Call Me By My Name | A Testimony of Finding the True Jesus - Blood & Oil Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
In a time when faith can feel flat, distracted and
disengaged, the Blood and Oilpodcast cuts through the noise
to reveal the raw, unfilteredwork of the Holy Spirit.
Welcome to the Blood and Oilpodcast.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Hey beautiful people.
Zane, here I'm going to bemissing you this week.
I'm watching the kiddos whilemy amazing, illustrious,
beautiful wife is going to bejoining us to give her testimony
.
She has been such aninspiration to me on our walk
since we got saved two years agoand I'm just so excited for you
guys to hear her history just alittle bit, because she,

(00:45):
although a sinner, dons thoserobes of spiritual royalty in
such a magnificent way.
She is so devoted and boy doesshe have a story for you.
So anyway, enjoy, guys, andI'll see you next week.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Well, welcome to Blood and Oil podcast.
Good to see everyone, good tohave everyone with us.
So today we've got Noel Wheelerin house with us.
This is Zane's wife, and partof the goal today is to
interview Noel in the same waythat Zane got the opportunity to
share his testimony.
Know that Zane got theopportunity to share his

(01:23):
testimony, and one of thereasons why is one of the things
that's happening around here alot is we're making some inroads
with the New Age culture and,in particular, with the
targeting of the occult realmand that stuff that we're
looking to stomp into theenemy's camp and take back what

(01:44):
the devil stole, kind of thing,and and so you, you guys were
some of the first folks who cameto us from that zone and so, uh
, so that's, that's what ourgoal is here.
Uh, before we get started, Ijust wanted to talk a little bit
about the israel and iran thing.
Um, for those of you who whoare paying attention to
geopolitics and what's happeningin the earth, this is not Gog

(02:08):
and Magog at this point, andthat is for those who don't know
.
It's the battle in Ezekiel andmentioned again in Revelation 19
, which may or may not be thesame thing, though it's given
the same name, and this is notthat yet.
It is the precursor for thesethings, it is the setting up for
those kinds of things, it isthe drawing of trajectories that

(02:31):
will ultimately end and developin that kind of a scenario.
But if you refer back to lastweek's episode, we talked about
the rise of lawlessness, and thefirst point is systemic chaos
and wars and rumors of wars, andthat's what this is presently.
There will come a day where theGog and Magog war will coalesce

(02:53):
and become an actual thing, butit's not that yet.
We still have some time forpreaching the gospel.
We still have some time formaking sure that we're doing
what it is that Jesus hasassigned for us to do, and
that's what these things shoulddo for the Christian.
There should be no fear.
This should provoke a sense ofsobriety and a sense of

(03:15):
awareness of the lateness of thehour and, additionally, a sense
of urgency for doing what it isthat God has assigned you to do
and laying hold of what it isthat God has assigned you to do,
and and laying hold of what itis that God has as a purpose for
your life.
So, uh.
So I just wanted to address that, because it's kind of the the,
the thing elephant in the roompresently.
Um, before we get started, um,okay, so for for my friend and

(03:41):
my sister, um, I've, I've knownyou now two years.
You're going to have somethinglike that about two years, yeah,
and you guys got saved in avery glorious manner and we're
going to talk about some ofthose things today.
But you guys, you were trying acouple other churches but you
came to ours and you were likeno, this is, this has got the

(04:04):
spirit, this has got thesubstance, like this has got the
, the, the kingdom that we're,that we know is is Jesus.
And I spent a year and a halfwith you guys or something, yeah
, meeting with you and yourhusband regularly and many hours
and just such a glorious time.
You guys mean a lot to me.
So a little little plug for myfriends.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Well, thank you.
Thank you for having me andalso thank you for that
discipleship.
I strongly encourage anyone whois new on the path to find a
trustworthy man or woman of Godthat has been qualified not only
to teach but to hold theconversation when there is

(04:47):
confusion.
Or you know, coming from such adifferent past, it was really,
really critical to be receivedby someone that wasn't just
going to shun us for thequestions and there are a lot of
questions, as people are comingout of the darkness into the
light, you know there's a littlebit of a whiplash.
That can happen.
It's really important.

(05:08):
It was very important in ourwalk and I would encourage
others as well to just seek outthe person who's already
standing on a foundation ofChrist, who's already built
their life on that strongfoundation, and someone who
isn't going to become religiousin the Bible thumping to the
extent that they can't answerthe questions or still reach out

(05:29):
, you know.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yeah, or even just outright dismissive.
For those of you guys that arelistening, one of the problems I
think we've talked about thisbefore and the lament that
exists with folks who are comingout of that zone is they've got
a host of experiences that arereal, like something happened.
It's usually not what theythink it is and there's usually

(05:51):
layers to it and masks and thatstuff to it.
But the church tends to say, oh, they're super dismissive
because they don't have aframework for it, they don't
have the worldview, they don'thave the experience, they don't
you know those kinds of things.
And so to Noel's point you know, having having somebody who,

(06:12):
who can negotiate what is truespiritual substance and what
isn't, and those kinds of things, is hugely important and it's
just a such a joy for me.
And now we're we're looking atpossibly doing it again here
locally.
So, um, so amen and praisejesus um.
So why don't you?
Why don't you start with youknow the testimony of how he

(06:34):
rescued you?
Yes, you want me to start thereuh, yeah, you, you can start,
you can work.
Start, start in the moment,work your way back, start in the
history of how, how he wassearching for you and led you to
him.
I mean, just see what theSpirit does.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
I think it's important to mention that my
seeking started at a very youngage because I felt attacked by
demons, starting at a very youngage having nightmares, night
terrors, sleep paralysis, thingslike that, where now, looking
back, I can remember some ofthese nightmares from when I was

(07:13):
two, where the subject matterwas so dark and so violent that
I know I had no exposure to it.
So that was, you know.
It starts there around age two.
I can remember many dreams.
I don't remember all of them,but the very demonic or spirit

(07:33):
led, those really stayed, and soI think by a young age my
parents were seeking answers tohow to stop what seemed like a
demonic presence, as well as howto help me stand in the gifts
that they perceived I had,because there was a lot of
accurate premonition of, youknow, psychic ability, hearing

(07:57):
people's thoughts, just knowingalso, like geographic history, I
would have information thatwould come to me.
And so it was this two-sidedcoin of okay, we have a daughter
who's gifted in the spirit anda daughter who's being tormented
in the spirit, and I was raisedin a family that did not have

(08:17):
one singular ideology aroundspirituality or the Holy Spirit
or any of that.
You know I did hear things likeJesus was a good man and the
Bible has a lot of history andthere's a lot of parable there.
But we were also guided to theEgyptian daytime stories and you
know the Tao Te Ching and stufflike that.

(08:39):
So it started with mixture inthe seeking for answers and so I
think by like nine, 10, I wasbrought to my first shaman, you
know, and told oh, you havethese shamanic gifts that were
confirmed and and at that pointI wasn't really even considering

(09:00):
the discernment, no one wasreally considering the
discernment of truth, we werelost and anyone who could give a
roadmap was helpful.
So, you know, fast forward intomy own life.
I'd been picking up these toolsfor a long time of working with
psychics and, you know, callingon angels, calling on the
archangels, all of that, andthat was sort of a mainstay in

(09:24):
my life, this lightheartedseeking.
And then in my 20s I was in acommitted relationship that was
totally platonic and Iabsolutely agreed with the word
curses that the world would giveme of you need to sow your wild
oats before you settle down,you need to know what you like

(09:46):
before you pick your man, allthis garbage, and it was
actually a desire forpromiscuity, partnered with the
shame of doing something thatwas killing.
It was absolutely wreakinghavoc on my soul.
That's how I enteredalcoholismism was a desire for
this worldly knowledge of lustand a shame that I deeply loved

(10:14):
the person that I was sinningagainst and I couldn't face him.
And alcohol just married thatperfectly right.
I overcame my shame and did thething anyway.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Medicated.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Very heavy medication , which led me into an abusive
relationship that stole me fromthat really pretty good
relationship and in that abusiverelationship I fell deeply into
, I guess, like social ladder,climbing through con artistry

(10:47):
and deception and manipulation.
That's always.
My awareness of the motives ofother people's, their weaknesses
and how to manipulate them hasalways been inherent for me and
pretty easy.
So that was a skill set I wasdeveloping all the time.
By the time I was a boozer, youknow, I was gosh.
I remember there were a lot ofthings that I got away with and

(11:13):
I praise God that I was notpermanently handed over, because
that's what I deserve.
That's what I was.
You know, I was living in thatsoup and so it got to the point
where I was just gosh.
I had like three boyfriends.
I was conning all of the medicalmarijuana dispensaries in San

(11:33):
Francisco and LA because I justhad the kind of confidence that
no one would ask me to see if itwas medical or legal, and so I
was selling hash to a lot ofpeople, or legal.
And so I was selling hash to alot of people.
I mean, I was selling all kindsof things, mostly my soul, and
there was a day now.

(11:54):
You know I come from a family,great sister parents are
together, loved, each otherdearly by worldly standards,
really a great upbringing,really loving, solid family.
Just, I think the spiritualleadership was difficult.
You know my dad.
He used to say I'm a militantagnostic.
I don't know, and neither the Fto you.

(12:17):
That's that's, you know.
Hey, pops, thank you for thatyeah.
Which changed on his deathbed,by the way.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
That's a story for another.
That, yeah, which changed onhis deathbed, by the way, amen.
That's a story for another day,amen.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
And so, in the depths of my darkness, there was a day
when I was driving across theGolden Gate Bridge, or I was
driving toward the Golden GateBridge and just losing grip on
any sense of a reason to live.
I was devastated.
I was so self-loathing In allof this.
I hated devastated.
I was so self-loathing In allof this I hated myself.
I knew that I'm a good person,that I have a good heart, and I

(12:49):
just hated that I was constantlyI felt like a slave to my own
decisions, to my addiction, tomy habits, to that judgment of
man how I'm going to one-up.
It was a really dark time in mylife.
And, um, so there was a day whenI was planning to commit

(13:09):
suicide.
This was not my first attempt,but it was my first.
It would have been thesuccessful attempt and I know
that.
Um, where it was I believe itwas a Tuesday, it was like 10,
30 or 11 AM.
There was no one on the bridge.
I had a very fast car at thetime and I slowed way down at

(13:32):
the beginning of the Golden GateBridge I mean ugly crying to
the next, you know to the nthdegree, and the last thing I

(13:55):
know I yelled out.
I yelled out was God, I wishthere was something worth living
for, because I didn't actuallywant to kill myself.
Right yeah.
I wanted to end it and I wasvery sad that that was my only
option, because I knew thatthere's more to life and that I
wasn't getting it and that I was, I wasn't worthy of it and that

(14:15):
I didn't.
You know that death was thebest for someone as terrible as
I was, and there's some truth inthat there's a lot of truth
than that it's Jesus that hetook it, and so I.
You know I'm slowed way down.
I've gunned it now.
I got up to about 80 miles perhour toward the end of the

(14:38):
bridge and I remember thinkingit's the end of the bridge.
I'm screaming out.
I'm just.
I've got my hands gripped.
I'm ready to whip it.
That was my plan.
I'm going to go hard rightright off the edge.
And if I don't make it over theedge, guess what?
I'm still bye-bye, yeah, I'mstill bye-bye Good.
So in that moment, a vision wasplaced on my heart and I was

(14:58):
shown this and I've had visions,this is not new to me.
A vision was placed on my heart, of my heart, and it was an
analogy of my heart, as a candlethat had just been snuffed out.
You can imagine when you blow acandle out and the wick has a
tiny bit of ember and there's alittle trail of smoke going up.

(15:18):
That was the posture of my heartand I now know it to be the
Holy Spirit.
And in the moment I knew it asGod, that the Holy Spirit
entered me and the visionchanged from the candle who had
just been snuffed out to acandle burning hugely I mean
like disproportionate to thewick in the candle right this

(15:42):
huge light began emanating fromthe candle and the flame was lit
afresh.
And this flame, it like, pouredits golden light all throughout
me and as this happened, Idon't even remember slowing down
, making it to the end of thebridge, pulling over.
I remember being pulled overafter this experience, you know.

(16:04):
And so the words that came withthe vision, as that golden
light was radiating through mybeing and outside of my being,
in the atmosphere around me, thewords came to me and the words
were clarity of mind and purityof heart, and that became what I
called then my mantra, and Iprayed it ceaselessly and I

(16:27):
would just call in that taste ofGod that I had gotten.
It was a promise, and so Iwould call back to that promise
when I felt really weak andunsure of heart.

(16:47):
It was my breath, it became myeverything, and it took me about
three months of praying that Atfirst I was just trying not to
lie anymore and trying not toget blacked out every night, and
all of that where it becamepretty clear that I was
incapable of obeying that newcommand with alcohol in my life.
So it was that prayer thateventually gave me the fortitude

(17:10):
to walk away from alcoholism,and it was that walking away
from alcoholism that blew thecover off of my abusive
relationship, because thatinstantly became you're no good,
you're never going to make it,you're just a drunk, blah, blah,
blah.
Because that instantly becameyou're no good, you're never
going to make it, you're just adrunk, blah, blah, blah.
You know, very violent, luckilygot out of that, and so that
was when I was 27 is when thathappened.

(17:35):
Actually, I think it was.
I might've been 26.
No, I was 27.
I got sober in April when I was27.
So that it produced somethingin my life that was changing and
life-giving, and it gave me anew faith as well that God is
there, that God is listening,god loves impossible, the author

(17:58):
of life and death, and thatwhere I had chosen death, there
was a greater power and where Ihad been stuck in the demonic,
there was a greater power.
So that sent me out into theworld seeking, and I sought for

(18:20):
a decade.
Every corner a decade everycorner and I did not apply
discernment to every one of them.
Having had so much experienceof the power of spirits, it was
very quick and easy for me tofall into the areas where there
are power of spirits, and so Iwasn't going to places where

(18:44):
nothing was happening.
I was going into.
You know, I I Oracle cards,moon rituals, goddess worship
Started walking the red paththrough a Nipi ceremonies.
I was so, so graciouslywelcomed by the Lakota community
around here for the sweat lodgetradition, and that was where I

(19:06):
actually found my voice, forworship was in the sweat lodge,
in the sweat lodge practice andjust singing out to you.
Know, they call it great spiritor the ability to sing.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
And so seeking, seeking, seeking got six months
into sobriety.
Zane and I got together.
We dated a decade prior.
Right, he was the last boyfriendI had before I went into that
six-year relationship with thegood guy that I forsaked for so
for so for alcohol and lust umso interestingly, came back

(19:41):
around and together our seekingwas sort of like propelled,
because now it became a tenantof our relationship that our
spiritual seeking was somethingwe did together and it became
sort of the foundation of ourhousehold.
Everywhere lots of nudity,divine feminine crystal grids,

(20:06):
lots of crystals, and we wereliterally praying to fallen gods
, spirits, demons.
Maybe we thought we werepraying to the one true living
God through these items and wewere receiving instant
gratification.
Often, I mean, you'd pray forsomething or, you know, create

(20:27):
this ritual with your intentionand then manifest.
Wow, the $10,000, it camewithin.
A week, you know.
So there's this, I want more, Iwant more, and at the same time
and this gets into sort of thisstar seed we fell into the
whole star seed.
And this gets into sort of thisstar seed.
We fell into the whole starseed.

(20:48):
All of them seemed true, Right,it seemed that all of the
dogmas had truth in them, whichnow I can see is there's a lot
of inversion of truth, and Ialso think that that there's a
lot of what should be hiddenknowledge that I think has been
given.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Uncovered yeah From fallen, fallen angelic stuff.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
So there is truth there and it's very appealing.
And so we had all of thesehighs, and they were very high,
but the lows were so low.
And one thing that there werethree things that sort of
quickened, I think, my softeningto the Lord.

(21:27):
I think my softening to theLord.
One was an ayahuasca ceremony,after which everyone in the room
said that they witnessed a darkentity that was standing over
and between Zane and I and itwas comfortable and it had been
there for a long time.
So that was terrifying.
And also, having been held bythese shamans in such a ritual,

(21:49):
then to hear you have a demonicpresence and to go back to them
and say, okay, what do we do now?
And they say I don't know, Ihave this lady I can refer you
to.
You know, we had a war.
She came to our house.
She tore some dark spirit outof our hands through the conduit
of a court.
We dropped to our knees.

(22:11):
I mean, it was a whole thingthis exorcism in the new age.
Right, that was one big one.
You guys don't know, you don'tknow how to close the door we
opened.
I thought it was your door.
Yeah, right, right, you'resupposed to know this stuff.
It's off the hinges.
Yeah, yeah.
It's open forever.
That was terrifying, and inthat I lost a really good

(22:33):
girlfriend who brought me to theceremony, and she was so icked
out by our demons that shewouldn't be my friend anymore.
She's still sitting in theceremony, wow, and she wouldn't
say that we're still friends.
But for me at the time Iperceived it as a total
rejection and a heartache fromall of them.
And another one was I witnessedmy friend Isha and her husband

(22:56):
Dan.
They tragically lost theirtwo-year-old son, who was six
days, nine days, apart from mydaughter.
They were born in lockdown.
It was a big deal.
We had home births and neverbrought our kids to the doctors,
you know, in the craze of itall.
So I was introduced to her thatway and her son tragically died
in a windstorm that took down aredwood tree and this redwood

(23:20):
tree crushed her son in theirhome, his dad sitting next to
him on the couch, fine, and myfriend, you know it was.
I think it was three days afterhe had died.
She had not eaten, she had notslept, she was just crying her
heart out.
And so I got, you know, a bunchof mamas together.

(23:40):
We did this mantra mamas.
We brought mantra mama's circleto her and she was so gracious
she received it.
And then afterward we said howare you, are you going to make
it?
And we were shocked because wejust watched her.
A puddle, worthy of nothing, Imean, she was just a puddle, and
after being surrounded bysisterhood and prayer and

(24:04):
tenderness, she was sitting upso straight and she shared with
all of us heathens that the onlything getting her through it
was her faith in God.
Wow, she shared with us thatGod had been preparing her for
this loss for the five daysbefore Holy smokes.
That at night, she was gripped.
Gripped at the huge loss thatshe would be facing, that she

(24:27):
knew was coming.
She had this premonition ofdeath.
She, she interpreted it asherself.
So for those five days, as soonas the sun set and I, you know,
I maybe isha should come shareher story, because I'm only
sharing what I remember and Icould be totally wrong, so
forgive me she was prayingfervently because she had the

(24:47):
epiphany that her position inGod's kingdom for eternity was
not sure because her faith, shehad not been in right
relationship with God.
So in the days leading up tothis, she's praying fervently to
right herself, in preparationfor death to be taken from her

(25:07):
family.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
It was her son who left.
Was she identifying Jesus?
Oh yes, yeah, very good Okay.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
So she was not so on fire for Christ.
Those five days leading up fullsubmission, full submission
when her son was taken.
The juxtaposition of theirgrief, their mourning and their

(25:37):
loss, it was so big it was hardto breathe in the presence of
that and they married it with somuch faith and hope and
standing on the truth of God'sgoodness the language they used
at his funeral.
God gave us this baby and wewere so blessed to have him for
all of those two years, andwe're grateful that he's gone
home now and that he's with hisreal father.
Holy smokes.

(25:57):
So here I am, total new age,seeking God with all of my heart
.
And yet I had nevercontemplated my standing in
heaven after death.
Ever, never had contemplatedthat.
So that irked me.
I chewed on that and she was sogracious I was allowed a front

(26:21):
seat in their recovery and thenin their birthing their daughter
and she's pregnant again, andGod is front seat in their
recovery and then in theirbirthing their daughter and
she's pregnant again, and God isso good in their lives.
That tragedy brought them insuch closeness and intimacy with
each other, in their marriage,with their family, with the
fellowship around them andespecially with God through

(26:41):
Jesus.
That changed me.
That was the first time I eversaid like that, god, like that.
So I'm chewing on all of this,chewing on all of this Meanwhile
.
So I happened to be a founderof this big homeschool community
in a similar time and I was amoderator on a bunch of threads.

(27:02):
So even programs that weren'tmy kids weren't in the programs.
I was a moderator on a bunch ofthreads.
So even programs that weren't mykids weren't in the programs I
was a moderator.
So I saw in one of our threadsa parent all the parents are
having this conversation oh, thebig kids.
So you know self-led learning,these kids are choosing their
curriculum, and all that is myth.

(27:25):
Blah, blah, blah.
And one of the moms chimed inand said my kid doesn't want to
read that at all.
Then all of the helpful momsthey chime in there too Says oh
well, maybe you could listen toit together on audible, maybe
you can read it with her atnight.
Maybe you can watch the moviefirst and then, or blah, blah,
blah.
Oh, she's just not interested.
She's just not interested.
Finally, that mom says mydaughter is not interested in

(27:47):
reading anything to do with theoccult witches, mysticism, magic
.
She's not interested in any ofthat because I used to run a
business that was deeply steepedin the occult and we have given
it up.
We've come to Christ.
She wants nothing to do with it.
That's all I read stayed on mymind.
I could not stop thinking aboutit.

(28:09):
I didn't know this woman.
I held myself back from askingher, texting her.
Can you tell me about that?
Can you tell me about that?
Okay, so all these are thethree big things that I couldn't
get past.
They were a stumbling block forme in my new age walk.
Just big questions that openedmy heart and God and the Spirit
started pouring in there andguiding me right.

(28:33):
And at this time we're alsohaving the conversation in our
marriage about how the highs areso high but the lows are so low
, and how, even when we felt sohigh, we still had demonic
presence and attachment, and itwasn't just in my husband and I.
Our kids were being attacked.
They were seeing things.

(28:54):
We had visitations in our housethat were absolutely terrifying
to them, and in our new age wewere putting crystals in the
corner of every room we werecalling on Aphrodite.
We were spraying with rose waterthat we had blessed in the name
of the Archangel Michael, butit wasn't working.
None of it was working.
Our kids were under attack,nightmares seeing ghosts or

(29:18):
apparitions, which wasterrifying too, because I'm like
, oh shoot, they got my gift,but I don't know how to handle
my gift.
And it's been hard, right, Idon't want them to be committing
suicide Like I was right.
I was only an it's, by thegrace of God, I didn't.
I can't, I can't promise thatfor them.

(29:39):
Yeah.
That's I.
It's not my grace to extend.
Right.
If I could, I it's not my graceto extend if I could, I would.
So then there was.
It was Easter weekend and I waslaying down with my two kids
doing bedtime they're bothtwitching out under each arm and
I was so in love with them, Ijust had this out my heart.

(30:00):
I was so in love with them, Ijust had this out my heart.
The vision was my heart on fire, so much love that I could not
contain it within myself.
And this practice happened overtime that I would, just as soon
as I would lay down, I would gointo my meditation, my mantras,
my prayers to try to seek Godand pray from that space and I

(30:24):
would just be blasted out withthis heart on fire of love.
And it became a practice where,when I felt like there was
excess, I would, in the astral,travel to places in the world
where there was a lack of love.
And so a common one was thisvery walrus looking man with

(30:44):
green boogers coming out andother bodily fluids, and he was
impossible to love.
And I would pour love out and Iwould see this change.
It would change the atmosphereand change their lives.
And you know a person I saw aguy like in Thailand, who it was
2 am, and he'd been going wayfast on a motorcycle and his

(31:06):
guts are pouring out and therewas no one there and he's dying
and having his last breath.
And I went and poured out andministered in that way, and so
this practice kept goingsimultaneously, as I would
meditate.
Oftentimes I was being givenvisions of a moving light, and
that moving light went from twoserpents that were hooked in a

(31:29):
heart and it was about thefeminine, masculine balance, and
then that heart went intoinfinite.
I mean that that vision oflight moved into an infinity
thing, the Mobius strip, theinfinity sign.
Yes.
And then, as I started everynight going into this ceremony

(31:50):
of praying and then pouring loveout to the dark, most disparate
places of the planet, thatlight started changing from the
infinity sign into a cross.
Funny thing is I paid it nomind.
I paid it no mind.
It didn't even blip my radar atfirst until afterward.

(32:14):
You know the epiphany?
Wow, Okay, you were beingpretty clear here.
So in one of those days where Iwas pouring out all my love
throughout the world, and in oneof those days where I was
pouring out all my lovethroughout the world, I saw that
this outpouring of love tothose who are unlovable is
infectious.
And it was shown as like abridge or a chain of hearts on

(32:35):
fire.
That in the vision every nightit would be like more hearts
were catching on fire, Morehearts are catching on fire,
More hearts are catching on fire.
And then on the final, the lasttime I had this vision, there
were so many hearts catching onfire that the entire

(32:56):
circumference of the globe wasnow ringed with hearts on fire
this pure love.
And then that cross showed and Igo oh, this is, it's a Christed
heart.
That's my interpretation.
This is the Christed heart.
And in that moment this warmthspread over my shoulder.

(33:16):
My eyes are still closed in thevision.
I look over my shoulder andthis, and there is God in the
form of a man.
I know immediately it's JesusChrist of Nazareth.
He never has to introducehimself.
He touches me on the shoulder.
It felt like miraculous healingof all Body, soul, spirit,

(33:39):
miraculous, complete healing,touches my shoulder, almost
laughs at me and says and nowyou may call me by name, lord.
And I took that and wept.

(34:02):
I was so scared.
I took that and instead offalling flat on my face and
saying, oh my God, you havefound me, I've been searching
for you, my sinful, brattylittle self fell on the floor
crying, saying you are going toruin my marriage.

Speaker 3 (34:26):
I love that genuine response.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
My prayer God, please don't let this wreck my
marriage.
God, please don't let this tearmy family apart.
God please, please don't letthis ruin us.
That was a Saturday orsomething.
I think it was a Saturday.
Next day is Easter.
I'm like, playing it cool,we're good.

(34:50):
We're good, babe, I'm crackingat this.
I'm like I'm wobbly.
Every time I could, I would goand cry by myself and just weep.
God, change my man Because hewas more attached to the occult
than I was, in that he was moreattached to things that are
acutely occult and undeniablyoccult.

(35:11):
Chaos, magic blood magic.
Chaos, magic, blood magic andSatanism.
I'm the only reason he did notwalk the path of Satanism,
because when he brought it to me, I said you may not.
Yeah, off limits, it's offlimits, you can try everything
else, Sure, we'll do the bloodand the sex and everything magic
, but that no.
So he was reading all aboutAleister Crowley and we were

(35:33):
doing all this astral projection.
He was pretty much a Satanist,but it was the no-no.
So I'm like he's leaving me.
He's going to leave me for sure.
He was also raised Lutheran, sohe has experience with Christ
that I do not.
That he has rejected.
Right.
So that's a secondary piece.
He's not only super married tothis, he divorced that Right.

(35:55):
I'm not going to ask him to goback.
Right, I don't know anythingabout that practice.
Right, I don't know anythingabout that practice.
Well, easter happens.
I think Monday happened and Ibelieve it was either the Monday
or Tuesday after Easter and myhusband Zane came to his
hypnosis practice where he hadthis huge, wildly successful

(36:17):
hypnosis practice where he wasliterally doing battle in the
spirit with no armor.
So these people are leaving ouroffice feeling light and loved
and all cleansed up.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
And he's taking all the and he's walking home with a
whole new shackle, witheverything on him.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, so it was wild too to see this two-sided man
out in the world.
Everyone I speak to is like heradiates, like what's the good
masculinity, Like a healthymasculinity.
He's so safe.
He had this gift and he hasthis gift.
But then he'd come home.

(36:55):
He'd be annoyed by everythingwe did.
We had good Zane too, but whenhe was down it was so dark he
looked different.
His eyes looked different.
His language is different.
He smelled different.
His appetite was different.

Speaker 3 (37:11):
Yeah, he's ready to go in and cover himself in his
blankets and just be mean toeverybody.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
He was this curmudgeon, my beautiful man,
this healer, would come backinto the shadows of our home and
be awful Not even awful, it wasjust so much tension, it was
icky.
It was not like these thingswere spoken.
Now it's very clear what washappening Then.
We were just in the ick, youknow.
So there was this day where Iknow he's working until 6.30.

(37:41):
He's got five clients, whatever, and then he comes home at 3.
And I'm like oh, what are youdoing here?
Pushes past me, doesn't gostraight to our.
I can't do it anymore.
I can't do it anymore.
He said something.
I remember being startledbecause he used language that I
hadn't heard him use much before, which was I don't know what
I'm doing here anymore.

(38:02):
Wow.
I don't think.
That's a hopelessness.
There was a hopelessness thatspoke to suicide, without saying
it precisely.
Right and there were nuancedways that he was saying this.
So his mom calls because shedoes, and I did something that I
never do, which is I spoke toher in brutal honesty about the

(38:24):
condition of her son which isnot good and I learned before I
was married you don't go to yourhusband's mom to complain, Then
you're her enemy.
She don't protect her son nomatter what.
But you absolutely go to yourhusband's mom for wisdom about
who this person is right.
I mean, she was the firstperson to say, oh, just feed him

(38:47):
water.
He's dehydrated, he needs water.
It's true to this day.
Feed the man some water.
But she called and I said Karen, he's not okay, I'm worried
about him.
He's been in a very deepdepression for a couple of weeks
and it's beyond me.
I've tried all of my normalstuff and it's not working.

(39:08):
He's seething with loathing andhatred and self-hatred.
Dark Dark and she goes oh no, wetalked it was really brief and
she said, okay, sweetie, youtell him to call me when he gets
up.
And I said, okay, I'll do that,I'm holding onto it, right?

(39:30):
I'm like, yes, I will tell himto call you Because he will, no
matter how bad he'll call her.
I'm like, yes, she has an idea.
Right, there's hope.
So I hang up, I go back todoing my dishes.
He's depressed in the bedroom.
The kids are what's wrong withdad?
I don't know.
Just give him some space.
People just need some space.
Sometimes About 15 minuteslater I'm doing the dishes and I

(39:54):
hear this knock on the door.
Like what is that?
I go, I open the door.
There's my mother-in-law, withthis look of resolve I mean
battle ready.
I've never seen that face onher before or since.

(40:14):
She looks at me.
There's softness for me, butit's not.
She looked straight through me,literally pushed me aside, said
where is my son?
I said, oh, he's still in ourbedroom, didn't ask, and this is
so out of character for her.
She didn't ask can I go talk tohim?
She pushes past me, goesstraight back, opens the door
and shuts the door behind her.
I'm like, oh, she's so bold.

(40:35):
Oh, my God, what's about tohappen?
45 minutes later she comes outand leaves.
She goes.
I think he's good and sheleaves.
I'm like peeking in the door.
What happened in there?
I don't know.
We didn't even talk about itthat day.
We didn't even talk about whathappened that day.
The next day we have this littlemeeting because we were doing a

(40:59):
lot of work together at thattime and I'm terrified.
I'm convinced this is the timehe's going to leave me, right,
cause now I've, I've, I.
I hadn't even told him I'd cometo Christ, but I thought he
knew.
And he's going to leave me.
And he comes and he's like babe, I have something I need to
talk to you about.
Like, this is serious.

(41:22):
I don't know how it's going tobe received.
I just ask you to like, try tohave an open mind, okay, babe?
Like, oh, he's leaving me.
He wants to go date otherpeople.
What is this?
We're going to have an openrelationship, you know all this
stuff common in the new age andhe, like puts his hand down on
mine.
He says, babe had a revelationof christ as god and in our
household we're going to need toserve him from here on out.

(41:44):
And I'm like instantly weepingand he's like but but you know
it can slow, it doesn't have tobe like it could just be mine.
You have no idea.
God is so good.
So then I tell him it's been 48hours of me like weeping Don't

(42:06):
let this break our family apart.
And I'm like, how did?
How did it happen?
He said.
But my mom came in yesterday.
She didn't say much.
She asked me a couple ofquestions and then she said
where's your Bible?
And I went and I got it and sheleft.
And I was left there on myknees saying God, if you, I'm

(42:29):
bound by powers greater than me.
That's right.
And I can't break them on my own.
If you are real and true, God,show me that you're more
powerful than the things thatare gripping my family Come on.
And that was his revelation, wasthrough the word, and he got it
.
The darkness, I believe he says, fell away from him and the

(42:51):
atmosphere in our house waschanged immediately and he can't
come back from that.
There's no turning away fromthat right.
So then we ran together, handin hand, full speed, toward
Christ, Jesus, God and the HolySpirit, and the woman who had

(43:11):
said, oh, my daughter's notinterested in that.
I reached out to her finally.
I showed the boldness, that wasNina.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
Oh yay, mark and Nina .
Yeah, that was Nina.
Oh yay, mark and Nina.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah it was Nina.
So I reached out to her and I'myou know, I feel I'm feeling
the pressure of the spiritsaying, yes, do it.
Yes, do it, Cause I've beenwanting to do it for six months
and I haven't had the boldness.
And finally I'm making the textand I'm praying like, oh God, I
don't want to do it, I don'twant to do it.
But my hand was forced and shereceived me.

(43:41):
I mean, the next day, she'slike yes, let's go get coffee.
This woman refused to waterdown the gospel for me as much
as I pushed on her.
I remember sitting there athardcore coffee or wherever we
were in Sebastopol, sittingoutside.
She's's beautiful.

(44:02):
She's all dark hair, blue eyestatted up.
Right she looks like the worldand as she's proclaiming truth,
she's also looking almostangelic, right like the words
coming out of her mouth areedifying everything around us.

(44:22):
And it was such a foreignlanguage I just remember sitting
and like basking in it andwondering will I ever know that
language?
She was just speaking onbiblical truth that she didn't

(44:42):
water it down and didn't allowmixture at that point, because
she was so on fire for christ atthat point.
Yeah, I remember she's the onewho brought us to church yeah
and um, and we've never lookedback, and so she's the one who
invited us to lighthouse.
In that same time, we also wentto one of the big mega churches
around here there aren't manyof them and the pastor I

(45:06):
remember there was this youngpastor.
I don't remember his name, buthe seemed to really notice us
when we were there and he wouldcome and shake Zane's hand and
we're like this is it?
We're finding our people thereimmediately.
And then I think Zane askedthat guy like so what do we
think about preterism?
Eh, and that guy looked at himand said something along the

(45:27):
lines of-.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Pentecostalism.

Speaker 1 (45:30):
We don't no preterism .

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Preterism.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah Right, Isn't that an interpretation?
Preterism.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
Preterism is an eschatological view on things
happening in the end times.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yes, okay okay yeah, so he was.
We're brand new yeah he'sreading revelation.
He's curious about end times hedoes something about following
preterism and that pastor sayswe don't talk about that here
wow, not willing to answer yourquestion.
Yeah.
As brand new.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
That's off limits, sorry.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
We don't, that's not, we don't, we just don't touch
it here.

Speaker 3 (46:08):
Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
And that was the push .
Then that said, oh, we have togo to that other church that
Nina invited us to Cause.
We were like, oh yeah, maybewe'll check it out, but this
one's so fun and they give usfree water bottles and donuts on
mother's day, right.
And then so now we're like eek,how are we ever going to really
join this community of in felt,in in intimacy and fellowship,

(46:35):
if there are questions that areoff limits?
We need to be able to ask thequestions, and we're going to
ask some questions that aregoing to make people
uncomfortable, especiallybecause we come from an
uncomfortable place yeah, forsure
and a lot of experience withspirits outside of the bible,
right.
So that was this huge red flagand we're like, oh, I guess we
got to go check that place out.
We go check lighthouse out andwe're just bowled over by the

(46:56):
presence of the holy spirit andalso, as someone who's been
singing my whole life, to seepeople worshiping in the Spirit,
that was missing at that otherplace where the music was great
and it was moving, but it didn'tmake you want to weep your soul
out and hand it over.
So we're like fold over Gooddescription.

(47:18):
Yeah, and the church wasdesperate for a drummer and they
liked my pipes and we gotswooped in on worship and I'm
I'm just so grateful becausewhat we found were Christians,
an emphasis on rightrelationship.
All praise and glory goes toJesus and we do nothing without

(47:41):
the Holy Spirit, amen.
And in that we were received bypeople who were willing to
offer grace and mercy around ouriniquities and the beliefs that
we were holding tight to andour confusion and our language I
mean frankly, our language wasoffensive Right.
We're looking everywhere forthe divine feminine Right and I

(48:02):
mean frankly, our language wasoffensive.
We're looking everywhere for thedivine feminine, and I mean so.
I think that's the gist of thetestimony.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
Cool.
So let me, for those listening,a couple of statements.
One of the things that I havewritten here for this interview
time is the question was how didyou know the old stuff wasn't
working?
And you answered it perfectly.
And the nature is, you've got akingdom conflict and a superior

(48:31):
dog, a bigger dog, comes in andyou're not a big enough dog to
deal with that dog.
And that's typical in a lot ofthese scenarios, because you're
dealing with authorities andprincipalities that have real
substance and have real power.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
And that the people who called it in could not get
rid of it.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, and the dynamic we've talked about before is
the greater kingdom, and so youknow how do you deal with a big
dog.
You get a bigger dog, and partof nina's testimony, which you
know, uh, which I've shared alittle bit here, but not much,
uh, we'll see if we can get heron here um is she knew jesus was

(49:14):
different because when he camehe didn't take, he gave amen, he
gave and so full confession,right, like, like, I'm a pastor,
I'm supposed to protect thesheep, and so when a person with
a cultic background comesaround, there's.
There's all kinds of stuff outthere about witches infiltrating

(49:35):
churches and that kind of stuffand so oh yeah, you're afraid
of us, so you've us.
So you've already got this.
You've already got this.
I've never considered that.
Yep, you've already got this.
Is this a real conversion?
Is this not a real conversion?
Is this a wolf?
Is this a sheep Like?
What am I doing here?
And you have to discern thosethings, you have to test those
things.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
This is a revelation for me Look at you so glad.
I never knew that y'all werelooking at us like that.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
No, it's not everybody and not all pastors do
that I know.
So I'm, you know these are thethings I'm looking for.
But when I was asking Nina okay, tell me about the moment when
she said when he came he gave Isaid you really met him.
That was real, that it wasn't agame, it wasn't, it wasn't this

(50:25):
, it was.
You know that that was real.
And you know, especially outhere on this, the, the, the
outer edge of West County, likethat's all we got out here
there's, you know it's, it'snothing but, and so you've you
got to discern, you know, yougot to figure out what's what,
and so so that that was thefirst thing.
The second thing that I want todo is, for those of you who are

(50:48):
listening, sometimes it can be alittle bit confusing to hear
that there is a a a revelationprocess in coming to know God,
and we talked about this beforethat Jesus says all who have
learned from the Father come tome.
And if we've got a goodunderstanding of the doctrine of
election, god already knowsyou're going to say yes to him

(51:11):
way back when.
And so he begins to organizeand arrange and posture and
position these events to get youto spots and the language that
I use for folks who kind of havemore of a sensitivity to the
unseen, we've called it.
I've called it that person's asensitive versus otherwise.

(51:33):
And people can be sensitive andnot be Christian at all.
They can completely besensitive to that realm.
I've got family members thatare like that.
Like I was before coming to Rome, right 100%, and so it's this
for that person.
It's almost like the veil isthinner for them, and so they're
more prone to certain kinds ofexperiences and the unseen realm

(51:55):
is more prone to see themdifferently than just a kind of
normal human or a dense humanwould probably be a way to put
it like one who's unaware ordoesn't see.
There's all kinds of languagesurrounding it, but the language
I use is a sensitive In someinterviews I've been reviewing.

(52:18):
Recently, a gentleman has aninterview with a guy named
Santosh, and Santosh is a.
He's a Hindu and he diesPractices Hinduism.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
So he's a Hindi.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Is that the?

Speaker 3 (52:37):
correct term I'll defer to you you can call us
higher.
Yeah, so he's a practicing hinduand he, uh, or he's, he
practices hinduism.
There we go, uh, he, uh, uh, hedies and he's immediately trans
, translated, trend whattransported?
He's, he's in the spirit, inthe spirit, in the spirit realm,

(52:59):
and he's standing on a bridgeand he sees this city and he
called it a compound becausethat's what they have in India.
They have compounds and they'rewalled compounds.
They're protective compoundsbecause the nature of the third
world country, like you, got toprotect your people and you know
if you've got the money, youmake sure that you've got.

(53:19):
You know.
Same thing in Kenya.
You go to some of these places,like when we went to Kenya where
you, you go into a shoppingcenter and it's surrounded by
walls and barbed wire and whenyou drive in you've got soldiers
with mirrors on the bottom ofsticks looking under to make
sure there's nothing underneaththe car.
And then you go in and it'slike a first world mall, but on

(53:42):
the outside of that compoundit's not.
So he sees this compound and hesays it's like thousands of
miles long and he knowsimmediately there's 12 gates and
that there's 12 angels at the12 gates.
He's never read the Bible, he'snever been exposed to this.
He doesn't know this.

(54:03):
This is not a front-loadedthing, it's not a cultural thing
.
My parents had this religionand so he sees it and it's the
heavenly city.
But he knows that all the gatesare shut to him and he can't go
inside.
But he knows he wants to goinside, in him longs that.
He knows what's happening tothe people in there.

(54:24):
He longs and it's like that'sthe longing my heart.
And then suddenly he's, there'sa king on a throne on this,
this bridge, and it's God, it'sJesus.
And the funny thing is, in yourstory he never identifies
himself as Jesus.
Ready, watch, it gets betterand he goes this.

(54:49):
This King is like 30 foot tall,he's a giant, okay, sitting on a
throne, and he gets an instantreview of his life and he
realizes you know, I was never agood person, I'm not a good
person.
I thought it was.
I'm not.
You know, we all know.
You know I was never a goodperson.
I'm not a good person.
I thought I was, I'm not.
You know, we all know.

(55:09):
You know, before you codedJesus, you tend to whitewash
yourself.
But then you find out and hisholiness comes.
You're like I suck, oh my gosh,I never knew.
So he's get this, he gets thisreview, but he felt no
condemnation from this guy.
Condemnation from this guy itwas, it was an instant review of
his life and and and.
So he gets the review.
And he's now, he's aware ofthis, this huge abyss that's

(55:32):
underneath the bridge and at thevery, very bottom of this, this
huge abyss, is this lake offire at the bottom.
And he's aware, okay, these are, these are the two places, this
heavenly city or this lake offire at the bottom.
And he's aware, okay, these are, these are the two places, this
heavenly city or this lake offire.
And so, and he, again, he's gotno biblical context and so
right.
And so he's talking to this god,this and, and he's like this is

(55:54):
not one of my hindu gods, I, Idon't know who this god is.
I have no no idea who this Godis.
Who is this?
So all these questions?
He knows Hinduism and he'sreviewing everything.
He's like none of my books talkabout this dude, like nothing.

(56:14):
So he's talking with him and Godtells him he says I'm going to
send you back and I need you tobe particularly sensitive to
your daughter.
She's getting ready to gothrough a really rough time.
You got to be there for her.
And he starts telling himthings that are coming and why
he's going to go back, et cetera.
And then he notices a verynarrow gate and it's open to him

(56:36):
.
The other ones were closed tohim and God's getting ready to
send it back.
And he goes wait, wait, wait,when I come back, I want to go
in there.
And the Lord says to him Santosh, the wages of sin is death.
And he begins to talk to himand he tells him he goes.

(56:57):
He says he knew in Santosh'smind what he was thinking of was
what church do I go to?
What ashram do I go to?
What temple do I go to?
What system do I find?
What guru do I go connect with?
How do I do something everyweek to make sure I can get in?
And so his mind goes instantlyreligious, total, perfunctory,

(57:20):
like what do I do and works andactions to make sure that I get
there?
And he stops him.
He goes.
The wages of sin is death.
I want to know if you'll followme every day.
That's what I want to know.
And he sends him back goosebumpsnever tells him his name, never

(57:44):
tells him I'm Jesus, never saysread the Bible, never says none
of this.
And so so Santosh now spendsseveral years trying to figure
out who this, this God, is.
And a couple of years later,one of his daughters is at, like
some sort of a recital, at aChristian Baptist church and the
Baptist pastor gets up and hestarts preaching on the narrow

(58:06):
way and the narrow gate church.
And the baptist pastor gets upand he starts preaching on the
narrow way and the narrow gateand then he says the wages of
sin is death and he goes.
That's him.
And he says when he walked in,he felt the spirit of god and he
was like this is the one and hegives away everything and he
becomes a christian and and soso what I want to tell you guys

(58:28):
listening, is that sometimes itcan be hard for Christians who
are caught in this thing tounderstand how God can still
reach for somebody, even whenthey don't know his name, even
before they understand even theGod who they're even reaching
out to.
And Acts 17 says this Paul's atthe Areopagus in Athens.

(58:51):
And this is Acts 17, 22,.
Paul is provoked inside of himbecause he sees all of these
idols and they're all two fallenangelic beings.
There's a real substance behindJupiter and Zeus and all this
stuff.
And so he's in the Areopagusand he's provoked and he decides
he needs to preach.
And so the Areopagus is the topof this hill.

(59:13):
It's called Mars Hill.
So Paul stood in the midst ofthe Areopagus and he said Men of
Athens, I observe that you arevery religious in all respects.
While I was passing through andexamining the objects of your
worship, I found an altar withthis inscription to an unknown
God, and their hope was maybe,if there's one I don't know who

(59:34):
he is I want to be able to tryto connect with that one.
That kind of an idea, okay.
And he says, therefore, what youworship in ignorance, I
proclaim to you now the God whomade the world and all things in
it, since he is Lord of heavenand the earth does not dwell in
temples made by human hands, noris he served by human hands as
though he needed anything, sincehe Himself gives to all people

(59:57):
life and breath and all things,for he made from one man every
nation of mankind to live on theface of the earth, having
determined appointed times andthe boundaries of their
habitation, that perhaps theywould seek God, and perhaps they
might grope for Him and findHim, though he is not far off
from each of us, for in Him welive and we move and we exist

(01:00:17):
and, as even some of your ownpoets have said, we are all His
children.
Being then the children, weought not to think that the
divine nature is like gold orsilver or stone or an image
formed by the art or thought ofman.
Therefore, having overlookedthe times of ignorance, he is
now declaring to you that allmen everywhere should repent
because he is fixed today, inwhich he will judge the world in

(01:00:37):
righteousness through a manwhom he has appointed, having
furnished proof to all men thatthis man is the one he has
appointed by raising him fromthe dead.
Now you can call me by my namewhat doesn't say that oh right,
okay, I'm like how okay, so forthose of you listening, there is

(01:01:00):
a pre-learning that the fatherdoes to draw people, and the
spirit of god is is absolutelyinvolved in that.
It's not being born again.
The person still must be bornagain.
They still must, they come.
We were talking yesterday.
They come to the door that isChrist.
They still have to say yes andenter, walk through it.
Right, jesus said and John, Iam the gate, I am the door, I am

(01:01:23):
the only way into the sheepfold.
And so there is that dynamic.
And so what I want for folks toA number one if you're praying
for somebody, if they're forreal and they really want to
know God, he'll find them.
He will absolutely find them.
I believe that anyone who can besaved will be saved and that

(01:01:43):
God will move mountains to findthem, because that is absolutely
what he wants.
There's more glory for God in asinner who becomes a saint, or
in an enemy who becomes a friend, or a hater of God who becomes
a lover of God.
There's more glory for Him inthe conversion of a sinner that

(01:02:05):
becomes a lover of God than fora sinner who burns in hell for
eternity.
And both things will happen.
There is an eternal place andthere is an eternal judgment.
So God is consistently lookingfor those who will say yes to
Him, and even if they, thelanguage he says here, if
perhaps they might grope for Himand find him is this image of.

(01:02:28):
I have no idea what I'm lookingfor.
There's this haze, but everyonce in a while I get this
glimpse of light, so I'm goingto head that direction.
And then eventually there'sthis point where he comes.
And so the story of Santosh,much like your story, is this
the beginnings and the leadingsof God, in which he draws

(01:02:52):
somebody to Himself and thenmakes them what he intended for
them to be all along.
So I find that really, really,really cool and so good.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
I just strongly, strongly encourage people that
if you are reaching for someoneor having these conversations
with people who have notsubmitted to Jesus yet, that you
just hold it with tendernessand curiosity, because the
unfolding and the unraveling ofmy own understanding did not
come from the teaching and thepreaching, and the unraveling of

(01:03:26):
my own understanding did notcome from the teaching and the
preaching and the reading alone.
It came a lot from conversationand that requires a kind of
grace that I just really, really, you know, I would compel
people to.
If you're feeling triggeredthat someone is speaking untruth

(01:03:48):
or it doesn't match up withyour understanding of the Bible,
take it to prayer before you go.
Negate someone's experiencebecause we serve the God of the
impossible, right, it's not.
I see so frequently that we arethe only ones putting a cap,
putting a limit on what God cando in our lives, and that's
based on our belief.

(01:04:08):
And so you know, if you trulybelieve that we serve the God of
the impossible, then let theimpossible, then entertain the
impossible.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Sure, yeah, and you know I want to be careful.
There there is a sense in whichthere are things that he won't
do in ways that you know, likehe's not going to show up as
Satan and be like I'm Jesus.
No.
You know, and there is places ofdeception, like for Corinthians
2 Corinthians says that thedevil can show up as an angel of
light.
So we want to make sure that wejudge spiritual, subjective

(01:04:41):
experiences by the standard ofthe word of God.
But to your point, you know,the Jews knew of a group of
people called the God-fearers,and it was people who had a
sense of the reality of the Godof Judaism, of Yahweh, and
respected Him as such and evenwanted Him and desired Him.

(01:05:03):
In Acts, chapter 10, this mannamed Cornelius desires Yahweh
and he's praying and an angel issent and stands in the living
room and says so.
Christians listen.
A non-believer's prayers arereceived and heard by the God on
the throne.
Acts chapter 10.

(01:05:27):
Your prayers and alms have comebefore God and I have come in a
response to your prayers andyour alms.
And then he sends him to Peterand says go to Joppa, get Peter.
He's at Simon the Tanner'shouse and this event becomes the
first moment of the inclusionof the Gentiles into the church.
Peter comes back and he's notexpecting to have anything to do

(01:05:47):
with the Gentiles, but theSpirit gives him a vision on top
of the inclusion of theGentiles into the church.
Peter comes back and he's likenot expecting to have anything
to do with the Gentiles, but theSpirit gives him a vision on
top of the roof and he goes I'mdoing something and you need to
drop your preconceived notions.
And so a detachment fromCornelius is Cornelius is a
centurion, he's a Roman, youknow, soldier, general,
high-ranking military officer.

(01:06:08):
His detachment comes and getsPeter and brings him back and
says an angel said that you weregoing to come speak to me words
by which I must be saved.
And so Peter preaches thegospel and they get baptized in
the Holy Spirit.
And so Peter preaches thegospel and they get baptized in

(01:06:29):
the Holy Spirit, start speakingin tongues and Peter says if God
granted them this baptism inthe Holy Spirit, the same way he
did with us at the beginning.
Who am I to withhold the waterfrom them?
And so they get baptized inwater, and it becomes such an
event that he gets grilled thenext chapter by the Jews who are
like why are you going aroundwith Gentiles?

(01:06:49):
And then, later on, at theJerusalem Council, he refers
back to this moment.
And so you know there is asequential math.
If the revelation stopped atthe angel, he's not saved.
If the revelation stops at thefirst reach from God, he's not
saved.
There had to be the continuingcompletion of the revelation,

(01:07:12):
like the light you received thatflooded you.
It's an image of revelationthat there must be a completion
of that or it's not fulfilled.
And so the fulfillment of thatis the preaching of Peter
concerning Christ and what hedid, and the fulfillment of your
moment is the.

(01:07:32):
Now you can call me by name,and a name is that claim of
relationship where Jesus saysyou've now got access to me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Praise God and, interestingly, I haven't thought
much about this In that moment.
I had never read the Bible, noone had ever preached the gospel
to me.
I'd only really spent time inCatholic church, which was a
different gospel that was beingpreached and that, knowing that

(01:08:07):
this is God in the flesh and itis Jesus Christ, I mean, what a
wild epiphany.
As a person who I never heardJesus is God, I never understood
why a Christian is so all aboutJesus.
I just thought that he was theChrist.
Just another dude.
I didn't think.
I was going to be like him,jesus.

(01:08:27):
I just thought that he was theChrist.
Just another dude To be likehim, you know.
And so, yeah, it sent me intothe Bible to confirm my you know
what I had experienced.
Like oh, is that what the Biblesays, that Jesus is God?
Because now I know Jesus is God.
Yeah.
But is that what the Bible'sall about?
You know, it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Same kind of thing with Santosh, the.
You know, the wages of sin isdeath.
And this is seen a lot in theMuslim world right now as well,
where you've got nations thatare resistant to the gospel and
so you can't go and preach there, you can't take Bibles there.
If you get caught they willimprison you and potentially
kill you.
Where Jesus is showing up andintroducing himself with titles

(01:09:08):
and names to people who've neverread the Bible ever.
Like that movie Show Me yourGlory, that Jamie was on that we
interviewed Jamie a coupleweeks ago or last month.
Where the dude is, he's inHamas and he's thrown in jail
and he's calling out to God andhe's calling out to who he

(01:09:33):
thinks is God, is Allah.
And then Jesus shows up and hegoes.
He was same thing, immediatelyaware of the holiness and his
sinfulness, like, immediatelyaware, and falling on his face
and such.
And he's like who are you?
And Jesus answered I am the way, the truth and the life.
Dude's never read the BibleLike does the word still stand,

(01:09:56):
that's right.
So so I, you know, I want folkslistening to, to be able to you
know couch this right and to beable to see what's happening.
And to Noel's point's point ifyou hear something and it
provokes you, pray on it.
You might be right.
There might be a mixture there.
That's the thing, especiallywith folks who come out of the

(01:10:18):
New Age realm.
Being rewired is a thing thathas to happen for a lot of folks
.
But be gracious, that's thenumber one thing, and look for
what leads a person to the nameof Jesus, because that's the
thing.
There's no other name givenunderneath heaven by which men

(01:10:39):
must be saved, but the name ofJesus is what Acts, chapter 4,
says, and so the things that areleading to the name.
They are absolutely needed.
The other dynamic, too, is look,even Balaam is a pagan prophet
for hire and he must obey Yahwehconcerning Yahweh's people.
People don't understand this.

(01:10:59):
Okay, Balaam is a successfulprophet for hire who's not a
prophet of Yahweh, but he knowsYahweh's real, and so when he
sees Yahweh's people, what doeshe say to the king who hires him
to curse him?
He says I can't say anythingexcept what Yahweh tells me to

(01:11:23):
say.
So think about thoseimplications.
There are spirits out there whoknow that the people they're
about to engage are the peopleof God.
They are not allowed to say,lead or do anything different
than what Yahweh says.
So you've got people likeDustin, who goes to a psychic

(01:11:45):
and the chick is like take theBible, go to church, I don't
know what to tell you.
And he comes to church and hegets gloriously saved.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
She couldn't help herself.

Speaker 3 (01:12:01):
Well, I think the math is is whatever familiar
spirit she's entertaining islike yeah, no, you got to do
this one with that one.
You can't like, yeah, you seethe light there, that's not one
of ours, you've got to playbrother rules with that one.
I think that's the dynamic ofwhat's happening.
And so, in god's sovereignty,he's the god of spirits he is.
He is the one who is unlike anyother.
Everything must bow like, evenin the end, guys, the devil
plays by god's plan.

(01:12:22):
Like he doesn't get to to, hewill bow the knee, just like
everybody else.
And so understand that God issovereign, even over areas that
we think are off limits to yourpoint, which is, if he's the God
of the impossible, the thingsthat we're like oh man, that

(01:12:43):
cuts contrary to my preconceivednotions.
Where, like oh man, that cutscontrary to my preconceived
notions, like you know, judgethose things by the sovereignty
of God and by the fact thatwe've got biblical examples,
like the Witch of Endor whosummons Samuel and it's really
Samuel, okay, like she wasn'texpecting to see Samuel.
And so she sees Samuel and sheexclaims oh my gosh, it's an

(01:13:06):
Elohim, a supernatural being,and she wasn't expecting to see
that.
She was probably expecting tosee one of her familiar spirits
that would pop up and do thestuff that they were hired to do
.
And she's like oh my God,you're Saul, you're going to
kill me.
And he goes stop, just tell me,he's an old man and he looks
like he's like that Samuel.
What does he say?
I mean, he's an old man and helooks like he's like that Samuel

(01:13:28):
.
What does he say?
So, even in unconventionaldynamics, god is at work, god is
doing a thing.
Now, that doesn't mean we golooking for those loopholes or
those exceptions to try to makea norm out of exception things,
but what it does mean is thatour God is sovereign, even over

(01:13:49):
those moments, even over thosemoments.
Did I have any other thing here?
Oh yeah, just the warning aswell, guys, when you're dealing
with this stuff and we talkedabout this yesterday, 2
Corinthians 6, that in yourreach for people, there are

(01:14:10):
certain bridges that can't bebuilt.
There are certain things thatyou cannot compromise on.
2 Corinthians 6 says that thereis no fellowship between the
believer and the unbeliever,there is no harmony or accord
between Christ and Belial, thereis no agreement between the
temple of God and between idols,and so there are certain things

(01:14:31):
that are absolutely off limits,like no, that doesn't fly.
Yet we're also called to be allthings to all men that we might
by some means save some, andthere's a fine line between that
.
Do not be conformed to the waysof the world, but be
transformed by the renewing ofyour mind and so, listening to
the Lord, okay, what is a placewhere we can find common ground?

(01:14:53):
And even to the point of yourtestimony, nina didn't hold
anything back with the gospel.
It was a hardline gospel.
You keep people by what you savethem with.
You keep people by what yousave them with.
And so if you save people witha fog machine and nice singing
and compromise, the way you keepthem is by a fog machine and

(01:15:14):
nice sayings and a compromise.
But if they're won by the true,unadulterated, real gospel,
jesus Christ came to savesinners and rose from the dead
to make them right with God, andhe is the one true King and
there is no other kingdom otherthan His that is worth anything,
you keep them by the hard truth, then hard truth will continue

(01:15:41):
to keep them, and that's how youbuild tough people, that's how
you build unshakable people.
Additionally, in this there arefalse Jesuses.
The 2 Corinthians 10 talksabout another Jesus and another
Christ, and so there are thingsthat go around and they name
themselves this and they namethemselves that.
So discernment is absolutelynecessary.
Trust God and be gracious.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Can I ask a question?
Absolutely absolutely, yeah,can I ask a question?
Absolutely?
So you had said at one point,you know, I guess I just need a
little clarity myself, becausethere's this sense that not
everyone will be saved becausesome people are going to hell.
And how do we hold that?

(01:16:25):
As well as you know thestatement that every knee shall
bow and every tongue shallproclaim that Jesus is God.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
Great question.
So that final statement is aconquering statement.
It's not a salvation statement.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
Got it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:43):
So what happens in salvation when a person
willingly says yes to Jesus isdifferent than one must say yes
to Jesus and that Philippians,chapter 2, every knee will bow,
every tongue confess.
That means the devil and thedemonic too, and they're not
saved.
So the dynamic is this Rightnow, there's a day coming where

(01:17:05):
Jesus will come as conqueringking.
Dynamic is this Right now,there's a day coming where Jesus
will come as conquering king.
He is not going to come as themeek and mild lamb who allowed
himself to be crucified.
He is coming as the one withflames in his eyes and a
two-edged sword from his mouthand he will war and make war,
and the blood of his enemieswill rise to the level of the
reins of horses.
That's the book of Revelationand the battle of Armageddon.

(01:17:29):
Okay, so when he comes likethat, he's laying everybody low
and at that point the conqueringking comes into a city, even
the enemies who don't like theking that are in the city.
They're like yeah, we're goingto bow, because otherwise we're
going to get smoked.
That's different than thesalvation love in which I want
to give myself to him.

Speaker 1 (01:17:48):
And it's different to proclaim yes, jesus is God.
That proclamation is verydifferent than yes.
I submit and surrender myselfto.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
Jesus.
That's right.
James says that the demons havecorrect doctrine.
He says this.
He says the demons believe thatGod is one.
Or say you believe that God isone, you do.
Well, the demons believe also,and they tremble.
And so one of the dichotomies inthe church, especially the
Western church, is that which Ihold to intellectually versus

(01:18:24):
that what I actually believe, anactual belief, is seen in
action.
We don't believe in salvationby works, so we don't do stuff
to get saved, but we do believein a salvation that does work,
meaning the evidence that I'vebeen saved will find its way out
in my lifestyle.
And with a demonic, they've gotright doctrine.

(01:18:46):
They've got correct headknowledge.
The devil knows more aboutscripture than I do.
The demonic has a greaterrevelation for lack of a better
term of the nature of God thanwe do, and yet they won't be
saved.
And so the one that's forced tobow is different than the one
that freely gives themselvesover because they want to love

(01:19:09):
God.
And that's the actual mathright now.
Until he comes back, he'slooking for those who love him,
those who will love him back.
You know anyone who's read theirBible like they know, like
Jesus loves you, duh, okay, eventhough you're a hell-deserving
wrath-of-God-abiding curmudgeon.

(01:19:30):
I think is what you saidearlier.
I haven't heard that in commonvernacular in a while.
So well done, even though we'reall that.
That he's.
His question to us is not do Ilove you?
His question to us is will youlove me back?
And that's what he's lookingfor and that's what we want.

(01:19:53):
And Psalm 110, verse three,says that that defines the day
of his power, that those wholove him are freewill offerings
or freewill sacrifices orwillingly give themselves to him
.
And that's entirely differentthan the conquering king, where
all enemies are like you're thebig dog.
So is that helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
Well, I think yeah, go ahead Another question.
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
If my observation of this this like there is an
increase in Christ curiositythat I'm observing in the
circles I there are women whoare having this desire to learn
more about to, you know, getright with Jesus, and that there

(01:20:52):
is a pullback and a hesitation,you know, stick in the mud vibe
coming from the men.
Now, how do we encourage thesewomen who are on the right path?
So we want to encourage them.
Yes, go, influence your man,influence your family.
But it's also like a directdisobedience.

(01:21:13):
A lot of these women, like Ihave a friend who had a
revelation of Christ, changedher life, brought it back to her
man and it was like you are notallowed to talk about this in
this household and she'ssubmitted to him.
They don't talk about it.
It's been years, she's not anymore saved than she was when she

(01:21:34):
had her revelation.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
How do you reconcile?
How do you, how do you excuseme?

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Encourage the women to continue on their path and
stand in the in the righthierarchy in their households
and in their marriage Sure.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
So 1 Peter.
Their man and the walk 1, petersays that there is a way in
which a woman can live that canwin her husband without words.
Okay, and I don't want to gointo the details exactly of what
the passage means, but it'scouched in the idea of her
godliness of what the passagemeans, but it's couched in the
idea of her godliness.
And I would say to any womanwho's in a position like that

(01:22:11):
your prayers are much moreeffective than anything else
Because, according to the bookof Revelation, your prayers
arise before God on this incensealtar that's in heaven.
That is intrinsically tied tothe prayers of the saints, okay,
not the prayers of everyone on,okay, not the prayers of
everyone on earth, the prayersof those who belong to him, and

(01:22:32):
that god is listening and thathe, he looks with favor upon
your godliness and and yourposition in that marriage.
That's the first thing.
The second thing is that thatthere is a sense in which there
is a you must obey God ratherthan men.
Okay, and that's in the book ofActs, where they tell Peter and

(01:22:55):
John they say you need to stoppreaching in the name of Jesus.
Well, they had a direct commandfrom Jesus to preach, and so
the idea of submission toauthorities was trumped by the
direct command of Christ, and sothat's there too.
Romans 13 speaks aboutsubmission to authorities and

(01:23:16):
such, and, in a greater sense,of even the justice system that
God places you in or thenational system that God places
you in.
System that God places you inor the national system that God
places you in, there's asubmission to that that is godly
and that is required.
But when that begins to goagainst what God has instructed

(01:23:37):
you, there is a conscientiousobjection that is necessary and
appropriate.
What that line is for eachperson?
Nobody can tell you what thatis.
You need to figure that outaccording to your own conscience
.
Number one and number twoaccording to the command of the
Lord.
There may be instances where hetells you to be quiet and the

(01:24:00):
same type of scenario withsomebody else he tells them to
say something because we don'tknow what's happening in the
hearts and behind the scenes,that God is doing something.
So you know, one of the thingsthat we've had regularly in
these interviews or in thesesessions where we've been
talking, is discerning andhearing the voice of the Lord.
That is absolutely primary.

(01:24:21):
You must, especially as we cometo these end times, develop
such a relationship with Godthat he can tell you and, like
he says in Isaiah, you have avoice behind you that says this
is the way to walk.
They're into the left and notto the right.
And that level of detail anddirection by the Holy Spirit is
so important that and I thinkJamie was the first one I heard

(01:24:44):
say this is you need to be ableto hear God so clearly that he
can tell you do not answer thatknock at the door, do not answer
that knock at the door Becauseyou don't know who's behind that
door.
But I do, especially withwhat's coming, and so,
developing that level ofconnection with God, to hear His

(01:25:04):
voice like that and then listento Him as you negotiate those
relationships and then trust HimAbsolutely, trust Him,
absolutely trust Him.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
Something that I feel is worthy of sharing is I have
had a lot of resistance toreading the Bible at first
because of just my ownpresuppositions of just my own
presuppositions.
And in the practice of reallysearching for God's voice and
and in really working throughthe discernment and all of that,

(01:25:35):
I have found that reading theBible is like a portal to God's
voice is how I feel that I meanI remember reading numbers and
being like what, and I'm nevergonna remember numbers is like
this person had these kids atthis age.

(01:25:56):
Those kids had these kids atthese age.
Genealogy numbers of it's I'mnot.
I'm not a numbers person.
I remember just reading it andslogging through it and being
like, oh, why am I reading this?
It took me a lot and it's notjust numbers.
There's kings and Deuteronomyon either.
It's not the gospel, right,it's a little dry and, in

(01:26:22):
obedience, cracking it every dayand reading, and reading, and
reading.
And I remember getting throughthose three books and being just
shocked at how clear God'svoice was for me.
And it wasn't because I got themessage, because I still don't
think I've got the message inits vision it was an obedience

(01:26:45):
and, yeah, like an, an opening,an opening to his voice.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
You know that word is I was reading in daniel chapter
, I think it was in 10 um and uh, gabriel comes to give daniel
an interpretation of a dreamvision that daniel had and
daniel was freaked out becauseit's, it's, it's all in times
visions.
He tells him this is the stuffconcerning the end of the age
and he sees these beasts withthese heads and this thing and a

(01:27:12):
horn on one, and the horn'stalking.
It's blaspheming and it's, it's, it's.
We call it apocalypticliterature, is the the scholarly
term for it, and it meansapocalypse, means revelation,
and it means it's super symbolic, highly symbolic, and you're,
you're like, okay, well, thebeast is a kingdom and well,
okay, now is mine.
So all this and Daniel'sburdened, and he sets his heart

(01:27:34):
to understanding it and he fastsfor 21 days.
And we assume it's the angelGabriel, same one who talked to
him earlier in an earlierencounter that you had with him
in an earlier chapter, and hesays I was sent to you the first
day that you put your heart toknowing what these were.
But Israel's presently inbondage in Persia.

(01:27:59):
Okay, babylon has just lostpower, persia's taken over,
persia's now the controllinggeopolitical entity and the
Hebrews are underneath.
And that's who?
Daniel's underneath at thatpointical entity and the Hebrews
are underneath.
And that's who Daniel'sunderneath at that point.
So the angel Gabriel's comingin and now he's coming into the
spiritual principality, princeof Persia's domain, and there's

(01:28:19):
a conflict and he's wrestlingwith the angel Gabriel's,
wrestling with this angelicprincipality, fallen angelic
principality called the Princeof Persia, and they're wrestling
for 21 days and then thearchangel Michael, who's over
God's people, comes andintercepts and begins to wrestle
with the Prince of Persia.
And now Gabriel can be releasedto come and give this

(01:28:42):
revelation to Daniel.
So in that zone he tells Daniel,he says I've come to tell you
everything that's written in thetruth.
And I was like I've never seenthat before.
I've never seen that before.
So so I we know there'sheavenly books, we we know that

(01:29:03):
there are scribe angels.
We know that Malachi speaks ofGod telling angels about his
people who fear him in anungodly culture.
Go, get a scroll, I want towrite a scroll of remembrance
and then God puts our names onit and it's in heaven and it's

(01:29:25):
like a huge attaboy in front ofall the angels.
That's like legit, like yeah,so there's, there's books in
heaven light book of life, otherbooks, books full of our deeds,
all these other things.
Anything else than that is kindof speculative.
But but he says to him I'm, I'mcoming to tell you about that
which is written in the truth inheaven, and so it indicates

(01:29:47):
that there is this thing.
He doesn't call it a book, hedoesn't call it a scroll, he
calls it the truth that hasdocumentation in it, written in
it or or or some sort ofdetermined thing, and because
he's giving him informationabout the end times, meaning
it's already scripted out, yeah.

(01:30:08):
Okay, the Bible is akin to oneof those heavenly books.
It's the only book that we haveon the face of the planet that
carries the divine signature,and so when you read it, even
when you're slogging through thenumbers, you're like, oh my
gosh, how many zeros do I haveto read, did I?

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
get this in the other book.
That's right.

Speaker 3 (01:30:31):
Even when you're slogging through that there is a
very real element, that thereis a truth in heaven, of which
this thing reflects, that ishappening spiritually to me,
irrelevant to whether my naturalmind is processing, getting or
anything like that.
And so that washing of yourselfin the water of the Word, that

(01:30:53):
regular aligning my we weretalking about this yesterday
allowing the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God
Hebrews 4.12, to discern thethoughts and intents of the
heart, allowing Jesus, who isthe great high priest, and that
division language of cuttingaway the bone and the marrow,
the muscle and the joint andthat kind of stuff, which he

(01:31:13):
says is also discerning soul andspirit.
That's the role of the highpriest.
And so the idea is Jesus is thegreat high priest and I present
myself as an offering and heuses the word to do this with me
.
Wow, whether or not I get it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:31:30):
Whether or not my brain gets it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
I have to perceive it for it to be happening.

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
Correct.
And of course we wantrevelation, we want to get it,
we want to understand it.
So it's not saying that that'snot a thing, but it is to say
that there is much morehappening than what we think of
when we read Mark Twain, or whenwe read, you know, something on
the face of the planet or ablog, or you know there's much
more happening in that moment.
And so, the more that yousubmit yourself to reading the
Word of God, three thingsprimarily reading the Word of

(01:31:56):
God, prayer and fellowship withthe saints those are those three
things primarily, especiallythe go-between between brothers
and sisters.
Iron sharpens iron.
And that dynamic do not forsakethe assembling of yourselves,
especially as you see the dayapproaching, meaning the closer

(01:32:18):
we get to the end times, themore we're supposed to be in
church Can't get around it.
And so those three dynamics,the reading the scriptures,
being in prayer, and not justpersonal prayer alone with Jesus
, but corporate, where God istraining you not to pray
according to your own mind andyour own directions, but

(01:32:39):
according to a group ofbelievers together in a
direction, accomplishingsomething the will of the one on
the throne, administratively inprayer, that thing, and then
being with the will of the oneon the throne, administratively
in prayer, that thing, and thenbeing with the brothers and the
sisters, that will help developthe word Great Thank you for
that.
Well, noelle, this has been apleasure.

(01:32:59):
Sorry, terrence, we missed you.
And guys, zane gives his love,he's watching the babies, yep.
So grateful for you to be hereand be a part and grateful for
the relationship and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:19):
Yeah, thank you so much.
Thank you, thank you for havingme, thank you for helping my
husband create something that'sbeen really valuable for him,
and thank you on behalf of allthe listeners too.
I think that this message isreally important and I'm so
hopeful.

Speaker 3 (01:33:39):
Amen, praise God.
I'm glad we get to go to heaventogether.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
Yeah right, Me too.
All right guys, thanks, godbless you blood and oil podcast
is filmed and recorded by pastorjesse and zane in california
with terrence, on video callfrom the east coast.
We thank our supporters andplease be reminded to use your

(01:34:05):
own discernment, as the viewsand opinions expressed by the
hosts and guests may not reflectthose of other people,
institutions or organizations.
A variety of guests will joinus as we discuss modern events
through a biblical lens, sobuckle up and enjoy the ride.
Thanks to all of our supportersand praise God for the

(01:34:26):
opportunity to serve him in thisway.
We hope you have enjoyed thisepisode and pray for blessings
upon your day.
You.

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Call Me By My Name | A Testimony of Finding the True Jesus

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Call Me By My Name | A Testimony of Finding the True Jesus