Rise of the Supernatural | Conflict in the Age of Enchantment - Blood & Oil Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Intro (00:04):
In a time when faith can feel flat, distracted and
disengaged, the Blood and Oilpodcast cuts through the noise
to reveal the raw, unfilteredwork of the Holy Spirit.
Welcome to the Blood and Oilpodcast.

Pastor Jesse LaForce (00:24):
All right, welcome to uh blood and oil.
Um, this is uh episode five,yeah, I think.
And uh, we're just so gratefulthat you would come and be with
us as we talk and share.
And uh, zane and I were talkingearlier.
Um, there was an interview I waslistening to last year, uh, and

(00:46):
this gentleman mentioned um anidea called the rise of the age
of enchantment and in it he hetalks about um, we, our society,
western society, has moved fromum enlightenment in the
enlightenment era and thechallenge of preconceived

(01:08):
notions and the advent of thescientific method and all the
stuff that came out of theenlightenment era, and then we
move into an age ofindustrialization and then we
move into modernism, and then wemove into postmodernism and he
contends that we are moving intoan age of enchantment, as

(01:31):
people realize that thepostmodern philosophy and
ideologies that includes a wholebunch of stuff you know, like
relativism.
You know your truth, my truth,there's, there's no absolute
truth.
These, these kinds of thingsthat are that are not they
number one, they're false, butnumber two, they've got no

(01:52):
practical application in reality.
Like you know, I I believe I'msuperman.
That's great.
Go jump in front of a bus andsee what happens, right, you
know, um, that are that areinconsistent even with life.
Even though they, they are funto play with philosophically,
they they've got real no, or noreal application of real life

(02:13):
and and so he says that we'vemoved into this, um, age of
enchantment, and what it is isit's a recovery of the
supernatural and areinvigoration of excitement
concerning the unseen Right, andwe're seeing this.

(02:35):
You know, hollywood is goingfull bore after witches, and
after aliens, and after sciencefiction and after, after, you
know, the, the advent of the,the Marvel movies and the DC
movies and the superhero genre.
All of it points to people.

(02:56):
People like superheroes, peoplelike Harry Potter, they like
magic, they like thesupernatural, the, you know, the
Lord of the Rings all of thesethings point to, uh.
The reason why they do so well,is they point to a craving
that's there, that that peoplewant and that people desire,
true, and now you've got folkslike demi lovato, who are

(03:17):
full-blown channeling aliensfrom their home and and they're
not aliens, by the way um,channeling these
interdimensional beings whopresent themselves as aliens, uh
to to encounter people she'sgot in her home and and live
streaming it, and so the thiswhole thing points to a culture

(03:44):
that is moving more and more andmore to a hunger of the
supernatural.
And the truth is, is that theanti-supernatural bias that
we've been steeped in in theWest, it's not universal to the
earth.
Like the majority of the earthlives with a worldview and an

(04:05):
experiential structure.
Where there is ancestralspirits, there is these, these,
you know, lowercase g, so-calledgods in in their world.
And you know, uh, last night,at a bible college I was
teaching, and um, on the eastcoast of africa, which was taken

(04:27):
over by muslims, that entirezone is, especially the northern
portion of it, is, uh, ismuslim dominant and people who
publicly identify themselves asmuslim, um, if a child gets sick
, they ask the imam to pray orwhatever, and if it doesn't work

(04:48):
they go directly to the witchdoctor, right, yeah, and so.
So, even in those zones wherepublicly one thing holds sway,
they, they privately practicethese other things, and that's
the norm across the globe, thatthat interface with the unseen
realm is the norm across theglobe, sure, and right now we're

(05:12):
seeing a rise of um.
News about it is exploding.
The whole drone flap in newjersey, right, you know, that
whole thing is steeped in smokeand mirrors on.
Is it the government?
Is it, uh, is it a, an enemy onthe planet?
Is it supernatural?

(05:32):
Is it?
You know, all this other kindof stuff and and it's meant to
stoke and and provoke thisrising awareness of the
supernatural.
And and, biblically speaking,things don't get less
supernatural as the end getscloser.
Right, things get moresupernatural, absolutely, as the

(05:57):
end gets closer, absolutely.

Zane Wheeler (05:59):
So it's interesting Cause you're talking
about kind of thisjuxtaposition that we're coming
out of this postmodern era,cause I know that postmodernism
in a lot of ways is like sort ofa rational perspective of we,
we realistic, yeah, theempirical, the scientific right,
right, and maybe it's a postcovid, pre-covid or artifact of
some kind, where science neededto be at the forefront of

(06:21):
society during that time to pushforward certain things or
whatever.
But we're moving into a spacethat's almost completely
opposite of that is what you'resaying, that's what you're
getting at, correct, yeah?

and and into that I.
I think it's by design, I don'tthink it's, it's accidental.
Um, there, you and I have hadconversations about some
movements and growingpersonalities in the ufology
realm that when you look atthose conversations, it is being

(07:02):
drawn away from a alien,scientific-based idea.
In other words, this is analternate civilization or a
different civilization from adifferent planet, who's just
more evolved than we are, and sothey're millions or hundreds of

(07:25):
thousands of years moreadvanced than we are.
That that was the, the, theprimary idea being presented in
the ufo realm for a long time.
That was the dominant idea,which is totally scientific,
totally empirical, totally, andso to the point where you've

(07:46):
even got atheists who begin tobelieve in this theory called
panspermia, that we were plantedhere as a seed from another
planet, right, you know wehijacked a comet or an alien
civilization, and thesupernatural element that is

(08:12):
present in the UFO conversationhas been dumbed down To where it
is now that they're havingconversations in Congress about
multidimensional expression,right, which removes it from

(08:33):
simply evolutionary, darwinian,evolutionary presentation into
something entirely different.

Yeah, it's not just organic, Right yeah?

something entirely different.
Yeah, it's not just organic,right?
Yeah, and and and.
What that's done is it's beganto to shift the whole
conversation into they're notjust physical, natural things of
evolutionary process, but thepotential for this being a
spiritual phenomenon.
And that's on purpose.
Yeah, that is that is intended,because it it it sets the stage

(09:06):
for a one world religion.
That's coming, sure, which,biblically, is what we're
expecting as far as the the, thebook of revelation.

Yeah, so the powers that be are expecting the
book of revelation to play out,and so they're kind of
front-loading society withsupernatural ideologies in order
to catch, you know, to get infront of the things that are
coming down the pike.

Basically absolutely could be.
Um, you know, if you read thebook of revelation, we know that
there's a system coming, um,that is is going to be economic,
it's going to be spiritual andit's going to be, uh, political,
which includes military and allthat other kind of stuff, and I
believe that the enemy'sinvolved 100.

(09:51):
So the question is, are these,these things that are behind the
scenes that are pushing in thisdirection?
Are they doing so to try tobring the book of revelation to
pass, which is actually part ofthe conversation from some of
the names that we've talkedabout, where they've said that
there are evil powers that aretrying to fabricate, with men,

(10:18):
the book of Revelation.
And that's not what it actuallyis.
That's all soup, that's allsmoke and mirrors and you know
kind of further down the rabbithole than is necessary.
But what is present is that theenemy is pushing toward an end

(10:38):
and, as far as I believepresently, I think he thinks he
can win.
Yeah.
I think he thinks he can win.
I think he thinks he can winright, which is very similar to
what he did in the first centurywith jesus, where he saw an
opportunity, and firstcorinthians, chapter 2 tells us
if he had known what he wasdoing, he wouldn't have done it
right.
So there's obviously this, this, uh, ultimate military faint

(11:06):
maneuver by God over the demonicwhere they thought they had him
, and in turn he goes no, I gotyou.
And I believe in Satan'sarrogance and in Satan's pride.
He still believes he's got ashot in satan's pride.

He still believes he's got a shot.
And is this through, you know,orchestrating some kind of
deceptive propaganda towardhumanity, leading us in the
wrong direction, making us thinkwhat?
That we're at a different pointin revelation or not?
Or how do you think that he'splaying that out?

good question I, I think, I, I don't
know.
Yeah, um, if I were tospeculate and you know, be clear
, this is speculation yeah, likewhat's his play, right?
Yeah, I think that he's tryingto create a supernatural army
that will be released in thebook of Revelation.
It's pretty clear thatsomething like that is coming,

(12:00):
sure, that is coming Sure, andand that, in conjunction with
human counterparts, will be thething that will, will
precipitate this.
You know, final showdown battlebetween heaven and the demonic.
Yeah, okay, the Gog and Magogwar in Ezekiel is is pretty

(12:29):
crazy.
I was talking with uh pastorsteve last week and uh, derrick
gilbert references this that the, the word travelers is used in
ezekiel and these travelers willno longer be able to travel
from the east of the jordan.
I think it is, um, in this gogand magog war, this final like
kind of showdown war, and andthere may be two gog and magog

(12:53):
battles, depending on how youread the book of ezekiel and and
compare that to the book ofrevelation, right, but in in
ezekiel references the travelersand that's actually a term for
supernatural beings who go fromthis realm to that realm
regularly Interesting, and sothere's this apparent inability

(13:18):
in the Gog Magog war that Godultimately wins where he shuts
down their ability to get intothis place.

Yeah.

Pastor Jesse LaFor (13:25):
Indefinitely Okay, which is interesting.
And scholars have typically, Iguess, looked at the traveler
term, didn't dig into it, didn'tlook at the history of it, the
etymology and all the stuffthat's behind it, and have
typically thought well, that'sthose who travel the trade
routes Like terrestrialtravelers.
Yeah, Like the King's RoadBecause there are trade routes

(13:48):
that are well-known, you know,the Silk Road, these kinds of
things that are well-known traderoutes in the ancient Near East
, the Coastal Road, the King'sRoad, these other things and
their assumption was oh, thatmeans that it's going to be so
bad, nobody can take that roadanymore, right?
But mike heiser did somedigging and their this term is

(14:16):
linked to some supernatural dnot not deities, but beings and
attached to their ability totravel, and I and I think it's
from from the realm of the deadinto the realm of the living,
okay, and so it would, you know,be dimensional.
Yeah, you know, portal, all thatkind of stuff interesting yeah,

(14:37):
so I I think what the devil isdoing is, I think he's setting
up um deception that he hascoming, and we know, according
to 2 Thessalonians, that thereis a great deception that's
coming and that is, inparticular, geared to reveal

(14:58):
what it is that we love.
When you look at the citationby Paul, it says that this great
delusion, this great deception,is sent amongst those who
refused to receive a love of thetruth.
Right, and so, first, the waythat you stay away from it is

(15:19):
you love the truth.
Yeah.
And truth is not a proposition.
It's not a matter of two plustwo equals four.
Truth is a person, right.
His name is Jesus, amen, and sothose who love the truth will
be preserved from this, butthose who love anything other
than the truth will fall forthis deception Right, and, in

(15:41):
particular, it creates a greatfalling away from the church.
Right and, in particular, itcreates a great falling away
from the church Mm-hmm Rightwhich gives way to the
revelation of the AntichristMm-hmm.
So I think that that's what'spresently happening.
I think there's this deceptionthat's rising in the earth, and
the need then is discernment.

(16:02):
Yeah, the need then is to beable to judge what's real,
what's not.
And the tendency for folks likehaving a conversation with
someone the other night on thephone who came out of the New
Age world one of the errors isyou come out of the New Age
world, you become a Christian.
Come out of the new age world,you become a christian.

(16:25):
And if you're not grounded in agood local fellowship with good
teaching and leaders etc.
And and you know that, thatlocal church expression you will
either go full-blownanti-supernatural, yeah, or you
will go full-blown falsesupernatural right that exists
in the church today already,false supernatural right that

(16:48):
exists in the church todayalready.
And so where's the balance?

yeah, where's the balance yeah, that's the context
that new agers are sort ofliving within anyway is that you
know, life is spiritual, rightand with that comes immense
supernatural um experience.
You know, and, and many newagents have experienced those
kinds of those very things,because they're very accessible
in New Agers, because of therituals, the meditations, the

(17:10):
practices that bring about thosekinds of experiences,
psychedelic trips, whatever itmight be.
And so for myself, especially,like getting saved, we were
coming off the back.
I mean, we had, we had probablydone, we had probably had an
ayahuasca trip, like less than ayear prior to being saved.
So it was like that changes you, you know, it changes your

(17:32):
worldview immensely.
So when you come into this newcontext of, okay, I feel like
I've felt, I feel like I'veexperienced spiritual truth in
Jesus right, and I know I have,it's a deep knowing.
But like, how does that nowapply to the tools that I've
been equipped with over theselast years of being in the new
age?
You know, and how do I doChristianity from that context?

(17:53):
Well, I either go full boreinto, like you said, mysticism
and those kinds of things,because that's all I know, or I
see them as evil.
You know metaphysics, whateverit is, and I go the opposite
direction, and that's not righteither.
So there's this balance you'retalking about.
I think too, it has to bebiblically based, a hundred
percent.
What is the Bible?
How does the Bible talk aboutthe spiritual realm Right, the

(18:17):
heavenly realm Right, and howcan I adopt that into my
paradigm?

Right and allow it to sanitize and change.
I mean, we spent a long timetalking about okay, what?
What are the dangers of words?
And you know, because a lot ofthe deception nowadays is using
words and meaning somethingdifferent and the, the
undiscerning person hears thesame word and thinks that

(18:44):
there's a connection oh, I agreewith that, but because they
mean something different by it.
Actually, there is no agreementthere, and so you know, you've
got a real experience.
That thing really happened.
How do you now judge that,discern that and be true to what

(19:07):
it is?
That is your life, that'screated, the testimony that you
have.
Yeah, and walk into a church.
And you know, one of the thingsthat we've been dealing with is
look, we've got a lot of folkscoming.
You know, we're praying for one.
The other night, at a prayermeeting, I think your wife was
there, and Crystal falls out ofher hand.

(19:29):
Yeah, right, like, okay, nowgame on, like, how are you going
to lead this person who's goingto give their life to Jesus?
Number one they've got to getrid of the bad stuff and now
they've got to walk in the rightstuff, and they're going to
bring baggage with themselvesand they're going to conflate

(19:51):
ideas.
Yeah.
Which, if it's not cleared outproperly, will cause confusion.
Yeah, and there's not a lot offolks out there that got the
chops to do that.

Yeah, there's not.
Yeah, I think, the deificationof self chops to do that?

Intro (20:07):
Yeah, there's not yeah.

I think the deification of self is the hard
line you know early on, becauseit's really it's easy to see
when that's happening.
You know it might not be easyfor the individual to see it in
themselves when they're speakingthat language or leaning in
that direction if they've beennewly saved.
But it's easier for Christianswho are discerning to be able to
see when that kind of stuff iscoming up, because it's all
about submission you know, andthat that is not what the new
age they don't.

(20:33):
That's the last thing a new agewants is to submit to anything.
You know that's a deificationof self, because we have this,
this all powerful spark ofspirituality inside of us and it
is pure and it is, you know, itis what needs to be at the
forefront, but you know, it'sthere.
There's such a mix of, you know, this self-aggrandizing, you

(20:53):
know psychological trip that wego on, mixed with this like
affirmation that we get from thespiritual realm, right from the
you know, the counterfeitspirits, or rather the
counterfeit spirituality, thatspirits are sort of interacting
with us and using that contextof, yes, keep going, keep
manifesting, keep ascending.
Right, you are a star seed,right.

(21:15):
Right, you are from thePleiades and this part of you is
trying to come to the forefront.
Yeah, so, continue with yourspiritual practices and
meditation and manifesting yourdream life, because this
pleiadian part of you is comingto the forefront.
So that's like I think that thenew age has been marketing that

(21:35):
for a long time, this star seedum approach and it it really
paved the way, I think, in a lotof ways, for this new age of
enchantment you're talking about, because, gosh, I mean what?
Was it 2021 when the Tic Tacvideo came out?
I think somewhere around there2017.
Was it 17?
It was before COVID, oh.
I thought, it was after COVIDfor some reason.
No, there were three.

(21:55):
Oh, the Senate stuff or theHouse stuff happened after COVID
.

Exactly yeah.

The Tic Tac was 17 , was 2017.
Three videos.
It was the tic-tac, the gambleand the go fast.
So prior to that, right, likeI'm huge art bell fan, shout out
coast to coast, am back in theday band like.
So always been into this stuffand the consensus was always the
government's going to keep thisfrom us for two reasons because
a it would cause total panic ifthey told us what was really
going on in the skies.
Ontological shock, I think it'scalled.
Okay, yeah.
And then B how are they gettinghere?

(22:30):
What are these craft?
What are the propulsion systemsbehind these craft?
And then we figure out,actually, that there's these
propulsion systems that aren'tfossil fuels.
Why aren't we using those inour homes?
They're like this lash back.
And then, thirdly, probably thewhy have you kept it from us
for so long?
Here's a bunch of lawsuitstoward the government, you know.
So these three real big reasonsto keep it from us.

(22:51):
But now this shift into okay,here they are right, these
things are real.
We don't know what they are.
We have bodies, we have craft,we have technology, and we've
had it for a long time.
And now we're letting you knowwhy.
You know they're paving the wayfor something.

Yeah, and you know, just to be clear, you
know, we know that this is apsyop, right, it is a demonic
deception.
And what actually has substanceand what doesn't have substance
is up in the air.
What actually has substance andwhat doesn't have substance is

(23:27):
up in the air.
What will actually havesubstance and what doesn't
actually have substance is yetto be determined, right?
So, eyes wide open, walkinginto it, discerning,
understanding what's going on,being able to, to speak to it,
because it, it's, it's there,it's in the culture.
It's happening.
It is shifted from, uh,conspiracy theory into into

(23:48):
culture.
Yeah, the other things that areuh, arising is these
conversations in the occulttalking about 2025 being the
year that the, these, themasters, begin to reveal
themselves.
Sure, certain folks in theufology realm talking about 2026
being a huge shift.
Others talking aboutsomething's coming in 2027.

(24:10):
It's all shifting for the, thenaturalization of supernatural
manifestation, and whatever itsface is, yeah, it, you know some
of it's going to be the idea ofthe old gods have come back.
Some of it's, you know, goingto be we're, you know science
fiction, we're, we're fromanother planet.

(24:32):
That whatever, okay, whatevermask it picks to wear, the point
is to get people into anopenness to the supernatural,
right, so that this one worldreligion comes and a being who
comes and says I'm God, worshipme.

(24:54):
The planet goes.
Yep, we're going to do that.
And right now I was reading ablog post the other day.
We've got these revivals thatare hitting these college
campuses, which is fantastic andglorious.
We've got you know, was it7,000 baptisms in Southern
California a couple weeks ago,or 1,700?

(25:15):
I mean, some crazy number.
We've got this revival ofinterest in Christianity.
This revival of interest inChristianity.
We've got these people comingto Christianity in droves.
And this post I read thisgentleman he's talking about.
He says these people aregetting curious about the gifts

(25:35):
of the Holy Spirit.
Right, and so what's going tohappen is the enemy is going to
step into that, because thereare false manifestations that
are present in the church today.
Yeah, but there's the realstuff that's present in the
church today also, right, and inthat zone, the devil's raising

(25:56):
his head.
The demonic is beginning toshow itself, right?
One of the conversationsTerrence and I had was the Miami
Mall the, the Miami mallincident that happened like two
years ago.
Yeah, he hit me up immediately.
He was like yo, what's up withthis and you know and and and
again, psyop smoking mirrors.
You know, I I don't.

(26:18):
I don't want listeners to to toget the impression that all of
it has substance.
Right, it doesn't.
And to get the impression thatall of it has substance, it
doesn't.
And that's actually part ofthat's the nature of the thing.
A lot of it's counterfeit.
Well, yeah, and you begin tochase your tail in circles and
the demonic just sits in theback and goes cool, they're

(26:38):
distracted, let's go do what wegotta do.
Yeah, there you go.
Like.
We saw that at our family camplast year, where some young
people were were entertainingthese things, and one of them
came inside with me in my homeand talked with me and I was
like 99 of what you're sharingwith me is smoke and mirrors.
And I'm gonna tell you whathappened.

(26:59):
You got this thing, that, thatthat manifests and gets you
chasing down a rabbit trail, andit doesn't even have to do much
.
Your own imagination takes overand the next thing you know,
you're way off reservation.

Yeah.

Come back to Jesus, focus on the Lord.
That stuff isn't important,that kind of stuff, right.
But what's happening is, you'vegot this rise of the demonic.
Yeah, what's going to benecessary in the church is the
rise of the real kingdom thatdisplaces the inferior kingdom,

(27:34):
right?
Right, because if we don't havea way to displace these things,
people are going to go chasinglying signs and wonders.
Exactly, people already gochasing lying signs and wonders.
Exactly, people already gochasing lying signs and wonders.
People chase real signs andwonders.
Jesus himself said it.
He said you're only seeking forme because I fed you with

(27:55):
multiple loaves, from two loaves.
That's the only reason whyyou're here.
And then he gave them arevelation that was hard for
them to swallow I am the breadfrom heaven, eat my flesh, drink
my blood.
And they're like, yeah, that'stoo hard, we're out and so
chasing signs and wonders.
The biblical model is believersaren't supposed to chase signs

(28:17):
and wonders.
Signs and wonders follow truebelievers.
We are supposed to be the thing, the touch point where heaven
meets, meets earth, and that, inbreaking of the kingdom of god,
happens where we are and thegospel is demonstrated, right?
So what do you do?

(28:37):
The?
The devil's rising the, the,the, the interest in the
supernatural.
In particular.
We've had two movies hit theairways the Show Me your Glory,
that Jamie was in.
That will be released forpublic consumption at some point
, but another one by a guy onCBN Christian Broadcasting

(29:03):
Network.
He's got a podcast too.
I forgot his name, but he justreleased a movie.
It's about miracles.
Cool, you've got Sean McDowell,who's a huge name in the
Christian world and apologetics,talking about miracles.
Yeah.
All this supernatural stuff ison fire.
In the podcast realm right,everybody wants to talk about
the woo-woo and so what do youdo?

(29:27):
And this blog that I wasreading this message.
He was like you got to have thereal stuff.
Yeah, because there's a lot offalse stuff out there and the
only answer is to have the realstuff.
And if, if you do not have achristianity that has the real

(29:47):
stuff, you're going to be seenas obsolete by the people who
are chasing false stuff, whetherdemonic or whether false
manifestations in the church,which you know overlap.
So the age of atheism is goingto come to a close right the,

(30:09):
the this.
There is no god, there is nosupernatural realm, there is no
this, this intenselymaterialistic, this is all that
there is and this is all that wesee is, is going to crash into
the reality of no, this is notall there is.
This is not all.
We see, craig Keener, one ofthe premier scholars in the

(30:31):
Christian world, did a twovolume work called miracles.
That's huge.
You know 600 page each tomes.
You're talking.
You know 1200 pages orsomething like that, on present
day, documented miracles in theearth, in the Christian world,
the christian world.
Wow, right, we in the westthink that miracles are rare

(30:52):
globally.
They're not rare, right,they're, they're not rare at all
.
Right now, there is a falsemiracle and there's a real
miracle, right, real miracle iswhen the kingdom of god gets
involved and there's ademonstration of power.
A false miracle is some sort ofa parlor trick or deception
that the enemy does.
That may actually even be atrue healing, but it's a true

(31:16):
healing from the removal of aninfection that they put there
first.

Yeah, it reminds me of, like the David Blaines
and the Christian angels who are, who are openly a cult.
Yeah, they're open to cultoccultists and it's like, well,
you know, how did solomon usedto work with the jinn and then
these kinds of things you know,it's like this kind of I, you
know, you go into partnershipand to league with these things
and, yeah, metaphysical thingswill manifest, yep, but it's not

(31:40):
of god no, it's the.

Janice and john breese are the, the two
court magicians for pharaoh.
There you go, yeah, and mosescomes in and they're able to
reproduce a couple of the signsthat god gives moses to produce.
But eventually moses produces,they produce a couple of snakes
and moses produces a biggersnake and moses's snake eats the
smaller snakes.
Right, and that's how we dealwith this.

Absolutely yeah, that's how we deal with this
absolutely yeah, that's howwe're dealing with this.
So this movement into so likeI'm thinking back, like over the
you know, the last 20 years orso, of what society has promoted
right and in media, and youknow, for a long time you have
especially hollywood inhollywood, exactly, yeah, and
even, like you know, the hboshows, uh, television in general
, whatever else, yeah, exactlyWhatever was supposed to be out

(32:27):
there was out there, andwhatever they wanted us to begin
to entertain was definitelywhat was on the airwaves.
A lot of it was vampire stuff,the werewolf stuff, the
shape-shifting stuff, thecryptid stuff.
And then it started to movemore into the superhero stuff,
right, like you were talkingabout, right.
So what that does is it shiftsus out of okay, this is kind of

(32:49):
spooky and fun, like werewolves,vampires I like this.
It, it's demonic, for sure, andit's allowing that kind of
imagery into the psyche, right,and so that's a plus for them,
right.
But then it moves into a placewith superheroes oh, maybe I can
do this kind of stuff, right.
And then so it starts that youstart to entertain these ideas
of, okay, what is human humanitycapable of?
Yeah, okay.

(33:10):
And then we start to see the,the stage, magicians and these
kinds of guys that we were justdiscussing, doing these kinds of
things, you performing thesesigns and wonders that are false
.
And then we start to get intothis, this realm of, okay, maybe
I can do that kind of stuff,right?
How does it happen?
Well, it's easy for the demonicrealm to reproduce this stuff
and counterfeit this stuff, aswe were just saying a moment ago
.
But the key here is that we'removing into a space where this

(33:32):
stuff is becoming mainstream,and so they wanted to get to
front load it and get ahead ofit by saying, yeah, this stuff
exists, watch, you know, we canall do it, but it's not Jesus,
right, yeah?

You know we can all do it, but it's not.
Jesus right, yeah, so Jesus isthe antidote for sure, of course
, I think the interesting thingabout the Marvel Universe thing
right For anyone who's actuallythinking and paying attention
the primary thing that they werepushing was the idea of a
multiverse.
Oh yeah, that is the corecomponent that they are pushing,
and it's the same exactlanguage that's presently coming

(34:05):
out of Silicon Valley.
Quantum chips are calledquantum chips because they so.
A standard supercomputer islinear.
It's got to do one problem andthen another problem, and
another problem and anotherproblem, sequentially, Okay.
And so there's these hugeproblems, that that that
mathematically they're fasterthan humans, but because they're

(34:29):
linear, they're still not asfast as a quantum computer.
And, to my understanding,essentially, how does the
quantum computer do this?
Dumps it into some realm thatwe can't see or perceive, and
then comes back with an answer,and it's solving things in
seconds that would take our oldschool supercomputers from the

(34:52):
80s and 90s millions of years tofigure out.
Right, right is a dimensionality, a multiverse, a serrated not
serrated, striateddimensionality.
And we're Christians.

(35:14):
We know that there's adimensional spectrum, duh.
We know that there aredimensional entities.
The Bible calls them angels anddemons.
Sure, duh.
And they have in the, theMarvel universe, this, the, the.
How did they?
How did they defeat the big bad?
How did they defeat Thanos?
The magic user, the sorcerer,had to go and explore all the

(35:42):
options in the multiverse tofigure out what timeline it was
that they would have a solutionin which they beat thanos.
Wow, so that's the whole premise.
Wow, and these exact kinds ofthe, the philosophical basis for
that, that exact ideology isbeing.
That exact ideology is beingtalked about at Stanford.

(36:05):
It's being talked about inSilicon Valley.
It's being talked about on theupper echelons of the scientific
community.
I remember a couple years ago,there was a girl who had she

(36:26):
believed that she had skippedtimelines when she took a shower
and she wrote an article that anewspaper carried about how to
switch your timelines so thatyou can have a different life.
Wow, because her contention wasmy life was crap before this

(36:48):
and then, after this moment, mylife is now fantastic.
And the thing that keyed heroff was she was on an airplane
flight that her friends told hershe wasn't on.
Okay, like a mandela type thingsomething yeah and, and so her.
Her conclusion was I I must havefigured out how to switch
timelines in this multiversething.
It's a logical jump Right right.

(37:09):
And the crazy part is you beginto drift into these weird
theories that seem scientificRight and you're like bro, it
takes more faith to believe inthat than it does to believe
totally in christianity, in theclaims of of christianity.
Yeah, and to joe rogan's pointrecently is is like look, he's

(37:33):
realizing in in his explorationof data and stuff that the, the
idea of the universe creatingitself, or, um, you know the,
the scientific theories of theuniverse.
We know the universe is aninternal, so the other, only
other option is that it createditself.

(37:54):
It's an illusion, or somethingcreated it right.
And creating itself iscompletely illogical.
But that's where science goes.
Illusion is obviously not true,because more than one person is
experiencing the reality.
The only other logical viableexplanation is that outside of
that, there was a first cause,causer Right, intelligence,

(38:16):
behind it.
Right and so he's been exploringthat and he has said it takes.
You know he's like Christianityasks you to believe in miracles
and evolution asks you tobelieve in one huge miracle.
You know, everything came fromnothing.
Yeah, absolutely.
And his point is ultimately,you have to have a supernatural

(38:38):
worldview at some point to makesense of anything.
Yeah right, whether it's thatone or that one.

So to use this.
It's using this against us.
Obviously the jig is up.
Life is spiritual.
It manifests as supernaturality.
You know supernaturalism, ifyou will.
You know supernatural thingsare real, you know, um, and if
we can get in front of that andcause the people to accept a
demonic deception of whatsupernatural reality is versus a

(39:09):
biblical, right, gospel based,hundred percent, yeah view of,
of, of the supernatural, thenwe're in business.
100%, yeah, yeah, so it'soptics.
Yeah, it is.

And, like we said earlier, psyop.
The whole thing is a psyop.
There you go.
You know what's substantial andwhat isn't remains to be seen,
you know.
So you know we'll see.
We'll see what's substantialand what isn't, but it is
absolutely a psyop.
To some degree, it is anattempt to get into the soul and

(39:41):
get the soul to start thinkingand chasing things.
The importance of what's coming, though, is the ability to live
in the supernatural.

Yes.

And in the right supernatural.
So Revelation 2.2 says to thefirst church, the seven churches
that it opens to, it says youhave disdained evil men and you
have tested those apostles whocall themselves apostles who are
not.
So they're, and it's anaccolade.

(40:14):
This church does get a rebukeand the rebuke is.
But this I have against you.
You've, last year, left yourfirst love, so there's a danger,
yeah, in testing, right, butthe clear accolade is that those
people who've called themselvesapostles and and you can
extrapolate that to prophets,evangelists, pastors, teachers,

(40:35):
pastors, teachers, christians,to the whole thing, paul's
exhortation do not despiseprophetic utterances, test all
things.
Hold fast to that which is good.
We are called to test, we arecalled to discern and right now,
on one side are those who saydiscernment ministries are

(40:56):
giving the church a black eye.
They're kind of right, thereisn't a place of.
We want to be very, verycareful of giving the church a
black eye.
We don't want to unnecessarilyoffend people, right.
But on the other side there iswe are also supposed to protect

(41:17):
from wolves yeah and we'recalled to test and called to
call out, and that's true also,and so there there is a dividing
line.
That's needed, um and and soliving in the supernatural
requires that.
And one of the reasons why Iwanted to interview Jamie was

(41:37):
because this is not his world.
Yeah right, he's notPentecostal charismatic, he's
not a part of that realm.
He's seen supernatural things,but when it comes to what are
typically considered churchesthat move in that stuff
Pentecostal charismatic, he'snot a part of that at all.

(41:59):
And the Holy Spirit rebukes himand says stop asking me to heal
him.
You heal him, and the biblicalprecedent for that is you've
been given everything you needfor life and godliness in Christ
.
Now ultimately, 1ians, chapter12, every gift of the spirit is
given according to the will ofgod.

(42:20):
There's a false cessationistargument.
Cessationists are those whobelieve that the gifts of the
holy spirit have ceased.
There's a false argument thatsays the reason why those gifts
that existed in the firstcentury don't exist today is
because those who claim to behealers can't go in and heal a

(42:40):
hospital full of people andclear it out.
The problem is is that the trueexercise of the gifts of the
Holy Spirit has never beenaccording to the will of the
person exercising them.
Right, it's always beenaccording to the will of God,
first and foremost.
Right, right, it is 1Corinthians, 12, chapter and
verse.

(43:00):
All of these manifestations aregiving according to the will of
the Spirit.
So there is a kingdom dynamic.
It's not willy-nilly.
You can't just go, run off andstart healing whoever it is that
you want, and we've seen thisin the charismatic Pentecostal
church.
People get excited and theystart praying over all the sick
people.
Well, if you got 15 sick peopleon the line and one gets healed

(43:22):
, what's the math?
You prayed for 14 that itwasn't God's will to heal.
Yeah, right, you can't getaround that.
Yet they're popping off andexcited People do the same thing
when it comes to engaging thedemonic realm.
They start popping off andexcited People do the same thing
when it comes to engaging thedemonic realm.
They start popping off andcommanding and binding and
loosing and all this other kindof stuff.

(43:42):
And you're doing it apart fromknowing what the will that is
seated on the throne wants.
And it works when it'saccording to the will of the one
seated on the throne.
And it doesn't work, meaningyou're just popping off, when
you're doing it according toyour own impulse or your maybe
your own zeal, and you know yourown excitement, which you know
there's there.
God gives grace for that.

(44:03):
Uh, you know a dumb kid whogets a, a football and throws it
through a window.
Well, you know, in zeal, okay,grace right, but operating in
the supernatural is going to beabsolutely important.
And when Jamie shared histestimony with his son, I was
shouting at my TV watching it.

(44:24):
Yeah, because I'm watching asGod is independently teaching
people who've got no business inthis realm in this realm.
Learn how to walk in this realmbecause of its necessity in the
final days.

Right, right.
So it brings up an interestingpoint because you have.
So I'm an everyday guy.
Let's up the ante and just sayI'm an atheist.
I'm waking up one day and I'msaying okay, the zeitgeist is
changing completely,supernatural is in.
I'm scared of this, though.
I don't know how to start.
How do I become supernatural?
Right, I might gravitate towardoccult practices because

(45:05):
they're quick, they're easy.
Those are things that I candevote a little time to and get
a lot of results out of, becausethey work with the demonic
realm and the demonic are thereto make things happen, make
things move.
Because they work with thedemonic realm and the demonic
are there to make things happen,make things move.
Obviously, I can go in the otherdirection and start to submit
to Christ and accept him into myheart and trade my life with
his, but I don't, from myperspective as that everyday man

(45:27):
, like, how does it start withsubmission?
Right, well, it starts withsubmission because Christ needs
a vessel to work through,someone who is Wants yeah,
exactly, wants, exactly.
And so we're choosing him andwe have partnership with him.
We create a relationship rightby connecting with him and
learning of his character anddoing his will takes a little

(45:51):
time and it takes effort, right,I want something quick.
But where does authority, ourauthority in Christ, and what we
can do with the power of theHoly Spirit?
How does that contend with thisother occult authority, right,
which is again like I was sayingearlier, is this deification of
self where I'm the magician,I'm the high priest, I'm the

(46:13):
mage who can actually makethings happen in the physical
realm, manifest spiritually?
How is that different, similarto the authority in Christ and
where's the line there?
Can we talk a little bit aboutthat?

Vastly different.
The authority that's happeningin the occultic realm is
according to that law and thatsphere that belongs to the zone
that the demonic is in controlover.
Okay, and there there is apartnership.
Even that happens there.
You, you've got this kind ofspectrum of of, uh, process of

(46:47):
involvement with a demonic, andon, on one end of the spectrum,
you have agreement or, I'm sorry, curiosity.
Yeah, so this, this peaking ofthe you know, oh, I'm gonna play
a ouija board.
Oh, that was fun, right, or oh,I'm gonna try this spell from
this book, oh well, it worked.
And and so you have this, thiscuriosity component, and then,

(47:08):
sliding on that scale in in themiddle, you have an agreement
component, and biblically it'sthe idea of a covenant, and the,
the term that we would assignto it, is the word amen.
The reason why amen is soimportant is because, literally,
it translates to I agree, ormay it be so, and so in that
agreement begins to the, thisrelational sort of contract, and

(47:33):
then, on, far under thatspectrum, you get full blown
possession.
And, by the way, I don't thinkthat those who are like the dude
running around in the tombs inthe Bible, like I, don't see
that as full blown possession.
That's an extreme case ofdemonization, and the word
possession is kind of a misnomer.

(47:54):
The Greek word is is, and itmeans demonized, it means to
have a demon, so so that thatdude is still to some degree not
fully given to that spirit.
Okay, because jesus steps onthe shore and he, he, I don't
know what happened in the in thespirit realm, my, my hunch,

(48:16):
that this, the part of him thatwas still there, saw light in
that direction and said I'mrunning that way Because when he
throws himself at the feet ofJesus and the demons begin to
manifest, it's almost likethey're surprised, caught
unaware.
They don't like they're.
They're surprised, caughtunaware.
They don't like they'reresponsible.
Whoa, what?
Like?
The way I've thought about itis like the dude is a suitcase

(48:41):
full of spirits, yeah, and heruns and throws himself at the
feet of Jesus and then thesuitcase pops open and the
things inside go.
That's almost the feel of it.
Okay, yeah, I believefull-blown possession is where
the will is like I'm yours, yeah, do whatever you want, right.
And you get these real scarymoments where the human is

(49:04):
absolutely there in acting andit's in conjunction with a
spirit, and those ones arescarier.
Yeah, those ones are, those arepower movers.
So, at any rate, the, the, themechanics kind of look the same,
but the substance is entirelydifferent.
Sources different 100.
Yeah, um, interesting is infirst corinthians, chapter 12,

(49:26):
paul tells them.
He says, he says I want to talkto you about the pneumaticon is
the term, and it's, it'sspirituals, and we imply the
word gifts.
So if you read it in English,it is I want to talk to you,
brothers, about spiritual gifts.
And then he makes a statement,he qualifies it.
He says I want you to know howyou, when you were led astray to

(49:50):
mute idols however it was thatyou were led anyone speaking by
the Spirit of God cannot sayJesus is accursed, and likewise,
it is only by the Spirit of Godthat someone can say Jesus is
Lord.
Now, if you think about whathe's doing, is he's contrasting
what was happening in themystery religions with what's
now happening in the church.
And he doesn't tell them whenit looks like this, it's not God

(50:14):
.
When it acts like this, it'snot God, he tells them.
The first point of discernmentis doctrine and submission Right
.

Submission.

No one can say Jesus is Lord, which is
correct doctrinal confession,except by the Spirit, and that
is a confession of submission,right.
Then he goes on.
There's a couple more.
The gift of discernment is anda lot of people think that the
gift of discernment meansdetermining types of demons, and
that's not what the passagemeans Discernment of spirits.

(50:49):
Yeah, discerning spirits is, inthe context, more an idea of
discerning the source of amanifestation there, that's the
lord good, that's flesh, exactlywhat I'm getting demonic, yeah,
okay yeah, um, it can beextrapolated to determine type
of spirit.
But the whole, the wholeconversation on types of spirit,

(51:12):
yeah, gets weird in in thepresent deliverance realm, yeah,
which 99 of it is isgobbledygook it's.

It is the name and the time it came into the
uh-huh it goes back this manygenerations and did it like all
of that.

I was teaching in the bible school
last night and and I drew outtwo different spheres, okay, and
one sphere.
One sphere is the law and,according to Paul, the demonic
beings are the slave mastersinside of this system called the
law.
The law itself is good, as itreflects the character of God,

(51:50):
but the way that those demonicslavers work inside of that
system is they get to executeslavery over everyone who's a
sinner.
Yeah, so if you were in thatsystem called the law and you
were not a sinner, these beingsare not slavers over you, right,
but if you are in that systemand the first law is not the law

(52:12):
of moses, the first law is toadam don't eat, which he
violates right, so humanity iswithin that all of humanity is
governed underneath this idea ofthis sphere that these these
beings are in control of.
Okay, and the reason why they'rein control is because adam gave
up his authority and now theenemy devil himself is the top

(52:35):
dog in that authority structure.
Got it?
Jesus enters into thatauthority structure, into that
thing called the law, thatsystem, that sphere called the
law, but because he's not asinner.

They couldn't touch him.

They can't touch him, right to the father,
right and, and you know,garners 30 years of love and
obedience and sacrifice andcompletely fulfilling every
character requirement of god, sothat when he dies, we call that
righteousness.

(53:07):
When he dies, it's an illegaldeath.
Right, it's not a legal death,it's illegal.
Therefore, death can't hold himlegally Right and he breaks it.
Sorry, this doesn't apply to me.
Yeah, he establishes a newsphere Romans chapter 8, called
the law of the spirit of lifeand liberty in Christ.

(53:30):
Right, and now believers get towalk in that zone, in the
deliverance realm.
These spirits keep trying tomake Christians operate
according to that thing.
And I'm like you don't belongto that anymore.
I don't need to know your name.
There's no condemnation inChrist, 100% and your whole well

(53:54):
, that person legally belongs tome, not in the blood of Jesus.
Right, right, sorry, right, andthen, practically speaking, in
sanctification.
Our problem as Christians iswhen we go to try to live back
underneath that stupid law.
Yeah.
And it's the reason why Paul islike why do you go back to
observing days and observe don'teat this and don't taste that

(54:17):
and don't wear these clothes anddon't?
He's like are you, are youseeking to be subject back to a
law of a yoke of slavery again,underneath that right structure?
And he identifies them asstoichia.
Which is this, this term for um, elementary, first things,
rulers, but it's a demonic term,fallen angelic term In that

(54:42):
deliverance zone, these thingskeep drawing people back into
that.
We do have one case where Jesusseeks to know its name, but
there's something else happeningin that text.
It's not because he needs toknow the name legally in order
for this, that and the next.
My thoughts on it are irrelevantfor our time right now, but

(55:03):
that's one instance, and so it'sa one-off, not the norm, yeah,
and so, at any rate, in all ofthat zone, what happens is the
demonic tries to lure us backinto their legality.
Yes, and I don't belong to yourlegality, bro, right, like I'm
not a part of that legalityanymore.

(55:23):
I've seen demons go out whenpeople get hugged.
My practice is to shut thespirit down, command it to be
quiet, to leave the person alone, and then find the will of the
person, because that's thenumber one thing.
That's where the authoritycomes in, 100%.
If they will say yes to Jesus,then I will begin to operate.

(55:47):
Can I cast the demonic out ofthe person without them saying
yes to Jesus?

Intro (55:51):
Yes.

However, jesus says when an unclean
spirit leaves a man, it goes anddoes the thing.
It comes back seven days laterwith seven other spirits worse
than itself, right, and it findsthe man swept and in order but
empty yeah, no, holy spirit,yeah no relationship with christ
, right, which is putting themin a worse position.

(56:14):
Empty house, yep.
And then it says that thatspirit, and the seven with it,
reenter.
The dude in his final state isworse than the first day.
So I had a woman in Oakland, inSabrani Park, with Bible school
.
We were preaching the gospel inthe corner and she walks up to
me and she's like I got ademonic, cussing demon preacher,
you go cast it out of me.
And she's like all up in mygrill and I'm like nope, she

(56:43):
didn't want to be free, so I'lltalk to the person, I'll shut
the spirits up, I'll find theperson.
Okay, I'm not talking to you, Iwant the person, I'll find the
person.
So, okay, here's the offer, thegospel you got to want to be
free.
You need to be willing to turnyour back on those things and
say yes, the Lord, and if you'lldo that, we can get you free
right now.

The gospel is just a equalizer, right, more than
that.
Well, in the, in this realm ofchaos and deception, that is
what we know aboutsupernaturalism, right, that
it's like humans trying tocontend with the supernatural
realm.
We're completely lost.
Yeah, right, right, but itisn't until the light of Christ
comes through, where we canactually see.
Okay, we can start to makesense of this.

(57:22):
Put things in order, see whathas authority over other things,
right?
What kingdom is actually incharge?
Right?
So the person waking up out ofatheism, the person waking up
out of the new age, the person,or rather the person waking up
out of materialism?
Right, just as simple as thatwho's moving into the
supernatural and trying to learnabout it?

Moving toward the occult, is
backsliding, is moving into, youknow, subjugation essentially
to yeah, they were alreadysubjugated.
You're just trading the natureof your subjugation.

Exactly so.
You're moving toward the lightof Christ so you can actually
step into a kingdom and be aco-heir in that kingdom and have
authority in that way.
But, for the sake of argument,having this co-heirship right,
this space that you're occupying, where you're in partnership,
in league with Christ, and haveauthority in that space, in

(58:17):
partnership in league withchrist, and have authority in
that space, how is thatdifferent than self-deification
right and having that kind ofauthority, having that kind of
sway over the supernatural right?

sure, yeah , in.
In god's kingdom there's onlyone king, and it's not you,
right so it comes down to thesource.

Yeah, you're in both cases.
You're the vessel, right, butwe call it authority in
christendom.
Um, because you're a co-heir,you're in partnership, right,
but the authority, the authorityis you choosing and speaking
and active actively what.
Allowing the holy spirit accessto this realm.

(58:53):
Is that kind of what it is.

I mean, uh , I threw that a little bit,
sure, that's authority, yeahyeah, yeah, I, I wouldn't, I
wouldn't, uh, I wouldn'tdescribe it that way.
How I would describe it isnumber one biblical authority is
always an authority that isgiven.
Okay, okay, so so it is derived.
It is first God's authority.

(59:14):
He's the only one who is thesource.
Good, okay, yeah.
So when we become a Christian,the authority that we have is
not an authority of self, it'san authority of the name and
relationship with Jesus.
Love it.
Yeah, that is the thing.
Jesus and the centurion meet.
The dude's like.
He sees him and he goes.

(59:35):
I'm a man under authority.
I know when I say, go and dothis thing, it will be done.
And so you don't even need tocome to my house to say the word
and it will happen.
And Jesus is like I've neverseen such faith, even in Israel,
even in all of Israel.
What did the dude discern?
He discerned that the kingdomof God works by authority.
Okay, good, that the kingdom ofGod works by authority.
Okay, good.

(59:55):
In the demonic realm it alsoworks by authority, but it works
by a usurped authority in Adamand then a deceptive authority
where the demonic likes you tothink that you're in control.
That's the high mage who thinksthat that's right.
I'm the head of the coven.

Zane Wheeler (01:00:13):
That's right.
I'm the most powerful man onthe block.
Wait until they come calling.
Yeah, exactly, but the demonicis actually in control.
That's exactly right.
You're subjected to them, butthey're making you think you're
in charge 100%, got it 100%.

Pastor Jesse LaForce (01:00:23):
I like it In the kingdom of God.
It is exactly the opposite.
I'm not in control of anything.
Yeah.
And there eventually becomes aplace where I love him so much
that his desires become mydesires.
Okay, and in that zone his willbecomes my will, and it's not

(01:00:44):
my will, it's his, but itbecomes mine.
And then when I move and Iexercise according to the
kingdom of God, I'm not seekingto execute my will, I'm seeking
to execute his.
Yeah, and that place ofintimacy and developed
fellowship it takes, you know,to jamie's point.

(01:01:05):
How did, how, did like tell mehow you developed hearing god
like that, suffering, yeah,clinging to the word of god,
right, relying on him,needinging on him, needing to
have like he said it?
He said I didn't memorizescripture, I don't memorize
scripture, and yet if you listento his stuff, dude, he's
pulling it out all the time.
Yeah, he said I had to cling toit as a promise until God

(01:01:31):
proved it.
Wow Right Amen until god provedit.
Wow, right, amen.
So so it's that the the.
The secondary dynamic is thedifference between power and
authority.
Yeah, okay, yeah, two differentwords exousia is power and
dunamis is.
I'm sorry, exousia is authority, dunamis is power.
Authority is like the cop withthe badge Right.

(01:01:53):
I love that analogy.
Right, I am a authorizedrepresentative of a thing and I
have a badge that represents me,but it represents the bigger
thing that I am a part of, right, which is that's exactly the
math on authority in the kingdomof God.
Right, okay, the whole isgreater than the individual.

Okay, but it could also be like a sigil on the
cloak of a mage that relates toabaddon or something in the yeah
, they use it that way yeah aswell.
That's why this is good to pickapart.
Yeah, because it's the samemath you know, or it's the same
mechanics yeah.

But different sources and it's
repurposed and it's corruptedyeah, absolutely yeah, and you
know we want to be careful that.
You know the there is a presenttrajectory of thought in some
churches that the new age hasstuff that we, as the church,
need to redeem.
No, we do not right,emphatically right.
The kingdom of god taught useverything we need and we don't

(01:02:55):
need to redeem anything justfrom the corrupted room stolen
and counterfeited does not meanwe need to go back.

That's right.

Yeah, 100 cleanse it right, no, no, there,
there is a better thing that'savailable for us, and if we will
, if we will suffer with him andpay the prices that he asks us
to pay, and pursuing him, he'llgive us everything we need in
the moment.
We don't need to go and try toredeem anything from those
realms.
Okay, the only stuff that'sredeemed is relationship and and

(01:03:23):
contexts, yeah, but thesubstance is never, it's never
redeemed.
So the cop has the badge, pophas the badge, he is in
authority.
Think of the the the cop in themiddle of the city during
traffic rush hour.
Everybody's obeying him.
Why?
Because he got the badge.
You got, you know, four andfive ton vehicles that stop that

(01:03:46):
if they wanted to, they couldtotally run them over, but they
don't, because they recognizethe badge, right, okay, that's
the idea of authority.
Dunamis is the idea of power andit's force, or or, um, forceful
, forceful energy, like we getour word dynamite from it.
Yeah, and we call it dynamitebecause of the forceful blast.

(01:04:07):
And it would be the differencebetween the strongest man in the
world versus the little punycop with a badge.
Right, one's authority, one'spower.
In the demonic realm it oftenoperates by power, right, okay,
right, so the big dogs, they canbeat up the little dogs, and so

(01:04:28):
they operate by power.
There is ultimately anauthority structure, but even
that authority structure isstill derived.
The only reason why they havethe power they do is because of
the law, sure, sure, thecharacter of God, even when the
demonic stands before God.
Job is one, zechariah is anotherone, zechariah 3 and Job 1 and

(01:04:50):
2, the demonic presents itselfin this throne room of God.
Where he is seated on thethrone, the one supreme, yahweh,
and lesser thrones are gatheredaround him, with supernatural
beings, angelic beings thatgather to have court and think

(01:05:11):
court, like king and his nobles.
But it is also court where wedrive the term for judicial
court Right.
And so the enemy comes.
And heaven is full of books.
A lot of people forget this.
They forget that there areangels that take records of
everything yeah, everything.

(01:05:32):
And those books are gonna beopened and we're going to be
judged on them.
And in Zechariah, he stands infront of God with dirty clothes
on and the devil stands there toaccuse him Based on what?
A the fact that he's there inthe wrong attire.
He came into the throne room ofthe King of Kings and Lord of

(01:05:53):
Lords dressed wrong.
B it's dirty, that's sin.
Both of those are rightaccusations.
Sure, the devil's right in hisaccusation.
So what happens?
Colossians chapter 2 says thatin the cross of Jesus, his blood

(01:06:23):
pays for all of our debt.
And it says this, thesecertificates of debt that are
hostile to us, that's these,these documents of what we did
wrong that are in the heavenlyrealm, in in the, the divine
kingdom.
Jesse did this, zane did thatIs taken out of the way and
nailed to the cross.

(01:06:43):
And then it specifically saysthis thing disarmed the demonic.

So that's all they had against us.

Well, they've got the power of death
yeah, so there's.
There's a second element of it,but the first element is the
grounds of accusation.
Right that they stand beforegod and accuse us.
Yeah, they got the dirt and inthe gospel and the death and
resurrection of jesus, the firstcomponent of this record of

(01:07:15):
debt that I owe God, that isgrounds for right and true
accusation, is gone.
Yeah.
Now that's only part of theproblem.
If I've got a bank account andit's in the negatives and I get
it to zero, I still don't have apositive bank account.
Right, right in the negativesand I get it to zero, I still

(01:07:37):
don't have a positive bankaccount.
Right, right, in order to havecredit favor or the ability to
do anything, I've got to have apositive bank account.
This is the idea ofjustification in the scripture.
Okay, where God imputes ordeclares me credits to me, the
righteousness of Jesus, right,right, right.
That righteousness is hisuncreated, tested, proven,

(01:08:04):
resurrected life.
So when he rises from the deadand that illegal death cannot
apply to him because he breaksthat, nope, sorry doesn't apply
to him.
Because he breaks that, that,nope sorry, doesn't apply to me.
He now has a form ofrighteousness that the
righteousness didn't change.

(01:08:25):
It's, it's always the samething uncreated, etc.
But in resurrection from thedead in a body that belongs to
men, as a man, he now breaks thepower of death and those who
come to him can be free from thepower of death.

He proved that resurrection transcended death
100%.

Yeah, yeah , essentially, god says yep, I
receive your sacrifice.
The priest goes into the veil,presents his blood, comes out of
the veil.
In the veil is the cross, threedays in the grave, doing stuff.
Presenting his blood, washingthe heavenly items in his blood
is what Hebrews says.

(01:09:06):
Preaching to the spirits inprison is what Peter says.
He's translating Abraham'sbosom into the heavenly realms
so that the Old Testamentrighteous and those who were in
God when they died, who were inthis holding tank called the
afterlife shale, are nowtranslated into the throne room.

(01:09:27):
Because of the righteousness ofGod.
All of that happens while he'sinside the veil and then he
resurrects, coming outside ofthe veil, which is the evidence
that God accepted what happenedinside the veil Right.
And now anyone who comes to him, he gives them his
righteousness.
This is justification, okay,where God declares to me I'm

(01:09:50):
righteous, imputes to me anddeclares it in front of all of
the heavenly realm.
That is a public demonstration,public declaration.
And then he imparts to me therighteousness of jesus.
So, second corinthians 5, 21,he made him, who knew no sin, to
be sin on my behalf, that Imight be his righteousness.

(01:10:13):
Now I live that new sphere wewere talking about in the
righteousness of Christ.
His life Right, not my lifeRight, outside the law, 100%.

Yeah.

Beyond that, yeah, I'm not subject to
that thing anymore.
Right, death can't hold methere.
My debts that held me there aredone, and so the gospel, the
death and the resurrection ofjesus.
In that one event, god strikesthe killing blow to everything

(01:10:47):
the demonic had going rightright okay, in that zone, that
authority becomes mine, okay,yeah, and baptism is that badge
of political allegiance to thekingdom of god, which is why

(01:11:10):
it's baptism in water is soimportant and why we see lots of
transformation in baptisms.
And, and you know, just forthose who are listening, there's
nothing special about the water, right?
Nothing special about the water.
Okay, baptism is special whenthe person who goes into the
water and comes out of the watermeets god, because they want

(01:11:34):
him.
And the God is special, amen,and he makes that transformation
happen.
Amen, and that signal thatbaptism like people die to get
baptized in other countries.
You can say yes to Jesusprivately in a private home in
Iran, but if they find out, youget baptized privately in a

(01:11:57):
private home in iran.
But if they find out, you getbaptized like people die for
baptisms across the globe.
Right, okay and right, so thethere.
There's something special aboutthe baptism event and we're not
, we're not catholic, we're not,you know, we don't believe in
baptismal regeneration.
The water's not special, it'sthe, the, the.
The god.
Who's special?
He meets the God.
Who's special?
He meets the person who reallywants to know him and be more
than him.
That event is special Right,but that thing is a spiritual

(01:12:24):
declaration to the realms Right.

Absolutely.

Which is why we see the manifestations
that we do in the baptism event.
So you're vested with thisauthority, that's right.
Yeah, that we do in the baptismevent, so you're vested with
this authority, that's right.
Yeah, invested is the rightword when we we tend to not use
that term a lot, except for, um,my investment in a thing, or,
uh, fully vested in my 401k orsomething like that, yeah, but
what it means is authoritativeclothing, right, exactly, okay,

(01:13:09):
I like that talking about thisofficial clothing kind of a
thing.
You know, the high of the mage,high priest, wants to go do his
thing.
He's wearing, he's wearingpriest clothing.
You know, in right oldtestament they've, they've,
they've got clothes forofficiating, right?
Um, in that colossians 2 passageit says that the, the, the
translated word for um, uh, uh,disempowered or disarmed, the

(01:13:37):
demonic is literally removedfrom its clothing, it is
divested from its place, right,which infers this official
position that that the devil hadin accusation against people
who came in to the throne roomof God or who were being
considered by God, and which hewas.
And the word Satan meansaccuser or opposer.

(01:13:59):
The Hasatan is the adversary,right, the one who opposes
somebody.
That, that was their role.
That's what they did.
And in the cross andresurrection of Jesusesus the
lord is like no more.
And and what's really beautifulis is romans, chapter 3, where

(01:14:23):
it says that in that moment godis demonstrated both as just and
the one who makes just, both asrighteous and the one who makes
righteous specifically becausehe had passed over former sins.
So in the bigger view, thedemonic is like you should have
judged David.
Why didn't you judge David?
Why is he finding favor in yoursight?

(01:14:44):
And there's this ultimate sortof veiled accusation against the
character of God in theheavenly realm, because a judge
who justifies a wicked man isnot righteous.
That's what Proverbs 17 says.
And yet God does this all thetime.
So there's this kind of veiledto the Lord and we see it in Job

(01:15:09):
, chapter 4, when the devilcomes and visits Job's friend
Eliphaz.
When the devil comes and visitsJob's friend Eliphaz, there's
almost this tinge of resentmentwhen he says yeah, how can man
be righteous before God?
God even charges his own angelswith errors.
So he's bitter.
Yeah, right, totally andultimately.

(01:15:31):
It's not a question of power,because God can just be like
you're done.
Yeah, it's a question ofcharacter.

Yeah right.

And the analogy that I've used and I
heard it someplace else, so Idon't remember where I heard it,
but now that I've used it threetimes, it's mine.
I guess I've heard somebodysaid as I've said before, as
I've always said, so I guess thethird time is when I get to
call it.

(01:16:16):
If you had a mayor who wasaccused of corruption, but he
wasn't corrupt and he just usedthe law enforcement to crush all
the accusations of corruption,the observers would never know
that he actually wasn't corrupt.
There would always remain thatquestion yeah, right, but if
he's vindicated yes, publicly,yeah, then all questions of
justice or righteousness aredone, right.
And the idea is God could havesmoked the devil.

(01:16:38):
Why are you passing over theseformer sins, god?
Why are you doing this?
And in this one moment, he isproven as both the righteous and
the one who makes righteous,which is the idea of
justification.
Wow, he is the just.
And the one who justifies,which is the idea of
justification.
Mm-hmm, and it's the Romans 8.

(01:16:58):
Who, then, can bring a chargeagainst God's people?
Right?
No one, right?
Who do you think you are tocome and bring a charge against
God's people?
You dirty old devil ascends.
This great crescendo, which isthe end of Romans 8 is like one
of the highest points in theBible, where he's like neither

(01:17:19):
height nor depth, nor powers,nor principalities, nor angels,
and he goes through the wholedemonic stuff.
Yeah, yeah, can resist, we willovercome.
We are more than conquerors.
This whole it's, it's beautiful.
I love it, I love it.

It's beautiful, beautiful.
So this, yeah.
So when, when we're talkingabout this sort of like
awakening into the supernaturaland starting to embrace that,
because the media is promotingit and the world is around us is
reflecting it, you know, I cansee someone being sort of
triggered by this idea ofcontrol and wanting to be in
charge of their walk through thesupernatural, right In a good

(01:17:57):
way again.
Like I've mentioned before,this is a vast spectrum of
opportunity to explore thesupernatural.
But we'll say, to keep itsimple, the occult versus a walk
with Christ, the occult versusa walk with christ.
To choose the occult is sort oflike taking on this, this it's,
it's retaining your controlover the situation, whereas with

(01:18:17):
christ it's like you're giving,giving it up giving it up, yep,
so it's.
It's when the time comes rightand people are going to be
called into this supernaturallifestyle and, reflecting this
thing, you know, I, I, I, might,I can see it hard sometimes for
people oh yeah to let go ofthat control oh yeah, and and if

(01:18:38):
our, if our proposition andopening is the rise of a super
religion?

yeah that is offering you.
You get to be in control.
Yeah, then, then they, theywill, because of the love of
their heart, which is why thatdeception is sent in.
In.
Uh uh.
Second thessalonians there's asecond.
Second thessalonians.
The reason why it's sent is toreveal what you actually love.

(01:19:03):
Yeah, and those who fall away?
The reason why they fall awayis because they refuse to
receive a love of the truth.

Right, they love self.

Right.

Yeah, and they love their fear, because they
want to stay in control andsurvive, because they're
terrified.

Which is control?
Exactly, all of that fear iscontrol.
Yeah, and the sad part is thatin the end, when the beast
reveals himself and we get theone world beast system like
they're not going to be incontrol at all.
Yeah, right you know, right.

So one more thing I wanted to bring up you know,
regarding all of this stuff, youknow we are moving into the age
of enchantment.
It's obviously the supernaturalis becoming a mainstream thing
and it's really going to beabout discernment coming up here
, not just for god's people, butjust humans, humans in general.
I'd heard it mentioned oncebefore that the, the alien sort
of deception, if you will, isprimer for like what may happen

(01:20:00):
in the rapture and an easyexcuse oh, all the christians
are gone.

Yep, one morning yeah, so I've heard that
too.
Uh, it's an interesting one.
Yeah, and I mentioned thestream of data data on a on a
conversation I was having.
Is that there is a stream ofdata that this, um, these, these
, you know, alien beings thatare not extraterrestrial, have

(01:20:28):
released a, a fake newsproposition or idea to those who
are communing with these thingsthat there's going to come a
time where they are going tohave to remove all of the people
from the earth that are holdingthe earth back from ascended

(01:20:50):
consciousness evolution.
Well, right, and so thepresentation is these people who
suddenly disappear are the badguys.
They were holding it back.
That's right.
Wow, and we're the ones who didit, and we did it so that the
rest of y'all who are good, yeah, can ascend they're doubling

(01:21:15):
down on it yeah, wow, yeah, sothat that that stream of data is
out there, yeah, um, which isvery interesting yeah
you know which, you know the,the biggest, the biggest thread
that, once you pull on,everything unravels, is the fact
that these, these beings, haveto obey the name of jesus, and

(01:21:35):
and people in these experiencescall in the name of jesus and
the things leave.
So they're obviously not okaywith jesus.
Yeah, and it's not muhammadthat they leave about.
It's not buddha that they leaveabout, it's not you know,
joseph smith, that they leaveabout.
It's not Buddha that they leaveabout, it's not Joseph Smith
that they leave about.

It's Jesus.
It's the name above names,that's right.

And so that kind of all right guys jig
is up.
I know exactly what you are, Iknow exactly what camp you
belong to, and that's probablythe right way to think about it.
What's of the camp of the Lord,kingdom of the lord, right

(01:22:17):
house of the lord, and what'snot of the house of the lord,
whatever that smoke and mirrorsis, you can.
You can determine what's of thecamp of the house and and
kingdom of god versus what's not.
And biblically there's no suchthing as a gray area, right?
You know, jamie said.
He said there's only there's,there's no shade of gray in the
kingdom of God.
That's right.
Like you only got one color ofglory.
That's a great quote.
Yeah, only one color of glory.
And the idea is that there'sonly two camps, there's only two

(01:22:38):
families, there's only twokingdoms, and you got to pick,
right, you got to pick.
And so as we go into these, webelieve we are absolutely
entering into the end times.
There's so many thingshappening so fast.
The proposition of a two-statesolution is being talked about
in the UN here in the next week,I think it is, and all the

(01:23:10):
governments shifting toward theNHI non-human intelligence or
alien conversation know I waslooking.
Last week, japan had theirfirst and the, the european uh
astronomy agency.
Essentially they're nasa, theeuropean union's nasa is seeking
to have conversations with usabout their stuff, and so all of
this stuff is happeningglobally.
And so, as we shift into thiszone and this deception,

(01:23:35):
relationship with Jesus isprimary Mission is supremely
important.
We have so many Christians whoare not focused on the kingdom.
They're focused on I thinkSteve said it the other day
they're focused on going tobarbecues or focused on uh, you
know, I think steve said it theother day they're focused on
going to barbecues or focus on,you know, soccer games or focus

(01:23:56):
on these things.
And and there's a shakingthat's coming and the, the only
thing that's going to matter isthat which is eternal hebrews
chapter 13, chapter into chapter12.
The only thing that matters,that is going to stand the
shaking, is that which iskingdom.
That's it.
That's the only thing that'sgoing to matter.

(01:24:17):
And so the question is what areyou building?
That comes through therelationship.
The second is, um, when we arealready seeing lines and signs
and wonders in the Christianchurch, okay, and I asked the
Lord about 10 years ago likewe've seen the dead race in our
church.
We've seen blind eyes open.
We've seen cancer healed.

(01:24:38):
We we've seen true and bonafide miracles.
Doctor backed up documentedmiracles, and these other places
are claiming those things too.
Yeah.
And so I asked the Lord I'm likeyou know, biblically, let's,
you know, use scriptureRevelation 12, revelation 13,
the beast from the earth and thebeast from the sea.

(01:25:00):
The beast from the sea is thebeast system and the Antichrist.
And the beast from the earth isa beast that arises that has
two horns, like a lamb Okay,there's only one lamb in the
book of revelation, right, andhorns are images of power.
So it's something that arises,a system that arises that looks

(01:25:20):
like the power of jesus.
Yeah, okay, that that's my, myunderstanding of it.
Um, I believe I know that thereare others, but that's that's.
You know where I'm at.
And this, this beast, which islater called the false prophet,
has the ability to do what lookslike resurrection from the dead

(01:25:40):
.
Right, where the, the, thelittle horn, the, the antichrist
and the antichrist and thebeast are different.
The beast is the system, theantichrist is the little horn,
who's a part of the system.
The little horn receives afatal wound and this false
prophet is able to heal themortal wound and the whole earth
goes.

(01:26:00):
Oh, my goodness.
So it doesn't tell you if itactually died or not, right,
whether it actually died or notis irrelevant.
What we know for sure, is itlooks like resurrection?
Yeah?
Might actually be not sure, butthat's not the point.
It looks like it, yeah, and itlooks like it so convincingly
that the whole earth goes afterthis guy.

(01:26:21):
Additionally, this falseprophet is able to call down
fire from heaven and biblicallythat resembles divine
authorization.
It's what what Elijah did inthe presence of the prophets of
Baal, yeah, where he called downfire.
They couldn't, and it wasdemonstration that Yahweh was
involved and the, the so-calledgods of the realm, and in

(01:26:45):
particular, that when it's Baaland the Asherah, yeah.
Right, have no power in thiszone, where maybe they had power
before or whatever.
So I'm like God if they're ableto call down fire from heaven.
Which same thing happened inJob?
God gave Satan authorization totouch everything that Job had,

(01:27:10):
and one of the ways in which hischildren died was fire came
from heaven and consumed them.
Right, okay.
So if, if this false prophet hasthe ability to call down fire
from heaven, how do we deal withthis?
Right?
And I went to first kings 18and it was what the language

(01:27:30):
that we have for it is theshowdown.
It's the showdown moment, it isthe confrontational
demonstration moment, and thisis what's going to happen.
So people got to buck up and beready for this, absolutely.
And what happened in 1 Kings 18, he calls all the prophets to
Baal, and it's 450 prophets toBaal and 400 of the Asherah, I

(01:27:52):
think it is.
So it's 850 people.
You call on your God?
Yeah, I'm going to call on myGod, that's right.
And the God who answers by fireis God.
And they're like deal, okay.
So for number one, there's noway they say deal unless they've
seen this before.
Right, okay.

Yeah, a deal, unless they've seen this before.

Right, okay, yeah, no way, there's no
way.
Proof of that is that they'redancing across the altar and
when it doesn't happen, what dothey do?
They begin to cut themselves.
Okay, right, which is the?
The appeal to blood?
Yeah, power, right.
The appeal to sacrifice, likeall the, all the occultic
ideation is there, yeah okayelijah starts to mock him.

(01:28:35):
right, you know, maybe yourgod's in the bathroom.
Yeah, maybe you should calllouder.
Yeah, maybe he's on a trip.
Okay, you're done.
My turn makes it what seemseven more impossible.
Uses water which wasn't presentin the land because of the, the

(01:28:55):
drought which is.
There's a lot of neener, neeners, yeah, in this, that that
people don't understand that god, god is totally setting up a
confrontation on purpose, notjust to bring his people back to
him, but to absolutely lay lowthese prideful demonic things
that are seeking to infiltratehis people.
Right, okay, right, so thatthey may know.

(01:29:19):
And that's the wording Jesususes, the same wording when it
comes to the demonstration ofthe gospel and the healing of
the man brought down through theroof.
Right, so that you may know,the Son of man has authority on
earth that, if it gives sins,rise, take up your power and
walk.
Right, so that you may know.
He says God, show them thatthis is not my idea.

(01:29:43):
You picked this and you've donethis to turn their hearts back
to you.
Fire falls, boom, right, okay.
Well, what happened in thatmoment?
The superior kingdom renderedineffective the inferior kingdom
there you go.
Yeah, so when the greatersubstance is present, the lesser

(01:30:07):
substance cannot operate.
Right?
Why does my hand move throughthe air when I do this?
Because my hand has moresubstance than the oxygen.
Right, the oxygen is a thing.
Biblically, substance is glory.
Right, that's the.
That's the idea of the termkabod, and doxa takes on a

(01:30:27):
different one, but its root iskabod in the Hebrew and it means
weight.
Okay, so we use idioms likethis guy's large and in charge.
What does that mean?
He's got substance to him.
They want something to happen.
They go in there and they throwtheir weight around.
It's all the same thing, sure?
So the more substance a thinghas, the more glorious a thing

(01:30:51):
is.
Okay, the glory of God descendson the Old Testament tabernacle
.
They can't work because it'ssubstantial, right?
So the glory and substance ofthe greater kingdom renders
ineffective the lesser kingdom.
So what am I looking for?
As we move into this zone, thefalse thing tries to raise a

(01:31:11):
dead person, and they can't,right?

They're rendered ineffective.

Even in the church.

Okay.

Yeah, when the real kingdom is present and
that lesser kingdom that is alesser kingdom can't operate.
Yeah.
Now the real stuff gets tooperate Right and those who are
operating in it are wait asecond, what is I just?
Whoa?
This has worked before.
Why isn't it right?

(01:31:39):
And we've had that where we'vebeen in in conferences locally
with some of these, theseministries that that are in
these weird things and and theytry to do things that they
normally do and they can't, yeah, and then they get.
They're confused.
Well, why is it?
Did it what isn't?
And and it's both, because thereal stuff is present, love it,

(01:32:03):
love it.
And so I I believe that, goinginto these end times, we're
going to be in zones where we'rewe're going to be up against
the.
When it's the occult, it's realeasy.
You just, you know, rebuke thedevil, and you can't do anything
right when it's lying signs andwonders that are being manifest
.
In the church um, which youknow, jesus talks about lying

(01:32:24):
signs and wonders to deceive, ifpossible, even the elect.
Right, and if, if I'm rightabout the revelation 13 passage,
it is a rise of a church thatlooks like christ, those, jesus
says there, there will come aday when those who think they're
doing god a favor will kill you.
Wow, yeah, so it's, it's theright, god, right, okay, yeah,

(01:32:46):
these things are on the rise,which this the, the reason why
it's the this, this recent spateof interest in conservatism is
is great in one sense, but becareful, because there are we in
tears inside of that thing.
Sure, and there's going to comea moment where where they're

(01:33:08):
going to turn on you becauseyour kingdom and they're just
politics, right, hey, that'scoming.

Yeah, okay, they're a nation, you're a
kingdom.
Yeah, yep, yeah.

And they even use the same terms as us,
right, god, jesus, holy Spirit,like, okay, that's coming.
So, at any rate, in that zonewe demonstrate the real kingdom,
amen, and the lesser kingdom isrendered false.
And by way of closing, becauseI think we're coming to the
point, for those of you who arelistening who have friends who

(01:33:45):
are caught up in the false stuffokay, I've got friends that are
caught up in the false stuff.
Okay, and you know, I've gotfriends that are caught up in
the false stuff.
And those who really want Jesus, jesus will lead them out, amen
, he will lead them out.
Number one.
Number two expect that as thetrue manifestations come, as the
true demonstration comes, therewill be those that are in that

(01:34:08):
false stuff that are going to go.
Demonstration comes, there willbe those that are in that false
stuff that are going to go.
Yeah, no, I want that.
Yeah, and they will come out ofit right if they really belong
to god.
Yeah, the lord will make up thedifference, right, because if
they're my sheep, my sheep knowmy voice, right, I'll stand in
the gap.
He'll, that's right.
He'll do it all.
So be patient, yeah, um, youknow god.

(01:34:30):
God, god is gracious and god isgood, and there is more glory
for him and a sinner who repentsand becomes a saint than there
is a one who burns in helleternally.
And so he, if, if there'ssomething in them that will say,
yes, he'll find it.
And and as god begins to definethe land of Goshen, the place

(01:34:50):
of his provision and protectioninside of Egypt, when his
judgment comes, when the plaguescome, as he begins to define
the edges of Goshen, there'sgoing to be those who are in
Egypt that are going to go.
Why aren't the people of Godhaving problems Like, why wasn't
their fields destroyed, right?

(01:35:11):
And they're going to come outof that zone, right?
So look for that, stay prayedup people 100%.

Stay discerning.
Yeah, Steer clear of fear-basedagendas.
Yeah.
Unless it's the fear of God.

And start anticipating the supernatural.
Look, the greatest thing aboutJamie's testimony is this is not
his realm, right, and I wasjust so tickled, I was so
excited.
I was like, oh my gosh, it isgoing to be so necessary.
God is going to independentlybegin to move on people in this
and begin to show them.

(01:35:45):
We're going to see pockets ofit pop up Because the true
church listen, the true churchis going to get dressed.
She'll be ready for jesus.
The, the true thing, will getdressed, and dressed is the
righteous acts of the saints,revelation 19 and 20, yeah, and.
And those who know their godwill do great exploits, mighty
deeds of valor, those who who,uh, are wise, will lead the many

(01:36:08):
to righteousness and shine likethe stars of the sky, like all
of that's coming.
This is not a fearful, scarything.
This is, oh my gosh, the time,the most prophesied time in all
of the scriptures coming to pass, and God has picked us to be a
part of it, and if we willsubmit and go to the real stuff,

(01:36:31):
he'll use us.
Amen, he wants to he wants tohe could do it alone.
He's picked not to right.
Praise jesus, yeah, what ablessing.
That means that if listen, ifyou're doing christianity right,
it's never boring right andthere is no such thing as a
non-supernatural christianianthat's right, very supernatural.

Yeah, that's very supernatural.
Hence the discernment.
Yeah, thank you, brother.
Yeah, what a blessing, what afun time.
Yeah, absolutely, I reallyappreciate your, uh biblical
expertise and it really is justenriching to my walk and shout
out to terrence yeah, shout outto t-dog, who couldn't make it
today.

Uh, but uh , we're maybe those ditty
assassins got them.
Nah, I say these at work.

Well, we're looking to, we're looking to
have them on every time that wecan, but anyway, thank you,
brother.
That was huge.
Yeah, appreciate it.
All right everyone.
Thank you for the support.
Yeah, god bless you guys.
Yeah and uh, we'll catch younext time.
Blood and oil out.

Intro (01:37:36):
Blood and oil podcast is filmed and recorded by Pastor
Jesse and Zane in Californiawith Terrence, on video call
from the East Coast.
We thank our supporters andplease be reminded to use your
own discernment, as the viewsand opinions expressed by the
hosts and guests may not reflectthose of other people,
institutions or organizations.
A variety of guests will joinus as we discuss modern events

(01:37:57):
through a biblical lens, sobuckle up and enjoy the ride.
Thanks to all of our supportersand praise God for the
opportunity to serve him in thisway.
We hope you have enjoyed thisepisode and pray for blessings
upon your day.

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Rise of the Supernatural | Conflict in the Age of Enchantment

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rise of the Supernatural | Conflict in the Age of Enchantment