August 12, 2024 • 31 mins
James sits down with Samantha Borg, Senior Director of Sales for Kaseya in Australia and New Zealand, to uncover the secrets of successful sales leadership.
Samantha reveals the lessons she's learned during her seven-year tenure at Datto and Kaseya, including the importance of hard work, passion, and building a team that thrives on trust and accountability.
Navigating the challenges of imposter syndrome, managing a large go-to-market team post-Datto acquisition, and dealing with underperformers—Samantha opens up about the emotional and operational aspects of sales leadership. Her candid reflections on balancing empathy with assertiveness and the demanding nature of VC-backed software companies are eye-opening. Learn how she leverages fundamental sales processes and mentorship to overcome these obstacles and lead her team to success.
Lastly, discover the strategies Samantha employs to hit sales targets, understand the path to deal closures, and maintain a cohesive team culture amidst significant acquisitions. Drawing inspiration from experts like Simon Sinek and James Kerr, she discusses eliminating organizational toxicity and aligning team goals. Tune in for invaluable insights that aspiring sales leaders won't want to miss, and connect with Samantha for more guidance on LinkedIn, where she actively engages with the professional community.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Borg (00:00):
It's not a job for the faint-hearted, and I don't
expect it to be.
He said Sammy, I just don'tknow if you're going to make it.
James Bergl (00:08):
Were you working nine to five?
Oh fuck, no.
Sam Borg (00:12):
No, no, no, no.
I would love to even do thatnow, to be perfectly honest, but
I think good leaders are hardworkers and they don't watch the
clock.
James Bergl (00:20):
From selling denim to recruiting to running a
65-person software sales team.
I had the chance to sit downwith Samantha Borg today.
With Kaseya, we went into herframework for success, her daily
routine and her philosophy forhow she successfully builds
high-performing sales teams.
Enjoy the show, sam.
(00:40):
Incredibly excited to have youon the show today.
Battle scars of a sales leader.
This is a podcast that we'vethought about for a while.
My experience as a sales leaderis that when you look at brands
, organization, vendors,individual sales leaders, on the
surface they're a little bitlike ducks.
They're often very calm,collected, they're beautiful,
but underneath those legs aregoing crazy and those legs have
(01:03):
often got a lot of scars withthem.
So the fact that you and I haveworked together I know some of
those scars that we both facedover the years together.
But I would love to exploresome more of those scars, some
of the lessons that you'velearned what it was like to move
from non-sales sorry, non-techsales into tech.
Sales kind of a little bitlater on in your career to what
a lot of people do.
Sales kind of a little bitlater on in your career to what
(01:25):
a lot of people do, and whatyour career trajectory has has
been like.
So, for those that don't knowme, don't know you, sam, please
give us a quick introductionyeah, cool.
Sam Borg (01:31):
So samantha borg, uh, senior director of sales for
kaseya for australia and newzealand, um yeah, so I've been
been in the company for forseven years now.
I'm actually spent about fiveof those years over in new
zealand, uh, leading thego-to-market team there and
growing out the Kiwi operation.
And then came back about a yearand a half ago to run Australia
and New Zealand have about 65or indirect reports at the
(01:52):
moment with seven sales managers.
So it's been crazy kind ofcontinuing to grow and scale at
the velocity that we've had andI sometimes pinch myself saying
why me?
So, yeah, plenty of battlescars to share.
James Bergl (02:05):
You've earned the right to be that senior director
and you've grown and you'veprogressed Like you've
absolutely earned it and I was.
You know I look at with prideand excitement to watch what
you've achieved, like I'm reallyreally proud of what you've
done.
If we go back to a little bitof the earlier side of your
career actually I want to goback to before you even got into
(02:25):
recruitment like you jumpedinto recruitment.
You were in recruitment for anumber of years.
Like what drove you to jumpinto recruitment in the first
place.
Sam Borg (02:32):
It's such an interesting question.
I did.
I think I'd gotten torecruitment when I was about 23
and spent five years there, andprior to that I worked in retail
for eight years and alwaysthought that I would sell denim
for the rest of my life, justloved it.
I've always been quite apassionate person, like whatever
I did.
I worked at the cinema and inhospitality, I suppose, and I
went to, I went to retail.
(02:53):
I was working two, three jobs,going through school as well.
I've always just been reallydriven.
I forgot your question, butthat's okay.
Do you want to tell me?
James Bergl (03:01):
Yeah, no, the question is you know what, what,
where?
How did you go from you knowselling denim into recruitment?
And I then want to say, likewhat was that transition going
from you know five years ofplacing salespeople into vendors
to actually going?
I want to try this myself aswell.
Sam Borg (03:17):
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's a really good question.
I think I've always had anatural curiosity for people and
for problem solving.
I actually did a gender studiesand cultural studies degree and
I really learnt kind of theinner workings of the mind and
people and why they do what theydo, and so I think I was drawn
to recruitment because it kindof brings people and a whole lot
of those things together, Isuppose.
(03:37):
And then you know, I spent fiveyears doing that and I loved it
.
A lot of battle scars, evenfrom, you know, my old sales
director and my old generalmanager.
We used to spend a lot of timecrying and fighting and yelling
and actually just blood, sweatand tears trying to get deals
across the line, which I willnever forget.
But I feel like I hit a bit ofa glass ceiling in that role and
it was a 30-man company.
(03:59):
I just looked at my careerwhat's next?
And I really, I looked to techand thought, hey, fast paced,
really innovative and a goodopportunity for me to cut my
teeth and to somewhere to seemyself long-term.
So that was what inspired me tomove to tech.
I think I used to recruit forAlex, the old HR director, so he
put me in touch and then Ithink we also knew what's his
name the Autotask guy.
James Bergl (04:20):
Adam Ross.
Sam Borg (04:25):
Adam Ross sorry, adam ross, adam ross sorry.
We also had a mutual connectionin him, so uh naturally took a
look at data.
I did about 14 or so interviewsand uh fell in love with the
place and, yeah, obviously to beunder your leadership was um,
which was incredible.
James Bergl (04:33):
So well, I know, I definitely remember the first
time that I met you.
I was just like before we'deven been through many
interviews.
It's just like we need to getsam on board.
I just I loved your energy, umthat you brought.
I love the love, the drive, theabsolute desire to win, and
you've still got that inabundance today, which is
absolutely why you are where youare.
It's interesting, we swappedroles.
Sam Borg (04:54):
We have.
James Bergl (04:56):
What's interesting is some of the organizations
we're working with today.
They specifically say I like tohave people that have been in
recruiting.
I like recruiters and Iremember thinking this as well
when I was a hiring manager,because people often don't like
recruiters and you get a lot ofrejection, a lot of nose, a lot
of nose and a lot of doorsslammed on you and a lot of
(05:16):
people that just don't want todeal with you.
And I think if you can get yourskin that tough, then that sets
you up for a really strongcareer in SaaS sales.
Sam Borg (05:24):
Yeah, 100%.
James Bergl (05:25):
So can you remember ?
You know your first yearworking in Datto and what that
was like, and you know Iremember some of the
conversations that we had andI'd love to get your opinion.
There was a learning curve.
You never thought you had adoubt in getting over it, but
what was that like for you to gothrough that process?
Sam Borg (05:43):
I think about this a lot.
I I share this war story with,with a lot of my reps that, uh,
I remember just going again fuck, have I done?
I really don't understand this.
And I was in the trenches forthe first three months and I
even remember my old boss, adam.
He said Sammy, I just don'tknow if you're gonna make it.
I'm like you're probably right,brother, I don't.
I just don't know if you'regoing to make it and I'm like
(06:04):
you're probably right, brother,I don't really know what I'm
doing.
But I persisted and the onething I had was my hunger and my
aptitude to have a call and askquestions.
And you know, I rememberputting hours into figuring out
what these products were andwhere they fit into the
ecosystem.
But one thing that I just madesure I went back to was my roots
and understanding sales processsetting up appointments, asking
(06:25):
the right questions, reallygetting to understand the
partners and what their needswere.
And then I just jottedeverything down and I had
billions of questions and so,yeah, I think it was really
tough and I don't think that itclicked for me, probably until
month four or five, and I reallycame into my strides.
James Bergl (06:42):
In those first four to six months when you're going
, I don't know if I'm going tomake it.
I always knew you were going tomake it, but I can, I'm going
to have words with Adam.
How dare he speak to you likethat.
But what are you?
What are you doing Like?
What sort of activity are youdoing Like?
What are you telling yourselfto persevere and break through
that barrier of of just like?
I'm in deep here and I don'tknow what I'm doing?
Sam Borg (07:04):
Honestly, I reckon I'm a bit of a sucker for
punishment.
It's, it's.
I'm.
I'm fine with the, with thediscomfort and being in the
trenches and just figuring itout.
But yeah, I think it's justgoing back to basics.
Is you will get there, you'recompetent, you're capable.
Ask the right questions andyou'll figure it out.
So I don't think there's muchmore to it than literally
(07:25):
pushing through, are you?
working nine to five oh fuck, no, no, no, no, no.
Um, I would love to even dothat now, to be perfectly honest
, but I, you know, I think goodleaders are hard workers and
they don't watch the clock.
Um, but it is blood, sweat andtears.
James Bergl (07:40):
It's early starts and it's late nights it's
working over the weekends andyeah, because and it's the
reason I ask that because youknow we're in this funny um
phase.
We've gone through COVID, we'regoing through this concept of
hybrid and it's all about likelooking after the employees and
having um, having uh, flexiblework and um.
There's this at times, thiswoke community where you know we
have to look after our staff,otherwise that they they may
(08:02):
report us or you know somethinglike that.
But reality is, the reality isthere is a direct correlation
between work in and output aswell, and you've just absolutely
proven that.
It wasn't the concept of a nineto five, wasn't even your
vocabulary.
Sam Borg (08:18):
No, yeah, and it's something that I continue to
reflect on right as we grow andhire and scale businesses sorry,
scale reps in our business ishow do you find somebody that's
inherently successful, kind ofmotivated, to put in those extra
yards without asking for it?
It's you know, if your bosssays jump, you say, well, how
high and how many times do youwant me to jump, and what is it
(08:38):
that I need to do to provemyself?
There's no sense of entitlementand that's very much something
you know when you know youhaven't quite asked the question
yet, but from a hiringperspective is like you
certainly want to try to findthose people that are okay with
putting in those hard yards andnot complain about it, and they
understand that hard work iswhat it takes to get to the top.
So, um, people that have to getup early and jump in the
(09:00):
swimming pool at four in themorning, um, that's what we look
for in terms of that grit,because it's bloody hard to find
.
James Bergl (09:06):
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting, um, cause I'mnow going through this phase of
of startup business here inAustralia again and I'm I'm
thoroughly enjoying it.
I have terrible days, but Ihave really good days as well,
and I've actually had to, likeproactively implement new things
in my life Not necessarily newthings, but just bring in the
(09:26):
concept of exercise and trainingand eating healthy and not
drinking too much and sharpeningmy blade now that I'm frontline
as opposed to in leadership,and what I've noticed is that
with sports and with enduranceor with anything really where
you have to push throughboundaries, like one is you're
training your muscle, thatresilience and how to get
(09:46):
through that, but two, you'realso demonstrating that you can
survive the tough times as well.
Sam Borg (09:53):
I often ask that question of how do you sharpen
the saw and how do you continueto develop your skill set, both
mentally and kind of physically.
Because I am naturally drawn to, and I think, people that have
that grit put in the hard work,they listen to self-development
books, they go to the gym,they've got a routine and they
just have structure in theirlife and the way that they go
(10:13):
about their day and they takepride in that.
So, um, it's not necessarilyeven a trait, because I think
resilience, determination andall of that is kind of table
stake stuff for a salesperson.
How do you structure yourselffor success and how do you?
Do you want to be better, wheredo you see yourself and what
steps are you taking to toactually get there?
James Bergl (10:30):
no, I love that, but the next step in your career
is then going into peopleleadership.
Sam Borg (10:36):
Yeah.
James Bergl (10:37):
And that is another whole thing.
Again talk to me a little bitabout what that transition was
like.
I mean, initially, I'mimagining it started off with a
small team and now you've got 65in the rest of the course.
Sam Borg (10:48):
That's bloody crazy.
James Bergl (10:50):
What was that?
That that?
Um, if you could reflect onlike initially, when you were
first a sales manager, like whatwas that like?
Sam Borg (10:57):
yeah, uh, look, I think the first thing you need
to overcome in transitioningtransitioning from an individual
contributor to, uh, amanagement type role is, you
know, the fact that the eitherlimelight's no longer going to
be on you and your performanceand your excellence.
I actually remember one of mypartners in new zealand.
I've had a really goodrelationship with him.
He's like one of the challengesyou're going to have to think
(11:18):
about as you're a leader is thatthey get the limelight.
And I kind of thought, goinginto that, oh, that's an
interesting thing.
I wonder how I'm going to gowith that.
Anyway, so that was the firsthurdle to overcome and going oh
shit, I've actually got to carefor other people.
It was interesting.
I started with quite a smallteam in New Zealand.
I had a couple of repsunderneath me, but I was still
kind of contributing to thebusiness and had my own quota
(11:39):
and then I took on the teamquota.
Yeah, it kind of feels likeit's gone super quickly and it
feels like six months basically,but I started with about three.
And then when the Dattoacquisition, or the Xeia
acquisition of Datto happened, Iwas in New Zealand it was
actually in Australia at thetime when it was announced and
(12:00):
the SVP was there and he saidyou know what's your appetite?
To come over to Australia andmaybe run the go-to-market team
for us.
And I said, oh God, my rootsare here in New Zealand.
I've built such a greatbusiness.
Love everyone dearly.
I don't know again impostersyndrome.
I don't know again impostersyndrome.
I don't know if I can do it.
Why are you looking at me?
I'm just running little old NewZealand kind of thing.
And then over the course ofreally the last year and a half,
(12:22):
we added about I think we had30 last year and then the most
recent count as of last quarterwas 60 odd reps.
So it feels like it's gonesuper fast and it's now no
longer something that concernsme that it's not me at the top
and that that thrill you getfrom seeing them succeed is far
outweighs any any kind of joythat you get on on an individual
(12:43):
or a personal note can youreflect on any stories in that
first yeah, six months whenyou're managing people, you're
like I don't know what to do inthis situation.
Oh, I'm trying to think of someexamples.
I think you know I'm a bit of asoftie.
I'm a bit of a softie at heart,I'm quite emotional and you
(13:03):
know, it's really finding thatbalance of empathy versus
assertiveness and providingdirection and what to actually
do in the right context.
I suppose I'm trying to thinkof an example.
James Bergl (13:17):
Let me give you a topic performance management.
Okay, yep.
So performance management issomething that I struggled with
when I became a people leader,probably 10, 11 years ago, and I
remember having to have aconversation about someone's
underperformance and they werenot going to be with the
business too much longer and Ididn't sleep the night before.
(13:37):
I tossed and turned, Iliterally could not sleep
because I was just petrified ofhaving this conversation.
It was horrible.
It's still the worst part ofthe job, but that was something
that I personally reallystruggled with, and I mean, I
don't know what your situationis with regards to that, but how
do you handle underperformers?
Because you must have had some.
Sam Borg (13:57):
It's really tough, right, it's something that we've
had to.
There's been a couple of toughconversations we've had over the
years.
I think it starts withunderstanding its expectation
setting on, making sure thatthey understand what the role is
and what's expected, and Ithink it's always then starting
with the opportunity to let themknow what's going wrong.
(14:19):
And I think, when that failsand you kind of go into that
performance improvement planterritory, what I've learned?
It's not easy, because I'mnaturally empathetic as well and
I do see the best in people.
I think it's both a weakness aswell as a strength, but it's
taking a step back to say, well,you know, I've got a number to
hit, I've got millions to bringin per quarter, and naturally so
(14:40):
does the sales manager and sodoes that individual rep, and if
they're not paying for theirseat effectively, we really need
to start to think about, well,what's going wrong and why.
So then we go into that kind ofstructured performance
improvement plan territory wherewe really do need to be black
and white and let them knowwhat's at stake if they don't
deliver.
So I suppose a couple oflearnings in removing the
(15:03):
emotion or the personal side andreally thinking around what's
best for the business and what'sbest for me in terms of my
success and the sales manager'ssuccess, that you know if it's
not quite right then we do needto call it, and I've had tough
conversations where we've had tolet somebody go and they got
teary and then you know, tryingto hold back those tears as well
.
You want to show the empathythat you care for them, but it's
(15:23):
probably not the right job.
So if anyone's got any tips forhow to do it without it
impacting you, we'd love to hearit.
But I reckon it's one of thetoughest parts of the job.
James Bergl (15:39):
No, I think that the way you described that is, I
don't think there's a right orthere's probably some wrong ways
to do it, but I think that youknow, you're certainly certainly
directionally similar to thesort of conversations that I
would have with people.
But I want to shift gears a bitinto what I would would
describe as as the leadershipaspect.
And you know, in in softwaresales and most companies, but in
(16:01):
particular us vendors that weboth had experience with is is,
they can be, um, you know,relatively full-on let's call it
full-on with their expectations.
They've got big expectations.
They're often v VC backed,they're driving the business
with a level of aggression andexpectation on numbers and that
filters down.
(16:21):
It's heavy at the top and itgets lighter towards the bottom.
But there's going to be timeswhere you miss the number number
to hit whether it's macro ormicro reasons in your, in your
control, out of your control,you, you're steering a ship with
65 reps that are all fightingfor the same goal of success.
How have you navigated?
(16:42):
Can you think of a time wherewhere you've been behind that
number?
And how have you navigated andpulled the entire team together
and rallied the troops andactually changed the direction
from being deflated to actuallya turnaround and a success story
.
Sam Borg (16:57):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right.
I mean, if you can't handle theheat in sales, it's probably
not the right industry to be in,particularly in a SaaS-based
business.
The targets do continue to growand that pressure only gets
more and more every quarter, andso there's a definite
acknowledgement there.
There's certainly been quarterswhere we've been close to
(17:17):
missing and all we've missed,and certainly as you get larger,
the responsibility becomes moreand more.
The risk of that also isincreased, right, because
there's more people under thefold and you take more risks on
people as you grow and scale thebusiness too.
So, yeah, I mean there was atime quite recently where we
missed.
That's on you, and so it mightbe at the rep level.
(17:42):
That doesn't quite get to theircommit, but that times 10 and
then a sales manager rolls upthe wrong forecast.
That's ultimately on me andit's my responsibility to course
correct.
And so it's just going back tothe basic making sure that at
every deal we understand everysingle step.
To close why won't it come in?
Why will it come in?
Are we using Bant or are weusing Medic or MedPick, or
(18:03):
what's the nature of that salescycle?
Do we understand the path topurchase for that specific
solution and where can I plugthe gaps?
Because it's not often, youknow, it's not out of the blue,
right, and could we haveactually had three or four eyes
on that problem to be able toprevent it sooner?
So it's again, I don't thinkit's, it's not magic wand type
(18:23):
stuff.
It's going back to thefundamentals of what are we
calling, why was it called, whydidn't it come in?
And then what can we do tocourse correct and move forward.
So for us what's what's reallyimportant is having a regular
cadence of forecasting, both atthe sales manager level as well
as the individual one-on-one repto manager level.
So they'll run it as a podweekly and just drive that
accountability piece for whatthey say they're going to do,
(18:44):
and then the manager to repone-on-one.
We call it a PBR or kind of aTRC process and we run through
pipeline kind of cleansing andmake sure that all the notes are
there and if we don't do thatsomething gets missed, right.
And you know, when we'rerunning a business at scale and
the expectations are so high, ithappens.
And I suppose some of thelearnings that I've had and I
(19:05):
recently inherited two moresales managers and about 16 new
sales reps is.
You know it takes time to buildthat trust in understanding
what your sales manager'scalling.
You've not worked with them fora while, so you expect that the
number they give to you is isis the number and you know I've.
yeah, I really need to stripthat back.
James Bergl (19:23):
And how do you build trust with your leadership
team to ensure that that whatthey're calling is correct and
that you guys are completelyinter interlinked with
expectations?
Sam Borg (19:36):
So you know trust is built day by day.
It's definitely something thathappens over time.
I think trust for me has alwaysbeen being able to it's
accountability.
It's doing what you say you'regoing to do and I think for me
it's leading from the front, isputting myself in their shoes
and being on the front line withthem saying well, would I have
called that and what are thequestions that I might ask in
this process to help validatewhether it will or won't come in
?
I think it's.
You know, it's really commonthings like it.
(19:58):
I mean really table stakesstuff of doing as you say you're
going to do, making sure youadvocate for them and have their
back, and they might make a badchoice, but at the end of the
day you've backed them and ifthey've made a bad choice, let's
work through it and let'sfigure out how not to make that
bad choice again.
So everyone builds trustslightly.
You know you earn my trust, Iearn yours, and then we figure
(20:23):
out how to work togetherdynamically.
James Bergl (20:24):
Yeah, amazing.
You've talked about what Iwould describe with how you
operate in the month, with a lotof rigor in terms of process,
methodology, inspection ofpipeline and cross-references,
etc.
What does a typical day, ifthat's such a thing, look like
(20:45):
for you?
Sam Borg (20:46):
One of the misconceptions you'll have as
you get into sales leadership isthat you've got more time and
in fact I need to schedulebathroom breaks in my calendar
to ensure that people don't bookover so I'm not back-to-back.
A typical day is pretty busy,so there's a lot of rep and
partner calls where we take ourpartners through our vision and
what we're working on and someof the problems we're solving um
(21:06):
anywhere from.
You know a one-on-one to mysales management team.
Maybe it's a senior leadershipuh roundup as well.
Um planning.
We do kind of project kickoffcalls, um, a lot of uh, a lot of
quote approvals, deal strategy.
It's, it's.
It's a busy, it's a really busyday.
I typically start from apersonal perspective working out
(21:27):
.
I'm up at 6am, I work out everyday.
I'm in the office fairly earlyand I'm in back to back to backs
and then we work and we hustleand we rinse and repeat.
It's not a job for the fainthearted and I don't expect it to
be so.
I wouldn't be where I am if Ididn't work hard.
I don't expect it to be so.
I wouldn't be where I am if Ididn't work hard.
Some days I wish that I had abit more breathing space to have
(21:48):
more of a strategic lens, butit's such a variety.
And yeah, I love it but I'mgoing to be a bit mad.
James Bergl (21:55):
Yeah, it's fascinating because, you know,
I've watched and I've observedthe business go from strength to
strength after the Kaseyaacquisition and I'd before um,
that happened with with noknowledge whatsoever, but
culturally there was a slightdifference in the um, in how the
business is operated.
And yeah, I've learned stuff inwatching you, in watching derma
, in terms of of how um thebusiness would get run and and
(22:19):
I've I thought that's a reallygood idea.
You know some things, um, yougo I'd probably do things
differently, but there's areally good idea.
And there's some things you goI'd probably do things
differently, but there's a lotof things in terms of the rigor
of the process, the inspection.
I think, like you know, I'dhave loved to have to have
probably applied some of thatand I think it would have been
positive in how we ran things.
But I guess a question for youis and you've adapted incredibly
(22:40):
well you know, being a keyperformer with a business for
five years before acquisition,that's often hard.
It's often difficult totransition when left foot, right
foot, you know what you'redoing into.
Hey, this is our new commands,this is how we operate and it
unsettles a lot of people.
There's a lot of unsettlednessand some people can cope with
change and some can't.
Sam Borg (23:00):
I, I'm kind of no frills in my approach and I
think I might have said this toyou throughout the acquisition
that I don't really listen tooutside noise and I'm here for a
very important mission to servemy partner base and the MSPs
that I've kind of grown reallyfond of and I really love our
community.
It was abundantly clear whenthe announcement was made that
(23:21):
they have a very similar or wehave a really similar goal to
live and breathe for MSP and theproblems that you know that
they live with, I suppose, andhow we can alleviate some of
that stress.
So it was less traumatic for me.
I think you know the feedbackof the wider community.
You know, naturally, wecompeted with them for years.
(23:42):
Right, you competed with Kaseya.
You know I've always looked atcompetition as worthy rivals and
that's something I got fromSimon Sinek.
Is that it's not?
You know, we want to competewith the best of the best and to
go head-to-head with a worthyrival.
You learn and you go fromstrength to strength.
So I think, um, definitely themerging of the two has made us
stronger and, uh, I'm still herebecause we're, you know, we're
(24:03):
serving the msp community in areally good way and, um, at
least even at an apac level, thethe merging of cultures was was
awesome, so we were quite luckyand, um, yeah, I think we're
kind of living and breathing totell the tale, and you know
we're in it and you know we makesome fuck-ups and we make some
mistakes, but we listen to them,we hear them head on and, um,
and we're quite obsessed withtrying to fix that for the
(24:24):
community too.
James Bergl (24:25):
Yeah, and how do you handle that?
And I think I love what you sayyou block out outside noise,
outside noise, even water coolerchat as well.
Yeah, that can be cancerouswithin an organization if you
get a couple of pockets ofpeople that spread
misinformation or justnegativity or toxicity.
I imagine that you'veexperienced part of that, like,
(24:49):
how do you have thoseconversations with those
individuals or how do you handlethat situation, because you, in
my opinion, you need to stumptoxicity out of an organization.
Sam Borg (24:57):
Yeah, 100%, and it's not even necessarily been my
experience at DataWalker say.
It was certainly something thatI've been exposed to, I mean in
my former life as well, butwhen there's toxicity in an
organisation, you're 100% rightyou need to squash it, and it's
a straightforward conversation.
The same way the Women'sImprovement Plan is.
It's what's your understandingof what's gone wrong?
(25:18):
Why has this gone wrong for you?
How can I course correct?
And you know, let you know whatthe truth of that is, and you
know if it continues, then it'sit's not good for either of us.
James Bergl (25:34):
So, you know, there's the door.
Yeah, no, I, I completely agree.
Um, I, I think that and I had asaying um, the tribe is spoken.
Yeah, you know, if, if there'sthere's toxicity within a
business, if there's someonethat is just going against the
grain, like, it's important thatthat is eliminated.
And there's a great book byJames Kerr on the New Zealand
All Blacks.
Oh yeah, what's it called?
Sam Borg (25:54):
I don't know.
I think I know it, though I'veheard of it.
James Bergl (25:57):
Yeah, it'll come to me, but they talk about a lot
of like core business principlesand how to really talk about a
lot of like core businessprinciples and how to really and
it's how do the All Backsachieve that greatness in the
field of rugby?
And it's very much about theteam.
No one is bigger than the teamis a philosophy as well.
So just because someone's agreat rep, it does not mean
they're great for your business.
Sam Borg (26:22):
Yeah, look, I actually think that that's super
important.
And even kind of going back towhat makes a great rep doesn't
necessarily make a good leaderand it doesn't necessarily mean
that they're right for yourorganization.
And you know, if I even reflecton some of the learnings or the
challenges, it kind of goesback to those people that are
raw and hungry and you knowthey're really open-minded and
you can kind of coach anddevelop them and they're kind of
on the bus, I suppose.
(26:43):
So, yeah, it has a lot ofimpact, I suppose.
James Bergl (26:49):
Hybrid working work from home, work from office,
hybrid working.
Kaseya, have got a reasonablystraightforward line, from what
I understand, that we expect youto be in the office.
Yeah, Talk to me a little bitabout about that.
Sam Borg (27:04):
I love it.
I love it.
It.
We're in a high performance,sales driven organization.
Uh, collaboration is key.
You know we're in the officefive days a week, whiteboards
everywhere, boardrooms, um,towards the end of the quarter,
we had two days sorry, two weeksof accountability and
whiteboards.
You, we used to be bored oftruth with um, with you back in
the day, um, so it's very muchsomething which we consistently
(27:24):
do and, um, everyone's numbersare there to see and if we need
anyone, they're just.
They're just down the corner.
So, um, I love it.
It did take an adjustment and Ithought, oh, why people doing
this?
Uh, I honestly wouldn't have itany other way now.
But, um, yeah, each to theirown, I think yeah no, I.
James Bergl (27:40):
I admire Fred for doing it.
You know, I think Elon Muskmade the headline saying that he
wanted everyone within Twitteror X to go back to the office.
D yeah, people threw their toysout of the pram and they quit
and they left.
It happened at Kaseya.
I admire it because it's takinga strong stance to say this is
what we believe is the right.
(28:00):
It's against people that didn'twant to do that, but I think it
is for the best.
And you know what?
Before COVID, that's what weused to do.
That's been normal.
Sam Borg (28:10):
There was no concept.
There was no concept of thishybrid thing.
Yeah, exactly.
And particularly if they'reyoung and they're new, they have
nothing but questions, and if Ihave to bottle them up and save
that for the end of the day,that you know you've lost
interest.
James Bergl (28:26):
basically, so just um, just closing, I wanted to
touch a little bit on, you know,the big announcement that
Kaseya made.
So there was the there was thishuge announcement, loads and
loads of hype about, uh, kaseyatransforming the way in which
MSPs are able to do business.
Talk to me a little bit aboutwhat that was, was and what the
response has been like in thepartner base and what the impact
has been for you guys at Kaseya.
Sam Borg (28:48):
Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up.
Actually, I live and breathethis stuff.
You know us as a company.
There's a couple of challengesthat we set out to solve and
Kaseya 365 is kind of theembodiment of us alleviating all
those challenges.
So, you know, we think aboutthe MSPs having so many vendors
that they work with consistently, and what Crystalize, or what
Kaseya 365 has done is hasenabled us to offer a single
(29:10):
subscription or SKU that allowMSPs to manage, secure, backup
and automate their end usersenvironment for quite a you know
, an attractive cost.
So, changing the unit economicsof the industry so that an MSP
or an end user doesn't have tochoose about whether they have
complete security, an MSP isable to offer something at a
really quite attractive price.
And what does it mean for themto increase their profitability
(29:33):
by 40% per endpoint that theymanage.
So it's been exciting, it's.
You know our partners havethought this.
You know they can start totransform and revolutionize
their business because, you know, in a market that is becoming
quite commoditized in the wayyou know, backups, commoditized
endpoint security, antivirus youknow they need to workflow
integrate, they need to savetechnician time, they need to be
(29:55):
priced right so that an MSP canactually feel profit, so it's
been nothing but good news, butyeah.
James Bergl (30:01):
I have to say I did speak to a partner that's
become a friend and he said he'sjust moved to autotask and
kaseya recently and he saidthrough that process he was able
to save five thousand dollars amonth on his monthly bill.
So, um so he was absolutelydelighted and says it's amazing.
And there's the.
The innovation has been, um,yeah, significant, um, so no,
it's, it's great to see that Istill still be bleep blue.
(30:22):
Um yeah, I'd love to see thatthe business continue to
flourish and personally, I'veloved watching your progression
and excited to see what you donext yeah, thanks you too.
Sam Borg (30:32):
Thank you so much for.
James Bergl (30:33):
Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you on the podcast.
It's been a great chat.
Really enjoyed it.
If anyone um listening wants toconnect with you, ask you any
questions or learn anythingabout Kaseya, how can they
connect with you?
Sam Borg (30:45):
yeah, yeah, I'm Samantha Ball.
You can add me on LinkedIn.
I won't give you my my mobilenumber, but you're very welcome
to connect with me on there andI'll direct you to the right
area.
You can text me.
James Bergl (30:56):
Very, very wise.
Sam Borg (30:57):
Very wise, exactly.
Thanks so much.
It's not a job for the faint-hearted, and I don't
expect it to be.
He said Sammy, I just don'tknow if you're going to make it.
James Bergl (00:08):
Were you working nine to five?
Oh fuck, no.
Sam Borg (00:12):
No, no, no, no.
I would love to even do thatnow, to be perfectly honest, but
I think good leaders are hardworkers and they don't watch the
clock.
James Bergl (00:20):
From selling denim to recruiting to running a
65-person software sales team.
I had the chance to sit downwith Samantha Borg today.
With Kaseya, we went into herframework for success, her daily
routine and her philosophy forhow she successfully builds
high-performing sales teams.
Enjoy the show, sam.
(00:40):
Incredibly excited to have youon the show today.
Battle scars of a sales leader.
This is a podcast that we'vethought about for a while.
My experience as a sales leaderis that when you look at brands
, organization, vendors,individual sales leaders, on the
surface they're a little bitlike ducks.
They're often very calm,collected, they're beautiful,
but underneath those legs aregoing crazy and those legs have
(01:03):
often got a lot of scars withthem.
So the fact that you and I haveworked together I know some of
those scars that we both facedover the years together.
But I would love to exploresome more of those scars, some
of the lessons that you'velearned what it was like to move
from non-sales sorry, non-techsales into tech.
Sales kind of a little bitlater on in your career to what
a lot of people do.
Sales kind of a little bitlater on in your career to what
(01:25):
a lot of people do, and whatyour career trajectory has has
been like.
So, for those that don't knowme, don't know you, sam, please
give us a quick introductionyeah, cool.
Sam Borg (01:31):
So samantha borg, uh, senior director of sales for
kaseya for australia and newzealand, um yeah, so I've been
been in the company for forseven years now.
I'm actually spent about fiveof those years over in new
zealand, uh, leading thego-to-market team there and
growing out the Kiwi operation.
And then came back about a yearand a half ago to run Australia
and New Zealand have about 65or indirect reports at the
(01:52):
moment with seven sales managers.
So it's been crazy kind ofcontinuing to grow and scale at
the velocity that we've had andI sometimes pinch myself saying
why me?
So, yeah, plenty of battlescars to share.
James Bergl (02:05):
You've earned the right to be that senior director
and you've grown and you'veprogressed Like you've
absolutely earned it and I was.
You know I look at with prideand excitement to watch what
you've achieved, like I'm reallyreally proud of what you've
done.
If we go back to a little bitof the earlier side of your
career actually I want to goback to before you even got into
(02:25):
recruitment like you jumpedinto recruitment.
You were in recruitment for anumber of years.
Like what drove you to jumpinto recruitment in the first
place.
Sam Borg (02:32):
It's such an interesting question.
I did.
I think I'd gotten torecruitment when I was about 23
and spent five years there, andprior to that I worked in retail
for eight years and alwaysthought that I would sell denim
for the rest of my life, justloved it.
I've always been quite apassionate person, like whatever
I did.
I worked at the cinema and inhospitality, I suppose, and I
went to, I went to retail.
(02:53):
I was working two, three jobs,going through school as well.
I've always just been reallydriven.
I forgot your question, butthat's okay.
Do you want to tell me?
James Bergl (03:01):
Yeah, no, the question is you know what, what,
where?
How did you go from you knowselling denim into recruitment?
And I then want to say, likewhat was that transition going
from you know five years ofplacing salespeople into vendors
to actually going?
I want to try this myself aswell.
Sam Borg (03:17):
Yeah, it's, it's.
It's a really good question.
I think I've always had anatural curiosity for people and
for problem solving.
I actually did a gender studiesand cultural studies degree and
I really learnt kind of theinner workings of the mind and
people and why they do what theydo, and so I think I was drawn
to recruitment because it kindof brings people and a whole lot
of those things together, Isuppose.
(03:37):
And then you know, I spent fiveyears doing that and I loved it
.
A lot of battle scars, evenfrom, you know, my old sales
director and my old generalmanager.
We used to spend a lot of timecrying and fighting and yelling
and actually just blood, sweatand tears trying to get deals
across the line, which I willnever forget.
But I feel like I hit a bit ofa glass ceiling in that role and
it was a 30-man company.
(03:59):
I just looked at my careerwhat's next?
And I really, I looked to techand thought, hey, fast paced,
really innovative and a goodopportunity for me to cut my
teeth and to somewhere to seemyself long-term.
So that was what inspired me tomove to tech.
I think I used to recruit forAlex, the old HR director, so he
put me in touch and then Ithink we also knew what's his
name the Autotask guy.
James Bergl (04:20):
Adam Ross.
Sam Borg (04:25):
Adam Ross sorry, adam ross, adam ross sorry.
We also had a mutual connectionin him, so uh naturally took a
look at data.
I did about 14 or so interviewsand uh fell in love with the
place and, yeah, obviously to beunder your leadership was um,
which was incredible.
James Bergl (04:33):
So well, I know, I definitely remember the first
time that I met you.
I was just like before we'deven been through many
interviews.
It's just like we need to getsam on board.
I just I loved your energy, umthat you brought.
I love the love, the drive, theabsolute desire to win, and
you've still got that inabundance today, which is
absolutely why you are where youare.
It's interesting, we swappedroles.
Sam Borg (04:54):
We have.
James Bergl (04:56):
What's interesting is some of the organizations
we're working with today.
They specifically say I like tohave people that have been in
recruiting.
I like recruiters and Iremember thinking this as well
when I was a hiring manager,because people often don't like
recruiters and you get a lot ofrejection, a lot of nose, a lot
of nose and a lot of doorsslammed on you and a lot of
(05:16):
people that just don't want todeal with you.
And I think if you can get yourskin that tough, then that sets
you up for a really strongcareer in SaaS sales.
Sam Borg (05:24):
Yeah, 100%.
James Bergl (05:25):
So can you remember ?
You know your first yearworking in Datto and what that
was like, and you know Iremember some of the
conversations that we had andI'd love to get your opinion.
There was a learning curve.
You never thought you had adoubt in getting over it, but
what was that like for you to gothrough that process?
Sam Borg (05:43):
I think about this a lot.
I I share this war story with,with a lot of my reps that, uh,
I remember just going again fuck, have I done?
I really don't understand this.
And I was in the trenches forthe first three months and I
even remember my old boss, adam.
He said Sammy, I just don'tknow if you're gonna make it.
I'm like you're probably right,brother, I don't.
I just don't know if you'regoing to make it and I'm like
(06:04):
you're probably right, brother,I don't really know what I'm
doing.
But I persisted and the onething I had was my hunger and my
aptitude to have a call and askquestions.
And you know, I rememberputting hours into figuring out
what these products were andwhere they fit into the
ecosystem.
But one thing that I just madesure I went back to was my roots
and understanding sales processsetting up appointments, asking
(06:25):
the right questions, reallygetting to understand the
partners and what their needswere.
And then I just jottedeverything down and I had
billions of questions and so,yeah, I think it was really
tough and I don't think that itclicked for me, probably until
month four or five, and I reallycame into my strides.
James Bergl (06:42):
In those first four to six months when you're going
, I don't know if I'm going tomake it.
I always knew you were going tomake it, but I can, I'm going
to have words with Adam.
How dare he speak to you likethat.
But what are you?
What are you doing Like?
What sort of activity are youdoing Like?
What are you telling yourselfto persevere and break through
that barrier of of just like?
I'm in deep here and I don'tknow what I'm doing?
Sam Borg (07:04):
Honestly, I reckon I'm a bit of a sucker for
punishment.
It's, it's.
I'm.
I'm fine with the, with thediscomfort and being in the
trenches and just figuring itout.
But yeah, I think it's justgoing back to basics.
Is you will get there, you'recompetent, you're capable.
Ask the right questions andyou'll figure it out.
So I don't think there's muchmore to it than literally
(07:25):
pushing through, are you?
working nine to five oh fuck, no, no, no, no, no.
Um, I would love to even dothat now, to be perfectly honest
, but I, you know, I think goodleaders are hard workers and
they don't watch the clock.
Um, but it is blood, sweat andtears.
James Bergl (07:40):
It's early starts and it's late nights it's
working over the weekends andyeah, because and it's the
reason I ask that because youknow we're in this funny um
phase.
We've gone through COVID, we'regoing through this concept of
hybrid and it's all about likelooking after the employees and
having um, having uh, flexiblework and um.
There's this at times, thiswoke community where you know we
have to look after our staff,otherwise that they they may
(08:02):
report us or you know somethinglike that.
But reality is, the reality isthere is a direct correlation
between work in and output aswell, and you've just absolutely
proven that.
It wasn't the concept of a nineto five, wasn't even your
vocabulary.
Sam Borg (08:18):
No, yeah, and it's something that I continue to
reflect on right as we grow andhire and scale businesses sorry,
scale reps in our business ishow do you find somebody that's
inherently successful, kind ofmotivated, to put in those extra
yards without asking for it?
It's you know, if your bosssays jump, you say, well, how
high and how many times do youwant me to jump, and what is it
(08:38):
that I need to do to provemyself?
There's no sense of entitlementand that's very much something
you know when you know youhaven't quite asked the question
yet, but from a hiringperspective is like you
certainly want to try to findthose people that are okay with
putting in those hard yards andnot complain about it, and they
understand that hard work iswhat it takes to get to the top.
So, um, people that have to getup early and jump in the
(09:00):
swimming pool at four in themorning, um, that's what we look
for in terms of that grit,because it's bloody hard to find
.
James Bergl (09:06):
Yeah, it's.
It's interesting, um, cause I'mnow going through this phase of
of startup business here inAustralia again and I'm I'm
thoroughly enjoying it.
I have terrible days, but Ihave really good days as well,
and I've actually had to, likeproactively implement new things
in my life Not necessarily newthings, but just bring in the
(09:26):
concept of exercise and trainingand eating healthy and not
drinking too much and sharpeningmy blade now that I'm frontline
as opposed to in leadership,and what I've noticed is that
with sports and with enduranceor with anything really where
you have to push throughboundaries, like one is you're
training your muscle, thatresilience and how to get
(09:46):
through that, but two, you'realso demonstrating that you can
survive the tough times as well.
Sam Borg (09:53):
I often ask that question of how do you sharpen
the saw and how do you continueto develop your skill set, both
mentally and kind of physically.
Because I am naturally drawn to, and I think, people that have
that grit put in the hard work,they listen to self-development
books, they go to the gym,they've got a routine and they
just have structure in theirlife and the way that they go
(10:13):
about their day and they takepride in that.
So, um, it's not necessarilyeven a trait, because I think
resilience, determination andall of that is kind of table
stake stuff for a salesperson.
How do you structure yourselffor success and how do you?
Do you want to be better, wheredo you see yourself and what
steps are you taking to toactually get there?
James Bergl (10:30):
no, I love that, but the next step in your career
is then going into peopleleadership.
Sam Borg (10:36):
Yeah.
James Bergl (10:37):
And that is another whole thing.
Again talk to me a little bitabout what that transition was
like.
I mean, initially, I'mimagining it started off with a
small team and now you've got 65in the rest of the course.
Sam Borg (10:48):
That's bloody crazy.
James Bergl (10:50):
What was that?
That that?
Um, if you could reflect onlike initially, when you were
first a sales manager, like whatwas that like?
Sam Borg (10:57):
yeah, uh, look, I think the first thing you need
to overcome in transitioningtransitioning from an individual
contributor to, uh, amanagement type role is, you
know, the fact that the eitherlimelight's no longer going to
be on you and your performanceand your excellence.
I actually remember one of mypartners in new zealand.
I've had a really goodrelationship with him.
He's like one of the challengesyou're going to have to think
(11:18):
about as you're a leader is thatthey get the limelight.
And I kind of thought, goinginto that, oh, that's an
interesting thing.
I wonder how I'm going to gowith that.
Anyway, so that was the firsthurdle to overcome and going oh
shit, I've actually got to carefor other people.
It was interesting.
I started with quite a smallteam in New Zealand.
I had a couple of repsunderneath me, but I was still
kind of contributing to thebusiness and had my own quota
(11:39):
and then I took on the teamquota.
Yeah, it kind of feels likeit's gone super quickly and it
feels like six months basically,but I started with about three.
And then when the Dattoacquisition, or the Xeia
acquisition of Datto happened, Iwas in New Zealand it was
actually in Australia at thetime when it was announced and
(12:00):
the SVP was there and he saidyou know what's your appetite?
To come over to Australia andmaybe run the go-to-market team
for us.
And I said, oh God, my rootsare here in New Zealand.
I've built such a greatbusiness.
Love everyone dearly.
I don't know again impostersyndrome.
I don't know again impostersyndrome.
I don't know if I can do it.
Why are you looking at me?
I'm just running little old NewZealand kind of thing.
And then over the course ofreally the last year and a half,
(12:22):
we added about I think we had30 last year and then the most
recent count as of last quarterwas 60 odd reps.
So it feels like it's gonesuper fast and it's now no
longer something that concernsme that it's not me at the top
and that that thrill you getfrom seeing them succeed is far
outweighs any any kind of joythat you get on on an individual
(12:43):
or a personal note can youreflect on any stories in that
first yeah, six months whenyou're managing people, you're
like I don't know what to do inthis situation.
Oh, I'm trying to think of someexamples.
I think you know I'm a bit of asoftie.
I'm a bit of a softie at heart,I'm quite emotional and you
(13:03):
know, it's really finding thatbalance of empathy versus
assertiveness and providingdirection and what to actually
do in the right context.
I suppose I'm trying to thinkof an example.
James Bergl (13:17):
Let me give you a topic performance management.
Okay, yep.
So performance management issomething that I struggled with
when I became a people leader,probably 10, 11 years ago, and I
remember having to have aconversation about someone's
underperformance and they werenot going to be with the
business too much longer and Ididn't sleep the night before.
(13:37):
I tossed and turned, Iliterally could not sleep
because I was just petrified ofhaving this conversation.
It was horrible.
It's still the worst part ofthe job, but that was something
that I personally reallystruggled with, and I mean, I
don't know what your situationis with regards to that, but how
do you handle underperformers?
Because you must have had some.
Sam Borg (13:57):
It's really tough, right, it's something that we've
had to.
There's been a couple of toughconversations we've had over the
years.
I think it starts withunderstanding its expectation
setting on, making sure thatthey understand what the role is
and what's expected, and Ithink it's always then starting
with the opportunity to let themknow what's going wrong.
(14:19):
And I think, when that failsand you kind of go into that
performance improvement planterritory, what I've learned?
It's not easy, because I'mnaturally empathetic as well and
I do see the best in people.
I think it's both a weakness aswell as a strength, but it's
taking a step back to say, well,you know, I've got a number to
hit, I've got millions to bringin per quarter, and naturally so
(14:40):
does the sales manager and sodoes that individual rep, and if
they're not paying for theirseat effectively, we really need
to start to think about, well,what's going wrong and why.
So then we go into that kind ofstructured performance
improvement plan territory wherewe really do need to be black
and white and let them knowwhat's at stake if they don't
deliver.
So I suppose a couple oflearnings in removing the
(15:03):
emotion or the personal side andreally thinking around what's
best for the business and what'sbest for me in terms of my
success and the sales manager'ssuccess, that you know if it's
not quite right then we do needto call it, and I've had tough
conversations where we've had tolet somebody go and they got
teary and then you know, tryingto hold back those tears as well
.
You want to show the empathythat you care for them, but it's
(15:23):
probably not the right job.
So if anyone's got any tips forhow to do it without it
impacting you, we'd love to hearit.
But I reckon it's one of thetoughest parts of the job.
James Bergl (15:39):
No, I think that the way you described that is, I
don't think there's a right orthere's probably some wrong ways
to do it, but I think that youknow, you're certainly certainly
directionally similar to thesort of conversations that I
would have with people.
But I want to shift gears a bitinto what I would would
describe as as the leadershipaspect.
And you know, in in softwaresales and most companies, but in
(16:01):
particular us vendors that weboth had experience with is is,
they can be, um, you know,relatively full-on let's call it
full-on with their expectations.
They've got big expectations.
They're often v VC backed,they're driving the business
with a level of aggression andexpectation on numbers and that
filters down.
(16:21):
It's heavy at the top and itgets lighter towards the bottom.
But there's going to be timeswhere you miss the number number
to hit whether it's macro ormicro reasons in your, in your
control, out of your control,you, you're steering a ship with
65 reps that are all fightingfor the same goal of success.
How have you navigated?
(16:42):
Can you think of a time wherewhere you've been behind that
number?
And how have you navigated andpulled the entire team together
and rallied the troops andactually changed the direction
from being deflated to actuallya turnaround and a success story
.
Sam Borg (16:57):
Yeah, and you're absolutely right.
I mean, if you can't handle theheat in sales, it's probably
not the right industry to be in,particularly in a SaaS-based
business.
The targets do continue to growand that pressure only gets
more and more every quarter, andso there's a definite
acknowledgement there.
There's certainly been quarterswhere we've been close to
(17:17):
missing and all we've missed,and certainly as you get larger,
the responsibility becomes moreand more.
The risk of that also isincreased, right, because
there's more people under thefold and you take more risks on
people as you grow and scale thebusiness too.
So, yeah, I mean there was atime quite recently where we
missed.
That's on you, and so it mightbe at the rep level.
(17:42):
That doesn't quite get to theircommit, but that times 10 and
then a sales manager rolls upthe wrong forecast.
That's ultimately on me andit's my responsibility to course
correct.
And so it's just going back tothe basic making sure that at
every deal we understand everysingle step.
To close why won't it come in?
Why will it come in?
Are we using Bant or are weusing Medic or MedPick, or
(18:03):
what's the nature of that salescycle?
Do we understand the path topurchase for that specific
solution and where can I plugthe gaps?
Because it's not often, youknow, it's not out of the blue,
right, and could we haveactually had three or four eyes
on that problem to be able toprevent it sooner?
So it's again, I don't thinkit's, it's not magic wand type
(18:23):
stuff.
It's going back to thefundamentals of what are we
calling, why was it called, whydidn't it come in?
And then what can we do tocourse correct and move forward.
So for us what's what's reallyimportant is having a regular
cadence of forecasting, both atthe sales manager level as well
as the individual one-on-one repto manager level.
So they'll run it as a podweekly and just drive that
accountability piece for whatthey say they're going to do,
(18:44):
and then the manager to repone-on-one.
We call it a PBR or kind of aTRC process and we run through
pipeline kind of cleansing andmake sure that all the notes are
there and if we don't do thatsomething gets missed, right.
And you know, when we'rerunning a business at scale and
the expectations are so high, ithappens.
And I suppose some of thelearnings that I've had and I
(19:05):
recently inherited two moresales managers and about 16 new
sales reps is.
You know it takes time to buildthat trust in understanding
what your sales manager'scalling.
You've not worked with them fora while, so you expect that the
number they give to you is isis the number and you know I've.
yeah, I really need to stripthat back.
James Bergl (19:23):
And how do you build trust with your leadership
team to ensure that that whatthey're calling is correct and
that you guys are completelyinter interlinked with
expectations?
Sam Borg (19:36):
So you know trust is built day by day.
It's definitely something thathappens over time.
I think trust for me has alwaysbeen being able to it's
accountability.
It's doing what you say you'regoing to do and I think for me
it's leading from the front, isputting myself in their shoes
and being on the front line withthem saying well, would I have
called that and what are thequestions that I might ask in
this process to help validatewhether it will or won't come in
?
I think it's.
You know, it's really commonthings like it.
(19:58):
I mean really table stakesstuff of doing as you say you're
going to do, making sure youadvocate for them and have their
back, and they might make a badchoice, but at the end of the
day you've backed them and ifthey've made a bad choice, let's
work through it and let'sfigure out how not to make that
bad choice again.
So everyone builds trustslightly.
You know you earn my trust, Iearn yours, and then we figure
(20:23):
out how to work togetherdynamically.
James Bergl (20:24):
Yeah, amazing.
You've talked about what Iwould describe with how you
operate in the month, with a lotof rigor in terms of process,
methodology, inspection ofpipeline and cross-references,
etc.
What does a typical day, ifthat's such a thing, look like
(20:45):
for you?
Sam Borg (20:46):
One of the misconceptions you'll have as
you get into sales leadership isthat you've got more time and
in fact I need to schedulebathroom breaks in my calendar
to ensure that people don't bookover so I'm not back-to-back.
A typical day is pretty busy,so there's a lot of rep and
partner calls where we take ourpartners through our vision and
what we're working on and someof the problems we're solving um
(21:06):
anywhere from.
You know a one-on-one to mysales management team.
Maybe it's a senior leadershipuh roundup as well.
Um planning.
We do kind of project kickoffcalls, um, a lot of uh, a lot of
quote approvals, deal strategy.
It's, it's.
It's a busy, it's a really busyday.
I typically start from apersonal perspective working out
(21:27):
.
I'm up at 6am, I work out everyday.
I'm in the office fairly earlyand I'm in back to back to backs
and then we work and we hustleand we rinse and repeat.
It's not a job for the fainthearted and I don't expect it to
be so.
I wouldn't be where I am if Ididn't work hard.
I don't expect it to be so.
I wouldn't be where I am if Ididn't work hard.
Some days I wish that I had abit more breathing space to have
(21:48):
more of a strategic lens, butit's such a variety.
And yeah, I love it but I'mgoing to be a bit mad.
James Bergl (21:55):
Yeah, it's fascinating because, you know,
I've watched and I've observedthe business go from strength to
strength after the Kaseyaacquisition and I'd before um,
that happened with with noknowledge whatsoever, but
culturally there was a slightdifference in the um, in how the
business is operated.
And yeah, I've learned stuff inwatching you, in watching derma
, in terms of of how um thebusiness would get run and and
(22:19):
I've I thought that's a reallygood idea.
You know some things, um, yougo I'd probably do things
differently, but there's areally good idea.
And there's some things you goI'd probably do things
differently, but there's a lotof things in terms of the rigor
of the process, the inspection.
I think, like you know, I'dhave loved to have to have
probably applied some of thatand I think it would have been
positive in how we ran things.
But I guess a question for youis and you've adapted incredibly
(22:40):
well you know, being a keyperformer with a business for
five years before acquisition,that's often hard.
It's often difficult totransition when left foot, right
foot, you know what you'redoing into.
Hey, this is our new commands,this is how we operate and it
unsettles a lot of people.
There's a lot of unsettlednessand some people can cope with
change and some can't.
Sam Borg (23:00):
I, I'm kind of no frills in my approach and I
think I might have said this toyou throughout the acquisition
that I don't really listen tooutside noise and I'm here for a
very important mission to servemy partner base and the MSPs
that I've kind of grown reallyfond of and I really love our
community.
It was abundantly clear whenthe announcement was made that
(23:21):
they have a very similar or wehave a really similar goal to
live and breathe for MSP and theproblems that you know that
they live with, I suppose, andhow we can alleviate some of
that stress.
So it was less traumatic for me.
I think you know the feedbackof the wider community.
You know, naturally, wecompeted with them for years.
(23:42):
Right, you competed with Kaseya.
You know I've always looked atcompetition as worthy rivals and
that's something I got fromSimon Sinek.
Is that it's not?
You know, we want to competewith the best of the best and to
go head-to-head with a worthyrival.
You learn and you go fromstrength to strength.
So I think, um, definitely themerging of the two has made us
stronger and, uh, I'm still herebecause we're, you know, we're
(24:03):
serving the msp community in areally good way and, um, at
least even at an apac level, thethe merging of cultures was was
awesome, so we were quite luckyand, um, yeah, I think we're
kind of living and breathing totell the tale, and you know
we're in it and you know we makesome fuck-ups and we make some
mistakes, but we listen to them,we hear them head on and, um,
and we're quite obsessed withtrying to fix that for the
(24:24):
community too.
James Bergl (24:25):
Yeah, and how do you handle that?
And I think I love what you sayyou block out outside noise,
outside noise, even water coolerchat as well.
Yeah, that can be cancerouswithin an organization if you
get a couple of pockets ofpeople that spread
misinformation or justnegativity or toxicity.
I imagine that you'veexperienced part of that, like,
(24:49):
how do you have thoseconversations with those
individuals or how do you handlethat situation, because you, in
my opinion, you need to stumptoxicity out of an organization.
Sam Borg (24:57):
Yeah, 100%, and it's not even necessarily been my
experience at DataWalker say.
It was certainly something thatI've been exposed to, I mean in
my former life as well, butwhen there's toxicity in an
organisation, you're 100% rightyou need to squash it, and it's
a straightforward conversation.
The same way the Women'sImprovement Plan is.
It's what's your understandingof what's gone wrong?
(25:18):
Why has this gone wrong for you?
How can I course correct?
And you know, let you know whatthe truth of that is, and you
know if it continues, then it'sit's not good for either of us.
James Bergl (25:34):
So, you know, there's the door.
Yeah, no, I, I completely agree.
Um, I, I think that and I had asaying um, the tribe is spoken.
Yeah, you know, if, if there'sthere's toxicity within a
business, if there's someonethat is just going against the
grain, like, it's important thatthat is eliminated.
And there's a great book byJames Kerr on the New Zealand
All Blacks.
Oh yeah, what's it called?
Sam Borg (25:54):
I don't know.
I think I know it, though I'veheard of it.
James Bergl (25:57):
Yeah, it'll come to me, but they talk about a lot
of like core business principlesand how to really talk about a
lot of like core businessprinciples and how to really and
it's how do the All Backsachieve that greatness in the
field of rugby?
And it's very much about theteam.
No one is bigger than the teamis a philosophy as well.
So just because someone's agreat rep, it does not mean
they're great for your business.
Sam Borg (26:22):
Yeah, look, I actually think that that's super
important.
And even kind of going back towhat makes a great rep doesn't
necessarily make a good leaderand it doesn't necessarily mean
that they're right for yourorganization.
And you know, if I even reflecton some of the learnings or the
challenges, it kind of goesback to those people that are
raw and hungry and you knowthey're really open-minded and
you can kind of coach anddevelop them and they're kind of
on the bus, I suppose.
(26:43):
So, yeah, it has a lot ofimpact, I suppose.
James Bergl (26:49):
Hybrid working work from home, work from office,
hybrid working.
Kaseya, have got a reasonablystraightforward line, from what
I understand, that we expect youto be in the office.
Yeah, Talk to me a little bitabout about that.
Sam Borg (27:04):
I love it.
I love it.
It.
We're in a high performance,sales driven organization.
Uh, collaboration is key.
You know we're in the officefive days a week, whiteboards
everywhere, boardrooms, um,towards the end of the quarter,
we had two days sorry, two weeksof accountability and
whiteboards.
You, we used to be bored oftruth with um, with you back in
the day, um, so it's very muchsomething which we consistently
(27:24):
do and, um, everyone's numbersare there to see and if we need
anyone, they're just.
They're just down the corner.
So, um, I love it.
It did take an adjustment and Ithought, oh, why people doing
this?
Uh, I honestly wouldn't have itany other way now.
But, um, yeah, each to theirown, I think yeah no, I.
James Bergl (27:40):
I admire Fred for doing it.
You know, I think Elon Muskmade the headline saying that he
wanted everyone within Twitteror X to go back to the office.
D yeah, people threw their toysout of the pram and they quit
and they left.
It happened at Kaseya.
I admire it because it's takinga strong stance to say this is
what we believe is the right.
(28:00):
It's against people that didn'twant to do that, but I think it
is for the best.
And you know what?
Before COVID, that's what weused to do.
That's been normal.
Sam Borg (28:10):
There was no concept.
There was no concept of thishybrid thing.
Yeah, exactly.
And particularly if they'reyoung and they're new, they have
nothing but questions, and if Ihave to bottle them up and save
that for the end of the day,that you know you've lost
interest.
James Bergl (28:26):
basically, so just um, just closing, I wanted to
touch a little bit on, you know,the big announcement that
Kaseya made.
So there was the there was thishuge announcement, loads and
loads of hype about, uh, kaseyatransforming the way in which
MSPs are able to do business.
Talk to me a little bit aboutwhat that was, was and what the
response has been like in thepartner base and what the impact
has been for you guys at Kaseya.
Sam Borg (28:48):
Yeah, I appreciate you bringing that up.
Actually, I live and breathethis stuff.
You know us as a company.
There's a couple of challengesthat we set out to solve and
Kaseya 365 is kind of theembodiment of us alleviating all
those challenges.
So, you know, we think aboutthe MSPs having so many vendors
that they work with consistently, and what Crystalize, or what
Kaseya 365 has done is hasenabled us to offer a single
(29:10):
subscription or SKU that allowMSPs to manage, secure, backup
and automate their end usersenvironment for quite a you know
, an attractive cost.
So, changing the unit economicsof the industry so that an MSP
or an end user doesn't have tochoose about whether they have
complete security, an MSP isable to offer something at a
really quite attractive price.
And what does it mean for themto increase their profitability
(29:33):
by 40% per endpoint that theymanage.
So it's been exciting, it's.
You know our partners havethought this.
You know they can start totransform and revolutionize
their business because, you know, in a market that is becoming
quite commoditized in the wayyou know, backups, commoditized
endpoint security, antivirus youknow they need to workflow
integrate, they need to savetechnician time, they need to be
(29:55):
priced right so that an MSP canactually feel profit, so it's
been nothing but good news, butyeah.
James Bergl (30:01):
I have to say I did speak to a partner that's
become a friend and he said he'sjust moved to autotask and
kaseya recently and he saidthrough that process he was able
to save five thousand dollars amonth on his monthly bill.
So, um so he was absolutelydelighted and says it's amazing.
And there's the.
The innovation has been, um,yeah, significant, um, so no,
it's, it's great to see that Istill still be bleep blue.
(30:22):
Um yeah, I'd love to see thatthe business continue to
flourish and personally, I'veloved watching your progression
and excited to see what you donext yeah, thanks you too.
Sam Borg (30:32):
Thank you so much for.
James Bergl (30:33):
Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you on the podcast.
It's been a great chat.
Really enjoyed it.
If anyone um listening wants toconnect with you, ask you any
questions or learn anythingabout Kaseya, how can they
connect with you?
Sam Borg (30:45):
yeah, yeah, I'm Samantha Ball.
You can add me on LinkedIn.
I won't give you my my mobilenumber, but you're very welcome
to connect with me on there andI'll direct you to the right
area.
You can text me.
James Bergl (30:56):
Very, very wise.
Sam Borg (30:57):
Very wise, exactly.
Thanks so much.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.