July 24, 2025 • 57 mins
Got a question or a tip? Send us a text
The battle for the Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science (MSMS) takes center stage again as MUW President Nora Miller breaks her silence on the controversial relocation proposal. With remarkable candor, Miller dismantles the flawed process that led to the recommendation to move MSMS to Mississippi State University—revealing how public input was overwhelmingly against relocation by a stunning 185 to 3 margin.
"It was predetermined what the decision was going to be," Miller states, explaining how the evaluation criteria were suspiciously developed only after proposals were submitted. She pulls back the curtain on the severe funding disparities, noting that while MUW maintains MSMS facilities for just 69 cents per square foot (when industry standards call for $4-6), the State Board of Education has consistently failed to advocate for proper funding.
Miller's leadership approach has evolved throughout this controversy. Initially giving state officials "space" to fulfill their responsibilities, she's now stepping forward as MSMS's champion when others wouldn't. "The State Board of Education has not been putting forth a request for funds for their buildings," she reveals, highlighting a critical advocacy gap she now feels compelled to fill.
Beyond MSMS, Miller addresses the W's strategies for growth through community college transfer pathways and specialized programs like nursing and speech-language pathology. She tackles the lingering name change controversy with refreshing honesty and acknowledges the political vulnerabilities facing regional universities in Mississippi. "Typically, before they would go after an HBCU, they're going to come for us," she notes, referencing recurring consolidation threats.
As this high-stakes education battle continues, Miller's mobilizing the university's passionate alumni base while working with a PR firm to amplify their message statewide. The fundamental question remains unanswered: will legislators invest $85 million in a new facility in Starkville, or will they properly fund the existing MSMS campus in Columbus? This pivotal conversation reveals how education, politics, and community identity intersect in ways that will shape Mississippi's future.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:37):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now between the headlines.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Retirement looks different for everyone, so your
plan should be built around you.
And now, between the headlines.
You are in your journey.
We're ready to help.
We plan retirement.
Financial Concepts is aregistered investment advisor.
Benton's Maintenance andMechanical makes easy work out
of plumbing, electrical, heatingand air conditioner problems.
You can book an appointment byphone or online and rest assured
(01:17):
they will show up at theappointed time.
Call Benton's at 662-657-2583or visit them online at
bentonsinccom.
That is bentonsinccom.
This episode of Between theHeadlines is brought to you by
Bank First, the locally ownedbank that makes decisions right
here at home, by people whounderstand the needs of our
(01:39):
community.
That means local decisions,local support and folks who care
.
If your kid made the team AtBank First, we're not just
bankers.
We're neighbors and friends.
Whether you're buying a home orstarting a business or just
need someone to explain what APRactually means, we're here,
right down the street.
Stop by your Bank First branchor visit BankFirstFScom to learn
(02:02):
more.
Bank First is a member FDIC andEqual Housing Lender Bank NMLS
454063.
Today we are pleased to have inthe studio Ms Nora Miller,
president of MUW, who has had along-standing tenure.
There was the CFO and then theInterim President.
In 2018, inaugurated 2019,.
In 2018, inaugurated 2019.
(02:24):
And here she is today, zach,it's finally Miller time.
Yeah, we've been trying to getyou on for a while.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
We're glad that you finally agreed to come, and so a
little context here.
We actually invited both youand Sid Salter, the public
affairs director fromMississippi State.
Mr Salter politely declined.
You graciously agreed to comeon, but Mr Salter hasn't been
(02:51):
silent on some of the issuesthat we're going to talk about
today.
Obviously we're going to talkabout MSMS and I want to.
Other people have commented onthis.
I haven't had a chance to askyou so I want to ask you.
This is in response to therevelation that the public input
on the MS-MS relocation wasvery heavily in favor of leaving
(03:13):
it where it is and among thethings that Mr Salter said about
it, there's nothing remotelyscientific about this input that
reflects an accurate measure ofpublic opinion, scientific
about this input that reflectsan accurate measure of public
opinion.
He goes on later to boast aboutMSU's quality of facilities and
our faculty, about the superiorexperiences and amenities that
a comprehensive universityoffers in comparison with a fine
(03:36):
regional university.
So I just want to start therewith your impressions of that
take.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
We are proud to be a fine regional university that
offers a personalized experience.
We have a strong background inliberal arts, but we also have
great professional programs, andso I'm very proud to be a fine
regional public institution.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Where do you feel like y'all are right now with
the possible relocation of MSMS,or do you feel like y'all are
in a safer place than you were ayear, two years ago?
You?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
know.
As we submitted the proposalsand then they became public, I
thought if anybody is makingtheir decision based on what is
best for the taxpayers ofMississippi, based on what is
best for the MSMS students andwhat follows the MSMS mission, I
felt very secure that we hadthe best proposal.
(04:31):
The public opinion obviouslywas in the same way and it may
not be a scientific poll thatwas done.
But I think 185 to 3 is prettyresounding.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, I would say so also.
That's quite a, that's quite astat.
Yeah, that is a pretty goodstat.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
You can't fudge those numbers, like even if you tried
, scientific or not, I mean,that's just, that's not even in
question and I would say the,the 24 that were, please
reconsider, seemed to be prettyheavily, please don't move it.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
So I would would count those 24 as being pretty
much in our favor too.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
They were just really down in the whole process of
the deal.
They're like why would you doit this way?
What's going on here?
Speaker 5 (05:12):
And that is the problem that we have the most
with it.
It was predetermined what thedecision was going to be.
It was unfair.
It was unfair in that all eightpublic institutions didn't have
the opportunity to put forth aproposal and it was clearly
biased towards Mississippi Statein the very beginning.
(05:33):
And then the public input.
You know, when I asked thequestion after we got the RFP, I
asked about how it seemed to beleading towards Mississippi
State right there, with theemphasis on engineering.
I was told that that was notintentional.
And then I asked how theproposals would be graded, what
(05:55):
the rubric would be.
And they said that that would bedeveloped once they received
the proposals.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
So you're going to determine how you grade the test
after you get the scores inafter you get the.
That doesn't bode well.
You know, I'm a graduate of theeducation program over there
and that's like the absolute topof the do-not-do list.
You don't decide how you'regoing to grade something after
you get them in.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, I want to go into some of the challenges with
this.
But first, this plan didn't getfunded.
This proposal, thisrecommendation from the Board of
Education, it didn't get fundedin the legislature, this
session.
What do you think that means?
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Well, I think no projects got funded as far as
construction projects or localprojects, so that leaves a big
hole everywhere.
I don't know that there's goingto be $85 million for the state
to fund what this proposalwould be.
I think what's really neededMSMS needs facility improvements
(07:05):
, facility upgrades.
They need a way to maintainthat so that it doesn't become
every 35 years there's a crisis.
It needs to be ongoing.
So I think that the Departmentof Ed and the State Board of
Education needs to figure out away to take care of the
facilities for MSMS, out a wayto take care of the facilities
(07:27):
for MSMS, really for all thespecial schools that don't have
the ability to raise bonds or tohave tax levies.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Well, to follow up on that, is there going to be $35
million for y'all's proposal?
I don't know, and I mean is thestatus quo, like if what's
going on right now and thecondition of those facilities,
not only at MSMS but at MUW.
Can you kind of run throughthat a little bit and how
tenable it is for it to staythat way?
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Right, we've been fortunate.
The last year or so we've hadover 20 million dollars worth of
projects that have been funded.
We have a backlog of deferredmaintenance.
Actually, we have the leastdollar amount of deferred
maintenance of all the eightuniversities, so it's even worse
for other institutions.
Wow, yes, and so this year,with there being no bond bills,
(08:15):
no capital appropriations, we'reon a pretty tight balance line
here of what are we going to dowhen something goes wrong,
because it seems like every yearthere's at least half a million
to a million dollars worth ofthings that go bump.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Something's already gone wrong.
Right, you look at the airconditioner in the Cooper
building.
That thing has been down forhow long?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
It has not been down.
It has been operating on alower efficiency and we've been
pumping in Freon every threedays or so to keep it going.
But they have had air.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Every three days.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Well, where do the rumors come from about you know,
or the rumors reports, whatever?
We've heard everything on theMSMS facility, specifically from
like rats and holes in theceiling and the floor and
different things.
Can you clear some of that upfor us here?
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Sure, Some of that.
There were some rats that gotin, there was work being done
over the holidays and some ofthe workers left some things
open.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
My son might have left some Cheetos down there.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
That's the problem.
No, we maintain their buildings, their facilities.
We have 60 buildings on ourcampus that we maintain their
buildings, their facilities.
We have, you know, 60 buildingson our campus that we maintain
and we do that to the best ofour ability.
What MSMS pays for us tomaintain their facilities is 69
cents per square foot.
Industry standard is $4 to $6per square foot.
(09:41):
So we spend way more than whatthey pay us in maintaining those
facilities.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, I mean, but looking at, I mean, that's
what's happening right now.
But for y'all's facilities onthe university side to be what
they need to be and for MSMSfacilities to be confidently
what they need to be like, howdo you get the state to invest?
How do you get the state tostand up off the purse strings?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Every four years IHL works out a bond bill plan and
they run that by the leadershipand so over the four years we
would receive roughly, I think,20-something million dollars.
I think it's like $23 million.
The regionals are all at prettymuch the same level and the R1s
(10:35):
are at a higher level andnormally the legislature has
followed that four-year plan.
This year it didn't, so it leftus all kind of in a lurch.
But we have ongoing projects.
The legislature in the past hasalso been generous with capital
appropriations that allow us toaddress things without having to
(10:55):
go through the Bureau ofBuildings, so that we can act a
little quicker on these things.
So I think whatever fell apartbetween the House and the Senate
this past year just kind of puteverything on hold.
So I think whatever fell apartbetween the House and the Senate
this past year just kind of puteverything on hold.
But I think if they get back tothat four-year plan we'll be
able to take care of thosefacilities that service our
(11:16):
students.
The problem is MSMS.
The State Board of Educationhas not been putting forth a
request for funds for theirbuildings and IHL has told me
that I need to keep the focus onour buildings and let State
Board take care of MSMS, andthey haven't been.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Okay, well, I mean, but I know what you say, that
IHL tells you, but what do youfeel your role is in advocating
for that funding and keeping thelight and the pressure on MDE
to adequately fund their school?
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I see my role as being a strong advocate for MSMS
and in trying to foster betterrelationships through them.
We also we have included MSMSin our facilities master
planning process that weunderstand what their priorities
are.
You can have an idea of how wecan help them achieve those
things, but somebody needs to beasking for money for them.
(12:19):
I'm trying, but I'm kind ofdoing it on a sideways bend
because it's really K-12.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Right, well, okay, so if not you, then who?
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Then I think, well, I think the State Board of
Education and the superintendentof education need to be the
ones really pushing for it.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right, but they're not here.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
They're not here.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And they seem to be pretty content with it moving,
yeah.
So, given those circumstances,who steps up here?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Well, that's when I have to.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, so I want to back up here a little bit.
There's been some criticism Iwas one of them, but I wasn't
the only one of how out frontyou were in the process early on
(13:19):
.
Also, specifically when youreleased a statement where it
said if MSMS goes, then we'llrepurpose those facilities.
There was a ton of people whowent and I understand the
(13:41):
pragmatism of that statement Ido.
But there were a lot of peoplewho looked at that as a
peacetime statement in wartime.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
And so I guess, looking back at that, do you say
that or what's the?
That was a message internallyto our campus.
That was not a message for thepublic.
That was to reassure ourfaculty and staff that, hey, we
see this, we're going to makeplans for one way or the other
and we're going to be fine.
We've got facility needs.
If that should happen, we'llrepurpose these and we'll think
(14:16):
up another plan.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
When I was a student there, I remember that the MS-MS
kids were to some extent anuisance to the, you know, the
college kids.
Okay, looking back, you knowthere's always something to
complain about if you're in your20s.
We would go in like a practiceroom at Poindexter Hall and
there would be evidence, shallwe say, of intruders organ left
(14:41):
on that type of thing.
Intruders, organ left on thattype of thing, did any?
Of that play into your decisionmaking, into word choices and
the way that you've been anadvocate.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Not really, and I think in the past there was that
kind of friction between MSMSand MEW students.
I haven't seen that in the lastseveral years.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, okay.
Well, given the statement, wewill figure it out if they leave
.
Yeah, you know, given some ofthe criticism of, you know,
maybe not being out front in thewar to keep MSMS in a very
public way, msms in a verypublic way.
(15:27):
I have two questions about that.
First is do you see losing MSMSas an existential threat to the
future of the W proper?
Speaker 5 (15:34):
I don't see it as an existential threat.
I do see it as a great loss.
I see it as something that thecommunity feels very strongly
about, of their achievements.
(16:00):
I would like to be able tocontinue that, but I think we
are.
We are more than just a fiscalagent for a public high school.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
President Miller, I think the I think if, if the
local people and thestakeholders were making the
decision, it would be a donedeal just to leave it alone and
fund it properly right herewhere it is.
Unfortunately, this is astatewide issue and, whether you
agree with this or you don'tagree with this, the Republicans
(16:30):
down in Jackson have it intheir muley heads that the W has
a bunch of pink haired ladiesthat look like they fell in a
tackle box and and they're likewhy are we funding this?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I want the record to show that David said that and
not opinions.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
And we are known for blue hair Opinions are those of
the speakers and I'm not sayingthat.
I believe that.
I'm saying that the notion ofthat and the stereotype of that
is out there and these are thethings that I have heard
lawmakers kind of grumble about.
Okay, what say you?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Well, I think it's funny.
You know they complain becauseour alumni are passionate and
call and care and talk aboutthings.
But you know I'm sure they getplenty of calls when Ole Miss
changes a mascot or other things.
I bet they do.
You're meddling.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I have had a legislator tell me before
actually a couple of them thatthe thing that is the fastest,
the thing that will make themhide behind their desk the
quickest, is theiradministrative assistant telling
them that a W alum is out inthe office.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Well, good for us.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Well.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I mean okay.
So two questions here how doyou leverage that now for the
future of the W and for thefuture of MSMS?
How do you do that?
Speaker 5 (17:53):
Well, I think we made a good start last year with
really energizing our LEAPprogram, our Legislative
Engagement and AdvocacyPartnership, and so we have
reached out to our alumni andour friends.
We have been pushing outinformation.
We're going to continue to dothat.
We will be sharing the link tothis podcast with our alumni and
(18:17):
we will make sure that they areinformed.
Now we're not telling them whatto do or, you know, telling
them what to say, but we areproviding them with information
and, I think, getting thisinformation out statewide.
You know, most of the lettersthat I've read from the FOIA Act
have been regional, local orpeople who were MSMS graduates.
(18:40):
We want the word to get outacross the state and we want to
encourage people.
If their legislators vote togive $85 million for this
facility for Starkville-OctobahSchool, I want them to be asking
for where's their money fortheir district.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Right and that kind of goes into this PR firm that
the foundation's kind of frontand hiring, with some help from
the city and the county.
Can you explain therelationship between the
university and the W Foundationand how you specifically are
(19:19):
interacting with this PR firmprocess?
Speaker 5 (19:21):
We cannot use state funds for lobbying or this type
of advocacy.
So our foundation is our funderfor that and I'm very pleased
that the city and the countyhave stepped up to contribute
towards this.
We also have some individualswho have expressed an interest
in supporting these efforts.
(19:41):
So we are trying to get theword out.
We're going to participate.
This is my first podcast here.
We'll be doing some othersgetting the word out and we want
people to understand the issuesand understand the importance
of this, and so we will bepushing word out.
We also have established lastyear a key person network where
(20:05):
we have alumni and friends whohave a relationship with a
legislator.
They may live in that district,they may have gone to high
school with them, they may go tochurch with them, whatever.
But we're trying to get peoplewho, when somebody calls,
they'll say, oh, that'sso-and-so and take that call.
And so we're going to encouragepeople to reach out to whoever
(20:26):
they can.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Speaking as someone who has the heart of a fiscal
conservative, I'm looking atthis and I think the way to
fight this is, first andforemost, purely from the
financial standpoint, as you'vestated.
I think it is not only fiscallyunsound, but it's morally wrong
(20:47):
for 82 counties to foot thebill, largely for a high school
in Starkville, mississippi.
That right there is the crux ofthe issue and I think that
right there it's what's going towin the hearts over of the
decision makers.
Because when I step back fromthis and I have the 37,000-foot
(21:09):
view, what I see was a largetrend for trade schools and for
university-type things this andthat, for trade schools and for
university-type things this andthat.
But the pendulum swung too farand we have begun to abandon our
arts and the things that makeus, shall we say, culturally
(21:31):
colorful people.
If everybody's out therewelding, it's going to get quite
boring in a hurry, Just sayingIf everybody's out there welding
, it's going to get quite boringin a hurry, Just saying so,
Zach.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Well, I also think I think fiscally it certainly
would be the more responsiblething to invest in facilities on
the W's campus.
I think it would be lessdisruptive to MSMS.
Back to the very reason thatschool was founded.
It was founded to take thesebright students where they can
be fostered, where they canchallenge each other and be in a
(22:04):
supportive environment.
If they are kind of just thrownin with the general population
of another public high school,it loses a lot of its appeal.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Something that has come up in interviews that I've
done, other reporters have doneand then on the podcast,
representative Kareem mademention of it last week the name
change issue.
The general sentiment fromofficials and even community
members who have talked aboutthis publicly is that the way
(22:38):
that that was handled and theway that that ended and sort of
just the shifting in the middleof that, just that whole
operation, how it was done, madethe W a soft target for what
ended up being a bill to youknow, close a few schools or
consolidate you guys withMississippi State, and you know
(23:05):
a lot of those officials thinkthat that's still in the wind as
sort of using you guys as sortof the sacrificial lamb to then
go and close some HBCUs.
Do you agree that the way thatthe name change operation and
the way that it was handled madey'all a soft target for that
sort of thing?
I'll start there and then I'llask the second part of that
question.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
I think it made us top of mind.
We were in the news, peoplewere paying attention, so I
think that contributed to it.
But I will say also that itcomes up about every 10 years
that there's a statement thatthere are too many universities,
and always the first target isthe W.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I mean enrollment is another part of that.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Well, enrollment is another part of that, but it
comes up periodically andtypically, before they would go
after an HBCU, they're going tocome for us.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
How much more, I guess, is the motivation there
to strengthen and beunassailable or as close to
unassailable as you can get?
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Well, we are doing a great job of being a welcoming
place for community collegetransfer students.
We have the second highestpercentage of transfer students
of all public master'sinstitutions.
We are strengthening thoserelationships, building pathways
for students who are coming up.
They're making the decisionabout where they're going to go
(24:27):
to school based on finances.
Many of them are choosing tostart off at a community college
.
We are making it a way wherethey can transfer those hours
seamlessly.
It a way where they cantransfer those hours seamlessly.
We're also looking at otherprograms that are needed in this
state that are workforcepositions that will be growing
in the workforce and that arewell paying, and we have degrees
(24:49):
to support all 10 of thosegrowing fields.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You guys have been announcing new degree programs
in bunches lately.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Our nursing program is the best in the state.
We know that the state ofMississippi has a health care
crisis, a shortage of nurses.
We have been trying to findways to expand nursing.
We put forth requests to thelegislature for that.
We're also talking with othersabout ways that we can do that.
Speech-language pathology bestprogram in the state.
Our recent graduates have 100%passage rate on the praxis, 100%
(25:22):
employed.
These are the graduates fromMay.
We are looking at ways to growour graduate programs because
that demographic lift fewer18-year-olds coming along the
way.
So we are building master'sprograms.
Some of those are in education.
We've got a master's of art ineducation, specializing in
(25:45):
elementary ed, a master's inmultiple exceptionalities
education.
We're looking at this master'sof hospitality and culinary
instruction and I think that'sreally going to help us grow
that culinary program.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Well, from an enrollment standpoint overall,
what metric is success or and orshows that this is working Like
?
What metric are y'all aimingfor and what?
How long is it going to take tosee that kind of growth?
Speaker 5 (26:13):
We, we track this, you know, on a weekly basis.
We look at where we arecompared to this week last year
and we're trending up.
We're seeing great growth ineducation and in business.
These are areas that we need.
We're always seeing constantgrowth in nursing.
We recognize that probably ourfreshman class.
(26:34):
Even though we are trying toget as many freshmen as we can,
we've got to really focus onthese transfers and on the
master's level.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So how many do you need, and in what amount of time
, to shore up the gate?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
We would be very happy if we hit back to the
3,000 level.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Okay, and right now y'all are around 22?
24.
24.
Okay, well, how, uh uh, youguys opened up to birmingham
southern uh folks, when theyclosed.
How many of the how?
Speaker 5 (27:04):
what was the?
Return on that very little,very little.
So most of those students werereally wanting to stay in the
birmingham area gotcha so Ithink Samford probably got the
most of those.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
For what Come over here it's great over here.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
It is great over here .
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Well, going back to the name change, I guess one.
Where is that right now?
And what do you think couldhave been done differently?
Better to make it less of anegative light shown on the
university.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
You know, I still firmly believe that we need a
name that better defines who weare and who we serve.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You've been co-ed since the 80s.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
Yeah, that's right, but the problem is there are
only so many W names, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, there's a lot of points in Scrabble for a W
names.
You know there's a lot ofpoints in Scrabble for a W,
isn't it?
That's right Into the six.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Yeah, so we are.
You know, we have stepped backfrom that.
We are proudly proclaiming usas the W, and that's the way
it's going to be for a while.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well, I mean, it's the way it's going to be for a
while.
So y'all aren't pursuing thatand you've told me that before
that y'all aren't pursuing thatactively.
But I mean, do you see thatcoming up again?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yes, okay, it's not going to be Mississippi State
Eastern Campus, is it?
Speaker 5 (28:30):
No, I didn't care for the name they were trying to
give us.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Well, but I mean I guess, looking back at the
process that was, I mean I knowyour hindsight and armchair
quarterback and all of thatstuff.
But are there some things thatyou go back to and say, ok, we
tactically screwed that up?
Speaker 5 (28:52):
When we do this again , we're doing it differently in
this way, I think.
Let's see, I think we gotfurther with it than we've ever
gotten before and, you know, Ithink involving more of our
(29:12):
alumni early on in the processwould be a good step next time.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Okay, do you feel like the alumni, especially the
very passionate, this justdoesn't need to happen.
Alumni, I don't want to askthis question crassly, but how
do you convert them?
Or are you guys waiting themout?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Waiting for what Zach ?
Speaker 5 (29:47):
Well, I'm very proud of the passion that our alumni
have for our institution.
And I wish they would dig deepinto their pockets to help out
with that and to share good news.
You know, some of those alumniwho were very outspoken have not
been on campus, have not beeninvolved, and so we really want
(30:12):
to engage our alumni, let themsee that we are still the great
institution that they rememberfrom the whatever decade.
But every college has changedand continues to change every
day.
Who we serve changes, but it'sstill the same tenets, the same
basic principles and the samegood feel that our students have
(30:34):
for the institution today thatthose graduates in the 60s had,
and it's a special place.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
And in business, if you don't change, you begin to
die.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Well, going back to the MS-MS issue and particularly
your leadership in it, thereseems to be a shift in you being
more vocal and out front inthat process.
You're here today being morevocal and out front in the in
that process.
You're here today.
You've you've been very, you'vebeen very much more definitive
in public statements that you'vemade.
You've talked about, you know,doing roadshow with other
(31:06):
podcasts and, and, and gettingmore out in front of this issue.
What was the?
What was the stimulus for theimpetus, for that evolution of
bringing you more out front, andwhy now and not before?
Speaker 5 (31:21):
In December, the State Board of Education named a
committee to look at the needsand possible expansion of MSMS
and I wanted to give them therespect and the space to do that
.
I felt, and I still feel, thisis a responsibility of the State
Board of Education and I wasgiving them the space to do that
(31:42):
.
They did not follow throughwith what I had hoped, so I'm
speaking up now.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Okay, how happy were you with the Tom Petty
comparisons in the paper?
I've got to ask you that.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
I mean, yeah, I'm a great fan of Tom Petty, but you
know he was not the mostattractive person, and neither
was that caricature.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I had nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I just want to tell you that right now I like the
song.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
I like the resolve, I like the resolve.
But yeah, that was my brother'sgot a big kick out of that one.
It hit Washington and Missouri.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Okay, well, good deal , Good deal.
The relationship between MUWand MSMS on the day to day.
What have been the challengesto that through this process and
how has that changed?
Where is it now?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
I think that the main challenge has been that MSMS
has felt the need to remainneutral and to not speak up one
way or the other.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I mean self-preservation Right.
They've got to go wherever.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
yeah, so that that just makes it a little awkward
okay, because you don't reallyknow yeah, and I, I can't speak
for them, um, and they arehesitant to you know, I
understand well, the leadership.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
That they are in a position where they can't really
do much.
So it's yeah, it's kind ofawkward.
I'm out here asking for fundsfor them and asking for
legislators to take care of themand asking them to keep them on
.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Well, I mean, they've been pretty vocal in wherever
we go.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Yeah, we need.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We need certain things that we don't have.
So they have been vocal in thatrespect.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Well, they just want to keep the kids from drowning,
regardless of which boat theyend up on.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Right, right, right, but is there I'm just going to
ask this question outrightBetween those two institutions,
the W and MSMS, in regards tothem coming to you and saying,
look, we need this, can the Wstep up here?
And either you won't or youcan't, or there's just some
(34:11):
reason why that doesn't cometogether.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Some of this is just your basic state procurement
policies and working through theState Bureau of Buildings.
This air conditioning unit forHooper we started that project
back in September and we've beenpushing it along.
But it takes getting thingsthrough some hoops and I
understand MSMS's frustration.
We're frustrated about it too,but that's just the way things
(34:42):
work.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Do they, though?
I haven't heard of kids being,you know, sweltering in a room,
since, like civil rights andsegregation, it's almost like
the legislature is trying tosweat the kids out and force
them to move to Starkville.
Am I being too dramatic?
Speaker 5 (34:59):
I think you're being way too dramatic.
I think you've noticed what wasit last summer?
All the temporary units thatwere at Lowndes County
Courthouse.
There's just a shortage ofthings.
And now, with tariffs and thecost of everything, these large
units, they're not just sittingsomewhere waiting.
(35:20):
And, as a matter of fact, theunits for Hooper are to be
shipped from New Mexico on April22nd, arriving here, or April
August 22nd, arriving hereAugust 29th, and they'll be in
there.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
And meanwhile you're just going to squirt a couple
cans of Freon in.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
We have located a couple of temporary units to be
delivered next week.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Cool.
Is there anything you'd like toadd?
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I would just like to add that we are looking forward
to this coming year.
We are anxious to see MSMSstudents returning at the end of
this month, beginning of August, and our students will be
moving in soon and we arelooking forward to the year.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Well, thank you so much for coming on.
We really enjoyed theconversation Hear hear.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
You've been listening to Between the Headlines and,
if I heard correctly to acertain extent I heard President
Miller say to the HBCUs they'renot coming after me, they're
coming after you and I'm juststanding in the way now well,
you saw what I did there.
You saw what I did there.
(36:23):
I saw what you did there.
They're after me we thank youfor coming on, but I'm first
block.
We appreciate you okay, thanksdo you have knee pain, muscle
weakness, weakness, swelling orcold feet?
Call King Associates Cardiologyfor an appointment today at
662-368-1169.
(36:46):
King Associates Cardiology, wecare and it shows.
If you need serious equipmentthat gets the job done, Landman
Rentals has you covered.
Skid steers, mini excavators,brush cutters, mulching heads,
you name it.
They're local, reliable andbuilt for the working man.
Give them a call at662-889-0541.
(37:11):
Stuck on the road?
Champions Towing in Columbushas your back.
Fast, reliable towing androadside help whenever you need
it, Whether it's a breakdown orlockout.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
call 662-251-9004 and get moving again, from owners,
operators and innovators.
Hear the inspiring stories ofgrowth and life lessons from
guests in Mississippi and aroundthe world, Hosted by
entrepreneur, fundraiser andreal estate broker, Colin
Krieger.
(37:42):
The podcast is based right herein the Golden Triangle
community.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
All right, zach happy .
25th episode to you.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, I can't believe it's been that many.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
I can't, but then again it's just that time of the
year for me.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I tell you.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
You know, not all podcasts make it to episode 25.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, a very small percentage of them make it that
far, so I guess we're doingsomething right.
People like to listen to you.
We're survivors, we're likecockroaches.
That's right.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
That's right People are still listening, so we
appreciate that.
We thank you, all of ourlisteners.
Big shout out to every singleone of you.
I hope that if you're notfollowing the show, you'll click
that follow button so that whena new episode comes in, it
comes straight to your device.
So you are listening to Betweenthe Headlines.
Let's talk about the interviewwith Nora Miller, shall we?
(38:39):
Yeah, what?
Speaker 1 (38:40):
did you think?
Speaker 4 (38:41):
David, oh boy, Well, there was a lot to unpack there.
I thought she was veryarticulate on the issues at hand
and I thought that she was alot more loose and open and
honest about things.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Obviously, was obviously a conversation that
was going to be a lot moreorganic than you know preparing
a statement or making a speechand I thought that it was a good
conversation on the whole.
A couple of takes that she hadtalking about sort of laying
back you know the criticism ofher not being out front sooner.
(39:18):
In that discussion about MS-MSrelocation, she said she was
giving the State Board ofEducation room to do its job.
But I mean, it seemed prettyobvious to me, as it was to you
and a whole lot of other peopleand even to her, that she
admitted that you know, the fixwas in on that.
So giving them the space to dothe job that they're supposed to
(39:41):
do advocating for MSMS andfunding it properly and
different things like that.
And now since, in the absenceof them doing what they should
have done, she is now sayingI'll be that advocate if I need
to be.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Hmm, I'll be that advocate if I need to be.
Well, I think perhaps if shewere overly belligerent from the
beginning, then maybe it wouldhave attracted the wrong kind of
publicity.
And you know, us Republicanscan be very muley headed and I
can see certain people,particularly on the Mississippi
Board of Education, justplanning their heels down.
(40:16):
Ok, if you're going to be likethat, and then it may not have
developed in the way that wewanted it to.
So maybe she knows some stuffthat we don't Maybe, but I like
the fact that her heels arefirmly planted at this point.
And the offense has started.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I would say Well, I mean, your best defense is
always a good offense.
That's what they say.
The fact that she's here, thefact that she's planning on
going on another podcast, beingmore out front, you know,
rattling the cage if she needsto.
She's talking about getting theW alumni riled up.
(40:56):
Oh that's a that, that's herarmy man.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
That's a she.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
she spent in the name chain, she spent the whole time
fighting them.
But in this, this is anopportunity that she can fight
with them or you know, have her,her fighting along with them
for the W and for MSMS, and youknow we've said several times
that we think that that's hermost effective play and it
sounds like that's where she'sheaded and I like that.
(41:22):
I disagreed with her.
Obviously.
She gave MSMS some props of youknow being very essential to
MUW, but she maintains thatlosing MSMS isn't an existential
threat to the W and you know Icouldn't disagree more.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Yeah, I think that right there has a lot to do with
activity per square foot.
When you look at the campus ofMUW, or any campus for that
matter politicians want to lookat it and they want to see tax
dollars at work and they want toknow that that productive
things are happening.
And if you take a large chunkof that campus and vacate it and
(42:02):
you've got empty buildings thatyou can't tear down, by the way
, because they're protected.
You have to repurpose them, thenit becomes a big-time liability
, and I think Dr Miller was spoton when she said that well, the
HBCUs are right there on thetarget list.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And they've got to get her first if they want to
have any political survival andtrying to go after any HBCUs.
They've got to be able to saysee, it wasn't a target job on
an HBCU, it affected everybody,even though it was Well, you
know, it affected everybody.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Yeah, even though it was.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Well, she has to signal to the W and the W alumni
that they're not going to justwave the white flag if MSMS goes
away.
I understand the pragmatism ofthat, but for a lot of people
who aren't in Columbus, the W isa small school.
Msms is a good chunk of theirreason for being and I think
(43:00):
that I think that if MSMS leaves, the W will fold into MSU
shortly after that as well.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Well, I'm just with you in the sense that she needs
to really stir up that alumnibase, and they've got the power
to.
Hey, I'd like to.
I'd like to see a rally.
Get those alumni out there atthe amphitheater.
You know it's got to be done byDecember 30th.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
We're not going to let you forget that, steven
Jones.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
It's going to be a wild ride.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
That we're on a trajectory.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Not sure what it is, but we're on that trajectory
name change.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Uh part of that conversation was interesting too
.
Uh, there are only so many wnames.
I liked that.
Um, I also I mean her sayingthat it's not in an in the
immediate plan to continuepushing that, but, um, that it's
coming back.
I mean the name of that.
The name of that universityneeds to change if enrollment is
(43:57):
going to have any bump.
That is going to be sustainable.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
I think that's true.
I think perhaps that could bean item of negotiation, if, in
fact, the legislature anddecision makers will bring the
stakeholders to the table.
Yeah, let's include this inwhatever form it may happen to
be.
Yeah, let's include this inwhatever form it may happen to
be.
Other than that, we need tostop talking about it.
It's just such a lose-lose kindof issue.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
That's your solution for everything, man.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Well, no, for that one in particular, I'll say this
when they came up with theBrightwell, bedwell, whatever it
was, university Okay, I'm like,okay, there's a name, let's go
with it.
You see these marks on my neckhere.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah, I'm still suffering from the rope.
Nobody liked that, it seemedlike, and I just wanted to have
the conversation done with andover, but the alumni did not
feel the same way and, forwhatever reason, it turned into
a Trojan horse for much worsethings.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Right, and I think that that's going to be
something that, when this comesup again, those alumni need to
remember.
Their adamant dissent toprogress and change was used
against them by greater forceslater, and it nearly folded the
university into MSU.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Well, it resulted in a very, very ugly bill to get
introduced, for sure.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
And the W survived it and continues to survive it.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
The lesson to be learned is to hey, let's keep
the main thing, the main thing.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Right, okay, I agree with that.
Moving on to CMSD, I don't knowhow much reading you've done on
what's been going on there withthe superintendent search.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
Well, per the paper, the search for the Columbus
Municipal School Districtsuperintendent has been paused
until January and perhaps later.
They had it was either two orthree finalists, if I recall.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
They had two finalists they had two.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
One of them dropped out, withdrew his or her name.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
And we are left with.
Is it one finalist plus MrChapman?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
No, Mr Chapman was the other finalist.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
Okay, so that is just him.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Right, he's the last man standing here, chapman.
He was the high schoolprincipal turned assistant
superintendent.
He served a couple of stints asinterim superintendent.
This will be the longest stint.
They essentially extended thelast man standing as the interim
superintendent through the fallsemester, and this is a tryout,
(46:39):
this is a.
If you do the job well enough,we'll consider, you know,
removing the interim tag andletting you just stay there.
I don't dislike this move.
You know they had nineapplicants.
Overall, only three of them metthe minimum qualifications for
the job, and of those three,they picked two finalists and
(46:59):
one of them dropped out.
It's a safe move.
It's a stabilizing move,because you've already got
somebody who knows the district.
Is it safe, though?
Speaker 4 (47:08):
I mean think about this In 2019,.
Dr Sam Allison was appointed tothe Lowndes County School
District as the superintendent.
Right and, if you recall, therewas a second candidate who was
also at the top of the list.
I won't say that candidate'sname she's since passed away but
(47:28):
it turns out that there was abelief and there was evidence
there that they picked DrAllison because he was a man and
there was a settlement, thedetails of which I don't have
and don't care to talk muchabout.
But my point simply being youcan't go about this process
(47:51):
willy-nilly.
This is a high-profile job andyou better pay attention to the
cards that are on the table,because you've got kids at stake
and if there are people thatare left off the list, that
could come back to bite you.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Well, of these two finalists.
I mean they didn't name theother finalist, but here's a
couple of facts.
Inune robert smith, boardpresident, says, uh, we want
this guy from kemper county,this, uh, haloot hudson, kemper
county superintendent.
He was a finalist last time.
They passed him over forstanley ellis.
So they say in june, we want to, we want to recruit him again.
(48:32):
Um, and then they have chapman.
That they acknowledge was theother finalist and a Kemper
County school board member wascoming to a CMSD board member
and talking to Robert afterward.
Those are the things that weknow so we can't right.
So we can't say definitivelythat Mr Hudson was the was the
(48:52):
other finalist, but a lot ofsigns point to Mr Hudson was the
other finalist, right.
So let's talk about then thesearch process.
They get Mississippi SchoolBoards Association to come in.
They do this whole headhuntingprocess.
We're going to gather up all ofthese.
We're going to gather up all ofthese applicants for you.
(49:13):
We're going to present you withthe applicants.
You choose your finalists, thenyou can go through the process
as you wish from there.
Ten thousand dollars in thisprocess, and the most likely
scenario right here was I mean,this Hudson fellow was the other
finalist.
The people that they broughtthem were six people who weren't
(49:37):
qualified to do the job, andthen the two finalists being the
person that Robert said hewanted them to go specifically
get and a guy that was rightdown the hall.
So what did MSBA do?
Tell me that.
And so for me, there's a fewthings that need to happen here.
One we know that CMSD has, youknow they've had a lot of
(50:01):
turnover in the superintendent'soffice.
There's been some grumblingabout, you know, micromanaging
and whether the superintendentgets to actually do their job or
to what extent they get to dothat.
Applicants don't want to hearabout that.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Right, right, right.
They are pros.
They've been to school a longtime.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Mr Chapman does not need to have to deal with that.
So if they're going to let himbe the interim and it's a good
faith tryout to get that job inJanuary, they need to let him do
the job.
They need to stay out of hisway and if he makes mustard,
they need to give him good,solid metrics for what he needs
(50:41):
to the boxes he needs to check,to be to to get the job in
january and if he meets them,let him have it.
If he doesn't meet them, behonest about that.
Don't squint and say, whatever,get the best person for the job
that you can get, but if youopen that process back up, can
(51:02):
we get some?
I mean, I mean, hell, do ityourself.
If the two finalists that you'regoing to get are an internal
candidate and the guy you askedfor, they might have to do that
Right.
I don't see the need to spendmore money with at least not
MSBA, who brought them sixcandidates that didn't even meet
(51:22):
the minimum requirements andtheir finalists were the guy
they asked for, most probably,and a guy right down the hall.
They can do that themselvesbetter or hire another firm that
can get them a fresh pool ofapplicants that isn't just
recycled from school district toschool district A couple of
(51:44):
things there.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
I mean, it just seems that a job of this caliber, you
could almost just put it outthere on a particular website
and have the applicants come toyou.
I don't know about paying$10,000 to advertise for this.
Moreover, to your point,speaker Jason White agrees with
you that there are probably toomany superintendents out there
(52:07):
to start with.
You know whether or not that'strue, let the listeners decide,
but there's definitely a push inthe legislature to consolidate
all of these administrativecosts, and by this time next
year, you know, mr Chapman maynot even be in this discussion,
which, by the way, is a sidenote.
(52:28):
Mr Chapman, I've noticed looksa lot like Omar Epps.
Yeah, dr Foreman on House MD.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I had to do a double take when I saw Willie Mays
Hayes in Major.
Speaker 4 (52:44):
League Two is what is who I say LMRIPS, ok, well,
that you know.
That's definitely a qualifyingfactor for the job.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
So I just this is a big job.
Cmsd shouldn't settle for less,msds shouldn't settle for less.
Speaker 4 (52:54):
One thing I can tell you is that the general public,
including any applicants, theydon't want to see any hint of
nepotism, nor do they want tosee the micromanagement If the
school board can stay away fromdoing those two things, then
(53:14):
we'll all be better off for it.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
I mean, I think that's true of any district or
any organization.
But to close the show out today, or to get toward that end,
three things to know from thepaper over the past week.
Read the paper y'all.
PACCAR laid off some of itsworkforce this week.
Mom's word from the company onhow many or why.
But PACCAR's quarterly reportfiled this week notes the
(53:36):
uncertain impact of tariffs anda soft truckload market unquote
in its north american market.
All right.
Second thing, bass master.
It's coming back to columbusnext year, this time with one of
its elite series stops.
The tournament is scheduled formarch 26th to 29th on the
10-time waterway and itrepresents the only stop for
that series in mississippi nextyear okay, here, here we need to
(54:00):
be showcasing our water yeah,you've been saying that all
along, and last year the bassmaster open came here and now
and now this so also in columbussomething we talked about, I
think, on the last episode ormaybe the episode before.
Residential garbage rates arestaying the same for the
customer at least through August2026.
City Council last week voted toabsorb the cost of a coming
(54:22):
increase from Golden TriangleWaste Services, that's the
third-party contractor thatcollects the trash.
The move will cost the cityroughly $100,000, but it will
not appear on the customer bill.
Speaker 4 (54:33):
Yeah, I've already opined We'll pay for it one way
or another.
I'm just thankful to havegarbage service.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (54:39):
I hate garbage you have been listening to Between
the Headlines.
Let's go to the mail.
Today I have one respondee, andthis is regarding the fire
station mold controversy.
The person said I just need youand Zach to know that the mold
was bad and it was only a smallpart of the issues at play.
(55:02):
So yeah, most definitelyprobably true there.
You know, zach and I, we oftentalk about things that we have
very limited information about,so we rely upon feedback such as
yours.
So we thank you for thatcomment and we thank you for
listening.
And, by the way, about onceevery year or so, public service
(55:24):
announcement, particular tothose of you who live out in the
county you're going to havethis older gentleman pull up in
a pickup in your driveway onbehalf of the volunteer fire
department.
He's going to knock on the doorand he's going to ask for $40.
Okay, do not hide from this guy.
Okay, break out the billfold,turn to page 100.
(55:46):
You're not going to miss thatmoney.
Hats off to our volunteerfiremen and firewomen.
Between the headlines with Zachand David.
This will conclude episodenumber 25.
Anything you need to throw inthere?
No, I think that's got it Allright.
Well, let's close it out.
Tips at cdispatchcom.
Tips at cdispatchcom or followme personally at dchism00.
(56:10):
Anything we see on a publicpost we might catch on to and
and discuss on this show.
It's been a good one.
Be sure to follow the show andwe will sign out from catfish
alley studios here in historicdowntown columbus.
Your host has been zach playerand I am david chisholm.
Until next time.
(56:30):
Y'all keep it friendly, we'llkeep it real no-transcript.
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:37):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now between the headlines.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Retirement looks different for everyone, so your
plan should be built around you.
And now, between the headlines.
You are in your journey.
We're ready to help.
We plan retirement.
Financial Concepts is aregistered investment advisor.
Benton's Maintenance andMechanical makes easy work out
of plumbing, electrical, heatingand air conditioner problems.
You can book an appointment byphone or online and rest assured
(01:17):
they will show up at theappointed time.
Call Benton's at 662-657-2583or visit them online at
bentonsinccom.
That is bentonsinccom.
This episode of Between theHeadlines is brought to you by
Bank First, the locally ownedbank that makes decisions right
here at home, by people whounderstand the needs of our
(01:39):
community.
That means local decisions,local support and folks who care
.
If your kid made the team AtBank First, we're not just
bankers.
We're neighbors and friends.
Whether you're buying a home orstarting a business or just
need someone to explain what APRactually means, we're here,
right down the street.
Stop by your Bank First branchor visit BankFirstFScom to learn
(02:02):
more.
Bank First is a member FDIC andEqual Housing Lender Bank NMLS
454063.
Today we are pleased to have inthe studio Ms Nora Miller,
president of MUW, who has had along-standing tenure.
There was the CFO and then theInterim President.
In 2018, inaugurated 2019,.
In 2018, inaugurated 2019.
(02:24):
And here she is today, zach,it's finally Miller time.
Yeah, we've been trying to getyou on for a while.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
We're glad that you finally agreed to come, and so a
little context here.
We actually invited both youand Sid Salter, the public
affairs director fromMississippi State.
Mr Salter politely declined.
You graciously agreed to comeon, but Mr Salter hasn't been
(02:51):
silent on some of the issuesthat we're going to talk about
today.
Obviously we're going to talkabout MSMS and I want to.
Other people have commented onthis.
I haven't had a chance to askyou so I want to ask you.
This is in response to therevelation that the public input
on the MS-MS relocation wasvery heavily in favor of leaving
(03:13):
it where it is and among thethings that Mr Salter said about
it, there's nothing remotelyscientific about this input that
reflects an accurate measure ofpublic opinion, scientific
about this input that reflectsan accurate measure of public
opinion.
He goes on later to boast aboutMSU's quality of facilities and
our faculty, about the superiorexperiences and amenities that
a comprehensive universityoffers in comparison with a fine
(03:36):
regional university.
So I just want to start therewith your impressions of that
take.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
We are proud to be a fine regional university that
offers a personalized experience.
We have a strong background inliberal arts, but we also have
great professional programs, andso I'm very proud to be a fine
regional public institution.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Where do you feel like y'all are right now with
the possible relocation of MSMS,or do you feel like y'all are
in a safer place than you were ayear, two years ago?
You?
Speaker 5 (04:11):
know.
As we submitted the proposalsand then they became public, I
thought if anybody is makingtheir decision based on what is
best for the taxpayers ofMississippi, based on what is
best for the MSMS students andwhat follows the MSMS mission, I
felt very secure that we hadthe best proposal.
(04:31):
The public opinion obviouslywas in the same way and it may
not be a scientific poll thatwas done.
But I think 185 to 3 is prettyresounding.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Well, I would say so also.
That's quite a, that's quite astat.
Yeah, that is a pretty goodstat.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
You can't fudge those numbers, like even if you tried
, scientific or not, I mean,that's just, that's not even in
question and I would say the,the 24 that were, please
reconsider, seemed to be prettyheavily, please don't move it.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
So I would would count those 24 as being pretty
much in our favor too.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
They were just really down in the whole process of
the deal.
They're like why would you doit this way?
What's going on here?
Speaker 5 (05:12):
And that is the problem that we have the most
with it.
It was predetermined what thedecision was going to be.
It was unfair.
It was unfair in that all eightpublic institutions didn't have
the opportunity to put forth aproposal and it was clearly
biased towards Mississippi Statein the very beginning.
(05:33):
And then the public input.
You know, when I asked thequestion after we got the RFP, I
asked about how it seemed to beleading towards Mississippi
State right there, with theemphasis on engineering.
I was told that that was notintentional.
And then I asked how theproposals would be graded, what
(05:55):
the rubric would be.
And they said that that would bedeveloped once they received
the proposals.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
So you're going to determine how you grade the test
after you get the scores inafter you get the.
That doesn't bode well.
You know, I'm a graduate of theeducation program over there
and that's like the absolute topof the do-not-do list.
You don't decide how you'regoing to grade something after
you get them in.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Well, I want to go into some of the challenges with
this.
But first, this plan didn't getfunded.
This proposal, thisrecommendation from the Board of
Education, it didn't get fundedin the legislature, this
session.
What do you think that means?
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Well, I think no projects got funded as far as
construction projects or localprojects, so that leaves a big
hole everywhere.
I don't know that there's goingto be $85 million for the state
to fund what this proposalwould be.
I think what's really neededMSMS needs facility improvements
(07:05):
, facility upgrades.
They need a way to maintainthat so that it doesn't become
every 35 years there's a crisis.
It needs to be ongoing.
So I think that the Departmentof Ed and the State Board of
Education needs to figure out away to take care of the
facilities for MSMS, out a wayto take care of the facilities
(07:27):
for MSMS, really for all thespecial schools that don't have
the ability to raise bonds or tohave tax levies.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Well, to follow up on that, is there going to be $35
million for y'all's proposal?
I don't know, and I mean is thestatus quo, like if what's
going on right now and thecondition of those facilities,
not only at MSMS but at MUW.
Can you kind of run throughthat a little bit and how
tenable it is for it to staythat way?
Speaker 5 (07:52):
Right, we've been fortunate.
The last year or so we've hadover 20 million dollars worth of
projects that have been funded.
We have a backlog of deferredmaintenance.
Actually, we have the leastdollar amount of deferred
maintenance of all the eightuniversities, so it's even worse
for other institutions.
Wow, yes, and so this year,with there being no bond bills,
(08:15):
no capital appropriations, we'reon a pretty tight balance line
here of what are we going to dowhen something goes wrong,
because it seems like every yearthere's at least half a million
to a million dollars worth ofthings that go bump.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Something's already gone wrong.
Right, you look at the airconditioner in the Cooper
building.
That thing has been down forhow long?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
It has not been down.
It has been operating on alower efficiency and we've been
pumping in Freon every threedays or so to keep it going.
But they have had air.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Every three days.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Well, where do the rumors come from about you know,
or the rumors reports, whatever?
We've heard everything on theMSMS facility, specifically from
like rats and holes in theceiling and the floor and
different things.
Can you clear some of that upfor us here?
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Sure, Some of that.
There were some rats that gotin, there was work being done
over the holidays and some ofthe workers left some things
open.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
My son might have left some Cheetos down there.
Speaker 5 (09:18):
That's the problem.
No, we maintain their buildings, their facilities.
We have 60 buildings on ourcampus that we maintain their
buildings, their facilities.
We have, you know, 60 buildingson our campus that we maintain
and we do that to the best ofour ability.
What MSMS pays for us tomaintain their facilities is 69
cents per square foot.
Industry standard is $4 to $6per square foot.
(09:41):
So we spend way more than whatthey pay us in maintaining those
facilities.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, I mean, but looking at, I mean, that's
what's happening right now.
But for y'all's facilities onthe university side to be what
they need to be and for MSMSfacilities to be confidently
what they need to be like, howdo you get the state to invest?
How do you get the state tostand up off the purse strings?
Speaker 5 (10:13):
Every four years IHL works out a bond bill plan and
they run that by the leadershipand so over the four years we
would receive roughly, I think,20-something million dollars.
I think it's like $23 million.
The regionals are all at prettymuch the same level and the R1s
(10:35):
are at a higher level andnormally the legislature has
followed that four-year plan.
This year it didn't, so it leftus all kind of in a lurch.
But we have ongoing projects.
The legislature in the past hasalso been generous with capital
appropriations that allow us toaddress things without having to
(10:55):
go through the Bureau ofBuildings, so that we can act a
little quicker on these things.
So I think whatever fell apartbetween the House and the Senate
this past year just kind of puteverything on hold.
So I think whatever fell apartbetween the House and the Senate
this past year just kind of puteverything on hold.
But I think if they get back tothat four-year plan we'll be
able to take care of thosefacilities that service our
(11:16):
students.
The problem is MSMS.
The State Board of Educationhas not been putting forth a
request for funds for theirbuildings and IHL has told me
that I need to keep the focus onour buildings and let State
Board take care of MSMS, andthey haven't been.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Okay, well, I mean, but I know what you say, that
IHL tells you, but what do youfeel your role is in advocating
for that funding and keeping thelight and the pressure on MDE
to adequately fund their school?
Speaker 5 (11:56):
I see my role as being a strong advocate for MSMS
and in trying to foster betterrelationships through them.
We also we have included MSMSin our facilities master
planning process that weunderstand what their priorities
are.
You can have an idea of how wecan help them achieve those
things, but somebody needs to beasking for money for them.
(12:19):
I'm trying, but I'm kind ofdoing it on a sideways bend
because it's really K-12.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Right, well, okay, so if not you, then who?
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Then I think, well, I think the State Board of
Education and the superintendentof education need to be the
ones really pushing for it.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Right, but they're not here.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
They're not here.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
And they seem to be pretty content with it moving,
yeah.
So, given those circumstances,who steps up here?
Speaker 5 (12:48):
Well, that's when I have to.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Okay, so I want to back up here a little bit.
There's been some criticism Iwas one of them, but I wasn't
the only one of how out frontyou were in the process early on
(13:19):
.
Also, specifically when youreleased a statement where it
said if MSMS goes, then we'llrepurpose those facilities.
There was a ton of people whowent and I understand the
(13:41):
pragmatism of that statement Ido.
But there were a lot of peoplewho looked at that as a
peacetime statement in wartime.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
And so I guess, looking back at that, do you say
that or what's the?
That was a message internallyto our campus.
That was not a message for thepublic.
That was to reassure ourfaculty and staff that, hey, we
see this, we're going to makeplans for one way or the other
and we're going to be fine.
We've got facility needs.
If that should happen, we'llrepurpose these and we'll think
(14:16):
up another plan.
Speaker 4 (14:17):
When I was a student there, I remember that the MS-MS
kids were to some extent anuisance to the, you know, the
college kids.
Okay, looking back, you knowthere's always something to
complain about if you're in your20s.
We would go in like a practiceroom at Poindexter Hall and
there would be evidence, shallwe say, of intruders organ left
(14:41):
on that type of thing.
Intruders, organ left on thattype of thing, did any?
Of that play into your decisionmaking, into word choices and
the way that you've been anadvocate.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Not really, and I think in the past there was that
kind of friction between MSMSand MEW students.
I haven't seen that in the lastseveral years.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Okay, okay.
Well, given the statement, wewill figure it out if they leave
.
Yeah, you know, given some ofthe criticism of, you know,
maybe not being out front in thewar to keep MSMS in a very
public way, msms in a verypublic way.
(15:27):
I have two questions about that.
First is do you see losing MSMSas an existential threat to the
future of the W proper?
Speaker 5 (15:34):
I don't see it as an existential threat.
I do see it as a great loss.
I see it as something that thecommunity feels very strongly
about, of their achievements.
(16:00):
I would like to be able tocontinue that, but I think we
are.
We are more than just a fiscalagent for a public high school.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
President Miller, I think the I think if, if the
local people and thestakeholders were making the
decision, it would be a donedeal just to leave it alone and
fund it properly right herewhere it is.
Unfortunately, this is astatewide issue and, whether you
agree with this or you don'tagree with this, the Republicans
(16:30):
down in Jackson have it intheir muley heads that the W has
a bunch of pink haired ladiesthat look like they fell in a
tackle box and and they're likewhy are we funding this?
Speaker 1 (16:45):
I want the record to show that David said that and
not opinions.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
And we are known for blue hair Opinions are those of
the speakers and I'm not sayingthat.
I believe that.
I'm saying that the notion ofthat and the stereotype of that
is out there and these are thethings that I have heard
lawmakers kind of grumble about.
Okay, what say you?
Speaker 5 (17:07):
Well, I think it's funny.
You know they complain becauseour alumni are passionate and
call and care and talk aboutthings.
But you know I'm sure they getplenty of calls when Ole Miss
changes a mascot or other things.
I bet they do.
You're meddling.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
I have had a legislator tell me before
actually a couple of them thatthe thing that is the fastest,
the thing that will make themhide behind their desk the
quickest, is theiradministrative assistant telling
them that a W alum is out inthe office.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Well, good for us.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
Well.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I mean okay.
So two questions here how doyou leverage that now for the
future of the W and for thefuture of MSMS?
How do you do that?
Speaker 5 (17:53):
Well, I think we made a good start last year with
really energizing our LEAPprogram, our Legislative
Engagement and AdvocacyPartnership, and so we have
reached out to our alumni andour friends.
We have been pushing outinformation.
We're going to continue to dothat.
We will be sharing the link tothis podcast with our alumni and
(18:17):
we will make sure that they areinformed.
Now we're not telling them whatto do or, you know, telling
them what to say, but we areproviding them with information
and, I think, getting thisinformation out statewide.
You know, most of the lettersthat I've read from the FOIA Act
have been regional, local orpeople who were MSMS graduates.
(18:40):
We want the word to get outacross the state and we want to
encourage people.
If their legislators vote togive $85 million for this
facility for Starkville-OctobahSchool, I want them to be asking
for where's their money fortheir district.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Right and that kind of goes into this PR firm that
the foundation's kind of frontand hiring, with some help from
the city and the county.
Can you explain therelationship between the
university and the W Foundationand how you specifically are
(19:19):
interacting with this PR firmprocess?
Speaker 5 (19:21):
We cannot use state funds for lobbying or this type
of advocacy.
So our foundation is our funderfor that and I'm very pleased
that the city and the countyhave stepped up to contribute
towards this.
We also have some individualswho have expressed an interest
in supporting these efforts.
(19:41):
So we are trying to get theword out.
We're going to participate.
This is my first podcast here.
We'll be doing some othersgetting the word out and we want
people to understand the issuesand understand the importance
of this, and so we will bepushing word out.
We also have established lastyear a key person network where
(20:05):
we have alumni and friends whohave a relationship with a
legislator.
They may live in that district,they may have gone to high
school with them, they may go tochurch with them, whatever.
But we're trying to get peoplewho, when somebody calls,
they'll say, oh, that'sso-and-so and take that call.
And so we're going to encouragepeople to reach out to whoever
(20:26):
they can.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Speaking as someone who has the heart of a fiscal
conservative, I'm looking atthis and I think the way to
fight this is, first andforemost, purely from the
financial standpoint, as you'vestated.
I think it is not only fiscallyunsound, but it's morally wrong
(20:47):
for 82 counties to foot thebill, largely for a high school
in Starkville, mississippi.
That right there is the crux ofthe issue and I think that
right there it's what's going towin the hearts over of the
decision makers.
Because when I step back fromthis and I have the 37,000-foot
(21:09):
view, what I see was a largetrend for trade schools and for
university-type things this andthat, for trade schools and for
university-type things this andthat.
But the pendulum swung too farand we have begun to abandon our
arts and the things that makeus, shall we say, culturally
(21:31):
colorful people.
If everybody's out therewelding, it's going to get quite
boring in a hurry, Just sayingIf everybody's out there welding
, it's going to get quite boringin a hurry, Just saying so,
Zach.
Speaker 5 (21:41):
Well, I also think I think fiscally it certainly
would be the more responsiblething to invest in facilities on
the W's campus.
I think it would be lessdisruptive to MSMS.
Back to the very reason thatschool was founded.
It was founded to take thesebright students where they can
be fostered, where they canchallenge each other and be in a
(22:04):
supportive environment.
If they are kind of just thrownin with the general population
of another public high school,it loses a lot of its appeal.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Something that has come up in interviews that I've
done, other reporters have doneand then on the podcast,
representative Kareem mademention of it last week the name
change issue.
The general sentiment fromofficials and even community
members who have talked aboutthis publicly is that the way
(22:38):
that that was handled and theway that that ended and sort of
just the shifting in the middleof that, just that whole
operation, how it was done, madethe W a soft target for what
ended up being a bill to youknow, close a few schools or
consolidate you guys withMississippi State, and you know
(23:05):
a lot of those officials thinkthat that's still in the wind as
sort of using you guys as sortof the sacrificial lamb to then
go and close some HBCUs.
Do you agree that the way thatthe name change operation and
the way that it was handled madey'all a soft target for that
sort of thing?
I'll start there and then I'llask the second part of that
question.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
I think it made us top of mind.
We were in the news, peoplewere paying attention, so I
think that contributed to it.
But I will say also that itcomes up about every 10 years
that there's a statement thatthere are too many universities,
and always the first target isthe W.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
I mean enrollment is another part of that.
Speaker 5 (23:43):
Well, enrollment is another part of that, but it
comes up periodically andtypically, before they would go
after an HBCU, they're going tocome for us.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
How much more, I guess, is the motivation there
to strengthen and beunassailable or as close to
unassailable as you can get?
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Well, we are doing a great job of being a welcoming
place for community collegetransfer students.
We have the second highestpercentage of transfer students
of all public master'sinstitutions.
We are strengthening thoserelationships, building pathways
for students who are coming up.
They're making the decisionabout where they're going to go
(24:27):
to school based on finances.
Many of them are choosing tostart off at a community college
.
We are making it a way wherethey can transfer those hours
seamlessly.
It a way where they cantransfer those hours seamlessly.
We're also looking at otherprograms that are needed in this
state that are workforcepositions that will be growing
in the workforce and that arewell paying, and we have degrees
(24:49):
to support all 10 of thosegrowing fields.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You guys have been announcing new degree programs
in bunches lately.
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Our nursing program is the best in the state.
We know that the state ofMississippi has a health care
crisis, a shortage of nurses.
We have been trying to findways to expand nursing.
We put forth requests to thelegislature for that.
We're also talking with othersabout ways that we can do that.
Speech-language pathology bestprogram in the state.
Our recent graduates have 100%passage rate on the praxis, 100%
(25:22):
employed.
These are the graduates fromMay.
We are looking at ways to growour graduate programs because
that demographic lift fewer18-year-olds coming along the
way.
So we are building master'sprograms.
Some of those are in education.
We've got a master's of art ineducation, specializing in
(25:45):
elementary ed, a master's inmultiple exceptionalities
education.
We're looking at this master'sof hospitality and culinary
instruction and I think that'sreally going to help us grow
that culinary program.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Well, from an enrollment standpoint overall,
what metric is success or and orshows that this is working Like
?
What metric are y'all aimingfor and what?
How long is it going to take tosee that kind of growth?
Speaker 5 (26:13):
We, we track this, you know, on a weekly basis.
We look at where we arecompared to this week last year
and we're trending up.
We're seeing great growth ineducation and in business.
These are areas that we need.
We're always seeing constantgrowth in nursing.
We recognize that probably ourfreshman class.
(26:34):
Even though we are trying toget as many freshmen as we can,
we've got to really focus onthese transfers and on the
master's level.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So how many do you need, and in what amount of time
, to shore up the gate?
Speaker 5 (26:46):
We would be very happy if we hit back to the
3,000 level.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Okay, and right now y'all are around 22?
24.
24.
Okay, well, how, uh uh, youguys opened up to birmingham
southern uh folks, when theyclosed.
How many of the how?
Speaker 5 (27:04):
what was the?
Return on that very little,very little.
So most of those students werereally wanting to stay in the
birmingham area gotcha so Ithink Samford probably got the
most of those.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
For what Come over here it's great over here.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
It is great over here .
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Well, going back to the name change, I guess one.
Where is that right now?
And what do you think couldhave been done differently?
Better to make it less of anegative light shown on the
university.
Speaker 5 (27:40):
You know, I still firmly believe that we need a
name that better defines who weare and who we serve.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
You've been co-ed since the 80s.
Speaker 5 (27:48):
Yeah, that's right, but the problem is there are
only so many W names, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
Yeah, there's a lot of points in Scrabble for a W
names.
You know there's a lot ofpoints in Scrabble for a W,
isn't it?
That's right Into the six.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
Yeah, so we are.
You know, we have stepped backfrom that.
We are proudly proclaiming usas the W, and that's the way
it's going to be for a while.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Well, I mean, it's the way it's going to be for a
while.
So y'all aren't pursuing thatand you've told me that before
that y'all aren't pursuing thatactively.
But I mean, do you see thatcoming up again?
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yes, okay, it's not going to be Mississippi State
Eastern Campus, is it?
Speaker 5 (28:30):
No, I didn't care for the name they were trying to
give us.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Well, but I mean I guess, looking back at the
process that was, I mean I knowyour hindsight and armchair
quarterback and all of thatstuff.
But are there some things thatyou go back to and say, ok, we
tactically screwed that up?
Speaker 5 (28:52):
When we do this again , we're doing it differently in
this way, I think.
Let's see, I think we gotfurther with it than we've ever
gotten before and, you know, Ithink involving more of our
(29:12):
alumni early on in the processwould be a good step next time.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
Okay, do you feel like the alumni, especially the
very passionate, this justdoesn't need to happen.
Alumni, I don't want to askthis question crassly, but how
do you convert them?
Or are you guys waiting themout?
Speaker 4 (29:44):
Waiting for what Zach ?
Speaker 5 (29:47):
Well, I'm very proud of the passion that our alumni
have for our institution.
And I wish they would dig deepinto their pockets to help out
with that and to share good news.
You know, some of those alumniwho were very outspoken have not
been on campus, have not beeninvolved, and so we really want
(30:12):
to engage our alumni, let themsee that we are still the great
institution that they rememberfrom the whatever decade.
But every college has changedand continues to change every
day.
Who we serve changes, but it'sstill the same tenets, the same
basic principles and the samegood feel that our students have
(30:34):
for the institution today thatthose graduates in the 60s had,
and it's a special place.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
And in business, if you don't change, you begin to
die.
Speaker 5 (30:43):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Well, going back to the MS-MS issue and particularly
your leadership in it, thereseems to be a shift in you being
more vocal and out front inthat process.
You're here today being morevocal and out front in the in
that process.
You're here today.
You've you've been very, you'vebeen very much more definitive
in public statements that you'vemade.
You've talked about, you know,doing roadshow with other
(31:06):
podcasts and, and, and gettingmore out in front of this issue.
What was the?
What was the stimulus for theimpetus, for that evolution of
bringing you more out front, andwhy now and not before?
Speaker 5 (31:21):
In December, the State Board of Education named a
committee to look at the needsand possible expansion of MSMS
and I wanted to give them therespect and the space to do that
.
I felt, and I still feel, thisis a responsibility of the State
Board of Education and I wasgiving them the space to do that
(31:42):
.
They did not follow throughwith what I had hoped, so I'm
speaking up now.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Okay, how happy were you with the Tom Petty
comparisons in the paper?
I've got to ask you that.
Speaker 5 (31:59):
I mean, yeah, I'm a great fan of Tom Petty, but you
know he was not the mostattractive person, and neither
was that caricature.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I had nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I just want to tell you that right now I like the
song.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
I like the resolve, I like the resolve.
But yeah, that was my brother'sgot a big kick out of that one.
It hit Washington and Missouri.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Okay, well, good deal , Good deal.
The relationship between MUWand MSMS on the day to day.
What have been the challengesto that through this process and
how has that changed?
Where is it now?
Speaker 5 (32:43):
I think that the main challenge has been that MSMS
has felt the need to remainneutral and to not speak up one
way or the other.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
I mean self-preservation Right.
They've got to go wherever.
Speaker 5 (32:58):
yeah, so that that just makes it a little awkward
okay, because you don't reallyknow yeah, and I, I can't speak
for them, um, and they arehesitant to you know, I
understand well, the leadership.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:20):
That they are in a position where they can't really
do much.
So it's yeah, it's kind ofawkward.
I'm out here asking for fundsfor them and asking for
legislators to take care of themand asking them to keep them on
.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Well, I mean, they've been pretty vocal in wherever
we go.
Speaker 5 (33:35):
Yeah, we need.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
We need certain things that we don't have.
So they have been vocal in thatrespect.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
Well, they just want to keep the kids from drowning,
regardless of which boat theyend up on.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Right, right, right, but is there I'm just going to
ask this question outrightBetween those two institutions,
the W and MSMS, in regards tothem coming to you and saying,
look, we need this, can the Wstep up here?
And either you won't or youcan't, or there's just some
(34:11):
reason why that doesn't cometogether.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
Some of this is just your basic state procurement
policies and working through theState Bureau of Buildings.
This air conditioning unit forHooper we started that project
back in September and we've beenpushing it along.
But it takes getting thingsthrough some hoops and I
understand MSMS's frustration.
We're frustrated about it too,but that's just the way things
(34:42):
work.
Speaker 4 (34:43):
Do they, though?
I haven't heard of kids being,you know, sweltering in a room,
since, like civil rights andsegregation, it's almost like
the legislature is trying tosweat the kids out and force
them to move to Starkville.
Am I being too dramatic?
Speaker 5 (34:59):
I think you're being way too dramatic.
I think you've noticed what wasit last summer?
All the temporary units thatwere at Lowndes County
Courthouse.
There's just a shortage ofthings.
And now, with tariffs and thecost of everything, these large
units, they're not just sittingsomewhere waiting.
(35:20):
And, as a matter of fact, theunits for Hooper are to be
shipped from New Mexico on April22nd, arriving here, or April
August 22nd, arriving hereAugust 29th, and they'll be in
there.
Speaker 4 (35:32):
And meanwhile you're just going to squirt a couple
cans of Freon in.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
We have located a couple of temporary units to be
delivered next week.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Cool.
Is there anything you'd like toadd?
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I would just like to add that we are looking forward
to this coming year.
We are anxious to see MSMSstudents returning at the end of
this month, beginning of August, and our students will be
moving in soon and we arelooking forward to the year.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Well, thank you so much for coming on.
We really enjoyed theconversation Hear hear.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
You've been listening to Between the Headlines and,
if I heard correctly to acertain extent I heard President
Miller say to the HBCUs they'renot coming after me, they're
coming after you and I'm juststanding in the way now well,
you saw what I did there.
You saw what I did there.
(36:23):
I saw what you did there.
They're after me we thank youfor coming on, but I'm first
block.
We appreciate you okay, thanksdo you have knee pain, muscle
weakness, weakness, swelling orcold feet?
Call King Associates Cardiologyfor an appointment today at
662-368-1169.
(36:46):
King Associates Cardiology, wecare and it shows.
If you need serious equipmentthat gets the job done, Landman
Rentals has you covered.
Skid steers, mini excavators,brush cutters, mulching heads,
you name it.
They're local, reliable andbuilt for the working man.
Give them a call at662-889-0541.
(37:11):
Stuck on the road?
Champions Towing in Columbushas your back.
Fast, reliable towing androadside help whenever you need
it, Whether it's a breakdown orlockout.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
call 662-251-9004 and get moving again, from owners,
operators and innovators.
Hear the inspiring stories ofgrowth and life lessons from
guests in Mississippi and aroundthe world, Hosted by
entrepreneur, fundraiser andreal estate broker, Colin
Krieger.
(37:42):
The podcast is based right herein the Golden Triangle
community.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
All right, zach happy .
25th episode to you.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, I can't believe it's been that many.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
I can't, but then again it's just that time of the
year for me.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I tell you.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
You know, not all podcasts make it to episode 25.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, a very small percentage of them make it that
far, so I guess we're doingsomething right.
People like to listen to you.
We're survivors, we're likecockroaches.
That's right.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
That's right People are still listening, so we
appreciate that.
We thank you, all of ourlisteners.
Big shout out to every singleone of you.
I hope that if you're notfollowing the show, you'll click
that follow button so that whena new episode comes in, it
comes straight to your device.
So you are listening to Betweenthe Headlines.
Let's talk about the interviewwith Nora Miller, shall we?
(38:39):
Yeah, what?
Speaker 1 (38:40):
did you think?
Speaker 4 (38:41):
David, oh boy, Well, there was a lot to unpack there.
I thought she was veryarticulate on the issues at hand
and I thought that she was alot more loose and open and
honest about things.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Obviously, was obviously a conversation that
was going to be a lot moreorganic than you know preparing
a statement or making a speechand I thought that it was a good
conversation on the whole.
A couple of takes that she hadtalking about sort of laying
back you know the criticism ofher not being out front sooner.
(39:18):
In that discussion about MS-MSrelocation, she said she was
giving the State Board ofEducation room to do its job.
But I mean, it seemed prettyobvious to me, as it was to you
and a whole lot of other peopleand even to her, that she
admitted that you know, the fixwas in on that.
So giving them the space to dothe job that they're supposed to
(39:41):
do advocating for MSMS andfunding it properly and
different things like that.
And now since, in the absenceof them doing what they should
have done, she is now sayingI'll be that advocate if I need
to be.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Hmm, I'll be that advocate if I need to be.
Well, I think perhaps if shewere overly belligerent from the
beginning, then maybe it wouldhave attracted the wrong kind of
publicity.
And you know, us Republicanscan be very muley headed and I
can see certain people,particularly on the Mississippi
Board of Education, justplanning their heels down.
(40:16):
Ok, if you're going to be likethat, and then it may not have
developed in the way that wewanted it to.
So maybe she knows some stuffthat we don't Maybe, but I like
the fact that her heels arefirmly planted at this point.
And the offense has started.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
I would say Well, I mean, your best defense is
always a good offense.
That's what they say.
The fact that she's here, thefact that she's planning on
going on another podcast, beingmore out front, you know,
rattling the cage if she needsto.
She's talking about getting theW alumni riled up.
(40:56):
Oh that's a that, that's herarmy man.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
That's a she.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
she spent in the name chain, she spent the whole time
fighting them.
But in this, this is anopportunity that she can fight
with them or you know, have her,her fighting along with them
for the W and for MSMS, and youknow we've said several times
that we think that that's hermost effective play and it
sounds like that's where she'sheaded and I like that.
(41:22):
I disagreed with her.
Obviously.
She gave MSMS some props of youknow being very essential to
MUW, but she maintains thatlosing MSMS isn't an existential
threat to the W and you know Icouldn't disagree more.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Yeah, I think that right there has a lot to do with
activity per square foot.
When you look at the campus ofMUW, or any campus for that
matter politicians want to lookat it and they want to see tax
dollars at work and they want toknow that that productive
things are happening.
And if you take a large chunkof that campus and vacate it and
(42:02):
you've got empty buildings thatyou can't tear down, by the way
, because they're protected.
You have to repurpose them, thenit becomes a big-time liability
, and I think Dr Miller was spoton when she said that well, the
HBCUs are right there on thetarget list.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And they've got to get her first if they want to
have any political survival andtrying to go after any HBCUs.
They've got to be able to saysee, it wasn't a target job on
an HBCU, it affected everybody,even though it was Well, you
know, it affected everybody.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
Yeah, even though it was.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Well, she has to signal to the W and the W alumni
that they're not going to justwave the white flag if MSMS goes
away.
I understand the pragmatism ofthat, but for a lot of people
who aren't in Columbus, the W isa small school.
Msms is a good chunk of theirreason for being and I think
(43:00):
that I think that if MSMS leaves, the W will fold into MSU
shortly after that as well.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Well, I'm just with you in the sense that she needs
to really stir up that alumnibase, and they've got the power
to.
Hey, I'd like to.
I'd like to see a rally.
Get those alumni out there atthe amphitheater.
You know it's got to be done byDecember 30th.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
We're not going to let you forget that, steven
Jones.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
It's going to be a wild ride.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
That we're on a trajectory.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
Not sure what it is, but we're on that trajectory
name change.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Uh part of that conversation was interesting too
.
Uh, there are only so many wnames.
I liked that.
Um, I also I mean her sayingthat it's not in an in the
immediate plan to continuepushing that, but, um, that it's
coming back.
I mean the name of that.
The name of that universityneeds to change if enrollment is
(43:57):
going to have any bump.
That is going to be sustainable.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
I think that's true.
I think perhaps that could bean item of negotiation, if, in
fact, the legislature anddecision makers will bring the
stakeholders to the table.
Yeah, let's include this inwhatever form it may happen to
be.
Yeah, let's include this inwhatever form it may happen to
be.
Other than that, we need tostop talking about it.
It's just such a lose-lose kindof issue.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
That's your solution for everything, man.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
Well, no, for that one in particular, I'll say this
when they came up with theBrightwell, bedwell, whatever it
was, university Okay, I'm like,okay, there's a name, let's go
with it.
You see these marks on my neckhere.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Yeah, I'm still suffering from the rope.
Nobody liked that, it seemedlike, and I just wanted to have
the conversation done with andover, but the alumni did not
feel the same way and, forwhatever reason, it turned into
a Trojan horse for much worsethings.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Right, and I think that that's going to be
something that, when this comesup again, those alumni need to
remember.
Their adamant dissent toprogress and change was used
against them by greater forceslater, and it nearly folded the
university into MSU.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
Well, it resulted in a very, very ugly bill to get
introduced, for sure.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
And the W survived it and continues to survive it.
Speaker 4 (45:28):
The lesson to be learned is to hey, let's keep
the main thing, the main thing.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Right, okay, I agree with that.
Moving on to CMSD, I don't knowhow much reading you've done on
what's been going on there withthe superintendent search.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
Well, per the paper, the search for the Columbus
Municipal School Districtsuperintendent has been paused
until January and perhaps later.
They had it was either two orthree finalists, if I recall.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
They had two finalists they had two.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
One of them dropped out, withdrew his or her name.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
That's correct.
Speaker 4 (46:06):
And we are left with.
Is it one finalist plus MrChapman?
Speaker 1 (46:12):
No, Mr Chapman was the other finalist.
Speaker 4 (46:14):
Okay, so that is just him.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Right, he's the last man standing here, chapman.
He was the high schoolprincipal turned assistant
superintendent.
He served a couple of stints asinterim superintendent.
This will be the longest stint.
They essentially extended thelast man standing as the interim
superintendent through the fallsemester, and this is a tryout,
(46:39):
this is a.
If you do the job well enough,we'll consider, you know,
removing the interim tag andletting you just stay there.
I don't dislike this move.
You know they had nineapplicants.
Overall, only three of them metthe minimum qualifications for
the job, and of those three,they picked two finalists and
(46:59):
one of them dropped out.
It's a safe move.
It's a stabilizing move,because you've already got
somebody who knows the district.
Is it safe, though?
Speaker 4 (47:08):
I mean think about this In 2019,.
Dr Sam Allison was appointed tothe Lowndes County School
District as the superintendent.
Right and, if you recall, therewas a second candidate who was
also at the top of the list.
I won't say that candidate'sname she's since passed away but
(47:28):
it turns out that there was abelief and there was evidence
there that they picked DrAllison because he was a man and
there was a settlement, thedetails of which I don't have
and don't care to talk muchabout.
But my point simply being youcan't go about this process
(47:51):
willy-nilly.
This is a high-profile job andyou better pay attention to the
cards that are on the table,because you've got kids at stake
and if there are people thatare left off the list, that
could come back to bite you.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
Well, of these two finalists.
I mean they didn't name theother finalist, but here's a
couple of facts.
Inune robert smith, boardpresident, says, uh, we want
this guy from kemper county,this, uh, haloot hudson, kemper
county superintendent.
He was a finalist last time.
They passed him over forstanley ellis.
So they say in june, we want to, we want to recruit him again.
(48:32):
Um, and then they have chapman.
That they acknowledge was theother finalist and a Kemper
County school board member wascoming to a CMSD board member
and talking to Robert afterward.
Those are the things that weknow so we can't right.
So we can't say definitivelythat Mr Hudson was the was the
(48:52):
other finalist, but a lot ofsigns point to Mr Hudson was the
other finalist, right.
So let's talk about then thesearch process.
They get Mississippi SchoolBoards Association to come in.
They do this whole headhuntingprocess.
We're going to gather up all ofthese.
We're going to gather up all ofthese applicants for you.
(49:13):
We're going to present you withthe applicants.
You choose your finalists, thenyou can go through the process
as you wish from there.
Ten thousand dollars in thisprocess, and the most likely
scenario right here was I mean,this Hudson fellow was the other
finalist.
The people that they broughtthem were six people who weren't
(49:37):
qualified to do the job, andthen the two finalists being the
person that Robert said hewanted them to go specifically
get and a guy that was rightdown the hall.
So what did MSBA do?
Tell me that.
And so for me, there's a fewthings that need to happen here.
One we know that CMSD has, youknow they've had a lot of
(50:01):
turnover in the superintendent'soffice.
There's been some grumblingabout, you know, micromanaging
and whether the superintendentgets to actually do their job or
to what extent they get to dothat.
Applicants don't want to hearabout that.
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Right, right, right.
They are pros.
They've been to school a longtime.
Speaker 1 (50:21):
Mr Chapman does not need to have to deal with that.
So if they're going to let himbe the interim and it's a good
faith tryout to get that job inJanuary, they need to let him do
the job.
They need to stay out of hisway and if he makes mustard,
they need to give him good,solid metrics for what he needs
(50:41):
to the boxes he needs to check,to be to to get the job in
january and if he meets them,let him have it.
If he doesn't meet them, behonest about that.
Don't squint and say, whatever,get the best person for the job
that you can get, but if youopen that process back up, can
(51:02):
we get some?
I mean, I mean, hell, do ityourself.
If the two finalists that you'regoing to get are an internal
candidate and the guy you askedfor, they might have to do that
Right.
I don't see the need to spendmore money with at least not
MSBA, who brought them sixcandidates that didn't even meet
(51:22):
the minimum requirements andtheir finalists were the guy
they asked for, most probably,and a guy right down the hall.
They can do that themselvesbetter or hire another firm that
can get them a fresh pool ofapplicants that isn't just
recycled from school district toschool district A couple of
(51:44):
things there.
Speaker 4 (51:44):
I mean, it just seems that a job of this caliber, you
could almost just put it outthere on a particular website
and have the applicants come toyou.
I don't know about paying$10,000 to advertise for this.
Moreover, to your point,speaker Jason White agrees with
you that there are probably toomany superintendents out there
(52:07):
to start with.
You know whether or not that'strue, let the listeners decide,
but there's definitely a push inthe legislature to consolidate
all of these administrativecosts, and by this time next
year, you know, mr Chapman maynot even be in this discussion,
which, by the way, is a sidenote.
(52:28):
Mr Chapman, I've noticed looksa lot like Omar Epps.
Yeah, dr Foreman on House MD.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:43):
I had to do a double take when I saw Willie Mays
Hayes in Major.
Speaker 4 (52:44):
League Two is what is who I say LMRIPS, ok, well,
that you know.
That's definitely a qualifyingfactor for the job.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
So I just this is a big job.
Cmsd shouldn't settle for less,msds shouldn't settle for less.
Speaker 4 (52:54):
One thing I can tell you is that the general public,
including any applicants, theydon't want to see any hint of
nepotism, nor do they want tosee the micromanagement If the
school board can stay away fromdoing those two things, then
(53:14):
we'll all be better off for it.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
I mean, I think that's true of any district or
any organization.
But to close the show out today, or to get toward that end,
three things to know from thepaper over the past week.
Read the paper y'all.
PACCAR laid off some of itsworkforce this week.
Mom's word from the company onhow many or why.
But PACCAR's quarterly reportfiled this week notes the
(53:36):
uncertain impact of tariffs anda soft truckload market unquote
in its north american market.
All right.
Second thing, bass master.
It's coming back to columbusnext year, this time with one of
its elite series stops.
The tournament is scheduled formarch 26th to 29th on the
10-time waterway and itrepresents the only stop for
that series in mississippi nextyear okay, here, here we need to
(54:00):
be showcasing our water yeah,you've been saying that all
along, and last year the bassmaster open came here and now
and now this so also in columbussomething we talked about, I
think, on the last episode ormaybe the episode before.
Residential garbage rates arestaying the same for the
customer at least through August2026.
City Council last week voted toabsorb the cost of a coming
(54:22):
increase from Golden TriangleWaste Services, that's the
third-party contractor thatcollects the trash.
The move will cost the cityroughly $100,000, but it will
not appear on the customer bill.
Speaker 4 (54:33):
Yeah, I've already opined We'll pay for it one way
or another.
I'm just thankful to havegarbage service.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (54:39):
I hate garbage you have been listening to Between
the Headlines.
Let's go to the mail.
Today I have one respondee, andthis is regarding the fire
station mold controversy.
The person said I just need youand Zach to know that the mold
was bad and it was only a smallpart of the issues at play.
(55:02):
So yeah, most definitelyprobably true there.
You know, zach and I, we oftentalk about things that we have
very limited information about,so we rely upon feedback such as
yours.
So we thank you for thatcomment and we thank you for
listening.
And, by the way, about onceevery year or so, public service
(55:24):
announcement, particular tothose of you who live out in the
county you're going to havethis older gentleman pull up in
a pickup in your driveway onbehalf of the volunteer fire
department.
He's going to knock on the doorand he's going to ask for $40.
Okay, do not hide from this guy.
Okay, break out the billfold,turn to page 100.
(55:46):
You're not going to miss thatmoney.
Hats off to our volunteerfiremen and firewomen.
Between the headlines with Zachand David.
This will conclude episodenumber 25.
Anything you need to throw inthere?
No, I think that's got it Allright.
Well, let's close it out.
Tips at cdispatchcom.
Tips at cdispatchcom or followme personally at dchism00.
(56:10):
Anything we see on a publicpost we might catch on to and
and discuss on this show.
It's been a good one.
Be sure to follow the show andwe will sign out from catfish
alley studios here in historicdowntown columbus.
Your host has been zach playerand I am david chisholm.
Until next time.
(56:30):
Y'all keep it friendly, we'llkeep it real no-transcript.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.