BAJP Ep.11 feat. Scott Belford(The Walkoff Podcast)

Returning guest Scott Belford from the Walkoff Podcast joins us in a roundtable discussion to discuss about the Toronto Blue Jays. We talked about the season so far, ups and downs to the season, disappointments and surprises, the rotation, bullpen, bats, Barger playing 3b since his callup, and many more!

Where can you find Scott Belford:

1. @TheBelf7
2. @Walkoffpodcast
3. Instagram: @Walkoffpodcast
4. Youtube: @TheWalkoffpodcast

Episode Transcript

(00:30):
Welcome to another edition of the Blue Jays Ave.
Podcast. We got a returning guest in here
today. He's 1/2 of the walk-off
podcast. Scott Belfort, welcome back.
Just remind everyone what you'redoing everything else.
Well #1 Rocky and Rob, congratulations on how far you
have taken Blue Jays Ave. Podcast since I first came on.

(00:51):
I know that you've had a pile ofreally great guests, and I know
you've got a pile of really great guests coming up.
So #1 Congrats on your successes#2 happy to be back.
You know what, you guys have kind of raised up the podcast
ranks a little bit here and havestarted to have some truly legit
people, and it's nice that I have not been forgotten.

(01:12):
For those out there who don't know who I am, I run the Walk
Off podcast and we have all sorts of guests.
We specialize in the minor leagues.
We have a lot of those guys on the show and we get to kind of
dig into what they've been up toand whether it's the Vancouver
Canadians, the Dunedin Blue Jays, New Hampshire Fisher Cats,

(01:33):
and of course the Buffalo Bisons.
I covered them specifically lastyear and I'm actually going down
to do some reporting on them hopefully at the end of June
here. So that's kind of my story.
Thanks, man Yeah, we can never forget you.
You are our first guest. So we appreciate having you back
on and we appreciate the kind words you you you just said to

(01:54):
us. It's it's me and Rocky are just
humbled to to get to do what we love to do.
You know, have you know, sit around talk Blue Jays, you know,
so it's been awesome and thank you very much for coming back.
And again, I know it's been tough to you know, you just
tough to get you back because iflife, you know gets in the way,
right, but but thank you very much.

(02:17):
It's it's awesome. We're honored to have you back
and we're excited, man. So let's.
Get it? Now?
We just need this team to do something we're talking about.
Right, right, right. Alright, we gotta ask the first
question right here. Yeah.
How would how would you look at the Jay season so far?
So far, they're 26 and 28. Surprisingly, their third place

(02:40):
in the AL says it stands the waythat division is gone.
And if you look at this team, how would you assess this team
so far? Huh.
Big sigh. Mean to just use one word, mid.
This has been a very mid team. Their record shows it.

(03:02):
The way that they have produced on the field shows it.
They have been doing this sweep of difficult opponent and and
you start to feel like maybe they're getting some momentum
and then they get swept by an inferior opponent.
There's been no rhyme or reason as to when they get hot.
They're pitching's been hot and cold.
They've had some very good starts and then they also have

(03:24):
struggled with the long ball by some some of their starting
rotation. Bowden Francis comes to mind,
although he pitched an absolute gem yesterday.
Honestly, I'm really having a hard time being in on this team
and I'm also having a hard time being out on this team.
The one thing that the Toronto Blue Jays in 2025 have going for

(03:46):
them, gentlemen, is the AmericanLeague is not what it used to
be. This is a, this is a, a league
that is wide open right now outside of the Yankees.
No one is really running away with this thing and even the
Yankees aren't running away withthis thing.
I know that the Blue Jays are seven games back of them right
now, which seems like a mountain, but you know what?

(04:09):
A sweep of their series. The Jays get hot.
You never know. But we can talk about them
getting hot and we can talk about all these what ifs.
Sure would be nice to see it in black and white at this point.
We are coming up on June 1st. We are coming up on 1/3 of the
season and without a doubt you got to have more offence out of
these top of the rotation guys if we're going to get anywhere.

(04:33):
Especially start to talk about playoffs or wild card spot.
And I'm talking about Bo, I'm talking about Vlad and of course
Anthony Santander, who's been a pumpkin so far.
Should probably be on the IL if you ask me.
Getting right. Absolutely.
Yeah, so it's been a struggle towatch this team when you're
looking at the top of the rotation and expecting so much

(04:54):
out of these guys. And I know Vlad, he's got that
big shiny, fancy, third highest paid deal in baseball and we've
yet to kind of see it click. Yeah, it's been, it's been, like
you said, mid at best. You know, you have, like you
said, the Yankees aren't even around.
Like we're lucky to be just seven games back.

(05:15):
It feels like, like, it just feels like, like you said, we
take, you know, three steps forward and we take like 4 steps
back and it's like you're just, it's, it's unreal like.
Like, like Rob, I was really pumped about this team after
that San Diego series. I really thought that they were
starting to put it together. Their offence was clicking,

(05:37):
their pitching looked as good atit has looked for most of the
month of May. And then they go into Tampa and
they literally just give a series right back.
And I don't know if that's the makeup of a winning team.
I shouldn't say that. I do know, and it's not the
makeup of a winning team. Yeah, it's definitely not.

(05:57):
You know, like you mentioned Santander and his struggles,
like he should definitely be on the IL.
We're hearing that you're still dealing with these injuries,
these nagging injuries he have. So I don't know why they don't
just put them on the IO and justlet them heal.
And you're not gonna go far if if you have you know, your top
guys that are just playing mid baseball and and not coming up

(06:19):
in big moments. And you know, like even in
yesterday's game against Nathan of Aldie, they they looked
pretty decent at some of their at bats and they're hitting the
ball and then he comes out of the game and it just stops and
we couldn't hit a damn thing. And it's like it's very weird,
very, very weird. Like, like it seems like they

(06:41):
for some reason, it just seems like they they, they're better
against the better guys. And then they come in and it's
like, you know, OHP, if ALDI leaves the game, you know, you,
that should be a good thing, youknow, But it turned out to be a
bad thing. Like it was.
It's just, you know, crazy. They need guys to step up right
now in the positions that they are lacking.

(07:05):
You know, like so there needs tobe two things to happen.
They neither need to keep their head above water until the trade
deadline when they can go out and get a front of the rotation.
Starter Kevin Gosman stepping uprecently has been absolutely
massive. And if, if he can be that guy,
if he can be that #1 starter, I think this team can get away
with going with another #3 But the thing with the Toronto Blue

(07:27):
Jays starting rotation in 2025 is that they all feel like
number threes guys. Like none of them are really a
number 1. And I guess there's an argument
Chris Bassett as an actual #2 but he's also a 36 year old
veteran journeyman without a fastball.
Like I, I love that kind of performance during the season.
And Chris Bassett is an absolutewarrior and has showed up when

(07:52):
this team has needed him most. So everything I'm about to say
is not, I'm not slandering the man.
But in the playoffs, when the the chips are down and you need
a guy to make one pitch, is Chris Bassett that guy?
I don't think he is. And so this team either needs
Kevin Gosman to be the pseudo ace that he used to be in 2023,

(08:13):
or they need to go out and get aguy.
And then on the other side of things, when it comes to
pitching, Jeff Hoffman needs to figure it the hell out gentleman
because they desperately need him, especially with Jimmy on
the on the IL. And I mean, we can talk about
over usage and all that sort of thing.
That kind of lies that John Schneider's feet.
But you know what, he didn't have a lot of choices either,

(08:35):
right? So like, you can, you can hang
Schneider for his mistakes, his discretions with the bullpen,
but I don't know if every, you know, every other manager
doesn't make the same sort of mistakes.
There are areas that really stand out like, you know, going
with Hoffman there against San Diego, but they won that game

(08:58):
anyways. So like, even though the, the
the, the moments that really stand out to me that John
Schneider screwed up worked out in certain scenarios.
And that's just baseball. But again, like they need their
starting rotation to to really step it up.
And which is an insane thing to say because they're not scoring
runs, But I mean, they need moreout of their starting rotation

(09:20):
and they definitely need more out of the top three in that
lineup in the batting order. I just wanted to add one thing
when you said about the over usage, I a lot of it lies to me
with that, with them not scoringruns, yes, you know, it's a lot
of close games and it's forcing John Schneider to go to the back
end of his bullpen like seemingly every day.

(09:43):
So it's yeah, it I guess it is what it is.
But I mean, they got to get thatoffence going.
I think that stems and we'll talk about it a lot today.
I think that's a lot of the issue with this team.
You know what? It's a great microcosm of this
entire Toronto Blue Jays team. And the offence is Max
Scherzer's thumb, right? Because like Max Scherzer's

(10:04):
thumb, he can't grip the baseball so that he starts to
overcome Sage and starts to hurthis hip.
And that's exactly what's happening with the offence.
They're overcompensating, they need more out of their pitching.
And that's unfair to both the back end of the bullpen to John
Schneider and the starting rotation in general.
This is the most confusing team I've seen in quite some time.

(10:25):
When you look at this, this teamas a whole, you see time like
their pitching has carried pretty much their way, but the
offence has been a problem the last three years.
If you look at it even in 2023, like they had issues
offensively, especially when it comes to power.

(10:46):
And it just seems like they justcan't put it together
offensively with and it seems like the power zapped.
And when they acquired a guy like Anthony Santander, the him
and his trades are still still abig question mark for me.
And I get what they're trying todo there, but I still don't get
it. But if you look at the way this

(11:06):
lineup is constructed, I mean, who's like doesn't even scare
you. And the fact like I I just don't
see Bo Bichette being a leadoff hitter.
He's not known for that. He's one of the most aggressive,
played, prayed approaches, you know, in the sport.
And I think it's a lot to do with this front office not doing
enough. Like, you need a leadoff guy.

(11:28):
And you know that with George, he's no longer that leadoff guy.
And you have to let him back where he's at at the moment.
But he should not be batting third or fourth.
He should be batting down a bit,in my opinion.
So with that being said, you have to look at it this way.
What does the Jays need to do with this offence moving
forward? Are they gonna ride with what

(11:50):
they have or they're gonna have to start, you know, making
adjustments by shifting around or rearranging the lineup?
That, to me, is the bigger question.
It is so interesting to me that the allocation of funds by this
front office has been basically used to cover up player

(12:13):
development mistakes from the past.
So you're paying, you're paying an awful lot for, and I'm not
putting any slander against Andre Jimenez.
I do think this contract is going to work out at the end of
the day. But it is a lot of money to pay
for a defensive first second baseman.
And you look at what they're doing here with Alejandro Kirk

(12:38):
and yes, we are starting to see his bat is waking up and he is
starting to be a top ten offensive catcher reball, which
is what this organization needs out of him.
But he also is more of a defencefirst guy.
And then you look up the middle at Dalton Varsho.
So they've gone very defensive heavy up the middle and that's
fine. But they're spending some

(12:59):
serious money on glove first guys, which you know what, I
would much prefer them do the Ernie Clement route where this
is a guy that was developed within, was brought up.
I know that technically Cleveland developed him before
the Jays picked him up, but nonetheless, they're paying him
$800,000 for this year. Whereas if you look around the

(13:21):
diamond, this is a very expensive team.
So when you start to ask what dothey do to get this offence
going? Well, the answer is either they
go out and they get another expensive piece, right, or trade
for a guy that maybe this is theone thing the Blue Jays do have
is offensive might. So maybe there is an
organization out there with a hefty contract on the books that

(13:45):
they're trying to get out from under.
And so maybe you go out and there, there's no names that are
really coming to mind right off the top of my head.
But let's just throw out a, a, Idon't know, a Jorge Solaire,
right? And then you're hoping for a
bounce back as well. Like these are the guys that are
available right now in May. So that's an option.
It's probably an expensive option and it's also risky

(14:07):
because you are getting guys that need to bounce back, most
likely. The other thing that you can do
is cross your fingers and hope that this team figures it out.
There are some reasonable equations as to why that could
be the case. I know that when I did baseball
town this month in Toronto here at the Comedy Bar do that every

(14:31):
month. By the way, if you just like
hearing about the Blue Jays and some of the experts talk about
them. My next show is June 12th at the
Comedy Bar. Got Danielle Franceski and Showa
Lee from 590 the fan coming downon the panel.
But last month, all of this to say, Keegan Matheson compared
Anthony Santander and it just kind of a light bulb went off in

(14:53):
my head when he did this to lured his Gurriel Junior, but
with more power. And basically, we are all, as
Blue Jays fans, well aware of Lourdes because he was a man who
when he was cold, he was ice cold and he could run ice cold
for seven weeks. And you start to wonder if he's
ever going to hit again. And then he gets hot and he's
literally the best player in allof baseball and can carry your

(15:16):
team for six weeks. And there is not a lot of guys,
gentlemen, that when they get hot, they can carry a team for
weeks on end. And Lourdes Gurriel Junior was
one of them. And so is Anthony Santander.
We saw that happen with Baltimore last year.
You're just you, you gotta hope that he comes out of it.
So maybe they put him on the IL for 10 days, they give him an

(15:39):
actual time to heal and start feeling better and come back
healthy and hope that he gets hot and can do what he did for
the Orioles for Toronto. Come June, end of June, come
July. It's those are your two options.
You cross your fingers and hope they come out of it.
Or you make a pre trade deadlinemove early.

(16:00):
You spend more than you want to.You get a guy that probably
needs to rebound anyways. It's not pretty, gentleman.
It's definitely not, but you, you had mentioned some of the,
you know, we talked about a little bit about taking, you
know, steps forward and, and, and many steps back.

(16:21):
So what are some of the ups and downs?
Let's talk about the ups and downs a little bit of this team.
What are some ups and downs thatyou've noticed throughout the
season so far? Well, I think the OPS are the
catching position. Alejandro Kirk has been
excellent defensively. He's also starting to really

(16:42):
come around with the bat. I think we've gotten more out of
Tyler Heineman than we've probably could have possibly
imagined. So that's that's a good point.
I think that Addison Barger has been a bright spot.
Looks like he's a guy who can actually play the hot corner.
He looks a little defensively weak at at times, but he

(17:04):
definitely hasn't been a black hole or a sore spot there.
I think that's good stuff. The emergence of the left
handers out of the pen is good news.
Mason Flew Hardy has been absolute found money and I know
that. I watched him pitch with the
Buffalo Bisons last year in AAA and he was fantastic and to see

(17:24):
him make this next step has beenvery exciting.
Brandon Little has worked out incredibly well.
He's been awesome, yeah. He's been absolutely awesome.
Um, I'm, I'm kind of running outof bright spots here.
After that. George Springer has turned back
into a pumpkin. I know that he and his last 30
games is is hitting under 200 again with limited power.

(17:48):
Dalton Varsho there you go. There's there's one last bright
spot. Dalton Var showed despite
limited play has looked very, very good.
And even though he's still hitting around 200 where he
normally does, it is accompaniedwith some legit power.
I know that he's on pace to hit I think 65.
Obviously he's not going to do that.
But no, those are some bright spots, negative spots.

(18:12):
I feel like we have touched on those ad nauseam.
Player development continues to be a thorn in my side.
They're not developing the guys that they need to.
The pitching depth has been minimal at best.
We've watched Max Scherzer go down and then need to kind of do
this song and dance with the waiver wire and long shot
signings and Spencer Turnbull, who we haven't even seen yet.

(18:34):
You know, like there's there's just a lack of depth that's not
very good. And then of course, the top of
this lineup needs to get going. It's it's killing this team
right now. This is how I look at it.
Like you mentioned, the UPS right with Varsho, with the
bullpen and obviously I'll, I'llput, I'll probably put Chris

(18:57):
Bassett's great start. And the first one, sure, throw
basket in there too. I should have.
I should have said that. Absolutely.
You gotta put it back. And God's been starting to step
up lately. Yes.
You know, you know, with Barrios, he's been grinding.
I know there in the first inninghe struggles, but he holds it
down near the near the end, right.
So I think that's somewhat of a bright spot.

(19:17):
The, you know, the big three in the rotation, the offence.
That's a major doubt. Of course, the power's been a
problem, too much inconsistency.It's been a problem because you
look at you look at the ups and downs, like you said, the player
development's been an issue and they they just put different
guys in different situations. Like what are you doing?

(19:39):
Nathan Lucas, because he was very streaky too.
I'll put him as a positive in inrecent with his recent track
record. But yeah, are you gonna play the
guy everyday if he could have continued to play well or like?
And The thing is like they're not, they're not using the guys
they should be using or not, forexample like.

(20:00):
Addison Barger in the beginning that would just struggle.
Now he's putting third base, right?
And what is the outfield situation looking like?
Because they got too many, too many guys in in AAA.
Like are you going to give otherguys an opportunity?
Alan Rowland was struggling. Well, Wagner was struggling
before they got sent down. Are you gonna bring those guys
back up or, or you're gonna ridewith what you're having?

(20:21):
Like you said, could they do a trade to to re justify the
offence? To me, offence is a major
problem. That's a major down.
And I hate to say this sad tender has a really lived up to
what he's been so far right. And and I get it.
And this is my bigger question here is, is he really hurt?

(20:42):
Because there's points that theysaid that his shoulder was a
problem. Now his hip is been a problem.
I don't know what it is like with his situation because there
was times that he was not playing for a couple games and
then he was pinch hitting in a situation where he should have
been pinch hitting where his bases loaded, right?

(21:04):
So it's like there's a lot of confusion there in that
situation. So that to me is are down and
and the injuries with like with him, Inez, it's like, what is
Jimenez as a player with this team long term?
Yes, he's 26. He's relatively young, But you
know, when you're acquiring a guy and you're hearing that

(21:24):
contract for the next four yearsor five years, what is he as a
player with this organization long term?
Yeah, I think I, I, I think thatAndre Jimenez is going to work
out. He is 26.
I do understand the pushback on this acquisition because this is

(21:48):
another glove first guy that you're paying a premium for.
And again, I kind of mentioned that about player development.
And that's one of my biggest thorns in the side when it comes
to this front office is they have failed miserably at
developing cheap, young controllable talent.
They seem to fail even after succeeding, Manoa being an
example of that. I watched them go out and get a

(22:12):
guy like Dalton Varsho that was developed elsewhere and pan out,
but then also pay a premium for it in a top first overall
prospect like Gabriel Moreno. And I'm not saying Gabriel
Moreno is killing it in in Arizona or anything like that.
He is providing a very good winsabove replacement.

(22:34):
I know there's lots of folks outthere who argue war that it's
not an irrelevant, but I think it is relevant.
I, I think that you need to lookat the grand picture when you're
talking analytics. And Gabriel Moreno has a lot
going for him. But they paid a lot for a glove
first guy giving up that, that actually that that prospect
right. And they could have moved him

(22:55):
for maybe a higher end piece. And that is my pushback on that
trade. And that's my frustration with
this front office again, is thatstart I want.
We constantly hear about Trey Savage or Arjun Namala and I
love that they're starting to besome top 100 prospects in this
system. Again, however, a prospect is a

(23:16):
prospect until they prove otherwise.
And it's been a long time since that has happened.
I had big hopes for Alan Roden and I still do.
I think that Addison Barger has been good, not great, and it
will be amazing if we see some returns on some of these guys.
But right now we're overpaying for glove first guys and it's

(23:38):
it's it's difficult to watch this team constantly fail
offensively knowing that's the case.
Yeah, when it comes to that and and I've talked to I talked with
this about with with Rocky aboutthis is to me.
I would if you're gonna if if Santander's truly hurt, I'd put
him on the IO to me, the guy that needs to be called up and I

(24:02):
think and and I'm just hoping hedoesn't get traded before he
gets that opportunity. Is there Revis Martinez?
They gotta find a way to get himup man to see what he's all
about. I mean, if he's going to be on
the Ile why Stefanik on this team explain that.
Like, I don't get why he's even here to be honest with you.
Like why not call up a kid with more upside like a Riley Terrada

(24:24):
or even David Schneider's been hitting a a lot better than
Buffalo like lately. Like like why are they calling
up Michael Stefanik, man? Like it to me that that move
doesn't make sense. We're trying to get this offence
going. So you're calling up a guy who's
just like a journeyman and it just to me, I don't know it, it
doesn't make sense. Also, I wanted to bring up 1

(24:46):
positive that nobody mentioned and it's kind of he was a
negative for for for pretty muchthe entire season was bold and
Francis. But.
That start he gave us yesterday.Ohhh phenomenal.
Was phenomenal like I mean I think that's a positive if if he
can build off that going forwardyou know and I mean it's against

(25:09):
Texas. I get it it's a team that's
struggling also offensively, butif he can get it going you know
like like that's still a hostileenvironment on the road.
He put together a star like thathad a great curveball.
You know, it just you know, it would mean worlds world for this
team if he could do that. But but yeah, I just wanted to

(25:30):
throw him in there as I, I thinkyesterday's start was a positive
was, was something maybe he could build off of.
Yeah, his start yesterday was interesting too, because 64% of
the pitches he threw were fast balls, which is the highest
percentage of fastball he's everthrown in his entire career.
I mean, I think it does lend to the fact that the fastball has

(25:53):
been his most effective pitch sofar this year and the one that
he can kind of still control. He's struggled a little bit with
that splitter he developed last year.
He hasn't been as sharp with hishis curveball, which is an elite
curveball when he's hitting his spots, when you don't have your
spot. It was good.
Yeah, sure was good yesterday. It was fantastic yesterday.
So I I like to see that he's adjusting.

(26:16):
This is one thing that we've talked about on the walk off
numerous times is that Bowden Francis has to readjust because
the league has obviously done that to what he did last
September. And he was absolutely dominant.
Dominant at the end of the season last year, I was at one
of the games where he took a no hitter into the 9th.
The guy was lights out. And it happens to the best of

(26:39):
the ballplayers out there, right?
Once you're hot, everyone startsto sharpen that microscope on
you and start to figure out how to get you out or how to adjust
to what you're throwing at them.And that's what happened to
Francis. And I think that him readjusting
is massive and I love seeing them attempting to find ways to

(26:59):
do that. It's a perfect segue.
So the next question is how would you look at the rotation
as a whole itself? I know that, like you said,
we've been very dependent on barriers.
Gausman, Bassett voted. Francis showed promise yesterday
with the start of the fifth spotspin murky ever since Max

(27:21):
Scherzer's been on the IRL. So could this be sustainable the
way the writing right now? I I this rotation makes me so
nervous and don't get me wrong Ithink that the three headed
monster that is Barrios, sorry Barrios, Gausman and Bassett is

(27:42):
a lifesaver and has been a lifesaver for numerous years for
this organization. Even last year when they were
God awful and only won 74 games that without those 3 putting in
close to 600 innings pitched between the three of them.
I don't even know where this team would be and I think

(28:02):
they're going to do that again this year.
I think they're going to again, deliver on innings and being
that #3 and any other rotation type of guy, maybe a #2 you
know, and I, I love Jose Barrios.
He's a horse and the innings he logs is fantastic.
My problem with this this rotation right now is that knock

(28:25):
on all the wood boys cause one injury to one of those three and
things get bad fast. And so you're right now kind of
rolling with this mystery spot in the 5th hole where you're
going with Eric Lauer coming back from the KBO.
You're you're hoping guys like Easton Lucas can put together a

(28:48):
few sharp starts for you before the bottom falls off of them.
You're going with these depth pieces.
That is already I stated depth has been a problem with this
team. You're crossing your fingers and
hope Alec Manoa can get back in time and there's question marks
surrounding Alek Manoah. Forget about the injury he's
dealing with. I don't know.

(29:09):
I'm, I'm, I'm very nervous aboutthis right now.
It's working out right now. It's going fine.
Chris Bassett has been a godsendthis year.
He has been on honestly far moredominant than I was expecting
for a 36 year old on the back end of a contract.
Here he is on an an this is thisis the last year before his

(29:30):
contract expires. He's a free agent at the end of
the year. And I'm almost at the point with
old man Bassett where I'm like, shit, why don't you give him
another year? You know, like they, they need
another guy in in 2026. So All in all, I think that they
are surviving with their rotation right now, but we're

(29:50):
talking paper thin margins and anything goes wrong and they're
in the dire straits. So how do I rank this starting
rotation? I rank it well.
I just think that we can't screwaround with it like this for
very much longer. I think it's why they went out
and got Spencer Turnbull. Hopefully he's ready shortly.

(30:12):
You, you cross your fingers, gentlemen, and you hope for the
best. Could they move to a six man
rotation when Spencer Turnbull comes back?
Because it just, you know, and Scherzer comes back.
So they could try to keep Scherzer healthy for that
stretch run because he's you know, I think like it's all,
like you said, it's all about stability in the end and the and

(30:34):
the Jays just haven't had it. So do you think it's possible
that they that they could move to a six man?
That's a really interesting suggestion.
If health provides it, I think that might be that might be
worth exploring. I think that there is also a
possibility of trying to limit Scherzer's innings by

(30:57):
piggybacking him maybe off of Spencer Turnbull, where you see
Turnball take the ball for, you know, Scherzer maybe starts for
two to three innings and then Turnball comes in for three of
his own. But yes, I do think that there
is a scenario where they do try to limit Scherzer's innings,

(31:18):
whether that spacing out the starts or whether that is, um, a
piggyback type scenario. I absolutely see that's
something they could they could turn to.
I think it's just that they haveto keep it afloat as much as
they possibly can, right. What also stung for the Jays is
Jake Bloss ended up getting Tommy John.

(31:41):
He would have been up in the rotation as it stands, right?
So the depth is kind of a dire need, like you said, Like they
sign Urania, they sign Turnbull.The Rainier looks like he's
going to be a bullpen guy movingforward, it seems like.
So, yeah, I mean, Adam Mackel could, could he be a player at
this point later this year if hecan build his arm?
And I know he was injured with that, with the knee issue and

(32:03):
now he's starting to pitch. But yeah, I mean, this is a
problem with the Jades. How much can you sustain with
your pitching if your offence doesn't provide you enough?
Because it feels like every timeone of these starters keep
pitching, it seems like they have to put AA0.
And that puts so much pressure on these pitchers, right?

(32:24):
And, and, and it's a lot to do with the the lack of office too,
right? And, you know, give credit to
Gosman 1ER in the last 15 innings, which is stellar
barriers, like you said, like hemakes one mistake and he holds
it down. Eric Lauer has been pretty
steady. Yeah, he has.
Been pretty good actually, yeah.He throws strikes like that is

(32:47):
one thing I'll give him credit for is he goes out there and he
hits the strike zone, which if if that's what you're getting
out of your depth pieces, that'sa huge win.
It doesn't matter the organization.
Right, right. And look, a lot, a lot of fans
were still disappointed about letting go of Yarborough, right.
And I think Lauer makes up a little bit of a ground, but the

(33:08):
pitching is not really an issue that that's the thing, like
people say, oh, yesterday with Chad Green giving up two runs,
but you're not going to win games when you don't score any
runs. And that's been a problem.
Two of the last three games. They they they have scored zero
runs. So the offence continues to be

(33:29):
the problem. It puts a lot of emphasis on the
rotation to pitch a gem every start, which you can't do all
the time because it's a it's a marathon.
And like you said, if one of themain pitchers goes down, this
team is in trouble. Like they're they're in major
trouble. Just go ask the Red Sox right
now what they're going through without pregnant in that lineup.

(33:49):
That's a very similar situation with the Blue Jays.
That's how I look at it. Well, I was just going to say
that it is really frustrating for everyone else involved
around the organization, I'm sure.
I mean, even last night, right, look at Alejandro Kirk make that
mistake throwing down to third base and sailing the ball in the
right or sorry, left field thereand another runner scored and

(34:10):
then it was 2 nothing. And I know I was even very
frustrated with him and kind of yelling at the TV.
What are you doing, you idiot? But I mean, at the end of the
day, no ones picking them up right like the the offence
completely and totally they lostthe 2 nothing game yesterday.
It doesn't really matter how thehell they did it.
You know, like yeah, it's frustrating that it was on an
error. It's frustrating that that that

(34:32):
that run came in, in a scenario that was probably preventable.
But zero runs, you scored zero runs.
What you're waiting to drive in the guy from second in the 10th,
Like, what are we even doing here?
So, yeah, you know, pitching anddefence and stuff like that,
John Schneider, all of those peripheral stuff.
It's easy to point out and get frustrated at us as a fan while

(34:55):
you're in the heat of the moment.
But at the end of the day, you take a step back and look at the
landscape of what the 2025 Toronto Blue Jays are.
They don't score runs. It's the same animal we've
watched for the last 2 1/2 yearsnow.
So when you start asking questions of what are we waiting
for? How do how do we fix it?
I mean, I don't know, it's they're spending an awful lot of

(35:19):
money on a lot of guys and they're not getting a lot of
production. I mean, this is a team that's
two games under 500. Gentlemen, I I'm so sick of
talking about how much this offence sucks.
Like can they please give us another angle to be upset about?
Yeah, like like I was just gonnasay about like when when you're

(35:41):
playing games that are 001 nothing, you know, 1121, you
know what, whichever way it may be, you can't ask these
relievers to go in there and be perfect game in game out, man.
So it's like, I don't even blameyesterday on Chad Green Man.
It's the offence. The offence can't get going.
Like it's as simple as that. But on that front, let's talk

(36:04):
about Addison Barger. He's been playing mainly the
majority of third base since hiscall up.
Do you believe that he's the long term solution at third
base? I don't, I would actually be
surprised if Addison Barger is still a Toronto Blue Jay at the
end of 2025. I think that he might be a piece

(36:25):
that has moved at the deadline depending on what they're
looking for. But if they're, if they're out
there hunting a big third, a bigbat at third base, I think
Barger could be a piece that they're moving to get that.
I look at it this way, with Barger, she has to keep getting
reps and this is a problem with this organization too.

(36:48):
They have too many infielders inthis organization and I don't
know how this is going to be puzzled out.
And I like Barger at third base.The way he plays defensively,
his arm is great. I think his bat will come
together. I mean, he showed a lot of
promise. I think the problem about
Barger, sometimes he gets too passive because when you look at

(37:08):
him at the plate, there were three pitches that was, I
believe, a change up right down the middle and he just just
stared at it. It didn't even wasn't wasn't
aggressive enough. I don't know if it has to do
with the hitting coach because it seems like this is a theme
with this organization. I believe said Tedder yesterday
saw pitch right down the middle.He would have matched it, but I
don't know what's going on, but I feel like it's like

(37:32):
contagious. When you're cold, you're cold
though, right? Like, it is a little contagious.
It is a little bit in the head. And baseball's a really funny
game when it comes to the mentalside of things.
And I really think that they're in it right now, you know, like
they're in the quicksand and they're they're struggling to
feel that confidence that maybe they did feel earlier in the

(37:53):
season. I don't know when the last time
they were actually hitting was. It doesn't feel like anytime in
2025. But spring training might have
been spring. Training.
Yeah, when it mattered the least.
So yeah, like, I, I don't think it's the hitting coaches now.
Is it the hitting philosophy? Possibly.

(38:14):
I just think that there isn't the right leadership on this
team right now. They, they need a, they need a
stud who's going to put all those pressures on their back
right now or, or we need somebody to step up.
I, I don't know what the answer is here, gentlemen.
I I really think that if anyone in the organization knew what

(38:35):
the answer was, we'd already be seeing this team hitting better.
Yeah, seriously, it's like, I, Idon't know.
I don't honestly, it's it's baffling.
Like with Barger 2, you see so many flashes of brilliance and
then you see sometimes it's justit's not there.

(38:55):
And I think it's just a young kid who just needs raps and
needs because the guy hits the ball so hard.
Yeah. And, and he makes like that play
he made to recover last night atthird base was outstanding.
You know, his arm is a cannon, whether it be in right field or
whether it be at third base. He's, you know, he's starting to

(39:20):
get that average up a bit now. I, I kind of do agree with you
on the fact that they could verywell move him for a piece if
it's more of a window type of situation where they're getting
a guy and established guy in here.
There's also a leader because like you mentioned, a
leadership. We got none, you know, and I'm.

(39:41):
Sure feels that way. Yeah, I don't I don't know if
lads much of A leader in that, but like where he steps up and
speaks in the clubhouse, we don't know what goes on behind
closed doors. So you know, he like is he the
most animated guy on the field? Probably, but I mean that
doesn't necessarily lead to him being a leader either.

(40:02):
So and. You know what, well, I'm really
not all that upset with the 26 year old on our team not being
the leader in the clubhouse. I absolutely, you know, but you
know, where this lies is in roster construction and at Mr.
Atkins feet. And it's just like, why is there
not someone here shouldering this pressure and shouldering

(40:23):
this leadership role for Vlady right now?
And I know people are probably listening to this and they're
it's rubbing them the wrong way that are 500 billion billion,
$500 million half a billion dollar guy isn't stepping up in
that leadership role. But I honestly never thought he
was that guy to begin with. I'm not saying he can't get

(40:44):
there. And experience builds
leadership, right? Being in the trenches builds
those kind of ability to to to lead in difficult situations.
But until someone's there to show them how to do it, you
know, and, and they've been relying on guys like Brandon
Belt and Justin Turner. And I have nothing against those

(41:07):
guys. Those are great role players.
But you need an actual dude. And I think they were hoping
that that dude would be Anthony Santander.
And honestly, maybe he will be. But right now, yeah, this team's
floundering. So let me let me let me get to
the next question here since we we keep talking about this

(41:29):
lineup and this offence and thisis what what the question is.
So if the offence doesn't step up at this point, you look at
the lineup, we I don't think Bobis a leadoff hitter.
I feel like there has to be somebody else.
Would you consider a barger? Could you censor consider a

(41:50):
Lucas? And also my Part 2 question
about that is that if this continues to struggle with jobs
on the line, do you think that this organization will be a lot
aggressive than usual years? Paul, Boy, that is a really good
question. And I guess what you're asking

(42:14):
is can they elongate this lineupwith what they've got?
And I, I don't know. I I don't think so.
I'm not saying Bob is the ideal leadoff guy by any stretch of
the imagination, although he is getting the most hits on this
team and he is taking the most at bats.
And that's probably statistically the way I want to

(42:37):
see it. Do I want to see Nathan Lucas go
in there and maybe hit 300 and and be that guy?
I do. I don't think it'll happen and I
don't think he, I think of Nathan Lucas was the answer.
It would have already happened in all honesty.
So I I get the question like I get I get the mentality of what

(42:59):
you're doing here, right? Like you're like, hey, this
isn't working. We've got Beau at the top.
He's our best hitter and then we've got Vladdy normally in the
2 hole verse show has been a nice piece that it's elongated
this line up a little bit getting getting him in there,
breaking up Bo and Vlad and having that lefty in there with
some power. That's been great to see.

(43:20):
And then you hit that wall againwhere Anthony Santander isn't
hitting. I mean, I've stopped calling him
Tony Taters. Earn your nickname a little bit
here, man. Like I I don't know.
So yes and no to that that question Like yes, they should
be aggressive trying to find a leadoff hitter.

(43:42):
And you know what, Louise arrives.
Sure seems like a juicy piece right now.
Although that would be the scenario at the end of this at
the end of this year, right? Like let's say Bo walks, you
move him, Inez to short, you go out and get a Luisa rise and
play him at second base, even though he's a bad second

(44:02):
baseman, but he sure is an amazing leadoff guy.
But then again, guys, you're going out and you're spending 15
to $20 million a year on a guy instead of developing it from
within. So there are so many threads you
can start pulling out on this coat and they always come back
to why the hell can't this team hit and who are they developing

(44:25):
from within? And that all lands on the front
office. This has been an ongoing issue
for the last three years too. It's not like it's just popping
up this year, you know, it's just three years running and
it's, it's, you know, and, and, and, and to add to that, there's
too many guys. There's just too many guys.

(44:47):
Like whether we talked about this before the season began
when we had you on, it was like there's just too many guys,
whether it be in AAA or whether it be at the, there's just too
many guides. It's a convoluted situation and
I I don't know the answer either.
I mean, there are guys in AAA, but you can't call them up
because of the rosters. Convoluted.

(45:09):
So it's like, like, what are yougonna do?
It's like something's gotta give, right?
So like if they're going to be aggressive at the trade
deadline, like we we had Thomas Hull on recently, he talked
about and this was before he gothot, was he talked about Taylor
Ward. I mean, you bringing Taylor
Ward, maybe, maybe he can help jumpstart an offence, you know,

(45:32):
But I mean, then again, like it's just there's too many guys
on this roster to know what to do with.
Yeah, it's a it's a tough situation.
And this is where you need a leader.
This is where you need somebody to step up and just kind of take
control of the clubhouse. And you know what this is?
This is all peripheral stuff that may be that that might be

(45:56):
completely irrelevant. You know, like it's easy to say
there's no leader. It's easy to say there's this
problem and that problem that that's an intangible type of
thing, right? But when when your team is this
mid, you do start to pull it those strings right?
And it's it's how do you fix it?Get hot.

(46:17):
Winning solves a lot of things. I think all three of us are well
aware that if if this team gets hot and goes on on a on A10 game
win streak, all of these things we're talking about melt away to
the wayside. They're not gone.
They're still problems. Player development still hasn't
developed a player in too long. They still are having offensive

(46:41):
woes. But if you're winning, you don't
feel it, right? So I mean, this team right now
feels like a 500 team and I don't know what they do to fix
it. I don't know, I don't know what
to do to fix it as well, But I'll say this like I feel like

(47:01):
there has to be a a little bit of urgency with this
organization. Like we look at the previous
year. It's like they went they try to
be too cute. Like after trading to Oscar and
Lourdes Gourriel signing these guys series one or two year
deals and and now you look like you haven't really recovered
since. And sure, you got Santander, but

(47:22):
he's off to a slow start. I know he's a notoriously slow
start type of player, but at thesame time, how long is how how
too slow? You know, like at some point you
better giddy up because The thing is like right now, if you
look at the standings, they're eight games out of first place.
And The thing is like the Yankees are sure, maybe the

(47:44):
schedule's been tough on the Jays.
Absolutely. And we face tough pitching.
See the Tigers, we see San Diego, we see every team in that
division. And and I don't know what it is
with with the Jays and Rays. Like the Rays have owned the
Jays the last 15 years. It seems like every year in year
out, which is like which is which it seems like a a usual

(48:04):
trait. But at the same time, if you
really want to step up front andget something going, you got you
got to think about doing something like you just can't
wait for long, for very long. Like this coming Saturday, June
1st. And we're at the point like
teams are starting to start taking moves.

(48:25):
Like, I'm pretty sure that there's already conversations
with other teams. I think the Red Sox might be the
most aggressive team this trade deadline, in my opinion.
I think the Jays have to be right up there.
Like you got so many positional players in the minor.
You got to get Josh Kasevich, who's going to be activated.
You got Damiano, Paul Buggiani. Like, what are you going to do

(48:47):
with all these guys? You got little Perfido, You got
David Schneider. Like, like, like, yeah, yeah,
Aravis Martina is like, the listgoes on and on.
At some point, you're gonna haveto say yourself if you're gonna
make a trade for another bat andyou're not gonna trade the guys
are two or three years away because I think that's the

(49:08):
future. Would you look into the AAA team
and be like, OK, I'm going to try to sell this player to go
get the player do you want? I don't know if they are.
I think there's a little bit of showcasing going on here in all
honesty. I know exactly what you're
getting and I agree. I think that it is exactly
what's happening. I think Jonathan Clause say is

(49:28):
very well on the chopping block.I think that Addison Barger is
very well on the chopping block.I think that guys like David
Schneider, if he gets hot, mightsee some playing time again in
in the majors and they hope to to catch lightning in a bottle,
right? Maybe his value skyrockets for a
bit. I think that Aroldis Martinez is

(49:49):
a guy that we could see on the bubble.
I think that Ricky Tiedeman, if there's a team out there that
still sees a high amount of value in that arm despite the
fact having Tommy John surgery, because Ricky T is still only 22
years old. And I mean, in 2026, he's going
to be fully ready to go. So is is some of these like guys

(50:13):
going to be packaged? I think they will.
And I think we are going to see Ross Atkins actually have a fire
under his ass because they are, despite the fact that it seems
like this ownership has endless leeway with Shapiro and Atkins,
that can't be the case. This is a an ownership group
that just went out and spent half a billion dollars on

(50:35):
Vladimir Guerrero Junior. This is an organization that
just spent half a billion dollars on renovations at the
Rogers Centre. This is all within the last two
years, guys. OK.
This is a team that has the fifth highest payroll in all of
baseball. There is a wall coming that Mark
Shapiro is either going to hit or figure out a way to build a

(50:58):
doorway. And I mean, he's had ten years.
I'm not seeing a doorway coming.I hope I'm wrong because all I
want is for my Toronto Blue Jaysto be a good team.
That's all I want guys. Honestly, I I don't care how
they get there. If if defence and pitching winds
up being the way and I eat all my words from the last three

(51:19):
years, it will be a delicious meal if this team goes deep into
the playoffs. They, they can't afford to wait.
You know, like I said, like you said, they spend all this money
and they keep spending money every year and you know, and
nothing's getting better, nothings changing.
So I mean, I agree with you. I think that there's there,

(51:40):
there. It's not like they have this
enormous amount of leeway when it comes to, I think I I mean,
Edward Rogers said it at the flat presser.
He why he expects his team to, to compete and try and win a
World Series. Man, he's not gonna wait around.
He's not gonna wait around for this team to suddenly be good.
Yeah. I mean, if you've had, like you

(52:01):
said, 10 years, I'm sorry, 10 years is a long freaking time.
You know, that's a long time to be just mediocre, man.
It's it's you know, it, it reminds me of the JP Richardi
days. It really does.
It does, right where they're just.
They're good, but never good enough.
Never good enough, you know, Andit's.
Like, and you know what? JP Richardi's era probably was

(52:25):
better than this era, but saw less saw less playoffs because
there wasn't the third wild card.
Honestly, the third wild card spot has saved this front office
because it moved the freaking goal post gentleman.
And the goal was never to get into the wild card.
The goal was always to get back to the ALCS.

(52:45):
The goal was always was to put yourself in the position to get
to the World Series. And here we are as Jays fans
looking at a What are they here?Two games under 526 and 28?
What? What's the record here?
26 and 27? They're they're, they're 26 and
28. I should say yes, like what are

(53:09):
we hoping for here? We're we're literally hoping for
a third wild card spot. And that shouldn't be good
enough for the fans. It shouldn't be good enough for
this ownership group. And how Mark Shapiro and Ross
Atkins are going to survive another year of disappointment
and not hitting their target andtheir goal.
I, I don't know. So I, I do think we're going to

(53:30):
see some urgency like we haven'tseen in their tenure here.
I don't know if it all the, all the writing on the wall of these
two being tied at the hip and and inseparable is true.
We may see Mark Shapiro give it a little bit of extra leeway
here, as long as he gets rid of Ross Atkins, but I don't know if
that solves anything. If the head of the snake is Mark

(53:53):
Shapiro, you know. Yeah.
No, you're, you're, you're, you're spot on with everything.
So that kind of leads me to the next question here with John
Schneider's manager. Is his leeway long like theirs
has been or is it like if this team continues to keep on being

(54:14):
just mediocre, like what does hedo?
You think he's done enough to secure his job here long term?
Well, it depends how much money he is making.
Rogers Communications. And that is a point that we as
fans are not aware of, right? We don't know how much money the

(54:38):
renovations, how much money the Vladika contract is calculated
out to make. We don't know any of these side
deals that raw. I should say Mark Shapiro was in
charge of. He renovated the Dunedin
facilities and supposedly we're starting to see pay offs in the
pitching lab and stuff like that.

(55:00):
My answer. To you is.
You would think that the pressure is on Mark Shapiro as
well. However, I do think that some
major money has been made for Rogers in these Renaults and
stuff like that. And maybe it's not fully paid in
yet, but I think that it's goingto right like you, you go to the

(55:26):
Rogers Centre. I love that ballpark so much
right now. It is just so much better than
it used to be. It's a really great, especially
when the roofs open are really great ballpark experience.
But there is two arcades, there are bars everywhere.
Like even ownership knows that half the people there don't like

(55:48):
baseball that much. So I think that there's always
going to be that bare bones amount of people coming in
making money, which is exactly what they were trying to turn
the Blue Jays into more of a corporate money maker than
anything. And they're well on their way to
doing that. So again, if Shapiro is lining

(56:08):
Ed Rogers pockets with money, I think his job is pretty safe.
But a losing team also doesn't get the same amount of people
into the building. So you you hope that there is a
tipping point here where ownership does start to question

(56:30):
the guys at the top? That's my hope as a fan anyways.
OK, so I look at it so many ways.
Possible, right? Because you know, this team will
have a sense of urgency. And this reminds me a little bit
of 2015, right? And Alex is Alex Anthopoulos was
the GM the last time before Shapiro took over as president

(56:52):
of baseball operations. And you look at it this way,
with John Schneider itself, his contract is also up at after
this year as well. So, you know, a lot of people
say that de Marlo Hale should bea manager in baseball, which he
hasn't been. And like you said, there's so

(57:12):
much at stake with this organization.
And I'm gonna compare this to the Toronto Maple Leafs.
I know that it's a different team, different sport.
But when you look at the president of Brenda Shanahan,
they did not renew his contract.He was there for 11 years.
This is very similar to what Mark Shapiro and Josh Schneider
is going through right now. And let me ask you this.

(57:35):
If Edward Rogers puts an ultimatum and says that I don't
want Josh Schneider go get experience manager and Ross
Atkins, let's just say is he thescapegoat at all this?
Because you know, the the fan base is always pointing at Ross

(57:57):
Atkins because he's an old guy, but the guy above him is Mark
Chaparro. I think he's the ultimate guy
when it has the final say to so many things.
But let me ask you all this If the Blue Jays continue to
struggle during the season, doesJohn Schneider get fired in the
middle of the year? My guess is no.

(58:21):
My guess is that. Ross Atkins and John Schneider
are going down together, and I don't know that for sure.
Obviously this is just a guess. I have no insider information,
but I personally think, how manymanagers are you going to allow
Ross Atkins to fire? Is this truly John Schneider's
fault? Even if you're just trying to

(58:42):
shock some life into this team? Is that even the move at this
point? Too many invariables to think
that he actually doesn't. I could be full of shit, by the
way, guys, I don't know. Wouldn't shock me if John
Schneider was fired, but I do think that that would wreak of
desperation and that would mean that Ross Ackins is on his last

(59:03):
legs. Yeah, I, I kind of, I kind of
agree with. You on that laugh, John
Schneider, We don't know how much this this team struggles as
John Schneider related either. I mean, this front office runs
this team, so, you know, like I feel like John Schneider's a

(59:26):
puppet sometimes. Yeah, his his on on field moves
aren't the greatest at times. Of course, you know, could like
could we get a better manager? Probably.
But I don't see them fight as long as we're hovering around
500. I don't see him, you know,
unless he gets really, really, really, really bad where he like

(59:48):
like kind of like a Baltimore situation where they had to fire
Brandon Hyde. You know, it would be something
like that. I think that's when he gets
fired. But I tend to think the same way
you do. I think it'll be something of,
you know, if they if they fail to, you know, make the playoffs
or even if they find themselves as sellers again, they'll

(01:00:11):
probably wait till the end of the year and and and get rid of
them. But let's hope it doesn't come
to that. Yeah, agreed.
Gentleman honestly guys, this has been so much fun I hate to I
hate to need to bail here, but Ido have a thing I'm doing in a
few minutes but guys honestly please have me back I could talk

(01:00:33):
baseball and Blue Jays with you guys all day long.
We, we appreciate you being herejust.
Let the world know where you canfind you in social media and
everywhere else. Absolutely.
Check out the Walk Walk Off podcast.
Wherever you get your podcasts. We're also on YouTube.
I run Baseball Town, which is a live panel show that goes on at

(01:00:55):
the Comedy Bar at Blur. The next show is going to be
June 12th. comedybar.ca for tickets.
Baseball Towns, the name of the show.
We have Danielle Franceski of the Fan 590 and Showa Lee, also
of The Fan coming on the show for the panel.
There's jokes, there's good times and just a really good
community meet up. So if you're a Blue Jays fan,

(01:01:17):
come join the fun. Again, that's Thursday, June
12th. Gotta get down there.
One of these. Days I do, my man.
Yeah, I know, I know. I.
Live a little bit further away. Than Niagara, but I know what
are these days you know I. Gotta get down.
There and just, you know, meet all you guys and have a good
time. So we'll make it happen, dude.

(01:01:38):
Maybe we can. Maybe.
We can set up a a moment where you guys want, you can be on the
panel too, and we can talk some Blue Jays.
OHP, That would be awesome. That would be awesome.
But thank you for joining us, man.
I know, I know, you gotta run and stuff and and you have other
commitments today, but thank youfor squeezing us in.
Absolutely thanks. Thanks for putting up with me

(01:01:58):
bailing. On you a couple times.
I'd come back anytime. Just let me know guys.
Take care. Alright?
We will place the description. Below where you can find Scott
Belfort and the Walk Off Podcast.
But till next time, take care, be kind to each other.
Signing off from the Blue Jays Ave.
Podcast on Wednesday, May 28th, 2025.