Dion DiMucci’s Rock Journey: Hits, Faith & Near Miss with Buddy Holly

Join us for an inspiring conversation with Dion DiMucci, a rock star with 39 top 40 hits, a philosopher, and a devoted Catholic. Dion shares his early life in the Bronx, his love for music influenced by Hank Williams and Jimmy Reed, and the story behind his timeless hit 'Run Around Sue.' He opens up about his lifelong passion for songwriting, his 62-year marriage to Susan, and a fateful decision that saved his life — giving up his seat on the ill-fated plane with Buddy Holly. Dive into the blend of music, faith, and personal stories that shaped a remarkable career and a life well-lived.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
We're here today with Dion DiMucci, rock star,
philosopher, Catholic, lifecoach.
I am so excited to interview youbecause, wow, what a career
you've had.

SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
Yeah, it's a joy to be with you here this morning.
Yeah, I feel kind of privileged.
I feel like I found a privilegedway to live.
I've been blessed.
I always said, I have this giftfor music, and if you have a

(00:35):
gift, there's a gift giver.
So that was my, that's what I,my thoughts, that's what I was
thinking about at 14 years old,reading St.
Thomas Aquinas and listening toJimmy Reed and Hank Williams.

SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Wow, you were reading Thomas Aquinas at 14?
I was trying.
Well, tell me a little bit,first of all, 39 top 40 hits in
music business.
That's not an easy job.
That's not an easyaccomplishment to do.
Tell me a little bit about yourchildhood and your rise to fame.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12):
Well, you know, you talk about getting all those
hits on the charts.
It's like stepping up on abowling alley and hitting a
strike.
And then you keep hittingstrikes.
Now that I look back on it, Isay, this is miraculous.
I couldn't plan it if I tried.
I know.
But I was just having a goodtime putting songs together.

(01:32):
And when I was a kid, myparents, my father, he was
somewhere on the spectrum.
He had wonderful qualities.
He could swim all day long fromone jetty to another, dive off
the City Island Bridge in theBronx.
He could...

(01:53):
walk on his hands on the edge ofthe tenement buildings and
entertain the neighborhood andsculpt but he never had a real
job he just yeah he was like meand work uh i have a nodding
acquaintance with it's likehello goodbye you know my mother
my mother was totallyresponsible and he was totally

(02:15):
irresponsible you know so shehad two jobs so there was always
a lot of arguing in the houseand when I heard as a kid I must
have been 11 years old I heard acountry star his name was Hank
Williams they call him the thehillbilly Shakespeare so I hear
him on radio and I thought Itjust blew my mind.

(02:40):
I found a record store up onFordham Road which is near
Fordham University in the Bronx.
Became very good friends withthis guy who owned it and he
used to call me every time aHank Williams song came out.
Then I heard Jimmy Reed, thisblues artist, And man, I just
wanted to communicate like HankWilliams because he told these

(03:01):
stories.
And Jimmy Reed had this grooveso I wanted a groove like him.
He was like a rhythm singer.
So I got enthralled with thisstuff at a very early age and I
was collecting these records andmy uncle got me a guitar and I
was trying to, because it hurledme into a place of enchantment.

(03:24):
And, you know, it was a war inthe kitchen every day with my
mother and father, you know,fighting, like he has to get a
job.
Pat, get a job.
And he just couldn't work.
So I just, the more they argued,the better guitar player I
became.
I kind of went into the bedroomin the corner and listened to

(03:48):
these records, and I became goodat it.
And I think...
I've never really changed.
What happened to me is thissense of enchantment, this
pleasure, this delight thatthese records kind of took me
to, this place of transcendenceabove the arguments and the

(04:10):
chaos.
All my life I've been trying towrite a song like that and
transmit it to you and others.
That's been my whole life.
I'm still like that.
I still wake up in the morningwanting to write a great song.

SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
That's awesome.
Did you ever have co-writers ordid you write your songs
yourself?

SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
I just feel like I'm under the spout where the glory
comes out.
It's just if you're open, youcould download this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 (04:36):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Was there a religion in yourhousehold growing up?

SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
um not really not my parents no interesting being
from

SPEAKER_01 (04:47):
italian american

SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
yeah not my parents not my grandparents some of my
aunts but very little i justremember one thing when i went
to religious instructions oddlyenough i must have been 13 and
they were talking about thetrinity

SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
yes

SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
you know i come from a a Catholic section in the
Bronx.
It was like Little Italy.
And Mont Carmel Catholic Churchwas the hub of the neighborhood.
And the nuns were teaching meabout the Trinity.
And I said, what's that?
And of course, they were talkingabout three persons, one God.

(05:26):
They said, well, it's likewater, ice, and vapor.
It's the same substance, butdifferent forms.
And I thought, that's the onlything I know.

SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
That's kind of a cool way of looking at it,
water, ice, and vapor.
I love that.
You married the love of yourlife, Susan.
I

SPEAKER_00 (05:43):
did, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
And you guys have been married for?

SPEAKER_00 (05:47):
I've been married 62 years.
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (05:49):
my goodness.
That's a long time.
What's the secret?

SPEAKER_00 (05:55):
I don't, well I don't take her for granted.
Maybe that is the secret.
There's a lot of love there.
You know when I first, she movedinto the Bronx from Vermont.
Now, Ira, if you know anythingabout the Bronx, nobody moves to
the Bronx.

SPEAKER_01 (06:12):
Voluntarily anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
You're born there or you move out.
You don't move into the Bronx.

SPEAKER_01 (06:17):
That's really funny.

SPEAKER_00 (06:18):
So she moved into the Bronx and she was exotic to
me.
You know, she was a farm girlfrom Vermont.
You know, she...
She had red hair and a fewfreckles.
And once I saw her, I couldn'tthink of anything else.
I was in middle school.
That's so cute.

(06:39):
I'd be sitting there in class.
I know the teacher was saying,you know, wah, wah, wah.
So

SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
you met her, how old were you?

SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
I was 15, she was like 14, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (06:53):
Wow, that's like a true love story.
You never hear of that anymore,ever.
So is your song, Run Around Sue,about?

SPEAKER_00 (07:01):
Oh, it is a funny story.
Actually, it is.
Actually, it is.
It's a funny thing.
So

SPEAKER_01 (07:08):
sweet.
I feel like

SPEAKER_00 (07:09):
I'm going to cry.
But I got to tell you the story.
Okay.
In my neighborhood, the churchhas a feast.

SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
Twice a year.
Most

SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
churches.

SPEAKER_00 (07:18):
Okay.
So they have St.
Gennaro feast.
St.

SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Gennaro is the saint of Naples, Italy.
St.
Gennaro.

SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
There you go.
Okay.
Well, it's, you know, they setup the stands and they have all
the food and the rides and themusic and the pastries.
And it's a glorious time.
They shut down the neighborhood,the streets.
And in my neighborhood, it'skind of like a throwback to the
Middle Ages.
You know, when you see a girland you talk to her first and

(07:49):
you tell your friends, hey, Ilike her.
Like you have like a brand onher.
Like she's mine.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_01 (07:56):
she's mine.

SPEAKER_00 (07:56):
Like stay away.
Yeah.
So anyway, I go to the feast andshe's talking to some guy.
So all my friends come over,like there's 10 guys in my ear.
They're going, you see that girlSusan you like?
She's talking to that guy.
And one guy goes, he's goodlooking.
And the other guy goes, why isshe talking to him?

(08:16):
And I'm looking at her and I'mwondering, why is she talking to
him?
So they really got into my head.
And I didn't know how to processthese emotions or feelings.
Who knew how to do this at 15?
in this neighborhood, you know.
So she comes over.
I said, why were you talking tothat guy?

(08:38):
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
already jealous, huh?

SPEAKER_00 (08:40):
Absolutely.
She says, well, he asked fordirections to the Bronx Zoo.
And I told him, just followFordham University down to
Southern Boulevard.
I said, yeah, but why were youtalking to him?
So I went home and wrote RunAround Sue.

SPEAKER_01 (08:57):
Oh, I love that song.

SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Love.
So, you know, I was never goingto release it.
And then one day, up the line alittle, I sang it with the guys
in the neighborhood.
We were fooling with it.
And she said, that's a greatsong.
You should release it.
I said, ah.
And I told her, you know, I wastelling her, you know, why I
wrote it.
And I couldn't handle this.
And we were friends again.
Or going steady.

(09:21):
And she said, you have torelease that song.
It's a great song.
She said, release it.
So when I had a contract, Ireleased it.

SPEAKER_01 (09:29):
What's your favorite favorite song that you've
written?
Or you released?
Or unreleased?
But released would be betterbecause then people would know
it.

SPEAKER_00 (09:37):
I have a lot of them.
Recently I wrote one calledCrying Shame.
I love it, you know?
why do you why do i wait whenyou won't come back i'm on the
wrong side of the zodiac youknow it's a crying shame i just
love the words sometimes i lovethe way the words feel coming

(09:57):
out of my mouth the vowels youknow you have to this there's a
certain way you're right whereit's it sounds right coming out
of your mouth you know the wordsroll off you just roll out so
you know i'm always like intothe new songs you know but i had
a lot of good ones like abrahammartin and john the wanderer and

(10:20):
ruby baby when i was a kid anduh when i put dion and the
belmonts together when i waslike 16 we had some interesting
songs because we didn't know howto write lyrics we just uh we
started with all this rhythmicpercussive stuff because i i
mean you know we just madesounds You know, just anything,

(10:54):
because we didn't know how towrite words.
Right,

SPEAKER_01 (10:56):
right.

SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
So we just made sounds, and we had hit records
with these sounds.

SPEAKER_01 (11:01):
That's awesome.
I read, talking about yourmusical journey, I read that you
were supposed to be on theairplane with...
Buddy Holly and Richie Valensthat went down?

SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Yeah, I was on that tour.
It was called the Winter DanceParty Tour.
And it went out in 1959, early1959.
And I was on a tour for twomonths with Buddy Holly before
this tour that the fatal planecrash took place.

(11:39):
But so Buddy and I were friends.
We went out into the Midwest onthis, you know, we didn't have
these buses that a Willie Nelsonhas today or these country
stars.
It was just a yellow school bus,you know.
And it kept, we werecrisscrossing the Midwest in
like 20 below zero weather.

(12:01):
in february january and februaryof 59 and and the the belts and
the the fan and the heater andthe bus kept breaking down in
between towns which were 30miles apart you could die you
know we had some uh all the guyson the bus who played trumpet
and horn and piano and they werescreaming because they knew the

(12:26):
danger we were in.
Guys like me from the Bronx, youknow to me I was on a field
trip.
But Buddy Holly got so fed upwith the bus breaking down, that
two weeks into the tour hedecided to charter a plane in
Clear Lake, Iowa.
He said, you know, I'm going tofly to Fargo, North Dakota just

(12:48):
to get there a little early andget some sleep and shave and get
some rest and do some wash andI'm sick and tired of being on
the bus and breaking down andall.
So he got us in a room becausehe chartered this plane It was a
Beechcraft Bonanza.
It had one engine, four seats.

(13:12):
And so the pilot, Buddy Holly,and then there was Richie
Valance, the big bopper andmyself.
We were like the CEOs of thetour.
So he was trying to recruit usto lower the cost.
And so we flipped a coin in thedressing room and I won the coin
toss.
And then he said, you know it'sgoing to cost,$36, you know,

(13:37):
that's the amount you have toput into the total.
And when he said$36, my headjust almost exploded because my
parents were arguing about this$36 a month rent all my life.
You know, it just...

(13:58):
That was the rent.
And my head hadn't stretched outto spend$36 for an hour and a
half plane flight.
So I said, I'm going to take thebus.
So I gave my seat to Richie.
And they took off that night.
February 3rd.
I think, you know, the planecrashed maybe five minutes after

(14:21):
they took off.
The pilot was young and hedidn't know how to read like the
instruments.
They had changed that instrumentin the plane that shows you your
level.
And he ran into this snowstorm,this blizzard.
And, you know, in small planeslike that, they call it, from

(14:43):
what I understand, they call itscud running.
You fly under the clouds and youlook at the lights on the
farmhouses and the street lightsand the cars and just different
light and you could make yourway to where you're going if you
just fly right under the clouds.
But it was such blinding snow,he couldn't see, he couldn't

(15:08):
determine the lights from thesnow.
It's kind of what

SPEAKER_01 (15:12):
happened to John F.
Kennedy Jr.
It's like you get disoriented,you don't know if it's up or
down.

SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
If you're just like this, if you're not...
If you're not level and you'relike this, you'll drive the
plane eventually right into theground.
That's what both of them did.
Same thing.
I

SPEAKER_01 (15:29):
mean, you survived a plane crash.
Where were you on your spiritualjourney when that happened?

SPEAKER_00 (15:38):
Well, I tell you, this definitely put me on...
ushered me into the front doorof the spiritual journey.
I mean, if

SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
that doesn't, I don't know what will.

SPEAKER_00 (15:49):
Yeah, you know, I got on the bus and their clothes
were hanging, you know, and Iwas thinking, who am I?
Where am I?
Why am I here?
What am I doing?
What's this all about?
All these questions.
And when I got home, I ran tothe church and got Monsignor
Pettinacone and I said, uh,monsignor what you know what's

(16:09):
the you know because there wasno grief counseling in the bronx
in 1959 so i asked him and andyou know he told me something
that mesmerized me or he saiddion in our faith relationships
never end in fact they don'tstay stagnant your friends are

(16:32):
closer to the beatific visionThey're more open to grace and
they're growing.
So you ask them to pray for youand you pray for them because
they're growing and they will bechanged.
And by the time you see themagain, your relationship will
have moved forward.
And I never heard anything likethat.

(16:52):
I was like, I kept wanting totalk to Monsignor Perniconi
because I thought that wasbrilliant.
And he cooled me out, you know?

SPEAKER_01 (17:02):
Yeah, I really get a lot of comfort.
I have a lot of priest friendsfrom what I do.
And I get a lot of comfort fromspeaking to them.
And growing up, I went toCatholic school, I always
thought, well, they're notmarried, they haven't had life
experiences like we have.
What kind of...

(17:22):
advice could they give me thatwould satisfy me but oddly
enough i feel like they're themost wise in a way

SPEAKER_00 (17:31):
well you know a lot of people like to talk and think
they're smarter than the churchand smarter than god But they're
not, and I wasn't.
I was a defiant kid.
I'm from the Bronx.
I'm like, what would you say,cynical, critical,
argumentative.
I thought I knew everything.

(17:53):
But when you meet a guy who justtalks to you and is on a sound
foundation of love and peace,humility and forgiveness and
mercy and grace and wisdom, andyou know it, you feel it all the
time every time you talk tothem, you start listening.

(18:16):
And the thing that, the mostsimple thing that I was told
that I couldn't grab a hold ofit because I don't know, maybe
kids from the Bronx, I don'thear right, but I thought God
judged you or he disciplined youor punished you.

(18:43):
And the priest said to me, no,you don't understand.
God is love.
That's who God is.
You're punished by your sins,not for them.
You're punished by your actions.
You remove

SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
yourself

SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
from that love.
And no, God doesn't damnanybody.
Otherwise that George Colin jokewould fly, but it doesn't.
It was, George Colin wasbrilliant, but he was like an
inch deep and a mile wide whenhe, you know, he told these
stories about religion, but theywere funny but he was he wasn't
close because you damn yourselfyou know god doesn't do it you

(19:21):
know you remove yourself fromhis light his love his wisdom
his peace his security you knowand i know that's a simple
statement but it took me yearsfor it to get through my head i
are you kidding you mean goddoesn't punish you one time i
went to the priest because i wastrying to get him you know i was

(19:42):
trying to say you know you'rewrong god punishes you you know
so i said you know this guy iknow this guy he ran up his
wife's credit cards and he's Heleft her, and he's in the next
town.
He's got three kids, and she'sstill paying off the credit
cards.
And how does a guy like that getpunished?

(20:03):
And he said, a guy like thatgets punished by being a guy
like that.

SPEAKER_01 (20:08):
Exactly.
Could you imagine juggling allthat?
No thanks.
So you were born and raisedCatholic.

SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
I had a very mild Catholic upbringing.

SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (20:21):
You know, very mild.

UNKNOWN (20:24):
I...

SPEAKER_00 (20:24):
Didn't go to church.
A couple of things happened tome when I was a kid.
You know like I mean I wouldwalk past Mont Carmel Catholic
Church and Monsignor Pettinaconeused to walk in the front of the
church doing his prayers andtalking to people in the
neighborhood.

(20:45):
So one time he said to me, thisis my religious instructions, by
the way, because I didn't go.
I didn't go to Catholic schoolor anything like that.
I was a gangbuster.
I was in a gang, the FordhamBaldies, and all the guys that
were across the street likeRalphie Moche and Joe Bebe Eyes
and all these guys with the gangjacket on.

(21:07):
But this guy interested me.
He used to engage me in theseconversations as a kid.
I must have been 15 years old.
I'm walking past the church andhe says, Yo, Dion, come over
here.
What's this movie, Rebel Withouta Cause, this James Dean movie?

(21:29):
I said, Monsignor.
That's a cool movie.
That's James Dean.
He was a big star.
In fact, I was talking to Jimmyon the way up here about James
Dean.
He was a big star in the 50s.
So I'm trying to tell theMonsignor, this movie's great,
Monsignor.
He says, Dion, why rebel withouta cause?
Rebel without a cause.

(21:50):
Dion, you've got to rebel forthe truth.
True story.
So I'm like, okay, thanks,Monsignor.
And I walk away and I'mthinking...
What the hell is truth?
I had no idea what it was.
And then I'd come back and he'dsay, Dion, what makes a man
happy?
I said, Monsignor, I tell youwhat, if I could get a, a Ford

(22:12):
Thunderbird with black leatherbucket seats and wire chrome
wheels and get me a J-200 Gibsonguitar like Elvis Presley and
get a date with Susan, thisrighteous fox that moved down
from Vermont, Monsignor.
If I could get a hit record, I'dbe a happy guy.

(22:35):
No, Dion, the virtuous man is ahappy man.
Oh, thanks Monsignor." And Iwalk away and I think, what the
hell is virtue?
I didn't know what it was.
So I'd go back and say, youknow, Monsignor what's virtue?
I thought he had a cold.
Virtue.
So he said, and he drilled itinto me.

(23:02):
It was a habitual and firmdisposition to do the good.
And I was up to no good.
I was with the gang, you know, Iwas like, You know, I didn't
know what he was talking aboutbut little by little those
things started resonatingExactly, they started, you know
making sense and getting into myheart as I got older.

SPEAKER_01 (23:25):
Okay, so We had the plane crash you get closer to
God you slowly start findingyour way back to church

SPEAKER_00 (23:35):
my journey I hope this isn't too long of an
explanation, but I starteddrinking and drugging in the
mid-60s.
First of all, I get like 12 hitrecords, gold records.
They're on the wall.
I mean, it's like bowling, likeI said, like a strike every time

(23:57):
you stand up.
So I have like 12 hit records,12 gold records.
I'm like...
starting to use drugs, drink,because I did not know how to
handle my emotions.
I didn't even know what theywere.
And my family, it was like,don't feel that way.
It's stupid to feel that way.

(24:19):
It's wrong to feel that way.
You're crazy to feel that way.
But nobody explained anythingabout how you handle these
things.
So when I took that first drug,it was like...
What

SPEAKER_01 (24:31):
was your drug of choice?

SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Oh, heroin.
yeah it came you

SPEAKER_01 (24:36):
didn't you didn't start light huh

SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
i i snorted some of the stuff you know just somebody
and man i was cooled out i waslike what do you want to know
wow the kid is here i didn'thave to second guess anything
nothing i just felt so you knowwhat happens is you feel so good

(24:59):
The next day you're looking forit again and again and again.
And you think you found heaven,you found hell.
Of course your teeth will fallout of your mouth, you'll lose
your life, your hair, your wife,your kids, your money,
everything.
It's just crazy.
But now I'm like into drugs.

(25:20):
I'm drugging and drinking andI'm trying to control it because
I am still recording.
I tell you, the music neversuffered.
For some reason, I was honest inthat area and I kept it honest.
I don't know how I did it.
When I go back and listen towhat I was doing back then, I
think, man, I don't know how Idid that.

(25:43):
Did the

SPEAKER_01 (25:44):
addiction come after the crash?

SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Yeah.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So basically, that was part ofit too.
And I was running the streetswith another...
Just another teenage star.
In fact, he was the lead singerof the teenagers.
His name was Frankie Lyman.

SPEAKER_02 (26:01):
Oh, I

SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
know him.
Why do fools fall in love?
Why do

SPEAKER_02 (26:05):
birds sing?

SPEAKER_00 (26:07):
Yeah, he was a beautiful guy.
And come 1968, we were runningthe streets together.
February of 1968, he died of anOD, of an overdose.
And it scared me.
It just...
Just, he was gone.
And I thought, this isn't,something's wrong.

(26:30):
Something's wrong.
And I ran into this guy.
He told me, he said, listen, asick mind can't cure a sick
mind.
You better get on your knees andask God to help you.
I didn't know God from a hole inthe wall.
But I got on my knees, I said aprayer, and when I got up...
What

SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
prayer did you say?

SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
I said, help me.
I said, Lord, I said, I don'tknow what I'm doing.
I said, I said, I need help.
Can you help me?
If you're real, help me.
And I got, I stood up.
And I haven't had a drug or adrink since April 1st, 1968.

(27:11):
It's been 57 years.

SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
Wait a second.
So you, after that prayer, youdid not put any drugs or alcohol
in your body?

SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
No.
The fellow that I was talking totook me to a 12-step
spiritually-based recoveryprogram.
Those 12 steps are...
are designed to lead you intounion with God.
They're gleaned from thedisciplines of St.

(27:40):
Ignatius of Loyola, this groupin England called the Oxford
Group.
They picked up on it and broughtit to America, and that's how it
started.
So when you work in these steps,it's like one, two, three, four,
five, and they clean out theclutter.
And by the time you get to the12th step, you're under the

(28:02):
spout where the glue Glory comesout.
You're under the wellspring ofbeauty and truth and goodness.
And it's a free gift.
You're open to receive it now.
That the clutter is cleaned out.
And this happens to me.
I have this spiritual awakening.
I'm 11 years into this programand I go jogging one day because

(28:25):
I felt something was missing.
I believed in God.
But I was aware of his powerbefore I became aware of his
reality.
So I went out jogging one dayand I was a little frustrated.
I had three young daughters andI'm thinking, yeah I have a

(28:46):
program but what do they have?
How do I explain?
I'm explaining principles tothem and this way of life.
But while I'm jogging, I utterthe words, God, it would be nice
to be closer to you.
And bam, this white light goesoff in the pit of my chest and

(29:08):
it comes out of every pore of mybeing and Christ is standing in
front of me.
It's like this ethereal figure.
It's like the transfiguration.
And I just get lifted off theground.
His arms are out and I run rightto him and into him.
And it seemed like the wholeworld became technicolor or

(29:31):
something.
The sky became blue and carsbecame red and the grass is
green.
It was that way a minute ago,but I didn't see it like this.
It became very vivid.
And I run home and I...
run through the front door of myhouse, I said, Susan.
I said, Jesus is alive.

(29:53):
She looked at me like I ran toofar or I was overheated or
something.
She said, who doesn't know that?
said why didn't you tell me shesaid your

SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
poor wife she's been through a lot

SPEAKER_00 (30:06):
she said yeah like like you're gonna believe me you
know like yeah i'm gonna tellyou you're gonna believe me so
the thing is that when thathappened to me i i i jumped in
the car i ran i went down to125th street in north miami and
i found the bible book so iwanted to read everything that
christ said i thought I get it.

(30:28):
He's the son of God.
And if he's the son of God, Iwant to know everything he said
because I've been listening to alot of people all my life, but I
want to know what he said.
So I go into this Biblebookstore.
I said, I want a New Testament.
I want a Bible.
I didn't say New Testament.

(30:48):
I just wanted a Bible.
She said, let me get it.
And I said, I want to knoweverything Jesus said.
She gave me a New Testament, anNIV.
And she said, this is in fourparts.
It was this old woman.
And I was like 38 years old.
And the Bible bookstore was,there was nobody there, just me
and her.
And she said, it's in fourparts.

(31:09):
I said, what do you mean fourparts?
She said, it's Matthew, Mark,Luke, and John.
It's the gospels.
Then the book of Acts, how theapostles started the church.
Then there's these letters, theEphesians, the Thessalonians,
the Galatians, you know, thePhilippians and the Colossians
and the Floridians and theTexans.

(31:29):
She started like goofing withme.
She said, and then there'sRevelation.
So I don't think, I'm so happyshe told me that because to open
a Bible, it's like static.
You know, people, even priestscan't open it.
You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 (31:46):
It's overwhelming a little

SPEAKER_00 (31:47):
bit.
You know what I'm saying?
So I started reading it, andthere it was.
Just, it's everything I reallylonged for, that high that I was
looking for and all this junk.
It just, I can't tell you.
I felt I was home.
I've never been the same.

(32:07):
It's like over 45 years.
I would never go to church.
to go to church.
What is it, like a kumbayasession where people get
together and go kumbaya?

SPEAKER_01 (32:18):
All of us reverts, I feel like, feel the same way.
Like, I kind of have a similarstory.
Like, once you feel it, you lookat things differently.

SPEAKER_00 (32:28):
Once you have a relationship with this God, you
have a personal relationshipwith Him, you want to go see
Him.
You want to be with Him.
And

SPEAKER_01 (32:36):
not disappoint Him.

UNKNOWN (32:38):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:39):
absolutely it's absolutely

SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
if you had to describe your relationship with
god in one word what would it be

SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
wow i don't know a lot of words come to mind but
it's it's it's so around graceand mercy and forgiveness and
love it's love you know

SPEAKER_01 (33:03):
love what the priest said to you when you were a
child

SPEAKER_00 (33:07):
It's love, and love is willing the good of the
other.
Love is encouraging somebody toreach their potential
physically, mentally,spiritually, emotionally.
Love is lifting somebody up, iswanting them to be fully alive.
God is not in competition withus.
He created us.

(33:27):
He wants us to be fully alive.
A lot of people fight this.
I'm from the Bronx, so take myword for it.

SPEAKER_01 (33:37):
You mentor men in prison.

SPEAKER_00 (33:41):
I've been there and spoke to men, and they're quite
open when you're in thatsituation.
They're quite vulnerable, nomatter how many tattoos and how
big they are.
They open up.

SPEAKER_01 (33:58):
That's really cool because maybe they don't feel
threatened.

SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
I feel threatened, you know, going in there.
But once you, if you're real andyou have the language of the
heart and you're not trying toimpress anybody or push anything
on anybody, if you're just real,people get it.

SPEAKER_01 (34:20):
You've done a lot of good things, I feel like, with
your life.
You've had your ups and downs,you were an addict, but you're
like here as an example of howyou can be successful, have your
ups and downs, turn your lifearound, and just be a good
person.

SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
You know, listen, I've been in this business a
long time, and I noticed onething, and this comes right out
of the same...
thomas aquinas book if you don'thave god in your life you will
try to fill your life up withthe four great substitutes

(35:00):
Wealth, pleasure, power, andhonor.
Now you look at all the moviesand all the politicians, you see
it all over the place.
I love

SPEAKER_02 (35:08):
that.

SPEAKER_00 (35:09):
You just watch the New York Housewives.
Wealth, pleasure, power, andhonor.
And the honor is like, you gottabe right, you gotta win, you
gotta be better.
I'm always honest.
You're never, you know, andyou're always trying to virtue
signaling and all that stuff.
But once you have God in yourlife, these things aren't bad.

(35:29):
We're not Puritans, you know,but once you have God in your
life or you're scented orhowever you say it, he shapes
your desire for these things.
And that enables you to, you'reable to achieve like a freedom.

(35:51):
You're able to, it makesachieving freedom possible.
And it makes serenity and peaceand being home and being right
with God, it makes it possiblewhen He's shaping your desire.
To me that's true freedom.
Freedom used to be doinganything you want, especially if

(36:15):
you didn't get caught.
That was my freedom.
And then when I started talkingto my mentor, and a lot of this
stuff is in the book too, thekind of wisdom that I found
through being mentored.
I call the book the rock androll philosopher.

SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
You

SPEAKER_01 (36:35):
have a lot of wisdom.
Matches my outfit too.

SPEAKER_00 (36:41):
A philosopher is a lover of wisdom.
And the art of philosophy ismaking good distinctions.
If you make bad distinctions,it's bad philosophy.
This is what the book is about.
Your philosophy is perfectlydesigned to get the result

(37:04):
you're getting.
in life.
It's perfectly designed forthat.
But where you see your beliefsystem, where any of us, where
we see our belief system is inrelationships.
That's where you actually seeit.
with your girlfriend, with yourwife, with your kids, with your
friends, with your coworkers.

(37:25):
You actually see how it playsout, and that's what those
stories are about.

SPEAKER_01 (37:29):
Is the book out?

SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:30):
Okay, I'm definitely, and we could find it
on Amazon, or where do we findit?

SPEAKER_00 (37:35):
You go to Amazon, you put in the rock and roll
philosopher, Dion, and it comesup, the hardcover, you could get
the Audible.
The Audible's a trip.

SPEAKER_01 (37:46):
I love Audible books.

SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
It has 60 songs.
Oh,

SPEAKER_01 (37:50):
I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (37:50):
It has inductions.
I was really passionate aboutthe audible.
I got like on a, really like awave of creativity doing

SPEAKER_01 (38:03):
that.
What's your favorite prayer?

SPEAKER_00 (38:05):
My favorite prayer?

SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (38:08):
Could I recite it?

SPEAKER_01 (38:09):
Of course.

SPEAKER_00 (38:11):
It goes like this.
lord i offer myself to you tobuild with me and do with me as
you will relieve me of thebondage of self that i may
better do thy will take away allmy difficulties that victory
over them may bear witness toyour love your power and your

(38:31):
way of life may i do your willalways amen

SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
amen okay who's your favorite saint

SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
you know It used to be St.
Francis growing up.
In fact, my middle name isFrancis, right?

SPEAKER_01 (38:46):
Which Francis of Assisi?

SPEAKER_00 (38:48):
Of Assisi, yeah, you know.
But then, oh, I got a story.
It's too long.
No, it's not

SPEAKER_01 (38:57):
to say it.

SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
Well, so I'm in Rome.

SPEAKER_01 (39:02):
My favorite place.

SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
The Jubilee year, walking through the holy doors.
And there's a statue of SaintJerome.
And there was a plaque in theback of Mount Carmel Church in
my neighborhood.
It said, ignorance of scriptureis ignorance of Christ.
So there's this guy standingnext to me.

(39:25):
His name is Mike Aquilina.
I didn't know it at the time,but he's a patristic writer.
He wrote 50 books on the theearly church, the 300 years
after Christ ascended, and onthe apostolic fathers, the
founding fathers of the church,who all got martyred.

(39:47):
But anyway, I didn't know him atthe time.
So I look at this guy and Isaid, ignorance of scripture is
ignorance of Christ, SaintJerome.
And he says to me, thethunderer.
And I said, the thunderer?
I know who the wanderer is, butwho's the thunderer?
You know, he said, Saint Jerome,they used to call him the
thunderer.

(40:07):
I said, why?
He said, oh, he would curse atpeople.
He was a uppity guy.
He was brilliant, and he came,he was He was born in what we
now know as Croatia.
And in those days, in I guessthe fourth century, they sent
all the brightest of the brightto Rome to learn.

(40:28):
And he was there, and the Popeat that time, I think it was
Damius, he commissioned him totranslate the Bible from Greek
to Latin.
So single-handedly, this guytranslates the Bible from Greek

(40:50):
to Latin.
It's called the Vulgate.

SPEAKER_01 (40:52):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (40:53):
So he's living in Rome.
He doesn't like Romans.
He don't like Greeks.
He thinks everybody's dressing.
He's a very uppity guy.
He's so bright, you know, peopleget on his nerves.
So he moves to Israel, moves toBethlehem, makes friends with a
rabbi, learns Hebrew andtranslates the Bible again from

(41:18):
Hebrew to Latin.
So I'm thinking, this guydeserves a song.

SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
Oh, the Thunder.

SPEAKER_00 (41:25):
So I write a song called god's angry man his
crotchety scholar was saintjerome the great name caller who
cared not a dime for the laws oflibel and in his spare time
translated the bible saintjerome the thunderer so anyway i
write this blues song And MikeAquilina and I become fast

(41:48):
friends and we've written 40songs in the last five years,
blues songs that went to the topof the charts.
All three albums that I did withEric Clapton and Peter Frampton
and all these great bluesguitarists.
But so the reason why I tellthat story is I said to him, how

(42:14):
could he be a saint cursing atpeople?
And Mike said, it takes allkinds to make it to heaven.
A saint is someone who has aheroic virtue in an area.
They're not perfect people.
They're flawed.
They're all flawed.
You know, even Saint Augustine.
But I have so many favoritesaints.

(42:35):
For some reason, I like St.
Jerome.
I figure if he made it toheaven, maybe I have a chance.

SPEAKER_01 (42:40):
We all do.
We are all saints in ourdifferent ways.

SPEAKER_00 (42:43):
Yeah.
I'm saying I don't like to, youknow, listen, I feel saved.
I feel like I'm being saved.
I feel like I will be saved, butI don't want to be presumptuous
about it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 (42:55):
But I feel like we all have our special way of how
we spread the message.

SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
And yours was through music and you are life
coaching addicts and prisoners.
And I think you're a saint inthat way.
And I think it's super cool.

SPEAKER_00 (43:15):
Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 (43:17):
One last question.
What are you most proud of?

SPEAKER_00 (43:20):
What am I most proud of?
What am I most proud of?
That's a funny...
Because proud is like, it couldbe very negative, you know?
No, in a positive way.
Yeah, in a positive...
Well...
I got to say, you know, I thinkmy family, you know, I'm most
proud of, like, my children, mythree daughters, who turned out

(43:46):
to be beautiful women and justgiving people.
And my granddaughters, and nowmy great-grandfather.

SPEAKER_01 (43:54):
Wow, what a

SPEAKER_00 (43:55):
blessing.
I have a little one calledBeatrice, who is just a ball of
butter.
She's a joy.
So I would say I'm proud of myfamily.

SPEAKER_01 (44:05):
That's awesome.
Good answer.
Okay, I have one other lastquestion.
What's your favorite song thatyou didn't write?

SPEAKER_00 (44:14):
I had a hand in everything.
Even if I didn't write it, I wasprobably...
But I would say...
I would say Abraham, Martin, andJohn.
My friend Dick Holla.
That came out of him first, outof frustration.
And I put it together in a...

(44:35):
I think in a beautiful way.
And it's become kind of aclassic in a way.

SPEAKER_01 (44:40):
I love it.
Okay, great.
Well, thank you so much forspeaking with us and really
speaking your wisdom.
I feel like I learned a lot.
And thank you for your book.
I can't wait to read it.

SPEAKER_00 (44:56):
Well, yeah, I think you'll enjoy it.
It's...
The

SPEAKER_01 (45:01):
Rock and Roll Philosopher.

SPEAKER_00 (45:03):
yeah what a full

SPEAKER_01 (45:06):
life you've had

SPEAKER_00 (45:07):
i tell you i i think i think the gift of music opened
up my whole life because itraveled and i i meet all these
wonderful people and i i've beenaround for so long i feel like
forest gump you know i knewbuddy holly and sam cook and
jackie wilson from wow from theearly days and I started with

(45:31):
Ray Charles and Aretha Franklin.
the stories about Bob Dylan andPaul Simon in the book.
There's a lot of like- Supercool.
Just street music that got mestarted and it just opened up my
whole life.
So I just feel so blessed and Ifeel like I, especially God

(45:52):
pouring his love into my life, Ifeel like I found a privileged
way to live.

SPEAKER_01 (45:56):
Thank you so much for coming in and speaking with
us today, Dion, and make sureyou all go on Amazon and
purchase the

SPEAKER_00 (46:05):
it's been a pleasure being with you today Ira thank
you

SPEAKER_01 (46:10):
thank you