July 11, 2025 • 45 mins
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Columbus City Attorney Jeff Turnage joins us to discuss the overwhelming public support for keeping MSMS at MUW, revealing 185 public comments sent to Mississippi Department of Education, favoring the school's current location versus only three supporting relocation to MSU. MSU's response through spokesperson Sid Salter has stoked the controversy, leading to a discussion about the roles people are playing in this issue.
• The public feedback on MSMS's future was made public through an open records request filed by Turnage. Those records can be reviewed at the bottom of the Dispatch article here.
• Three main concerns emerged: cost differences, potential loss of MSMS identity, and campus safety
• MSU's Sid Salter dismissed public comments as "an organized effort to generate appearance of support"
• W President Nora Miller has taken a stronger stance on keeping MSMS at her institution. Zack and David agree she should continue to mobilize MUW alumni.
• Turnage says the legislature, not the State Board of Education, will make the final decision, and they are subject to public pressure.
Also:
• Columbus City Council discusses a new data-driven approach to road maintenance
• The price for residential trash pickup in Columbus is increasing. Will residents have to pay more?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:37):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Today on Between the Headlines, we are pleased to
have City Attorney Jeff Turnage,who has in his hands a stack of
emails overwhelmingly in favorof leaving MSMS right where it
is.
Sid Salter has words about that, and so do we Also.
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(01:05):
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You are listening to Betweenthe Headlines and today we are
(02:39):
pleased to have City Attorney MrJeff Turnage in our midst and
he's going to join us for thisdiscussion that we have.
Welcome to the program, sir.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Thank you, you're looking well today.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I'm surprised you decided to come on here and be
among the riffraff of Columbus,as we talk about it.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I actually enjoyed listening to your podcast.
I didn't know what I wouldthink of it when it first
started, but I admire thedispatch for putting this on.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I think you're getting a lot of public support,
and people that may notnecessarily want to sit and read
a paper are listening to this,and I think it's a good thing,
so I appreciate the invitationto be here.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, I'd like to jump right in here and just kind
of what we're talking abouttoday.
You were the one who put in thepublic records request to get
the public input on theproposals for MSMS.
The W put out a proposal andMSU put out a proposal to host
MSMS.
You got the public input fromthat.
(03:40):
You've been a very strongpublic advocate for MSMS and
keeping MSMS here since well,since the debate of relocation
started, but really even youwere supportive of the school
well before that.
What's your involvement withthe school?
What's the reason that you'rereally out front supporting MSMS
?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
You know, I'll start out by saying I would have never
been considered for acceptanceat MSMS.
I sent some money over there totheir entrepreneurial program.
I heard about it and they askedme would I consider supporting
that contest they had andcoaching some of their
(04:21):
entrepreneurial kids?
And I agreed to do that, andbefore long now I'm sucked in.
They want me to come down thereand present the award at the
end of it, and what I told themis I'm not like you all.
I graduated at the top of thebottom third of my high school,
and that's the truth.
Anyway, my dad and mom werereally smart.
(04:46):
My dad graduated from highschool valedictorian in Grenada
and went to Annapolis, and mymother graduated from the W and
then went on to Peabody and hadher master's in art, and I was
taught to use proper grammarfrom the time I could start
talking.
I hear you, I'm not a scientist, not a mathematician, but I
(05:07):
really think a lot of the school.
I think it was the best, one ofthe best moves the
legislature's ever made, and soI've supported it because it
needs the support.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
That's it, basically well, when you, when you uh got
that public feedback, it waspretty obvious that it was very,
very one-sided, even if youweren't counting it out.
But the count out was 185 to 3pro-MUW, or pro-keeping it in
MUW.
I mean, were you surprised bythat?
(05:36):
What did that say to?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
you.
Yes, I was surprised that itwas that lopsided, but, as I
heard on this podcast and otherplaces, the fix was in.
They already knew what theywere going to do.
I believe that, and I thinkthey crammed the proposal
process into just a small window, assuming they give people not
(06:00):
enough time to respond and thenthey got an overwhelming
response in favor, so they justignored it.
I thought that there would bemore support for keeping it here
, because it's just so much morelogical, but I didn't expect it
to be like this.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, I mean there's 185 people in five days.
That's a lot.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I was really suspicious of the whole process
and that's why I sent the publicrecord request in.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And there were only three eyesayers, right, only
three.
And you had a handful of peoplethat were like this whole
process is stupid, you need tojust start over, right?
And then 183 people.
You just need to leave thething alone, and then three
little old people.
Three little old people takingthe politician's side on this.
(06:44):
What does that say to you?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well, it seems rather compelling to me, the public,
the sentiment of the people thathave knowledge about it, and
these are not just random people.
The vast majority were eitherpeople that have lived in both
places or gone to school atState and MSMS People that have
lived in both places or gone toschool at State and MSMS.
There's students there, thereare graduates of there, there
(07:10):
are alumni of there, parents ofthere, and they're all saying
don't mess with it because it'sworking so well.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And they all gave the same four or five basic
arguments over and over and overagain, uniquely phrased in
their own way.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
It wasn't any sort of canned responses at least the
way I read them, It'd be onething to think, well, this was
some sort of organized thing,but it wasn't that at all,
because some of them were threepages long, some were two
sentences long.
Some said if it ain't broke,don't fix it.
Others had 40 reasons why toleave it.
(07:43):
So I just think it was peoplethat were aware that wanted to
express their concern.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
But the prevailing themes were cost difference,
obviously, the identity of theschool and how that would be
affected by any affiliation withSFCSD, and I'm trying to
remember the third one that wasintermingling the kids with an
SEC campus.
(08:09):
Yeah, the safety issue was thethird one.
That was really those threereally stuck out in just about
every response in some way oranother.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Let me ask you this Am I crazy, or did the
revelation of these emails putNora Miller into beast mode,
like she has come alive sincethis stuff has come out?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, I'm glad to hear that it put me in beast
mode a bit when I read andreread it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
and read it the third time.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
He didn't really write that out.
Scratch his chin.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I want to talk about that.
Yeah, you were talking abouthow this looked.
Organic to you, seemed organicto me too.
Mr Salters' response at MSUseems to disagree with that.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Oh boy, yeah, I don't know.
I thought isn't he a PR guy?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Sid Salter is the vice president of strategic
communication and very strategiccommunication director of the
office of public affairs at msuso sid salter.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They might need to take a continuing ed from his
lofty balcony, his palace overthere in starkville, he looks
over to the east, toward us,toward the parents of MSMS kids,
and he sticks a big, fat middlefinger and he says you know
what?
What you have to say doesn'tmatter, we know better than thee
(09:36):
.
All right, here's the words.
All right, hear that soundright there.
That's the dispatch.
Just so you know.
This is not the Babylon Bee,this is not the onion.
Here we go.
He says, quote there is nothingremotely scientific about this
input that reflects an accuratemeasure of perfect of public
(09:57):
opinion.
It appears to be the result ofan organized effort to generate
the appearance of public support.
End quote.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
You slipped into a little British there.
I think that Sid is fromcentral Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I don't care.
This is the same guy.
Are you sure he's advocatingfor higher gas taxes?
This is the same guy thatsmokes a cigarette on a stick,
like Cruella DeVille.
He says you people can go situp in the 300 section of davis
wade stadium.
You can eat your stale nachos,you can drink diet pepsi.
(10:33):
You people of columbus, youplanters of odd foliage, he
knows what's best for our ladsand lasses.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, I'm interested in, Jeff, your take on Sid's
words.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I'm going to give him credit for being right about
one thing it really did createthe appearance of public support
for leaving it here.
But you can subtract everythingelse out and put that in the BS
column, because I mean, it gotworse.
You read just the good part.
(11:09):
I mean, at first of all hethought it was some sort of
orchestrated thing.
I don't believe that you readthe emails and they came from.
Here's one.
Here's one from a woman livingdown in Jackson, adeola Abadili.
I don't know what, but shegraduated from Athens High
School in 07, went toMississippi State, graduated in
(11:31):
12, went to Vanderbilt in 15, isa chemical and biomolecular
engineer.
She's a smart lady and sheconcludes by saying it's a
top-tier high school thatgarners state and national
attention year after year, andgoes on.
I won't bore anybody that wantsto find them.
(11:52):
I assume with a dispatch linkwhere people can read them.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, it's already up .
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Okay, we're going to post the link on the teaser on
the link to this.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
We're going to make access to these emails readily
available.
Well, I interviewed Nora Milleronce I got my hands on these,
looked through them, was talkingto her about them.
First of all, she bowed up alittle more than she has in the
past with her statements, muchmore definitive than maybe she
had been before, much moreforceful.
(12:25):
But one thing that she saidthat I thought, or two things
that she said that stuck out tome.
One if you look at MSU'sproposal, it's all about SOCSD
and MSU.
It's not really about MSMS atall.
And the second thing she saidwas, while she was surprised
somewhat that there was solittle pro-MSU public input in
(12:47):
this process that she thought itshowed a lack of energy and a
lack of interest, she wasn'tsure that Starkville cared
whether it came over there ornot.
Is that your takeaway there?
Speaker 4 (13:01):
No, that's not my takeaway.
I think they're aiming to getit takeaway there.
No, that's not my takeaway.
I think they're aiming to getit.
And if you listen to at leastthe rumors about Rob Robertson,
he thinks it's a done dealalready and then people need to
just get ready for it to happen.
I got news for that fella.
I hope the news is what I hopeit is.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, how does?
Ok, so I want to.
I want to back up here.
I want to talk about the sortof the public effort to rally
around MSMS and the leadershipof it from the W up until this
point.
So I want to start there.
How do you think that's going?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I don't really want to criticize the W or Nora
Miller, but I think they shouldhave come out a little more
aggressively rather than saywell, if we lose it, we'll make
another plan, because that's notthe right strategy.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, that's the thing, not the way I get it when
I'm arguing with somebody, eventhough I'm in an argument.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
There's no plan B, Like if this is going to be the
way, we're going to go this wayand you need to catch on, Not,
we might go this way, but if wedon't go this way, there's this
other way.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
That's kind of the way I heard it and I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That's kind of the way I heard it and I don't know
Well now.
So what needs to happen now andhow effective can the W, can
Columbus, can the 185 people whowrote in?
How effective can they still bein this argument, or do you
feel like it's going down in ablaze of glory at this point?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
You mean, do I think that the deal is done have?
There's nothing else we can doabout it, so we should we just
give up?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
well, no, I mean, obviously you don't think you
should give up, or you wouldn'tbe going through, uh, through
this effort.
But what?
How can this be leveraged?
How can this be harnessed toactually stop the relocation, if
, if?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
well, you asked me that.
I think the answer is the stateboard of education has no
authority to do it at all.
So the answer is with thelegislature.
And uh, I started I don't know.
Back in may I wrote everymember of the house and senate
Education Committee a longletter and attached articles
(15:27):
from the dispatch.
Ninety-three percent ofstudents surveyed at MSMS favor
leaving it there.
Weinstein wins the historystate wrestling state
championship.
Another kid won a tennischampionship and they won a
science competition.
(15:47):
I think we just have to sell itto the legislature.
Why would we only take all thismoney, give it to Starkville to
build a school?
You're not giving money toevery other place in the state
to build a school?
And why would you uproot what'sworking to conduct an
experiment, whether it wouldwork over there or not, at a
(16:07):
hundred million dollar price tag?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
what do you think that the pr firm that they're
dude I I see this thing clippinga quarter of a billion before
it's over.
I do.
Have you seen where they're?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
gonna put it.
The figures they quoted been 80something million.
So I'm rounding it up to 100.
Yeah, 100.
If you want to make it abillion, whatever works, I guess
.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Well, what do you think about the PR firm that
County City's throwing in forMUW Foundation?
Do you think that that effortto make it more of a statewide
conversation is going to behelpful?
Do you think it can move theneedle?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, I think so.
If you know, a lot of peoplesay lobbyists and PR firms are
ineffectual.
I don't think that's true.
If I go down there to Jacksonand knock on the door, I
probably will be denied entry ifthey don't know who I am or I
didn't give to their campaign.
So I think it'll be helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, let me back up and ask you this, trying to look
at it from the otherperspective Do you feel like
Mississippi State Universitycould and would be stewards in
good faith to that school.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
I think they in good faith hope that those students,
if they go to school there atMSMS at state will ultimately
enroll at MSU for college andthen that will ultimately
benefit MSU.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Hook and sinker.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I think that it's secondary to the interest of the
students, but I could be wrongon that.
I'm just, you know, I'm justaggravated at the whole idea of
it, when you know here we areneighbors basically trying to
pick at each other and it'sworking so well.
(18:01):
Why are you going to do that?
And it's working so well.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Why are you going to do that?
Well, how integral do you thinkMSMS being here is to the
future of MUW as a whole and itsidentity?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
I'm worried a lot about it.
As I understand it, there arenot enough students to keep the
cafeteria open, for example, ifyou don't have MSMS.
So if that's true and I don'tknow if it is or not but if
that's true and they close thecafeteria and you're an MUW
on-campus student, that's not asappealing as if you have a
(18:35):
cafeteria, for example.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, for example, that bill that came out a couple
of sessions ago that at firstwas going to relocate MSMS to
MSU and then it was amended toput MUW under the MSU banner.
Do you think that's coming?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
No, I don't think Starkville MSU wants the W.
I could be wrong on that too.
I guess they've studied it.
They came up with a name for it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't know, I can't imagine why they would want it.
You know They've got plenty tomanage and it's all fun and
games, in my opinion, until theystart messing with our kids and
they start infringing upon ourinterests here.
To me, I feel disrespected bythe whole process.
(19:28):
It's almost like well, I'll putit to you this way the good
people of Columbus foundedMississippi Agricultural and
Mechanical College way back inthe day.
We sent them their firstpresident, lest they forget.
And here we are, in the year2025.
I will tell you, jeff, I don'tthink it's a done deal at all,
(19:50):
because if you look at thoseemails and you see what kind of
support is behind keeping ithere, I don't see how the
politicians are going to buyinto this.
It is a boondoggle.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
You could be right.
The other thing is, accordingto this letter and I know it's
true because I've talked to someof the MSMS kids when I coached
that entrepreneurial contestMSMS already has a relationship
with MSU doing adjunct researchover there, so that program can
(20:24):
exist without it having to beuprooted.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, what do the letter writers, people of
Columbus, people who want tokeep this, what do they do?
Now, in your mind, if you wereleading the charge, where are
you taking them?
What are you telling them to do?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I don't know.
I have not written to all theHouse and Senate members in the
universities and colleges, sothat may be another task.
I don't know that they readtheir letters because I've only
gotten one response to all ofthe letters I've written.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Who responded?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
I think it was Senator DuBois, his vice
chairman.
He said he's for leaving itwhere it is.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
DuBois.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I believe I'm right on that.
I'll have to go back and check.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I want to see that Because I thought he was one of
the guys trying to turn thisinto a hobby horse I may have
the name wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It's been weeks and weeks.
He's the chair of thatcommittee.
He's the vice chair.
That sent me back.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So that would be interesting if the chairman and
the vice chairman disagree.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So tell me about this .
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I don't know if you want to go into this, but tell
me about this second part ofyour public records request that
you're still waiting for.
Well, I figured the publiccomment would be one thing, but
I was interested in who theboard members might have been
emailing back and forth withabout this, so I asked for all
their emails between them andthemselves and them and anybody
else about MSMS for the lastthree years and text messages.
(22:06):
And then I got a quote for $756.
So I mailed them a check.
Okay, waiting to see what comes.
Good grief, I predict probablyvery little.
They will spend all that timelooking for it but they won't
find anything.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's a shame you can't send a public records
request for their signal account.
You know those under the tablekind of messages, because those
are the ones I'm worried about.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah, well, they probably don't record their
conversation, so we won't beable to know what that is.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
They probably got into a glass chamber to talk
about this deal.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Well, is there anything you want to add, Jeff?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Nope, I think that's more than I probably should have
said.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Well, we really appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I do, and I appreciate your, your role as
the city attorney.
I know we didn't talk aboutthis episode.
You probably don't want to.
I do have one question aboutthat All right, go ahead.
He's giving me the look.
Has there ever been a meetingwhere you left that meeting and
you're just like man, I need togo get hammered Probably more
(23:16):
than one, and I don't think anyof them would be mad at me for
saying it we appreciate youcoming on the program.
Ladies and gentlemen, you'vebeen listening to between the
headlines with our special guesttoday, city attorney mr jeff
turnage, appreciate y'all haveme now.
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Holy cow, dude, I felt like Iwas in the presence of, like,
(24:48):
maybe, teddy Roosevelt, like hespoke very, very softly, but
that stick was amazing.
He was wielding Lucille off ofthe Walking Dead.
And I'm telling you somethingthose emails are really going to
hurt the political cause ofthose who are pushing to get
this thing dug up and moved overthere.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You know there's nothing more fickle than a
nervous legislator, and if theyget enough of them that don't
want to hear this anymore,they'll drop it.
That's where Norm Miller comesin.
That's where the W alumni comesin.
The W alumni are notorious forI mean historically notorious,
(25:30):
and legislators have told methis since I've come to Columbus
is the last person that youwant to look out your window and
see is a line of W alumnicoming to complain to you about
something.
And I had one legislator toldme I literally hid behind my
desk one time when that happened.
So I bet that group needs to beleveraged.
(25:54):
They need to be leveraged now.
And I think I mean and NoraMiller's the one to do it and
let me tell you something I havebeen, I've been critical and I
think rightfully so of sort ofthe tepid, almost noncommittal
nature of her stance on MSMS,the paper from a couple of days
(26:24):
ago about this issue with thepublic input.
She really turned the page onthat and came out swinging a
little harder than she has inthe past, and I think that she
takes that mindset to the alumni, mobilizes them, lets them know
hey, we've got an existentialcrisis on campus to the W.
We cannot lose MSMS.
Let's go keep it.
(26:45):
Well, I have a feeling thatthat's the best bullet Columbus
still has.
That's the best that Columbusstill has to keep the fix from
being in here, and I think thatit could be effective.
And I think that those 185letters yeah, and.
I think that it could beeffective and I think that those
185 letters show how effectivethat a good, solid, linear
(27:06):
argument could have in this.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, those emails are enough to scare anybody who
is wanting to be a politicalboogeyman.
In this ordeal OK, you look atit, man.
In this ordeal Okay you look atit We've got the city of
Columbus, having given$15,000-ish, likewise with
Lowndes County, and so you'vegot this PR stuff.
They're going to be stirring upthe alumni too all over the
state of.
Mississippi.
So I do not think for onesecond that Columbus is going to
go quietly in the night.
(27:40):
And I was just sitting here Iwas looking at Jeff and he had
all these emails and he was justvery gently and quietly peeling
through them.
I'm like man, that's powerfulstuff.
And I'm more optimistic and Ithink Sid Salter needs to keep
running his mouth because he isgoing to set people's hair on
(28:00):
fire.
That holier than thou, mightierthan you are, kind of attitude
I love it.
Just keep that coming.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
look I I understand why you feel that way.
Um I, I and I don't intend tomake you mad when I say this,
david I am going to defend hisposition a little bit here, not
because I agree with it, butbecause I mean David, given who
he is on the game board here,what was he supposed to say?
(28:32):
I?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
understand.
He's got a job to do and he'sdoing the job.
He's doing whatever Mark Keenumtells him to do.
I get that, that's what he'ssupposed to do, but I think he
needs to stand on principle here.
I think he needs to look atthis for what it is what do you
think?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
his principles are, though?
He believes in his university,and he believes that his
university is the best home forMSMS.
So, hell yeah, he's going tosay that, but why?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
is he going to?
Send you an is what he believeswe're such a great university,
we're going to go over toColumbus and gobble up their
stuff too.
I'm telling you, dude, theyneed to mind their own business.
I'm right there on the edge ofwanting to sell my tickets, Zach
.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Well, that's up to you.
I don't want to renew I probablywill, but I just don't know I'm
a Razorback fan so I don't havetickets there, but I don't, ok.
So one thing that I think hasbeen a weakness of the Columbus
community fervor in thisargument is being kind of borne
(29:32):
out right here, and I understandwhy somebody from Columbus
would get offended by hisstatements because they do not
see it the way that he sees itand I don't.
I believe that MSMS should stayhere.
I'm on the record saying thatand I believe that.
But I think a weakness in theColumbus fervor on this and
Lowndes County fervor on this isthere hasn't been enough
(29:53):
recognition of who everybody ison the board and what they're
supposed to be doing.
And I think that there's a lotof feelings hurt at MSU.
I think there's a lot offeelings hurt at Starkville and
because, very close to the issue, very MSMS is here.
That's a community identitything.
(30:14):
Starkville doesn't see it thatway, msu doesn't see it that way
.
They do not see themselves thatway.
They do not see themselves asthe villain, they see themselves
as somebody, that of entitiesthat are trying to enhance the
educational value of msms orsocsd.
Now that's.
That's a weird thing.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
But um, ain't it though.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Um, it's a weird thing but you can't come at
somebody expecting them to bewhere you want them to be, like
I expect.
I want to hit you.
I want to hit you right hereand I don't expect you to duck.
Well, of course they're gonnaduck and of course they're gonna
be where they're supposed to be.
On the game board, sid salteris going to advocate for
(30:56):
mississippi state university.
That's what he gets paid to doand more than that, he believes
it.
And why wouldn't he?
Why wouldn't he believe it?
For the same reason that thepeople who believe in the W
believe in the W, the samereason that people who believe
in Columbus and Lowndes Countybelieve in Columbus and Lowndes
County, because that's theirpeople, that's their institution
(31:19):
.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So to summarize what you're saying my tax dollars are
paying for both of theseinstitutions to fight each other
.
Well, well spent, well spent.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I'm just saying that I don't know, like, why anybody
is surprised at that response,because what else was he going
to say?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
He could have just minded his business and not sent
you an email.
You know, I'll get back to youon that.
I'll get back to you on that,Zach.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
I want to.
I want to just say that thefact that he bellied up and
commented on questions that hedid not want to answer, I do
respect him for that.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
He's got a pair.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
As I respect Jeff Tarnage when he's done it, as as
I respect Jeff Tarnage whenhe's done it, as I respect
anybody when they do it.
So I like comments better thanno comments 100% of the time.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
All right, you are listening to Between the
Headlines, with Zach and a veryfired up David today.
Let's move along, shall we?
Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
no-transcript.
During the work session in thecity council today, kevin
Stafford presented a proposalkind of a nifty deal where he
and they didn't vote on it today, it was just a work session
Presented a proposal from acompany that would essentially
run a souped-up van with a bunchof instruments down all of the
(33:01):
city, maintained streets, fancy.
While they're driving downthere it would pick up all of
the data that they would needfor road condition.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
That's going to make people nervous if they see that
coming by their house.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, probably so, but I don't guess it would be
here long.
I don't guess it would take tooterribly long to do it.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
This is something that they used to have to take a
man out there to do by hand,and it's not.
That's not nearly as efficientas this.
So I guess it'll like scan thepavement to see if it's got
empty places underneath it andsee if this road's getting ready
.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, rough spots, the integrity of the road, you
know the condition of thepavement, all of that, and then
the size of the road and thosetypes of things, and then you
know the back end of that.
Then, neal Schaefer, if thecity council goes with this and
lets this data be taken this way, then the city would have that
data.
(33:52):
Kevin and Stafford and NealSchaefer could bring out a
variety of plans with us, like,okay, if we want to do, a
variety of plans with us like,okay, if we want to, uh, if, if
we want to do, if we want tobring all of our roads to an a
or b grade in the next 10 years,how much would that cost and
how could we do it?
Or what could we do with themoney that we know that we have
from the internet, use tax, over10 years, over 15 years, um,
(34:17):
different scenarios that theycould draw up, and then they
could base that on priority andneed of a road.
Now, how is that?
How that's different from whatthey've done before is they've
pulled maybe one or two highpriority roads off the top and
then 60, 70 percent of the moneythat they have to do paving
work is divided equally by ward,where the council person
(34:41):
themselves has discretion onwhat gets paved and what doesn't
.
Mr Jones, in talking about thisissue today, said I hope that if
we do this and we get this data, it takes the human hand out of
it and maybe we can get to apoint to where we're not
fighting over road money andwe're saying this is our road
(35:03):
plan.
These are the priorities thatwe've put together based on the
data and this is what we'regoing to do, and I like that
better than what's been going on, because what's been going on
is inherently political, whetherthe council members want it to
be or not.
When you say to uh a councilman, here's uh, eight hundred
(35:31):
thousand dollars.
Right, here's your list ofroads and the condition that
they're in, pick which ones youwant to pave, that's going to be
political on some level even ifyou're trying to do it in the
best faith possible.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It's still going to be political.
It's not only political, butyou're asking reasonably smart
people to talk about thingsthey're not really trained in.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
OK, not all streets cost the same to resurface.
Not all aggregates are the same.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Some are wider, some are hillier, and Kevin does a
good job arming them with thatinformation to the best of his
ability.
But this would be way better.
It would be way more objective,and I hope in the end, that not
only that they go for thisstreet assessment, but that they
will operate in a data-drivenway, moving forward.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, and it'll also give the people on Vanessa
Poteet's Facebook page.
You know, they can gripe at themachine, right?
They can gripe at the policy orthe data.
That's right.
You know they're not going tograb Ethel Stewart by the hair
and sling her around and saylook, this is that pothole's
13th birthday party.
(36:44):
Yeah, I'm tired of hearingabout all that.
Sounds like a good thing.
I hope Stephen Jones does wellwith this.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, I hope that they go with that and I hope the
council will back that approachall the way through through In
less pleasant news.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
it looks like waste services are about to go up 84
cents per month per customer.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Is that what it's looking like?
That's what it's looking like.
The Golden Triangle WasteServices, who had to buy a bunch
of trucks last couple of yearsto replace a fleet that was
falling apart, is now startingto charge its member entities
that's going to be LowndesCounty, columbus, octavio, hall
County, various entities fromacross the region A little bit
(37:31):
more per household customergoing to charge those entities.
That.
The entities now have a choice,that the entities now have a
choice.
City of Columbus has a choiceto eat that 84 cents, which
would, over a year's time, equalabout $100,000 in Columbus's
(37:52):
case.
Eat that in whole or in part,or pass it in whole or in part
to the customer, and that's whatthey're debating, right now, I
don't see any benefit of thecity eating any of that 84 cents
, because money is money ismoney.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
The taxpayers are going to have to cough it up one
way or the other, and if thecity eats it up, you don't see
where it's going, whereas ifit's 84 cents added to your bill
even though that's not pleasantat least you know what that
money's going toward, right?
Yeah, when your trash does getpicked up.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I think Rusty Green has been the major proponent for
the city eating the $100,000.
And his rationale, which Iunderstand, is back when Golden
Triangle Waste Services went upon them before and it was a
considerable amount more thatthey went up on them before they
also cut their service in half.
In the city they were gettingtwice a week pickup.
(38:41):
Now they're getting once a weekpickup and they're paying more
for it.
And you know that sandpaperedRusty pretty good and now
they're coming to raise the rateagain and Rusty's trying to
think about the customers hereand honestly I don't think that
the council is unsympathetic tothat argument.
They had very thoughtfuldiscussion about that today,
(39:05):
about the practicality of it,and one thing that the mayor is
kind of leaning toward is acompromise where they see how
much they can absorb practicallyand then they pass the rest of
it on and then that way they'renot asking, the city's not
having to eat the whole appleand neither is the customer, and
(39:25):
that may be the right approach.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
I don't know Well, I mean, the customer has to eat
the apple one way or the other,regardless of whose mouth
actually bites into it.
I'm sitting here looking atthis and thinking that the city
of Columbusumbus is treating thesymptom rather than the problem
.
I think the city of columbushas a responsibility to find a
way to break up the monopoly.
(39:47):
Okay, there are other optionsout there.
They may not be practical rightnow, but we've got to be
looking to the future and wecan't be relying upon golden
triangle waste services well,with two years ago they they
requested proposals from fromanybody who would submit one and
those proposals.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
The best, highest value proposal was was golden
triangle waste services for thecustomer.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Well, good, but but the same thing with the uh, the
pavement.
Okay, um, nobody wants to beout in the sun building roads or
repairing roads in the heat orin the rain, snow, whatever, and
not making really good moneyoff of it.
I get that, but it's an ungodlyamount of money that gets
(40:34):
poured into these services andwe've got to be more creative.
We need to go out there to thecommunity and say, hey, kid, you
need to rent you this piece ofequipment and and you come over
here, you fill these holes.
You fill these holes to thisspecification.
We'll pay you good money and itwon't be nowhere X, y, z
(40:58):
contractor and actually savemoney as opposed to figuring out
well, how are we going to, howare we going to pay it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Well, on the waste services deal, lowndes County
was a little less short sightedon it two years ago, because
when waste services goes up onone entity, they, they go up on
all of their entities, entitythey go up on all of their
entities.
When they went up in 2023,lowndes County went up $3 on
(41:27):
their customers.
Their customers were paying $12.
They went up $3 on theircustomers right then.
And then when they came up withtheir more nominal increase
this time, they had thatbuilt-in flexibility to where
the county can eat it, becausethey went ahead and said okay we
kind of see where this is going.
So we're going to go ahead andstart charging this amount, get
(41:50):
everybody used to it, get thecounty used to it.
And then the other increase,the other incremental increases
that may happen over thecontract term, which is five
years from goes through 28,.
We'll absorb it and so that washow they did it and the city is
in a place where they arereacting to it, increase by
(42:11):
increase.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Well, zach, I just think we've got to be smart with
the contracts.
I mean, you think about it ifthey're allowed to bump up the
rate in their contract?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And they are On the anniversary of the contract.
They're probably going to do it.
They can bump it up every yearthrough 28.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And you know I'm just thankful to have garbage
services.
Okay, I lived outside ofNashville in a place that did
not have those services.
You had to take your trash to afacility to dump it off and it
was absolutely awful and I'lltell you it sounds terrible.
It was terrible, and a lot ofrednecks up there were burning
(42:46):
their garbage.
They just they didn't want togo and put a hole in their tire
driving up to that stinkymachine, and so I'm just
thankful to have garbageservices.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Well, and to that point, I was talking to somebody
not too long ago that wastalking about the importance of
local politics and local news asopposed to, you know, the
national and the state levelstuff, which is all important.
But I was talking to the person.
I was like you know, all newsis local and all politics is
(43:18):
local.
And if you don't believe me,wait till they don't come get
your trash once, and then you'llunderstand.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's right, because not only will it pile up in
your yard, it'll pile up in yourneighbor's yard and it'll pile
up in the streets and in thegutters and then it'll cause
flooding.
And I'm not even going to gointo all that stuff again.
Hey, this has been a goodepisode, yeah yeah.
Enjoyed it.
Yeah, you've been listening toBetween the Headlines with Zach
and David, david with the RedBull in hand.
(43:47):
I'm exhausted talking aboutthis MSMF, but at the same time,
I'm not even started yet.
I can't wait to see whatbecomes of all this and I think,
the powers that be here uh,nora miller being included in
that.
I think we are well poised andI think it's going to be a
battle to the teeth man.
It's going to be boom.
(44:09):
What say you?
Speaker 1 (44:11):
well, um, I don't know.
I mean, it's going to depend onum how those resources are
leveraged.
But I will say that, in thesame spirit that we got Rob
Robertson on, I think we oughtto invite Sid.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Sid.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
We may have to tie you to your chair if we do it.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Be careful how you play with your toys, Sid.
Your toys see everything.
I think we need to close theepisode.
Listen.
We welcome your comments.
Please send them in Tips atcdispatchcom.
Again, that is tips atcdispatchcom.
Like us, share us, rate us.
(44:58):
You can also follow me onFacebook or X at Dee Chisholm 00
.
Until next week, we're signingoff from Catfish Alley Studios
here in historic downtownColumbus.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Y'all keep it friendly and we'll keep it real
opinions expressed on this showare those of the speakers and
not necessarily those of thecommercial dispatch.
From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
This is Between the Headlines.
Speaker 3 (00:13):
This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
One of our hosts of Between theHeadlines is the managing
editor of our newsroom.
Typically we try to keep newsand opinions separate, but
reporters have a unique insightinto the workings of local
government and their analysiscan be helpful for readers and
listeners.
The dispatch remains committedto journalistic integrity and
(00:37):
our reporting will alwaysreflect that.
And now Between the Headlines.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Today on Between the Headlines, we are pleased to
have City Attorney Jeff Turnage,who has in his hands a stack of
emails overwhelmingly in favorof leaving MSMS right where it
is.
Sid Salter has words about that, and so do we Also.
We'll talk about garbagegarbage pickup, that is, your
(01:05):
rates, and a little bit aboutstreet repaving processes.
But first, retirement looksdifferent for everyone, so your
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That is bentonsinccom.
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That means local decisions,local support and folks who care
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454063.
You are listening to Betweenthe Headlines and today we are
(02:39):
pleased to have City Attorney MrJeff Turnage in our midst and
he's going to join us for thisdiscussion that we have.
Welcome to the program, sir.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Thank you, you're looking well today.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I'm surprised you decided to come on here and be
among the riffraff of Columbus,as we talk about it.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
I actually enjoyed listening to your podcast.
I didn't know what I wouldthink of it when it first
started, but I admire thedispatch for putting this on.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
I think you're getting a lot of public support,
and people that may notnecessarily want to sit and read
a paper are listening to this,and I think it's a good thing,
so I appreciate the invitationto be here.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, I'd like to jump right in here and just kind
of what we're talking abouttoday.
You were the one who put in thepublic records request to get
the public input on theproposals for MSMS.
The W put out a proposal andMSU put out a proposal to host
MSMS.
You got the public input fromthat.
(03:40):
You've been a very strongpublic advocate for MSMS and
keeping MSMS here since well,since the debate of relocation
started, but really even youwere supportive of the school
well before that.
What's your involvement withthe school?
What's the reason that you'rereally out front supporting MSMS
?
Speaker 4 (04:01):
You know, I'll start out by saying I would have never
been considered for acceptanceat MSMS.
I sent some money over there totheir entrepreneurial program.
I heard about it and they askedme would I consider supporting
that contest they had andcoaching some of their
(04:21):
entrepreneurial kids?
And I agreed to do that, andbefore long now I'm sucked in.
They want me to come down thereand present the award at the
end of it, and what I told themis I'm not like you all.
I graduated at the top of thebottom third of my high school,
and that's the truth.
Anyway, my dad and mom werereally smart.
(04:46):
My dad graduated from highschool valedictorian in Grenada
and went to Annapolis, and mymother graduated from the W and
then went on to Peabody and hadher master's in art, and I was
taught to use proper grammarfrom the time I could start
talking.
I hear you, I'm not a scientist, not a mathematician, but I
(05:07):
really think a lot of the school.
I think it was the best, one ofthe best moves the
legislature's ever made, and soI've supported it because it
needs the support.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
That's it, basically well, when you, when you uh got
that public feedback, it waspretty obvious that it was very,
very one-sided, even if youweren't counting it out.
But the count out was 185 to 3pro-MUW, or pro-keeping it in
MUW.
I mean, were you surprised bythat?
(05:36):
What did that say to?
Speaker 4 (05:37):
you.
Yes, I was surprised that itwas that lopsided, but, as I
heard on this podcast and otherplaces, the fix was in.
They already knew what theywere going to do.
I believe that, and I thinkthey crammed the proposal
process into just a small window, assuming they give people not
(06:00):
enough time to respond and thenthey got an overwhelming
response in favor, so they justignored it.
I thought that there would bemore support for keeping it here
, because it's just so much morelogical, but I didn't expect it
to be like this.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, I mean there's 185 people in five days.
That's a lot.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
I was really suspicious of the whole process
and that's why I sent the publicrecord request in.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
And there were only three eyesayers, right, only
three.
And you had a handful of peoplethat were like this whole
process is stupid, you need tojust start over, right?
And then 183 people.
You just need to leave thething alone, and then three
little old people.
Three little old people takingthe politician's side on this.
(06:44):
What does that say to you?
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well, it seems rather compelling to me, the public,
the sentiment of the people thathave knowledge about it, and
these are not just random people.
The vast majority were eitherpeople that have lived in both
places or gone to school atState and MSMS People that have
lived in both places or gone toschool at State and MSMS.
There's students there, thereare graduates of there, there
(07:10):
are alumni of there, parents ofthere, and they're all saying
don't mess with it because it'sworking so well.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
And they all gave the same four or five basic
arguments over and over and overagain, uniquely phrased in
their own way.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
It wasn't any sort of canned responses at least the
way I read them, It'd be onething to think, well, this was
some sort of organized thing,but it wasn't that at all,
because some of them were threepages long, some were two
sentences long.
Some said if it ain't broke,don't fix it.
Others had 40 reasons why toleave it.
(07:43):
So I just think it was peoplethat were aware that wanted to
express their concern.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
But the prevailing themes were cost difference,
obviously, the identity of theschool and how that would be
affected by any affiliation withSFCSD, and I'm trying to
remember the third one that wasintermingling the kids with an
SEC campus.
(08:09):
Yeah, the safety issue was thethird one.
That was really those threereally stuck out in just about
every response in some way oranother.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Let me ask you this Am I crazy, or did the
revelation of these emails putNora Miller into beast mode,
like she has come alive sincethis stuff has come out?
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Well, I'm glad to hear that it put me in beast
mode a bit when I read andreread it.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
and read it the third time.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
He didn't really write that out.
Scratch his chin.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I want to talk about that.
Yeah, you were talking abouthow this looked.
Organic to you, seemed organicto me too.
Mr Salters' response at MSUseems to disagree with that.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Oh boy, yeah, I don't know.
I thought isn't he a PR guy?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
Sid Salter is the vice president of strategic
communication and very strategiccommunication director of the
office of public affairs at msuso sid salter.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
They might need to take a continuing ed from his
lofty balcony, his palace overthere in starkville, he looks
over to the east, toward us,toward the parents of MSMS kids,
and he sticks a big, fat middlefinger and he says you know
what?
What you have to say doesn'tmatter, we know better than thee
(09:36):
.
All right, here's the words.
All right, hear that soundright there.
That's the dispatch.
Just so you know.
This is not the Babylon Bee,this is not the onion.
Here we go.
He says, quote there is nothingremotely scientific about this
input that reflects an accuratemeasure of perfect of public
(09:57):
opinion.
It appears to be the result ofan organized effort to generate
the appearance of public support.
End quote.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
You slipped into a little British there.
I think that Sid is fromcentral Mississippi.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
I don't care.
This is the same guy.
Are you sure he's advocatingfor higher gas taxes?
This is the same guy thatsmokes a cigarette on a stick,
like Cruella DeVille.
He says you people can go situp in the 300 section of davis
wade stadium.
You can eat your stale nachos,you can drink diet pepsi.
(10:33):
You people of columbus, youplanters of odd foliage, he
knows what's best for our ladsand lasses.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Okay, I'm interested in, Jeff, your take on Sid's
words.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
I'm going to give him credit for being right about
one thing it really did createthe appearance of public support
for leaving it here.
But you can subtract everythingelse out and put that in the BS
column, because I mean, it gotworse.
You read just the good part.
(11:09):
I mean, at first of all hethought it was some sort of
orchestrated thing.
I don't believe that you readthe emails and they came from.
Here's one.
Here's one from a woman livingdown in Jackson, adeola Abadili.
I don't know what, but shegraduated from Athens High
School in 07, went toMississippi State, graduated in
(11:31):
12, went to Vanderbilt in 15, isa chemical and biomolecular
engineer.
She's a smart lady and sheconcludes by saying it's a
top-tier high school thatgarners state and national
attention year after year, andgoes on.
I won't bore anybody that wantsto find them.
(11:52):
I assume with a dispatch linkwhere people can read them.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah, it's already up .
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Okay, we're going to post the link on the teaser on
the link to this.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
We're going to make access to these emails readily
available.
Well, I interviewed Nora Milleronce I got my hands on these,
looked through them, was talkingto her about them.
First of all, she bowed up alittle more than she has in the
past with her statements, muchmore definitive than maybe she
had been before, much moreforceful.
(12:25):
But one thing that she saidthat I thought, or two things
that she said that stuck out tome.
One if you look at MSU'sproposal, it's all about SOCSD
and MSU.
It's not really about MSMS atall.
And the second thing she saidwas, while she was surprised
somewhat that there was solittle pro-MSU public input in
(12:47):
this process that she thought itshowed a lack of energy and a
lack of interest, she wasn'tsure that Starkville cared
whether it came over there ornot.
Is that your takeaway there?
Speaker 4 (13:01):
No, that's not my takeaway.
I think they're aiming to getit takeaway there.
No, that's not my takeaway.
I think they're aiming to getit.
And if you listen to at leastthe rumors about Rob Robertson,
he thinks it's a done dealalready and then people need to
just get ready for it to happen.
I got news for that fella.
I hope the news is what I hopeit is.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, how does?
Ok, so I want to.
I want to back up here.
I want to talk about the sortof the public effort to rally
around MSMS and the leadershipof it from the W up until this
point.
So I want to start there.
How do you think that's going?
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I don't really want to criticize the W or Nora
Miller, but I think they shouldhave come out a little more
aggressively rather than saywell, if we lose it, we'll make
another plan, because that's notthe right strategy.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, that's the thing, not the way I get it when
I'm arguing with somebody, eventhough I'm in an argument.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
There's no plan B, Like if this is going to be the
way, we're going to go this wayand you need to catch on, Not,
we might go this way, but if wedon't go this way, there's this
other way.
Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 4 (14:20):
That's kind of the way I heard it and I don't know.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That's kind of the way I heard it and I don't know
Well now.
So what needs to happen now andhow effective can the W, can
Columbus, can the 185 people whowrote in?
How effective can they still bein this argument, or do you
feel like it's going down in ablaze of glory at this point?
Speaker 4 (14:45):
You mean, do I think that the deal is done have?
There's nothing else we can doabout it, so we should we just
give up?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
well, no, I mean, obviously you don't think you
should give up, or you wouldn'tbe going through, uh, through
this effort.
But what?
How can this be leveraged?
How can this be harnessed toactually stop the relocation, if
, if?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
well, you asked me that.
I think the answer is the stateboard of education has no
authority to do it at all.
So the answer is with thelegislature.
And uh, I started I don't know.
Back in may I wrote everymember of the house and senate
Education Committee a longletter and attached articles
(15:27):
from the dispatch.
Ninety-three percent ofstudents surveyed at MSMS favor
leaving it there.
Weinstein wins the historystate wrestling state
championship.
Another kid won a tennischampionship and they won a
science competition.
(15:47):
I think we just have to sell itto the legislature.
Why would we only take all thismoney, give it to Starkville to
build a school?
You're not giving money toevery other place in the state
to build a school?
And why would you uproot what'sworking to conduct an
experiment, whether it wouldwork over there or not, at a
(16:07):
hundred million dollar price tag?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
what do you think that the pr firm that they're
dude I I see this thing clippinga quarter of a billion before
it's over.
I do.
Have you seen where they're?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
gonna put it.
The figures they quoted been 80something million.
So I'm rounding it up to 100.
Yeah, 100.
If you want to make it abillion, whatever works, I guess
.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Well, what do you think about the PR firm that
County City's throwing in forMUW Foundation?
Do you think that that effortto make it more of a statewide
conversation is going to behelpful?
Do you think it can move theneedle?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, I think so.
If you know, a lot of peoplesay lobbyists and PR firms are
ineffectual.
I don't think that's true.
If I go down there to Jacksonand knock on the door, I
probably will be denied entry ifthey don't know who I am or I
didn't give to their campaign.
So I think it'll be helpful.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Well, let me back up and ask you this, trying to look
at it from the otherperspective Do you feel like
Mississippi State Universitycould and would be stewards in
good faith to that school.
Speaker 4 (17:24):
I think they in good faith hope that those students,
if they go to school there atMSMS at state will ultimately
enroll at MSU for college andthen that will ultimately
benefit MSU.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Hook and sinker.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
I think that it's secondary to the interest of the
students, but I could be wrongon that.
I'm just, you know, I'm justaggravated at the whole idea of
it, when you know here we areneighbors basically trying to
pick at each other and it'sworking so well.
(18:01):
Why are you going to do that?
And it's working so well.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Why are you going to do that?
Well, how integral do you thinkMSMS being here is to the
future of MUW as a whole and itsidentity?
Speaker 4 (18:14):
I'm worried a lot about it.
As I understand it, there arenot enough students to keep the
cafeteria open, for example, ifyou don't have MSMS.
So if that's true and I don'tknow if it is or not but if
that's true and they close thecafeteria and you're an MUW
on-campus student, that's not asappealing as if you have a
(18:35):
cafeteria, for example.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, for example, that bill that came out a couple
of sessions ago that at firstwas going to relocate MSMS to
MSU and then it was amended toput MUW under the MSU banner.
Do you think that's coming?
Speaker 4 (18:56):
No, I don't think Starkville MSU wants the W.
I could be wrong on that too.
I guess they've studied it.
They came up with a name for it.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't know, I can't imagine why they would want it.
You know They've got plenty tomanage and it's all fun and
games, in my opinion, until theystart messing with our kids and
they start infringing upon ourinterests here.
To me, I feel disrespected bythe whole process.
(19:28):
It's almost like well, I'll putit to you this way the good
people of Columbus foundedMississippi Agricultural and
Mechanical College way back inthe day.
We sent them their firstpresident, lest they forget.
And here we are, in the year2025.
I will tell you, jeff, I don'tthink it's a done deal at all,
(19:50):
because if you look at thoseemails and you see what kind of
support is behind keeping ithere, I don't see how the
politicians are going to buyinto this.
It is a boondoggle.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
You could be right.
The other thing is, accordingto this letter and I know it's
true because I've talked to someof the MSMS kids when I coached
that entrepreneurial contestMSMS already has a relationship
with MSU doing adjunct researchover there, so that program can
(20:24):
exist without it having to beuprooted.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, what do the letter writers, people of
Columbus, people who want tokeep this, what do they do?
Now, in your mind, if you wereleading the charge, where are
you taking them?
What are you telling them to do?
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I don't know.
I have not written to all theHouse and Senate members in the
universities and colleges, sothat may be another task.
I don't know that they readtheir letters because I've only
gotten one response to all ofthe letters I've written.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Who responded?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
I think it was Senator DuBois, his vice
chairman.
He said he's for leaving itwhere it is.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
DuBois.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I believe I'm right on that.
I'll have to go back and check.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
I want to see that Because I thought he was one of
the guys trying to turn thisinto a hobby horse I may have
the name wrong.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
It's been weeks and weeks.
He's the chair of thatcommittee.
He's the vice chair.
That sent me back.
Okay, all right.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
So that would be interesting if the chairman and
the vice chairman disagree.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
So tell me about this .
Speaker 4 (21:42):
I don't know if you want to go into this, but tell
me about this second part ofyour public records request that
you're still waiting for.
Well, I figured the publiccomment would be one thing, but
I was interested in who theboard members might have been
emailing back and forth withabout this, so I asked for all
their emails between them andthemselves and them and anybody
else about MSMS for the lastthree years and text messages.
(22:06):
And then I got a quote for $756.
So I mailed them a check.
Okay, waiting to see what comes.
Good grief, I predict probablyvery little.
They will spend all that timelooking for it but they won't
find anything.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It's a shame you can't send a public records
request for their signal account.
You know those under the tablekind of messages, because those
are the ones I'm worried about.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Yeah, well, they probably don't record their
conversation, so we won't beable to know what that is.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
They probably got into a glass chamber to talk
about this deal.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Well, is there anything you want to add, Jeff?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Nope, I think that's more than I probably should have
said.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Well, we really appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
I do, and I appreciate your, your role as
the city attorney.
I know we didn't talk aboutthis episode.
You probably don't want to.
I do have one question aboutthat All right, go ahead.
He's giving me the look.
Has there ever been a meetingwhere you left that meeting and
you're just like man, I need togo get hammered Probably more
(23:16):
than one, and I don't think anyof them would be mad at me for
saying it we appreciate youcoming on the program.
Ladies and gentlemen, you'vebeen listening to between the
headlines with our special guesttoday, city attorney mr jeff
turnage, appreciate y'all haveme now.
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Holy cow, dude, I felt like Iwas in the presence of, like,
(24:48):
maybe, teddy Roosevelt, like hespoke very, very softly, but
that stick was amazing.
He was wielding Lucille off ofthe Walking Dead.
And I'm telling you somethingthose emails are really going to
hurt the political cause ofthose who are pushing to get
this thing dug up and moved overthere.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
You know there's nothing more fickle than a
nervous legislator, and if theyget enough of them that don't
want to hear this anymore,they'll drop it.
That's where Norm Miller comesin.
That's where the W alumni comesin.
The W alumni are notorious forI mean historically notorious,
(25:30):
and legislators have told methis since I've come to Columbus
is the last person that youwant to look out your window and
see is a line of W alumnicoming to complain to you about
something.
And I had one legislator toldme I literally hid behind my
desk one time when that happened.
So I bet that group needs to beleveraged.
(25:54):
They need to be leveraged now.
And I think I mean and NoraMiller's the one to do it and
let me tell you something I havebeen, I've been critical and I
think rightfully so of sort ofthe tepid, almost noncommittal
nature of her stance on MSMS,the paper from a couple of days
(26:24):
ago about this issue with thepublic input.
She really turned the page onthat and came out swinging a
little harder than she has inthe past, and I think that she
takes that mindset to the alumni, mobilizes them, lets them know
hey, we've got an existentialcrisis on campus to the W.
We cannot lose MSMS.
Let's go keep it.
(26:45):
Well, I have a feeling thatthat's the best bullet Columbus
still has.
That's the best that Columbusstill has to keep the fix from
being in here, and I think thatit could be effective.
And I think that those 185letters yeah, and.
I think that it could beeffective and I think that those
185 letters show how effectivethat a good, solid, linear
(27:06):
argument could have in this.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, those emails are enough to scare anybody who
is wanting to be a politicalboogeyman.
In this ordeal OK, you look atit, man.
In this ordeal Okay you look atit We've got the city of
Columbus, having given$15,000-ish, likewise with
Lowndes County, and so you'vegot this PR stuff.
They're going to be stirring upthe alumni too all over the
state of.
Mississippi.
So I do not think for onesecond that Columbus is going to
go quietly in the night.
(27:40):
And I was just sitting here Iwas looking at Jeff and he had
all these emails and he was justvery gently and quietly peeling
through them.
I'm like man, that's powerfulstuff.
And I'm more optimistic and Ithink Sid Salter needs to keep
running his mouth because he isgoing to set people's hair on
(28:00):
fire.
That holier than thou, mightierthan you are, kind of attitude
I love it.
Just keep that coming.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
look I I understand why you feel that way.
Um I, I and I don't intend tomake you mad when I say this,
david I am going to defend hisposition a little bit here, not
because I agree with it, butbecause I mean David, given who
he is on the game board here,what was he supposed to say?
(28:32):
I?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
understand.
He's got a job to do and he'sdoing the job.
He's doing whatever Mark Keenumtells him to do.
I get that, that's what he'ssupposed to do, but I think he
needs to stand on principle here.
I think he needs to look atthis for what it is what do you
think?
Speaker 1 (28:46):
his principles are, though?
He believes in his university,and he believes that his
university is the best home forMSMS.
So, hell yeah, he's going tosay that, but why?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
is he going to?
Send you an is what he believeswe're such a great university,
we're going to go over toColumbus and gobble up their
stuff too.
I'm telling you, dude, theyneed to mind their own business.
I'm right there on the edge ofwanting to sell my tickets, Zach
.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Well, that's up to you.
I don't want to renew I probablywill, but I just don't know I'm
a Razorback fan so I don't havetickets there, but I don't, ok.
So one thing that I think hasbeen a weakness of the Columbus
community fervor in thisargument is being kind of borne
(29:32):
out right here, and I understandwhy somebody from Columbus
would get offended by hisstatements because they do not
see it the way that he sees itand I don't.
I believe that MSMS should stayhere.
I'm on the record saying thatand I believe that.
But I think a weakness in theColumbus fervor on this and
Lowndes County fervor on this isthere hasn't been enough
(29:53):
recognition of who everybody ison the board and what they're
supposed to be doing.
And I think that there's a lotof feelings hurt at MSU.
I think there's a lot offeelings hurt at Starkville and
because, very close to the issue, very MSMS is here.
That's a community identitything.
(30:14):
Starkville doesn't see it thatway, msu doesn't see it that way
.
They do not see themselves thatway.
They do not see themselves asthe villain, they see themselves
as somebody, that of entitiesthat are trying to enhance the
educational value of msms orsocsd.
Now that's.
That's a weird thing.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
But um, ain't it though.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Um, it's a weird thing but you can't come at
somebody expecting them to bewhere you want them to be, like
I expect.
I want to hit you.
I want to hit you right hereand I don't expect you to duck.
Well, of course they're gonnaduck and of course they're gonna
be where they're supposed to be.
On the game board, sid salteris going to advocate for
(30:56):
mississippi state university.
That's what he gets paid to doand more than that, he believes
it.
And why wouldn't he?
Why wouldn't he believe it?
For the same reason that thepeople who believe in the W
believe in the W, the samereason that people who believe
in Columbus and Lowndes Countybelieve in Columbus and Lowndes
County, because that's theirpeople, that's their institution
(31:19):
.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So to summarize what you're saying my tax dollars are
paying for both of theseinstitutions to fight each other
.
Well, well spent, well spent.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I'm just saying that I don't know, like, why anybody
is surprised at that response,because what else was he going
to say?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
He could have just minded his business and not sent
you an email.
You know, I'll get back to youon that.
I'll get back to you on that,Zach.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
I want to.
I want to just say that thefact that he bellied up and
commented on questions that hedid not want to answer, I do
respect him for that.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
He's got a pair.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
As I respect Jeff Tarnage when he's done it, as as
I respect Jeff Tarnage whenhe's done it, as I respect
anybody when they do it.
So I like comments better thanno comments 100% of the time.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
All right, you are listening to Between the
Headlines, with Zach and a veryfired up David today.
Let's move along, shall we?
Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
no-transcript.
During the work session in thecity council today, kevin
Stafford presented a proposalkind of a nifty deal where he
and they didn't vote on it today, it was just a work session
Presented a proposal from acompany that would essentially
run a souped-up van with a bunchof instruments down all of the
(33:01):
city, maintained streets, fancy.
While they're driving downthere it would pick up all of
the data that they would needfor road condition.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
That's going to make people nervous if they see that
coming by their house.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Yeah, probably so, but I don't guess it would be
here long.
I don't guess it would take tooterribly long to do it.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
This is something that they used to have to take a
man out there to do by hand,and it's not.
That's not nearly as efficientas this.
So I guess it'll like scan thepavement to see if it's got
empty places underneath it andsee if this road's getting ready
.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yeah, rough spots, the integrity of the road, you
know the condition of thepavement, all of that, and then
the size of the road and thosetypes of things, and then you
know the back end of that.
Then, neal Schaefer, if thecity council goes with this and
lets this data be taken this way, then the city would have that
data.
(33:52):
Kevin and Stafford and NealSchaefer could bring out a
variety of plans with us, like,okay, if we want to do, a
variety of plans with us like,okay, if we want to, uh, if, if
we want to do, if we want tobring all of our roads to an a
or b grade in the next 10 years,how much would that cost and
how could we do it?
Or what could we do with themoney that we know that we have
from the internet, use tax, over10 years, over 15 years, um,
(34:17):
different scenarios that theycould draw up, and then they
could base that on priority andneed of a road.
Now, how is that?
How that's different from whatthey've done before is they've
pulled maybe one or two highpriority roads off the top and
then 60, 70 percent of the moneythat they have to do paving
work is divided equally by ward,where the council person
(34:41):
themselves has discretion onwhat gets paved and what doesn't
.
Mr Jones, in talking about thisissue today, said I hope that if
we do this and we get this data, it takes the human hand out of
it and maybe we can get to apoint to where we're not
fighting over road money andwe're saying this is our road
(35:03):
plan.
These are the priorities thatwe've put together based on the
data and this is what we'regoing to do, and I like that
better than what's been going on, because what's been going on
is inherently political, whetherthe council members want it to
be or not.
When you say to uh a councilman, here's uh, eight hundred
(35:31):
thousand dollars.
Right, here's your list ofroads and the condition that
they're in, pick which ones youwant to pave, that's going to be
political on some level even ifyou're trying to do it in the
best faith possible.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
It's still going to be political.
It's not only political, butyou're asking reasonably smart
people to talk about thingsthey're not really trained in.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
OK, not all streets cost the same to resurface.
Not all aggregates are the same.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
Some are wider, some are hillier, and Kevin does a
good job arming them with thatinformation to the best of his
ability.
But this would be way better.
It would be way more objective,and I hope in the end, that not
only that they go for thisstreet assessment, but that they
will operate in a data-drivenway, moving forward.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Yeah, and it'll also give the people on Vanessa
Poteet's Facebook page.
You know, they can gripe at themachine, right?
They can gripe at the policy orthe data.
That's right.
You know they're not going tograb Ethel Stewart by the hair
and sling her around and saylook, this is that pothole's
13th birthday party.
(36:44):
Yeah, I'm tired of hearingabout all that.
Sounds like a good thing.
I hope Stephen Jones does wellwith this.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah, I hope that they go with that and I hope the
council will back that approachall the way through through In
less pleasant news.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
it looks like waste services are about to go up 84
cents per month per customer.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Is that what it's looking like?
That's what it's looking like.
The Golden Triangle WasteServices, who had to buy a bunch
of trucks last couple of yearsto replace a fleet that was
falling apart, is now startingto charge its member entities
that's going to be LowndesCounty, columbus, octavio, hall
County, various entities fromacross the region A little bit
(37:31):
more per household customergoing to charge those entities.
That.
The entities now have a choice,that the entities now have a
choice.
City of Columbus has a choiceto eat that 84 cents, which
would, over a year's time, equalabout $100,000 in Columbus's
(37:52):
case.
Eat that in whole or in part,or pass it in whole or in part
to the customer, and that's whatthey're debating, right now, I
don't see any benefit of thecity eating any of that 84 cents
, because money is money ismoney.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
The taxpayers are going to have to cough it up one
way or the other, and if thecity eats it up, you don't see
where it's going, whereas ifit's 84 cents added to your bill
even though that's not pleasantat least you know what that
money's going toward, right?
Yeah, when your trash does getpicked up.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I think Rusty Green has been the major proponent for
the city eating the $100,000.
And his rationale, which Iunderstand, is back when Golden
Triangle Waste Services went upon them before and it was a
considerable amount more thatthey went up on them before they
also cut their service in half.
In the city they were gettingtwice a week pickup.
(38:41):
Now they're getting once a weekpickup and they're paying more
for it.
And you know that sandpaperedRusty pretty good and now
they're coming to raise the rateagain and Rusty's trying to
think about the customers hereand honestly I don't think that
the council is unsympathetic tothat argument.
They had very thoughtfuldiscussion about that today,
(39:05):
about the practicality of it,and one thing that the mayor is
kind of leaning toward is acompromise where they see how
much they can absorb practicallyand then they pass the rest of
it on and then that way they'renot asking, the city's not
having to eat the whole appleand neither is the customer, and
(39:25):
that may be the right approach.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
I don't know Well, I mean, the customer has to eat
the apple one way or the other,regardless of whose mouth
actually bites into it.
I'm sitting here looking atthis and thinking that the city
of Columbusumbus is treating thesymptom rather than the problem
.
I think the city of columbushas a responsibility to find a
way to break up the monopoly.
(39:47):
Okay, there are other optionsout there.
They may not be practical rightnow, but we've got to be
looking to the future and wecan't be relying upon golden
triangle waste services well,with two years ago they they
requested proposals from fromanybody who would submit one and
those proposals.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
The best, highest value proposal was was golden
triangle waste services for thecustomer.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Well, good, but but the same thing with the uh, the
pavement.
Okay, um, nobody wants to beout in the sun building roads or
repairing roads in the heat orin the rain, snow, whatever, and
not making really good moneyoff of it.
I get that, but it's an ungodlyamount of money that gets
(40:34):
poured into these services andwe've got to be more creative.
We need to go out there to thecommunity and say, hey, kid, you
need to rent you this piece ofequipment and and you come over
here, you fill these holes.
You fill these holes to thisspecification.
We'll pay you good money and itwon't be nowhere X, y, z
(40:58):
contractor and actually savemoney as opposed to figuring out
well, how are we going to, howare we going to pay it.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
Well, on the waste services deal, lowndes County
was a little less short sightedon it two years ago, because
when waste services goes up onone entity, they, they go up on
all of their entities, entitythey go up on all of their
entities.
When they went up in 2023,lowndes County went up $3 on
(41:27):
their customers.
Their customers were paying $12.
They went up $3 on theircustomers right then.
And then when they came up withtheir more nominal increase
this time, they had thatbuilt-in flexibility to where
the county can eat it, becausethey went ahead and said okay we
kind of see where this is going.
So we're going to go ahead andstart charging this amount, get
(41:50):
everybody used to it, get thecounty used to it.
And then the other increase,the other incremental increases
that may happen over thecontract term, which is five
years from goes through 28,.
We'll absorb it and so that washow they did it and the city is
in a place where they arereacting to it, increase by
(42:11):
increase.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Well, zach, I just think we've got to be smart with
the contracts.
I mean, you think about it ifthey're allowed to bump up the
rate in their contract?
Speaker 1 (42:19):
And they are On the anniversary of the contract.
They're probably going to do it.
They can bump it up every yearthrough 28.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And you know I'm just thankful to have garbage
services.
Okay, I lived outside ofNashville in a place that did
not have those services.
You had to take your trash to afacility to dump it off and it
was absolutely awful and I'lltell you it sounds terrible.
It was terrible, and a lot ofrednecks up there were burning
(42:46):
their garbage.
They just they didn't want togo and put a hole in their tire
driving up to that stinkymachine, and so I'm just
thankful to have garbageservices.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Well, and to that point, I was talking to somebody
not too long ago that wastalking about the importance of
local politics and local news asopposed to, you know, the
national and the state levelstuff, which is all important.
But I was talking to the person.
I was like you know, all newsis local and all politics is
(43:18):
local.
And if you don't believe me,wait till they don't come get
your trash once, and then you'llunderstand.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's right, because not only will it pile up in
your yard, it'll pile up in yourneighbor's yard and it'll pile
up in the streets and in thegutters and then it'll cause
flooding.
And I'm not even going to gointo all that stuff again.
Hey, this has been a goodepisode, yeah yeah.
Enjoyed it.
Yeah, you've been listening toBetween the Headlines with Zach
and David, david with the RedBull in hand.
(43:47):
I'm exhausted talking aboutthis MSMF, but at the same time,
I'm not even started yet.
I can't wait to see whatbecomes of all this and I think,
the powers that be here uh,nora miller being included in
that.
I think we are well poised andI think it's going to be a
battle to the teeth man.
It's going to be boom.
(44:09):
What say you?
Speaker 1 (44:11):
well, um, I don't know.
I mean, it's going to depend onum how those resources are
leveraged.
But I will say that, in thesame spirit that we got Rob
Robertson on, I think we oughtto invite Sid.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
Sid.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
We may have to tie you to your chair if we do it.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Be careful how you play with your toys, Sid.
Your toys see everything.
I think we need to close theepisode.
Listen.
We welcome your comments.
Please send them in Tips atcdispatchcom.
Again, that is tips atcdispatchcom.
Like us, share us, rate us.
(44:58):
You can also follow me onFacebook or X at Dee Chisholm 00
.
Until next week, we're signingoff from Catfish Alley Studios
here in historic downtownColumbus.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Y'all keep it friendly and we'll keep it real
opinions expressed on this showare those of the speakers and
not necessarily those of thecommercial dispatch.
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