October 11, 2024 • 31 mins
Unlock the secrets of financial advertising as we uncover the truth behind those too-good-to-be-true offers in our latest series, "Bullshit on Stilts." Ever been lured by promises of "can't lose" investments or "tax-free retirement accounts"? Get ready to sharpen your "bullshit sniffer" and see through flashy social media claims designed to dazzle and deceive. We promise you'll leave this episode equipped with the tools to scrutinize the allure of terms like TFRA and other buzzwords popping up during open enrollment season.
Join us as we peel back the layers of misleading marketing, especially the enticing world of tax-free retirement accounts and cash value life insurance. With a mix of serious analysis and a sprinkle of humor, we dissect these so-called "rich man's Roths" to reveal the truth behind their grandiose promises. Explore the ethical implications of these strategies and understand why transparency is crucial in financial planning. Don't miss our engaging discussion about the power of social media advertising and how to distinguish fact from fiction while navigating the financial services landscape.
We love to hear your thoughts, questions, and ideas. Send us a text!
Developing your financial bullshit sniffer one episode at a time.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Keli (00:01):
Welcome to Bullshit on Stilts, a podcast hosted by two
guys with vast financialbackgrounds and great bullshit
sniffers who call out the clichecrap, spackle and flap doodle
spewed by so-called expertsacross the landscape of
financial advice Identifying asdoctors of bullshitology.
You can count on your esteemedhosts okay, maybe knuckleheads
(00:24):
to bring you a lively, if notdeadly, mix of bullshitology.
You can count on your esteemedhosts okay, maybe knuckleheads
to bring you a lively, if notdeadly, mix of serious analysis,
hijinks and tomfoolery, allwithin a 99.1% bullshit-free
safe space.
Let's get after it All right.
Welcome to Bullshit on Stilts.
Today we're starting a newseries in our first year of
(00:48):
podcasting.
Here, what we're going to focuson is how to develop your
bullshit sniffer as it relatesto when you're scrolling through
social media, whether it'sFacebook, tiktok, instagram,
what have you?
There's an awful lot ofmarketing and, more importantly,
an awful lot of advertisingthat's coming out of the
(01:09):
insurance and financial serviceindustry, and so today's
discussion and the future coupleof podcasts following this are
going to really focus in on someof those areas that we see
ourselves on social media thatcan really get a person's, let's
say, juices flowing and notnecessarily in a good way right
(01:30):
around the urgency.
So that's what today is goingto be about, all right.
So, mark, we have a lot ofdiscussions, obviously offline,
even though we don't like eachother.
So the question is, when itcomes to marketing, when it
comes to advertising andfinancial service, insurance
industries, what's going onthere?
How does a financial salesprofessional agencies, brokerage
(01:54):
operations, what have you?
How do they go about gettingpeople to want to touch, tap on
something, watch a video, and soforth?
What's going on?
Mark (02:02):
there.
Well, you've got to get theirattention to start with, and you
don't do that with measuredphrases and speaking more
factually about whatever productor service you're attempting to
get their attention with.
So to get their attention, youneed to make outrageous claims
or the equivalent of bait click.
Keli (02:20):
Um uh, bait click um, oh, oh, you mean clickbait so we
have claims like can't lose yeah, zero's your hero.
Guaranteed returns of betweensomething high and something
even higher?
Mark (02:38):
yeah, nine percent using a different name to describe the
generic underlying product.
Yes, virtue claims, I'm afiduciary, indeed, can't miss
out no loss.
Keli (02:50):
I love the introduction, the.
Mark (02:51):
IRS doesn't want you to know about what your advisor
doesn't want you to know about,but I know all those types of
claims yeah, they're all outthere, it seems.
Keli (03:00):
Even better are the ones that are historically inaccurate
, like Section 401k of the IRCcame and was a result of the
Depression.
Yeah, I have to go back to onething, kelly.
Mark (03:12):
You know the fact that we, as you stated very accurately
was you know we don't like eachother, but it's not that I avoid
you.
Stop looking at me.
So, for example, I came heretoday to do the podcast.
I don't avoid you, I justignore you, and the reason for
that is avoiding takes too mucheffort.
Wake up, wake up, wake up.
Keli (03:38):
I'm sorry, I must have dozed off.
Mark (03:41):
So, kelly, it's September and we're getting into open
enrollment season for retirementaccounts, healthcare decisions
for your health plan if you'rewith a larger employer.
So we're starting to see on theinternet or at least you are
when you're scrolling throughyour device things about
retirement plans.
You mentioned one called a TFRA.
(04:01):
Yes, tell me about what that is, kelly one called a TFRA.
Keli (04:05):
Yes, tell me about what that is, kelly.
Tax-free retirement account,tfra I've come across it quite a
bit personally when I've beenon Facebook or Instagram, and so
tax-free retirement account isultimately and very simply a
line of discussion withperspectives.
Mark (04:20):
Now do me a favor Don't spoil this by telling me what
the root underlying instrumentis.
Oh, okay, so it's a tax-freeretirement account.
I'm going to need a half hourto think through this now.
So tax-free?
Under what conditions?
Keli (04:34):
Tax-free retirement account under the conditions of.
Well, I can't say what it is.
Is that the rule now?
Mark (04:42):
Yeah, don't tell me what the underlying instrument is.
Keli (04:45):
Well, that stinks, all right.
So tax-free retirement accountis an account that I'm just
asking simply, why would youlead with tax-free the T-F-R-A?
Mark (04:54):
because it sounds good, or tax-free?
What do we mean by tax-free?
Keli (04:58):
Tax-free, meaning that you can get access to money to help
support you in retirementwithout paying taxes, Unlike
that big nasty traditional.
Mark (05:06):
IRA.
Hold on here, hold on.
Yeah, that's my BS, my bullshitnasal spray to truly activate
my bullshit receptors.
I had no idea.
All right, let's go at it.
Let's go at it.
Keli (05:23):
Snorting saline solution.
Holy buckets.
Mark (05:25):
Okay, so tax-free retirement account, All right.
So it's called tax-free, allright.
Keli (05:29):
Yeah, so in this case they're positioning that there's
an account that exists, thatyou can put money into, that
when you retire, you can accessthat money tax-free.
Okay, so that's a tax-free.
Mark (05:44):
Right, and oh, by the way, it's not a Roth IRA.
Okay, yeah, so it's tax-free.
Isn't that interesting?
We have the word retirement.
Is it only when you retire?
Keli (05:51):
Well, the tax-free retirement account right out the
chute would make me think, huh,that's interesting, it must be
a Roth IRA.
And then they say but it's nota Roth IRA.
Mark (05:59):
Okay, so tax-free retirement.
That has me leading in aparticular direction, that it is
exclusive to my retirement,because I'm going to be starting
to equate that to an IRA or a401k.
So you got me on the tax-freeretirement account.
Is it indeed an account?
Just yes or no?
And the reason.
Keli (06:20):
I ask that is I?
Mark (06:20):
only have two brain cells and both are competing for
second place.
Keli (06:24):
I get you.
Okay, I only have two braincells and both are competing for
second place.
I get you, okay, I get you.
So yeah, if you stop playingwith the slinky for a second and
just focus here, all right.
So it is not an account aswould be defined by an
investment account, a retirementaccount, a 401k account, even a
pension account.
Those are all accounts.
This has nothing to do with anaccount, in all honesty.
Mark (06:46):
Okay so tax-free retirement account.
You give me a lot of things toanchor on, but I'll bet you
there's more to it than that.
Keli (07:02):
Anchoring bias is a cognitive bias, in other words,
it's how your brain, or my brain, works and figures things out,
and what it does is.
It involves relying heavily onthe first piece of information,
known as the anchor quoteunquote encountered when making
decisions or estimates, oftenleading to insufficient
(07:25):
adjustments from the initialvalue, like tax-free retirement
account.
A lot more to it Tax-freeretirement account.
Mark (07:38):
So a rose is a rose is a rose, wrote Gertrude Stein,
which means that you know youcan use all the words you want
to, but something, its root, itsessence, does not change.
So it seems to me that we'reusing a lot of other words here
that really don't tell me whatit is.
It's a secret right.
Keli (07:57):
This is the Wizard of Oz and nobody gets to look behind
the curtain at the wizard doinghis work.
Mark (08:03):
So can I do a switch on Romeo and Juliet when Juliet is
whispering to herself a rose byany other name would swell,
would a rose she was drinking?
All right, she was drunk onlove Kelly.
So if a rose by any other namewould smell just as sweet,
really this one might smellpretty raunchy.
Keli (08:24):
This one smells and the indicator is that they will also
position this opposing 401kplan, opposing Roth IRA,
opposing actual retirementaccounts.
This is better With a 401k, youhave a maximum amount of money
you can contribute every year,based on the Internal Revenue
Code, section 401k.
(08:44):
You have a limit the amount ofmoney that you can contribute to
an individual retirementaccount, an IRA.
The same is true for a Roth IRA.
With the tax-free retirementaccount, one of the selling
points will be there is nocontribution limit.
You're not limited to $26,000,as an example, in your 401k,
you're not limited to $7,000.
(09:06):
In the IRA or the Roth IRA, youcould put $100,000 a year into
this 7,000.
In the IRA or the Roth IRA, youcould put 100,000 a year into
this.
So it's a really sexy conceptif a person wants tax-free money
in retirement and they have theearnings or the mentality to
save a whole bunch of money intoa quote-unquote account.
So all of a sudden it'stax-free, it's for retirement
(09:29):
and I don't have the limitationsthat other retirement-oriented
savings accounts have.
Mark (09:38):
Wow, boy, does that sound good, doesn't that yes?
Keli (09:41):
So I mean leading with all of that.
Everybody wants to go oh geez,tell me more Geez.
How can I get around WallStreet and the IRS and the
government?
How can I do that?
And that's where these hooksstart being set into.
Mark (09:55):
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah, does it go by any othername, or is it?
Yeah, let me one last thing.
Well, I'm just getting excitedto know what this is.
Keli (10:01):
I know you are.
You're kind of bouncing on thatseat right there.
It's kind of entertaining.
So the other part is this theysandwich in some of the more
sophisticated folks around theUS current economic scenario and
where taxes will go because wekeep spending a whole bunch of
money.
So anybody I've spoken to overthe last decade plus, they
(10:25):
always think income taxes aregoing to go up.
Playing on that fear whicheverybody has, regardless of
what history proves out.
Playing on that fear whicheverybody has, regardless of
what history proves out, thisthing, being tax-free already,
is set to protect you if incometaxes go up over your working
life.
So not only do I have atax-free retirement account
quote-unquote that I have nolimitations on what I can
contribute in it, quote-unquotebut as income tax is going up,
(10:48):
if you do this, you're protectedfrom your money being taxed to
death in your retirement.
So you get to save all you wantand you get to take it out of
the let's say, the root cellarwhere we can all our vegetables
for the winter.
You get to take that outwhenever you want and you won't
pay a dime in taxes.
Mark (11:05):
Since I took my spray, my bullshit sniffer is up.
Keli (11:08):
Starting to say cheese.
I'm going to give you an example.
Mark (11:11):
It's story time.
You remember Ralphie from AChristmas Story?
Yes, and he's listening toLittle Orphan Annie.
Yes, and he orders his decoderring Ovaltine.
Yes, it's Ovaltine decoder ringyes.
And the message from LittleOrphan Annie, if you recall.
(11:33):
He was in the bathroom and he'sstarting to decode it and the
message was be sure to drinkyour Ovaltine 100%.
And what did he say after that?
He was disappointed.
I forget the age.
He said a crummy commercial ora crummy advertisement or
something like that.
Keli (11:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he actually locked himself in the
bathroom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I sensethat's coming here.
Well, what they do with?
This and it could be TFRA, itcould be any sort of other
positioning.
Tactic in advertising is to getyou to stop being defensive and
pull you in through curiosity,through what you were talking
(12:04):
about, these grandiosestatements, yeah so tax-free IRS
, section 7702.
Mark (12:13):
What do you say?
Keli (12:14):
How do you say zero in the military, zero, yeah, yeah,
it's zero, it's not O, it'snever O, you never O, especially
on a field artillery net, yousay the wrong thing and rounds
are going in the wrong direction.
Mark (12:25):
All right.
So we've got tax-free, we'vegot retirement, we've got an
account.
This has got to be better thanmy 401k.
Keli (12:33):
Well, wait, it gets better .
You want to hear a little bitmore of the better.
All right, you sure?
Mark (12:37):
Yeah, I don't want to bore you.
I'll still be a little bit of aRalphie here.
Yeah, I don't want to bore you.
Keli (12:41):
But here's another.
Let's say we're on top, you'llnever lose a dime to performance
in your account.
That's another thing thatthey'll fold in.
If the market's dropping a bear, you won't lose a dime.
That's pretty sexy, especiallywhen people live through 2001
and two.
They live through 2008,.
(13:01):
They live through 2020, theylive through all sorts of these
things, seeing their 401ks go to301ks or 201ks in 08, right, so
that fear.
Mark (13:10):
Yeah, now they're 80ks, that's right, right.
That's right, so that's anotherthing, so I've got tax-free.
Yeah, this is for my retirement, which I could live another 30
years.
Yeah, right, I have an account,which makes it special because
most things like my bank account, my 401k account, it is an
account.
So this is an account, atax-free retirement account.
(13:33):
It also has further credentialbecause it is part of the IRS
code 7702, which gives itlegitimacy.
And in certain circumstances Ihave no downside.
That's right, kelly.
Why don't anybody invest inanything else?
Keli (13:49):
outside of this, because when a person hears what this is
, all of a sudden, all of theirpreconceived notions, all of
their defensive skepticismtypically floods the brain.
Whether they want it to or not,it's just how we're wired.
So imagine this.
Imagine if someone comes up toyou and starts talking to you
(14:12):
about a TFRA in this example,and they're using the terms
we're talking about account andguarantees, and you won't lose a
dime in a stock market bear andall these other things.
Yeah, it sounds really good,but what do you think it might
be that it would cause me, thesales professional, to kind of
(14:33):
basically create urgency anddesire and wants without ever
telling you what the hell thisis.
I mean, if we really are proudof what we have, why don't we
just tell you what it is andthen we can help you understand
how to implement it?
Problem is, people, when itcomes to financial decision
making, like to kick that candown the road, and when they
(14:54):
find out what things are upfront, what do they do?
They shut down.
I'm not going to do that.
What is one of the greatsolutions from financial service
?
Slash insurance that exists forpeople, because life is
uncertain.
What is that solution?
That half of that industrysells.
Mark (15:12):
Wait, wait, don't tell me Ooh, I like that, an insurance
policy, an insurance policy 100%accurate.
Maybe a whole life, maybe aterm.
Keli (15:19):
Right.
So when we're talking aboutinsurance, whenever you hear
this tax-free retirement accountor anything like that, a Roth
IRA for the wealthy, rich man'sRoth, these are all permanent
life insurance policies, notjust any Permanent life
insurance policies that generateand accumulate cash value in
(15:40):
the policy, meaning when I paymy premiums into this policy.
Some of that goes to paying formy life insurance.
There's a cost to insure mylife, but whatever doesn't pay
for that sits in that policy andgrows by virtue of however that
policy is structured to growand add to the accumulated cash
(16:01):
value of that policy itself.
Does that make sense so far?
I mean that's a lot oftechnical.
Mark (16:06):
I'm still working through.
Yeah, yeah, it seems like you'vetaken away a lot and we're just
talking about a generic thoughvery good instrument when it is
for the right person, for theright circumstances and to the
right amount, which is aninsurance policy.
You just have taken away all ofmy anchors tax-free retirement,
(16:27):
vetted and mentioned within theIRS code, yep, section 7702.
Yes, excuse me, 02.
And it's an account?
I get that, but now we'retalking about a policy which is
not an account, is it?
Nor is it an investment.
No, it's not, sneaky turtle.
So you're saying a lot ofthings that you know I will
(16:51):
infer, but you're not reallysaying them.
I didn't say this was aretirement account.
I didn't say this was aninvestment.
But you have me the way you'vepositioned this.
Gee, maybe my 401k isn't what Ishould be investing in or as
much into.
I should be putting it into this.
That's right.
I don't need a Roth IRA becauseyou already said this is
(17:12):
tax-free.
Yeah, that's right.
So when Penn goes toapplication, am I signing up for
a tax-free retirement account,kelly, no, you're actually
applying for life insurance.
Keli (17:23):
Oh yeah, this is a life insurance sales and marketing
tactic.
Nothing wrong with it.
But most people out therelistening to this don't have any
idea where this yellow brickroad's going.
And from the start, tax-freeretirement account, it's going
to a life insurance policy.
So why?
Mark (17:42):
would you tell me it was a ?
Keli (17:42):
tax-free retirement account, because if I say I'm a
life insurance agent and I'mhere to help you take care of
yourself and your family, vastmajority of people don't want to
spend'm a life insurance agentand I'm here to help you take
care of yourself and your family.
Vast majority of people don'twant to spend money on life
insurance and the type of lifeinsurance that funds the
tax-free retirement accountconcept and that's all it is.
It's just a concept that ispermanent cash value life
(18:03):
insurance, which is a lot moreexpensive than term temporary
life insurance, and the vastmajority of people just want to
buy term.
If I come to you and I say Iwant to talk to you about cash
value life insurance and what amiraculous financial instrument
it is, of the 100 people in theroom, 90 have already dismissed
this as something that they wantto know, for whatever reason.
(18:24):
Most of them are lack ofunderstanding, lack of knowledge
, but it's easier to say no, I'mnot going to do that.
But people that want to baityou into clicking, bait you into
setting up a 15-minute freeconsult and they're talking TFRA
.
You have to know that's a lifeinsurance sales engagement for
the person on the other line, soyou've been not really telling
(18:46):
me a transparent truth thiswhole time.
When do I get to start trustingyou?
Because we got to this pointthrough manipulation through
misdirection through preying onwhat we know.
So many of us have as a rootconcern Running out of money in
retirement, being taxed to deathin retirement because we
(19:08):
haven't maybe planned taxesproperly.
I can't fund life insurance and401ks and Roth IRAs, so
something's got to give.
Mark (19:17):
So maybe we need to look at and frame within the context
of what is in our betterinterest and if it arrives at
where a policy, a life insurancepolicy, makes some sense, buy
it wide-eyed and you know whyyou're buying it 100%.
So again, getting back to ourFab Five know what you own and
why you own it, that's right.
Well, right now I don't knowwhat I own until you're having
(19:38):
me sign a document saying I'mbuying life insurance.
Yet you have led me along.
You have misled me, you havemade comparisons that you can
hide behind because you haven'texplicitly said no, it's not a
retirement.
I never said that, that's right.
I never said it was tax-free.
Under all these circumstances,there were no caveats, that's
right.
You led me into this to where Ihave so much vested into this
(20:02):
of my time and energy, and nowyou're telling me it's an
insurance policy.
Keli (20:08):
What's the motivator of buying from someone that brought
you through that, what theycall a sales funnel?
Why do they buy?
Do you think Because there arepeople that buy Maybe 20% of
everybody that speaks or touchesor clicks on a video or
whatever and sends an email andyes, send me your free report.
Why do 15 to 20% of themactually buy?
Here's my opinion of why theyactually buy.
(20:30):
Because, while an agency or afirm is using this advertising
technique, when you starttalking to that professional,
maybe they end up turning out tobe really stand-up people.
Maybe in the first conversationthey clarify things and say let
me help you understand thepower of the optionality that
comes with cash value lifeinsurance.
(20:51):
Maybe that's what happens.
So maybe they find a greatagent, even though the agent is
part of an agency, in thisexample, that uses this
advertisement just to get peoplein the door to say, hey, can
someone talk to me about this?
It might be that others say,geez, based on how, I would have
never called you had I knownthis is life insurance, but that
(21:12):
got me interested.
And now you're proving to methat this is how this whole
thing works.
I've parked all of mypreconceived notions for even
three minutes and something inthere told me you don't
understand the rest of the storyKelly.
And something in there told meyou don't understand the rest of
the story Kelly.
Just maybe this might be rightfor you.
The other way is simplypositioning it, demonizing what
(21:35):
is traditional thinking.
They will also position thisopposing 401k plan, opposing
Roth IRA, opposing actualretirement accounts.
This is better.
Well, mark, you're a singlegentleman, you're 28 years old,
you're making $150,000 a year,you have no kids, you don't even
have a significant other yet.
(21:57):
You didn't have to bring thatup.
But what if you could save moreinto an account that operates
sort of like a Roth IRA?
I have the means to put up to$20,000 a year.
Guess what Rich man's Roth.
Let's talk about cash valuelife insurance.
Let's talk about paying morethan you need to pay in by
virtue of the plan withoutcreating any tax adverse effects
(22:20):
.
And yeah, we can design this soyou can put up to 30,000.
Mark (22:25):
Why can't I just position what it is the root instrument?
Why can't I just position whatit is the root instrument?
Why can't I just position cashvalue the other ways to look at
this instead of cloaking it withtax-free retirement account.
Keli (22:42):
You won't like my answer, but the answer is that true,
transparent statements in many,many consumers' eyeballs
nowadays, with the advent ofsocial media since 2007, they
don't believe it.
It doesn't cause them to wantto immediately do something.
So what do you do?
You have to grab them and pullthem in.
(23:03):
You have something like what?
Eight seconds for an actualconsumer to actually touch on a
social media advertisement.
I think it's even less thanthat nowadays, but seconds, it's
not like you got 30 minutes toexplain anything.
But the difference is, if I usesocial media as a producer, a
life insurance sales agent, Ican touch 7,000 people an hour.
If I'm paying enoughadvertising dollars, I can touch
(23:25):
a marketplace that the AIalgorithms has told me.
This is based on your targetmarket.
We're going to send thisadvertisement at.
I don't know what it is.
Let's say 50 cents an ad basedon number of clicks.
So let's say it sends this adout, I don't know.
Let's say it's 100,000 peopleon Facebook that see this.
I can't call dial enough to dothat, and if I dial someone up
(23:49):
and they don't know me, I'mgoing to voicemail.
They're not picking it up.
Oh, by the way, it might evensay spam on top.
Mark (23:55):
Okay, so we've brought this on ourselves, and forgive
me, I wasn't really payingattention to you.
I was looking at my ESPN andKim Kardashian feed.
Keli (24:06):
So I understand, and that's tough to compete with.
So, in a way way, we've kind ofbrought this on, haven't we?
Mark (24:11):
yeah, we have absolutely we have so when we talk about
the pervasiveness of bullshit,here's an example.
In a lot of ways we asconsumers have brought this on
if it isn't fantastic if itisn't a complete exaggeration no
root in truth.
To a great degree, that's thestuff I look at.
Keli (24:30):
Absolutely.
It's the shock jock has metsocial media.
I mean, really, what gets ourattention Foolish?
Stupid human tricks, animals.
Someone telling you why youshould be afraid?
And let me explain all thereasons why I'm telling you
being afraid is the right thingto feel.
I mean, think of it.
You have an entire populationof adults in this country.
(24:51):
Something like 50% of us thinkone way is going to solve the
country's problems in theelection and the other half is
saying no, this other way willsolve the problems.
Both cannot be right.
There is only one right and Idon't know that either candidate
is going to be right.
But looking at the candidates,you would.
Ultimately, if you took all thecolor away and all of that away
(25:13):
and just look at what wants tobe done, it'd be a lot easier to
make decisions.
But instead it's covered up bythe state apparatus of media
telling you how to think andwhat to think and not telling
you the truth.
The age of anti-truth is uponus.
Yeah.
Mark (25:27):
I got that in there, buddy .
I got it in there.
I got my licks in there, youdid, and you know what?
I might just leave that inthere.
Keli (25:34):
Yeah, why wouldn't you Come on?
That was non-party affiliate,it was just straight down the
fairway.
Mark (25:50):
So, in summarizing all of this, in some ways, the
pervasiveness of bullshit wehave brought it on ourselves
Because, no different than thetabloids that you pass in the
checkout line at the grocerystore, that's what hooks you.
I'm not going to make ajudgment on that, it's just the
way it is, you do it all thetime.
So the fact that you areclicking on tax-free retirement
account you're alreadypredisposed to it because that's
what you want to read.
You don't want to look at your401k account and how perhaps to
(26:12):
optimize your investments withinthat.
Or are you contributing enoughto your 401k?
You're not interested in thatTax-free retirement account.
I've set a hook 100%.
So we've almost set ourselvesup to be receptive to the
bullshit.
Keli (26:26):
In fact not just by the disposition that you're
referring to, but remember,algorithms are everywhere, so if
I touch TFRA on Facebook once,I'm going to get more TFRA stuff
.
It might not be from the sameprovider of that advertising
platform or bit.
So that algorithm knows what Ilook at.
(26:46):
That algorithm will startguessing whether I'll be
interested in X, Y or Z.
And if you never see TFRA inyour life, you probably don't
touch on anything financial atall.
Isn't that interesting?
If you're only touching on thepandas and how they dance on
Antarctic ice, because pandaslive in Antarctic.
So if you're touching only onthat, all you're going to get
(27:08):
are goofy animal feeds,predominantly, with periodically
a feed that's out of nowhere.
Just to see, will Kelly touchit?
If he touches it, he's going toget a little bit more of that.
Mark (27:20):
Okay, kelly, within this instrument we call cash value
life insurance.
You mentioned optionality.
Give me just a summarydescription of what you mean by
that.
Keli (27:30):
Yeah.
So optionality when it comes tocash value life insurance,
again, permanent life insuranceis that you have.
Obviously, if you die, there'sa big tax-free payment that goes
to the beneficiaries of yourpolicy.
So what's in it for me when I'malive?
Is there anything in it for mewhen I'm alive?
And the answer is is.
It depends, and it depends onwhat else your premium dollars
(27:54):
are purchasing and we talk aboutthat in episode eight.
Right, my, is my life insurancepolicy good, bad or ugly?
So, when it comes tooptionality and I'm alive, well,
a lot of these policies todaywhen I say today, I mean today,
not 10 years ago, not 20 yearsago, but today they have
additional features to thatpolicy of something happens to
(28:14):
you.
If you have a long-term careevent, chronic illness, maybe
you're 40 years old but you hada bad accident and you no longer
can think like you used to.
You're still alive,everything's fine.
Well, in that case, thatchronic illness, you may be able
to tap into not the value ofthe cash inside your policy but
the actual death benefit.
If you have a critical injury,critical illness, you may be
(28:36):
able to, if that exists as partof your policy, again be able to
tap into a portion of the deathbenefit, nevermind the cash
value.
We call that revaluing thatasset because of some event that
occurred to you in your life.
You also have the ability touse some of that cash value down
the road when you're inretirement, on a tax advantage
(28:57):
basis to supplement lifestyle.
Oh, by the way, other peoplewill communicate to consumers
that this is a personal bankwhere, after 20, 30 years of
owning the policy, there's somuch cash value in there you can
borrow money out for whateveryou need and you can return that
money back to the policy.
It's a powerful instrument onits own right.
(29:17):
I and you have a problem withpeople misleading you into the
conversation of the benefits ofthe solution and then down the
road, let you know oh, by theway, this is cash value.
Social media today is a greatplatform.
There's a lot of fun of it.
There's a lot of informationthat we're accessing from social
media platforms.
Whatever the platform is thatyou use, great.
(29:39):
Some of the challenges ofsocial media are seeing through
the fog that advertising createsto kind of dupe you into doing
something that you might not doif you knew the root product
they're selling, the conceptthey're selling, or what have
you?
So we're here simply trying tohelp you see very quickly
(30:00):
through the fog and say, ah,tfra, tax-free retirement
account, it's a cash value lifeinsurance policy.
That's where they're going withit.
Nothing wrong in listening,learning a little bit and so
forth, but just that's wherethey're going with it.
Nothing wrong in listening,learning a little bit and so
forth, but just know, that'swhere this is going.
This isn't going to a FidelityInvestments investment portfolio
made up of mutual funds, etfsand so forth.
It's not going there.
It's going to the lifeinsurance side of the industry.
(30:21):
That's the wrap-up.
I don't know.
That's a crappy wrap-up, isn'tit?
Yeah, but you don't have to bepodcast, so let's just leave it.
Okay, at least we're consistent.
Hey, this is kelly.
Thanks for tuning in tobullshit on stilts.
We really enjoy, um, makingthese for you all and getting,
uh, great feedback from you.
(30:42):
Thanks also, a big shout out tobensound dot com, upbeatio, as
well as pixabaycom Greatplatforms that have helped us
turn this podcast into somethinga little bit better than meh.
Thanks a lot.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome to Bullshit on Stilts, a podcast hosted by two
guys with vast financialbackgrounds and great bullshit
sniffers who call out the clichecrap, spackle and flap doodle
spewed by so-called expertsacross the landscape of
financial advice Identifying asdoctors of bullshitology.
You can count on your esteemedhosts okay, maybe knuckleheads
(00:24):
to bring you a lively, if notdeadly, mix of bullshitology.
You can count on your esteemedhosts okay, maybe knuckleheads
to bring you a lively, if notdeadly, mix of serious analysis,
hijinks and tomfoolery, allwithin a 99.1% bullshit-free
safe space.
Let's get after it All right.
Welcome to Bullshit on Stilts.
Today we're starting a newseries in our first year of
(00:48):
podcasting.
Here, what we're going to focuson is how to develop your
bullshit sniffer as it relatesto when you're scrolling through
social media, whether it'sFacebook, tiktok, instagram,
what have you?
There's an awful lot ofmarketing and, more importantly,
an awful lot of advertisingthat's coming out of the
(01:09):
insurance and financial serviceindustry, and so today's
discussion and the future coupleof podcasts following this are
going to really focus in on someof those areas that we see
ourselves on social media thatcan really get a person's, let's
say, juices flowing and notnecessarily in a good way right
(01:30):
around the urgency.
So that's what today is goingto be about, all right.
So, mark, we have a lot ofdiscussions, obviously offline,
even though we don't like eachother.
So the question is, when itcomes to marketing, when it
comes to advertising andfinancial service, insurance
industries, what's going onthere?
How does a financial salesprofessional agencies, brokerage
(01:54):
operations, what have you?
How do they go about gettingpeople to want to touch, tap on
something, watch a video, and soforth?
What's going on?
Mark (02:02):
there.
Well, you've got to get theirattention to start with, and you
don't do that with measuredphrases and speaking more
factually about whatever productor service you're attempting to
get their attention with.
So to get their attention, youneed to make outrageous claims
or the equivalent of bait click.
Keli (02:20):
Um uh, bait click um, oh, oh, you mean clickbait so we
have claims like can't lose yeah, zero's your hero.
Guaranteed returns of betweensomething high and something
even higher?
Mark (02:38):
yeah, nine percent using a different name to describe the
generic underlying product.
Yes, virtue claims, I'm afiduciary, indeed, can't miss
out no loss.
Keli (02:50):
I love the introduction, the.
Mark (02:51):
IRS doesn't want you to know about what your advisor
doesn't want you to know about,but I know all those types of
claims yeah, they're all outthere, it seems.
Keli (03:00):
Even better are the ones that are historically inaccurate
, like Section 401k of the IRCcame and was a result of the
Depression.
Yeah, I have to go back to onething, kelly.
Mark (03:12):
You know the fact that we, as you stated very accurately
was you know we don't like eachother, but it's not that I avoid
you.
Stop looking at me.
So, for example, I came heretoday to do the podcast.
I don't avoid you, I justignore you, and the reason for
that is avoiding takes too mucheffort.
Wake up, wake up, wake up.
Keli (03:38):
I'm sorry, I must have dozed off.
Mark (03:41):
So, kelly, it's September and we're getting into open
enrollment season for retirementaccounts, healthcare decisions
for your health plan if you'rewith a larger employer.
So we're starting to see on theinternet or at least you are
when you're scrolling throughyour device things about
retirement plans.
You mentioned one called a TFRA.
(04:01):
Yes, tell me about what that is, kelly one called a TFRA.
Keli (04:05):
Yes, tell me about what that is, kelly.
Tax-free retirement account,tfra I've come across it quite a
bit personally when I've beenon Facebook or Instagram, and so
tax-free retirement account isultimately and very simply a
line of discussion withperspectives.
Mark (04:20):
Now do me a favor Don't spoil this by telling me what
the root underlying instrumentis.
Oh, okay, so it's a tax-freeretirement account.
I'm going to need a half hourto think through this now.
So tax-free?
Under what conditions?
Keli (04:34):
Tax-free retirement account under the conditions of.
Well, I can't say what it is.
Is that the rule now?
Mark (04:42):
Yeah, don't tell me what the underlying instrument is.
Keli (04:45):
Well, that stinks, all right.
So tax-free retirement accountis an account that I'm just
asking simply, why would youlead with tax-free the T-F-R-A?
Mark (04:54):
because it sounds good, or tax-free?
What do we mean by tax-free?
Keli (04:58):
Tax-free, meaning that you can get access to money to help
support you in retirementwithout paying taxes, Unlike
that big nasty traditional.
Mark (05:06):
IRA.
Hold on here, hold on.
Yeah, that's my BS, my bullshitnasal spray to truly activate
my bullshit receptors.
I had no idea.
All right, let's go at it.
Let's go at it.
Keli (05:23):
Snorting saline solution.
Holy buckets.
Mark (05:25):
Okay, so tax-free retirement account, All right.
So it's called tax-free, allright.
Keli (05:29):
Yeah, so in this case they're positioning that there's
an account that exists, thatyou can put money into, that
when you retire, you can accessthat money tax-free.
Okay, so that's a tax-free.
Mark (05:44):
Right, and oh, by the way, it's not a Roth IRA.
Okay, yeah, so it's tax-free.
Isn't that interesting?
We have the word retirement.
Is it only when you retire?
Keli (05:51):
Well, the tax-free retirement account right out the
chute would make me think, huh,that's interesting, it must be
a Roth IRA.
And then they say but it's nota Roth IRA.
Mark (05:59):
Okay, so tax-free retirement.
That has me leading in aparticular direction, that it is
exclusive to my retirement,because I'm going to be starting
to equate that to an IRA or a401k.
So you got me on the tax-freeretirement account.
Is it indeed an account?
Just yes or no?
And the reason.
Keli (06:20):
I ask that is I?
Mark (06:20):
only have two brain cells and both are competing for
second place.
Keli (06:24):
I get you.
Okay, I only have two braincells and both are competing for
second place.
I get you, okay, I get you.
So yeah, if you stop playingwith the slinky for a second and
just focus here, all right.
So it is not an account aswould be defined by an
investment account, a retirementaccount, a 401k account, even a
pension account.
Those are all accounts.
This has nothing to do with anaccount, in all honesty.
Mark (06:46):
Okay so tax-free retirement account.
You give me a lot of things toanchor on, but I'll bet you
there's more to it than that.
Keli (07:02):
Anchoring bias is a cognitive bias, in other words,
it's how your brain, or my brain, works and figures things out,
and what it does is.
It involves relying heavily onthe first piece of information,
known as the anchor quoteunquote encountered when making
decisions or estimates, oftenleading to insufficient
(07:25):
adjustments from the initialvalue, like tax-free retirement
account.
A lot more to it Tax-freeretirement account.
Mark (07:38):
So a rose is a rose is a rose, wrote Gertrude Stein,
which means that you know youcan use all the words you want
to, but something, its root, itsessence, does not change.
So it seems to me that we'reusing a lot of other words here
that really don't tell me whatit is.
It's a secret right.
Keli (07:57):
This is the Wizard of Oz and nobody gets to look behind
the curtain at the wizard doinghis work.
Mark (08:03):
So can I do a switch on Romeo and Juliet when Juliet is
whispering to herself a rose byany other name would swell,
would a rose she was drinking?
All right, she was drunk onlove Kelly.
So if a rose by any other namewould smell just as sweet,
really this one might smellpretty raunchy.
Keli (08:24):
This one smells and the indicator is that they will also
position this opposing 401kplan, opposing Roth IRA,
opposing actual retirementaccounts.
This is better With a 401k, youhave a maximum amount of money
you can contribute every year,based on the Internal Revenue
Code, section 401k.
(08:44):
You have a limit the amount ofmoney that you can contribute to
an individual retirementaccount, an IRA.
The same is true for a Roth IRA.
With the tax-free retirementaccount, one of the selling
points will be there is nocontribution limit.
You're not limited to $26,000,as an example, in your 401k,
you're not limited to $7,000.
(09:06):
In the IRA or the Roth IRA, youcould put $100,000 a year into
this 7,000.
In the IRA or the Roth IRA, youcould put 100,000 a year into
this.
So it's a really sexy conceptif a person wants tax-free money
in retirement and they have theearnings or the mentality to
save a whole bunch of money intoa quote-unquote account.
So all of a sudden it'stax-free, it's for retirement
(09:29):
and I don't have the limitationsthat other retirement-oriented
savings accounts have.
Mark (09:38):
Wow, boy, does that sound good, doesn't that yes?
Keli (09:41):
So I mean leading with all of that.
Everybody wants to go oh geez,tell me more Geez.
How can I get around WallStreet and the IRS and the
government?
How can I do that?
And that's where these hooksstart being set into.
Mark (09:55):
Isn't that interesting?
Yeah, does it go by any othername, or is it?
Yeah, let me one last thing.
Well, I'm just getting excitedto know what this is.
Keli (10:01):
I know you are.
You're kind of bouncing on thatseat right there.
It's kind of entertaining.
So the other part is this theysandwich in some of the more
sophisticated folks around theUS current economic scenario and
where taxes will go because wekeep spending a whole bunch of
money.
So anybody I've spoken to overthe last decade plus, they
(10:25):
always think income taxes aregoing to go up.
Playing on that fear whicheverybody has, regardless of
what history proves out.
Playing on that fear whicheverybody has, regardless of
what history proves out, thisthing, being tax-free already,
is set to protect you if incometaxes go up over your working
life.
So not only do I have atax-free retirement account
quote-unquote that I have nolimitations on what I can
contribute in it, quote-unquotebut as income tax is going up,
(10:48):
if you do this, you're protectedfrom your money being taxed to
death in your retirement.
So you get to save all you wantand you get to take it out of
the let's say, the root cellarwhere we can all our vegetables
for the winter.
You get to take that outwhenever you want and you won't
pay a dime in taxes.
Mark (11:05):
Since I took my spray, my bullshit sniffer is up.
Keli (11:08):
Starting to say cheese.
I'm going to give you an example.
Mark (11:11):
It's story time.
You remember Ralphie from AChristmas Story?
Yes, and he's listening toLittle Orphan Annie.
Yes, and he orders his decoderring Ovaltine.
Yes, it's Ovaltine decoder ringyes.
And the message from LittleOrphan Annie, if you recall.
(11:33):
He was in the bathroom and he'sstarting to decode it and the
message was be sure to drinkyour Ovaltine 100%.
And what did he say after that?
He was disappointed.
I forget the age.
He said a crummy commercial ora crummy advertisement or
something like that.
Keli (11:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he actually locked himself in the
bathroom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah I sensethat's coming here.
Well, what they do with?
This and it could be TFRA, itcould be any sort of other
positioning.
Tactic in advertising is to getyou to stop being defensive and
pull you in through curiosity,through what you were talking
(12:04):
about, these grandiosestatements, yeah so tax-free IRS
, section 7702.
Mark (12:13):
What do you say?
Keli (12:14):
How do you say zero in the military, zero, yeah, yeah,
it's zero, it's not O, it'snever O, you never O, especially
on a field artillery net, yousay the wrong thing and rounds
are going in the wrong direction.
Mark (12:25):
All right.
So we've got tax-free, we'vegot retirement, we've got an
account.
This has got to be better thanmy 401k.
Keli (12:33):
Well, wait, it gets better .
You want to hear a little bitmore of the better.
All right, you sure?
Mark (12:37):
Yeah, I don't want to bore you.
I'll still be a little bit of aRalphie here.
Yeah, I don't want to bore you.
Keli (12:41):
But here's another.
Let's say we're on top, you'llnever lose a dime to performance
in your account.
That's another thing thatthey'll fold in.
If the market's dropping a bear, you won't lose a dime.
That's pretty sexy, especiallywhen people live through 2001
and two.
They live through 2008,.
(13:01):
They live through 2020, theylive through all sorts of these
things, seeing their 401ks go to301ks or 201ks in 08, right, so
that fear.
Mark (13:10):
Yeah, now they're 80ks, that's right, right.
That's right, so that's anotherthing, so I've got tax-free.
Yeah, this is for my retirement, which I could live another 30
years.
Yeah, right, I have an account,which makes it special because
most things like my bank account, my 401k account, it is an
account.
So this is an account, atax-free retirement account.
(13:33):
It also has further credentialbecause it is part of the IRS
code 7702, which gives itlegitimacy.
And in certain circumstances Ihave no downside.
That's right, kelly.
Why don't anybody invest inanything else?
Keli (13:49):
outside of this, because when a person hears what this is
, all of a sudden, all of theirpreconceived notions, all of
their defensive skepticismtypically floods the brain.
Whether they want it to or not,it's just how we're wired.
So imagine this.
Imagine if someone comes up toyou and starts talking to you
(14:12):
about a TFRA in this example,and they're using the terms
we're talking about account andguarantees, and you won't lose a
dime in a stock market bear andall these other things.
Yeah, it sounds really good,but what do you think it might
be that it would cause me, thesales professional, to kind of
(14:33):
basically create urgency anddesire and wants without ever
telling you what the hell thisis.
I mean, if we really are proudof what we have, why don't we
just tell you what it is andthen we can help you understand
how to implement it?
Problem is, people, when itcomes to financial decision
making, like to kick that candown the road, and when they
(14:54):
find out what things are upfront, what do they do?
They shut down.
I'm not going to do that.
What is one of the greatsolutions from financial service
?
Slash insurance that exists forpeople, because life is
uncertain.
What is that solution?
That half of that industrysells.
Mark (15:12):
Wait, wait, don't tell me Ooh, I like that, an insurance
policy, an insurance policy 100%accurate.
Maybe a whole life, maybe aterm.
Keli (15:19):
Right.
So when we're talking aboutinsurance, whenever you hear
this tax-free retirement accountor anything like that, a Roth
IRA for the wealthy, rich man'sRoth, these are all permanent
life insurance policies, notjust any Permanent life
insurance policies that generateand accumulate cash value in
(15:40):
the policy, meaning when I paymy premiums into this policy.
Some of that goes to paying formy life insurance.
There's a cost to insure mylife, but whatever doesn't pay
for that sits in that policy andgrows by virtue of however that
policy is structured to growand add to the accumulated cash
(16:01):
value of that policy itself.
Does that make sense so far?
I mean that's a lot oftechnical.
Mark (16:06):
I'm still working through.
Yeah, yeah, it seems like you'vetaken away a lot and we're just
talking about a generic thoughvery good instrument when it is
for the right person, for theright circumstances and to the
right amount, which is aninsurance policy.
You just have taken away all ofmy anchors tax-free retirement,
(16:27):
vetted and mentioned within theIRS code, yep, section 7702.
Yes, excuse me, 02.
And it's an account?
I get that, but now we'retalking about a policy which is
not an account, is it?
Nor is it an investment.
No, it's not, sneaky turtle.
So you're saying a lot ofthings that you know I will
(16:51):
infer, but you're not reallysaying them.
I didn't say this was aretirement account.
I didn't say this was aninvestment.
But you have me the way you'vepositioned this.
Gee, maybe my 401k isn't what Ishould be investing in or as
much into.
I should be putting it into this.
That's right.
I don't need a Roth IRA becauseyou already said this is
(17:12):
tax-free.
Yeah, that's right.
So when Penn goes toapplication, am I signing up for
a tax-free retirement account,kelly, no, you're actually
applying for life insurance.
Keli (17:23):
Oh yeah, this is a life insurance sales and marketing
tactic.
Nothing wrong with it.
But most people out therelistening to this don't have any
idea where this yellow brickroad's going.
And from the start, tax-freeretirement account, it's going
to a life insurance policy.
So why?
Mark (17:42):
would you tell me it was a ?
Keli (17:42):
tax-free retirement account, because if I say I'm a
life insurance agent and I'mhere to help you take care of
yourself and your family, vastmajority of people don't want to
spend'm a life insurance agentand I'm here to help you take
care of yourself and your family.
Vast majority of people don'twant to spend money on life
insurance and the type of lifeinsurance that funds the
tax-free retirement accountconcept and that's all it is.
It's just a concept that ispermanent cash value life
(18:03):
insurance, which is a lot moreexpensive than term temporary
life insurance, and the vastmajority of people just want to
buy term.
If I come to you and I say Iwant to talk to you about cash
value life insurance and what amiraculous financial instrument
it is, of the 100 people in theroom, 90 have already dismissed
this as something that they wantto know, for whatever reason.
(18:24):
Most of them are lack ofunderstanding, lack of knowledge
, but it's easier to say no, I'mnot going to do that.
But people that want to baityou into clicking, bait you into
setting up a 15-minute freeconsult and they're talking TFRA
.
You have to know that's a lifeinsurance sales engagement for
the person on the other line, soyou've been not really telling
(18:46):
me a transparent truth thiswhole time.
When do I get to start trustingyou?
Because we got to this pointthrough manipulation through
misdirection through preying onwhat we know.
So many of us have as a rootconcern Running out of money in
retirement, being taxed to deathin retirement because we
(19:08):
haven't maybe planned taxesproperly.
I can't fund life insurance and401ks and Roth IRAs, so
something's got to give.
Mark (19:17):
So maybe we need to look at and frame within the context
of what is in our betterinterest and if it arrives at
where a policy, a life insurancepolicy, makes some sense, buy
it wide-eyed and you know whyyou're buying it 100%.
So again, getting back to ourFab Five know what you own and
why you own it, that's right.
Well, right now I don't knowwhat I own until you're having
(19:38):
me sign a document saying I'mbuying life insurance.
Yet you have led me along.
You have misled me, you havemade comparisons that you can
hide behind because you haven'texplicitly said no, it's not a
retirement.
I never said that, that's right.
I never said it was tax-free.
Under all these circumstances,there were no caveats, that's
right.
You led me into this to where Ihave so much vested into this
(20:02):
of my time and energy, and nowyou're telling me it's an
insurance policy.
Keli (20:08):
What's the motivator of buying from someone that brought
you through that, what theycall a sales funnel?
Why do they buy?
Do you think Because there arepeople that buy Maybe 20% of
everybody that speaks or touchesor clicks on a video or
whatever and sends an email andyes, send me your free report.
Why do 15 to 20% of themactually buy?
Here's my opinion of why theyactually buy.
(20:30):
Because, while an agency or afirm is using this advertising
technique, when you starttalking to that professional,
maybe they end up turning out tobe really stand-up people.
Maybe in the first conversationthey clarify things and say let
me help you understand thepower of the optionality that
comes with cash value lifeinsurance.
(20:51):
Maybe that's what happens.
So maybe they find a greatagent, even though the agent is
part of an agency, in thisexample, that uses this
advertisement just to get peoplein the door to say, hey, can
someone talk to me about this?
It might be that others say,geez, based on how, I would have
never called you had I knownthis is life insurance, but that
(21:12):
got me interested.
And now you're proving to methat this is how this whole
thing works.
I've parked all of mypreconceived notions for even
three minutes and something inthere told me you don't
understand the rest of the storyKelly.
And something in there told meyou don't understand the rest of
the story Kelly.
Just maybe this might be rightfor you.
The other way is simplypositioning it, demonizing what
(21:35):
is traditional thinking.
They will also position thisopposing 401k plan, opposing
Roth IRA, opposing actualretirement accounts.
This is better.
Well, mark, you're a singlegentleman, you're 28 years old,
you're making $150,000 a year,you have no kids, you don't even
have a significant other yet.
(21:57):
You didn't have to bring thatup.
But what if you could save moreinto an account that operates
sort of like a Roth IRA?
I have the means to put up to$20,000 a year.
Guess what Rich man's Roth.
Let's talk about cash valuelife insurance.
Let's talk about paying morethan you need to pay in by
virtue of the plan withoutcreating any tax adverse effects
(22:20):
.
And yeah, we can design this soyou can put up to 30,000.
Mark (22:25):
Why can't I just position what it is the root instrument?
Why can't I just position whatit is the root instrument?
Why can't I just position cashvalue the other ways to look at
this instead of cloaking it withtax-free retirement account.
Keli (22:42):
You won't like my answer, but the answer is that true,
transparent statements in many,many consumers' eyeballs
nowadays, with the advent ofsocial media since 2007, they
don't believe it.
It doesn't cause them to wantto immediately do something.
So what do you do?
You have to grab them and pullthem in.
(23:03):
You have something like what?
Eight seconds for an actualconsumer to actually touch on a
social media advertisement.
I think it's even less thanthat nowadays, but seconds, it's
not like you got 30 minutes toexplain anything.
But the difference is, if I usesocial media as a producer, a
life insurance sales agent, Ican touch 7,000 people an hour.
If I'm paying enoughadvertising dollars, I can touch
(23:25):
a marketplace that the AIalgorithms has told me.
This is based on your targetmarket.
We're going to send thisadvertisement at.
I don't know what it is.
Let's say 50 cents an ad basedon number of clicks.
So let's say it sends this adout, I don't know.
Let's say it's 100,000 peopleon Facebook that see this.
I can't call dial enough to dothat, and if I dial someone up
(23:49):
and they don't know me, I'mgoing to voicemail.
They're not picking it up.
Oh, by the way, it might evensay spam on top.
Mark (23:55):
Okay, so we've brought this on ourselves, and forgive
me, I wasn't really payingattention to you.
I was looking at my ESPN andKim Kardashian feed.
Keli (24:06):
So I understand, and that's tough to compete with.
So, in a way way, we've kind ofbrought this on, haven't we?
Mark (24:11):
yeah, we have absolutely we have so when we talk about
the pervasiveness of bullshit,here's an example.
In a lot of ways we asconsumers have brought this on
if it isn't fantastic if itisn't a complete exaggeration no
root in truth.
To a great degree, that's thestuff I look at.
Keli (24:30):
Absolutely.
It's the shock jock has metsocial media.
I mean, really, what gets ourattention Foolish?
Stupid human tricks, animals.
Someone telling you why youshould be afraid?
And let me explain all thereasons why I'm telling you
being afraid is the right thingto feel.
I mean, think of it.
You have an entire populationof adults in this country.
(24:51):
Something like 50% of us thinkone way is going to solve the
country's problems in theelection and the other half is
saying no, this other way willsolve the problems.
Both cannot be right.
There is only one right and Idon't know that either candidate
is going to be right.
But looking at the candidates,you would.
Ultimately, if you took all thecolor away and all of that away
(25:13):
and just look at what wants tobe done, it'd be a lot easier to
make decisions.
But instead it's covered up bythe state apparatus of media
telling you how to think andwhat to think and not telling
you the truth.
The age of anti-truth is uponus.
Yeah.
Mark (25:27):
I got that in there, buddy .
I got it in there.
I got my licks in there, youdid, and you know what?
I might just leave that inthere.
Keli (25:34):
Yeah, why wouldn't you Come on?
That was non-party affiliate,it was just straight down the
fairway.
Mark (25:50):
So, in summarizing all of this, in some ways, the
pervasiveness of bullshit wehave brought it on ourselves
Because, no different than thetabloids that you pass in the
checkout line at the grocerystore, that's what hooks you.
I'm not going to make ajudgment on that, it's just the
way it is, you do it all thetime.
So the fact that you areclicking on tax-free retirement
account you're alreadypredisposed to it because that's
what you want to read.
You don't want to look at your401k account and how perhaps to
(26:12):
optimize your investments withinthat.
Or are you contributing enoughto your 401k?
You're not interested in thatTax-free retirement account.
I've set a hook 100%.
So we've almost set ourselvesup to be receptive to the
bullshit.
Keli (26:26):
In fact not just by the disposition that you're
referring to, but remember,algorithms are everywhere, so if
I touch TFRA on Facebook once,I'm going to get more TFRA stuff
.
It might not be from the sameprovider of that advertising
platform or bit.
So that algorithm knows what Ilook at.
(26:46):
That algorithm will startguessing whether I'll be
interested in X, Y or Z.
And if you never see TFRA inyour life, you probably don't
touch on anything financial atall.
Isn't that interesting?
If you're only touching on thepandas and how they dance on
Antarctic ice, because pandaslive in Antarctic.
So if you're touching only onthat, all you're going to get
(27:08):
are goofy animal feeds,predominantly, with periodically
a feed that's out of nowhere.
Just to see, will Kelly touchit?
If he touches it, he's going toget a little bit more of that.
Mark (27:20):
Okay, kelly, within this instrument we call cash value
life insurance.
You mentioned optionality.
Give me just a summarydescription of what you mean by
that.
Keli (27:30):
Yeah.
So optionality when it comes tocash value life insurance,
again, permanent life insuranceis that you have.
Obviously, if you die, there'sa big tax-free payment that goes
to the beneficiaries of yourpolicy.
So what's in it for me when I'malive?
Is there anything in it for mewhen I'm alive?
And the answer is is.
It depends, and it depends onwhat else your premium dollars
(27:54):
are purchasing and we talk aboutthat in episode eight.
Right, my, is my life insurancepolicy good, bad or ugly?
So, when it comes tooptionality and I'm alive, well,
a lot of these policies todaywhen I say today, I mean today,
not 10 years ago, not 20 yearsago, but today they have
additional features to thatpolicy of something happens to
(28:14):
you.
If you have a long-term careevent, chronic illness, maybe
you're 40 years old but you hada bad accident and you no longer
can think like you used to.
You're still alive,everything's fine.
Well, in that case, thatchronic illness, you may be able
to tap into not the value ofthe cash inside your policy but
the actual death benefit.
If you have a critical injury,critical illness, you may be
(28:36):
able to, if that exists as partof your policy, again be able to
tap into a portion of the deathbenefit, nevermind the cash
value.
We call that revaluing thatasset because of some event that
occurred to you in your life.
You also have the ability touse some of that cash value down
the road when you're inretirement, on a tax advantage
(28:57):
basis to supplement lifestyle.
Oh, by the way, other peoplewill communicate to consumers
that this is a personal bankwhere, after 20, 30 years of
owning the policy, there's somuch cash value in there you can
borrow money out for whateveryou need and you can return that
money back to the policy.
It's a powerful instrument onits own right.
(29:17):
I and you have a problem withpeople misleading you into the
conversation of the benefits ofthe solution and then down the
road, let you know oh, by theway, this is cash value.
Social media today is a greatplatform.
There's a lot of fun of it.
There's a lot of informationthat we're accessing from social
media platforms.
Whatever the platform is thatyou use, great.
(29:39):
Some of the challenges ofsocial media are seeing through
the fog that advertising createsto kind of dupe you into doing
something that you might not doif you knew the root product
they're selling, the conceptthey're selling, or what have
you?
So we're here simply trying tohelp you see very quickly
(30:00):
through the fog and say, ah,tfra, tax-free retirement
account, it's a cash value lifeinsurance policy.
That's where they're going withit.
Nothing wrong in listening,learning a little bit and so
forth, but just that's wherethey're going with it.
Nothing wrong in listening,learning a little bit and so
forth, but just know, that'swhere this is going.
This isn't going to a FidelityInvestments investment portfolio
made up of mutual funds, etfsand so forth.
It's not going there.
It's going to the lifeinsurance side of the industry.
(30:21):
That's the wrap-up.
I don't know.
That's a crappy wrap-up, isn'tit?
Yeah, but you don't have to bepodcast, so let's just leave it.
Okay, at least we're consistent.
Hey, this is kelly.
Thanks for tuning in tobullshit on stilts.
We really enjoy, um, makingthese for you all and getting,
uh, great feedback from you.
(30:42):
Thanks also, a big shout out tobensound dot com, upbeatio, as
well as pixabaycom Greatplatforms that have helped us
turn this podcast into somethinga little bit better than meh.
Thanks a lot.
We'll see you next time.
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