July 4, 2024 • 42 mins
Join comedian and self-proclaimed "Brofessor" Shane Gillis as he dives into the complex and turbulent history of the Vietnam War. In this episode, Shane breaks down the key events, major players, and lasting impact of one of the 20th century's most controversial conflicts. With his unique blend of humor and insightful commentary, Shane makes history both entertaining and enlightening. Whether you're a history buff or just curious to learn more, this episode is sure to captivate and educate. Tune in for a lesson you won't soon forget!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
France dragged us into this to thepoint and it's like, oh, France
was France owned Vietnam. It wasa colony. Japan took it. When
they went, they got a littlewild, and then the United States liberated
it, and that was the thing. Ho Chi Minh, the guy who
ended up being the leader of theviet Cong, was like, I love
(00:26):
America. He was like he wasright. He was writing letters to Truman,
so like I love you, thankyou. They were like, Americans
are the only free people on earth. These are incredible people. The leader
of them loved America. And thenhe started this is the craziest part.
So France goes back in after thewar and it's like we're taking it back.
(00:47):
And America was like, don't dothat, and we were kind of
siding with Ho Chi Minh and theVietnamese. And then France was like,
this is the beginning of the ColdWar. So France is like, hey,
if you guys don't support us,maybe we'll start listening to fucking Russia.
And then America was like, allright, we'll fucking help you out.
Damn. Anyway, that is interesting. And by the way, speaking
(01:10):
of Ho Chi Minh writing letters toTruman. All those letters were redacted and
like till like nineteen seventy something,and half of them Truman never got because
the Secret Service was like, wow, you guysn't need to see these.
Yeah. Yeah, making those decisionsin those days, everybody made. But
that's the whole thing about Vietnam too. Everybody's making their own decisions, determining.
(01:34):
So the when you have power,you know, when you disperse power
in that way, everybody goes,I'll take this part, and they're all
just like and yeah. And becauseof the Cold War, the Secret Service
and the CIA were like, thisis more important, like the CIA versus
the KGB and Russia and the SovietUnion that became the two superpowers, and
(01:56):
they were doing stuff like undermining thefucking president to be like the war against
Russia's more I mean it was.It's I don't like Vietnam because of how
frustrating and stupid it is. Well, but first of all, the CIA,
when you think about it, theirwhole thing was the Cold War first,
So all the drug dealing that happenedin the seventies and eighties was again
(02:19):
from every cartel to see when they'relike okay, CIA, they would stop
the DEA from doing their job allthe time because they're like the Cold War,
these are anti communists, but they'rethe heads of the cartels. But
they anti communists and that was theirpriority. So they they made that choice.
And I'm sure the president didn't wantto make the choice whoever it was
(02:40):
all those times, but that wasthe choice they always made. Damn.
Then they did just say no,like ten years later, like come on,
guys, don't do joys, butjust say no. They was still
telling the DEA back off, thisguy back off. That so funny because
they were saying, look, wethink communists was the greater threat still in
the late eighties. Crazy. Theywere right. We got a tiny taste
(03:01):
of it here and it's pretty annoyingcommunist fucking blow Yeah, especially when the
communists are rich in like thirty yearsold. Yeah, and getting DUI caught
it eighty two and caught a dui. Anyways, Well I think somebody eighty
(03:23):
two catch in d u. II admired that I do too. Yeah,
I mean that should be free.I should be like, let you
go on that. We going offtopic, cetera. Yeah, Vietnam,
the French. The French are fuckingdickheads. Brutal, they were dickheads.
So they dragged us in. Theywere absolutely dragged us in. They dragged
(03:43):
us in, but we wanted into. I mean we could have left.
We could have left ten we couldlet I mean, if you I read
this book, a bright shining line, just happened to be reading it.
By the way, when if youread a book, it was especially a
kindle, try to find out howmany pages it is. This book's eight
hundred pages. So I was readinglike a bright shining light. Isn't sound
like a long book. Yeah,it's the history of everything. But uh
(04:04):
but France they left. We helpedthem, so there was one would turn
oci been. One of the thingsthat turned them is we decided we supplied
France with all these all the mortarsand everything where they destroyed a lot of
it is the Vietnam. And thatturned yeah, them against America too.
Oh yeah, yeah it was.There was a battle, I forget the
(04:27):
name of it. So I wasjust watching ken Burn's on it. What
is it? Yes, So theFrench were kind of fucking up the Vietnamese.
I mean they had it was thesame as US verus. Then they
had superior firepower. But again,just like time and time again, the
Vietnamese were very good at gorilla warfarebecause we trained them during World War Two.
Yeah, a little fucking you know, Mujahadeen type shit. Yeah.
(04:48):
And they were about to come totalks, France and Vietnam, they were
about to come to the table.Before they went to have talks, they
both tried to get one more offensivein so they had leverage when they went
to talks. Nice. So Francesets up at what they just put themselves
at the bottom of this valley,and they're like, we're just gonna build
(05:11):
an airfield here. We're gonna fuckthem up. One of the French generals
was like, I have too manyguns. We're gonna fuck these dudes up.
Damn. The Vietnamese surrounded them inthis valley and just destroyed them.
The French guy, the general thatled that, killed himself honorably because he
was like, we're gonna wipe thefloor with these guys. Are they going
to valley? Isn't it a badI'm not a military it was a bad
(05:34):
idea. Well, it's funny tosay that because even Quisan the famous fourteen
years later America did the same thing, set themselves up in a it was
surrounded by old the mountains, socreated a valley and set up an airstrip,
a landing strip in the valley andgot killed. Because damn, it's
really amazing. I mean. Theother thing on Vietnam is you realize how
(05:58):
like how you know you think whenyou're young, at least like the people
in charge, they spend all thetime doing this. They know what they're
doing. But there were so manyegos involved that the few people were like,
this is not working. Were justthey were just like, stop,
you don't know what you're saying.Just because of ego. People think oh
they motive was they wanted money.They would still have the money. This
was about like something else, thepower struggle, that where you pay the
(06:21):
price or the troops for the price. It sucks here if you're just some
dude sitting in a village and someguy had an argument and you're just getting
blown up and you're like, whatthe fuck is this about? And the
other on Cody coming grips with that, he was like, no, fuck
it, I'm right. In theearly sixties thatd this Hamlet program where they
would bring they said we're gonna bringall these weapons to each hamlet, all
(06:43):
these little hamlets, because it waskind of half and half like North Korean,
and they put all these weapons toall these hamlets and said, look,
you're in charge of the weapons.It was all American made, modern
stuff. And of course the VietCong, who kind of controlled more or
less, they had the hearts ofthe people. They took all the weapons.
So we supplied the Viet Cong theat least weapons, but in the
early sixties, and he kept themgoing. It genuinely makes me like,
(07:08):
I all my informations from the kenBurns documentary, right, and I watch
it and every time I'm watching it, by episode two, I'm like,
what the fuck is going like,it's yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Well, I don't know if thiswas in the ken Burns documentary, but
did you see the guy? Itis? I think it is. I
saw that kenbine uh Is Beckwith withthe guy and advisor Colonel Beckwith, Oh
(07:33):
yeah, charging Charlie Beckwith and hegoes the interview me and go what do
you think of the Viet Kong.He goes, finest soldier I've ever seen,
This is ninety sixty five. Hegoes what the vida kank he goes
best soldier. I oh wish Ihad two hundred of them under my command
right away, like, oh weshould have. Yeah, someone was up
then well they also they'd been fightingfor thirty years. These dudes have been
(07:58):
fighting since like World War Two.They didn't stop fighting really from World War
Two until the end of Vietnam.They were fighting constantly and their home territory.
Yeah, and then so small theyhad to be crafty. All the
tunnels, all the trails, theyknow everything. Oh fuck yeah, you
know. Was that the First AmericanWar where like the American troops were like,
what the fuck's going? What's thepoint of Yes, the first Korea
(08:20):
I'm sure they were a little bitlike, actually, yeah, Korea,
Korea, we did mcaul career.Yeah, macauthur everybody was like, don't
do this. Macauthur's like, Ilove the people loved him. Yeah,
the Korean people like this guy's willsay it. And he just was like
a king over there, and thenhe just said we're gonna do it this
way. I forget. He landedon the coast, so he did something
(08:41):
that was strategically a nightmare. Andeven his generals are like don't do this.
What are you doing? And hegoes, I know what I'm doing,
and yeahtinc he referred to himself fromthe third person. Yeah, yeah,
he was wild. MacArthur was wild. You might get a bad rap
though. I kind of like him. Yeah, No, he was loved.
Look, the people loved him becausehe Japan loved it because after World
(09:03):
War Two, they were expecting becausethey were so horrendous during World War Two,
they expected him to really bear thatand he treated them like, he
said, you treat these people likehuman beings. So how many these people
treat him like a god? Sohe felt like a god that's tough to
shake off. That would get me. Yeah, I was getting like Samurai
glory. I'm like, yeah,you know what he was like, presenting
(09:24):
you swords and those suits, Likewho do I? I think that's why
God never even let me sell outlike the Beacon or something like that.
He keeps me in a level ofthree to four hundred seats on the road.
And there's a reason for oh man, So yeah, what was it?
So chronologically, the French dreight,so we were like bos the French
(09:46):
colony. Then there's World War two, Yapan takes over and and like always
when Japan would invade every all theAsian countries were like, nice, finally
the fucking white colon colonists are gone. We're gonna get treated well. And
they immediately get starved to death.And then they added and fucked with it.
Sucks. So then when the Americansliberated Vietnam and the British whoever,
(10:07):
they were like, fuck, yeah, we love America. Then France after
World War Two, who just gottheir fucking ass whooped. Yeah, yeah,
they're like, actually we want thosecolonies back. Nice. Yeah,
and you know, and Vietnam waslike, no, this is ours.
Now we're independent again. So thendo they have to write a letter to
Vietnam like hey, buddy, uhwe're coming back. Yeah uh so yeah,
(10:31):
sorry, well we should start chronologically. Yeah, let you I watched
is fucking ken Burns. What arewe talking about? Whatever you want,
you said. And then so thenFrance when they lost you know what I
mean, the Geneva talks Geeva.I think it was the first Geneva talk
back then maybe not, but thenGeneva, you know, and and then
(10:58):
we went in I and I said, we're just going to arm them in
the fifties. You know, we'rejust going to keep arming them because we
don't want communism to spread down there. And then uh, because China,
they were China taken over Vietnam,but Vietnam wasn't work because they would have
common like he said, by thatpoint, Bejjiman was pro America until that
horrible event whether France destroyed like allthese innocent villages, and then he turned
(11:22):
on America because we supplied France inden food. When they got America started
supplying France because the only way Frenchcould get anything was air drops because they
were in a fucking valley getting destroyed, like eight thousand French dudes. Did
Jesus? Uh Again though the Vietnameselost like three to one casualties, but
(11:43):
they were like that's a victory.Yes, they would get fucking wiped out
constantly. Yeah, that was wasthat one quote, like all we have
to do is just stay here andjust die and yeah, that was the
one that one of the Vietnamese soldierslike, all we have to do is
just not become extinct and we win. That's that's great. Well, that's
the problem with everything, I mean, And he's saving anywhere the people who
live there, they have nowhere togo. Yeah, they're like, well,
(12:07):
you know your trap, a trappedrat is gonna fight to the death.
Yeah. But then, yeah,it got to the point where in
the they're talking about like the UnitedStates was literally funding eighty percent of the
French versus Vietnamese War. We weregiving France eighty percent of the budget to
win the war. Yeah. Yeah, France sucks. France did a bad
(12:28):
job. And then they left,and then we decided it was such a
it's such a weird I look atit so like psychologically, like what I
understand about the common the domino theorywas part of it, but yeah,
the psychological mindset you put yourself into. There was this guy Harkens, the
general. He was the guy thatran it, and he was the He
is really responsible to many ways becausewe go back and tell the president these
(12:50):
guys it's going good. But eventhen the president is the ambassadors, they
all went along. It just goesto show. I mean, I quote
my mother all the time. Icould rest us all, but she used
to always say, people and Isee this deeper and deeper in everything,
and this is a perfect example.People are attracted to bullshit and if you
offer them something that's quality or truthfuland bullshit, they go for the bullshit
(13:13):
every time. And I said tomy mother at the time, I go,
that's true most of the times.Because I didn't say most of the
time. I said every time.And Vietnam is a perfect example because he
was this guy Vanned. This wholebook breakshin lines about this guy Vanned.
It was in Vietnam for he wasthe early guy. And he's like,
look, we're gonna lose. Here'swhat's happening. The Hamlets were giving away
guns, the communists that take it. We're bombing village we were search to
(13:35):
destroy in nineteen sixty three Jesus,and he goes, we're losing everybody.
We got to either win them overthrough like social revolution, the corruption of
the South Vietnamese. They're taking everything. Their special forces that we trained are
destroying people. This is terrible.We're losing. And everybody, even the
people that kind of knew better,just went like oh and was like no,
(13:58):
we're just gonna do this, andthey're like, oh, okay,
let's do that. And it wasn'tthat it was easier, and they almost
like will themselves into like have youever been involved in like a TV or
movie project, right, and everyone'ssitting there and you started going, it's
got to be this, And thenslowly you start to go, oh,
yeah, now that. And thensomebody that wasn't involved in the first month
(14:20):
walks in and goes, are youguys all gone crazy? And yes you
have, and this is good.You start to believe it. You getting
this stupid and that's what I thinkhappened in Vietnam with military, you know,
on the set of Aquaman six,and you're like, this still is
good. And you even go toa screening of a movie. And then
I've got to screenings of movies andyou'll sit there and be like, that
(14:43):
movie is really good. If you'rearound the movie, you know the cast,
you know the people, it wasgood, it was wed. And
then if I've been with people thatgo, are you crazy that ship?
And I'm like, I was ina state of temporary and Saturday, and
I feel like that's what happened.The domino effect bothers me. It just
(15:05):
annoys me. You don't like dominoes, Obviously you don't. Obviously I crushed
dominoes. No you don't, I'lltell you. You don't like. You
don't like that slippery slope theory that'sbasically the domino effect. I agree,
I don't want it. When itcomes to well, why we were in
Vietnam was they were like, well, if China's influenced in the Soviet influence
gets Vietnam, they're going to getall of Southeast Asia. Yeah, and
(15:26):
it's like so well, but atthe time, Russia had just taken all
of Eastern Europe in the early fifties. All right, I'll take Vietnam.
What the fuck happened? What happenedVietnam? Yes, well, that's what
I'm saying. It was. Isaid it was a it was a weird
narcotic state where where you know,it's been kind of a thing after World
(15:48):
War Two. It's gone now,but where we're like, no, we
don't really, we don't really faileverybody wants to do. Everybody wants this
because it works a little, notjust World War two. The Marshall Plan
even worked because we're dealing with allthese countries and suddenly they're coming back.
By nineteen sixties fifties, Germany's evenback. So we're like the benign guys
(16:10):
that we controlled things that but everybody'skind of like getting a thing. Who
wants to be on the team.And then you know, we didn't realize
it was a whole undercurrent. Solike the overcurrent is Europe, then the
undercurrent is the colonies. So allthe colonies were being starting in the only
fifties from Africa to you know,South americ and yeah, so there was
(16:32):
that whole thing going on. Youknow, the spots was so much going
on, isn't it. We allYeah, so it was kind of a
weird. It was an interesting timelycommunism appealing to that. Yeah, you
absolutely, well, like Cuba,look at Cuba with the old mafia thing
(16:52):
and it was such an interesting thingwhere it was like, you know,
they're letting all these capitalist things andthen they were like no Castro came in
and you know what I mean,they even though Cuba failed, they didn't
like the corruption level that was goingon, the same thing as South Vietnam.
Yeah, we it was the thingwe propped up some fucking dumb ass,
propped up a dumb ass, andwe would never get rid of it.
(17:14):
And then as soon as you sawthat part we were watching it.
We propped up this dude who justimmediately started persecuting the Buddhists, absolutely started.
Yep. His wife was a fuckingmonster who was like, good,
I'm glad they're burning themselves. Brother. Yeah, they were just morons.
Yes, And we couldn't back offbecause we we were like, it's still
better than communism. Meanwhile, HochiMin was kind of fucking cool, right,
(17:37):
he liked us at the beginning.Yeah, he wasn't totally into this
thing, and then yeah, yeah, stuff, he came a system.
Now did you know a lot ofguys that were in Vietnam. I knew
a few. Yeah, I wasa kid. I was a kid doing
the whole thing, you know.And I remember it was a little kid.
You'd watch it was on the newsevery every day at five and six
o'clock, you'd see the footage forVietnam. So it was like such a
(18:00):
point. It wasn't like I wasshocked because I wasn't from the generation before
that. That was all I knew. I was seventy eight years old,
nine years old, but I rememberseeing footage of Vietnam all the time on
TV, in the news, andit was just a contant thing. And
I remember one time in class wewere talking about Vietnam. This is probably
seventy one, maybe seventy and theteacher or the kids were going, yeah,
(18:22):
Vietnam is bad. And this girlin a class starts screaming and crying
because a brother got killed in Vietnam. And so I knew probably three guys,
older guys that hang out with me. But I mean I knew three
guys that were Marines at Vietnam thatgot wounded, that came home, and
they all had those cliche marine personalities. I mean, Vietnam vet the army
(18:49):
jacket by themselves, the big beardswhen they're home, heavy drinker, the
heavy smoker, you know, proneto outbursts, but still good guys like
they will guys we lie, youknow. They weren't like people hung out
with them and talked to them.But they had that other side to them,
partly from being in the war,partly from what they did, partly
(19:11):
from what Vietnam did, and partlyfrom their reaction when they came home.
It wasn't like you walk around.People weren't going thank you for your service,
you know. Yeah, so Iknew a few guys. Yeah,
Yeah, that was the thing wewere talking about. O'Connor brought this up.
We were talking about last night.He's like, imagine, so imagine
today's fucking college student. Imagine beinga fucking a dude who got drafted and
(19:33):
had to go live through fucking hell, and then you get home and one
of these fuckers throws like a bagof piss at you, and it's like
baby killer. Right, Oh mygod, that's when I would join the
Ohio National Guard and state that's such. That's so. Yeah. But but
(19:57):
it was interesting that they all didhave that per personality. Yea, even
the guys I knew guy across through. My friend's brother was a Vietnam Vet
that didn't fight. He was aairplane mechanic, and even he was screwed
fucked up from him. Yeah.My uncle, my uncle was a marine
and he never talks about it ever, Like literally never talks about One night
(20:18):
he and I got drunk and heopened up about it. Really was.
It was wild. He saw afucking chinook get hit and just spun and
dud dudes flew everywhere. I mean, it was. Now. My other
uncle was in Vietnam and he isa little more I don't get, he's
a little more sociopath like psycho.That's like, I killed a guy.
(20:40):
Yeah, And I was like,how is that? And it was just
me and him, and he goes, it's fucking incredible. I was like,
yo, yo, I told youI knew a guy who was a
sniper. And he was saying,he's like, you get addicted to the
feeling of killing people. And he'slike and he was like, he was
a nice dude. He's like,I didn't have any I didn't have like
ill will towards people. But he'slike you, I like would watch people
(21:00):
eat dinner and as soon as theyfinish, right in the head, he's
look at twelfth one. He's like, you get like a god complex and
you're like, I'm ending this,damn. Yeah. He's the guy in
Vietnam. I've told you this before. It was it was like a ninety
degree trail and you couldn't see aroundthe corner. So he's walking one way.
A viet Cong was walking up thepath. He said. They literally
(21:21):
bumped into each other in the jungleand then it was just a race to
see who could get their who couldget their gun out faster, and he
got his out. Wus Christ.Now, don't get he's still I mean,
and then he got fucked up.He got hit with a he got
hit with a rock and propelled grenadeand he blew his his nipples missing his
calf's off. Yeah, and hehad to lay there because they're in the
(21:41):
middle of a firefight. He hadto lay there for three hours on the
jungle floor like I'm dead, I'mdying. Sure, I mean, he's
yeah Nile hero, Yeah yeah,yeah, But I mean, and is
it that different from like my fatherwas in Korea and Korean and he said
(22:02):
the most disturbing point was, whichis still chilling, that the lieutenants of
the officers would nightly bring in theKorean prisoners and beat the living shit out
of them and always like, hey, Brooklyn, you want a peace and
he's like, no thanks, andthey would just like beat the just torture
the guys, just beat them forfun. So it's already starting to lose
the uh yeah yeah, the gamarWorld War two and then but Vietnam is
(22:26):
a different, Like I feel likethey this this setup even though it happened
in World War Two, it happensin every war. The setup of search
and destroy is what fucked them allup, because here you are you grow
up in the fifties, you're watchingthese movies, you have a little bit
even if you're not innocent, youknow, you know, you're capable of
but you're still uh. And thensuddenly you're in the middle of this thing
(22:48):
where they go, no, youhave to burn all these hamlets because,
like I said, the Hamlet program, the Vietnamese took over the hamlets.
So they go and the Vietnamese arein there, and whether they or not,
they're in enough where like, okay, it's them and me. And
so you're torturing all these peasants outof their house, torturing, torching the
bill. That's like the that's thestrategy. How long that strategy? How
(23:12):
long do they do the whole time? The whole time was down, Yeah,
from nineteen sixty and they said,even that's more Morey Safer was the
fan, you know, the guyfrom sixty minutes. I was still this
fucking annoying guy, you know.But meanwhile he was a reporter and he
had the they filmed in nineteen sixtyfive Torching of a Hamlet nineteen sixty five,
(23:36):
early in the war, and that'swhen everyone started protesting the Vietnam War.
Because they watched on TV like wait, this is like liberating France.
What's going on here? It wasjust all these peasants running, They're torching
the house and shooting the pigs likethat was on the national news, Jesus
on the evening news. That's whatyou were watching. Well I don't remember
that, but I'm saying, butpeople shot the whole country. That's when
(23:57):
they protest because were the good guyslike check us out, never like boo.
No. The news was like,hey, this is crazy because the
news was doing their fucking job andthey're like, here's what's actually happening.
No, right, did you show? And Molly Safer had to leave like
they were threading him because they weresaying if you get out of context,
(24:17):
he didn't, which you probably did. I'm saying they were saying that they'd
been getting shot, like Marien's hadgotten shot from that building. So I'm
saying it wasn't like, you know, it's not just us evil and everybody
else is good either. But imean, but it was a stupid strategy.
See, this is what it wascrazy because the French had just done
it before us. Yes, sothey did this thing called pacification where they
(24:40):
were like, we're gonna They triedto do the social set like they were
like, we're gonna help build yourrice patties up, We're gonna give you
food, We're gonna build schools.And during the day it worked, and
then at night the Vietcan would comein take the food, the fucking guns,
hide guns in the villages, hideweapons, hide soldiers. So then
during the day they'd come back andthey just keep getting supplies and they do
(25:03):
raids from the villages with the weaponsand ship the French gave them. And
then so the French would come backand be like, we know you're harboring
communists, and they would burn thefucking village down. And then we did
that. We did the exact samething. And then the under the thing
of like we don't want communism tospread, which is funny to be like
we don't want cops. You wantto be free guys here, trust me,
and like burn just down and trustme. This is well. And
(25:26):
I think you're doing the same thingkind of in Afghanistan, right and Iraq,
We're gonna give you guys money,work with us. And then the
tal Ban comes in at night andthere's like puts a gun to their head,
and it's like, we'll do workwith us. Yeah, I mean,
that's all problem with everything, right, if you go to some you
know, if the cops go toa neighborhood bar, the only analogias and
(25:48):
everything is neighborhood ball. But ifthey go to neighborhood ball and go,
listen, we want you, wewant you guys to do a couple of
troublemakers in here. And the troullmakers are in there, well, they're
outside. Way for these guys toleave. Yeah, they're not there.
They're only gonna be there part.They know you're going to leave. You're
not there to stay forever. Soit always ends up screwing you, you
know. Yeah, And if wedon't kill them at night, they're gonna
(26:11):
come get fucking behead. Is whathappened in Vietnam once they took over,
exactly. They can't boy all thatstuff. They just destroyed. They genocide
got rid of everybody that bugged themin. Everybody with a pair of glasses,
you know what I mean. It'slike they how'd you get those?
They literally went, Well, itjust anybody who was so so fancy themselves,
(26:32):
intellectual. It was like they it'slike the army came in and literally
just rampage through Bushwick, Williamsburg andGreenpoint in the past three years. Everybody
here show at a bookstore, burnthe bookstores. Yeah, it's uh.
I mean, that's the thing aboutit. That's why I never really got
(26:55):
into Vietnam. You know. Ilike the Civil War in World War two
where it's like kind of noble,right, and then Vietnam is the first
one that's like, well, it'sso. But even Korea was like a
harbygear. It's all like Korea psychological. And another uncle who fought in World
War two and fought with Audie Murphy. Who Audie Murphy was. No,
(27:15):
he's a famous he's the most famousWorld War War two hero. Okay,
they made him a movie. Sawhe wasn't a good actor, but he
was this legendary war to my uncle. Happened to me in his unit.
Oh wow. And he said thatall the hype g show the difference in
the war, all the hype abouthim was was true. He goes,
this guy was the bravest. Hegoes, he was so crazy. He'd
(27:36):
run right into battle. They wereat Anzio. They were to Battle of
the ball, all these places hegoes, he would just run right into
battle his nuts, and in thosedays they'd celebrate that. Even even uh,
you know, any movie about Iraq, there's still an undertone of darkness.
All the War War two movies,they're like, hey, there's no
problem here. Yeah Ki the asYeah, like this guy's great, like
(28:00):
a positive like John John basilone hewas. He was in the Pacific.
There's a rest stop in New Jersey, like one of the first rest out.
That's what he got out of it. He got the Medal of Honor.
He was. He that's awesome.He fucking it's in the Pacific and
the ship like he goes wild,picks up his gun without the fucking heat
pad, just mows down the andthen he goes home. So they put
(28:22):
him on a USO tour and sellfucking bonds and he's like, no,
I need to go back and fight. So then he goes to and is
like, I'm gonna do that gunthing again? What and he died?
Oh no, yeah, but hegot yeah yeah yeahs towards the Vietnam he
(28:45):
he did one and he's like,send me back and didn't give me one
more. Who did it? Mymom's cousin. Wow, Wow, he
did three. He was because hewas like fucking, I'm not going back.
I'm gonna do it. And whatdid he end up doing after the
I saw him like spazzing fighting anarcade owner or the boardwalk one time.
Charlie. Dude, he was Butthat's the whole point. Yeah, he
(29:06):
was with my mom the one timewhen they were younger and he was sleeping
in the car and some guy likescreamed something at my mom and he like
popped up and was just got outand beat the ship up. They were
in traffic on the highway and beatthe ship out of the guy and throw
him on the side of the road. And he's like a sco Imagine that
guy. He sees a woman ina car, He's like, fuck,
guy, just pops up Vietnam threetours. I think it was like seventy
four. Just pops up, Likewhat you imagine? Three toys? I
(29:29):
mean that's a really that's what Imean. Two toys is crazy. But
at least you feel like during thesecond tour of the guy's like, fuck,
what did I say yesterday? Yeah, But if you go for three,
that means you're like all the way. Yeah, that's when I told
the guy. The dude I wastalking to he was actually is my ex
father in law. I was talkinghim about. I was telling him about
my mom's cause he's like, oh, that guy just likes scaling people.
Yeah, And I was like maybe, I mean he probably just there's also
a guy. Everyone's got the thing. You go there, you go there,
(29:52):
and then you go home and you'relike, I can't be home after
you're just in the fucking jungle.Yeah killing Now you got to go pretend
to be a human. Yep.Yeah, so you get off the road
for a long time. Ye say, it happens to cops. It happens
to cops. Friends. Was that, Yeah, it happens the cops.
They got addicted to that drenalized stateand go home. They're like this sucks,
(30:15):
Sure they stay there forever. Butthe other thing was Vietnam, which
I've watched a lot of those YouTubeguys with a interview and you see the
similarities in them eventually, and oneof them is that they said they got
screwed. First of all, justimagine this supposed to be the country setting
all his money for aid. Theyone guy was several of them said the
(30:36):
Sea rations were terrible. He goes. We looked at the date on some
of them. They were Korean andWorld War two. Yikes, that's old.
The Sea rations, Jesus said,they give them the troops that supposedly
the richest time in our history.And the other one is the M fourteen.
They said the M sixteen got moreguys killed when they switched to the
M sixteen because west Moreland wanted orone of these guys just it was like
(30:57):
a vanity project. The M fourteenwouldn't jam in the mud jammed, and
they said guys would just be gettingkilled, baying edded to death because it
would jam and you couldn't en jamit. Oh fuck, and they did.
The M fourteen was the early gunwas better. That sucks. Yeah,
America really fucked up. I don'tlike it, but yeah, the
(31:18):
whole thing, the whole thing wasjust me out and then each president had
an opportunity to fucking end it,and they all just keep fucking dragging it
out. But does what I mean, That's what I'm saying about that state.
Kennedy. Yeah, he was closeto ending it. He was,
he was, but he wasn't.And they said, and this guy Van
was talking to Henry coppytt Lodge,he was the ambassador. All the guys
(31:41):
were close to Kennedy, and itwas just one of those things where it's
like just at the last way,It's like any other decision you've seen in
any power person where you like,everybody has this logical argument and then they
go, no, I think thisis better, and you're like, what
why you don't give us a reason? And he did never give us a
(32:02):
reason. There was Was there anykind of economic advantage that like was clear?
I don't think so really there wasany there. I mean the rubber
all the ship that was there wasgone. We rubber coats, all the
rice, it was all gone.I mean we fucking killed it. Damn.
(32:23):
I mean Agent Orange. I mean, when you think about it,
Agent Orange killing all the people thatthey said they are levels of whatever dios
dioxing with three times anybody else bythe time we left, and all the
troops I mean doing is your owntroops. It's just crazy. I mean
that's the height of like immorality.You know, just the guys that are
(32:44):
there fighting and you're just like,yeah, well, you know, it's
like no, no, the otherones. You have to really try to
be a little more careful with theopposite of what you're doing. It was
really a weird situation. You know. Also the French were using napalm too,
there were before us. Yeah,they were. We did everything they
did. Sounds like a French wordexact, Yeah, yeah, you know,
(33:05):
there's yeah jel Yeah. It's likepetroleum jail and they light on fire
and you spread it. If youtouch it just goes on your body.
It burns and water makes it worse, right because if you gets worse,
ye stinks. And I mean butFrance really wanted Vietnam so well, they
had him before that. Yeah,they wanted it back, must I mean,
(33:28):
they had it, they lost it. They're like, we get this
back. They want their baby back. Sad fire on people. Yeah,
what is it about Vietnam? That'sso because we apparently wanted it to We
went in there in the mid fiftiesand we couldn't leave. You ever go
to a party and you're like,I gotta leave, this party is over.
Oh yeah, and it's like,so you know what, you gotta
get out, do some coke.You're saying. Left at eleven o'clock like
(33:52):
I planned to. That's Vietnam.It's probably just a psychological thing. It's
like you want to be the bestgeneral. You start losing, You're like,
fuck, fuck, we got this, we got this. It's like
no, no, no, weshould have this. Hear me out.
This is my passion project, thisis my baby. Yeah. I mean
that's the other thing. Everybody wasjust you know, the military, like
their job is to get more moneyfor the military. How can you get
more money if you're not in nowar? You know, So, how
(34:14):
did that? What? What doyou like? How does this thing progress?
What do you do? How's itend? What's going on Vietnam?
I mean it look it ended whenwe left. It was the most it
was. Really, they're lucky.It was the mid seventies. It was
like seventy five, that famous rooftest site. They're lucky because by then
everybody was like the Age of apathy. When I was a teenager, people
(34:35):
just into drugs, you know,dancing, and you know, it was
just a very hedonistic time. Peoplehad done all the protesting that happened in
the sixties, people were done bythe seventies, you know what I mean,
And they just like yeah, yeah, yeah, and so when people
left, it wasn't even there wasn'teven outrage. It was like, oh
that was that was awkward. Itwas a bomber. That was just yeah,
(34:59):
people just like yeah, and youfeel bitful the people that, you
know, all the Vietnamese that wasstill helping us by the end. What
fucked Yeah, like that that theygot killed. That helicopter on the roof.
The hell come to that picture.That's a long line. Yeah,
and that's the last chopper. That'sright, those boards are staying, and
that's that's your fucking negative time.Yeah, when that chopper takes off and
(35:22):
you're like next in line, Likefuck, I got earlier. I was
at long with gardens, waiting fora shuttle to they go see the shuttles
like you ask. I had towait like fifteen more minutes and motherfucker.
Yeah, I don't know what happened. It settled down. It's better now.
It's not that that's not tearing.The damage is done. I mean
(35:42):
that's the thing. The power shiftimmediately. Yeah, and all the people,
like when you think about the peopleright now in your life that you
were like, ah, fuck you, and then if suddenly they're in power,
they go where is this son ofa bitch? Astoria? Where does
you live again? Yeah? Andthen you know you just hope they,
you know, will accidentally mistake youfor Mike Feeniean. Yeah. But what's
(36:06):
it like? So you had yougrew up watching Vietnam and what was it
like for you to see like theIraq War? Was that the older I
get, the more like I Ibelieved that we there were weapons of man's
destruction. They got you, theygot me. I believed it all the
way. I said, there's gotto be weapons of man's destructure. It
wouldn't be this, you know,they wouldn't be on to this extreme after
Vietnam. They wouldn't be They're notgoing to be fool twice, wouldn't be
(36:29):
this guy. I said. Theycan't be that stupid, you know,
or diabolical either way. I said, there's no way there's not weapons and
man's destruction. There wasn't. Imean, I was a kid. Me
and the Senate believed this. Yeah, you and Hillary Clinton? Yeah,
I was a kid. And itwas two thousand and three. Yeah,
so I was fresh off nine toeleven. Yeah, I was an eighth
grade fucking patriot. Yeah. Itwas pretty much a true Yeah, yeah,
(36:51):
I had four years later i'd begoing to West Point. Yeah they
had. I was ready. Yeah, but yeah, you know Iraq,
I was pomped. I was watchingremember when the thing should get into West
Point? You know, that's ahard school to get into it. He
was it? You did? Yeah? Yeah, wow, I went.
I pressed you did? Yeah,well I quit right away, but I
went, that's impressive. Yeah,but you have to get in your get
(37:12):
your place. I played football.That helped. Oh yeah, they got
me in for that. You knowwhat's interesting about Vietnam, which I realized,
we all had armie jackets in themid seventies, early seventies, seventies.
Everybody will Vietnam the green army jacket, like that was the biggest style.
And it was Vietnam. Bet itwas Vietnam close. So even though
nobody really welcomed them home, thatwas a really important part of the style.
(37:34):
That's funny case people dressed like instructionworkers now here. Yeah that's right,
Like, yeah, that's weird.Yeah, you dressed like somebody who
works harder than you. True,that's right. But yeah, so what
did you get the witness Like dudescoming home and getting kind of treated like
shit. No, but I butI definitely, like I said in class,
that girl's brother day. Yeah,and like I said, I knew
(37:55):
the Vietnam bets, but they didn'tget treat like shit in my in my
neighborhood. I mean, but becauseeverybody's like, oh they went to Vietnam,
it was like it was a consequentialthing. There was mostly like a
protest or at the airports, butI mean in general, was it looked
at it as kind of like ashame, like he went. No,
not a shame, but there wassomething like like it was a serial,
(38:15):
like everybody knew, like these guyswent through something that was a little different
from like World Warshare and stuff.And they had long hair, so even
the patriotic people would were like thisguy's or like, you know, the
hair. But they were you know, they were great guys. I mean,
some of them were really great guys. You know, they weren't that
(38:37):
fucked up. But they get wastedat night. But everybody in those days
was different, Like they weren't like, oh that guy Drakes because he's a
Vietnama. People were getting fucked upall the time. Everybody's smoking weed,
everybody had long hair, everybody hadLomie jackets, and everybody's just kind of
insane. So it was it soundsawesome, It was kind of awesome,
but there was something different at leastaround then at that time. You know,
(38:59):
I need to bring it back,but I need to get way more
militant. My weed smoking jacket,sucking up right now, it's funny to
be sucked up and smoking weed likeit is like just dark. I needed
to be, like, it isweird that our biology rejects burning villages.
(39:19):
Some will you know, if youdo it, fuck you up. It's
tough coming back a god. ButI mean, the tragedy is that they
were That was literally the strategy thatthey were told to do. So what
does that do to you? You'relistening to the people that you don't make
those decisions a chain of command sayingburn the villages. You can't really half
asset really, Oh my god.I read a horrible book. It was
(39:42):
just witness guys that had done atrostitiesin Vietnam. It was just an oral
history from guys that have done thingsat Vietnam. And I'll tell you,
I remember one quote. Somebody said, you'll never be surprised. You're going
to be shocked. Some guy wastalking to some other reporter of somebody going
over there and goes you, you'regonna be shocked at the cruelty of a
(40:04):
nineteen year old American boy, likeand what they'll what they'll be capable of
by the time they leave. Imean, that's the guy. That's what
happened. That's the thing. Everyone of these wars, every one of
these atrocities is nineteen year old,twenty year old boys with they've been killing
people for a year. Sure,they're gonna they're gonna go wid Yeah.
Once one of your friends get shot, it's like, all right, well
fuck ya. We'd be the samefucking way. Yeah, of course,
(40:25):
I mean do varying degrees. Somepeople would love it more than other people.
We'd all be the same way.Yeah, you would love it.
What war? Yeah, no,A trust committing atrocity, Yeah, I'd
hate you. You would be Suckme up. I've being a long hair
in the jacket so quick, what'sgoing on? I don't know that would
be I mean, you know,because there's like I think they just gas
you up enough to get you overthere, and then it's like your friend
(40:47):
gets shot then getting drafted. Dude. True, yeah, think of that,
You've got about that drafted? Yeahof that, you're just yeah,
you're in college. Like even theguys just like I decided to drop off
one semester, they go so theminute I dropped out, they got me.
Like they were watching people to makesure the minute they got out of
there, like get that fucking guy. They're probably like finding out their grades.
Alike, get this, he's gonnadrop. Michael played basketball just to
(41:10):
get out of it. He playedbasketball west Chester to get out of it.
Like, yeah, who did MichaelJack? He was? He played.
He was like, oh he wasoff the perfect age you get drafted,
and he just pooped it up.My dad was graduated college or high
school in seventy four mm, sohe didn't he got a draft card,
but he was. My dad wasalways make fun of him for being a
draft out. He got a drafted, he got a draft card. He
didn't get drafted, but yeah,seventy four or ended, people were trying
(41:34):
to get out of there. Warended, but it was funny to it's
fun to make fun. He probablyhad the last year the draft, draft
probably ended. Something have been sonice and you see it was cool.
It was cool to be anti warwhen you were young. Sure, yeah,
oh yeah, no, that waslike the hip thing. Oh so
you're saying like the sanctioned station showswere just kind of yeah, like most
of you knew, like there wassquares. Even though we're little kids,
we did they're squares. So theshows at that time were supporting in a
(41:58):
horrific war and like a horrific butthey were really supportive. But you just
kind of knew that that was likethe way it was in a weird way,
you could sense like that was hewas a school bus driver, that
was a Vietnam guy really, andhe was fired. He would get fired.
That's a good people, that's agood buster. Yeah, that's a
good bus driver. Guy who's seen
France dragged us into this to thepoint and it's like, oh, France
was France owned Vietnam. It wasa colony. Japan took it. When
they went, they got a littlewild, and then the United States liberated
it, and that was the thing. Ho Chi Minh, the guy who
ended up being the leader of theviet Cong, was like, I love
(00:26):
America. He was like he wasright. He was writing letters to Truman,
so like I love you, thankyou. They were like, Americans
are the only free people on earth. These are incredible people. The leader
of them loved America. And thenhe started this is the craziest part.
So France goes back in after thewar and it's like we're taking it back.
(00:47):
And America was like, don't dothat, and we were kind of
siding with Ho Chi Minh and theVietnamese. And then France was like,
this is the beginning of the ColdWar. So France is like, hey,
if you guys don't support us,maybe we'll start listening to fucking Russia.
And then America was like, allright, we'll fucking help you out.
Damn. Anyway, that is interesting. And by the way, speaking
(01:10):
of Ho Chi Minh writing letters toTruman. All those letters were redacted and
like till like nineteen seventy something,and half of them Truman never got because
the Secret Service was like, wow, you guysn't need to see these.
Yeah. Yeah, making those decisionsin those days, everybody made. But
that's the whole thing about Vietnam too. Everybody's making their own decisions, determining.
(01:34):
So the when you have power,you know, when you disperse power
in that way, everybody goes,I'll take this part, and they're all
just like and yeah. And becauseof the Cold War, the Secret Service
and the CIA were like, thisis more important, like the CIA versus
the KGB and Russia and the SovietUnion that became the two superpowers, and
(01:56):
they were doing stuff like undermining thefucking president to be like the war against
Russia's more I mean it was.It's I don't like Vietnam because of how
frustrating and stupid it is. Well, but first of all, the CIA,
when you think about it, theirwhole thing was the Cold War first,
So all the drug dealing that happenedin the seventies and eighties was again
(02:19):
from every cartel to see when they'relike okay, CIA, they would stop
the DEA from doing their job allthe time because they're like the Cold War,
these are anti communists, but they'rethe heads of the cartels. But
they anti communists and that was theirpriority. So they they made that choice.
And I'm sure the president didn't wantto make the choice whoever it was
(02:40):
all those times, but that wasthe choice they always made. Damn.
Then they did just say no,like ten years later, like come on,
guys, don't do joys, butjust say no. They was still
telling the DEA back off, thisguy back off. That so funny because
they were saying, look, wethink communists was the greater threat still in
the late eighties. Crazy. Theywere right. We got a tiny taste
(03:01):
of it here and it's pretty annoyingcommunist fucking blow Yeah, especially when the
communists are rich in like thirty yearsold. Yeah, and getting DUI caught
it eighty two and caught a dui. Anyways, Well I think somebody eighty
(03:23):
two catch in d u. II admired that I do too. Yeah,
I mean that should be free.I should be like, let you
go on that. We going offtopic, cetera. Yeah, Vietnam,
the French. The French are fuckingdickheads. Brutal, they were dickheads.
So they dragged us in. Theywere absolutely dragged us in. They dragged
(03:43):
us in, but we wanted into. I mean we could have left.
We could have left ten we couldlet I mean, if you I read
this book, a bright shining line, just happened to be reading it.
By the way, when if youread a book, it was especially a
kindle, try to find out howmany pages it is. This book's eight
hundred pages. So I was readinglike a bright shining light. Isn't sound
like a long book. Yeah,it's the history of everything. But uh
(04:04):
but France they left. We helpedthem, so there was one would turn
oci been. One of the thingsthat turned them is we decided we supplied
France with all these all the mortarsand everything where they destroyed a lot of
it is the Vietnam. And thatturned yeah, them against America too.
Oh yeah, yeah it was.There was a battle, I forget the
(04:27):
name of it. So I wasjust watching ken Burn's on it. What
is it? Yes, So theFrench were kind of fucking up the Vietnamese.
I mean they had it was thesame as US verus. Then they
had superior firepower. But again,just like time and time again, the
Vietnamese were very good at gorilla warfarebecause we trained them during World War Two.
Yeah, a little fucking you know, Mujahadeen type shit. Yeah.
(04:48):
And they were about to come totalks, France and Vietnam, they were
about to come to the table.Before they went to have talks, they
both tried to get one more offensivein so they had leverage when they went
to talks. Nice. So Francesets up at what they just put themselves
at the bottom of this valley,and they're like, we're just gonna build
(05:11):
an airfield here. We're gonna fuckthem up. One of the French generals
was like, I have too manyguns. We're gonna fuck these dudes up.
Damn. The Vietnamese surrounded them inthis valley and just destroyed them.
The French guy, the general thatled that, killed himself honorably because he
was like, we're gonna wipe thefloor with these guys. Are they going
to valley? Isn't it a badI'm not a military it was a bad
(05:34):
idea. Well, it's funny tosay that because even Quisan the famous fourteen
years later America did the same thing, set themselves up in a it was
surrounded by old the mountains, socreated a valley and set up an airstrip,
a landing strip in the valley andgot killed. Because damn, it's
really amazing. I mean. Theother thing on Vietnam is you realize how
(05:58):
like how you know you think whenyou're young, at least like the people
in charge, they spend all thetime doing this. They know what they're
doing. But there were so manyegos involved that the few people were like,
this is not working. Were justthey were just like, stop,
you don't know what you're saying.Just because of ego. People think oh
they motive was they wanted money.They would still have the money. This
was about like something else, thepower struggle, that where you pay the
(06:21):
price or the troops for the price. It sucks here if you're just some
dude sitting in a village and someguy had an argument and you're just getting
blown up and you're like, whatthe fuck is this about? And the
other on Cody coming grips with that, he was like, no, fuck
it, I'm right. In theearly sixties thatd this Hamlet program where they
would bring they said we're gonna bringall these weapons to each hamlet, all
(06:43):
these little hamlets, because it waskind of half and half like North Korean,
and they put all these weapons toall these hamlets and said, look,
you're in charge of the weapons.It was all American made, modern
stuff. And of course the VietCong, who kind of controlled more or
less, they had the hearts ofthe people. They took all the weapons.
So we supplied the Viet Cong theat least weapons, but in the
early sixties, and he kept themgoing. It genuinely makes me like,
(07:08):
I all my informations from the kenBurns documentary, right, and I watch
it and every time I'm watching it, by episode two, I'm like,
what the fuck is going like,it's yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Well, I don't know if thiswas in the ken Burns documentary, but
did you see the guy? Itis? I think it is. I
saw that kenbine uh Is Beckwith withthe guy and advisor Colonel Beckwith, Oh
(07:33):
yeah, charging Charlie Beckwith and hegoes the interview me and go what do
you think of the Viet Kong.He goes, finest soldier I've ever seen,
This is ninety sixty five. Hegoes what the vida kank he goes
best soldier. I oh wish Ihad two hundred of them under my command
right away, like, oh weshould have. Yeah, someone was up
then well they also they'd been fightingfor thirty years. These dudes have been
(07:58):
fighting since like World War Two.They didn't stop fighting really from World War
Two until the end of Vietnam.They were fighting constantly and their home territory.
Yeah, and then so small theyhad to be crafty. All the
tunnels, all the trails, theyknow everything. Oh fuck yeah, you
know. Was that the First AmericanWar where like the American troops were like,
what the fuck's going? What's thepoint of Yes, the first Korea
(08:20):
I'm sure they were a little bitlike, actually, yeah, Korea,
Korea, we did mcaul career.Yeah, macauthur everybody was like, don't
do this. Macauthur's like, Ilove the people loved him. Yeah,
the Korean people like this guy's willsay it. And he just was like
a king over there, and thenhe just said we're gonna do it this
way. I forget. He landedon the coast, so he did something
(08:41):
that was strategically a nightmare. Andeven his generals are like don't do this.
What are you doing? And hegoes, I know what I'm doing,
and yeahtinc he referred to himself fromthe third person. Yeah, yeah,
he was wild. MacArthur was wild. You might get a bad rap
though. I kind of like him. Yeah, No, he was loved.
Look, the people loved him becausehe Japan loved it because after World
(09:03):
War Two, they were expecting becausethey were so horrendous during World War Two,
they expected him to really bear thatand he treated them like, he
said, you treat these people likehuman beings. So how many these people
treat him like a god? Sohe felt like a god that's tough to
shake off. That would get me. Yeah, I was getting like Samurai
glory. I'm like, yeah,you know what he was like, presenting
(09:24):
you swords and those suits, Likewho do I? I think that's why
God never even let me sell outlike the Beacon or something like that.
He keeps me in a level ofthree to four hundred seats on the road.
And there's a reason for oh man, So yeah, what was it?
So chronologically, the French dreight,so we were like bos the French
(09:46):
colony. Then there's World War two, Yapan takes over and and like always
when Japan would invade every all theAsian countries were like, nice, finally
the fucking white colon colonists are gone. We're gonna get treated well. And
they immediately get starved to death.And then they added and fucked with it.
Sucks. So then when the Americansliberated Vietnam and the British whoever,
(10:07):
they were like, fuck, yeah, we love America. Then France after
World War Two, who just gottheir fucking ass whooped. Yeah, yeah,
they're like, actually we want thosecolonies back. Nice. Yeah,
and you know, and Vietnam waslike, no, this is ours.
Now we're independent again. So thendo they have to write a letter to
Vietnam like hey, buddy, uhwe're coming back. Yeah uh so yeah,
(10:31):
sorry, well we should start chronologically. Yeah, let you I watched
is fucking ken Burns. What arewe talking about? Whatever you want,
you said. And then so thenFrance when they lost you know what I
mean, the Geneva talks Geeva.I think it was the first Geneva talk
back then maybe not, but thenGeneva, you know, and and then
(10:58):
we went in I and I said, we're just going to arm them in
the fifties. You know, we'rejust going to keep arming them because we
don't want communism to spread down there. And then uh, because China,
they were China taken over Vietnam,but Vietnam wasn't work because they would have
common like he said, by thatpoint, Bejjiman was pro America until that
horrible event whether France destroyed like allthese innocent villages, and then he turned
(11:22):
on America because we supplied France inden food. When they got America started
supplying France because the only way Frenchcould get anything was air drops because they
were in a fucking valley getting destroyed, like eight thousand French dudes. Did
Jesus? Uh Again though the Vietnameselost like three to one casualties, but
(11:43):
they were like that's a victory.Yes, they would get fucking wiped out
constantly. Yeah, that was wasthat one quote, like all we have
to do is just stay here andjust die and yeah, that was the
one that one of the Vietnamese soldierslike, all we have to do is
just not become extinct and we win. That's that's great. Well, that's
the problem with everything, I mean, And he's saving anywhere the people who
live there, they have nowhere togo. Yeah, they're like, well,
(12:07):
you know your trap, a trappedrat is gonna fight to the death.
Yeah. But then, yeah,it got to the point where in
the they're talking about like the UnitedStates was literally funding eighty percent of the
French versus Vietnamese War. We weregiving France eighty percent of the budget to
win the war. Yeah. Yeah, France sucks. France did a bad
(12:28):
job. And then they left,and then we decided it was such a
it's such a weird I look atit so like psychologically, like what I
understand about the common the domino theorywas part of it, but yeah,
the psychological mindset you put yourself into. There was this guy Harkens, the
general. He was the guy thatran it, and he was the He
is really responsible to many ways becausewe go back and tell the president these
(12:50):
guys it's going good. But eventhen the president is the ambassadors, they
all went along. It just goesto show. I mean, I quote
my mother all the time. Icould rest us all, but she used
to always say, people and Isee this deeper and deeper in everything,
and this is a perfect example.People are attracted to bullshit and if you
offer them something that's quality or truthfuland bullshit, they go for the bullshit
(13:13):
every time. And I said tomy mother at the time, I go,
that's true most of the times.Because I didn't say most of the
time. I said every time.And Vietnam is a perfect example because he
was this guy Vanned. This wholebook breakshin lines about this guy Vanned.
It was in Vietnam for he wasthe early guy. And he's like,
look, we're gonna lose. Here'swhat's happening. The Hamlets were giving away
guns, the communists that take it. We're bombing village we were search to
(13:35):
destroy in nineteen sixty three Jesus,and he goes, we're losing everybody.
We got to either win them overthrough like social revolution, the corruption of
the South Vietnamese. They're taking everything. Their special forces that we trained are
destroying people. This is terrible.We're losing. And everybody, even the
people that kind of knew better,just went like oh and was like no,
(13:58):
we're just gonna do this, andthey're like, oh, okay,
let's do that. And it wasn'tthat it was easier, and they almost
like will themselves into like have youever been involved in like a TV or
movie project, right, and everyone'ssitting there and you started going, it's
got to be this, And thenslowly you start to go, oh,
yeah, now that. And thensomebody that wasn't involved in the first month
(14:20):
walks in and goes, are youguys all gone crazy? And yes you
have, and this is good.You start to believe it. You getting
this stupid and that's what I thinkhappened in Vietnam with military, you know,
on the set of Aquaman six,and you're like, this still is
good. And you even go toa screening of a movie. And then
I've got to screenings of movies andyou'll sit there and be like, that
(14:43):
movie is really good. If you'rearound the movie, you know the cast,
you know the people, it wasgood, it was wed. And
then if I've been with people thatgo, are you crazy that ship?
And I'm like, I was ina state of temporary and Saturday, and
I feel like that's what happened.The domino effect bothers me. It just
(15:05):
annoys me. You don't like dominoes, Obviously you don't. Obviously I crushed
dominoes. No you don't, I'lltell you. You don't like. You
don't like that slippery slope theory that'sbasically the domino effect. I agree,
I don't want it. When itcomes to well, why we were in
Vietnam was they were like, well, if China's influenced in the Soviet influence
gets Vietnam, they're going to getall of Southeast Asia. Yeah, and
(15:26):
it's like so well, but atthe time, Russia had just taken all
of Eastern Europe in the early fifties. All right, I'll take Vietnam.
What the fuck happened? What happenedVietnam? Yes, well, that's what
I'm saying. It was. Isaid it was a it was a weird
narcotic state where where you know,it's been kind of a thing after World
(15:48):
War Two. It's gone now,but where we're like, no, we
don't really, we don't really faileverybody wants to do. Everybody wants this
because it works a little, notjust World War two. The Marshall Plan
even worked because we're dealing with allthese countries and suddenly they're coming back.
By nineteen sixties fifties, Germany's evenback. So we're like the benign guys
(16:10):
that we controlled things that but everybody'skind of like getting a thing. Who
wants to be on the team.And then you know, we didn't realize
it was a whole undercurrent. Solike the overcurrent is Europe, then the
undercurrent is the colonies. So allthe colonies were being starting in the only
fifties from Africa to you know,South americ and yeah, so there was
(16:32):
that whole thing going on. Youknow, the spots was so much going
on, isn't it. We allYeah, so it was kind of a
weird. It was an interesting timelycommunism appealing to that. Yeah, you
absolutely, well, like Cuba,look at Cuba with the old mafia thing
(16:52):
and it was such an interesting thingwhere it was like, you know,
they're letting all these capitalist things andthen they were like no Castro came in
and you know what I mean,they even though Cuba failed, they didn't
like the corruption level that was goingon, the same thing as South Vietnam.
Yeah, we it was the thingwe propped up some fucking dumb ass,
propped up a dumb ass, andwe would never get rid of it.
(17:14):
And then as soon as you sawthat part we were watching it.
We propped up this dude who justimmediately started persecuting the Buddhists, absolutely started.
Yep. His wife was a fuckingmonster who was like, good,
I'm glad they're burning themselves. Brother. Yeah, they were just morons.
Yes, And we couldn't back offbecause we we were like, it's still
better than communism. Meanwhile, HochiMin was kind of fucking cool, right,
(17:37):
he liked us at the beginning.Yeah, he wasn't totally into this
thing, and then yeah, yeah, stuff, he came a system.
Now did you know a lot ofguys that were in Vietnam. I knew
a few. Yeah, I wasa kid. I was a kid doing
the whole thing, you know.And I remember it was a little kid.
You'd watch it was on the newsevery every day at five and six
o'clock, you'd see the footage forVietnam. So it was like such a
(18:00):
point. It wasn't like I wasshocked because I wasn't from the generation before
that. That was all I knew. I was seventy eight years old,
nine years old, but I rememberseeing footage of Vietnam all the time on
TV, in the news, andit was just a contant thing. And
I remember one time in class wewere talking about Vietnam. This is probably
seventy one, maybe seventy and theteacher or the kids were going, yeah,
(18:22):
Vietnam is bad. And this girlin a class starts screaming and crying
because a brother got killed in Vietnam. And so I knew probably three guys,
older guys that hang out with me. But I mean I knew three
guys that were Marines at Vietnam thatgot wounded, that came home, and
they all had those cliche marine personalities. I mean, Vietnam vet the army
(18:49):
jacket by themselves, the big beardswhen they're home, heavy drinker, the
heavy smoker, you know, proneto outbursts, but still good guys like
they will guys we lie, youknow. They weren't like people hung out
with them and talked to them.But they had that other side to them,
partly from being in the war,partly from what they did, partly
(19:11):
from what Vietnam did, and partlyfrom their reaction when they came home.
It wasn't like you walk around.People weren't going thank you for your service,
you know. Yeah, so Iknew a few guys. Yeah,
Yeah, that was the thing wewere talking about. O'Connor brought this up.
We were talking about last night.He's like, imagine, so imagine
today's fucking college student. Imagine beinga fucking a dude who got drafted and
(19:33):
had to go live through fucking hell, and then you get home and one
of these fuckers throws like a bagof piss at you, and it's like
baby killer. Right, Oh mygod, that's when I would join the
Ohio National Guard and state that's such. That's so. Yeah. But but
(19:57):
it was interesting that they all didhave that per personality. Yea, even
the guys I knew guy across through. My friend's brother was a Vietnam Vet
that didn't fight. He was aairplane mechanic, and even he was screwed
fucked up from him. Yeah.My uncle, my uncle was a marine
and he never talks about it ever, Like literally never talks about One night
(20:18):
he and I got drunk and heopened up about it. Really was.
It was wild. He saw afucking chinook get hit and just spun and
dud dudes flew everywhere. I mean, it was. Now. My other
uncle was in Vietnam and he isa little more I don't get, he's
a little more sociopath like psycho.That's like, I killed a guy.
(20:40):
Yeah, And I was like,how is that? And it was just
me and him, and he goes, it's fucking incredible. I was like,
yo, yo, I told youI knew a guy who was a
sniper. And he was saying,he's like, you get addicted to the
feeling of killing people. And he'slike and he was like, he was
a nice dude. He's like,I didn't have any I didn't have like
ill will towards people. But he'slike you, I like would watch people
(21:00):
eat dinner and as soon as theyfinish, right in the head, he's
look at twelfth one. He's like, you get like a god complex and
you're like, I'm ending this,damn. Yeah. He's the guy in
Vietnam. I've told you this before. It was it was like a ninety
degree trail and you couldn't see aroundthe corner. So he's walking one way.
A viet Cong was walking up thepath. He said. They literally
(21:21):
bumped into each other in the jungleand then it was just a race to
see who could get their who couldget their gun out faster, and he
got his out. Wus Christ.Now, don't get he's still I mean,
and then he got fucked up.He got hit with a he got
hit with a rock and propelled grenadeand he blew his his nipples missing his
calf's off. Yeah, and hehad to lay there because they're in the
(21:41):
middle of a firefight. He hadto lay there for three hours on the
jungle floor like I'm dead, I'mdying. Sure, I mean, he's
yeah Nile hero, Yeah yeah,yeah, But I mean, and is
it that different from like my fatherwas in Korea and Korean and he said
(22:02):
the most disturbing point was, whichis still chilling, that the lieutenants of
the officers would nightly bring in theKorean prisoners and beat the living shit out
of them and always like, hey, Brooklyn, you want a peace and
he's like, no thanks, andthey would just like beat the just torture
the guys, just beat them forfun. So it's already starting to lose
the uh yeah yeah, the gamarWorld War two and then but Vietnam is
(22:26):
a different, Like I feel likethey this this setup even though it happened
in World War Two, it happensin every war. The setup of search
and destroy is what fucked them allup, because here you are you grow
up in the fifties, you're watchingthese movies, you have a little bit
even if you're not innocent, youknow, you know, you're capable of
but you're still uh. And thensuddenly you're in the middle of this thing
(22:48):
where they go, no, youhave to burn all these hamlets because,
like I said, the Hamlet program, the Vietnamese took over the hamlets.
So they go and the Vietnamese arein there, and whether they or not,
they're in enough where like, okay, it's them and me. And
so you're torturing all these peasants outof their house, torturing, torching the
bill. That's like the that's thestrategy. How long that strategy? How
(23:12):
long do they do the whole time? The whole time was down, Yeah,
from nineteen sixty and they said,even that's more Morey Safer was the
fan, you know, the guyfrom sixty minutes. I was still this
fucking annoying guy, you know.But meanwhile he was a reporter and he
had the they filmed in nineteen sixtyfive Torching of a Hamlet nineteen sixty five,
(23:36):
early in the war, and that'swhen everyone started protesting the Vietnam War.
Because they watched on TV like wait, this is like liberating France.
What's going on here? It wasjust all these peasants running, They're torching
the house and shooting the pigs likethat was on the national news, Jesus
on the evening news. That's whatyou were watching. Well I don't remember
that, but I'm saying, butpeople shot the whole country. That's when
(23:57):
they protest because were the good guyslike check us out, never like boo.
No. The news was like,hey, this is crazy because the
news was doing their fucking job andthey're like, here's what's actually happening.
No, right, did you show? And Molly Safer had to leave like
they were threading him because they weresaying if you get out of context,
(24:17):
he didn't, which you probably did. I'm saying they were saying that they'd
been getting shot, like Marien's hadgotten shot from that building. So I'm
saying it wasn't like, you know, it's not just us evil and everybody
else is good either. But imean, but it was a stupid strategy.
See, this is what it wascrazy because the French had just done
it before us. Yes, sothey did this thing called pacification where they
(24:40):
were like, we're gonna They triedto do the social set like they were
like, we're gonna help build yourrice patties up, We're gonna give you
food, We're gonna build schools.And during the day it worked, and
then at night the Vietcan would comein take the food, the fucking guns,
hide guns in the villages, hideweapons, hide soldiers. So then
during the day they'd come back andthey just keep getting supplies and they do
(25:03):
raids from the villages with the weaponsand ship the French gave them. And
then so the French would come backand be like, we know you're harboring
communists, and they would burn thefucking village down. And then we did
that. We did the exact samething. And then the under the thing
of like we don't want communism tospread, which is funny to be like
we don't want cops. You wantto be free guys here, trust me,
and like burn just down and trustme. This is well. And
(25:26):
I think you're doing the same thingkind of in Afghanistan, right and Iraq,
We're gonna give you guys money,work with us. And then the
tal Ban comes in at night andthere's like puts a gun to their head,
and it's like, we'll do workwith us. Yeah, I mean,
that's all problem with everything, right, if you go to some you
know, if the cops go toa neighborhood bar, the only analogias and
(25:48):
everything is neighborhood ball. But ifthey go to neighborhood ball and go,
listen, we want you, wewant you guys to do a couple of
troublemakers in here. And the troullmakers are in there, well, they're
outside. Way for these guys toleave. Yeah, they're not there.
They're only gonna be there part.They know you're going to leave. You're
not there to stay forever. Soit always ends up screwing you, you
know. Yeah, And if wedon't kill them at night, they're gonna
(26:11):
come get fucking behead. Is whathappened in Vietnam once they took over,
exactly. They can't boy all thatstuff. They just destroyed. They genocide
got rid of everybody that bugged themin. Everybody with a pair of glasses,
you know what I mean. It'slike they how'd you get those?
They literally went, Well, itjust anybody who was so so fancy themselves,
(26:32):
intellectual. It was like they it'slike the army came in and literally
just rampage through Bushwick, Williamsburg andGreenpoint in the past three years. Everybody
here show at a bookstore, burnthe bookstores. Yeah, it's uh.
I mean, that's the thing aboutit. That's why I never really got
(26:55):
into Vietnam. You know. Ilike the Civil War in World War two
where it's like kind of noble,right, and then Vietnam is the first
one that's like, well, it'sso. But even Korea was like a
harbygear. It's all like Korea psychological. And another uncle who fought in World
War two and fought with Audie Murphy. Who Audie Murphy was. No,
(27:15):
he's a famous he's the most famousWorld War War two hero. Okay,
they made him a movie. Sawhe wasn't a good actor, but he
was this legendary war to my uncle. Happened to me in his unit.
Oh wow. And he said thatall the hype g show the difference in
the war, all the hype abouthim was was true. He goes,
this guy was the bravest. Hegoes, he was so crazy. He'd
(27:36):
run right into battle. They wereat Anzio. They were to Battle of
the ball, all these places hegoes, he would just run right into
battle his nuts, and in thosedays they'd celebrate that. Even even uh,
you know, any movie about Iraq, there's still an undertone of darkness.
All the War War two movies,they're like, hey, there's no
problem here. Yeah Ki the asYeah, like this guy's great, like
(28:00):
a positive like John John basilone hewas. He was in the Pacific.
There's a rest stop in New Jersey, like one of the first rest out.
That's what he got out of it. He got the Medal of Honor.
He was. He that's awesome.He fucking it's in the Pacific and
the ship like he goes wild,picks up his gun without the fucking heat
pad, just mows down the andthen he goes home. So they put
(28:22):
him on a USO tour and sellfucking bonds and he's like, no,
I need to go back and fight. So then he goes to and is
like, I'm gonna do that gunthing again? What and he died?
Oh no, yeah, but hegot yeah yeah yeahs towards the Vietnam he
(28:45):
he did one and he's like,send me back and didn't give me one
more. Who did it? Mymom's cousin. Wow, Wow, he
did three. He was because hewas like fucking, I'm not going back.
I'm gonna do it. And whatdid he end up doing after the
I saw him like spazzing fighting anarcade owner or the boardwalk one time.
Charlie. Dude, he was Butthat's the whole point. Yeah, he
(29:06):
was with my mom the one timewhen they were younger and he was sleeping
in the car and some guy likescreamed something at my mom and he like
popped up and was just got outand beat the ship up. They were
in traffic on the highway and beatthe ship out of the guy and throw
him on the side of the road. And he's like a sco Imagine that
guy. He sees a woman ina car, He's like, fuck,
guy, just pops up Vietnam threetours. I think it was like seventy
four. Just pops up, Likewhat you imagine? Three toys? I
(29:29):
mean that's a really that's what Imean. Two toys is crazy. But
at least you feel like during thesecond tour of the guy's like, fuck,
what did I say yesterday? Yeah, But if you go for three,
that means you're like all the way. Yeah, that's when I told
the guy. The dude I wastalking to he was actually is my ex
father in law. I was talkinghim about. I was telling him about
my mom's cause he's like, oh, that guy just likes scaling people.
Yeah, And I was like maybe, I mean he probably just there's also
a guy. Everyone's got the thing. You go there, you go there,
(29:52):
and then you go home and you'relike, I can't be home after
you're just in the fucking jungle.Yeah killing Now you got to go pretend
to be a human. Yep.Yeah, so you get off the road
for a long time. Ye say, it happens to cops. It happens
to cops. Friends. Was that, Yeah, it happens the cops.
They got addicted to that drenalized stateand go home. They're like this sucks,
(30:15):
Sure they stay there forever. Butthe other thing was Vietnam, which
I've watched a lot of those YouTubeguys with a interview and you see the
similarities in them eventually, and oneof them is that they said they got
screwed. First of all, justimagine this supposed to be the country setting
all his money for aid. Theyone guy was several of them said the
(30:36):
Sea rations were terrible. He goes. We looked at the date on some
of them. They were Korean andWorld War two. Yikes, that's old.
The Sea rations, Jesus said,they give them the troops that supposedly
the richest time in our history.And the other one is the M fourteen.
They said the M sixteen got moreguys killed when they switched to the
M sixteen because west Moreland wanted orone of these guys just it was like
(30:57):
a vanity project. The M fourteenwouldn't jam in the mud jammed, and
they said guys would just be gettingkilled, baying edded to death because it
would jam and you couldn't en jamit. Oh fuck, and they did.
The M fourteen was the early gunwas better. That sucks. Yeah,
America really fucked up. I don'tlike it, but yeah, the
(31:18):
whole thing, the whole thing wasjust me out and then each president had
an opportunity to fucking end it,and they all just keep fucking dragging it
out. But does what I mean, That's what I'm saying about that state.
Kennedy. Yeah, he was closeto ending it. He was,
he was, but he wasn't.And they said, and this guy Van
was talking to Henry coppytt Lodge,he was the ambassador. All the guys
(31:41):
were close to Kennedy, and itwas just one of those things where it's
like just at the last way,It's like any other decision you've seen in
any power person where you like,everybody has this logical argument and then they
go, no, I think thisis better, and you're like, what
why you don't give us a reason? And he did never give us a
(32:02):
reason. There was Was there anykind of economic advantage that like was clear?
I don't think so really there wasany there. I mean the rubber
all the ship that was there wasgone. We rubber coats, all the
rice, it was all gone.I mean we fucking killed it. Damn.
(32:23):
I mean Agent Orange. I mean, when you think about it,
Agent Orange killing all the people thatthey said they are levels of whatever dios
dioxing with three times anybody else bythe time we left, and all the
troops I mean doing is your owntroops. It's just crazy. I mean
that's the height of like immorality.You know, just the guys that are
(32:44):
there fighting and you're just like,yeah, well, you know, it's
like no, no, the otherones. You have to really try to
be a little more careful with theopposite of what you're doing. It was
really a weird situation. You know. Also the French were using napalm too,
there were before us. Yeah,they were. We did everything they
did. Sounds like a French wordexact, Yeah, yeah, you know,
(33:05):
there's yeah jel Yeah. It's likepetroleum jail and they light on fire
and you spread it. If youtouch it just goes on your body.
It burns and water makes it worse, right because if you gets worse,
ye stinks. And I mean butFrance really wanted Vietnam so well, they
had him before that. Yeah,they wanted it back, must I mean,
(33:28):
they had it, they lost it. They're like, we get this
back. They want their baby back. Sad fire on people. Yeah,
what is it about Vietnam? That'sso because we apparently wanted it to We
went in there in the mid fiftiesand we couldn't leave. You ever go
to a party and you're like,I gotta leave, this party is over.
Oh yeah, and it's like,so you know what, you gotta
get out, do some coke.You're saying. Left at eleven o'clock like
(33:52):
I planned to. That's Vietnam.It's probably just a psychological thing. It's
like you want to be the bestgeneral. You start losing, You're like,
fuck, fuck, we got this, we got this. It's like
no, no, no, weshould have this. Hear me out.
This is my passion project, thisis my baby. Yeah. I mean
that's the other thing. Everybody wasjust you know, the military, like
their job is to get more moneyfor the military. How can you get
more money if you're not in nowar? You know, So, how
(34:14):
did that? What? What doyou like? How does this thing progress?
What do you do? How's itend? What's going on Vietnam?
I mean it look it ended whenwe left. It was the most it
was. Really, they're lucky.It was the mid seventies. It was
like seventy five, that famous rooftest site. They're lucky because by then
everybody was like the Age of apathy. When I was a teenager, people
(34:35):
just into drugs, you know,dancing, and you know, it was
just a very hedonistic time. Peoplehad done all the protesting that happened in
the sixties, people were done bythe seventies, you know what I mean,
And they just like yeah, yeah, yeah, and so when people
left, it wasn't even there wasn'teven outrage. It was like, oh
that was that was awkward. Itwas a bomber. That was just yeah,
(34:59):
people just like yeah, and youfeel bitful the people that, you
know, all the Vietnamese that wasstill helping us by the end. What
fucked Yeah, like that that theygot killed. That helicopter on the roof.
The hell come to that picture.That's a long line. Yeah,
and that's the last chopper. That'sright, those boards are staying, and
that's that's your fucking negative time.Yeah, when that chopper takes off and
(35:22):
you're like next in line, Likefuck, I got earlier. I was
at long with gardens, waiting fora shuttle to they go see the shuttles
like you ask. I had towait like fifteen more minutes and motherfucker.
Yeah, I don't know what happened. It settled down. It's better now.
It's not that that's not tearing.The damage is done. I mean
(35:42):
that's the thing. The power shiftimmediately. Yeah, and all the people,
like when you think about the peopleright now in your life that you
were like, ah, fuck you, and then if suddenly they're in power,
they go where is this son ofa bitch? Astoria? Where does
you live again? Yeah? Andthen you know you just hope they,
you know, will accidentally mistake youfor Mike Feeniean. Yeah. But what's
(36:06):
it like? So you had yougrew up watching Vietnam and what was it
like for you to see like theIraq War? Was that the older I
get, the more like I Ibelieved that we there were weapons of man's
destruction. They got you, theygot me. I believed it all the
way. I said, there's gotto be weapons of man's destructure. It
wouldn't be this, you know,they wouldn't be on to this extreme after
Vietnam. They wouldn't be They're notgoing to be fool twice, wouldn't be
(36:29):
this guy. I said. Theycan't be that stupid, you know,
or diabolical either way. I said, there's no way there's not weapons and
man's destruction. There wasn't. Imean, I was a kid. Me
and the Senate believed this. Yeah, you and Hillary Clinton? Yeah,
I was a kid. And itwas two thousand and three. Yeah,
so I was fresh off nine toeleven. Yeah, I was an eighth
grade fucking patriot. Yeah. Itwas pretty much a true Yeah, yeah,
(36:51):
I had four years later i'd begoing to West Point. Yeah they
had. I was ready. Yeah, but yeah, you know Iraq,
I was pomped. I was watchingremember when the thing should get into West
Point? You know, that's ahard school to get into it. He
was it? You did? Yeah? Yeah, wow, I went.
I pressed you did? Yeah,well I quit right away, but I
went, that's impressive. Yeah,but you have to get in your get
(37:12):
your place. I played football.That helped. Oh yeah, they got
me in for that. You knowwhat's interesting about Vietnam, which I realized,
we all had armie jackets in themid seventies, early seventies, seventies.
Everybody will Vietnam the green army jacket, like that was the biggest style.
And it was Vietnam. Bet itwas Vietnam close. So even though
nobody really welcomed them home, thatwas a really important part of the style.
(37:34):
That's funny case people dressed like instructionworkers now here. Yeah that's right,
Like, yeah, that's weird.Yeah, you dressed like somebody who
works harder than you. True,that's right. But yeah, so what
did you get the witness Like dudescoming home and getting kind of treated like
shit. No, but I butI definitely, like I said in class,
that girl's brother day. Yeah,and like I said, I knew
(37:55):
the Vietnam bets, but they didn'tget treat like shit in my in my
neighborhood. I mean, but becauseeverybody's like, oh they went to Vietnam,
it was like it was a consequentialthing. There was mostly like a
protest or at the airports, butI mean in general, was it looked
at it as kind of like ashame, like he went. No,
not a shame, but there wassomething like like it was a serial,
(38:15):
like everybody knew, like these guyswent through something that was a little different
from like World Warshare and stuff.And they had long hair, so even
the patriotic people would were like thisguy's or like, you know, the
hair. But they were you know, they were great guys. I mean,
some of them were really great guys. You know, they weren't that
(38:37):
fucked up. But they get wastedat night. But everybody in those days
was different, Like they weren't like, oh that guy Drakes because he's a
Vietnama. People were getting fucked upall the time. Everybody's smoking weed,
everybody had long hair, everybody hadLomie jackets, and everybody's just kind of
insane. So it was it soundsawesome, It was kind of awesome,
but there was something different at leastaround then at that time. You know,
(38:59):
I need to bring it back,but I need to get way more
militant. My weed smoking jacket,sucking up right now, it's funny to
be sucked up and smoking weed likeit is like just dark. I needed
to be, like, it isweird that our biology rejects burning villages.
(39:19):
Some will you know, if youdo it, fuck you up. It's
tough coming back a god. ButI mean, the tragedy is that they
were That was literally the strategy thatthey were told to do. So what
does that do to you? You'relistening to the people that you don't make
those decisions a chain of command sayingburn the villages. You can't really half
asset really, Oh my god.I read a horrible book. It was
(39:42):
just witness guys that had done atrostitiesin Vietnam. It was just an oral
history from guys that have done thingsat Vietnam. And I'll tell you,
I remember one quote. Somebody said, you'll never be surprised. You're going
to be shocked. Some guy wastalking to some other reporter of somebody going
over there and goes you, you'regonna be shocked at the cruelty of a
(40:04):
nineteen year old American boy, likeand what they'll what they'll be capable of
by the time they leave. Imean, that's the guy. That's what
happened. That's the thing. Everyone of these wars, every one of
these atrocities is nineteen year old,twenty year old boys with they've been killing
people for a year. Sure,they're gonna they're gonna go wid Yeah.
Once one of your friends get shot, it's like, all right, well
fuck ya. We'd be the samefucking way. Yeah, of course,
(40:25):
I mean do varying degrees. Somepeople would love it more than other people.
We'd all be the same way.Yeah, you would love it.
What war? Yeah, no,A trust committing atrocity, Yeah, I'd
hate you. You would be Suckme up. I've being a long hair
in the jacket so quick, what'sgoing on? I don't know that would
be I mean, you know,because there's like I think they just gas
you up enough to get you overthere, and then it's like your friend
(40:47):
gets shot then getting drafted. Dude. True, yeah, think of that,
You've got about that drafted? Yeahof that, you're just yeah,
you're in college. Like even theguys just like I decided to drop off
one semester, they go so theminute I dropped out, they got me.
Like they were watching people to makesure the minute they got out of
there, like get that fucking guy. They're probably like finding out their grades.
Alike, get this, he's gonnadrop. Michael played basketball just to
(41:10):
get out of it. He playedbasketball west Chester to get out of it.
Like, yeah, who did MichaelJack? He was? He played.
He was like, oh he wasoff the perfect age you get drafted,
and he just pooped it up.My dad was graduated college or high
school in seventy four mm, sohe didn't he got a draft card,
but he was. My dad wasalways make fun of him for being a
draft out. He got a drafted, he got a draft card. He
didn't get drafted, but yeah,seventy four or ended, people were trying
(41:34):
to get out of there. Warended, but it was funny to it's
fun to make fun. He probablyhad the last year the draft, draft
probably ended. Something have been sonice and you see it was cool.
It was cool to be anti warwhen you were young. Sure, yeah,
oh yeah, no, that waslike the hip thing. Oh so
you're saying like the sanctioned station showswere just kind of yeah, like most
of you knew, like there wassquares. Even though we're little kids,
we did they're squares. So theshows at that time were supporting in a
(41:58):
horrific war and like a horrific butthey were really supportive. But you just
kind of knew that that was likethe way it was in a weird way,
you could sense like that was hewas a school bus driver, that
was a Vietnam guy really, andhe was fired. He would get fired.
That's a good people, that's agood buster. Yeah, that's a
good bus driver. Guy who's seen
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