June 18, 2025 • 54 mins
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Newly-elected Ward 4 Councilwoman Lavonne Harris shares the grassroots strategy that won her the seat. Harris reveals how she knocked on nearly 4,000 doors across her ward, connecting personally with voters while presenting a vision focused on neighborhood cleanup, infrastructure improvement, and council unity.
"I am only one vote, but I intend to be the right vote," Harris declares, signaling her commitment to independence on a council historically prone to bloc voting. As both a longtime NAACP president and community organizer, Harris brings a unique perspective that bridges various Columbus constituencies. Her refreshing promise to return from taxpayer-funded conferences with actual knowledge to share stands in stark contrast to the status quo.
The conversation shifts to a controversial last-minute agenda item that increased the incoming Columbus mayor's salary from $86,000 to $107,000 annually. While hosts David and Zack agree the figure represents fair compensation for the position's responsibilities, they question both the timing and the motivations behind Councilman Mickens' push for an even higher figure of $120,000 as he exits city government.
We also examine a plan by the city of Columbus, Lowndes County, and the MUW Foundation, who have each committed up to $15,000 toward a PR firm tasked with preserving the MSMS's current location – a collaborative effort that highlights the economic and cultural significance of the institution to the region.
Whether you're invested in Columbus's political landscape or simply fascinated by the mechanics of small-city governance, this episode offers candid insights into how leadership transitions happen and the real-world impact of local elections. Subscribe now and join our growing community of engaged citizens who understand that local politics ultimately determines the quality of daily life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically, we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The Dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:37):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
This week on Between the Headlines, we have special
guest the victor and new face ofWard 4, ms LaVon Harris.
Also, we talk about the cityand county adding up to hire a
PR firm to keep MSMS where it is.
And, lastly, the mayor'sgetting a raise, and we have
(01:03):
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(02:30):
Now we welcome into the studiothe former and technically
current president of theColumbus Lounds NAACP and also
Councilwoman elect.
Congratulations for ward four,miss levon harris, thank you for
being in here today thank you.
Thank you for inviting me allright, good, good to see you.
(02:52):
Um, you look well today.
Well, thank you, and I like the.
Uh, you have the new orleanssaints fleur-de-lis sported on
the front of your shirt.
There, I'm okay with thatchoice as well.
All right.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
No, no, I'm diehard.
Saint Fein, there you go whodat?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
What shall we talk?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
about today.
Well, ms Harris, well, I justwant to jump right in here.
You've run for this office acouple of times before, didn't
get it?
What was different this timeabout your campaign?
About the I guess, thepolitical landscape?
What did you do to get over thetop this time?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Well, this time, what I did, I got a campaign manager
, ms Brenda Martin.
She decided to be my ride ordie and she worried me so bad
about the running because mykids really didn't want me to
run due to the last two times.
But I had a plan and I decidedto work the plan and I played,
and a lot of times I didn't do alot of speaking or whatever
(03:46):
because I was on a mission andthen so what I was doing, my
plan was to knock on and talk toas many people as I could and I
explained to them what I wouldlike to see happen in the ward.
I explained to them I am onlyone vote and I explained it.
So what I was telling them,they was all for that and what I
said is if you want change, youelect me.
(04:07):
If you don't want change,you'll keep what you already got
.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Well now, when you said, when we talked right after
the election, you said that youhad knocked on every bit of
4,000 doors.
How did you get all that done?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I did some every day.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
And I had two diehard friends of mine that when I
called and asked them what werethey doing, they said, oh
nothing.
I said, well, put your boots on, let's go, and, like when it
rained and stopped, we get outthere, even if we only did an
hour.
Most times we got over an hour,but everything.
Then on March the 31st I had awhole crew to come in.
(04:45):
I had friends come from Jackson, my son came up from Tennessee
and then I had friends here.
I had some friends come up fromKnoxville where I was born and
raised, and we got out there andjust knocked on doors, knocked
on doors that particular day.
We went from Memphis town area.
I had already did East Columbuswhere I live.
We did Southside and I got onehouse off of Blue Cut behind the
(05:08):
dispensary.
I was out there.
So only door that I did notknock on if it said no
trespassing, I'll beware dogs.
We didn't go there.
Okay, I wouldn't go thereeither, trust me, I know every
house that in my ward.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
You have anybody slam the door in your face.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
No, they were happy to see me.
Yeah, no, and if they didn'tcome to the door wasn't home.
I left a door hanging on itwith my picture.
Okay, you know, part of my wardis on the Dubby Campus too, in
those apartment complex, so Iwas all over the place.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You say you're the candidate for change.
What needs to change on thecouncil generally and in Ward 4
specifically?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, what I would like to see change on the
council is we come together andtry to be on one page, you know,
and I work for the people.
I don't work for the ones thatsit up on the council seat or
the mayor.
I work for those who elected mein this seat for change, and I
would like to see we worktogether and I feel that this
council we really need in thenext four years to bring this
(06:11):
city back up to where it needsto be, and I hope we all can
come together and work it and dowhat we need for the people and
not just for personal intake.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
You know you mentioned earlier that you were
just one vote, but I think onevote can be really powerful, the
way this particular council isset up.
You know we've talked about theweak mayor system, blah, blah,
but four, two seems to be thething.
Changing that to three, threeor even the other side, you have
a.
I would not dismiss the powerof that one vote that you've
(06:42):
been awarded in terms of what itcan do for our city.
And when you say, lift us up,to where do we need to be, what
does that look like to you?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
To me what it look like.
You know, we, everybody know wegot a big drainage problem.
We need to kind of handle it.
So we literally lift it up, soit'll drain down right, we'll
got to find somewhere where thewater gonna go.
That's my one.
Dad joke'm done now, go ahead.
But what I would like to seehappen if we all can come
(07:11):
together.
But I would love to see justlike our city, I want to focus
on cleaning it up.
You know we talk about peopledon't want to move here.
Well, right down the street, doyou want to move here?
But if we can get it clean andI know they used to have this in
the past I would love to seejust a six-plus employees
working in each ward.
That's the only way we're goingto keep it clean.
That's the only way we're goingto keep them ditches clean out,
because right now they're allover the place.
So if I'm working in Ward 4today and I didn't finish, then
(07:35):
I know tomorrow I need to goback.
And then I feel, every threemonths, let's rotate them, take
them out of Ward 4, put them inWar 5.
You know you rotate them out,but that's the only way you're
going to be able to clean thecity up.
And plus, they need, you know,adequate equipment, of course,
right To work with.
And then you know, like I said,kind of hold the employees, let
them.
Come up to a standard that youreally love your job.
(07:57):
My mama always told me if you'regoing to be a street sweeper,
you better be the best D-suitetripper you can.
So that's what I look at and byme being a business owner
dealing with the public, youknow that's what I like to see.
And then, like I said, I knowand I'm not sure, but I'm going
to check into it we got a lot oflaminated houses around here
that some need to be done.
We got a lot of the vehiclesstill sitting in communities.
(08:21):
Driveway ain't running Need tobe done.
And let's just kind of get ourcity cleaned up.
So you know people when theyride down the street, come down
Main Street, they go ooh, I likethat, I like that.
So you know they ever want tomove here.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Well, talking about that one voice, that one vote
there have been, especially overthe past four years.
It's been block voting for mostof the time.
Talk about how independent yourvoice is going to be, issue to
issue on that council.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
My vote going to be independent.
I'm going to pray about it andI want to vote for what I feel
for the people, and I know myvote is important, but I just
still wanted them to understandthat I am one vote.
But like I told them, also them.
But I just still wanted them tounderstand that I am one vote.
But like I told them also, I'mone vote, but I intend to be the
right vote.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Ms LaVaughn, I want to ask you about this, and this
is kind of deep, but hang withme here.
About three weeks ago we hadRick Don't Go Mason on here and
we had a discussion on racerelations and it went okay, but
the thing is about the, theracial healing in columbus.
It's such a delicate topic, it'ssuch a nuanced topic.
(09:30):
Five minutes just wasn't reallyenough to do it justice.
You know what I mean, and sohere's what I want to throw at
you.
When I was in graduate school,I met an older black man and he
told me this story.
He said for his ninth birthdayhe got 10 cents, which is big
deal for him back in the civilrights era.
He went to the the store.
(09:50):
He ordered a coke.
All right.
The young server brought him acoke in a glass.
The old white lady that ownedthe place came in there and
threw a fit.
She said we don't serve glassesto those people.
She got a napkin, put it overthere, actually took a hammer
and busted the glass up andthrew it in the trash and she
(10:12):
said the paper cups are overthere.
Okay, that story broke my heartwhen that old man said it.
Okay, it's terrible.
It is, and here's why I bringthat story up.
Okay, that was kind of areality check for me when I
heard that.
When I heard that, can someonesuch as me acknowledge that
(10:42):
things were really, really badfor the African-American
community back in those days?
Can we say I am sorry for whatmy great-grandpa did, I am sorry
for what mygreat-great-great-grandpa did,
for what mygreat-great-great-grandpa did,
and at the same time hold theposition that meritocracy works
and certain policies maybereparations for example would be
(11:02):
just counterproductive to thehealing that we need?
I know that's a deep question,but I think you're a person
that's qualified to answer thatand I'd like your take on that.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Well, I think it can be healed because we can come
together as one.
And me myself, I don't seecolor, and you know by being in
the NAACP for almost 20 years,and that's what it's based on
National Association for theAdvancement of Colored Peoples.
Colored peoples.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Which is anybody that doesn't look peoples.
So I don't care what color youis.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You can be black, white, green, purple, I don't
care.
I can have a conversation withyou, we can be friends, we can
go out to eat and I'm still fineNow.
As I was coming up as a child,I kind of went through a little
of the racist stuff, but Ilearned over time everybody's
not racist, okay, yeah, so yougot to know the person.
(11:56):
But we can have a cordialconversation.
We all can come together, wecan sit down and let's have a
talk about it.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You know, you know what I'm saying.
Well, which goes to my point,like, how do we, when we had Mr
Mason on, we talked about this alittle bit how do we have those
community conversations in goodfaith where we're talking about
the right thing?
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Let's just do it like this If you want to do this
conversation, let's start whereyou're going to really kind of
hit home as far as I'm concerned.
Let's start with the church.
Let's start with the pastors,Because see what you've got to
realize.
Let's start with the pastorsBecause see what you've got to
realize.
The pastors see more than anygiven people in a month time on
a Sunday than anybody, and thepastor has more influence on
(12:39):
those people that are coming into get the word.
And the church remains some ofthe most segregated places and
during that time in the churchthat I belonged to back in the
day, I was told they was part ofsome of that segregation
already, because I belong tomissionary union Baptist church.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Going back to the, the, the city policy part of
this or not the city policy partof this, but the uh, the
councilman race and everythingelse, how much do you feel like
and I don't mean this as a as atrap question or as a or as
throwing shade at anybody, butI'm just going to ask it
straight how much did charactermatter in, specifically, the
(13:19):
Ward 4 race in your?
Speaker 4 (13:20):
view, it mattered a lot.
People look at what you do andme, anybody that knows me.
I try to be a woman of my word.
I work in the community.
I do a lot, so if I tell yousomething, let's put it like
this If I tell you somethingthat I'm going to do for you or
whatever, you can take that tothe bank.
(13:42):
But if I tell you it's 430, youcan take that to the bank too,
because I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
And it's just me and I just try to be a
straightforward.
If you call me and ask mesomething, I ask me to do
something and if I see wherethat I can't, I'm going to make
sure I get back to you and letyou know what happened and why I
couldn't do so-and-so.
So-and-so Because, just to giveyou a prime example, as I was
out campaigning on 26th Street,I had a gentleman come out to
(14:09):
talk to me Councilman Beard hadcame before I had came out.
You know he mentioned it to meand he was talking about his
semen that was broke up in hisfront of his driveway, that he
goes down.
And he said, well, what can youdo about it?
You can't do nothing.
And I said, well, I'm not goingcounselor.
I said, well, y'all can.
(14:31):
All you know, I see what I cando like that.
So I left and I made a phonecall and I got the person to go
out there and look at it becauseit is on the city, and I called
the person back, the homeowner,and I let him know who was
coming to talk to him and seehim about that issue.
And so that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay, well, two of the people that you ran against
in this one in the primary andone in the general previously
held the seat, pierre's thesitting councilman.
You beat him in June In theprimary.
It was a previous Ward 4councilman, marty Turner, and
you beat him in the primary.
They both had really positivethings to say about you
(15:12):
throughout.
What is your relationship withthose previous councilmen
specifically?
You know Pierre, who was verycomplimentary to you from the
council table last night.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yes, I know Marty and I know Pierre just you know
from knowing in the neighborhoodand being my counselor.
But we had had a conversationprevious to all those running
and I just told them I'm notgoing through this with y'all
this year because my plans atthe time I'm going to run a
clean campaign, because I don'tneed to say anything about
(15:47):
martin, I don't need to sayanything about pierre.
Whatever the people want toknow about it, I feel they
already knew it was about merunning, knocking on your doors
and tell you what I'm going todo.
That was my main point about it.
So we got along just fine.
We didn't bump heads, theydidn't say nothing negative
about me.
I didn't say nothing negativeabout them.
Okay, and any time I calledPierre, if he didn't answer the
(16:13):
phone he would get back with meand the same as Marty.
Like I said, they did some goodthings over the years, but then
you just had some other stuffhappen and it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
At the risk of making the interview less about you, I
do want to throw this in therewhat do you make of Beard's bid
for state representative?
Well, you can pass if you want.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Well, I put it like this I ain't got to pass.
I put it like this I quitedidn't understand why would he
want to run for staterepresentative and you didn't
win your local election.
The state is a little differentfrom the local because I deal
with it on a timely basis,because I go to the capital a
lot, you know being with NAACPand One Voice, so there's a
(16:58):
whole big turnaround.
And then what I see is I don'tsee Kareem that he's going to do
something that you knowsomebody needs because he's
doing a great job down there andhe's going.
He have done a lot for Columbusand I just feel that he will
still do a lot for Columbus.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Let me give you my two cents.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
I just can't resist, give me your two cents, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
There is an appropriate time to challenge an
incumbent and a court orderedspecial election, in my opinion,
is not the appropriate time.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Well, if they have an election and you're qualified
to run, you should run.
It's legal.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And if he wants to run, he can run.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
That's the democratic process.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I understand and I'm not saying that it's unlawful or
even unethical, but I am sayingthat I feel that it's untimely
and I feel that it is anunnecessary hassle for Kabir
Kareem at this time, for whatit's worth.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, going back to the city, when I interviewed you
after the election results camein, you talked about you know
I'll go to any class they sendme.
I'll report back on what I'velearned.
I'm ready to go.
What do you feel like?
Going in that?
You're the greenest as acouncilman as far as making
(18:18):
votes on city policy?
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Well, we're a little bit of all of it, but I'm not
going to say I'm green.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Because by being the president of the NAACP for 19
years, I deal with the finance,I deal with a lot of stuff and
when they sent me on aconvention, I did bring the
information back and tell themwhat was going on and I also
tell them how we can implementit with the community and put it
out there, because we did do alot for the city.
But I read a lot and I take alot of notes and I just feel we
(18:52):
need to be held accountable,because if you're going to spend
your money to send me to aconference, I need to come back
and let you know what I learnedat that conference.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And that isn't always what has happened historically.
I know.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
But if I'm going and you're sending me, I'm coming
back with something and I feelyou know we as counselors the
the ones that go, the newly ledand the old ones let's do a
press conference, let's telly'all what we're going to do,
not just y'all just spendingy'all the taxpayer money on us.
And if we're not bringinganything back to the better city
(19:24):
, then I got a problem with it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Do you intend to go to the 10-time Waterway
Conference in Point Clear orthat other conference in Tunica?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Well, I, you intend to go to the 10-time waterway
conference in point clear orthat other conference in tunica
that they're.
Well, I go to tunica every yearanyway, okay, and uh, if I go
to point clear, I'm like this, Ican pay for my own way and uh,
and that was something I wasconcerned about because we
didn't put like this with beingin nwacp, when we travel, we
roommate, roommate, you knowwhat I'm saying.
So that saves you money and sothat's what I was used to.
So now I got to get used towhen we now travel, I think they
told me we get our own room andstuff, you know, just in case
(20:00):
your family want to come.
Well, okay, so I got a lot tolearn, but I'm a quick learner
and I don't think I have toomuch of a big.
So I got a lot to learn, butI'm a quick learner and I don't
think I have too much of a bigproblem Because, like I said, I
read a lot.
I'm reading a lot of books whenit comes to different stuff,
when it comes to the citycouncil.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I think a humble spirit and a willingness to
learn will go a really long wayin our current setup.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And I appreciate that about you and the commitment to
coming back and reporting, andreporting on what, what you
learned at these places.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
But the first I'm gonna do is pray for everybody
because, like I said, stayprayed up, put him first and he
will guide my path all right.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So, uh, talking about your naacp role a little bit,
you, um, uh, you said you youstepped down as president when
you ran for election, but youhaven't been replaced in that
role yet.
What exactly?
How does that work?
Speaker 4 (21:00):
How that work is.
In January, when I decided,made up my mind I'm finishing it
, I was going to run because Ihad to pray about it.
What you do is I came, I did apress conference and I made it
effective media that I steppeddown from being the president.
So what happened is the vicepresident steps up to my role,
which is Mr Joe Johnson, theformer chief of police, and then
(21:22):
his role as being first vice.
The second vice stepped up tohis role, which is Mr Long.
So that's how it works.
So right now they are stillactive, you know, until we
decide Long.
So that's how they work.
So right now they're stillactive until we decide, but we
don't meet in July.
We meet every month, but wedon't meet in July.
And when we met this month, wedidn't even get into that
because we had to discuss whatwe just previously had our big
(21:45):
freedom fund bank, and that'swhere we raised money to give
our scholarship to the schools.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Regardless of what role you're in with the NAACP,
you intend to continue to beinvolved.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yes, I'm a lifetime member.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Okay, yeah, all right .
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I don't have anything else except one thing I heard
that a certain opponent of yourswas, according to word, on the
street getting beers to bums forthem to go vote for him.
Did you hear any of thosereports You're listening to
Between?
(22:18):
the Headlines with Zach andDavid.
I don't blame you for passingon that one.
Listen, I wish both of youropponents well as they move
forward in the private sector,both of your opponents well as
they move forward in the privatesector, and I wish you well and
I wish you success in yourendeavors and I do look forward
(22:40):
to seeing you, whether it be onsocial media or whatever.
I feel like if you're in thatposition and the only time I see
you is when Zach is calling youfor an interview for the
dispatch or on the live string,then you're not visible enough,
so I appreciate that so whaty'all need to do some uh like
every third tuesday of the month, come on down to loads and
(23:00):
fishing to help serve thecommunity.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Okay, because I did that on yesterday and I still
showed up at the council meetand had some other meets, but we
I managed to serve 477 people.
So this is something I do as myministry, giving back to the
community.
So I love this.
So maybe y'all want tovolunteer and not just my day.
You know we better have thatall the time, but you will see
me again, not just that, becauseI'm visible, I'm out in the
(23:22):
community.
I do a lot People call I loveworking with Catfish in the
alley and let me just saysomething Just because I was
elected city council, everythingI was doing before I was
elected city council ain'tnothing changed.
I just feel that I don't addsomething else to my plate that
I got to work with.
Okay, and I feel that I hadalready, because people was
(23:45):
calling me for stuff.
I'm like I'm not on the council, I don't work for the police
department, but they just wouldhow they felt, you know, being
confident in me.
So there's nothing really.
I just added something to them,nothing.
Was there anything that wedidn't go over that you wanted
to touch on.
I do want to tell you guys, youknow y'all are doing a great
(24:06):
job with your podcast.
I do listen to a lot ofpeople's listening.
I'd be waiting on y'all's showbecause it'd be very interesting
.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Sounds like a good show.
Unpredictability can makepeople curious, but I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So y'all keep doing the good work that you do Thank
y'all, thank you, and we reallyappreciate you coming and
talking with us, so I'll beseeing y'all soon because I know
you'll be the councilman.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I will be.
So, zach, let's talk aboutLaVon Harris, but before we do,
I want to go to our sponsors.
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Okay, back in the studio with aguy who does not deal in kings
but deuces are wild and managingeditor of the Commercial
Dispatch.
Mr Zach Player, my name isDavid Chisholm.
(25:40):
Here's what we thought aboutLaVon.
I'll start.
I just thought she was a classact.
Class act, yeah, I think—Wouldn't even go in the dirt
with my questions.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I'm not going gonna touch that.
You know I I have talked topeople since she's been elected
uh, democrats and republicans,people who've known her a long
time, and they say, when youtalk to levon harris, she's
gonna be who she is, she's gonnahave a good faith conversation
with you.
She may not agree with you butshe'll shake hands with you and
(26:14):
then talk to you again next time.
This council and that wardneeds that so bad.
Because you know, in fairnessto Pierre, he was somewhat like
that.
There was a lot of spectaclethat came with Pierre.
That was sort ofextracurricular.
That I think was a problem forhim in the election.
(26:34):
But I think as a councilman hetended to veer more independent
voice and how I can talk toanybody, but that credibility
just got soured over time.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Well, he said as much , Remember.
He came on here and he said youtake that away, what do you got
?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Well, the, and he said you take that away and what
do you got?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, Well, the problem is, you can't take that
away.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And you've got, you know, miss Harris here, who
doesn't have that baggage andhas that stellar reputation and
that ability to talk to anyoneand do so calmly and in good
faith.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I can't imagine her having an enemy out there.
Well, I mean, everybody's gotRogers.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I mean, everybody's got enemies and I'm sure she
does too.
But I feel like I feel likeit's going to be very refreshing
to see how she operates on thatcouncil, because I don't think
that there is anybody on thatcouncil that's going to be able
to shove her in a corner andoccasionally Pierre was, and
(27:36):
that 4-2 block lived on a coupleof times when it didn't need to
, because you know, pierre, hewould mumble and stumble and he
would just, you know,gesticulate with all of this
pain before he voted with theblock.
And I don't.
I think, levon, if she believesin it, she's going to do it.
If she doesn't, she's not.
(27:56):
I take her at her word when shesays that I do too.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I was stricken by her willingness to to be humble and
to pledge to bring backinformation from conferences.
I feel like she's going tobring new ideas.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I really do, and I hope that she does that.
I hope that she takes timeevery time she comes back from a
conference and says I want totake two minutes to tell you
what I saw, what I learned fromthe workshops, because none of
them do that.
None of them do that, andthat's a problem.
Right now, you know you've got.
They go to conferences that arevery expensive at nice hotels
and all that, and that's aproblem.
Right now, you know you've got.
They go to conferences that arevery expensive at nice hotels
(28:32):
and all that, and that's part ofthe gig.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I understand that Tunica can be quite expensive.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Well, you know better than I do there, but I
understand that the nice localesand that you spent to send me
to this thing.
I think I don't think MissHarris is going to go unless she
(29:02):
can come back with somethinglike that and I think that
she'll report it and I hope shedoes and I hope it's catching.
I hope that that is contagiouson that city council.
I think it will be and I hopethat it will catching.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I hope that that is contagious on that city council.
I think it will be and I hopethat it will be.
But speaking of yield on return, laughter, laughter Y'all.
The mayor's getting a raise andit's kind of a big one.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
It's a big one, not as big as Mickens wanted to give
him.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
So give me the facts about this.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Okay, so the facts on this, and then I've got a
couple of ways of looking at ithere, I'm sorry.
Back in 22, the council, whengiving themselves a raise,
attempted to give Keith asubstantial one.
Originally they were wanting towrite in 106 to the budget.
(29:55):
He wouldn't go for that.
Eventually they passed 93,000for him and he turned that down
and he continued to make in thelow 80s and he took a three
percent raise later.
Uh, his, so keith's salary rightnow is 86 000 and change some
(30:17):
somewhere between 86 and 87.
And so last night mickens madea play for, uh, the mayor's
position which would apply toStephen when he took office to
120.
That was laughed out of theroom and Pierre, to his credit,
came in and said if we're goingto raise it, why don't we just
(30:40):
give him what we were going togive Keith initially?
And he turned it down and hethat number.
Yeah, so remember it closeenough, but it was uh, 107 is
what they ended up going with,which would would be essentially
a $21,000 annual raise for themayor's position, starting
(31:00):
either when Stephen takes officeor the next fiscal year.
Probably the next fiscal year,probably the next fiscal year in
the budget to hear Stephen tellit Two things on that.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Keith, and it was both a noble gesture and
something that made plenty ofsense.
Keith's standpoint is veryclear on this and maybe putting
a few words in his mouth alongthe way, but this is the
practical application of histhoughts on this.
Mayor runs for election.
They qualify for the job andask you to give it to them in an
(31:39):
election, and they know whatthat pays.
When they do it, they should bewilling to accept that pay, and
for Keith, the practical matterof that was we need people in
positions that havequalifications that the mayor
may not have, and we've got torecruit those people because
(32:00):
those people are hired.
That's your police chief, yourfire chief, your CFO that's
supposed to be a CPA.
Your chief operations officerthose have to be your CFO.
That's supposed to be a CPA,your chief operations officer.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Those have to be competitive.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, those have to be competitive because you're
advertising for those jobs andyou're hoping that you can hire
somebody qualified, the mayor'srunning knowing what the pay is.
So that was sort of Keith'sstandpoint on that and he wanted
to make sure that the peoplewho were hired in those
specialty positions that thecity could be competitive in
(32:30):
getting good people into thosejobs.
Well, he's right I understandand appreciate that and agree
with him.
Mickens for some time andothers on the council for some
time believes that the mayor isthe top man in the city.
Needs to be paid like the topman in the city.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
No, good grief.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Keith disagreed and deferred to making sure that the
people around him were gettingpaid as close to market value as
the city could afford, and thatis to Keith's credit that he
did that.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
That's wild.
I mean the highest paid publicemployee in the state of
mississippi is lane kiffin.
Okay, second's jeff levy.
And then, do you not think?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
that that tate reeves can coach the spread.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Dude, come on man well, I mean that's a good point
.
You have to go way on down theline to get to 310 000, which is
the state medical examiner, andso no mayors.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I don't agree that mayors need to be paid more than
the people that answer to them.
Necessarily, that's an electedposition.
I agree with Keith's standpointon that.
However, I will say this.
However, I will say this Idon't think if Stephen does the
job that he can do and he shoulddo, and he says he's going to
(33:51):
do, he's going to earn every bitof that.
Hundred and seven thousanddollars a year being the mayor.
I don't think that's too.
I don't think that's out ofline.
I don't think that's too muchto pay the mayor.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Is he going to still be?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
a realtor.
That's a big question.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
That is a big question.
Here's the deal.
Let me give you my two centsand then you blast away.
If the pay is too low, thenonly the richest of the rich are
going to do it, and the peoplethat do work that job, and it's
a full-time job if you're doingit right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's a 24-7 job.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
They're going to be distracted with other means of
taking care of their family.
That's just a reality.
Okay, if it is too high, thenobviously you're going to have
people doing it for the wrongreasons, correct, and that is
atrocious.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And I feel like 107, david, is a fair number.
To hit that in the middle, Ireally do.
When you think about themagnitude of that job and your
point that you just made, Ithink 86 is way too low.
I think Keith's been giving thecity a sweetheart deal, not
(35:00):
taking more than that.
I think that 120, uh was maybea little.
Was was a touch high, butthat's just my opinion I think
it's living a little large.
I think that 107 is right inthere for what the market value
of that job would be.
With the caveat taken out ofkeith's book if you can still
(35:23):
recruit high value people, uh,for those other high positions,
if you can still pay close tomarket value and get people to
come in to Columbus for thepolice chief, fire chief, coo,
cfo, those other roles ofdepartment head jobs that you're
going to need to have goodpeople in, if you still have
(35:45):
that flexibility to say, okay,well, let's give that five more,
let's give that 10 more if wecan get this person here and
they'll help us.
If you're still in a positionto where you can do that, by all
means pay the mayor 107.
I don't think the mayor shouldbe paid first because I don't
think that you should kneecapyour ability to do those other
things to pay the mayor.
But 107 is not too much to bethe mayor of Columbus in my
(36:10):
opinion.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Bill Strauss was going to cut it in half and was
going to donate half to charity,and him and Leroy Brooks were
going to get together and talkabout where it ought to go, I'm
not telling a joke.
What's funny about that?
He was going to do it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, that's what he said.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
And I don't doubt that that's what he did.
I don't think it wasdisingenuous, no, I don't, I
just think that it didn't matter.
It didn't Right In the end.
Good guy, I'm glad Bill ran.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
My other question is this.
My question is is what's in itfor mickens?
Why is mickens bringing this up?
Because, um it, he, he's, he'sleaving.
Right, right, he's.
He's not going to be involvedwith the city.
Uh, right, he's.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
He's not going to have a position in the new
administration or anything rightwell, the conspiratorial side
of me is painting him out to bethe scapegoat and the
conspiratorial side of me issaying, hey, what phone call did
he receive from somebody whowas, uh, conveniently out of
town for that meeting?
Speaker 1 (37:14):
well, I'm not going to touch the conveniently out of
town man said he had a darchappointment in tupelo and I'll
give him the benefit of thedoubt.
This is what I'll say, thoughyou know I've heard every rumor
that you could possibly hearabout jobs that Mickens was
promised or things that he'sgoing to get to do in the new
administration.
(37:34):
I don't know if any of thoserumors are true.
He's not qualified to do a lotof that.
He's not qualified to be theCFO.
He doesn't.
I don't think that Mickens isan accountant.
I don't think that he'squalified to be the COO and I
think that the city has one ofthose right now that's doing a
heck of a job.
So I don't really know wherethose rumors are really coming
(37:57):
from and I don't know if they'retrue.
But I will say that, not sayingthat Stephen has promised him
anything or not, but this was apretty naked attempt to lobby
for something.
He didn't do it because they'refriends.
Whether he was told do this forme or I will, I'm not going to
say that that happened, but Iwill say that Mickens believes,
(38:20):
for some reason, whether he'smaking it up or whether there
have been conversations he'slobbying for something and he
thinks that he can get it orwhether there have been
conversations.
He's lobbying for something andhe thinks that he can get it.
I don't know what it is.
I mean, I guess they've got aregistrar's position that's
going to be open pretty soon,maybe.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But I don't.
And that pays about what acouncil, what his council salary
was, and keeps him in PERS.
But I don't know.
And maybe there's nothing,nothing but he thinks there's
something, because if he didn'tthink there was anything,
they're not that good of friendswhere he's trying to get steven
120 grand from the counciltable on his way out of city
(38:57):
government.
That's just not his last playif he doesn't think that there's
another chapter to.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Well certainly, it's all speculation, it is, it is,
and I want to.
Well certainly, it's allspeculation, it is.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
It is, and I want to be very clear.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It is all speculation , it's all speculation, but it
does kind of remind me of, shallwe say, Elon Musk you know,
campaigning for Donald Trump,and all this Let me see how that
works.
Exactly there toward the end,when he didn't get his EV
mandates extended, he threw abig tantrum and said Trump was
(39:30):
on the Epstein list and all thiskind of stuff.
So you know, that kind oflobbying doesn't always work out
.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It doesn't.
And again, he may be doing thiscompletely on his own, thinking
if I go to these places I mightend up in a place I want to be.
But you know, I just don'tthink that that's the way that
those jobs should be awarded andI think that the new council
will get to vote on that if itdoes come up.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
But you know, Zach, let me ask you this and then
we'll move on.
Was the raise issue on theagenda for that meeting?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
It was not.
Mickens came in and put it onthe agenda from the board table
after the meeting started, whichis their right to do.
They have a right to do that.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I think that's horse crap.
Though, If you're going to talkabout raises or something like
that, give the public somenotice.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I agree with that.
The idea of doing that is therefor a reason you you print that
agenda on, say, tuesday morningor monday night and I don't know
.
The sudden need for a temporaryhomeless shelter and somebody
who's willing to do it, you know, arises on tuesday afternoon.
(40:40):
Those kinds of things you add.
But you know what everybody'sgetting paid and you know that.
You know if you want to givesomebody raises and you don't
come up with that on a Tuesdayafternoon or you shouldn't, and
so I think that certain thingslike that you're right.
I don't think that adding thoseto the agenda and catching
(41:01):
everybody by surprise, andtrying to ram it through.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, that's the thing.
It's by surprise.
Nobody in the room had time tosay, okay, hey, well, if we're
going to talk about that, let melook up what Tupelo's doing,
what Starkville's doing, whatTuscaloosa's doing, and make
some comparisons and see what'sbeen done in the past and see
what's commensurate and seewhat's appropriate.
That way we're not willy-nillypicking a number.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Hell Mickens came in and threw a number at the wall.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
And then Keith Gaskin was like maybe I should run
again.
Can I go back?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
That was funny.
You should have seen the lookon Keith's face when Mickens
said 120.
But yeah, I always had.
This is a little bit less of anissue, but I remember during
the Robert Smith administrationwe always had a joke.
They would publish the agendaand then the agenda that you
(41:58):
went in to pick up on Tuesdaynight had a considerable number
of things added to it, and theywould always have the things
that were added in red ink toindicate which ones had been
added since the budget had beenpublished to the public.
(42:20):
And we always joked that it waslike the New Testament and
Robert Schwartz were in red.
Always joked that it was likethe New Testament and Robert
Schwartz were in red.
But even that has some planningassociated with it.
This stuff of I want to putthis potentially highly
(42:41):
controversial, or certainlysomething that's going to be
budgetary.
I'm going to throw this outthere and try to ram it through
and give you as little time aspossible to think about it.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
That's bush league and I agree with that, and it's
not transparent.
Well, speaking of lobbying, weare pleased to learn this week
that the city of columbus isputting forth fifteen thousand
dollars.
The county of lounges isputting forth $15,000.
Up to yeah, okay, and the MUWFoundation will put forth the
(43:11):
remainder of the cost and alobbying firm will be hired to
keep the campus of MSMS righthere, where it belongs.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
A public relations firm and the way that I
understand that that'sstructured is they've all all
three entities have agreed to goin thirds and I guess up to
fifteen thousand dollars to payfor the contract plus any
incidentals and whatever thatmay come up over the next six
months.
The idea for this is to take themessage that really isn't
(43:46):
getting through beyond LowndesCounty and Octobahaw County,
take the message that this is astate issue and try to get some
broader, statewide coverage ofit.
Messaging out, perfect themessaging, as Tripp Hurston said
, that has already been putforward in why MSMS should stay
at MUW.
(44:06):
I think it's a good idea, Ithink it's innovative, I think
that it's timely because you'vegot this lag here where you know
, last session they didn't.
The Board of Educationrecommended the move of MSMS to
be built $85 million facility atMSU.
(44:26):
There wasn't a bill droppedlast set or this past session,
but there almost certainly willbe next session, and so this is
the time to go out there and getin people's faces and get this
messaging out and just keep itcoming.
And I think that you know a PRfirm we don't know the name of
(44:48):
the firm right now but, weshould in pretty short order.
That contract should be executedto begin July 1.
If these guys are good at theirjob, this could be effective.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
So there's a snowball's chance that it's the
same firm that picked thepotential new name for the W.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Well, I'll put it to you this way the trip likes them
and he knows who they are.
The legislative delegationlikes them and knows who they
are, and the lobbyists for MUW,like knows who they are and
thinks that they'll be effective.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
So, no, well, it's going to be money very well
spent.
Maybe I need to reiterate thatthis is, in my view, an
existential crisis, not just forMSMS but for the W, and it's
going to be a big deal for thetown.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Well, there, are a couple of things I'm concerned
about One somebody's got to bedriving the car.
About One somebody's got to bedriving the car.
You can't of these threeentities.
You can't just give themessaging over to the PR firm
and say do your worst.
There's got to be some guidancecoming from somewhere.
I'm assuming that would becoming from the foundation.
I have a feeling that this isprobably more than anything
(46:03):
going to be coming from TrippHurston, who has been far and
away the most eloquent championfor this and the most willing
champion for this.
Him and, I guess, secondarilyKeith, throughout this process.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Don't forget between the headlines.
Well yeah, there's us too.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
But I mean, we're not working for the PR firm or
we're paying them, but thesituation is this Somebody needs
to be guiding this messaging,not from a micromanaging
standpoint, to where we're notgoing to take any risks, because
the PR firm needs to have thefreedom to do their job and do
it well, but they can't beentirely in charge of the
(46:45):
messaging and the creativeperformance of it.
One of these three entitiesthat is paying for this has got
to be driving that bus.
Here is my concern.
We go to talk about this Now.
When I interview Tripp about it, he mentions that the PR firm
has already done some pre-work.
They've already communicatedwith everybody.
(47:07):
They're just essentiallywaiting for the contract to be
executed, for their identity tobe announced and for this work
to start in earnest, but they'realready gathering information.
They're already communicatingwith, evidently, trip and maybe
the foundation too.
So this is a known quantity,maybe the foundation too.
(47:31):
So this is a known quantity.
So we call about it um, afterthe, after the board of
supervisors, uh, on monday, uhapproves their end of the deal.
They're up to 15,000.
The uh council did it tuesday,but the board of supervisors did
it monday.
It was on the agenda for daysbefore they released that agenda
, I think the Friday before.
So it was only agenda for daysthat they were going to be
(47:53):
considering this and voting onthis, potentially Monday
afternoon.
After they did this, we'retrying to get in touch with
somebody with the foundation,somebody with the university.
We go through our regularchannels of doing this, which we
go through their mediarelations department.
The only thing, first of all,it didn't seem like they knew
(48:17):
about it.
Secondly, the only responsethat we could get from the
university that day was thatNora Miller was off campus and
unavailable.
Oh, here we go again.
Nora Miller was off campus andunavailable.
Oh, here we go again.
They didn't have like why don'tyou have?
(48:40):
You know that's coming right,you know that's coming.
So why don't you at least have astatement canned Like hey, nora
tells her media relationsdepartment as she's going off
campus, I'm going to beunavailable Monday, but this is
on the supervisor's agenda to do.
We've been working with thesepeople.
We know what's coming.
We know that the media isprobably going to be asking
about this.
So if y'all can't get me, justgive them this statement.
(49:03):
Now, that's not great, but it'sbetter than off campus and
unavailable, and I don't blamethe media relations department
for that.
I, you know.
First of all, I know, and, likeall of those guys, top notch.
Second of all, I worked in auniversity media relations
department and I understand thatyou don't know what you don't
know and you can't comment onwhat hasn't been cleared, even
(49:26):
if it's as obvious as the noseon your face.
You know, here again, noraagain misses the dunk and they
flubbed an opportunity tocelebrate a win.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
That's concerning Okay, I'll push back this time.
I think that timing isabsolutely everything Right now.
You have commitments, but youhave no contract.
I think that if you make yourheadlines all up front, then
(50:00):
when it really matters the mostand we need to push the red
button and just really blow themessage out there.
Have we already used our steam?
Speaker 1 (50:14):
blow the message out there.
Have we already used our steam?
So I'm going to tell us thatwe're really excited that the
county has invested in this.
We're really excited about thisopportunity.
We hope it'll be effective, orwe think it will be effective,
or we know it will be effective,and we're certainly hoping that
the city follows suit.
We're fully confident that theywill.
Thanks for asking.
I don't think that shoots yoursteam.
I don't think that that doesanything that compromises the
(50:39):
effort.
But I do think, looking likeyou were surprised by the whole
thing, to the point to where youwere off campus and unavailable
when somebody was asking aboutsomething you're supposed to
know about, unavailable whensomebody was asking about
something you're supposed toknow about.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
um, I think that could be problematic well, from
a pr standpoint I probably wouldhave zoomed in for that if it
were me, and I probably wouldhave had a prepared statement,
but my hopes are is that she'son the beach or wherever and
she's got her notebook and she'sdoing stuff and she's just
going to like unleash Armageddonat the appropriate Nora.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Miller unleashes Armageddon.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
Stranger things have happened.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
I would pay to see that All right.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Well, you're listening to Zach and David here
between the headlines.
Let's go to the mail today,shall we?
Yeah, this from Larry Schwartz.
I was a bit taken aback byDavid's opening comment.
Um, let's go to the mail today,shall we?
Yeah, this from Larry Schwartz.
I was a bit taken aback byDavid's opening comment.
Go see what the libs are doing.
While I imagine it may havebeen intended humorously, it
felt a little out of place andpotentially divisive From my
(51:43):
perspective.
The term liberal fundamentallyimplies being open-minded, a
quality I believe most peoplevalue.
All right, thank you forlistening, larry.
You know, I'm actually kind ofwith you on that, in the sense
that when I hear the wordliberal, I think of the
classical liberals that are alittle bit different than I
think what we've got nowadays.
(52:05):
Just being honest, and secondto that, I have a really old
Bible in my closet and if you goto the Sermon on the Mount, the
subtitle that the publisher putabove that is that Jesus
preaches liberality and like, ifyou show that to a Republican,
they're going to be like oh, Ithought Jesus was a Republican,
(52:27):
not my Jesus, you know so anyhow, I appreciate your feedback, mr
Larry.
This from Susanna Nope, she saystypical Republican promote
hatred and mockery.
I thought you were above that.
I'm extremely surprised anddisappointed that you voted for
and still support Trump.
I'm flabbergasted.
But I guess cis straight whitemen got to maintain the white
(52:53):
patriarchy.
Thank you, susanna.
And this from a little morepositive note from Rebecca Berry
Scott.
She says, david, you are reallydoing a great job, and Zach too
, of inviting people to dialogue.
She says memeing is a sort ofintellectual threshold that most
(53:13):
people don't want, most peopledon't seem to be able to cross
and it's watering down logic,discourse and debate as well.
So we thank you for yourfeedback today.
We'd like to hear what youthink about Miss LaVon.
Keep that stuff coming in.
Tips at cdispatchcom or tag myname in a public post.
(53:34):
I am at dchism00, both onFacebook or on X.
Anything else, mr Zach, I thinkthat's got it Well, signing off
from Catfish Alley in historicdowntown Columbus.
Catfish Alley Studios.
Care of Josh Gillis.
We do.
Thank you, my name is DavidChisholm and your host has been
(53:55):
Zach Player.
We'll keep it real.
Y'all keep it friendly.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Opinions expressed on this show are those of the
speakers and not necessarilythose of the Commercial Dispatch
.
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically, we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The Dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:37):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
This week on Between the Headlines, we have special
guest the victor and new face ofWard 4, ms LaVon Harris.
Also, we talk about the cityand county adding up to hire a
PR firm to keep MSMS where it is.
And, lastly, the mayor'sgetting a raise, and we have
(01:03):
thoughts about that.
But first, retirement looksdifferent for everyone, so your
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Our team in Columbus takes thetime to understand your goals
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That is bentonsinccom.
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(02:10):
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That means local decisions,local support and folks who care
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(02:30):
Now we welcome into the studiothe former and technically
current president of theColumbus Lounds NAACP and also
Councilwoman elect.
Congratulations for ward four,miss levon harris, thank you for
being in here today thank you.
Thank you for inviting me allright, good, good to see you.
(02:52):
Um, you look well today.
Well, thank you, and I like the.
Uh, you have the new orleanssaints fleur-de-lis sported on
the front of your shirt.
There, I'm okay with thatchoice as well.
All right.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
No, no, I'm diehard.
Saint Fein, there you go whodat?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
What shall we talk?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
about today.
Well, ms Harris, well, I justwant to jump right in here.
You've run for this office acouple of times before, didn't
get it?
What was different this timeabout your campaign?
About the I guess, thepolitical landscape?
What did you do to get over thetop this time?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Well, this time, what I did, I got a campaign manager
, ms Brenda Martin.
She decided to be my ride ordie and she worried me so bad
about the running because mykids really didn't want me to
run due to the last two times.
But I had a plan and I decidedto work the plan and I played,
and a lot of times I didn't do alot of speaking or whatever
(03:46):
because I was on a mission andthen so what I was doing, my
plan was to knock on and talk toas many people as I could and I
explained to them what I wouldlike to see happen in the ward.
I explained to them I am onlyone vote and I explained it.
So what I was telling them,they was all for that and what I
said is if you want change, youelect me.
(04:07):
If you don't want change,you'll keep what you already got
.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Well now, when you said, when we talked right after
the election, you said that youhad knocked on every bit of
4,000 doors.
How did you get all that done?
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I did some every day.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
And I had two diehard friends of mine that when I
called and asked them what werethey doing, they said, oh
nothing.
I said, well, put your boots on, let's go, and, like when it
rained and stopped, we get outthere, even if we only did an
hour.
Most times we got over an hour,but everything.
Then on March the 31st I had awhole crew to come in.
(04:45):
I had friends come from Jackson, my son came up from Tennessee
and then I had friends here.
I had some friends come up fromKnoxville where I was born and
raised, and we got out there andjust knocked on doors, knocked
on doors that particular day.
We went from Memphis town area.
I had already did East Columbuswhere I live.
We did Southside and I got onehouse off of Blue Cut behind the
(05:08):
dispensary.
I was out there.
So only door that I did notknock on if it said no
trespassing, I'll beware dogs.
We didn't go there.
Okay, I wouldn't go thereeither, trust me, I know every
house that in my ward.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
You have anybody slam the door in your face.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
No, they were happy to see me.
Yeah, no, and if they didn'tcome to the door wasn't home.
I left a door hanging on itwith my picture.
Okay, you know, part of my wardis on the Dubby Campus too, in
those apartment complex, so Iwas all over the place.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
You say you're the candidate for change.
What needs to change on thecouncil generally and in Ward 4
specifically?
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Well, what I would like to see change on the
council is we come together andtry to be on one page, you know,
and I work for the people.
I don't work for the ones thatsit up on the council seat or
the mayor.
I work for those who elected mein this seat for change, and I
would like to see we worktogether and I feel that this
council we really need in thenext four years to bring this
(06:11):
city back up to where it needsto be, and I hope we all can
come together and work it and dowhat we need for the people and
not just for personal intake.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
You know you mentioned earlier that you were
just one vote, but I think onevote can be really powerful, the
way this particular council isset up.
You know we've talked about theweak mayor system, blah, blah,
but four, two seems to be thething.
Changing that to three, threeor even the other side, you have
a.
I would not dismiss the powerof that one vote that you've
(06:42):
been awarded in terms of what itcan do for our city.
And when you say, lift us up,to where do we need to be, what
does that look like to you?
Speaker 4 (06:51):
To me what it look like.
You know, we, everybody know wegot a big drainage problem.
We need to kind of handle it.
So we literally lift it up, soit'll drain down right, we'll
got to find somewhere where thewater gonna go.
That's my one.
Dad joke'm done now, go ahead.
But what I would like to seehappen if we all can come
(07:11):
together.
But I would love to see justlike our city, I want to focus
on cleaning it up.
You know we talk about peopledon't want to move here.
Well, right down the street, doyou want to move here?
But if we can get it clean andI know they used to have this in
the past I would love to seejust a six-plus employees
working in each ward.
That's the only way we're goingto keep it clean.
That's the only way we're goingto keep them ditches clean out,
because right now they're allover the place.
So if I'm working in Ward 4today and I didn't finish, then
(07:35):
I know tomorrow I need to goback.
And then I feel, every threemonths, let's rotate them, take
them out of Ward 4, put them inWar 5.
You know you rotate them out,but that's the only way you're
going to be able to clean thecity up.
And plus, they need, you know,adequate equipment, of course,
right To work with.
And then you know, like I said,kind of hold the employees, let
them.
Come up to a standard that youreally love your job.
(07:57):
My mama always told me if you'regoing to be a street sweeper,
you better be the best D-suitetripper you can.
So that's what I look at and byme being a business owner
dealing with the public, youknow that's what I like to see.
And then, like I said, I knowand I'm not sure, but I'm going
to check into it we got a lot oflaminated houses around here
that some need to be done.
We got a lot of the vehiclesstill sitting in communities.
(08:21):
Driveway ain't running Need tobe done.
And let's just kind of get ourcity cleaned up.
So you know people when theyride down the street, come down
Main Street, they go ooh, I likethat, I like that.
So you know they ever want tomove here.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Well, talking about that one voice, that one vote
there have been, especially overthe past four years.
It's been block voting for mostof the time.
Talk about how independent yourvoice is going to be, issue to
issue on that council.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
My vote going to be independent.
I'm going to pray about it andI want to vote for what I feel
for the people, and I know myvote is important, but I just
still wanted them to understandthat I am one vote.
But like I told them, also them.
But I just still wanted them tounderstand that I am one vote.
But like I told them also, I'mone vote, but I intend to be the
right vote.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Ms LaVaughn, I want to ask you about this, and this
is kind of deep, but hang withme here.
About three weeks ago we hadRick Don't Go Mason on here and
we had a discussion on racerelations and it went okay, but
the thing is about the, theracial healing in columbus.
It's such a delicate topic, it'ssuch a nuanced topic.
(09:30):
Five minutes just wasn't reallyenough to do it justice.
You know what I mean, and sohere's what I want to throw at
you.
When I was in graduate school,I met an older black man and he
told me this story.
He said for his ninth birthdayhe got 10 cents, which is big
deal for him back in the civilrights era.
He went to the the store.
(09:50):
He ordered a coke.
All right.
The young server brought him acoke in a glass.
The old white lady that ownedthe place came in there and
threw a fit.
She said we don't serve glassesto those people.
She got a napkin, put it overthere, actually took a hammer
and busted the glass up andthrew it in the trash and she
(10:12):
said the paper cups are overthere.
Okay, that story broke my heartwhen that old man said it.
Okay, it's terrible.
It is, and here's why I bringthat story up.
Okay, that was kind of areality check for me when I
heard that.
When I heard that, can someonesuch as me acknowledge that
(10:42):
things were really, really badfor the African-American
community back in those days?
Can we say I am sorry for whatmy great-grandpa did, I am sorry
for what mygreat-great-great-grandpa did,
for what mygreat-great-great-grandpa did,
and at the same time hold theposition that meritocracy works
and certain policies maybereparations for example would be
(11:02):
just counterproductive to thehealing that we need?
I know that's a deep question,but I think you're a person
that's qualified to answer thatand I'd like your take on that.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
Well, I think it can be healed because we can come
together as one.
And me myself, I don't seecolor, and you know by being in
the NAACP for almost 20 years,and that's what it's based on
National Association for theAdvancement of Colored Peoples.
Colored peoples.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Which is anybody that doesn't look peoples.
So I don't care what color youis.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
You can be black, white, green, purple, I don't
care.
I can have a conversation withyou, we can be friends, we can
go out to eat and I'm still fineNow.
As I was coming up as a child,I kind of went through a little
of the racist stuff, but Ilearned over time everybody's
not racist, okay, yeah, so yougot to know the person.
(11:56):
But we can have a cordialconversation.
We all can come together, wecan sit down and let's have a
talk about it.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
You know, you know what I'm saying.
Well, which goes to my point,like, how do we, when we had Mr
Mason on, we talked about this alittle bit how do we have those
community conversations in goodfaith where we're talking about
the right thing?
Speaker 4 (12:18):
Let's just do it like this If you want to do this
conversation, let's start whereyou're going to really kind of
hit home as far as I'm concerned.
Let's start with the church.
Let's start with the pastors,Because see what you've got to
realize.
Let's start with the pastorsBecause see what you've got to
realize.
The pastors see more than anygiven people in a month time on
a Sunday than anybody, and thepastor has more influence on
(12:39):
those people that are coming into get the word.
And the church remains some ofthe most segregated places and
during that time in the churchthat I belonged to back in the
day, I was told they was part ofsome of that segregation
already, because I belong tomissionary union Baptist church.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Going back to the, the, the city policy part of
this or not the city policy partof this, but the uh, the
councilman race and everythingelse, how much do you feel like
and I don't mean this as a as atrap question or as a or as
throwing shade at anybody, butI'm just going to ask it
straight how much did charactermatter in, specifically, the
(13:19):
Ward 4 race in your?
Speaker 4 (13:20):
view, it mattered a lot.
People look at what you do andme, anybody that knows me.
I try to be a woman of my word.
I work in the community.
I do a lot, so if I tell yousomething, let's put it like
this If I tell you somethingthat I'm going to do for you or
whatever, you can take that tothe bank.
(13:42):
But if I tell you it's 430, youcan take that to the bank too,
because I'm not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Right.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
And it's just me and I just try to be a
straightforward.
If you call me and ask mesomething, I ask me to do
something and if I see wherethat I can't, I'm going to make
sure I get back to you and letyou know what happened and why I
couldn't do so-and-so.
So-and-so Because, just to giveyou a prime example, as I was
out campaigning on 26th Street,I had a gentleman come out to
(14:09):
talk to me Councilman Beard hadcame before I had came out.
You know he mentioned it to meand he was talking about his
semen that was broke up in hisfront of his driveway, that he
goes down.
And he said, well, what can youdo about it?
You can't do nothing.
And I said, well, I'm not goingcounselor.
I said, well, y'all can.
(14:31):
All you know, I see what I cando like that.
So I left and I made a phonecall and I got the person to go
out there and look at it becauseit is on the city, and I called
the person back, the homeowner,and I let him know who was
coming to talk to him and seehim about that issue.
And so that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay, well, two of the people that you ran against
in this one in the primary andone in the general previously
held the seat, pierre's thesitting councilman.
You beat him in June In theprimary.
It was a previous Ward 4councilman, marty Turner, and
you beat him in the primary.
They both had really positivethings to say about you
(15:12):
throughout.
What is your relationship withthose previous councilmen
specifically?
You know Pierre, who was verycomplimentary to you from the
council table last night.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
Yes, I know Marty and I know Pierre just you know
from knowing in the neighborhoodand being my counselor.
But we had had a conversationprevious to all those running
and I just told them I'm notgoing through this with y'all
this year because my plans atthe time I'm going to run a
clean campaign, because I don'tneed to say anything about
(15:47):
martin, I don't need to sayanything about pierre.
Whatever the people want toknow about it, I feel they
already knew it was about merunning, knocking on your doors
and tell you what I'm going todo.
That was my main point about it.
So we got along just fine.
We didn't bump heads, theydidn't say nothing negative
about me.
I didn't say nothing negativeabout them.
Okay, and any time I calledPierre, if he didn't answer the
(16:13):
phone he would get back with meand the same as Marty.
Like I said, they did some goodthings over the years, but then
you just had some other stuffhappen and it is what it is.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
At the risk of making the interview less about you, I
do want to throw this in therewhat do you make of Beard's bid
for state representative?
Well, you can pass if you want.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
Well, I put it like this I ain't got to pass.
I put it like this I quitedidn't understand why would he
want to run for staterepresentative and you didn't
win your local election.
The state is a little differentfrom the local because I deal
with it on a timely basis,because I go to the capital a
lot, you know being with NAACPand One Voice, so there's a
(16:58):
whole big turnaround.
And then what I see is I don'tsee Kareem that he's going to do
something that you knowsomebody needs because he's
doing a great job down there andhe's going.
He have done a lot for Columbusand I just feel that he will
still do a lot for Columbus.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Let me give you my two cents.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
I just can't resist, give me your two cents, yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
There is an appropriate time to challenge an
incumbent and a court orderedspecial election, in my opinion,
is not the appropriate time.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Well, if they have an election and you're qualified
to run, you should run.
It's legal.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
And if he wants to run, he can run.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
That's the democratic process.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
I understand and I'm not saying that it's unlawful or
even unethical, but I am sayingthat I feel that it's untimely
and I feel that it is anunnecessary hassle for Kabir
Kareem at this time, for whatit's worth.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Well, going back to the city, when I interviewed you
after the election results camein, you talked about you know
I'll go to any class they sendme.
I'll report back on what I'velearned.
I'm ready to go.
What do you feel like?
Going in that?
You're the greenest as acouncilman as far as making
(18:18):
votes on city policy?
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Well, we're a little bit of all of it, but I'm not
going to say I'm green.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Because by being the president of the NAACP for 19
years, I deal with the finance,I deal with a lot of stuff and
when they sent me on aconvention, I did bring the
information back and tell themwhat was going on and I also
tell them how we can implementit with the community and put it
out there, because we did do alot for the city.
But I read a lot and I take alot of notes and I just feel we
(18:52):
need to be held accountable,because if you're going to spend
your money to send me to aconference, I need to come back
and let you know what I learnedat that conference.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And that isn't always what has happened historically.
I know.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
But if I'm going and you're sending me, I'm coming
back with something and I feelyou know we as counselors the
the ones that go, the newly ledand the old ones let's do a
press conference, let's telly'all what we're going to do,
not just y'all just spendingy'all the taxpayer money on us.
And if we're not bringinganything back to the better city
(19:24):
, then I got a problem with it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Do you intend to go to the 10-time Waterway
Conference in Point Clear orthat other conference in Tunica?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Well, I, you intend to go to the 10-time waterway
conference in point clear orthat other conference in tunica
that they're.
Well, I go to tunica every yearanyway, okay, and uh, if I go
to point clear, I'm like this, Ican pay for my own way and uh,
and that was something I wasconcerned about because we
didn't put like this with beingin nwacp, when we travel, we
roommate, roommate, you knowwhat I'm saying.
So that saves you money and sothat's what I was used to.
So now I got to get used towhen we now travel, I think they
told me we get our own room andstuff, you know, just in case
(20:00):
your family want to come.
Well, okay, so I got a lot tolearn, but I'm a quick learner
and I don't think I have toomuch of a big.
So I got a lot to learn, butI'm a quick learner and I don't
think I have too much of a bigproblem Because, like I said, I
read a lot.
I'm reading a lot of books whenit comes to different stuff,
when it comes to the citycouncil.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
I think a humble spirit and a willingness to
learn will go a really long wayin our current setup.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
And I appreciate that about you and the commitment to
coming back and reporting, andreporting on what, what you
learned at these places.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
But the first I'm gonna do is pray for everybody
because, like I said, stayprayed up, put him first and he
will guide my path all right.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
So, uh, talking about your naacp role a little bit,
you, um, uh, you said you youstepped down as president when
you ran for election, but youhaven't been replaced in that
role yet.
What exactly?
How does that work?
Speaker 4 (21:00):
How that work is.
In January, when I decided,made up my mind I'm finishing it
, I was going to run because Ihad to pray about it.
What you do is I came, I did apress conference and I made it
effective media that I steppeddown from being the president.
So what happened is the vicepresident steps up to my role,
which is Mr Joe Johnson, theformer chief of police, and then
(21:22):
his role as being first vice.
The second vice stepped up tohis role, which is Mr Long.
So that's how it works.
So right now they are stillactive, you know, until we
decide Long.
So that's how they work.
So right now they're stillactive until we decide, but we
don't meet in July.
We meet every month, but wedon't meet in July.
And when we met this month, wedidn't even get into that
because we had to discuss whatwe just previously had our big
(21:45):
freedom fund bank, and that'swhere we raised money to give
our scholarship to the schools.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Regardless of what role you're in with the NAACP,
you intend to continue to beinvolved.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
Yes, I'm a lifetime member.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Okay, yeah, all right .
Speaker 3 (21:58):
I don't have anything else except one thing I heard
that a certain opponent of yourswas, according to word, on the
street getting beers to bums forthem to go vote for him.
Did you hear any of thosereports You're listening to
Between?
(22:18):
the Headlines with Zach andDavid.
I don't blame you for passingon that one.
Listen, I wish both of youropponents well as they move
forward in the private sector,both of your opponents well as
they move forward in the privatesector, and I wish you well and
I wish you success in yourendeavors and I do look forward
(22:40):
to seeing you, whether it be onsocial media or whatever.
I feel like if you're in thatposition and the only time I see
you is when Zach is calling youfor an interview for the
dispatch or on the live string,then you're not visible enough,
so I appreciate that so whaty'all need to do some uh like
every third tuesday of the month, come on down to loads and
(23:00):
fishing to help serve thecommunity.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
Okay, because I did that on yesterday and I still
showed up at the council meetand had some other meets, but we
I managed to serve 477 people.
So this is something I do as myministry, giving back to the
community.
So I love this.
So maybe y'all want tovolunteer and not just my day.
You know we better have thatall the time, but you will see
me again, not just that, becauseI'm visible, I'm out in the
(23:22):
community.
I do a lot People call I loveworking with Catfish in the
alley and let me just saysomething Just because I was
elected city council, everythingI was doing before I was
elected city council ain'tnothing changed.
I just feel that I don't addsomething else to my plate that
I got to work with.
Okay, and I feel that I hadalready, because people was
(23:45):
calling me for stuff.
I'm like I'm not on the council, I don't work for the police
department, but they just wouldhow they felt, you know, being
confident in me.
So there's nothing really.
I just added something to them,nothing.
Was there anything that wedidn't go over that you wanted
to touch on.
I do want to tell you guys, youknow y'all are doing a great
(24:06):
job with your podcast.
I do listen to a lot ofpeople's listening.
I'd be waiting on y'all's showbecause it'd be very interesting
.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
Sounds like a good show.
Unpredictability can makepeople curious, but I love it.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So y'all keep doing the good work that you do Thank
y'all, thank you, and we reallyappreciate you coming and
talking with us, so I'll beseeing y'all soon because I know
you'll be the councilman.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
I will be.
So, zach, let's talk aboutLaVon Harris, but before we do,
I want to go to our sponsors.
Let's listen to them.
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Okay, back in the studio with aguy who does not deal in kings
but deuces are wild and managingeditor of the Commercial
Dispatch.
Mr Zach Player, my name isDavid Chisholm.
(25:40):
Here's what we thought aboutLaVon.
I'll start.
I just thought she was a classact.
Class act, yeah, I think—Wouldn't even go in the dirt
with my questions.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
I'm not going gonna touch that.
You know I I have talked topeople since she's been elected
uh, democrats and republicans,people who've known her a long
time, and they say, when youtalk to levon harris, she's
gonna be who she is, she's gonnahave a good faith conversation
with you.
She may not agree with you butshe'll shake hands with you and
(26:14):
then talk to you again next time.
This council and that wardneeds that so bad.
Because you know, in fairnessto Pierre, he was somewhat like
that.
There was a lot of spectaclethat came with Pierre.
That was sort ofextracurricular.
That I think was a problem forhim in the election.
(26:34):
But I think as a councilman hetended to veer more independent
voice and how I can talk toanybody, but that credibility
just got soured over time.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Well, he said as much , Remember.
He came on here and he said youtake that away, what do you got
?
Speaker 1 (26:51):
Well, the, and he said you take that away and what
do you got?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Yeah, Well, the problem is, you can't take that
away.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
And you've got, you know, miss Harris here, who
doesn't have that baggage andhas that stellar reputation and
that ability to talk to anyoneand do so calmly and in good
faith.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I can't imagine her having an enemy out there.
Well, I mean, everybody's gotRogers.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
I mean, everybody's got enemies and I'm sure she
does too.
But I feel like I feel likeit's going to be very refreshing
to see how she operates on thatcouncil, because I don't think
that there is anybody on thatcouncil that's going to be able
to shove her in a corner andoccasionally Pierre was, and
(27:36):
that 4-2 block lived on a coupleof times when it didn't need to
, because you know, pierre, hewould mumble and stumble and he
would just, you know,gesticulate with all of this
pain before he voted with theblock.
And I don't.
I think, levon, if she believesin it, she's going to do it.
If she doesn't, she's not.
(27:56):
I take her at her word when shesays that I do too.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
I was stricken by her willingness to to be humble and
to pledge to bring backinformation from conferences.
I feel like she's going tobring new ideas.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I really do, and I hope that she does that.
I hope that she takes timeevery time she comes back from a
conference and says I want totake two minutes to tell you
what I saw, what I learned fromthe workshops, because none of
them do that.
None of them do that, andthat's a problem.
Right now, you know you've got.
They go to conferences that arevery expensive at nice hotels
and all that, and that's aproblem.
Right now, you know you've got.
They go to conferences that arevery expensive at nice hotels
(28:32):
and all that, and that's part ofthe gig.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I understand that Tunica can be quite expensive.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Well, you know better than I do there, but I
understand that the nice localesand that you spent to send me
to this thing.
I think I don't think MissHarris is going to go unless she
(29:02):
can come back with somethinglike that and I think that
she'll report it and I hope shedoes and I hope it's catching.
I hope that that is contagiouson that city council.
I think it will be and I hopethat it will catching.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I hope that that is contagious on that city council.
I think it will be and I hopethat it will be.
But speaking of yield on return, laughter, laughter Y'all.
The mayor's getting a raise andit's kind of a big one.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
It's a big one, not as big as Mickens wanted to give
him.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
So give me the facts about this.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
Okay, so the facts on this, and then I've got a
couple of ways of looking at ithere, I'm sorry.
Back in 22, the council, whengiving themselves a raise,
attempted to give Keith asubstantial one.
Originally they were wanting towrite in 106 to the budget.
(29:55):
He wouldn't go for that.
Eventually they passed 93,000for him and he turned that down
and he continued to make in thelow 80s and he took a three
percent raise later.
Uh, his, so keith's salary rightnow is 86 000 and change some
(30:17):
somewhere between 86 and 87.
And so last night mickens madea play for, uh, the mayor's
position which would apply toStephen when he took office to
120.
That was laughed out of theroom and Pierre, to his credit,
came in and said if we're goingto raise it, why don't we just
(30:40):
give him what we were going togive Keith initially?
And he turned it down and hethat number.
Yeah, so remember it closeenough, but it was uh, 107 is
what they ended up going with,which would would be essentially
a $21,000 annual raise for themayor's position, starting
(31:00):
either when Stephen takes officeor the next fiscal year.
Probably the next fiscal year,probably the next fiscal year in
the budget to hear Stephen tellit Two things on that.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Keith, and it was both a noble gesture and
something that made plenty ofsense.
Keith's standpoint is veryclear on this and maybe putting
a few words in his mouth alongthe way, but this is the
practical application of histhoughts on this.
Mayor runs for election.
They qualify for the job andask you to give it to them in an
(31:39):
election, and they know whatthat pays.
When they do it, they should bewilling to accept that pay, and
for Keith, the practical matterof that was we need people in
positions that havequalifications that the mayor
may not have, and we've got torecruit those people because
(32:00):
those people are hired.
That's your police chief, yourfire chief, your CFO that's
supposed to be a CPA.
Your chief operations officerthose have to be your CFO.
That's supposed to be a CPA,your chief operations officer.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
Those have to be competitive.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, those have to be competitive because you're
advertising for those jobs andyou're hoping that you can hire
somebody qualified, the mayor'srunning knowing what the pay is.
So that was sort of Keith'sstandpoint on that and he wanted
to make sure that the peoplewho were hired in those
specialty positions that thecity could be competitive in
(32:30):
getting good people into thosejobs.
Well, he's right I understandand appreciate that and agree
with him.
Mickens for some time andothers on the council for some
time believes that the mayor isthe top man in the city.
Needs to be paid like the topman in the city.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
No, good grief.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Keith disagreed and deferred to making sure that the
people around him were gettingpaid as close to market value as
the city could afford, and thatis to Keith's credit that he
did that.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
That's wild.
I mean the highest paid publicemployee in the state of
mississippi is lane kiffin.
Okay, second's jeff levy.
And then, do you not think?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
that that tate reeves can coach the spread.
Speaker 3 (33:15):
Dude, come on man well, I mean that's a good point
.
You have to go way on down theline to get to 310 000, which is
the state medical examiner, andso no mayors.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I don't agree that mayors need to be paid more than
the people that answer to them.
Necessarily, that's an electedposition.
I agree with Keith's standpointon that.
However, I will say this.
However, I will say this Idon't think if Stephen does the
job that he can do and he shoulddo, and he says he's going to
(33:51):
do, he's going to earn every bitof that.
Hundred and seven thousanddollars a year being the mayor.
I don't think that's too.
I don't think that's out ofline.
I don't think that's too muchto pay the mayor.
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Is he going to still be?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
a realtor.
That's a big question.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
That is a big question.
Here's the deal.
Let me give you my two centsand then you blast away.
If the pay is too low, thenonly the richest of the rich are
going to do it, and the peoplethat do work that job, and it's
a full-time job if you're doingit right.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
It's a 24-7 job.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
They're going to be distracted with other means of
taking care of their family.
That's just a reality.
Okay, if it is too high, thenobviously you're going to have
people doing it for the wrongreasons, correct, and that is
atrocious.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
And I feel like 107, david, is a fair number.
To hit that in the middle, Ireally do.
When you think about themagnitude of that job and your
point that you just made, Ithink 86 is way too low.
I think Keith's been giving thecity a sweetheart deal, not
(35:00):
taking more than that.
I think that 120, uh was maybea little.
Was was a touch high, butthat's just my opinion I think
it's living a little large.
I think that 107 is right inthere for what the market value
of that job would be.
With the caveat taken out ofkeith's book if you can still
(35:23):
recruit high value people, uh,for those other high positions,
if you can still pay close tomarket value and get people to
come in to Columbus for thepolice chief, fire chief, coo,
cfo, those other roles ofdepartment head jobs that you're
going to need to have goodpeople in, if you still have
(35:45):
that flexibility to say, okay,well, let's give that five more,
let's give that 10 more if wecan get this person here and
they'll help us.
If you're still in a positionto where you can do that, by all
means pay the mayor 107.
I don't think the mayor shouldbe paid first because I don't
think that you should kneecapyour ability to do those other
things to pay the mayor.
But 107 is not too much to bethe mayor of Columbus in my
(36:10):
opinion.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Bill Strauss was going to cut it in half and was
going to donate half to charity,and him and Leroy Brooks were
going to get together and talkabout where it ought to go, I'm
not telling a joke.
What's funny about that?
He was going to do it.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yeah, that's what he said.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
And I don't doubt that that's what he did.
I don't think it wasdisingenuous, no, I don't, I
just think that it didn't matter.
It didn't Right In the end.
Good guy, I'm glad Bill ran.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
My other question is this.
My question is is what's in itfor mickens?
Why is mickens bringing this up?
Because, um it, he, he's, he'sleaving.
Right, right, he's.
He's not going to be involvedwith the city.
Uh, right, he's.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
He's not going to have a position in the new
administration or anything rightwell, the conspiratorial side
of me is painting him out to bethe scapegoat and the
conspiratorial side of me issaying, hey, what phone call did
he receive from somebody whowas, uh, conveniently out of
town for that meeting?
Speaker 1 (37:14):
well, I'm not going to touch the conveniently out of
town man said he had a darchappointment in tupelo and I'll
give him the benefit of thedoubt.
This is what I'll say, thoughyou know I've heard every rumor
that you could possibly hearabout jobs that Mickens was
promised or things that he'sgoing to get to do in the new
administration.
(37:34):
I don't know if any of thoserumors are true.
He's not qualified to do a lotof that.
He's not qualified to be theCFO.
He doesn't.
I don't think that Mickens isan accountant.
I don't think that he'squalified to be the COO and I
think that the city has one ofthose right now that's doing a
heck of a job.
So I don't really know wherethose rumors are really coming
(37:57):
from and I don't know if they'retrue.
But I will say that, not sayingthat Stephen has promised him
anything or not, but this was apretty naked attempt to lobby
for something.
He didn't do it because they'refriends.
Whether he was told do this forme or I will, I'm not going to
say that that happened, but Iwill say that Mickens believes,
(38:20):
for some reason, whether he'smaking it up or whether there
have been conversations he'slobbying for something and he
thinks that he can get it orwhether there have been
conversations.
He's lobbying for something andhe thinks that he can get it.
I don't know what it is.
I mean, I guess they've got aregistrar's position that's
going to be open pretty soon,maybe.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Gotcha.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But I don't.
And that pays about what acouncil, what his council salary
was, and keeps him in PERS.
But I don't know.
And maybe there's nothing,nothing but he thinks there's
something, because if he didn'tthink there was anything,
they're not that good of friendswhere he's trying to get steven
120 grand from the counciltable on his way out of city
(38:57):
government.
That's just not his last playif he doesn't think that there's
another chapter to.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Well certainly, it's all speculation, it is, it is,
and I want to.
Well certainly, it's allspeculation, it is.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
It is, and I want to be very clear.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
It is all speculation , it's all speculation, but it
does kind of remind me of, shallwe say, Elon Musk you know,
campaigning for Donald Trump,and all this Let me see how that
works.
Exactly there toward the end,when he didn't get his EV
mandates extended, he threw abig tantrum and said Trump was
(39:30):
on the Epstein list and all thiskind of stuff.
So you know, that kind oflobbying doesn't always work out
.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It doesn't.
And again, he may be doing thiscompletely on his own, thinking
if I go to these places I mightend up in a place I want to be.
But you know, I just don'tthink that that's the way that
those jobs should be awarded andI think that the new council
will get to vote on that if itdoes come up.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
But you know, Zach, let me ask you this and then
we'll move on.
Was the raise issue on theagenda for that meeting?
Speaker 1 (40:00):
It was not.
Mickens came in and put it onthe agenda from the board table
after the meeting started, whichis their right to do.
They have a right to do that.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
I think that's horse crap.
Though, If you're going to talkabout raises or something like
that, give the public somenotice.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
I agree with that.
The idea of doing that is therefor a reason you you print that
agenda on, say, tuesday morningor monday night and I don't know
.
The sudden need for a temporaryhomeless shelter and somebody
who's willing to do it, you know, arises on tuesday afternoon.
(40:40):
Those kinds of things you add.
But you know what everybody'sgetting paid and you know that.
You know if you want to givesomebody raises and you don't
come up with that on a Tuesdayafternoon or you shouldn't, and
so I think that certain thingslike that you're right.
I don't think that adding thoseto the agenda and catching
(41:01):
everybody by surprise, andtrying to ram it through.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Yeah, that's the thing.
It's by surprise.
Nobody in the room had time tosay, okay, hey, well, if we're
going to talk about that, let melook up what Tupelo's doing,
what Starkville's doing, whatTuscaloosa's doing, and make
some comparisons and see what'sbeen done in the past and see
what's commensurate and seewhat's appropriate.
That way we're not willy-nillypicking a number.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Hell Mickens came in and threw a number at the wall.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
And then Keith Gaskin was like maybe I should run
again.
Can I go back?
Speaker 1 (41:36):
That was funny.
You should have seen the lookon Keith's face when Mickens
said 120.
But yeah, I always had.
This is a little bit less of anissue, but I remember during
the Robert Smith administrationwe always had a joke.
They would publish the agendaand then the agenda that you
(41:58):
went in to pick up on Tuesdaynight had a considerable number
of things added to it, and theywould always have the things
that were added in red ink toindicate which ones had been
added since the budget had beenpublished to the public.
(42:20):
And we always joked that it waslike the New Testament and
Robert Schwartz were in red.
Always joked that it was likethe New Testament and Robert
Schwartz were in red.
But even that has some planningassociated with it.
This stuff of I want to putthis potentially highly
(42:41):
controversial, or certainlysomething that's going to be
budgetary.
I'm going to throw this outthere and try to ram it through
and give you as little time aspossible to think about it.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
That's bush league and I agree with that, and it's
not transparent.
Well, speaking of lobbying, weare pleased to learn this week
that the city of columbus isputting forth fifteen thousand
dollars.
The county of lounges isputting forth $15,000.
Up to yeah, okay, and the MUWFoundation will put forth the
(43:11):
remainder of the cost and alobbying firm will be hired to
keep the campus of MSMS righthere, where it belongs.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
A public relations firm and the way that I
understand that that'sstructured is they've all all
three entities have agreed to goin thirds and I guess up to
fifteen thousand dollars to payfor the contract plus any
incidentals and whatever thatmay come up over the next six
months.
The idea for this is to take themessage that really isn't
(43:46):
getting through beyond LowndesCounty and Octobahaw County,
take the message that this is astate issue and try to get some
broader, statewide coverage ofit.
Messaging out, perfect themessaging, as Tripp Hurston said
, that has already been putforward in why MSMS should stay
at MUW.
(44:06):
I think it's a good idea, Ithink it's innovative, I think
that it's timely because you'vegot this lag here where you know
, last session they didn't.
The Board of Educationrecommended the move of MSMS to
be built $85 million facility atMSU.
(44:26):
There wasn't a bill droppedlast set or this past session,
but there almost certainly willbe next session, and so this is
the time to go out there and getin people's faces and get this
messaging out and just keep itcoming.
And I think that you know a PRfirm we don't know the name of
(44:48):
the firm right now but, weshould in pretty short order.
That contract should be executedto begin July 1.
If these guys are good at theirjob, this could be effective.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
So there's a snowball's chance that it's the
same firm that picked thepotential new name for the W.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Well, I'll put it to you this way the trip likes them
and he knows who they are.
The legislative delegationlikes them and knows who they
are, and the lobbyists for MUW,like knows who they are and
thinks that they'll be effective.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
So, no, well, it's going to be money very well
spent.
Maybe I need to reiterate thatthis is, in my view, an
existential crisis, not just forMSMS but for the W, and it's
going to be a big deal for thetown.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Well, there, are a couple of things I'm concerned
about One somebody's got to bedriving the car.
About One somebody's got to bedriving the car.
You can't of these threeentities.
You can't just give themessaging over to the PR firm
and say do your worst.
There's got to be some guidancecoming from somewhere.
I'm assuming that would becoming from the foundation.
I have a feeling that this isprobably more than anything
(46:03):
going to be coming from TrippHurston, who has been far and
away the most eloquent championfor this and the most willing
champion for this.
Him and, I guess, secondarilyKeith, throughout this process.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Don't forget between the headlines.
Well yeah, there's us too.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
But I mean, we're not working for the PR firm or
we're paying them, but thesituation is this Somebody needs
to be guiding this messaging,not from a micromanaging
standpoint, to where we're notgoing to take any risks, because
the PR firm needs to have thefreedom to do their job and do
it well, but they can't beentirely in charge of the
(46:45):
messaging and the creativeperformance of it.
One of these three entitiesthat is paying for this has got
to be driving that bus.
Here is my concern.
We go to talk about this Now.
When I interview Tripp about it, he mentions that the PR firm
has already done some pre-work.
They've already communicatedwith everybody.
(47:07):
They're just essentiallywaiting for the contract to be
executed, for their identity tobe announced and for this work
to start in earnest, but they'realready gathering information.
They're already communicatingwith, evidently, trip and maybe
the foundation too.
So this is a known quantity,maybe the foundation too.
(47:31):
So this is a known quantity.
So we call about it um, afterthe, after the board of
supervisors, uh, on monday, uhapproves their end of the deal.
They're up to 15,000.
The uh council did it tuesday,but the board of supervisors did
it monday.
It was on the agenda for daysbefore they released that agenda
, I think the Friday before.
So it was only agenda for daysthat they were going to be
(47:53):
considering this and voting onthis, potentially Monday
afternoon.
After they did this, we'retrying to get in touch with
somebody with the foundation,somebody with the university.
We go through our regularchannels of doing this, which we
go through their mediarelations department.
The only thing, first of all,it didn't seem like they knew
(48:17):
about it.
Secondly, the only responsethat we could get from the
university that day was thatNora Miller was off campus and
unavailable.
Oh, here we go again.
Nora Miller was off campus andunavailable.
Oh, here we go again.
They didn't have like why don'tyou have?
(48:40):
You know that's coming right,you know that's coming.
So why don't you at least have astatement canned Like hey, nora
tells her media relationsdepartment as she's going off
campus, I'm going to beunavailable Monday, but this is
on the supervisor's agenda to do.
We've been working with thesepeople.
We know what's coming.
We know that the media isprobably going to be asking
about this.
So if y'all can't get me, justgive them this statement.
(49:03):
Now, that's not great, but it'sbetter than off campus and
unavailable, and I don't blamethe media relations department
for that.
I, you know.
First of all, I know, and, likeall of those guys, top notch.
Second of all, I worked in auniversity media relations
department and I understand thatyou don't know what you don't
know and you can't comment onwhat hasn't been cleared, even
(49:26):
if it's as obvious as the noseon your face.
You know, here again, noraagain misses the dunk and they
flubbed an opportunity tocelebrate a win.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
That's concerning Okay, I'll push back this time.
I think that timing isabsolutely everything Right now.
You have commitments, but youhave no contract.
I think that if you make yourheadlines all up front, then
(50:00):
when it really matters the mostand we need to push the red
button and just really blow themessage out there.
Have we already used our steam?
Speaker 1 (50:14):
blow the message out there.
Have we already used our steam?
So I'm going to tell us thatwe're really excited that the
county has invested in this.
We're really excited about thisopportunity.
We hope it'll be effective, orwe think it will be effective,
or we know it will be effective,and we're certainly hoping that
the city follows suit.
We're fully confident that theywill.
Thanks for asking.
I don't think that shoots yoursteam.
I don't think that that doesanything that compromises the
(50:39):
effort.
But I do think, looking likeyou were surprised by the whole
thing, to the point to where youwere off campus and unavailable
when somebody was asking aboutsomething you're supposed to
know about, unavailable whensomebody was asking about
something you're supposed toknow about.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
um, I think that could be problematic well, from
a pr standpoint I probably wouldhave zoomed in for that if it
were me, and I probably wouldhave had a prepared statement,
but my hopes are is that she'son the beach or wherever and
she's got her notebook and she'sdoing stuff and she's just
going to like unleash Armageddonat the appropriate Nora.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
Miller unleashes Armageddon.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
Stranger things have happened.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
I would pay to see that All right.
Speaker 3 (51:22):
Well, you're listening to Zach and David here
between the headlines.
Let's go to the mail today,shall we?
Yeah, this from Larry Schwartz.
I was a bit taken aback byDavid's opening comment.
Um, let's go to the mail today,shall we?
Yeah, this from Larry Schwartz.
I was a bit taken aback byDavid's opening comment.
Go see what the libs are doing.
While I imagine it may havebeen intended humorously, it
felt a little out of place andpotentially divisive From my
(51:43):
perspective.
The term liberal fundamentallyimplies being open-minded, a
quality I believe most peoplevalue.
All right, thank you forlistening, larry.
You know, I'm actually kind ofwith you on that, in the sense
that when I hear the wordliberal, I think of the
classical liberals that are alittle bit different than I
think what we've got nowadays.
(52:05):
Just being honest, and secondto that, I have a really old
Bible in my closet and if you goto the Sermon on the Mount, the
subtitle that the publisher putabove that is that Jesus
preaches liberality and like, ifyou show that to a Republican,
they're going to be like oh, Ithought Jesus was a Republican,
(52:27):
not my Jesus, you know so anyhow, I appreciate your feedback, mr
Larry.
This from Susanna Nope, she saystypical Republican promote
hatred and mockery.
I thought you were above that.
I'm extremely surprised anddisappointed that you voted for
and still support Trump.
I'm flabbergasted.
But I guess cis straight whitemen got to maintain the white
(52:53):
patriarchy.
Thank you, susanna.
And this from a little morepositive note from Rebecca Berry
Scott.
She says, david, you are reallydoing a great job, and Zach too
, of inviting people to dialogue.
She says memeing is a sort ofintellectual threshold that most
(53:13):
people don't want, most peopledon't seem to be able to cross
and it's watering down logic,discourse and debate as well.
So we thank you for yourfeedback today.
We'd like to hear what youthink about Miss LaVon.
Keep that stuff coming in.
Tips at cdispatchcom or tag myname in a public post.
(53:34):
I am at dchism00, both onFacebook or on X.
Anything else, mr Zach, I thinkthat's got it Well, signing off
from Catfish Alley in historicdowntown Columbus.
Catfish Alley Studios.
Care of Josh Gillis.
We do.
Thank you, my name is DavidChisholm and your host has been
(53:55):
Zach Player.
We'll keep it real.
Y'all keep it friendly.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Opinions expressed on this show are those of the
speakers and not necessarilythose of the Commercial Dispatch
.
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