May 27, 2025 • 36 mins
What happens when we finally admit, "I’m not okay"? In this first episode of Beyond the Window, La Ventana’s Clinical Directors Jennifer Enriquez, LMFT and Bryce Colvard, LMFT explore the pivotal moment between denial and healing—how trauma shapes our stories, why shame clings, and what it takes to start moving forward.
This is a conversation about truth-telling, the weight of unspoken pain, and the small but brave steps toward wholeness. Because healing doesn’t begin with being "fine." It begins with honesty.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
In order to even start doing the work,you've got to come
to some sort of landing with the strugglethat is trauma.
Because we can talk about itand write about it.
And if we continue to hit our own shame
button, that it's even existing in usand around us to begin with.
That's another barrier, right?
And we risk like flooding ourselves.Right?
(00:21):
Not being in the best positionto even start doing that work.
A truth about healing.
Before we can move forward,we must first face what holds us back.
This is Beyond the Window, a podcastfrom La Ventana Treatment programs,
where we explore the unseen struggles andtransformative possibilities of recovery.
In this episode, clinical directorsBryce Colvard and Jennifer
(00:43):
Enriquez trace the tangled relationshipbetween trauma and shame
and how compassion can become the bridgeto the other side.
Here's their conversation.
Welcome to Beyond the Window.
I'm Jennifer Enriquez, I'ma licensed marriage and family therapist
and clinical director at La Ventana.
And I'm Bryce Colvard, also a licensed
(01:04):
marriage and family therapist and alsoclinical director at La Ventana
So great.
Loved working with you these past years.
And it's something that we've both beenso passionate about is talking about
shame and trauma and how that can bethis barrier and treatment.
And so today, what we decidedto talk about on our podcast
(01:26):
is how on the other side of shameis healing.
Yeah.
So our first question is for ECE, ECE,ECE Upar BB ups.
What is shame look like? Yeah.
So I have this huge passion
for shame because it's not a diagnosis.
It's not a population.
It's it's own presenting thing.
(01:48):
And it's the thing that embeds itselfinside of humans from every walk of life,
from every background, from every age,from every from every everything.
And so shame more kind of simply definedis the belief system of being that.
Right.
It's like,
the difference between guilt and shameas guilt as I feel bad, shame as I am bad.
(02:10):
It's that integral belief system that I,because of who I am, where I come from,
what I've experienced in my lifeinherently makes me bad.
And wrong and flawed and not worthy.
And that embeds itself into your psyche,
you know, profoundly,and then comes out in addiction
(02:32):
and mental healthand within that becomes this like, well,
if I believe that I'm bad, then how am Igoing to convince myself that I need help,
that I'm, like, deserving of help?
Yeah, this is like huge.
We frequently talk about like,these barriers of treatment. Yeah.
And I don't think shame is talked aboutenough as it's like barrier treatment.
Yeah for sure.
(02:53):
And so what can we encouragesomeone that maybe is exploring.
Maybe they're watching this podcastright now exploring like these
first steps into like getting help
and what that could look like becauseit can seem like this huge monster, right?
This huge mountain in front of me.And I'm so terrified.
And I've got maybe these huge, you know,fears about what it could look like.
(03:16):
And I've got all of these,you know, misconceptions.
So when, when I'm on that side of healing,
what can be this first thing that I canmaybe start to tell myself, yeah.
Before I get that professional help.
Yeah, that could help me kind of go, okay.
Or just maybe, just maybe I can. Yeah.
Take that first step through that door.Yeah.
(03:37):
I mean, as, I think as, as clichesit sounds are, as you know,
people often say like the first stepis like admitting I have a problem, right?
It's it's the first step is going like,I'm I'm not okay.
Right.
My, my life is falling apart ormy emotions are out of, you know, my grasp
right now or something happened to meand I'm not okay with it.
(04:00):
I'm not feeling well.
I'm not like however somebodywants to phrase it, it's it's having that.
I think vulnerable moment with yourselfto go like I'm not okay
because that combatsyou're an internalized shame
that you have of like,do I just pretend like everything's not?
Do I just keep it together?
Because if that's where we're starting outwith,
(04:21):
then yeah, reaching out to somebody else,involving anybody else
or another system in the equationis insurmountable at that point.
Right.
So it's startingwith like looking in the mirror
and like having this conversation of like,I'm not okay.
And I, I, I don't know what to do.
And moving through that fear in a waythat's, that's going to allow you to go.
(04:42):
I need help.
And that help is somewhereoutside of myself, even if you don't know.
You know,we now talk about the the hardest thing.
Sometimes you just pick up the phone.You don't know the answer.
You don't knowwhat it's going to look like.
There's so many unknownsand like that's scary.
But if the first thing you do is like,pick up the phone and go, I don't know.
(05:03):
I don't know what, I don't know what I, meand I don't know where I'm going.
I don't know howthis is going to look. Right.
But I'm not okay.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, something that hit meis when you're talking,
I think we don't even have to have, like,a severe mental health lecture.
I love what you talked about.
Like, it's not this disorder, right?
Like shame is not somethingyou give a mad to, right?
(05:25):
It's not a diagnosis. No.
It's something that everyone can have.
And when you talked about this piece of,like sharing it.
Yeah. And and picking up the phone. Yeah.
It's like all right.
Like my shame gets touchedwhen it's like this
picture of like, I, I'm not like this.
Perfect. Right.
(05:45):
It's like I have this idea of like I'mthis strong single mom.
I'm this badass clinical director.
I've got it all together.
I don't
have this, whatever it might be.
And Iand and it takes even as a clinician.
We always joke when you say therapist metherapist doctor who needs doctors.
(06:08):
Right. Yeah.
And so even as a therapistwe need to be able to say
like I need to reach out and saylike I can't do this alone.
Yeah.
Because we don't heal in in ones. Right.
We heal in community,whether that's within the 12 steps.
Right?
Whether that's within treatment,whether that's within your family system.
(06:29):
It takes that community piece. Yeah.
So part of that takes that vulnerability.
The heart of that takes this piece of it's
okay to be truly seen.
And it's not can to be perfect.
Yeah.
And it's got to be a little messy. Yeah.
And I think that's this partthat some will relate to.
(06:54):
And like I know I relate withthat is like absolutely same.
Right.
Like my best friend's like my best friendbecause she's in the trenches with me.
Right.
She's seen the ugliest parts of whatevermy life has shown up with.
Right. And so that's my person.
That's who I go to.
I always fix my mom,my dad, my brother, whoever. Yeah.
And so so I have that because I've,
(07:16):
I've allowed myselfto show those other parts.
Yeah.
It's a human connection thing. Absolutely.
But then you look on my social media
and it's the Facebook highlight reel.
Right.
And it looks likeshe does no wrong for right.
And so I think there's likethis misconception and we hold on
(07:37):
so tightly to the Facebook InstagramTikTok highlight reel of my life.
Yeah. Of how we want to present.
Yeah that it separates usand it becomes this gap
between my shame will allow meto really let her myself.
Right.
And all we really need to take pause.
(07:59):
Yeah.
And gohow how do I find this balance in between?
Am I gonna let this image, this ego.
Which is also rooted in shame.
The ego. Right. Roy how do I protect that.
That's next I. Talk.
Am I going to allow myselfto let that out way.
Yeah.
Me getting this connection and healing.
(08:20):
And and need that. Right.
Because it's like the need of,
of support the need of a woundsI have a trauma
I have a symptom, I have,
you know,something is happening inside of me
that has nothing to do with my success,has nothing to do with
(08:42):
who I am in the world,whether it's my roles or my vocation.
It's simplybecause I'm human, right? Right.
And so often we'll see in treatmentlike that is the barrier right of of okay,
I've gotten myself hereand yet even still,
the shame comes upand gets in our own way of like
putting one foot in front of the otheror staying in treatment.
(09:05):
Right?
So it shows up in every aspect
of human connection, of seeking help of
relationships, of childhood, of dealingwith past, of dealing with the present.
Like it's it's so profoundand yet we don't talk about it.
Right.
It's like the silentkiller, literally sometimes.
Literally.
Yeah.
(09:25):
Yeah, yeah.
What does a for someone that
can look at okay maybe,maybe I've got the hook.
Maybe. Okay.
I recognizemy life is becoming unmanageable.
I'm not functioning.
(09:46):
I do need more support at whateverlevel of care that may look like. I'm.
I know I've got this trauma.
Yeah.
Whether it happened six months ago
or four decades ago.
What is initial trauma workeven look like.
Yeah.
Because I think there'slike a lot of misconceptions.
(10:08):
We hear them so frequently.
Yeah.
So what does that look like.
So we can take athe stigma out of it. Yeah.
And be the fear out of itto really normalize and create this safe
transition into what it could look likeso people can feel safe
addressing some of that traumathat hasn't been touched.
(10:30):
Yeah, I think and it's it's always both.
Right.
We always talk about like you,they go hand in hand. Right.
You can't talk about traumawithout talking about shame.
You usually can't talk about shamewithout talking about trauma. Right.
So it's this it's this duality in it,and it's the fact that
trauma in and of itselfhas so many misconceptions
and some so much, you know, stigma around
(10:53):
what I should have been able to handle.
Right?
Because initial trauma workis, is one going,
I radically accept that trauma is a partof the human experience sometimes.
Right.
That I that I am not,that no one person is like
absolved of a traumatic experienceor slate.
(11:14):
Right? Yeah.
It's not to happen or not to it'sit's it's kind of everything.
Right.
So it's first understandinglike what the definition of trauma is.
Trauma is an abundance of stressfor one specific person.
And my level of stress is very different
than your level of stressis very different than somebody else's.
So it's my sister, response
(11:35):
to an abundance of stress,to the point of not
being able to function or to the pointof having certain things show up for me,
that is a reflection of my experience
or the internalization of my experience.
And so often people go,if I can just put as much space
between me and my trauma,then I'll just like, be all right.
(11:56):
Because time heals all wounds. Right?
But it doesn't it.
Doesn't know this. Yeah.
This is the one. Like,you can make the case for some things.
Maybe, but like that I think that's onelike radical misconception.
Right. And it's it's an avoidance tactic.
And it makes sense because if you can sayjust give it time, just give it time.
(12:17):
It gives that sense of like control.
When I lost it in my trauma,right in my childhood, in
my relationship, in my DV,in my addiction, like whatever it was.
Right.
So I think the first thing is going,what am I working with?
Can I accept that trauma is a humanexperience sometimes is my fault, right.
(12:39):
Because I think in order to even startfor a a a a a a a a a a, you've
got to come to some sort of landingwith the struggle that is trauma,
because we can talk about itright about it.
And if,if we continue to hit our own shame button
that it's even existing in usand around us to begin with,
that's another barrier, right?
(12:59):
And we risk like flooding ourselves.Right?
Not being in the best positionto even start doing that work.
Right.
You know,
and I think another big misconceptionis like, well, if I just talk about it
once and I can just do that and say,you know, okay, this, this happened to me,
then I can just put that in a box.
(13:21):
And that box lives in my life and,and that's and that's that.
Yeah.
And the thing about correctingthat is that trauma work is integration.
It's to literally integrate that.
The story is a part of your story, right?
That this experience issomething that you know, is
(13:41):
a part of you in many ways, or that,you know, is a part of your past,
and you've got to learn to be around itand with it and understand
it and manage itand integrate it into your human existence
in order to find healing in general.
Yeah.
And it's it's something that it's not, youknow, we really want it to be this easy.
(14:01):
It's at times, right.
If I, if I talk about itand I'm healed and eight.
Weeks of residential it, I can just do it.
Amazing. Right.
I love time for you.
Right. 30 days, two weeks. Right.
But the trauma is within ourit is within our body.
Right.
And so it's learning to listento what our body is telling us.
(14:25):
Right.
Whether it's through my poor sleep,my anxiety, my flashbacks.
Like we can go on and on and onabout what trauma can look like
and how it can come about.
We frequently talk about how it comes outsideways, right
through your ability, through it, throughwhat have you.
And so it's how do I manage those pieces?
It's not just the story of what happened,it's how is it impacting me now?
(14:49):
How am I managing it now? Right.
So it doesn't keep me in this cyclegoing forward.
Yeah. Yeah yeah.
And like perpetuatingthis maladaptive piece
we ally ECE ECE ECE ece to ECE, ECE, ECE,we've come to a head right.
We've been doing whatever we've been doingand sometimes they're really effective.
(15:09):
So. Right.
It's like numbingis really, really effective.
And shoving it downand distracting and using and you know,
sleeping too much or too littleor being really perfect and just like,
oh, if I just keep it all together, like,those are brilliant strategies.
Those are, you know, and, and and and not
long lasting and not sustainable.
(15:30):
Right.
And that's huge. Right.
Is is it sustainable.
It's keeping me I am I am a workaholic.
Yeah.
So I'm thriving in this part of my life.
Right. And I'm stuffing it down. Yeah.
Until I'm startingto have uncontrollable flashbacks,
until I'm starting to have panic attacksin my work room and bathroom.
(15:53):
Rightuntil it starts to be where my alcoholism
is now, floodinginto where it's not just functional.
Yeah, right.
And so it becomes this thing of it worksuntil it doesn't.
Right.
And so that's where it becomes okayI need this professional help
to where we startlooking at instead of maladaptive.
How do we get to this placeof like healthy coping skills.
(16:16):
Yeah. Right.
Yeah.
And so that's a lot of the workthat we do in residential.
Right.
This 24 hour care pieceis like getting this foundation under you
to be able to manage it, to be ableto have this life, to be able to.
Yeah.
Get it,move it to where it's not as impacting.
Overwhelming. Yeah. Right. All consuming.
(16:37):
Yeah yeah yeah I think so often it's it's
what where I likeI think of the word like adapt right.
It's like you know we have that capacityto go through really hard things.
I always talk about like, you know, being,
kind ofphysiological and like, neurological,
(16:58):
you know, feeling that I am, you know,I have this, like, fascination
and this all of just,you know, the way that the human brain
and and our physical touchcan adapt to adversity, right?
We're not we're not supposed to do these,you know, really high level, very,
you know, succinct,you know, ways of coping
(17:20):
at the most extreme, at the most intense,like forever.
Right, right.
And this idea that I can radically acceptthat, like, I, I can have something
happen to me, sol apartand become a stronger version of myself.
Like, is adapting rightthat I that humans have that capacity.
So I will talk about in you know, theterms of trauma work and and shame work.
(17:46):
Right.
It's it's when I struggle to find the hopelike within myself.
Like I've got to look for itoutside of myself.
Right.
I've got to go that like,I know this is possible because science.
Right?I know this is possible because it's fact.
I'm in a place where I don't believe it,
because my shame tells methat I am awful and undeserving,
and the worst of the worstbecause of what happened to me.
(18:09):
And so, you know, I'll talk about,like with our clients, like I'll hold
the hope, right?
You're not ready to take it because youdon't feel like you're deserving of it.
Right?
So I'm going to hold it for youin my area of expertise
and knowing that it's possible,and walking this journey with
so many clientsbefore you and seeing the work
and practicing what I preach,because I believe in it, right of like
(18:31):
when you're ready to take off, when you'reready to go, I'm going to shift
that belief system of like my,my trauma means that I'm broken.
It goes numb.
My trauma happenedand it was hard and painful.
And the worst thingthat I've ever experienced.
And I can be resilient.
Yeah, right. And I can be vulnerable.
And I can have healing from that
(18:54):
because I am not inherently broken.
So I can ask for help.
I think one of the
honors of like doing this workis this quote
that came up just a few days ago,which I thought was so sad.
And it is is this nerve shame dies when,
(19:18):
oh my gosh,I'm going to get the exact quote
because I don't want to mess it up.
But it's shame dieswhen stories are told in safe places.
Yeah,
and for so many different
people, safety can be skewed.
So it's findingwhat a safety look like for me
(19:38):
and what is such an honoras being in this field where we get to be
sometimes someone's only safe placewhere they've quite literally never told.
Yeah, or felt comfortable,telling this story.
And it truly istold in a place where it is no judgment.
Yeah. Where it's not
(20:00):
shocking.
Where it's, it's something that is seenthat is supported.
We talk about this shield by shieldright alongside of you that it's.
Army of. Support. Absolutely.
On on multiple different levels. Right.
And so it's there'sthis, there's 0000000000 power in that.
And I think that's what's so specialabout these programs that we have
(20:24):
is that we see day in dayto day, these clients that have these
transformative experiences from coming in
at quite literally their lowest point,
their most shame riddled points.
Yeah. To
I'm gonna allow yeah.
(20:44):
Some vulnerability. Yeah.
And it's metwith that therapist in the room.
And and this shame starts to dieand this healing starts to come.
And I always talk about thissort of three week
chuckle right around this three weekswe see this.
If they are smile for the first timeand it's this guest.
(21:07):
Yeah. That like that's our job.
That's our career. Like whatwhat an. Honor.
In gift and honorto be a part of that. Yeah.
And and to create that space.
Yeah.
Of I'm sometimes it's I'mjust holding space for you.
I'm not. We can't change what happened.
I'm not fixing. I'm not fixing.
(21:29):
Yeah, because you're not broken,
right?
Like it?
I'm not here to fix you.
Right? I'm here to hold space for you.
I'm here to walk with you.I'm here to show up for you.
But if you need that, fixingthat would have reinforced the belief
that you're broken.
You have broken. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's, you know, we
(21:51):
the the the core crux of trauma workis like seeking safety, right?
You can't talk about itif you're not safe.
Right.
And when you talk about really nicheand specialized trauma treatment right.
Done. Right.
It's can you cope.
Can you do you have a toolbox? Right.
Are you in a safe environment right.
Before we even get to what happened?
It's like recognizing of do I doI know what's safe?
(22:14):
Have I ever experienced and do I needcorrective experiences with that first?
Right.
Because even as you know, traumainformed care
and and that's a big buzzwordin the field, right.
Like the trauma specialist. Right.
And trauma informedbecause it feels like that's saving grace.
Right. Like that's the lightat the end of the tunnel. Right.
(22:34):
And so I'm in the throesand I don't know anything about the field.
Like, of course I'm going to goyeah I have a saying.
And you've got this thing and,and I'm, I'm going to connect with that.
Right.
But so often it's, it's,it comes from within.
It's that you've got to have this inwardand outward
safety piece of,can you feel safe in your own body?
Are you safe in your environment?
(22:56):
Can you seek outsafety in an unsafe world?
Right.
Because if we can't do thatand then we start opening up
wounds, you'rejust running around bleeding, right?
And so it'show do I learn how to patch myself up?
Because, you know, one thing I always talkabout is like my wellness
cannot be contingenton the actions of others.
(23:19):
And again. My wellness
cannot be
contingent on the actions of others.
I can't be well, when somebody gives methe apology, I can't be well.
When somebody fixes me, I can't be well.
When I get enough money, right,or I stop doing these things
that my wellness has to be my own.
(23:41):
We cannot have contingencies and health
and wellness and healingbecause then it's this.
It's this almost illusion of safety,right?
It's this almost like very temporary.Again.
Is it sustainable?
Right.
Is this person, is this thing,is this whatever going to be my concern?
Because at the end of the day,it's it's the person
staring back at you in the mirror.That's your constant.
(24:03):
And what'swhat's your internal relationship
with you and your attachmentwith your self.
Right.
That's another part of this workthat we could go on, you know, into,
of like at the end of the day,like that's who you walk the journey with.
We just get that honor to,to be a part of that.
Right.
And to give it education because like,I know you and I both believe
(24:26):
like knowledge is power, right?
If I understand what's going on with me,even that creates like this level up.
Right?
But it comes with, with, from within
and going I have shame,I have trauma, most people do.
Everybody has shame.
You, me,the healthiest person in the world, right?
It's how do I manage it?
How much do I shove it downand not talk about it?
(24:48):
Right.
And part of that linksto what you talked about with control.
You know, what I can control within meand what safety looks like with me.
I cannot controlas much as I really want to.
If I'm seeking outside of me. Yeah, right.
Whether it's location of person,what have you.
And so it's that's part of the work.
It's like this safety within me. Yeah.
(25:10):
And and sometimes because the traumahas maybe happened within my body,
my body doesn't feel safe, you know.
So that's part of the work to finding safeparts.
Yeah. Within my system.
Yeah. Yeah.It's like icing versus cake, right?
It's like the icingis your support system, right?
(25:30):
And your environment and your,you know, coping skills
and your workout routinelike that is great.
And we promotethat and teach those skills.
Right. But it's it's icing. Right.
The cake is is youthe cake is and I sleep at night.
Right. The cake is, you know.
No every time do I avoid mirrorsbecause they literally hit every part
(25:52):
of how I look.
Right.
Is nine hours or showers basic hygiene.
Right. Food. You know,
being able to have, you know, we, we,we in relationships.
Right. And be present in friendships,
creates this like just coming in a fact.
You know, I always dothis, like, body language thing, right?
(26:13):
It justit makes you feel so small, and you just
you feel like I'm not present,and and that starts here, right?
You've got to, like, workon, you know, this relationship
with you as informedby what we've been through.
And then we get to capitalizeon all of those.
All the icing.
Right. That's what makes it pretty.
That's what makes it, you know.
(26:34):
But you're the cake at the end of the day.
Yeah.
And this piece of wood when you drawand that can feel safe.
Like it's like no one can hurt meif I isolate.
I don't have to get activated.
Yeah, right.
And so it's reallyI can draw towards that.
Right.
Because then I know I'mnot going to have all of these factors.
(26:54):
Right.
But is that a life worth living if I endin 18 hours and that it's I can't leave.
Right, right. As a. Sustainable.
Exactly. Quality.
And sustainability. Yeah.
Yeah I, I think so often
you know I think the illusion of safety.
Right.
Because when I isolate am I actually safe.
(27:17):
It's like defining that you know it'sreally getting real with these like pieces
thought of likeyeah I'm, I'm by myself in my bed
and that feels safe. Right.
But like if DBT has taught us anythinglike feelings aren't facts, right.
The fact of the matter, it's
like we're cutting off our basic humanneed of life, connection and belonging.
(27:38):
Right?
And when we cut ourselves off at the kneesand we don't meet our own needs for us,
how can anybody mean itif I can't even reach you?
Because you barricaded yourself behind
this wall, literally in your houseor in your bed, right?
And nobody can access you, you know?
So it's like,how do I remove this barrier?
How do I move through this, like fearand uncomfortability and go, I've never
(28:02):
I've never seen anybody die of healing,you know what I mean?
I've never feels like.
It feels like it'sso uncomfortable. Right?
But in all of our experience, you know,nobody has ever died
from Uncomfortability. Right?
The sky has never fallenfrom being uncomfortable.
It just sucks. It really sucks.
You know,we talk about very transparently,
(28:24):
like treatmentis the hardest thing you'll ever do,
No matter what.
You're doing it right.
And as it should be, you know what I mean?
And that's something we come backon, is like, I'm.
I'm going to show up for you,
and I'm going to create this spacewhere you can be so uncomfortable.
And now you get this experienceof, like, I'm so proud of you.
And you're like, I feel like shit.
(28:45):
And I'm like. I'm.
So proud of you.
Like, that's how it should feel, right?
In a world.
Because I'm sitting in a I'm not avoiding,not pushing down.
This is what your body has needed forso young.
Yeah.
And you're allowing to connectwith it, right?
Yeah.
And there's this other piece, right as,
(29:07):
like.
I was at I want to say it.
So it's
it's there.
I'm going to go there.
It's it's this. Am I worth it? Yeah.
Because there are timeswhen I don't feel worthy.
Yeah.
Or when I don't feel worthy,then I'm not going to reach out.
(29:28):
And if I don't reach out, it's.
It's when others aren't calling me.
I don't matter.
Where do I even live? Yeah.
That is somethingthat is such a core belief of people.
So how do we address this worthiness.
Yeah. With suicidal thoughts. Totally.
Because it we,we make it make sense in our head.
(29:52):
We make that connection in our Godthat is so distorted.
Totally.But we can't see it when we're in it.
Yeah. Right.
It is so valid in our headbecause I'm not worthy.
I'm not connected with anyone.
Maybe no one is showing up in my liferight now.
Yeah, right.
And so yeah, I,I don't see another way out.
(30:13):
Yeah.
And so I, my brain is telling me
instead of sitting with this pain and.
Yeah. Yeah. So what do I do with that.
Yeah.
I say we're constantly looking forthe thing that aligns with where we're at.
Totally.
And so it's, it's
what is aligning right.
(30:35):
It's what's the,the core belief of being worthless
and undeserving and brokenand messed up to the point of no repair.
It's this really warped reality
that to end it, which goes againsteverything that biology says
humans should do, like we're wired to, toto put one foot in front of the other.
(30:56):
Right.
But that starts warping itselfto going, well, that feels safer, right?
That that's that's the end to the pain.
Right?
And as evidenced by nobody,I was reaching out.
Right.
Or I don't have anybodyor I got fired from my job
and I got a divorce and I lost my kids or,you know, whatever
(31:19):
it is, we take all of these piecesand we make it make sense, right?
It's. So again, we can do this work.
I call it like playing whac-a-mole,
right of,like, stop drinking and stop doing this.
And then this relationshipand put your okay,
you know, we can play whac-a-moleand we never get at the core issue,
(31:40):
you know, and the core issue is likethe beliefs that I have about myself,
the trauma that I have unprocessedand the shame button, you know.
And so I've got to do thatlike into outwork
rather than like
if I just change all of this,like I'll just feel better about myself
because again, we have this predispositionto like, warp it
(32:01):
so that it's more palatableand it's more manageable.
Right.
And so it'show do you change a core belief system?
It's like you got to look for differentevidence, right?
It's you've got to go, you know, okay,all of this is true and valid, right?
I have significant loss.
I had ruptures in relationships.
I did awful things.
(32:23):
Maybe in the throes of my addictionand struggle.
And at the same time,can I control how I repair that?
Right. That's that.
I at the end of the day,
when I reached out for helpand I made that call for a therapist,
for treatment, for whatever it is, likesomebody was on the other line, right?
That every day.
Right. We show up early.
(32:44):
It doesn't matter. Doesn't matterhow loud somebody is.
It doesn't matter what they're strugglinglike. Does it matter that our.
No. Quite literally,quite literally at that three.
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
So it's it's I,I'm going to show you different evidence
because that's my heart and my passionand I believe in it.
Right. Change your belief system.
(33:05):
We've got to showan alternative way of believing.
You've got to literally give the brainin the body new information,
because the brain in the bodyhas to do something with information.
That is how we work,right? Neurologically.
It's that
when we are providing new information,our brain will take it and it will go,
right.
And so just maybe.
(33:25):
Yeah, just.
If that's awesome brain showing up.
Right.
Or just maybe with this new evidence.Yeah.
Or if I got a group today.
Right. Or if I called my therapist. Right.
Or if I called that friend that I saidwas never going to answer my call.
Like I wrote it off. Right.
If I move, you know,I kind of talk about like if I move
past that point of resistanceright at that point and we.
(33:47):
Assumptionor a belief or whatever that is.
Yeah, right.
And what if I just gota different experience, right.
Because your brain will do the restof the work, which is to take it in
is to create a new neuro pathway,is to literally fire a neuron differently.
Yeah, right.And that's how healing happens.
(34:07):
It's this, you know, tapestry of like,you know,
a stitch and a weave and a color.
And I broke it.
And then I put a new one in,and then I ran on a thread
and then I gave it more like.
And that'swhat creates healing and totality, right?
It's not just going,
well, if everybody else just said this,then I would be okay.
Right?
(34:27):
It can't be that,you know, contingency piece.
Right.
And that can start in something different.
Like we talk about that all the time.
I feel like it's got to belike the therapist slogan at this.
Point, trying to get me.
Totally right of like, did I wake upevery day and do something different?
Right.
Because I have this like, predispositionto do a certain amount of things
(34:50):
because that's what my trauma told me,because that's how I was raised.
Right?
Because that's literallyall I've ever known. Right?
And so sometimes the step of that isI made the call
when I, when I went to treatment,when I really didn't want to.
Right.
I opened up when I am the closerand shut it down.
Right.
Like, did I do something differentto the belief system?
(35:15):
Right.
And your belief system changesyour sense of self and that is your armor.
When it comes to trauma.
So so good. Yeah.
Thank you so much for your time.Thank you.
This conversation I hope thata lot of healing comes from this.
I. Hope you learned something.
(35:35):
Yes, absolutely. That's my biggest thing.
I hope everybody that listens,it's like that one piece.
I hope you took away something.
And I can do this with you every day.
All day, all day, every day.
Okay. See you next time. Raise.
In order to even start doing the work,you've got to come
to some sort of landing with the strugglethat is trauma.
Because we can talk about itand write about it.
And if we continue to hit our own shame
button, that it's even existing in usand around us to begin with.
That's another barrier, right?
And we risk like flooding ourselves.Right?
(00:21):
Not being in the best positionto even start doing that work.
A truth about healing.
Before we can move forward,we must first face what holds us back.
This is Beyond the Window, a podcastfrom La Ventana Treatment programs,
where we explore the unseen struggles andtransformative possibilities of recovery.
In this episode, clinical directorsBryce Colvard and Jennifer
(00:43):
Enriquez trace the tangled relationshipbetween trauma and shame
and how compassion can become the bridgeto the other side.
Here's their conversation.
Welcome to Beyond the Window.
I'm Jennifer Enriquez, I'ma licensed marriage and family therapist
and clinical director at La Ventana.
And I'm Bryce Colvard, also a licensed
(01:04):
marriage and family therapist and alsoclinical director at La Ventana
So great.
Loved working with you these past years.
And it's something that we've both beenso passionate about is talking about
shame and trauma and how that can bethis barrier and treatment.
And so today, what we decidedto talk about on our podcast
(01:26):
is how on the other side of shameis healing.
Yeah.
So our first question is for ECE, ECE,ECE Upar BB ups.
What is shame look like? Yeah.
So I have this huge passion
for shame because it's not a diagnosis.
It's not a population.
It's it's own presenting thing.
(01:48):
And it's the thing that embeds itselfinside of humans from every walk of life,
from every background, from every age,from every from every everything.
And so shame more kind of simply definedis the belief system of being that.
Right.
It's like,
the difference between guilt and shameas guilt as I feel bad, shame as I am bad.
(02:10):
It's that integral belief system that I,because of who I am, where I come from,
what I've experienced in my lifeinherently makes me bad.
And wrong and flawed and not worthy.
And that embeds itself into your psyche,
you know, profoundly,and then comes out in addiction
(02:32):
and mental healthand within that becomes this like, well,
if I believe that I'm bad, then how am Igoing to convince myself that I need help,
that I'm, like, deserving of help?
Yeah, this is like huge.
We frequently talk about like,these barriers of treatment. Yeah.
And I don't think shame is talked aboutenough as it's like barrier treatment.
Yeah for sure.
(02:53):
And so what can we encouragesomeone that maybe is exploring.
Maybe they're watching this podcastright now exploring like these
first steps into like getting help
and what that could look like becauseit can seem like this huge monster, right?
This huge mountain in front of me.And I'm so terrified.
And I've got maybe these huge, you know,fears about what it could look like.
(03:16):
And I've got all of these,you know, misconceptions.
So when, when I'm on that side of healing,
what can be this first thing that I canmaybe start to tell myself, yeah.
Before I get that professional help.
Yeah, that could help me kind of go, okay.
Or just maybe, just maybe I can. Yeah.
Take that first step through that door.Yeah.
(03:37):
I mean, as, I think as, as clichesit sounds are, as you know,
people often say like the first stepis like admitting I have a problem, right?
It's it's the first step is going like,I'm I'm not okay.
Right.
My, my life is falling apart ormy emotions are out of, you know, my grasp
right now or something happened to meand I'm not okay with it.
(04:00):
I'm not feeling well.
I'm not like however somebodywants to phrase it, it's it's having that.
I think vulnerable moment with yourselfto go like I'm not okay
because that combatsyou're an internalized shame
that you have of like,do I just pretend like everything's not?
Do I just keep it together?
Because if that's where we're starting outwith,
(04:21):
then yeah, reaching out to somebody else,involving anybody else
or another system in the equationis insurmountable at that point.
Right.
So it's startingwith like looking in the mirror
and like having this conversation of like,I'm not okay.
And I, I, I don't know what to do.
And moving through that fear in a waythat's, that's going to allow you to go.
(04:42):
I need help.
And that help is somewhereoutside of myself, even if you don't know.
You know,we now talk about the the hardest thing.
Sometimes you just pick up the phone.You don't know the answer.
You don't knowwhat it's going to look like.
There's so many unknownsand like that's scary.
But if the first thing you do is like,pick up the phone and go, I don't know.
(05:03):
I don't know what, I don't know what I, meand I don't know where I'm going.
I don't know howthis is going to look. Right.
But I'm not okay.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, something that hit meis when you're talking,
I think we don't even have to have, like,a severe mental health lecture.
I love what you talked about.
Like, it's not this disorder, right?
Like shame is not somethingyou give a mad to, right?
(05:25):
It's not a diagnosis. No.
It's something that everyone can have.
And when you talked about this piece of,like sharing it.
Yeah. And and picking up the phone. Yeah.
It's like all right.
Like my shame gets touchedwhen it's like this
picture of like, I, I'm not like this.
Perfect. Right.
(05:45):
It's like I have this idea of like I'mthis strong single mom.
I'm this badass clinical director.
I've got it all together.
I don't
have this, whatever it might be.
And Iand and it takes even as a clinician.
We always joke when you say therapist metherapist doctor who needs doctors.
(06:08):
Right. Yeah.
And so even as a therapistwe need to be able to say
like I need to reach out and saylike I can't do this alone.
Yeah.
Because we don't heal in in ones. Right.
We heal in community,whether that's within the 12 steps.
Right?
Whether that's within treatment,whether that's within your family system.
(06:29):
It takes that community piece. Yeah.
So part of that takes that vulnerability.
The heart of that takes this piece of it's
okay to be truly seen.
And it's not can to be perfect.
Yeah.
And it's got to be a little messy. Yeah.
And I think that's this partthat some will relate to.
(06:54):
And like I know I relate withthat is like absolutely same.
Right.
Like my best friend's like my best friendbecause she's in the trenches with me.
Right.
She's seen the ugliest parts of whatevermy life has shown up with.
Right. And so that's my person.
That's who I go to.
I always fix my mom,my dad, my brother, whoever. Yeah.
And so so I have that because I've,
(07:16):
I've allowed myselfto show those other parts.
Yeah.
It's a human connection thing. Absolutely.
But then you look on my social media
and it's the Facebook highlight reel.
Right.
And it looks likeshe does no wrong for right.
And so I think there's likethis misconception and we hold on
(07:37):
so tightly to the Facebook InstagramTikTok highlight reel of my life.
Yeah. Of how we want to present.
Yeah that it separates usand it becomes this gap
between my shame will allow meto really let her myself.
Right.
And all we really need to take pause.
(07:59):
Yeah.
And gohow how do I find this balance in between?
Am I gonna let this image, this ego.
Which is also rooted in shame.
The ego. Right. Roy how do I protect that.
That's next I. Talk.
Am I going to allow myselfto let that out way.
Yeah.
Me getting this connection and healing.
(08:20):
And and need that. Right.
Because it's like the need of,
of support the need of a woundsI have a trauma
I have a symptom, I have,
you know,something is happening inside of me
that has nothing to do with my success,has nothing to do with
(08:42):
who I am in the world,whether it's my roles or my vocation.
It's simplybecause I'm human, right? Right.
And so often we'll see in treatmentlike that is the barrier right of of okay,
I've gotten myself hereand yet even still,
the shame comes upand gets in our own way of like
putting one foot in front of the otheror staying in treatment.
(09:05):
Right?
So it shows up in every aspect
of human connection, of seeking help of
relationships, of childhood, of dealingwith past, of dealing with the present.
Like it's it's so profoundand yet we don't talk about it.
Right.
It's like the silentkiller, literally sometimes.
Literally.
Yeah.
(09:25):
Yeah, yeah.
What does a for someone that
can look at okay maybe,maybe I've got the hook.
Maybe. Okay.
I recognizemy life is becoming unmanageable.
I'm not functioning.
(09:46):
I do need more support at whateverlevel of care that may look like. I'm.
I know I've got this trauma.
Yeah.
Whether it happened six months ago
or four decades ago.
What is initial trauma workeven look like.
Yeah.
Because I think there'slike a lot of misconceptions.
(10:08):
We hear them so frequently.
Yeah.
So what does that look like.
So we can take athe stigma out of it. Yeah.
And be the fear out of itto really normalize and create this safe
transition into what it could look likeso people can feel safe
addressing some of that traumathat hasn't been touched.
(10:30):
Yeah, I think and it's it's always both.
Right.
We always talk about like you,they go hand in hand. Right.
You can't talk about traumawithout talking about shame.
You usually can't talk about shamewithout talking about trauma. Right.
So it's this it's this duality in it,and it's the fact that
trauma in and of itselfhas so many misconceptions
and some so much, you know, stigma around
(10:53):
what I should have been able to handle.
Right?
Because initial trauma workis, is one going,
I radically accept that trauma is a partof the human experience sometimes.
Right.
That I that I am not,that no one person is like
absolved of a traumatic experienceor slate.
(11:14):
Right? Yeah.
It's not to happen or not to it'sit's it's kind of everything.
Right.
So it's first understandinglike what the definition of trauma is.
Trauma is an abundance of stressfor one specific person.
And my level of stress is very different
than your level of stressis very different than somebody else's.
So it's my sister, response
(11:35):
to an abundance of stress,to the point of not
being able to function or to the pointof having certain things show up for me,
that is a reflection of my experience
or the internalization of my experience.
And so often people go,if I can just put as much space
between me and my trauma,then I'll just like, be all right.
(11:56):
Because time heals all wounds. Right?
But it doesn't it.
Doesn't know this. Yeah.
This is the one. Like,you can make the case for some things.
Maybe, but like that I think that's onelike radical misconception.
Right. And it's it's an avoidance tactic.
And it makes sense because if you can sayjust give it time, just give it time.
(12:17):
It gives that sense of like control.
When I lost it in my trauma,right in my childhood, in
my relationship, in my DV,in my addiction, like whatever it was.
Right.
So I think the first thing is going,what am I working with?
Can I accept that trauma is a humanexperience sometimes is my fault, right.
(12:39):
Because I think in order to even startfor a a a a a a a a a a, you've
got to come to some sort of landingwith the struggle that is trauma,
because we can talk about itright about it.
And if,if we continue to hit our own shame button
that it's even existing in usand around us to begin with,
that's another barrier, right?
(12:59):
And we risk like flooding ourselves.Right?
Not being in the best positionto even start doing that work.
Right.
You know,
and I think another big misconceptionis like, well, if I just talk about it
once and I can just do that and say,you know, okay, this, this happened to me,
then I can just put that in a box.
(13:21):
And that box lives in my life and,and that's and that's that.
Yeah.
And the thing about correctingthat is that trauma work is integration.
It's to literally integrate that.
The story is a part of your story, right?
That this experience issomething that you know, is
(13:41):
a part of you in many ways, or that,you know, is a part of your past,
and you've got to learn to be around itand with it and understand
it and manage itand integrate it into your human existence
in order to find healing in general.
Yeah.
And it's it's something that it's not, youknow, we really want it to be this easy.
(14:01):
It's at times, right.
If I, if I talk about itand I'm healed and eight.
Weeks of residential it, I can just do it.
Amazing. Right.
I love time for you.
Right. 30 days, two weeks. Right.
But the trauma is within ourit is within our body.
Right.
And so it's learning to listento what our body is telling us.
(14:25):
Right.
Whether it's through my poor sleep,my anxiety, my flashbacks.
Like we can go on and on and onabout what trauma can look like
and how it can come about.
We frequently talk about how it comes outsideways, right
through your ability, through it, throughwhat have you.
And so it's how do I manage those pieces?
It's not just the story of what happened,it's how is it impacting me now?
(14:49):
How am I managing it now? Right.
So it doesn't keep me in this cyclegoing forward.
Yeah. Yeah yeah.
And like perpetuatingthis maladaptive piece
we ally ECE ECE ECE ece to ECE, ECE, ECE,we've come to a head right.
We've been doing whatever we've been doingand sometimes they're really effective.
(15:09):
So. Right.
It's like numbingis really, really effective.
And shoving it downand distracting and using and you know,
sleeping too much or too littleor being really perfect and just like,
oh, if I just keep it all together, like,those are brilliant strategies.
Those are, you know, and, and and and not
long lasting and not sustainable.
(15:30):
Right.
And that's huge. Right.
Is is it sustainable.
It's keeping me I am I am a workaholic.
Yeah.
So I'm thriving in this part of my life.
Right. And I'm stuffing it down. Yeah.
Until I'm startingto have uncontrollable flashbacks,
until I'm starting to have panic attacksin my work room and bathroom.
(15:53):
Rightuntil it starts to be where my alcoholism
is now, floodinginto where it's not just functional.
Yeah, right.
And so it becomes this thing of it worksuntil it doesn't.
Right.
And so that's where it becomes okayI need this professional help
to where we startlooking at instead of maladaptive.
How do we get to this placeof like healthy coping skills.
(16:16):
Yeah. Right.
Yeah.
And so that's a lot of the workthat we do in residential.
Right.
This 24 hour care pieceis like getting this foundation under you
to be able to manage it, to be ableto have this life, to be able to.
Yeah.
Get it,move it to where it's not as impacting.
Overwhelming. Yeah. Right. All consuming.
(16:37):
Yeah yeah yeah I think so often it's it's
what where I likeI think of the word like adapt right.
It's like you know we have that capacityto go through really hard things.
I always talk about like, you know, being,
kind ofphysiological and like, neurological,
(16:58):
you know, feeling that I am, you know,I have this, like, fascination
and this all of just,you know, the way that the human brain
and and our physical touchcan adapt to adversity, right?
We're not we're not supposed to do these,you know, really high level, very,
you know, succinct,you know, ways of coping
(17:20):
at the most extreme, at the most intense,like forever.
Right, right.
And this idea that I can radically acceptthat, like, I, I can have something
happen to me, sol apartand become a stronger version of myself.
Like, is adapting rightthat I that humans have that capacity.
So I will talk about in you know, theterms of trauma work and and shame work.
(17:46):
Right.
It's it's when I struggle to find the hopelike within myself.
Like I've got to look for itoutside of myself.
Right.
I've got to go that like,I know this is possible because science.
Right?I know this is possible because it's fact.
I'm in a place where I don't believe it,
because my shame tells methat I am awful and undeserving,
and the worst of the worstbecause of what happened to me.
(18:09):
And so, you know, I'll talk about,like with our clients, like I'll hold
the hope, right?
You're not ready to take it because youdon't feel like you're deserving of it.
Right?
So I'm going to hold it for youin my area of expertise
and knowing that it's possible,and walking this journey with
so many clientsbefore you and seeing the work
and practicing what I preach,because I believe in it, right of like
(18:31):
when you're ready to take off, when you'reready to go, I'm going to shift
that belief system of like my,my trauma means that I'm broken.
It goes numb.
My trauma happenedand it was hard and painful.
And the worst thingthat I've ever experienced.
And I can be resilient.
Yeah, right. And I can be vulnerable.
And I can have healing from that
(18:54):
because I am not inherently broken.
So I can ask for help.
I think one of the
honors of like doing this workis this quote
that came up just a few days ago,which I thought was so sad.
And it is is this nerve shame dies when,
(19:18):
oh my gosh,I'm going to get the exact quote
because I don't want to mess it up.
But it's shame dieswhen stories are told in safe places.
Yeah,
and for so many different
people, safety can be skewed.
So it's findingwhat a safety look like for me
(19:38):
and what is such an honoras being in this field where we get to be
sometimes someone's only safe placewhere they've quite literally never told.
Yeah, or felt comfortable,telling this story.
And it truly istold in a place where it is no judgment.
Yeah. Where it's not
(20:00):
shocking.
Where it's, it's something that is seenthat is supported.
We talk about this shield by shieldright alongside of you that it's.
Army of. Support. Absolutely.
On on multiple different levels. Right.
And so it's there'sthis, there's 0000000000 power in that.
And I think that's what's so specialabout these programs that we have
(20:24):
is that we see day in dayto day, these clients that have these
transformative experiences from coming in
at quite literally their lowest point,
their most shame riddled points.
Yeah. To
I'm gonna allow yeah.
(20:44):
Some vulnerability. Yeah.
And it's metwith that therapist in the room.
And and this shame starts to dieand this healing starts to come.
And I always talk about thissort of three week
chuckle right around this three weekswe see this.
If they are smile for the first timeand it's this guest.
(21:07):
Yeah. That like that's our job.
That's our career. Like whatwhat an. Honor.
In gift and honorto be a part of that. Yeah.
And and to create that space.
Yeah.
Of I'm sometimes it's I'mjust holding space for you.
I'm not. We can't change what happened.
I'm not fixing. I'm not fixing.
(21:29):
Yeah, because you're not broken,
right?
Like it?
I'm not here to fix you.
Right? I'm here to hold space for you.
I'm here to walk with you.I'm here to show up for you.
But if you need that, fixingthat would have reinforced the belief
that you're broken.
You have broken. Absolutely.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's, you know, we
(21:51):
the the the core crux of trauma workis like seeking safety, right?
You can't talk about itif you're not safe.
Right.
And when you talk about really nicheand specialized trauma treatment right.
Done. Right.
It's can you cope.
Can you do you have a toolbox? Right.
Are you in a safe environment right.
Before we even get to what happened?
It's like recognizing of do I doI know what's safe?
(22:14):
Have I ever experienced and do I needcorrective experiences with that first?
Right.
Because even as you know, traumainformed care
and and that's a big buzzwordin the field, right.
Like the trauma specialist. Right.
And trauma informedbecause it feels like that's saving grace.
Right. Like that's the lightat the end of the tunnel. Right.
(22:34):
And so I'm in the throesand I don't know anything about the field.
Like, of course I'm going to goyeah I have a saying.
And you've got this thing and,and I'm, I'm going to connect with that.
Right.
But so often it's, it's,it comes from within.
It's that you've got to have this inwardand outward
safety piece of,can you feel safe in your own body?
Are you safe in your environment?
(22:56):
Can you seek outsafety in an unsafe world?
Right.
Because if we can't do thatand then we start opening up
wounds, you'rejust running around bleeding, right?
And so it'show do I learn how to patch myself up?
Because, you know, one thing I always talkabout is like my wellness
cannot be contingenton the actions of others.
(23:19):
And again. My wellness
cannot be
contingent on the actions of others.
I can't be well, when somebody gives methe apology, I can't be well.
When somebody fixes me, I can't be well.
When I get enough money, right,or I stop doing these things
that my wellness has to be my own.
(23:41):
We cannot have contingencies and health
and wellness and healingbecause then it's this.
It's this almost illusion of safety,right?
It's this almost like very temporary.Again.
Is it sustainable?
Right.
Is this person, is this thing,is this whatever going to be my concern?
Because at the end of the day,it's it's the person
staring back at you in the mirror.That's your constant.
(24:03):
And what'swhat's your internal relationship
with you and your attachmentwith your self.
Right.
That's another part of this workthat we could go on, you know, into,
of like at the end of the day,like that's who you walk the journey with.
We just get that honor to,to be a part of that.
Right.
And to give it education because like,I know you and I both believe
(24:26):
like knowledge is power, right?
If I understand what's going on with me,even that creates like this level up.
Right?
But it comes with, with, from within
and going I have shame,I have trauma, most people do.
Everybody has shame.
You, me,the healthiest person in the world, right?
It's how do I manage it?
How much do I shove it downand not talk about it?
(24:48):
Right.
And part of that linksto what you talked about with control.
You know, what I can control within meand what safety looks like with me.
I cannot controlas much as I really want to.
If I'm seeking outside of me. Yeah, right.
Whether it's location of person,what have you.
And so it's that's part of the work.
It's like this safety within me. Yeah.
(25:10):
And and sometimes because the traumahas maybe happened within my body,
my body doesn't feel safe, you know.
So that's part of the work to finding safeparts.
Yeah. Within my system.
Yeah. Yeah.It's like icing versus cake, right?
It's like the icingis your support system, right?
(25:30):
And your environment and your,you know, coping skills
and your workout routinelike that is great.
And we promotethat and teach those skills.
Right. But it's it's icing. Right.
The cake is is youthe cake is and I sleep at night.
Right. The cake is, you know.
No every time do I avoid mirrorsbecause they literally hit every part
(25:52):
of how I look.
Right.
Is nine hours or showers basic hygiene.
Right. Food. You know,
being able to have, you know, we, we,we in relationships.
Right. And be present in friendships,
creates this like just coming in a fact.
You know, I always dothis, like, body language thing, right?
(26:13):
It justit makes you feel so small, and you just
you feel like I'm not present,and and that starts here, right?
You've got to, like, workon, you know, this relationship
with you as informedby what we've been through.
And then we get to capitalizeon all of those.
All the icing.
Right. That's what makes it pretty.
That's what makes it, you know.
(26:34):
But you're the cake at the end of the day.
Yeah.
And this piece of wood when you drawand that can feel safe.
Like it's like no one can hurt meif I isolate.
I don't have to get activated.
Yeah, right.
And so it's reallyI can draw towards that.
Right.
Because then I know I'mnot going to have all of these factors.
(26:54):
Right.
But is that a life worth living if I endin 18 hours and that it's I can't leave.
Right, right. As a. Sustainable.
Exactly. Quality.
And sustainability. Yeah.
Yeah I, I think so often
you know I think the illusion of safety.
Right.
Because when I isolate am I actually safe.
(27:17):
It's like defining that you know it'sreally getting real with these like pieces
thought of likeyeah I'm, I'm by myself in my bed
and that feels safe. Right.
But like if DBT has taught us anythinglike feelings aren't facts, right.
The fact of the matter, it's
like we're cutting off our basic humanneed of life, connection and belonging.
(27:38):
Right?
And when we cut ourselves off at the kneesand we don't meet our own needs for us,
how can anybody mean itif I can't even reach you?
Because you barricaded yourself behind
this wall, literally in your houseor in your bed, right?
And nobody can access you, you know?
So it's like,how do I remove this barrier?
How do I move through this, like fearand uncomfortability and go, I've never
(28:02):
I've never seen anybody die of healing,you know what I mean?
I've never feels like.
It feels like it'sso uncomfortable. Right?
But in all of our experience, you know,nobody has ever died
from Uncomfortability. Right?
The sky has never fallenfrom being uncomfortable.
It just sucks. It really sucks.
You know,we talk about very transparently,
(28:24):
like treatmentis the hardest thing you'll ever do,
No matter what.
You're doing it right.
And as it should be, you know what I mean?
And that's something we come backon, is like, I'm.
I'm going to show up for you,
and I'm going to create this spacewhere you can be so uncomfortable.
And now you get this experienceof, like, I'm so proud of you.
And you're like, I feel like shit.
(28:45):
And I'm like. I'm.
So proud of you.
Like, that's how it should feel, right?
In a world.
Because I'm sitting in a I'm not avoiding,not pushing down.
This is what your body has needed forso young.
Yeah.
And you're allowing to connectwith it, right?
Yeah.
And there's this other piece, right as,
(29:07):
like.
I was at I want to say it.
So it's
it's there.
I'm going to go there.
It's it's this. Am I worth it? Yeah.
Because there are timeswhen I don't feel worthy.
Yeah.
Or when I don't feel worthy,then I'm not going to reach out.
(29:28):
And if I don't reach out, it's.
It's when others aren't calling me.
I don't matter.
Where do I even live? Yeah.
That is somethingthat is such a core belief of people.
So how do we address this worthiness.
Yeah. With suicidal thoughts. Totally.
Because it we,we make it make sense in our head.
(29:52):
We make that connection in our Godthat is so distorted.
Totally.But we can't see it when we're in it.
Yeah. Right.
It is so valid in our headbecause I'm not worthy.
I'm not connected with anyone.
Maybe no one is showing up in my liferight now.
Yeah, right.
And so yeah, I,I don't see another way out.
(30:13):
Yeah.
And so I, my brain is telling me
instead of sitting with this pain and.
Yeah. Yeah. So what do I do with that.
Yeah.
I say we're constantly looking forthe thing that aligns with where we're at.
Totally.
And so it's, it's
what is aligning right.
(30:35):
It's what's the,the core belief of being worthless
and undeserving and brokenand messed up to the point of no repair.
It's this really warped reality
that to end it, which goes againsteverything that biology says
humans should do, like we're wired to, toto put one foot in front of the other.
(30:56):
Right.
But that starts warping itselfto going, well, that feels safer, right?
That that's that's the end to the pain.
Right?
And as evidenced by nobody,I was reaching out.
Right.
Or I don't have anybodyor I got fired from my job
and I got a divorce and I lost my kids or,you know, whatever
(31:19):
it is, we take all of these piecesand we make it make sense, right?
It's. So again, we can do this work.
I call it like playing whac-a-mole,
right of,like, stop drinking and stop doing this.
And then this relationshipand put your okay,
you know, we can play whac-a-moleand we never get at the core issue,
(31:40):
you know, and the core issue is likethe beliefs that I have about myself,
the trauma that I have unprocessedand the shame button, you know.
And so I've got to do thatlike into outwork
rather than like
if I just change all of this,like I'll just feel better about myself
because again, we have this predispositionto like, warp it
(32:01):
so that it's more palatableand it's more manageable.
Right.
And so it'show do you change a core belief system?
It's like you got to look for differentevidence, right?
It's you've got to go, you know, okay,all of this is true and valid, right?
I have significant loss.
I had ruptures in relationships.
I did awful things.
(32:23):
Maybe in the throes of my addictionand struggle.
And at the same time,can I control how I repair that?
Right. That's that.
I at the end of the day,
when I reached out for helpand I made that call for a therapist,
for treatment, for whatever it is, likesomebody was on the other line, right?
That every day.
Right. We show up early.
(32:44):
It doesn't matter. Doesn't matterhow loud somebody is.
It doesn't matter what they're strugglinglike. Does it matter that our.
No. Quite literally,quite literally at that three.
Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
So it's it's I,I'm going to show you different evidence
because that's my heart and my passionand I believe in it.
Right. Change your belief system.
(33:05):
We've got to showan alternative way of believing.
You've got to literally give the brainin the body new information,
because the brain in the bodyhas to do something with information.
That is how we work,right? Neurologically.
It's that
when we are providing new information,our brain will take it and it will go,
right.
And so just maybe.
(33:25):
Yeah, just.
If that's awesome brain showing up.
Right.
Or just maybe with this new evidence.Yeah.
Or if I got a group today.
Right. Or if I called my therapist. Right.
Or if I called that friend that I saidwas never going to answer my call.
Like I wrote it off. Right.
If I move, you know,I kind of talk about like if I move
past that point of resistanceright at that point and we.
(33:47):
Assumptionor a belief or whatever that is.
Yeah, right.
And what if I just gota different experience, right.
Because your brain will do the restof the work, which is to take it in
is to create a new neuro pathway,is to literally fire a neuron differently.
Yeah, right.And that's how healing happens.
(34:07):
It's this, you know, tapestry of like,you know,
a stitch and a weave and a color.
And I broke it.
And then I put a new one in,and then I ran on a thread
and then I gave it more like.
And that'swhat creates healing and totality, right?
It's not just going,
well, if everybody else just said this,then I would be okay.
Right?
(34:27):
It can't be that,you know, contingency piece.
Right.
And that can start in something different.
Like we talk about that all the time.
I feel like it's got to belike the therapist slogan at this.
Point, trying to get me.
Totally right of like, did I wake upevery day and do something different?
Right.
Because I have this like, predispositionto do a certain amount of things
(34:50):
because that's what my trauma told me,because that's how I was raised.
Right?
Because that's literallyall I've ever known. Right?
And so sometimes the step of that isI made the call
when I, when I went to treatment,when I really didn't want to.
Right.
I opened up when I am the closerand shut it down.
Right.
Like, did I do something differentto the belief system?
(35:15):
Right.
And your belief system changesyour sense of self and that is your armor.
When it comes to trauma.
So so good. Yeah.
Thank you so much for your time.Thank you.
This conversation I hope thata lot of healing comes from this.
I. Hope you learned something.
(35:35):
Yes, absolutely. That's my biggest thing.
I hope everybody that listens,it's like that one piece.
I hope you took away something.
And I can do this with you every day.
All day, all day, every day.
Okay. See you next time. Raise.
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