MSMS Move Recommended; Jason Spears Interview; Ward 6 Dilemmas; Mickens' Legal Loss

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A seismic shift is coming to Columbus as the MS Board of Education unanimously votes to recommend relocating Mississippi School for Mathematics and Science (MSMS) from Mississippi University for Women to Mississippi State University. With only legislative approval standing in the way, this decision threatens to leave a gaping hole in MUW's campus, where MSMS students currently represent 10% of the student population and 40% of residential students on campus.

Questions abound regarding the evaluation process that led to this decision, with MSU scoring 363 points to MUW's 304 on a mysterious rubric developed behind closed doors. Critics point to the fiscal absurdity of planning to invest money to improve MSMS facilities at MUW even as they prepare to abandon them. Most troubling to many is MUW President Nora Miller's apparent acquiescence, with her last-minute demand for increased fees from MSMS raising eyebrows about her true priorities.

The podcast also explores Ward 6 City Council candidate Jason Spears' vision for Columbus, as he emphasizes the need for better financial management, infrastructure improvements, and stronger relationships with county officials. Spears, drawing on his decade of school board experience and financial expertise, highlights drainage issues across Ward 6 neighborhoods and advocates for a more methodical approach to city growth and development projects like Burns Bottom.

Local politics took another turn as Joe Mickens lost his court challenge questioning opponent residencies in Ward 2, clearing the path for "Mrs. She She" O'Neil and Roderick Smith to remain on the ballot. With the MSMS decision now heading to the legislature and city elections approaching, Columbus stands at a crossroads that will determine its future for generations to come. Will our representatives fight to the last man, or will they negotiate terms of surrender as the "Babylonian invasion" continues?

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and

(00:38):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now Between the Headlines.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
Ladies and gentlemen, buckle your safety belt.
Today, on Between the Headlines, we have late breaking news out
of Jackson, where theMississippi Department of
Education Board has votedunanimously to accept the
recommendation of the MSMSsubcommittee who are two people,

(01:05):
by the way to move MSMS fromhere to Starkville.
We will bemoan this and unpackit and say what this is going to
mean and talk about what'sgoing to happen going forward.
But in lighter news, today wealso have special guest, mr

(01:26):
jason spears, candidate for wardsix.
We will talk about um thesituation happening in that
primary race and, last but notleast, that's it.
So says Shishi, o'neill andRoderick, who have arisen

(01:55):
victorious in their court battlewaged by Mr Joe Mickens.
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And now a message frompolitical candidate Bill Strauss

(03:24):
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Speaker 2 (03:25):
I want to thank the Commercial Dispatch for this
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Paid for by campaign to electBill Strauss.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
And now a message from political candidate Jason
Spears.

Speaker 5 (03:53):
I am Jason Spears, candidate for City Council, Ward
6.
Over the past 20 years, Ifaithfully and effectively
served our community in manydifferent ways.
If elected, I will bringstructure and strategy to the
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(04:15):
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Speaker 1 (04:29):
Well, David, I don't know if Mississippi State's
going to beat Baylor tomorrow inthe NCAA tournament, but they
did evidently beat MississippiUniversity for Women in Jackson
today by a score of 363 to 304,from what I understand.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
That number representing the rubric score of
the two proposals, respectively, that were submitted by MUW and
by Mississippi State.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Yes, no word on what that rubric was or who even
created it.
They're talking about creatingthe RFP, like the request for
proposals the State Board ofEducation is asking at
Thursday's hearing.
They're sitting there wonderingwho created the request for
proposals.
Well, I thought it was them.
Didn't they create that?
Didn't they approve that?

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Creates more questions than answers.
But just to break it down, theboard has voted to move MSMS
from MUW to Mississippi State,as we've been warning about.
That's pending legislativeapproval, Pending legislative
approval.
Now what's next?
What's going to happen?

(05:31):
Okay, it is too late for ageneral bill to be proposed from
the legislature, but it's nottoo late this session for them
to amend an appropriation billand add something in there which
I think would be totallyillegal, which could be put to

(05:52):
the Mississippi Supreme Court,which might be a waste of money
because it would do nothing butbuy us time Nonetheless, I mean
you also have the bond billthat's going to be building an
essay or a store of a highschool.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
So I mean, does it get affixed to that?
Also have the bond bill that'sgoing to be, uh, build an essay
or start a high school.
So I mean, does it get affixedto that?
I don't really know the I'm.
I'm not going to pretend like Iknow the all of the nuts and
bolts of that, but, uh, wheneverthey do it, they're going to
have the opportunity to vote onit per a unanimous
recommendation from the stateboard of education.
Now I think that one importantpart of this is that they're

(06:25):
estimating two to two and a halfyears to actually get the
school moved, and theyacknowledge that.
You know something needs to bedone with the living conditions
of these kids at the existingMSMS campus at MUW.
Something needs to be done withthat.
They need to invest some moneythere to make the next two to
two and a half years, you know,be more comfortable for them.

(06:47):
After the last decade or so,that hasn't mattered to them and
for me.
Why would you bother investingmoney into fixing dorms that
you're going to move them out of, fixing facilities that you're
going to move them out of?
If you're going to invest themoney to fix the facilities that
you're going to move them outof, why don't you just leave
them there?

Speaker 4 (07:04):
Well, they're going to drop seven, maybe eight
figures, let's just say seven oneither improving or building
something.
Meanwhile, in the Hooperbuilding they're doing without
an air conditioner, like someschool from the 1960s, you know,
the black school back in thesad times of segregation, or

(07:28):
like some second world country.
And here you and I on this showhave been talking the whole
time.
Instead of recreating the will,instead of totally throwing the
baby out with the bathwater,totally throwing the baby out
with the bathwater, fix the partthat is broke, the part being
not the system, not theacademics, not the results, the

(07:53):
facilities, the buildings, theair conditioner, the dorm and
they've had since what?

Speaker 1 (07:58):
1987 to do it and hadn't done anything about it.
Now, all of a sudden they're soconcerned about it to where now
they're willing to do both fixthe ones, anything about it.
Now, all of a sudden they're soconcerned about it to where now
they're willing to do both fixthe ones here and build some
over there.
And that doesn't make any senseto me and that doesn't seem
fiscally responsible.
But you know, it begs thequestion if the fix was in all
along.
And I'll let you take that one.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
Well, absolutely fiscally irresponsible, in the
sense that you're going to have81 out of 82 counties footing
the bill for a school.
Okay, just to kind of back upand look at this, you've got
Starkville Partnership MiddleSchool.
Okay, which was kind of statefunded right.

(08:39):
Yeah, likewise the same thing.
This, according to the proposal, would be state funded, right.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
So again partially yeah, partly.

Speaker 4 (08:49):
Octavia.
Hawk County doesn't have tobond out as much to build their
own dadgum school.
Lowndes County gets to help payfor that.
Prentiss County helps get topay for that.
So, yeah, definitely notfiscally responsible.
But when you talk about, wasthe fix in, okay, was this a

(09:10):
foregone conclusion?
No, was it a foregoneopportunity?
I would say yes, zach.
I have tried not to be cynical.
I have tried not to paint thepeople who are looking after our
kids and looking after theeducation system in general, not

(09:31):
to paint them in such a darkfashion.
But it is really really hard atthis point in time.
Andy Boyd, last week I talkedto him.
He had to kind of talk me offof a cliff because I was losing
my mind in this conspiratorialtype thinking.
But when things happen behindclosed doors, when you have a

(09:52):
subcommittee of two peoplemaking these recommendations, it
really, really makes it hard togive people the benefit of a
doubt.
This is a shady situation andthe result of it is going to be
very dire.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Well, whether the fix was in or not, there's some
things I want to address here.
First of all, evidentlysomething that came up at the
board meeting Thursday inJackson Nora drops a rent demand
or a fee demand or increasingthe fees that MSMS pays to MUW

(10:33):
to be there.
Chooses yesterday to drop ademand of over a million dollars
.
Yeah, okay, so increasing feesis built into their proposal
that they sent to mde, butyesterday, yesterday, david, um,
it says a lot okay, and and andto me.

(10:54):
You know, I honestly, you know,from a practical standpoint it
may be fair to ask for thosefees, but yesterday the the.
From a timing standpoint, itcouldn't have been worse it?
It leads me to my hottest takeon this whole thing is is Nora
Miller relieved by this result?
Worse still, is this what shewanted all along?

(11:15):
And, based on the timing ofthis and what can fairly be
described as her utter lack ofenthusiasm in the fight to keep
MSMS here this entire time, Imean, does she see losing MSMS
as a necessary casualty to getthe legislative invaders off the
W's lawn?
And it seems like she might.

(11:35):
Apologies for the long rant hereand apologies for getting a
little biblical about it, butthe very first thing that I
thought of when I was hearingabout all of this overnight,
last night and this morning, thevery first thing that I thought
of was the Babylonian invasionof Jerusalem in the Old
Testament.
Oh boy, you know, theBabylonians showed up twice to

(11:57):
Jerusalem in that story.
The first time they didn'tdestroy the city, they just wait
for it hauled off Jerusalem'sbest and brightest into
captivity.
You remember that part.
But the Babylonians came backand when they did, they cut off
Jerusalem's water supply, laidsiege to the city until its
citizens resorted to eating eachother.
So who are the Babylonians here?

(12:18):
You know legislature, msu, itdepends on who you ask, but you
know they destroyed the city thesecond time and they carried
the survivors off into captivity.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
Is Nora a part Babylonian now?

Speaker 1 (12:33):
I would think that she probably needs to pay close
attention to Zedekiah's fate inthat story, ooh boy.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
Well, nora is—I'm sorry.
She's just shown herself not tobe willing to go down with the
ship right now.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
Well, and I mean again, is she kicking them off,
Is she kicking them out so shecan get the invaders off the
line?
That's my question.

Speaker 4 (12:54):
She's a very, very smart woman and she has more
conversations about this thananyone anyone and she is one of
the few people that can go downunderneath the deck and see how
much water is pouring into thebilge of this ship.
She sees the damage, she seesthe writing on the wall and, in

(13:18):
terms of her career, I guessshe's put her family first,
which I mean you can't blank,David.

Speaker 1 (13:24):
David, you can't fend off invaders by negotiation,
you can't pay tribute to them,you can't surrender territory to
them, you can't let them takehostages.
You fight hard, you fight dirtyif you have to and you fight
down to the last damn man ifnecessary.
That way, if you lose David,you can at least hold your head
up, say you left everything onthe field.
And it doesn't matter whatNora's motives are right here.

(13:47):
It doesn't matter whether itwas she didn't know, she just
wasn't prepared, or she actuallywanted this result in some way.
She cannot hold her head up inthis moment and she damn sure
can't look at Columbus citizens,the W community or the alumni
and say that she left everythingon the field.
She can't.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
She has chosen to acquiesce.
Yes, that's what I'm seeing,Because if you choose to fight,
you also must choose to win.
Yeah, and you know I'm sittingback looking at this thing.
If Clyda Stokes' rent werepresident of MUW right now,

(14:24):
people like Rob Robertson wouldbe in her office begging
forgiveness for all of this.
This is a shame to thetradition of excellence for
women and men, because the endresult of it, if we don't play
our cards right, we are going tohave a giant hole in the city
of Columbus.
You're going to look.
This is a Brian Foods levelevent that is about to go down.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
It's going to hurt absolutely everybody.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
A very good comparison, god forbid.
Let me point out one thing, andthat is Dr Evans, who was on
that two-person subcommittee, isa graduate of Mississippi State
.
Clanga, clanga, clanga, I mean,all of these things play into
this.
I mean, we're all humans.
I'm not saying that the bestinterest of the kids is not
considered, but my goodness, thelooks of it.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Well, I mean, I'm not going to throw any rocks at.

Speaker 4 (15:17):
Mississippi State, here I mean.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
I know you will.
I'm not going to throw anyrocks at Mississippi State
because they saw it.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
I have skipped the past three basketball games
because I just can't stomachgoing out there right now.
This is ugly, and it was.
We're in pain.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Look they, they, you know at.
The worst case scenario is theytook and they took advantage of
an opportunity that nor handedthem on a plate.
I'm not going to throw anyrocks at Mississippi State for
doing this and I'm going to saywhat I've said before, which I
think that they will be the beststeward they possibly can be
for Mississippi School forMathematics and Science, if it
actually does end up going thereby legislative vote.

(15:55):
I think Babylon is more thelegislature in this example.

Speaker 4 (16:00):
There's no ball field , Zach.
It's like a prison.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
You don't know what it's going to be like David.

Speaker 4 (16:06):
You just need a drawing.
No, the drawings are awful.
They're either going to busthem to go play ball, or they're
going to let them cross thefour lane and go play out in the
cotton field, or they're goingto let them God forbid share
athletic facilities with NCAADivision I athletes.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
I don't think that we have enough information to make
those characterizations withany authority.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Well, I don't guess information is necessary.
We're just going to push thisthing through and let it be the
death knell of MUW that it is.
Look at the stats, look at thestats.
Okay, that it is Okay.
Look at the stats.
Look at the stats.
Okay, 10% of the studentpopulation on that campus is
student, and of those thatactually live there, 40% of them

(16:54):
are.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
MSMS.
So what you're saying?
Yes, 10% of the students thatare on MUW's campus are MSMS
students, Correct.
And 40% of the students thatlive on the W campus are MSMS
students and they've already gotvacant buildings which?
Brings me to the next question.
Ok, nora Miller in her lettertalking about how the her I will

(17:17):
survive letter, her GloriaGaynor letter in that Gloria
Gaynor who did that song?
Her Gloria Gaynor letter to thepublic, where we will survive
if MSMS leaves you, rememberthat one.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
I do.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
From a month or so ago.
She said well, if it leaves,we'll just repurpose it, ok.
Well, you've got a.
You've got a 40 percent holenow in your dormitories and
you've got a 10 percent hole inthe students walking around on
your campus Plus the buildingsthat are already falling down
and you're already the smallestschool.
You're already the smallestpublic university by enrollment

(17:50):
in the state or one of them.
You're either seventh or eighth.
So tell me now, Nora, how willwe survive the blue flag?

Speaker 4 (17:58):
will come down and the maroon flag will come up and
bulldozers will be all over theback of campus, or just vines.
And that's what it's going tobe, unless we.
The only thing we have goingfor us is this caveat If it
passes the legislature, you needa bill for this to happen.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
OK, OK.
So, which begs the question,and now we?
And now we get to the challengefor those who can do something
about it now, Dana Chuck Kabir,Andy you're up.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
OK, they're definitely on board.
I don't know how much senioritythey have and how much leverage
they will have to save it.
I feel this is just David,figure it out.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
They better, they better throw everything you've
got at this or publicly admitthat it doesn't matter to you.
But I go back to what Norashould have done from the
beginning and I will say itagain to the four that we just
challenged you fight hard, youfight dirty if you have to and
you fight to the last man ifnecessary, period.
Or you say you know what, we'refine with it, but either way

(19:08):
say it, say one or the other, dothe fighting.
Or say you're fine with it butdo one or the other.

Speaker 4 (19:15):
I think the Mississippi House has got its
hands full with this and that Idon't think they want to do much
with it.
I think, frankly, that lowerbody is a madhouse right now and
I don't think they want to domuch with it.
I think, frankly, that lowerbody is a madhouse right now and
I don't trust them.
I wish that I did, but I don'ttrust them.
They'll pass the bill and it'sgoing to be up to the Senate to
save us.
OK, so you're saying Chuck,you're up, chuck, you're up, and

(19:38):
we're either going to have tonegotiate a path to victory or
terms for divorce that don'tleave a big hole in the back of
campus.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Okay, yeah, what is the plan?
Are we going to sit here?

Speaker 4 (19:51):
and let the likes of Rob Robertson keep doing this to
us, and and just let them takeit La-di-da-da.
There they go, they're gone.
And now what?
Okay, this is, uh, the battleof Wilmington.
It is upon us.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Well, I'd go back to the challenges on Dana Kabir,
chuck Andy, get to it.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
And alum.
I mean because because, quitehonestly, you look down there at
that legislature.
I mean you and I aren't goingto particularly care about what
happens in tishomingo or placeslike that, but people care in
that body what happens locallyand so if you get, if you, if
you cared about that name changeso much that you were willing

(20:39):
to make phone calls and go tothe capitol and burn nora in
effigy for even suggesting itCorrect.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
If that was your attitude, then what say you now?

Speaker 4 (20:49):
Well, I mean, really the only leg we have to stand on
from a political, persuasivestandpoint is we don't want to
build a school for anothercounty period.
That's something that's goingto resonate with the Senate and
I think that might be the cruxof our argument.
Y'all read the paper, like Isay, this stuff is just coming

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Speaker 1 (22:27):
Next on the agenda Mickens has his day in court and
loses.
How about that?
David Surprised.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
I've not been less surprised about anything in my
life.
I mean, the only thing that didsurprise me is how long it took
to come to the decision.
Now I'm looking at this, tryingto be objective.
The only thing in the wholesituation that looked remotely
permissible as evidence was thatletter that I guess Mickens

(22:58):
sent to.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
Roderick's house.
Somebody sent it to whereRoderick supposedly lived and it
came back to the sender, orwhatever, and it had a stamp on
it that said the wrong rightlike he's and the and the judge
ultimately didn't find that tobe nearly enough and you know,
nor did he find the uhtheoretical or anecdotal

(23:20):
evidence of uh mcconn stalkinghis opponents to see where that
was weird.

Speaker 4 (23:26):
Yeah, that was pretty weird.
That was bizarre.
Can you imagine you're, you'reat your home, or you're at your
wife's home or whatever?
The?

Speaker 1 (23:35):
case is and mickens is on stakeout across the street
eating a sandwich and lookingwell, no, he's.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
he's in a pickup truck, he looks like w Walt
Kowalski off of Gran Torino andhe's like holding his little
hand pistol at you.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
It's really creepy stuff, but there is something I
want to go into.
It's something that we'vereported in the paper at the
time when it happened, but it'spart of the complexities of this
race that we haven't talkedabout on the podcast.
I think it could be important.

(24:11):
In 2017,.
Mickens lost the election dayvote in Ward 2.
This was the last time he hadan opponent and he seemed like
he was headed to a runoff withEric Thomas, who was in first
place by three votes when youjust counted the election day
votes of the ballot box.
But in comes the absentees, andMickens took those by a 178 to
15 margin.
That's security re-electionwithout even having to have a

(24:33):
runoff in a three-person race.
In Mississippi, if you'retemporarily or permanently
disabled, you can vote absenteeand you can get any other adult
to provide a witness signatureon your ballot.
Now, what that usually means isthe person who brought you the
ballot turns out to be thewitness that puts their

(24:54):
signature on it before it getssent in Now in 2017, that same
race where 178 of all theabsentee votes went to Mickens
and that's not just the disabledabsentees.
Mickens' wife provided thewitness signature for 30 of
those absentee ballots in Ward 2, just in Ward 2.

(25:16):
So maybe Mickens does have timeto stalk his opponents after
all.
But there's another point here.
Another layer is that same race.
Guess who was one of thehighest volume witness
signatories on absentee ballotscitywide?

Speaker 4 (25:33):
I was out of town.
I have no clue.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
Her name was Sarah Deloach, who's now deceased, and
, by all accounts, was a lovelylady.
I met her a couple of times.
She was great for city ofcolumbus in a lot of ways.
She volunteered and she sorelymissed in the community, but she
was a heavy hitter in the inabsentee ballot witnessing in

(25:59):
2017 and in years prior.
You want to know who hergrandson is and in years prior.

Speaker 4 (26:08):
You want to know who her grandson is.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Roderick Smith, Holy cow.
So I don't even want to touchthat.
If Roderick's inheritedpolitical legacy is less Bronnie
James and more Ken Griffey Jr,that could get interesting.
And another thing that couldget interesting is when you look
at Ms Shishi.
She seems to be pretty wellknown in that ward and has
seemingly cozied up nicely tothe local Democratic Party
apparatus.
So, I'm intrigued to see howall of this you know when you

(26:32):
put all those three, three ofthose things together.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
They're looking for somebody to cuddle up with,
because Mickens is not going tocuddle up with them.
Now, mickens has totally thrownhis party under the bus, and
it's been ugly, ugly.
I find it really noteworthy whatKabir Kareem said after this
ruling came down.
He said, basically this was adistraction.
He said I am glad that this isbehind us and now we can get

(26:58):
back to doing more importantthings, the work of the people.
It's like like my goodness, howdo you say that one of your
candidates is full of fecalmatter without saying that he's
full of fecal matter?

Speaker 1 (27:12):
I mean he went so far as to say I think he went so
far as to say this has beenkeeping me from doing my job as
a House member.

Speaker 4 (27:20):
Here we are.
What two weeks out from theprimary?

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, and he better get to going, unless he's
intending to win the same way hewon in 2017, he better get to
going.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
The whole narrative has not focused on a single
policy issue or a singlecollaboration, not one.
It's all been.
Are my opponents legally on theballot?

Speaker 1 (27:38):
Get them off the ballot, because I would rather
run unopposed than be afraid ofthem.
We talked to Jason Spearsearlier, who's running in Ward 6
, and we'll have that interviewas part of this podcast today.
Table or you got to pick theRepublican table.

(28:10):
If you pick the Democratictable, you get to vote in the
mayor's race.
If you pick the Republicantable and it's an open primary
so anybody can choose either onebut if you pick the Republican
table, you get to vote in theRepublican primary for Ward 6
council, which is Jason Spearsversus Kimberly McCarty Davis.
So if you're in Ward 6, david,I mean, I know you live out in

(28:31):
the county but if you lived inthe city and you lived in Ward 6
, what would you do?

Speaker 4 (28:36):
Well, if I like both of these candidates which I do
then I'm very, very tempted togo in there and vote either for
or against a certain mayoralcandidate.
I mean just being quite frankabout it.
Now, you know it's interestingto me.
There are people who will goback through the records and

(28:56):
they'll now, if I did that, theywould say, oh man, chisholm
voted in the Democrat line.
And you know that would be liketake your picture, oh man.

Speaker 1 (29:05):
And it would be a black guy.
We would have a standalone onthe inside like Republican Party
.
Chair votes in Democraticprimary.
We're ready for you.

Speaker 4 (29:13):
It's bad.
I mean it is definitely frownedupon in certain circles.
But if you look at places likeWest Point, I mean, where almost
everything is run by theDemocrat Party, I mean
Republicans do that all the timethere because they've learned
how to adapt and how to work thesystem.

Speaker 1 (29:31):
So well, I mean in this particular primary, where
you have to choose to vote inone or the other and there's a
competitive race in each.
Who benefits in each scenario?

Speaker 4 (29:41):
Well, I've been thinking of this and looking at
it, and and I think that LeroyBrooks will be the benefactor of
it on the mayoral side.
But Republican votes yeah, yeah,but I mean he will because of
his peculiar bipartisan dragthat he has, and it's
interesting to me, you wouldthink that, with Brooks having

(30:01):
been in Columbus politics for aslong as he has, that he would
be like the insider candidate,he would be the one that people
are tired of looking at it.
But no, it's quite the opposite.
The atmosphere out there feelslike those who want to throw a
Molotov cocktail in the systemare going to use him to do it,

(30:26):
as opposed to Stephen Jones.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
You know, and I agree with you, I think that Leroy
had you know, not to say thatStephen hasn't courted across
the aisle at all, but Leroy, Ido believe, has done a more
effective job drawing Republicanvoters to his camp.
You know, and I think that'sgoing to be reflected in the
primary results across all thewards.
An equally interesting questionis how the presence of the

(30:49):
mayor's race affects how theWard 6 council race goes,
because, as you said, you wouldbe tempted to vote in the
mayor's primary if you lived inthat ward, and I think that a
lot of people are too.
So I think this Ward 6 primaryis going to have very low
turnout and that probablybenefits Spears solely from a
name recognition standpoint.

(31:10):
And I'm not saying that peopledon't know, miss Davis.
What I'm saying is, when youtake a rank and file voter who
knows neither one of thempersonally, which one are they
most likely to have heard of?
And I think that's Jason.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
I think that it's going to be very, very, very,
very tight.
And I think that let's sayyou're on the McCarty Davis team
and you come in to vote for herand it's 1 pm and you notice
that on the Republican sign insheet you are number 19 on the
list.
I mean you're going to bemaking some phone calls.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
You know, I think that the opportunity here,
knowing that you're going tohave lower turnout and knowing
that name recognition may be anissue for you If I was Miss
Davis, I'd rent a bus.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
Well, it definitely benefits the ground game.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yep.
Yep.
Jason Spears, ward 6 Republicancandidate for council.
Thanks for joining us today,and the very first question I
want to ask you, jason, isMayor's race, ward 6 council
race.
Which one are you voting inApril 1st?

Speaker 5 (32:15):
Ward 6.
Oh okay, why is that?
Well, it's a tough question,but one I feel I have to do my
duty for sitting back and tryingto support what the residents
of Ward 6 hopefully want to votefor.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
Well, I mean, it's kind of a jokey question to
start off with, but on a seriousnote, I mean people who want to
vote in that primary.
They're going to have to choosebetween voting in the
Republican primary between youand Ms Davis or voting in the
mayor's race.
How do you think that's goingto affect?
I mean, well, let's start withy'all's race.

(32:49):
How's it going to affecty'all's race in your opinion?

Speaker 5 (32:52):
Sure, I do believe it will have an impact on the race
and the numbers and I certainlyunderstand the dilemma that is
set forth for people to makethat decision.
You know, I know in Ward 6, alot of the residents I've talked
to you know are kind ofbattling back and forth with it.
But you know I understand thatthey also realize that in their
ward they want to see someprogress, they want to see some
decisions made that will helpyou know a lot of different

(33:15):
growth possibilities there andwant to, you know, support a
candidate that will help them dothat.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Okay, and I want to say something here.
We invited Ms Davis onto thepodcast today to be with you.
She graciously declined,responded, graciously declined.
She had a work conflict and wehad a short notice invitation to
both of you yesterday.
You were able to make it andshe wasn't.

(33:42):
So we hate that.
We missed her, but at the sametime she was very upfront with
us and we appreciate that fromher.
Looking at your background,you're obviously financial
advisor in town.
You spent a decade on theschool board.
You're on the ColumbusRedevelopment Authority board.
You're making the jump to wantto get on the council.

(34:04):
Take me through that decisionprocess and why you.
You know why you qualify.

Speaker 5 (34:12):
Sure, well, I appreciate that question because
you know, as a 17-year residentof Ward 6, I know more than the
.
You know pulse reading of whatthe ward is like.
You know I know the arteriesthat are getting clogged up and
I feel very confident in myability of understanding.
You know what steps need to betaken.
As you know, one city councilperson, sometimes you can get

(34:32):
bogged down with the needs ofother wards and different things
and certainly I'm there to helpserve the entire city.
But you know we also have tolook at where things are in Ward
6.
You know we talk about theblight program, we talk about
things that are going on in thecity and I feel that I'm very
well versed in those areasbecause I've been at the table
with the CRA.
I see what's happening, you know, in the Burns Bottom area.

(34:53):
I know the promise that we cansee up Highway 45 and the
developments that's happened.
I understand the TIF agreementsthat the city currently has
with the old University Mallwhere Dick's and Michael's are
located.
I also understand you know,those agreements that are in
place with Columbus Place andthe whole group Also understand
you know those agreements thatare in place with Columbus Place
and the whole group, and I knowthat there's some things that
we need to expedite from thecity council level to get

(35:15):
through those agreements so thatthe next project that comes
along if it's Old Seacoast site,if it's other things on Highway
45, we're able to capitalize onit and certainly understanding
that aspect of what the cityneeds to do will benefit the
residents of Ward 6, but alsothe city as a whole.
I have been very optimistic ingoing around.

(35:37):
I've run my race solely in mylane.
I haven't gotten into otherraces.
I stood on my record becauseI'm proud of it.
It wasn't earned easily.
There's a lot of battles atdifferent boardrooms and tables
and stuff, but I'm unafraid tostand along when necessary to
point out things that need to beaddressed and getting results

(35:57):
that need to happen.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
Speaking of things that need to be addressed, I
want to pick your brain aboutthe amphitheater.
It's the big elephant in theroom right now.
Um, it's, it's the big elephantin the room right now, and the
latest on that is this um planthat Mr Green is behind, and
it's basically and Mr Jones yeah, mr Jones for sure.

(36:19):
Uh, mr Jones is going to takecredit for it regardless of what
happens.
But be that the case, the ideais to put city money into it and
then some CVB money into it,and then beg the county for some
money, which, by the way, Idon't think there's a snowball's
chance of the county puttingmoney toward finishing the

(36:42):
amphitheater.
What say you?
Should the CVB ante up on that?

Speaker 5 (36:48):
Well, I do understand that it is a tourism promotion
machine, if it comes into being.
You know, when I say machine, Iwant to be very clear about
what I mean is that you know itdoes create event opportunities
and it will put people in hotelsand it will bring dollars to
the city.
I believe that's part of theirmission at the CVV.

(37:09):
Now, with the overall plan ofhow it's coming together, I mean
, I like to have things muchmore planned and prepared as you
move forward in what it is thatyou're trying to accomplish.
I think the amphitheater, youknow, with all the money that's
been put into the state, wedon't have any skin in the game.
Now I'm much more mindful ofwhere we stand financially in

(37:30):
the city before I can say weneed to take this and we need to
expend that in our own dollars.
Does that compromise us in theshort term or the long term?
I don't have all those answersthere of the city finances and
there is the current one that isunderway that I think, once

(37:51):
those questions are answered, Icould be more specific in saying
, yeah, we've got a million ortwo million that you should put
into it, but at this particularpoint I believe things need to
be self-sustaining in thosespecial project type ideas.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Well, I want to back up to.
You talked about Ward 6 and theneeds for Ward 6.
So I'm going to ask you sort ofa sticky one here.
Sure One, how do you thinkthose needs are being met now?
And I guess, to piggyback offof that, the incumbent in that
ward isn't running.
Would you have primaried her ifshe had decided to run?

(38:24):
Would you have primaried her ifshe had decided to?

Speaker 5 (38:26):
run.
To answer your last questionfirst.
Yes, because I feel that youknow, I've watched and observed
and there's a lot of things thatI feel have gone well and
things that haven't necessarilybeen addressed.
And so I took it upon myself,long before we even got to the

(38:49):
end of the year, to even have adiscussion with her about how my
intentions were to run.
And if she did choose to runthat you know it wouldn't be a
competition or anything againsther, it's just I felt led.
At this point there were somethings that I wish I felt I was
skilled enough and versed enoughto address and that's why I
would step forward as acandidate.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Skilled, more skilled than was being, is being done
now.
Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 5 (39:11):
I feel like in the financial aspects that continue
to come up continuously at everyboard meeting and a lot of the
decisions that are either beingmoved forward with or not being
addressed.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
yes, Okay, what are some of the ones that you feel
like should have gonedifferently in this term?

Speaker 5 (39:24):
Well, we talk about blight, for example, and it is
throughout the city in certainconcentrations, certain area.
I've walked the tallest hillsit's a bit feel like mountains
in Ward six to get to houses allover Ward six.
I've, you know, walked acrossand even just the other day,
when the storms blew through andwe were fortunate that we
didn't have the storms that hit,you know, grenada and other
places.

(39:45):
But flooding in drainage, youknow, are a lot of different
things that we've heard aboutwith the ARPA funds and things.
Well, I drove around and rightafter that, huge downpour
happened in Ward 6, I drovearound through the hospital, I
drove around Canterbury, I drovearound Williamsburg, I drove
all over Sleepy Hollow, I droveeverywhere North Haven Woods,
because that's what I kepthearing people talk about

(40:05):
flooding and drainage and things.
Well, you get out and you gosee it.
What I kept hearing people talkabout flooding and drainage and
things Well, you get out andyou go see it.
There it is and I've got videosof it so that that way I'll
know what's the problem.
And I went back just the otherday, before I went out house to
house and spoke to some of thoseresidents that stressed that I
showed them.
Hey, here's the video I have.
They took me inside, showed mepictures that they have and I go

(40:25):
back to.
Is that my reason for doingthis?
Because I've seen those similarissues.
Not everyone has blight in theirneighborhood.
There are areas of focus inward six.
We might want to look, you know, really try to prevent from
falling in that category.
But really the drainage aspectis what we need dollars for
paving certain areas, just smallstrips, not the whole street.
That would make a profounddifference in those areas.

(40:47):
Patchwork that has happened inthe wards, of concrete that's
now elevated, that caused it topull up by the street.
So I think it's just a matterof being in tune with what's
going on.
That's why I said I feel like Iknow the arteries that are
clogging more than just thepulse of what's happening in
Ward 6.
And that's why I was optimisticand really kind of gung-ho
about going after and serving inWard 6 is because I am in those

(41:10):
areas all the time and Iunderstand, you know what needs
to be done and I feel like that,from a financing side of it, we
can't tax our way into theprosperity that we all want.
We've got to find ways togenerate revenue that is based
upon how things are happening,you know, putting people in
hotel rooms or people spendingmoney at this store, that store.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
Well, the sad thing about it is the things that you
speak of, especially thedrainage and the infrastructure
and this, and that they're notsexy things to talk about
because they cost a lot of money.
They're not sensational, theyare, to a certain extent boring.
They're not sensational, theyare to a certain extent boring.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
And yet these are the very things that are the path
to financial prosperity for ourtown, which leads to this and
that and the other.
It really is.
I mean, if you go and if youwanted to step out of Columbus
which I do frequently with mywork and you look at some of the
most well, you would think wellput together, well run
communities.
Yes, you see the flowers, yes,you see the nice trees, the big
houses, but you see curb andgutter.

(42:22):
You see drains that aren't,that aren't blocked.
You see patchwork.
When somebody comes, like youknow, for utility, and cuts up a
part of the street, it doesn'tsit there for six months
unattended.
Those are not failures of thosepeople that are doing it.
It's failures of our leadership, in our respect to go out in my
ward and say I need you to comeback and fix this, please, and
not wait six months before thatsmall little insert becomes a

(42:42):
big pothole.

Speaker 4 (42:43):
I'm going to put on a hard hat and go out there and
point at what's going on.
Yeah, I'm sorry, I threw youoff track.
What were we talking?

Speaker 1 (42:54):
about.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
We're listening to Between the Headlines with Zach
and David.
Catch us up, man.

Speaker 1 (42:59):
All right.
So changing gears a little bit,sure, you see what's going on
with the council right now.
You see what's going on withthe council right now.
You see what's going on withthe administration right now.
The person sitting in that seatthe Ward 6 seat right now
Jacqueline DiCicco.

(43:20):
She and Rusty Green in Ward 3are constantly on the losing end
of 4-2 votes.
Just Tuesday, councilwomanDeCicco asked Vice Mayor Mickens
a question about an expense.
He's going on a trip with MrIrby to Atlanta at some point in

(43:44):
the spring.
Originally Mr Irby was going togo by himself and now Mickens
is going.
Councilwoman DiCicco askedabout that.
He didn't respond and when themayor pressed him, do you want
to respond to that?
He just said no, so disregardedher question entirely.
So when you look at thatenvironment and you're looking

(44:08):
at going into that environment,how does your presence on the
council, in your opinion, changethe dynamic of that four to
split and how does it change thedynamic of things like what
transpired Tuesday that I justtold you about?

Speaker 5 (44:23):
Sure, well, you know, what it comes down to, in my
opinion, is that you can't faultindividuals.
You know and I'm not speakingto one specific person but you
cannot fault individuals forthings they don't necessarily
understand as well.
I saw it on the school board alot of times, because I am well
versed, and that's where I kindof stake my flag down is the

(44:44):
financial side.
I understand it well.
It's things that excite me.
You see, when I talk about it,my eyes light up in different
things.
So I'm never going to go inwith the mindset of you've just
got to do it my way because Iunderstand it better.
I've always taken more of ateacher approach to it and I
think that's what helped on theschool board years ago when
there were clashes and therewere misunderstandings and there

(45:07):
were situations that came up towhere you know I was on, you
know the to vote.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
You know things that went on for quite some time.

Speaker 5 (45:15):
It did, but the whole point is that it did not deter
the work that had to be done.
It did not stop us from reallytrying to make the difference,
because I knew in at the core ofthe situation.
People have different ways ofdoing things, but they all want
the same outcome.
They all want things to bebetter and I'm not going to sit

(45:35):
there and try to point a fingerand say you're doing it wrong
and you're doing it your way andthat's causing problems.
My resolution, conflictresolution matter is being
prepared, giving people everydetail possible so that they're
able to discern it in their ownway and ask questions, and in
doing that, that's exactly whatreally happened on the school

(45:58):
board.
People didn't necessarily likeJason Spears more, they were
just willing to give me thebenefit of the doubt at the
information, the task at hand,the jobs we had to do were
actually getting done, notbecause I was trying to take
credit for it, but because weactually had, you know, granular
, granular information that theywere able to take and put their

(46:21):
own polish to and come out witha product we were all happy
with, that we could all seeprogress with.
And that's the biggest thingfor me is that if you go in it
with just wanting to have yourstamp on it that it's yours,
you're always going to come upon the short end of the vote.

Speaker 4 (46:40):
I've got one last question from my end, from a
business standpoint, you know,looking back at the planning of
things for the city.
What are we going to do aboutthe island's most exciting motel
attraction, the Plaza Motel,right there next to the
amphitheater?
I know I talk about that thingtoo much, but good grief that

(47:02):
fellow's sitting on that thingand he's like, yeah, I'll sell
it to the city for three milliondollars and it needs to be
pushed over.
What can be done?
Nothing.

Speaker 5 (47:13):
Well, you know, when you, when you look at that, I
mean it's, you know what is itin real estate, location,
location, location, and you know, I think it goes back to the
drawing board of when things areput together in the city plans,
of how we're going to developthings.
We have to have thatcomprehensive plan of this is
the core circle, this is thenext deviation circle, tier

(47:36):
circle and how it branches outfrom there to understand where
those complications may come inin the future.
Now, I mean as far as sayingwhat's going on, what we should
do, I mean I look down at theproject at Burns Bottom.
I mean there were 70 plusproperties there and some of
those were tied up with multipleeven before I was, you know.

Speaker 4 (47:53):
I put on in 2022 with airship.

Speaker 5 (47:57):
You know complications and things.
Well, now, all these yearslater, you know all the property
has been acquired, everything'sstarting to move forward and
you kind of get into the redtape of you've got federal
dollars, you've got 106, you'vegot we had to notify you know
seven Indian nations of whatwe're doing there and you don't
see all of that a lot of times.

(48:18):
So, to go back over to whatyou're talking about, it's hard
to understand what we should doat that hotel if we haven't
finished the first core circle,build out of what we're doing.
And that's what's right here.
It may be a different dialogue.
There may be something that say, hey, somebody else comes in,
builds and buys the hotel anddoes something with it.

(48:38):
You know the city shouldn'tnecessarily have to take on all
these private properties to thenturn them into those type of
projects.
They should want thatpublic-private relationship.
That's what garners extra salestax and extra growth on the tax
base and different things.
I mean, one of the things Ihave noticed in my studies
leading up to what I'm talkingto you about and other things

(49:02):
that I've been trying to beprepared when I talk to
residents of Ward 6 is the factthe city owns a lot of property
it shouldn't own.
I mean, there are lots in Ward6 that they've owned since 1997
that people don't even know howthey got, and so I think that we
need to look at those aspectsof how we build out the city.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Can we sell them?

Speaker 5 (49:21):
I don't see why not.
They're in residentialneighborhoods and different
things over in Ward 6.
And I think they've beenforgotten about because nobody
remembers how they ended up withthem.
It wasn't just a tax sale.
It's maybe something somebodyleft to the city.
But I just go back to the pointis that we've got to get into a
more simpler form of what ourplanning needs to be, and the

(49:42):
simpler form means that we can'tget caught up in all of the
commotion of this problem withthe amphitheater, this problem
with drainage and this problemover here with Greenfield.
Those are big, tight issues thatwe need to address.
But we have a lot ofhousekeeping, you know, laundry
to fold, floors, to sweep things.

(50:07):
That we've got to do as a citycouncil and, as you know,
whoever the mayor is, to be ableto actually be effective in
those type of projects andthat's just my role is that when
I come in, I want to start withthe broom in the hand to kind
of sweep the floors a little bitand, you know, get the laundry
baskets, after they're folded,put away.
Because if we get our financialhouse in order at city hall, uh
, or the municipal complex,wherever you want to reference
it being.
If we that, then we're going tobe able to capitalize on more

(50:29):
opportunities, and thisdiscussion seems a lot different
in five years.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
You mentioned Burns Bottom and you're on the
Columbus Redevelopment AuthorityBoard.
Where is that project, what isgoing on with the interested
developer and why doesn't thepublic know more about the
process of the progress at thispoint?

Speaker 5 (50:50):
Sure, All right.
So, in full disclosure, thereare MDAs in place, so there's
limited aspects of certain partsthat I can't discuss.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Y'all had to sign non-disclosure agreements,
correct Okay.

Speaker 5 (51:01):
Just because of different parts of it, can say
is that it's all this public andI mean you can get that from
you know what's all been takingplace in our meetings is that
you know we're to a point now towhere we have acquired all the
properties and the only reasonyou don't see more dirt turning
or trees coming down and thingslike that other than just kind

(51:22):
of trying to keep it clean andmowed and all those things, is
because we have to go throughcertain processes of wetland
mitigation.
You look up there like where'sthe wetlands at?
They're there, we've beennotified.
So we have to work through that.
Also, you have to work throughother permitting issues that you
have to go because the northend of the property is more in

(51:42):
the floodplain than the southend.
It's all what happens in adevelopment.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Is that developer still at the table?

Speaker 5 (51:49):
No, Well, I mean, yes , we have people that are
interested that are still at thetable and it just goes back to
we as a, as a board, have to.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Is the developer that we that?
That came to the table lastyear.
Are they still there?

Speaker 5 (52:04):
Well as as, as parts of my non-disclosure, I can't
get into those details, but whatI?
What I can say is that you know, we are still meeting our
timelines to further thatdevelopment forward.
And here's the one thing thatit's really easy to see dirt
turn and oh, they're doingsomething.

(52:25):
But it goes back to what Istressed earlier.
I serve a great board of peopleand they're business, business
minded, they're thinkers,they're intentional in their
actions and this is kind of theway I model myself, which is why
we work so well together.
And they're very measured, andI think that style of planning

(52:46):
is what has to happen as we goforward in the city level,
because the fact is that we havechecked the box, we've actually
gone beyond what is required todo even more, so that if later
it comes back to say, oh well,why didn't you do this?
We can say we did.
We don't want to get caught insome little snag in between of a
technicality and that's why itlooks slower than it should be.

(53:09):
But this particular project isso transformative, generational
in its impact for the city ofColumbus that you want to be
that way.
You want to havewell-intentioned effort that is
centered around the fact thatyou're going to make sure that
it comes out and is doneproperly.
And the funding from the feds,the funding from the state, the

(53:31):
local funding all of that peoplecan look back on and say you
know what?
That's exactly the way itneeded to happen.
And when we go, or the CRA,whoever it is, go back to the
table the next time.
People don't doubt it's goingto happen.
They know they see you did itthe right the first time and it
leads you to the confidence todo it right the second time.

Speaker 1 (53:49):
One of the perspectives on you in the
public square and your candidacynow in Ward 6 is that you
actually you had a good andclose relationship even with the
Robert Smith administration andyour relationship with this
administration is not so much.

(54:10):
One is that fair?
And two, how would you assessyour relationships with those
two administrations?

Speaker 5 (54:16):
Sure.
Well, you know, here's the bigthing about it.
I realize that for progress tohappen you have to work with
everybody.
You have to be willing to beopen minded to everyone's ideas,
even if you feel like yours ismore well thought out and and
that you're well intentioned.
Some people don't see it thatway and you know you have to

(54:36):
understand them more than youunderstand yourself.
And so I've been willing towork and have worked with people
throughout the city, board ofsupervisors, everybody.
Because the fact is I go back tomy core belief is that
everybody in their positionswants to see a better Columbus
get better.
I mean, that's the core of itIn my mind it is.
If I take away that someoneisn't in that mindset, well, I

(55:00):
tend to distance myself becausethey have ulterior motives and I
don't get into that.
That's not how I operate.
But what I will say is that,yes, I did work well with Robert
and his administration.
I've worked well with a lot ofthe city council.
Now Some are more willing tolisten and do things.

(55:21):
I can't say one person overanother.
I'm not pointing fingers at oneperson or another, but I can
just say is that you know when Itry to lend my expertise or
lend my thoughts or differentthings like that.
It's not because I'm trying toget in somewhere, it's just
because, like when I was on theschool board, and I have to go
to sit down with somebody andsay, hey, this is how they're
going to pay off the debt, thisis the fund balances, this is

(55:42):
how the taxation works, andstuff like that.
Either they meet it with youknow what Okay, I understand it.
Can you explain it more?
Or they meet with I alreadyknow that.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Well, okay.
So how was that met by thisadministration?

Speaker 5 (55:56):
I think it'd be best if you ask them.
Ok so, all right.

(56:16):
So is it fair to say that youwere?
Is it fair to say that youcommunity, especially the
leaders, because the financialaspects is what really is the
oil running or the gasolinerunning the car?
You've got to know what thenumbers are like.
You've got to understandtaxation.
You've got to understand a lotof the things that allow you to
do the things you do.
And if you, if you, if I go,sit down with Greg Andrews often
, because he's the man who hasthe numbers and and, and I ask

(56:39):
him pointed questions tounderstand things.
The CRA asked me to compile areport of things about when we
were working for the federaldollars and state dollars, to
have a meeting and say present,all of this Spent weeks.
I have a job that supports myfamily.
None of the things that I dooutside of you know, over here
at 114, is supporting what I doother than there.

(57:03):
And so when you go and you putthis together and you're not
steering a narrative, you'rejust giving facts.
You're trying to help peopleunderstand things from a basic
level so that you can build fromit.
You shouldn't be just shut downthat.
I know that, because the thingabout it is if you, if you

(57:23):
understand those things, why areyou doing things differently?
Because, it doesn't it to me andI feel passionate about it
because I know if your householdis not in order, it's just that
, like you have problems thatbecome crisis and they don't

(57:43):
have to be.
They don't have to rise to thatlevel.
So when I talk to people whoare smarter than me, who have
more information than me, andthen I take what skill sets I
have and compile it intosomething that we can work with,
and everybody around me that'ssitting at the table making the
decisions based off thatinformation feels it sound and
we should be able to workforward with it.
To be pushed back, say, I knowthis.

(58:04):
It's disheartening because it'slike, why, like, we have to
make sure that we don't takethat mindset.
We have to make sure that wedon't take that mindset.
I am as committed to a personwho lives on the borderline of
the northern part of Ward 6 as Iam to the eastern, the western

(58:27):
and the southern tip.
It doesn't matter whatneighborhood, it doesn't matter
what street, it doesn't matterwhether you work in Columbus or
you travel to Starkville or youtravel somewhere else.
My whole thing is that I do thediligence for everybody
involved.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (58:42):
And I think that when you start looking at those
individuals who want to come outand say I'm doing it for the
right reason, we'll define rightreason now.
Is it your right reason?
Is it their right reason?
Is it their right?

Speaker 1 (58:57):
reason Okay.

Speaker 5 (58:58):
Because I believe that if you want a seat at the
table and you want to do thingsright, there's only one way to
do it, and it's with facts.
It's not opinions, it's notjudgments, it's not.
I don't want to do it becauseof this person, that person.
It's rooted in the facts.
Whether you like the facts ornot, they are what they are.

Speaker 4 (59:18):
And numbers.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
Well, to that point does the city need a forensic
audit, and why or why not?

Speaker 5 (59:25):
OK, so that seems to be the billion dollar question,
right?
You know I trust in theauditors who have been looking
through the books you have tolook at.
Right now.
We have, through 2024 last year, the 2020 and the 2021 audit
for the city completed.
Miss Holly, you know she worksdiligently.

(59:47):
I think she does a great job inher role of what she does.
Right now.
I believe they're working on2022 and possibly getting into
2023.
Right now, I believe they'reworking on 2022 and possibly
getting into 2023.
People forget that we had aperson who did the crime that
was sent to prison and then, ofcourse, I think, passed away in
prison.
If I'm not mistaken.
Ok, and then there was anindividual who came behind him,

(01:00:12):
a lady Delia.
Vaughn, yeah, it was there fora short period of time and then
we had about six months to whereyou had, you know, some people
who were plugging in and tryingto help do things, interims and
different volunteers.
Right, but no one thereshoveling the coal in the engine
, no one there steering thetrain down the track, and so
things got very disorganized andchaotic, and so that's why,

(01:00:36):
right now, we don't have the2022 audit.
It's because you've got thisabyss of nobody really was there
getting it done.
Now you can point fingers andyou can cast blame, but it's
still.
The fact is that that was thereality for that year, and until
we get that whole patched upand accounted for, you can't

(01:00:57):
really say what the next step isgoing to look like.
When you stress we need aforensic audit and different
things, what are you asking for?
Are you just asking for theguillotine to drop and the heads
to roll, or are you looking atit?
For we really need to know whatthe numbers are so we know if
we have a million dollars to putin the amphitheater.

Speaker 4 (01:01:14):
Maybe both Okay, define know what the numbers are
.

Speaker 5 (01:01:16):
So we know if we have a million dollars to put in the
amphitheater, maybe both okaydefine what you mean, maybe both
.

Speaker 4 (01:01:19):
If there's bad actors , let the heads roll and also
get the finances in order sothat we'll be eligible for these
grants that we so badly needwell, we're eligible for the.

Speaker 5 (01:01:28):
We wouldn't be eligible for the grants because
we don't have the 22 and the 23.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
that's the annual audit's the annual audit, the
annual audit's being current.

Speaker 5 (01:01:35):
Now here's the thing you know, like Shad White, don't
like Shad White, I think he's avery thorough person at his job
and when things were uncoveredand things were sent down to his
office to be investigated, theycame in and, in my opinion
being the thoroughness that Ihave seen him put out there on

(01:01:56):
different things, he wentthrough and he did what he did
and he also nobody has anyoneasked what our auditors that are
doing, what they have alreadydone, what they have gone
through.
I think that's another part ofit.
So to sit here and say I'mopposed to a forensic audit or
I'm in support of it.

(01:02:19):
I think we need to let all thework be done and get current and
then see if there's anything asfar as missteps or things,
because they will come to light.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
All right.
Last question I have for you.
It's on a lighthearted note,although it may open up an old
wound a little bit.
Okay, so you're at exchange.
Not too long ago you make ajoke.
I know it's a joke, but I'mrazzing you about it.
You said that you know if youwrite numbers down, the only
person that could be sure isMoses coming down off the
mountain.

(01:02:51):
Some years ago, a formersuperintendent, who will remain
anonymous here after beingterminated by the board,
specifically referred to you asthe Incredible Hulk.
So, between Moses and theIncredible Hulk, who are you
really, jason?

Speaker 5 (01:03:11):
Well, I'm a dad, I'm a husband, I'm a financial
advisor who serves his clientsas well as I possibly can.
I've served this community forgoing on 20 years now.
I love Columbus.
I hear all the negative thingsabout it, but that doesn't deter
me from getting out there andplugging in where I can.
You know when you ask who.

(01:03:32):
Who am I?
You know I I'm kind of anintrovert.
That's probably why I enjoynumbers so much.
They don't ask a lot ofquestions.
They are what they are and Ihave to do my calculations to
see where they total up to.
But but I would just say isthat you know my heart is always
in the right place ineverything that I do.
I don't try to do it for thecredit While sometimes I do get

(01:03:54):
credit, sometimes I get blame.
I do.
I stick with the things that Iknow can be verified.
I stick with the things thatare essential to the question
and not fodder for thediscussion.
And that's my biggest thing isI think that if we stop looking

(01:04:14):
at Lowndes County as being ourenemy of Columbus and we start
realizing who wants that tocontinue to happen, it's across
the county line, over inOctopahaw County and Starkville.
I'm not blaming anybody why weneed to do better in our
financial way of doing things ifwe want to do better on how

(01:04:35):
leadership happens at City Hall.
We've got to decide is thatwe've got to be united ourselves
because North Port Tuscaloosaare taking residents, they're
taking businesses.
Tupelo-lee County wants to seethis continue to happen.

(01:04:55):
I'm not anti-reaching out,because I've got a lot of
partnerships that I work withpeople on all throughout and
different things.
I'm not saying that they'redoing things bad, but we're
allowing our successes to fleetaway from us because the fact is
that we're unwilling to justaddress right here in the
household and say you know, inmy household I raised three boys
.
They love each otherunconditionally, but sometimes
there's a lot of pain involvedbecause there's bruises involved
.
Okay, especially with boys,with boys, that's right, but the

(01:05:19):
biggest thing about that isthat they realize that nobody
else comes to them and talksabout this other brother.
All right, okay, we have to bewilling to put past issues
behind us and not forget them,not forget that bruise that's on
our arm or leg or whatever.
But we have to be willing to sayyou know what?

(01:05:39):
Let's just try a little bitmore discussion.
Let's try to get the sheriff'sdepartment, let's try to get the
police department, let's try toget Metro Narcotics talking a
little bit more, training alittle bit more together.
Let's try to unify what thecity government, the county
government is doing and you know, and I've said this before I

(01:06:00):
said it's the Kiwanis Club.
You know Columbus needs to quitasking and begging the county
for a lot of things.
We need to put our own boots onand stand up, like we need to
get our own house in order.
That gives them the confidenceto want to come to the table for
the next TIF agreement or forthe next big project that
benefits the county the county,the city and the CVB and
everything.

Speaker 4 (01:06:17):
Okay, well, Jason, it has been a pleasure to have you
on the show today and I will beseeing you Monday as the
Republican Party of LowndesCounty will be live streaming a
forum for both of the Republicancandidates of Ward 6.
That'll be a lot of fun.
Looking forward to it Absolutely, and I want to thank our
listeners for joining in.
Please help talk this, show up,subscribe, rate and share, and

(01:06:41):
I hope you'll also join theconversation.
Tips at cdispatchcom.
Again, that is tips atcdispatchcom.
Also follow me on Facebook or Xat the Chisholm 00.
You've been listening toBetween the Headlines, with Zach
and David signing off fromCatfish Alley Studios in
historic downtown Columbus.
Your host has been the gentlegiant, mr Zach Clare, who is

(01:07:06):
also the managing editor of theCommercial Dispatch, and I am
David Chisholm.
Until next time, keep itfriendly, but absolutely keep it
real no-transcript.