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June 19, 2025 117 mins

In hour one, Michelle welcomes Melissa English, Deputy Director of Ohio Citizen Action, for a conversation about grassroots organizing and how everyday people can drive real societal change. From environmental justice to civic engagement, Melissa shares insights from decades in the movement.

In hour two, Mark and Clayton explore the tension between resistance and retreat in the age of Donald Trump. They examine how some institutions are actively pushing back against authoritarianism, while others opt for self-preservation—raising questions about what it means to fight or survive in today’s political climate.

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