January 21, 2025 • 36 mins
This episode delves into the challenging topics of toxic masculinity, the politicization of the term "woke," and the critical state of women's rights in the U.S. The host and guests share personal stories, including a polarizing family conversation, and reflect on how these social dynamics affect relationships and public discourse. The episode underscores the need for open, respectful conversations, aiming to bring people closer to understanding each other's perspectives. With less than two months until the election, the discussion turns to the importance of voting, especially in defending fundamental human rights and navigating political divides. In this episode, we are joined by guests Tamara Holmes and Josephine Wong.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Well, hello listeners.
(00:21):
We're back and we are going to cover the political discussion for today.
We're going to go over a few topics.
I'm going to tease something up on my, for the guests to comment on and feedback on.
And then each guest is going to have their topic and whatever they want to throw out
(00:44):
there and we're going to just discuss it.
So we're going to discuss three topics, approximately 10 minutes a topic.
And then we're going to finish up with the lightning round.
So we're going to ask each guest and one of my guests will ask me five topics.
I've got these cards, just random, just, you know, political statements and then whatever
pops into your head.
(01:04):
I'm just, just roll with it.
It's it.
We're going to do five each.
So with that, I want to share an experience that I had with a family member and, and a
lot of this kind of coincides with my podcast and what I'm trying to accomplish here by
just bringing people from all walks of life, whatever your, your, you know, political beliefs
(01:26):
are, or, you know, it's just like we're going to bring civility back and we're going to
have discussions because, because we have some of the most challenging problems that
we have to all face the world and we need to do this united.
The key is united.
(01:46):
And we really want to get, you know, all those different perspectives.
And you know, I think at the end of it, we'll all realize that we have more in common than
we don't have at all differences.
We have to put that down and we have to move forward united and American people.
(02:07):
So, so I had to, I have an aunt and uncle, a dear aunt and uncle that are retired in
Las Vegas and he's getting sick.
He's got early stages of Alzheimer's setting.
So I wanted to go see him.
So me and my little cousin, we flew there for the weekend.
We were at the hotel.
We were going to meet them for dinner later on.
So we're all at the pool waiting.
(02:28):
It was me, my aunt and my little cousin and my other cousin called and he, you know, I
grew up with him in Chicago essentially.
He's like a older brother and she was talking to my aunt was talking to him and he's like,
let me say hi to Tyreen.
And I was like, oh, great.
You know, so I'm thinking, you know, light conversation.
(02:51):
So I didn't realize that he just kind of was just going like, like just so different from
what I remember of him, just like this negative dark, you know, it was just like, hey, I'm
just saying, hi, how are you?
How's the grandkids?
And, you know, just real light.
And he got really dark and he started like, well, that woke shit, you know, that woke
(03:11):
shit and, you know, I'm a real, I'm the last of the real man.
I'm just like, I'm literally, I'm at.
Poolside and I'm like, whoa, whoa.
So again, with my spirit of trying to bring these conversations together and these different
points of view.
So I'm like, well, what can you explain what you mean by woke?
I mean, what exactly, because before I comment on it, I wanted to make sure that I understood
(03:36):
what he meant by that.
And he got super fun.
I'm like, and this masculinity issue, this, you know, you're the last man's man.
I'm like, I don't know, I have a lot of men in my life and, you know, there's, it's a
non issue here.
And so we just, he's like, well, fuck you.
He's like, I voted for Trump.
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I mean, so it just really went like, really like off the cliff.
(04:00):
So I'm just like, and then we just took a step back.
I'm like, look, you know, I'm doing this podcast.
I'd love to have you on.
And then, you know, he just really went off the rail and just, it was really a very negative
experience, you know?
So we just kind of got off the phone.
So maybe who I am, I'm like, well, I want to explore this, uh, woke, like, what did he
(04:21):
mean by that?
You know, I want to really like dive into that and this whole toxic masculinity thing
that seems to be really raging a lot of younger men, older men.
I mean, it's just like, I just, it's, it's out there.
It's truly out there.
And, um, clearly he, I, my family member was experiencing it.
(04:43):
So I want to hear from you guys, if you've had any experience with that or what your
thoughts are on this toxic masculinity issue.
And it just was very shocking to me because it's like, I mean, the men in my life, which
I have a lot of men in my life, it's like, this is like a non issue.
And I just don't understand why, you know, it was just such a, I don't know.
(05:09):
It just, he was like breathing fire, so it was coming from a real deep place.
So, um, I don't know.
I just, I was taken aback by it and I just, you know, like I said, I did some research
and some follow up on it.
And some of it is like, you go down that rabbit hole that like, you know, Fox news, you know,
(05:30):
because then I started watching that again, because it's like, I want to have a conversation
with, with him again.
I mean, I'm going to see him at the holidays and just wanted to go there and just see and
sure enough, I mean, it's just like, I don't know if it's fabricated or if there's something,
I mean, because a lot of men are experiencing this.
(05:51):
And I don't know, I just, I think it's a concern.
I think it's a big concern and it's hateful.
It's, it's really, it needs to be diffused.
So with that, um, my guests here today, um, he's, do you want to introduce yourself real
quick?
He's a, he's a repeat guest.
(06:11):
So, um, I know my listeners will know.
So you don't have to go into too much detail.
All right.
He's a majority, um, living in Oakland, California, originally from Morocco.
And yeah, that's what I'm at.
All right.
Any comments or feedback on this whole woke masculinity issue?
(06:32):
Like do you have any, any thoughts on that?
Are you familiar with that?
Did you run across that at all out there?
I was really confused by the whole tone of the whole work.
Like I heard it about a couple of years ago and I'm trying to understand what it is.
Um, very, I would call it like a defensive mechanism to these people that feel don't
(06:56):
have a voice or they, they actually have that.
Um, that's what they think.
And, um, it's, it's really interesting.
Like it just, when you just like similarly to what you, your encounter with your family
member, a lot of times when you actually dive into subjects, they get very defensive very
(07:19):
quickly.
So I'm still trying to understand what woke mean.
Um, I, I, I believe me.
I know.
And I, I, I did read, I mean, but it's just like this, they just like the throw it at
you like slam.
It's like, and it's like, whoa.
And the origins of the term woke really came from like 1800s, like slavery and everything.
(07:41):
And it was like, it was enlightenment about, Hey, you can't, you know, these people need
to free them.
I mean, that's the, so it was a positive actually thing, but it seems like it's been like inverted
or something.
It's very confusing.
Like it's a, it's a slam.
It's like, it's an adjective that trying to help.
It's almost like a shield for a helpless person that doesn't understand what's going on instead
(08:06):
of like talking about topics, issues, differences.
They just throw out the cart of the work, which confuses everything that that's what
I call it.
To me, like you have something.
Let's talk about it.
Yeah.
It just, it's like a blocker.
It's, it's, it was a blocking, you know, mechanism.
Um, anything on the toxic man masculinity point of that conversation as well.
(08:35):
Like masculinity, similarly to work to me, from a perspective, I fortunate that I, I
work in a company with a lot of my colleagues, female colleagues, my bosses are women, my
her boss is a woman.
Um, and it took me a while to understand what that means.
(08:56):
Like from a man, sometimes you don't understand it, right?
Because you go into the workforce and you don't deal with like what probably, um, what
women deal with like in the day to day and, um, in, in, in companies.
And it took me a while to understand what that means, at least from a corporate perspective.
(09:17):
And, um, for, fortunately, I had like some women in my life that were leaders that I
understand where that comes from.
And I had like, actually I had a, a female lady who worked in my team and, um, I was
given a feedback and she's like, you don't get it as a, as a guy.
And it, it, it opened up my eyes.
(09:40):
Like what do you mean?
And she's like, you guys as men tend to talk over us very quickly in a conversation.
And I was like, do I do that?
And she's like, yes, you do.
And I didn't, I didn't realize it.
And I'm glad she spoke up because, um, I didn't, um, I didn't, I didn't get that before.
(10:01):
And, um, so I'm very cognizant of that.
And, um, again, it's, it's very hard for men to see it just because, um, you go day
to day without understanding what the other person, what are your, your partner, your,
your sister, your brother, your, um, or your, your colleague that deals with similar issues.
(10:26):
Um, and until a person speaks up and, um, give feedback on, on, on those subjects.
So you would say that was a moment of work for you?
I don't know.
Again, I don't understand what work means.
But it, but it was a learning.
It was a wake up moment for me if that work met.
(10:46):
That's what, yeah.
Well, that's excellent.
That's a, that's a good descriptive experience.
Um, what about you, Tamara?
Any comments on those two particular topics?
Yes.
I have lots of thoughts.
Okay.
First, I love Tamara.
From the woke thing, I think it's just a blanket statement that kind of covers things.
(11:07):
It's like a spectrum.
It's like all things.
Yeah.
And like, I thought I was OG woke.
Like I'm, I thought that was really positive.
Like I'm super woke.
I grew up and felt my whole life very liberal.
Like I was totally awake.
I, I thought I felt everybody and knew everything and could really empathize and understand and
feel other people's emotions until I had children.
(11:30):
And now they think I'm not woke and they're super woke.
And whatever I say seems like really conservative, which is surprising to me because I taught
them everything I know.
And now they've taken it in this whole new direction that's almost full circle.
Like you can be super liberal and super open and super understanding and it's not enough.
(11:50):
Somehow like you're not allowed to say now there's lots of things I'm not allowed to
say.
And I get my ass handed to me by my own kids.
They say, you can't say that.
And I'm like, what do you mean I can't, you know, just there's a confusion about what's
allowed and what you can say out loud and like how to describe people.
And if I say that somebody is something, a woman, a man, a Moroccan, a Jew, you know,
(12:19):
whatever, whatever we all are, I can't use descriptions because they're like, you can't
say that.
Like, well, so you're saying that the younger generation corrects you and tries to point
in the woke direction, I guess.
So woke.
It's absurd to me personally.
You know, I'm like, I can say that someone is a woman or a tall person or you know, like
(12:42):
descriptions about people and doesn't really matter what I say.
I for sure am like the most conservative person they've ever met, which blows my mind.
It's very confusing as I'm an immigrant naturalized citizen.
And yeah, like you can call me Moroccan.
I'm fine with that.
You can call me a brown guy and I'm fine with that.
(13:04):
But it seems like people get defensive when some of these adjectives, when sometimes are
not even meant as a racist comment, it's fine.
Like to talk about color, talk about gender or non-gender, you know, whatever.
Like to me, it's like we need to have a conversation.
(13:27):
And if you don't understand, just ask.
Yeah.
I completely agree.
And the top of the toxic masculinity.
Any thoughts there?
No, no, no.
Every man I know is cool.
Fully.
Yeah.
I don't know any raging toxic manpower people.
It's it's a well, it's a lot of the Trump voters.
That's for sure.
(13:48):
I mean, that's kind of the classic.
You guys want to take a break?
I'm okay.
Sure.
I'll have a sip.
You want that?
We drinking wine.
I'll have a sip.
Okay, go ahead.
Yeah, go for it.
Or we'll visit this 2019 together.
Cheers.
I don't need a break, mountain.
(14:20):
So we are going to move to our next topic in Tamra.
You're going to tee it up and tell us what's on your mind.
Yeah.
I really appreciate the fact that you said, what do I want to talk about?
Because the only thing I really want to talk about right now is women's rights and human
rights and the election.
I feel like with 44 days left ahead of us, that we just need to talk to women, men, families,
(14:44):
people who are going to vote that need to really think about the fundamental rights
of women.
And it's just on my mind.
And I'm most interested in figuring out a way to speak to people who don't believe
that Roe versus Wade should be reinstated and that women should be given back the fundamental
right to choose what happens to their body in case of anything, any medical, something
(15:09):
between yourself and your God or yourself and your doctor or yourself, that you just
get to choose what happens to your body as every other man on this earth gets to do,
or at least in the United States.
And I just think that it's just a fundamental point for this election and it's really important
to me.
And I'm just trying to find a way to speak out loud to people who don't think that that's
(15:33):
an important issue and that you're not going to vote on that.
It's a human rights thing for me and I'm so passionate and so clearly I want to get out
some sort of message to people, say that you have to vote, that it's so important to vote
for human rights.
Such a great point.
I mean, this election is really going to say a lot about who we are as a country.
(15:55):
This is our civil rights moment, people.
This generation right here, everybody, we really need to make an impact and really make
a statement of who we are as a nation and how we want to be presented to the world.
It really is a clear decision.
But tell me a little bit about your thoughts on, so aside from the abortion issue, I know
(16:24):
you don't want to talk about that, but how do you reconcile that?
Because I talk to people all the time.
In fact, I got in a really big, heavy conversation here a couple weeks ago with a Republican,
lover to death, military, and she's a Catholic, she's a staunch Catholic.
(16:44):
So it was all, and we talked about the abortion issue and it was all about religion for her.
And it's just so, I mean, it was so difficult to break it down of exactly what this is,
freedom, this is separation of church and state.
(17:06):
It's our foundation as a country.
Church and state shall be separate.
Freedom of religion.
It's like you have a religion, you don't want to have an abortion.
God bless you.
You don't want to have an abortion, but don't try to tell me what I can and cannot do with
my body.
I mean, this is over 50 years that we lived with that right as all women had that right.
(17:33):
And to have that stripped away like that, it's just incomprehensible.
I mean, this is our, you guys have daughters, I mean, I have nieces.
I mean, to have, they have less rights than we enjoyed and we fought for.
Women died for us to have that right and they stripped it.
And the next point I want to make is I want to, do you understand how we got here?
(17:59):
How we got here?
How we got here?
So let's touch on that.
Hey, Sean, we haven't, our male panelists here, why don't you take that out?
How we got here and how and why we got here that they would be so bold to go after a woman's
right.
It's really, it's a huge statement.
(18:20):
It really is.
Hey, Sean.
Yeah.
No, it's, it's, it's definitely interesting from a perspective of back looking at it from,
you know, last four, five years.
1976, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
That's what the founding fathers agreed on, right?
(18:43):
That's, I mean, it should be left, right?
Everybody in the middle agree on those fundamental rights.
To me, and I talked to like a couple of dear Republican friends of mine that are respect
them, they, they not read next, they're very educated.
(19:05):
And when you talk about this issue, a lot of times they talk about, oh, we just wanted
to give it's, it's about federal state rights.
We gave the, we gave the rights back to the states to, to make this decision.
And my, you know, my, my, my comeback to that should, should we give slavery?
(19:27):
Like it's a tough, I mean, it's like, should we give slavery?
Back to the states to vote on it.
I, I mean, to me, when somebody's rights are violated, we have the federal government to
say, no, this is how it's going to be.
And that's what Roe versus Wade was.
Everyone's rights are violated.
(19:47):
It's not just everyone's rights are violated.
Correct.
But it's a 50% of society women, like, you know, when, when Roe versus Wade was repealed,
it impacted directly 50% of the population, not the other 50%.
You know, they, they, they indirectly, like the male were indirectly involved.
(20:09):
But like to me, if I was a woman, I'd be a lot more pissed off.
But I mean, just like when anyone's human rights get repealed or taken away, like you
have to stand up for all of us.
It's an outrage.
Yeah.
It's an outrage towards humanity is what it is.
That's what I'm saying.
Like that's what I'm saying.
We, when, you know, 1960s, when the, the deep South were still segregated, the federal
(20:35):
government stepped in, like to conserve the rights of a portion of the population.
And again, we need the federal government to step in.
It is not a state right.
It should not be a state right.
And you know, you ask me, I'm, I'm, I'm taking a tangent, but you asked me, how would we
get there, Trump stepped in and he, there's no small government.
(20:59):
It's a bigger government.
And I'm, I'm here to talk like about if you are truly conservative, you should be believing
in small government.
And that is not a small government.
He's not conservative.
It's not conservative as we all grew up with.
He's a populist.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Well, he's an authoritarian, but that's another conversation.
(21:20):
How about you, Tamara?
What are your summer, some of your thoughts on that last point?
No one's free unless everybody's free.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, that there are women in other states and people that go, it doesn't bother
us.
I'm like, it bothers me.
Yeah.
And yeah, even if it, if it doesn't affect me, it affects me.
(21:41):
And there's women in states in the South that are suffering.
And just because they're women and because they got pregnant and to not be able to,
to preserve the right to not have a baby, like if you can't take birth control, if you
can't do the after-morning pills and you have to get to that point of six, eight, ten weeks,
(22:03):
you have to have a right for whatever fucking reason it is.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I don't want to even talk about, about rape and incest because fuck that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a whole nother conversation and that's real.
That's happening.
Yeah.
That's absurd.
Like we, that shouldn't be part of it.
Like we may get pregnant.
That's what happens in it.
Like some women in the South and in some Southern states that they don't even allow that, like
(22:27):
which is ridiculous.
Like, hey, you get, yeah, but you get raped and guess what?
Like you have to carry that baby.
That's outrageous.
That's absurd.
Yeah.
Like it's, it's, you know, we, we fault Iran for being religious, but that's a very similar
to what I agree.
(22:47):
I agree 100% 150%.
So you asked how, how we got here.
It's the fanatical religious right extremists under the guise of, you know, this pro life
and it's really about control.
I mean, this is where I'm going with it.
It's about controlling women period end of story.
(23:10):
That's part of the whole picture here.
There's a bigger picture here, people.
You know, I don't want to be.
I don't want to be, you know, gloom and doom because that's not my nature.
I'm a very optimistic person, but it really is.
I mean, I'm just, you know, just my last point is that the night that Hitler was elected
(23:34):
into office, the very next day, do you know what his first mandate was his first law?
No women shall have any abortion.
He shut it down completely.
So it's part of that whole authoritarian control factor.
It really is.
And you combine that with our birth rates here, they're obsessed.
(23:57):
And see, I do spend time on the right because I want to understand where these people are
getting this.
You know, I'm getting attacked from my family member.
I don't even know what it is.
And it's like, they really feel like because the birth rates are down, right, in our country.
And so it's this big threat.
It really is.
(24:18):
I mean, it's, you know, this is, I mean, this could be a whole episode for sure.
But that's really what this feels like to me that they really took over the Supreme
Court, the United States Supreme Court.
You all know how they got there.
They're flying around on planes, private planes.
(24:38):
They're living large and they're taking money from these fanatical religious, you know,
white wing and the control before we move to the next subject.
I'd love to talk about how can we balance the Supreme Court, how to make a Supreme Court
(24:58):
less political, because technically, the job is not about to go left or right.
It's about to uphold to the Constitution, uphold to the what American people should,
how to balance the rights of American people.
So to me, like, you know, when we start counting how many people are left, how many people
are right, we already in not a good path.
(25:23):
To me, like it should be a very, you know, and we can talk about that in another subject
if you want to have that, but.
But they should be neutral.
They should just be neutral.
They should be neutral.
It should be neutral.
It should be.
As they have been for decades.
I mean, decades.
Exactly.
And to me, like, to me, when we start counting how many people are left and right in the
Supreme Court, that's already fucked up.
(25:44):
Yeah.
Any final words, Tamara?
You know, I just, I just hope that people continue to chat about it and to not be afraid.
Drink wine and chat.
Yeah.
And not be afraid of that discussion, because I think if you really listen to each other,
that you can learn and not everyone's stuck on one side or the other, that we can just
talk about it.
(26:04):
We're talking to a lot of men who planned on voting for Trump, and I feel like this
conversation, if presented properly, can't get them to start thinking about how important
this election is for women.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is a really huge point.
(26:25):
It's like, if it doesn't impact you directly, you kind of can disassociate with it.
Well, that doesn't impact my life.
I mean, I don't eat an abortion.
You know what I mean?
But you really have to get them to see the humanity.
Okay.
We are going to move on to our next topic.
And he's shunned.
Do you want to discuss what's on your mind, any particular topic, before we get into the
(26:47):
lightning rounds and kind of close with some parting comment?
Yeah.
I did talk to a good friend of mine about, I don't mind conservatism.
It just, I don't want Trump to represent conservatism in this country.
Somebody who's, how do you call it?
(27:10):
I'm trying to find the words, because he's a populist.
He's not even well educated.
He's somebody who, when his name got called on the Vietnam War to be in the selective
service, he said he had some issues with his knees.
Bones first.
Bones first.
Thank you.
(27:31):
Thank you.
Bones first.
Exactly.
How was of that, right?
And then he was playing, like, I think he was playing, he was a captain of his team,
like a year later.
So it just, like somebody, like, do we want a person, even a conservative, which is fine.
Like, we're always going to be conservative liberals in this country.
And it's going to take that balance to move the country forward.
(27:55):
To me, I just, I wouldn't want Trump to represent conservatism.
Right.
It is sad.
He's not a conservative.
He's not a conservative.
He's not.
He's a chameleon.
He's whatever is going to help him.
You are fired.
He's transactional.
Completely, completely.
And the only reason he wants to be president again is so he doesn't go to jail.
That's it.
(28:15):
Yep.
Exactly.
100%.
And he's really ringing us citizens through the ringer with this madness and this craziness
He doesn't care about us.
He doesn't care about conservatives.
He doesn't care about liberals.
I mean, you think about Reagan, you think about Bush, you think about those are like
true men who believed in conservatism.
(28:36):
And the Constitution, the Constitution and they wouldn't move, like they wouldn't move
the needle because of their populace or not populace, but he's very influenced because
he's just wants attention and he'll just go whichever way it is to get that
attention and it's we don't want a leader to be that influence. Yeah you
(28:59):
don't want him behind the nuclear codes who's on a whim and you know really take
us somewhere very dark very fast. I don't think that's gonna happen. I have faith in our
general absolutely 100% it's a pretty powerful position. Exactly. Well we're
coming to the end here of our topic so we're gonna move to the lightning round
(29:22):
and just end up with that and any closing comments that my guests would like
to make. So he's showing you're gonna take the cards and you're gonna do five
for me post five for me and then we could go to Tamara you could go next
and then I'll do you at the end. Okay. Public education. Wow look at that topic
(29:43):
just came up I'm devoting some of my time toward public education and teaching
civics 101. That tremendous. Oh I like this one Mike Pence. Mike Pence I think he
got more credit than he deserved. He did he did the right thing but that
was what he was supposed to do and what about all that other stuff that he
(30:04):
witnessed and he wouldn't come forward to the congressional subpoena that was
put forth on him. All right because I wanted to say something that's fine
it's not my turn Gretchen Whitmer. Oh my god my fave my absolute fave she is
amazing she is the future of the Democratic Party and we definitely need
(30:26):
to more leaders like Gretchen I mean awesome. Ukraine. I Ukraine I mean we're
gonna we're actually I have a very special guest coming in October she is
she she speaks seven languages major history PhD in history knows inside and
out World War two so we're gonna compare and contrast what's going on in Ukraine
(30:51):
and why is that so important for the United States to stand up for freedom on
that sorry I know I digress and I kind of put a few teasers out there. Last one
for you AI. Again you know I think I believe in AI I think it could do
wonders but I am concerned about people let's just say capitalism gonna rise you
(31:15):
know and just not looking after. Checks and balances right. Exactly okay so
capitalism. This is to me. Yeah that's for you. Capitalism we need it. I'm getting the juicy ones.
We are it it creates some competition and competition is good for prices and yeah
(31:36):
brings out the best. Yeah yeah yeah. All right sounds good it can bring up the
worst sir. Exactly there's social security. I hope it's here when I retire.
Yeah we need it we take care of old people right. It's the right thing to do.
It's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do. All the good ones the health care. Health care we need that too.
(31:57):
Yay Obamacare. You know we didn't have a national health care. We need you know
people needed to be protected for pre-existing illness. I remember that
when they said well I remember when it says you have a cap of a million dollars
for lifetime and no pre-existing conditions. So Obamacare repealed that.
(32:21):
Exactly. All right NAFTA. NAFTA. North Atlantic North American trade.
Trade agreement. We can trade freely with Mexico and Canada.
Yeah I don't have an opinion. All right that's cool. Globalism. I love the idea that we are a global community and that we have communications that where we can learn from each other.
(32:50):
So I'm not really sure what globalism is but I don't know if that covers it.
All right sounds good. Last one space travel you get in the cool stuff.
You have this one. Space travel yeah good I'm also gonna say good. These are good things right.
Like we want to explore. There's so many galaxies and so many opportunities and there's gotta be life somewhere.
(33:13):
Let's go let's go find it. We're not the only ones here boy.
How about some of those things that the military sees on the radar they unidentified.
Yeah it's out there definitely. All right ready. All right. All right Christianity.
Oh it's interesting it's religion. It's one of the greatest religions in the world and I always think like the differences the clashes of the differences always that's what brought civilization to be better.
(33:44):
So imagine the clash in of Christianity and Islam in the Middle East from the crusades. That's what brought a lot of the you know a lot of the sciences back to Europe that create.
So to me like to me again difference. Don't be afraid of differences. All right minority rule minority rule minority rule from like in our Congress.
(34:10):
They're holding up progress the minority the minority is holding up progress. Moving bills forward.
I don't like the way the U.S. is structured from having two political parties. I think it should be more than one because that helps checks and balances but but again those discussions.
That's what you know you need a minority you need a strong minority you need like those discussions in Congress just like you need the in your kitchen table. You have you have different of a pin differences of opinion from somebody who could be your your family member.
(34:46):
It could be your son could be your you know your uncle your your dad and to me that's what's happening in Congress and you need those conversations to move the country forward.
NATO NATO. It was it was it was it was in you know like from a U.S. perspective NATO was North American North Atlantic North Atlantic trade trade treaty treaty agreement right.
(35:17):
I think OK. All right. So it happened. It was needed from the Soviet Union and I the Cold War the Cold War. So it was needed right after World War Two. The question is it needed now.
It's needed because of Putin and to me I think we need to figure out a way to reach out to Russia and find like some kind of agreement without having this like black and white between you know the the West and the East.
(35:50):
I think there's like there's a way of like finding just like we we struggling in the U.S. for having a conversation between the left and the right. We should figure out a way to have that with Russia.
Well I think today's theme here with all of our discussions comes down to communication exactly and being open going to it with an open heart and no judgment.
(36:13):
And I'm not here to change your views. I'm just here to understand your views. All right. Well listeners it's a wrap for our second breaking bread in Napa.
I thoroughly enjoyed it to my guests. Thank you so much for helping me. Cheers everybody. Thanks for having us. Thank you.
Well, hello listeners.
(00:21):
We're back and we are going to cover the political discussion for today.
We're going to go over a few topics.
I'm going to tease something up on my, for the guests to comment on and feedback on.
And then each guest is going to have their topic and whatever they want to throw out
(00:44):
there and we're going to just discuss it.
So we're going to discuss three topics, approximately 10 minutes a topic.
And then we're going to finish up with the lightning round.
So we're going to ask each guest and one of my guests will ask me five topics.
I've got these cards, just random, just, you know, political statements and then whatever
pops into your head.
(01:04):
I'm just, just roll with it.
It's it.
We're going to do five each.
So with that, I want to share an experience that I had with a family member and, and a
lot of this kind of coincides with my podcast and what I'm trying to accomplish here by
just bringing people from all walks of life, whatever your, your, you know, political beliefs
(01:26):
are, or, you know, it's just like we're going to bring civility back and we're going to
have discussions because, because we have some of the most challenging problems that
we have to all face the world and we need to do this united.
The key is united.
(01:46):
And we really want to get, you know, all those different perspectives.
And you know, I think at the end of it, we'll all realize that we have more in common than
we don't have at all differences.
We have to put that down and we have to move forward united and American people.
(02:07):
So, so I had to, I have an aunt and uncle, a dear aunt and uncle that are retired in
Las Vegas and he's getting sick.
He's got early stages of Alzheimer's setting.
So I wanted to go see him.
So me and my little cousin, we flew there for the weekend.
We were at the hotel.
We were going to meet them for dinner later on.
So we're all at the pool waiting.
(02:28):
It was me, my aunt and my little cousin and my other cousin called and he, you know, I
grew up with him in Chicago essentially.
He's like a older brother and she was talking to my aunt was talking to him and he's like,
let me say hi to Tyreen.
And I was like, oh, great.
You know, so I'm thinking, you know, light conversation.
(02:51):
So I didn't realize that he just kind of was just going like, like just so different from
what I remember of him, just like this negative dark, you know, it was just like, hey, I'm
just saying, hi, how are you?
How's the grandkids?
And, you know, just real light.
And he got really dark and he started like, well, that woke shit, you know, that woke
(03:11):
shit and, you know, I'm a real, I'm the last of the real man.
I'm just like, I'm literally, I'm at.
Poolside and I'm like, whoa, whoa.
So again, with my spirit of trying to bring these conversations together and these different
points of view.
So I'm like, well, what can you explain what you mean by woke?
I mean, what exactly, because before I comment on it, I wanted to make sure that I understood
(03:36):
what he meant by that.
And he got super fun.
I'm like, and this masculinity issue, this, you know, you're the last man's man.
I'm like, I don't know, I have a lot of men in my life and, you know, there's, it's a
non issue here.
And so we just, he's like, well, fuck you.
He's like, I voted for Trump.
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I mean, so it just really went like, really like off the cliff.
(04:00):
So I'm just like, and then we just took a step back.
I'm like, look, you know, I'm doing this podcast.
I'd love to have you on.
And then, you know, he just really went off the rail and just, it was really a very negative
experience, you know?
So we just kind of got off the phone.
So maybe who I am, I'm like, well, I want to explore this, uh, woke, like, what did he
(04:21):
mean by that?
You know, I want to really like dive into that and this whole toxic masculinity thing
that seems to be really raging a lot of younger men, older men.
I mean, it's just like, I just, it's, it's out there.
It's truly out there.
And, um, clearly he, I, my family member was experiencing it.
(04:43):
So I want to hear from you guys, if you've had any experience with that or what your
thoughts are on this toxic masculinity issue.
And it just was very shocking to me because it's like, I mean, the men in my life, which
I have a lot of men in my life, it's like, this is like a non issue.
And I just don't understand why, you know, it was just such a, I don't know.
(05:09):
It just, he was like breathing fire, so it was coming from a real deep place.
So, um, I don't know.
I just, I was taken aback by it and I just, you know, like I said, I did some research
and some follow up on it.
And some of it is like, you go down that rabbit hole that like, you know, Fox news, you know,
(05:30):
because then I started watching that again, because it's like, I want to have a conversation
with, with him again.
I mean, I'm going to see him at the holidays and just wanted to go there and just see and
sure enough, I mean, it's just like, I don't know if it's fabricated or if there's something,
I mean, because a lot of men are experiencing this.
(05:51):
And I don't know, I just, I think it's a concern.
I think it's a big concern and it's hateful.
It's, it's really, it needs to be diffused.
So with that, um, my guests here today, um, he's, do you want to introduce yourself real
quick?
He's a, he's a repeat guest.
(06:11):
So, um, I know my listeners will know.
So you don't have to go into too much detail.
All right.
He's a majority, um, living in Oakland, California, originally from Morocco.
And yeah, that's what I'm at.
All right.
Any comments or feedback on this whole woke masculinity issue?
(06:32):
Like do you have any, any thoughts on that?
Are you familiar with that?
Did you run across that at all out there?
I was really confused by the whole tone of the whole work.
Like I heard it about a couple of years ago and I'm trying to understand what it is.
Um, very, I would call it like a defensive mechanism to these people that feel don't
(06:56):
have a voice or they, they actually have that.
Um, that's what they think.
And, um, it's, it's really interesting.
Like it just, when you just like similarly to what you, your encounter with your family
member, a lot of times when you actually dive into subjects, they get very defensive very
(07:19):
quickly.
So I'm still trying to understand what woke mean.
Um, I, I, I believe me.
I know.
And I, I, I did read, I mean, but it's just like this, they just like the throw it at
you like slam.
It's like, and it's like, whoa.
And the origins of the term woke really came from like 1800s, like slavery and everything.
(07:41):
And it was like, it was enlightenment about, Hey, you can't, you know, these people need
to free them.
I mean, that's the, so it was a positive actually thing, but it seems like it's been like inverted
or something.
It's very confusing.
Like it's a, it's a slam.
It's like, it's an adjective that trying to help.
It's almost like a shield for a helpless person that doesn't understand what's going on instead
(08:06):
of like talking about topics, issues, differences.
They just throw out the cart of the work, which confuses everything that that's what
I call it.
To me, like you have something.
Let's talk about it.
Yeah.
It just, it's like a blocker.
It's, it's, it was a blocking, you know, mechanism.
Um, anything on the toxic man masculinity point of that conversation as well.
(08:35):
Like masculinity, similarly to work to me, from a perspective, I fortunate that I, I
work in a company with a lot of my colleagues, female colleagues, my bosses are women, my
her boss is a woman.
Um, and it took me a while to understand what that means.
(08:56):
Like from a man, sometimes you don't understand it, right?
Because you go into the workforce and you don't deal with like what probably, um, what
women deal with like in the day to day and, um, in, in, in companies.
And it took me a while to understand what that means, at least from a corporate perspective.
(09:17):
And, um, for, fortunately, I had like some women in my life that were leaders that I
understand where that comes from.
And I had like, actually I had a, a female lady who worked in my team and, um, I was
given a feedback and she's like, you don't get it as a, as a guy.
And it, it, it opened up my eyes.
(09:40):
Like what do you mean?
And she's like, you guys as men tend to talk over us very quickly in a conversation.
And I was like, do I do that?
And she's like, yes, you do.
And I didn't, I didn't realize it.
And I'm glad she spoke up because, um, I didn't, um, I didn't, I didn't get that before.
(10:01):
And, um, so I'm very cognizant of that.
And, um, again, it's, it's very hard for men to see it just because, um, you go day
to day without understanding what the other person, what are your, your partner, your,
your sister, your brother, your, um, or your, your colleague that deals with similar issues.
(10:26):
Um, and until a person speaks up and, um, give feedback on, on, on those subjects.
So you would say that was a moment of work for you?
I don't know.
Again, I don't understand what work means.
But it, but it was a learning.
It was a wake up moment for me if that work met.
(10:46):
That's what, yeah.
Well, that's excellent.
That's a, that's a good descriptive experience.
Um, what about you, Tamara?
Any comments on those two particular topics?
Yes.
I have lots of thoughts.
Okay.
First, I love Tamara.
From the woke thing, I think it's just a blanket statement that kind of covers things.
(11:07):
It's like a spectrum.
It's like all things.
Yeah.
And like, I thought I was OG woke.
Like I'm, I thought that was really positive.
Like I'm super woke.
I grew up and felt my whole life very liberal.
Like I was totally awake.
I, I thought I felt everybody and knew everything and could really empathize and understand and
feel other people's emotions until I had children.
(11:30):
And now they think I'm not woke and they're super woke.
And whatever I say seems like really conservative, which is surprising to me because I taught
them everything I know.
And now they've taken it in this whole new direction that's almost full circle.
Like you can be super liberal and super open and super understanding and it's not enough.
(11:50):
Somehow like you're not allowed to say now there's lots of things I'm not allowed to
say.
And I get my ass handed to me by my own kids.
They say, you can't say that.
And I'm like, what do you mean I can't, you know, just there's a confusion about what's
allowed and what you can say out loud and like how to describe people.
And if I say that somebody is something, a woman, a man, a Moroccan, a Jew, you know,
(12:19):
whatever, whatever we all are, I can't use descriptions because they're like, you can't
say that.
Like, well, so you're saying that the younger generation corrects you and tries to point
in the woke direction, I guess.
So woke.
It's absurd to me personally.
You know, I'm like, I can say that someone is a woman or a tall person or you know, like
(12:42):
descriptions about people and doesn't really matter what I say.
I for sure am like the most conservative person they've ever met, which blows my mind.
It's very confusing as I'm an immigrant naturalized citizen.
And yeah, like you can call me Moroccan.
I'm fine with that.
You can call me a brown guy and I'm fine with that.
(13:04):
But it seems like people get defensive when some of these adjectives, when sometimes are
not even meant as a racist comment, it's fine.
Like to talk about color, talk about gender or non-gender, you know, whatever.
Like to me, it's like we need to have a conversation.
(13:27):
And if you don't understand, just ask.
Yeah.
I completely agree.
And the top of the toxic masculinity.
Any thoughts there?
No, no, no.
Every man I know is cool.
Fully.
Yeah.
I don't know any raging toxic manpower people.
It's it's a well, it's a lot of the Trump voters.
That's for sure.
(13:48):
I mean, that's kind of the classic.
You guys want to take a break?
I'm okay.
Sure.
I'll have a sip.
You want that?
We drinking wine.
I'll have a sip.
Okay, go ahead.
Yeah, go for it.
Or we'll visit this 2019 together.
Cheers.
I don't need a break, mountain.
(14:20):
So we are going to move to our next topic in Tamra.
You're going to tee it up and tell us what's on your mind.
Yeah.
I really appreciate the fact that you said, what do I want to talk about?
Because the only thing I really want to talk about right now is women's rights and human
rights and the election.
I feel like with 44 days left ahead of us, that we just need to talk to women, men, families,
(14:44):
people who are going to vote that need to really think about the fundamental rights
of women.
And it's just on my mind.
And I'm most interested in figuring out a way to speak to people who don't believe
that Roe versus Wade should be reinstated and that women should be given back the fundamental
right to choose what happens to their body in case of anything, any medical, something
(15:09):
between yourself and your God or yourself and your doctor or yourself, that you just
get to choose what happens to your body as every other man on this earth gets to do,
or at least in the United States.
And I just think that it's just a fundamental point for this election and it's really important
to me.
And I'm just trying to find a way to speak out loud to people who don't think that that's
(15:33):
an important issue and that you're not going to vote on that.
It's a human rights thing for me and I'm so passionate and so clearly I want to get out
some sort of message to people, say that you have to vote, that it's so important to vote
for human rights.
Such a great point.
I mean, this election is really going to say a lot about who we are as a country.
(15:55):
This is our civil rights moment, people.
This generation right here, everybody, we really need to make an impact and really make
a statement of who we are as a nation and how we want to be presented to the world.
It really is a clear decision.
But tell me a little bit about your thoughts on, so aside from the abortion issue, I know
(16:24):
you don't want to talk about that, but how do you reconcile that?
Because I talk to people all the time.
In fact, I got in a really big, heavy conversation here a couple weeks ago with a Republican,
lover to death, military, and she's a Catholic, she's a staunch Catholic.
(16:44):
So it was all, and we talked about the abortion issue and it was all about religion for her.
And it's just so, I mean, it was so difficult to break it down of exactly what this is,
freedom, this is separation of church and state.
(17:06):
It's our foundation as a country.
Church and state shall be separate.
Freedom of religion.
It's like you have a religion, you don't want to have an abortion.
God bless you.
You don't want to have an abortion, but don't try to tell me what I can and cannot do with
my body.
I mean, this is over 50 years that we lived with that right as all women had that right.
(17:33):
And to have that stripped away like that, it's just incomprehensible.
I mean, this is our, you guys have daughters, I mean, I have nieces.
I mean, to have, they have less rights than we enjoyed and we fought for.
Women died for us to have that right and they stripped it.
And the next point I want to make is I want to, do you understand how we got here?
(17:59):
How we got here?
How we got here?
So let's touch on that.
Hey, Sean, we haven't, our male panelists here, why don't you take that out?
How we got here and how and why we got here that they would be so bold to go after a woman's
right.
It's really, it's a huge statement.
(18:20):
It really is.
Hey, Sean.
Yeah.
No, it's, it's, it's definitely interesting from a perspective of back looking at it from,
you know, last four, five years.
1976, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness.
That's what the founding fathers agreed on, right?
(18:43):
That's, I mean, it should be left, right?
Everybody in the middle agree on those fundamental rights.
To me, and I talked to like a couple of dear Republican friends of mine that are respect
them, they, they not read next, they're very educated.
(19:05):
And when you talk about this issue, a lot of times they talk about, oh, we just wanted
to give it's, it's about federal state rights.
We gave the, we gave the rights back to the states to, to make this decision.
And my, you know, my, my, my comeback to that should, should we give slavery?
(19:27):
Like it's a tough, I mean, it's like, should we give slavery?
Back to the states to vote on it.
I, I mean, to me, when somebody's rights are violated, we have the federal government to
say, no, this is how it's going to be.
And that's what Roe versus Wade was.
Everyone's rights are violated.
(19:47):
It's not just everyone's rights are violated.
Correct.
But it's a 50% of society women, like, you know, when, when Roe versus Wade was repealed,
it impacted directly 50% of the population, not the other 50%.
You know, they, they, they indirectly, like the male were indirectly involved.
(20:09):
But like to me, if I was a woman, I'd be a lot more pissed off.
But I mean, just like when anyone's human rights get repealed or taken away, like you
have to stand up for all of us.
It's an outrage.
Yeah.
It's an outrage towards humanity is what it is.
That's what I'm saying.
Like that's what I'm saying.
We, when, you know, 1960s, when the, the deep South were still segregated, the federal
(20:35):
government stepped in, like to conserve the rights of a portion of the population.
And again, we need the federal government to step in.
It is not a state right.
It should not be a state right.
And you know, you ask me, I'm, I'm, I'm taking a tangent, but you asked me, how would we
get there, Trump stepped in and he, there's no small government.
(20:59):
It's a bigger government.
And I'm, I'm here to talk like about if you are truly conservative, you should be believing
in small government.
And that is not a small government.
He's not conservative.
It's not conservative as we all grew up with.
He's a populist.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Well, he's an authoritarian, but that's another conversation.
(21:20):
How about you, Tamara?
What are your summer, some of your thoughts on that last point?
No one's free unless everybody's free.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you know, that there are women in other states and people that go, it doesn't bother
us.
I'm like, it bothers me.
Yeah.
And yeah, even if it, if it doesn't affect me, it affects me.
(21:41):
And there's women in states in the South that are suffering.
And just because they're women and because they got pregnant and to not be able to,
to preserve the right to not have a baby, like if you can't take birth control, if you
can't do the after-morning pills and you have to get to that point of six, eight, ten weeks,
(22:03):
you have to have a right for whatever fucking reason it is.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
And I don't want to even talk about, about rape and incest because fuck that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, that's a whole nother conversation and that's real.
That's happening.
Yeah.
That's absurd.
Like we, that shouldn't be part of it.
Like we may get pregnant.
That's what happens in it.
Like some women in the South and in some Southern states that they don't even allow that, like
(22:27):
which is ridiculous.
Like, hey, you get, yeah, but you get raped and guess what?
Like you have to carry that baby.
That's outrageous.
That's absurd.
Yeah.
Like it's, it's, you know, we, we fault Iran for being religious, but that's a very similar
to what I agree.
(22:47):
I agree 100% 150%.
So you asked how, how we got here.
It's the fanatical religious right extremists under the guise of, you know, this pro life
and it's really about control.
I mean, this is where I'm going with it.
It's about controlling women period end of story.
(23:10):
That's part of the whole picture here.
There's a bigger picture here, people.
You know, I don't want to be.
I don't want to be, you know, gloom and doom because that's not my nature.
I'm a very optimistic person, but it really is.
I mean, I'm just, you know, just my last point is that the night that Hitler was elected
(23:34):
into office, the very next day, do you know what his first mandate was his first law?
No women shall have any abortion.
He shut it down completely.
So it's part of that whole authoritarian control factor.
It really is.
And you combine that with our birth rates here, they're obsessed.
(23:57):
And see, I do spend time on the right because I want to understand where these people are
getting this.
You know, I'm getting attacked from my family member.
I don't even know what it is.
And it's like, they really feel like because the birth rates are down, right, in our country.
And so it's this big threat.
It really is.
(24:18):
I mean, it's, you know, this is, I mean, this could be a whole episode for sure.
But that's really what this feels like to me that they really took over the Supreme
Court, the United States Supreme Court.
You all know how they got there.
They're flying around on planes, private planes.
(24:38):
They're living large and they're taking money from these fanatical religious, you know,
white wing and the control before we move to the next subject.
I'd love to talk about how can we balance the Supreme Court, how to make a Supreme Court
(24:58):
less political, because technically, the job is not about to go left or right.
It's about to uphold to the Constitution, uphold to the what American people should,
how to balance the rights of American people.
So to me, like, you know, when we start counting how many people are left, how many people
are right, we already in not a good path.
(25:23):
To me, like it should be a very, you know, and we can talk about that in another subject
if you want to have that, but.
But they should be neutral.
They should just be neutral.
They should be neutral.
It should be neutral.
It should be.
As they have been for decades.
I mean, decades.
Exactly.
And to me, like, to me, when we start counting how many people are left and right in the
Supreme Court, that's already fucked up.
(25:44):
Yeah.
Any final words, Tamara?
You know, I just, I just hope that people continue to chat about it and to not be afraid.
Drink wine and chat.
Yeah.
And not be afraid of that discussion, because I think if you really listen to each other,
that you can learn and not everyone's stuck on one side or the other, that we can just
talk about it.
(26:04):
We're talking to a lot of men who planned on voting for Trump, and I feel like this
conversation, if presented properly, can't get them to start thinking about how important
this election is for women.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is a really huge point.
(26:25):
It's like, if it doesn't impact you directly, you kind of can disassociate with it.
Well, that doesn't impact my life.
I mean, I don't eat an abortion.
You know what I mean?
But you really have to get them to see the humanity.
Okay.
We are going to move on to our next topic.
And he's shunned.
Do you want to discuss what's on your mind, any particular topic, before we get into the
(26:47):
lightning rounds and kind of close with some parting comment?
Yeah.
I did talk to a good friend of mine about, I don't mind conservatism.
It just, I don't want Trump to represent conservatism in this country.
Somebody who's, how do you call it?
(27:10):
I'm trying to find the words, because he's a populist.
He's not even well educated.
He's somebody who, when his name got called on the Vietnam War to be in the selective
service, he said he had some issues with his knees.
Bones first.
Bones first.
Thank you.
(27:31):
Thank you.
Bones first.
Exactly.
How was of that, right?
And then he was playing, like, I think he was playing, he was a captain of his team,
like a year later.
So it just, like somebody, like, do we want a person, even a conservative, which is fine.
Like, we're always going to be conservative liberals in this country.
And it's going to take that balance to move the country forward.
(27:55):
To me, I just, I wouldn't want Trump to represent conservatism.
Right.
It is sad.
He's not a conservative.
He's not a conservative.
He's not.
He's a chameleon.
He's whatever is going to help him.
You are fired.
He's transactional.
Completely, completely.
And the only reason he wants to be president again is so he doesn't go to jail.
That's it.
(28:15):
Yep.
Exactly.
100%.
And he's really ringing us citizens through the ringer with this madness and this craziness
He doesn't care about us.
He doesn't care about conservatives.
He doesn't care about liberals.
I mean, you think about Reagan, you think about Bush, you think about those are like
true men who believed in conservatism.
(28:36):
And the Constitution, the Constitution and they wouldn't move, like they wouldn't move
the needle because of their populace or not populace, but he's very influenced because
he's just wants attention and he'll just go whichever way it is to get that
attention and it's we don't want a leader to be that influence. Yeah you
(28:59):
don't want him behind the nuclear codes who's on a whim and you know really take
us somewhere very dark very fast. I don't think that's gonna happen. I have faith in our
general absolutely 100% it's a pretty powerful position. Exactly. Well we're
coming to the end here of our topic so we're gonna move to the lightning round
(29:22):
and just end up with that and any closing comments that my guests would like
to make. So he's showing you're gonna take the cards and you're gonna do five
for me post five for me and then we could go to Tamara you could go next
and then I'll do you at the end. Okay. Public education. Wow look at that topic
(29:43):
just came up I'm devoting some of my time toward public education and teaching
civics 101. That tremendous. Oh I like this one Mike Pence. Mike Pence I think he
got more credit than he deserved. He did he did the right thing but that
was what he was supposed to do and what about all that other stuff that he
(30:04):
witnessed and he wouldn't come forward to the congressional subpoena that was
put forth on him. All right because I wanted to say something that's fine
it's not my turn Gretchen Whitmer. Oh my god my fave my absolute fave she is
amazing she is the future of the Democratic Party and we definitely need
(30:26):
to more leaders like Gretchen I mean awesome. Ukraine. I Ukraine I mean we're
gonna we're actually I have a very special guest coming in October she is
she she speaks seven languages major history PhD in history knows inside and
out World War two so we're gonna compare and contrast what's going on in Ukraine
(30:51):
and why is that so important for the United States to stand up for freedom on
that sorry I know I digress and I kind of put a few teasers out there. Last one
for you AI. Again you know I think I believe in AI I think it could do
wonders but I am concerned about people let's just say capitalism gonna rise you
(31:15):
know and just not looking after. Checks and balances right. Exactly okay so
capitalism. This is to me. Yeah that's for you. Capitalism we need it. I'm getting the juicy ones.
We are it it creates some competition and competition is good for prices and yeah
(31:36):
brings out the best. Yeah yeah yeah. All right sounds good it can bring up the
worst sir. Exactly there's social security. I hope it's here when I retire.
Yeah we need it we take care of old people right. It's the right thing to do.
It's the right thing to do. It's the right thing to do. All the good ones the health care. Health care we need that too.
(31:57):
Yay Obamacare. You know we didn't have a national health care. We need you know
people needed to be protected for pre-existing illness. I remember that
when they said well I remember when it says you have a cap of a million dollars
for lifetime and no pre-existing conditions. So Obamacare repealed that.
(32:21):
Exactly. All right NAFTA. NAFTA. North Atlantic North American trade.
Trade agreement. We can trade freely with Mexico and Canada.
Yeah I don't have an opinion. All right that's cool. Globalism. I love the idea that we are a global community and that we have communications that where we can learn from each other.
(32:50):
So I'm not really sure what globalism is but I don't know if that covers it.
All right sounds good. Last one space travel you get in the cool stuff.
You have this one. Space travel yeah good I'm also gonna say good. These are good things right.
Like we want to explore. There's so many galaxies and so many opportunities and there's gotta be life somewhere.
(33:13):
Let's go let's go find it. We're not the only ones here boy.
How about some of those things that the military sees on the radar they unidentified.
Yeah it's out there definitely. All right ready. All right. All right Christianity.
Oh it's interesting it's religion. It's one of the greatest religions in the world and I always think like the differences the clashes of the differences always that's what brought civilization to be better.
(33:44):
So imagine the clash in of Christianity and Islam in the Middle East from the crusades. That's what brought a lot of the you know a lot of the sciences back to Europe that create.
So to me like to me again difference. Don't be afraid of differences. All right minority rule minority rule minority rule from like in our Congress.
(34:10):
They're holding up progress the minority the minority is holding up progress. Moving bills forward.
I don't like the way the U.S. is structured from having two political parties. I think it should be more than one because that helps checks and balances but but again those discussions.
That's what you know you need a minority you need a strong minority you need like those discussions in Congress just like you need the in your kitchen table. You have you have different of a pin differences of opinion from somebody who could be your your family member.
(34:46):
It could be your son could be your you know your uncle your your dad and to me that's what's happening in Congress and you need those conversations to move the country forward.
NATO NATO. It was it was it was it was in you know like from a U.S. perspective NATO was North American North Atlantic North Atlantic trade trade treaty treaty agreement right.
(35:17):
I think OK. All right. So it happened. It was needed from the Soviet Union and I the Cold War the Cold War. So it was needed right after World War Two. The question is it needed now.
It's needed because of Putin and to me I think we need to figure out a way to reach out to Russia and find like some kind of agreement without having this like black and white between you know the the West and the East.
(35:50):
I think there's like there's a way of like finding just like we we struggling in the U.S. for having a conversation between the left and the right. We should figure out a way to have that with Russia.
Well I think today's theme here with all of our discussions comes down to communication exactly and being open going to it with an open heart and no judgment.
(36:13):
And I'm not here to change your views. I'm just here to understand your views. All right. Well listeners it's a wrap for our second breaking bread in Napa.
I thoroughly enjoyed it to my guests. Thank you so much for helping me. Cheers everybody. Thanks for having us. Thank you.
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