January 6, 2025 • 42 mins
A masterclass in personal growth and sales leadership!
Alex Haddon shares her extraordinary journey from equine sciences to leading APAC sales for a billion tech unicorn.
In this captivating episode, she reveals how her entrepreneurial spirit and adaptability propelled her through diverse industries to become a top performer in SaaS sales.
Learn how Alex leveraged her unique background to excel in the fast-paced world of tech startups.
#TechSales #CareerTransition #salesleadership
🔍 In this episode you'll learn:
🔥 Career Pivoting: How to leverage diverse experiences for success in tech sales
💪 Scaling Teams: Insights on building and managing high-performing sales teams
💡 Global Expansion: Strategies for successfully entering and dominating APAC markets
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I think it's important to think into the
future, being in a veryfast-scaling environment, even
hyper-growth.
From the day I joined, we were2x-ing our targets month on
month, quarter on quarter.
Alex Hadden, the APAC salesdirector for the billion-dollar
unicorn data snipper Somefeedback I kept giving to
leadership at the time was Ithink we should be focusing in,
(00:20):
like hyper-focus, into regionsso that you've got one person
who can really go to marketthere, make it successful, give
feedback on what we need to makethat region well more like,
successful as a customer, butbring more impact to them.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
so from both sides, really having a look at what you
have achieved in the last threeyears is nothing short of
sensational promoted reallyquickly to team lead sales
manager and then coming overfrom the netherlands to run apac
for billion dollar unicorn.
That is incredible.
Like those opportunities don'tcome around often and you got
not just your foot in the door,but you got your foot in the
(00:55):
door and you just accelerated.
What did they look like fromthe outside and what what made
you choose them yeah, goodquestion.
I must, I must think of Alex,thank you so much for joining us
on our podcast Battle Scars ofa Sales Leader.
I've been incredibly excited tohave you join this show in
particular and tell your storyIn a real nutshell.
(01:16):
I've become acquainted withData Snipper, where you're
currently the APAC salesdirector, as we've been working
relatively closely over the lastnine months or so.
But really having a look atwhat you have achieved in the
last three years is nothingshort of sensational Joining
with Data Snipper as an accountexecutive, being promoted really
quickly to team lead salesmanager and then coming over
(01:39):
from the Netherlands to run APACfor a billion dollar unicorn.
That is incredible.
So incredibly excited to drillinto some of the battle scars
that you may have earned alongthe way.
But we've had a conversationbefore and there's a lot more to
the story before Data Snippetsstarted, so I'd love to just
(02:00):
hand over to you and tell usyour story.
How did you get to where youare today, and go back as far as
you can.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, sure.
Well, first, thanks for havingme.
Great to be here.
It's a long story.
I'm a horse girl.
I grew up riding horses my wholelife, loved them, was very
passionate and, you know, got tothe end of high school, didn't
(02:29):
really know what to do andthought, you know, got to the
end of high school, didn'treally know what to do and
thought you know what?
I'm just going to go studyhorses.
I did a.
It's called Equine Sciences.
It's a BSc degree.
It's from a Technicon in SouthAfrica, but it really
specializes in horses, but moreso looking after horses.
And I had an amazing time atuniversity, finished that, you
know, and then thought I stilldon't really know what I'm going
to do with this degree.
You know, having horses is anexpensive hobby and I kind of
(02:52):
realized I'm going to have toneed a lot of money to keep my
hobby going.
So I think the thing that Ifell into was sales and it kind
of happened by accident.
My parents are veryentrepreneurial.
They've owned multiple types ofbusinesses, my grandparents as
well, and so growing up I wouldalways land up being at, you
know, my mom's business afterschool, on the weekends, helping
(03:13):
out.
Where I can, I would work inschool tuck shops selling candy
at the dance studios that wererelated to my mom and my sisters
.
I would also try and make someextra money and I thought you
know I can get into sales.
But in the horse industry, sostarted at they're called tack
shops, basically sell horseequipment, feed supplements,
nutrition, clothing for theriders, that type of thing and I
(03:36):
loved it and I thought tomyself I was this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
this is in South Africa, south Africa, yeah, In.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
South Africa.
That's where I was born.
I went to school and basicallystayed until about seven years
ago, but we'll get there.
I thought you know, this issomething that I would love to
do for myself.
I wanted to be independent.
I wanted to have my own company, my own business.
Learned a lot working for othersort of retail stores and other
tech shops, but I could do thismyself and I could do it a
little bit differently.
(04:02):
And I could do this myself andI could do it a little bit
differently.
And when I say differently, itwas more about taking it online.
In South Africa, the market isusually a few years behind the
rest of the world, and onlineshopping we're talking now 15,
16 years ago was a bit of a newidea.
The whole e-commerce trustingthat if you place an order
online, it's actually going toarrive at your front door.
There is a lot of steps inSouth Africa.
(04:28):
You've got to get through thepostal service, which is not
that reliable, maybe going witha private courier company there
weren't that many at the timeand I just I felt that that was
a niche or at least a gap in themarket that I could potentially
solve for.
So to try and condense thatjourney a little bit.
I came across another tech shopthat was in a startup phase.
It was really small.
It was run by a girl that I metin the industry and we kicked
it off quite well.
(04:48):
I came and worked for herinitially and through that
growth, eventually became abusiness partner with her.
We took that business onlineand made it hugely successful.
We also started importinginternational brands.
So I got a lot of experience inmore of the retail space but
really just being thatsalesperson being in front of
every horse person I knew,trying to be a trusted advisor
to them, like if their horse hadan issue, say a nutrition issue
(05:11):
, I would always have thesupplement to back it up and I
could post it to them if theywere not in Johannesburg, which
is where I'm originally from.
So I really took that companyregional out of Joburg we went
to Cape Town, bloemfontein, likeall the major states where
there were a lot of horses.
Eventually I stepped away frommy business partner and I opened
a side business, still inhorses, but I started designing
(05:33):
my own clothing, my own brand,and that was also doing
exceptionally well.
And then we decided toimmigrate, so moved to the
Netherlands, followed my husbandand I think I arrived in Europe
and I really didn't know what Iwanted to do, but I knew I was
a good salesperson, like that'sa skill that I could leverage
there to, at least, you know,keep progressing my career.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I just want to ask a question.
It sounds like you're veryentrepreneurial.
You set up a couple ofdifferent businesses in horses
to fashion what was theunderlying driver driver like?
What were you looking toachieve when you set each one of
those up?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I think for me, I just really wanted to be
independent at the time.
I wanted to be my own boss.
I wanted to, you know, controlmy own hours, make my own
decisions.
I just wanted to beself-sufficient as well.
Like I said at the start, Iknew I needed to sustain my
let's put it down to the hobbyat that point, when I was
younger, I wanted horses and Ineeded to be able to pay for
them, but I always just knewthat I could get further, foster
(06:31):
being that entrepreneurial likewe're using, that
entrepreneurial mindset andspirit.
That's really what drove methat independence, being
financially stable.
I think South Africa is a bitof a different environment.
If you can make it as anentrepreneur, you're more set up
for your future and your ownsuccess.
At least from my experience andleaning with my parents, I
think I learned a lot from themand they were also very
entrepreneurial.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, it's funny because I've spoken to a few
people.
I've looked at similarities inparents and the children.
In my time when I was a daddo,I noticed that some of the top
performers in my team actuallyhad really successful parents,
and a lot of them came from thetechnology industry as well.
Um, and there's, it does seemto be that correlation.
(07:14):
I don't know if it's nature ornurture, but being able to, um,
yeah, really be surrounded bypeople, that, that that you can
learn from and be inspired from.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I think that's absolutely right.
I remember countless eveningssitting with both my parents.
Just this is an issue I'mfacing.
I'm having an issue with mysupply chain, or I'm really
struggling to deal with the postoffice I think of a very
governmental sort of institutionin South Africa.
What can I do to solve thesechallenges?
I mean, I would land up in somesticky situations where my dad
(07:45):
would come with me in the carjust to help me resolve it,
because I kind of needed thatbackup and they would always let
me do it by myself.
But it was that supportstructure that was so beneficial
, to me at least, and I thinkthat's why I learned a lot from
them and almost tried to usethem as that reflection when I
was building my own sort ofcareer.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And how did you land in the Netherlands?
Yes, of all places.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So my now husband he was my boyfriend at the time is
still a chiropractor, but got anopportunity in the Netherlands
to work as a chiropractor and wehad a long conversation about
this, because it really meantpacking up everything and
leaving.
I think I had a little bit morestability in my own career at
that point.
He studied a lot longer than Idid and I think in those seven
(08:30):
years that I spent building mybusiness he was still completing
his chiropractic master's.
We really had to decide if thisis what we were going to do.
I think, being South African,only having a South African
passport, you know we don't haveto get into it.
But there's a lot of turmoil inSouth Africa and we really
wanted a bit of that exit plan.
We decided, okay, let's do it,but we have to do it properly.
(08:51):
So we decided to immigrate,which meant I had to consolidate
everything with my businesses.
So part of it I sold off, therest I kept, but sort of also
shelved for a little bit tothink what can I do in the
future with it.
But we really moved to theNetherlands.
So we immigrated, packed ourbags, I followed him and that's
what got us to the Netherlands,more specifically Nijmegen,
(09:13):
which is a town or city ratheron the border of Germany, so
it's a little bit more inland.
It's not that Amsterdam sort ofexpat bubble, the Randstad as
we call it, expat bubble, theRandstad as we call it.
So it was very much like theNetherlands.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
So you landed in the Netherlands, your boyfriend,
soon to be husband, isdelivering on everything he
studied for becoming achiropractor, and you go out to
market to find a job.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, it was a challenge.
I think this was pre-COVID, soremote online working wasn't
really a thing.
I said we landed in Nijmegen.
It was a challenge.
I think this was pre-COVID, soremote online working wasn't
really a thing.
I said we landed in Nijmegen.
It was a very Dutch city, so wehad a little bit of an
advantage.
We speak Afrikaans.
It's a very old dialect ofDutch, but I was by no means
fluent in Dutch, so finding workfor me was somewhat of a
(10:01):
challenge.
I picked up random jobs hereand there.
I actually landed up at abakery, had so much fun.
I think that's where I learnedDutch really quickest.
Literally selling cakes had agreat time, but I knew it wasn't
what I wanted in the long runbecause in the back of my mind I
wanted to be in tech.
You know I'm a millennial.
Most of my life I've grown upwith technology and technology
(10:23):
has evolved a lot with me.
I also introduced thattechnology element into my own
equestrian store in South Africaby getting it online really
like leveraging the e-commercespace to make it successful and
I knew that the tech industrywas a lot bigger than at least
what I knew of it.
I mean, I had no real idea ofwhat the tech industry was like
at all, but knew that it was aninterest of me.
(10:45):
But how do I get in?
I really wasn't sure what to do.
I had no network, noconnections, and at the time my
perspective was really that ofwell, you've never worked in
tech, you didn't study abusiness degree, you don't have
a BCom or anything like that,how are you going to do this?
But I kept thinking well, Iknow I'm a good salesperson.
I really am.
I can only speak for myselfbecause I haven't really been
(11:06):
employed by anyone other thanbeing an entrepreneur.
But I can speak to my successesand my results and I just put
myself out on the market.
So I started applying to everytech company that I could think
of, internationally, in Europe,in the Netherlands.
The issue for me in theNetherlands was the language.
Internationally, I think remoteworking wasn't yet really a
(11:27):
thing.
Everything was in office.
So we actually made a bigdecision to move to the Randstad
, which is the Amsterdam,utrecht, the Hague area.
It's more expat-friendly,there's more English.
Jared, my husband, decided thathe would change practices, so
he would move to a practice thatside as well.
So at that point he followed meand let me try and build out my
(11:48):
own dream and career there andthrough all the interviewing I
landed a job at Bookingcom.
So that was my initialintroduction into technology.
So I think for me it was mainlyjust the element of keep trying
, never stop.
Apply to as many places as youcan attend all those interviews.
Learn from every like likemessed up interview.
There's always learning fromthere to do better at the next
(12:11):
next one.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, I'm just picking up like this innate
drive that you've got within you, and also this um, at the same
time, this, this principle ofyou, create your own luck as
well.
Nothing is going to be handedto you.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
You really, you really need to put your best
foot forward and put yourselfout there to get there.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So, and what year are we in now?
This is.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Oh, this is 2018.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
This is 2018.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, late 2018, just going into 2019.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
2019.
So you were bookingcom for.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Very short time actually.
So bookingcom was a huge stepto us moving to the Randstad.
I actually got the job beforewe had moved.
We kind of played it by ear IfI got the job, we would move, if
I didn't get the job, we wouldstay in Nijmegen.
And I got a job at Bookingcom,so really exciting.
Okay, let's move.
(13:02):
Then came the hassle of findinga place to live.
That's a different story, but Ithis was about middle of the
year of the 2019 so got to thecompany first day on boarded,
love the company.
They've got an amazing culture.
They had a nice campus inAmsterdam.
You know, I for me, I'd neverworked in corporate.
(13:22):
It was very different for me tokind of fit into not being that.
I mean, I was always anentrepreneur.
I answered for my own faults, Iwould correct my own challenges
but also made my own decisions,whereas now you were part of a
much larger team and I mean ahuge team, this global company,
thousands of employees.
So it was a bit of anadjustment for me, but I was
just really grateful for theopportunity.
(13:43):
I was actually in the customerservices department Massive
change of pace.
It was intense.
You're answering the phones allthe time helping clients, both
guests but also on the hotelside of things.
But for me it wasn't reallywhat I was looking for in terms
of a career.
So my stint at bookingcom wasshort.
I was there for seven months,maybe eight months ata push, but
(14:07):
I knew that I had a step intothe tech world.
Now I had a really good companyon my CV so I was starting to
build more of a profile formyself.
But I wanted to be in sales.
I really wanted to be talkingto clients, but more to bring
them value and, you know, addsomething to their organization,
make them more impactful, helpthem get their company to the
next level, no matter what theissues they were facing.
(14:27):
The role at Bookingcom for mewas more safe.
I was servicing more clientissues that I couldn't do much
other than follow the processesthat Bookingcom allowed us to in
terms of helping.
But I knew I could do more.
So that's when I went back onthe market to look for a more
sales position and that's when Ilanded my first account
executive position in a smallstartup tech company.
(14:47):
Canadian company.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Hey guys, I really hope you're enjoying the episode
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(15:11):
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forward to chatting soon.
Now let's get back to theconversation.
I love your story becauseyou've come from completely out
(15:34):
of industry 10 years or so beingan entrepreneur in horses in
retail in bookingcom Land, yourfirst SaaS job as an AE there
for another year or two.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Two and a half years, actually Two and a half years.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And then get what I think is it's not a
once-in-a-lifetime opportunity,but the opportunity to join a
startup scale of SaaS businessthat has just been valued at a
billion euros and is just onthis crazy trajectory.
Those opportunities don't comearound often and you got not
(16:15):
just your foot in the door, butyou got your foot in the door
and you just accelerated, andthat's the piece I guess I want
to just drill into a little bitspecifically.
How did you?
You know you came acrossDatastip, but I can't imagine
they were a big global brand atthat point Like, what did they
look like from the outside andwhat made you choose them?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So it was, I think, for me.
At the first SaaS company I gotinto I joined as an account
executive.
I had more of an accountmanager type experience, the
classic role of managing thatbook of business.
It didn't really give me thevalue add or the fast-paced
environment that I was used tofrom being an entrepreneur
(17:02):
myself.
I could kind of set my own paceand I always took things to the
next level Very great company,great culture.
I was very happy there.
But I felt a bit capped interms of what I could do and I
knew I could do more.
At that point I actually reachedout to a recruiter, bluebird,
and I met Michael and Iexplained to him my whole
(17:25):
situation, what I've done, whatI'm capable of, what I would
like to do.
And I think at that point in mycareer I actually got that
first point of mentorshipoutside council in terms of
growing my kitchen cabinet ofpeople that I could lean on to
really get advice and help.
And we spoke about a lot.
I remember our firstconversation and he sort of said
to me what are you looking for?
And I dived into a few top ofmind things for me, but again, I
(17:48):
didn't.
My time at a key cafe.
That's where I was a firstaccount executive.
I didn't know anything aboutthe SaaS industry looking at
sales methodologies or how tobuild out playbooks.
I really didn't know anything.
If you told me about Medic, I'dbe like, sorry, what Can we
dive a bit into that?
I just said that I wanted to bein a fast-paced environment and
I wanted to make a change.
(18:09):
I wanted to bring value to anytype of company.
But Data Snipper stood out tome because I like the idea of
fintech, but not really withinthe financial services space,
but more a fintech type ofsolution that could help be
impactful to end users.
So when you think fintech, youthink of the bigger players,
(18:31):
like banking applications, butthat's all like that's big tech.
What Data Snipper was doing wassomething that really brought
value to auditors, which is, Imean, a very, very valuable
person in the fintech.
Well, financial industry, notjust fintech.
You know their entire career,what their whole job is, built
on trust.
They bring trust to anybody.
(18:52):
If you read a financial report,if you're looking at stock
numbers, you trust those numbers.
Why do you trust them?
Because the companies put thosenumbers out, so that's an
auditor at some point or afinancial professional has
touched those numbers to vetthem.
So when I started to reallyunderstand what DataSnipper was
bringing in terms of animprovement of workflow for
auditors, I thought, no, this isa great tool.
(19:15):
I see the value here and Ireally don't understand why
there is no other tool like thisin the market.
I went through the interviewprocess with DataSnipper, spoke
with ex-auditors as well, and Ialso branched out a little bit
to back-channel DataSnipper.
I spoke to some of my friendsthat have been working in audit
for the Big Four, asking them ifthey've used the product.
Some of my friends that havebeen working in audit for the
big four, asking them if they'veused the product, what do they
(19:36):
think, and they only said greatthings about the solution, but
they also told me about areaswhere they thought it could
maybe do more or help themfurther, and I just decided that
I think this is something Iwant to get my hands on.
It sounds really exciting.
Again, I don't know how toscale an organization.
I don't know anything aboutsales methodologies, but I know
how to sell and I can.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
This is an impactful tool that is going to bring
value to the people that DaveSnipp was trying to sell to at
the time.
I love the fact that you you alot of candidates, you know.
What I find is is like we speakto them and they will take
whatever job they're offered.
They just want to get a job,they just want to get a company,
they want income, they wantjust to be employed.
But if we flip this around andin that circumstance the
(20:22):
interview is actually onedirectional, it's the company
interviewing the candidate,whereby, if you, as a candidate,
flip that around and actuallyreally truly have a goal of
understanding who thisorganisation is, their value
proposition and interviewingthem, one is you validate it for
yourself, but two, you alsodemonstrate your skills and
(20:44):
capabilities as part of thatprocess as well.
So it's actually a working casestudy, so it's a double win.
So no, great to hear that andgreat tips as well.
So you came on board.
They obviously hit the jackpotin finding someone that was a
great salesperson andentrepreneurial.
(21:05):
Came on board as an accountexecutive and I think it was
just over a year you were inthat role and saw great success.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
A question how do you compare or liken
entrepreneurship to softwaresales?
Yeah, good question.
I think for me it was all aboutthe focus, you know, when I
joined it.
So maybe to make clearer, whenI had my first role at Key Cafe,
I was given very specific focusand maybe by chance or maybe in
complete error, they put me ona market and they were like go
(21:43):
make us successful there.
And I thought, okay, I can godo that.
And I was super successful, gotin some massive key logos for
them, really got them off theground up and running into a
market that they had no tractionin at all.
And when I came to DataSnipper,we had a bit more of a
(22:03):
free-flowing environment wherethe inbound leads would be on
maybe a rotation basis to thedifferent account executives,
but there wasn't focus and somefeedback I kept giving to
leadership at the time was Ithink we should be focusing in
like hyper-focus into regions sothat you've got one person who
can really go to market there,make it successful, give
feedback on what we need to makethat region more successful as
(22:25):
a customer but bring more impactto them.
So, from both sides, afterbuilding in a bit more of a
process and a playbook and thentrying to like nuance it per
region, a little bit oflocalization.
I think what really made mestand out, or at least be
successful, is that I got rid ofall the white noise.
(22:46):
I had various regions that weremy focus, but I also looked
down at what is going to make mesuccessful, what's going to get
me to my number so that I couldhyper-focus into that space.
The other regions they werejust.
It was fluff for me If I got aclient there and it was working
great.
But I had hyper-focus and Ican't remember what your exact
question was.
(23:06):
But I think the question wasthat that's what made it
successful.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, and it's the similarity between
entrepreneurship and SaaS sales.
And again, what I'm picking uphere is.
You're not just coming in hereas a sales rep.
You've got that entrepreneurmind of I'm not just here to
execute on sell.
I'm actually here to look atthis as a holistic opportunity
of adding value to both sides ofthe coin.
(23:33):
How can I?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
yeah, yeah and I think it's important to think
into the future.
You know, being in a very fastscaling environment I mean we
had even hyper growth from theday I joined like we were two
xing our targets month on month,quarter on quarter.
People get lost a little bit inlike that roller coaster, like
it's going so fast and you'rebeing very reactive.
I wanted to bring moreproactivity into my thought
(23:56):
process, my thinking.
I wasn't really in a strategicposition at the time as an
account executive, I just had toclose revenue.
But I really thought about whatcan I do today but is actually
going to help me in six monthstime, in a year's time, and not
forgetting to focus a little biton that forward thinking, that
strategy which, going back tobeing in that entrepreneurial
(24:17):
mindset, I also had to forwardthink all the time because if I
was by myself, didn't have amassive team, if in six months'
time we're not closing newclients or my retail business is
not making money or doingonline sales, that's going to be
a me problem in six months'time.
So how can I prevent that beinga data snipper problem in six
months' time?
So how can I prevent that beinga data snipper problem in six
months' time Forward thinking Iwant to go back.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You mentioned playbooks and implementing
playbooks.
Just unpack what is a playbookin your world.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
So, from my experience and within our world,
it's the process, it's thesales strategy and the sales
cycle that you'd be putting yourclients through in terms of
getting them over the line.
When I joined data snipper, wehad a playbook I think a very
good start of a playbook.
That was, you know, built by mysales manager at the time, who
is now the the vp at datasnipper, but it could be
(25:07):
improved.
So taking that playbook andsaying right from inbound, lead
all the way to contract closure,to onboarding the client who's
responsible for which piece?
How can we nuance it perterritory, say, per market
segment, and what is going toultimately make your clients
successful?
Because when you start speakingto someone, you want the deal
(25:27):
to close.
That's your goal as asalesperson.
You want to bring in therevenue.
As a salesperson, you want tobring in the revenue.
So it's just a whole bunch ofstrategies company strategy,
your own personal, maybe,strategy as a salesperson to get
those deals over the line.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I'm jumping around a little bit here.
I'm interested in your responsehere.
When I'm looking at, when I'veinterviewed as a sales leader, I
typically look forcharacteristics and I look for
IQ, eq, drive, coachability,inquisition, cultural fit and I
share different mechanisms ofidentifying what some of those
(26:02):
pieces are.
And when I talk about drivespecifically, I say it's not
just the verbal communicationSomeone says they're driven or
they've achieved a particulargoal but it's the nonverbal
communication, it's the way theyrespond, it's their body
language, etc.
And I can see like so muchdrive in you, in in an abundance
, like you're sitting here andI'm just, I get excited, like
just listening to this story.
(26:23):
So my question is like whatdrives you, like what are you
really truly like trying toachieve now, in the future, and
what, what gets you?
Yeah, so completely personally.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I want financial freedom.
I think, that's a huge goal forme and my husband.
We would love to one day beable to sit back, retire and
just know that we're financiallysound.
So that's, I think, drive forme is to just be as successful
as I can be right now so that Idon't have to worry one day
about our situation.
I don't know if we have alittle bit of a PTSD or trauma
from leaving South Africa, but Ithink starting new in Europe
(26:56):
seven years ago with nothing, itwas a big sort of eye-waker for
us.
We really need to build out oursafety net now so that we're
comfortable in the future.
So that's obviously where allmy sort of, I think, ambition
and drive falls into is ourfuture.
But on a day-to-day level, likewhat drives me is I just want to
be making an impact.
I like having impactfulconversations.
(27:18):
I want to help companies besuccessful as well.
It's not just about my success.
I want to make their companiesmore profitable, more efficient,
bring value.
I love having sort of thoseconversations with people,
whether that means I'm going toget a deal over the line or
maybe we've just had a good sortof those conversations with
people, whether that means I'mgoing to get a deal over the
line, or maybe we've just had agood sort of sparring session
with each other on how we canhelp each other be more
(27:39):
impactful.
Like that really gets me up inthe morning meeting new people,
learning new things.
Every time I speak to a client,like I'm learning something
about their world, theirchallenges.
Maybe it can help me in mysituation, or not.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Like it's constant growth that I'm looking for.
Yeah, love that, love that.
So I want to.
I want to transition forward toum the.
There's a couple of leaps inyour career and they're major
milestones going from aindividual contributor to a
people manager.
That's one.
And then, you know, that'sphase one.
I want to ask you a little bitabout that.
And then phase two is likepeople leader to a regional
leader.
So you know, on that journey ofgoing from ic individual
contributor to managing a teamin the netherlands, what were,
(28:21):
um, what was that experiencelike?
And and what were the, theunknowns that you, you, you went
through that, you went off.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I didn't expect that yeah, I think for me that was, I
feel, like the biggest sort ofpersonal challenge at this point
.
I was always a strongindividual contributor.
I've always had my goal.
I know what to do to achieve mygoal.
I can manage my journey.
I'm responsible for my ownsuccess.
So being that IC was mystrength.
(28:49):
I think being super successfulin my role also opened up doors
to get, you know, promotions goto that next step.
I remember sitting with mymanager at the time and I wasn't
really sure what I wanted to dowhen it was coming to
promotions, what you want to gointo a team lead role or do you,
you know, want to become moreof an expert in your field?
And I thought to myself, likewhich is the muscle that I feel
like I can start strengthening alittle bit, like what's going
(29:11):
to take me to the next level?
And I felt like peoplemanagement was something I
really didn't have too muchexperience with outside of.
You know the classic at myretail equestrian store I would
have a couple sort of tempsworking for me or just like not
massive global go-to-marketteams that we would have to sort
of manage.
So I think for me, I justreally thought about putting
(29:34):
myself always in my team's shoes.
I've been there, I've done thework.
I know how hard it is and Iknow what it takes to get you to
the next level.
Always try and reflect back,but then look at the team and
think how can I best supportthem to be as successful as I
was?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And when you're building out your team.
I mean you're a high operator.
I imagine people interviewingwith you it's going to be tough
to reach the qualification to beselected to join the team.
But what are the keycharacteristics, traits, skill
sets that you look for?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I really need someone who's an entrepreneur at least
an entrepreneurial mindsetsomeone who's an entrepreneur,
or at least an entrepreneurialmindset.
I think it depends on the stageof the team and what you're
hiring for.
In my experience, every timeI've been hiring, it's been that
go-to-market team.
So I really need self-starters,people that can put themselves
out there, that have maybe shownsome experience in terms of
(30:28):
dealing with challenges.
But for me, what is moreimportant is what did they do
with those challenges?
What were the outcomes?
So I often ask for examples, ifI would speak into them to try
and vet their experience and seeif it's, if it's going to be a
good fit for my team and what Iexpect in terms of them being a
high performer and then leaningon that accountability if
they've made mistakes in thepast.
(30:49):
I want to see that people arenot afraid to tell me about
their mistakes and what did theydo with those learnings to
apply to the next challenge theyhad, or maybe a next career?
Those are things that I reallylook for.
To be honest, I don't reallydive into numbers.
If you're dealing with someonethat's come from a startup
(31:09):
environment or big tech, I would, of course, ask them their
quotas and make sure that theyare aware of what their goals
were and what they had to do toachieve them.
But I've hired people that werehitting 200% of their quota
month on month, quarter onquarter, and I've also hired
people that really couldn'tbring in a single deal in six
months because of circumstancesthat they were facing.
So I really dig deep, I try andunderstand what those
(31:32):
challenges were and what did thecandidate do with those
challenges to take theiropportunity forward or give
feedback to the organization?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
those things are really important and I think
that goes down to accountabilityand being an entrepreneur,
which is a self-starter yeah,that's a really good point,
because one of the thechallenges and it's a
double-edged sword is a lot ofhiring teams are asking about
your quota attainment what wasyour percentage against quota?
(31:59):
And I want to see how you'veachieved every quarter for the
last two years.
It's really just the icing onthe cake, because the reality is
maybe they're lying.
It's really difficult tovalidate whether they're
truthful or not, and they're agreat marketer saying that
they've overachieved, but alsothere are circumstances where it
(32:22):
wasn't the reps or theindividual's fault for not
hitting their number.
A lot of the times, companieshave got leadership changes, the
quota changes, the marketchanges, et cetera.
I think it's a leadingindicator, but really being able
to look for those underlyingaspects is really important as
well.
Yeah, and just to go one morestep on that, do you have any
(32:47):
golden questions that you ask aspart of an interview process
where you're just really able toextract information that is
going to help you?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
yeah, good question.
I must.
I must think of it so to Iactually go into my interviews
quite conversationally.
Yeah, I don't really have a setsort of template of questions
that I like to ask, so it reallydepends where we go in terms of
the conversation.
Um, if I feel that we're goingmore into a conversation type of
interview, that to me isnormally a good sign, provided
(33:19):
that the candidate is stillquite impactful, gets to the
point and really shares theirmessage.
But if I feel like I need to getmore into the, the questions in
terms of guiding them, um, Ialways lean back to uh,
challenges, success stories,what have you done?
So I dive a little bit deeperinto maybe a previous product
they sold or what it was like,and then I ask them so I want to
(33:42):
hear the biggest deal failure,tell me which deal didn't work.
I really want to understand why.
They can white label it, ofcourse, and not share client
details, for example, but Ireally want to understand what
were the challenges.
And then I would pause them andsay understand that challenge.
Where did it go wrong?
Why do you think Was it?
(34:02):
If they say sales execution,what was the learning from that?
And did you apply that learningin the future deal.
So I would hope that thecandidate could kind of give me
that full picture, because thenI can see that like intellectual
curiosity in themselves, thatself-understanding how did they
apply their challenges?
Sometimes candidates need a bitmore guidance in terms of how
do we ask those questions or howdo I get them to the answer
(34:23):
that I'm looking for.
So that's normally how I framemy interviews.
It's maybe not as classic asnormal interview structures, but
that for me is important.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I think it's a great way.
I'm not a big fan of yourtypical interview type questions
.
You can extract so much, but Ilove your additional layer is
you can extract so much, but Ilove your your you know
additional layer.
I love that example of tell meyour biggest failure because you
can learn so much.
For was it their fault?
Was it not?
Did they take accountability,did they?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
learn are they coachable?
yeah, and I think it alsosometimes, if you are a bit
concerned about candidates,maybe reason for leaving their
current company.
Sometimes it could be becauseof a misclick with management or
maybe they're actually anunderperformer.
But how they answer thatquestion usually paints a bit of
a picture for me of what'sactually going on and and why
(35:10):
they're looking to maybe move onor find their next step.
So it's a bit of a I've got totrust my guts, yeah, when I get
into those sort of conversations.
But if the candidates has thatintellectual curiosity, they
have the ambition, they're anentrepreneur, self-starter they
normally answer to it quite, Ithink, clearly in their response
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
So you've been with DataSnippet for a couple of
years.
Great success individualcontributor building a sales
team.
And then the business, yourmanager, the CEO whoever it
would have been came and had theconversation about you stepping
up again and flying to theother side of the world.
Talk to me about what was thatconversation like and how did it
(35:53):
feel, and what went throughyour mind when you?
Were going to take on thisagain, this new challenge.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, so I actually got.
It was quite a surprise, to behonest.
I knew that Data Snipper waslooking to have more of a
regional presence in APAC.
I did not think that I would betop of mind you know I'm pretty
junior in terms of my career inleading this size of a team,
(36:19):
like being in the size of anorganization.
I would have, I guess, thoughtand this is maybe my like
imposter syndrome kicking inlike there's no ways they would
want me to go over and lead thecompany.
They would hire someoneregionally who knows the market,
knows exactly what's going on.
It probably came well.
It did come from the fact thatI was super successful in my
APAC territories.
(36:39):
I would invest a lot of time inAPAC when I was an account
executive.
I would get up very early inthe morning every single day to
make sure I had enough time tospeak to Australia and New
Zealand and build this market.
When I got promoted to thesales manager position, we
started hiring regional accountexecutives.
So we had a small team inAustralia and we were going to
(36:59):
slowly start hiring in SoutheastAsia.
I kept giving a lot of feedbackto the organization, saying
that I was struggling to managethe team from Amsterdam because
of the time overlap.
You know, it's just.
It was very demanding.
They needed me front and centerwith the clients and one
morning I was actually on PTO.
I was in South Africa having abreak and I got a call from my
manager who the VP at the time,and I thought, oh my God,
(37:20):
something's gone wrong.
He would never phone me onholiday.
I'm freaking out.
Picked up the phone and he waslike I want to open a regional
office and I want you to go andlead it.
What do you think?
And I was a bit speechless, tobe honest.
It hadn't really crossed mymind.
I was like me Okay, so I gaveit some thought.
Okay, so I gave it some thought.
(37:41):
But that's really how it cameto be.
It was very sudden.
You know, datasnip has reallysaid they wanted someone with
you know the tribal knowledge togo over and really stamp our
culture in the new office, makesure that all that knowledge
that I had had selling withinthe region I could share with
the new team when I build andscale it.
(38:02):
So that's kind of how it cameto pass.
It was very unsudden, but yeah,I think that the company was
really excited to have me over.
They felt that I was the rightfit at the time to come.
So, yeah, I obviously said yesbecause here we are.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and I've worked with the asean
market myself for for a longtime and it's it's it's
different to um, to the westernmarket.
So what have been some of thethe biggest learnings that
you've had?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
you know, for for us, um, it's definitely that
localization element, especiallyif you're looking at apac as a
full territory.
What we do in Australia and NewZealand is not going to fit
Japan, it's not going to fitSingapore that's excluding the
rest of Southeast Asia.
Go-to-market strategies need tobe really defined per territory
(38:55):
.
You, from our perspective, needto really consider having
regionalized reps teams at least, because we're definitely our
way of selling is moreconsultative.
We come in as like trustedadvisors to the clients.
So if you don't understandtheir culture, their way of
working, the accounting worldfor us is very different per
(39:17):
territory because of all thedifferent government rules, that
type of thing.
You just got to make sure thatyou've specialised your
go-to-market per region.
Sometimes slowing down, scalingdown, makes more sense than
trying to go with that big bangand doing all the territories at
one go.
So where do you want to focus?
What's going to bring you theeasiest return, with maybe
minimum or minimal changes likelocalisations, like really
(39:40):
making sure the product needs tobe changed, or have you done
enough research for theseterritories?
That is, I think, the maintakeaways.
It's localize, specialize, thatgo to markets and for me, it's
that slow down to speed up.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
When you yeah, just take a pause.
And what I picked up as well isthat you're a big advocate and
believer in development of theteams and those around you.
There's a lot of people thatlisten to this show, that are
aspiring sales leaders, that areon their way up, that are
potentially in a rut orconsidering a career change into
(40:16):
SaaS sales.
What advice would you give toanyone that's got questions
about this industry?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
would you give to anyone that's got questions
about this industry?
You know, if you want to getinto sales in SaaS, it's
fast-paced.
I think I've experiencedfast-pacing in all my sort of
positions within sales, but SaaSspecifically it's quick.
You need to be okay with that.
If you're in a startupenvironment, even more so.
If you like speaking to people,if you like bringing value to
(40:45):
companies, if you are a trueadvocate for technology, then
this is the role for you.
Again, working for startups, Ithink, is very different to
working for big corp or maybeyou know bigger tech.
They've got more establishedprocesses.
In a startup environmentsometimes there's less structure
than you might think you need.
So if you're a very structuredperson, that's great.
(41:06):
You have a big value add to theteam in general.
But very good for your owncareer to be structured.
But if that's something youlean on heavily to be successful
, then you might want to notconsider a startup, or at least
an early phase startup.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
And one thing I don't want to put words in your mouth
, but you've mentionedentrepreneurship,
intrapreneurship as well.
So I also believe that thosethat can I call it operating in
gray and similar to the lack ofprocess, but those that want to
build something above justcoming in for a day job, I think
that those are often greatcandidates as well.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I see SaaS sales as a lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And it's a pretty full-on lifestyle, but it can be
incredibly rewarding, both froma development and an earnings
perspective.
Alex, for those that arelistening and might want to
learn a little bit more aboutDataSnipper and who they are and
what they do, how can they findDataSnipper?
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, so we're online , of course, wwwdatasnippercom.
We have our LinkedIn pages,some of our social medias as
well.
We're very active on LinkedIn,so LinkedIn is really where you
can find the most aboutDataSnipper.
If anyone's curious aboutgetting into the SaaS world,
maybe from a sales perspective,our teams are scaling really
fast and we're always hiring.
So if they want to get a bitmore of an inside information,
(42:24):
they can look me up as well.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I can give some tips and tricks and how can people
look you up linkedin on linkedin?
Yeah, perfect, perfect, awesome.
Well, look, alex.
It's been incredibly valuable.
I've gotten so much out of this, uh, this conversation.
Thank you for joining us thanksfor having me and, um, yeah,
really looking forward to seeingwhat you do next.
And I think it's important to think into the
future, being in a veryfast-scaling environment, even
hyper-growth.
From the day I joined, we were2x-ing our targets month on
month, quarter on quarter.
Alex Hadden, the APAC salesdirector for the billion-dollar
unicorn data snipper Somefeedback I kept giving to
leadership at the time was Ithink we should be focusing in,
(00:20):
like hyper-focus, into regionsso that you've got one person
who can really go to marketthere, make it successful, give
feedback on what we need to makethat region well more like,
successful as a customer, butbring more impact to them.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
so from both sides, really having a look at what you
have achieved in the last threeyears is nothing short of
sensational promoted reallyquickly to team lead sales
manager and then coming overfrom the netherlands to run apac
for billion dollar unicorn.
That is incredible.
Like those opportunities don'tcome around often and you got
not just your foot in the door,but you got your foot in the
(00:55):
door and you just accelerated.
What did they look like fromthe outside and what what made
you choose them yeah, goodquestion.
I must, I must think of Alex,thank you so much for joining us
on our podcast Battle Scars ofa Sales Leader.
I've been incredibly excited tohave you join this show in
particular and tell your storyIn a real nutshell.
(01:16):
I've become acquainted withData Snipper, where you're
currently the APAC salesdirector, as we've been working
relatively closely over the lastnine months or so.
But really having a look atwhat you have achieved in the
last three years is nothingshort of sensational Joining
with Data Snipper as an accountexecutive, being promoted really
quickly to team lead salesmanager and then coming over
(01:39):
from the Netherlands to run APACfor a billion dollar unicorn.
That is incredible.
So incredibly excited to drillinto some of the battle scars
that you may have earned alongthe way.
But we've had a conversationbefore and there's a lot more to
the story before Data Snippetsstarted, so I'd love to just
(02:00):
hand over to you and tell usyour story.
How did you get to where youare today, and go back as far as
you can.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, sure.
Well, first, thanks for havingme.
Great to be here.
It's a long story.
I'm a horse girl.
I grew up riding horses my wholelife, loved them, was very
passionate and, you know, got tothe end of high school, didn't
(02:29):
really know what to do andthought, you know, got to the
end of high school, didn'treally know what to do and
thought you know what?
I'm just going to go studyhorses.
I did a.
It's called Equine Sciences.
It's a BSc degree.
It's from a Technicon in SouthAfrica, but it really
specializes in horses, but moreso looking after horses.
And I had an amazing time atuniversity, finished that, you
know, and then thought I stilldon't really know what I'm going
to do with this degree.
You know, having horses is anexpensive hobby and I kind of
(02:52):
realized I'm going to have toneed a lot of money to keep my
hobby going.
So I think the thing that Ifell into was sales and it kind
of happened by accident.
My parents are veryentrepreneurial.
They've owned multiple types ofbusinesses, my grandparents as
well, and so growing up I wouldalways land up being at, you
know, my mom's business afterschool, on the weekends, helping
(03:13):
out.
Where I can, I would work inschool tuck shops selling candy
at the dance studios that wererelated to my mom and my sisters
.
I would also try and make someextra money and I thought you
know I can get into sales.
But in the horse industry, sostarted at they're called tack
shops, basically sell horseequipment, feed supplements,
nutrition, clothing for theriders, that type of thing and I
(03:36):
loved it and I thought tomyself I was this.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
this is in South Africa, south Africa, yeah, In.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
South Africa.
That's where I was born.
I went to school and basicallystayed until about seven years
ago, but we'll get there.
I thought you know, this issomething that I would love to
do for myself.
I wanted to be independent.
I wanted to have my own company, my own business.
Learned a lot working for othersort of retail stores and other
tech shops, but I could do thismyself and I could do it a
little bit differently.
(04:02):
And I could do this myself andI could do it a little bit
differently.
And when I say differently, itwas more about taking it online.
In South Africa, the market isusually a few years behind the
rest of the world, and onlineshopping we're talking now 15,
16 years ago was a bit of a newidea.
The whole e-commerce trustingthat if you place an order
online, it's actually going toarrive at your front door.
There is a lot of steps inSouth Africa.
(04:28):
You've got to get through thepostal service, which is not
that reliable, maybe going witha private courier company there
weren't that many at the timeand I just I felt that that was
a niche or at least a gap in themarket that I could potentially
solve for.
So to try and condense thatjourney a little bit.
I came across another tech shopthat was in a startup phase.
It was really small.
It was run by a girl that I metin the industry and we kicked
it off quite well.
(04:48):
I came and worked for herinitially and through that
growth, eventually became abusiness partner with her.
We took that business onlineand made it hugely successful.
We also started importinginternational brands.
So I got a lot of experience inmore of the retail space but
really just being thatsalesperson being in front of
every horse person I knew,trying to be a trusted advisor
to them, like if their horse hadan issue, say a nutrition issue
(05:11):
, I would always have thesupplement to back it up and I
could post it to them if theywere not in Johannesburg, which
is where I'm originally from.
So I really took that companyregional out of Joburg we went
to Cape Town, bloemfontein, likeall the major states where
there were a lot of horses.
Eventually I stepped away frommy business partner and I opened
a side business, still inhorses, but I started designing
(05:33):
my own clothing, my own brand,and that was also doing
exceptionally well.
And then we decided toimmigrate, so moved to the
Netherlands, followed my husbandand I think I arrived in Europe
and I really didn't know what Iwanted to do, but I knew I was
a good salesperson, like that'sa skill that I could leverage
there to, at least, you know,keep progressing my career.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
I just want to ask a question.
It sounds like you're veryentrepreneurial.
You set up a couple ofdifferent businesses in horses
to fashion what was theunderlying driver driver like?
What were you looking toachieve when you set each one of
those up?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I think for me, I just really wanted to be
independent at the time.
I wanted to be my own boss.
I wanted to, you know, controlmy own hours, make my own
decisions.
I just wanted to beself-sufficient as well.
Like I said at the start, Iknew I needed to sustain my
let's put it down to the hobbyat that point, when I was
younger, I wanted horses and Ineeded to be able to pay for
them, but I always just knewthat I could get further, foster
(06:31):
being that entrepreneurial likewe're using, that
entrepreneurial mindset andspirit.
That's really what drove methat independence, being
financially stable.
I think South Africa is a bitof a different environment.
If you can make it as anentrepreneur, you're more set up
for your future and your ownsuccess.
At least from my experience andleaning with my parents, I
think I learned a lot from themand they were also very
entrepreneurial.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, it's funny because I've spoken to a few
people.
I've looked at similarities inparents and the children.
In my time when I was a daddo,I noticed that some of the top
performers in my team actuallyhad really successful parents,
and a lot of them came from thetechnology industry as well.
Um, and there's, it does seemto be that correlation.
(07:14):
I don't know if it's nature ornurture, but being able to, um,
yeah, really be surrounded bypeople, that, that that you can
learn from and be inspired from.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I think that's absolutely right.
I remember countless eveningssitting with both my parents.
Just this is an issue I'mfacing.
I'm having an issue with mysupply chain, or I'm really
struggling to deal with the postoffice I think of a very
governmental sort of institutionin South Africa.
What can I do to solve thesechallenges?
I mean, I would land up in somesticky situations where my dad
(07:45):
would come with me in the carjust to help me resolve it,
because I kind of needed thatbackup and they would always let
me do it by myself.
But it was that supportstructure that was so beneficial
, to me at least, and I thinkthat's why I learned a lot from
them and almost tried to usethem as that reflection when I
was building my own sort ofcareer.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
And how did you land in the Netherlands?
Yes, of all places.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
So my now husband he was my boyfriend at the time is
still a chiropractor, but got anopportunity in the Netherlands
to work as a chiropractor and wehad a long conversation about
this, because it really meantpacking up everything and
leaving.
I think I had a little bit morestability in my own career at
that point.
He studied a lot longer than Idid and I think in those seven
(08:30):
years that I spent building mybusiness he was still completing
his chiropractic master's.
We really had to decide if thisis what we were going to do.
I think, being South African,only having a South African
passport, you know we don't haveto get into it.
But there's a lot of turmoil inSouth Africa and we really
wanted a bit of that exit plan.
We decided, okay, let's do it,but we have to do it properly.
(08:51):
So we decided to immigrate,which meant I had to consolidate
everything with my businesses.
So part of it I sold off, therest I kept, but sort of also
shelved for a little bit tothink what can I do in the
future with it.
But we really moved to theNetherlands.
So we immigrated, packed ourbags, I followed him and that's
what got us to the Netherlands,more specifically Nijmegen,
(09:13):
which is a town or city ratheron the border of Germany, so
it's a little bit more inland.
It's not that Amsterdam sort ofexpat bubble, the Randstad as
we call it, expat bubble, theRandstad as we call it.
So it was very much like theNetherlands.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
So you landed in the Netherlands, your boyfriend,
soon to be husband, isdelivering on everything he
studied for becoming achiropractor, and you go out to
market to find a job.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, it was a challenge.
I think this was pre-COVID, soremote online working wasn't
really a thing.
I said we landed in Nijmegen.
It was a challenge.
I think this was pre-COVID, soremote online working wasn't
really a thing.
I said we landed in Nijmegen.
It was a very Dutch city, so wehad a little bit of an
advantage.
We speak Afrikaans.
It's a very old dialect ofDutch, but I was by no means
fluent in Dutch, so finding workfor me was somewhat of a
(10:01):
challenge.
I picked up random jobs hereand there.
I actually landed up at abakery, had so much fun.
I think that's where I learnedDutch really quickest.
Literally selling cakes had agreat time, but I knew it wasn't
what I wanted in the long runbecause in the back of my mind I
wanted to be in tech.
You know I'm a millennial.
Most of my life I've grown upwith technology and technology
(10:23):
has evolved a lot with me.
I also introduced thattechnology element into my own
equestrian store in South Africaby getting it online really
like leveraging the e-commercespace to make it successful and
I knew that the tech industrywas a lot bigger than at least
what I knew of it.
I mean, I had no real idea ofwhat the tech industry was like
at all, but knew that it was aninterest of me.
(10:45):
But how do I get in?
I really wasn't sure what to do.
I had no network, noconnections, and at the time my
perspective was really that ofwell, you've never worked in
tech, you didn't study abusiness degree, you don't have
a BCom or anything like that,how are you going to do this?
But I kept thinking well, Iknow I'm a good salesperson.
I really am.
I can only speak for myselfbecause I haven't really been
(11:06):
employed by anyone other thanbeing an entrepreneur.
But I can speak to my successesand my results and I just put
myself out on the market.
So I started applying to everytech company that I could think
of, internationally, in Europe,in the Netherlands.
The issue for me in theNetherlands was the language.
Internationally, I think remoteworking wasn't yet really a
(11:27):
thing.
Everything was in office.
So we actually made a bigdecision to move to the Randstad
, which is the Amsterdam,utrecht, the Hague area.
It's more expat-friendly,there's more English.
Jared, my husband, decided thathe would change practices, so
he would move to a practice thatside as well.
So at that point he followed meand let me try and build out my
(11:48):
own dream and career there andthrough all the interviewing I
landed a job at Bookingcom.
So that was my initialintroduction into technology.
So I think for me it was mainlyjust the element of keep trying
, never stop.
Apply to as many places as youcan attend all those interviews.
Learn from every like likemessed up interview.
There's always learning fromthere to do better at the next
(12:11):
next one.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, I'm just picking up like this innate
drive that you've got within you, and also this um, at the same
time, this, this principle ofyou, create your own luck as
well.
Nothing is going to be handedto you.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
You really, you really need to put your best
foot forward and put yourselfout there to get there.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
So, and what year are we in now?
This is.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Oh, this is 2018.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
This is 2018.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, late 2018, just going into 2019.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
2019.
So you were bookingcom for.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Very short time actually.
So bookingcom was a huge stepto us moving to the Randstad.
I actually got the job beforewe had moved.
We kind of played it by ear IfI got the job, we would move, if
I didn't get the job, we wouldstay in Nijmegen.
And I got a job at Bookingcom,so really exciting.
Okay, let's move.
(13:02):
Then came the hassle of findinga place to live.
That's a different story, but Ithis was about middle of the
year of the 2019 so got to thecompany first day on boarded,
love the company.
They've got an amazing culture.
They had a nice campus inAmsterdam.
You know, I for me, I'd neverworked in corporate.
(13:22):
It was very different for me tokind of fit into not being that.
I mean, I was always anentrepreneur.
I answered for my own faults, Iwould correct my own challenges
but also made my own decisions,whereas now you were part of a
much larger team and I mean ahuge team, this global company,
thousands of employees.
So it was a bit of anadjustment for me, but I was
just really grateful for theopportunity.
(13:43):
I was actually in the customerservices department Massive
change of pace.
It was intense.
You're answering the phones allthe time helping clients, both
guests but also on the hotelside of things.
But for me it wasn't reallywhat I was looking for in terms
of a career.
So my stint at bookingcom wasshort.
I was there for seven months,maybe eight months ata push, but
(14:07):
I knew that I had a step intothe tech world.
Now I had a really good companyon my CV so I was starting to
build more of a profile formyself.
But I wanted to be in sales.
I really wanted to be talkingto clients, but more to bring
them value and, you know, addsomething to their organization,
make them more impactful, helpthem get their company to the
next level, no matter what theissues they were facing.
(14:27):
The role at Bookingcom for mewas more safe.
I was servicing more clientissues that I couldn't do much
other than follow the processesthat Bookingcom allowed us to in
terms of helping.
But I knew I could do more.
So that's when I went back onthe market to look for a more
sales position and that's when Ilanded my first account
executive position in a smallstartup tech company.
(14:47):
Canadian company.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Hey guys, I really hope you're enjoying the episode
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forward to chatting soon.
Now let's get back to theconversation.
I love your story becauseyou've come from completely out
(15:34):
of industry 10 years or so beingan entrepreneur in horses in
retail in bookingcom Land, yourfirst SaaS job as an AE there
for another year or two.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Two and a half years, actually Two and a half years.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
And then get what I think is it's not a
once-in-a-lifetime opportunity,but the opportunity to join a
startup scale of SaaS businessthat has just been valued at a
billion euros and is just onthis crazy trajectory.
Those opportunities don't comearound often and you got not
(16:15):
just your foot in the door, butyou got your foot in the door
and you just accelerated, andthat's the piece I guess I want
to just drill into a little bitspecifically.
How did you?
You know you came acrossDatastip, but I can't imagine
they were a big global brand atthat point Like, what did they
look like from the outside andwhat made you choose them?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So it was, I think, for me.
At the first SaaS company I gotinto I joined as an account
executive.
I had more of an accountmanager type experience, the
classic role of managing thatbook of business.
It didn't really give me thevalue add or the fast-paced
environment that I was used tofrom being an entrepreneur
(17:02):
myself.
I could kind of set my own paceand I always took things to the
next level Very great company,great culture.
I was very happy there.
But I felt a bit capped interms of what I could do and I
knew I could do more.
At that point I actually reachedout to a recruiter, bluebird,
and I met Michael and Iexplained to him my whole
(17:25):
situation, what I've done, whatI'm capable of, what I would
like to do.
And I think at that point in mycareer I actually got that
first point of mentorshipoutside council in terms of
growing my kitchen cabinet ofpeople that I could lean on to
really get advice and help.
And we spoke about a lot.
I remember our firstconversation and he sort of said
to me what are you looking for?
And I dived into a few top ofmind things for me, but again, I
(17:48):
didn't.
My time at a key cafe.
That's where I was a firstaccount executive.
I didn't know anything aboutthe SaaS industry looking at
sales methodologies or how tobuild out playbooks.
I really didn't know anything.
If you told me about Medic, I'dbe like, sorry, what Can we
dive a bit into that?
I just said that I wanted to bein a fast-paced environment and
I wanted to make a change.
(18:09):
I wanted to bring value to anytype of company.
But Data Snipper stood out tome because I like the idea of
fintech, but not really withinthe financial services space,
but more a fintech type ofsolution that could help be
impactful to end users.
So when you think fintech, youthink of the bigger players,
(18:31):
like banking applications, butthat's all like that's big tech.
What Data Snipper was doing wassomething that really brought
value to auditors, which is, Imean, a very, very valuable
person in the fintech.
Well, financial industry, notjust fintech.
You know their entire career,what their whole job is, built
on trust.
They bring trust to anybody.
(18:52):
If you read a financial report,if you're looking at stock
numbers, you trust those numbers.
Why do you trust them?
Because the companies put thosenumbers out, so that's an
auditor at some point or afinancial professional has
touched those numbers to vetthem.
So when I started to reallyunderstand what DataSnipper was
bringing in terms of animprovement of workflow for
auditors, I thought, no, this isa great tool.
(19:15):
I see the value here and Ireally don't understand why
there is no other tool like thisin the market.
I went through the interviewprocess with DataSnipper, spoke
with ex-auditors as well, and Ialso branched out a little bit
to back-channel DataSnipper.
I spoke to some of my friendsthat have been working in audit
for the Big Four, asking them ifthey've used the product.
Some of my friends that havebeen working in audit for the
big four, asking them if they'veused the product, what do they
(19:36):
think, and they only said greatthings about the solution, but
they also told me about areaswhere they thought it could
maybe do more or help themfurther, and I just decided that
I think this is something Iwant to get my hands on.
It sounds really exciting.
Again, I don't know how toscale an organization.
I don't know anything aboutsales methodologies, but I know
how to sell and I can.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
This is an impactful tool that is going to bring
value to the people that DaveSnipp was trying to sell to at
the time.
I love the fact that you you alot of candidates, you know.
What I find is is like we speakto them and they will take
whatever job they're offered.
They just want to get a job,they just want to get a company,
they want income, they wantjust to be employed.
But if we flip this around andin that circumstance the
(20:22):
interview is actually onedirectional, it's the company
interviewing the candidate,whereby, if you, as a candidate,
flip that around and actuallyreally truly have a goal of
understanding who thisorganisation is, their value
proposition and interviewingthem, one is you validate it for
yourself, but two, you alsodemonstrate your skills and
(20:44):
capabilities as part of thatprocess as well.
So it's actually a working casestudy, so it's a double win.
So no, great to hear that andgreat tips as well.
So you came on board.
They obviously hit the jackpotin finding someone that was a
great salesperson andentrepreneurial.
(21:05):
Came on board as an accountexecutive and I think it was
just over a year you were inthat role and saw great success.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
A question how do you compare or liken
entrepreneurship to softwaresales?
Yeah, good question.
I think for me it was all aboutthe focus, you know, when I
joined it.
So maybe to make clearer, whenI had my first role at Key Cafe,
I was given very specific focusand maybe by chance or maybe in
complete error, they put me ona market and they were like go
(21:43):
make us successful there.
And I thought, okay, I can godo that.
And I was super successful, gotin some massive key logos for
them, really got them off theground up and running into a
market that they had no tractionin at all.
And when I came to DataSnipper,we had a bit more of a
(22:03):
free-flowing environment wherethe inbound leads would be on
maybe a rotation basis to thedifferent account executives,
but there wasn't focus and somefeedback I kept giving to
leadership at the time was Ithink we should be focusing in
like hyper-focus into regions sothat you've got one person who
can really go to market there,make it successful, give
feedback on what we need to makethat region more successful as
(22:25):
a customer but bring more impactto them.
So, from both sides, afterbuilding in a bit more of a
process and a playbook and thentrying to like nuance it per
region, a little bit oflocalization.
I think what really made mestand out, or at least be
successful, is that I got rid ofall the white noise.
(22:46):
I had various regions that weremy focus, but I also looked
down at what is going to make mesuccessful, what's going to get
me to my number so that I couldhyper-focus into that space.
The other regions they werejust.
It was fluff for me If I got aclient there and it was working
great.
But I had hyper-focus and Ican't remember what your exact
question was.
(23:06):
But I think the question wasthat that's what made it
successful.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, and it's the similarity between
entrepreneurship and SaaS sales.
And again, what I'm picking uphere is.
You're not just coming in hereas a sales rep.
You've got that entrepreneurmind of I'm not just here to
execute on sell.
I'm actually here to look atthis as a holistic opportunity
of adding value to both sides ofthe coin.
(23:33):
How can I?
Speaker 1 (23:34):
yeah, yeah and I think it's important to think
into the future.
You know, being in a very fastscaling environment I mean we
had even hyper growth from theday I joined like we were two
xing our targets month on month,quarter on quarter.
People get lost a little bit inlike that roller coaster, like
it's going so fast and you'rebeing very reactive.
I wanted to bring moreproactivity into my thought
(23:56):
process, my thinking.
I wasn't really in a strategicposition at the time as an
account executive, I just had toclose revenue.
But I really thought about whatcan I do today but is actually
going to help me in six monthstime, in a year's time, and not
forgetting to focus a little biton that forward thinking, that
strategy which, going back tobeing in that entrepreneurial
(24:17):
mindset, I also had to forwardthink all the time because if I
was by myself, didn't have amassive team, if in six months'
time we're not closing newclients or my retail business is
not making money or doingonline sales, that's going to be
a me problem in six months'time.
So how can I prevent that beinga data snipper problem in six
months' time?
So how can I prevent that beinga data snipper problem in six
months' time Forward thinking Iwant to go back.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You mentioned playbooks and implementing
playbooks.
Just unpack what is a playbookin your world.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
So, from my experience and within our world,
it's the process, it's thesales strategy and the sales
cycle that you'd be putting yourclients through in terms of
getting them over the line.
When I joined data snipper, wehad a playbook I think a very
good start of a playbook.
That was, you know, built by mysales manager at the time, who
is now the the vp at datasnipper, but it could be
(25:07):
improved.
So taking that playbook andsaying right from inbound, lead
all the way to contract closure,to onboarding the client who's
responsible for which piece?
How can we nuance it perterritory, say, per market
segment, and what is going toultimately make your clients
successful?
Because when you start speakingto someone, you want the deal
(25:27):
to close.
That's your goal as asalesperson.
You want to bring in therevenue.
As a salesperson, you want tobring in the revenue.
So it's just a whole bunch ofstrategies company strategy,
your own personal, maybe,strategy as a salesperson to get
those deals over the line.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I'm jumping around a little bit here.
I'm interested in your responsehere.
When I'm looking at, when I'veinterviewed as a sales leader, I
typically look forcharacteristics and I look for
IQ, eq, drive, coachability,inquisition, cultural fit and I
share different mechanisms ofidentifying what some of those
(26:02):
pieces are.
And when I talk about drivespecifically, I say it's not
just the verbal communicationSomeone says they're driven or
they've achieved a particulargoal but it's the nonverbal
communication, it's the way theyrespond, it's their body
language, etc.
And I can see like so muchdrive in you, in in an abundance
, like you're sitting here andI'm just, I get excited, like
just listening to this story.
(26:23):
So my question is like whatdrives you, like what are you
really truly like trying toachieve now, in the future, and
what, what gets you?
Yeah, so completely personally.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
I want financial freedom.
I think, that's a huge goal forme and my husband.
We would love to one day beable to sit back, retire and
just know that we're financiallysound.
So that's, I think, drive forme is to just be as successful
as I can be right now so that Idon't have to worry one day
about our situation.
I don't know if we have alittle bit of a PTSD or trauma
from leaving South Africa, but Ithink starting new in Europe
(26:56):
seven years ago with nothing, itwas a big sort of eye-waker for
us.
We really need to build out oursafety net now so that we're
comfortable in the future.
So that's obviously where allmy sort of, I think, ambition
and drive falls into is ourfuture.
But on a day-to-day level, likewhat drives me is I just want to
be making an impact.
I like having impactfulconversations.
(27:18):
I want to help companies besuccessful as well.
It's not just about my success.
I want to make their companiesmore profitable, more efficient,
bring value.
I love having sort of thoseconversations with people,
whether that means I'm going toget a deal over the line or
maybe we've just had a good sortof those conversations with
people, whether that means I'mgoing to get a deal over the
line, or maybe we've just had agood sort of sparring session
with each other on how we canhelp each other be more
(27:39):
impactful.
Like that really gets me up inthe morning meeting new people,
learning new things.
Every time I speak to a client,like I'm learning something
about their world, theirchallenges.
Maybe it can help me in mysituation, or not.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Like it's constant growth that I'm looking for.
Yeah, love that, love that.
So I want to.
I want to transition forward toum the.
There's a couple of leaps inyour career and they're major
milestones going from aindividual contributor to a
people manager.
That's one.
And then, you know, that'sphase one.
I want to ask you a little bitabout that.
And then phase two is likepeople leader to a regional
leader.
So you know, on that journey ofgoing from ic individual
contributor to managing a teamin the netherlands, what were,
(28:21):
um, what was that experiencelike?
And and what were the, theunknowns that you, you, you went
through that, you went off.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I didn't expect that yeah, I think for me that was, I
feel, like the biggest sort ofpersonal challenge at this point
.
I was always a strongindividual contributor.
I've always had my goal.
I know what to do to achieve mygoal.
I can manage my journey.
I'm responsible for my ownsuccess.
So being that IC was mystrength.
(28:49):
I think being super successfulin my role also opened up doors
to get, you know, promotions goto that next step.
I remember sitting with mymanager at the time and I wasn't
really sure what I wanted to dowhen it was coming to
promotions, what you want to gointo a team lead role or do you,
you know, want to become moreof an expert in your field?
And I thought to myself, likewhich is the muscle that I feel
like I can start strengthening alittle bit, like what's going
(29:11):
to take me to the next level?
And I felt like peoplemanagement was something I
really didn't have too muchexperience with outside of.
You know the classic at myretail equestrian store I would
have a couple sort of tempsworking for me or just like not
massive global go-to-marketteams that we would have to sort
of manage.
So I think for me, I justreally thought about putting
(29:34):
myself always in my team's shoes.
I've been there, I've done thework.
I know how hard it is and Iknow what it takes to get you to
the next level.
Always try and reflect back,but then look at the team and
think how can I best supportthem to be as successful as I
was?
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And when you're building out your team.
I mean you're a high operator.
I imagine people interviewingwith you it's going to be tough
to reach the qualification to beselected to join the team.
But what are the keycharacteristics, traits, skill
sets that you look for?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I really need someone who's an entrepreneur at least
an entrepreneurial mindsetsomeone who's an entrepreneur,
or at least an entrepreneurialmindset.
I think it depends on the stageof the team and what you're
hiring for.
In my experience, every timeI've been hiring, it's been that
go-to-market team.
So I really need self-starters,people that can put themselves
out there, that have maybe shownsome experience in terms of
(30:28):
dealing with challenges.
But for me, what is moreimportant is what did they do
with those challenges?
What were the outcomes?
So I often ask for examples, ifI would speak into them to try
and vet their experience and seeif it's, if it's going to be a
good fit for my team and what Iexpect in terms of them being a
high performer and then leaningon that accountability if
they've made mistakes in thepast.
(30:49):
I want to see that people arenot afraid to tell me about
their mistakes and what did theydo with those learnings to
apply to the next challenge theyhad, or maybe a next career?
Those are things that I reallylook for.
To be honest, I don't reallydive into numbers.
If you're dealing with someonethat's come from a startup
(31:09):
environment or big tech, I would, of course, ask them their
quotas and make sure that theyare aware of what their goals
were and what they had to do toachieve them.
But I've hired people that werehitting 200% of their quota
month on month, quarter onquarter, and I've also hired
people that really couldn'tbring in a single deal in six
months because of circumstancesthat they were facing.
So I really dig deep, I try andunderstand what those
(31:32):
challenges were and what did thecandidate do with those
challenges to take theiropportunity forward or give
feedback to the organization?
Speaker 2 (31:39):
those things are really important and I think
that goes down to accountabilityand being an entrepreneur,
which is a self-starter yeah,that's a really good point,
because one of the thechallenges and it's a
double-edged sword is a lot ofhiring teams are asking about
your quota attainment what wasyour percentage against quota?
(31:59):
And I want to see how you'veachieved every quarter for the
last two years.
It's really just the icing onthe cake, because the reality is
maybe they're lying.
It's really difficult tovalidate whether they're
truthful or not, and they're agreat marketer saying that
they've overachieved, but alsothere are circumstances where it
(32:22):
wasn't the reps or theindividual's fault for not
hitting their number.
A lot of the times, companieshave got leadership changes, the
quota changes, the marketchanges, et cetera.
I think it's a leadingindicator, but really being able
to look for those underlyingaspects is really important as
well.
Yeah, and just to go one morestep on that, do you have any
(32:47):
golden questions that you ask aspart of an interview process
where you're just really able toextract information that is
going to help you?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
yeah, good question.
I must.
I must think of it so to Iactually go into my interviews
quite conversationally.
Yeah, I don't really have a setsort of template of questions
that I like to ask, so it reallydepends where we go in terms of
the conversation.
Um, if I feel that we're goingmore into a conversation type of
interview, that to me isnormally a good sign, provided
(33:19):
that the candidate is stillquite impactful, gets to the
point and really shares theirmessage.
But if I feel like I need to getmore into the, the questions in
terms of guiding them, um, Ialways lean back to uh,
challenges, success stories,what have you done?
So I dive a little bit deeperinto maybe a previous product
they sold or what it was like,and then I ask them so I want to
(33:42):
hear the biggest deal failure,tell me which deal didn't work.
I really want to understand why.
They can white label it, ofcourse, and not share client
details, for example, but Ireally want to understand what
were the challenges.
And then I would pause them andsay understand that challenge.
Where did it go wrong?
Why do you think Was it?
(34:02):
If they say sales execution,what was the learning from that?
And did you apply that learningin the future deal.
So I would hope that thecandidate could kind of give me
that full picture, because thenI can see that like intellectual
curiosity in themselves, thatself-understanding how did they
apply their challenges?
Sometimes candidates need a bitmore guidance in terms of how
do we ask those questions or howdo I get them to the answer
(34:23):
that I'm looking for.
So that's normally how I framemy interviews.
It's maybe not as classic asnormal interview structures, but
that for me is important.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I think it's a great way.
I'm not a big fan of yourtypical interview type questions
.
You can extract so much, but Ilove your additional layer is
you can extract so much, but Ilove your your you know
additional layer.
I love that example of tell meyour biggest failure because you
can learn so much.
For was it their fault?
Was it not?
Did they take accountability,did they?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
learn are they coachable?
yeah, and I think it alsosometimes, if you are a bit
concerned about candidates,maybe reason for leaving their
current company.
Sometimes it could be becauseof a misclick with management or
maybe they're actually anunderperformer.
But how they answer thatquestion usually paints a bit of
a picture for me of what'sactually going on and and why
(35:10):
they're looking to maybe move onor find their next step.
So it's a bit of a I've got totrust my guts, yeah, when I get
into those sort of conversations.
But if the candidates has thatintellectual curiosity, they
have the ambition, they're anentrepreneur, self-starter they
normally answer to it quite, Ithink, clearly in their response
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
So you've been with DataSnippet for a couple of
years.
Great success individualcontributor building a sales
team.
And then the business, yourmanager, the CEO whoever it
would have been came and had theconversation about you stepping
up again and flying to theother side of the world.
Talk to me about what was thatconversation like and how did it
(35:53):
feel, and what went throughyour mind when you?
Were going to take on thisagain, this new challenge.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, so I actually got.
It was quite a surprise, to behonest.
I knew that Data Snipper waslooking to have more of a
regional presence in APAC.
I did not think that I would betop of mind you know I'm pretty
junior in terms of my career inleading this size of a team,
(36:19):
like being in the size of anorganization.
I would have, I guess, thoughtand this is maybe my like
imposter syndrome kicking inlike there's no ways they would
want me to go over and lead thecompany.
They would hire someoneregionally who knows the market,
knows exactly what's going on.
It probably came well.
It did come from the fact thatI was super successful in my
APAC territories.
(36:39):
I would invest a lot of time inAPAC when I was an account
executive.
I would get up very early inthe morning every single day to
make sure I had enough time tospeak to Australia and New
Zealand and build this market.
When I got promoted to thesales manager position, we
started hiring regional accountexecutives.
So we had a small team inAustralia and we were going to
(36:59):
slowly start hiring in SoutheastAsia.
I kept giving a lot of feedbackto the organization, saying
that I was struggling to managethe team from Amsterdam because
of the time overlap.
You know, it's just.
It was very demanding.
They needed me front and centerwith the clients and one
morning I was actually on PTO.
I was in South Africa having abreak and I got a call from my
manager who the VP at the time,and I thought, oh my God,
(37:20):
something's gone wrong.
He would never phone me onholiday.
I'm freaking out.
Picked up the phone and he waslike I want to open a regional
office and I want you to go andlead it.
What do you think?
And I was a bit speechless, tobe honest.
It hadn't really crossed mymind.
I was like me Okay, so I gaveit some thought.
Okay, so I gave it some thought.
(37:41):
But that's really how it cameto be.
It was very sudden.
You know, datasnip has reallysaid they wanted someone with
you know the tribal knowledge togo over and really stamp our
culture in the new office, makesure that all that knowledge
that I had had selling withinthe region I could share with
the new team when I build andscale it.
(38:02):
So that's kind of how it cameto pass.
It was very unsudden, but yeah,I think that the company was
really excited to have me over.
They felt that I was the rightfit at the time to come.
So, yeah, I obviously said yesbecause here we are.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, absolutely, and I've worked with the asean
market myself for for a longtime and it's it's it's
different to um, to the westernmarket.
So what have been some of thethe biggest learnings that
you've had?
Speaker 1 (38:34):
you know, for for us, um, it's definitely that
localization element, especiallyif you're looking at apac as a
full territory.
What we do in Australia and NewZealand is not going to fit
Japan, it's not going to fitSingapore that's excluding the
rest of Southeast Asia.
Go-to-market strategies need tobe really defined per territory
(38:55):
.
You, from our perspective, needto really consider having
regionalized reps teams at least, because we're definitely our
way of selling is moreconsultative.
We come in as like trustedadvisors to the clients.
So if you don't understandtheir culture, their way of
working, the accounting worldfor us is very different per
(39:17):
territory because of all thedifferent government rules, that
type of thing.
You just got to make sure thatyou've specialised your
go-to-market per region.
Sometimes slowing down, scalingdown, makes more sense than
trying to go with that big bangand doing all the territories at
one go.
So where do you want to focus?
What's going to bring you theeasiest return, with maybe
minimum or minimal changes likelocalisations, like really
(39:40):
making sure the product needs tobe changed, or have you done
enough research for theseterritories?
That is, I think, the maintakeaways.
It's localize, specialize, thatgo to markets and for me, it's
that slow down to speed up.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
When you yeah, just take a pause.
And what I picked up as well isthat you're a big advocate and
believer in development of theteams and those around you.
There's a lot of people thatlisten to this show, that are
aspiring sales leaders, that areon their way up, that are
potentially in a rut orconsidering a career change into
(40:16):
SaaS sales.
What advice would you give toanyone that's got questions
about this industry?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
would you give to anyone that's got questions
about this industry?
You know, if you want to getinto sales in SaaS, it's
fast-paced.
I think I've experiencedfast-pacing in all my sort of
positions within sales, but SaaSspecifically it's quick.
You need to be okay with that.
If you're in a startupenvironment, even more so.
If you like speaking to people,if you like bringing value to
(40:45):
companies, if you are a trueadvocate for technology, then
this is the role for you.
Again, working for startups, Ithink, is very different to
working for big corp or maybeyou know bigger tech.
They've got more establishedprocesses.
In a startup environmentsometimes there's less structure
than you might think you need.
So if you're a very structuredperson, that's great.
(41:06):
You have a big value add to theteam in general.
But very good for your owncareer to be structured.
But if that's something youlean on heavily to be successful
, then you might want to notconsider a startup, or at least
an early phase startup.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
And one thing I don't want to put words in your mouth
, but you've mentionedentrepreneurship,
intrapreneurship as well.
So I also believe that thosethat can I call it operating in
gray and similar to the lack ofprocess, but those that want to
build something above justcoming in for a day job, I think
that those are often greatcandidates as well.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I see SaaS sales as a lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And it's a pretty full-on lifestyle, but it can be
incredibly rewarding, both froma development and an earnings
perspective.
Alex, for those that arelistening and might want to
learn a little bit more aboutDataSnipper and who they are and
what they do, how can they findDataSnipper?
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, so we're online , of course, wwwdatasnippercom.
We have our LinkedIn pages,some of our social medias as
well.
We're very active on LinkedIn,so LinkedIn is really where you
can find the most aboutDataSnipper.
If anyone's curious aboutgetting into the SaaS world,
maybe from a sales perspective,our teams are scaling really
fast and we're always hiring.
So if they want to get a bitmore of an inside information,
(42:24):
they can look me up as well.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
I can give some tips and tricks and how can people
look you up linkedin on linkedin?
Yeah, perfect, perfect, awesome.
Well, look, alex.
It's been incredibly valuable.
I've gotten so much out of this, uh, this conversation.
Thank you for joining us thanksfor having me and, um, yeah,
really looking forward to seeingwhat you do next.
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