Embedding Lived Experience into BCHS

We're talking Lived and Living Experience: what is it, why is it important in a health service, and how is BCHS incorporating it into its day-to-day operations? Hear Senior Leader Insights & Analytics Jo Rasmussen and AOD Peer Worker Ange answer these questions and more as they share a little of their own lived experience in this episode.

Episode Transcript

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This episode of the BCHS podcast talks about mental health and drug and alcohol addiction, so maybe distressing for some listeners. 2 00:00:12,57.65 --> 00:00:13,467.65 I hope I do make a difference. 3 00:00:13,467.65 --> 00:00:20,127.65 I hope I make a difference in the way that they feel heard and seen and that, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel there. 4 00:00:20,127.65 --> 00:00:23,157.65 Um, there is life after addiction. 5 00:00:23,157.65 --> 00:00:26,487.65 And if you're not supported through that, it can be a very lonely road. 6 00:00:26,487.65 --> 00:00:28,167.65 It's very, very lonely. 7 00:00:30,325.35 --> 00:00:35,335.35 Welcome back to the 50th Anniversary podcast of Bendigo Community Health Services. 8 00:00:35,965.35 --> 00:00:43,165.35 We're celebrating half a century of care by catching up with some of our health heroes, as well as sharing bits and pieces from our past. 9 00:00:43,525.35 --> 00:00:45,205.35 Some of which you may not know about. 10 00:00:46,195.35 --> 00:00:56,875.35 We are recording this podcast on Jaja Run Country and pay respect to elders past and present for their continued holding of memories, traditions, culture, and stories. 11 00:00:57,925.35 --> 00:00:58,945.35 I'm Lauren Mitchell. 12 00:00:59,125.35 --> 00:01:01,825.35 I'm a communications officer at BCHS. 13 00:01:01,825.35 --> 00:01:15,555.35 I've really been looking forward to this chat about lived experience with our next guest, Joe and an Joe Rasmussen is Bendigo Community Health Services Senior Leader Insights and Analytics. 14 00:01:16,275.35 --> 00:01:17,655.35 It's a cool title, Joe. 15 00:01:18,105.35 --> 00:01:19,455.35 It is a very cool title. 16 00:01:19,515.35 --> 00:01:20,565.35 Quite excited by it. 17 00:01:21,930.35 --> 00:01:30,150.35 Joe has nearly three decades experience working with data and consumer voices to support organizations in their strategic thinking. 18 00:01:30,990.35 --> 00:01:37,770.35 She's a national award-winning mental health advocate who brings her lived experience of mental illness to her profession. 19 00:01:39,30.35 --> 00:01:48,330.35 Joe has extensive experience in stigma and discrimination, which has included working on the development of the national stigma and discrimination strategy. 20 00:01:49,125.35 --> 00:01:49,815.35 She's amazing. 21 00:01:50,385.35 --> 00:01:50,865.35 Thank you. 22 00:01:52,95.35 --> 00:01:55,530.35 Joey is joined at the desk with the equally amazing Angela. 23 00:01:55,637.01666667 --> 00:01:56,27.01666667 Hi. 24 00:01:57,797.01666667 --> 00:01:58,427.01666667 Hi, Ange. 25 00:01:58,542.01666667 --> 00:02:02,657.01666667 Ange is a peer worker in our alcohol and other drugs non-residential team. 26 00:02:03,47.01666667 --> 00:02:10,157.01666667 She has also worked as a mental health peer worker, a disability support worker, and previously as a cleaner at the hospital. 27 00:02:11,147.01666667 --> 00:02:19,37.01666667 When I asked Ange what she was doing immediately before joining BCHS four years ago, she half joked that she was doing drugs. 28 00:02:20,222.01666667 --> 00:02:34,412.01666667 It is an important experience to note as it has high relevance, not only for this conversation, but for the clients and our supports with Compassion, trust, and I've no doubt lots of the humor her colleagues know and love her for. 29 00:02:34,712.01666667 --> 00:02:34,922.01666667 Yeah. 30 00:02:35,432.01666667 --> 00:02:35,792.01666667 Yay. 31 00:02:35,797.01666667 --> 00:02:36,37.01666667 Yeah. 32 00:02:36,332.01666667 --> 00:02:36,812.01666667 Yeah. 33 00:02:37,22.01666667 --> 00:02:38,222.01666667 Welcome Joe and Angie. 34 00:02:38,222.01666667 --> 00:02:40,742.01666667 It's so very lovely to have you both here. 35 00:02:41,612.01666667 --> 00:02:43,622.01666667 We're here to talk about lived experience. 36 00:02:44,792.01666667 --> 00:03:08,807.01666667 What is it? Why is it important and how is BCHS incorporating it into its day-to-day operations? Plus, how can other organizations follow suit for the good of community? And if one of you, our listeners, sees yourself using your own life experience in something like a peer worker role, Joe and Ange may just inspire you. 37 00:03:10,277.01666667 --> 00:03:15,422.01666667 Joe Rasmussen, what is lived experience? Yeah, good question Lauren. 38 00:03:15,482.01666667 --> 00:03:17,42.01666667 It's a very broad term. 39 00:03:17,492.01666667 --> 00:03:29,952.01666667 So essentially it means someone who has a personal experience of an event might be a health condition, it might be a traumatic situation that's occurred or life experience. 40 00:03:30,942.01666667 --> 00:03:39,222.01666667 It also includes not just the personal experience, but also experience of caring for someone that's going through those events. 41 00:03:39,222.01666667 --> 00:03:41,52.01666667 So if you think of a health condition. 42 00:03:41,512.01666667 --> 00:03:42,742.01666667 Let's talk mental illness. 43 00:03:43,222.01666667 --> 00:03:52,642.01666667 So we've got a person who's living with the condition, but could also include the family member, friends, someone else that is supporting them going through that. 44 00:03:52,972.01666667 --> 00:03:55,767.01666667 So that is all encompassing of lived experience. 45 00:03:56,247.01666667 --> 00:03:56,367.01666667 I. 46 00:03:56,577.01666667 --> 00:04:00,717.01666667 There's also lots of other terms that can be used in that place that people might recognize. 47 00:04:00,717.01666667 --> 00:04:12,567.01666667 So we talk from a personal lived experience that people can be called consumers and those that are working from the supporting aspect, carers or supporters, family, friends. 48 00:04:12,567.01666667 --> 00:04:14,7.01666667 So there's lots of terms out there. 49 00:04:14,397.01666667 --> 00:04:14,847.01666667 Thank you. 50 00:04:15,357.01666667 --> 00:04:27,927.01666667 for me, lived experience as a term being used in a professional sense, it seems to have entered the vernacular in recent years, but chatting before this episode, you were telling me the concept has quite a rich history. 51 00:04:28,737.01666667 --> 00:04:30,567.01666667 It has a, very long history. 52 00:04:31,17.01666667 --> 00:04:45,977.01666667 It's come from the advocacy avenue and that can date back to the early 18 hundreds worldwide, but within Australia lived experience or consumer representation as it was termed back then actually came from the. 53 00:04:47,642.01666667 --> 00:04:50,62.01666667 Ending of people being held in asylum. 54 00:04:50,942.01666667 --> 00:05:00,732.01666667 So it's very much started in the mental health sector and what we learned, and, I had this story told to me by someone who actually went through this experience. 55 00:05:00,732.01666667 --> 00:05:08,82.01666667 So when they started to decommission asylum, they, you know, closed them down. 56 00:05:08,352.01666667 --> 00:05:14,142.01666667 People who were housed within the asylums were then put out in community, in houses. 57 00:05:15,312.01666667 --> 00:05:23,552.01666667 Now it was done from the perspective of the psychiatrist, the nurses, the doctors that were in that, who saying, look, asylums aren't the best place for people. 58 00:05:23,612.01666667 --> 00:05:24,842.01666667 They were expensive. 59 00:05:24,962.01666667 --> 00:05:30,782.01666667 There was the human rights and the abuses were coming to light that some of the asylums, uh, had. 60 00:05:31,142.01666667 --> 00:05:45,62.01666667 So yes, it seemed like a nice thing to do to then put people out in the community, but they hadn't planned for how big a change that would be for people that had been in a really safe and isolated space where they didn't have to look about, you know. 61 00:05:45,942.01666667 --> 00:05:47,892.01666667 Making tea, paying bills. 62 00:05:47,892.01666667 --> 00:05:54,222.01666667 So all of a sudden they lost all their friends that they had, and they're out in this really broad, wide community. 63 00:05:54,552.01666667 --> 00:06:01,512.01666667 There was actually no community mental health services there for them to access so they were very isolated, and of course it didn't go well. 64 00:06:02,172.01666667 --> 00:06:02,262.01666667 Right. 65 00:06:02,292.01666667 --> 00:06:12,912.01666667 And so as that rolled out through different asylums, they then went, well, maybe the best thing we need to do is talk to the people that are being housed within the asylums and what their needs are. 66 00:06:13,522.01666667 --> 00:06:19,402.01666667 I had a friend who had gone through this process and explained that he was able to then sit with an advisory. 67 00:06:19,542.01666667 --> 00:06:26,382.01666667 Capacity and say, these are the needs that we need in order to make it a successful reintegration, the supports we need. 68 00:06:26,892.01666667 --> 00:06:30,702.01666667 And a very first lived experience roles came from that. 69 00:06:31,182.01666667 --> 00:06:31,272.01666667 Right. 70 00:06:31,572.01666667 --> 00:06:32,352.01666667 Uh, yeah. 71 00:06:32,352.01666667 --> 00:06:32,682.01666667 Yeah. 72 00:06:32,682.01666667 --> 00:06:39,252.01666667 It seems unfathomable that they weren't asked, but of course that's still happening today, isn't it? It is. 73 00:06:39,342.01666667 --> 00:06:39,822.01666667 Yeah. 74 00:06:39,822.01666667 --> 00:06:39,882.01666667 Yeah. 75 00:06:40,602.01666667 --> 00:06:48,42.01666667 BCHS has formalized lived experience as the first of its five organizational values for 20 25, 20 27. 76 00:06:48,342.01666667 --> 00:07:00,862.01666667 But it's taken us a while to get here as well, hasn't it? It has, it's been a journey and I probably just wanna note that when I talk about lived experience, that is a terminology that we're talking about someone's past experience. 77 00:07:01,282.01666667 --> 00:07:07,102.01666667 The full wording is lived and living experience so that we encapsulate people that are currently living. 78 00:07:07,412.01666667 --> 00:07:12,542.01666667 With whether it be a health condition, a disability, or going through the experiences that we've talked about. 79 00:07:12,872.01666667 --> 00:07:21,392.01666667 So I just wanted to note that when I'm talking about lived experience, I'm not excluding those people that are currently living with whatever circumstances. 80 00:07:21,722.01666667 --> 00:07:25,382.01666667 It's just somewhat easier to just call it lived experience. 81 00:07:25,382.01666667 --> 00:07:25,442.01666667 Yeah. 82 00:07:26,597.01666667 --> 00:07:27,107.01666667 Thank you. 83 00:07:27,422.01666667 --> 00:07:31,257.01666667 So tell us about the progression of this within BCHS. 84 00:07:32,442.01666667 --> 00:07:49,112.01666667 Yeah, so we have had lived experience within the service for a few years now, we have lots of roles where lived experience is a component of those roles, but it's never really been identified as a designated lived experience role. 85 00:07:49,742.01666667 --> 00:07:54,872.01666667 And then I think you were one of the first ones to come across, weren't you, Angie? Designated peer work role. 86 00:07:54,877.01666667 --> 00:07:54,897.01666667 Yeah. 87 00:07:55,562.01666667 --> 00:07:55,862.01666667 Yeah. 88 00:07:55,862.01666667 --> 00:07:56,642.01666667 And Head to Health. 89 00:07:56,642.01666667 --> 00:07:58,52.01666667 When Head to Health was up and running. 90 00:07:58,52.01666667 --> 00:08:01,982.01666667 And in the beginning of Covid, think Joe helped set that up. 91 00:08:01,982.01666667 --> 00:08:05,672.01666667 That was, um, a designated peer role, which was really great. 92 00:08:05,752.01666667 --> 00:08:10,862.01666667 Yeah, it identified that there is lots of work to do in this space. 93 00:08:11,262.01666667 --> 00:08:32,632.01666667 It's good to have the want to put lived experience roles within an organization, but what it highlighted was that there is quite a bit of work that needs to be taken beforehand and then different levels of support, and other changes to policies, procedures, et cetera, that needs to happen to make those roles successful. 94 00:08:33,322.01666667 --> 00:08:38,552.01666667 And at that stage we didn't have as much as we do now in those areas. 95 00:08:38,642.01666667 --> 00:08:43,472.01666667 So we are evolving and I mean, you can see this going a lot further. 96 00:08:44,162.01666667 --> 00:08:48,512.01666667 Within the organization as well, can't you? Even up to board level? Absolutely. 97 00:08:48,872.01666667 --> 00:08:57,732.01666667 So now that it is in our strategic plan, which is awesome there is absolute buy-in from all levels of our organization that this is important. 98 00:08:58,332.01666667 --> 00:09:10,392.01666667 Um, part of my role is then putting in some strategies, the supporting requirements to make this lived experience roles effective, purposeless safe, and that we support the workforce properly. 99 00:09:10,962.01666667 --> 00:09:12,912.01666667 I'm not the only one doing work on it. 100 00:09:12,942.01666667 --> 00:09:17,172.01666667 We've got other people, executive director of community partnerships integration. 101 00:09:17,172.01666667 --> 00:09:21,702.01666667 Dale is looking at engagement of our community members, consumers, and carers. 102 00:09:22,2.01666667 --> 00:09:28,632.01666667 So there's really lots of people that are looking at how we embed lived experience across our organization. 103 00:09:28,632.01666667 --> 00:09:28,992.01666667 So. 104 00:09:29,182.01666667 --> 00:09:30,892.01666667 Which is really exciting. 105 00:09:31,702.01666667 --> 00:09:35,722.01666667 Um, we are not alone in taking a gradual path within this space. 106 00:09:35,752.01666667 --> 00:09:42,172.01666667 Joe, you worked as a consultant to help other organizations embed lived and living experience within their operations. 107 00:09:42,502.01666667 --> 00:09:51,637.01666667 What are the common challenges that you saw? Yeah, look, absolutely, we are not alone in where we are within the rollout of lived experience. 108 00:09:51,937.01666667 --> 00:09:56,197.01666667 So I've worked with a number of organizations and it's, it's exactly the same. 109 00:09:56,677.01666667 --> 00:09:59,347.01666667 There's a commitment to do it, but there's not an. 110 00:09:59,632.01666667 --> 00:10:04,642.01666667 Really any off the shelf products that says, this is how you do it and this is what you need to do. 111 00:10:05,2.01666667 --> 00:10:15,292.01666667 We have a lot of high level frameworks that say, these are the types of things you need to look at and focus on, but it doesn't give you the, here's the steps, 1, 2, 3, to be able to make that successful. 112 00:10:15,682.01666667 --> 00:10:27,652.01666667 So as a consultant, that was where I've come into lots of organizations and said, okay, based on these frameworks, these are the steps you need to take and really help organization do the practical things that they need to do. 113 00:10:27,842.01666667 --> 00:10:32,972.01666667 To make the integration of lived experience roles within their organization successful. 114 00:10:33,902.01666667 --> 00:10:33,932.01666667 Mm. 115 00:10:33,932.01666667 --> 00:10:39,932.01666667 I think having you in this position at BCHS is really enabling us to walk the talk of this. 116 00:10:40,222.01666667 --> 00:10:50,662.01666667 You are proud to personally bring your experience of mental illness into your profession, and how are you able to do that within your role here? Yeah, it's, it's a good one. 117 00:10:50,872.01666667 --> 00:10:51,832.01666667 That's a good question. 118 00:10:52,72.01666667 --> 00:11:02,32.01666667 Um, you know, it's, it's been an evolution for me on trying to understand where my skillset and my experience are best placed within an organization. 119 00:11:02,32.01666667 --> 00:11:02,452.01666667 So I. 120 00:11:02,887.01666667 --> 00:11:12,367.01666667 When I first started, I, I had actually no idea that you could use your experiences of living with a mental illness to help services deliver better services. 121 00:11:12,367.01666667 --> 00:11:15,727.01666667 And so when I started out, it was like, this was really exciting. 122 00:11:15,727.01666667 --> 00:11:25,827.01666667 I can actually make things better for the people that are coming through behind me, which is my purpose, my goal in life is just to make things better for those that are entering the system now. 123 00:11:26,367.01666667 --> 00:11:34,137.01666667 Um, but what I recognized as I started to do this is that I can't work with clients every day. 124 00:11:34,167.01666667 --> 00:11:36,897.01666667 It's just, it, it takes a toll on me. 125 00:11:37,257.01666667 --> 00:11:50,427.01666667 But the previous work experience that I've done sitting in management roles, I could see that there was an opportunity to sit at a higher level with organizations or come in as a consultant to provide the strategic advice. 126 00:11:50,817.01666667 --> 00:11:58,737.01666667 And so now running an insights and analytics team where I look at data and lived experience, and those two aren't mutually exclusive. 127 00:11:59,277.01666667 --> 00:11:59,727.01666667 Um. 128 00:12:00,47.01666667 --> 00:12:06,317.01666667 I can now look at data and tell it from a, a consumer's perspective, it's the data storytelling. 129 00:12:06,587.01666667 --> 00:12:12,377.01666667 But I can also sit within the executive team and say, big picture thinking, this is what we need to, to look at. 130 00:12:12,737.01666667 --> 00:12:16,727.01666667 And it's just built on all the different roles that I've had in the part. 131 00:12:17,237.01666667 --> 00:12:19,67.01666667 But I also want to make sure that. 132 00:12:19,237.01666667 --> 00:12:23,17.01666667 The people who are doing the client facing roles are really well supported. 133 00:12:23,17.01666667 --> 00:12:28,187.01666667 And I take my hat off to our lived experience workforce, the work that they're able to do. 134 00:12:28,637.01666667 --> 00:12:30,47.01666667 Uh, it's just amazing. 135 00:12:30,887.01666667 --> 00:12:30,977.01666667 Yeah. 136 00:12:30,977.01666667 --> 00:12:34,37.01666667 Um, and that does bring us to you very nicely. 137 00:12:34,377.01666667 --> 00:12:38,997.01666667 And you're one of three dedicated lived experience peer workers with us. 138 00:12:39,57.01666667 --> 00:12:43,857.01666667 We also have people within our child and family services and at Headspace, Bendigo. 139 00:12:44,762.01666667 --> 00:12:56,842.01666667 What motivated you to come on board in this capacity? Ah, originally when I saw the advertisement for this role, I was like, oh geez, that's kind of just what I do in my normal life. 140 00:12:56,842.01666667 --> 00:13:06,202.01666667 Is this really a job? Like I'm just supporting people talking to them and, I hadn't actually heard of what a peer worker was at the time, and I applied and I got the job. 141 00:13:06,202.01666667 --> 00:13:18,372.01666667 And then, um, once I got in, I hate to be cliche and say I felt so blessed that I was able to work with people on this level, I just, the more I did it, the more I enjoyed it and I felt like it's very rewarding. 142 00:13:18,432.01666667 --> 00:13:19,2.01666667 Um. 143 00:13:19,377.01666667 --> 00:13:19,737.01666667 Yeah. 144 00:13:19,737.01666667 --> 00:13:20,967.01666667 And that was four years ago. 145 00:13:21,117.01666667 --> 00:13:22,257.01666667 That was four years ago. 146 00:13:22,527.01666667 --> 00:13:22,737.01666667 Yeah. 147 00:13:22,767.01666667 --> 00:13:29,217.01666667 So what does your day-to-day role look like today? Or is it different every day? It kind of is different every day. 148 00:13:29,487.01666667 --> 00:13:31,647.01666667 I look after people on our wait list. 149 00:13:31,647.01666667 --> 00:13:33,207.01666667 Like I support people on our wait list. 150 00:13:33,207.01666667 --> 00:13:38,307.01666667 Sometimes they can be waiting like several weeks before they see a, uh, counselor. 151 00:13:38,357.01666667 --> 00:13:45,852.01666667 So I will call them in the meantime and offer them some bridging support and they don't have to accept my support but if they're offer for a chat, that's great. 152 00:13:45,852.01666667 --> 00:13:49,662.01666667 Or I can go meet them somewhere, go for a walk or have a coffee. 153 00:13:50,197.01666667 --> 00:13:52,407.01666667 We can, help them get food. 154 00:13:52,407.01666667 --> 00:13:58,737.01666667 I can refer 'em to the right places or take them to these appointments if they need someone to, you know, help them get through the door. 155 00:13:59,437.01666667 --> 00:14:01,567.01666667 We run a group a Skills for Life Group. 156 00:14:01,867.01666667 --> 00:14:06,307.01666667 We help facilitate that where people come once a week and just each week's different. 157 00:14:06,307.01666667 --> 00:14:07,472.01666667 It's a different topic each week. 158 00:14:07,662.01666667 --> 00:14:09,7.01666667 Just a place for people to. 159 00:14:09,472.01666667 --> 00:14:13,582.01666667 Connect with others in similar situations, safely in a safe space. 160 00:14:14,542.01666667 --> 00:14:18,862.01666667 So these are people who are reaching out for our alcohol and other drug services. 161 00:14:18,862.01666667 --> 00:14:26,212.01666667 So I'd imagine it's a really big time in their life and if you make that decision that you're gonna seek some help, but then you've got that bit of waiting time Absolutely. 162 00:14:26,212.01666667 --> 00:14:28,222.01666667 Before you actually see a clinician. 163 00:14:28,312.01666667 --> 00:14:28,672.01666667 Yeah. 164 00:14:28,882.01666667 --> 00:14:31,522.01666667 That's the gap that you feel, is that right? Absolutely. 165 00:14:31,522.01666667 --> 00:14:31,642.01666667 Yeah. 166 00:14:31,732.01666667 --> 00:14:34,792.01666667 And I think most times they do want to speak. 167 00:14:35,47.01666667 --> 00:14:37,417.01666667 Because as you said, that's you're reaching out now. 168 00:14:37,687.01666667 --> 00:14:37,987.01666667 Yeah. 169 00:14:38,17.01666667 --> 00:14:44,737.01666667 Which might have taken them 20 years to finally build out the courage to do and um, so I Great. 170 00:14:44,737.01666667 --> 00:14:45,277.01666667 I love it. 171 00:14:47,287.01666667 --> 00:14:52,267.01666667 What do you think's been your best? Stay on the job? Uh oh gosh. 172 00:14:55,297.01666667 --> 00:15:02,57.01666667 Um, I did help a lady, through the process of getting, um, her teeth pulled out and getting dentures put in, so, mm, and that was quite a long process. 173 00:15:02,57.01666667 --> 00:15:09,887.01666667 Like, we would go for an appointment in Castle Maine once a week for a few months, and the day that she actually got her teeth and she was crying, just so happy. 174 00:15:09,887.01666667 --> 00:15:12,47.01666667 I think that was really a highlight for me. 175 00:15:12,47.01666667 --> 00:15:16,487.01666667 Like she was so happy and I think, um. 176 00:15:16,517.01666667 --> 00:15:19,97.01666667 You know, like it's such a huge thing. 177 00:15:19,147.01666667 --> 00:15:27,757.01666667 For some people it might not be, but for her, she's waited 30 years to do this and it was such a life changing event and I was just very glad that I got to be there. 178 00:15:27,937.01666667 --> 00:15:29,77.01666667 Yeah, you were there for it. 179 00:15:29,77.01666667 --> 00:15:29,902.01666667 It was wonderful. 180 00:15:29,952.01666667 --> 00:15:31,47.01666667 That is a good day. 181 00:15:31,107.01666667 --> 00:15:32,877.01666667 Yeah, it was a really good day actually. 182 00:15:32,877.01666667 --> 00:15:33,207.01666667 Yeah. 183 00:15:33,307.01666667 --> 00:15:35,767.01666667 I'd imagine there's some challenges along the way as well. 184 00:15:35,807.01666667 --> 00:15:41,497.01666667 What are some of the more challenging moments for you? I just kind of actually go with the flow a lot. 185 00:15:41,677.01666667 --> 00:15:43,177.01666667 Like I'm pretty good. 186 00:15:43,227.01666667 --> 00:15:46,197.01666667 I take breaks if I need a break or I will. 187 00:15:48,307.01666667 --> 00:15:51,787.01666667 If I need to debrief with somebody, I'll debrief. 188 00:15:52,207.01666667 --> 00:15:56,77.01666667 Of course, safety sometimes, like you go to people's houses they haven't met before. 189 00:15:56,77.01666667 --> 00:15:59,107.01666667 we have risk management in place for that. 190 00:15:59,557.01666667 --> 00:16:01,117.01666667 But I'm, I'm pretty good. 191 00:16:02,587.01666667 --> 00:16:10,172.01666667 Like, I'm, you are, you know, look, it's really important that if you're in this role, that you've got good supports around you. 192 00:16:10,472.01666667 --> 00:16:13,292.01666667 You understand how to manage your condition. 193 00:16:13,352.01666667 --> 00:16:15,962.01666667 'cause everyone's different in what they need. 194 00:16:15,962.01666667 --> 00:16:27,402.01666667 So before you come into these roles, it's important that you've, you've figured out what your needs are, recognize some of your triggers, what things so that you can actually put your hand up and say. 195 00:16:28,407.01666667 --> 00:16:37,827.01666667 I actually just need to take some time or, you know, whatever it is that you can identify that you need something to, to give you a little bit of additional support. 196 00:16:38,127.01666667 --> 00:16:43,102.0166667 Doesn't happen every days, but there are occasions where working with a client, their story just hits. 197 00:16:43,977.0166667 --> 00:16:44,907.0166667 Your story. 198 00:16:45,392.0166667 --> 00:16:52,962.0166667 I've done a lot of presentations in the past to consumer groups and carers and, a lot of them want to come and tell their story and talk to me. 199 00:16:53,382.0166667 --> 00:17:07,782.0166667 And there's been some traumatic stories that I've heard and I remember just going and sitting in the car and just sort of bawling my eyes out because it was just, you know, very close to the experiences I've, I've had, but able to put my hand up and say, that was a tough day. 200 00:17:08,442.0166667 --> 00:17:09,372.0166667 I might need a day off. 201 00:17:09,422.0166667 --> 00:17:17,792.0166667 For me it's either getting out, going for a bush walk, you know, I might take the next day off, just reset myself and then continue on and be okay. 202 00:17:17,792.0166667 --> 00:17:22,382.0166667 But it's, it's the ability to be able to identify that that is really important in this work. 203 00:17:23,102.0166667 --> 00:17:23,192.0166667 Mm-hmm. 204 00:17:23,432.0166667 --> 00:17:28,592.0166667 And I think most of my challenges have actually come not from clients, it's been internal. 205 00:17:29,552.0166667 --> 00:17:39,452.0166667 Having the title lived experience worker, and I've spoken to Joe about this before, you kind of put a target on your own back with saying like, I'm an addict and everybody features that. 206 00:17:39,452.0166667 --> 00:17:41,852.0166667 And that was something I personally had to get used to. 207 00:17:41,852.0166667 --> 00:17:58,472.0166667 It wasn't everyone else's problem for me thinking that you are judging me, but I was putting myself out there and I don't think I realized that's what I'd be doing in the beginning, that I was labeling myself this certain, um, thing. 208 00:17:59,132.0166667 --> 00:18:00,302.0166667 So I've had to learn. 209 00:18:00,302.0166667 --> 00:18:06,482.0166667 That's probably been my biggest challenge, is learning how to not worry if people accept me for that or not. 210 00:18:06,482.0166667 --> 00:18:06,542.0166667 Yeah. 211 00:18:06,602.0166667 --> 00:18:09,932.0166667 Like I'm still a wonderful person and like, don't judge me, please. 212 00:18:10,652.0166667 --> 00:18:10,742.0166667 Sure. 213 00:18:11,732.0166667 --> 00:18:13,832.0166667 That's part of why you're here, isn't it? Yeah. 214 00:18:13,862.0166667 --> 00:18:14,462.0166667 Yes. 215 00:18:14,492.0166667 --> 00:18:14,732.0166667 Yeah. 216 00:18:15,442.0166667 --> 00:18:21,457.0166667 So what was your pathway into the role and like, is there a formal qualification to become a peer worker? Yeah. 217 00:18:22,237.0166667 --> 00:18:26,677.0166667 Well, at the time I was doing a diploma in community services. 218 00:18:26,737.0166667 --> 00:18:29,527.0166667 I'd just finished that and started a diploma in mental health. 219 00:18:29,527.0166667 --> 00:18:34,927.0166667 So I was doing that when I got the role, but I hadn't actually completed either diploma at that time. 220 00:18:35,617.0166667 --> 00:18:41,857.0166667 Um, and then there's a few like short courses you can do with certain organizations on peer work. 221 00:18:42,187.0166667 --> 00:18:48,517.0166667 But now we are doing a real qualification with peer work in the title. 222 00:18:48,780.35 --> 00:19:07,900.35 It's important, you know, we were within the lived experience space when we think back to the 1960s and seventies when we were talking about the asylums closing, and we started the movement and we started looking at the roles, the progression of where that's coming to the point now that we have. 223 00:19:08,695.35 --> 00:19:17,455.35 One qualification that's out there that's specific to mental health, but we are looking at, you know, going towards professionalization within these roles. 224 00:19:17,505.35 --> 00:19:22,995.35 And hopefully it's an expansion of that course to not just be mental health specific that it can be. 225 00:19:23,745.35 --> 00:19:32,925.35 Hopefully community health specific or, you know, broader health specific, because it does give you some of the fundamentals that you need to understand in order to do the role. 226 00:19:33,15.35 --> 00:19:42,615.35 So, and when Joe, when is it advised not to pursue a lived experience role? Yeah, it's really, that's a good question too. 227 00:19:43,215.35 --> 00:19:45,675.35 Um, look, I've seen this a lot where people, you know. 228 00:19:45,880.35 --> 00:19:55,930.35 It's a great thought where you feel like you've lived experience, and everybody in this sector wants to come in to make it easy and better for others that are using the services. 229 00:19:56,170.35 --> 00:20:05,20.35 So there's a lot of good intent in there, but until you start to do the role, you don't quite know whether you can, it's a fit for you. 230 00:20:05,70.35 --> 00:20:11,130.35 Yeah, there's lots of other ways that you can use your lived experience, so it doesn't have to be within these direct client facing roles. 231 00:20:11,130.35 --> 00:20:13,800.35 We've got lots of advisory positions out there now. 232 00:20:14,100.35 --> 00:20:18,990.35 Roles like mine that are more management strategic levels, like there's lots of opportunities. 233 00:20:19,40.35 --> 00:20:19,260.35 All. 234 00:20:19,490.35 --> 00:20:19,780.35 Okay. 235 00:20:19,970.35 --> 00:20:20,260.35 Yeah. 236 00:20:20,385.35 --> 00:20:24,705.35 I've heard you use the analogy of being on the plane and getting those safety messages. 237 00:20:25,125.35 --> 00:20:25,725.35 That's right. 238 00:20:25,755.35 --> 00:20:26,25.35 Yeah. 239 00:20:26,25.35 --> 00:20:27,585.35 It's exactly like that. 240 00:20:27,585.35 --> 00:20:30,975.35 We, we have to look after ourselves first and foremost. 241 00:20:30,975.35 --> 00:20:35,805.35 So yeah, using that plane analogy, we put the oxygen on before we can help others. 242 00:20:36,135.35 --> 00:20:38,325.35 We have to do exactly the same for ourselves. 243 00:20:38,325.35 --> 00:20:41,895.35 Are we in a position that we can take on the additional. 244 00:20:41,985.35 --> 00:20:47,415.35 And I call it emotional labor because you know, you have to manage your emotions, your feelings. 245 00:20:47,415.35 --> 00:20:56,325.35 When you are hearing these stories and, and working with clients who, you know, this, this might be the very first time that they are reaching out for support. 246 00:20:56,325.35 --> 00:21:01,545.35 They may be currently living in a, in a very traumatic and stressful environment. 247 00:21:01,545.35 --> 00:21:02,235.35 You are hearing. 248 00:21:02,685.35 --> 00:21:06,225.35 Lots of different stories as part of your role. 249 00:21:06,585.35 --> 00:21:19,75.35 And so yeah, if, if you don't have your oxygen mask on, you are not looking after yourself, the risk is that you'll burn out and, and historically looking at the data, that is what happens. 250 00:21:19,75.35 --> 00:21:22,105.35 People come in, they last these roles for two to three years. 251 00:21:23,125.35 --> 00:21:32,755.35 And I, I believe that's predominantly because the support structures, the supervision, the mentoring, the organization just wasn't able to provide that support. 252 00:21:33,115.35 --> 00:21:33,205.35 Mm-hmm. 253 00:21:33,295.35 --> 00:21:40,585.35 Um, you know, one-on-one vis supervision from a person with lived experience to be able to say, how are you traveling? Mm-hmm. 254 00:21:40,585.35 --> 00:21:42,655.35 It sounds like we are catching up. 255 00:21:42,925.35 --> 00:21:45,405.35 This question, may be obsolete. 256 00:21:45,405.35 --> 00:21:56,985.35 I hope that it is, or a little bit cynical, but how do we as a society as a whole ensure that these lived experience roles are not tokenistic? A lot of it, I think, comes down to education. 257 00:21:56,985.35 --> 00:21:57,15.35 I. 258 00:21:57,750.35 --> 00:22:04,620.35 And it's not education for the, the lived experience workforce, it's for the rest of the organization to understand what the roles entail. 259 00:22:05,320.35 --> 00:22:12,850.35 A lot of people think that in these roles we just tell our story every day to clients, and in fact, it's the opposite. 260 00:22:13,90.35 --> 00:22:22,510.35 Most times meeting with a client and Andrew will be able to back me up here, is just to say that you've got the experience is enough for them to be able to say, oh, okay, here's someone. 261 00:22:23,20.35 --> 00:22:23,740.35 That gets it. 262 00:22:24,220.35 --> 00:22:26,680.35 I, I can form a bit of trust, so yeah. 263 00:22:26,680.35 --> 00:22:33,520.35 If the organization and other staff don't know your role and what the expectations are, I can make it really hard. 264 00:22:34,180.35 --> 00:22:41,920.35 Um, there has been times where organizations have put lived experience roles on and then haven't recognized that as an expertise. 265 00:22:41,920.35 --> 00:22:42,820.35 It's a skillset. 266 00:22:43,360.35 --> 00:22:45,670.35 We do have additional skills. 267 00:22:46,240.35 --> 00:22:50,740.35 Other than our story that helps us work with clients effectively and with purpose. 268 00:22:51,460.35 --> 00:22:59,470.35 Um, but we have seen that organizations have gone, okay, you can be an admin person, you can be a, you know, a just do phone calls. 269 00:23:00,250.35 --> 00:23:04,60.35 We are not going to let you meet with clients because you don't have the skills. 270 00:23:04,60.35 --> 00:23:06,100.35 You know, there's been that thinking in the past. 271 00:23:06,100.35 --> 00:23:06,190.35 Mm-hmm. 272 00:23:06,515.35 --> 00:23:20,305.35 And I'm really glad that they, you know, that we are evolving to the point where, there's lots of peer workers roles now across the health sector who do work with clients and are actually being used with their expertise in mind. 273 00:23:20,335.35 --> 00:23:20,395.35 Yeah. 274 00:23:21,235.35 --> 00:23:28,45.35 Um, Andrew, I know that you are really a very valued member of the team amongst your colleagues and your clients. 275 00:23:28,405.35 --> 00:23:37,950.35 Um, what difference do you feel you make to the people that you work with? Where might they be without you? Um, oh gosh, I hope I do make a difference. 276 00:23:37,950.35 --> 00:23:44,610.35 I hope I make a difference in the way that they feel heard and seen and that, there can be a light at the end of the tunnel there. 277 00:23:44,610.35 --> 00:23:47,640.35 Um, there is life after addiction. 278 00:23:47,640.35 --> 00:23:50,970.35 And if you're not supported through that, it can be a very lonely road. 279 00:23:50,970.35 --> 00:23:52,650.35 It's very, very lonely. 280 00:23:52,650.35 --> 00:23:57,570.35 So I hope I can be someone for them that they can call if they need to, or. 281 00:23:59,745.35 --> 00:24:11,145.35 Yeah, well look, we're we're often told when we had these diagnosis or we have these experiences that you know you won't work or this is your life forevermore. 282 00:24:11,820.35 --> 00:24:18,960.35 Hope, as Andrew's alluded to, is, is the biggest thing that we provide just by saying we've been there. 283 00:24:19,470.35 --> 00:24:20,760.35 Whatever you want to do. 284 00:24:20,910.35 --> 00:24:23,30.35 Let's work on helping you get there. 285 00:24:23,60.35 --> 00:24:27,350.35 Like, you don't have to be restricted, you are not your illness, you're not your diagnosis. 286 00:24:27,950.35 --> 00:24:28,820.35 You are a person. 287 00:24:28,940.35 --> 00:24:38,935.35 And, and see that, and we, and by seeing that, we're hopeful that that gives them the hope to be able to go, okay, I do wanna go back and get a job, or I do want to do this, or Yeah. 288 00:24:38,960.35 --> 00:24:39,800.35 I am worth it. 289 00:24:39,920.35 --> 00:24:40,220.35 Yeah. 290 00:24:40,580.35 --> 00:24:42,655.35 That's, that's the, yeah, absolutely. 291 00:24:43,475.35 --> 00:24:59,580.35 Do we have any data or statistics on that timeframe between people seeking help and waiting to receive that formal care, you know, without a role like yours are people at the risk of not following through with that? I think there is a risk, I don't know the data Joe, but. 292 00:25:00,445.35 --> 00:25:10,405.35 Anecdotally we know that if someone is engaging with someone while they're on the wait list, checking in with them, having the conversation that they do stay engaged. 293 00:25:10,765.35 --> 00:25:20,910.35 Um, they can ask the questions, what is this gonna look like? Because it's overwhelming to make that first step into a service in particular, if you've had so much stigma. 294 00:25:20,910.35 --> 00:25:25,80.35 Stigma and discrimination judgment when you've tried to do that before. 295 00:25:25,470.35 --> 00:25:29,940.35 So having Anang, having those conversations can say, no, this is a really good service. 296 00:25:29,940.35 --> 00:25:31,680.35 This is what's gonna happen next. 297 00:25:32,310.35 --> 00:25:35,160.35 Do you want me to give you a call next week? Yeah, that'd be great. 298 00:25:35,160.35 --> 00:25:35,220.35 Yeah. 299 00:25:35,610.35 --> 00:25:37,140.35 Have things changed? Okay. 300 00:25:37,140.35 --> 00:25:39,270.35 We might bump you up the list a little bit more. 301 00:25:40,195.35 --> 00:25:41,575.35 You are being valued. 302 00:25:41,755.35 --> 00:25:45,775.35 You know, it's not just, here you are on a list and we'll see you in eight weeks time. 303 00:25:46,405.35 --> 00:25:46,495.35 Mm-hmm. 304 00:25:46,496.35 --> 00:25:48,150.35 It's, you know, we wanna make sure you're okay while you're waiting. 305 00:25:48,150.35 --> 00:25:48,510.35 Mm-hmm. 306 00:25:48,895.35 --> 00:25:51,895.35 And that's even before you get to step foot into our door. 307 00:25:51,945.35 --> 00:26:09,275.35 And how do you think we can support people to thrive within a lived experience role within an organization? Uh, well, I'm very hopeful at the moment with what's happening in our organization we're, working on some frameworks and guidelines for staff and the lived experience role itself. 308 00:26:10,415.35 --> 00:26:16,915.35 And I think, as Jo said before, the more educated that all of us are as an organization, a company the better. 309 00:26:19,135.35 --> 00:26:34,195.35 And do you have any advice to anyone who wants to use their life experience to become a peer worker as you have done? Yeah, I think it's wonderful and I think as Joe said before, firstly you need to make sure that you are okay to step into a role like this. 310 00:26:34,675.35 --> 00:26:43,85.35 Because not every day is easy, and if you don't have a handle on your triggers or the right coping strategies in place, you're gonna have a hard time. 311 00:26:43,85.35 --> 00:26:43,205.35 Mm-hmm. 312 00:26:43,505.35 --> 00:26:47,885.35 Like it's, um, or if you don't have the supports around you, I'm very lucky. 313 00:26:47,935.35 --> 00:26:58,735.35 So what's kept you here? What keeps you coming into work? Well, we are growing and I really want to see what happens in the lived experience role, but mostly I just love my face-to-face contact with my clients. 314 00:26:58,735.35 --> 00:27:00,415.35 Like I like their client contact. 315 00:27:00,760.35 --> 00:27:02,260.35 So they've really kept me here, to be honest. 316 00:27:03,550.35 --> 00:27:08,980.35 And how different would you say your life is now compared to 5, 6, 7 years ago. 317 00:27:09,280.35 --> 00:27:19,325.35 And how has your living experience today become part of your peer worker role? Life's a lot different now than, say six, 10 years ago. 318 00:27:19,385.35 --> 00:27:21,5.35 I'm actually feel like I'm alive. 319 00:27:21,5.35 --> 00:27:21,935.35 I'm living for something. 320 00:27:21,935.35 --> 00:27:22,565.35 I'm happy. 321 00:27:22,565.35 --> 00:27:24,5.35 I actually love coming to work. 322 00:27:24,5.35 --> 00:27:24,665.35 I love it. 323 00:27:24,875.35 --> 00:27:26,540.35 Again, I think comes back to the hope. 324 00:27:26,540.35 --> 00:27:28,310.35 I feel like my living experience. 325 00:27:28,615.35 --> 00:27:35,965.35 I don't want to say Survivor, but I'm here and I can, um, promote that hope, although I don't usually use that word. 326 00:27:35,965.35 --> 00:27:42,745.35 I probably use it more right now than, um, but, but I think that's what it is. 327 00:27:43,105.35 --> 00:27:43,435.35 Yeah. 328 00:27:43,945.35 --> 00:27:44,215.35 Yeah. 329 00:27:45,685.35 --> 00:27:47,485.35 Joe, a final question to you. 330 00:27:48,355.35 --> 00:27:58,265.35 Listening to Anne speak here how does it make you feel about the work that you're doing at Bendigo Community Health Services? Oh, look, it's, it's what gets me up outta bed every day. 331 00:27:58,365.35 --> 00:28:04,25.35 Well, I work for an awesome organization and lived experience is valued from the top here. 332 00:28:04,55.35 --> 00:28:08,345.35 Our CEO Mandy is a hundred percent behind it. 333 00:28:08,345.35 --> 00:28:10,805.35 She, she wants this work to be expanded. 334 00:28:10,805.35 --> 00:28:12,65.35 She can see the benefit of it. 335 00:28:12,455.35 --> 00:28:14,795.35 So when you have that buy-in already, it makes. 336 00:28:14,950.35 --> 00:28:17,560.35 Everything else that has to come so much easier. 337 00:28:17,610.35 --> 00:28:20,490.35 So this is just gonna continue to expand. 338 00:28:20,490.35 --> 00:28:28,920.35 So I'm really excited to be at the start of this journey of rolling it out and providing the support and structure that the workforce needs. 339 00:28:28,920.35 --> 00:28:30,630.35 And just seeing it blossom. 340 00:28:31,150.35 --> 00:28:34,880.35 It leads to better outcomes for people that use our service. 341 00:28:35,280.35 --> 00:28:39,180.35 It's got so much potential and I'm just so excited to be part of it. 342 00:28:39,180.35 --> 00:28:39,525.35 It's, it's exciting times. 343 00:28:39,675.35 --> 00:28:39,965.35 Yeah. 344 00:28:39,965.35 --> 00:28:40,205.35 Yeah. 345 00:28:40,675.35 --> 00:28:41,245.35 It's exciting. 346 00:28:41,395.35 --> 00:28:41,685.35 Yeah. 347 00:28:43,290.35 --> 00:28:44,520.35 Thank you so much. 348 00:28:44,580.35 --> 00:28:53,670.35 Thank you Joe and Ange for taking time outta your busy day to come into the Emporium Hub where we're recording this podcast and to give us some insight into your life and work. 349 00:28:54,10.35 --> 00:28:57,250.35 To our listeners, thank you for joining us and please stick with us. 350 00:28:57,250.35 --> 00:29:04,540.35 Over the coming series, we'll be addressing some hot health and wellbeing topics such as trauma informed practice, youth mental health. 351 00:29:04,815.35 --> 00:29:10,635.35 The state of GP Access and Care, alcohol and Drug Services in Bendigo, refugee services and more. 352 00:29:11,85.35 --> 00:29:20,595.35 Plus, how to respond to what the health forecasting is telling us so we can plan for the next 50 years of community health stay well take care of yourself and others. 353 00:29:20,625.35 --> 00:29:23,925.35 And if you need assistance, jump onto bcs.com 354 00:29:24,465.35 --> 00:29:29,445.35 au to discover how our more than 50 health and wellbeing services can help you and your loved ones. 355 00:29:30,700.35 --> 00:29:39,250.35 Finally, we have just touched on some sensitive topics here, so if you do need to talk to someone about any of the issues raised in this episode, help is available. 356 00:29:39,700.35 --> 00:29:43,570.35 Call Lifeline on thirteen eleven fourteen or beyond. 357 00:29:43,570.35 --> 00:29:45,635.35 Blue on 1,322. 358 00:29:45,925.35 --> 00:29:47,275.35 46 36. 359 00:29:47,765.35 --> 00:29:48,475.35 Thank you.