What if life's unexpected challenges were the stepping stones to a greater destiny? Meet Karen, a multi-business owner and devout Christian, who shares her remarkable journey of faith, resilience, and transformation. Growing up in a devout Christian environment, Karen learned to differentiate between her own thoughts and divine guidance, using scripture as her compass. She opens up about her first marriage, navigating the trials of infidelity and infertility, and the lessons learned from overlooking red flags during courtship. Karen’s journey is a testament to the power of faith and the importance of heeding a higher calling, even when life throws unexpected storms your way.
Karen's path to motherhood took a different route, as she and her husband Bart faced the emotional and physical struggles of infertility. With faith as her anchor, she embraced the Foster to Adopt program, overcoming financial and emotional hurdles to create the family they longed for. Listen to Karen’s poignant recount of fostering and eventually adopting Bryson, a biracial baby who brought immense joy and love into their lives. Her story highlights the significant impact of choosing alternative paths to parenthood and the deep bonds that form through the process of fostering and adoption.
But Karen's journey doesn't stop at family. Her career transformation is equally inspiring, shifting from a physical therapist assistant to finding a calling in massage therapy. This change was fueled by personal experiences, including overcoming a serious car accident. Amidst these transitions, Karen's faith in divine guidance led her to pursue her dream of opening a salon, with community support and perseverance lighting the path. Karen’s story is a compelling reminder of how embracing life’s uncertainties with faith can unlock unexpected opportunities and fulfillment.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 3 (00:16):
Hi and welcome back to another episode of Beyond
Existing.
I have a guest today who is atrue inspiration.
She is a multi-business owner,but more than that, she is a
strong believer in Jesus Christ.
She constantly seeks his adviceand has become an awesome
(00:37):
listener to his guidance.
Karen, I know that people whohave been Christians their
entire lives I'm talking like 60plus years they have expressed
to me that they question ifGod's really talking to them and
I just you've shared with mejust so many examples of how you
(00:58):
listen to him and just you knowin this interview.
I just want you to start offjust sharing.
How do you know?
It's the Spirit Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Okay, well, thank you for having me on your podcast.
This is truly an honor, andthank you for your friendship.
Thank you, I'm grateful forthis opportunity to share my
testimony.
I got saved, asked the Lord,jesus Christ, into my heart when
I was 11 years old.
I was raised in a Christianhome and brought up in church.
(01:31):
Our denomination is Baptist, soI came to know the Lord at a
very early age.
Discipleship is a real thingand I had a lot of godly people,
a lot of godly counsel thatsurrounded my young life.
Not to say that I was perfectI'm not going that way but I
just had a lot of people whospoke truth into my life.
(01:52):
I began to learn that, in orderto discern what were my thoughts
from, god's thoughts wasfiltered through scripture.
If you're not constantly inscripture or hearing the word of
God, it's going to be a littlemore difficult for you to really
discern.
Is this God talking to me or isthis a personal thought of my
(02:14):
own?
Has my dream, you know, kind ofinterfered with his voice?
And I will tell you one of thetried and trues.
Here I am at 54 years old now,having walked with the Lord this
long, I just you have such apeace when you get that
confirmation from Scripture andjust through your prayer time
(02:37):
with the Lord, and you begin tosee things in your life fall
into place according to whatyour thoughts and that voice
inside you was saying.
I've never heard the Lord perse speak audibly to me.
I've never had a moment likethat, but there have been some
very impressionable times in mylife where it was quite obvious
(02:59):
that he was speaking to me andof course then there's no
mistaking that, because theneverything just lines up and you
just know.
But yes, peace is probably.
Peace amidst a storm, amidstall kinds of circumstances, is
probably one of the ways that Ihave been able to know for sure
that it was him speaking to me.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, yeah, and that impression it's like no other
impression.
I can't describe it because youdon't hear it, but you just
feel it, you hear it and youfeel it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, there's no voice, but you hear it.
I really can't describe it.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And it just feels so clear.
It's not murky in any way,shape or form.
Right, yeah, that's right, andthose are wonderful times when
we're that close to the Lordthat we really feel him speaking
to us like that.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I know you shared with me that before you met your
husband Bart, you were marriedbefore.
I was Before you met yourhusband Bart.
You were married before.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I was.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I just want you to share with people just kind of
what you went through, becauseyou said that you came from a
very strong Christian family.
I did.
You grew up in church, you knowwe're not supposed to get
divorced.
If we grew up that way, Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, I was 19 when I him um, and 21 when we got
married.
He was 22.
We did meet at church, butunbeknownst to me, and of course
we had this amazing wedding,very.
We took communion together justjust during our, our ceremony.
I mean this I thought I wastruly marrying my soulmate.
(04:45):
I had never been with any otherman and so I just really
thought that this was the one.
Now I'm going to back up and say, however, in those couple of
years of courtship, there weresome times where I kind of
questioned some things, therewere some red flags which,
(05:05):
looking back now as a maturebeliever and as a young believer
, then that was the Holy Spirit,I believe, kind of saying,
karen, are you sure about this?
Because I saw some things backthen, sensed some things back
then that I just kind of turneda blind eye to.
I was like no, no, no, no, no,I'm just overreacting.
Some things back then that Ijust kind of turned a blind eye
(05:26):
to, I was like no, no, no, no,no, that's I'm just overreacting
, I'm being, you know,possessive or you know, jealousy
or whatever, and I just need toget control of that because he
loves me.
And so, you know, we gotmarried in 1990 and
unfortunately went through.
He had an affair about not evenbefore we were married three
(05:46):
years.
Then I struck, we got, we stayedtogether, we went through
Christian counseling and wemoved away and we began to want
to plan to have a family.
And that was when I learnedthat I had some infertility
issues and it wasn't him, it wasme.
We did some we couldn't do invitro.
That was too expensive where wewere financially as a young
(06:09):
married couple.
That was not conducive, um.
So I went through somesurgeries um to find out exactly
what was going on, diagnosedwith endometriosis, um, and they
said that I was, you know,pretty much they weren't really
sure how I was going to getpregnant.
I did get pregnant shortlyafter we went through all the
(06:31):
counseling and kind of renewedour vows and that pregnancy
failed within the first eightweeks.
So they're not really sure ifthat was a blighted ovum or a
true pregnancy, but nonethelessI ended up in the hospital with
a DNC and then the next time waswhen we actually sought
(06:51):
assistance and I did six monthsof some shots that put me into
chemically induced menopause andI was successfully able to get
pregnant the normal way within amonth or two after coming off
with those shots and thatpregnancy made it to the first
trimester.
And then, right there betweenthat 12th and 13th week, I also
(07:14):
miscarried again, and I willtell you, during that
miscarriage, in the hospitalroom, I remember vividly folks
coming in and having to takecare of me, and one person in
particular from the phlebotomydepartment to take blood just
said how come you're so strong?
And I just literally said tothem I don't know why God
(07:37):
allowed this to happen, but Iknow he's in control and I just
don't know how people go throughsomething this devastating
without him.
So even then, when my faith wasbeing tested, I knew that he
was with me.
I just didn't understand,because that was the one thing
that I longed for and I thinkmaybe in some ways I longed for
(07:58):
it, maybe for the wrong reasons.
You know, post, post adultery,post, you know difficulties in
marriage and then finding lovefor one another again, going
through counseling and thinkingthat you're on the road to
recovery.
Sometimes you think a baby'sgoing to solve it or it's going
to help.
Yeah, I knew he desired to havea family.
I wanted to have a family andit just was not definitely
(08:23):
looked like it was not going tohappen the natural way and sadly
we moved to South Carolinatogether about 10 years into
marriage, went to a infertilityclinic and was chosen for a
study and they were going tobasically, if I would agree to
be in the study, or if we wouldagree to be in the study, I
(08:44):
could get an in vitro for freeand just to be a part of the
study.
I wouldn't know if I wasgetting the study medications,
but I would be able to have anin vitro.
And he said no, and I knew thenthat something else was up and
unfortunately some of thosevices that he was dealing with
(09:05):
had reared their ugly head again, and so the writing was kind of
on the wall that that marriagehad definitely gone awry and
unfaithfulness.
It just leads to so muchmistrust and the rejection as a
woman that that causes you tofeel I just, I just, I just
couldn't do it any longer.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So I plus, plus, plus , really on the miscarriage,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
There was a lot of emotional hurt that that, that I
don't blame on him.
I made choices too.
As far as you know, decisionsthat I made in my life could
have contributed, may havecontributed to where I ended up,
but I know that God, evendespite he, was there, he was
directing, he was guiding.
(09:53):
He never left my side.
Gratefully, he is a God ofsecond chances.
So when I came home after thatand just needed the support and
love of my family back inHickory when I moved back from
Charleston, that was the bestdecision I could have made.
And when I was in my healingjourney, just prior to my
divorce being final, in walkedBart Grant.
(10:16):
So we met at church and Godjust did something in my heart
that I didn't think would everhappen at least not that quick
and within a couple of years wewere married in 2004.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
So how old were you when you had the miscarriage?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I was the first miscarriage, I would have been
25, 26, I was almost.
I just turned 29 with thesecond one okay, and then how
much long?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
how long was it before you met bart um, I met
bart when I was 33 and we gotmarried, or got married when we
were coming up on 35 so you guys, you dated, but due to north
carolina divorce laws for thosethat don't know if you are
(11:12):
separated, it takes one year,yep, for a divorce to be final
yep, well, and it had been thatlong.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It had definitely been that long.
Okay, it had.
I was probably already past theyear mark when I met Bart.
It's just the finalization ofthe paperwork and getting and
getting my ex-husband at thetime to sign everything.
I but he basically would notmake the first move and I had to
do it and so it was a.
It was really more semantics,paperwork-wise, and when it was
(11:44):
final in June of 2002, westarted dating and then married
in June of 2004.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Now did Bart know all about your infertility issues
before he did?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
He did.
And I kind of thought that Godwas filling in the gaps because
Bart, when we met, he had been,he was a young Christian, he was
33 years old, but he was ayoung Christian.
He had just been saved, only acouple of years prior to us
meeting, late 2001, early 2002.
And he had gotten savedsometime late, I think it was
(12:19):
1999.
And prior to his salvation,Bart had been in a relationship
and had a child.
They never married, but theyhad a child together and so
Brandon was very much a part ofhis life, and so I do have a
stepson, and Brandon will be 30this year, and so when we
started dating, it was kind of apackage deal for me with him
(12:43):
and so I kind of thought God wasfilling it in like, okay, well,
you know, if this man is theone that you're going to be with
, then he already has a child,so at least you're going to
experience some level ofmotherhood, Um and uh.
So but yes, I mean Bart knewall about infertility struggles,
(13:03):
was very supportive.
We did almost well, I wouldn'tsay immediately, but within the
first year or so really startedtrying ourselves because I
thought, well, OK, it didn'twork with someone else, Maybe
it's because God had thatplanned but unfortunately on our
own we could not do that.
I did go to the REACH clinic inAsheville, North Carolina,
(13:26):
worked with them and I hadalready been through so much
previous stimulation of myovaries and stuff chemically.
They basically said you know,we can try a couple of
inseminations but you'reprobably going to need donor
eggs to even do it in vitro.
I did approach my sisterbecause obviously you know I
(13:47):
would love for there to havebeen our you know our DNA in
that child.
And although you know, at thetime the idea of that was
something we were both open to,in the end it wasn't something
that they could truly live with,knowing that I might have
carried a child thatbiologically, technically,
(14:08):
wasn't mine.
So that did not work out, thatwasn't an option, but it would
have been a real stretch for usas well.
You know, financially, how thatindustry puts such a financial
strain on young families.
To do in vitro these days it'sjust ridiculous because that's
(14:28):
not something that insurancehelps pay for.
Yeah, you know.
So we, we just didn't go thatroute and by then I began to
just sort of again like thewriting on the wall, I'm banging
my head against a door that isobviously not meant to be open
for me.
So at the age of 41, I wentback to my gynecologist, who had
(14:49):
been so great through the years, and she said, karen, we've got
mounds of documentation thatwill support the hysterectomy
whenever you're ready.
And I said I'm, I'm ready.
Obviously, this is not part ofGod's plan for me, but I don't
want to suffer month to month,and so that was something that
was a very easy decision to make, but yet emotionally difficult,
(15:13):
because I can remember layingthere on that stretcher, knowing
what I was getting ready to gointo that operating room for,
and the anesthesiologist cameout and he was like why are you
crying, are you OK?
And the anesthesiologist cameout and he was like why are you
crying, are you okay?
And I was like, yeah, I'm justrealizing that the thoughts, the
dreams of having my own childend today Because I won't have
(15:36):
the equipment anymore and it wasjust my heart and my head
getting on the same page withthat finality was a little bit
tough.
But when I look back on it now,having been, you know, 13, 14
years ago, it was the bestdecision for my health that I
could have made and it led tosuch a beautiful story now, yeah
(15:59):
, yeah, I know you want me toget into so I do have a question
how did you feel when you toldthe doctor I'm ready?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
When those words came out of your mouth I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Again, I think that I just was tired.
I was tired of holding on to adream that it was never going to
come to fruition, and I was atpeace with the decision.
I knew that it was the rightdecision for me.
It was just not until the veryday of surgery that my heart
(16:35):
truly had to say goodbye to thatpart of my past and move on,
you know, know, with a newfuture, and one that would
include never, ever,experiencing feeling a child
growing inside of me, knowingthat there's a child on this
earth that is part of me.
(16:58):
Instead, jesus is taking careof my babies.
Yes, and and I know I'll- seethem one day.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
You will, you definitely will, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
But he had another plan and gratefully, you know,
Bart was on the same page withme in all of that.
Another reason to be thankfulfor second chances.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yes, another.
So you guys, you couldn'tafford private adoption.
So what route did you take?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, private adoption is about as big a money
racket as in vitro can be forfamilies and we just weren't in
that place in our lives and,like I said, we were in our 40s
and after we did some healingfrom the hysterectomy and I kind
of, you know, start to thinkabout, ok, how do we do this
different?
What does this look like forour family and how can I
(17:54):
experience being a mom truly,being the only mom to a child,
not a step mom or with partialresponsibilities, to minor
responsibilities?
You know, bart and I juststarted to pray about it and
just trying to look for otheroptions and we found family
(18:14):
builders right there in CatawbaCounty.
We went and were interviewedand talked through what that
looked like.
We were not looking for truefoster care, we were looking to
do adoption and they at thattime called it the Foster to
Adopt program.
So we took the MAP classes, wedid everything we needed to do
(18:37):
to technically be foster parentsand then we made the book and
everything and depending on whatwould kind of come case by case
, then if we were a good fit,then they would contact us and
that's kind of.
We just had to leave itliterally in God's hands and we
finished up all of that in.
(18:57):
About that was about a six weekprogram that you had to do these
mandatory classes and then thehome visit, and while that kind
of coincided with us selling ourclasses and then the home visit
, and well, that kind ofcoincided with us selling our
home and building our home inconover.
And so she came, the socialworker came and interviewed us
while we were living with myparents and she knew it was
(19:18):
temporary because she could seethem working.
We were living with my parentsbecause my parents were on the
land that was right there nearour land, and so she could see
that our house was in progress,and so she just kept us in the
system and in the loop and cameand did her monthly visits just
as if she was in our home, sothat when it came time for us to
move into our home withcertificate of occupancy, she
(19:42):
would then be able to come inand actually do our legitimate
physical home study.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Well, what are some things they were looking at or
looking for?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, obviously they're looking for the safety
of a child.
Yeah, they want to know ourmedications.
They wanted to know legalbackground, as far as you know,
did we have?
Is there any abuse in ourfamily?
I mean, they're just lookingfor all kinds of things that
would give them an indication ofwhether or not you're a good
(20:15):
family for them to safely placea child in your care, because at
the time you know it's justfostering You're not promised
adoption but it's fostering.
So they're looking for thosekinds of things.
They knew that we didn't needthe money.
It wasn't a financial reasonwhy we were doing it.
We had a clean home, we werefree from major medications and
(20:37):
the ones that we took we put ina lockbox, just like they asked
for.
Did we set up our home withchild locks and on the cabinets
and on the doors and in theplugs, and I mean all the things
.
Could we safely care for achild?
And then they're looking foryour mental stability too.
They do look at your finances.
They do make sure that you havea stable job.
(20:58):
I mean just a lot.
They're looking at you as afull family picture, but it all
definitely comes down to thesafety of the child and can you
as a full family picture.
But it all, it all definitelycomes down to the safety of a
child and can you?
Can you guide a child duringthe time that they're entrusted
to your care?
So I hope that kind of answersthat.
Oh yeah yeah, that was awonderful explanation so we had
moved into our home in februaryof 2009.
(21:21):
She came and did the studyimmediately and so that we would
be eligible, and I got a callat work out of the blue on march
the 2nd saying we've got alittle situation.
We only need you for aboutthree days till we can find this
young lady more of a permanentfoster situation.
(21:44):
So we just need you for threedays.
And I'm like, okay, give me thedetails.
Like I'm excited, but you don'tgive me the details.
Well, she's five years old, sheis in foster care because the
father sexually molested her andher sister.
And I was like, oh, okay, sothis is like now.
We're like all the stuff thatwe talked about in our foster
(22:05):
classes was like it just reallydoes happen and they've been
removed from his care and beenin foster care, but
unfortunately, she is acting outsome of the touching on her
sister.
And I'm like what?
I just was like, okay, allright, wait a minute.
(22:28):
And they're like but, karen, wejust need you for about three
days, cause we know thatfostering, you know, especially
an older child was notnecessarily what you wanted, but
we just really we needsomething quick, like tonight.
So of course, I call Bart.
He's like, yeah, I mean let'sdo it.
I mean obviously, obviously.
And I'm like it's only forthree days and I mean we'll just
(22:49):
, we'll see how this goes.
And, uh, he'll kind of give usa feel for you know what to
expect in the future.
I called my employer andthey're like absolutely, we
support you.
Go ahead and leave, go.
And I went straight to DSS fromwork, met there the current
foster mom, the whole socialwork team, the police, I mean
whoever else was there.
I just remember it being a bigroom full of people and this
(23:12):
little girl was sitting besideus and she kept coming over and
she was like, do you have anygum?
And she just was talking to meand you know, she on my lap down
the.
You know I was like, okay, I'mtrying to listen to the
conversation, but all the wholetime I'm like you, precious,
precious little girl, I you'regoing to be taken care of, baby,
(23:33):
you're going to be safe at ourhouse.
We, we literally left fromthere.
I didn't have really everythingthat I needed.
Um, I did have a car seat,praise god.
Um, because she was still smallenough and young enough that
needed to be in a car seat andwe just proceeded to the house.
It was kind of like, ok, you'vegot this child and she had just
(23:53):
the clothes on her back in asmall little bag.
I mean it was really pretty sad.
But you know what?
God left her in our care fornine months, eight nine months.
He was with us through November12th and the first couple of
months were kind of ugly, to thepoint where I'm on the phone
with a social worker going okay,I don't know that I can do this
(24:14):
Like she's screaming, she'sthrowing clothes, she's temper
tantruming and stuff, and you'retelling me I can't spank, I
can't put her in the corner, Ican't.
You know like what am Isupposed to do?
Because everything that I wastaught with discipline was what
they tell you you can't do.
I just went into the room.
I'll never forget this one time.
(24:39):
I went into the room and I justI grabbed her, kind of held her
like in a kind of cradled likea baby, but I just squeezed her
super tight, um.
So when I say grabbed her,that's what I mean.
I'm like squeezing her, likeholding her close to me, so her
her head and hair I can evenvisualize it now is in my right
arm and her legs are off to myleft side.
I'm sitting on the edge of thebed and I'm rocking back and
forth and I am holding herreally tight.
(25:01):
She's kicking, she's screaming,crying and just like oh you
know, she's just yelling allkinds of stuff Like I don't want
you to leave me alone.
And all I said to her is asquietly as I could and I won't
say her name on here, just to becareful, but I said her name on
here, for you know, just for tobe careful but I said her name
(25:21):
and I said there's nothing youcan do that's going to make me
stop loving you.
And it was like this child justmelted in my arms and that was
our turning point.
Was she a?
perfect kid after that.
No, that was.
That was the point that she waslike I have boundaries and but
there's not like all of this, Idon't have to do this.
(25:42):
She still loves me and thingsgot so much better from there
and, of course, we had her inchurch and she was loving it.
We found out she loved musicand she just became the
brightest little girl.
She went from being thisfearful, more shy and lashing
out kind of girl to a reallyloving little girl.
(26:02):
She was more gentle with ourpets.
We had the two dogs at the timeand she was more gentle with
them.
She became fun and loving andit was like we saw a shift
completely in her littlepersonality and we started
counseling, because that'smandatory in some cases for them
to have to go to counseling.
Things were going so well inthat fostering that Bart and I
(26:26):
realized that we could love achild that was not biologically
ours and she taught us that Ifthat was all that we needed to
learn from our time with her,then we got the message loud and
clear.
And the day we needed to learnfrom our time with her then.
Then we got the message loudand clear and the day we had to
release her to be in because wehad loved her so well.
They allowed her to go back tobe with her dog, with her sister
(26:48):
.
That family that her sister wasnow with, which was going to be
permanent placement, foster, toadopt, wanted them both, and
successfully.
We were able to do that.
So we feel like we're a part ofher, her healing and her
history.
But that was one of the hardestdays was for us to say that we
(27:09):
were not going to to the fulltime be her parents.
It was so difficult on both ofus.
We cried and it was about thesame time that we saw the movie
Facing the Giants and there's aline in there where the old man
is praying over the lockers andhe comes into the coach's office
(27:30):
and he's talking to him aboutthe farmers praying for rain.
There were all these farmers.
They were praying for rain, butthere was one farmer who went
out and he prepared his fieldsto receive the rain.
He wasn't just praying for rainand in that moment it leaped
off that screen to me that all Ihad been doing was praying for
(27:53):
a child.
I hadn't been really preparingfor a child and Bart and I came
out of that movie.
We had a long discussion andsaid we need to prepare for the
rain.
We need to prepare that God'sgoing to bring exactly what we
requested.
You know what we're praying forand that's an infant.
So we went out and we tradedvehicles.
(28:14):
I went from a car, a suv, sothat I wouldn't have to lean
over with a car seat and babies,you know all the carrier and
everything and, yeah, we, so wetraded vehicles almost within a
week of of her, you know, goingto the new home.
Then we also got a crib andeverything set up in the baby
(28:36):
room, as if we were saying okay,lord, we now are prepared.
If you want to bless us withthis infant, we are ready.
I got to change the table, Igot.
I mean like we got some clothes, we got some products, we are
diapers, we are ready.
Yeah, I mean, it literally waslike we had to think that way.
Our little hearts were healingbecause we missed her so much
(28:59):
and unbeknownst to us within.
Let's see, the last day with herwas November 12th.
There was a little boy born onNovember 29th and that is my son
today, bryson.
They came to our home on thatfollowing Friday, which was
probably somewhere like aroundthe 2nd or 3rd of December and
(29:21):
told us all about him and saidthere's a little boy that needs
a family and more than likely isgoing to be a foster to adopt.
It may not exactly be what youwanted, but, or you know, say in
your paperwork or whatever thatyou'd be open to having, but
nevertheless he needs a mom anda dad.
We just looked at each otherand we're like we just need to
(29:43):
pray about it.
And she says well, you know,he's in child protective
services at the moment at thehospital in the NICU, but you
know, we've cleared everythingwith them.
They they think that you're agreat candidate and so take the
weekend and let us know.
So, of of course, we went toour parents.
We talked to them about, youknow, the possibility of this
happening.
Everybody was so super excitedand stoked for us.
(30:06):
We woke up the very next morningand I had a name.
I already knew what we werecalling Bryson.
It is Bart Brandon Bryson.
I mean it's Bart Bryson Brandon.
I mean I'll have the O-N on theend.
I said I think I want to callin Bryson, and so at that point
Bart was like, yeah, I like it.
And after that it was like hewas ours, and so we called him
(30:28):
and told him absolutely, Istarted maternity leave that
Monday, got to meet him in theNICU and then and you, you just
know and this is another way ofof of just knowing what God's
got planned for you the nursethat was in the NICU was
somebody that we used to go tochurch with, so a godly believer
, so she was overseeing him inthe NICU.
(30:50):
Then, when we got to thematernity floor, we had other
nurses that we knew that werebelievers that you know were
helping me.
When I got to spend the nightbefore I brought him home to
make sure that I was a good mamaand could get up every two
hours and feed him and changehis diaper, it was just like God
was, like every single doorjust smoothly opened.
And that little boy has been inour care and will be 13 years
(31:14):
old this November.
His adoption was final beforeeven his year birthday and he's
been Bryson to us since webrought him home.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I can't believe the turnaround was that quick.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
It was really that quick.
From November 12th to thatearly December, I mean it was
like three weeks.
I mean we had no idea, andthat's the one thing.
I think that's also really coolabout God, because he already
knew Bryson was in this person'swomb, you know, even though
there were not so greatcircumstances there.
But you know he was there andhe was already coming into the
(31:50):
world and he's like oh, thiscollision is going to happen at
exactly the right time, you know.
I mean, here he is, he's onlythree or four days old and
they're already coming to us andsaying we want him to be with
you and it was.
It's just that was a God thing.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
So how long was it before he could come home?
He came home nine days old.
Nine days old, nine days, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
You know how babies which I learned, of course you
know I didn't have nine monthsto prepare yeah, um, but um,
they will lose a little bit ofweight after their first year.
And because he wasn't nursingthe traditional way and he was
having to be on formula, ofcourse he had to adjust to and
so he lost down below six pounds, and they don't like them to
leave the hospital, at least inhis particular case, under six
(32:43):
pounds.
I saw we met him on Mondaymorning.
I went back Monday night, I wasthere a couple of times on
Tuesday, then Wednesday a coupleof times, and then that night I
stayed overnight.
They let me have a room and himin the room with me, out of the
NICU, and by the time we leftthe hospital he was six pounds
(33:04):
two ounces, and so they knewthen that this was a good thing.
This was a great change.
He was having interaction withus, getting to know us.
You know our smells, everythingthat a child does to begin to
feel comfortable in your space.
And then he fed very well forme.
We did not have any issues.
He's been eating this out ofthe house at home since Still,
(33:27):
oh, my goodness, yes, he's, youknow, 12 years old, 5'7", 155
pounds.
He is going to be one tallyoung man.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
And even though I didn't have anything
biologically to do with him, heis one handsome young man too
yeah, how did he adjust to beingadopted?
You know the circumstancesaround his birth.
He's biracial.
When they came to us and toldus that he was biracial, I
didn't care at that point.
He was a baby that needed a momand I needed, I needed a son,
(34:03):
right, and so it really didn'tbother us.
But that's why she said it'snot exactly what you said you
were looking for.
But you know, babies just needloving homes.
It doesn't matter the color oftheir skin or their background
or anything like that.
So, but funnily enough, we'vealways taken the approach early
(34:23):
on.
We had already made the decisionthat if Bryce would never ask
any questions, that we would beopen.
We also knew that, with himbeing biracial and us being a
white family, it would be kindof obvious that he was different
or that we were different fromhim.
And so he was around four orfive years old.
We were driving in the car welived off 16 in Conover at the
(34:44):
time and we were coming up onOxford School Road and I just
remember he always sat when Iwas driving my vehicle.
He always sat in that, behindthe passenger seat, you know, in
his car seat, so that I couldreach him or talk to him and I
could see him real well in mymirror.
And he said, mommy, he said whydid God make me brown, you
(35:05):
white and daddy red?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Wait, you got to explain why red for Mark.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Let me put it into context To explain that my
husband has a red complexion.
His face is always red.
It's worse when he's in the sun.
It's worse when he's in thewind.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It is a significant.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I guess rosacea technically.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Or when he's coaching an intense baseball or
basketball game.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, it gets even better.
But I thought it was funnybecause he's just looking at our
faces.
And so he said why am I brown?
You're white and daddy's red.
Well, you know, you're neverreally prepared, I guess, for
that question.
So very quickly I was like Lord, what do I say?
And I said well, you know what?
You know what, bunny?
I said God loves color.
I said because if everythingwas the exact same color, we
(36:05):
wouldn't be able to tell eachother apart.
And I said that's why the skyis blue and the clouds are white
, so that we can tell thatthat's a cloud and that's the
sky, that the grass is green andtrees and flowers and things
are different colors, so that wecan tell what kinds of flowers
they are.
And I said he makes all kindsof colors, of people too.
And I said he just loves colorand he was fine with that.
(36:28):
He, he was on his way yeah, wehad no more questions.
Yeah, yeah, and um, about eightor nine years old.
So you know, another four orfive years later because I mean,
again, we had already decided,you know, if he ever asks
questions we're gonna meet himwhere he's at.
And he had had a kind of anunfortunate conversation with
(36:52):
some boys at the Y, used to goto the Y in the summer while we
were working, so so he wouldhave, you know, fun, you know,
sports related things that hecould be doing during the day
and good care, and apparentlysome other.
Funnily enough, some otherchildren had said to him some
boys, that he must have comefrom an orphanage because the
(37:12):
parents were white.
So Bryson was in the bathroomat the time and soaking in the
bath and he told me this becauseI didn't understand why I
didn't want to go back to the Y.
He said, mommy, I just don'twant to go back.
And I said, how come?
And that's when he told me thatthe boys there told me that I
came from an orphanage and so Ikind of put the toilet seat down
(37:33):
and I just sat there with himand I said is it okay if I tell
you the story of how you cameinto this world and how you came
to mommy and daddy's house.
He said, yeah, and I just toldhim as simple as I could, as an
eight year old could understandeight or nine at the time.
I just said you know,sweetheart?
No, I said you were born on the29th.
The social worker came to thehouse and said that this little
(37:55):
boy, this baby, needs a mom anda dad and you're looking to have
a baby.
I said so.
We met you.
Grandma came up to the hospitaland met you.
I got to stay in the hospitalwith you one night and show them
that I could be a good mommyand change your diaper and feed
you and everything.
And I said and then we broughtyou home.
I said you've been with us yourwhole life.
(38:15):
You've never, ever been in anorphanage.
And at that point you could justsee some peace and calm come
over him.
And that's all I had to say.
And then he said where do Blackpeople come from?
Did they come over from Africa?
And then I thought, okay,you've got to understand the
simple, childlike mind and wehad a brief conversation about
(38:36):
you know some of that.
He quickly moved from becausehe just he's just trying to fill
in the gaps, I guess, and wehaven't had a conversation since
that day any further about it.
He has not asked for morespecifics or anything like that,
and he knows he's loved byevery single person in our
(38:57):
family, especially by the Lord.
You know what a blessing toalso know that his life is so
different, because God did puthim in our lives and us in his
life with a divine purpose.
And at seven years old, brysonhimself, of his own free will,
came into my bedroom and saidMommy, I want to ask Jesus into
(39:18):
my heart.
And so I had the privilegewhich was something I had prayed
over his little life for a verylong time that he would come to
know the Lord at a very earlyage and that if there was
anything we could do as parentsto talk truth to him, to teach
him truth, to have him in church, we were dedicating him to the
Lord.
And that was an awesomeprivilege that I had at seven
(39:40):
years old to kneel with himbeside the bed and lead him in
the sinner's prayer.
You know, yeah, see my son thenget baptized, you know, a few
months later and have a separateconversation with the pastor
and make sure that he didunderstand what he had done, and
to now see him figuring outwhat the Christian walk looks
like and going to Christianschool.
He's been in Christian schoolhis entire education life, so
(40:04):
it's been such a blessing.
Yeah, I could not have askedfor this to have been any better
yeah, yeah, now y'all havemoved to Florida.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You're in Ocala.
The school that he's in now isit private?
It is a private christianschool.
It's a private, okay, and abouthow many are in his class he
has um 16 or 17 kids.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I think they just enrolled um as someone new that
had moved to the area, so Ithink they're now 17 in his
class.
Yeah, um, so the entire seventhgrade is 17 kids.
Okay, that's the school.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, it's about the same size as millersville okay,
yeah, that's about the same sizethat I grew up in yeah, so
about 200 kids total and it onlygoes through the eighth grade.
Oh, okay, yeah, very similar tomillersville christian oh, okay
, well, that's not tiny, then ifit only goes up to eighth grade
(40:58):
, it only goes to eighth grade.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
They used to go to 12th but they have some space
issues and, of course, teachers,you know finding teachers yeah.
They haven't had high schoolninth through 12th grade for
several years now, but they'relooking to the future to change
that back grade for severalyears now, but they're looking
to the future to change thatback.
So, yes, after eighth grade wewill have to go look again for
(41:23):
where we should move next.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Now we talked about advice that you would give
parents that are going throughthe same thing, with infertility
issues and just and, like yousaid, the whole in vitro route
is so expensive.
So the advice you gave was togo in with eyes wide open.
Can you expand on that?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah, I do think that you need to.
You know, if this is somethingthat a couple is looking at, you
can't go into it dreamy-eyed,thinking that everything's just
going to be peachy keen, becausethe foster-to-adopt world is
very different and I thinkraising a child that
biologically isn't yours is alsodifferent.
(42:07):
And with me not having anythingto compare it to, I can just
see some minor things.
I would still lay my life downfor him.
I would absolutely do whateverI would need to do for him.
I love him as if he was my own.
I don't look at him and seecolor.
I don't look at him and see hishistory.
(42:28):
I, even though I know his past,I don't.
I don't look at him that way atall.
But I think when you areconsidering going into adoption,
especially this route foster toadopt you do need to be aware
and your heart you just need tobe sure that that's where God
(42:48):
wants you to be and that you'resure of what you can be prepared
for.
It is sad what is happening tothe children.
You know and we didn't feellike we were being called as
parents to go outside of ourcountry, let alone outside of
(43:09):
our state.
I mean, we knew that there werechildren right there in Catawba
County that needed homes.
We were just grateful that Godworked it out the way that he
did.
So I guess that's what I meantwas you just can't go into it
thinking it's going to be all.
What do they say?
Rainbows and unicorns, or?
Speaker 3 (43:26):
whatever.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It's not necessarily a simple, easy process, but when
you're walking in the directionthat God has planned for your
life, he opens doors and hemakes the way more smooth
because you're perfectlycentered right there in his will
.
I guess that's what I wasreally really meaning by that.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
One more thing I want to go back to you, listening to
God.
So a few years ago, you decidedto quit being a physical
therapist assistant and you wentinto massage therapy.
Can you just tell us Because Iwant to wrap this up with you
opening your own business andthe dream that God laid on your
(44:13):
heart.
The dream that God laid on yourheart.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, okay, that's fair.
Yeah, we did talk about that.
I never would have said that I,if anybody had ever called me
that, I'd be like, nah, Iwouldn't have said that I was
entrepreneurial.
Okay, I didn't really even knowfor real what that meant.
Like, what does all that entail?
I began to just think biggerand different.
(44:40):
I had had a car accident when Iwas 19 that got me.
I had to go through physicaltherapy to learn to walk again.
That physical therapist spokesome things into my life and I
felt like God was saying to meat that time maybe it's physical
therapy.
Now you've got something.
I love people, I like beingaround people.
I like teaching people, therapy.
Now you've got something.
I love people, I like beingaround people, I like teaching
(45:01):
people.
Maybe this is a way for me totake my own experience and
really have true empathy forpeople that are going through
rehabilitation.
Of course, I thought it wasgoing to be more of a sports
rehabilitation and, lo andbehold, the Lord went completely
in the opposite direction withthe majority of my career into
skilled nursing and loving onold people.
Um, and I absolutely loved it.
(45:21):
I I told him in school don'tyou dare sending me to a nursing
home.
I don't want to do that.
I'm going to be with, you know,these, these young guys that
have acl injuries and all this.
I'm going to be an outpatienttherapist.
Oh no, no that didn't last verylong.
But all the while, as as I wasaging, as we were, you know,
going through this marriage withBart and then with Bryson
(45:43):
coming along, you began to startthinking about am I going to be
able to continue to do thiskind of physical work that I was
doing as a physical therapyassistant and rehab manager?
I was a director of multiplebuildings.
I mean, I had some God-givenadministrative talents, I guess,
abilities, and it was like am Igoing to be able to continue to
(46:05):
do this for, you know, kind ofindefinitely?
Stroke rehab, neuro rehab wasone of my favorite places in
amputations amputees I lovedoing gait training and those
people were getting bigger andbigger and I was getting older
and older.
And so I just began in in mythoughts, in my heart, to start,
(46:28):
without really asking the Lordlike blatantly coming out, okay,
are you done with me inphysical therapy and do you want
me to do something else?
But I just started to let mythoughts go with where would I
go from here?
And there was a time where Iwas like I said something to my
mom.
I was like you know what I justI've been asked to do a couple
of weddings and I love doingcooking and food and making
(46:51):
people feel happy with food somaybe I should do some sort of
little house that I fix up andit's for bridal parties and they
come in all the bridesmaids,and I have a couple different
menus.
And I mean I was just tellingher all these she's like you're
not such a great idea.
And wow, that would be aone-stop shop for a bride, blah,
blah, blah, making it easier.
And then I was like, so it kindof went away, right, but the
(47:13):
thought of doing something elsedidn't go away.
And then I thought, well, youknow, there's this school in
Newton that teaches you how tobe an esthetician.
I love skin and makeup and hairand doing all that stuff.
Maybe I'll go and look at doingthat.
So I went and interviewed withthe lady there, the instructor,
and then I was when I found outhow much it costs and how much
(47:34):
school it was going to take andI was like I can't do that and
my job and I'd have to take offand we can't afford for me to do
that and Bryson's, you know,still just a baby and I'm like
what am I going to do?
So that kind of was like, okay,that doesn't work well, as God
would have it.
I had found that massagetherapy was a natural way for me
(47:56):
to manage my stress.
Nothing else.
The doctors ever tried with memedication wise because I was
diagnosed with fibromyalgia.
Nothing else was working.
I was just in a fog.
But if I went and had, you know, scheduled systematic massage
every couple of weeks, I reallycould manage my muscle stress
and just my mental stress somuch easier.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Was it like?
Was it lymphatic it?
Speaker 2 (48:20):
is Okay.
Oh, I have deep, deep tissuelike major like, the deeper the
better, just manage my pain andjust that tension that you keep.
And fibro people they know itcan be awful when you're in a
flare.
So I had my therapist had movedaway and I had to find someone,
and so someone had recommendeda lady to me by the name of Joy,
(48:43):
and she said when I startedseeing her, she, she was the
first person to introduce me todoTERRA products.
But she also said I reallythink you'd make a great massage
therapist because you know somuch about the body already.
You would like have a leg up oneverybody.
In school I went back this is asecond career for me, but I
(49:04):
didn't know anything about thebody.
I had to learn anatomy all forthe first time, and so it just
got me thinking.
And so then, of course, Istarted praying and she, she
said I know exactly who you needto go and see.
And so she gave the name andnumber at the maiden school of
massage and said she's, here'swhere it's at blah, blah, blah,
you need to go and talk to her.
(49:25):
So that was another opportunitywhere the Lord was like I, he's
shifting, he's moving me inanother direction, because all
of a sudden the doors wereflying wide open.
I walked into the space and assoon as we met, we both were so
comfortable with each other andshe has a believer background as
(49:45):
well and we just connected onthat level and she was like yes,
you can come be one of mystudents in my night program.
So it was something that I wasgoing to be able to do while
Bryson was small enough to notreally miss me too much and I
would be able to continue to domy full-time job and go to
school at night.
And so I jumped in and, rightbefore he turned five years old,
(50:08):
I enrolled in massage school.
14 months later, I graduated,started my massage career in
2016 while I was working, stillfull-time, and then in 2000 and
late 16, my little part-timebusiness, when I would get home,
was really filling up myschedule and this thought came
(50:31):
into my mind it needs to be abigger space.
I need more space.
So I was working at home.
Bart had, while I was finishingup school, had converted our
garage into a space and and Iwas like I think I really want
to own my own space and I thinkI really do want to do something
for women and I maybe I coulddo a place where they do hair
(50:51):
and facials and nails andmassage.
We could just have this great,you know.
So I just was like, okay, itwas like a little dream, that a
little vision that kind of hadpopped into my, into my spirit.
I don't know how to explain it.
So this is where God startedreally working.
So I went to my friend, jennifer, who had been doing my hair at
(51:13):
this point probably three orfour years, and I said, hey,
jennifer, we were just talking.
And I said how do you?
You know, she talked about, youknow, working from her home.
And she's like well, how do youlike working from home?
She goes, it's kind of hardbecause you don't really get out
and see people.
(51:33):
And you know, I said, yes, andit's kind of lonely at times.
And I said you know, I feellike all I do is come home from
one job and go to the next oneand everything, and I'd really
love to do it full time.
But I'll tell you what I'mthinking about.
Possibly.
I mean, what do you think about, you know?
Do you think women would beinterested in a place where they
can come and have a massage orget their hair done or the nails
or get a facial.
(51:54):
And she was like are you serious?
And I said yeah.
I said I, I really think god'stelling me that I'm that.
That's like the next step.
She said, karen, I have beenpraying for something that would
get me out of my home, but I'vebeen scared to go back to a
shop experience because of thebackbiting and things.
Sometimes salon oh you titions,hairst stylists can be really
(52:17):
ugly.
And she said I just that's theonly reason why I came back and
started working in my home.
I've been here for 13 years butI feel like I can't get out
anywhere and I feel like I'mdoing my work at home when I'm
supposed to be just home, andI'm doing you know home stuff
when I'm at work and and I justwas like well, what do you think
of the idea she goes?
If you do it, she goes, I'll beyour first stylist.
(52:39):
Well, I just sat back in thechair and she finished working.
And then she was like and Iknow somebody who's into real
estate.
You ought to call him.
And so when she told me who itwas cause she does his hair I'm
like, oh my gosh, that's adistant cousin.
I didn't know he did realestate.
I thought he was a photographer.
I mean, it was like a shoe blowin my mind.
Well, we called him right awayand he starts looking at
(53:00):
buildings and the next thing Iknow he is introducing me to a
florist building in downtownConover at 505 First Avenue
South.
We went and looked at it but assoon as I walked through the
door, lisa, it was like vision.
I was like, oh, this will bethe lobby.
We can turn that into my roomUpstairs.
Those bedrooms will be massagerooms.
(53:21):
That room right there will beperfect for an esthetician or
someone who does, you know, justmakeup and you know, hair updos
or whatever.
And then this other side, wherehe was doing his plants and
some of his, his home interiors.
That'll be great for a salon.
I can see at least three chairsand tape and mirrors and this
(53:42):
back part, it could be nails.
I mean this will be the publicbathroom.
I could just see it all amongstthe clutter and I walked out of
that place and I'm like, I knowit's a mess, but oh my gosh, I
can see it.
I can just see it.
And he was like, well, what doyou want to do?
And I'm like, okay.
Well, I guess I need to startworking really seriously on
(54:04):
financing.
So let me figure it out.
It was, it was coming up whereI was like I don't, I don't know
what I'm going to do.
At the time I, who I was bankingwith, did not want to take a
risk and I was like, okay, lord,you've brought me this far.
And now that there's a shutdoor, I don't understand.
I would go by, I would make anexcuse to go to cookout, get a
(54:28):
milkshake, just so I can comeback home and drive by the
building and look at thebuilding.
Well, this one particular timeI drove by and it had a pending
sign on it.
Oh, that's your heart.
I'm like what happened?
I did, I was like what happened, like what?
And I, I called him and I waslike you know what's going on?
(54:50):
He said I don't know.
And he's like I want there'snothing out there, saying
there's anything going on.
Let me try to call the realtorfor him.
Well, he never could get ananswer back from him.
Well, the next day that I wentby, the sign was gone,
completely out of the yard.
So I pull in and I literally inthe parking lot, and for those
of you that might be listening.
If you know, downtown Conoverand where Unseen Hand is at
(55:12):
right now, I literally pulled upto that fence where my nose of
my car was facing the peak ofthat side of the building.
I just, I mean, I began to havethis massive, out loud
conversation with God, like Ithought.
You said that this is what Iwas supposed to do and I'm, you
know, I have prayed, I know thisis what you're, but I don't
(55:33):
know where the money's comingfrom.
God, I need you to breakthrough on my behalf, because if
this is what you want, you'regoing to have to pay for the
bill, because I don't know howI'm going to get the money.
I mean, I just was going on andI don't understand why it's not
got for sale, signing itanymore, you know, and if this
isn't the place, then you'rejust going to have to show me
what is.
I mean, I just poured my heartout and when I left there, it
(55:57):
was as if I because I had justleft myself, you know, all out
there for the Lord peace justbegan to come over me and I, I
just was like okay, and I didn'tgo back by.
I waited, waited.
It had been about two weeks andI was like I want a milkshake,
(56:17):
I'm going to go by.
And so I went and got me avanilla milkshake and I came
back.
I came back by and lo andbehold, there was a new realtor
sign, brand new company realtorsign, in the yard.
Well, I was so stinking excited.
I called him up and I'm like,oh my gosh, you know there's a
sign and it's this person.
He's like, ok, I'll call her.
(56:45):
And when he did, he found outthat you know they'd already
made some things were happeningwith the gentleman and his
nephew was managing all of hiscare now and they were trying to
do they were putting it back onthe market because I had been
the only person to ever come andsee the space and she already
had an estate sale set up.
The estate sale company wasinterested in the house you know
(57:08):
the building itself, and butshe was going to be auctioning
everything out of his house,blah, blah, blah.
And they already had threepeople set up to look at it and
he went to bat for me and he waslike she was literally ready to
put in an offer.
Yeah, and when all this wentdown and she, the the other
(57:28):
realtor lady called the nephewand he said that's right, she
was the only one that ever cameand saw it.
So you canceled thoseappointments, she can have it.
And after that the price camedown by 30,000.
I mean, I had a privatefinancial partner who said I
want you to have your dream, Iwant this to come to fruition
(57:49):
for you.
You're an amazing therapist andI want to help you.
And so we we went to anattorney.
I set up my LLC so that shecould give the money to the LLC
as the you know financer, andthen I made my payments to her
and I mean, the rest is history.
We gutted the place.
I sunk everything I had into it, all my 401k and and anything I
(58:11):
had left over went into the thetruly of Unseen Hand Salon, spa
and Wellness.
It's beautiful.
Here we are today and thatbuilding.
A lot of love went into thatbuilding and that place was
redeemed.
It was truly set aside for usto do what we're doing there.
(58:32):
For us to do what we're doingthere.
And I know some people have goneby my sign and probably thought
they're a palm reader in therebecause of the hand on the sign.
But no, no, it's the unseenhand.
You know of the Lord who worksthrough us and the women that
work there who are serviceproviders.
They're independent contractors, they just rent space for me,
(58:53):
but we're like one big happyfamily.
They all love the Lord.
Um, you know, and so it's a.
When you walk into that spaceand you see unseen hand on the
wall, almost every person islike there's something different
about this place and it isbecause it was prayed over.
It was God's blessing.
He redeemed that building forwhat it was being used for
(59:15):
before and it wasn't honoringhim to now a space that was
going to honor him at every turn.
So that was probably one of thehardest decisions when thinking
about coming to florida wasleaving my full-time.
You know expectation there atunseen hand.
I still own it.
Yeah, and it will.
It will stay in my hands aslong as the Lord says, because
(59:38):
you know the work he startedthere has has been good, the
community has accepted us, andso and then you know the other
blessing was above where thesalon is is there's a classroom.
So I automatically had a placewhere I could teach my natural
solutions classes with doTERRA,automatically had a place where
I could teach my naturalsolutions classes with doTERRA.
I mean he set everything up forme to be really successful and
(01:00:01):
he's brought some amazing peopleinto my life.
It's been an adventure.
Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Hey, I appreciate you sharing your story and getting.
You're very welcome and I knowit's hard.
I know it's hard talking aboutsome of this and thank you for
opening up your life, your story, and I know that you've just
been a help to people out there.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Well, that's all I want to be is, you know, my
testimony to bring encouragementto someone else's life that may
have walked in a few of thoseplaces that I've walked and just
know that you know God has.
Of those places that I'vewalked and just know that you
know God has the very best planfor us.
We just have to stay close,stay in the word, stay in
constant communication with himand he will lead you if you let
(01:00:46):
him.
Thank you, elisa.
Thank you for being such agreat friend and loving on my
boy when our boys play balltogether.
Loving on my boy when our boysplay ball together.
Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Oh gosh, I miss them, I miss them all playing
together.
Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
I know I do too, but they do grow up, all right, well
thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Thank you, until next time.
Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
Beyond Existing.
Many thanks to my guests andalso to Crystal Webb and her
middle school jazz band forsupplying the music when the
Saints come marching in.
If there's something that youwould like to share with me or a
topic that you would like tohear discussed, there's a link
(01:01:28):
in the show's description, sojust send me a text.
Please share the show withfriends and family to help grow
the podcast and be sure tofollow wherever you listen to
podcasts.
Hi and welcome back to another episode of Beyond
Existing.
I have a guest today who is atrue inspiration.
She is a multi-business owner,but more than that, she is a
strong believer in Jesus Christ.
She constantly seeks his adviceand has become an awesome
(00:37):
listener to his guidance.
Karen, I know that people whohave been Christians their
entire lives I'm talking like 60plus years they have expressed
to me that they question ifGod's really talking to them and
I just you've shared with mejust so many examples of how you
(00:58):
listen to him and just you knowin this interview.
I just want you to start offjust sharing.
How do you know?
It's the Spirit Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Okay, well, thank you for having me on your podcast.
This is truly an honor, andthank you for your friendship.
Thank you, I'm grateful forthis opportunity to share my
testimony.
I got saved, asked the Lord,jesus Christ, into my heart when
I was 11 years old.
I was raised in a Christianhome and brought up in church.
(01:31):
Our denomination is Baptist, soI came to know the Lord at a
very early age.
Discipleship is a real thingand I had a lot of godly people,
a lot of godly counsel thatsurrounded my young life.
Not to say that I was perfectI'm not going that way but I
just had a lot of people whospoke truth into my life.
(01:52):
I began to learn that, in orderto discern what were my thoughts
from, god's thoughts wasfiltered through scripture.
If you're not constantly inscripture or hearing the word of
God, it's going to be a littlemore difficult for you to really
discern.
Is this God talking to me or isthis a personal thought of my
(02:14):
own?
Has my dream, you know, kind ofinterfered with his voice?
And I will tell you one of thetried and trues.
Here I am at 54 years old now,having walked with the Lord this
long, I just you have such apeace when you get that
confirmation from Scripture andjust through your prayer time
(02:37):
with the Lord, and you begin tosee things in your life fall
into place according to whatyour thoughts and that voice
inside you was saying.
I've never heard the Lord perse speak audibly to me.
I've never had a moment likethat, but there have been some
very impressionable times in mylife where it was quite obvious
(02:59):
that he was speaking to me andof course then there's no
mistaking that, because theneverything just lines up and you
just know.
But yes, peace is probably.
Peace amidst a storm, amidstall kinds of circumstances, is
probably one of the ways that Ihave been able to know for sure
that it was him speaking to me.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yeah, yeah, and that impression it's like no other
impression.
I can't describe it because youdon't hear it, but you just
feel it, you hear it and youfeel it.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Yeah, there's no voice, but you hear it.
I really can't describe it.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
And it just feels so clear.
It's not murky in any way,shape or form.
Right, yeah, that's right, andthose are wonderful times when
we're that close to the Lordthat we really feel him speaking
to us like that.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
I know you shared with me that before you met your
husband Bart, you were marriedbefore.
I was Before you met yourhusband Bart.
You were married before.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I was.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I just want you to share with people just kind of
what you went through, becauseyou said that you came from a
very strong Christian family.
I did.
You grew up in church, you knowwe're not supposed to get
divorced.
If we grew up that way, Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, I was 19 when I him um, and 21 when we got
married.
He was 22.
We did meet at church, butunbeknownst to me, and of course
we had this amazing wedding,very.
We took communion together justjust during our, our ceremony.
I mean this I thought I wastruly marrying my soulmate.
(04:45):
I had never been with any otherman and so I just really
thought that this was the one.
Now I'm going to back up and say, however, in those couple of
years of courtship, there weresome times where I kind of
questioned some things, therewere some red flags which,
(05:05):
looking back now as a maturebeliever and as a young believer
, then that was the Holy Spirit,I believe, kind of saying,
karen, are you sure about this?
Because I saw some things backthen, sensed some things back
then that I just kind of turneda blind eye to.
I was like no, no, no, no, no,I'm just overreacting.
Some things back then that Ijust kind of turned a blind eye
(05:26):
to, I was like no, no, no, no,no, that's I'm just overreacting
, I'm being, you know,possessive or you know, jealousy
or whatever, and I just need toget control of that because he
loves me.
And so, you know, we gotmarried in 1990 and
unfortunately went through.
He had an affair about not evenbefore we were married three
(05:46):
years.
Then I struck, we got, we stayedtogether, we went through
Christian counseling and wemoved away and we began to want
to plan to have a family.
And that was when I learnedthat I had some infertility
issues and it wasn't him, it wasme.
We did some we couldn't do invitro.
That was too expensive where wewere financially as a young
(06:09):
married couple.
That was not conducive, um.
So I went through somesurgeries um to find out exactly
what was going on, diagnosedwith endometriosis, um, and they
said that I was, you know,pretty much they weren't really
sure how I was going to getpregnant.
I did get pregnant shortlyafter we went through all the
(06:31):
counseling and kind of renewedour vows and that pregnancy
failed within the first eightweeks.
So they're not really sure ifthat was a blighted ovum or a
true pregnancy, but nonethelessI ended up in the hospital with
a DNC and then the next time waswhen we actually sought
(06:51):
assistance and I did six monthsof some shots that put me into
chemically induced menopause andI was successfully able to get
pregnant the normal way within amonth or two after coming off
with those shots and thatpregnancy made it to the first
trimester.
And then, right there betweenthat 12th and 13th week, I also
(07:14):
miscarried again, and I willtell you, during that
miscarriage, in the hospitalroom, I remember vividly folks
coming in and having to takecare of me, and one person in
particular from the phlebotomydepartment to take blood just
said how come you're so strong?
And I just literally said tothem I don't know why God
(07:37):
allowed this to happen, but Iknow he's in control and I just
don't know how people go throughsomething this devastating
without him.
So even then, when my faith wasbeing tested, I knew that he
was with me.
I just didn't understand,because that was the one thing
that I longed for and I thinkmaybe in some ways I longed for
(07:58):
it, maybe for the wrong reasons.
You know, post, post adultery,post, you know difficulties in
marriage and then finding lovefor one another again, going
through counseling and thinkingthat you're on the road to
recovery.
Sometimes you think a baby'sgoing to solve it or it's going
to help.
Yeah, I knew he desired to havea family.
I wanted to have a family andit just was not definitely
(08:23):
looked like it was not going tohappen the natural way and sadly
we moved to South Carolinatogether about 10 years into
marriage, went to a infertilityclinic and was chosen for a
study and they were going tobasically, if I would agree to
be in the study, or if we wouldagree to be in the study, I
(08:44):
could get an in vitro for freeand just to be a part of the
study.
I wouldn't know if I wasgetting the study medications,
but I would be able to have anin vitro.
And he said no, and I knew thenthat something else was up and
unfortunately some of thosevices that he was dealing with
(09:05):
had reared their ugly head again, and so the writing was kind of
on the wall that that marriagehad definitely gone awry and
unfaithfulness.
It just leads to so muchmistrust and the rejection as a
woman that that causes you tofeel I just, I just, I just
couldn't do it any longer.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So I plus, plus, plus , really on the miscarriage,
absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
There was a lot of emotional hurt that that, that I
don't blame on him.
I made choices too.
As far as you know, decisionsthat I made in my life could
have contributed, may havecontributed to where I ended up,
but I know that God, evendespite he, was there, he was
directing, he was guiding.
(09:53):
He never left my side.
Gratefully, he is a God ofsecond chances.
So when I came home after thatand just needed the support and
love of my family back inHickory when I moved back from
Charleston, that was the bestdecision I could have made.
And when I was in my healingjourney, just prior to my
divorce being final, in walkedBart Grant.
(10:16):
So we met at church and Godjust did something in my heart
that I didn't think would everhappen at least not that quick
and within a couple of years wewere married in 2004.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
So how old were you when you had the miscarriage?
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I was the first miscarriage, I would have been
25, 26, I was almost.
I just turned 29 with thesecond one okay, and then how
much long?
Speaker 3 (10:50):
how long was it before you met bart um, I met
bart when I was 33 and we gotmarried, or got married when we
were coming up on 35 so you guys, you dated, but due to north
carolina divorce laws for thosethat don't know if you are
(11:12):
separated, it takes one year,yep, for a divorce to be final
yep, well, and it had been thatlong.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
It had definitely been that long.
Okay, it had.
I was probably already past theyear mark when I met Bart.
It's just the finalization ofthe paperwork and getting and
getting my ex-husband at thetime to sign everything.
I but he basically would notmake the first move and I had to
do it and so it was a.
It was really more semantics,paperwork-wise, and when it was
(11:44):
final in June of 2002, westarted dating and then married
in June of 2004.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Now did Bart know all about your infertility issues
before he did?
Speaker 2 (11:59):
He did.
And I kind of thought that Godwas filling in the gaps because
Bart, when we met, he had been,he was a young Christian, he was
33 years old, but he was ayoung Christian.
He had just been saved, only acouple of years prior to us
meeting, late 2001, early 2002.
And he had gotten savedsometime late, I think it was
(12:19):
1999.
And prior to his salvation,Bart had been in a relationship
and had a child.
They never married, but theyhad a child together and so
Brandon was very much a part ofhis life, and so I do have a
stepson, and Brandon will be 30this year, and so when we
started dating, it was kind of apackage deal for me with him
(12:43):
and so I kind of thought God wasfilling it in like, okay, well,
you know, if this man is theone that you're going to be with
, then he already has a child,so at least you're going to
experience some level ofmotherhood, Um and uh.
So but yes, I mean Bart knewall about infertility struggles,
(13:03):
was very supportive.
We did almost well, I wouldn'tsay immediately, but within the
first year or so really startedtrying ourselves because I
thought, well, OK, it didn'twork with someone else, Maybe
it's because God had thatplanned but unfortunately on our
own we could not do that.
I did go to the REACH clinic inAsheville, North Carolina,
(13:26):
worked with them and I hadalready been through so much
previous stimulation of myovaries and stuff chemically.
They basically said you know,we can try a couple of
inseminations but you'reprobably going to need donor
eggs to even do it in vitro.
I did approach my sisterbecause obviously you know I
(13:47):
would love for there to havebeen our you know our DNA in
that child.
And although you know, at thetime the idea of that was
something we were both open to,in the end it wasn't something
that they could truly live with,knowing that I might have
carried a child thatbiologically, technically,
(14:08):
wasn't mine.
So that did not work out, thatwasn't an option, but it would
have been a real stretch for usas well.
You know, financially, how thatindustry puts such a financial
strain on young families.
To do in vitro these days it'sjust ridiculous because that's
(14:28):
not something that insurancehelps pay for.
Yeah, you know.
So we, we just didn't go thatroute and by then I began to
just sort of again like thewriting on the wall, I'm banging
my head against a door that isobviously not meant to be open
for me.
So at the age of 41, I wentback to my gynecologist, who had
(14:49):
been so great through the years, and she said, karen, we've got
mounds of documentation thatwill support the hysterectomy
whenever you're ready.
And I said I'm, I'm ready.
Obviously, this is not part ofGod's plan for me, but I don't
want to suffer month to month,and so that was something that
was a very easy decision to make, but yet emotionally difficult,
(15:13):
because I can remember layingthere on that stretcher, knowing
what I was getting ready to gointo that operating room for,
and the anesthesiologist cameout and he was like why are you
crying, are you OK?
And the anesthesiologist cameout and he was like why are you
crying, are you okay?
And I was like, yeah, I'm justrealizing that the thoughts, the
dreams of having my own childend today Because I won't have
(15:36):
the equipment anymore and it wasjust my heart and my head
getting on the same page withthat finality was a little bit
tough.
But when I look back on it now,having been, you know, 13, 14
years ago, it was the bestdecision for my health that I
could have made and it led tosuch a beautiful story now, yeah
(15:59):
, yeah, I know you want me toget into so I do have a question
how did you feel when you toldthe doctor I'm ready?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
When those words came out of your mouth I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Again, I think that I just was tired.
I was tired of holding on to adream that it was never going to
come to fruition, and I was atpeace with the decision.
I knew that it was the rightdecision for me.
It was just not until the veryday of surgery that my heart
(16:35):
truly had to say goodbye to thatpart of my past and move on,
you know, know, with a newfuture, and one that would
include never, ever,experiencing feeling a child
growing inside of me, knowingthat there's a child on this
earth that is part of me.
(16:58):
Instead, jesus is taking careof my babies.
Yes, and and I know I'll- seethem one day.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
You will, you definitely will, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
But he had another plan and gratefully, you know,
Bart was on the same page withme in all of that.
Another reason to be thankfulfor second chances.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yes, another.
So you guys, you couldn'tafford private adoption.
So what route did you take?
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah, private adoption is about as big a money
racket as in vitro can be forfamilies and we just weren't in
that place in our lives and,like I said, we were in our 40s
and after we did some healingfrom the hysterectomy and I kind
of, you know, start to thinkabout, ok, how do we do this
different?
What does this look like forour family and how can I
(17:54):
experience being a mom truly,being the only mom to a child,
not a step mom or with partialresponsibilities, to minor
responsibilities?
You know, bart and I juststarted to pray about it and
just trying to look for otheroptions and we found family
(18:14):
builders right there in CatawbaCounty.
We went and were interviewedand talked through what that
looked like.
We were not looking for truefoster care, we were looking to
do adoption and they at thattime called it the Foster to
Adopt program.
So we took the MAP classes, wedid everything we needed to do
(18:37):
to technically be foster parentsand then we made the book and
everything and depending on whatwould kind of come case by case
, then if we were a good fit,then they would contact us and
that's kind of.
We just had to leave itliterally in God's hands and we
finished up all of that in.
(18:57):
About that was about a six weekprogram that you had to do these
mandatory classes and then thehome visit, and while that kind
of coincided with us selling ourclasses and then the home visit
, and well, that kind ofcoincided with us selling our
home and building our home inconover.
And so she came, the socialworker came and interviewed us
while we were living with myparents and she knew it was
(19:18):
temporary because she could seethem working.
We were living with my parentsbecause my parents were on the
land that was right there nearour land, and so she could see
that our house was in progress,and so she just kept us in the
system and in the loop and cameand did her monthly visits just
as if she was in our home, sothat when it came time for us to
move into our home withcertificate of occupancy, she
(19:42):
would then be able to come inand actually do our legitimate
physical home study.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Well, what are some things they were looking at or
looking for?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, obviously they're looking for the safety
of a child.
Yeah, they want to know ourmedications.
They wanted to know legalbackground, as far as you know,
did we have?
Is there any abuse in ourfamily?
I mean, they're just lookingfor all kinds of things that
would give them an indication ofwhether or not you're a good
(20:15):
family for them to safely placea child in your care, because at
the time you know it's justfostering You're not promised
adoption but it's fostering.
So they're looking for thosekinds of things.
They knew that we didn't needthe money.
It wasn't a financial reasonwhy we were doing it.
We had a clean home, we werefree from major medications and
(20:37):
the ones that we took we put ina lockbox, just like they asked
for.
Did we set up our home withchild locks and on the cabinets
and on the doors and in theplugs, and I mean all the things
.
Could we safely care for achild?
And then they're looking foryour mental stability too.
They do look at your finances.
They do make sure that you havea stable job.
(20:58):
I mean just a lot.
They're looking at you as afull family picture, but it all
definitely comes down to thesafety of the child and can you
as a full family picture.
But it all, it all definitelycomes down to the safety of a
child and can you?
Can you guide a child duringthe time that they're entrusted
to your care?
So I hope that kind of answersthat.
Oh yeah yeah, that was awonderful explanation so we had
moved into our home in februaryof 2009.
(21:21):
She came and did the studyimmediately and so that we would
be eligible, and I got a callat work out of the blue on march
the 2nd saying we've got alittle situation.
We only need you for aboutthree days till we can find this
young lady more of a permanentfoster situation.
(21:44):
So we just need you for threedays.
And I'm like, okay, give me thedetails.
Like I'm excited, but you don'tgive me the details.
Well, she's five years old, sheis in foster care because the
father sexually molested her andher sister.
And I was like, oh, okay, sothis is like now.
We're like all the stuff thatwe talked about in our foster
(22:05):
classes was like it just reallydoes happen and they've been
removed from his care and beenin foster care, but
unfortunately, she is acting outsome of the touching on her
sister.
And I'm like what?
I just was like, okay, allright, wait a minute.
(22:28):
And they're like but, karen, wejust need you for about three
days, cause we know thatfostering, you know, especially
an older child was notnecessarily what you wanted, but
we just really we needsomething quick, like tonight.
So of course, I call Bart.
He's like, yeah, I mean let'sdo it.
I mean obviously, obviously.
And I'm like it's only forthree days and I mean we'll just
(22:49):
, we'll see how this goes.
And, uh, he'll kind of give usa feel for you know what to
expect in the future.
I called my employer andthey're like absolutely, we
support you.
Go ahead and leave, go.
And I went straight to DSS fromwork, met there the current
foster mom, the whole socialwork team, the police, I mean
whoever else was there.
I just remember it being a bigroom full of people and this
(23:12):
little girl was sitting besideus and she kept coming over and
she was like, do you have anygum?
And she just was talking to meand you know, she on my lap down
the.
You know I was like, okay, I'mtrying to listen to the
conversation, but all the wholetime I'm like you, precious,
precious little girl, I you'regoing to be taken care of, baby,
(23:33):
you're going to be safe at ourhouse.
We, we literally left fromthere.
I didn't have really everythingthat I needed.
Um, I did have a car seat,praise god.
Um, because she was still smallenough and young enough that
needed to be in a car seat andwe just proceeded to the house.
It was kind of like, ok, you'vegot this child and she had just
(23:53):
the clothes on her back in asmall little bag.
I mean it was really pretty sad.
But you know what?
God left her in our care fornine months, eight nine months.
He was with us through November12th and the first couple of
months were kind of ugly, to thepoint where I'm on the phone
with a social worker going okay,I don't know that I can do this
(24:14):
Like she's screaming, she'sthrowing clothes, she's temper
tantruming and stuff, and you'retelling me I can't spank, I
can't put her in the corner, Ican't.
You know like what am Isupposed to do?
Because everything that I wastaught with discipline was what
they tell you you can't do.
I just went into the room.
I'll never forget this one time.
(24:39):
I went into the room and I justI grabbed her, kind of held her
like in a kind of cradled likea baby, but I just squeezed her
super tight, um.
So when I say grabbed her,that's what I mean.
I'm like squeezing her, likeholding her close to me, so her
her head and hair I can evenvisualize it now is in my right
arm and her legs are off to myleft side.
I'm sitting on the edge of thebed and I'm rocking back and
forth and I am holding herreally tight.
(25:01):
She's kicking, she's screaming,crying and just like oh you
know, she's just yelling allkinds of stuff Like I don't want
you to leave me alone.
And all I said to her is asquietly as I could and I won't
say her name on here, just to becareful, but I said her name on
here, for you know, just for tobe careful but I said her name
(25:21):
and I said there's nothing youcan do that's going to make me
stop loving you.
And it was like this child justmelted in my arms and that was
our turning point.
Was she a?
perfect kid after that.
No, that was.
That was the point that she waslike I have boundaries and but
there's not like all of this, Idon't have to do this.
(25:42):
She still loves me and thingsgot so much better from there
and, of course, we had her inchurch and she was loving it.
We found out she loved musicand she just became the
brightest little girl.
She went from being thisfearful, more shy and lashing
out kind of girl to a reallyloving little girl.
(26:02):
She was more gentle with ourpets.
We had the two dogs at the timeand she was more gentle with
them.
She became fun and loving andit was like we saw a shift
completely in her littlepersonality and we started
counseling, because that'smandatory in some cases for them
to have to go to counseling.
Things were going so well inthat fostering that Bart and I
(26:26):
realized that we could love achild that was not biologically
ours and she taught us that Ifthat was all that we needed to
learn from our time with her,then we got the message loud and
clear.
And the day we needed to learnfrom our time with her then.
Then we got the message loudand clear and the day we had to
release her to be in because wehad loved her so well.
They allowed her to go back tobe with her dog, with her sister
(26:48):
.
That family that her sister wasnow with, which was going to be
permanent placement, foster, toadopt, wanted them both, and
successfully.
We were able to do that.
So we feel like we're a part ofher, her healing and her
history.
But that was one of the hardestdays was for us to say that we
(27:09):
were not going to to the fulltime be her parents.
It was so difficult on both ofus.
We cried and it was about thesame time that we saw the movie
Facing the Giants and there's aline in there where the old man
is praying over the lockers andhe comes into the coach's office
(27:30):
and he's talking to him aboutthe farmers praying for rain.
There were all these farmers.
They were praying for rain, butthere was one farmer who went
out and he prepared his fieldsto receive the rain.
He wasn't just praying for rainand in that moment it leaped
off that screen to me that all Ihad been doing was praying for
(27:53):
a child.
I hadn't been really preparingfor a child and Bart and I came
out of that movie.
We had a long discussion andsaid we need to prepare for the
rain.
We need to prepare that God'sgoing to bring exactly what we
requested.
You know what we're praying forand that's an infant.
So we went out and we tradedvehicles.
(28:14):
I went from a car, a suv, sothat I wouldn't have to lean
over with a car seat and babies,you know all the carrier and
everything and, yeah, we, so wetraded vehicles almost within a
week of of her, you know, goingto the new home.
Then we also got a crib andeverything set up in the baby
(28:36):
room, as if we were saying okay,lord, we now are prepared.
If you want to bless us withthis infant, we are ready.
I got to change the table, Igot.
I mean like we got some clothes, we got some products, we are
diapers, we are ready.
Yeah, I mean, it literally waslike we had to think that way.
Our little hearts were healingbecause we missed her so much
(28:59):
and unbeknownst to us within.
Let's see, the last day with herwas November 12th.
There was a little boy born onNovember 29th and that is my son
today, bryson.
They came to our home on thatfollowing Friday, which was
probably somewhere like aroundthe 2nd or 3rd of December and
(29:21):
told us all about him and saidthere's a little boy that needs
a family and more than likely isgoing to be a foster to adopt.
It may not exactly be what youwanted, but, or you know, say in
your paperwork or whatever thatyou'd be open to having, but
nevertheless he needs a mom anda dad.
We just looked at each otherand we're like we just need to
(29:43):
pray about it.
And she says well, you know,he's in child protective
services at the moment at thehospital in the NICU, but you
know, we've cleared everythingwith them.
They they think that you're agreat candidate and so take the
weekend and let us know.
So, of of course, we went toour parents.
We talked to them about, youknow, the possibility of this
happening.
Everybody was so super excitedand stoked for us.
(30:06):
We woke up the very next morningand I had a name.
I already knew what we werecalling Bryson.
It is Bart Brandon Bryson.
I mean it's Bart Bryson Brandon.
I mean I'll have the O-N on theend.
I said I think I want to callin Bryson, and so at that point
Bart was like, yeah, I like it.
And after that it was like hewas ours, and so we called him
(30:28):
and told him absolutely, Istarted maternity leave that
Monday, got to meet him in theNICU and then and you, you just
know and this is another way ofof of just knowing what God's
got planned for you the nursethat was in the NICU was
somebody that we used to go tochurch with, so a godly believer
, so she was overseeing him inthe NICU.
(30:50):
Then, when we got to thematernity floor, we had other
nurses that we knew that werebelievers that you know were
helping me.
When I got to spend the nightbefore I brought him home to
make sure that I was a good mamaand could get up every two
hours and feed him and changehis diaper, it was just like God
was, like every single doorjust smoothly opened.
And that little boy has been inour care and will be 13 years
(31:14):
old this November.
His adoption was final beforeeven his year birthday and he's
been Bryson to us since webrought him home.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
I can't believe the turnaround was that quick.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
It was really that quick.
From November 12th to thatearly December, I mean it was
like three weeks.
I mean we had no idea, andthat's the one thing.
I think that's also really coolabout God, because he already
knew Bryson was in this person'swomb, you know, even though
there were not so greatcircumstances there.
But you know he was there andhe was already coming into the
(31:50):
world and he's like oh, thiscollision is going to happen at
exactly the right time, you know.
I mean, here he is, he's onlythree or four days old and
they're already coming to us andsaying we want him to be with
you and it was.
It's just that was a God thing.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
So how long was it before he could come home?
He came home nine days old.
Nine days old, nine days, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
You know how babies which I learned, of course you
know I didn't have nine monthsto prepare yeah, um, but um,
they will lose a little bit ofweight after their first year.
And because he wasn't nursingthe traditional way and he was
having to be on formula, ofcourse he had to adjust to and
so he lost down below six pounds, and they don't like them to
leave the hospital, at least inhis particular case, under six
(32:43):
pounds.
I saw we met him on Mondaymorning.
I went back Monday night, I wasthere a couple of times on
Tuesday, then Wednesday a coupleof times, and then that night I
stayed overnight.
They let me have a room and himin the room with me, out of the
NICU, and by the time we leftthe hospital he was six pounds
(33:04):
two ounces, and so they knewthen that this was a good thing.
This was a great change.
He was having interaction withus, getting to know us.
You know our smells, everythingthat a child does to begin to
feel comfortable in your space.
And then he fed very well forme.
We did not have any issues.
He's been eating this out ofthe house at home since Still,
(33:27):
oh, my goodness, yes, he's, youknow, 12 years old, 5'7", 155
pounds.
He is going to be one tallyoung man.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
And even though I didn't have anything
biologically to do with him, heis one handsome young man too
yeah, how did he adjust to beingadopted?
You know the circumstancesaround his birth.
He's biracial.
When they came to us and toldus that he was biracial, I
didn't care at that point.
He was a baby that needed a momand I needed, I needed a son,
(34:03):
right, and so it really didn'tbother us.
But that's why she said it'snot exactly what you said you
were looking for.
But you know, babies just needloving homes.
It doesn't matter the color oftheir skin or their background
or anything like that.
So, but funnily enough, we'vealways taken the approach early
(34:23):
on.
We had already made the decisionthat if Bryce would never ask
any questions, that we would beopen.
We also knew that, with himbeing biracial and us being a
white family, it would be kindof obvious that he was different
or that we were different fromhim.
And so he was around four orfive years old.
We were driving in the car welived off 16 in Conover at the
(34:44):
time and we were coming up onOxford School Road and I just
remember he always sat when Iwas driving my vehicle.
He always sat in that, behindthe passenger seat, you know, in
his car seat, so that I couldreach him or talk to him and I
could see him real well in mymirror.
And he said, mommy, he said whydid God make me brown, you
(35:05):
white and daddy red?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Wait, you got to explain why red for Mark.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Let me put it into context To explain that my
husband has a red complexion.
His face is always red.
It's worse when he's in the sun.
It's worse when he's in thewind.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
It is a significant.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
I guess rosacea technically.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Or when he's coaching an intense baseball or
basketball game.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, it gets even better.
But I thought it was funnybecause he's just looking at our
faces.
And so he said why am I brown?
You're white and daddy's red.
Well, you know, you're neverreally prepared, I guess, for
that question.
So very quickly I was like Lord, what do I say?
And I said well, you know what?
You know what, bunny?
I said God loves color.
I said because if everythingwas the exact same color, we
(36:05):
wouldn't be able to tell eachother apart.
And I said that's why the skyis blue and the clouds are white
, so that we can tell thatthat's a cloud and that's the
sky, that the grass is green andtrees and flowers and things
are different colors, so that wecan tell what kinds of flowers
they are.
And I said he makes all kindsof colors, of people too.
And I said he just loves colorand he was fine with that.
(36:28):
He, he was on his way yeah, wehad no more questions.
Yeah, yeah, and um, about eightor nine years old.
So you know, another four orfive years later because I mean,
again, we had already decided,you know, if he ever asks
questions we're gonna meet himwhere he's at.
And he had had a kind of anunfortunate conversation with
(36:52):
some boys at the Y, used to goto the Y in the summer while we
were working, so so he wouldhave, you know, fun, you know,
sports related things that hecould be doing during the day
and good care, and apparentlysome other.
Funnily enough, some otherchildren had said to him some
boys, that he must have comefrom an orphanage because the
(37:12):
parents were white.
So Bryson was in the bathroomat the time and soaking in the
bath and he told me this becauseI didn't understand why I
didn't want to go back to the Y.
He said, mommy, I just don'twant to go back.
And I said, how come?
And that's when he told me thatthe boys there told me that I
came from an orphanage and so Ikind of put the toilet seat down
(37:33):
and I just sat there with himand I said is it okay if I tell
you the story of how you cameinto this world and how you came
to mommy and daddy's house.
He said, yeah, and I just toldhim as simple as I could, as an
eight year old could understandeight or nine at the time.
I just said you know,sweetheart?
No, I said you were born on the29th.
The social worker came to thehouse and said that this little
(37:55):
boy, this baby, needs a mom anda dad and you're looking to have
a baby.
I said so.
We met you.
Grandma came up to the hospitaland met you.
I got to stay in the hospitalwith you one night and show them
that I could be a good mommyand change your diaper and feed
you and everything.
And I said and then we broughtyou home.
I said you've been with us yourwhole life.
(38:15):
You've never, ever been in anorphanage.
And at that point you could justsee some peace and calm come
over him.
And that's all I had to say.
And then he said where do Blackpeople come from?
Did they come over from Africa?
And then I thought, okay,you've got to understand the
simple, childlike mind and wehad a brief conversation about
(38:36):
you know some of that.
He quickly moved from becausehe just he's just trying to fill
in the gaps, I guess, and wehaven't had a conversation since
that day any further about it.
He has not asked for morespecifics or anything like that,
and he knows he's loved byevery single person in our
(38:57):
family, especially by the Lord.
You know what a blessing toalso know that his life is so
different, because God did puthim in our lives and us in his
life with a divine purpose.
And at seven years old, brysonhimself, of his own free will,
came into my bedroom and saidMommy, I want to ask Jesus into
(39:18):
my heart.
And so I had the privilegewhich was something I had prayed
over his little life for a verylong time that he would come to
know the Lord at a very earlyage and that if there was
anything we could do as parentsto talk truth to him, to teach
him truth, to have him in church, we were dedicating him to the
Lord.
And that was an awesomeprivilege that I had at seven
(39:40):
years old to kneel with himbeside the bed and lead him in
the sinner's prayer.
You know, yeah, see my son thenget baptized, you know, a few
months later and have a separateconversation with the pastor
and make sure that he didunderstand what he had done, and
to now see him figuring outwhat the Christian walk looks
like and going to Christianschool.
He's been in Christian schoolhis entire education life, so
(40:04):
it's been such a blessing.
Yeah, I could not have askedfor this to have been any better
yeah, yeah, now y'all havemoved to Florida.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You're in Ocala.
The school that he's in now isit private?
It is a private christianschool.
It's a private, okay, and abouthow many are in his class he
has um 16 or 17 kids.
Speaker 2 (40:26):
I think they just enrolled um as someone new that
had moved to the area, so Ithink they're now 17 in his
class.
Yeah, um, so the entire seventhgrade is 17 kids.
Okay, that's the school.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Yeah, it's about the same size as millersville okay,
yeah, that's about the same sizethat I grew up in yeah, so
about 200 kids total and it onlygoes through the eighth grade.
Oh, okay, yeah, very similar tomillersville christian oh, okay
, well, that's not tiny, then ifit only goes up to eighth grade
(40:58):
, it only goes to eighth grade.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
They used to go to 12th but they have some space
issues and, of course, teachers,you know finding teachers yeah.
They haven't had high schoolninth through 12th grade for
several years now, but they'relooking to the future to change
that back grade for severalyears now, but they're looking
to the future to change thatback.
So, yes, after eighth grade wewill have to go look again for
(41:23):
where we should move next.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
Now we talked about advice that you would give
parents that are going throughthe same thing, with infertility
issues and just and, like yousaid, the whole in vitro route
is so expensive.
So the advice you gave was togo in with eyes wide open.
Can you expand on that?
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah, I do think that you need to.
You know, if this is somethingthat a couple is looking at, you
can't go into it dreamy-eyed,thinking that everything's just
going to be peachy keen, becausethe foster-to-adopt world is
very different and I thinkraising a child that
biologically isn't yours is alsodifferent.
(42:07):
And with me not having anythingto compare it to, I can just
see some minor things.
I would still lay my life downfor him.
I would absolutely do whateverI would need to do for him.
I love him as if he was my own.
I don't look at him and seecolor.
I don't look at him and see hishistory.
(42:28):
I, even though I know his past,I don't.
I don't look at him that way atall.
But I think when you areconsidering going into adoption,
especially this route foster toadopt you do need to be aware
and your heart you just need tobe sure that that's where God
(42:48):
wants you to be and that you'resure of what you can be prepared
for.
It is sad what is happening tothe children.
You know and we didn't feellike we were being called as
parents to go outside of ourcountry, let alone outside of
(43:09):
our state.
I mean, we knew that there werechildren right there in Catawba
County that needed homes.
We were just grateful that Godworked it out the way that he
did.
So I guess that's what I meantwas you just can't go into it
thinking it's going to be all.
What do they say?
Rainbows and unicorns, or?
Speaker 3 (43:26):
whatever.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It's not necessarily a simple, easy process, but when
you're walking in the directionthat God has planned for your
life, he opens doors and hemakes the way more smooth
because you're perfectlycentered right there in his will
.
I guess that's what I wasreally really meaning by that.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
One more thing I want to go back to you, listening to
God.
So a few years ago, you decidedto quit being a physical
therapist assistant and you wentinto massage therapy.
Can you just tell us Because Iwant to wrap this up with you
opening your own business andthe dream that God laid on your
(44:13):
heart.
The dream that God laid on yourheart.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah, okay, that's fair.
Yeah, we did talk about that.
I never would have said that I,if anybody had ever called me
that, I'd be like, nah, Iwouldn't have said that I was
entrepreneurial.
Okay, I didn't really even knowfor real what that meant.
Like, what does all that entail?
I began to just think biggerand different.
(44:40):
I had had a car accident when Iwas 19 that got me.
I had to go through physicaltherapy to learn to walk again.
That physical therapist spokesome things into my life and I
felt like God was saying to meat that time maybe it's physical
therapy.
Now you've got something.
I love people, I like beingaround people.
I like teaching people, therapy.
Now you've got something.
I love people, I like beingaround people, I like teaching
(45:01):
people.
Maybe this is a way for me totake my own experience and
really have true empathy forpeople that are going through
rehabilitation.
Of course, I thought it wasgoing to be more of a sports
rehabilitation and, lo andbehold, the Lord went completely
in the opposite direction withthe majority of my career into
skilled nursing and loving onold people.
Um, and I absolutely loved it.
(45:21):
I I told him in school don'tyou dare sending me to a nursing
home.
I don't want to do that.
I'm going to be with, you know,these, these young guys that
have acl injuries and all this.
I'm going to be an outpatienttherapist.
Oh no, no that didn't last verylong.
But all the while, as as I wasaging, as we were, you know,
going through this marriage withBart and then with Bryson
(45:43):
coming along, you began to startthinking about am I going to be
able to continue to do thiskind of physical work that I was
doing as a physical therapyassistant and rehab manager?
I was a director of multiplebuildings.
I mean, I had some God-givenadministrative talents, I guess,
abilities, and it was like am Igoing to be able to continue to
(46:05):
do this for, you know, kind ofindefinitely?
Stroke rehab, neuro rehab wasone of my favorite places in
amputations amputees I lovedoing gait training and those
people were getting bigger andbigger and I was getting older
and older.
And so I just began in in mythoughts, in my heart, to start,
(46:28):
without really asking the Lordlike blatantly coming out, okay,
are you done with me inphysical therapy and do you want
me to do something else?
But I just started to let mythoughts go with where would I
go from here?
And there was a time where Iwas like I said something to my
mom.
I was like you know what I justI've been asked to do a couple
of weddings and I love doingcooking and food and making
(46:51):
people feel happy with food somaybe I should do some sort of
little house that I fix up andit's for bridal parties and they
come in all the bridesmaids,and I have a couple different
menus.
And I mean I was just tellingher all these she's like you're
not such a great idea.
And wow, that would be aone-stop shop for a bride, blah,
blah, blah, making it easier.
And then I was like, so it kindof went away, right, but the
(47:13):
thought of doing something elsedidn't go away.
And then I thought, well, youknow, there's this school in
Newton that teaches you how tobe an esthetician.
I love skin and makeup and hairand doing all that stuff.
Maybe I'll go and look at doingthat.
So I went and interviewed withthe lady there, the instructor,
and then I was when I found outhow much it costs and how much
(47:34):
school it was going to take andI was like I can't do that and
my job and I'd have to take offand we can't afford for me to do
that and Bryson's, you know,still just a baby and I'm like
what am I going to do?
So that kind of was like, okay,that doesn't work well, as God
would have it.
I had found that massagetherapy was a natural way for me
(47:56):
to manage my stress.
Nothing else.
The doctors ever tried with memedication wise because I was
diagnosed with fibromyalgia.
Nothing else was working.
I was just in a fog.
But if I went and had, you know, scheduled systematic massage
every couple of weeks, I reallycould manage my muscle stress
and just my mental stress somuch easier.
Speaker 3 (48:17):
Was it like?
Was it lymphatic it?
Speaker 2 (48:20):
is Okay.
Oh, I have deep, deep tissuelike major like, the deeper the
better, just manage my pain andjust that tension that you keep.
And fibro people they know itcan be awful when you're in a
flare.
So I had my therapist had movedaway and I had to find someone,
and so someone had recommendeda lady to me by the name of Joy,
(48:43):
and she said when I startedseeing her, she, she was the
first person to introduce me todoTERRA products.
But she also said I reallythink you'd make a great massage
therapist because you know somuch about the body already.
You would like have a leg up oneverybody.
In school I went back this is asecond career for me, but I
(49:04):
didn't know anything about thebody.
I had to learn anatomy all forthe first time, and so it just
got me thinking.
And so then, of course, Istarted praying and she, she
said I know exactly who you needto go and see.
And so she gave the name andnumber at the maiden school of
massage and said she's, here'swhere it's at blah, blah, blah,
you need to go and talk to her.
(49:25):
So that was another opportunitywhere the Lord was like I, he's
shifting, he's moving me inanother direction, because all
of a sudden the doors wereflying wide open.
I walked into the space and assoon as we met, we both were so
comfortable with each other andshe has a believer background as
(49:45):
well and we just connected onthat level and she was like yes,
you can come be one of mystudents in my night program.
So it was something that I wasgoing to be able to do while
Bryson was small enough to notreally miss me too much and I
would be able to continue to domy full-time job and go to
school at night.
And so I jumped in and, rightbefore he turned five years old,
(50:08):
I enrolled in massage school.
14 months later, I graduated,started my massage career in
2016 while I was working, stillfull-time, and then in 2000 and
late 16, my little part-timebusiness, when I would get home,
was really filling up myschedule and this thought came
(50:31):
into my mind it needs to be abigger space.
I need more space.
So I was working at home.
Bart had, while I was finishingup school, had converted our
garage into a space and and Iwas like I think I really want
to own my own space and I thinkI really do want to do something
for women and I maybe I coulddo a place where they do hair
(50:51):
and facials and nails andmassage.
We could just have this great,you know.
So I just was like, okay, itwas like a little dream, that a
little vision that kind of hadpopped into my, into my spirit.
I don't know how to explain it.
So this is where God startedreally working.
So I went to my friend, jennifer, who had been doing my hair at
(51:13):
this point probably three orfour years, and I said, hey,
jennifer, we were just talking.
And I said how do you?
You know, she talked about, youknow, working from her home.
And she's like well, how do youlike working from home?
She goes, it's kind of hardbecause you don't really get out
and see people.
(51:33):
And you know, I said, yes, andit's kind of lonely at times.
And I said you know, I feellike all I do is come home from
one job and go to the next oneand everything, and I'd really
love to do it full time.
But I'll tell you what I'mthinking about.
Possibly.
I mean, what do you think about, you know?
Do you think women would beinterested in a place where they
can come and have a massage orget their hair done or the nails
or get a facial.
(51:54):
And she was like are you serious?
And I said yeah.
I said I, I really think god'stelling me that I'm that.
That's like the next step.
She said, karen, I have beenpraying for something that would
get me out of my home, but I'vebeen scared to go back to a
shop experience because of thebackbiting and things.
Sometimes salon oh you titions,hairst stylists can be really
(52:17):
ugly.
And she said I just that's theonly reason why I came back and
started working in my home.
I've been here for 13 years butI feel like I can't get out
anywhere and I feel like I'mdoing my work at home when I'm
supposed to be just home, andI'm doing you know home stuff
when I'm at work and and I justwas like well, what do you think
of the idea she goes?
If you do it, she goes, I'll beyour first stylist.
(52:39):
Well, I just sat back in thechair and she finished working.
And then she was like and Iknow somebody who's into real
estate.
You ought to call him.
And so when she told me who itwas cause she does his hair I'm
like, oh my gosh, that's adistant cousin.
I didn't know he did realestate.
I thought he was a photographer.
I mean, it was like a shoe blowin my mind.
Well, we called him right awayand he starts looking at
(53:00):
buildings and the next thing Iknow he is introducing me to a
florist building in downtownConover at 505 First Avenue
South.
We went and looked at it but assoon as I walked through the
door, lisa, it was like vision.
I was like, oh, this will bethe lobby.
We can turn that into my roomUpstairs.
Those bedrooms will be massagerooms.
(53:21):
That room right there will beperfect for an esthetician or
someone who does, you know, justmakeup and you know, hair updos
or whatever.
And then this other side, wherehe was doing his plants and
some of his, his home interiors.
That'll be great for a salon.
I can see at least three chairsand tape and mirrors and this
(53:42):
back part, it could be nails.
I mean this will be the publicbathroom.
I could just see it all amongstthe clutter and I walked out of
that place and I'm like, I knowit's a mess, but oh my gosh, I
can see it.
I can just see it.
And he was like, well, what doyou want to do?
And I'm like, okay.
Well, I guess I need to startworking really seriously on
(54:04):
financing.
So let me figure it out.
It was, it was coming up whereI was like I don't, I don't know
what I'm going to do.
At the time I, who I was bankingwith, did not want to take a
risk and I was like, okay, lord,you've brought me this far.
And now that there's a shutdoor, I don't understand.
I would go by, I would make anexcuse to go to cookout, get a
(54:28):
milkshake, just so I can comeback home and drive by the
building and look at thebuilding.
Well, this one particular timeI drove by and it had a pending
sign on it.
Oh, that's your heart.
I'm like what happened?
I did, I was like what happened, like what?
And I, I called him and I waslike you know what's going on?
(54:50):
He said I don't know.
And he's like I want there'snothing out there, saying
there's anything going on.
Let me try to call the realtorfor him.
Well, he never could get ananswer back from him.
Well, the next day that I wentby, the sign was gone,
completely out of the yard.
So I pull in and I literally inthe parking lot, and for those
of you that might be listening.
If you know, downtown Conoverand where Unseen Hand is at
(55:12):
right now, I literally pulled upto that fence where my nose of
my car was facing the peak ofthat side of the building.
I just, I mean, I began to havethis massive, out loud
conversation with God, like Ithought.
You said that this is what Iwas supposed to do and I'm, you
know, I have prayed, I know thisis what you're, but I don't
(55:33):
know where the money's comingfrom.
God, I need you to breakthrough on my behalf, because if
this is what you want, you'regoing to have to pay for the
bill, because I don't know howI'm going to get the money.
I mean, I just was going on andI don't understand why it's not
got for sale, signing itanymore, you know, and if this
isn't the place, then you'rejust going to have to show me
what is.
I mean, I just poured my heartout and when I left there, it
(55:57):
was as if I because I had justleft myself, you know, all out
there for the Lord peace justbegan to come over me and I, I
just was like okay, and I didn'tgo back by.
I waited, waited.
It had been about two weeks andI was like I want a milkshake,
(56:17):
I'm going to go by.
And so I went and got me avanilla milkshake and I came
back.
I came back by and lo andbehold, there was a new realtor
sign, brand new company realtorsign, in the yard.
Well, I was so stinking excited.
I called him up and I'm like,oh my gosh, you know there's a
sign and it's this person.
He's like, ok, I'll call her.
(56:45):
And when he did, he found outthat you know they'd already
made some things were happeningwith the gentleman and his
nephew was managing all of hiscare now and they were trying to
do they were putting it back onthe market because I had been
the only person to ever come andsee the space and she already
had an estate sale set up.
The estate sale company wasinterested in the house you know
(57:08):
the building itself, and butshe was going to be auctioning
everything out of his house,blah, blah, blah.
And they already had threepeople set up to look at it and
he went to bat for me and he waslike she was literally ready to
put in an offer.
Yeah, and when all this wentdown and she, the the other
(57:28):
realtor lady called the nephewand he said that's right, she
was the only one that ever cameand saw it.
So you canceled thoseappointments, she can have it.
And after that the price camedown by 30,000.
I mean, I had a privatefinancial partner who said I
want you to have your dream, Iwant this to come to fruition
(57:49):
for you.
You're an amazing therapist andI want to help you.
And so we we went to anattorney.
I set up my LLC so that shecould give the money to the LLC
as the you know financer, andthen I made my payments to her
and I mean, the rest is history.
We gutted the place.
I sunk everything I had into it, all my 401k and and anything I
(58:11):
had left over went into the thetruly of Unseen Hand Salon, spa
and Wellness.
It's beautiful.
Here we are today and thatbuilding.
A lot of love went into thatbuilding and that place was
redeemed.
It was truly set aside for usto do what we're doing there.
(58:32):
For us to do what we're doingthere.
And I know some people have goneby my sign and probably thought
they're a palm reader in therebecause of the hand on the sign.
But no, no, it's the unseenhand.
You know of the Lord who worksthrough us and the women that
work there who are serviceproviders.
They're independent contractors, they just rent space for me,
(58:53):
but we're like one big happyfamily.
They all love the Lord.
Um, you know, and so it's a.
When you walk into that spaceand you see unseen hand on the
wall, almost every person islike there's something different
about this place and it isbecause it was prayed over.
It was God's blessing.
He redeemed that building forwhat it was being used for
(59:15):
before and it wasn't honoringhim to now a space that was
going to honor him at every turn.
So that was probably one of thehardest decisions when thinking
about coming to florida wasleaving my full-time.
You know expectation there atunseen hand.
I still own it.
Yeah, and it will.
It will stay in my hands aslong as the Lord says, because
(59:38):
you know the work he startedthere has has been good, the
community has accepted us, andso and then you know the other
blessing was above where thesalon is is there's a classroom.
So I automatically had a placewhere I could teach my natural
solutions classes with doTERRA,automatically had a place where
I could teach my naturalsolutions classes with doTERRA.
I mean he set everything up forme to be really successful and
(01:00:01):
he's brought some amazing peopleinto my life.
It's been an adventure.
Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Hey, I appreciate you sharing your story and getting.
You're very welcome and I knowit's hard.
I know it's hard talking aboutsome of this and thank you for
opening up your life, your story, and I know that you've just
been a help to people out there.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Well, that's all I want to be is, you know, my
testimony to bring encouragementto someone else's life that may
have walked in a few of thoseplaces that I've walked and just
know that you know God has.
Of those places that I'vewalked and just know that you
know God has the very best planfor us.
We just have to stay close,stay in the word, stay in
constant communication with himand he will lead you if you let
(01:00:46):
him.
Thank you, elisa.
Thank you for being such agreat friend and loving on my
boy when our boys play balltogether.
Loving on my boy when our boysplay ball together.
Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Oh gosh, I miss them, I miss them all playing
together.
Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
I know I do too, but they do grow up, all right, well
thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:01:04):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Thank you, until next time.
Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Thank you for listening to this episode of
Beyond Existing.
Many thanks to my guests andalso to Crystal Webb and her
middle school jazz band forsupplying the music when the
Saints come marching in.
If there's something that youwould like to share with me or a
topic that you would like tohear discussed, there's a link
(01:01:28):
in the show's description, sojust send me a text.
Please share the show withfriends and family to help grow
the podcast and be sure tofollow wherever you listen to
podcasts.
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