March 27, 2025 • 57 mins
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Campaign finance revelations and heated candidate exchanges dominate this eye-opening exploration of Columbus politics. The stark financial disparities between mayoral candidates—Leroy Brooks amassing nearly $30,000 to Stephen Jones' $11,000—sets the stage for a fascinating discussion about what money really means in local elections.
Zack and David analyze a viral Facebook post from an MSMS teacher. Her courageous decision to speak out has galvanized attention statewide, highlighting how students' perspectives (93% preferring to remain at MUW) have been largely ignored in decisions affecting their education.
The heart of the episode features an unfiltered conversation with Ward 2 candidates Joseph Mickens and Roderick Smith. Their contrasting approaches—Mickens leaning on his four terms of experience and infrastructure accomplishments versus Smith's vision of being "a bridge between youth and city officials"—perfectly capture the fundamental choice Columbus voters face: proven experience or fresh perspective?
Tensions rise when discussing absentee ballot practices, city finances, and the fractured relationship between council and mayor. Mickens boldly defends the city's financial position ($10 million in reserves) while addressing past controversies, including public confrontations with city employees. Smith counters with priorities focused on public safety and fostering unity between city and county leadership.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:38):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now Between the Headlinesthat.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
And now, between the Headlines Today on Between the
Headlines, a teacher breaks thegag order and goes public in an
effort to stop the steel andultimate demise of MSMS.
And all eyes on Highway 45North.
As we break down the Ward 6Republican Forum between Jason
Spears and Kim McCarty DavisPlus Leroy Brooks outraises
(01:13):
Stephen Jones In a margin ofthree to one.
Zach and I break down thecampaign numbers.
And, last but not least, you donot want to miss the in-studio
interview with candidates fromWard 2.
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And now a message frompolitical candidate Bill Strauss
.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I want to thank the Commercial Dispatch for this
podcast, bringing differentviews in an open discussion.
I'm Bill Strauss, humbly askingfor your vote as next mayor of
Columbus.
You deserve transparency andaccountability for your tax
dollars.
I'm business friendly andcharitable.
Vote Bill Strauss Mayor ofColumbus 2025.
Paid for by campaign to electBill Strauss.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And now a message from political candidate Jason
Spears.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
I am Jason Spears candidate for City Council, Ward
6.
Over the past 20 years, Ifaithfully and effectively
served our community in manydifferent ways.
If elected, I will bringstructure and strategy to the
city's finances, help develop ablueprint to capitalize on the
growing economic activity in ourcity and work to strengthen
relationships with LowndesCounty officials, the Golden
Triangle Development Link and,most importantly, you, the
(03:16):
citizens of Columbus.
I approve this message and, onApril 1st, vote Jason Spears for
Ward 6, paid for by thecampaign to elect Jason Spears.
Vote Jason Spears for Ward 6.
Paid for by the campaign toelect Jason Spears.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Thanks for joining us today.
You are listening to Betweenthe Headlines hosted by the
raging Razorback and managingeditor of the commercial
dispatch, woo pig suey, mr ZachPlayer, and I am David Chisholm.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
First headline today what?
Speaker 4 (03:47):
would you do with $30,000,?
David, I don't think I wouldspend it locally.
Look, I'm all about localbusiness, but with that kind of
money I might just take themoney and run and do something
fun.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, leroy's trying to win the mayor's race with it.
That's how much, or very nearlyhow much.
He got very close to $29,000 inhis contributions on his
pre-primary election or campaignfinance report.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Good chunk of change.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yep, that's compared to Stephen Jones $11,000.
$3,000 of his came from his ownpocket and came from an
itemized contribution from hiswife.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Okay, so let's break that down.
One could easily say that alack of outside monetary support
equals a lack of support ingeneral.
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I don't know if that's true.
I think that there's definitelybeen elections that we've seen,
especially on the local level,but even on the state and
federal level, where the highestfundraiser did not win.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Yeah, I was on one of those actually, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I didn't mean to hit you low on that.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
That's all right.
I didn't realize.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I did so I want to take a look at a couple of
things here.
Yes, dollars help, but theydon't vote.
Yes, dollars help but theydon't vote.
It's hard to tell the relativestrength of a candidate's
chances of winning on moneyalone, for the reasons that
we've already talked about.
But the thing I'm surprisedabout, when you look at Leroy's
contributors he got a good chunkof change from all these
(05:20):
Democratic PACs.
Stephen didn't get any PACmoney.
I was very surprised to see howanemic his campaign receipts
were.
I wasn't surprised to see thatLeroy had raised a lot of money.
We'd heard that already.
But I thought that that marginwas going to be smaller.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, the thing about it is the margin between the
two of them.
Right, you have to form arelationship with the do-gooders
of society.
Okay, you have to know people.
Now, he knows people, butthey're not giving him money,
and that matters.
Well, I mean, is he?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
asking that.
When I saw that I was like isStephen asking anybody for money
?
Is he just think it's going tofall out of the sky?
Because I mean, leroy's clearlyasking for people for money
because he knows that that'simportant.
Stephen knows that that'simportant and so either people
are telling him no thanks orhe's not asking, and that seems
(06:14):
to.
If people are saying no, thatdoes speak to the strength of
his support.
If he's not asking, that speaksto a naivete that I didn't
realize that he still had.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Well, you've got to have money to run a campaign,
there's no question about it.
Now, granted, there are somepeople that are going to read
the newspapers and they justhave a very crass negative
attitude about it and they say,well, let's see who's bought
so-and-so.
I mean, there's just people outthere.
Let's be real, any campaignmoney is dirty money.
(06:47):
Okay, that's just the way theysee it, as if to say, every
politician out there should befully self-funded.
Well, if that's the way that itruns, then only the richest of
the rich are going to do thiskind of work.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And that would be awful.
But I mean a lot of thecandidates do self-fund and that
was another thing that Inoticed, you know, jason Spears,
even though he's in Ward 6,even though he's quote-unquote
outraised Kimberly McCarty Davis2-1, two-thirds of his money is
coming out of his own pocket.
(07:20):
Then you look at Ms Davis andall of her money's third party
but it's come from out of out ofthe area, it's come from out of
town, out of state.
So I thought that was a weirddynamic too that can be
troubling to some people.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Again, you you've got to go through these forms and
and look at the details, see whoit is, see what their interests
are.
And there are some entities outthere that just like to give
money, just to have skin in thegame, even though they don't
really feel like they're goingto get something in return.
I mean, and frankly, it'sillegal and morally wrong to
(08:01):
make promises.
If you give this much money,then I'm going to push this
particular issue.
That's not how it works.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I mean a lot of people, and maybe this is my
naivete.
A lot of people give tocampaigns because they like the
guy, yeah, or they want to seethe guy win, or the lady.
A couple of other observationshere, going back to the mayor's
race.
You did not see Harry Sanderson Leroy's itemized receipt.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
I was disappointed not to see that.
That would have been quite thefodder to bring into this studio
today, but nope.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Last thing I wanted to talk about on campaign
finance, before we move onlooking at the expenditures.
Now, everybody up and down theline as I'm looking through
these expenditures, it's thestandard fare.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Now, you talked about signs, and on the way to the
studio today, I stopped andlooked at a banner by Shishi
O'Neill, and her banner did, infact, have the disclaimer in the
corner that it was paid for bythe campaign to elect Laisha
O'Neill, however.
(09:11):
However, if I'm lookingcorrectly at this report, she
filed one and it had a bunch ofzeros on it All zeros.
She neither collected nor spentmoney.
Therefore, one must ask wherecame these signs from?
Well, maybe it's self-funded,but you're still supposed to
report that.
You should Look.
(09:32):
I need to cast an aspersion onthat because that's a violation.
You have to disclose that, evenif the signs are given to you,
you have to report that as adonation.
Yeah, as a donation, as anin-kind donation.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And we also need to note that there were, I believe,
three candidates who didn'tfile a report and were supposed
to.
That would have been SequelaClark and Cedric fenster in ward
five and tommy smith in wardtwo.
They both in contest or they'reall three in contested
(10:12):
primaries didn't file a report.
That's against the law and I'mone of these people.
If you can't if you can't checkyour boxes like you're supposed
to check them, you ought not tobe in the race.
But that that's a hot take?
No, it's, that's not.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Listen.
If you hide informationrelating to your campaign
financing, what else are youwilling to sweep under the rug?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Those rules are not.
Whatever rules do exist there,they're not enforced.
So there's no other than thehonor system.
And when you've got people whoare running for office that
don't that, don't file theirforms, that's a load of bull and
do better.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Well, if they ran for a state office, I can tell you
from experience that if you areone day late licking the postage
stamp, you're going to get anice fancy letter from the
Ethics Commission with anenvelope expecting a $50 fine
per day.
So obviously it's a differentkettle of fish here on the local
level.
But again, what else will yousweep under the rug?
(11:11):
You have to be not justtransparent, but actively
transparent with this stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, moving on to your little shimmy again.
Republican Forum you had forWard 6, you had Jason Spears and
Kimberly McCarty.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Davis, fine festive occasion.
They both arrived early, and sowe had some good, interesting
small talk and fellowshipbeforehand, and then, at the
appointed hour, we went on theair live by Facebook, and I
think they both came out aswinners.
Now I know I'm supposed to saythat because I'm the Republican
(11:48):
chair, kimberly Davis was thebetter Republican.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Okay, jason Spears was the better candidate, and
let me explain what I mean.
Interesting, she painted apicture of Columbus.
You know this nostalgic pictureof, you know, my childhood,
where things were fine, and youknow this nostalgic picture of,
you know, my childhood, wherethings were fine.
And you know the Democrats, theevil, fiendish Democrats hadn't
(12:11):
, you know, taken over the cityand allegedly torn it down yet.
But we're going to restore that.
We'll make Columbus great againand we're going to do it.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Boy, your definition of a Republican is really going
over my head right now.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Okay.
So here my critique of her isthis, I think, as a campaign
tactic, focus them very stronglyon that nostalgia, focus them
very strongly on the idea thatyou know Ward 6, we in Ward 6
invest all of this tax money, webuilt this town.
Yeah, we built this town.
(12:47):
We should get our share of thattax money back as an investment
.
Never they mind the fact that'snot how tax money really works,
but that plays well.
Jason's was a little broader.
It didn't use any sort ofcoding or any sort of
implication that there is an usand a them.
(13:08):
He did advocate for his wardfor certain things, but he
stayed away from sort of that.
You know, columbus used to bethis wonderful place and then
now that's been taken away andI'm going to, if I'm put on the
council, I'm going to help youreclaim it.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
So you felt that Jason was more current.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I thought that Jason was.
I think that Jason demonstratedthat, while he is a
conservative and while he wouldemploy conservative values as a
councilman, that it wouldn'tmatter as much to him what ward
something was built in or whodirectly benefited or where tax
(13:46):
money is spent, as long as itwas a good idea.
He seemed to be somebody thatrecognized a good idea could
come from Mickens, a good ideacould come from Pierre and if
it's a good idea and the numberssupport it, I'll vote with it.
He demonstrates more of thatwillingness and capability than
(14:07):
does, for example, the sittingWard 6 Councilwoman, and I think
that Kimberly whether she'sreally like that or not I think
that she did present on somelevel, sort of a Jackie 2.0
vision of what that seat'ssupposed to be.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You are listening to Between the Headlines.
Next on our agenda today theFacebook post by Dr LeVar Pierce
.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Well, we've got a couple of things here.
We've got a Facebook post andwe've got the kids weighing in.
We've got the survey.
This is big.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
This is underrated stuff here.
Before we came into the studio,which was about an hour ago,
that the particular post ofwhich we speak had 153 shares.
So it's out there, and it's notjust local.
This thing is making its wayaround the state, which is a
beautiful thing, beautiful,beautiful beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Can you break down the post a little bit for us
Okay?
Speaker 4 (15:06):
so I've got it open right here.
I'm not going to read it.
Her name is Lori LeVar Pierce.
Brilliant lady, speaks severaldifferent languages and teaches
at the school.
She basically breaks it downwho the players are, what's been
happening, and it really getssalty toward the end of it.
That's what I really enjoy here.
(15:27):
She says one thing of note thatthese kids have chosen to
separate themselves, that thisis not a regular high school.
She says that teachers arepolishing their resumes and are
looking into their retirementoptions.
(15:47):
She even puts in there that thelegislative mood is to close
MUW.
So this is a pretty fiery thingcoming from an insider.
Up until now, the people thatI've spoken with at both MUW and
MSMS have been very middle ofthe road, very professional.
(16:09):
Not that this is unprofessional, but they've just been not
wanting to take a side for fearof retribution.
But in an act of valor andcourage, this particular woman
has stepped up here to the plate, and the word is getting out as
a result of it.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I think the student experience is something that has
been not entirely ignored butcertainly not included in the
conversation to the extent thatit has been.
Look at this post and a surveyof students that it was printed
(16:49):
first in the vision, the studentnewspaper at msms, and we
reprinted it, uh, in thedispatch this week.
That show, you know, a vast,vast majority of the ones of the
of the students they'resurveyed.
93 percent of the ones who tookthe survey.
You know, preferred msms at muw, so I got a couple of points
here.
One I totally get the stressthat everybody is feeling at
(17:12):
MSMS and I felt terrible forthem this whole time.
Everybody from the legislatureto people at MUW, to people for
Tripp and Keith and us we're alltalking about it and they're
having to go to class and teachand learn in an environment
where, you know, third partiesare just going at them and I
(17:38):
feel bad about that.
And I think that thelegislature and the other people
involved, even if they thinkthat an MSU move is the best,
they need to take intoconsideration that the impact of
this conversation beingprotracted and not having a
clear end and being dealt withbehind closed doors a lot of
(18:03):
times and then, oh, here's a newthing that affects these people
and affects these people'slives.
But, um, well, the start that'sgo ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I'm sorry the, the state board of education.
They open their meeting with alovely prayer and they they have
all this flowery talk about howeverything we do may everything
we do cause great things tohappen for our students.
It's all about the students,it's not about anything else.
Good grief, you're going to sayit's all about the students,
(18:35):
but at the same time think thesestudents are too dumb to have
their own opinion.
Not consult the students, notlisten to them, not bring them
in the conversation?
Maybe have a couple of honoraryboard members who are students
to make things look better thanthey are, but this I mean I mean
seriously, though why was MSMSleft out of this conversation?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
The survey is interesting to me because it
affirms what we already knewMSMS does an incredible job,
right where it is, despite theobstacles the facilities face
and really despite what the youknow the public pressure on that
place has been for the pastcouple of years, they continue
to do a good job right wherethey are.
(19:21):
You know MSU the MSU part ofthis is an identity changer to
MSMS.
For me, the SHS part is anidentity destroyer for MSMS, and
so here's who that's going tobe.
You know you've got kids acrossthe state who may be applying
in three years, four years, fiveyears to MSMS based on the
(19:43):
identity it's always had basedon the reputation that it's
always had, based on the vibethat it's always had, only to
arrive to campus to discoverthat that identity is completely
gone.
So this arranged marriagebetween SOCSD and MSU it's going
to wash away MSMS's independentidentity completely and I can't
see where it doesn't hisindependent identity completely
(20:08):
and I can't see where it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Um, I think the athletic component of the msms
combination with starkville,october hawk county school
district is a real thing.
Especially when you look atthat drawing and don't see ball
fields on the drawing, I meanthey're gonna either, they're
still gonna have, though, and ifthey can get where they're
going to bus them across thecity.
I just that's not going to fly.
(20:28):
But I've got to tell you thisyou and I talk about this like
it's a done deal.
This has to go to thelegislator.
The legislature within mereally believes that if enough
people get the word out which ishappening that this can be
(20:55):
defeated and we can come up witha strategy and a funding idea
that will fix the problem, thatis, the facilities for MSMS,
right here where it is Maintainthe school's identity.
Maintain the identity, save theschool, save the university and
save Lowndes County and Columbus.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It can happen.
You know you got a year, so usethe year.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I say we do, unless they put some kind of crazy
thing on the end of a bill,which would be wild but any old
how?
Keep the fight, y'all.
Keep talking to your lawmakersand let's not let this
conversation leave the tableunattended.
All right, well, that's that.
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(22:41):
And now the mail.
We have a message from noneother than Robert Johnson IV.
He says is in order as to why Idropped out of the race and
rejoined.
I thought I could achieve mygoals as a private citizen by
backing a candidate and pushingmy ideas.
However, after speaking withCouncilman Beard and Mr Turner,
(23:06):
I realized our ward fourcouncilman options were badly
inadequate.
Mr Turner asked me to stay outof his way.
Councilman Beard didn't knowthe boundaries of his own ward.
He did not even know thatSandfield Cemetery was in his
ward.
Ward 4 has been forgottenbecause of poor leadership, and
(23:28):
I am in this to help turn thingsaround.
That comes from Republicancandidate Robert Johnson IV.
We thank you for listening andsending us that message.
All right, so now we haveguests the candidates for Ward 2
.
Let's bring them in.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Joining us in the studio today two of the three
candidates for Ward 2 councilmen.
We've got the incumbent, pastorJoseph Mickens, and we've got
Democratic challenger RoderickSmith.
Thank you for joining us in thestudio today.
Speaker 7 (23:59):
Nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
All right, and a note I know that Laisha, ms Shishi
O'Neill, is also running in thisprimary.
We reached out to her, invitedher.
She said she'd try her best tobe here but work obligations may
prohibit her from showing, andthat must have been what
happened.
We'll start with you guys andstart with a softball.
(24:21):
Let you both answer it.
Start with you, roderick, whyare you the best candidate for
Ward 2?
Speaker 6 (24:26):
I feel like I'm the bridge between the youth and our
city officials in the city ofColumbus youth and our city
officials in the city ofColumbus.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Okay, kind of explain for me how that, why you feel
that way and how you think as acouncilman, you're going to use
that bridge to accomplish things.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Okay, I feel like I can relate to the young people.
Being from Columbus, being ayoung age age 32, I can relate
to what they feel needs tohappen in Columbus and I can
also be their voice where theyfeel sometimes we don't have
(25:08):
that voice in the city ofColumbus.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Okay, and you, mr Mickens.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Ask the question.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Why do you think you're the best candidate for
Ward 2?
Speaker 7 (25:17):
Well, first of all, in this race, I have more
experience than any candidate inthe race, whether it's mayor or
whichever ward they're runningin.
In city government, I'm afull-term city councilman.
I've been all over the country.
I've met peoples terms citycouncilman.
(25:38):
I've been all over the country,I've met peoples.
And when you're talking aboutcity government, running city
government, one word sticks outexperience.
Experience is crucial.
When you're talking now, Toomuch is going on now for all
these changes to come about.
I hear what my colleague issaying with the younger people,
but we do have younger peopleson the council.
The council is a collectivebody.
(26:00):
In other words, where one mightbe strong in this area, another
one might be strong in anotherarea.
So it's not like we're notreaching out to the younger
folks.
We are, but we're just doing itin a different way.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Okay, I want to dive in on the four-term incumbent
part.
You and I have talked severaltimes.
There's obviously been courtchallenges and everything else
with this.
So two questions here.
As a four-term incumbent,you're running a really hard
(26:32):
race.
You seem pretty worried aboutthis race for being the most
experienced person in it.
And two, why is I mean thisrace has been I mean,
objectively uglier than any ofthe rest of them in a lot of
ways, especially in a publicperception way.
(26:53):
So both of those questions whyare you so worried about this
one and why has this been sougly?
Speaker 7 (27:00):
Well, first of all, zach, I beg to differ.
I'm not worried.
Okay, I say that, you know?
I mean, do I think I have someopponent, a valuable opponent,
against me?
And Mr Smith, yes, I do.
I mean, when and take this theright way when mr trump won
presidency, nobody saw that.
Some didn't see this coming in2016.
(27:22):
So what I'm saying is we aretaking nothing for granted, okay
.
Okay, they can be newcomer tothe game, whether they got
experience or not.
I'm not taking mr smith forgranted.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Okay, I'm doing everything I can so you're going
with that old adage there.
There's only two ways to runscared and unopposed.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Mr Mickens, I want to follow up on something you said
about your four-term experience.
There's a lot of people thatare worried that the city has
not headed the right directionfinancially.
We've got an amphitheaterthat's unfinished and there's
just a lot of things that arecausing a lot of angst among
people, whether that be drainageissues or weeds growing up
(28:04):
through the sidewalks.
If experience equates goodnessin terms of being a council
member, where has the attitudegone awry?
Speaker 7 (28:18):
Good question.
I deal with the amphitheater.
Well, my address I issued thatone of my colleagues brought up
at the last debate that I wasn'table to make it to.
One of them said that the city,we don't have no money.
One of them made that statement, but I just want to address
what she made.
(28:39):
She didn't make the statementsaying that we don't have no
money.
She was making the statementcompared to the other candidate
that's running.
They're going to do this andthey're going to do that.
She was saying we don't havemoney to do all of this Right
now.
We're sitting on $31 million.
Hear what I'm saying.
$31 million About $20 millionis already allocated out.
Okay, so that's going to leaveoff with $10 million that we got
(29:01):
in reserve right now thismorning.
So what they're telling me?
Yeah, we got to pay payroll.
That can be some more million,but what I'm saying is, since
I've been on the council in 2009and started running in 2005, I
remember when Mr Wade was here.
Mr Wade had $6 million inreserve.
Jeffrey Ruff ran through it inno time.
Y'all know the story.
I ain't got to go further.
(29:21):
What I'm saying is we havenever had this much money in
reserve and this council have agreat deal to do with this $10
million that we have in reserveright now.
First, the amphitheater.
We got plans for theamphitheater.
We can talk to Region Bank.
They agreed to give us a loanand somebody said well what,
(29:42):
y'all going to put some moreskin in the game?
Yes, we're going to put somemore skin in the game.
If we have to invest another1.5, the amphitheater, we'll get
dead.
We'll get done.
I ain't gotten flooded fivetimes.
Get done.
I ain't gotten flooded fivetimes.
I'm a lifelong resident of Ward2.
Lifelong I ain't got floodedfive times.
Did I move?
No, I did not.
(30:03):
What did I do?
I stayed there and fought forthe citizen of Ward 2 until we
got degraded.
We built a ditch on the back ofBeach and Taylor.
That cost me $100,000.
That big concrete ditch I did.
That Paving in the city is upto in my street.
71% of the street is paved inmy ward.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Okay, so a point of clarification on what Ms Stewart
said at the debate.
I was there.
She said, and I quote we'rebroke, no we're not broke.
Speaker 7 (30:36):
We're not broke, we're not broke.
I just want to address itsomewhat.
You can call Jim Briggs andhe'll tell you just the same
thing.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I've covered the financial status.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
We are not broke.
I know what it is.
Yeah, we're not broke.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Okay, well, mr Smith, I want to talk about.
We asked him about theexperience question, so I want
to turn it to you here.
You've got limited experiencewith the city and not any in
city government, and there areissues like finances,
(31:13):
infrastructure, paving, drainage.
You know personnel, you knowjust the general politics of
operating on a council like this.
How, I guess, are you ready totake on those things that you
know, maybe go beyond thingsthat you've directly done in
your experience?
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Okay, well, once elected because I'm thinking
positively too Once elected, youknow I'll sit down, I'll look
at the finances and thepersonnel and we'll just go from
there, just take it one day ata time and go through the next
(31:48):
and everything of the citygovernment.
We'll just improve as we can.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
All right.
Well, one of the things thatkeeps coming up is the
amphitheater.
Do you have a position on that?
Speaker 6 (31:59):
Once I get there, I'm willing to work with all of my
colleagues and all the othercity councilmen and whoever the
mayor may be, and we'll go fromthere, come up with a good game
plan and we'll go for whatever'sbest for the city of Columbus.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Roderick, is there something that you would have
done differently than yourpredecessors?
Just looking at the issues thatwe've spoken about already, or
maybe is there other issues thatyou're seeing, specific to your
ward, that you think need totake on a new direction?
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Well, one thing I wish what could have been done
and I'm not just going to sayit's one person I wish the
council, in the mayor, couldhave had a better relationship.
I'm not saying it was onecouncilman or the other
councilman or, in particular,the mayor.
As leaders of Columbus, nomatter who it is, whether we
(32:59):
black, white, blue, orange,green or purple we got to work
together and not only just thecity leaders.
The county leaders got to workwith the city leaders also
because, at the end of the day,Columbus is the biggest city or
town in Lyons County.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Columbus is the biggest city or town in Lyles
County.
Well, councilman Mickens, tohis point, you guys haven't
gotten along with the mayor andwe've discussed why on the
record before the communicationissues and different things, or
certain employees for thatmatter.
And so right now you'restanding with Stephen in this
(33:42):
race for mayor, but there arethree other candidates running.
Say you're reelected into Ward2 and Stephen isn't the mayor.
Does the next four years looklike the last four years?
Looked like the last four years?
Speaker 7 (33:52):
have, if you go back to 2021, the first after the
mayor came in, he did histhree-month assessment.
So the mayor did histhree-month assessment in
September of 2021, and he did itat Lyons Hill, and the
statement he made there that daywas that Jones and Mickens
should not have been unopposed.
(34:14):
I'm going to make sure thatthey have somebody running
against them the next turn.
What I'm saying is he came inon the wrong footnote.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (34:24):
He came in might as well say, threatening the two
councilmen, that we're going torun somebody against them.
That's where we're at right now.
So what I'm saying is Gasson isnot the issue.
Okay, mail gassing is not theissue.
My answer to your question foryou is if Stephen don't come
(34:45):
back, whichever mail, come backand take this the right way.
It will be an improvement forwhat we got.
Yes, we're going to work withthe next mail.
If it's Mr Leach, we're goingto work with the next mayor.
If it's Mr Leach, we're goingto work with him.
We don't run the day-to-day andpeople are getting confused.
We don't run the day-to-dayoperation.
That's the mayor.
A lot of issues that we werefighting with if we had had
somebody there with a mindset.
(35:07):
But what I'm saying is, whenyou put somebody inexperienced
in these positions, that's whatyou get.
He was not prepared for mayor.
He was not a politician.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Well, let's say, we get Leroy Brooks in there, who's
a very experienced politician.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Y'all aren't getting along Well they're not.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Well look.
He's also said y'all, we needto clean house.
And in his colorful way, he'sbasically said that he would be
in favor of a whole new slate ofcandidates.
So is he also starting on thewrong foot?
Speaker 7 (35:43):
Yes, he is, but I'll tell you this, Mr Chilton, you
learn from your mistake.
But do the city have to sufferbecause the council is not doing
what they're supposed to do?
This time we're putting thecity before the council.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
So whoever wins, mel, is there ways y'all could have
done that better?
Speaker 7 (36:05):
Monday morning quarterback.
Zach, I mean, you always canlook at things that happen.
You could have done differentor done better.
Yeah, there's some things thatI should have did and some
things that I shouldn't havedone.
I agree with that.
What?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
are some things that I should have did and some
things that I shouldn't havedone.
I agree with that.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
What are some things you shouldn't have done?
You think I mean some of theissues.
The Pros Park issue that wetried to invest $4.4 million in.
The mayor vetoed it.
So after he vetoed it it failed.
We voted it down again.
Then he started a petition.
Then he couldn't get the $1,hundred signature so he got shot
down again.
In between that, if I had to doover, I would have went to him
(36:40):
and said let's talk, let's talk,let's talk.
We better than this, we betterthan this, let's see what we can
do.
Some of the things, as a seniorelected official, I could have
stepped up to the plate a littlebit more.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Okay, well now, roderick, you're involved in the
youth sports, you're involvedin rec.
You're deeply invested,personally, into Probst Park and
the city's park system.
Should the city have borrowed$3 million to improve that park?
Speaker 6 (37:20):
I would say yeah, because Pros Park and this may
be a little biased, because Iwas raised in Pros Park through
the ballpark system so improvingPros Park, I do feel like it
was something that should havebeen done.
Also, on that same note, I feellike if the county and the city
(37:45):
would have been together, itwould have been a different
outlook on the whole entiresituation of parking recreation.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
I couldn't agree more with that statement in the
sense that really and truly,what you had was a duplicate
effort between the county andthe city.
You know multiple out Now look,I also played a lot when I was
a child at Probst Park, but Ialso have sense enough to know
that that thing floods a lot andif you put expensive turf out
(38:16):
there and it gets wet and startsfloating up, you've got a mess
bigger than the amphitheater.
So you know again, I'm on thevery, very unpopular side of
that particular issue.
I've always said we need tojust sell that thing to public
outcry.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
But then Stephen Jones.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
He said man, you can't do that, who's going to
buy it?
It's down there as it is.
So well, roderick uh you?
Speaker 1 (38:40):
um, I don't, how familiar are you with the new
parks plan, the parks plan thatneil schaefer put together for
the city and the county, and howfamiliar are you with it?
And, uh, what do you thinkabout it?
Speaker 6 (38:53):
oh Well, I hadn't, you know, familiarized myself
with it a whole lot just yet.
I have been, you know, watchingthe news and reading up on some
of it.
But you know, once I'm elected,you know I'll dig deeper into
it.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Okay, councilman Mickens, you talked about
unforced errors a while ago.
I want to revisit two.
One for which you've apologizedpublicly.
Something that Leroy Brooks, inhis mayoral campaign, has hit
you over the head with over andover again and other people have
criticized you for, was yourhandling of Kenny Weigel in that
(39:32):
meeting when y'all were tryingto hire somebody who will become
his replacement, and also thethe issues with Susan Wilder in
the arguing over that grant andwhether to apply for it.
Talk me through kind of Mondaymorning quarterback that for me
(39:57):
and tell me if you think it'ssomething that may hurt you.
Speaker 7 (40:01):
Well, you called me pastor when you began, so let me
be that pastor right now.
Okay, the word says if a personasks you to forgive them, peter
said should I forgive themthree times?
No, jesus said 70 times three.
In other words, if Austin asks,he do it.
So once I apologize, I put thatbehind me.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Okay, and it was done .
That's what.
Speaker 7 (40:26):
I'm asking it was done in the public opinion.
My colleague on the council,mrs DeCicco, and Mr Green they
appalled me that evening Said Ilook at you different.
What you did you showed me whoyou really are.
Most people wouldn't have cameback and apologized Not in a
public setting.
It happened in a public setting.
So it's happened in a publicsetting.
So I apologize to him.
And you're talking about the MrWeigel.
(40:47):
Mr Weigel, and I want you toknow something now Kenny Weigel,
I don't think is a betterinspector.
It had nothing to do with himpersonally.
Right, okay, it's not a betterinspector in the state of
Mississippi than Kenny.
Kenny know his job.
I wish we could keep Kennythere for a long time with the
illness with his wife.
I begged him don't leave rightnow, because he needed the
insurance.
I said stay on, kenny, becauseyou need the insurance for your
(41:11):
wife and I think she is doingbetter now.
Now the other issue with MsWilder.
I think I chaired the meetingthat day and, if I'm not correct
and what I said was it didn'thappen, we are not going to vote
to rescind it.
My opinion I said I don't haveno vote this morning, but my
opinion is to just let it ride,let it come back.
(41:31):
Did I not say that that morning?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
That's what I said, so with her.
Speaker 7 (41:36):
What happened with that was the mayor went around
the back door and he put MsWilder in a bad position.
Not the council, Mayor Gaskindid that.
He put her in a bad position tobe in to choose between him and
the council.
You don't put your employees inthat position Because the vote
(41:58):
had been passed and once it getsin the minutes, we operate with
the minutes.
We don't operate on whatMickham said or what I think,
Jones or Beard or Ms Stewart orMr Green or Mr Seacole or Mayor
Gaskin.
We operate when we call MsMitchell, Can you read the men's
back and the men state theywere voted down.
So once it got voted down, thenthe mayor did not have the
(42:18):
authority to override thatmotion and that's what he did
and he put her in a bad position.
We love Ms Wilder man.
This is one of the most giftedladies that we could have got
for a grant writer.
This lady worked for PresidentBush.
I mean, she'd been all up in DCworking.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Well, do you think she's very happy in her spot
right now?
Now, let me say I don't knowthe answer to this question.
I haven't talked to her aboutit.
Do you think she's very happyin her position right now that
she's had a couple of publicdressing downs and a dressing
down and executive session fromyou guys?
Speaker 7 (42:47):
Well, executive session didn't really come as a
dressing down.
I'm limited to say whathappened.
Well, she came out of thatthing crying.
Oh, you're talking about thatday, yeah.
Well, I'm talking about thelast time when she, after it had
passed by a couple weeks Well,females can be a little there
was no harsh words said to her.
(43:09):
I'll put it to you like that.
There was no harsh words saidto her.
The word was directed to MrGasson.
She just got full and was upsetand she just wanted the whole
thing.
The lady never been in thistype of situation before.
She wasn't used to that type ofpressure on her.
You know what I'm saying, but Ithink she's going to stay with
us.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Despite the fact that she's worked for a president,
she's good and we want her tostay with us, okay.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Roderick, do you see any mishaps in the way that the
current council has beenhandling personnel and do you
have anything in your backgroundor perhaps in your career that
might make you better fit tohandle personnel issues and
staff and things of that nature?
Speaker 6 (43:49):
Well, the first thing , I mean you got to be able to
know how to talk to people.
I mean we all—.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
Do you think Ms Wilder was—well, you weren't
there.
I won't ask you that.
Go ahead.
Speaker 6 (43:58):
I mean we all—at the end of the day, we all adults.
I mean we have to treat eachother as such.
I mean we have to treat eachother as such, like just because
a police officer come up to usor come up to me and I'm the
city councilman, I mean I can'tbelittle them.
I mean just because I'm theirboss, I mean it's the right way
(44:22):
and the wrong way to doeverything.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Leaving like the recreation and the youth space,
and thinking about the city inbroader terms.
What are three things that youwould like to see the city do?
Speaker 6 (44:40):
What are three initiatives that you would like
to propose as a councilman ifyou're elected?
Well, the first one is publicsafety.
Public safety we need to helprecruit and retain our you know
police department firefighters,because every day, you know,
there's competitors out heretrying to get our qualified
(45:03):
firefighters and police officersfrom the city of Columbus, and
one reason for that is money.
The second thing that I'm goingto work for and work hard at is
getting the city leaders andthe county leaders to come
unified.
That's going to be my firstthing.
(45:25):
I do because, like I said atthe forum, the city of Columbus
and Lowndes County cannot growfurther than they are now unless
both the city councils and thesupervisors come together and
put the ego aside and do what'sbest for the city of Columbus
and Lowndes County.
(45:46):
Okay, well, part of Columbusand the Lyons County.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Okay, Well, part of that is the Golden Triangle
Development Link and youropponent here, the incumbent,
has a viewpoint of the link andthe link's participation in the
city and value to the city.
The CEO of the link, Joe MaxHiggins, has been on this
podcast and has adamantlydisagreed with him on that.
(46:10):
I want to give you anopportunity to speak to why you
feel the way you feel about that, Councilman Miggins.
But I want to ask you, Mr Smith, what do you think the city's
relationship with the linkshould be and what value do you
think the link adds to the cityspecifically?
Speaker 6 (46:27):
I think the link uh adds a significant value to the
city.
Um, but again, we have to sitdown as leaders and stakeholders
and come to some type of commonground.
Uh, it's our right to agree, todisagree and you know, with
different personalities andstuff, like, we're not going to
(46:49):
always agree together, I mean onevery issue.
Sometimes I mean you're goingto disagree, but we have to, at
the end of the day, come to somekind of agreement for what's
best for the city at that time.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Okay, councilman Mickens.
Speaker 7 (47:09):
I love Joe Mack.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
I'm sure he loves you too.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
I love you.
I mean you have called intoquestion the value of that
contract and the value of whatthe link provides the city.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
First let me go on record saying that Joe McHiggins
is one of the greatest mindsever come through Mississippi.
He have done a lot for LowndesCounty.
Matter of fact, he put besidethe $40 million that we got back
in what the 90s for selling thehorse builder.
Joe McHiggins had put LowndesCounty on the map with the job,
(47:47):
the industry that he had broughtpack cars, service store,
airway store, aluminum comingout there.
Now I would love to have arelationship with Joe McHiggins
that the supervisor have, but wedon't.
But we being hold to something,zach, now I'm a councilman.
My responsibility is to be agood advocate for the refund, to
(48:09):
source it, how they're beingspent.
It's my job to question howthat money is being spent Right
and nobody's questioning thevalidity of you questioning that
.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I'm just asking you what does the link need to do to
provide more value to the city?
What we need to do.
Speaker 7 (48:29):
Mr Higgin needs to forget about 05 and 07.
When Jeffrey Ruff and thecouncil did not invest in that
first $100,000, that has beenover the city head ever since.
I've been sitting at a meetingwith Mr Higgin trying to talk.
What can we do to get in onsome of these projects?
We couldn't even get in onaluminum.
(48:51):
If we could have got 10%.
Do you know the revenue thatwould have brought?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
into the city.
So you're saying that the cityasked to invest in that project
and the link turned you down?
Speaker 7 (49:02):
I'm not going to say they turned them down.
What I'm saying we didn't get aseat at the table in it.
I would say that Now I would goeven further.
If you go over to West Pointwith service I mean with
Yokohama ask Rob Bobo what thecity get from Yokohama every
month.
40% out of Yokohama, 40%.
(49:23):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
That's what they get, but they put in 40%.
Speaker 7 (49:27):
That's what I'm saying.
Well, he ain't giving us theopportunity to put in now?
Oh, he has an opportunity toput in Switching the subject
drastically here.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
One more thing that I want to ask you both and I
really I hate that Ms O'Neilldidn't show up, because this has
been an allegation that she hasraised Absentee balloting in
Ward 2.
What does that really look like, mickens?
Do you have a stack of ballotsthat you're going and asking
people to just sign their name?
(49:56):
You'll fill them out later andyou'll send them in, not, so
what does your absentee ballot?
And I'm going to ask you thesame question, mr Smith what
does your absentee ballotingstrategy look like?
I know in 2017 that you got alot of them and it helped you
win that race.
You may not win re-electionwithout the absentee margin that
(50:17):
you got in 2017.
That's just math.
Who's doing it?
How's it being done?
Are you paying anybody to do it?
Speaker 7 (50:24):
I'm asking you straight up, doc, that's illegal
to pay anybody to get absentee.
I love my grandkids.
I got three beautiful grandkidsout in Houston, texas.
I love my wife.
So no, I'm not paying nobody toget no absentee.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Okay, alright.
So in 2017, the last time youhad an opponent, you were losing
on election day.
You lost at the ballot box.
He got you by three votes 180to 177.
That's correct, and you got him178 to 15 on absentees, okay,
okay.
So what happened there for thatto happen and how does your
(51:04):
absentee strategy this time?
Speaker 7 (51:05):
look different than it did eight years ago.
I haven't nothing.
First, the strategy hasn'tnothing changed.
I mean, are we saying we'regoing to disenfranchise people
from voting?
Speaker 1 (51:11):
No, not at all.
Speaker 7 (51:12):
Because they're senior citizens.
No, not at all, and they're notable to leave their house, so
they don't have a right to vote.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Right.
I think they have a right, butthey like you a lot better than
they like your opponentshistorically.
So why is that?
Let me ask the question thatway.
Speaker 7 (51:28):
Well, you have to understand, Zach, that I'm the
first minority to win Ward 2.
When I won it in 09, a minorityhave never held that seat.
So I came into a new era, a newterritory, so the people just
felt close to me.
You think that's still the case?
Oh, yes, I got my supportersOkay, I got my supporters.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
What about you, Mr Smith?
Speaker 6 (51:53):
Well how you ask Councilman Meekins about it?
When I received a phone callabout the same thing, saying
he's going around picking upthat seat ballot, I told the
person that called me I'm notgoing to deal, I'm not worrying
about it.
I got my game plan, my strategy.
(52:13):
Do I have people getting out,getting absentees?
No, but we do have a game planon people that's working or
going to be out of town.
So we're getting them up thereif they're going to be out of
town and however the absenteefall, that's how they fall.
But I just feel like the goodLord is going to be on my side.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
You challenged their residency.
You lost in front of the partyexecutive committee.
You took it all the way to thecircuit court and lost again.
Now you told me on the record.
We had it in the paper.
You said you know I still thinkI was right, but I'm going to
run my campaign.
How did it affect your groundgame to have those challenges
(52:54):
during the time you needed to berunning for office?
Like, do you feel like thataffected your ground game?
Speaker 7 (53:00):
Well, that was part of the strategy from the
committee.
I knew it.
I know the chair of thatcommittee.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
I know them.
Speaker 5 (53:08):
well, I know them well and I know how they operate
.
Speaker 7 (53:12):
That was the strategy get me over here, so I don't be
out here.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Why'd you fall for it ?
Why'd you take the ballot I?
Speaker 7 (53:17):
didn't fall for it.
I want you to understand.
I didn't fall for it.
Okay, I believe what I wassaying was true.
Okay, and I stand for what isright.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Did you lose weeks of your campaign trying to get
them off the ballot?
Speaker 7 (53:30):
My answer to you is like this.
You said I lost in the court.
I'm getting back to my paststory now.
Speaker 4 (53:36):
Jesus lost in the court Now.
Jesus never loses.
Speaker 7 (53:41):
I said he lost in the court.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Let's be clear.
Speaker 7 (53:44):
In the court.
Huh, they found him guilty inthe court.
Okay, be clear.
In the court, huh, they foundhim guilty in the court.
Okay, okay, hear what I'msaying now.
They found him guilty and thepenalty was death.
Okay, huh.
But, early Sunday morning,mickens.
Rose so late Tuesday night.
No late Tuesday night, mickenswill be victorious.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
Let me ask you this why is Kareem the Pharisee and
why is he after you?
Speaker 7 (54:07):
to start with, Well, that's another conversation.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
All right, should we close it?
Speaker 7 (54:14):
You get him up here and then me and him will talk
about that.
Okay, all right, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
One question that I meant to shift over to you and
didn't and I think, out offairness, I definitely want to.
I asked him what threeinitiatives he would bring forth
.
What are your first threemotions, your first three
initiatives, if you'rere-elected for this time?
Speaker 7 (54:36):
he was right on his number one, public safety.
You know, we brought in, Ithink, one of the best, chief
daltrey.
I want you to understandsomething here.
He was the chief of police overthe state of Mississippi.
This council hired him.
Okay, we hired him.
He was the chief of police overall the cities in the state of
(54:58):
Mississippi.
We brought him here the yearbefore he came.
The homicide was at 13.
Had 13 homicide Last year,being cut it down to about four
or five, and out of them four orfive, he has caught three of
them.
So the process is working.
Infrastructure trying to bringnew jobs in we're paving 71% of
(55:20):
the streets are being paved,most and all the wards now I
think in Ward 4, about 80% havebeen paved.
The infrastructure is great.
The drainage problem the waterbeing flooded out in these
clumbers we have rectified thatproblem, but we're still going
to continue to do better.
But I think we're on the righttrack.
Speaker 4 (55:40):
All about the money.
Huh, all about the money.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Yeah, anything either one of y'all want to add before
we go.
Speaker 6 (55:50):
I just want to remind all the constituents of ward
two that when you wake uptuesday morning at seven o'clock
, make sure you go out to theeast columbus gym or the
fairview elementary school andvote for roderick smith for ward
two, city councilman and votefor Roderick Smith award to city
council.
Speaker 4 (56:09):
Well, I'm just incredibly thankful that both of
you guys have come on the showtoday.
It's been a wild ride.
Thank you to the listeners.
You've been listening toBetween the Headlines.
What are you doing?
Be sure to like share and rateGet out of here.
Oh yeah, and don't forget tojoin our conversation.
(56:30):
Send your comments to tips atcdispatchcom.
Again, that is tips atcdispatchcom.
Or you can follow me onFacebook or X at the Chisholm 00
.
Signing off from Catfish AlleyStudio in historic downtown
Columbus.
Your host has been Zach Playerand I am David Chisholm, so
(56:51):
until next time, y'all keep itfriendly and we will keep it
real.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Opinions expressed on this show are those of the
speakers and not necessarilythose of the Commercial Dispatch
.
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:38):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now Between the Headlinesthat.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
And now, between the Headlines Today on Between the
Headlines, a teacher breaks thegag order and goes public in an
effort to stop the steel andultimate demise of MSMS.
And all eyes on Highway 45North.
As we break down the Ward 6Republican Forum between Jason
Spears and Kim McCarty DavisPlus Leroy Brooks outraises
(01:13):
Stephen Jones In a margin ofthree to one.
Zach and I break down thecampaign numbers.
And, last but not least, you donot want to miss the in-studio
interview with candidates fromWard 2.
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And now a message frompolitical candidate Bill Strauss
.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
I want to thank the Commercial Dispatch for this
podcast, bringing differentviews in an open discussion.
I'm Bill Strauss, humbly askingfor your vote as next mayor of
Columbus.
You deserve transparency andaccountability for your tax
dollars.
I'm business friendly andcharitable.
Vote Bill Strauss Mayor ofColumbus 2025.
Paid for by campaign to electBill Strauss.
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And now a message from political candidate Jason
Spears.
Speaker 5 (02:55):
I am Jason Spears candidate for City Council, Ward
6.
Over the past 20 years, Ifaithfully and effectively
served our community in manydifferent ways.
If elected, I will bringstructure and strategy to the
city's finances, help develop ablueprint to capitalize on the
growing economic activity in ourcity and work to strengthen
relationships with LowndesCounty officials, the Golden
Triangle Development Link and,most importantly, you, the
(03:16):
citizens of Columbus.
I approve this message and, onApril 1st, vote Jason Spears for
Ward 6, paid for by thecampaign to elect Jason Spears.
Vote Jason Spears for Ward 6.
Paid for by the campaign toelect Jason Spears.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Thanks for joining us today.
You are listening to Betweenthe Headlines hosted by the
raging Razorback and managingeditor of the commercial
dispatch, woo pig suey, mr ZachPlayer, and I am David Chisholm.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
First headline today what?
Speaker 4 (03:47):
would you do with $30,000,?
David, I don't think I wouldspend it locally.
Look, I'm all about localbusiness, but with that kind of
money I might just take themoney and run and do something
fun.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Well, leroy's trying to win the mayor's race with it.
That's how much, or very nearlyhow much.
He got very close to $29,000 inhis contributions on his
pre-primary election or campaignfinance report.
Speaker 4 (04:11):
Good chunk of change.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Yep, that's compared to Stephen Jones $11,000.
$3,000 of his came from his ownpocket and came from an
itemized contribution from hiswife.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
Okay, so let's break that down.
One could easily say that alack of outside monetary support
equals a lack of support ingeneral.
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
I don't know if that's true.
I think that there's definitelybeen elections that we've seen,
especially on the local level,but even on the state and
federal level, where the highestfundraiser did not win.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
Yeah, I was on one of those actually, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
I didn't mean to hit you low on that.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
That's all right.
I didn't realize.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
I did so I want to take a look at a couple of
things here.
Yes, dollars help, but theydon't vote.
Yes, dollars help but theydon't vote.
It's hard to tell the relativestrength of a candidate's
chances of winning on moneyalone, for the reasons that
we've already talked about.
But the thing I'm surprisedabout, when you look at Leroy's
contributors he got a good chunkof change from all these
(05:20):
Democratic PACs.
Stephen didn't get any PACmoney.
I was very surprised to see howanemic his campaign receipts
were.
I wasn't surprised to see thatLeroy had raised a lot of money.
We'd heard that already.
But I thought that that marginwas going to be smaller.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Well, the thing about it is the margin between the
two of them.
Right, you have to form arelationship with the do-gooders
of society.
Okay, you have to know people.
Now, he knows people, butthey're not giving him money,
and that matters.
Well, I mean, is he?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
asking that.
When I saw that I was like isStephen asking anybody for money
?
Is he just think it's going tofall out of the sky?
Because I mean, leroy's clearlyasking for people for money
because he knows that that'simportant.
Stephen knows that that'simportant and so either people
are telling him no thanks orhe's not asking, and that seems
(06:14):
to.
If people are saying no, thatdoes speak to the strength of
his support.
If he's not asking, that speaksto a naivete that I didn't
realize that he still had.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Well, you've got to have money to run a campaign,
there's no question about it.
Now, granted, there are somepeople that are going to read
the newspapers and they justhave a very crass negative
attitude about it and they say,well, let's see who's bought
so-and-so.
I mean, there's just people outthere.
Let's be real, any campaignmoney is dirty money.
(06:47):
Okay, that's just the way theysee it, as if to say, every
politician out there should befully self-funded.
Well, if that's the way that itruns, then only the richest of
the rich are going to do thiskind of work.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
And that would be awful.
But I mean a lot of thecandidates do self-fund and that
was another thing that Inoticed, you know, jason Spears,
even though he's in Ward 6,even though he's quote-unquote
outraised Kimberly McCarty Davis2-1, two-thirds of his money is
coming out of his own pocket.
(07:20):
Then you look at Ms Davis andall of her money's third party
but it's come from out of out ofthe area, it's come from out of
town, out of state.
So I thought that was a weirddynamic too that can be
troubling to some people.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
Again, you you've got to go through these forms and
and look at the details, see whoit is, see what their interests
are.
And there are some entities outthere that just like to give
money, just to have skin in thegame, even though they don't
really feel like they're goingto get something in return.
I mean, and frankly, it'sillegal and morally wrong to
(08:01):
make promises.
If you give this much money,then I'm going to push this
particular issue.
That's not how it works.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I mean a lot of people, and maybe this is my
naivete.
A lot of people give tocampaigns because they like the
guy, yeah, or they want to seethe guy win, or the lady.
A couple of other observationshere, going back to the mayor's
race.
You did not see Harry Sanderson Leroy's itemized receipt.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
I was disappointed not to see that.
That would have been quite thefodder to bring into this studio
today, but nope.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Last thing I wanted to talk about on campaign
finance, before we move onlooking at the expenditures.
Now, everybody up and down theline as I'm looking through
these expenditures, it's thestandard fare.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
Now, you talked about signs, and on the way to the
studio today, I stopped andlooked at a banner by Shishi
O'Neill, and her banner did, infact, have the disclaimer in the
corner that it was paid for bythe campaign to elect Laisha
O'Neill, however.
(09:11):
However, if I'm lookingcorrectly at this report, she
filed one and it had a bunch ofzeros on it All zeros.
She neither collected nor spentmoney.
Therefore, one must ask wherecame these signs from?
Well, maybe it's self-funded,but you're still supposed to
report that.
You should Look.
(09:32):
I need to cast an aspersion onthat because that's a violation.
You have to disclose that, evenif the signs are given to you,
you have to report that as adonation.
Yeah, as a donation, as anin-kind donation.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
And we also need to note that there were, I believe,
three candidates who didn'tfile a report and were supposed
to.
That would have been SequelaClark and Cedric fenster in ward
five and tommy smith in wardtwo.
They both in contest or they'reall three in contested
(10:12):
primaries didn't file a report.
That's against the law and I'mone of these people.
If you can't if you can't checkyour boxes like you're supposed
to check them, you ought not tobe in the race.
But that that's a hot take?
No, it's, that's not.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Listen.
If you hide informationrelating to your campaign
financing, what else are youwilling to sweep under the rug?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Those rules are not.
Whatever rules do exist there,they're not enforced.
So there's no other than thehonor system.
And when you've got people whoare running for office that
don't that, don't file theirforms, that's a load of bull and
do better.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Well, if they ran for a state office, I can tell you
from experience that if you areone day late licking the postage
stamp, you're going to get anice fancy letter from the
Ethics Commission with anenvelope expecting a $50 fine
per day.
So obviously it's a differentkettle of fish here on the local
level.
But again, what else will yousweep under the rug?
(11:11):
You have to be not justtransparent, but actively
transparent with this stuff.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Well, moving on to your little shimmy again.
Republican Forum you had forWard 6, you had Jason Spears and
Kimberly McCarty.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
Davis, fine festive occasion.
They both arrived early, and sowe had some good, interesting
small talk and fellowshipbeforehand, and then, at the
appointed hour, we went on theair live by Facebook, and I
think they both came out aswinners.
Now I know I'm supposed to saythat because I'm the Republican
(11:48):
chair, kimberly Davis was thebetter Republican.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Okay, jason Spears was the better candidate, and
let me explain what I mean.
Interesting, she painted apicture of Columbus.
You know this nostalgic pictureof, you know, my childhood,
where things were fine, and youknow this nostalgic picture of,
you know, my childhood, wherethings were fine.
And you know the Democrats, theevil, fiendish Democrats hadn't
(12:11):
, you know, taken over the cityand allegedly torn it down yet.
But we're going to restore that.
We'll make Columbus great againand we're going to do it.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Boy, your definition of a Republican is really going
over my head right now.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Okay.
So here my critique of her isthis, I think, as a campaign
tactic, focus them very stronglyon that nostalgia, focus them
very strongly on the idea thatyou know Ward 6, we in Ward 6
invest all of this tax money, webuilt this town.
Yeah, we built this town.
(12:47):
We should get our share of thattax money back as an investment
.
Never they mind the fact that'snot how tax money really works,
but that plays well.
Jason's was a little broader.
It didn't use any sort ofcoding or any sort of
implication that there is an usand a them.
(13:08):
He did advocate for his wardfor certain things, but he
stayed away from sort of that.
You know, columbus used to bethis wonderful place and then
now that's been taken away andI'm going to, if I'm put on the
council, I'm going to help youreclaim it.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
So you felt that Jason was more current.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I thought that Jason was.
I think that Jason demonstratedthat, while he is a
conservative and while he wouldemploy conservative values as a
councilman, that it wouldn'tmatter as much to him what ward
something was built in or whodirectly benefited or where tax
(13:46):
money is spent, as long as itwas a good idea.
He seemed to be somebody thatrecognized a good idea could
come from Mickens, a good ideacould come from Pierre and if
it's a good idea and the numberssupport it, I'll vote with it.
He demonstrates more of thatwillingness and capability than
(14:07):
does, for example, the sittingWard 6 Councilwoman, and I think
that Kimberly whether she'sreally like that or not I think
that she did present on somelevel, sort of a Jackie 2.0
vision of what that seat'ssupposed to be.
Speaker 4 (14:26):
You are listening to Between the Headlines.
Next on our agenda today theFacebook post by Dr LeVar Pierce
.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Well, we've got a couple of things here.
We've got a Facebook post andwe've got the kids weighing in.
We've got the survey.
This is big.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
This is underrated stuff here.
Before we came into the studio,which was about an hour ago,
that the particular post ofwhich we speak had 153 shares.
So it's out there, and it's notjust local.
This thing is making its wayaround the state, which is a
beautiful thing, beautiful,beautiful beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Can you break down the post a little bit for us
Okay?
Speaker 4 (15:06):
so I've got it open right here.
I'm not going to read it.
Her name is Lori LeVar Pierce.
Brilliant lady, speaks severaldifferent languages and teaches
at the school.
She basically breaks it downwho the players are, what's been
happening, and it really getssalty toward the end of it.
That's what I really enjoy here.
(15:27):
She says one thing of note thatthese kids have chosen to
separate themselves, that thisis not a regular high school.
She says that teachers arepolishing their resumes and are
looking into their retirementoptions.
(15:47):
She even puts in there that thelegislative mood is to close
MUW.
So this is a pretty fiery thingcoming from an insider.
Up until now, the people thatI've spoken with at both MUW and
MSMS have been very middle ofthe road, very professional.
(16:09):
Not that this is unprofessional, but they've just been not
wanting to take a side for fearof retribution.
But in an act of valor andcourage, this particular woman
has stepped up here to the plate, and the word is getting out as
a result of it.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I think the student experience is something that has
been not entirely ignored butcertainly not included in the
conversation to the extent thatit has been.
Look at this post and a surveyof students that it was printed
(16:49):
first in the vision, the studentnewspaper at msms, and we
reprinted it, uh, in thedispatch this week.
That show, you know, a vast,vast majority of the ones of the
of the students they'resurveyed.
93 percent of the ones who tookthe survey.
You know, preferred msms at muw, so I got a couple of points
here.
One I totally get the stressthat everybody is feeling at
(17:12):
MSMS and I felt terrible forthem this whole time.
Everybody from the legislatureto people at MUW, to people for
Tripp and Keith and us we're alltalking about it and they're
having to go to class and teachand learn in an environment
where, you know, third partiesare just going at them and I
(17:38):
feel bad about that.
And I think that thelegislature and the other people
involved, even if they thinkthat an MSU move is the best,
they need to take intoconsideration that the impact of
this conversation beingprotracted and not having a
clear end and being dealt withbehind closed doors a lot of
(18:03):
times and then, oh, here's a newthing that affects these people
and affects these people'slives.
But, um, well, the start that'sgo ahead.
Speaker 4 (18:12):
I'm sorry the, the state board of education.
They open their meeting with alovely prayer and they they have
all this flowery talk about howeverything we do may everything
we do cause great things tohappen for our students.
It's all about the students,it's not about anything else.
Good grief, you're going to sayit's all about the students,
(18:35):
but at the same time think thesestudents are too dumb to have
their own opinion.
Not consult the students, notlisten to them, not bring them
in the conversation?
Maybe have a couple of honoraryboard members who are students
to make things look better thanthey are, but this I mean I mean
seriously, though why was MSMSleft out of this conversation?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
The survey is interesting to me because it
affirms what we already knewMSMS does an incredible job,
right where it is, despite theobstacles the facilities face
and really despite what the youknow the public pressure on that
place has been for the pastcouple of years, they continue
to do a good job right wherethey are.
(19:21):
You know MSU the MSU part ofthis is an identity changer to
MSMS.
For me, the SHS part is anidentity destroyer for MSMS, and
so here's who that's going tobe.
You know you've got kids acrossthe state who may be applying
in three years, four years, fiveyears to MSMS based on the
(19:43):
identity it's always had basedon the reputation that it's
always had, based on the vibethat it's always had, only to
arrive to campus to discoverthat that identity is completely
gone.
So this arranged marriagebetween SOCSD and MSU it's going
to wash away MSMS's independentidentity completely and I can't
see where it doesn't hisindependent identity completely
(20:08):
and I can't see where it doesn't.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
Um, I think the athletic component of the msms
combination with starkville,october hawk county school
district is a real thing.
Especially when you look atthat drawing and don't see ball
fields on the drawing, I meanthey're gonna either, they're
still gonna have, though, and ifthey can get where they're
going to bus them across thecity.
I just that's not going to fly.
(20:28):
But I've got to tell you thisyou and I talk about this like
it's a done deal.
This has to go to thelegislator.
The legislature within mereally believes that if enough
people get the word out which ishappening that this can be
(20:55):
defeated and we can come up witha strategy and a funding idea
that will fix the problem, thatis, the facilities for MSMS,
right here where it is Maintainthe school's identity.
Maintain the identity, save theschool, save the university and
save Lowndes County and Columbus.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It can happen.
You know you got a year, so usethe year.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I say we do, unless they put some kind of crazy
thing on the end of a bill,which would be wild but any old
how?
Keep the fight, y'all.
Keep talking to your lawmakersand let's not let this
conversation leave the tableunattended.
All right, well, that's that.
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(22:41):
And now the mail.
We have a message from noneother than Robert Johnson IV.
He says is in order as to why Idropped out of the race and
rejoined.
I thought I could achieve mygoals as a private citizen by
backing a candidate and pushingmy ideas.
However, after speaking withCouncilman Beard and Mr Turner,
(23:06):
I realized our ward fourcouncilman options were badly
inadequate.
Mr Turner asked me to stay outof his way.
Councilman Beard didn't knowthe boundaries of his own ward.
He did not even know thatSandfield Cemetery was in his
ward.
Ward 4 has been forgottenbecause of poor leadership, and
(23:28):
I am in this to help turn thingsaround.
That comes from Republicancandidate Robert Johnson IV.
We thank you for listening andsending us that message.
All right, so now we haveguests the candidates for Ward 2
.
Let's bring them in.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Joining us in the studio today two of the three
candidates for Ward 2 councilmen.
We've got the incumbent, pastorJoseph Mickens, and we've got
Democratic challenger RoderickSmith.
Thank you for joining us in thestudio today.
Speaker 7 (23:59):
Nice to be here.
Speaker 1 (24:01):
All right, and a note I know that Laisha, ms Shishi
O'Neill, is also running in thisprimary.
We reached out to her, invitedher.
She said she'd try her best tobe here but work obligations may
prohibit her from showing, andthat must have been what
happened.
We'll start with you guys andstart with a softball.
(24:21):
Let you both answer it.
Start with you, roderick, whyare you the best candidate for
Ward 2?
Speaker 6 (24:26):
I feel like I'm the bridge between the youth and our
city officials in the city ofColumbus youth and our city
officials in the city ofColumbus.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Okay, kind of explain for me how that, why you feel
that way and how you think as acouncilman, you're going to use
that bridge to accomplish things.
Speaker 6 (24:47):
Okay, I feel like I can relate to the young people.
Being from Columbus, being ayoung age age 32, I can relate
to what they feel needs tohappen in Columbus and I can
also be their voice where theyfeel sometimes we don't have
(25:08):
that voice in the city ofColumbus.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Okay, and you, mr Mickens.
Speaker 7 (25:12):
Ask the question.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Why do you think you're the best candidate for
Ward 2?
Speaker 7 (25:17):
Well, first of all, in this race, I have more
experience than any candidate inthe race, whether it's mayor or
whichever ward they're runningin.
In city government, I'm afull-term city councilman.
I've been all over the country.
I've met peoples terms citycouncilman.
(25:38):
I've been all over the country,I've met peoples.
And when you're talking aboutcity government, running city
government, one word sticks outexperience.
Experience is crucial.
When you're talking now, Toomuch is going on now for all
these changes to come about.
I hear what my colleague issaying with the younger people,
but we do have younger peopleson the council.
The council is a collectivebody.
(26:00):
In other words, where one mightbe strong in this area, another
one might be strong in anotherarea.
So it's not like we're notreaching out to the younger
folks.
We are, but we're just doing itin a different way.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Okay, I want to dive in on the four-term incumbent
part.
You and I have talked severaltimes.
There's obviously been courtchallenges and everything else
with this.
So two questions here.
As a four-term incumbent,you're running a really hard
(26:32):
race.
You seem pretty worried aboutthis race for being the most
experienced person in it.
And two, why is I mean thisrace has been I mean,
objectively uglier than any ofthe rest of them in a lot of
ways, especially in a publicperception way.
(26:53):
So both of those questions whyare you so worried about this
one and why has this been sougly?
Speaker 7 (27:00):
Well, first of all, zach, I beg to differ.
I'm not worried.
Okay, I say that, you know?
I mean, do I think I have someopponent, a valuable opponent,
against me?
And Mr Smith, yes, I do.
I mean, when and take this theright way when mr trump won
presidency, nobody saw that.
Some didn't see this coming in2016.
(27:22):
So what I'm saying is we aretaking nothing for granted, okay
.
Okay, they can be newcomer tothe game, whether they got
experience or not.
I'm not taking mr smith forgranted.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Okay, I'm doing everything I can so you're going
with that old adage there.
There's only two ways to runscared and unopposed.
Speaker 7 (27:40):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
Mr Mickens, I want to follow up on something you said
about your four-term experience.
There's a lot of people thatare worried that the city has
not headed the right directionfinancially.
We've got an amphitheaterthat's unfinished and there's
just a lot of things that arecausing a lot of angst among
people, whether that be drainageissues or weeds growing up
(28:04):
through the sidewalks.
If experience equates goodnessin terms of being a council
member, where has the attitudegone awry?
Speaker 7 (28:18):
Good question.
I deal with the amphitheater.
Well, my address I issued thatone of my colleagues brought up
at the last debate that I wasn'table to make it to.
One of them said that the city,we don't have no money.
One of them made that statement, but I just want to address
what she made.
(28:39):
She didn't make the statementsaying that we don't have no
money.
She was making the statementcompared to the other candidate
that's running.
They're going to do this andthey're going to do that.
She was saying we don't havemoney to do all of this Right
now.
We're sitting on $31 million.
Hear what I'm saying.
$31 million About $20 millionis already allocated out.
Okay, so that's going to leaveoff with $10 million that we got
(29:01):
in reserve right now thismorning.
So what they're telling me?
Yeah, we got to pay payroll.
That can be some more million,but what I'm saying is, since
I've been on the council in 2009and started running in 2005, I
remember when Mr Wade was here.
Mr Wade had $6 million inreserve.
Jeffrey Ruff ran through it inno time.
Y'all know the story.
I ain't got to go further.
(29:21):
What I'm saying is we havenever had this much money in
reserve and this council have agreat deal to do with this $10
million that we have in reserveright now.
First, the amphitheater.
We got plans for theamphitheater.
We can talk to Region Bank.
They agreed to give us a loanand somebody said well what,
(29:42):
y'all going to put some moreskin in the game?
Yes, we're going to put somemore skin in the game.
If we have to invest another1.5, the amphitheater, we'll get
dead.
We'll get done.
I ain't gotten flooded fivetimes.
Get done.
I ain't gotten flooded fivetimes.
I'm a lifelong resident of Ward2.
Lifelong I ain't got floodedfive times.
Did I move?
No, I did not.
(30:03):
What did I do?
I stayed there and fought forthe citizen of Ward 2 until we
got degraded.
We built a ditch on the back ofBeach and Taylor.
That cost me $100,000.
That big concrete ditch I did.
That Paving in the city is upto in my street.
71% of the street is paved inmy ward.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Okay, so a point of clarification on what Ms Stewart
said at the debate.
I was there.
She said, and I quote we'rebroke, no we're not broke.
Speaker 7 (30:36):
We're not broke, we're not broke.
I just want to address itsomewhat.
You can call Jim Briggs andhe'll tell you just the same
thing.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I've covered the financial status.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
We are not broke.
I know what it is.
Yeah, we're not broke.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
Okay, well, mr Smith, I want to talk about.
We asked him about theexperience question, so I want
to turn it to you here.
You've got limited experiencewith the city and not any in
city government, and there areissues like finances,
(31:13):
infrastructure, paving, drainage.
You know personnel, you knowjust the general politics of
operating on a council like this.
How, I guess, are you ready totake on those things that you
know, maybe go beyond thingsthat you've directly done in
your experience?
Speaker 6 (31:28):
Okay, well, once elected because I'm thinking
positively too Once elected, youknow I'll sit down, I'll look
at the finances and thepersonnel and we'll just go from
there, just take it one day ata time and go through the next
(31:48):
and everything of the citygovernment.
We'll just improve as we can.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
All right.
Well, one of the things thatkeeps coming up is the
amphitheater.
Do you have a position on that?
Speaker 6 (31:59):
Once I get there, I'm willing to work with all of my
colleagues and all the othercity councilmen and whoever the
mayor may be, and we'll go fromthere, come up with a good game
plan and we'll go for whatever'sbest for the city of Columbus.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Roderick, is there something that you would have
done differently than yourpredecessors?
Just looking at the issues thatwe've spoken about already, or
maybe is there other issues thatyou're seeing, specific to your
ward, that you think need totake on a new direction?
Speaker 6 (32:36):
Well, one thing I wish what could have been done
and I'm not just going to sayit's one person I wish the
council, in the mayor, couldhave had a better relationship.
I'm not saying it was onecouncilman or the other
councilman or, in particular,the mayor.
As leaders of Columbus, nomatter who it is, whether we
(32:59):
black, white, blue, orange,green or purple we got to work
together and not only just thecity leaders.
The county leaders got to workwith the city leaders also
because, at the end of the day,Columbus is the biggest city or
town in Lyons County.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Columbus is the biggest city or town in Lyles
County.
Well, councilman Mickens, tohis point, you guys haven't
gotten along with the mayor andwe've discussed why on the
record before the communicationissues and different things, or
certain employees for thatmatter.
And so right now you'restanding with Stephen in this
(33:42):
race for mayor, but there arethree other candidates running.
Say you're reelected into Ward2 and Stephen isn't the mayor.
Does the next four years looklike the last four years?
Looked like the last four years?
Speaker 7 (33:52):
have, if you go back to 2021, the first after the
mayor came in, he did histhree-month assessment.
So the mayor did histhree-month assessment in
September of 2021, and he did itat Lyons Hill, and the
statement he made there that daywas that Jones and Mickens
should not have been unopposed.
(34:14):
I'm going to make sure thatthey have somebody running
against them the next turn.
What I'm saying is he came inon the wrong footnote.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (34:24):
He came in might as well say, threatening the two
councilmen, that we're going torun somebody against them.
That's where we're at right now.
So what I'm saying is Gasson isnot the issue.
Okay, mail gassing is not theissue.
My answer to your question foryou is if Stephen don't come
(34:45):
back, whichever mail, come backand take this the right way.
It will be an improvement forwhat we got.
Yes, we're going to work withthe next mail.
If it's Mr Leach, we're goingto work with the next mayor.
If it's Mr Leach, we're goingto work with him.
We don't run the day-to-day andpeople are getting confused.
We don't run the day-to-dayoperation.
That's the mayor.
A lot of issues that we werefighting with if we had had
somebody there with a mindset.
(35:07):
But what I'm saying is, whenyou put somebody inexperienced
in these positions, that's whatyou get.
He was not prepared for mayor.
He was not a politician.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Well, let's say, we get Leroy Brooks in there, who's
a very experienced politician.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Y'all aren't getting along Well they're not.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
Well look.
He's also said y'all, we needto clean house.
And in his colorful way, he'sbasically said that he would be
in favor of a whole new slate ofcandidates.
So is he also starting on thewrong foot?
Speaker 7 (35:43):
Yes, he is, but I'll tell you this, Mr Chilton, you
learn from your mistake.
But do the city have to sufferbecause the council is not doing
what they're supposed to do?
This time we're putting thecity before the council.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
So whoever wins, mel, is there ways y'all could have
done that better?
Speaker 7 (36:05):
Monday morning quarterback.
Zach, I mean, you always canlook at things that happen.
You could have done differentor done better.
Yeah, there's some things thatI should have did and some
things that I shouldn't havedone.
I agree with that.
What?
Speaker 1 (36:15):
are some things that I should have did and some
things that I shouldn't havedone.
I agree with that.
Speaker 7 (36:18):
What are some things you shouldn't have done?
You think I mean some of theissues.
The Pros Park issue that wetried to invest $4.4 million in.
The mayor vetoed it.
So after he vetoed it it failed.
We voted it down again.
Then he started a petition.
Then he couldn't get the $1,hundred signature so he got shot
down again.
In between that, if I had to doover, I would have went to him
(36:40):
and said let's talk, let's talk,let's talk.
We better than this, we betterthan this, let's see what we can
do.
Some of the things, as a seniorelected official, I could have
stepped up to the plate a littlebit more.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Okay, well now, roderick, you're involved in the
youth sports, you're involvedin rec.
You're deeply invested,personally, into Probst Park and
the city's park system.
Should the city have borrowed$3 million to improve that park?
Speaker 6 (37:20):
I would say yeah, because Pros Park and this may
be a little biased, because Iwas raised in Pros Park through
the ballpark system so improvingPros Park, I do feel like it
was something that should havebeen done.
Also, on that same note, I feellike if the county and the city
(37:45):
would have been together, itwould have been a different
outlook on the whole entiresituation of parking recreation.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
I couldn't agree more with that statement in the
sense that really and truly,what you had was a duplicate
effort between the county andthe city.
You know multiple out Now look,I also played a lot when I was
a child at Probst Park, but Ialso have sense enough to know
that that thing floods a lot andif you put expensive turf out
(38:16):
there and it gets wet and startsfloating up, you've got a mess
bigger than the amphitheater.
So you know again, I'm on thevery, very unpopular side of
that particular issue.
I've always said we need tojust sell that thing to public
outcry.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
But then Stephen Jones.
Speaker 4 (38:33):
He said man, you can't do that, who's going to
buy it?
It's down there as it is.
So well, roderick uh you?
Speaker 1 (38:40):
um, I don't, how familiar are you with the new
parks plan, the parks plan thatneil schaefer put together for
the city and the county, and howfamiliar are you with it?
And, uh, what do you thinkabout it?
Speaker 6 (38:53):
oh Well, I hadn't, you know, familiarized myself
with it a whole lot just yet.
I have been, you know, watchingthe news and reading up on some
of it.
But you know, once I'm elected,you know I'll dig deeper into
it.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Okay, councilman Mickens, you talked about
unforced errors a while ago.
I want to revisit two.
One for which you've apologizedpublicly.
Something that Leroy Brooks, inhis mayoral campaign, has hit
you over the head with over andover again and other people have
criticized you for, was yourhandling of Kenny Weigel in that
(39:32):
meeting when y'all were tryingto hire somebody who will become
his replacement, and also thethe issues with Susan Wilder in
the arguing over that grant andwhether to apply for it.
Talk me through kind of Mondaymorning quarterback that for me
(39:57):
and tell me if you think it'ssomething that may hurt you.
Speaker 7 (40:01):
Well, you called me pastor when you began, so let me
be that pastor right now.
Okay, the word says if a personasks you to forgive them, peter
said should I forgive themthree times?
No, jesus said 70 times three.
In other words, if Austin asks,he do it.
So once I apologize, I put thatbehind me.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Okay, and it was done .
That's what.
Speaker 7 (40:26):
I'm asking it was done in the public opinion.
My colleague on the council,mrs DeCicco, and Mr Green they
appalled me that evening Said Ilook at you different.
What you did you showed me whoyou really are.
Most people wouldn't have cameback and apologized Not in a
public setting.
It happened in a public setting.
So it's happened in a publicsetting.
So I apologize to him.
And you're talking about the MrWeigel.
(40:47):
Mr Weigel, and I want you toknow something now Kenny Weigel,
I don't think is a betterinspector.
It had nothing to do with himpersonally.
Right, okay, it's not a betterinspector in the state of
Mississippi than Kenny.
Kenny know his job.
I wish we could keep Kennythere for a long time with the
illness with his wife.
I begged him don't leave rightnow, because he needed the
insurance.
I said stay on, kenny, becauseyou need the insurance for your
(41:11):
wife and I think she is doingbetter now.
Now the other issue with MsWilder.
I think I chaired the meetingthat day and, if I'm not correct
and what I said was it didn'thappen, we are not going to vote
to rescind it.
My opinion I said I don't haveno vote this morning, but my
opinion is to just let it ride,let it come back.
(41:31):
Did I not say that that morning?
Speaker 3 (41:33):
That's what I said, so with her.
Speaker 7 (41:36):
What happened with that was the mayor went around
the back door and he put MsWilder in a bad position.
Not the council, Mayor Gaskindid that.
He put her in a bad position tobe in to choose between him and
the council.
You don't put your employees inthat position Because the vote
(41:58):
had been passed and once it getsin the minutes, we operate with
the minutes.
We don't operate on whatMickham said or what I think,
Jones or Beard or Ms Stewart orMr Green or Mr Seacole or Mayor
Gaskin.
We operate when we call MsMitchell, Can you read the men's
back and the men state theywere voted down.
So once it got voted down, thenthe mayor did not have the
(42:18):
authority to override thatmotion and that's what he did
and he put her in a bad position.
We love Ms Wilder man.
This is one of the most giftedladies that we could have got
for a grant writer.
This lady worked for PresidentBush.
I mean, she'd been all up in DCworking.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Well, do you think she's very happy in her spot
right now?
Now, let me say I don't knowthe answer to this question.
I haven't talked to her aboutit.
Do you think she's very happyin her position right now that
she's had a couple of publicdressing downs and a dressing
down and executive session fromyou guys?
Speaker 7 (42:47):
Well, executive session didn't really come as a
dressing down.
I'm limited to say whathappened.
Well, she came out of thatthing crying.
Oh, you're talking about thatday, yeah.
Well, I'm talking about thelast time when she, after it had
passed by a couple weeks Well,females can be a little there
was no harsh words said to her.
(43:09):
I'll put it to you like that.
There was no harsh words saidto her.
The word was directed to MrGasson.
She just got full and was upsetand she just wanted the whole
thing.
The lady never been in thistype of situation before.
She wasn't used to that type ofpressure on her.
You know what I'm saying, but Ithink she's going to stay with
us.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Despite the fact that she's worked for a president,
she's good and we want her tostay with us, okay.
Speaker 4 (43:31):
Roderick, do you see any mishaps in the way that the
current council has beenhandling personnel and do you
have anything in your backgroundor perhaps in your career that
might make you better fit tohandle personnel issues and
staff and things of that nature?
Speaker 6 (43:49):
Well, the first thing , I mean you got to be able to
know how to talk to people.
I mean we all—.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
Do you think Ms Wilder was—well, you weren't
there.
I won't ask you that.
Go ahead.
Speaker 6 (43:58):
I mean we all—at the end of the day, we all adults.
I mean we have to treat eachother as such.
I mean we have to treat eachother as such, like just because
a police officer come up to usor come up to me and I'm the
city councilman, I mean I can'tbelittle them.
I mean just because I'm theirboss, I mean it's the right way
(44:22):
and the wrong way to doeverything.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Leaving like the recreation and the youth space,
and thinking about the city inbroader terms.
What are three things that youwould like to see the city do?
Speaker 6 (44:40):
What are three initiatives that you would like
to propose as a councilman ifyou're elected?
Well, the first one is publicsafety.
Public safety we need to helprecruit and retain our you know
police department firefighters,because every day, you know,
there's competitors out heretrying to get our qualified
(45:03):
firefighters and police officersfrom the city of Columbus, and
one reason for that is money.
The second thing that I'm goingto work for and work hard at is
getting the city leaders andthe county leaders to come
unified.
That's going to be my firstthing.
(45:25):
I do because, like I said atthe forum, the city of Columbus
and Lowndes County cannot growfurther than they are now unless
both the city councils and thesupervisors come together and
put the ego aside and do what'sbest for the city of Columbus
and Lowndes County.
(45:46):
Okay, well, part of Columbusand the Lyons County.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Okay, Well, part of that is the Golden Triangle
Development Link and youropponent here, the incumbent,
has a viewpoint of the link andthe link's participation in the
city and value to the city.
The CEO of the link, Joe MaxHiggins, has been on this
podcast and has adamantlydisagreed with him on that.
(46:10):
I want to give you anopportunity to speak to why you
feel the way you feel about that, Councilman Miggins.
But I want to ask you, Mr Smith, what do you think the city's
relationship with the linkshould be and what value do you
think the link adds to the cityspecifically?
Speaker 6 (46:27):
I think the link uh adds a significant value to the
city.
Um, but again, we have to sitdown as leaders and stakeholders
and come to some type of commonground.
Uh, it's our right to agree, todisagree and you know, with
different personalities andstuff, like, we're not going to
(46:49):
always agree together, I mean onevery issue.
Sometimes I mean you're goingto disagree, but we have to, at
the end of the day, come to somekind of agreement for what's
best for the city at that time.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Okay, councilman Mickens.
Speaker 7 (47:09):
I love Joe Mack.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
I'm sure he loves you too.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
I love you.
I mean you have called intoquestion the value of that
contract and the value of whatthe link provides the city.
Speaker 7 (47:24):
First let me go on record saying that Joe McHiggins
is one of the greatest mindsever come through Mississippi.
He have done a lot for LowndesCounty.
Matter of fact, he put besidethe $40 million that we got back
in what the 90s for selling thehorse builder.
Joe McHiggins had put LowndesCounty on the map with the job,
(47:47):
the industry that he had broughtpack cars, service store,
airway store, aluminum comingout there.
Now I would love to have arelationship with Joe McHiggins
that the supervisor have, but wedon't.
But we being hold to something,zach, now I'm a councilman.
My responsibility is to be agood advocate for the refund, to
(48:09):
source it, how they're beingspent.
It's my job to question howthat money is being spent Right
and nobody's questioning thevalidity of you questioning that
.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
I'm just asking you what does the link need to do to
provide more value to the city?
What we need to do.
Speaker 7 (48:29):
Mr Higgin needs to forget about 05 and 07.
When Jeffrey Ruff and thecouncil did not invest in that
first $100,000, that has beenover the city head ever since.
I've been sitting at a meetingwith Mr Higgin trying to talk.
What can we do to get in onsome of these projects?
We couldn't even get in onaluminum.
(48:51):
If we could have got 10%.
Do you know the revenue thatwould have brought?
Speaker 1 (48:56):
into the city.
So you're saying that the cityasked to invest in that project
and the link turned you down?
Speaker 7 (49:02):
I'm not going to say they turned them down.
What I'm saying we didn't get aseat at the table in it.
I would say that Now I would goeven further.
If you go over to West Pointwith service I mean with
Yokohama ask Rob Bobo what thecity get from Yokohama every
month.
40% out of Yokohama, 40%.
(49:23):
Check it out.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
That's what they get, but they put in 40%.
Speaker 7 (49:27):
That's what I'm saying.
Well, he ain't giving us theopportunity to put in now?
Oh, he has an opportunity toput in Switching the subject
drastically here.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
One more thing that I want to ask you both and I
really I hate that Ms O'Neilldidn't show up, because this has
been an allegation that she hasraised Absentee balloting in
Ward 2.
What does that really look like, mickens?
Do you have a stack of ballotsthat you're going and asking
people to just sign their name?
(49:56):
You'll fill them out later andyou'll send them in, not, so
what does your absentee ballot?
And I'm going to ask you thesame question, mr Smith what
does your absentee ballotingstrategy look like?
I know in 2017 that you got alot of them and it helped you
win that race.
You may not win re-electionwithout the absentee margin that
(50:17):
you got in 2017.
That's just math.
Who's doing it?
How's it being done?
Are you paying anybody to do it?
Speaker 7 (50:24):
I'm asking you straight up, doc, that's illegal
to pay anybody to get absentee.
I love my grandkids.
I got three beautiful grandkidsout in Houston, texas.
I love my wife.
So no, I'm not paying nobody toget no absentee.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Okay, alright.
So in 2017, the last time youhad an opponent, you were losing
on election day.
You lost at the ballot box.
He got you by three votes 180to 177.
That's correct, and you got him178 to 15 on absentees, okay,
okay.
So what happened there for thatto happen and how does your
(51:04):
absentee strategy this time?
Speaker 7 (51:05):
look different than it did eight years ago.
I haven't nothing.
First, the strategy hasn'tnothing changed.
I mean, are we saying we'regoing to disenfranchise people
from voting?
Speaker 1 (51:11):
No, not at all.
Speaker 7 (51:12):
Because they're senior citizens.
No, not at all, and they're notable to leave their house, so
they don't have a right to vote.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Right.
I think they have a right, butthey like you a lot better than
they like your opponentshistorically.
So why is that?
Let me ask the question thatway.
Speaker 7 (51:28):
Well, you have to understand, Zach, that I'm the
first minority to win Ward 2.
When I won it in 09, a minorityhave never held that seat.
So I came into a new era, a newterritory, so the people just
felt close to me.
You think that's still the case?
Oh, yes, I got my supportersOkay, I got my supporters.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
What about you, Mr Smith?
Speaker 6 (51:53):
Well how you ask Councilman Meekins about it?
When I received a phone callabout the same thing, saying
he's going around picking upthat seat ballot, I told the
person that called me I'm notgoing to deal, I'm not worrying
about it.
I got my game plan, my strategy.
(52:13):
Do I have people getting out,getting absentees?
No, but we do have a game planon people that's working or
going to be out of town.
So we're getting them up thereif they're going to be out of
town and however the absenteefall, that's how they fall.
But I just feel like the goodLord is going to be on my side.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
You challenged their residency.
You lost in front of the partyexecutive committee.
You took it all the way to thecircuit court and lost again.
Now you told me on the record.
We had it in the paper.
You said you know I still thinkI was right, but I'm going to
run my campaign.
How did it affect your groundgame to have those challenges
(52:54):
during the time you needed to berunning for office?
Like, do you feel like thataffected your ground game?
Speaker 7 (53:00):
Well, that was part of the strategy from the
committee.
I knew it.
I know the chair of thatcommittee.
Speaker 3 (53:08):
I know them.
Speaker 5 (53:08):
well, I know them well and I know how they operate
.
Speaker 7 (53:12):
That was the strategy get me over here, so I don't be
out here.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Why'd you fall for it ?
Why'd you take the ballot I?
Speaker 7 (53:17):
didn't fall for it.
I want you to understand.
I didn't fall for it.
Okay, I believe what I wassaying was true.
Okay, and I stand for what isright.
Speaker 1 (53:24):
Did you lose weeks of your campaign trying to get
them off the ballot?
Speaker 7 (53:30):
My answer to you is like this.
You said I lost in the court.
I'm getting back to my paststory now.
Speaker 4 (53:36):
Jesus lost in the court Now.
Jesus never loses.
Speaker 7 (53:41):
I said he lost in the court.
Speaker 4 (53:43):
Let's be clear.
Speaker 7 (53:44):
In the court.
Huh, they found him guilty inthe court.
Okay, be clear.
In the court, huh, they foundhim guilty in the court.
Okay, okay, hear what I'msaying now.
They found him guilty and thepenalty was death.
Okay, huh.
But, early Sunday morning,mickens.
Rose so late Tuesday night.
No late Tuesday night, mickenswill be victorious.
Speaker 4 (54:02):
Let me ask you this why is Kareem the Pharisee and
why is he after you?
Speaker 7 (54:07):
to start with, Well, that's another conversation.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
All right, should we close it?
Speaker 7 (54:14):
You get him up here and then me and him will talk
about that.
Okay, all right, fair enough.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
One question that I meant to shift over to you and
didn't and I think, out offairness, I definitely want to.
I asked him what threeinitiatives he would bring forth
.
What are your first threemotions, your first three
initiatives, if you'rere-elected for this time?
Speaker 7 (54:36):
he was right on his number one, public safety.
You know, we brought in, Ithink, one of the best, chief
daltrey.
I want you to understandsomething here.
He was the chief of police overthe state of Mississippi.
This council hired him.
Okay, we hired him.
He was the chief of police overall the cities in the state of
(54:58):
Mississippi.
We brought him here the yearbefore he came.
The homicide was at 13.
Had 13 homicide Last year,being cut it down to about four
or five, and out of them four orfive, he has caught three of
them.
So the process is working.
Infrastructure trying to bringnew jobs in we're paving 71% of
(55:20):
the streets are being paved,most and all the wards now I
think in Ward 4, about 80% havebeen paved.
The infrastructure is great.
The drainage problem the waterbeing flooded out in these
clumbers we have rectified thatproblem, but we're still going
to continue to do better.
But I think we're on the righttrack.
Speaker 4 (55:40):
All about the money.
Huh, all about the money.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Yeah, anything either one of y'all want to add before
we go.
Speaker 6 (55:50):
I just want to remind all the constituents of ward
two that when you wake uptuesday morning at seven o'clock
, make sure you go out to theeast columbus gym or the
fairview elementary school andvote for roderick smith for ward
two, city councilman and votefor Roderick Smith award to city
council.
Speaker 4 (56:09):
Well, I'm just incredibly thankful that both of
you guys have come on the showtoday.
It's been a wild ride.
Thank you to the listeners.
You've been listening toBetween the Headlines.
What are you doing?
Be sure to like share and rateGet out of here.
Oh yeah, and don't forget tojoin our conversation.
(56:30):
Send your comments to tips atcdispatchcom.
Again, that is tips atcdispatchcom.
Or you can follow me onFacebook or X at the Chisholm 00
.
Signing off from Catfish AlleyStudio in historic downtown
Columbus.
Your host has been Zach Playerand I am David Chisholm, so
(56:51):
until next time, y'all keep itfriendly and we will keep it
real.
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Opinions expressed on this show are those of the
speakers and not necessarilythose of the Commercial Dispatch
.
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