July 15, 2025 • 45 mins
Join Father Daniel O'Mullain as he demystifies Catholic confession, sacramental life, and faith traditions. Explore the purpose and evolution of confession, the difference between venial and mortal sins, and the significance of priests' attire. Discover fascinating insights into incorruptible saints and hear candid stories about confession in unexpected places. Whether you're curious about Catholicism basics or seeking spiritual clarity, this enlightening conversation reveals how confession renews baptismal grace and offers a therapeutic path to forgiveness without judgment. Perfect for believers and seekers alike.
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SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
What is the weirdest place you've done confession in?
SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
What was the name of that restaurant?
SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Why do priests wear black?
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
I think because it's very slimming.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
Okay.
If you weren't a priest, what doyou think you'd be doing?
SPEAKER_02 (00:16):
I would have loved to have played soccer
professionally.
Like a realistic one.
Nothing seems realistic at thispoint.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
We go to confession, we're not being judged, right?
It
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
doesn't take very long, serving as a priest, to
hear everything.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
I think it's so interesting that the saints'
bodies don't decompose.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
We're probably the only ones digging up bodies.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
We're here today with Father Daniel O'Mullain.
I'm going to ask you all thequestions that people wanna
know, but were maybe toointimidating a task.
We're gonna learn about thebasics of Catholicism.
What makes Catholics differentthan other Christians?
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
I think for one, being in alignment with the
Pope.
So acknowledging that the Popehas an office that comes to us
from Peter, And through thelaying on of hands, so like
through subsequent generationsand the passing on of the powers
of that office, he stilloccupies a place for us today in
(01:17):
perhaps the governance and theteaching authority of the
church.
Probably the most significantthing, which is shared by some
other churches, is thesacramental life of the church.
So we have seven sacraments.
I've invested a lot of time inthat because when you're giving
your life away, you want to makesure that you're giving your
life away to the right thing.
But I think the sacramental lifeis terribly significant for us
(01:38):
because this is how the life ofgrace is communicated to us.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
I think it's so interesting that the saints'
bodies don't decompose.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
Some.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Some?
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
Some.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
What do you think that means?
SPEAKER_02 (01:53):
I love digging into these things, as you know.
And there's a time, and I'm notsure if I'm fully out of it
right now, but I just used tothink we're probably the only
ones digging up bodies.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
We're just going around digging up
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
bodies
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
to see who decomposed and who
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
didn't.
So yeah, we're just like, sowe're just discovering that some
bodies decompose.
No, some of them are really...
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
Are they embalmed?
No.
SPEAKER_02 (02:23):
No, they're not.
If they were embalmed, theywould not consider them
incorruptible, I believe.
There's a great book on it.
I think it's Joanne Carol Cruz.
I think she's written on othermiracles as well.
But the book is TheIncorruptibles.
And it's fascinating to see howmany saints are considered to be
(02:46):
incorruptible.
i do think it's a it's a strangephenomenon and a lot of people
attribute it to sanctity i ithink that it's perhaps a
foretaste of the resurrection sothe sense is of course that you
know as as human beings we'rewe're bodily we're bodily
animals we have to be bodilyanimals and god wants god not
(03:07):
only affirms that in many inmany ways including becoming one
becoming one of us um but healso affirms that in the
resurrection of jesus to sayactually The human being as body
and spirit is something that hewants to preserve for all ages.
And so what we anticipate is,though we may die, anticipating
(03:28):
Jesus' return, we will be raisedbodily from the dead to live a
new bodily life.
So I think it points forward ina powerful way to the
resurrection.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Tell me about confession.
What is the purpose ofconfession and how it's evolved
over time?
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, confession is, wego to confession for the
forgiveness of our sins.
So, I mean, I want to start withsimple, right?
Some theologians liken it to arenewal of baptismal grace.
So the idea is it's not thatyou're plunged into God's life
again.
You don't need to be.
That's happened once.
(04:06):
You have already a graceoperative in your life.
But then we do things in ourlife.
We We don't serve God with ourwhole heart.
We give ourselves away tocounterfeit gods or on fruitless
pursuits.
And we need to be regroundedagain in the life that God has
(04:28):
given us.
And so confession, it does renewbaptismal grace in us.
It renews God's own life at workin us and working through us.
We need that in order to live asChristians.
And confession is ourreacquisition of the same in
(04:49):
that sense.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
I find...
confession really therapeutic.
I think it's like the originalpsychotherapy.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, because you kind offeel lighter after you leave.
Maybe it's the prayers or maybeyou get something off your
chest.
I always feel lighter afterconfession.
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
There are so many things that go into it.
I think there is somethingliberating also about even just
being able to speak truth aboutourselves to someone else.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
When we go to confession, we're not being
judged, right?
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
Yeah, no, I don't think so.
The only judgment that'shappening is...
is a judgment that seeks to putthings to rights.
So the idea is that judgmentactually sorts things out.
So we're going to confessionbecause we recognize that we've
done something wrong.
(05:37):
We've offended against God.
And God then, he's judging thething that we've done wrong.
and he's also able to unwindsome of the consequences of
those actions.
So it is judgment, because if wewere to go into confession and
God were to say, I judge thatthat thing is not wrong, where
(06:02):
are we at that point?
So I know I'm making it toocomplicated.
I'm making it too complicated.
So when you come in and...
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
So you're never behind the veil going...
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (06:15):
Well, the thing is, you know, it doesn't take very
long serving as a priest to heareverything.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Yeah, the shock value is gone.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
No, it's, I mean, people perhaps don't like to
hear this either, but I findconfessions to be pretty boring.
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
Good, I kind of like that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
Because, you know, a lot of people don't go in and
confess their sins because theyfeel intimidated.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Yeah, and I get that because actually, because when I
go to confession, I'm sometimesintimidated.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
What do priests confess about?
SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
Everything.
All the same things.
Really?
All the same things.
All the same things.
Yeah, yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah, I've got to step down offthe pedestal now.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
But that's okay.
We don't need to be on one.
We do go to confession.
I tell my people all the time,well, a couple things about
confession.
One is that I go more than Iwant to.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
You know, we have to, I think.
We have to go more than we wantto.
And then I say, you know, as arule of thumb, I think going
once a month or going once everysix weeks is probably good.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
I'm ahead of the game.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
Yeah, you're...
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
I didn't go for like, oh, like maybe 20 years,
maybe 30, maybe 30, I don'tknow.
But then now I'm like...
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
The
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
difference between venial and mortal sins.
Can you list them?
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
So if we were to try to go case by case, we'd have a
very hard time saying these arevenial and these are mortal.
And part of the reason why isbecause there are criteria for
classification of mortal sins.
So do you have a sense of evenwhat those words mean?
Because a lot of people don't.
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
I think the mortal sins are like...
uh missing mass on holy day ofobligation and murdering people
i know that's a big spreadthat's a big
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
no we just don't we gotta tell people if you're
missing mass if that's likemurdering somebody you know well
that so there so there arecriteria for a judgment of say
when sins become mortal sins soit has to be about
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
i need examples from you
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Let me give you the three conditions.
One is grave matter.
The second is, say, intellect.
So knowing that it's gravematter.
And third is that full consentof the will.
You know that it's wrong.
And that you do it with...
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Intent.
SPEAKER_02 (08:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:41):
It feels like a criminal court, like actus res
mens re.
You knew, it's like thedifference between first and
second degree murder.
You knew and you acted on it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:51):
Yeah, and there are a lot, of course, as you can
imagine, these things aredebated ad nauseum, especially
around seminaries and places offormation.
And there are some people whotake a very extreme position and
say, If those are the criteria,then they can't be met.
And so nobody's committingmortal sin.
I don't think that's the case.
SPEAKER_01 (09:10):
As
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
someone who has committed mortal sin, let me
say, I
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
know
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
that that's not the case.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
So let me paraphrase.
So you have to knowingly knowit's a sin and act on it,
knowing that it was a sin.
Willfully act on it.
Okay.
Why do priests wear black?
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
I think because it's very slimming.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Isn't that what they say?
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Exactly.
It listed on everyone.
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah.
We're looking good.
I mean, that's what it comesdown to.
No, I think there's some denial.
This is what we say, quotes,denial of the world.
But really the idea is not to becaught up in worldly things.
So very often in the church, alot of the things that we have
and wear and do They have ahistory that kind of makes
(09:59):
sense.
We just kind of grew into it.
So the Roman collar comes fromwhat we had before, which was
Roman street wear and all thatkind of thing.
So these things developed overtime, and I think the symbols
kind of developed over time.
But that doesn't mean thatthey're insignificant.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
So are there times that you don't have to be in
your clerical suit?
I'm not wearing it
SPEAKER_02 (10:22):
to bed, right?
I hope not.
Yeah, and I think for me,precisely because...
clerical gear, I think, orclerical outfit or whatever,
it's a sign of your availabilityas a priest.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
So that's what I think anyway.
And there are times where you'renot available.
So there might be times, and ofcourse, I mean, any number of
these things can generate afirestorm of discussion because
people are super invested in it.
But if I'm going to go out witha family, I'm going out to be
(10:58):
with them, I'm not going out tobe available to the other people
that I might run into as aresult of going out with them.
So if I go out to a restaurantwith a family, I might not wear
clerics.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
Because I don't really want to be a spectacle.
There is a certain amount ofministering that's happening to
that family.
I'm trying to love them.
I think when we're plying thetrade, then we ought to be
properly attired.
And that's probably a betterrule of thumb than to say, you
(11:37):
know, eat, sleep, and drink,whatever, in the clerical suit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
Father Thomas told me that one time he was on an
international flight and theseat next to him was empty and
he told the flight attendantsthat he was doing confession.
And he was kind of joking aboutit, but then it ended up being a
real thing.
What is the weirdest placeyou've done confession in?
SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
What was the name of that restaurant?
Where was that last night?
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
Penzanella last night?
Was that the weirdest case youever had?
Oh
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
my gosh, I'd have to think about it.
I've heard confession in anairport before, just like in the
middle of an airport.
I was at, what was that?
It was a, it might have been apolitical event for a friend of
mine, and after a Someone askedme to go to confession
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
there.
Yeah, I'm glad I could add toyour list now.
If someone asks you that
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
question.
Some random restaurant.
Sorry, it's not random.
It's a very good restaurant, ofcourse.
And if they want to sponsorsaints, then I'm sure there'll
be opportunities
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
for that.
We have more rapid-firequestions.
Rapid-fire questions for FatherDaniel O.
Lang.
What is adoration?
SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
So adoration usually is the host that you see at
Mass, usually the big one thatthe priest has is going to be
put into a monstrance.
A monstrance is this ornate,silver-looking thing that sits
on the altar, but there's awindow.
And so you go into the churchand you're going to pray with
(13:20):
Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
So that's adoration.
What are
SPEAKER_01 (13:25):
the benefits?
SPEAKER_02 (13:26):
The benefits, I think, you know, very often we
even talk about the fact thatsometimes we don't feel or sense
God's presence.
But I think when you have Jesusexposed in the Blessed Sacrament
in front of you, the whole thingjust feels much more dialogical,
feels much more relational.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Intimate, too.
Like you're just like one-on-onewith Jesus.
Yeah, yeah.
I read a statistic that said 80%of teenagers or college students
abandon, Catholics abandon theirfaith while they attend college.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
What's going on?
What are your thoughts on
SPEAKER_02 (14:04):
that?
Yeah, I've heard something likethat before.
I think there is anotherresponse or interpretation of
that coming to light these days,which is more like we lost them
before that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Oh, interesting.
But
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
now they're, say, willing to identify that way.
So there are other surveys thatshow kids will usually lose
their faith maybe around thebeginning of middle school.
And a lot of that also isthrough...
They're dabbling in science.
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Oh, I see.
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
And it's oftentimes then also your kid's science
teacher.
So there are some challengesthere.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
I definitely was one of those people.
It took me another probably 28years to come back.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
I hear you.
I mean, I think I was similar.
I mean, I've kind of grown upsomewhat cynical and, you know,
very...
you know, again, oppositional,right?
So it's perhapsanti-authoritarian to say, that
kind of stuff is not for me, orI don't believe it, I don't
trust it, that kind of thing.
(15:19):
And I think science becomessomething of a safe harbor where
it's like, I can have theseintellectual pursuits and
whatever.
And this is like more dependablethan the stuff that people are
telling me about the faith.
But I think there are a numberof challenges there.
One is that, in that sense,science can't prove itself.
(15:39):
I mean, there's not any way toset up science except with its
own self-evident principleswhich themselves can't be proved
by observation and science isjust about observing things and
measuring things and thenpredicting outcomes based on
past events
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
but then people latch on to like you said they
want documentation they'll latchon to like crystals or astrology
and like I was saying to theother father Daniel this has
been studied and Jesus is themost documented person in all of
history like who's moredocumented and written about
than Jesus yet they'll be likeoh oh, like I believe in the
(16:17):
universe and karma and this andthat, I'm like, okay, and what's
your proof for that?
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
Other than your own anecdotal experience.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, look, the universein that sense can't make domains
of you.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
Yeah, and people have their own rules.
I don't believe this.
I don't believe that.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, okay, you made up therules now?
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
yeah.
That's not how life works.
That's not how religion works.
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
I do think people are trying to find safety,
security, like that kind ofthing.
And I don't think thatChristianity is your landing
place if you're looking reallyfor safety and security.
I think it's your landing placeif you're interested in having a
relationship with God, a realrelationship with God, a real
relationship with Jesus.
And Jesus can walk into yourlife and upend a few things.
(17:04):
And I'm not sure that people areterribly inclined to have that
happen.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Father, can you tell us a little bit about what made
you get into the priesthood?
Because I always wonder whatmakes people abandon the thought
of having a family and childrenand decide to pursue a path in
priesthood because it's reallylike a selfless thing.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat made you get into that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:31):
It can be a selfless thing.
I hope that it is for me.
Yeah, I think I grew up prettynormal upbringing.
From the time I was six or so, Ithought I was going to get
married, had girlfriends, prettyserious girlfriends along the
way there.
Maybe at eight years old, it wasserious girlfriends.
(17:53):
But yeah, I always just thought,I mean, that's the culture that
I was growing up in, veryfamily-centric, thank God.
Good, solid family.
My parents have good, solidmarriage.
And yeah, that was where myfocus was.
I never thought that I was goingto be a priest.
In fact, I didn't want to be apriest.
(18:15):
And interestingly enough, Ithink looking back on it today,
I'd have to say I was beingcalled to the priesthood, which
is why I can say to you as well,I didn't want to be a priest
because I think that God alongthe way was asking that question
of me, but my response was no.
So for anybody who knows me, I'moppositional.
(18:37):
I'm very
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
oppositional.
ODD, oppositional defiantdisorder.
SPEAKER_02 (18:41):
It certainly rises to the level of disorder, I
would say that.
So it's not surprising, even Godwould ask me to do something and
I would be trying to say no tohim.
And then, yeah, when I was in myearly 20s, it started coming to
me that I was going to have totake the time to figure out
whether or not I was beingcalled by God to be a priest.
(19:03):
So that was toward the end of mytime in college.
And then the years immediatelyfollowing those, I was really
thinking a lot about it, prayinga lot about it, actually still
trying to avoid it.
And then I went into seminaryand spent a couple years in
(19:24):
seminary.
In seminary, discerning,praying, studying.
SPEAKER_01 (19:28):
Can I ask you a quick question?
Yeah, you got it.
While you're in seminary, it'skind of like a meditative
process to decide if you want tobe a priest or not.
Or at this point, are you like,okay, this is what I'm doing?
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Yeah, so I think it depends.
I think it depends.
So for me, do you mean, or forpeople generally?
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Like generally, if you're in seminary, can you be
dating a girl?
SPEAKER_02 (19:51):
No, although there was a time not too long ago, I
mean, probably 40 or 50 yearsago or so.
Maybe it was more recent thanthat, where actually in
seminary, formators would beencouraging the guys to, to be
dating.
But it's such bad, it's not,what do you say, like common
(20:14):
wisdom?
It's like totally out the doorat this point.
It's not a good thing to bethinking that way.
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Yeah, by the time you enter seminary, you should
have almost made peace with thepriestly lifestyle.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Yeah, at least with the potential sacrifice of
family and not dating and therest.
And again, there's...
I don't know, I think peopleusually speak about these things
out of their own experience, andthey'll say, oh, it was really
important for me to havegirlfriends growing up or to
have been in a seriousrelationship.
And then, of course, you've gota lot of other people who will
(20:46):
say, you know, it's not terriblyimportant.
I was never in a seriousrelationship, and it didn't
really matter in terms of my owndiscernment, figuring that out.
Yeah, and for me, I think Icould probably go both ways.
I think there's some sense ofbeing in a serious relationship
does foster something ofother-centeredness.
(21:07):
So I'm not just kind of centeredon myself.
I'm willing and able to makesacrifices for the other.
And I know what compromise inrelationship means.
But beyond that, I think, again,for me, again, had some baggage
from relationships that then...
made it a little bit difficultto discern my path forward,
certainly as a seminarian,growing to embrace what God was
(21:30):
calling me to.
So I spent two years inseminary, and then after that I
took a 30-day retreat, so asilent retreat.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
Silent retreat for 30 days?
30
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
days,
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
yeah.
I think I can maybe try onehour, and it's tough for me.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
That's a
SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
lot.
SPEAKER_02 (21:52):
It's a lot.
And, you know, the retreat isintended for a state-of-life
discernment, as well as, say,going deeper into your vocation,
into your calling.
So...
It was good for me.
It was a very kind offoundational experience in my
own life, my life of prayer andfaith.
(22:14):
And eventually the fruit of thatretreat really allowed me to not
be so oppositional with God andto embrace what it was he wanted
for me.
And that was the priesthood.
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
That's very cool.
If you weren't a priest, what doyou think you'd be doing?
Have you ever thought aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (22:34):
There are always things that I think I'd want to
be, I would have wanted to havebeen doing.
Like?
I would have loved to haveplayed soccer professionally and
growing up in England.
SPEAKER_00 (22:44):
Like a realistic one.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
Yeah, well, that's the point,
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
right?
Nothing
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
seems realistic at this point.
It's like it's just what Godwanted me to do.
But when I was coming out ofcollege, I was coming out of
college with a dual major ineconomics and theology.
That was my undergraduate.
I always thought that economicswas...
going to be my practical degree.
That's where I'm gonna makemoney.
And then theology would just bemy passion.
(23:11):
And I remember going outactually to, I'm from New
Jersey, I'm living in NewJersey, so I went out to a
diner, okay?
Went out to a diner with a goodfriend of our family's who was
at the time, I think he wasworking for Fleet Bank or
whatever, one of the big banks.
And I was going out to eat withhim so that I could see whether
(23:34):
or not there was an opportunityto work.
And he said to me, I do have oneregret in life, and that was not
really checking out thepriesthood.
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Father, when you say you were called to priesthood,
like, what does that mean?
Is it like a voice or is it likesomething in your heart or...?
How does that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
I think we all experience it a little bit
differently.
And I've never...
I don't think I've ever had thekind of auditory...
I'm tempted to sayhallucination, actually, but
I'll just say I've never had theauditory experience.
You know, those clear words.
And I know that actually anumber of people have had that
experience, but that's not myexperience.
(24:15):
My experience was actuallygrowth in trust.
It's perhaps a strange way tosay it, but there was...
a good and wise Jesuit that Iknew who would say, discernment
is not about clarity, it's abouttrust.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
I like that
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
quote.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
Discernment is not about clarity, it's about trust.
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
Yeah, because I think usually we're looking for
the answer to our question.
Probably, in reality, we havesome inclination, right?
We have some understanding ofwhat the answer is.
and it's ours to perhaps trustit more deeply.
So yeah, I mean, by the time Iwas committing myself to
(24:59):
ordination, I was convinced thatGod had called me to the
priesthood and I was making thenthis reciprocal yes, and as much
as I could muster, right?
So God is giving me his wholeself and I'm pouring myself out
to him in that particularexpression.
(25:23):
So saying, I'm going to say yes,okay, I can follow you, Jesus,
into the priesthood.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
It's such an incredibly selfless path to take
in life.
It's also like eight years ofgoing to school.
What's that about?
It should be like 18 months.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
You
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
know what I mean?
It's like, I want to say...
but I'm not.
I'm committing myself to othersand God, and now I have to go to
school for eight years on top ofthat?
That's an incredible, that'slike medical school.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
That's
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
a lot.
It's quite an undertaking.
SPEAKER_02 (25:57):
It's a long process.
It's a long process.
And I think it's daunting.
It's not for the faint of heart.
I
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
bet it's hard, too.
And you have to learn Latin andall sorts of stuff.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:09):
Thankfully, you can get by without learning too much
Latin.
But I think it's...
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
When you go to give someone their last rites, are
there any common themes that yousee or you recognize or observe
in people that...
that was like insightful to youor like it could be insightful
to other people?
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Going to see people at that time of their life is, I
mean, that's tough.
It's tough all around.
And it's not pleasant also forpriests.
You know, it's just not.
It's a tough time.
And sometimes you have familyaround, sometimes you don't have
family.
You never really know whatyou're walking into.
(26:52):
But what I would say is I thinkthat People derive great comfort
from prayers.
So when I walk in, trying topray with the people, and if
they're conscious at all, andyou don't really know, right,
because it's very hard tomeasure, like I'll say the Our
(27:14):
Father or something, and youjust see their mouth moving and
the way that So
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
sad.
SPEAKER_02 (27:20):
They would have to pray that
SPEAKER_01 (27:22):
prayer.
But it's kind of happy a littlebit, too.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
Oh, it's great, yeah.
It's sad, of course, but it'sgreat to see that they respond.
And sometimes you go and seepeople who have not been
responsive really for some time,and you start praying, and
they're responsive.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:41):
Yeah, it's great.
It's enlivening, right?
I mean, prayer, we wanteverybody to pray.
And in part, at least in part,because we know that prayer is
enlivening.
So then it's really good forpeople.
So yeah, it's a challenge, Ithink, to minister to the sick
and dying.
And of course, there's no, say,uniform experience of that.
(28:07):
So there are people, I have tosay, I mean, A lot of people, at
least for me, when I walk in andwe're going to go through that
ritual, I'm encountering peoplewho are relatively at peace.
They're happier for having methere and that kind of thing.
(28:29):
I do occasionally have peoplewho are not at peace and it's
frightening.
I mean, I find it frightening.
The possibility of regretwithout repentance.
But it seems to me that as soonas you say, help me, that Jesus
(28:51):
is on the spot.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
Father, is it wrong that I have this super strong
devotion to Mary and I probablysay more prayers to her than I
do to Jesus?
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
Yeah, I don't...
I mean...
I'm not your spiritual director,of course, but not yet anyway.
Yeah, it's not wrong.
I mean, there's no easycategories there to say...
If
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
I get scared, I say the Hail Mary.
If I'm happy, I say the HailMary.
I mean, I do pray to Jesus, butI'm just saying, like, I just...
She's kind of on speed dial forme.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, I think...
Look, I mean, this is what we'retalking about with saints as
well, right?
Is that we have some comfortwith them.
And they're...
say, easy at hand.
I
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
call them middle management.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
Yeah, I mean, I
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
think...
She's VP.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
he's the present CEO.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then we have middlemanagement, and then you guys
are...
Father Daniel calls you guysmiddle management.
I think of you guys as theassistants.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
Yeah, well, yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
yeah.
And you're the saints.
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
Who knows?
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Let's talk about God-made versus man-made roles.
Okay.
I feel like...
priests getting married or notmarried is a man-made
SPEAKER_02 (30:07):
rule.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Because why can't they get married?
SPEAKER_02 (30:10):
We have a rich tradition of celibate clergy in
the Western church.
In the Eastern churches, theretends to be more of the married
clergy.
But we actually do have marriedpriests also in the Western
(30:31):
Church.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
So you can't get married once you've been a
priest, but if you're married,you can become a priest and keep
your wife.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
Yeah, so in very limited situations.
So the scope is pretty narrow onthat.
You would have to have been amarried Protestant minister
converting to Catholicism.
And then...
you might have, should thebishop discern that as well, you
(31:00):
might have the opportunity tobecome a Catholic clergyman.
So you would then be a Catholicpriest with a wife.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
So it's not a God-made rule.
It's a man-made tradition rule.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
It's so hard to say that, though, because I think
it's difficult to have that kindof distinction to say what is
God-made and what is man-madebecause we want to live into the
will of God.
So even if there are what youmight see as somewhat changeable
rules in the church, like Isaid, this is...
(31:33):
Celibacy is a custom of thechurch or a discipline.
There's not a dogmatic point ofreference there.
SPEAKER_01 (31:45):
Like if you kiss somebody, are you still
celibate?
SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
We ought to be careful with our hearts.
I think we're not that carefulwith our hearts, which is why
today I think a whole swath ofthe population believe that sex
is a recreational activity.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
100%.
And I think less and less peopleare getting married.
SPEAKER_02 (32:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
I think they said the amount of women that are not
going to be married in mydaughter's generation, I guess
Gen Z, is like exponentiallymore than my generation.
SPEAKER_02 (32:19):
Yeah, it's growing, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
Yeah, it's kind of sad.
SPEAKER_02 (32:23):
That's the path we're on, I think.
I mean, we're radicallyindividualistic.
And the sad thing about it isthat a lot of people live with
regrets for having followed thatpath.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
I think we're treating each other as
commodities.
I was going to say commodities,yeah.
Yeah, people are treating eachother in the dating world as
commodities.
The
SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
worst thing is, and this is what happens I think as
a result of idolatry, is that wecommodify ourselves.
So in fact, I'm a commodity whenI venture out into the
quote-unquote world throughsocial media, right?
So I'm presenting myself in aparticular way.
And that's aself-commodification, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (33:06):
And the dating apps.
Oh, she's got a cute body.
Oh, I don't like her hair orwhatever.
And then...
it's not just on the men it's onthe women too well if you
SPEAKER_02 (33:15):
don't like her hair
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
you can't be you can't no but what I'm saying
it's not just on the men like Iknow I'm like villainizing the
men right now like by swipingright on all these women or she
looks good or she doesn't lookgood or her rear end looks good
or whatever but it's on thewomen too it's on the women too
that like put up with thenonsense too like I think we
need to as women like go back toa little bit of our core
(33:36):
traditional values
SPEAKER_02 (33:38):
right right well the tough
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
thing is it's a big cycle bad cycle going on
SPEAKER_02 (33:41):
yeah We are interpersonal beings.
So I always like to saysomething like we're creatures
with faces.
So we're oriented outside ofourselves, right?
But the problem with so much ofthis activity that has kind of
masqueraded as social activityis that it's not outward
(34:02):
looking.
It's inward looking.
And so when you start to destroyrelationships, I think you have
big problems.
SPEAKER_01 (34:08):
Yeah, agree.
SPEAKER_02 (34:09):
And then you say, you know, we don't have...
roots the way i mean i'm thisway myself as well there's no
blame here but um we don't haveroots like we used to have and
then actually things likemarriage are not what they used
to be either so you know we'retalking about celibacy before
right how that and how that fitsinto the way society is and the
(34:32):
way the church is?
And those are really bigquestions.
I think marriage is a similarkind of thing, actually.
Now, of course, they're bothgood and God-given, but marriage
used to be really the comingtogether of two families.
If you consider the fact thatpeople wouldn't really journey
that far, they wouldn't go thatfar, they wouldn't travel that
(34:54):
far away from where they grewup.
So then you're talking about avery different, much more
complex relationship, not justbetween people, but between
families.
And those systems would allsupport marriage as the norm.
But because we've lost a lot ofour roots, I think good
(35:19):
marriages perhaps are harder tocome by today.
They're more difficult tomaintain.
SPEAKER_01 (35:25):
Because, I mean, women are working and they're
expected to bring an equalincome and then do all the
traditional mother-wife duties.
SPEAKER_00 (35:34):
I
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
mean, I sound probably pretty aggressive,
pro-woman, but...
SPEAKER_02 (35:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think we should be pro-woman.
And I think, I mean, where wouldwe be without the feminine
genius?
And I think that the world stillhas a way to go to catch up with
what women have to offer.
I just think we've put ourselvesin difficult positions as it
relates to things like theeconomy, which drives everything
(35:59):
for us.
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
Right, and we all want more.
We all want
SPEAKER_02 (36:02):
more,
SPEAKER_01 (36:03):
yeah.
Life is not so simple like whenour grandparents' generation.
SPEAKER_02 (36:08):
I tend to think that it could be.
This is my challenge as aromantic, right?
I tend to think that it could besimple.
We're not going to go for it atthis point.
SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
What is the hardest part of being a priest?
SPEAKER_02 (36:22):
Hmm.
I do think sometimes it'sloneliness.
And I don't think a lot of guysare going to be willing to say
that.
SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
I would think that, but at the same time, I don't
even know how you have time forloneliness because I feel like
everyone wants a piece of you.
Hey, Father, I have thisproblem.
Hey, Father, I have this, youknow?
But I think that's very coolthat you admitted that.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
Well, there's something about...
Again, I'm not terribly lonely,and I don't think we really lack
for companionship, but I thinkthere's something about creating
stories together
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
that
SPEAKER_02 (37:05):
can be a challenge for the priest today.
SPEAKER_01 (37:09):
How about a best friend?
SPEAKER_02 (37:10):
Yeah, I think that's a challenge.
SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
Is it?
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (37:14):
There are a number of domains, and of course, I
don't have to say doctors andsurgeons and whatever.
People do this.
People have lives of real highdemand.
And they find ways to alsoaccompany people through life
and build and write storiestogether and that kind of thing.
(37:36):
So I don't think it's just thedemands, but I do think the kind
of drop everything and go kindof thing is quite...
It's hard to cultivaterelationships of significant
depth without at the same timeprioritizing the relationship of
(37:57):
significant depth.
But where is it going to land onthe priorities?
And I think for a priest to dothat and do that well, it's
going to be a bit of achallenge.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
I guess you guys are like first responders.
SPEAKER_02 (38:10):
To some extent.
I don't think a ton of our lifeis going to be like that, but I
do think that people have reallyextraordinary access to us.
But that might just be, youknow, I'm thinking about it that
way because I'm an introvert.
SPEAKER_00 (38:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:26):
And it's like, ah, someone's ringing the doorbell.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Wait, do you think that most...
What's going on?
Do you think that most priestsare...
If you had to, like...
classify, generalize allpriests?
Are they extroverts orintroverts?
Because I feel like you have tobe an extrovert to be a priest
because you're up there doinghomilies.
You have to establish thisintimacy with people.
You're a counselor.
You're going to do the lastrite.
(38:52):
You're doing a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Right.
So I would say I think therehave been some shifts over the
generations.
And I think where the priesthoodhas been held in really high
esteem and where you've seen,yeah, like the priest is the
leader of the community and he'scenter stage all the time and
that kind of thing.
(39:13):
And perhaps he's even somethingmore of an activist in what I
would consider the politicalrealm, even if it's not like
narrowly political.
Like he's campaigning for abetter world, right?
Like right where he is and he'sworking to do good things in the
public eye.
I think that you're likely tofind people more extroverts in
(39:35):
that kind of mode or modality ofpriesthood.
And I think the priesthood is orhas been trending away from that
a little bit into the realm ofinterior life.
Priests as spiritual directors,they want to cultivate the life
of holiness in others.
(39:56):
they're committed to a life ofprayer themselves, then I think
you're much more likely to findintroverts.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
The Jesuits are probably introverts.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
They might
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
be.
Yeah, it's a
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
good question.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
They're so intellectual.
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
They're all over the place.
This is the way the Jesuits are.
I mean,
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
I'm a Jesuit educated...
The Dominicans too, I think.
But you know what?
You could ask
SPEAKER_02 (40:19):
them.
I mean, that
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
would be a great question for them.
I'll ask the Dominicans.
I have a lot of Dominicanfriends.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Communities usually have some mix of introverts and
extroverts, right?
And I think, again, that's partof the challenge of the way that
the diocesan priesthood or likeyour kind of, we call it the
secular priesthood.
So it just kind of means likewe're on the front lines.
Yeah.
The way that the secularpriesthood is lived out today
(40:43):
is, We're in a tough spotbecause there's more work than
we can handle.
You have a lot of people, a lotof priests who, they have two
parishes, three parishes, fourparishes.
They're still supposed to havethis intimacy with their
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
parishioners.
That's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
And if you're darting around from one to the
other, it's just really hard tofigure out what the needs of the
people are.
Even for me, in my situationwhere I have one parish, but I'm
the only priest of that parish.
I'm also running a school.
I'm also trying to meet theneeds of people in other ways.
(41:22):
There's more work there than Ican handle really.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
It's not until this year that I really began to
humanize priests.
I think maybe that's a part ofadding to loneliness because I
went to Catholic school my wholelife and it was like, be quiet,
the priest is coming.
It's not until I got into thisbusiness that I ended up
(41:46):
realizing They're just like us.
Totally different personalities,totally different perspectives
on things.
And it's like something that Ijust learned into my 50s, you
know?
Okay, now, you claimed lastnight that you were going to
break the world record forpraying the rosary.
SPEAKER_00 (42:03):
There's no way, but yeah.
But wait.
SPEAKER_01 (42:06):
Let's talk about the rosary.
Are Catholics the only religionthat prays the rosary?
I think we are.
SPEAKER_02 (42:12):
Yeah, I think...
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (42:15):
Yeah.
So tell me about why we pray therosary and give me a little
history about the rosary.
Why those particular prayers inthat order?
Tell me about it.
SPEAKER_02 (42:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's largely tradition at
this point.
I'm not an expert in the rosary.
But I do know that what we usedto have with the rosary was
three sets of five mysteriescovering what we'd say the
significant...
life events in uh in jesus'slife one of the reasons why pope
(42:48):
john paul ii comes back andgives us the luminous mysteries
which is a fourth set ofmysteries is because there were
any number of things that arescripturally very significant
were not represented in in themysteries in the original set of
15 mysteries if you put allthose hail marys together you've
got 150 hail marys and in thepsalter so in the book of psalms
(43:11):
you have 150 psalms So priests,in the prayer that they pray,
say with the church, the prayerof the church, we make our way
through the Psalms now, onceevery four weeks, we're gonna
(43:32):
pray every Psalm.
So the idea of the Rosary, myunderstanding of it anyway, the
origin and tradition of theRosary, is to have people have
better access So like in thesense of priests are going to
pray 150 Psalms, the people canpray 150 Hail Marys.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
Oh, I see.
Okay.
I read somewhere, I'm not sureif it's right, that Mary created
the rosary.
She invented the rosary, as Ialways tell my kids.
I invented this, I inventedthat.
Mary invented the rosary andgave it to St.
Dominic's to basically teach therest of the world how to pray
the rosary.
SPEAKER_02 (44:10):
Right.
Yeah, I mean, that's what weunderstand to be the origin
story of the rosary.
SPEAKER_01 (44:17):
What's the biggest lie the devil tells us?
SPEAKER_02 (44:22):
I think it's got to be something like, you're not
loved.
You're not worthy.
SPEAKER_01 (44:30):
I think that's where a lot of wounds come from.
SPEAKER_02 (44:35):
Yeah, I think, I mean, we exist because God loves
us into existence, right?
The very, we talk about thebasic building blocks of life
and that kind of thing, what tosay, like carbon, carbon-based
life form and all this kind ofstuff, right?
But actually the most basicbuilding block of life is the
love of God.
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
That's beautiful.
When I was at Magigori, one ofthe visionaries asked when they
had a vision of the Virgin,said, you are so beautiful.
Like, why are you so beautiful?
She said, I am full of love.
And I guess the youngestvisionary turned to one of the
girls and said, something like,you don't have that much love in
you.
(45:16):
Basically dissing or sayingyou're not as beautiful.
UNKNOWN (45:19):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Thank you so much, Father, for coming on our
podcast and answering all thequestions we had for you.
And I think other people wantedto know some of the answers to
these questions we asked.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Yeah, we're very happy to have been here with
you.
So thanks for the opportunity.
What is the weirdest place you've done confession in?
SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
What was the name of that restaurant?
SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Why do priests wear black?
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
I think because it's very slimming.
SPEAKER_01 (00:11):
Okay.
If you weren't a priest, what doyou think you'd be doing?
SPEAKER_02 (00:16):
I would have loved to have played soccer
professionally.
Like a realistic one.
Nothing seems realistic at thispoint.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
We go to confession, we're not being judged, right?
It
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
doesn't take very long, serving as a priest, to
hear everything.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
I think it's so interesting that the saints'
bodies don't decompose.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
We're probably the only ones digging up bodies.
SPEAKER_01 (00:37):
We're here today with Father Daniel O'Mullain.
I'm going to ask you all thequestions that people wanna
know, but were maybe toointimidating a task.
We're gonna learn about thebasics of Catholicism.
What makes Catholics differentthan other Christians?
SPEAKER_02 (00:52):
I think for one, being in alignment with the
Pope.
So acknowledging that the Popehas an office that comes to us
from Peter, And through thelaying on of hands, so like
through subsequent generationsand the passing on of the powers
of that office, he stilloccupies a place for us today in
(01:17):
perhaps the governance and theteaching authority of the
church.
Probably the most significantthing, which is shared by some
other churches, is thesacramental life of the church.
So we have seven sacraments.
I've invested a lot of time inthat because when you're giving
your life away, you want to makesure that you're giving your
life away to the right thing.
But I think the sacramental lifeis terribly significant for us
(01:38):
because this is how the life ofgrace is communicated to us.
SPEAKER_01 (01:42):
I think it's so interesting that the saints'
bodies don't decompose.
SPEAKER_02 (01:48):
Some.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Some?
SPEAKER_02 (01:49):
Some.
SPEAKER_01 (01:50):
What do you think that means?
SPEAKER_02 (01:53):
I love digging into these things, as you know.
And there's a time, and I'm notsure if I'm fully out of it
right now, but I just used tothink we're probably the only
ones digging up bodies.
SPEAKER_01 (02:05):
We're just going around digging up
SPEAKER_02 (02:10):
bodies
SPEAKER_01 (02:11):
to see who decomposed and who
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
didn't.
So yeah, we're just like, sowe're just discovering that some
bodies decompose.
No, some of them are really...
SPEAKER_01 (02:22):
Are they embalmed?
No.
SPEAKER_02 (02:23):
No, they're not.
If they were embalmed, theywould not consider them
incorruptible, I believe.
There's a great book on it.
I think it's Joanne Carol Cruz.
I think she's written on othermiracles as well.
But the book is TheIncorruptibles.
And it's fascinating to see howmany saints are considered to be
(02:46):
incorruptible.
i do think it's a it's a strangephenomenon and a lot of people
attribute it to sanctity i ithink that it's perhaps a
foretaste of the resurrection sothe sense is of course that you
know as as human beings we'rewe're bodily we're bodily
animals we have to be bodilyanimals and god wants god not
(03:07):
only affirms that in many inmany ways including becoming one
becoming one of us um but healso affirms that in the
resurrection of jesus to sayactually The human being as body
and spirit is something that hewants to preserve for all ages.
And so what we anticipate is,though we may die, anticipating
(03:28):
Jesus' return, we will be raisedbodily from the dead to live a
new bodily life.
So I think it points forward ina powerful way to the
resurrection.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Tell me about confession.
What is the purpose ofconfession and how it's evolved
over time?
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, confession is, wego to confession for the
forgiveness of our sins.
So, I mean, I want to start withsimple, right?
Some theologians liken it to arenewal of baptismal grace.
So the idea is it's not thatyou're plunged into God's life
again.
You don't need to be.
That's happened once.
(04:06):
You have already a graceoperative in your life.
But then we do things in ourlife.
We We don't serve God with ourwhole heart.
We give ourselves away tocounterfeit gods or on fruitless
pursuits.
And we need to be regroundedagain in the life that God has
(04:28):
given us.
And so confession, it does renewbaptismal grace in us.
It renews God's own life at workin us and working through us.
We need that in order to live asChristians.
And confession is ourreacquisition of the same in
(04:49):
that sense.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
I find...
confession really therapeutic.
I think it's like the originalpsychotherapy.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, because you kind offeel lighter after you leave.
Maybe it's the prayers or maybeyou get something off your
chest.
I always feel lighter afterconfession.
SPEAKER_02 (05:05):
There are so many things that go into it.
I think there is somethingliberating also about even just
being able to speak truth aboutourselves to someone else.
SPEAKER_01 (05:12):
When we go to confession, we're not being
judged, right?
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
Yeah, no, I don't think so.
The only judgment that'shappening is...
is a judgment that seeks to putthings to rights.
So the idea is that judgmentactually sorts things out.
So we're going to confessionbecause we recognize that we've
done something wrong.
(05:37):
We've offended against God.
And God then, he's judging thething that we've done wrong.
and he's also able to unwindsome of the consequences of
those actions.
So it is judgment, because if wewere to go into confession and
God were to say, I judge thatthat thing is not wrong, where
(06:02):
are we at that point?
So I know I'm making it toocomplicated.
I'm making it too complicated.
So when you come in and...
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
So you're never behind the veil going...
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (06:15):
Well, the thing is, you know, it doesn't take very
long serving as a priest to heareverything.
SPEAKER_01 (06:21):
Yeah, the shock value is gone.
SPEAKER_02 (06:22):
No, it's, I mean, people perhaps don't like to
hear this either, but I findconfessions to be pretty boring.
SPEAKER_01 (06:29):
Good, I kind of like that.
SPEAKER_02 (06:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (06:31):
Because, you know, a lot of people don't go in and
confess their sins because theyfeel intimidated.
SPEAKER_02 (06:34):
Yeah, and I get that because actually, because when I
go to confession, I'm sometimesintimidated.
SPEAKER_01 (06:42):
What do priests confess about?
SPEAKER_02 (06:44):
Everything.
All the same things.
Really?
All the same things.
All the same things.
Yeah, yeah.
Sorry.
Yeah, I've got to step down offthe pedestal now.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:57):
But that's okay.
We don't need to be on one.
We do go to confession.
I tell my people all the time,well, a couple things about
confession.
One is that I go more than Iwant to.
SPEAKER_01 (07:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (07:08):
You know, we have to, I think.
We have to go more than we wantto.
And then I say, you know, as arule of thumb, I think going
once a month or going once everysix weeks is probably good.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
I'm ahead of the game.
SPEAKER_02 (07:21):
Yeah, you're...
SPEAKER_01 (07:22):
I didn't go for like, oh, like maybe 20 years,
maybe 30, maybe 30, I don'tknow.
But then now I'm like...
SPEAKER_02 (07:29):
The
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
difference between venial and mortal sins.
Can you list them?
SPEAKER_02 (07:34):
So if we were to try to go case by case, we'd have a
very hard time saying these arevenial and these are mortal.
And part of the reason why isbecause there are criteria for
classification of mortal sins.
So do you have a sense of evenwhat those words mean?
Because a lot of people don't.
SPEAKER_01 (07:52):
I think the mortal sins are like...
uh missing mass on holy day ofobligation and murdering people
i know that's a big spreadthat's a big
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
no we just don't we gotta tell people if you're
missing mass if that's likemurdering somebody you know well
that so there so there arecriteria for a judgment of say
when sins become mortal sins soit has to be about
SPEAKER_01 (08:20):
i need examples from you
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Let me give you the three conditions.
One is grave matter.
The second is, say, intellect.
So knowing that it's gravematter.
And third is that full consentof the will.
You know that it's wrong.
And that you do it with...
SPEAKER_01 (08:39):
Intent.
SPEAKER_02 (08:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:41):
It feels like a criminal court, like actus res
mens re.
You knew, it's like thedifference between first and
second degree murder.
You knew and you acted on it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:51):
Yeah, and there are a lot, of course, as you can
imagine, these things aredebated ad nauseum, especially
around seminaries and places offormation.
And there are some people whotake a very extreme position and
say, If those are the criteria,then they can't be met.
And so nobody's committingmortal sin.
I don't think that's the case.
SPEAKER_01 (09:10):
As
SPEAKER_02 (09:11):
someone who has committed mortal sin, let me
say, I
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
know
SPEAKER_02 (09:14):
that that's not the case.
SPEAKER_01 (09:15):
So let me paraphrase.
So you have to knowingly knowit's a sin and act on it,
knowing that it was a sin.
Willfully act on it.
Okay.
Why do priests wear black?
SPEAKER_02 (09:28):
I think because it's very slimming.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Isn't that what they say?
SPEAKER_01 (09:34):
Exactly.
It listed on everyone.
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
Yeah, yeah.
We're looking good.
I mean, that's what it comesdown to.
No, I think there's some denial.
This is what we say, quotes,denial of the world.
But really the idea is not to becaught up in worldly things.
So very often in the church, alot of the things that we have
and wear and do They have ahistory that kind of makes
(09:59):
sense.
We just kind of grew into it.
So the Roman collar comes fromwhat we had before, which was
Roman street wear and all thatkind of thing.
So these things developed overtime, and I think the symbols
kind of developed over time.
But that doesn't mean thatthey're insignificant.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
So are there times that you don't have to be in
your clerical suit?
I'm not wearing it
SPEAKER_02 (10:22):
to bed, right?
I hope not.
Yeah, and I think for me,precisely because...
clerical gear, I think, orclerical outfit or whatever,
it's a sign of your availabilityas a priest.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (10:35):
So that's what I think anyway.
And there are times where you'renot available.
So there might be times, and ofcourse, I mean, any number of
these things can generate afirestorm of discussion because
people are super invested in it.
But if I'm going to go out witha family, I'm going out to be
(10:58):
with them, I'm not going out tobe available to the other people
that I might run into as aresult of going out with them.
So if I go out to a restaurantwith a family, I might not wear
clerics.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_02 (11:13):
Because I don't really want to be a spectacle.
There is a certain amount ofministering that's happening to
that family.
I'm trying to love them.
I think when we're plying thetrade, then we ought to be
properly attired.
And that's probably a betterrule of thumb than to say, you
(11:37):
know, eat, sleep, and drink,whatever, in the clerical suit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:42):
Father Thomas told me that one time he was on an
international flight and theseat next to him was empty and
he told the flight attendantsthat he was doing confession.
And he was kind of joking aboutit, but then it ended up being a
real thing.
What is the weirdest placeyou've done confession in?
SPEAKER_02 (12:02):
What was the name of that restaurant?
Where was that last night?
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
Penzanella last night?
Was that the weirdest case youever had?
Oh
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
my gosh, I'd have to think about it.
I've heard confession in anairport before, just like in the
middle of an airport.
I was at, what was that?
It was a, it might have been apolitical event for a friend of
mine, and after a Someone askedme to go to confession
SPEAKER_01 (12:32):
there.
Yeah, I'm glad I could add toyour list now.
If someone asks you that
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
question.
Some random restaurant.
Sorry, it's not random.
It's a very good restaurant, ofcourse.
And if they want to sponsorsaints, then I'm sure there'll
be opportunities
SPEAKER_01 (12:47):
for that.
We have more rapid-firequestions.
Rapid-fire questions for FatherDaniel O.
Lang.
What is adoration?
SPEAKER_02 (12:54):
So adoration usually is the host that you see at
Mass, usually the big one thatthe priest has is going to be
put into a monstrance.
A monstrance is this ornate,silver-looking thing that sits
on the altar, but there's awindow.
And so you go into the churchand you're going to pray with
(13:20):
Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.
So that's adoration.
What are
SPEAKER_01 (13:25):
the benefits?
SPEAKER_02 (13:26):
The benefits, I think, you know, very often we
even talk about the fact thatsometimes we don't feel or sense
God's presence.
But I think when you have Jesusexposed in the Blessed Sacrament
in front of you, the whole thingjust feels much more dialogical,
feels much more relational.
SPEAKER_01 (13:45):
Intimate, too.
Like you're just like one-on-onewith Jesus.
Yeah, yeah.
I read a statistic that said 80%of teenagers or college students
abandon, Catholics abandon theirfaith while they attend college.
SPEAKER_02 (14:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
What's going on?
What are your thoughts on
SPEAKER_02 (14:04):
that?
Yeah, I've heard something likethat before.
I think there is anotherresponse or interpretation of
that coming to light these days,which is more like we lost them
before that.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
Oh, interesting.
But
SPEAKER_02 (14:18):
now they're, say, willing to identify that way.
So there are other surveys thatshow kids will usually lose
their faith maybe around thebeginning of middle school.
And a lot of that also isthrough...
They're dabbling in science.
SPEAKER_01 (14:41):
Oh, I see.
SPEAKER_02 (14:42):
And it's oftentimes then also your kid's science
teacher.
So there are some challengesthere.
SPEAKER_01 (14:50):
I definitely was one of those people.
It took me another probably 28years to come back.
SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
I hear you.
I mean, I think I was similar.
I mean, I've kind of grown upsomewhat cynical and, you know,
very...
you know, again, oppositional,right?
So it's perhapsanti-authoritarian to say, that
kind of stuff is not for me, orI don't believe it, I don't
trust it, that kind of thing.
(15:19):
And I think science becomessomething of a safe harbor where
it's like, I can have theseintellectual pursuits and
whatever.
And this is like more dependablethan the stuff that people are
telling me about the faith.
But I think there are a numberof challenges there.
One is that, in that sense,science can't prove itself.
(15:39):
I mean, there's not any way toset up science except with its
own self-evident principleswhich themselves can't be proved
by observation and science isjust about observing things and
measuring things and thenpredicting outcomes based on
past events
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
but then people latch on to like you said they
want documentation they'll latchon to like crystals or astrology
and like I was saying to theother father Daniel this has
been studied and Jesus is themost documented person in all of
history like who's moredocumented and written about
than Jesus yet they'll be likeoh oh, like I believe in the
(16:17):
universe and karma and this andthat, I'm like, okay, and what's
your proof for that?
SPEAKER_02 (16:22):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
Other than your own anecdotal experience.
SPEAKER_02 (16:24):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, look, the universein that sense can't make domains
of you.
SPEAKER_01 (16:29):
Yeah, and people have their own rules.
I don't believe this.
I don't believe that.
You know what I mean?
I'm like, okay, you made up therules now?
SPEAKER_02 (16:37):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (16:38):
yeah.
That's not how life works.
That's not how religion works.
SPEAKER_02 (16:41):
I do think people are trying to find safety,
security, like that kind ofthing.
And I don't think thatChristianity is your landing
place if you're looking reallyfor safety and security.
I think it's your landing placeif you're interested in having a
relationship with God, a realrelationship with God, a real
relationship with Jesus.
And Jesus can walk into yourlife and upend a few things.
(17:04):
And I'm not sure that people areterribly inclined to have that
happen.
SPEAKER_01 (17:09):
Father, can you tell us a little bit about what made
you get into the priesthood?
Because I always wonder whatmakes people abandon the thought
of having a family and childrenand decide to pursue a path in
priesthood because it's reallylike a selfless thing.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat made you get into that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:31):
It can be a selfless thing.
I hope that it is for me.
Yeah, I think I grew up prettynormal upbringing.
From the time I was six or so, Ithought I was going to get
married, had girlfriends, prettyserious girlfriends along the
way there.
Maybe at eight years old, it wasserious girlfriends.
(17:53):
But yeah, I always just thought,I mean, that's the culture that
I was growing up in, veryfamily-centric, thank God.
Good, solid family.
My parents have good, solidmarriage.
And yeah, that was where myfocus was.
I never thought that I was goingto be a priest.
In fact, I didn't want to be apriest.
(18:15):
And interestingly enough, Ithink looking back on it today,
I'd have to say I was beingcalled to the priesthood, which
is why I can say to you as well,I didn't want to be a priest
because I think that God alongthe way was asking that question
of me, but my response was no.
So for anybody who knows me, I'moppositional.
(18:37):
I'm very
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
oppositional.
ODD, oppositional defiantdisorder.
SPEAKER_02 (18:41):
It certainly rises to the level of disorder, I
would say that.
So it's not surprising, even Godwould ask me to do something and
I would be trying to say no tohim.
And then, yeah, when I was in myearly 20s, it started coming to
me that I was going to have totake the time to figure out
whether or not I was beingcalled by God to be a priest.
(19:03):
So that was toward the end of mytime in college.
And then the years immediatelyfollowing those, I was really
thinking a lot about it, prayinga lot about it, actually still
trying to avoid it.
And then I went into seminaryand spent a couple years in
(19:24):
seminary.
In seminary, discerning,praying, studying.
SPEAKER_01 (19:28):
Can I ask you a quick question?
Yeah, you got it.
While you're in seminary, it'skind of like a meditative
process to decide if you want tobe a priest or not.
Or at this point, are you like,okay, this is what I'm doing?
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Yeah, so I think it depends.
I think it depends.
So for me, do you mean, or forpeople generally?
SPEAKER_01 (19:48):
Like generally, if you're in seminary, can you be
dating a girl?
SPEAKER_02 (19:51):
No, although there was a time not too long ago, I
mean, probably 40 or 50 yearsago or so.
Maybe it was more recent thanthat, where actually in
seminary, formators would beencouraging the guys to, to be
dating.
But it's such bad, it's not,what do you say, like common
(20:14):
wisdom?
It's like totally out the doorat this point.
It's not a good thing to bethinking that way.
SPEAKER_01 (20:19):
Yeah, by the time you enter seminary, you should
have almost made peace with thepriestly lifestyle.
SPEAKER_02 (20:25):
Yeah, at least with the potential sacrifice of
family and not dating and therest.
And again, there's...
I don't know, I think peopleusually speak about these things
out of their own experience, andthey'll say, oh, it was really
important for me to havegirlfriends growing up or to
have been in a seriousrelationship.
And then, of course, you've gota lot of other people who will
(20:46):
say, you know, it's not terriblyimportant.
I was never in a seriousrelationship, and it didn't
really matter in terms of my owndiscernment, figuring that out.
Yeah, and for me, I think Icould probably go both ways.
I think there's some sense ofbeing in a serious relationship
does foster something ofother-centeredness.
(21:07):
So I'm not just kind of centeredon myself.
I'm willing and able to makesacrifices for the other.
And I know what compromise inrelationship means.
But beyond that, I think, again,for me, again, had some baggage
from relationships that then...
made it a little bit difficultto discern my path forward,
certainly as a seminarian,growing to embrace what God was
(21:30):
calling me to.
So I spent two years inseminary, and then after that I
took a 30-day retreat, so asilent retreat.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01 (21:43):
Silent retreat for 30 days?
30
SPEAKER_02 (21:45):
days,
SPEAKER_01 (21:47):
yeah.
I think I can maybe try onehour, and it's tough for me.
SPEAKER_02 (21:50):
That's a
SPEAKER_01 (21:52):
lot.
SPEAKER_02 (21:52):
It's a lot.
And, you know, the retreat isintended for a state-of-life
discernment, as well as, say,going deeper into your vocation,
into your calling.
So...
It was good for me.
It was a very kind offoundational experience in my
own life, my life of prayer andfaith.
(22:14):
And eventually the fruit of thatretreat really allowed me to not
be so oppositional with God andto embrace what it was he wanted
for me.
And that was the priesthood.
SPEAKER_01 (22:28):
That's very cool.
If you weren't a priest, what doyou think you'd be doing?
Have you ever thought aboutthat?
SPEAKER_02 (22:34):
There are always things that I think I'd want to
be, I would have wanted to havebeen doing.
Like?
I would have loved to haveplayed soccer professionally and
growing up in England.
SPEAKER_00 (22:44):
Like a realistic one.
SPEAKER_02 (22:46):
Yeah, well, that's the point,
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
right?
Nothing
SPEAKER_02 (22:48):
seems realistic at this point.
It's like it's just what Godwanted me to do.
But when I was coming out ofcollege, I was coming out of
college with a dual major ineconomics and theology.
That was my undergraduate.
I always thought that economicswas...
going to be my practical degree.
That's where I'm gonna makemoney.
And then theology would just bemy passion.
(23:11):
And I remember going outactually to, I'm from New
Jersey, I'm living in NewJersey, so I went out to a
diner, okay?
Went out to a diner with a goodfriend of our family's who was
at the time, I think he wasworking for Fleet Bank or
whatever, one of the big banks.
And I was going out to eat withhim so that I could see whether
(23:34):
or not there was an opportunityto work.
And he said to me, I do have oneregret in life, and that was not
really checking out thepriesthood.
SPEAKER_01 (23:45):
Father, when you say you were called to priesthood,
like, what does that mean?
Is it like a voice or is it likesomething in your heart or...?
How does that look like?
SPEAKER_02 (23:53):
I think we all experience it a little bit
differently.
And I've never...
I don't think I've ever had thekind of auditory...
I'm tempted to sayhallucination, actually, but
I'll just say I've never had theauditory experience.
You know, those clear words.
And I know that actually anumber of people have had that
experience, but that's not myexperience.
(24:15):
My experience was actuallygrowth in trust.
It's perhaps a strange way tosay it, but there was...
a good and wise Jesuit that Iknew who would say, discernment
is not about clarity, it's abouttrust.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
I like that
SPEAKER_02 (24:34):
quote.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
Discernment is not about clarity, it's about trust.
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
Yeah, because I think usually we're looking for
the answer to our question.
Probably, in reality, we havesome inclination, right?
We have some understanding ofwhat the answer is.
and it's ours to perhaps trustit more deeply.
So yeah, I mean, by the time Iwas committing myself to
(24:59):
ordination, I was convinced thatGod had called me to the
priesthood and I was making thenthis reciprocal yes, and as much
as I could muster, right?
So God is giving me his wholeself and I'm pouring myself out
to him in that particularexpression.
(25:23):
So saying, I'm going to say yes,okay, I can follow you, Jesus,
into the priesthood.
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
It's such an incredibly selfless path to take
in life.
It's also like eight years ofgoing to school.
What's that about?
It should be like 18 months.
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
You
SPEAKER_01 (25:42):
know what I mean?
It's like, I want to say...
but I'm not.
I'm committing myself to othersand God, and now I have to go to
school for eight years on top ofthat?
That's an incredible, that'slike medical school.
SPEAKER_02 (25:54):
That's
SPEAKER_01 (25:55):
a lot.
It's quite an undertaking.
SPEAKER_02 (25:57):
It's a long process.
It's a long process.
And I think it's daunting.
It's not for the faint of heart.
I
SPEAKER_01 (26:04):
bet it's hard, too.
And you have to learn Latin andall sorts of stuff.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (26:09):
Thankfully, you can get by without learning too much
Latin.
But I think it's...
SPEAKER_01 (26:13):
When you go to give someone their last rites, are
there any common themes that yousee or you recognize or observe
in people that...
that was like insightful to youor like it could be insightful
to other people?
SPEAKER_02 (26:29):
Going to see people at that time of their life is, I
mean, that's tough.
It's tough all around.
And it's not pleasant also forpriests.
You know, it's just not.
It's a tough time.
And sometimes you have familyaround, sometimes you don't have
family.
You never really know whatyou're walking into.
(26:52):
But what I would say is I thinkthat People derive great comfort
from prayers.
So when I walk in, trying topray with the people, and if
they're conscious at all, andyou don't really know, right,
because it's very hard tomeasure, like I'll say the Our
(27:14):
Father or something, and youjust see their mouth moving and
the way that So
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
sad.
SPEAKER_02 (27:20):
They would have to pray that
SPEAKER_01 (27:22):
prayer.
But it's kind of happy a littlebit, too.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
Oh, it's great, yeah.
It's sad, of course, but it'sgreat to see that they respond.
And sometimes you go and seepeople who have not been
responsive really for some time,and you start praying, and
they're responsive.
SPEAKER_01 (27:41):
I love that.
SPEAKER_02 (27:41):
Yeah, it's great.
It's enlivening, right?
I mean, prayer, we wanteverybody to pray.
And in part, at least in part,because we know that prayer is
enlivening.
So then it's really good forpeople.
So yeah, it's a challenge, Ithink, to minister to the sick
and dying.
And of course, there's no, say,uniform experience of that.
(28:07):
So there are people, I have tosay, I mean, A lot of people, at
least for me, when I walk in andwe're going to go through that
ritual, I'm encountering peoplewho are relatively at peace.
They're happier for having methere and that kind of thing.
(28:29):
I do occasionally have peoplewho are not at peace and it's
frightening.
I mean, I find it frightening.
The possibility of regretwithout repentance.
But it seems to me that as soonas you say, help me, that Jesus
(28:51):
is on the spot.
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
Father, is it wrong that I have this super strong
devotion to Mary and I probablysay more prayers to her than I
do to Jesus?
SPEAKER_02 (29:03):
Yeah, I don't...
I mean...
I'm not your spiritual director,of course, but not yet anyway.
Yeah, it's not wrong.
I mean, there's no easycategories there to say...
If
SPEAKER_01 (29:15):
I get scared, I say the Hail Mary.
If I'm happy, I say the HailMary.
I mean, I do pray to Jesus, butI'm just saying, like, I just...
She's kind of on speed dial forme.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_02 (29:24):
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, I think...
Look, I mean, this is what we'retalking about with saints as
well, right?
Is that we have some comfortwith them.
And they're...
say, easy at hand.
I
SPEAKER_01 (29:36):
call them middle management.
SPEAKER_02 (29:38):
Yeah, I mean, I
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
think...
She's VP.
SPEAKER_02 (29:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
he's the present CEO.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then we have middlemanagement, and then you guys
are...
Father Daniel calls you guysmiddle management.
I think of you guys as theassistants.
SPEAKER_02 (29:53):
Yeah, well, yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (29:54):
yeah.
And you're the saints.
SPEAKER_02 (29:57):
Who knows?
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Let's talk about God-made versus man-made roles.
Okay.
I feel like...
priests getting married or notmarried is a man-made
SPEAKER_02 (30:07):
rule.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Because why can't they get married?
SPEAKER_02 (30:10):
We have a rich tradition of celibate clergy in
the Western church.
In the Eastern churches, theretends to be more of the married
clergy.
But we actually do have marriedpriests also in the Western
(30:31):
Church.
SPEAKER_01 (30:32):
So you can't get married once you've been a
priest, but if you're married,you can become a priest and keep
your wife.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
Yeah, so in very limited situations.
So the scope is pretty narrow onthat.
You would have to have been amarried Protestant minister
converting to Catholicism.
And then...
you might have, should thebishop discern that as well, you
(31:00):
might have the opportunity tobecome a Catholic clergyman.
So you would then be a Catholicpriest with a wife.
SPEAKER_01 (31:08):
So it's not a God-made rule.
It's a man-made tradition rule.
SPEAKER_02 (31:12):
It's so hard to say that, though, because I think
it's difficult to have that kindof distinction to say what is
God-made and what is man-madebecause we want to live into the
will of God.
So even if there are what youmight see as somewhat changeable
rules in the church, like Isaid, this is...
(31:33):
Celibacy is a custom of thechurch or a discipline.
There's not a dogmatic point ofreference there.
SPEAKER_01 (31:45):
Like if you kiss somebody, are you still
celibate?
SPEAKER_02 (31:50):
We ought to be careful with our hearts.
I think we're not that carefulwith our hearts, which is why
today I think a whole swath ofthe population believe that sex
is a recreational activity.
SPEAKER_01 (32:03):
100%.
And I think less and less peopleare getting married.
SPEAKER_02 (32:07):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (32:08):
I think they said the amount of women that are not
going to be married in mydaughter's generation, I guess
Gen Z, is like exponentiallymore than my generation.
SPEAKER_02 (32:19):
Yeah, it's growing, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:20):
Yeah, it's kind of sad.
SPEAKER_02 (32:23):
That's the path we're on, I think.
I mean, we're radicallyindividualistic.
And the sad thing about it isthat a lot of people live with
regrets for having followed thatpath.
SPEAKER_01 (32:33):
I think we're treating each other as
commodities.
I was going to say commodities,yeah.
Yeah, people are treating eachother in the dating world as
commodities.
The
SPEAKER_02 (32:44):
worst thing is, and this is what happens I think as
a result of idolatry, is that wecommodify ourselves.
So in fact, I'm a commodity whenI venture out into the
quote-unquote world throughsocial media, right?
So I'm presenting myself in aparticular way.
And that's aself-commodification, I think.
SPEAKER_01 (33:06):
And the dating apps.
Oh, she's got a cute body.
Oh, I don't like her hair orwhatever.
And then...
it's not just on the men it's onthe women too well if you
SPEAKER_02 (33:15):
don't like her hair
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
you can't be you can't no but what I'm saying
it's not just on the men like Iknow I'm like villainizing the
men right now like by swipingright on all these women or she
looks good or she doesn't lookgood or her rear end looks good
or whatever but it's on thewomen too it's on the women too
that like put up with thenonsense too like I think we
need to as women like go back toa little bit of our core
(33:36):
traditional values
SPEAKER_02 (33:38):
right right well the tough
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
thing is it's a big cycle bad cycle going on
SPEAKER_02 (33:41):
yeah We are interpersonal beings.
So I always like to saysomething like we're creatures
with faces.
So we're oriented outside ofourselves, right?
But the problem with so much ofthis activity that has kind of
masqueraded as social activityis that it's not outward
(34:02):
looking.
It's inward looking.
And so when you start to destroyrelationships, I think you have
big problems.
SPEAKER_01 (34:08):
Yeah, agree.
SPEAKER_02 (34:09):
And then you say, you know, we don't have...
roots the way i mean i'm thisway myself as well there's no
blame here but um we don't haveroots like we used to have and
then actually things likemarriage are not what they used
to be either so you know we'retalking about celibacy before
right how that and how that fitsinto the way society is and the
(34:32):
way the church is?
And those are really bigquestions.
I think marriage is a similarkind of thing, actually.
Now, of course, they're bothgood and God-given, but marriage
used to be really the comingtogether of two families.
If you consider the fact thatpeople wouldn't really journey
that far, they wouldn't go thatfar, they wouldn't travel that
(34:54):
far away from where they grewup.
So then you're talking about avery different, much more
complex relationship, not justbetween people, but between
families.
And those systems would allsupport marriage as the norm.
But because we've lost a lot ofour roots, I think good
(35:19):
marriages perhaps are harder tocome by today.
They're more difficult tomaintain.
SPEAKER_01 (35:25):
Because, I mean, women are working and they're
expected to bring an equalincome and then do all the
traditional mother-wife duties.
SPEAKER_00 (35:34):
I
SPEAKER_01 (35:35):
mean, I sound probably pretty aggressive,
pro-woman, but...
SPEAKER_02 (35:38):
Yeah, yeah, I think we should be pro-woman.
And I think, I mean, where wouldwe be without the feminine
genius?
And I think that the world stillhas a way to go to catch up with
what women have to offer.
I just think we've put ourselvesin difficult positions as it
relates to things like theeconomy, which drives everything
(35:59):
for us.
SPEAKER_01 (36:00):
Right, and we all want more.
We all want
SPEAKER_02 (36:02):
more,
SPEAKER_01 (36:03):
yeah.
Life is not so simple like whenour grandparents' generation.
SPEAKER_02 (36:08):
I tend to think that it could be.
This is my challenge as aromantic, right?
I tend to think that it could besimple.
We're not going to go for it atthis point.
SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
What is the hardest part of being a priest?
SPEAKER_02 (36:22):
Hmm.
I do think sometimes it'sloneliness.
And I don't think a lot of guysare going to be willing to say
that.
SPEAKER_01 (36:33):
I would think that, but at the same time, I don't
even know how you have time forloneliness because I feel like
everyone wants a piece of you.
Hey, Father, I have thisproblem.
Hey, Father, I have this, youknow?
But I think that's very coolthat you admitted that.
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
Well, there's something about...
Again, I'm not terribly lonely,and I don't think we really lack
for companionship, but I thinkthere's something about creating
stories together
SPEAKER_01 (37:02):
that
SPEAKER_02 (37:05):
can be a challenge for the priest today.
SPEAKER_01 (37:09):
How about a best friend?
SPEAKER_02 (37:10):
Yeah, I think that's a challenge.
SPEAKER_01 (37:13):
Is it?
Why?
SPEAKER_02 (37:14):
There are a number of domains, and of course, I
don't have to say doctors andsurgeons and whatever.
People do this.
People have lives of real highdemand.
And they find ways to alsoaccompany people through life
and build and write storiestogether and that kind of thing.
(37:36):
So I don't think it's just thedemands, but I do think the kind
of drop everything and go kindof thing is quite...
It's hard to cultivaterelationships of significant
depth without at the same timeprioritizing the relationship of
(37:57):
significant depth.
But where is it going to land onthe priorities?
And I think for a priest to dothat and do that well, it's
going to be a bit of achallenge.
SPEAKER_01 (38:07):
I guess you guys are like first responders.
SPEAKER_02 (38:10):
To some extent.
I don't think a ton of our lifeis going to be like that, but I
do think that people have reallyextraordinary access to us.
But that might just be, youknow, I'm thinking about it that
way because I'm an introvert.
SPEAKER_00 (38:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (38:26):
And it's like, ah, someone's ringing the doorbell.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Wait, do you think that most...
What's going on?
Do you think that most priestsare...
If you had to, like...
classify, generalize allpriests?
Are they extroverts orintroverts?
Because I feel like you have tobe an extrovert to be a priest
because you're up there doinghomilies.
You have to establish thisintimacy with people.
You're a counselor.
You're going to do the lastrite.
(38:52):
You're doing a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Right.
So I would say I think therehave been some shifts over the
generations.
And I think where the priesthoodhas been held in really high
esteem and where you've seen,yeah, like the priest is the
leader of the community and he'scenter stage all the time and
that kind of thing.
(39:13):
And perhaps he's even somethingmore of an activist in what I
would consider the politicalrealm, even if it's not like
narrowly political.
Like he's campaigning for abetter world, right?
Like right where he is and he'sworking to do good things in the
public eye.
I think that you're likely tofind people more extroverts in
(39:35):
that kind of mode or modality ofpriesthood.
And I think the priesthood is orhas been trending away from that
a little bit into the realm ofinterior life.
Priests as spiritual directors,they want to cultivate the life
of holiness in others.
(39:56):
they're committed to a life ofprayer themselves, then I think
you're much more likely to findintroverts.
SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
The Jesuits are probably introverts.
SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
They might
SPEAKER_01 (40:07):
be.
Yeah, it's a
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
good question.
SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
They're so intellectual.
SPEAKER_02 (40:10):
They're all over the place.
This is the way the Jesuits are.
I mean,
SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
I'm a Jesuit educated...
The Dominicans too, I think.
But you know what?
You could ask
SPEAKER_02 (40:19):
them.
I mean, that
SPEAKER_01 (40:19):
would be a great question for them.
I'll ask the Dominicans.
I have a lot of Dominicanfriends.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Communities usually have some mix of introverts and
extroverts, right?
And I think, again, that's partof the challenge of the way that
the diocesan priesthood or likeyour kind of, we call it the
secular priesthood.
So it just kind of means likewe're on the front lines.
Yeah.
The way that the secularpriesthood is lived out today
(40:43):
is, We're in a tough spotbecause there's more work than
we can handle.
You have a lot of people, a lotof priests who, they have two
parishes, three parishes, fourparishes.
They're still supposed to havethis intimacy with their
SPEAKER_00 (41:00):
parishioners.
That's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (41:02):
And if you're darting around from one to the
other, it's just really hard tofigure out what the needs of the
people are.
Even for me, in my situationwhere I have one parish, but I'm
the only priest of that parish.
I'm also running a school.
I'm also trying to meet theneeds of people in other ways.
(41:22):
There's more work there than Ican handle really.
SPEAKER_01 (41:24):
It's not until this year that I really began to
humanize priests.
I think maybe that's a part ofadding to loneliness because I
went to Catholic school my wholelife and it was like, be quiet,
the priest is coming.
It's not until I got into thisbusiness that I ended up
(41:46):
realizing They're just like us.
Totally different personalities,totally different perspectives
on things.
And it's like something that Ijust learned into my 50s, you
know?
Okay, now, you claimed lastnight that you were going to
break the world record forpraying the rosary.
SPEAKER_00 (42:03):
There's no way, but yeah.
But wait.
SPEAKER_01 (42:06):
Let's talk about the rosary.
Are Catholics the only religionthat prays the rosary?
I think we are.
SPEAKER_02 (42:12):
Yeah, I think...
I think so.
SPEAKER_01 (42:15):
Yeah.
So tell me about why we pray therosary and give me a little
history about the rosary.
Why those particular prayers inthat order?
Tell me about it.
SPEAKER_02 (42:26):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's largely tradition at
this point.
I'm not an expert in the rosary.
But I do know that what we usedto have with the rosary was
three sets of five mysteriescovering what we'd say the
significant...
life events in uh in jesus'slife one of the reasons why pope
(42:48):
john paul ii comes back andgives us the luminous mysteries
which is a fourth set ofmysteries is because there were
any number of things that arescripturally very significant
were not represented in in themysteries in the original set of
15 mysteries if you put allthose hail marys together you've
got 150 hail marys and in thepsalter so in the book of psalms
(43:11):
you have 150 psalms So priests,in the prayer that they pray,
say with the church, the prayerof the church, we make our way
through the Psalms now, onceevery four weeks, we're gonna
(43:32):
pray every Psalm.
So the idea of the Rosary, myunderstanding of it anyway, the
origin and tradition of theRosary, is to have people have
better access So like in thesense of priests are going to
pray 150 Psalms, the people canpray 150 Hail Marys.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
Oh, I see.
Okay.
I read somewhere, I'm not sureif it's right, that Mary created
the rosary.
She invented the rosary, as Ialways tell my kids.
I invented this, I inventedthat.
Mary invented the rosary andgave it to St.
Dominic's to basically teach therest of the world how to pray
the rosary.
SPEAKER_02 (44:10):
Right.
Yeah, I mean, that's what weunderstand to be the origin
story of the rosary.
SPEAKER_01 (44:17):
What's the biggest lie the devil tells us?
SPEAKER_02 (44:22):
I think it's got to be something like, you're not
loved.
You're not worthy.
SPEAKER_01 (44:30):
I think that's where a lot of wounds come from.
SPEAKER_02 (44:35):
Yeah, I think, I mean, we exist because God loves
us into existence, right?
The very, we talk about thebasic building blocks of life
and that kind of thing, what tosay, like carbon, carbon-based
life form and all this kind ofstuff, right?
But actually the most basicbuilding block of life is the
love of God.
SPEAKER_01 (44:55):
That's beautiful.
When I was at Magigori, one ofthe visionaries asked when they
had a vision of the Virgin,said, you are so beautiful.
Like, why are you so beautiful?
She said, I am full of love.
And I guess the youngestvisionary turned to one of the
girls and said, something like,you don't have that much love in
you.
(45:16):
Basically dissing or sayingyou're not as beautiful.
UNKNOWN (45:19):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (45:19):
Thank you so much, Father, for coming on our
podcast and answering all thequestions we had for you.
And I think other people wantedto know some of the answers to
these questions we asked.
SPEAKER_02 (45:30):
Yeah, we're very happy to have been here with
you.
So thanks for the opportunity.
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