From Homelessness to Hope: Jessica Echeberry’s Inspiring Journey

In this heartfelt episode, Jessica Echeberry shares her powerful journey from a traumatic childhood marked by abuse and homelessness to becoming a dedicated family and homeless advocate. Growing up in a broken home with little faith influence, Jessica faced unimaginable challenges, including sexual assault and running away from home at a young age. Despite the pain and rebellion, she found strength through faith and resilience. Listen as Jessica opens up about survival on the streets, the complexities of trauma, and how sharing her story has given her life new purpose. This episode is a moving reminder of the strength of the human spirit and the importance of compassion and understanding in healing. Perfect for those interested in social issues, faith, and personal transformation.

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I get pregnant.
That changes everything.
I didn't know at the time thatmy family was for abortions.
You know, if you want to stayhere, you have to go get the
abortion.
I was talking with some woman onthe bus one night and she was
like, oh, I have a room that Ican rent you.
And so we went there and endedup being a room in a crack and

(00:20):
prostitution house.
So I just started learning howto live on the streets.
What I tell people is that thestreet itself has its own
economy, right?
There are things that homelesspeople do in order to survive
and live.
It's just to take what you do inyour normal life and just flip
it upside down.
There's income, there's work,there's family, there's all of

(00:42):
that stuff on the street.
It's just, it's all bad.

SPEAKER_02 (00:46):
We're here today, Beyond Saint, with Jessica
Echeberry.
Did I say that right?
Yes, you did.
Okay, I think you have a really,really interesting and inspiring
story.
It's like...
from the bottom of, like, Ithink the worst condition
someone could be in to, like, Ithink the best someone could be

(01:09):
in.
But before that, before we getinto that, I think we have to
brag a little about you.
You are a family advocate,advocate for the homeless.
You are a mother, devoutCatholic wife, and lots of other
things.
So...

(01:30):
Why don't we talk a little bitabout your background, and do
you feel comfortable sharingyour story with us?

SPEAKER_00 (01:36):
Yes, yeah.
I mean, I feel like whenever Ihave an opportunity to share my
story, that it gives purpose tothe things that have happened.
Otherwise, it's just thesereally painful things that I
experienced that...
we're just there and can juststay painful.
So yes, I'm not sure, like startfrom.

SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
I would start from the very beginning.
I mean, how was your upbringing?

SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
Growing up, I categorized the home I lived in
as a broken home.
So my parents divorced before Iwas a year old.
And so, and they both haddivorces and remarriages, about
three total.
And so it created an environmentfor me where there were like

(02:22):
step parents and there was astep sister at one point and
then she was gone.
And so in that kind ofenvironment, unfortunately, even
statistics say that the greaterchances are there for abuse
situations.
And that's a part of my story isthat at 10 years old, I suffered

(02:46):
sexual abuse.
And yeah, and then at 12 yearsold, I suffered sexual assault,
rape.
And in those circumstances, atthe times that those were
happening, it was kind of likebecause my parents were in their

(03:06):
own woundedness, right?
couldn't really be there for meand I didn't share with them
what I had experienced right sothere's that division and
disconnection I ended up justkind of what I call packing it
into boxes and just shoving itdown into my being into my soul
and that's how I just kind ofkept going but it was after my

(03:30):
sexual assault at 12 that Irealized yeah yeah 12 is

SPEAKER_02 (03:37):
was it somebody your age or adult

SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
no um it was it was the in-between age so it was
like I'm 12 it wasn'tnecessarily an adult but it was
um you know a senior in highschool that had come over to the
middle school at an event um andso it was somebody that I knew
and it was somebody that I wasfamiliar with and it was

(04:01):
somebody that in a sense Itrusted um which put me in a
situation where he could thenisolate me and have that
opportunity.
So it was shocking.
And life-changing.
Of course.
It's so traumatic.
Life-changing.
And then, of course, thefeeling.
And I think a lot of sexualabuse victims and survivors

(04:24):
start to then take that on asthey've done something wrong.
And so...
They've done something wrong,like to invite it?
Either to invite it, or theymade the wrong decision, or
somehow, some way, this is theirfault.
Because it happened.
Because you don't really know,especially at that age, when
you're a child and that happens,you...

(04:45):
I didn't understand what allthat was.
I mean, you see on TV and ratedR movies that you sneak to watch
and you get a little peeksometimes and it's like, oh, but
you don't understand what thatreally is and what that feels
like and all of that.
So, yeah, I disassociated.

(05:06):
I immediately disassociated frommy experience.

UNKNOWN (05:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:11):
And I mean, really all I remember about it was just
staring at the cracks in theconcrete in the building that I
was looking up at.
And so, yeah, and then it wasdone.
And it was like, okay, what do Ido with this again?
I don't have a home life where Ican bring this to.

(05:32):
And so I kept it inside and justsaid, you know what, Jess, this
is now the second thing likethis that has happened to you.
You know, I just, I just toldhim that you're on your own.
Like you've got to just do foryourself.
You've got to like you in asense, harden up and just.

SPEAKER_02 (05:51):
Because you didn't feel protected.
No.
By like the person you knew oryour parents or like.
Or the world just did notprotect you.

SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
Yeah, no.
And look, and that was a timewhere, you know, kids can jump
on their bikes and be gone allday at their friends' houses and
all around the neighborhood.
And, you know, when the sun wasgoing down and the street lights
came on was when you had to behome.

SPEAKER_02 (06:13):
The world was relatively innocent.

SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
It was.
It was.
But it was also that environmentallows for people with ill will
to...
Have opportunities and takeadvantage.
And unfortunately, that's whathappened with my situation.
And that created...
you know, like a rebellion inme.
I was angry at the world now.
I didn't know how to process thetrauma that I'd been through.

(06:37):
I was blaming it on myself.
And I didn't know what to dowith all that.
And that turned into just thisinterior kind of rage and
reaction to the world where Iwas tough.
Nobody was going to do anythingto me.
And I'm making my own decisionsand not listening to anybody.
And so I became, you know, therebellious teenager at home And

(07:00):
your parents had no clue why?
No.

SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
No, they didn't.
And was there faith in your homegrowing up?

SPEAKER_00 (07:06):
No.
No.
So...
It's funny because when Ilearned about my parents, more
about my own parents' story,which has kind of like unraveled
and I've learned more throughoutthe years, especially now that
I'm getting older, is that myparents, when they first met one
another, were like hardcoreChristians.
Really?
Yes.

(07:27):
Yeah.
They were like hardcoreChristians, you know?
Yeah.
But, and I can't speak on theirstory, but it didn't last, and
the house that, you know, myparents divorced, and then the
remarriage happened, and I waswith my mom and her husband at
the time, and And either ofvisiting my dad, there was no

(07:50):
prayer.
There was no we're going tochurch.
There was no, like, don't worry,God's got you.
There was none of that dialogue.
It was very secular dialogue.
It was very worldly.
We lived in the world.
And I honestly didn't thinkanything of it.
My biggest religious influencegrowing up was my nana, my dad's

(08:12):
mom.
My dad was raised Catholic allthe way up to his confirmation,
but ended up leaving the churchand going into...
Happens a lot.
Yeah, yeah.
Going into that, you know,leaving the church and just
living kind of in the world, butthen falling into what's

(08:32):
Protestant Christianity.
Yeah.
And to this day, he's an amazingProtestant Christian, right?
He never returned back to theCatholic Church.
And he did end up finding hisway back.
But no, growing up, there wasnone of that.
My nana, I used to watch herpray the rosary at her kitchen
table and read her Bible.

(08:55):
She had in her little trailer,she didn't have a lot of money.
She lived in a trailer in atrailer park, 55 plus.
And I remember going through thehall in her trailer and just
kind of, you know, as a littlekid, you run your hand along
stuff.
And I ran my hand along her walland it hit this picture.
And it was Jesus.

(09:16):
And it was like the 70s, likevelvet.
I can

SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
visualize

SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
it already.
Picture, you know, like it'slike the Jesus part was like all
velvety and soft.
And then his heart was likepuffy and came out.
So it was the sacred heart ofJesus picture.

SPEAKER_02 (09:30):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
70s style.
And I remember like running myhand across.
and my hand hitting that heartand just looking up at him just
in that moment.
Just being like, huh.
And then just keeping going,right?
And then when I eventually...
It stuck with you.
Yeah, it stuck with me when Ibecame a Catholic.
I was like, oh.
And I refer to that moment asthere was a moment when I was a
child where I put my hand on thevelvety heart of Jesus, right?

(09:54):
So there's little moments likethat.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (09:58):
but...
And then, okay, so you gothrough your rebellious stage
and then...
I remember you said youexperienced homelessness.

SPEAKER_00 (10:08):
Yeah, so I became a really big problem at home.
Okay.
Really big problem.
And my mom and her husband atthe time had had a baby
together, my half-sister.
And so their focus was on, youknow, her.
And so they were afraid of myinfluence on her.
And so I started running away.
I didn't want to be at homeanymore.

(10:28):
At 12?
At 14.
14, okay.
So now I'm 14.
I'm in high school.
I start running away.
I start sleeping in my friend'scloset so that their parents
don't know that I'm there.
I crawl in their window at nightand just go sleep in their
closets.
And your mom has no clue aboutthe rape?

(10:49):
No.
My family didn't know about thatfor a very, very long time.
A very, very long time.
But that's how it started.
And then...
my parents would find out that Iwasn't there and that I had run
away and then the police wouldbring me back.
And then sometimes the policewouldn't bring me back that I'd
end up getting put in a grouphome.

(11:10):
So then I lived in a few grouphomes until finally it got to
the point where, um, my momsaid, there's a family member
that you can live with, right?
So it's, you're not in thishostile household.
You're not creating this, allthis drama here for us.
Um, and hopefully you'll behappy over here.
So I went to go live with thatfamily member.
Um, And just went back to my oldhigh school.

(11:35):
So in the moment, I was reallyhappy.
Can I interrupt for one second?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Was there anything that your parents could have
done that could have helped youat that point?
Like any sort of intervention?
Like you feel that could haveworked?
Or were you just like a runawaytrain headed for this?

SPEAKER_00 (11:52):
That's a great question.
I don't think anybody's everasked me that.
I would say, and to give myparents grace because they were
in their own woundedness, thatthere was definitely things that
if they had worked on themselvesin a sense would have recognized

(12:13):
when I was younger.
By this time where I'm runningaway and doing all this, no, I
would say I was that runawaytrain.
But even still 14, even 16 yearsold, you're still young.
Your

SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
brain's not even developed.

SPEAKER_00 (12:30):
Yeah, that's a hard question.
I'm sure that the answer to thatquestion is yes, but my final
answer would be, but it's okay.

UNKNOWN (12:41):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (12:41):
Yeah.
No, no, yeah.
I'm not saying like a blamething.
I'm just saying for other peopleout there, what do you think
your parents could have said ordone that maybe would be like,
hey, maybe I'm not on the rightpath?
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 (12:54):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
When I share with parents whohave rebellious teenagers, the
stuff that I share with them islike a child is acting out.
because they're in some type ofwoundedness and trauma.
It's not because they're bad,right?
And so instead of seeingbehaviors, and again, I think

(13:16):
this goes with the time in whichwe grew up.
At that time, all the mentalhealth awareness wasn't there.
So at that time, it's as if youwere acting out at home, you
were just being bad.

SPEAKER_02 (13:27):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
So they were a victim to what we were doing as
a society at that time as well,where now we're just so much
more aware.
And I think parents have thatawareness now that, oh, if my
child is screaming and yellingat me and throwing things across
the room, something here hashappened.

SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
Not, oh, they hate me and you need to get out.
Right?
Right.
So I think we just,

SPEAKER_02 (13:54):
honestly, our parents didn't know any better
and we didn't even know how tocommunicate ourselves.

UNKNOWN (14:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (14:00):
That was your way of communicating your pain.
We didn't have all these TikTokvideos about attachment style
and about even praying.
We didn't have.
Our only resource was our goofyfriends.
Getting on my bike and riding tomy friend's house.
Exactly.

(14:21):
Cosping about how awful ourparents were.
Right,

SPEAKER_00 (14:24):
right.
Playing, you know, like an albumwe weren't allowed to listen to
on the record player is a way torebel.
Yes, totally.

SPEAKER_02 (14:30):
Gosh, we kind of got ripped off.
We really did.
We did.
My daughter, like, has, all ofour kids, they have access to
everything.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (14:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
Okay, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (14:43):
Keep going.
Yeah, no, I love that.
I love that.
And it's true.
And it also helps me to thinkdeeper about that time because
sometimes, and this is whatwoundedness and trauma does,
especially because we have anenemy that wants to use it
against us, is we can stay stuckin just that part of it and not
look at the fullness of it.

(15:04):
And

SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
sometimes being stuck is very satisfying.
Yes.
And it keeps us in some...
Sort of an addiction cycle tobeing the victim.

SPEAKER_00 (15:16):
Yes.
Yeah.
There was a lot of, this isdefinitely my victimhood age was
here.
I was definitely acting out asthe victim and in rebellion to
that.
Yeah, definitely.
And so now I'm 16 and I'm livingat my family member's house and

(15:37):
I have a high school sweetheartand So I'm dating a guy in high
school and I get pregnant.
And so that changes everything.
I didn't know at the time thatmy family was for abortion.
and not keeping the child.

(15:57):
Honestly, all of it was just sonew to me.
But I didn't have that support.
My family was, you know, if youwanna stay here, you have to go
get the abortion.
And for me, it was like, okay.
Okay, I'll go get that.
Obviously, I want somewhere tolive.
And so I tried.
I went into the abortionfacility three times total.

(16:21):
My friend on our lunch break inhigh school, she drove me there.
And the first time I went in, Iwas so nervous, and I put a fake
name down and filled out thepaper, and I was sitting waiting
to be called, and I just...
Wait, I have to interrupt again.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (16:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
An adult said you have to get the abortion and
who's pro-choice and didn't eventake you, like, just to support
you in that?

SPEAKER_00 (16:46):
No, no.
Wow.
Look, there's a lot that I don'tremember.
It's really, like,

SPEAKER_02 (16:53):
a lot of abandonment.

SPEAKER_00 (16:57):
Yes.
Yeah.

UNKNOWN (16:58):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
Yeah, and I think, again, with that age, right,
that season, that society wasin, I think that was, like, the
biggest thing.
Yeah.
What looked like independenceand freedom was really just
neglect and abandonment for themost part.
That's what I think, yeah.
So it's like, yeah, so, yeah,one of my closest friends at
lunch break, and I went in, andI was sitting there, and I was

(17:21):
just petrified.
I didn't know what it was.
I didn't know.
I was just there just to do itso that I would have a place to
live, but I got like a hot flashcome over me and I got really
nauseated and I was like I can'tdo this and I and I chickened
out and I left and then I toldmy friend to take me back and so
she took me back and I gotfurther I got into the triage

(17:42):
nurse where they take your bloodpressure and they ask you about
your cycles and all that stuffbut then it happened again I had
a hot flash and got nauseatedand I was like no no no I can't
and I left And then my friendwas like, are you sure you want
to do this?
I was like, I have to do this.
And so she took me back thethird time and I got all the way
in.
I was on the gurney.

(18:03):
I was in the gown.
The nurse came in.
She was about to put theTwilight medicine in my arm and
I got nauseated and hot again.
And I was just like, I, no, Ican't do this.
And I left.
And my friend actually got kindof frustrated with me when she
saw me back in the car.
She's like, okay, done.
I was like, no.
She's like, And then she's theone who said, I know where to

(18:27):
take you.
And so she drove me to apregnancy center, like a life
pregnancy center.
She's like, you're going thereand talk to those ladies in
there.
And so I remember everything waslike mirrored.
It was just like, you know, theshape of the pregnant woman on
the outside with the phonenumber.
And I walked in and probably thesweetest woman in the world that

(18:48):
I've ever met walked up to meand was like, hi, you know, how
can I help you?
And she took me into this room.
I have like a loveseat couch anda big TV and a VCR.
And she's like, we're just goingto show you some videos and then
we'll talk about how you feel.
And I was like, okay.
So she put the video and there'sall these videos of these girls,
my age.
talking bouncing babies on theirknees or like really pregnant

(19:09):
talking about their baby and Iwas like and that's when it hit
me for the first time like ababy it's a baby and Like I have
a baby inside of me right now.
And so considering, you know, Ididn't have a good relationship
with my parents.
I had lots of people in and outof my life.
I suffered trauma withmale-female relationships with

(19:32):
my abuse and assaults.
The first thing that I went towas it's my own person.

SPEAKER_01 (19:38):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (19:38):
Like I'm going to have my own person.
And so that means that thisperson's like going to love me
and like love me the way I wantto be loved.
Right.
And I get to love it the way Iwant it.
So I was like, oh, yeah, I'mtotally down for this.
Like, let's have a baby.
Wow.
Yeah.
Wow.
My parents, my family wasn'tbudging.
It was, yeah, the abortion ornothing.

SPEAKER_02 (20:01):
You decided to keep the baby.

SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Yes, I decided to keep the baby.
And my boyfriend at the time waslike, yeah, okay, great.
But then I needed to find aplace to live.

SPEAKER_02 (20:09):
It's so mean to say you could only stay if you get
an abortion.

SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Yeah.
Yeah, what I've learnedthroughout the years going
through my own trauma and inwalking other people through
theirs now is that we can healfrom it And help where we can
stay in it and just continue tobe a slave to it.
And my parents were slaves totheir own woundedness.

(20:38):
My family was still living intheir woundedness.
So, but yeah, no, it wasdefinitely life changing.
The only place we could find, myboyfriend at the time, was a
room for rent in This woman hebefriended riding the city bus
home from work.
He was a grocery bagger at agrocery store.

(21:00):
And he was talking with somewoman on the bus one night and
she was like, oh, I have a roomthat I can rent you for your
pregnant girlfriend.
And he was like, okay, great.
And so we went there and endedup being a room in a crack and
prostitution house.
Yeah, so.
That's

SPEAKER_02 (21:21):
so awful.

SPEAKER_00 (21:22):
Yeah, no.
So sorry, that just sucks.
Yes, it did.
I don't

SPEAKER_02 (21:28):
know how other words, choice of words to use
other than it sucks.

SPEAKER_00 (21:32):
Yeah, no, and I appreciate that because that's
like the genuine reaction tothat statement that I made.
And a lot of times that I sharewith people is a part of healing
from your woundedness is whenpeople don't respond properly
really appropriately to whatyou're sharing right because it
makes them uncomfortable so i ithank you for that like it did

(21:54):
suck

SPEAKER_02 (21:55):
and it feels predatory like

SPEAKER_00 (21:57):
yeah

SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
she didn't it feels when you said that it felt to me
like her intention was not torent you a room but like get you
somehow dialed into her nastylifestyle yes

SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
yes because that is the woundedness she's living in
yes and that she's experiencingand trying to live in and stay
in the stuff that she doesn'twant to change.

SPEAKER_02 (22:18):
And you see mine, I'm coming from a place of, and
now I'm getting angry.
Right.
Because now like, I can't like,I can't empathize with her pain
because I can't like, Even ifyou're in pain, don't draw
others into it.
That's right.
You know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I'm sorry.
It's getting me mad.
You're getting me worked up.

SPEAKER_00 (22:36):
Okay.
All right.

SPEAKER_02 (22:38):
Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
No, no.
Okay, so she lives in a crackhouse.
Yes.
She basically ran that house,her and her husband.
Oh, it's a family affair.
Yes, because there were childrenthere as well.
Yeah.
This was, I will say that thiswas one of the hardest
experiences I lived throughwas...

(23:03):
Sorry.
Just witnessing the depravity.

SPEAKER_02 (23:12):
I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Yeah.
Yeah, that lives in that.
Can you grab your mama tissue?
Yeah, thanks.
It's like the bathroom's

SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
right there.
Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (23:21):
No, it's okay.
I mean, this is...
The actions are all there,right?
And so whenever I share them,it's like they're present.
Just like if I remember mywedding day and I smile because
it was a great memory, right?
So yeah, because there werechildren there and that was the
part that was the hardest forme.

(23:47):
Sorry.
Thank you.
Toilet paper.
It's okay.
Yes.
And it was filthy.
I mean, cockroaches everywhere,just filth.
It was literally filth.
My room, obviously, I locked thedoor and I was there and stayed

(24:08):
just out of everything as muchas I could.
But it was horrific.
It's hell.
The lack of light and holinessand God, it's literally evil
where evil lives.
And that's what I wasexperiencing.
Now, I did call my mom one nightafter a few months that I was
there and I couldn't take itanymore.

(24:29):
And I told her some of thethings that I had experienced
and seen.
And she drove immediately andcame and got me out of there.
But the concern was, again, Ihad a younger sister that they
didn't want to know that I waspregnant.
And so...
They had to get me somewhere.
So my mom actually found aChristian home for unwed mothers

(24:51):
to put me in.
Um, and it was really nice.
It was, you know, like a really,it's a big, beautiful home.
Like back then I'd call that, itwas like a mansion to me.
Um, it just had lots of roomsand it was run by a Protestant
church as kind of a family styleenvironment.
So it had a house mom and ahouse dad.
And then there was just usgirls, you know, who were

(25:14):
pregnant and in our situation.
But what I didn't know is thatin order to stay there, you had
to promise to give your baby upfor adoption.
Yeah.
Oh, gosh.
Yeah.
The hits

SPEAKER_02 (25:25):
just keep coming.

SPEAKER_00 (25:27):
Oh, we just started.
Okay.
Yeah, so I enjoyed my timethere.
I lied through my teeth that Iwas going to give my baby up for
adoption, but I wasn't planningon it at all.
I wanted to keep my child.
I'm not mad at those lies.
Yeah.
yeah so and my boyfriend and ibroke up we just we couldn't

(25:50):
survive what i was going throughum so we were no longer together
and somehow somewhere in thattime where i'm pregnant he
decides that it's best that i dogive the baby up for adoption
and so now everybody around meis encouraging me just to give
the baby up for adoption And sothat's what I decided to do.

(26:14):
Because I had no place to liveafterwards.
If I didn't give him up foradoption, I couldn't bring him
back to the maternity home.
I couldn't bring him home to myparents.
And now my boyfriend's tellingme that they weren't going to
take us either.
My ex-boyfriend.
So I agreed to it.
And he was due on Christmas Day,actually.
But he was two weeks late.

(26:36):
So he came January 7th.
And it was hard.
I was in there by myself.

SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
Your mom wasn't with

SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
you?
My mom was at the hospital withmy ex-boyfriend.
So they were in the waitingroom.

SPEAKER_01 (26:51):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (26:51):
But they were in the waiting room the whole time.
I was there by myself.
And, unfortunate for me, I gotnurses that were so disgusted by
the fact that there was such ayoung girl having a baby.
And they didn't hold back theirfeelings.
I remember being on the deliverytable and giving up pushing

(27:11):
because I didn't...
Again, I've never experiencedthis before.
Nobody told me what it was goingto feel like.
And I'm in the worst pain of mylife about to push out a baby
that they're going to take fromme.
So...
So much

SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
trauma.

SPEAKER_00 (27:29):
I gave up.
I just stopped pushing.
Oh.
And the nurse was very upset atme.
And I'll never forget what shesaid.
She looked at the doctor.
And she said, see, this is whybabies shouldn't be having
babies.
And you know what?
In a way, it's true.
There's truth in what she said.
She

SPEAKER_02 (27:49):
could have whispered it to him rather than tell you,
like make you feeluncomfortable.
You're already.

SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Right.
But it's like bad timing on herpart, really, I would think.
And she got up over me and shefinished pushing him out by
pushing on the top of mystomach.
Yeah.
So in it.
And that was very painful.
So it was a painful birth.
And, yeah, they brought him tome.

(28:19):
And I got to spend an hour withhim, my new son.
His name is Brandon.
And I just remember just crying.
Yeah, like, I want to take mybaby home.
Oh, wait, I don't have a home togo to.
That's so

SPEAKER_02 (28:35):
sad.

SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (28:37):
Yeah.
I can't cry.
I have another interview afterthis.
Sorry.
I'm not trying to make light ofthe situation and make stupid
jokes about my

SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
stupid makeup.
No, it's fine.
It's fine.
I

SPEAKER_02 (28:49):
have to get it together.
All right.
Yeah.
Okay, so Brandon's born.

SPEAKER_00 (28:55):
Yep.
I spend an hour with him in thehospital.
I beg everybody, even myex-boyfriend, please, let's just
figure it out.
Nope.
They get shut down, and I leave.
I leave the hospital and go backto the maternity home.
without them and just fall intoa seriously deep depression.
I mean, I'm 16.
You know, I'm 16 years old.
I don't think a

SPEAKER_02 (29:16):
40-year-old could process

SPEAKER_00 (29:17):
that.
Right?
I mean, they just took my kidfrom me against my will.
You know what I mean?
So it's like, hello, I'm goingto be depressed and not want to
talk and eat and do thosethings.
For good reason.
Yes.
And then a couple daysafterwards, my ex-boyfriend
called and said, my family hasbeen praying about it, and we
want you to get the baby back.

UNKNOWN (29:40):
Oh.

SPEAKER_00 (29:41):
And so now it's like-

SPEAKER_02 (29:42):
Emotional rollercoaster.

SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Right, it's like, of course, I'm like, yes, right?
And so now he went into fostercare.
He didn't go into an adoptivefamily.
So there was nothing donethrough the courts.
So all I had to do was justnullify the papers I signed and
they would bring them back.
And so they brought them back tous.
And so I was in myex-boyfriend's living room, his

(30:06):
family's house, with mytwo-week-old new baby I'm two
weeks postpartum.
And I spent the whole day therejust being a mom to him.
And then at about 11.30 atnight, you know, he comes in and
he's like, okay, you got to go.
Like my parents said, you can'tstay.

(30:27):
What is going on?
I know.
I know.
People and their woundedness.
Yes.
This is why healing yourwoundedness is so important,
people.

UNKNOWN (30:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
Yes, your woundedness affects others.
It does.
I mean,

SPEAKER_02 (30:47):
you can be wounded and still have empathy for
someone.

SPEAKER_00 (30:51):
Yeah, yeah.
You can.

SPEAKER_02 (30:54):
You know, we all carry around wounds, but also,
like, maybe know how to do untoothers, too.

SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:05):
You know, I know lots of people who've been...
under like yourself, evenunresolved trauma,

SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
you know?
That's

SPEAKER_02 (31:13):
still, for the most part, know how to behave.

SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:16):
Okay, sorry, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 (31:18):
No, no, I love your comments.
You're making me think so muchdeeper about all this too.
I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02 (31:25):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (31:26):
So I left.
And I went to the beach.
Now this was in Fort Lauderdale,Florida, because that's where
all this was occurring.
That's where I'm fromoriginally.
And I went to the beach.
It was the only place I knew.
I always loved the sound of theocean waves.
And so I'm sure that hadsomething to do with it.
But I also, the sand was morecomfortable than an alley or a

(31:50):
concrete something or a bench orsomething.
And so I went to the beach.
And I just thought, okay, justone eye open.
You've been through worse, Jess.
Just once you see that sun comeup out of the water, you got
this.
Like, you could totally do this.
And so I hyped myself up into,like, just getting through that
first night.

(32:11):
And sure enough, the sun came upout of the ocean.
And I was just like, I feltlike, honestly, now that I think
about it, I felt prettypowerful.
Like, you just lived throughthis.
Conquered.
Yeah.
It makes you tough overnight.
Right.
And immediately I was like, oh,yeah, let's go.
Like, let's do this.
But I was hungry.
Now I remember because I'm liketwo weeks postpartum, 16 years

(32:34):
old.
So bad.
Right?
On the beach.
Now I'm like hungry, you know.

SPEAKER_02 (32:40):
Wait a second.
You didn't go back to yourboyfriends?
No.
Like they were just taking thebaby and not like...
And you can't, you're not gonnabe a part of it?
Like, that was the vibe?

SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
Well, the vibe was he's gonna stay here, but you're
not.

SPEAKER_02 (32:54):
So you get to go back every single day and hang
out with the baby?
Yes.
That was kind of the assumption?

SPEAKER_00 (32:59):
I don't think they wanted me every single day.
No, it was kind of, you can comevisit.
Yeah.
Got it.
Yeah.
So, and I was hungry, so Istarted going through the
garbages in front of theMcDonald's there.
And, um...
Yep, and...
you know long story short isthat there were a group of other
homeless youth my age older upto like early 20s that ran Fort

(33:26):
Lauderdale Beach that ran thestreets that were homeless and
lived out there and that wastheir culture and way of life
for whatever reason whateverreason put them out there and
they immediately identified melike immediately out of the gate
they're like You're brand new,you know?
And approached me and startedtalking to me.
And yeah, so that's 16.

(33:49):
So I just started learning howto live on the streets through
them.
We would work the system, right?
We'd go into, one of us would gointo like a shelter and get all
the stuff and then leave at acertain time before, you know,
like child protective serviceswould be called or we'd be
snatched up and put into likethe system.
Um...
And we just bring out resourcesfor all of us.

(34:13):
We do that.
What I tell people is that thestreet itself has its own
economy.
There are things that homelesspeople do in order to survive
and live.
And the best way that I've...
learned how to explain is justto take what you do in your
normal life and just flip itupside down, right?

(34:35):
So it's like, there's income,there's work, there's family,
there's all of that stuff on thestreet.
It's just, it's all, bad.
It's all not coming from good,but coming from evil in a sense,
right?
Or your employment, right?
What do we do in order to makemoney?
We prostitute, we steal, weburglarize, we fraud, right?

(34:58):
All of that stuff is the workthat you get up and you go do in
order to get the resources thatyou need.

SPEAKER_02 (35:06):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 (35:07):
Yeah.
And that's your family.
Who is watching your back?
Who is helping you get that nextresource becomes your family and
your kin so to speak so you havefamily you have relationship you
have work right and then it'sjust all about surviving like
there's not a single homelessperson that you will probably

(35:29):
ever meet that will tell youthat they want to die you know
they they wake up to live reallyright we have this innate part
of ourselves it's just who weare as human beings especially
you know as when we becomechristians and learn to whom we
belong belong and who createdus, right?
We were made for life.
We have this desire, this, youknow, this desire to live,

(35:51):
right?
No matter what yourcircumstances are, like, and
that's what I felt.
And that's what we all felt.
That's what we were doing.
But it was, you know, it wasdepravity.
I mean, I was doing things thatwere not just wrong against
other people, but just wrongagainst myself, you know, not
really caring for myself.

(36:12):
Because I didn't know.
But that lifestyle requires you.
You have to commit to it.
There's no in between.
Have you seen your baby at allin this time?
Not really.
Here and there.
Every once in a while I will.
But...
And I don't know why.
I don't remember.

(36:32):
But I would say that I think itwas too difficult to not have
him.
And so...
it was easier for me to pretendlike he didn't exist.
And so I didn't, I didn't goover much.
I didn't, and I was a street kidpretty much.
So I was living that life andthose two lives.

(36:56):
And that's what I'm saying.
It's like, you can't have onefoot in one and one foot in the
other.
The street requires you to fullycommit or you'll literally die
or just lose your mind.
And so I ended up just fullycommitting into that way of
life.
Very rare connections with myfamily every once in a while,

(37:19):
maybe going in and being a partof something for my family, but
not really.
I was in and out of my nana'strailer.
She wanted me to move in withher, but I didn't do that
because she would have beenthrown out because it was a 55
plus place.
So I would go there for reprieveand just spend time, spend a

(37:41):
night there and be with her.
She was my closest.
person, my nana.
But no, I was all in.
I was all in.
I was fully good.
I mean, I'd always been superintelligent in school.
I was tested for the giftedprogram in kindergarten.
I was very artistic andcreative, kind of like just all

(38:06):
across the board excelled inschool and learned things very
quickly.
put my mind to things and gotthem done, like executed and
accomplished it.
So that was just a part of mypersonality just as a person.
So when I hit the streets, thatrequirement to put all that into

(38:28):
motion really benefited me.
You have to be smart.
Yeah.
To live on the streets.
Yes.
Yes.
And I didn't use drugs oralcohol.
And that shocks a lot of peoplebecause a lot of people who end
up on the streets turn to drugsand alcohol as a way to kind of
numb what your experiences arein coping yes I didn't and the

(38:50):
reason why I didn't is because Ineeded to be have full autonomy
over my mind and my personbecause of my sexual assault and
rape so the crazy thing isyou're opening up the

SPEAKER_02 (39:03):
door for that if you're into

SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
alcohol exactly so those incidences kept me from
falling into drugs and alcoholon the streets and so I know it
sounds crazy No, it does not.
But it's like, I thank God forthat because my life would have
been completely different.

SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
Maybe you wouldn't be here right now.

SPEAKER_00 (39:22):
I wouldn't.
I wouldn't.
I definitely wouldn't be hereright now.
So yeah, I went all in.
And then at 18, I got pregnantagain.

SPEAKER_01 (39:31):
Well,

SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
yep, I got pregnant again.
And at that time, it was dark.
Everything was dark.
Everything I was doing was dark.
It was wrong.
It was sinful.
There was no good in anything Iwas doing.
And that was the voice that Ilistened to.
And the voice that spoke to mewas, the best thing you can do
for this baby is to have anabortion, is to get rid of it.

(39:54):
And that sounded like truth.
straight up truth to me becauseof where I was at in my life and
it was like yeah and that voicewas constant it was like you
know what happens to kids outhere you see what happens to
children in those houses likeyou what are you going to do
with a kid out here you knowwhat's going to happen to it
what kind of mother are youright

SPEAKER_02 (40:14):
I mean it's normal questions anybody would ask
themselves

SPEAKER_00 (40:18):
yeah and so that was the voice that I that I listened
to and so I did um I went in at18 and to the abortion clinic
and had that abortion.
And it was...
It was hard.
I remember going in just numb.

(40:38):
Just feeling completely numbabout the whole thing.
Because that's just how my lifewas at the time.
You're just numb to everything.
You're just like barrelingthrough everything.
And I went in there barrelingthrough this.
And...
And I remember when it's done, Idon't remember when it happened
because they gave me theTwilight, but I remember waking
up in a big recliner in a dimmedroom, like a darkened room.

(41:03):
There was a TV in the cornerblasting whatever daytime show
was on.
It was just so loud.
And just the room was circled inrecliners, big, comfortable
recliners.
And in all of the recliners,there were girls sitting in
them.
like coming out of this drug.
And I remember looking at thatand just being like, what have I

(41:23):
done?
What have I done here?
There's just something so wrongabout how I felt when I came to
in that room.
And I started to regret what Iwas doing.
And I got into the car and theperson that had taken me just
looked at me and I startedsharing that regret.
They just looked at me and theysaid, this didn't happen.
Don't ever speak of it again.
They said, you have to have thatmindset.

(41:47):
And I was like, okay.
And that was it.
I literally took that and put itin a box and shoved it deeper
than any other wound I hadexperienced and forgotten about
it.
Just completely forgotten aboutit.
But I go back to that wanting tolive because after I had that
abortion, I didn't want to liveanymore.

(42:07):
That was gone.
That desire to survive and livewas just zapped from me.
Um, and I wasn't interested inany of it.
And so I attempted suicide forthe first time.

SPEAKER_02 (42:19):
Oh, sorry.
Gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (42:21):
Yep.
So sad.
Yeah.
Um, luckily I'm here.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (42:28):
Luckily you failed.

SPEAKER_00 (42:29):
Someone failed.
Someone found me.
Um, I, I took a whole bunch ofjust bottles and bottles of
prescription drugs and downed itwith a half a bottle of whiskey
and, um, yeah, and ended uphitting the floor and apparently
when I hit the floor, that soundgot somebody else's attention
and brought them into the room.

(42:49):
And there's one memory I havewhere I'm laying on the floor I
remember doing that, but then Iremember waking up and seeing a
person over me literallysmacking me across the face,
trying to get me conscious.
I have a flash of that, and thenI'm out.
I don't remember anything elseagain, but I do remember that.

(43:10):
Wow.
And then I wake up in thehospital, and I was pissed.
I was so mad.
I was so mad.
I yelled at the doctors.
I yelled at the person who savedmy life.
I was like, how could you bringme back to this?
That was the state that I wasin.
And I went back out there.

(43:32):
I was back out there, prettymuch.
In abusive situations, domesticviolence, suffering in those
relationships.
Living with this roommate hereand that roommate there, but
then back out on the street orliving in the car here.
It was just very random.

(43:53):
And then my Nana passed.
Can't catch a break, Jessica.
You just cannot catch a break.
Nope, my Nana passed.
And that crushed me.
That just crushed me.
And I was like, you know what?
I'm done.
I'm so done.

(44:13):
I'm going to do it to wherenobody can find me this time.
Where nobody has a chance tosave me.
And so the car that I had at thetime was a Monte Carlo.
It was super fast.
And I took this road.
We're still in Florida here inthis part of my life.
And I took this road.
It was like 3 o'clock in themorning.

(44:34):
I didn't put my seatbelt on.
I got in my car.
And I took this road that leadsout to the swamps.
And I thought, I'm just, andit's a long road, like 441 all
the way out to the end at thattime.
It's all built up now at thattime.
I knew that by the time I got tothe end, I would have gone so
fast in that car that even if Ichanged my mind, it would still
put me in the swamp, right?

(44:54):
And I'd die.
And so I just put my, Pedals tothe metal, as they say it.
And I'm just driving, andthere's nobody out on the road,
so it's like a straight shot,and I'm crying.
I'm trying to work up enoughnerve to just keep my foot on
the pedal because I don't wantto experience this life anymore.
And I'm driving, and I'mdriving, and I'm driving, and I

(45:15):
am going fast.
And all of a sudden, I hear...
I hear my Nana's voice.
Oh.
Gosh.
And she was like...
All she said was...
No, it's going to be okay.
And I stopped.
And I share with people, like,God knew that I wasn't going to

(45:39):
listen to him.
I didn't even know him.

SPEAKER_02 (45:41):
Well, yeah, that makes

SPEAKER_00 (45:43):
sense.
You know, so it's like heallowed me to hear the only
voice at that time in my lifethat I trusted.

SPEAKER_02 (45:52):
You heard it like audibly?
Audibly.

SPEAKER_00 (45:54):
Like she was there in the car with me.

SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
Oh, wow.
That's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 (45:57):
Yep.
She's like, no.

SPEAKER_02 (45:59):
I always wonder when people say, oh, God spoke to me.
Is that a thought you had inyour head?
Or you actually heard a sound?

SPEAKER_00 (46:05):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (46:06):
Wow.

SPEAKER_00 (46:07):
Yep.
Like she was there.

SPEAKER_02 (46:08):
That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 (46:09):
Yep.
And it's not even just a sound.
It's a feeling of their...

SPEAKER_02 (46:14):
Presence.
Presence.
Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
You know, and so, and I, I just, I just bawled my
eyes out and I didn't know whatwas going to happen next, but I
just knew that it wasn't goingto be that.

SPEAKER_02 (46:24):
Yeah.
So your next trick.

SPEAKER_00 (46:27):
Yep.
And that's what I did.
I went back into it.
I ended up in a, um, in arelationship with someone that,
um, was very abusive.
Um, it was kind of an arrangedrelationship.
There's, it's hard to get into,but there's kind of trafficking
relationships on the street.
And this ended up, I ended upbeing in one of those that I

(46:51):
couldn't get out of.
And, but I had a roof over myhead and I had, you know, food
and a place to live, even thoughit was a shack.
But I was in this relationshipand at 21, I got pregnant again.
Wow.
But this time, this time, I'mlike, nah, I got a roof over my

(47:13):
head.
I got a place to bring my childhome.

SPEAKER_02 (47:18):
Oh, Brandon.

SPEAKER_00 (47:21):
Nope, Brandon I already had.
No,

SPEAKER_02 (47:24):
the baby.
Oh, I thought you

SPEAKER_00 (47:25):
were saying.
No, no, no, no.
I had already given up on him.
They weren't letting me see himbecause of my.
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (47:29):
you mean like getting pregnant

SPEAKER_00 (47:31):
again.
Yeah, so now I'm pregnant.
Okay, got it.
Right?
And so now it's like, ooh, I getmy own person again.
Oh,

SPEAKER_02 (47:37):
gosh.

SPEAKER_00 (47:37):
Okay.
And now I actually have a roofover my head.
Got it.
So now I actually have a placeto bring this baby home to.

SPEAKER_02 (47:42):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (47:43):
So I'm planning on having this baby, bringing it
home.
And then at five monthspregnant, he abuses me.
It's an incident of abuse that'slike really bad.
He ends up throwing me through aplate glass window.
Oh gosh, I'm so sorry.
I know, but here's the goodthing about that, right?

(48:05):
Is that abusers, especiallydomestic violence abusers, they
know how far to go so that theirvictim doesn't have to go seek
medical care.
They pull back and stop beforeit gets to the point where they
know their victim needs help.
And it's kind of this very sick,kind of sustained process

(48:29):
pattern of abuse where you abusethem enough, but not enough to
where now the outside worldknows it needs to come in and
intervene.
And by putting me through thatplay glass window, as terrible
as that experience was, I am nowsitting in a hospital.
You see what I'm saying?
So it's like, I'm at a hospitaland this nurse is looking at me

(48:51):
and she knows what this lookslike.
And so she's like, you have tolet me help you.
And I was like, no, that's okay.
Because now remember I'mthinking I can't change anything
about my situation because Ihave a roof and I need to bring
this baby home to it.
So I'm not, I don't want herhelp, right?

(49:12):
And she tells me, well, he'sgoing to kill you if you don't
let me help you.
I'm like, I don't care aboutthat.
I've already tried that twiceand I've been unsuccessful.
Like that doesn't mean anythingto me.
Gosh.
And then she said something thatchanged everything.
She said, he's going to hurtyour baby.
Yeah.
That was very smart of her.
Yep.
And when she said that,everything just clicked.

(49:35):
And I was like, what do I got todo?
And that was the start of myfreedom, really, from that
entire life that I was living onthe streets was accepting that
help from her.
Wow.
And...
He went to jail.
The apartment got turned over tome.
And there I was.
There I was, not getting abusedanymore.

(49:58):
That's awesome.
And had a roof over my head andabout to give birth to my third
child.
But was 0 for 3 so far.
And then I went into labor.
I was dirt poor.
Just dirt poor.
I took a taxi to the hospital.

(50:19):
And I gave birth to my daughter,Vanessa.
And it was amazing.
It was awesome.
I was on cloud nine because Iwas in the hospital and I wasn't
leaving without her.
Aw.
And you finally had somebody tolove you.

(50:39):
And I finally had somebody thatI could love and that I knew was
going to love me, you know.
And I took her home in a donatedcar seat from the Women's Guild
at the hospital, because Ididn't have one, and in a taxi
cab.
Yep.
And welfare was paying my rent,and food stamps was putting food

(51:03):
on the table.
Works.
Yep.
And I was just, I tell you, ifyou would have knocked on my
door at that time in my life andbeen like, hey, Jess, how's your
life?
I would have told you I had thebest life ever.
Like, I was living the dream,right?
But you were.
To me, I was.
But the reality was that Iwasn't.

SPEAKER_02 (51:23):
Yeah, but I mean, considering you're not homeless
and you're not being beaten upevery day, getting put through
glass doors, and that

SPEAKER_00 (51:30):
is

SPEAKER_02 (51:30):
the dream.

SPEAKER_00 (51:30):
Yeah, but was I living the best version of
myself?
Right, and I didn't know thatyet.
So, and I tell people thatthat's why it's super important
not to leave people where theyare.
You can meet them where theyare, but like to, Tell them the
truth about how beautiful theirlife is and how much more God

(51:52):
has in store for you.
For sure.
Yeah, and I did what, again,just personality-wise, I take
everything to the max, whateverI'm doing and I'm focusing on,
and I did that.
I took advantage of freechildcare, of friends who would
watch my baby at night so I'd gobartend.
I'd bartend all night long andthen put her in childcare and

(52:15):
then go to an office job andthen go to another job in the
afternoon and then go bartendagain.
So by the time she was two, Ihad even had my own business.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
I was running permits forconstruction companies and had
people working for me.
So I'd pulled myself out ofhomelessness and social

(52:39):
services.
I was off.
social services, had my own newbeautiful apartment now.
I love it.
And had her in.
So materially and physically, Iwas much better.
But I was still living the wrongway and not doing the right
things for myself.

(53:00):
And then...
I was working as an officemanager and our copy machine
broke down.
And they sent out a repair guyto fix it.
And he looked at me and he waslike, I'm sorry, we can't fix
it.
Do you want me to send a salesguy out so that you could buy a
new one?
And I was like, okay, sure.

(53:21):
So the sales guy came out andwas showing me like all the
copiers.
And then I was like, okay, yeah,I gotta think about it.
And then he left.
And then when he left, I had ahot flash.
And I was like, this was inFlorida.
So I was like, oh my gosh, didthe air conditioner stop
working?
And then it went away and Ididn't think about it.
And then the copier guy cameback And showed me more

(53:44):
magazines and copiers and tryingto sell me.
And I was like, okay, yeah, Ineed some more time.
I'm not ready to commit to it.
And he left.
And I had another hot flash.
Didn't put two and two together.
He left.
And then the third time he came,he came with another sales guy.
Showed it to me.
And I was like, yeah, okay,thank you.

(54:05):
And that was kind of the lastround.
I was like, you know what, I'llreach out to you.
Don't worry about it.
And then he walked out.
And when I went to go sit backat my desk, I had another hot
flash and was complaining aboutit.
And the woman behind me waslike, you like him.
And I was like, like who?
She was like, the copier guy.
I was like, I don't evenremember his face.

(54:26):
I honestly didn't.
That's so funny.
And she was like, well, he'sprobably still there putting his
stuff in his car.
You might want to go look andsee what he looks like.
And so I went and I peeked outand he was standing there, like
the back of him, putting stuffin the trunk of his car.
I was like, man, I can't see hisface.
I was like, hey.
And he like turns around likeall handsome, you know.

(54:50):
And when he turned, his likebody moved over and I saw it was
a BMW.
So I was like, ooh, that's nice.
That's attractive.
And then he turned and I saw hisface for the first time and I
was like, wow, you're likereally handsome.
I think I got like reallyembarrassed and I pulled myself
back and went back in.
And then I wouldn't take hiscall.

(55:12):
Because he knew somethinghappened there, and he was
trying to call, and then thesecretary called in sick, so I
had to answer the phones oneday, and he got me on the phone.
He was like, let me just takeyou to lunch, and we'll just put
this whole copier thing to rest,right?
If you decide you don't want tomove forward, I promise I'll
never bother you again.
And I was like, okay.

(55:33):
So we went to lunch, and I walkin, and he's already sitting at
the table.
smiling, like greeting me.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, he'sso handsome.
And so I walk up, I have mylittle copier folder and I put
it on the table and he justlooks up at me and he slides the
copier folder over.
And he just looks at me and he'slike, do you really want to talk
about copiers?

SPEAKER_02 (55:54):
Oh, sassy.

SPEAKER_00 (55:57):
And I looked at him and I was like, no, I don't.
And we talk for like hours, justsharing each other's lives.
And, um, Yeah, long story short,you know, he's now my husband of
23 years.
Deacon

SPEAKER_02 (56:14):
Charlie.

SPEAKER_00 (56:15):
Deacon Charlie.
Aw.
Yeah, and, like, he was just sodifferent.
Like, he comes from a differentbackground than I do.
You know, intact parents and,you know, grow up in the faith,
a very strong Catholic faithbackground and unity together as
a family.
Sure,

SPEAKER_02 (56:31):
and that's what you needed.

SPEAKER_00 (56:32):
Yeah, yeah, and God knew.
God knew that...
I wasn't gonna go directly tohim.
And so he had to come throughsomebody else to get to me.
And it was definitely Charlie.
I mean,

SPEAKER_02 (56:46):
Just from Charlie's perspective, I'm just thinking,
okay, here I come from this...
Isn't he Latino?
Yes.
Come from this

SPEAKER_00 (56:56):
religious...
I love how you ask that as aquestion.
He gets that so much, too.

SPEAKER_02 (57:00):
Yeah, I can't remember.
He comes from this Latino,intact family, and here's this
spicy girl, self-made, but withlots of trauma.
It's kind of combustible.
He had a lot to take on.
And you had a baby.
Yeah.
Yes.
Did

SPEAKER_00 (57:17):
he have a child at that point?
No.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, no.
It's funny because I lied to himfor probably the first six
months of our relationship aboutwho I was and where I came from.
I totally lied to him.
It's

SPEAKER_02 (57:32):
on brand for your...

SPEAKER_00 (57:33):
Yeah.
I mean, look, you got to do whatyou got to do when you're going
after what you want.
Right, right, right.
So I totally lied to him.
And, like, I even put myself indebt.
to take him out and do weekendtrips on motorcycles with him.
I did not let him know at all.

(57:54):
like any of my history.
Only that I was in arelationship, it didn't work
out, and I have a child from it.
Like, that's it.
He didn't even know about myother child or anything.
Like, I told him nothing in thebeginning.
Well, I mean, honestly, hedidn't need to know.
That's the way I see it, too,so.
I

SPEAKER_02 (58:11):
mean, why do you need to tell a guy everything
day one?
Like,

SPEAKER_00 (58:14):
hey, I told him this and that.
He would have totally walkedaway.
Yeah, exactly.
You don't need to freak him out.
He would have totally walkedaway.
Yes.
So then, within the firstyear...
I just, I fall so head overheels in love with him.
And he feels the same way aboutme that my conscience starts to
kick in.
I'm like, I haven't been honestwith him.
And so I think it was like aboutseven months in, I tell him

(58:36):
like, I have stuff to share withyou.
And I didn't share all of it atonce.
I just shared like the bigstuff.
Like I have another kid andhere's kind of like where I come
from and here's about my family.
And he was shell-shocked.
Just shell shocked.
And we broke up.
We broke up.
Oh gosh, that's

SPEAKER_02 (58:56):
traumatizing.

SPEAKER_00 (58:56):
Yep, we broke up.
And it was the worst.
I don't even know how long wewere broken up.
But I went to his house and Iwent to his bedroom window and
was just like knocking on hisbedroom window crying.
Like, please just listen to me,right?
And I remember like petitioninghim.
Like...
But do you love me?
Why does that matter?

(59:19):
Give me a chance to show youthat if you really do love me,
you should stay with me.
And he did.
And he did.
And then I had gotten myself insuch a financial mess trying to
impress him and win him overthat I was getting evicted from
my place.
um yeah um and i i was barelynow able to take care of my own

(59:44):
child because of it so againlike materially i was doing well
but i was making the wrongdecisions with my life um and i
ended up having to move away umup to upstate new york with my
daughter just to kind of getregrounded and sure and kind of
put my life back together.
And so we had a long distancerelationship during that time.

(01:00:06):
And it was during that absence,I think, from me that he
realized.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:10):
That he loved you so much.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:11):
Yeah, like I want this person in my life.
Like, yeah, I do.
I needed that absence.
And so he told me, he's like, hewent to his best friend at the
time and was like sharing withhim all this stuff about what I
shared with him.
And his best friend looked athim and he said, But if she
didn't have all that stuff,would you be with her?
And he was like,

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:33):
yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:35):
And then his best friend was like, well, that
seems like a really wrong reasonnot to be with someone.
It's basically a past that theycan't change.
Right.
And then he said, it sounds likeshe's hauntingly necessary to
you.
That's what he called me.
Hauntingly necessary.

(01:00:56):
I like that.
And my husband liked it too.
He was like, at the time he waslike, yeah, I guess she is.
Hauntingly necessary.
Hauntingly necessary at thattime.
And so, yeah.
And so then after that, he movedme back down.
He got an apartment and moved mydaughter and I, you know, back
down to Florida with him.

(01:01:17):
And that's when we kind ofstarted our household together.
And then he got a...
a job transfer to Los Angeles.
And that's when we came outhere.
Oh, wow.
And started our lives togetherout here.
That was in 1999.

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:36):
Wow.
Yeah.
And I read that you had exploredother religions.
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:46):
Yeah.
And him being Catholic.
Yeah.
Yes.
And extremely patient.
I know.
Patience is one of his strongpoints.
Yes, definitely.
So

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:58):
what were your, I'm not laughing about the, I'm
laughing at poor Charlie.
What did I get myself into inthe most loving way?
I mean it in the most lovingway.
I feel like my husband has thosemoments too, you know?
Um, Well, that's what you getwith authentic people, you know?
We land where we land.
We don't just follow like sheep.
That is very true.

(01:02:19):
Right?
We don't.
But when we do something, wemean it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:22):
And we give every ounce of ourselves to it.
Exactly, right?
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:27):
Okay, so tell me quickly about what other
religions you explored and thenhow you ended up in Catholicism.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:35):
Yeah, no, I was searching for...
I'd gone through like seculartherapy for seven years.
So being in the relationshipwith him kind of held a mirror
up to like the truth about whatI'd experienced.
Because when you're in trauma,you tend to surround yourself
with other people in trauma.
A

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:51):
hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:52):
So you don't really know what you're really in until
the kind of opposite comes alongand shines that truth mirror on
you.
And it feels...

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:01):
a little boring too when you're not around other
trauma people.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:05):
Right.
Well, just different.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're just, you're notlike me.
So, yeah, you know.
So, but...
So being in that relationshipwith him, now I'm like, I'm
living in California.
I'm like a stay at home mom.
I don't have to work.
I have a loving husband who'staking care of me.
That clashed with, no, Jess,you're just a street kid from

(01:03:28):
Fort Lauderdale.
And so those two identities werehit butting heads.
They were clashing.
I had like an interior chaos.
So I started going to therapy.
I went to secular therapy forseven years and it helped.
I came out of that reallyprocessing my, trauma behaviors
and what I had experienced butit wasn't like complete so like

(01:03:50):
I was watching Oprah one daylegit watching Oprah and she
just looked at me like I feltlike she was looking at me there
it is she was looking you knowat the camera and she was like
you have the power inside of yougo out and get that power it's
in you The power is in you.
And I remember like just foldinglaundry and looking at her

(01:04:10):
pointing at me and saying that.
And I'm like, yeah.
I've got the power.
It's the power in me.
And that drove me to kind of, Istarted doing meditation.
Right.
I started meditating thinking Ijust reached nirvana and that's
where all the power inside of meis because it's an interior
thing.
Meditation is interior.
So I dragged my poor husbandinto every single meditative

(01:04:33):
session that you can imagine.
Yeah.
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:38):
I've done stuff like

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:39):
that before too.
I can relate.
Yes.
Like just, I know I'm going to,I'm going to do it again.
That person, personality kickingin.
I went to a

SPEAKER_02 (01:04:45):
mega church for free tortillas.
My poor husband came with me.
I swear this is a true story.
They were like, do you wanthomemade Mexican food?
And I don't mean to interruptyour story.
No, are you kidding?
It's a conversation.
So he was like, I was like, hey,my friend invited me to this
gathering.
They've got homemade Mexicanfood, and I love it so much.

(01:05:08):
And we're in St.
Louis, and we never get it.
And all of a sudden, I'm at thisgiant megachurch, and we're in
the front row, and then beforethe Mexican food.
Yeah.
I'm like, everybody, close youreyes.
It's like, I think we had 4,000people in the room.
I don't know.
They're like, we have somenonbelievers here.
If you're ready to accept Jesusinto your life, put your hands

(01:05:31):
up.
I'm like, my husband's like,where are we?
What's going on?
Where's the tortillas?
We just wanted tortillas.
They're like, put your hand up.
And I'm not putting my hand up,and neither is he.
And then the guy, like, pastorwith the microphone's like, I
see people not putting theirhands up.
And then we're both like...
He was like, I'm going to killyou when we get out of here with

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:53):
that.
Sorry, I didn't mean to.
No, so you did an altar calljust to get some tortillas,
basically.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:59):
And at that point, I was a lapsed Catholic.
Right.
I mean, sorry.
Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:05):
Yeah, no.
So yeah, so I was meditating and

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:09):
he's Charlie's a love for the meditation.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:11):
Yeah.
Like whenever I drag himsomewhere, he'll go, you know,
but he's taking the kids tomass.
We have two kids together in ourmarriage.
Um, our two bottom sons and, um,he takes the kids to mass.
I go meditate and I go to theself-realization, um, temple
here in Pacific Palisades.
And, um, I just go by the lake,you know, the lake is beautiful.

(01:06:33):
And I was meditating there oneday and there was a glare coming
through But my eyes were closed.
And I was like, what?
Something's like so strong thatit's glaring through my eyelids.
And when I looked up, it was thesun reflecting off the top of
their temple building up there.
There's like a gold dome orsomething.
And I was like, oh, I've neverbeen in the temple to meditate.
Maybe I'll go in the temple tomeditate this time.

(01:06:56):
And so I go up there and I openit up.
And it's shaped like a hexagonor octagon shape.
And then there's like steps downin the middle.
But on the back wall, there'sthese six towers.
tapestries, like big, like eightfoot tapestries hanging.
And I remember looking at all ofthem and those were like the
deities, like the avatars thatthey worshiped and prayed to.

(01:07:19):
And I was like, oh, and thenright in the center is Jesus.
Jesus is on one of thetapestries.
And I was like, I literally lookand when I see him, I was like,
asking myself, what are youdoing here?
Like, what are you doing here?
Right?
I was shocked.
And the moment that I askedmyself that, I started what I

(01:07:41):
can only explain as a mysticalexperience.
My entire body just completelyLike every molecule of my
existence felt like it was atits capacity.
I describe it as like aheaviness, but it's not heavy,
but it took me to my knees.
Like I couldn't stand anymore.

(01:08:02):
It was just the weight of it, ina sense, took me to my knees.
And I was just in this awe, likeI couldn't believe what I was
feeling.
And he legit came out of thetapestry like a hologram and
looked at me and was like, hi,welcome.
I'm glad you're here.
He said, I see you've met myfriends.

(01:08:23):
And then he looked at me justdeep into my soul and was like,
you're searching for me.
I'm the one you're looking for.
And after he said that, gone.
And I was just, it changedeverything inside of me because

(01:08:44):
it was true.
And every part of my existenceis who I am, experienced it.
And I just, yeah, like that wasit.
That was it for me.
That's

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:00):
beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:00):
I love that.
It was just like, okay, you arethe one I'm, you're the one,
you're the one I need.
And the first voice that I heardin my head after that was
actually my mother-in-law, myHispanic mother-in-law.
Because in all of myrelationship with her, whenever
we drove in the car together andwe drove by a Catholic church,
she'd be like, Yesica, Yesica,do the sign of the cross, right?

(01:09:23):
And I'm like, it's my mom,right?
It's my mother-in-law.
So I'm going to do what shesays.
Of course.
You know what I mean?
And so I would do the sign ofthe cross.
And I remember one time gettingup enough nerve and asking her,
well, why?
You know?
And all she said to me was,because Jesus is in there.
That's so cute.
I love that.
That's all she said.

(01:09:43):
She was like, because Jesus isin there.
And even when she said it, I waslike, all right.
You know, just keep driving.
But that's the voice that Iheard.
Jesus is in there.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:53):
You know what's so weird?
Like, when you said, like, why?
Like, whatever.
Like, it's so weird.
Like...
I would almost, like, when I waslapsed, I would almost think,
like, when people would, like,give, like, a Jesus explanation
or a, like, a religiousexplanation, I would just be,
like, in my head rolling myeyes.
Like, they don't know anybetter.

(01:10:13):
It's like, why was I so cocky?
Like, for what reason?

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:18):
Yeah, no.
By

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:19):
the way, I'm getting that done to me now.
It's just desserts.
That's what you call justdesserts.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:25):
Just desserts, right.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:26):
You know, I just...
It's such a cocky, like, levelof, like...

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:34):
Way of responding.
Operating, yeah.
Operating, yeah.
The only way I know how toexplain that is because we
lacked, at that time, theencounter.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:42):
Right.
Of course.
Yeah.
And we thought

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:44):
we

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:44):
knew

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:44):
better.
And we thought we knew better.
Like, until you encounter Jesus,you know what I mean?
For me, it was the

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:50):
Virgin.
Yes.
The Blessed Virgin.
Yes.
And I just was, like, my life...
She's been life-changing for me,so...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you know what?
Jesus and his mama have a way ofhumbling us, right?

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:07):
Yeah, they do.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:08):
No, my daughter treats me that way.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:11):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:12):
She's probably just always, like, when I say
something, like, rolling hereyes.
Like, my son took, my son, like,was taking the LSATs to get his,
like, to go to law school.
I'm like, let's say a rosary.
Do you want to say a rosary?
And he's like, okay, mom, allright, like.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:26):
For you, I will.
Yeah, exactly.
That's what they do.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:31):
Yeah, for you, I will.
And that's how I was with mymother-in-law, too.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:34):
That just made me think

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:35):
of that when you said that.
Yeah, no, I rolled my eyes ather so many times.
Right?
So many.
Yeah.
And there's not an understandingthere of the encounter.
That's what I truly believe itis.
Right.
And that's what I pray for.
I pray for the encounter.
For all the people that I lovethat haven't had that encounter
yet.

(01:11:55):
I pray that for them.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:57):
because you can't go back.
You don't want to.
You don't want to, of course.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:03):
You don't want to.
Once you realize, it's like,nope, there's never, there's no
going back.
It's like, yeah, he becomes thechoice.
For good.
Yes.
Yeah.
And then?
And that's what happened.
And I ran home.
And as I was driving home, itwas the image of a crucifix.

(01:12:24):
He was like, you'll put this up.
Because I had salt crystals.
Oh, gosh.
I had all kinds of stuff goingon in the house, right?
You know?
And like all kinds of stuffgoing on.
And so it was as I was drivinghome, it was the instruction,
like take all that down and justput the crucifix up of me.
He asked me to do a crucifix.
And I know now why.

(01:12:45):
I didn't understand at the time,but it was so that I could unite
my sufferings that I'veexperienced and will continue to
experience with his.
That's the, you know, we hearthese words, imago Dei, right?
That's the image of God that Ihave connected to my own
personal experiences.
My imago Dei is Jesus on thecross.

(01:13:08):
For some, it's Jesusresurrected, right?
Or Jesus in the tomb.
Or Jesus feeding.
Or Christ the King.
For Christ the King.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's like, for me, it's Jesuson the cross.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:18):
I, so how did, do you think that, I know you went
through a lot of seculartherapy, but do you think that
becoming, so you becameCatholic.
Mm-hmm.
Becoming

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:29):
a Catholic.
It took me three years afterthat to actually become
Catholic.

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:32):
But I mean like your journey now.
Yeah.
Did that help you heal more?

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:36):
Are you kidding me?
Yes.
I love that.
I mean, it is the, yes, it'sthe, I forgot the word to use,
but it is the cornerstone of myhealing, right?
Even scripture tells us thatJesus is the cornerstone.
Like you can do all thisbuilding up to get to that part,
but without him, you're nevergoing to be complete and full,

(01:13:59):
right?
He is that fullness, thatcompleteness to whatever you're
working and building on, nomatter how good it is.
Right.
You still need that cornerstone,that piece that pulls it all
together and makes it complete.
And that's what he did.
He completed my healing to thepoint where he brought me
through forgiveness for thepeople that I used to dream

(01:14:21):
about literally killing for theharm they did to me and loving
them and wanting to see them inheaven.
So it's like that type offorgiveness, again, Jesus on the
cross, Jesus on the crucifix,Father forgive them.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:36):
Oh, you know what that made me think of?
You have a very similar story toMaria Goretti.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:44):
But you didn't die.
No, I didn't die.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:47):
Right.
But yes.
That's what she said.
I want to see him in heaven with

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:51):
me.
Yes.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:52):
She was a rape victim.
For those who don't know MariaGrady's story, she was a rape
victim.
And I guess when the priestswent to go give her her last
rites, he said, do you want tosend a message to anyone?
I can't remember.
They had a conversation.
And she said, please tell theperson who raped me that I
forgive him and I get to see himin heaven with me.

(01:15:13):
And he went on to change otherpeople's lives.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:15):
He did.
He was at her...
canonization, I think.
And she actually called him byname on her deathbed.
She said his name, I forgot,Alejandro or Alessandro.
I cannot remember.
She said, I want Alessandro orAlejandro to be in heaven with
me.
Yes.
Super powerful.
Even Saint Josephine Bikita.
Yes, yes.

(01:15:36):
She's the saint of rape victimstoo.
Yes, yes.
Sex trafficked people.
Yeah, she was sex

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:41):
trafficked at a young age.
She was sold as a slave.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:43):
Sold as a slave five times over.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:45):
So what, like now her story is like insane it's so
cool like these saints can teachus so much

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:52):
and what have they all done they've taken the love
of Christ to the maximum exactlywhere he asks us to take it to
trust him with ourselves fullybecause the idea of actually
loving someone who's harmed uswe can stop right what I share
people is the secular world isgoing to bring you through

(01:16:12):
healing and forgiveness up tothat level Because they're gonna
tell you, just forgive foryourself.
Forget about them, right?
Just forgive so that you feelbetter and that you can function
and you can go on with yourlife.
Don't worry about them.
They don't exist anymore.
But that's not Christianity.
That's not what Christ calls usto.

(01:16:33):
Christ calls us, he thinks,right?
I truly believe that what makesGod the most happy is when the
wounded actually turns to himand says, I forgive them.
and I want you to forgive themtoo.
And I'm gonna pray for theirforgiveness.
Think about that in just thefact of intercessory prayer.

(01:16:56):
Who would be the most powerfulintercessor to pray for that
person who raped me?
Me.
Me.
I would be the most powerfulperson to do that.
His grandma can pray for him allshe wants.
But for me to say to God, no, donot hold this sin against them.

(01:17:17):
That's what Jesus was saying onthe cross.
That was the example he wassetting for us.
And that perfect forgivenessonly happens with Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:27):
100%.
Who's your favorite saint?
Saint Josephine Bikita.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:33):
Mother Teresa.
Mother Teresa.
And we

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:37):
got to dial it back.
And I said this to Charliebefore.
I think he's very Joseph-like.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:43):
He is.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:44):
You know, like he took a lot on.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:46):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, he took on, you know,children that weren't his that
he loves.
He adopted.
A lot like Joseph.
My daughter, yes.
Saint

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:56):
Joseph.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:56):
He adopted my daughter and raised her, you
know, and yes, even foster kids,even in our lives, in our story,
we fostered two children.
I have to interrupt again.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:07):
Where's Brandon?

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:09):
Brandon is in Florida.
Did you reconnect with him?
I did.
When he was 14, he found me andreached out and we reconnected.
Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:18):
I love that.
I want I'm gonna see yourpicture room so quick.
Yeah,

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:19):
I'm gonna show you.
Yeah, I will show you a

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:21):
picture.
And then, Josephine Bikita.
Josephine Bikita is yourfavorite saint.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:28):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:28):
What's your favorite prayer?
And why?

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:33):
My favorite prayer is Probably this new one that's
been placed on my heart thisLent that I'm doing the most and
that's, Lord, please do not holdthis sin against them.
Just praying for those that needthe prayer to just for their
heart to be reconciled with God.
I

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:52):
hope I can get there.
I know you can.
I'm a work in progress, forsure.
I'm way further along than I wasthree years ago.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:04):
And you'll be further along three years from
now.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:06):
I hope so.
And if you had to describe yourrelationship with God in one
word, what would it be?

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:14):
Mercy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:15):
Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:17):
Mercy.
Yeah, I had a vision of...
me at the foot of the cross.
It was like a dream or visionthat I had.
And I was six years old.
So it wasn't me now.
It was me as a six-year-oldJessica at the foot of the
cross, just kind of looking upat him.

(01:19:41):
And I don't know what it meant,but Jesus on the cross and the
mercy that that means, him beingup there.
He didn't have to be up there.
He didn't do anything wrong.
He did it for us.
He did it so that we can bereconciled to him and to conquer
death, right?
And so that is the ultimatemercy, right?

(01:20:05):
That love where you lay yourlife down for someone else.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:12):
That's beautiful.
I love that.
How about your parents?
How are you with your parentsnow, speaking of mercy?

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:19):
My parents are awesome people because I got to
a part in my healing where Istopped blaming them and holding
them responsible for my healingand happiness.
And that was a big kind ofmoving point out of my pain with
them and in our relationships.

(01:20:41):
I love my parents to death.
I think that in some waysthey're still stuck in their
woundedness.
And there's, I pray for them tohave that encounter, right?
That just really changeseverything.
But I think they're amazingpeople who have their own

(01:21:02):
stories to tell if and when theyallow God to work in them in
that way.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:10):
What a great story of survival.
I love it.
I truly love it.
And I think it's inspiring forother people or women or girls
that are in your situation,whether they're victims of
domestic abuse or homelessnessor rape.
You're like that girl that hassurvived it all and come on top

(01:21:33):
and a better person.
Maybe if all those things didn'thappen to you, You wouldn't be
where you are now.
Like, you know, maybe you...
I

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:41):
believe that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:21:43):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:44):
I've been asked in interviews before, like if you
can go back and change onething, right?
And it's a very temptingquestion.
For all of us.
Very tempting question, right?
But no, I wouldn't changeanything because God has taken
everything, and I meaneverything that I've
experienced, and he's shown methe beautiful masterpiece he can

(01:22:08):
make out of each and every oneof those things.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:11):
Right, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:12):
I...

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:14):
Experiences and people come as a blessing or a
teaching experience orsomething.
There's something to be found ineverything.
Well, thank you so much.
Thank

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:28):
you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:30):
I think this was an amazing interview.
I

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:32):
enjoyed it.