, this one has specialmeaning to me because it was my
mom's cross.

(17:16):
She's in heaven now.
But every once in a while Ijust reached down and grabbed my
mom's cross.
I thought, okay, I feel thelove of my mom with me.
So what I'm talking about isthat, basically, as adults, now
that we're adults, we have toreinterpret our past.
This was bad, now it's good.
I was paid a lot of money tohelp people do this, because we
just have to start getting ourhearts clean, forgiving, keeping

(17:37):
you clean, asking God toforgive us for our shortcomings,
forgiving others,reinterpreting our past and
consciously doing it as a workassignment every morning.
Okay, yeah, my dad left when Iwas six.
Like this one lady, her dad leftwhen she was six.
She always had poor self-esteem, always, always.
So finally, her husband, whowas a deacon at the church, said
can you please help my wife?
I said, well, I'll go to thecounseling center.

(17:58):
I met with her so I knew therewas something in her, that her
mind, her history, that waspolluted, that made her feel
like garbage.
So we wanted to find it.
Help us, holy Spirit, find thatstinky thing in there that
causes her to feel bad about whoshe is, her self-esteem.
Esteem is how you valueyourself.
Self-concept is how you seeyourself.
So finally, in counseling camethat her dad left when she was

(18:20):
six.
I said, well, how do youinterpret that?
Not, how do you feel about it.
How do you interpret that?
Well, I must've done somethingwrong.
I could have done somethingbetter.
I said, in other words, youblame yourself for your father
leaving your mother.
It doesn't make sense, does it?
But that's childish thinking,it's not adult thinking.
So let's take this out of yourmind.
And is there another way tointerpret that?
I don't think so.
Well, I'm a mentally healthyperson, more or less.

(18:41):
I said can I throw out a coupleoptions?
She goes yeah, I said could itbe that your dad left because
your parents didn't get along?
Let me ask you a question Didyour parents you remember your
parents arguing, oh yeah, allthe time, screaming All the time
.
I said, well, maybe he leftbecause of this and not because
you did anything wrong and youweren't a good girl.
I said who do you think's rightMe or you?
Did he leave because youweren't a good girl?

(19:03):
Or did he leave because yourparents didn't get along?
I think he left because myparents didn't get along.
Okay, good, that's aninterpretation.
You change your interpretation.
You believe I'm right andyou're right now?
Yes, all right, how do you feel?
I'm angry that he left, that hedidn't consider how to affect
me?
Done, now, you've got a healthyinterpretation.
Absolutely?
And once she did that, then whatcan she?

(19:24):
Instead of feeling lousy thatshe doesn't measure up, what
does she do?
I feel I feel mad at my dadthat he didn't think about how
it would affect me and didn'tfollow up, but he wasn't
involved in her life, thinkingall right now, okay, what can we
do about that?
Well, I can write him a letterthat he'll never get because
he's gone.
I can forgive him biblically.
Yes, we can do that.

(19:45):
Let's talk about how to do that.
She was empowered.
She was completely healed.
It started with one badcancerous cell in her brain, in
her mind, and that gotreinterpreted and that's how she
changed.
Did her self-esteem change?
Yeah, we had to take out thelandmines.
So what I've done through theyears, whether I'm training
leadership or training people, Isaid, if you can get healthy

(20:10):
and have a better way ofinterpreting life, you'll become
a more successful person.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
It makes me think about, when I go out and
evangelize, some of thequestions that well, how things
have changed with evangelizing,because there's a lot of therapy
that happens out there.
There should be.
So it used to be with me.
I would go out there and justkind of slap them across the
face with the Bible and then Ilearned, okay, that's not a good
approach at all.
So I started asking questionsand really getting through to

(20:35):
the lies that we believe aboutourselves, like, what are the
lies that you believe, what arethe lies that somebody else has
told you?
And then, once we kind of getthose, you don't have to answer
me.
This is what I tell them.
You don't have to answer me,but work through this and then
ask God, the father, what hethinks about you.
And there's so many people I'ma terrible father, I am this,
that and the other, and it'slike well, I guarantee it.
Whenever you allow yourself tobecome aware of the lies and

(20:58):
then you ask God what he saysabout you, he's then going to
invite you to understand how tobe a good father.
And so it's actually sparked alot of really good conversations
and moments to where I'm ableto get through to them, not slap
them across the face with theBible, but then allow them to do
an exercise outside of thatconversation, to work through

(21:19):
the lies, to replace it withtruth, like John 8, 31 and 32
says.
You know, I am the way, thetruth and the life, and so if we
can expose the lies, becomeaware of the lies and replace
that with truth and scripturaltruth, what God says about us,
then that's how we get to theroot of things and we can start
to have our identity be rootedin Christ and Christ alone.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
A hundred percent, coming back to self-esteem,
coming back to who we are,because it doesn't matter if
you're a billionaire I've got afriend who's a billionaire it
matters that on the insideyou're clean and you're healthy
and you're thinking right.
So, yeah, we start cleaning outour vats.
Right, we start cleaning it out, forgiveness, reinterpreting.
But then what you're saying is100% true it's we start filling

(21:57):
it with truth.
When I was a young man, Iaccepted Christ at 20.
I had these little three byfive cards and I'd write verses
on it and I would memorize.
Because I didn't have a carback then, I had a bus.
So I'd go to university in abus and I'd go to hockey games
in a bus and practices whatever.
And so I'd memorize I can doall things through Christ.
Who gives me strength?
If God before me, who can beagainst me?
So not only do we clean out ourminds, our vats right, our

(22:21):
hearts, we fill it with truth.
That's why when you sayevangelize, basically it's good
news, it's we're telling peoplethe good news.
When we read the Bible, it'sall good news.
So we replace the bad newsabout who we are with the good
news about who we are.
But if we don't get rid of thebad, literally we'll reject the
truth.
So that's why it's important toclean it out while we're
filling up.

(22:41):
So that's you're.
You're spot on.
Probably why you had moresuccess in evangelism because
you're bringing the good newsand the good news is all right.
So they believe that aboutthemselves, they believe that
about God, they believe thatabout their future.
What happens when, all of asudden, you give them truth?
You're spot on.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, that, that is I think it.
I think then you start to allowthem the alleyway to figure out
who God really is.
I watched a video that you didwhere it's like yeah, god's not
some angry God up there waitingto smite you.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
You know, it's not just like yep, paul messed up.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
you know, and I mean we see so much grace and mercy
all throughout scripture and him.
Continue to partner with peoplethat continue to mess up.
Reasons why I love the story ofAbram, or Abraham, because he
was you read like the storiesthat came before him.
What Abraham did differentlywas he built an altar to the
Lord, and I feel like that'spart of our sanctification, at

(23:32):
least for me and mysanctification process, to where
you realize, man, I have analtar that I can go sacrifice
myself, my flesh, my past,whatever, on that altar.
All right, I want to get into.
You talked about receivingChrist at 20.
Ever on that altar, all right.
I want to, I want to get into.
You talked about receivingChrist at 20 and just briefly,
there's.
There's so many young God'sdoing so much with young people
right now and I see a movehappening with young people.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, Baylor, they had that big.
They're talking about a revivalof Baylor right now.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
I love that, I mean, and it's, it's incredible.
It's incredible.
There's so many young peoplethat are giving their life to
the Lord and you see people likeCharlie Kirk going to these
campuses.
I love Charlie.
Tons of kids around Hungry,hungry.
Cliff Kinectly I don't know howto say his last name, but he
and his son go speak to that.
Speak to the 20-year-old Paul.
I guess what happened in thatmoment?

(24:18):
Hey, why give your life to God?

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Well, that's a great question.
Like you said, I wrote a lot ofbooks and I think it's 15 now
because I've written books andworkbooks.
So, if you want to getresources because I'm not into
sales, paul Mark Goulet onwhat's it called Spotify.
So Paul Mark Goulet on Spotifyand I've got resources to help
you grow.
Everything that people buy goesto Madagascar, which we'll talk
about later on.
I don't keep it, it just goesright to help.

(24:50):
They sell little girls and boysfor $5 in Madagascar.
So for eight years I've beenworking on helping the nation,
which is.
We'll talk about that.
But I really believe that we'reat a point right now that young
people are tired of the garbageand they're looking for
something real where it could bea Russell Brand.
Of course, he's not young youngbut I think there's something
that's happening right nowthat's drawing people to the

(25:11):
truth.
So at 20 years old, I acceptedChrist.
I was playing hockey for theUniversity of Ottawa.
I played semi-pro in Europewhen I was 15.
I had lots of success.
I had girlfriends.
I had success.
My dad was the president of alarge company.
A corporation At some point iswhat's going to fulfill your
needs.
I didn't come from a down andout family.
I came from an up and outfamily and at 20, I was so

(25:33):
disillusioned because I had alot of success young, and I had
talents and I had all thosethings, but I was empty.
And so then I started sedatingmyself with abusive alcohol,
abusive drugs mostly marijuana,thc.
I never got into the heavyheavy stuff, but I became really
disillusioned with life.
And then one night after ahockey practice, a group called
Athletes in Action came to ourdressing room and shared the

(25:54):
gospel.
I'd never heard the gospel.
I grew up going to church twicea year, like a lot of people do.
Like this Sunday is Easter, sogo to church.
I'd go to church twice a yearand, um, I didn't have a
relationship with God.
I really didn't.
But that night they sharedabout Jesus knocking on the door
of your life.
Behold, revelations 3.20,.
Behold, I stand at the door ofyour life.

(26:14):
I knock.
They talk about John 10.10,.
The thief comes to steal, killand destroy, but I've come to
give you life.
So here I am, 20, and I wasactually contemplating suicide.
In my dorm room.
I had a picture of my Godsonand that kept me alive.
He ended up joining themilitary.
He was a ranger, did five toursin Iraq and Afghanistan, super
war hero.
But when I was young I'd lookat his little picture and I said

(26:36):
I can't kill myself because ofhim.
I'm his Godfather, I can't dothat.
That night they came with thegospel.
Jesus is knocking on the doorof my life.
He wants to give me theabundant life I'd never heard
about a personal relationshipwith Christ.
I'd heard about religion.
Religion turned me off.
Church turned me off Abundantlife.
That turned me on.
And so I looked for them afteron campus.

(26:57):
I couldn't find them and it's abig campus, university of
Ottawa.
I loved it, I loved myexperience there.
I couldn't find them, but theday before Christmas I think it
was actually the 23rd ofDecember, going into the 24th I
was at my brother's house forChristmas and my brother is 11
years older than me.
He is a rock star in my mind,kind of like a surrogate dad.
My dad was First Special Forces.

(27:18):
I wear his ring to honor him.
But he's First Special ForcesKilled a lot of people in the
Second World War.
If you've ever seen the moviethe Inglourious Blank, that was
based on my dad's unit, thedevil's brigade, and so my dad
was part of that and soobviously he was damaged.
But back then we didn't talkabout PTSD.
So my dad was successful butnot emotionally healthy.
So I hadn't talked to my dadfor about a year because I was
mad at him for whatever.

(27:40):
So my my dad gets there the 23rdand I thought I'm going to talk
to my dad.
So he came in and he would justshut down, wouldn't talk to me
for a long time.
So when he came in he didn'tsay hi to me.
I was so mad.
I went in my room, startedpacking my bags and my brother
my brother says Paul, what areyou doing?
And I said I'm getting out ofhere.
He said why?
I said because I hate dad, Ican't be in the same house.

(28:00):
And he said Paul, what's goingon?
So 11 year olds, older than me,and I just share my heart.
And I was hard.
I didn't cry, I was hard, hard.
And he says you know what youneed?
I said no, mickey, what do Ineed?
He says you need to receiveJesus Christ as your savior and
Lord.
The same thing I had heard aweek and a half prior and I said
I'm never going to receiveChrist.

(28:22):
We tried religion.
It doesn't help.
He didn't argue with me.
He got down on his knees,started praying like this I'd
start crying.
I fell to my knees.
I mean it was weird, because aminute ago I was hard as rock.
The minute he fell to his kneessomething hit me and I was on
my knees crying.
And so that night I I rememberhe gave me a book on prayers.
Here I lay me down to sleep, Ipray the Lord my soul to keep,

(28:44):
Because I'd go to bed everynight drunk or stoned.
And so that night I had nothing.
And so he gave me a book, aprayer book, and I prayed little
baby prayers.
Christ came into my life.
The next morning I woke up earlyand I said God, okay, you want
my life.
I said I want two things Healmy relationship with my father,
because that was broken.
Going back to my VAT right, Ourrelationship with our dads is
really important.
Heal my relationship with myfather and give me a love for

(29:04):
life.
Because I was suicidal.
I really was.
I was depressed, very depressed.
So the next morning I wake upand everybody's asleep.
I wasn't stoned or hung over.
It was weird, it's kind of aweird experience.
And I walk into the kitchennobody's there, All the lights
are off.
I look in the living roomthere's one little light.

(29:25):
My father's sitting there and hegoes come on, come here, paul,
we need to talk.
I'd never forgot I.
I looked at him and I saidyou're real.
And from then on I never turnedback.
I got off of drugs, I stoppedchasing women, I stopped
fighting.
I was a big fighter in hockey.
I stopped fighting and I becamepeaceful.
I found Christ.
I mean, of course, the journeywas long.
I needed a lot of healing and Ilearned how to be healed in my

(29:47):
relationship with my father andI ended up leading him to Christ
.
It's just the story is too longfor this show, but yeah, it was
a real deal.
So what are young people needingright now?
We come from jacked up families.
50 to 80% of kids are beingraised without a dad right now.
Homes are broken.
Why are they?
And they sex, the drugs, thepower, the lying it gets.

(30:10):
What is it?
The philosopher Pascal said inevery person's heart there's a
God-shaped vacuum that only Godcan fill.
Well, that's what I discovered.
I tried all these things andthe only thing that really
worked was Christ.
Christ in me, the hope of glory.
So I did receive Christ andthen later I was filled with the
Holy Spirit and I read my Bible.
I moved in with people fromCampus Crusade for Christ,
literally because my roommatewas a drug pusher, it was, so I

(30:30):
didn't get out of the dorms.
I got in with staff membersfrom Campus Crusade for Christ
Bill Bright's in heaven now Ihonor him Changed my life.
I would wake up every day and Ihad real, real strong
Christians with me.
I went to a Bible study Fridaynight.
Instead of getting stoned, I goto a Bible study.
It took me about a year to finda church because I didn't even
know what church you go to, whatreligion you go to, what

(30:53):
denomination you go to.
I had no idea, but I would goto any Bible study there was.
And then I had one of the peoplefrom Campus Crusade just
disciple me, sit with me everyday, work through a little book
and help me understand who I wasand talk to me about sin, and
that made me mad.
I'm supposed to be feeling good, yeah, but you let God take
care of the shit in your life.
It was awesome stuff.
I mean there's a lot ofsetbacks, but I never turned

(31:14):
back, never turned back.
So I think that's why a longanswer to a short question,
that's why 20 year olds rightnow are turning to Christ.
I think they're just so sick ofthe world that they need Christ
, and he is.
Christ is real and his spiritis real.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
Amen, yeah.
So he said something I neverturned back and there's a lot of
setbacks, but I never turnedback.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
I love that.
Never turned back.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
So then I want to kind of pivot into your
pastoring days, yeah, and I wantto talk about just that growth
that happened.
I guess that time how long, youknow, just briefly, was that
time you know, receive Christ,you received that calling over

(31:54):
your life.
You know for God to say, youknow you're going to be
pastoring.
And then really I want to getinto some other things, like
what, the growth of ICOV man,because I know you had, I
believe I know that you had likea hundred.
There was 150 people that wereum working alongside you there.
I know you had a lot of peoplethat have been um instrumental
in my life.
That came right alongside youunderneath you, learned
underneath you, however you wantto describe that Maybe you

(32:16):
learned a lot from them, jeez.
So, and then the impact thatGod allowed for you to have on a
national standard or nationalscale.
So just ICOV, that growthleadership within there.
Chat about that.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah well, as you know, I wasn't trained to be a
pastor, so when I took over asmall church of 200.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
No seminary.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Well, I went to seminary but I studied
psychology, okay.
So I went to University ofOttawa, then Ashland Seminary,
ashland University in Ohio, butI wasn't trained to be a pastor
because I didn't see myself asthat good.
I saw myself as I was a brokenperson that God redeemed.
So I feel very comfortable withhurt people because I was a
hurt person.
So, long story short, in 92, wetook over the church.

(32:58):
There were 200 people there andit was just I'd known the
pastor because I was hiscounselor, his friend, his
support, you might call it.
So I knew the church and it wasa very broken church.
He was a great pastor.
I was not a good pastor, I'm agood leadership trainer and he
was a great pastor.
So he'd go to the bar at 2 AMand pick somebody up from a bar
and I mean he was a shepherd, hewould go and get that one

(33:19):
Didn't matter where he was.
He's a great man.
His name is Robert Douglas,great, great man.
He led it for five years and Itook over after five years and
led it for 29 years.
But I basically had to go.
I didn't know what to do.
I said, listen, I'm not okay,you're not okay, but god loves
us and the church grew.
So my messages were simple godcan heal you, and there wasn't

(33:42):
all that much to my messages,but god loves you and so I help
people get healthy.
I thought if I have a healthychurch, the church grow, which
it did.
Then I discovered that if Iinvite the Holy Spirit into the
church, our church, god would doamazing things.
And so long journey for 29years, and I'll tell you that in
five minutes.
My thing was Ephesians 4.11from the very beginning, if I

(34:05):
equip people, equip the saintsfor the work of the ministry.
When I was a therapist I foundout that hiring therapists and
training therapists was betterthan me doing all the therapy.
So my first counseling centerstarted with one.
At the end I had 17.
So that's my last counselingcenter.
I started with one, at the endI had 17.
In Sacramento.
It was monstrous, probably oneof the largest Christian
counseling centers in America atthe time.

(34:26):
It was awesome.
We had 400 and something in oursupport groups.
It was amazing, successful.
So I understood the idea ofmultiplication.
Like Huckleberry Finn, I canpaint the fence or I can find
people to paint the fence.
So this is good for business.
You can do everything andthat's a dish and that's you
could have a pretty decent life.
But if you start adding people,you make more money and you

(34:46):
have more freedom.
If you learn to multiplyyourself through them, now
you've gone from addition tomultiplication and then it's
exponential.
So at the church, that'shonestly get healthy, train
leaders to be healthy, equipthem, empower them, recruit them
.
Equip them, help them gethealed, empower them, release
them in their jobresponsibilities.
So we had like when I left, wehad four or 500 volunteers that

(35:09):
were actively involved in doingthe work of God.
I think we had a hundred andsomething employees, 105
employees.
I think it became a very, verybig, big deal or big thing, I
don't know if it was a big deal.
It was a big thing and we had,I think, eight staff members in
Europe and we helped startchurches around the world.
God did it.
So I give him all the glory,but he took the simple
principles of become healthy,train leaders, be filled with

(35:30):
the spirit, recruit, recruit,recruit, recruit, empower, get
them healthy, train your team.
And, of course, then I justsucked in everything that was
Maxwell.
80% of my time was spent withmy 20% of my church.
So they're the doers, they'rethe givers, they're the ones
that are really going to dosomething.
80% of my time was spent outthere, so that was, and I use

(35:51):
those simple principles.
The same thing happens in abusiness and then you add things
like your attitudes.
That determines your altitude.
For me, I'm a big attitude guy,so I work with my staff, my
volunteers.
Attitude how you look atsomeone, how you treat someone,
how they feel, do they feel theatmosphere?
Salt and light.

(36:11):
That's salt and light.
Salt and light biblically is.
Am I going to influenceeverywhere I go?
So I teach people and I do thisaround the world now I did it
in Madagascar recently.
I did it in France the other dayis basically find out their
name, find out where they'reborn, give them one compliment.
Do it at the Starbucks line,because we live in a world

(36:31):
that's very critical and verydivided.
I walk up to someone and say,hey, man, I'm Paul Barculay, how
you doing?
I don't give myself a titlebecause that distances people,
even when I had titles.
Now that I don't have titles,that's easier, but when I had a
title I didn't like it.
I didn't like it.
I tell people just call me Paul, mark, call me Paul.
Call me Paul, mark, call mewhatever you want, but because
titles would separate me.
So I go to people now and youfollow me around.

(36:52):
Matt, we'll go to that.
We were together for coffee.
Notice what I did.
Hey, what's your name?
Where were you born?
Why?
Because it's important.
It was Jesus of Nazareth.
It was Paul of Tarsus, I don'tknow why.
It's God's secret code.
You find out their name, youfind out where they're born and
then you give them a complimentI love your shoes A sincere one.
Now, people can manipulate thatfor sales, true, but what if

(37:13):
it's sincere?
What if you actually do careabout people?
What if you actually lovepeople?
You want to know their name,you know it's important where
they're born and you want togive them a compliment.
And, if time permits, you getdeeper.
You ask more questions.
Show me a person who has theright questions.
I'll show you an intelligent,successful person.
So that's my gig right now.
That's my 30, 29 years of theInternational Church of Las

(37:34):
Vegas.
At first it was called WestValley Assembly of God.
Then I changed it to WestValley Assembly.
Then I changed it to theInternational Church of Las
Vegas, because the visionchanged from a community church,
from something that was verydenominational.
I didn't want it to bedenominational at all,

(38:11):
no-transcript.
I had these principles becauseI wanted to go from surviving to
thriving, thriving to addition,addition to multiplication.
And I knew it was by pouringmyself into my staff, my
volunteers, my team.
That was a smart.

(38:32):
I could tell you all my mistakesI made in my life.
That's an easy one too Throughtherapy I get those, and through
altar times.
But the good thing is that wasa good thing and God just went
and he grew it.
I think he grew it way, way,way, way, way beyond my
capabilities.
I always tell people I'm thedonkey, ride me into Jerusalem,
jesus, way, way, way beyond mycapabilities.
I always tell people I'm thedonkey, ride me into Jesus, ride
me into Jerusalem, jesus,because I'm really just a donkey

(38:53):
.
I'm an old hockey player, anold fighter, an old drunk.
I am.
That's what I was, and now I'mredeemed.
But it doesn't take away thatI'm still Paul Mark Goulet, I
still have a history, so I'm notall puffed up with myself.
I thought, yeah, I could tellyou stuff that I've done and
people that are in my innercircle.
You go what I could show you myphone and the phone numbers I
have my dad.

(39:14):
It was really good at this.
He taught me this.
I give him credit.
He said, paul, all men bleedred because he saw his friends
die.
50% of his brigade died inbattle and then he became a
president of a large corporationand I was always enamored with
people.
He goes all men bleed red, paul, they all bleed.
And so everything I've done.
I give God all the glorybecause he took an old, drunk
hockey player, a Canadian, whoended up having this amazing

(39:37):
life and now I'm 67.
Yes, I know I look 47, but I dotake good care of my health,
like you talked about today.
I do oxygen chambers, I dosupplements, I do 10,000 steps a
day.
I'm taking care of me becausethis is the temple of the Holy
Spirit.
I want to make sure that I'mtaking care of this thing so I
can go further for Jesus,because one day I will die.
But at the end I want to go.

(39:58):
The kingdoms of this world havebecome the kingdoms of my God
and you helped me change it justa little bit.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Absolutely.
I want to talk about the HolySpirit real quick.
I just got just a question.
So, as a believer, we get fullfilled with the Holy Spirit and
I think when we get intodifferent things businesses,
church, you know, whatever thosethings are standing in line at
the grocery store we can invitethe Holy Spirit in.
I guess my question is becausewhen I pray over events like

(40:26):
we'll go out and do these tentrevival events on Tuesdays and
these evangelism events and I'llinvite the Holy Spirit in, Is
that biblically accurate?
100%, Okay, 100%.
Now, if you have the HolySpirit as a believer, you can
still invite the Holy Spirit, Iguess.
Just help me understand that.
What a great question.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
I like your question.
It's my favorite question.
Okay, now we're going to get inHoly Spirit, which is super
cool.
Well, when we receive Christ,we receive the Holy Spirit.
Because how does Christ enterus?
Literally, the Bible says Jesusis seated at the right hand of
the Father, intercessingforevermore.
He's at the right hand of theFather right now.
But when we receive Christ,we're actually receiving His

(41:04):
Spirit.
Remember, in Luke, chapter 24,he says I've got to go so that I
can send the promise of theFather.
The promise is the Holy Spirit,it's the Spirit of Christ.
So that's why Jesus had to go,so that he could send the Holy
Spirit, his Spirit.
So how is Jesus in, can be in 8billion people at the same time?
Because when you invited Jesusin, who came in?

(41:25):
The Holy Spirit came in hisSpirit.
That's what the Holy Spirit is.
It's the Spirit of Jesus.
He came in and filled us, right, he came in and entered us.
We become born of the what Ofthe Spirit?
Right?
We're born of the Spirit.
That's what the Bible says.
Not born of water, we're bornof the Spirit.
That's what happens when we areborn again.
We receive.

(41:45):
So whether you're Baptist orevangelical or you're
Pentecostal, we're all bornagain If you've received Christ.
Like I work with evangelicals,I work with Baptists, I work
with the 28 versions of Baptists, I work with the 30 versions of
Pentecostals or Charismatics,call yourself whatever you want,
ultimately we're Anabaptists.
We've received if you read whatan Anabaptist is, just check on

(42:06):
, Google it but we've receivedChrist.
We've had the most of thesecond baptism.
I was baptized as a baby.
I was born again as an adultand then I was baptized as a
believer.
So that's when you received theHoly Spirit.
But there's a difference betweenreceiving the Holy Spirit and
being full of the Holy Spirit.
Doesn't the Bible say thatStephen was full of the Holy
Spirit?
It didn't say he just had theHoly Spirit, he was full of the

(42:27):
Holy Spirit, didn't in Acts,chapter 10, they walked into I
can't remember the town andthere were believers in Jesus
Christ.
He says have you received theHoly Spirit?
I totally believe in thatencounter with the Holy Spirit
where we become full, and theword full is baptism.
When you read I could gothrough a lot of scriptures but
I won't bore you with that or wedon't have time for that but

(42:48):
conceptually, when I receivedJesus, I received his spirit.
Done, we're going to heaven, wehave the Holy Spirit in us,
100% true, but there's anexperience.
When did the disciples receivethe Holy Spirit?
When they believed in Christ?
In Luke, chapter 24, when Jesusbreathed on them and said
receive the spirit.
Or did they receive it on theday of Pentecost?
Listen, we're all going toheaven.

(43:10):
I'm glad I'm not going to arguewith anybody.
However, I came to the beliefthat I could be filled with the
Spirit Filled, and that thatfilling can be several fillings.
And I can't.
It's not coming to my mind, butPaul at one point said and be
filled with the Holy Spirit.
So the concept of being filledis something that's really cool,
because I do believe I can askfor the Holy Spirit to come into

(43:31):
this room.
I believe I can pray that hebaptizes me, which means
overflowing, overspilled,overfilled.
But I also believe there'stimes where I said Holy Spirit,
come and fill this room, comeand overwhelm me with your
spirit.
I've experienced it.
I believe it's biblical.
I believe I could go throughhours of it of discussions with
anybody that wants to.

(43:51):
However, I'm answering yourquestion.
Is it proper to say fill me?
Is it proper to say fill thisroom?
And remember when the spiritleft the temple.
They called it Ichabod.
The spirit has left.
So, as a believer in JesusChrist and with all my Baptist
friends and evangelical friends,why not ask for the Holy Spirit
for more?

(44:11):
Whether you believe in theclassic baptism and then people
get stuck on things like tonguesor whatever else, why are you
getting stuck on one of thegifts?
Where's the harm in going?
Holy Spirit, come and fill mein this event.
Come and fill the stadium.
I 100% believe it's true.
I 100% believe it's biblical.
I have a story I could tell youif you're open, if we have time
.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Let's hear it.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
You want to hear it?
Yeah, all right.
So I'm theologically trained by.
I went to a brethren's seminary.
I was discipled by Caps Crusadefor Christ, not a charismatic
organization Well, wonderful one.
So my training was not in thePentecostal realm but I believed
theologically in the filling orthe baptism of the Holy Spirit.
I believed in it.

(44:54):
I believed I had the HolySpirit, but I believed that
being baptized or being filledwith the Spirit was biblical.
I didn't know about the rest ofit.
So I literally.
So theologically, I believed init, but I had not experienced
it.
I was very intellectual so Igraduated with high honors from
graduate school, summa cum laude, johnny cum laude.
I can't even remember what itwas.
It was as high as you can go.
So I'm not a stupid person.
But I was always praying forthat filling of the Holy Spirit
but never experienced anythingphysical, like wow, like wow.

(45:17):
But theologically I believed Ihad the Holy Spirit.
That was good enough for me.
I was Baptist and Brethren andall the other organizations.
We were happy.
But theologically I thought I'mstill going to pray for that
baptism or that filling,overfilling.
I actually became a pastor inLas Vegas where I had never
really experienced the fullbaptism, the filling because I
believe there's degrees offilling, just as we ask him for
more.
And so.

(45:38):
I was.
Literally, when I came here Ididn't know what I was doing.
I was really.
I was pathetic.
I was just such a patheticpastor I really was.
I still, to this day, believe Iwas pathetic, but I believe
that I love God and love people.
So he helped me, right?
God helped me not be thatpathetic.
I started fasting and praying.
I'd done it one time in my life, one day oh, this is 92.
So I've been a Christian since78.

(45:58):
, so 14 years, and I'd neverreally been baptized in the Holy
Spirit and never really beenoverfilled, only fasted one day
of my life in the first 14 yearsI came here.
I was so pathetic I said I knowbiblically it talks about
fasting.
So I started fasting every week, thursday night to Friday
dinner, so usually 20 to 24hours.
I would not eat.
I'd go into the desert in thewinter and go on Mount

(46:21):
Charleston in the summer and Iwould just literally just pray.
See God, cause I was.
So I did not know what I wasdoing, so I thought I better
fast.
You know what I was doing.
So I thought I better fast.
You know, I know it's in theBible, right.
And then one day I'm on top ofthe mountain in Mount Charleston
and I something hit me.
It was the weirdest thingbecause I couldn't
intellectually understand it butI literally started dancing on

(46:46):
top of mountain in Red Rockchanting.
It must've been tongues, I'mnot sure, but it sounded like
native Indian and I thought am Iliterally losing my mind right
now?
I did and I thought.
But it sounded like nativeIndian and I thought am I
literally losing my mind rightnow?
I did and I thought, but itsure feels good.
So if I'm losing my mind, thestress of being a pastor doing
something I'm not good at, fireaway, and I remember dancing on
the mountain and dancing.
And then I went to church thatSunday I'll never forget because
we'd grown from 200 to I thinkwe're about 600.

(47:07):
Yeah, we grew from 200 to 600in like six months.
We're about 600.
Yeah, we grew from 200 to 600 inlike six months and without the
real infilling or the baptismor call it whatever you want.
And so I'm there and theworship starts and I just
started laughing.
I don't know why.
I had the joy of the Lord.
It was the weirdest thing.
My wife looked at me and sayswhat's wrong with you?
Stop laughing.
I said I can't, I justsomething hit me and I went up
there and I just said I don'tknow what it is, I can't

(47:30):
describe it, but I'mexperiencing something
internally that I can't explain,and it was joy.
I don't know why.
The first time it hit me wasdancing on the mountain looking
like an idiot, and the secondtime I just had this indwelling
joy and that was the beginningof my journey with the Holy
Spirit.
So I know it's a there's many,many more stories.

(47:50):
I don't want to scare anybody,but I want to encourage people.
What do you got to lose?
My Baptist, my Lutheran friends, my Catholic friends.
I was with a businessman oneday.
He was going through a hardtime, very, very successful guy.
If I told you his name, you'dknow it, and it was like I call
it pre-evangelism, pre-churchtime, but I'm salt and light

(48:11):
right.
So he's going through a really,really rough time.
I said can I give arecommendation?
Just try it and see if you likeit.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
He goes, yeah sure.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
And I said listen, tonight, before you go to bed,
ask for the Holy Spirit to fillyou.
Not born again yet, haven'teven prayed the prayer, right,
and I thought, man, I'll throwin another one and see what
happens.
Comes back a couple of dayslater at the gym, he goes.
What did you do to me?

(48:37):
I said what do you mean?
He goes.
I prayed that prayer.
All I want to do now is readthe Bible and give stuff away.
I said nice.
I said I have an organizationwith inner city kids.
They're looking for computersDone, and he ended up giving I
don't know how many he gave thatday.
It was really kind ofincredible.
But I really believe that when,if you dare ask, I don't care
what your background is, ifyou're a Buddhist, if you're a
Muslim, if you're a Catholic, ifyou're, I don't care what you

(49:01):
are Invite the Holy Spirit intoyour life and if you're open to
it, he's a spirit, he's real andhe loves to be invited in.
Invite your Holy Spirit intoyour business.
Invite your Holy Spirit intothe counseling center, into your
counseling practice.
Invite the Holy Spirit.
Can I tell you another story?
I'm buying a car, true story.
True story I'm buying a car.

(49:21):
You say can you invite a HolySpirit into a purchase of a car?
You better believe it.
Why?
Because when I need help, Ineed the Spirit.
I can't function without theHoly Spirit.
So I'm in there and then theybring me to the finance manager
tag, add a bunch of things.
I don't want go over my budget.
I set a mark of three.
I think my mark was $300 amonth.
That's all I want to spend.

(49:41):
So I'm sitting there and I'mgetting nervous and I'm feeling
the pressure because they'regood.
They're really really good atit and I'm sitting there going
literally.
Not that you always feel it,because Holy Spirit's not a
feeling, but you can feel itsometimes.
So I'm sitting there also, Ifelt the Holy Spirit Enter the
final signing in the final, andthe head of the finance of the

(50:02):
car dealership turns around,goes what is that?
I go.
Well, what do you mean?
He goes.
I felt something I said wouldyou like to know he goes?
Yeah, I said it.
I invited the Holy Spirit in tothis room during these
negotiations.
It ends up that his wife was aChristian and he was backslidden
.
Well, what happens?
The Holy Spirit loves him,never gave up on him, but
decided to enter the room in agreater measure.

(50:22):
You've seen a greater measureright when you've had your
meetings on the streets orwhatever you've had business
meetings.
I mean I walk into thisbusiness, it's so I feel the
Holy Spirit here because you'veinvited him, right Bam.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
That's your answer.
Yeah, I mean so.
I've experienced that.
I experienced that quite a bit.
Most recently it was preachingout on the streets.
There was times, and so itdidn't look like the way that it
had normally looked.
It looked a little bitdifferent than the way that I
was accustomed to.
I was very charismatic, if youwill, in my preaching.

(50:56):
Then God started to strip me ofme in between preaching and I
didn't realize that.
I felt like a fish out of waterduring the season and I was
praying before we decided tomove our, our evangelism to the
tents, to right by the liquorstore.
We were a little bit furtherdown Now.
We moved right by the liquorstore and we had a uh.

(51:17):
God gave me this, this idea,vision to do back up a truck
right there.
We set up our tent, we have agrill, we have all these
resources out there.
That way the dope dealers, thedrug addicts, everybody could
hear over an earshot, but not soclose that they wanted to go do
their stuff somewhere else.
And I was just praying, the HolySpirit just fill me up before
that and just became extremelyemotional.

(51:37):
Next thing, you know I'm gettingup there and I don't stop when
I speak, and especially wheneverI get to go on, but all of a
sudden I was stopping andthinking about what I was about
to say.
Next, and it was just theanointing of the Holy Spirit
fell on that place and you couldsee people, god affecting
different people and touchingdifferent people throughout.
It was one of the mostincredible times that I've ever
had, because I stepped off orstepped away, and I have no clue

(52:00):
.
No clue what I said.
I have absolutely no clue.
I couldn't tell you to this daywhat I said, but the amount of
comments that came from what Godwas doing in those moments was
unlike any other time, and sothen, what God shared with me
was, like Matt, I had beenstripping you of you and of your
flesh and of the things thatwas making me speak in different

(52:22):
ways before, and I'll sharethat on another podcast, but it
was incredible, man, and I wantto talk about.
We're kind of going off, which Ireally like this the one thing
that's not talked about withinthe church that I hear is led
and spirit-filled.
There you go.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
I think every denominational person out there
watching go.
I've heard of being spirit-led.
How do you're spirit-led?
You're led by the Holy Spirit.
You're filled.
You're led by every day,whether you're preaching or
building a business or speakingin front of a political event.
Keep going.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah, the dividing wall between being able, I guess
, to be filled.
I don't even know if this is athing.
This is the way that I wouldlook at it, though, as a
believer.
The thing that would hinder youis sin, maybe, from receiving
the full Holy Spirit, or whatGod has for you, sin in general
and repentance, and usingrepentance as a way to get

(53:15):
closer to the Lord, if you will,and as an entryway into getting
closer to the Lord.
It makes me think of Acts.
You know, repent and bebaptized, but just sin in
general, in the state of thechurch, in the state of pastors,
and just thoughts on that.

(53:44):
Thoughts on why sin isn'ttalked about so much to this day
, why health isn't talked about,why we see a lot of believers
out there that are serving theirversion of God rather than a
biblical God, because we're notpreaching sin anymore and we're
skipping over things.
Thoughts on that.
That's a loaded question.
I'll get in trouble here.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Okay.
So, I brought one book.
I give my books away andeverything goes to Madagascar
but I wrote a book called theFive Powers of God, which helps
our experience with the HolySpirit be relevant and logical
For me.
I speak more to non-Christiansnow.
When I was a pastor for 29years, I spoke Christianese, but
now, as a Christian, I need tomake these things relevant,

(54:23):
logical in terms that are notChristianese.
So I try to because, see, mostpeople are really open to God.
Our packaging has been bad.
So even the term sin.
They won't like the term sin,but it's biblical and what it
means is missing the mark.
When a New Testament believerheard the term sin, literally,
they were using the Greek termarchery.

(54:43):
You miss your mark, you'remissing a target.
So no one had a problem withthat.
I remember when I first heardthe word sin, I thought I hate
that word.
It sounded religious Sin.
We've all missed the mark.
We all make mistakes.
A lot of people tell me I'm nota sinner.
Yeah, we all are.
Have you ever made a mistake?
Yeah, then you're a sinner.
So am I as a pastor?

(55:03):
When I was a pastor, did I sinsin?
Of course I did.
I missed the mark so manystinking times.
What we did is we made the termsin religious and not practical.
We should talk about sinbecause we all missed the mark.
And then, as Christians, whatwe tend to do is cover
everything.
Like you said, we'll jump overcertain verses.
Why?
Because we don't want to offendpeople.
We don't want them to look goodand sound good and smell good,

(55:25):
but not be good.
That's what Jesus said.
You whitewashed sheffielders,you brood of vipers On the
outside you're all nice andshiny, but the inside you're a
bunch of dead bones.
Boom, boom, boom.
That's Jesus.
Like how to make friends andinfluence people.
That was not Jesus.
Jesus spoke the truth and a lotof people got mad.
I always say this.
He says listen, the truth willset you free, but at first it
makes you really mad.
So should we be talking aboutsin?

(55:46):
One hundred.
But we should be using termsbecause it's been so
religiousized.
I made up a word that we haveto use terms with normal people
because we're in the normalworld Right now.
I've trained the government ofMadagascar.
I wrote curriculum for thewhole country, literally, I had
to take out everything that wasChristianese and I wrote eight
values for the country that thepresident picked.

(56:08):
I thought, okay, tell me whatyou want me to write.
And they told me, write aboutthis.
We're writing about values.
Done, give me the eight values.
I actually took the eightvalues and I wrote it in
non-Christianese.
I trained his whole government.
Then I trained thousands ofentrepreneurs.
Why?
Because you have to restructureyour country based on values.

(56:31):
When I missed the values, whatam I?
I said I missed the mark.
When your business is notvalue-based honesty, integrity,
good service go through yourlist of what your values, the
core beliefs of thisorganization here, those are
your values.
When you get off the values,are you sitting?
Will people like that term?
No, because it's a term that'sbecome so connected to weird
stuff that I actually choose tosay have you ever missed the

(56:51):
mark?
Have you ever made a mistakeDone?
Then we all sinned, because myjob is to make the Bible clear
to non-believers.
Because there's so muchreligion there's very few
relationships anymore.
They know religion.
They know enough religion tohate it and they know enough
church to hate it and they knowenough hypocrites to hate it.
So my job is to be salt andlight, like.

(57:15):
I walked into room one time andit was just like the presence
was.
It was awesome.
And I had a guy who was verywealthy go, I want what you have
.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes.
I don't know you got thisenergy on you.
You got something on what isthat that you have?
I want that, Literally, justlike that Cause powerful, rich,
powerful people.
They see stuff and they want it.
And then I said, well, if youreally want to know what, you
can talk about a little later,not in front of this group here,

(57:36):
but let's sit down and talkabout it if you're really
serious.
So we did.
Why?
Because I'm trying to make theBible, which has been taken out
of context.
It's a first century.
The New Testament is firstcentury.
When he said sin, it meantarchery, missing your mark.
Nobody has a problem with that.
If anybody says they've nevermissed a mark, they're liars.
Bible says if there's anybodysays they have no sin, they're a
liar.

(57:56):
The truth is not in them.
So I think as a church, we're tocome into the church.
Our focus is that, instead ofcome in so I can train you,
equip you, go, change your world.
I think the second big problemthat we see with the church as a
whole is it becomes experienceoriented.
So, like you go to someconcerts right now Christian
concerts, they're fillingstadiums.

(58:16):
I'm glad about that.
It doesn't mean they'rechanging the world until they
take it into their business,into their career, into their
family.
Do you see what I'm saying?
So I think that's what we needto see.
We need to see an outwardcentered church, we need to see
a quipping church.
And the other thing is we needto take this concept of
something being spiritual andsecular.
That's not biblical.
Everything was spiritual in theOld Testament and New Testament

(58:40):
.
So what we have now is comeinto the church because it's
spiritual.
Get into the ministry, whichmeans come and serve at the
church or get paid for it orvolunteer.
No, real ministry is whatyou're doing in this company.
That's real ministry.
Street witnessing is justanother form of ministry.
So when you're building acompany that glorifies God, when
you build a company that'sprosperous, when you have
values-oriented company, you areliterally doing spiritual

(59:03):
things.
I think the church says come andexperience this and they base
their value based on numbers.
Oh, my church has grown to 500or 400 or a thousand.
That's the wrong.
You're putting the emphasis onthe wrong syllable.
In other words, your emphasisis wrong, pastor.
Your emphasis should be howmany people have I trained to go
change the world?
Jesus started with three, then12, then 70, then 120, and 500.

(59:27):
That was his entire ministry.
Of course he spoke to themultitudes, but that was the
multitudes.
Look at who he trained andequipped.
That's what we have to go backto as pastors, and some are
doing it really well.
So I'm not at all putting shadeon all churches in America.
There are wonderful, wonderfulchurches that are doing actually
this.
Your church is probably likethat, but there's a major
problem and there has to.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Okay, I want to.
I want to talk about we'regoing to kind of start wrapping
up.
I want to get into Madagascarand really get into.
We'll have to get an update onMadagascar and talk about, you
know, just some things you'remost excited about before we get
into that Cause.
I want to wrap up with theMadagascar and how that all came
about.
I want to talk about leadership.
I know that's also anotherthing for you.

(01:00:12):
That's something that I startedstudying, leadership last year.
Whenever I was in class, Istarted to study leadership.
I had always relied on mynatural ability to lead, you
know, and and then you, youstart to understand things that
I really need to start to studyleadership.
And so I read Maxwell books.
I read some of Maxwell one ofMaxwell's books actually that

(01:00:34):
started to change my wholeperspective.
Craig Groeschel started toconsume these different podcasts
that put me on to justdifferent levels of leadership,
and it was I was always exposed,or always had this idea of
leadership because of certainpeople in my life, of this
top-down leadership you know ofyou pay attention to my title
and it's my title, is the reasonwhy I am a leader over you, and

(01:00:57):
rather than trying to go off ofinfluence and try to influence
them, and that transformed myworld.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I love it.
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
I started to understand that because I looked
at it just like that, becausethat was a leadership that I saw
, yeah and so, um, and then, youknow, there was a time, when I
first came out to Vegas, that Iwas really looking like, okay, I
really want to get around goodleaders and really good leaders.
And I started to pray towardsthat.
God started to put me aroundleaders.
I just didn't have good leadersin my life that I looked up to.

(01:01:26):
That I was like, okay, this ishow I want to be, and then
started to have people come intomy life that I'm like that's it
, right there.
Because there's people fromafar like what you're talking
about, Like you know, Tim Tebowwas one.
Don't know the guy I knew thatis what I like.
He has something.
I grew up with a deadChristianity.
You know we go to the four wallchurch.

(01:01:48):
That's it.
Don't go outside of that.
We have church on Sunday,Wednesday, maybe you know one of
the times throughout the week,and that's where it ended.
Right there, we're not businessas ministry, we're not any of
this.
So through studying scripture,through studying leadership, God
started to reform me, and thatwas going back to the fish out
of water.
I'm like, yeah, this isuncomfortable.

(01:02:09):
Leadership, isn't this?
Like you're doing this wrong.
You're correcting people allthe time and you need to follow
me because I have this title.
What I have found is more ofthat influence, and I know
Maxwell talks about that as well.
Thoughts on leadership todayand just how your journey of

(01:02:30):
leadership, everything doesn'tmatter.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
If it's the government, it doesn't matter.
Are we bold enough asChristians, to invade every
kingdom?
And then we influence people,so, like every morning, that's
why I spend an hour to two hourspreparing myself for the day,
because I want to be filled upwith his word, with his spirit.
I want to have all the garbagegone so I'm filled up, to be
spilled out.
So a leader is someone thatinfluences salt and light.

(01:02:54):
That's all leadershipprinciples.
And then I think, really thegoal in leadership and you have
to read the material For me, ifI'm a healthy person, so I wrote
30 days to emotional health, 30days to spiritual health, 30
days to relational health,because if you're healthy,
you're going to have a betterinfluence, you're going to be
salt.
Jesus looked at his disciplesand said you're the salt of the

(01:03:14):
earth, you're the light of theworld.
He didn't say he was, he saidyou are.
So think about that for asecond.
If I'm a leader, I should walkinto every room and influence it
.
For God, it doesn't matter howbad it is, it doesn't matter.
When I first got saved, themistake, leslie, that I made and
Matt, was that I was told hey,jesus is coming back tomorrow.
Don't get out of the schools,get out of politics, get out of

(01:03:41):
education, because don't polishthe brass on a sinking ship.
That's what I was told.
I thought that doesn't makesense to me, so I didn't listen
to them and I went for myeducation.
Then I leadership is all aboutbelieving that you are the
person that can influence theatmosphere in a room, in a
family, in a company.
Leadership is not control, it'sinfluence, like you said.
So when you study the fivelevels of leadership that
Maxwell came up with which isjust super good, I won't go into

(01:04:02):
it, but conceptually I spendmost of my time in my Bible, but
also in leadership material,what's going to help me?
I read.
Like when I did my doctoratelast year, I read this book
again From Good to Great, oh, mygoodness Jim Collins, I think.
Yeah, I think it was my third orfourth time reading it, but for
some reason the lights went onthis time and I got it.
Who's on the bus and are theyare in the right seat?

(01:04:22):
So I was running a largeorganization and I also had a.
I was given a federal grant bythe government to help.
It's called the Dad Inc or theFatherhood Program.
So I started that years ago.
I got the grant $5 milliongrant which is great.
So I had to look over all my.
We had a school, internationalChristian Academy.
We had the sports academy thatwe started, the International
Sports Academy.

(01:04:42):
So for me is I believe that ifthese leadership principles are
true which, like I said, we'realways getting more right the
Bible is the great place and weget more mentor coaches wherever
we're going to get thatinformation and we start
implementing into ourorganization.
We start then training leaders.
I don't want to be just onegood leader, who's salt, I want
to then train leaders.
So who are your 10 to 12?

(01:05:04):
So, like I'm starting with mybuddies, I'll be in Houston next
week and we're doing somethingcalled the growth journey, and
this is for Christians,non-christians, outside the four
walls.
It's all about saying listen,businessmen and businesswomen,
we want to go on a journey withyou and it's going to take.
It's going to be five levels ofleadership and five levels of
growth.
We're going to help you growand we promise by that happening

(01:05:25):
you'll be in a journey with us,your company will grow, you'll
grow, you'll be happier, yourfamily happier, because we're
going on a journey.
So what have I discovered?
Leadership is actually ajourney, not an event.
There are great events aroundhere, great leadership events,
but Maxwell taught me years agoI went into France and I started
something called Equip it wasthe leadership curriculum and we
just started training people120, I think, was the first

(01:05:47):
level one and then we said we'llbe back in six months, so we
would pick a city and spendthree years three years going
there, training and thenfollowing up.
I don't know how many of thesepeople are now.
We're in 34 cities now.
They went from justexperiencing an event to a
journey, which was arelationship.
So no one's really doing thatin the US.

(01:06:08):
So I've got some buddies oneguy from a famous MMA fighter
he's in the Guinness Book ofRecords and another guy who's
like a real.
I mean, he spoke at Yale nottoo long ago and impacted one of
the princes of Saudi Arabia.
The guy's amazing.
The three of us are gettingtogether, we're going, we're
taking it outside the four wallsof the church.
It's not going to be aChristian event.

(01:06:29):
It's going to be a leadershipevent that, if people can
actually go on a journey with us, they will literally change
their families, their industries, their companies.
People focus on experiences,not on journeys.
So that's what.
So June 27th and 28th 2025,we'll be in Pittsburgh for our
first one.
Houston, we're doing awhiteboard next week.
This week we're doing awhiteboard finalizing all the

(01:06:58):
details of it.
But you want to talk aboutleadership Like you're the owner
of a business and everyonearound you.
You're training once a month.
That's teaching people thatlife is about a journey, not an
experience.
We have to get away from agreat experience.
When I was a pastor, I broughtin some of the most famous
people and I thought did thatreally change my congregation or
they were just a hired gun tocome bring a good message and
experience or maybe hype?
So I've really revisited myexperience.
All my mistakes I go.
I would have been more growthfocused.
Now I'm more growth focused, somaybe these will be my best

(01:07:20):
years.
Yeah, I'm praying it will be.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Okay, that make sense .

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Yeah, I like that about.
Okay, so what is before?
I got another question.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yeah, Fire away.

Speaker 1 (01:07:31):
Keeping up with these questions.
Uh, when you talk about, um,the lessons that you learned,
yeah, I know.
When we met for coffee that oneday, yeah, you know, I've got a
lot of plates spinning and Ilike that.
I like to do 10, 15 differentthings at one time.
But I also like to behyper-focused on things to the
point to where, if I, if there'ssomething that needs to be done
, a new level that needs to begone to, then I'll lock myself

(01:07:55):
in my office for weeks, developwhatever needs to be developed
and then implement it to my team, and then we start rocking and
rolling.
And that's my way of havingfive, 10, 15 things going and
then just focusing on one thingand then getting back to those
things, but ensuring that I havethe right people that are
advancing those things.
And I also make sure that youknow I I'm big on time blocking,

(01:08:17):
yeah, and also I've startedbuying back time, yeah, whether
if you're talking just throughtime blocking or through
actually paying people to dodifferent things.
So one thing that I won'tcompromise on is my family, you
know, and it's time with myfamily, you know, and no, but
it's still a struggle, you know,when you have things.
You have a lot of, you know.
Um, I'm grateful I have myfamily with me almost every

(01:08:39):
single place that I go and thatwon't change, no matter if
somebody comes in and fills,maybe, a role that they're doing
.
They will still be right hereor I will be right there while
they're doing what they feelcalled to do.
So the question is conversationstarter would be lessons
learned to somebody, cause Iknow you're a very high achiever
.
You like to, you like to do alot of things.
I do.
You've got a lot of thingsgoing and have had a lot of

(01:09:00):
things going.
What'd you learn from all that?
Like, what would you learn justfrom?

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
Okay, mistakes that I was.
I'm like you.
I love to do a lot of projects.
I get bored.
They say when I was growing upI had a little bit of ADHD.
And they say but they say somemost successful people in the
world have ADHD.
So I'm a little bit ADHD.
I do get bored, but that's partof my spiritual and emotional
and intellectual DNA.
If you look at the fivefoldapostles, prophets, pastors,

(01:09:26):
evangelists and teachers, ifyou've read your Bible you know
there's five.
But that's in the corporateworld as well.
I'm an apostle, hashtagentrepreneur.
Not that I want a title, butI'm really good at starting
things.
And then I'm really good atstructuring things.
But then follow up.
Goodness gracious, I betterfollow.
I better hire someone to followup and make sure that all the
widgets in the right place.
I know where the widgets shouldbe, but after a while I just

(01:09:47):
get bored.
I'm an entrepreneur, I'm astarter.
I'm like Paul, a chiefarchitect.
I can go into a city.
I can go into a company.
I do executive things.
I go into churches and I gointo nonprofits and companies
and I'll just read their mail,I'll just analyze it, I'll meet
their staff, I'll interviewpeople and then I'll give them
executive.
I just came back from anorganization where I got to

(01:10:09):
write the report.
Now it's like whoa, I enjoy itbecause I'm apostolic, I'm
entrepreneurial.
Thinking Makes sense.
Salespeople are evangelists.
Salespeople are evangelists.
Customer service should be apastoral type of person.
So every gift mix, everybiblical gift mix, has a
parallel corporate gift mixMakes sense.
So I learned that.
I learned that everythingspiritual is actually secular.

(01:10:30):
Everything secular is spiritual.
I learned that I learned thatthe greatest achievement is
going to be built through a teamand I think sometimes I ran
ahead of my team.
Sometimes I get bored and runoff to other things and left
them with the plates spinning.
I could have done a much betterjob.
My dad used to say this.
He called it Peter principle.
He says, paul, be careful thatyou'll rise to your level of

(01:10:51):
incompetence.
Oh, that's interesting and Ithink I never saw myself as a
big deal or a mega church pastoror all the stuff that God ended
up using me for.
He's wise enough.
I never planned that.
I think I rose to my level ofincompetence in different ways
and the only thing that got meas far as I got is I did
surround myself with pretty goodpeople.
I surrounded myself with prettygood people, but I think I ran

(01:11:12):
ahead of them.
That was one of my mistakes.
I ran ahead of them.
I could have done a better jobof.
What I think you're doing now isjust making sure you're
maintaining that growthinitiative or growth pattern.
You want your company to grow.
Then you're investing time andenergy to make sure your team
grows.
I think I did learn that.
I learned that now.
And so people say, go back andtake a church.

(01:11:32):
Or I was offered a university.
I said, no, I don't want to doany of those things.
I'm just waiting on God for thenext chapters.
That's where Madagascar came in.
That's where these trainingsare coming, in Pittsburgh and
then St Louis, and then NewBrunswick and Houston and then
here.
So I think we're going to dofour or five a year.
That's it, because then we haveto go twice a year to that city
, and so I've got to be carefulthat I'm really committed to

(01:11:53):
that growth journey and I don'trun ahead too far with these
people.
So that's another thing Ilearned.
I made so many mistakes, butI've learned.
Hopefully I've learned a lot ofthings, but I learned some
things and I'm charting thisnext chapter of what does my
life look like?
Because it's different, becauseI don't want to just repeat it.
I repeated I don't want to goback to my old ways.

(01:12:17):
I want to go.
I want to go into the new realm.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
So it takes a lot of growth there.
It takes a lot of changing mythinking, because I tend to fall
back in my old patterns Makessense.
Oh yeah, Madagascar.
I know that was how that was,when we had talked on the phone.
You'd share a little bit withme about that.
I would love to know how yougot into that.
What, just what?
What happened?

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
All right, long story , this is amazing.
In an hour you've gone through30 years of my life,
madagascar's eight years.
So I'm going to go througheight years in about six minutes
, seven minutes.
Eight years ago because I'vespoken in front of a lot of
people and I'm known as aleadership guy, and so I was
invited to Madagascar to train6,000 pastors and leaders Big,
big event, big event, a good,good event and I mean it was

(01:12:50):
amazing.
They wanted to know abouthealthy believers.
So I wrote a whole curriculumcalled healthy leaders, and then
healthy, healthy believers, andthen healthy leaders, and so it
was great, phenomenal.
I mean, here's people inMadagascar.
36 million people live in thatcountry.
I didn't know the country at all, I didn't do a background check
, I just went, oh, oh, gee, oneday at the leaders leading me on

(01:13:10):
the streets and little girlsare looking at me like I'm Santa
Claus, and I go what's up withthese kids?
They go oh, they think you'retheir hope because you can buy
them for $5 a night.
I go what do you mean?
Sex tourism is big in that town.
I got so mad.
I went to my room.
I started crying.
I was mad.
I'm not mad at God, I was madat little kids being trafficked.

(01:13:33):
I was mad at these kids,thousands of kids on the streets
.
They're either in gangs orthey're being trafficked and and
, uh, you know, they're poor.
I'm so blessed and I just wasoverwhelmed and open sewers, it
was just horrible.
The movie, movie, movie.
Madagascar is fun, animalsdancing.
You don't see that?
I mean, there are beautifulareas there and the president's

(01:13:54):
phenomenal, he's helping changethe country.
But it was at the time, eightyears ago.
It would be bad.
So I told God, I'll do anything, god, to help these kids.
I'll do anything to help thesepeople.
So I thought doors are going toopen up and then they stayed
closed and I thought I'd raise abunch of money.
But nobody in the US, like I,wanted to buy those kids
involved in soccer and get themcleats, and a lot of them didn't

(01:14:14):
even have shoes on.
And I want to do practicalstuff.
It's fish and loaves of bread,it's companies, it's buildings,
it's whatever.
So I think that way.
So then I got I retired from theInternational Church of Las
Vegas and I didn't know what Iwas going to do.
You don't know, but I had twostrokes and a brain bleed and I
almost died.
I was in the back of anambulance and I was dying and

(01:14:35):
they're going stay with us, mrGoulet, but by this time I'm
looking down on them.
My soul and my spirit were likeon the top of the ambulance.
I'm kind of like looking down.
It looked like that to me andand, uh, I said God, give it all
away.
So when I retired from thechurch, I gave up everything,
salary, everything.
I gave up.
Um, I gave up, um, the grant,federal grant.

(01:14:56):
I gave it all up.
I gave up.
I had 140,000 people readingsomething called a miracle every
day, right?
So I had a lot of peoplereading my stuff every day.
It seemed to be working andhelping people.
I walked away from everything.
I was having struggles in myfamily.
My health was not good.
I got into a program called theAmen Clinic in California where
they therapy, medication,oxygen chambers, because when

(01:15:17):
you have two strokes in a brainbleed, trust me, it affects you.
I didn't think it affected methat much physically, but I
didn't think that emotionallyI'd be affected, but it did.
So I was kind of limping alongfor a couple of years there and
so by the time I retired thingswere going rough in the family.
I just thought I need to getwell, I need to prioritize my
family, I need to prioritize myhealth, and so I just retired

(01:15:38):
March 11th of 2022.
I walked away from literallyeverything and I thought, all
right, I'll get healthy.
And I did.
I mean, by the grace of God.
17 months after I startedtreatment, he goes Mr Goulet,
here's your old brain, here'syour new brain.
You've been completely healed.
Go back to work.
I thought what do I do?
I didn't know what to doanymore.
And so, long, long story short,I was in prayer one day and I

(01:16:00):
didn't see an angel.
I didn't hear a voice but in mybrain, go to Paris and I'll
tell you what to do when you getthere.
Now, that's a risk, because thechurch didn't give me a long
pension.
They gave me six month pension.
So I didn't have a pension andI didn't.
I opted out of social securitywhen I was young, so I didn't
have social security.
Thank God, I had retirement, Iput money aside, I had good
investments.
So thank you, jesus, I'm goingall right.

(01:16:22):
Okay, I'll use mileage.
So I use mileage to get thereand I had a friend that wanted
me to to to do some littlespeaking here and there and
cause I've done a lot of stuffin Paris.
So I get to the airport and heforgot to pick me up, so I used
mileage to get there.
I had no money coming in exceptfor my retirement stuff that I
put aside personally.
And I'm going, Jesus, I flewhere for nothing, I'm freaking

(01:16:43):
out, and I call a friend of mine.
His name is Jean.
I said Jean, jean.
I said I'm at Paris.
No one picked me up.
This other guy forgot me.
I don't know what to do.
I used my own.
I didn't have a ticket home andone way ticket to Paris to find
out the will of God.
It's like Abraham leaving Ur.
It's like I literally was.
I had no idea.
I had no idea.

(01:17:08):
So Sean says I got a friend, sohe called his friend.
His friend put me up for anight in a, came into town in
Paris and I went there to stayat his house.
And I go where you been?
He goes Madagascar.
I hadn't been for four years.
I go wow, tell me about it,because, remember, I made a
commitment to God that I wasgoing to do anything, but all
the doors were closed.
He goes.
Yeah, the president is saved.
He loves Jesus and he wantsvalues.
Curriculum would you write it?

(01:17:29):
I went to Paris to be invitedto write curriculum for a whole
country.
So I wrote the curriculum.
It was accepted by thegovernment and they flew me in
for four weeks and I trained hiswhole government and then he
goes hey, paul, you want to goto Israel with me, with the
president.
So I went to Israel with hisfamily and with my buddy, eric
and Chantal, and we all went toIsrael and we had Bible studies

(01:17:49):
together and we grew reallyclose.
It's Matthew 28, disciplenations.
So here I am, saying no to allthese opportunities and I said
yes to going one-way ticket toParis with no, not a lot of
money.
And God says you saidMadagascar.
Four years later I'll give youMadagascar.
So then I finished thatfour-week segment, came back
here and continued my counselingjourney, continued my health

(01:18:12):
journey and then I startedwriting more and long, long,
long.
Story short, the journey camearound.
I helped with the homeless heredowntown.
I went through the pains of adivorce.
It was not my choice, but I'msure I was part of it and went
through the pains of a divorce.
Never expected divorce.
So therapy helped, prayerhelped, went through the pains

(01:18:32):
of divorce.
I thought I'll never be apastor again and I thought, okay
, god's going to use mesomewhere.
And at the time I just stilldeep in therapy, still deep in
counseling, making sure myhealth is good.
I thought I'll go help peoplemore miserable than me, because
when you're a Christian and youget divorced it's bad.
When you're a pastor and youget divorced, you're the devil's
cousin.
So I went through a really,really hard time and I'm not

(01:18:54):
putting any shade on my ex.
She's an amazing person.
I bless her.
I don't have time for thatnegative garbage, but I can tell
you that I went through ahorrible time.
But the Bible tells me Micah,chapter three, I think.
It says what does the Lordrequire of you, man?
Put to love justice, to domercy and to walk humbly before
your God.
So I told myself the only thingthat makes me really feel good
is when I help people worse offthan me.
So I got super involved withthe homeless here.

(01:19:16):
We'd go to tunnel and we helpedthe homeless and it was a
clinic.
I was finishing my doctorate atthe time and I did six months
there.
It was amazing.
I thank God for that experiencewith the homeless.
We had some tremendous success.
And then I was asked to helpwith the veterans and we did a
big event at the AllegiantStadium and because I'm good at

(01:19:36):
organization and I'm good atleadership training, I formed
all the teams and got it readyand then handed it off to them
and they ran the event and soI've been.
And then after I finished thatthen I think it was I said God,
what do I do next?
And I get a text fromMadagascar hey, paul, would you
train a hundred thousand leadersa year?
I thought let me pray about it.
So I want to see if it's myassignment, because I don't need
to do anything right now.

(01:19:57):
I just do it because I'm.
I don't have a title anymore, Idon't have a job title, but I
have a big yes to God.
I'm not married.
So I've got 13 grandkids and myfamily's doing pretty well.
Now God's really touched it andI get along well with my ex and
I'm going.
Okay, god, I'll go anywhere youwant because I can.
Now I literally have noresponsibilities but to help.

(01:20:19):
So I get a lot of phone callsfrom people because of my, like
the movie Taken.
I have a.
I have a set of remember whenhe calls.
He gets a phone call and hegoes.
I got a particular set ofskills.
Remember that his daughter waskidnapped.

(01:20:47):
I have a particular set ofskills.
I can help people and I don'tcare about titles, I don't care
about money, money will come in.
I have no, I have zero.
I have no worry about any ofthat.
But I gave a big yes to God.
So now I started training ahundred thousand leaders a year
in Madagascar.
I just came back, trainedthousands and thousands of them.
I provided some fish and breadto the rugby team.
I get a phone call.
Someone says, hey, can you?
So my goal is to train 100,000.
I don't know how I'm going todo it.
People say how are you going todo it?
I don't know.
Do you have a staff?
No, do you have money?
No, I said yes to God.

(01:21:08):
They asked me.
I said yes, I'm my needs help.
Would you help him?
I said sure.
Literally, I'm on call rightnow.
I get phone calls from all over.
Some are the lowest of thelowest, some are really really,
really powerful people that callme up because they know I'm not
in it for me.
I already had my near-deathexperience.
I know that I'm going to heaven, I don't know when, that it is

(01:21:38):
no-transcript.
Get to Madagascar, train thepeople.
And I was asked to help withthis guy.
So I got on the phone and said,sir, how can I help you?
He goes, well, we, we have arugby team that wants to go to
the world cup qualifiers and hesays but we, we lost our

(01:21:58):
sponsors, we have no cleats, thewomen are playing barefooted.
First of all, have you everplayed rugby?
No, yeah, my wife was thecaptain of the rugby team, that
gentle little dub there that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
I just what the heck.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Well, we need to talk .
I played rugby a little bit.
Long story short.
I go all right.
So what do you need?
I need 32 pairs of cleats.
I prayed about it.
I try to share the vision withpeople, but in America, well,
who cares about Madagascar?
I'm more caring about.
So I thought, all right, I don'thave a salary coming in, but
I'll find money.
So I told the gentleman.
I said I'll buy them, go get aprice, I'll pay for him.

(01:22:37):
So I sent him money and it wasmore money.
So he bought medical equipmentfor the trainers.
So literally the girls, thewomen played with the rugby
cleats that I bought them andthey went to the world cup in
Dubai.
They ended up in sixth place.
So I I was just in Madagascarbecause he put on exhibition
matches so I could see.
I said, sir, listen to this,you're a little freak out.
It talks about how we should beout there in the world.
I go, sir, if I buy you shoes,would you give me permission to
tell them about Jesus and trainthem in leadership?

(01:22:58):
Because, remember, I want theirsalvation but I want to
disciple them.
What's a secular term fordiscipleship?
Leadership?
I don't use the termdiscipleship.
Can I train them as leaders?
He goes absolutely.
I said how many kids in therugby federation?
He goes 55,000.
I said, sir, would give me.
If I get your shoes, would yougive me permission to tell all

(01:23:18):
55,000 about Jesus and and andhelp train them in leadership?
Oh yeah, I said you can give mepermission?
Yes, I said do you have abuilding I can use?
He goes yeah, I've got astadium.
I said can use it whenever youwant, you can use it.
Well, what about having matches?
Yeah, so I got a stadium.
I have access to 55,000 kids.
I just bought cleats for thesegirls to play in and now I'm

(01:23:39):
their hero.
And when I walk in, I met themand they're so.
Thank you so much.
You bought us cleats.
It's so awesome.
So now I have a vision ofbuying 55,000 pairs of cleats.
I want every kid in thefederation to have cleats.
You say that's stupid, that'ssecular.
No, it's not.
Jesus gave them fish and gavethem loaves.
I'm believing God.
For 55,000 pairs of shoes?
Oh, I thought I had it out ofCanada.

(01:24:00):
But if you're a Canadian personand you can be a nonprofit and
I can I can get 55,000 pairsdonated, I think.
But if I can run it through you, I don't have a Canadian
nonprofit.
They want a giving letter.
So that blocks.
I said God, maybe I'll start afactory there.
So I was going to go buy afactory.
So I went online and tried toam I going to buy a factory?
Two days before I left, I had aphone call from a prophet

(01:24:23):
Really, I don't say that termlightly.
I think he's the only prophet Ireally know, a guy that really
is just a real one.
He goes hey, I'm just callingyou.
I hadn't talked to him in 10years because I just had you on
my heart.
What's that?
What are you up to?
I told him.
He says well, I want you tomeet a guy.
He says who is he?
Well, he starts factories incountries.
What kind of factories?
Shoe factories.
So now I've been in negotiationwith a guy that will probably

(01:24:45):
start another shoe for kids.
I want to put 55,000 pairs ofcleats on these kids and I want
to put Jesus on the side and Iget to tell them and teach them
about Jesus.
Yeah, it's, it's way biggertraining a hundred thousand.
I don't have the budget for it,but I have the.
Yes, I don't have the budgetfor 55,000 pairs of shoes, but
God's putting it together.
I want to get a pair of shoeson every kid that plays and I

(01:25:09):
want them to know where it comesfrom.
Now, when I get there, he getswhat he shows me.
He shows me a building.
He says I have a vision for asports academy.
I said, well, I had one inVegas.
I started a sports academy inVegas.
I started at a small schoolsports academy.
I thought it'd take me threeyears to get these kids good,
because we're competing againstbig schools.
First year, we won.
Second year, we won.
Third year, we won fourth year.

(01:25:30):
Year one we had a kid sign withReal Madrid in Salt Lake City.
I think it was a year later,two years later, my grandson
signed with Real Madridpro-contract at 13 to go to Real
Salt Lake City.
So do I believe invading thekingdoms of this world?
Yes, do I believe thatMadagascar is going to be 100%
transformed?
Yes, and I've spent eight yearsdoing it and I'm actively

(01:25:50):
involved in doing it now.
So I've committed to a hundredthousand and I've committed to
55,000 shoes because I want towin 55,000 kids to Christ and I
want to disciple them, hashtag,train them as leaders.

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
I love it.
Okay, so we're wrapping up, man.
I, I, uh, I just want to thankyou for my pleasure coming on.
Man.
I, uh, uh, I just want to thankyou for coming on, man.
I, uh, I've got so many otherquestions that we could we could
get down into, but we'll savethat for for another episode.
I, uh, man, just want to thankyou for coming on, man.
It's awesome to watch just theHoly spirit move and uh, and to
to learn from you, um, and justto hear your heart, man.

(01:26:30):
So we're going to pray forthose 100,000.
We're going to pray for the55,000 shoes.
We're going to believe that.
Anybody out there that has aheart to help with that, reach
out to me, reach out to Paul,let them know how can people
find you so?
internationalresourcecenterorgor com whatever International
Resource Center.
Why?
Because we just want toresource people, so just go to

(01:26:51):
international InternationalResource Center.
Why?
Because we just want toresource people, so just go to
international.
Thanks to Kingdom Wealthmanagers, mark McCoon and his
team, they actually developedthe landing page for me for free
, thank you, because I have nostaff and I have no budget.
I only have Jesus and friendslike you.
So, yeah, if you want to helpInternational Resource Center
and or contact Matt, because Iwant to bring Matt to Madagascar
because basically it's trainingcompanies, it's training.

(01:27:12):
I mean, I don't know how tostart a shoe factory.
I have a guy that knows how,but I don't know how to run a
factory.
I'm just.
I'm just a guy you know how toI walk through your factories,
like maybe he should help runfactories.
I don't know.
I just know that if I give ayes to God, he'll provide the
rest.
And I know we're going to pray.
I want to pray for those thatwant to say yes, but I do want
to pray for people that havebeen through divorce, because

(01:27:34):
Christians listen, been throughit, done that, got the t-shirt,
got the scars.
It's not good.
The Bible says God says he hatesdivorce.
That's true.
Why?
Because it's painful.
God hates divorce, but hedoesn't hate you.
He doesn't hate me and you'revery much a Christian and God
can use you and your journey'snot over.
I don't know who needs to hearthat, but I know I needed to
hear that and I had some reallyclose friends in a pool.

(01:27:56):
One day my friend was tellingme God's going to still use you.
I go no, he's not, I'm done.
God's going to use you.
No, I'm done, I'm divorced.
I got the big D word.
It's interesting, but asChristians, we have no problem
with someone struggling withdrugs or alcohol or whatever
thing, but if a Christian goesthrough divorce, somehow we put
them aside and we call them asecond-class citizens.
I just want to.

(01:28:17):
This is the first podcast thatI've told people I was divorced
and there's a reason for that.
It's been three years.
I love Jesus, I love God, Ilove people, I love life, but I
feel for all the otherChristians because, do you know
this?
40 to 50% of Christians getdivorced.
The divorce rate hasskyrocketed amongst Christians,
but we don't talk about it.

(01:28:38):
So because I'm a mental healthguy, I'm going to talk about it.
So I had a guy a year ago saywould you write a book?
And I said I'm not ready.
But now it's been three yearsand I've had my journey and I'm
in a good place.
So now I'm going to talk aboutit because I want to talk to the
40 to 50% that feel you'resecond-class citizens.
You're not.
You just went through a divorce.
Don't blame your spouse.

(01:28:58):
Don't accept all the blame.
It definitely takes two totango and the devil hates you
and he hated your marriage.
So if you went through adivorce, I just want to tell you
right now I'm going to findresources.
I've not written anything now,but I will find resources for
you.
So if anybody I don't know Ifeel led.
If anybody has been throughdivorce and you're a Christian,
don't drop out of church.
I love my church.
I go every single week.

(01:29:19):
Don't run away from God andblame God for your divorce.
It wasn't his fault either.
What I want to encourage you todo is let me help you find
resources to help you navigatethe divorce that you went
through as a Christian.
Because if 40%, we're nottalking about it.
So I'm taking the rabbit out ofthe bag today and I'm opening
up the discussion.
I love you.
God loves you.
He has a plan for your life.
Awesome Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
I want to thank you for Matt and Leslie and I want
to thank you for Aaron.
I want to thank you for thewhole staff here.
What a tremendous company.
I'm so impressed.
I get hope by being with themtoday.
So, lord, I just release such ablessing on them.
I release a period ofmultiplication.
May their company continue todouble, quadruple.

(01:29:59):
May their team continue to grow.
May it be healthy and strong.
Father, may you protect them,lead them not into temptation,
but deliver them from evil, forthy is the kingdom, the power,
the glory, forever and ever.
So, lord, I release blessingson them more than they ever
imagined.
I thank you for this podcast.
May it grow, grow, grow, growin influence, and I'm declaring

(01:30:22):
that in the name of Jesus Christ.
Amen.
And touch everyone that's beenthrough the pain of divorce.
Touch them right now.
Touch them right now.
God hates the pain you've beenthrough.
It's not his fault.
He loves you and he's got aplan for your life, and I bless
you in Jesus' name.
Amen, amen.

Speaker 1 (01:30:37):
Beautiful man, that was awesome.
Bam, that was awesome.

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Paul Marc Goulet: Salt, Light, and the Spirit: Transforming Every Kingdom

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