June 2, 2025 • 38 mins
This episode features Nimi Attanayake of Nimtim Architects, who discusses how her personal experiences, including a cancer diagnosis, reshaped her career.
Nimtim is an architecture practice in London that crafts playful, personal spaces for real people, rethinking how architecture can be more accessible and human.
0:00 - Intro1:16 - Why Architecture? A Personal Battle3:10 - Nimi's Route into Architecture: Family & Early Education4:49 - Early Career Challenges & Seeking Belonging7:09 - Founding Nimtim: Taking Risks & Gaining Freedom9:34 - Personal Health & The Need for Flexible Work10:38 - Making Architecture Accessible & Relatable11:33 - The "Briefing Game": Empowering Clients15:47 - Novel & Sustainable Material Choices18:34 - Landscape's Influence: Connecting Inside & Out19:52 - Natural Building & Ethical Responsibilities21:19 - Ethical Practice & Staff Well-being at Nimtim24:53 - Nimtim's Collaborative & Open Culture25:50 - Nimi's Advice: Celebrate Your Differences27:08 - A Career Beyond Imagination28:03 - The Future of Nimtim: Joyful Spaces & Community Impact30:08 - Envisioning Nimtim's Apartment Buildings & Masterplans31:37 - The Human Touch in Architecture & Navigating AI32:48 - Sound of Bell Going Off33:29 - Interview Concludes & Final Thoughts
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
It never was architecture. I've battled with the profession
and my place in it the whole waythrough my education.
Nimi Atanaika is an architect and Co founder of Nim Tim
Architects, the Nim alongside her husband Tim.
Nim Tim's work focuses on domestic projects, beautifully
crafted and full of colour and novel materials.
Each of their designs is incredibly unique and deeply
personal to each client, originating from the design
(00:21):
process of real listening and understanding.
Nimi's involved in the number ofdesign review panels and is seen
as an advocate for change withinthe profession, celebrating
diversity and conclusion, ensuring equal footing for
female voices from all backgrounds.
Before we set up Nim Tim, we hadreal personal struggles.
I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.
I went through infertility. We just found that we could not
(00:44):
go to a job that was so rigid. Say you're a newly qualified
architect. What would you say to them?
People can often measure their success related to other people
and I would just say celebrate the differences that you have.
It makes you special. It brings things to practice
services that they may not have already.
Unfortunately, a lot of the portfolios that I review are
(01:06):
very similar, trying to nurture that confidence within students.
From a practice owner point of view, that's what I want to see.
Nimi, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
So I think just as a warm up, big question, why architecture?
What is it about a career in architecture design that sort of
(01:29):
gets you up in the morning that kind of keeps you hungry and
sort of moving forward? Well, that's a really good
question. It never was architecture.
I think I've battled with the profession and my place in it
the whole way through my education.
(01:50):
And it's only later, like in thelast 1011 years since we set up
NIM Tim that I really am passionate about it.
And I, I do see a place for myself and I do love waking up
every morning and doing what I do.
I feel incredibly privileged andincredibly lucky that I get to
decide what I do or I get to, I get to do work that brings me
(02:14):
value and hopefully value to other people.
So I like, and I think also thatarchitecture has changed since I
was educated in it. So now, you know, my day might
look like coming to do a podcastor like presenting A scheme that
we're doing where we're reimagining green spaces.
(02:36):
We're working with the National Trust, we're reimagining green
spaces of a local London estate.And the project, the Commission
is all about engagement. And I love, I love talking about
that. I think I like people and I
like, I like making architectureaccessible for people.
I think I that the elements of it that I don't like are how
(02:58):
othering it can sometimes make you feel.
And so I try not to put myself in those environments.
And so because of that, I feel really excited.
It's a lovely answer in, in terms of you getting into this
profession. Then we, we, you, you said just
now that you know, architecture wasn't your main passion point.
What is your route into this? You know, what were those early
(03:22):
days like you coming into the design profession, you deciding
to take this path? I suppose it's like your family,
your your situation. Yeah, so it was.
It was all around me in many ways.
I my family is very extended. There's a lot of us and we're
(03:42):
all very close. And when I was little, we all
lived in a big house while my parents saved up to get
something. And one uncle was a civil
engineer, another uncle was a building surveyor, and they just
all loved like they would alwaysdo, like mad DIY projects.
So I've got this vivid memory ofthem building their kind of
(04:05):
garden shed and me really wanting to get involved in that.
And then I hear stories about how I was really annoying and
like a beam fell on my head and then my mum got really upset.
But I was always interested. And then I guess when it came to
choosing a career, I had an older cousin who had chosen to
do architecture. And I'm Sri Lankan, so I'm from
(04:28):
an Asian family. And when I was sort of 14, I was
kind of given the choices of there's medicine or there's law,
you know, which ones do you wantto pick?
Those are the careers. And so to do something artistic
or creative was actually quite foreign to my family, but they
were really supportive of the, of a profession and a profession
(04:52):
within the built environment because some of my other family
members were, were doing that. But the, the struggle I had was
I really liked art. I was really good at maths.
I, I, I liked, I was hard working and diligent.
I had a sort of mix of science and art background, but I didn't
actually know what architecture was because they didn't teach at
(05:12):
school. So you did DT And I thought, oh,
great, I can, I can make something that lights up or
whatever, you know, I can, I cancarve a box.
I didn't really know how to use a scale rule.
I didn't know how to, you know, lay out a page, you know, so
that you can convey information.I started at Nottingham.
(05:33):
I chose the university because it spoke to, it was a campus
university. It was very pretty.
It was, it had nice gardens and it was away from London, so I
wanted to be away from my parents.
And then as soon as I started it, it was a bit of a shock to
the system. And I think it back then, I
don't know now, but back then the dropout rates for
architecture were really high because because of that issue
(05:55):
that people didn't know what it entailed.
And so I finished my degree and again, had a bit of AI.
Don't know if this is for me. I went and did work experience
at that time, a lot of the practices were run by kind of
older white people and I and they, I didn't, I didn't see
(06:17):
myself reflected in the profession.
And I really struggled with finding a place for somebody
who's a bit different. And maybe, you know, there
weren't many women, there weren't many people of colour
and there wasn't much space for kind of young vibrancy doing
things differently. It was or it was a set mould.
(06:39):
So I took a few years out and then I had, sorry, there's a
very long winded answer to your question.
I had a few years out and then Isort of realised actually that I
saw everything, I valued everything through the lens of
architecture. And I don't know whether that
was because of my education thatfar or whether that's just
(07:01):
something I've always been interested in.
But I, I could, I could only process things through
architecture. And so I ended up doing my Part
2 at Westminster and really loving it because actually that
was a much more forward school at the time.
It had units, you were allowed to pursue your own interests a
bit more. You were allowed to sort of
(07:21):
almost self lead, self direct your yourself in in the
education. And I really enjoyed that.
It was tricky when you come out of a diploma and then go back
into an architecture job becauseagain you're like faced with
budget and like building regulations and all this kind of
statutory requirements and, and which you, you don't necessarily
(07:44):
do in the design projects. They're always about creative
and fun. So I struggled again with it and
worked for a number of differentlarge practices, small and
large, predominantly large. And then was in, I think it was
2009 made redundant. I was working for a big practice
(08:06):
and that was around the time of the sort of a recession and was
made redundant. And again, had a sort of time
out where I was able to reflect on, on the profession in my
place in it. And then shortly after that, we
came back, we went into practice, but we started doing
stuff on our own. And then we sort of decided to
(08:27):
set up Nim, Tim. I suppose with that in mind,
obviously Nim Tim, a very well known practice, you run that
with your husband who you met during your Part 2.
That's correct. Going into that entrepreneurial
route when both of your architects at probably quite a
young age, how do you reflect onthat?
(08:48):
You know, what lessons can you take from that and also what
what was it about the industry at that point in time and your
experience from working in thoselarger practices?
Did you either sort of take on board or kind of rebel against
when you were forming your own way forward?
I think we were, like you say, we were quite young.
(09:12):
It wasn't a common thing. You didn't have a lot of young
people setting up practices sortof 1112 years ago.
I think we were working for big practices, but we wanted more
freedom. We wanted more creative control
over what we did and also flexibility.
(09:35):
I think before we set up Nim Tim, we had real personal
struggles. I was diagnosed with ovarian
cancer. I had, I went through
infertility and suddenly it kindof really refocuses you on
what's important. And we just found that we could
(09:59):
not go to a job that was so rigid where you worked like 9 to
6, often 9 to 8, you know, let'sbe honest.
And if you had deadlines later and what were we getting out of
that? How was that fulfilling our
lives? But it was a massive risk and we
didn't really know anything about business above what we'd
(10:24):
learnt during our Part 3. So, you know, like how to write
an invoice or how to do financial forecasting or, you
know, letter heads. We didn't have any websites, we
didn't have any of that. But I think we kind of felt our
way. And actually that's something
(10:44):
that we take pride in, you know,that we built our website and it
looks handmade and it looks approachable and friendly and
relatable. It doesn't look all glossy.
And there's a quality in that. And the way that we worked with
everyday people. So we, we had to get projects
where we could. And a lot of those were from
(11:08):
people who had no idea what architecture was.
And we'd then have to explain the process to them.
And then we found out actually, we really loved that.
Like we really liked getting ridof all the jargon and that kind
of other ring kind of nature that sometimes architecture can
have and start making it really everyday really kind of
approachable and and relatable to people.
(11:31):
We really liked that I. Think that's really interesting
and, and something I really wantto kind of draw upon is, is that
the nature of your work, the nature of your approach to, to,
to me, it, it looks like you're very much as a practice, a sort
of facilitator. You know, you're, you're helping
predominantly people that don't let you say, don't understand
architecture per SE. It's the first time doing a
(11:54):
project, you're guiding them along the process.
And one of my experiences of NimTim has been through the
domestic, of course, that you guys did and how you talk about
the briefing game in that. And I find that an incredibly
kind of interesting and, and novel process.
And I wonder whether you talk about that a little bit more in
terms of how you feel as a, you know, you're educating people,
(12:14):
you're taking your clients on a journey, I suppose.
Yeah, we used to have sort of like standard questions that
we'd ask every client, but then we realised each client, they're
not all the same. And also you're only getting an
answer from what you ask. So if you don't answer, ask the
question, you won't ever know. So then we tried to create
(12:36):
something that was more fun and playful and took out the kind of
stigma about the process where people might not know what they
might not know the process, theymight not know the words to
describe what they're doing or what's important to them.
And actually it's it's been really lovely because we've been
(12:58):
able to kind of build a relationship through playing
that game where people trust us.And then as we go through the
the process, they start to become empowered and feel a
sense of agency within it, whichis great.
And I think it shows in every project because then it's got
(13:20):
part of them in it. And we've been able to take that
way of working and kind of scaleit up so that we can do bigger
projects, use it in community engagement for wider reaching
subjects, like the kind of forgotten green spaces I was
talking about earlier, or kind of bigger spaces like a school,
(13:40):
for example, or a master plan. And we can start to talk to
people about that. And especially when, you know,
in the community, English isn't always a first language or
children may not feel the confidence to talk about what
they'd like to see. And it kind of levels everybody
up and everybody feels empowered.
(14:02):
And it's a great thing to see. I think that is a fascinating
thing because it to me, it lookslike Nim Tim is more of a kind
of an approach. You know, I think, I think when
you look at your work, there's such a variety in, you know, the
buildings that that come out of it sort of thing.
It's almost like, you know, you saying, you know, you can scale
this approach up from a domesticscale to a master plan sort of
(14:24):
thing. It's a, it's almost like a, you
know, a way of doing things, a way of thinking, a way of
communicating stuff. How much of that is kind of
intentional? I think we have a starting
point, which is usually the briefing game.
We have counters on there, so wemight try and predict certain
things that might come up. But there we always like to
(14:46):
leave an element of chance, so we always like to leave an
element of unknown. So for example, with the
briefing game we'll have blank counters and we try and
encourage people to populate that with things that might be
related to them or their cultureor their heritage.
We then I guess we try to steer the ship so that it follows, you
(15:15):
know, for example the Reba stageof work or it follows the
process so that we're only we'regetting information that is
relevant to that stage in the project.
So we don't try and go too much in detail at the beginning, if
you see what I mean. So we are in the background
(15:38):
almost shaping the environment that allows the process to
happen. Yeah, fascinating in in terms
of, you know, the resultant buildings.
I think another thing as an outsider you can see are those
kind of novel, interesting, sustainably LED uses of
material, color, texture, thingslike that.
(15:59):
Again, how much does that come from the client?
How much is it you guys steeringand.
And I suppose it's, it's that sort of balance between guidance
and decision making and the architect proposing solutions
sort of thing. How do you you know, where do
you sit in all of those things? So I think we try to agree with
(16:20):
our clients and get them on board to a concept, a narrative,
a story of what they want to achieve.
They we then like to share that.So it's a common goal that the
client believes in, we believe in, the contractor believes in,
subcontractors believe in and they all buy into it to deliver.
(16:43):
It helps to make decisions by agreeing that upfront.
And so we are lucky that we're asmall practice and certain
projects don't lend themselves to be able to have the
(17:04):
flexibility. But in a lot of our other
projects where we are, we're a small practice and we're working
with small clients. We can come to them with
exciting materials or exciting textures or exciting ideas that
as long as we show them, it fitswithin the concept that we've
(17:25):
got and the narrative that we'rebuilding, the clients are really
receptive to it. And so many of them have, you
know, they, they don't necessarily know about
hempcrete. They wouldn't know that you
could use cork internally and externally because they're not
technically in that field. So they don't have that
technical information. They don't know about build UPS,
(17:47):
but we do and we can propose it to them and, and show an
evidence how it fits in with theconcept.
And actually it's been really nice when they, they love it,
but you know, they take ownership of it and they, you
know, one client stands by the court wall and sniffs it all the
time because it smells a little bit like charred timber or like
the hemp Crete. You know, they just love sitting
(18:09):
in the space because it keeps such a nice temperature and also
the sound, it can buffer the sound.
So it's actually a really interesting different quality in
that space and they can enjoy that.
Yeah, that's fascinating. How much I know.
I know you're a landscape designer as well.
How much do you think that playsinto your designs?
(18:29):
I know I've heard you reference the sort of work of Jeffrey Paul
well before and the sort of obviously, you know, the
connection between the inside and outside.
And obviously his work is a different climate to the UK.
But, you know, I think one of the, the big things, I mean,
maybe it comes from doing domestic projects where you're
building right up to people's garden sort of thing.
But it, it does feel like a lot of your work has an innate
(18:52):
connection with the outside. How much do you, you know, kind
of think about that? And, and I think that's probably
one of the draws that clients want is that connection with the
outside. It's changed a lot.
People now put more onerous, notonerous, put more importance on
(19:13):
their homes as places that can promote their well-being.
People clients are much more aware about the climate, they're
much more aware about sustainability.
They're much more aware about chemicals produced in various,
you know, I don't know, paints or or treatments that you might
(19:33):
put on materials. And I think we're really keen on
those. I think coming from a place
where the outside is very much part of the inside, you know, in
Sri Lanka, you can't, you can't have a concrete wall and keep
(19:54):
that separation. It just bleeds.
You know, it's got it's a humid climate, the cut of the plants,
the jungle, it just, it just comes into your house.
It just, you know, it takes overand have it and have sort of
promoting natural ventilation, you know a lot of those houses.
Don't you know they don't have air conditioning or mechanical
(20:14):
heating, heat recovery systems? So looking at how to do it in a
more naturally sustainable way, I think is part of our
responsibility as architects. And especially at the moment, it
feels like something that we choose to do and we also bring
(20:37):
to the clients that we work with.
We recently wrote a piece, Tim wrote a piece about Grenfell and
some of the lobbying that had gone on using certain types of
insulation which were highly combustible.
And we kind of decided as a practice, this was a few years
(21:01):
before the kind of the outcome of the enquiry was came out.
We decided to use kind of more sustainable insulation within
our build UPS, which, you know, it does make the build UPS
bigger. The walls, the new walls are
thicker. But actually we haven't had a
single push back from clients about that.
(21:23):
They're all happy to kind of, well, they're all happy to kind
of use something more natural and thicker walls just mean that
they've got better temperature regulation inside their homes.
I think sometimes there's like apreconception that people aren't
going to be open to this, but I think they are.
And I think it's the smaller groups, the smaller people where
(21:43):
they've got their own money, youknow, it's their life savings
and it matters. And yet they're willing to spend
it on that sort of climate decision, you know, sustainable
decisions. And I think, I think that's, I
think that's really valuable. In, in terms of, I mean, in that
case, you're, you're, you're taking a position, you know, in
terms of where you feel comfortable, where you sit
(22:04):
ethically. Where do you, where do you sit
in terms of, as a practice, you know, in terms of setting those
standards within your own practice, in terms of, you know,
the ethical elements, I know, you know, in terms of your
staffing, it's predominantly female lead staff, for example.
How much of that, again, is intentional?
And it's, it's something we've touched on with other guests
about, you know, improving the, the practicing, you know, for
(22:28):
architects, for young people in the profession.
Obviously architecture, as, as we mentioned, is typically got
a, a history of long hours and, and low pay sort of thing.
I guess you know, what do you feel you're doing as a small
practice to combat these things?I guess lots of things and I'm
not really sure. I think we try not to be guided
(22:50):
about what how other practices are doing things.
We try and lead by example. We're married, we have two
adopted children. It's it's a juggle and we allow
flexible working. We allow working from home.
We try and leave promptly. We have things like if people
(23:15):
have to stay late that they're given toil.
We try and create a really nice environment where we want to
come into work every day, so we'll have monthly soup and
salad. We try and arrange lectures to
go out and see together. We try and visit buildings where
potentially there might be something interesting that we
(23:37):
can take inspiration from or bring back into the practice.
We try not to lead the practice,but encourage others to kind of
take part in it, if that makes sense.
So we try not to implement ways that it's going to be, but let
(23:59):
everybody shape those. So for example, we try and
invite them into like the financial workings of the
practice. We have regular updates, we have
open salaries. We also had to recently redo our
offices, which was really fun and crazy and stressful, and we
(24:19):
tried to use natural materials where possible, but also try and
get everything used or second hand so we weren't having to buy
things new to try and reduce thekind of carbon footprint of that
project. You see it, it feels like
you've, you've taken a very similar approach that you take
(24:40):
with your projects, you know, inthat sort of open, honest
conversation, communication sortof thing.
I guess so. I don't think that we've, I
don't know that we intentionallydid that, but I think by nature
of who we are, I think that's how our work is kind of a
reflection of who we are and ourpractices as well.
We never intended to get more women in the practice but it is
(25:05):
a lovely thing. It's really, really nice that
there are loads more women and Ithink it's a great thing every
day to work with women. In terms of, you know, say, say
you're a newly qualified architect or a young Part 1
starting out in the profession today, what, what would you say
to them? What can they learn from your
(25:25):
journey in architecture or your your journey in design?
I think, and I've spoken about this a lot and I guess maybe
this is repetitive if you've ever heard me speak before, but
I think that people can often want to conform once they can
often measure their success related to other people and see
(25:48):
that any differences are maybe not, not a success or a
hindrance. And I would just say celebrate
the differences that you have. It makes you special.
It it brings things to practicesthat they may not have already.
And I think that in the past there's been a tendency for the
(26:10):
education to make an output thatis quite standardised.
And I think unfortunately the Part 1 graduates that I see, I'm
an external examiner for Manchester and GCL and a lot of
the portfolios that I review arevery similar.
(26:31):
And I think trying to nurture that confidence within students
and also for them to go out in interviews and even put it in
their portfolio, put themselves in there from a from a practice
director point of view, from a practice owner point of view,
that's what I want to see. It's a really beautiful message.
(26:53):
Do you think your careers turnedout how you imagined?
No, no, no, I never would have thought I would be in this
position and speaking to you anddoing a podcast no, and and the
projects that we do at Nim Tim passionate about every single
one of them. And I think I, I didn't imagine
(27:14):
that I would ever have that in my working life.
And I feel so proud that I love what I do.
I love my job, I love my children, I love my life.
And I'm very, very lucky for that, especially when I think in
2013 and 2014 when I was diagnosed with cancer, I really,
(27:37):
I didn't know what to do and everything fell apart and I
didn't, I didn't. It came as such a shock.
And to be sitting here sort of 10 years later with what we've
built from that experience, fromthat trauma is something I could
never have imagined. And I'm so grateful.
Obviously Nim Tim is known for it's, you know, really wonderful
(28:00):
domestic projects and you can see you're doing more of these
community LED, landscape LED projects.
What's what's on the cards for Nim Tim?
What is the overall, you know, goal?
What's your plan? Oh, that's a really good
question. That's too many good questions.
I don't know that we've got an answer yet.
I think we're really keen on building some of the threads
(28:24):
that we're that that we're doingat the moment.
So with our residential project,we'd like to continue doing more
of those. We really enjoy them.
We'd like to do bigger projects,bigger residential projects, new
builds with the same ethos, the same values that we've done with
the smaller interventions, with the landscape projects where
(28:45):
we've prioritised community engagement.
We want to continue those. There's so many spaces in London
and probably nationwide where they're just unforgot, they're
just, they're underutilised, they're forgotten.
And if COVID taught us anything,it was the importance of those
green spaces when people don't have anything and then they've
(29:05):
got a balcony, you know, having those communal green spaces
which exist on estates throughout the country, making
them better utilised, making them more open to everybody so
that everyone can access them, Ithink is really important and
something we're really keen to get involved with.
And then finally, we're writing a book.
(29:27):
We're writing a book for Reba called Joyful Spaces.
And what's been lovely about that process is speaking to
other practices who have similarprocesses for creating
meaningful architecture. And that's what we think is
joyful. So that's been fun.
That's incredibly exciting. What do you, I mean you
(29:49):
mentioned previously about the way you work.
What do you think a Nim Tim developer LED apartment building
looks like or a Nim Tim master plan looks like?
Is it, is it just about the approach?
Is it just about the facilitation or is there a end
goal in mind? I think those two things would
(30:09):
look quite different. I think a Nim Tim apartment
would be a very exciting, very different, maybe a bit bespoken,
unique and individual, maybe notto everyone's taste, but
definitely to the ones who livedthere.
It would be meet their needs andthat would be a success for us,
I think. A master plan, I think for us, I
(30:34):
don't, I don't feel successful master plans come through one
practice. I think there has to be
diversity in it. And actually a lot, I think a
lot of the procurement processesnow are realising that and that
collaboration can make successful projects rather than
be a hindrance. You know, the more people that
(30:54):
are involved, the more people you've got to deal with.
And in the history of those sorts of projects, that's seen
as a negative. I think now people are starting
to realise that the more people that are involved in designing
and creating these places, the more representative it is of the
community that it's serving. So I'm I think a a master plan
would never be done by Nim Tim alone.
(31:16):
I think 11 thread that seems to be common amongst our
conversation and your work is that sort of human approach and
the the understanding of different people, the
representation of different people and, and your role in
that. Where do you kind of see
architecture in the future where, you know, we're, we're
constantly being told more aboutAI, you know, the the removal of
(31:38):
the human from the process sort of thing.
How? How are you going to be
navigating that in the future? We're still, we're still getting
to grips with that as a practiceand something that Tim's really
keen on. I think architects, this is a
massive generalisation. So I'll just say maybe Nim Tim,
I think we, we aren't, we aren'tstrong in running businesses.
(32:06):
You know, we're not trained in business really.
So where AI or computer systems can help is helping us run more
of the business side or the kindof standardisation, helping it,
helping us to be sorry. That's OK.
(32:30):
Oh, we might be over time this. Is such an.
Uplifting conversation, yeah. Oh, I hope so.
Sorry I get quite ranty. No, no.
No, honestly, there's like such a like a warmth from what you're
saying. Yeah, I hope so.
You're not ranty? No, no.
No, completely not. Like mine was up with my mum,
she's always, she gets on a highhorse and then starts ranting
about stuff and I'm like, oh mum.
(32:50):
No, I, I, yeah. I just think it's really
beautiful approach that you've got.
Like, I think that really comes across.
I think it's just yeah. We all good Lucy.
I'm going to step out and talk to this person because I think
they've mixed up the day. They're not really booked in.
Today. Yeah.
I can't remember what you asked.Yeah, neither can I.
OK. I think one thread that's
(33:13):
obviously kind of clear from ourconversation and, and, and from
your work is that sort of human,you know, centric approach and,
and the importance of people's voices, their opinions on, you
know, how they work in a space, how they feel about their own
space and the projects in a, in a world that's, you know,
(33:33):
evolving and the importance of AI and things we keep being told
how, how a nim Tim sort of negotiating that in the future
and, and, and whether that's positive or detrimental to what
you're doing. I think we are keen to use AI
(33:54):
and the kind of fast-paced technology that's coming out to
help us do what we enjoy doing. And I think, you know, we
weren't we're, we're not the greatest of business people.
I think Tim would agree with me.And if there's, you know, if
there are systems in place, if AI can help that we're really,
(34:15):
we're really positive about that.
I think we strongly believe, like you've kind of mentioned
that people we should be designing for the people that
are using those spaces. And I think people respond when
they see that people like them are designing them.
So if you try and standardise the design process or the
(34:39):
engagement process, I think thatwon't be a success.
I think it is about people and it is about people for us.
And that's what makes successfulprojects.
I think AI and technology can support that, but I don't think
it can it can do that in the place of a human.
(34:59):
Does that make? Sense.
That makes complete sense. Perfect.
And that's it. Thank you so much for joining
us. Thank you for having me good.
Nice. That was so good.
Yeah, honestly, really, really lovely.
Thank you so much. Wow, what a story.
I guess so. I don't know, it's hard, but
it's always siloed. It's so architecture is very
(35:21):
siloed, isn't it? Like you never know what anyone
else what they're. And, and I think everyone has a
story, but I think most of the time there's a bit of shame
about saying it. And actually as soon as you
start saying, as soon as I started saying to clients and
stuff, oh, I've got cancer. They'll be like, Oh yeah, I had
cancer. And you're like, oh great, I can
actually talk to you. Or they know someone.
(35:41):
Or you know, if as soon as you start sharing stories, it will
lead somewhere. Being open and honest and
communicating is a good thing, isn't?
It, it really is. It's very unbritish I.
Think it's quite. Difficult, but but I think in
lots of, I think lots of people relate to it and like it and
also like culturally, I think it's you get, you're used to it.
(36:02):
It's just a British thing. I think maybe of just being a
little bit same about like talking about money.
We hate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My I mean my middle child's autistic and we have exactly the
same. Thing about the.
Minute, the minute I talk to someone and they go, yeah, so we
just go. And there's like that
appreciation that you have that's untold between each other
that you just go, oh, you get it, obviously you get it now
sort of thing. And it's just, it does build
that sort of connection where you just kind of go, you know?
(36:25):
And, but I think also the children feel it.
So before you know, they, you'd never, you'd always almost have
to make them feel like they werenormal, that they, they, but
actually now you can say my child's autistic.
And then you'd be like, oh, actually we're just getting our
child assessed because he's a boy and he's fucking crazy.
And you, and then you're like, you can share that.
And it's nice for the children to see, yeah, that autism's
(36:45):
actually like, don't they say it's like a superpower or
something, which is great. Great way to describe it.
Just like the power of just talking about things just has
like so much value to it, you know?
And but that's, and that's what I mean, like when you come out
of Part 1, you just, you don't feel like, I mean, obviously,
obviously you know, when you're 21, you don't necessarily have
(37:05):
these life experiences, but you might do like some of them might
be refugees who come over and their parents have saved every
penny they've had to do architecture education and they
feel ashamed by that. But actually, that's amazing,
you know? I obviously geek out on all the
designee type things and I thought I honestly, I think your
process is so interesting, like the way of doing it and like,
(37:28):
you know, actually giving a shitwhat people say is something.
It's just like so important and alien to a lot of practices.
So I like that sort of bit. But obviously we want to really
do the career stuff and the story of things.
But I think one thing that we mentioned before was like lots
of the podcasts go, where did you go to school?
What did you do at university and, and go through that exact
(37:49):
route. And I think that's kind of less
interesting. And that's the, that's the value
of the sort of podcast format, isn't it, that people show a
more vulnerable side or an interesting thing that isn't on
the website like you say? Architecture is such a, because
it's a creative industry. You want to give it your all.
It's, it's, you know, Nim Tim was our, we had the dog that was
(38:10):
the first baby, then we had Nim Tim and it is a bit of a baby.
So you've got all these babies to try and nurture.
It never was architecture. I've battled with the profession
and my place in it the whole waythrough my education.
Nimi Atanaika is an architect and Co founder of Nim Tim
Architects, the Nim alongside her husband Tim.
Nim Tim's work focuses on domestic projects, beautifully
crafted and full of colour and novel materials.
Each of their designs is incredibly unique and deeply
personal to each client, originating from the design
(00:21):
process of real listening and understanding.
Nimi's involved in the number ofdesign review panels and is seen
as an advocate for change withinthe profession, celebrating
diversity and conclusion, ensuring equal footing for
female voices from all backgrounds.
Before we set up Nim Tim, we hadreal personal struggles.
I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer.
I went through infertility. We just found that we could not
(00:44):
go to a job that was so rigid. Say you're a newly qualified
architect. What would you say to them?
People can often measure their success related to other people
and I would just say celebrate the differences that you have.
It makes you special. It brings things to practice
services that they may not have already.
Unfortunately, a lot of the portfolios that I review are
(01:06):
very similar, trying to nurture that confidence within students.
From a practice owner point of view, that's what I want to see.
Nimi, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
So I think just as a warm up, big question, why architecture?
What is it about a career in architecture design that sort of
(01:29):
gets you up in the morning that kind of keeps you hungry and
sort of moving forward? Well, that's a really good
question. It never was architecture.
I think I've battled with the profession and my place in it
the whole way through my education.
(01:50):
And it's only later, like in thelast 1011 years since we set up
NIM Tim that I really am passionate about it.
And I, I do see a place for myself and I do love waking up
every morning and doing what I do.
I feel incredibly privileged andincredibly lucky that I get to
decide what I do or I get to, I get to do work that brings me
(02:14):
value and hopefully value to other people.
So I like, and I think also thatarchitecture has changed since I
was educated in it. So now, you know, my day might
look like coming to do a podcastor like presenting A scheme that
we're doing where we're reimagining green spaces.
(02:36):
We're working with the National Trust, we're reimagining green
spaces of a local London estate.And the project, the Commission
is all about engagement. And I love, I love talking about
that. I think I like people and I
like, I like making architectureaccessible for people.
I think I that the elements of it that I don't like are how
(02:58):
othering it can sometimes make you feel.
And so I try not to put myself in those environments.
And so because of that, I feel really excited.
It's a lovely answer in, in terms of you getting into this
profession. Then we, we, you, you said just
now that you know, architecture wasn't your main passion point.
What is your route into this? You know, what were those early
(03:22):
days like you coming into the design profession, you deciding
to take this path? I suppose it's like your family,
your your situation. Yeah, so it was.
It was all around me in many ways.
I my family is very extended. There's a lot of us and we're
(03:42):
all very close. And when I was little, we all
lived in a big house while my parents saved up to get
something. And one uncle was a civil
engineer, another uncle was a building surveyor, and they just
all loved like they would alwaysdo, like mad DIY projects.
So I've got this vivid memory ofthem building their kind of
(04:05):
garden shed and me really wanting to get involved in that.
And then I hear stories about how I was really annoying and
like a beam fell on my head and then my mum got really upset.
But I was always interested. And then I guess when it came to
choosing a career, I had an older cousin who had chosen to
do architecture. And I'm Sri Lankan, so I'm from
(04:28):
an Asian family. And when I was sort of 14, I was
kind of given the choices of there's medicine or there's law,
you know, which ones do you wantto pick?
Those are the careers. And so to do something artistic
or creative was actually quite foreign to my family, but they
were really supportive of the, of a profession and a profession
(04:52):
within the built environment because some of my other family
members were, were doing that. But the, the struggle I had was
I really liked art. I was really good at maths.
I, I, I liked, I was hard working and diligent.
I had a sort of mix of science and art background, but I didn't
actually know what architecture was because they didn't teach at
(05:12):
school. So you did DT And I thought, oh,
great, I can, I can make something that lights up or
whatever, you know, I can, I cancarve a box.
I didn't really know how to use a scale rule.
I didn't know how to, you know, lay out a page, you know, so
that you can convey information.I started at Nottingham.
(05:33):
I chose the university because it spoke to, it was a campus
university. It was very pretty.
It was, it had nice gardens and it was away from London, so I
wanted to be away from my parents.
And then as soon as I started it, it was a bit of a shock to
the system. And I think it back then, I
don't know now, but back then the dropout rates for
architecture were really high because because of that issue
(05:55):
that people didn't know what it entailed.
And so I finished my degree and again, had a bit of AI.
Don't know if this is for me. I went and did work experience
at that time, a lot of the practices were run by kind of
older white people and I and they, I didn't, I didn't see
(06:17):
myself reflected in the profession.
And I really struggled with finding a place for somebody
who's a bit different. And maybe, you know, there
weren't many women, there weren't many people of colour
and there wasn't much space for kind of young vibrancy doing
things differently. It was or it was a set mould.
(06:39):
So I took a few years out and then I had, sorry, there's a
very long winded answer to your question.
I had a few years out and then Isort of realised actually that I
saw everything, I valued everything through the lens of
architecture. And I don't know whether that
was because of my education thatfar or whether that's just
(07:01):
something I've always been interested in.
But I, I could, I could only process things through
architecture. And so I ended up doing my Part
2 at Westminster and really loving it because actually that
was a much more forward school at the time.
It had units, you were allowed to pursue your own interests a
bit more. You were allowed to sort of
(07:21):
almost self lead, self direct your yourself in in the
education. And I really enjoyed that.
It was tricky when you come out of a diploma and then go back
into an architecture job becauseagain you're like faced with
budget and like building regulations and all this kind of
statutory requirements and, and which you, you don't necessarily
(07:44):
do in the design projects. They're always about creative
and fun. So I struggled again with it and
worked for a number of differentlarge practices, small and
large, predominantly large. And then was in, I think it was
2009 made redundant. I was working for a big practice
(08:06):
and that was around the time of the sort of a recession and was
made redundant. And again, had a sort of time
out where I was able to reflect on, on the profession in my
place in it. And then shortly after that, we
came back, we went into practice, but we started doing
stuff on our own. And then we sort of decided to
(08:27):
set up Nim, Tim. I suppose with that in mind,
obviously Nim Tim, a very well known practice, you run that
with your husband who you met during your Part 2.
That's correct. Going into that entrepreneurial
route when both of your architects at probably quite a
young age, how do you reflect onthat?
(08:48):
You know, what lessons can you take from that and also what
what was it about the industry at that point in time and your
experience from working in thoselarger practices?
Did you either sort of take on board or kind of rebel against
when you were forming your own way forward?
I think we were, like you say, we were quite young.
(09:12):
It wasn't a common thing. You didn't have a lot of young
people setting up practices sortof 1112 years ago.
I think we were working for big practices, but we wanted more
freedom. We wanted more creative control
over what we did and also flexibility.
(09:35):
I think before we set up Nim Tim, we had real personal
struggles. I was diagnosed with ovarian
cancer. I had, I went through
infertility and suddenly it kindof really refocuses you on
what's important. And we just found that we could
(09:59):
not go to a job that was so rigid where you worked like 9 to
6, often 9 to 8, you know, let'sbe honest.
And if you had deadlines later and what were we getting out of
that? How was that fulfilling our
lives? But it was a massive risk and we
didn't really know anything about business above what we'd
(10:24):
learnt during our Part 3. So, you know, like how to write
an invoice or how to do financial forecasting or, you
know, letter heads. We didn't have any websites, we
didn't have any of that. But I think we kind of felt our
way. And actually that's something
(10:44):
that we take pride in, you know,that we built our website and it
looks handmade and it looks approachable and friendly and
relatable. It doesn't look all glossy.
And there's a quality in that. And the way that we worked with
everyday people. So we, we had to get projects
where we could. And a lot of those were from
(11:08):
people who had no idea what architecture was.
And we'd then have to explain the process to them.
And then we found out actually, we really loved that.
Like we really liked getting ridof all the jargon and that kind
of other ring kind of nature that sometimes architecture can
have and start making it really everyday really kind of
approachable and and relatable to people.
(11:31):
We really liked that I. Think that's really interesting
and, and something I really wantto kind of draw upon is, is that
the nature of your work, the nature of your approach to, to,
to me, it, it looks like you're very much as a practice, a sort
of facilitator. You know, you're, you're helping
predominantly people that don't let you say, don't understand
architecture per SE. It's the first time doing a
(11:54):
project, you're guiding them along the process.
And one of my experiences of NimTim has been through the
domestic, of course, that you guys did and how you talk about
the briefing game in that. And I find that an incredibly
kind of interesting and, and novel process.
And I wonder whether you talk about that a little bit more in
terms of how you feel as a, you know, you're educating people,
(12:14):
you're taking your clients on a journey, I suppose.
Yeah, we used to have sort of like standard questions that
we'd ask every client, but then we realised each client, they're
not all the same. And also you're only getting an
answer from what you ask. So if you don't answer, ask the
question, you won't ever know. So then we tried to create
(12:36):
something that was more fun and playful and took out the kind of
stigma about the process where people might not know what they
might not know the process, theymight not know the words to
describe what they're doing or what's important to them.
And actually it's it's been really lovely because we've been
(12:58):
able to kind of build a relationship through playing
that game where people trust us.And then as we go through the
the process, they start to become empowered and feel a
sense of agency within it, whichis great.
And I think it shows in every project because then it's got
(13:20):
part of them in it. And we've been able to take that
way of working and kind of scaleit up so that we can do bigger
projects, use it in community engagement for wider reaching
subjects, like the kind of forgotten green spaces I was
talking about earlier, or kind of bigger spaces like a school,
(13:40):
for example, or a master plan. And we can start to talk to
people about that. And especially when, you know,
in the community, English isn't always a first language or
children may not feel the confidence to talk about what
they'd like to see. And it kind of levels everybody
up and everybody feels empowered.
(14:02):
And it's a great thing to see. I think that is a fascinating
thing because it to me, it lookslike Nim Tim is more of a kind
of an approach. You know, I think, I think when
you look at your work, there's such a variety in, you know, the
buildings that that come out of it sort of thing.
It's almost like, you know, you saying, you know, you can scale
this approach up from a domesticscale to a master plan sort of
(14:24):
thing. It's a, it's almost like a, you
know, a way of doing things, a way of thinking, a way of
communicating stuff. How much of that is kind of
intentional? I think we have a starting
point, which is usually the briefing game.
We have counters on there, so wemight try and predict certain
things that might come up. But there we always like to
(14:46):
leave an element of chance, so we always like to leave an
element of unknown. So for example, with the
briefing game we'll have blank counters and we try and
encourage people to populate that with things that might be
related to them or their cultureor their heritage.
We then I guess we try to steer the ship so that it follows, you
(15:15):
know, for example the Reba stageof work or it follows the
process so that we're only we'regetting information that is
relevant to that stage in the project.
So we don't try and go too much in detail at the beginning, if
you see what I mean. So we are in the background
(15:38):
almost shaping the environment that allows the process to
happen. Yeah, fascinating in in terms
of, you know, the resultant buildings.
I think another thing as an outsider you can see are those
kind of novel, interesting, sustainably LED uses of
material, color, texture, thingslike that.
(15:59):
Again, how much does that come from the client?
How much is it you guys steeringand.
And I suppose it's, it's that sort of balance between guidance
and decision making and the architect proposing solutions
sort of thing. How do you you know, where do
you sit in all of those things? So I think we try to agree with
(16:20):
our clients and get them on board to a concept, a narrative,
a story of what they want to achieve.
They we then like to share that.So it's a common goal that the
client believes in, we believe in, the contractor believes in,
subcontractors believe in and they all buy into it to deliver.
(16:43):
It helps to make decisions by agreeing that upfront.
And so we are lucky that we're asmall practice and certain
projects don't lend themselves to be able to have the
(17:04):
flexibility. But in a lot of our other
projects where we are, we're a small practice and we're working
with small clients. We can come to them with
exciting materials or exciting textures or exciting ideas that
as long as we show them, it fitswithin the concept that we've
(17:25):
got and the narrative that we'rebuilding, the clients are really
receptive to it. And so many of them have, you
know, they, they don't necessarily know about
hempcrete. They wouldn't know that you
could use cork internally and externally because they're not
technically in that field. So they don't have that
technical information. They don't know about build UPS,
(17:47):
but we do and we can propose it to them and, and show an
evidence how it fits in with theconcept.
And actually it's been really nice when they, they love it,
but you know, they take ownership of it and they, you
know, one client stands by the court wall and sniffs it all the
time because it smells a little bit like charred timber or like
the hemp Crete. You know, they just love sitting
(18:09):
in the space because it keeps such a nice temperature and also
the sound, it can buffer the sound.
So it's actually a really interesting different quality in
that space and they can enjoy that.
Yeah, that's fascinating. How much I know.
I know you're a landscape designer as well.
How much do you think that playsinto your designs?
(18:29):
I know I've heard you reference the sort of work of Jeffrey Paul
well before and the sort of obviously, you know, the
connection between the inside and outside.
And obviously his work is a different climate to the UK.
But, you know, I think one of the, the big things, I mean,
maybe it comes from doing domestic projects where you're
building right up to people's garden sort of thing.
But it, it does feel like a lot of your work has an innate
(18:52):
connection with the outside. How much do you, you know, kind
of think about that? And, and I think that's probably
one of the draws that clients want is that connection with the
outside. It's changed a lot.
People now put more onerous, notonerous, put more importance on
(19:13):
their homes as places that can promote their well-being.
People clients are much more aware about the climate, they're
much more aware about sustainability.
They're much more aware about chemicals produced in various,
you know, I don't know, paints or or treatments that you might
(19:33):
put on materials. And I think we're really keen on
those. I think coming from a place
where the outside is very much part of the inside, you know, in
Sri Lanka, you can't, you can't have a concrete wall and keep
(19:54):
that separation. It just bleeds.
You know, it's got it's a humid climate, the cut of the plants,
the jungle, it just, it just comes into your house.
It just, you know, it takes overand have it and have sort of
promoting natural ventilation, you know a lot of those houses.
Don't you know they don't have air conditioning or mechanical
(20:14):
heating, heat recovery systems? So looking at how to do it in a
more naturally sustainable way, I think is part of our
responsibility as architects. And especially at the moment, it
feels like something that we choose to do and we also bring
(20:37):
to the clients that we work with.
We recently wrote a piece, Tim wrote a piece about Grenfell and
some of the lobbying that had gone on using certain types of
insulation which were highly combustible.
And we kind of decided as a practice, this was a few years
(21:01):
before the kind of the outcome of the enquiry was came out.
We decided to use kind of more sustainable insulation within
our build UPS, which, you know, it does make the build UPS
bigger. The walls, the new walls are
thicker. But actually we haven't had a
single push back from clients about that.
(21:23):
They're all happy to kind of, well, they're all happy to kind
of use something more natural and thicker walls just mean that
they've got better temperature regulation inside their homes.
I think sometimes there's like apreconception that people aren't
going to be open to this, but I think they are.
And I think it's the smaller groups, the smaller people where
(21:43):
they've got their own money, youknow, it's their life savings
and it matters. And yet they're willing to spend
it on that sort of climate decision, you know, sustainable
decisions. And I think, I think that's, I
think that's really valuable. In, in terms of, I mean, in that
case, you're, you're, you're taking a position, you know, in
terms of where you feel comfortable, where you sit
(22:04):
ethically. Where do you, where do you sit
in terms of, as a practice, you know, in terms of setting those
standards within your own practice, in terms of, you know,
the ethical elements, I know, you know, in terms of your
staffing, it's predominantly female lead staff, for example.
How much of that, again, is intentional?
And it's, it's something we've touched on with other guests
about, you know, improving the, the practicing, you know, for
(22:28):
architects, for young people in the profession.
Obviously architecture, as, as we mentioned, is typically got
a, a history of long hours and, and low pay sort of thing.
I guess you know, what do you feel you're doing as a small
practice to combat these things?I guess lots of things and I'm
not really sure. I think we try not to be guided
(22:50):
about what how other practices are doing things.
We try and lead by example. We're married, we have two
adopted children. It's it's a juggle and we allow
flexible working. We allow working from home.
We try and leave promptly. We have things like if people
(23:15):
have to stay late that they're given toil.
We try and create a really nice environment where we want to
come into work every day, so we'll have monthly soup and
salad. We try and arrange lectures to
go out and see together. We try and visit buildings where
potentially there might be something interesting that we
(23:37):
can take inspiration from or bring back into the practice.
We try not to lead the practice,but encourage others to kind of
take part in it, if that makes sense.
So we try not to implement ways that it's going to be, but let
(23:59):
everybody shape those. So for example, we try and
invite them into like the financial workings of the
practice. We have regular updates, we have
open salaries. We also had to recently redo our
offices, which was really fun and crazy and stressful, and we
(24:19):
tried to use natural materials where possible, but also try and
get everything used or second hand so we weren't having to buy
things new to try and reduce thekind of carbon footprint of that
project. You see it, it feels like
you've, you've taken a very similar approach that you take
(24:40):
with your projects, you know, inthat sort of open, honest
conversation, communication sortof thing.
I guess so. I don't think that we've, I
don't know that we intentionallydid that, but I think by nature
of who we are, I think that's how our work is kind of a
reflection of who we are and ourpractices as well.
We never intended to get more women in the practice but it is
(25:05):
a lovely thing. It's really, really nice that
there are loads more women and Ithink it's a great thing every
day to work with women. In terms of, you know, say, say
you're a newly qualified architect or a young Part 1
starting out in the profession today, what, what would you say
to them? What can they learn from your
(25:25):
journey in architecture or your your journey in design?
I think, and I've spoken about this a lot and I guess maybe
this is repetitive if you've ever heard me speak before, but
I think that people can often want to conform once they can
often measure their success related to other people and see
(25:48):
that any differences are maybe not, not a success or a
hindrance. And I would just say celebrate
the differences that you have. It makes you special.
It it brings things to practicesthat they may not have already.
And I think that in the past there's been a tendency for the
(26:10):
education to make an output thatis quite standardised.
And I think unfortunately the Part 1 graduates that I see, I'm
an external examiner for Manchester and GCL and a lot of
the portfolios that I review arevery similar.
(26:31):
And I think trying to nurture that confidence within students
and also for them to go out in interviews and even put it in
their portfolio, put themselves in there from a from a practice
director point of view, from a practice owner point of view,
that's what I want to see. It's a really beautiful message.
(26:53):
Do you think your careers turnedout how you imagined?
No, no, no, I never would have thought I would be in this
position and speaking to you anddoing a podcast no, and and the
projects that we do at Nim Tim passionate about every single
one of them. And I think I, I didn't imagine
(27:14):
that I would ever have that in my working life.
And I feel so proud that I love what I do.
I love my job, I love my children, I love my life.
And I'm very, very lucky for that, especially when I think in
2013 and 2014 when I was diagnosed with cancer, I really,
(27:37):
I didn't know what to do and everything fell apart and I
didn't, I didn't. It came as such a shock.
And to be sitting here sort of 10 years later with what we've
built from that experience, fromthat trauma is something I could
never have imagined. And I'm so grateful.
Obviously Nim Tim is known for it's, you know, really wonderful
(28:00):
domestic projects and you can see you're doing more of these
community LED, landscape LED projects.
What's what's on the cards for Nim Tim?
What is the overall, you know, goal?
What's your plan? Oh, that's a really good
question. That's too many good questions.
I don't know that we've got an answer yet.
I think we're really keen on building some of the threads
(28:24):
that we're that that we're doingat the moment.
So with our residential project,we'd like to continue doing more
of those. We really enjoy them.
We'd like to do bigger projects,bigger residential projects, new
builds with the same ethos, the same values that we've done with
the smaller interventions, with the landscape projects where
(28:45):
we've prioritised community engagement.
We want to continue those. There's so many spaces in London
and probably nationwide where they're just unforgot, they're
just, they're underutilised, they're forgotten.
And if COVID taught us anything,it was the importance of those
green spaces when people don't have anything and then they've
(29:05):
got a balcony, you know, having those communal green spaces
which exist on estates throughout the country, making
them better utilised, making them more open to everybody so
that everyone can access them, Ithink is really important and
something we're really keen to get involved with.
And then finally, we're writing a book.
(29:27):
We're writing a book for Reba called Joyful Spaces.
And what's been lovely about that process is speaking to
other practices who have similarprocesses for creating
meaningful architecture. And that's what we think is
joyful. So that's been fun.
That's incredibly exciting. What do you, I mean you
(29:49):
mentioned previously about the way you work.
What do you think a Nim Tim developer LED apartment building
looks like or a Nim Tim master plan looks like?
Is it, is it just about the approach?
Is it just about the facilitation or is there a end
goal in mind? I think those two things would
(30:09):
look quite different. I think a Nim Tim apartment
would be a very exciting, very different, maybe a bit bespoken,
unique and individual, maybe notto everyone's taste, but
definitely to the ones who livedthere.
It would be meet their needs andthat would be a success for us,
I think. A master plan, I think for us, I
(30:34):
don't, I don't feel successful master plans come through one
practice. I think there has to be
diversity in it. And actually a lot, I think a
lot of the procurement processesnow are realising that and that
collaboration can make successful projects rather than
be a hindrance. You know, the more people that
(30:54):
are involved, the more people you've got to deal with.
And in the history of those sorts of projects, that's seen
as a negative. I think now people are starting
to realise that the more people that are involved in designing
and creating these places, the more representative it is of the
community that it's serving. So I'm I think a a master plan
would never be done by Nim Tim alone.
(31:16):
I think 11 thread that seems to be common amongst our
conversation and your work is that sort of human approach and
the the understanding of different people, the
representation of different people and, and your role in
that. Where do you kind of see
architecture in the future where, you know, we're, we're
constantly being told more aboutAI, you know, the the removal of
(31:38):
the human from the process sort of thing.
How? How are you going to be
navigating that in the future? We're still, we're still getting
to grips with that as a practiceand something that Tim's really
keen on. I think architects, this is a
massive generalisation. So I'll just say maybe Nim Tim,
I think we, we aren't, we aren'tstrong in running businesses.
(32:06):
You know, we're not trained in business really.
So where AI or computer systems can help is helping us run more
of the business side or the kindof standardisation, helping it,
helping us to be sorry. That's OK.
(32:30):
Oh, we might be over time this. Is such an.
Uplifting conversation, yeah. Oh, I hope so.
Sorry I get quite ranty. No, no.
No, honestly, there's like such a like a warmth from what you're
saying. Yeah, I hope so.
You're not ranty? No, no.
No, completely not. Like mine was up with my mum,
she's always, she gets on a highhorse and then starts ranting
about stuff and I'm like, oh mum.
(32:50):
No, I, I, yeah. I just think it's really
beautiful approach that you've got.
Like, I think that really comes across.
I think it's just yeah. We all good Lucy.
I'm going to step out and talk to this person because I think
they've mixed up the day. They're not really booked in.
Today. Yeah.
I can't remember what you asked.Yeah, neither can I.
OK. I think one thread that's
(33:13):
obviously kind of clear from ourconversation and, and, and from
your work is that sort of human,you know, centric approach and,
and the importance of people's voices, their opinions on, you
know, how they work in a space, how they feel about their own
space and the projects in a, in a world that's, you know,
(33:33):
evolving and the importance of AI and things we keep being told
how, how a nim Tim sort of negotiating that in the future
and, and, and whether that's positive or detrimental to what
you're doing. I think we are keen to use AI
(33:54):
and the kind of fast-paced technology that's coming out to
help us do what we enjoy doing. And I think, you know, we
weren't we're, we're not the greatest of business people.
I think Tim would agree with me.And if there's, you know, if
there are systems in place, if AI can help that we're really,
(34:15):
we're really positive about that.
I think we strongly believe, like you've kind of mentioned
that people we should be designing for the people that
are using those spaces. And I think people respond when
they see that people like them are designing them.
So if you try and standardise the design process or the
(34:39):
engagement process, I think thatwon't be a success.
I think it is about people and it is about people for us.
And that's what makes successfulprojects.
I think AI and technology can support that, but I don't think
it can it can do that in the place of a human.
(34:59):
Does that make? Sense.
That makes complete sense. Perfect.
And that's it. Thank you so much for joining
us. Thank you for having me good.
Nice. That was so good.
Yeah, honestly, really, really lovely.
Thank you so much. Wow, what a story.
I guess so. I don't know, it's hard, but
it's always siloed. It's so architecture is very
(35:21):
siloed, isn't it? Like you never know what anyone
else what they're. And, and I think everyone has a
story, but I think most of the time there's a bit of shame
about saying it. And actually as soon as you
start saying, as soon as I started saying to clients and
stuff, oh, I've got cancer. They'll be like, Oh yeah, I had
cancer. And you're like, oh great, I can
actually talk to you. Or they know someone.
(35:41):
Or you know, if as soon as you start sharing stories, it will
lead somewhere. Being open and honest and
communicating is a good thing, isn't?
It, it really is. It's very unbritish I.
Think it's quite. Difficult, but but I think in
lots of, I think lots of people relate to it and like it and
also like culturally, I think it's you get, you're used to it.
(36:02):
It's just a British thing. I think maybe of just being a
little bit same about like talking about money.
We hate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My I mean my middle child's autistic and we have exactly the
same. Thing about the.
Minute, the minute I talk to someone and they go, yeah, so we
just go. And there's like that
appreciation that you have that's untold between each other
that you just go, oh, you get it, obviously you get it now
sort of thing. And it's just, it does build
that sort of connection where you just kind of go, you know?
(36:25):
And, but I think also the children feel it.
So before you know, they, you'd never, you'd always almost have
to make them feel like they werenormal, that they, they, but
actually now you can say my child's autistic.
And then you'd be like, oh, actually we're just getting our
child assessed because he's a boy and he's fucking crazy.
And you, and then you're like, you can share that.
And it's nice for the children to see, yeah, that autism's
(36:45):
actually like, don't they say it's like a superpower or
something, which is great. Great way to describe it.
Just like the power of just talking about things just has
like so much value to it, you know?
And but that's, and that's what I mean, like when you come out
of Part 1, you just, you don't feel like, I mean, obviously,
obviously you know, when you're 21, you don't necessarily have
(37:05):
these life experiences, but you might do like some of them might
be refugees who come over and their parents have saved every
penny they've had to do architecture education and they
feel ashamed by that. But actually, that's amazing,
you know? I obviously geek out on all the
designee type things and I thought I honestly, I think your
process is so interesting, like the way of doing it and like,
(37:28):
you know, actually giving a shitwhat people say is something.
It's just like so important and alien to a lot of practices.
So I like that sort of bit. But obviously we want to really
do the career stuff and the story of things.
But I think one thing that we mentioned before was like lots
of the podcasts go, where did you go to school?
What did you do at university and, and go through that exact
(37:49):
route. And I think that's kind of less
interesting. And that's the, that's the value
of the sort of podcast format, isn't it, that people show a
more vulnerable side or an interesting thing that isn't on
the website like you say? Architecture is such a, because
it's a creative industry. You want to give it your all.
It's, it's, you know, Nim Tim was our, we had the dog that was
(38:10):
the first baby, then we had Nim Tim and it is a bit of a baby.
So you've got all these babies to try and nurture.
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