January 7, 2025 • 23 mins
Join us as we chat with Jennifer Bogdan, the project agronomist for Bridge to Land, Water, Sky. Jennifer shares her experiences, highlighting the importance of working with farmers and landowners in co-developing Beneficial Management Practices (BMPs) that address their unique challenges. We’ll dive into the real-world successes and challenges of adopting sustainable practices, focusing on collaboration and practical implementation. This episode celebrates the ingenuity of farmers trialling BMPs and explores how these practices can be bundled for maximum impact.
The Bridge to Land Water Sky living lab is part of Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada’s nationwide network of living labs, under the Agricultural Climate Solutions – Living Labs program. Each living lab brings together farmers, scientists and other partners to develop and improve on-farm solutions that will help store carbon, reduce greenhouse gas emissions and address other environmental issues – such as soil health, water quality and biodiversity.
Hosted by: Michelle Brass
Produced by: Maddie Gould
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello and welcome to the Bridging Relations podcast.
I'm your host, michelle Brass.
Here we dive into diverseperspectives on agriculture and
land management, blendingWestern science and farmer
expertise with Indigenousknowledge and wisdom.
Together, we can addresschallenges and opportunities
that enhance agriculturalpractices to support healthy
(00:29):
land, water and sky for futuregenerations.
Thank you for joining us onthis journey.
On this episode, we're going tohear from Jennifer Bogdan.
She's the project agronomistfor Bridge to Land, water, sky
and she's going to tell us moreabout the important work
happening at the bridge and, inparticular, the work being done
(00:51):
regarding best managementpractices, or BMPs, when it
comes to farming and agriculture.
Hi Jennifer, hi Michelle.
So for those who don't know,what does an agronomist do?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So an agronomist is someone who works in the branch
of agriculture that deals withfield crop production and soil
science, soil management, thatkind of thing.
There's also the termagrologist that someone might
hear.
An agrologist is basicallysomeone who also works in that
same field but has a specificcode of ethics that they have to
(01:28):
deal with.
So if you're making any kind ofa recommendation to producers,
then it's best that you'reregistered as an agrologist,
because there's legislation,like I said, the code of
practice that goes along withthat.
But yeah, as far as anagronomist goes, just someone
who's an expert in field cropproduction.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Okay, wonderful.
So tell me about the work thatyou do as the project agronomist
for Bridge to Land, Water, Sky.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So my role at the Bridge is to connect with the
producers and also connect withour science team and as well
with the land advisory folks atboth First Nations.
I came into the project about ayear and a half ago, so the
British Land Water Sky wasalready a couple of years into
(02:14):
the project.
At that point they realizedthey needed to have an
agronomist, someone who canunderstand more the producer's
role and understand the farmsand the farming practices and
that kind of thing.
So they brought me into theproject and so my role has been
to work with the producers,really build a relationship with
(02:36):
them, get to know theiroperations, because the
producers that we are workingwith are really quite different.
Some are really large producerswhere they're farming tens of
thousands of acres, and thenwe've got other producers who
are, you know, average size farmor some that are smaller.
Some have cattle, some are juststraight grain production.
(02:57):
So they just needed someone toconnect with the producers and
get to know them better andunderstand their needs, their
challenges, and then take allthat information and work with
the science team.
So when we're starting todevelop ideas for trials, we
would then have the producers'information and their point of
view, so I work with them, andthen also all the discussions on
(03:20):
BMPs.
We also involve the FirstNations as well, because it's
their land that is being farmed,and we just want to make sure
that everything that we're doingand working towards also aligns
with the vision that thenations have for their land as
well.
So it's a project that involvesa lot of different components,
(03:41):
a lot of wonderful people, andwe're just bridging it all
together.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Oh, that's wonderful.
I love that.
What are some of the challengesthat you're looking to solve or
to address in the work thatyou're doing?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So the overall goals of the Living Labs focuses
around reducing greenhouse gasemissions and also increasing
carbon sequestration.
So those are two overall goals.
Our BMP plan is all aboutco-development, and so by
(04:16):
co-development we're reallytalking to the farmers and
approaching them about what arethey having challenges with on
the land they're farming, likewhat do they see issues?
Because they've been farming itfor a number of years and so
they really know the land, andso there's already things that
have come up that they'veidentified like, hey, this is a
problem, we need to fix this.
(04:36):
And so that's where coming tothem and coming up with a plan
with them about the bestmanagement practices is really
important.
I think what's different withthe Living Labs project compared
to other producer programs inthe past, is that a lot of
producer programs, you know,would approach the producer and
(04:56):
be like, hey, we need you to dothis, this and this.
And then the producer would saylike, okay, I'll do that.
Or you know, maybe this programisn't for me, but this one is
flipping it around, and whatwe're doing is we're approaching
the producer and saying, hey,what can we do to help you?
And so sometimes it's it's kindof a hard question.
You know there's not always amaybe a big, glaring answer.
(05:19):
Sometimes a producer might bethinking, well, okay, like what
do you want me to do?
Like it's like well, no, youtell us what you want to do and
we'll help you with that.
So it's nice that the wholetheme of the Living Lab is that
we're dealing with tailored BMPsthat we want to work for that
(05:41):
specific farm, work for thatspecific farm.
Just because a certain BMPmight work for one farm, it
doesn't mean it's going to workfor another, because each farm
has its own challenges.
Maybe it's logistics, or maybeit's people power or whatnot.
So, yeah, we're really big onthe co-development piece for the
(06:01):
BMP development.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So have you worked in an environment like this before
, where you're asking producerswhat they need as opposed to
providing a request to them?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
No, I've never been in a role quite like this before
, so my background stems frombeing an industry agronomist for
a lot of my career.
So I was working for typicallya large company in egg retail
and my job then was helpingfarmers find a solution, but it
was usually like what can I useto kill this weed or kill this
(06:34):
insect or manage this diseaseand that kind of thing, and it
was more more sales driven, Iguess.
So, yeah, so this has been justa really interesting project,
Like.
What excited me about thisproject was that, you know, it
was maybe just a really goodopportunity to see what we can
do to take farming to that nextlevel as far as BMPs Like a lot
(07:00):
of farmers are already doing alot of good things on their
farms.
Sometimes I think the public or,you know, the consumer they
only hear and maybe see all ofthese negative things associated
with farming but they don'tactually know how much farmers
are doing a good job.
So, for example, minimumtillage or no-till, that
(07:25):
practice started decades ago and, you know, farmers really have
adopted it all over the prairiesand so they've already kind of
raised that bar.
We're not doing recreationaltillage, Like we understand that
the soil can be eroded, and thesoil is the start of everything
.
That's what grows the crop andeverything right.
So farmers are already doing alot of good things.
(07:47):
But, just like with everything,I think you can look at every
industry out there and there'salways room for improvement.
So it's like, okay, we're at ayou know, this kind of level of
best management practices thatis pretty common in the
agriculture industry.
So what's the next level?
What else can we do?
So that's what I thought wasinteresting about this project.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And are there specific management practices
that you're looking or exploringand testing right now to see if
they would be a BMP?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah.
So with our living lab we arefocusing on BMP bundles that we
call them.
So our science team believesthat, like, just doing one BMP
on a field might give you a youknow a bit of a difference.
You might see a difference oryou might not all the time, but
(08:38):
if you include three BMPs on afield, that's where you're going
to see the most amount ofimprovement on a field.
So our goal for this project isto have a BMP from three
bundles that we have puttogether applied to each field.
So for our three bundles wehave in-field enhancements, so
(09:02):
that's things like cropdiversification, crop rotation,
maybe incorporating somethinglike cover cropping or
intercropping, trying thosedifferent concepts out.
So that would be bundle numberone.
Our second bundle is to do withlandscape enhancements or
diversification.
(09:23):
So that would be things like dowe have marginal areas in the
field that just aren'tproductive and can we put them
down to permanent cover so we'renot just dumping inputs onto a
piece of the field that's notproviding any economic return
for us?
Providing any economic returnfor us Are there patches of
(09:46):
salinity that aren't growinganything except weeds that you
know we can seed to a permanentcover?
Are there some places that youknow, maybe a corner of the
field that is just alwaysflooded, you know, eight out of
ten years Maybe it used to be awetland.
So can we restore that into awetland?
And just you know, if it wantsto be a wetland, let it be a
wetland, that kind of thing.
We're also looking atimplementing things like
(10:07):
pollinator strips, so justproviding a refuge area for all
those beneficial insects thathelp not only pollinate the
crops but provide a refuge forpredatory insects that actually
eat insect pests that we have todeal with in the field.
So that would be for the secondbundle, and then our third
(10:29):
bundle is to do with inputoptimization, you could call it.
So let's take a look at thefertilizer and the pesticides
that we're applying and arethere some modifications that we
can do there For our fertilizer, are we making sure that we're
applying the 4R principle?
So in the industry, the 4Rsrefer to the right type of
(10:52):
fertilizer product applied atthe right rate of application in
the right place in the field orin the soil and at the right
time of the year.
So are we applying all thoseprinciples to our fields?
And variable rate fertilizerapplication Are we using that in
(11:14):
order to maximize ourfertilizer use efficiency, and
then also looking at our pestmanagement as well.
And then also looking at ourpest management as well, are we
using integrated pest managementprinciples to manage our weeds
and insects and diseases?
If we have to spray aninsecticide, for example, are we
making sure that we're usingthe correct economic threshold
(11:35):
for that insect and we're notjust spraying an insecticide
just because we see a bug outthere that we don't like?
And then there are, dependingon the insect you're trying to
control.
There are some specificinsecticides out there that have
come onto the market that arejust really a lot safer to use
as far as an applicationstandpoint for humans, but also
(11:55):
they're less toxic or evennon-toxic to the non-pest insect
species.
So they're just a better choiceoverall if you're trying to
control a certain insect.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So when you're doing this, is there any shortage of
ideas for testing different BMPs?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I guess there's not a shortage of ideas, kind of the
sky is the limit, as long asit's something that's an
improvement in what the currentpractice already is.
But it's not always as easy asit sounds either, because
there's a lot of factors thatcome into play for the farmer.
Some of the ideas like maybesomething like intercropping,
(12:32):
which is going to be more laborintensive because you've grown
two crops together and now youhave to separate them in the end
, so there's an extra step afterharvest.
So those kind of things mightbe a draw to some farmers.
But other farmers might justsay you know what I am like
farming way too much, I'm waytoo busy, I just don't have time
(12:53):
for that stuff, right?
So really we need to get backto the co-development piece,
talking with the farmer aboutwhat their needs are, their
ideas and like what really wouldwork for them, and so it's kind
of all back to that, the why.
I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So what are some of the barriers that might come up
when it comes to implementingBMPs?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So logistics is a big barrier that we deal with again
, with producers that arefarming huge amount of acres,
they're in different places atdifferent times and they have,
in some cases, dozens of peoplethat they already have to manage
, and so for them, when you'readding complexity, you're asking
(13:40):
them to do different practiceson, you know, even just like a
small amount of a field.
It's just one extra littlething that they just might not
have time for.
There's also a level of theirinterest as well.
I guess it comes down to thatneed.
If they really feel likethere's a need for a change of
(14:01):
practice on their farm, thenthey're going to be much more
invested in the amount of timeand effort that it takes to
solve that problem versussomething that you're asking
them to do.
So there's that Cost is alwaysgoing to be one.
A lot of times, if we're askinga producer to adopt a new
technology or try out a newfertilizer product or things
(14:24):
like that, there's usually acost associated with it.
And farmers, they're alreadyrunning a business with really
tight margins that they have topay attention to, so cost is
always going to be way up highon their list, right?
And are they going to get areturn from doing this and
what's the benefit?
High on their list, right?
And are they going to get areturn from doing this and
what's the benefit?
And so that is a challenge forsome of our BMPs, especially
(14:46):
ones that might even be longerterm, like maybe in some areas
we do want to establish, forexample, like some kind of a
pollinator strip, but maybewithin that pollinator strip, we
would like to plant some treesas well.
Well, trees take a long time togrow, right?
So what is the long termpayback from doing this BMP and
(15:08):
is, in the end, is that going topencil out for them?
So cost is is always somethingthat they're definitely looking
at, which is understandablebecause they're running a
business.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, no, of course.
So tell me a bit from your ownperspective.
How is it doing this project inworking with farmers and
producers, in this differentcapacity in testing things in
real world conditions?
How are you finding it, evenjust from a professional
standpoint, to be working onthis project?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It's been a lot of fun.
I've been involved in farmertrials before and so it's a
realistic way of of doingresearch.
No, I'm not a statistician oranything, so there's there's
always like that component thatscientists have to, you know,
consider when they're trying tomake sense of all the data.
I mean a lot of farmers dotheir own trials to begin with.
(16:05):
They're not even tied to aproject or a program, they're
just always testing things out.
So I think there's already thatinnovation in the producers that
we work with and they'rewanting to see how things work
too.
So in that case it's helpfuland it's engaging.
There's that willingness fromthem to try something new and
(16:28):
really test to see how it workson their farm.
A lot of producers you knowlike there might be their
neighbor might be tryingsomething, but their neighbor is
also farming on maybe differentsoil and with different
equipment and all that stuff, soit doesn't always pertain to
everybody's farm.
So yeah, the on-farm trials arereally valuable and they're
real world conditions andsometimes things turn out.
(16:52):
Sometimes they don't, sometimesthey get seeded on the wrong
field, sometimes they don't.
This is what happens.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, um.
So so are there anymisconceptions that come up for
ideas for different farmingmethods that simply wouldn't
work here or, um, that aren'tfeasible and it's based in a
misconception of what's reallyhappening here on the ground?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So good or bad.
There's so much informationonline and um, so someone could
be listening to say a podcast orreading an article or listening
to something, but thatinformation is maybe all based
from the States, and so they'rethinking that they have this
idea of what farming is and howfood production works here based
(17:38):
on you know something theyheard about corn and soybean
growers down in the States whichis completely different than
what we're doing up here, right?
So I think there are a lot ofmisconceptions in how crop
production actually happens uphere.
It comes up with people thatjust are more disconnected from
farming and, like I kind ofaddressed it before, but
recognizing what our farmersalready do.
(18:01):
So, for example, like back tothe you know minimum till thing,
like farmers here have beendoing it for so long that people
forgot what things looked likebefore.
That happened when in the springthe fields would all be black
and then we would have lots ofsummer follow around, where
there's an entire growing season, where you're not letting
anything cover the soil and it'sjust allowed to blow everywhere
(18:23):
.
I mean, I think a lot of peoplehave seen pictures from the
dirty 30s, but that's where thename comes from.
It's from all the soil erosionthat happened during that time
because of all the excessivetillage, and I mean that was
also before herbicides came intoplay, right?
So the farmers really, reallythat was their method of weed
(18:44):
control, was that physical weedcontrol?
But it was also very damagingto the soil and left the soil,
just you know, wide open forwind and water erosion.
But people, now they've theydon't see that anymore.
So they, I don't think theyrecognize what the farmers are
doing now has been animprovement in what has happened
(19:05):
before.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So I don't know if it's human nature or not to
point out the negative ineverything, but you know, they,
there's always so many negativesthat get thrown at about
farmers but not recognizing allthe strides that we have made as
an industry, I guess Well, andand I'm curious then with the
research that that we have madeas an industry, I guess, well,
and I'm curious then with theresearch that you're doing, is
(19:28):
there a lot of potential withinagriculture and farming to
reduce emissions, to improvecarbon sequestration by changing
certain practices.
Is that something that has alot of?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
potential?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, fertilizer managementis a big one, especially
nitrogen management.
So that's definitely one of theBMPs that we're focusing on,
but that's also been top of mindfor a number of years now.
I mean, there's research from40 years ago about nitrogen
placement in the soil and whereis it best to apply your
(20:01):
nitrogens?
Although sometimes farmers, eventhough agronomically there is a
benefit of maybe a certainpractice, for example, like a
fertilizer application,sometimes logistics will trump
agronomy.
You know, a farmer might knowthat it's best to, for example,
(20:27):
ban their nitrogen fertilizer tomake sure it's in the soil
versus broadcasting it, forexample, but maybe it's just the
logistics on their operationjust don't allow for the extra
time it takes to ban thefertilizer when broadcasting it
on top is just a faster optionfor their operation size.
(20:48):
So there are thoseconsiderations as well.
And then there are someproducts.
For example, if you are goingto be broadcasting your nitrogen
, there are certain fertilizerproducts or additives that you
could be using to best reducethe losses of the nitrogen if
you are doing that kind ofapplication.
(21:09):
So we talk about agronomics andyou know those best management
practices but again, like,sometimes logistics just doesn't
work and it's.
It all depends on on the farm.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, and then it brings me back to that
co-development piece as to whyit's so important to be working
alongside to to explore thesedifferent options, or to to do
some of the research to find outwhat would be feasible and
implemented at different levels.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
So what are your hopes and goals for your work
with the bridge and witheverything that everyone is
doing in this project?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I guess the hopes and goals would be just to make it
a change.
You know, if a farmeridentifies something as an issue
having trouble managing evenjust a small piece of one field
that they're farming, and if wecan come up with a plan that is
a long-term solution that fixesthat problem and also opens up
(22:10):
you know, maybe someone's eyesto applying that on a broader
scale, that would be, I guess,the long-term goal.
I guess just really honing inon a field Maybe, for example,
it's just two acres of a cornerof a field that just aren't
producing and you'd think likegeez, it's only two acres.
(22:31):
But I mean, if you take twoacres, multiply that across
multiple fields all across theprairies, that can amount to a
big change.
So I think that would be thegoal is just to get some other
ideas out there.
Let's really hone in and andsee what kind of little changes
we can do and create that youknow ripple effect and see where
(22:51):
it goes, I guess.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Jennifer, that was really wonderful.
Thank you so much for your time.
I really appreciate you sharingyour work and the work that
you're doing with the bridgewith all of us here today.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Thanks, Michelle.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Thanks, Michelle.
Hello and welcome to the Bridging Relations podcast.
I'm your host, michelle Brass.
Here we dive into diverseperspectives on agriculture and
land management, blendingWestern science and farmer
expertise with Indigenousknowledge and wisdom.
Together, we can addresschallenges and opportunities
that enhance agriculturalpractices to support healthy
(00:29):
land, water and sky for futuregenerations.
Thank you for joining us onthis journey.
On this episode, we're going tohear from Jennifer Bogdan.
She's the project agronomistfor Bridge to Land, water, sky
and she's going to tell us moreabout the important work
happening at the bridge and, inparticular, the work being done
(00:51):
regarding best managementpractices, or BMPs, when it
comes to farming and agriculture.
Hi Jennifer, hi Michelle.
So for those who don't know,what does an agronomist do?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So an agronomist is someone who works in the branch
of agriculture that deals withfield crop production and soil
science, soil management, thatkind of thing.
There's also the termagrologist that someone might
hear.
An agrologist is basicallysomeone who also works in that
same field but has a specificcode of ethics that they have to
(01:28):
deal with.
So if you're making any kind ofa recommendation to producers,
then it's best that you'reregistered as an agrologist,
because there's legislation,like I said, the code of
practice that goes along withthat.
But yeah, as far as anagronomist goes, just someone
who's an expert in field cropproduction.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Okay, wonderful.
So tell me about the work thatyou do as the project agronomist
for Bridge to Land, Water, Sky.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So my role at the Bridge is to connect with the
producers and also connect withour science team and as well
with the land advisory folks atboth First Nations.
I came into the project about ayear and a half ago, so the
British Land Water Sky wasalready a couple of years into
(02:14):
the project.
At that point they realizedthey needed to have an
agronomist, someone who canunderstand more the producer's
role and understand the farmsand the farming practices and
that kind of thing.
So they brought me into theproject and so my role has been
to work with the producers,really build a relationship with
(02:36):
them, get to know theiroperations, because the
producers that we are workingwith are really quite different.
Some are really large producerswhere they're farming tens of
thousands of acres, and thenwe've got other producers who
are, you know, average size farmor some that are smaller.
Some have cattle, some are juststraight grain production.
(02:57):
So they just needed someone toconnect with the producers and
get to know them better andunderstand their needs, their
challenges, and then take allthat information and work with
the science team.
So when we're starting todevelop ideas for trials, we
would then have the producers'information and their point of
view, so I work with them, andthen also all the discussions on
(03:20):
BMPs.
We also involve the FirstNations as well, because it's
their land that is being farmed,and we just want to make sure
that everything that we're doingand working towards also aligns
with the vision that thenations have for their land as
well.
So it's a project that involvesa lot of different components,
(03:41):
a lot of wonderful people, andwe're just bridging it all
together.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Oh, that's wonderful.
I love that.
What are some of the challengesthat you're looking to solve or
to address in the work thatyou're doing?
Speaker 2 (03:54):
So the overall goals of the Living Labs focuses
around reducing greenhouse gasemissions and also increasing
carbon sequestration.
So those are two overall goals.
Our BMP plan is all aboutco-development, and so by
(04:16):
co-development we're reallytalking to the farmers and
approaching them about what arethey having challenges with on
the land they're farming, likewhat do they see issues?
Because they've been farming itfor a number of years and so
they really know the land, andso there's already things that
have come up that they'veidentified like, hey, this is a
problem, we need to fix this.
(04:36):
And so that's where coming tothem and coming up with a plan
with them about the bestmanagement practices is really
important.
I think what's different withthe Living Labs project compared
to other producer programs inthe past, is that a lot of
producer programs, you know,would approach the producer and
(04:56):
be like, hey, we need you to dothis, this and this.
And then the producer would saylike, okay, I'll do that.
Or you know, maybe this programisn't for me, but this one is
flipping it around, and whatwe're doing is we're approaching
the producer and saying, hey,what can we do to help you?
And so sometimes it's it's kindof a hard question.
You know there's not always amaybe a big, glaring answer.
(05:19):
Sometimes a producer might bethinking, well, okay, like what
do you want me to do?
Like it's like well, no, youtell us what you want to do and
we'll help you with that.
So it's nice that the wholetheme of the Living Lab is that
we're dealing with tailored BMPsthat we want to work for that
(05:41):
specific farm, work for thatspecific farm.
Just because a certain BMPmight work for one farm, it
doesn't mean it's going to workfor another, because each farm
has its own challenges.
Maybe it's logistics, or maybeit's people power or whatnot.
So, yeah, we're really big onthe co-development piece for the
(06:01):
BMP development.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
So have you worked in an environment like this before
, where you're asking producerswhat they need as opposed to
providing a request to them?
Speaker 2 (06:12):
No, I've never been in a role quite like this before
, so my background stems frombeing an industry agronomist for
a lot of my career.
So I was working for typicallya large company in egg retail
and my job then was helpingfarmers find a solution, but it
was usually like what can I useto kill this weed or kill this
(06:34):
insect or manage this diseaseand that kind of thing, and it
was more more sales driven, Iguess.
So, yeah, so this has been justa really interesting project,
Like.
What excited me about thisproject was that, you know, it
was maybe just a really goodopportunity to see what we can
do to take farming to that nextlevel as far as BMPs Like a lot
(07:00):
of farmers are already doing alot of good things on their
farms.
Sometimes I think the public or,you know, the consumer they
only hear and maybe see all ofthese negative things associated
with farming but they don'tactually know how much farmers
are doing a good job.
So, for example, minimumtillage or no-till, that
(07:25):
practice started decades ago and, you know, farmers really have
adopted it all over the prairiesand so they've already kind of
raised that bar.
We're not doing recreationaltillage, Like we understand that
the soil can be eroded, and thesoil is the start of everything
.
That's what grows the crop andeverything right.
So farmers are already doing alot of good things.
(07:47):
But, just like with everything,I think you can look at every
industry out there and there'salways room for improvement.
So it's like, okay, we're at ayou know, this kind of level of
best management practices thatis pretty common in the
agriculture industry.
So what's the next level?
What else can we do?
So that's what I thought wasinteresting about this project.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
And are there specific management practices
that you're looking or exploringand testing right now to see if
they would be a BMP?
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Yeah.
So with our living lab we arefocusing on BMP bundles that we
call them.
So our science team believesthat, like, just doing one BMP
on a field might give you a youknow a bit of a difference.
You might see a difference oryou might not all the time, but
(08:38):
if you include three BMPs on afield, that's where you're going
to see the most amount ofimprovement on a field.
So our goal for this project isto have a BMP from three
bundles that we have puttogether applied to each field.
So for our three bundles wehave in-field enhancements, so
(09:02):
that's things like cropdiversification, crop rotation,
maybe incorporating somethinglike cover cropping or
intercropping, trying thosedifferent concepts out.
So that would be bundle numberone.
Our second bundle is to do withlandscape enhancements or
diversification.
(09:23):
So that would be things like dowe have marginal areas in the
field that just aren'tproductive and can we put them
down to permanent cover so we'renot just dumping inputs onto a
piece of the field that's notproviding any economic return
for us?
Providing any economic returnfor us Are there patches of
(09:46):
salinity that aren't growinganything except weeds that you
know we can seed to a permanentcover?
Are there some places that youknow, maybe a corner of the
field that is just alwaysflooded, you know, eight out of
ten years Maybe it used to be awetland.
So can we restore that into awetland?
And just you know, if it wantsto be a wetland, let it be a
wetland, that kind of thing.
We're also looking atimplementing things like
(10:07):
pollinator strips, so justproviding a refuge area for all
those beneficial insects thathelp not only pollinate the
crops but provide a refuge forpredatory insects that actually
eat insect pests that we have todeal with in the field.
So that would be for the secondbundle, and then our third
(10:29):
bundle is to do with inputoptimization, you could call it.
So let's take a look at thefertilizer and the pesticides
that we're applying and arethere some modifications that we
can do there For our fertilizer, are we making sure that we're
applying the 4R principle?
So in the industry, the 4Rsrefer to the right type of
(10:52):
fertilizer product applied atthe right rate of application in
the right place in the field orin the soil and at the right
time of the year.
So are we applying all thoseprinciples to our fields?
And variable rate fertilizerapplication Are we using that in
(11:14):
order to maximize ourfertilizer use efficiency, and
then also looking at our pestmanagement as well.
And then also looking at ourpest management as well, are we
using integrated pest managementprinciples to manage our weeds
and insects and diseases?
If we have to spray aninsecticide, for example, are we
making sure that we're usingthe correct economic threshold
(11:35):
for that insect and we're notjust spraying an insecticide
just because we see a bug outthere that we don't like?
And then there are, dependingon the insect you're trying to
control.
There are some specificinsecticides out there that have
come onto the market that arejust really a lot safer to use
as far as an applicationstandpoint for humans, but also
(11:55):
they're less toxic or evennon-toxic to the non-pest insect
species.
So they're just a better choiceoverall if you're trying to
control a certain insect.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So when you're doing this, is there any shortage of
ideas for testing different BMPs?
Speaker 2 (12:12):
I guess there's not a shortage of ideas, kind of the
sky is the limit, as long asit's something that's an
improvement in what the currentpractice already is.
But it's not always as easy asit sounds either, because
there's a lot of factors thatcome into play for the farmer.
Some of the ideas like maybesomething like intercropping,
(12:32):
which is going to be more laborintensive because you've grown
two crops together and now youhave to separate them in the end
, so there's an extra step afterharvest.
So those kind of things mightbe a draw to some farmers.
But other farmers might justsay you know what I am like
farming way too much, I'm waytoo busy, I just don't have time
(12:53):
for that stuff, right?
So really we need to get backto the co-development piece,
talking with the farmer aboutwhat their needs are, their
ideas and like what really wouldwork for them, and so it's kind
of all back to that, the why.
I guess.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So what are some of the barriers that might come up
when it comes to implementingBMPs?
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So logistics is a big barrier that we deal with again
, with producers that arefarming huge amount of acres,
they're in different places atdifferent times and they have,
in some cases, dozens of peoplethat they already have to manage
, and so for them, when you'readding complexity, you're asking
(13:40):
them to do different practiceson, you know, even just like a
small amount of a field.
It's just one extra littlething that they just might not
have time for.
There's also a level of theirinterest as well.
I guess it comes down to thatneed.
If they really feel likethere's a need for a change of
(14:01):
practice on their farm, thenthey're going to be much more
invested in the amount of timeand effort that it takes to
solve that problem versussomething that you're asking
them to do.
So there's that Cost is alwaysgoing to be one.
A lot of times, if we're askinga producer to adopt a new
technology or try out a newfertilizer product or things
(14:24):
like that, there's usually acost associated with it.
And farmers, they're alreadyrunning a business with really
tight margins that they have topay attention to, so cost is
always going to be way up highon their list, right?
And are they going to get areturn from doing this and
what's the benefit?
High on their list, right?
And are they going to get areturn from doing this and
what's the benefit?
And so that is a challenge forsome of our BMPs, especially
(14:46):
ones that might even be longerterm, like maybe in some areas
we do want to establish, forexample, like some kind of a
pollinator strip, but maybewithin that pollinator strip, we
would like to plant some treesas well.
Well, trees take a long time togrow, right?
So what is the long termpayback from doing this BMP and
(15:08):
is, in the end, is that going topencil out for them?
So cost is is always somethingthat they're definitely looking
at, which is understandablebecause they're running a
business.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yeah, no, of course.
So tell me a bit from your ownperspective.
How is it doing this project inworking with farmers and
producers, in this differentcapacity in testing things in
real world conditions?
How are you finding it, evenjust from a professional
standpoint, to be working onthis project?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
It's been a lot of fun.
I've been involved in farmertrials before and so it's a
realistic way of of doingresearch.
No, I'm not a statistician oranything, so there's there's
always like that component thatscientists have to, you know,
consider when they're trying tomake sense of all the data.
I mean a lot of farmers dotheir own trials to begin with.
(16:05):
They're not even tied to aproject or a program, they're
just always testing things out.
So I think there's already thatinnovation in the producers that
we work with and they'rewanting to see how things work
too.
So in that case it's helpfuland it's engaging.
There's that willingness fromthem to try something new and
(16:28):
really test to see how it workson their farm.
A lot of producers you knowlike there might be their
neighbor might be tryingsomething, but their neighbor is
also farming on maybe differentsoil and with different
equipment and all that stuff, soit doesn't always pertain to
everybody's farm.
So yeah, the on-farm trials arereally valuable and they're
real world conditions andsometimes things turn out.
(16:52):
Sometimes they don't, sometimesthey get seeded on the wrong
field, sometimes they don't.
This is what happens.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Yeah, um.
So so are there anymisconceptions that come up for
ideas for different farmingmethods that simply wouldn't
work here or, um, that aren'tfeasible and it's based in a
misconception of what's reallyhappening here on the ground?
Speaker 2 (17:15):
So good or bad.
There's so much informationonline and um, so someone could
be listening to say a podcast orreading an article or listening
to something, but thatinformation is maybe all based
from the States, and so they'rethinking that they have this
idea of what farming is and howfood production works here based
(17:38):
on you know something theyheard about corn and soybean
growers down in the States whichis completely different than
what we're doing up here, right?
So I think there are a lot ofmisconceptions in how crop
production actually happens uphere.
It comes up with people thatjust are more disconnected from
farming and, like I kind ofaddressed it before, but
recognizing what our farmersalready do.
(18:01):
So, for example, like back tothe you know minimum till thing,
like farmers here have beendoing it for so long that people
forgot what things looked likebefore.
That happened when in the springthe fields would all be black
and then we would have lots ofsummer follow around, where
there's an entire growing season, where you're not letting
anything cover the soil and it'sjust allowed to blow everywhere
(18:23):
.
I mean, I think a lot of peoplehave seen pictures from the
dirty 30s, but that's where thename comes from.
It's from all the soil erosionthat happened during that time
because of all the excessivetillage, and I mean that was
also before herbicides came intoplay, right?
So the farmers really, reallythat was their method of weed
(18:44):
control, was that physical weedcontrol?
But it was also very damagingto the soil and left the soil,
just you know, wide open forwind and water erosion.
But people, now they've theydon't see that anymore.
So they, I don't think theyrecognize what the farmers are
doing now has been animprovement in what has happened
(19:05):
before.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
So I don't know if it's human nature or not to
point out the negative ineverything, but you know, they,
there's always so many negativesthat get thrown at about
farmers but not recognizing allthe strides that we have made as
an industry, I guess Well, andand I'm curious then with the
research that that we have madeas an industry, I guess, well,
and I'm curious then with theresearch that you're doing, is
(19:28):
there a lot of potential withinagriculture and farming to
reduce emissions, to improvecarbon sequestration by changing
certain practices.
Is that something that has alot of?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
potential?
Yeah, I think so.
I mean, fertilizer managementis a big one, especially
nitrogen management.
So that's definitely one of theBMPs that we're focusing on,
but that's also been top of mindfor a number of years now.
I mean, there's research from40 years ago about nitrogen
placement in the soil and whereis it best to apply your
(20:01):
nitrogens?
Although sometimes farmers, eventhough agronomically there is a
benefit of maybe a certainpractice, for example, like a
fertilizer application,sometimes logistics will trump
agronomy.
You know, a farmer might knowthat it's best to, for example,
(20:27):
ban their nitrogen fertilizer tomake sure it's in the soil
versus broadcasting it, forexample, but maybe it's just the
logistics on their operationjust don't allow for the extra
time it takes to ban thefertilizer when broadcasting it
on top is just a faster optionfor their operation size.
(20:48):
So there are thoseconsiderations as well.
And then there are someproducts.
For example, if you are goingto be broadcasting your nitrogen
, there are certain fertilizerproducts or additives that you
could be using to best reducethe losses of the nitrogen if
you are doing that kind ofapplication.
(21:09):
So we talk about agronomics andyou know those best management
practices but again, like,sometimes logistics just doesn't
work and it's.
It all depends on on the farm.
Speaker 1 (21:21):
Well, and then it brings me back to that
co-development piece as to whyit's so important to be working
alongside to to explore thesedifferent options, or to to do
some of the research to find outwhat would be feasible and
implemented at different levels.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
So what are your hopes and goals for your work
with the bridge and witheverything that everyone is
doing in this project?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
I guess the hopes and goals would be just to make it
a change.
You know, if a farmeridentifies something as an issue
having trouble managing evenjust a small piece of one field
that they're farming, and if wecan come up with a plan that is
a long-term solution that fixesthat problem and also opens up
(22:10):
you know, maybe someone's eyesto applying that on a broader
scale, that would be, I guess,the long-term goal.
I guess just really honing inon a field Maybe, for example,
it's just two acres of a cornerof a field that just aren't
producing and you'd think likegeez, it's only two acres.
(22:31):
But I mean, if you take twoacres, multiply that across
multiple fields all across theprairies, that can amount to a
big change.
So I think that would be thegoal is just to get some other
ideas out there.
Let's really hone in and andsee what kind of little changes
we can do and create that youknow ripple effect and see where
(22:51):
it goes, I guess.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Jennifer, that was really wonderful.
Thank you so much for your time.
I really appreciate you sharingyour work and the work that
you're doing with the bridgewith all of us here today.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Thanks, Michelle.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Thanks, Michelle.
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