October 6, 2025 • 53 mins
🫀 Do you have the guts to ask yourself what you need? And why can it feel like the dream where you're late for a test you didn't study for, to only realize you're on stage and forgot to wear pants? This week, Caitlan and Lyndie talk with LauraAura to identify why meeting your needs can take a lot of courage, especially when doing so in big ways.
🛋️ LauraAura is a dynamic Keynote Speaker, Personal Growth Coach, and host of The Gutsy Podcast, a Top 100 show helping people own their desires and take gutsy action. With over 18 years as a business owner and a decade of speaking experience, she’s helped countless individuals and teams break through hesitation and move boldly toward what they truly want.
Connect with her here:
https://www.tiktok.com/@thatlauraaura/
https://www.instagram.com/thatlauraaura/
https://www.facebook.com/thatlauraaura
https://linkedin.com/in/thatlauraaura
📗 Caitlan is a Creative Coach, Speaker, and loves getting lost in a book and on a hiking trail.
Follow me @CreativeCaitlan
Find all my projects at https://caitlantrewhella.com
📙 Lyndie Laramore is a Career Coach, licensed Therapist, and Consultant and knows exactly how to bring down the house with her classical singing.
Follow me @LyndieLaramore
Use our link to get 15% off your purchase of Loop earplugs to live life at your volume: https://loop-earplugs.sjv.io/09304N
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Welcome back to The Burnout Break Room, the podcast that's
like a break room but helpful, where we look at burnout through
a realistic lens, talk about ways to take a break from the
grind and spill the tea. I'm Caitlin Trujillo, creativity
coach and speaker. And I'm Lindy Larimore, licensed
therapist and certified career coach.
(00:26):
We're your hosts and thank you for joining us here in the
Burnout Break Room. This episode is brought to you
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(00:46):
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(01:09):
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How you doing Lindy? I am good, Caitlin.
I'm a little tired, not going tolie.
I first of all, it's very drearyhere on the East Coast.
(01:30):
Lots of actually really needed rain.
We've enjoyed the most beautifulAugust I, I have ever
experienced. It was like beautiful blue skies
for like all of August, most of September.
But of course we needed the rain.
So it's it's good that it's here.
I'm just coming back from a conference, a psychology
(01:52):
conference at Boston College, and my brain feels like mush, so
I apologize in advance if I don't make sense.
How about you, Caitlin? Well, first of all, the no, no
apology needed because every, every time that we can show up,
(02:14):
even if it's not at 100%, we arestill moving forward.
And that's, that's still honoring our energy levels,
which of course is not only important here in the break
room, but everywhere, everywherewe go.
So I think that's always great to reinforce that message.
I am I am definitely living thatmessage today as well post move
(02:42):
myself. I'm officially in Los Angeles
and yeah, I'm I'm sore in placesthat I didn't know I had.
But even I I think the other side of that too is recognizing
and even, you know, taking time to sit with that sense of
(03:04):
accomplishment that we get from what we do that, you know, has
made us tired essentially because there there is a lot of
satisfaction to be had in good work, a job well done.
I am taking this as an opportunity to spend more time
in that appreciation rather thanjust, you know, accomplish this
(03:30):
thing. Great.
What's next? Moving on to the next thing,
which I have a very bad habit ofdoing.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
No. It's not at least.
Me at all. Right.
No, but I'm, I'm also very happyto hear that you had a great
time at the conference and I hope we get to hear a little bit
(03:53):
more about that too. Absolutely.
So today we have the absolute joy of having Laura Ora on the
podcast. Laura Ora is a dynamic keynote
speaker, personal growth coach, and host of The Gutsy Podcast, a
top 100 show helping people own their desires and take gutsy
(04:15):
action. With over 18 years as a business
owner and a decade of speaking experience, she's helped
countless individuals and teams breakthrough hesitation and move
boldly toward what they want. Laura, welcome to the Break
room. It's so wonderful to have you.
It's so great to be here, thanksfor having me.
I will say, Laura Aura, I just got done listening to a couple
(04:39):
of fabulous episodes of the Gutsy Podcast.
I highly recommend that folks listen to this one in
particular. Power Back 254.
Everyone, please go listen to this right now.
It's a little over 20 minutes. Where are you conforming to fit
in Laura or I? I want to hear more about your
(05:01):
story and what kind of bring brought you to the the gutsy
podcast. But I just want to say, like,
what a powerful message you're putting out into the world.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing it.
You know, it, it's, it's kind ofcool.
I'm hearing more often than not,I'm like, where did you, where
did you learn about the gutsy podcast?
(05:23):
And so many women are like, my therapist recommended it And,
and I, I just, I take that to the highest honor.
I, I hold that very dear to my heart, because if, if the
fantastic work that you are doing is being supported by the
message that I'm putting out, I,I think that's a win win all
around. So thank you for listening.
And for sharing. Absolutely.
(05:45):
And, and Laura or I want to talkabout that podcast specifically
actually, but also I'd love to hear more about you and like
what brought you to this work. Yeah, it's, it's been a wild
journey, I will say that for sure.
I'll give you the Cliff Notes version.
So Long story short, I've been abusiness owner for 18 years.
It's, it's been a minute and a half.
(06:06):
I did not start out as a speakeror a coach.
I actually started out in graphic design.
So my background, my history is in graphic design.
My very first job was working atthe phone book designing ads for
the Yellow Pages. So you can imagine it was just
as exciting as it sounds. I, I knew that I wanted to do
design, but I did not want to continue to do it there.
(06:28):
So when I was 6 1/2 months pregnant, I quit that job to
start my first business, which was a branding agency.
So that was one of my first early gutsy moves that I can put
a pin in. People thought I was crazy, you
know? What about your stability?
What about this? What about that?
And I'm like, yeah, but I'm miserable.
I'm limited. I feel unappreciated.
(06:50):
And I have a whole lot more to give.
So I figured out how to launch abusiness, and I did that.
So I ran that agency for 16 years.
But alongside running the agency, I found myself in these
like, really beautiful pockets of information, pockets of
conversation, almost like being in a break room, right?
(07:11):
An unintentional breakout break room where we were working with
entrepreneurs. And I found that, like, we would
have like, the normal meeting, right?
The talk about the branding and the website and all the
beautiful things that we were creating together.
But then after that meeting, theowner would often pull me to the
side and be like, Laura, do you have a second?
And in that space, they wanted to talk about the stuff that
(07:32):
terrified them that they couldn't share with anybody
else. The big idea that they had that
everyone else in the world was questioning to death, how are
they going to do this? The, the shift that they wanted
to make that felt risky or gutsythat, you know, everyone else
was, was questioning. And I just found in that space,
I'm like, I feel alive in these conversations.
(07:55):
I love the depth. I love the real, I run towards
vulnerability instead of away from it.
And when they left those meetings, they knew what to do
next or they just felt like theycould do it.
You know, they didn't need permission, but they needed to
hear permission. So I figured if they're feeling
like that, and I know I feel like that, maybe other
(08:18):
entrepreneurs feel like that too.
And I figured I was like, I wantto start interviewing them, like
actually putting these stories out into the world.
So elevenish years ago, I launched at the time what was
called the Green Couch Project, where it was a whole production.
These entrepreneurs came in and we had these vulnerable
conversations and shared it out with the world.
Turns out not just a few people feel the same way.
(08:40):
Every entrepreneur has some, some relatability to one of
these stories or all of them. So it, it grew, I wanted to do
more of it, but the cost of the production, all that was just
too much. So I'm like, OK, well, how can I
do more of this and lower my cost?
I'll figure out how to launch a podcast.
So I bought a $25 headset off ofAmazon.
(09:02):
I figured out how to use garage Band and I changed the gut the
green couch project into the gutsy podcast.
And that was seven years ago nowat this point, you know, and
alongside that, I started to speak, I started to go to like
Chamber of Commerce and lunch and learns and companies were
having me come in and talk to their teams.
And, you know, I, I just thoughtI would do branding forever.
(09:24):
And I loved it until I didn't. You know, COVID changed a lot of
things. There was a lot to face with
realizing that I had unintentionally built my
business off the backbone of my insecurities.
I, I, everything looked fantastic on paper, but I was
miserable and literally sick every single day.
And I just got to a point like I, I got to make a decision.
(09:45):
What do I, what do I want? What do I actually want?
And so my passion for branding started to diffuse and my
passion for speaking and and coaching women and and leaders
increased. And I got to a point where I had
a breakdown, an actual ugly ass breakdown.
But I admitted to myself for thefirst time ever that I don't
(10:07):
want to do this anymore. So I did that in July of 23.
By December, it was sold. Two months later, I sold the
commercial building that we had fully intended on building out.
I got rid of everything that didn't belong anymore.
Everything that was out of alignment had to go and now I'm
I'm full time. I'm all in on speaking and
coaching and I've never been happier.
(10:29):
I'm getting chills, Caitlin. I mean, how much does this align
with like the conversation? We were just like, it's it's
weird. The universe always knows when
we're supposed to talk. Certainly, absolutely, Laura,
the alignment is just off the charts and it's unbelievable.
(10:49):
And, and thank you so much for for sharing your story because
as an entrepreneur myself, I could not align more with, with
what you're saying, especially in these spaces where we want to
build something and we have different ways of wanting to go
about that. But there's so many different
voices out there that talk aboutthe prescribed way that we, we
(11:14):
can do these things. The, you know, the, the tried
and true method. And if you just use my formula,
then this will work for you as well.
And all of these things look great on paper, but then the
reality of those things is not making you happy and is not
serving you. And it takes an incredible
(11:35):
amount of guts to to use the namesake of your podcast.
Yeah, it it takes a lot of guts to to forge your own path, to do
it your own way. And what a lot of people don't
know or see what happens behind the scenes is even people in
your most immediate circles can either have doubts about what
(11:58):
you're doing or maybe don't understand it.
And it can also make this kind of journey very lonely.
For sure. Listen, that whole if you just
do this, if you here's what I did and if you just replicate my
8 steps, then you'll have the same success.
And it's like, Oh my gosh, I want to beat my head off against
the wall. It's not to say that there
(12:20):
aren't pieces in there that can work for you.
I mean, clearly it has worked for someone in some way, but I
think the biggest part about that is, is having the
discernment to know what works for you, what feels good and
where can I be influenced? Where can I be inspired by this?
And then how can I make that my own?
(12:41):
I, I, I've gotten, I've gotten wrapped up in that so many
times. And it's like, it has to feel
good to you. It has to make sense to you
because otherwise you're replicating somebody else's
success on a journey that's completely different than yours.
And and then what are you left with?
Your you feel like you wasted money, you wasted time.
(13:02):
This didn't actually work. What's wrong with me?
And it triggers this whole spiral of, you know, mental
doubt upon yourself. And it's like be be inspired by
what somebody else is doing and showing you.
Take the pieces, but mold it into your own.
Laura or the the the piece that felt so chilling to me was you
(13:23):
call this out actually, because Caitlin and I often have like
really fabulous, like open up toeach other conversations and
then we press record, you know, and yeah, I'm not going to share
everything about my life with everyone, you know, with the
whole world. And so sometimes we just need to
catch up as like humans. But in this particular
conversation, what we were talking about was my experience
(13:47):
at the this this conference thatI went to that I will tell you
chewed me up and spat me out about 85 times and in four days.
And for so many different reasons, which I I do want to
unpack a little bit if that's OK, but of.
Course. What Kaylin and I were talking
about was there were the conversations that were
(14:09):
happening in these sessions thatwere literally with a microphone
in your hand being recorded. You know, you can go listen to
them now. And so those, that's where
everyone was like having the very intellectual, you know,
these were pH DS and psychoanalysts, which is a whole
mood. Let me tell you, I've never been
so grateful not to have a doctorate in my life.
(14:32):
And then they were cutting the conversations we were having off
to the side. And I was struck by just how
intimate and vulnerable these conversations were in a way that
I've never experienced before inmy life.
In a way that made me question, am I oversharing, right?
(14:53):
Because I would share something about my life and then they
would match that energy and share a vulnerability.
And it felt so powerful and it felt like so needed in the
moment that we're in, but so vulnerable that it made me
question like, what did I do something wrong, right?
(15:14):
Like it was immediately followedby that shame that we all know
happens after being vulnerable that that I need to retreat,
right? But what struck me was I got the
sense and I that there's something happening under the
surface in the world right now where people are it.
I almost got the sense like we need to access intimacy and love
(15:38):
and compassion and connection. And it's not happening up here,
right? And by up here, I know this is
we're on a podcast. I'm pointing to like the kind of
prefrontal cortex, let's have big ideas.
Let's think together. It's the let's feel together and
let's be open and raw with each other in a way that's respectful
and not taking advantage. And so when you talked about the
(16:02):
Green Couch project and your gutsy podcast, it almost felt
like were you like listening to our conversation.
So I'm curious to know like whatwhat your experience has been
with bringing those intimate conversations to the to the
foreground? Yeah, you know, that
vulnerability hangover is real when you're like, Oh my gosh,
(16:25):
was that too much? I mean, the good thing about
recording the podcast is I can record it and sit with it before
it goes out into the world. So, you know, there, there have
been some episodes like that forsure.
One of the top downloaded episodes, by the way, is my
story about bankruptcy. So, you know, it just it just it
just shows you that when you talk about the real stuff, the
(16:49):
hard stuff, the human stuff, there are other people.
I mean, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people that
have listened to that episode that I will never know.
But something about it impacted them or it gave them permission
or it or it reminded them that, you know, they're not, they're
not bad with money or things. Didn't you know they're going to
(17:10):
screw up because they went through this too?
Or if they're getting ready to face it, maybe it gave them some
information about it. But you know, these, these
conversations, they, they just humanize, you know, to your
point about we, we just want to feel we live in a very curated
society. I just want what's real, you
(17:31):
know, don't get me wrong, I lovea good aesthetic.
I, I like my stuff to look nice too.
But at the end of the day, if wejust pull back a couple of
layers and we create a space where people feel comfortable to
share or feel a little bit more bold to want to speak up or talk
about it, the unity that happensin those spaces is immeasurable,
(17:55):
right? They, they feel, they feel safe.
They feel hurt like it with the women that I coach, they're
like, I don't have anybody else that I can talk to about this
stuff. You know, everybody in my world,
everyone comes to me. Who do I go to?
And so just creating the space and having these vulnerable
conversations is an invitation to talk about the hard stuff, to
(18:20):
talk about the big stuff. It's not always the bad stuff
either. Sometimes it is the crazy idea
or the next step in your life, or I'm ready to level up.
Or, you know, I work with a lot of women that are looking to
transition out of careers and into entrepreneurialism.
That's a big shift. That's a really big shift.
Who do you talk to about that? I'll raise my hand in that
(18:42):
situation, but you know what I mean?
So these vulnerable conversations, you know, you
don't have to share anything that you're not ready to.
I also like to put that out there.
Sometimes people are like, you know, I, I, I'm going to have to
go there. I'm going to have to talk about
it. It's like you can talk about it
when you're ready, but I'm goingto continue to hold the
container to let you know that when you're ready, the space is
(19:04):
open. So powerful and so needed.
And I, I want to transition to the, to speak specifically about
the podcast that you recorded about conformity and to share
in, in light of what we're talking about.
Like I came to this podcast feeling very strongly that I
(19:25):
wanted to talk about this. And then when I heard your
episode on conformity, I, I, I felt like, OK, I want to talk to
Laura Ora about this. I want your take on it.
So I had a profound insight intomy own burnout process.
I guess I'm on the green couch now.
I'm just going to call that out.Let's do it.
(19:46):
I still have that green couch bythe way, it's in my office.
That's great. That's it sounds like a cool
couch. So I am a therapist.
I'm a master's level therapist, which means I don't have my
doctorate, and I'm typically really fine with that and
actually feel strongly that that's kind of important to have
access to like master's level versus.
(20:08):
Dedicating 8 years to 10 years of your life.
So I went to this conference in person for the first time.
This is at Boston College, whichis a pretty like demanding
academic space. And they have wonderful programs
for counseling and psychology. And I got a room.
I was like so proud of myself assomeone with ADHDI was like I
(20:29):
did the thing I adulted, I did the thing I had signed up for
this conference months early. I got the early bird rate or, or
I think you shared you have ADHD.
You might understand how like intensely amazing that is.
I. I listen, I'm clapping because
like the intention is there and you're like, Oh yeah, I'm gonna
do that. And then like 3 weeks go by and
(20:50):
you're like shit. Yeah.
I, I, I I did and created 40 things in between the time that
I saw that thing and the time that I actually got the thing.
So kudos to you, my friend. Yes, this is a big deal.
I was so proud of myself the night before.
It's like 1:00 in the morning because I had these other, these
other like professional obligations.
(21:10):
I had to go to a meeting, go to a rehearsal, throw a party, and
then get ready for this conference the night before.
So it's 1:00 AM. I have the sinking feeling
remembering that the sessions I was planning on going to the
next day were like breakout sessions from the actual event.
I was like, did I sign up for these sessions?
(21:31):
And so I was pouring through emails from May and I'm like, I
don't know if I did, and I have no way of knowing.
There was nothing that I could go to and be like, you've signed
up for this and you've signed upfor that.
So I'm like, all right, I got toput my big lady pants on and
walk into that room and say, I have no idea if I signed up for
these sessions. Can you help me out?
So I did and I happened to, and I've never been on this campus
(21:55):
before. Well, not in these spaces.
So I'm already 15 minutes late because this is just how I
operate. But also my GPS took me to like
the wrong place first. It was just one of those days,
right? I walk in, I'm like, I don't
think I've signed up of these sessions, but can you let me
know what, can you look me up? And they're like, no, you
didn't, but they were lovely. They're like, just go ahead
(22:16):
anyway, We'll take care of it. Which was so wonderful.
They were so understanding. So I walk into a room full of
highly academic, highly intelligent, very learned pH DS
and every single one of them were saying so after doing all
the reading, I, you know, like, that's how they started all of
(22:36):
their sentences. So you know that dream, Caitlin,
you're laughing. You can probably tell me what
this dream is where you're you're showing up to a class
during finals week that you've never been to before and haven't
done any of the readings for. I was living that dream and I
immediately clocked I am filled with shame right now.
(23:00):
I am filled with shame. And all I wanted to do was hide
and I wanted to like sink into this chair.
I wanted to make sure nobody sawme.
And then we had to do like the introductions and I decided I'm
just going to share that I'm having that dream right now.
Everyone relates to this and andI did and I got a laugh and I
was like, I haven't done any readings.
I'm so sorry. I'm so excited for this
conversation and I'm so sorry that I didn't come prepared.
(23:23):
And then a few, you know, an hour in, I asked the question
that I thought was probably something everyone else was
thinking, which was simply like,these are really amazing
concepts that are really needed in the field of psychology, but,
you know, in community mental health where folks can't afford
to be here. Basically.
I was not this articulate, let me tell you, because I was
(23:46):
filled with shame and couldn't form sentences.
And the whole room kind of turned around with this.
The, the, I don't know what thisbook is, but it's like, oh,
something controversial is happening right now.
And everyone started to use the word critique, like, oh, this
critique that you just brought up.
And I suddenly felt like I didn't, that's not what I meant.
(24:08):
I wasn't, I didn't mean to critique.
So again, filled with shame, right?
And when I wanted to hide and I wanted to sink into my chair,
but now everyone was looking at me And so I had to like crawl
back out. So what I, so this happened
throughout the entire four days there.
And it was this cycle of either do something that fills me with
(24:31):
shame or share something that fills me with shame, the need to
hide, but then choosing to kind of peek my head back out and
then being met with this really lovely.
Like what I should say too is after after all the people were
like, you know, you're a critique of blah, blah, blah.
People would come up to after upto me afterwards and say, I'm
really glad that you asked that question.
It really needed to be asked. Yeah.
(24:52):
So that was my experience over and over again.
And it gave me this profound insight into This is why I was
burned out before, because I wasasking the questions that I
thought everyone else was thinking, but actually turned
out to be maybe received as really critical of the system.
And some people felt appropriately threatened.
I understand. And some people were really glad
(25:14):
that they asked. That was my experience in the
professional world. It landed me in the hospital
briefly. So anyway, that was my green
couch moment and Laura Ora, I would love to hear like your
thoughts on all of it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Help, help,
help. It's a, it's a profound story.
(25:37):
And, and I'm, and I'm glad that you're sharing it here because
again, somebody is going to listen or is listening right
now. And it's like, Oh my gosh, I've
been in that same position. I, I want to, I, I want to give
you a couple of perspectives, ifthat's OK Yes.
So the first thing that I wantedto reflect back to you is how
(25:58):
incredibly courageous, how much gutsy you displayed in every
part of that story. The running late.
A lot of people would be like, I'm late.
I'm not going to show up now. I'm going to feel ridiculous.
I'm going home. The realization that you're not
(26:19):
signed up for any of those classes or the seminars.
Oh, I'm not signed up for anything.
I don't want to walk in that room and be that person.
I'm going home sitting around the table bringing up questions
that you think that people want to hear but you're not sure but
you're curious about. Most people would just keep
their hands down. That was gutsy, right?
(26:39):
I mean, there's like 5 or 6 other pieces of this where you
chose to make a gutsy move. So I just want to call you out
for that in the best of ways. Because sometimes in those shame
cycles or in those areas where you're feeling very, very
exposed, nothing looks like you're being gutsy or brave.
It just simply looks like I'm just, I'm a hot mess express and
(27:04):
now I've caused a ripple effect.So kudos to you for all of those
things. The other thing that really,
really stands out to me is 1. If we don't ask the questions
and we don't question these things, whatever it is, it
continues. Growth doesn't happen, evolution
doesn't happen, innovation stopshappening.
(27:25):
Everyone should always be questioning everything if it's
not feeling right or if there's an alternative way or there's a
new idea to, to grow or expand something and you have that
within you. I, I kind of feel like it's our
responsibility individually to bring that up.
And it takes an immense amount of gutsy to raise your hand,
(27:48):
whether it's in a conference room or a seminar or a
conference or in a one-on-one conversation.
It's, it takes a lot of guts to,to raise your hand and either
suggest something or to questionsomething.
But without it, innovation dies.The other huge thing that comes
out to me when you tell me this story is exactly where the
(28:11):
freaking Green Couch Project wasborn.
It's in those side conversationswhere the real shit's actually
happening. Because I will bet that the
majority of the people in that room probably agreed with you to
some degree. Or it it got them thinking in a
new way. Or it made them say like, oh, I
(28:31):
hadn't thought about it that way.
There was probably a few key players that had big energy.
I'm going to guess, oh, yeah, big energies, maybe some big
egos, maybe the way that they carry themselves.
Maybe it's the letters after their name.
It could be a myriad of things. And I'm not saying any of those
(28:53):
things are wrong. I'm just saying that sometimes
people have more dominant personalities that take over a
room that makes everyone else shrink.
So it probably felt like you were in a, in a spotlight of
like, oh shit, what have I done?But really, there were probably
just a few key players that werereally pushing back at you.
But I'm going to guess the majority of that room was like,
(29:14):
thank you, thank you. Because this is the shit that's
actually happening. So the shame is real.
I I hear you. But I hope that some of that has
maybe started to turn a different part of the Rubik's
Cube in your brain to make you say, OK, maybe this was actually
innovation. I show up for myself.
(29:36):
That's one. I showed up for other people and
I questioned things in the name of progressiveness, in the name
of making things better. So that's my story, and I'm
sticking to it. How does that land?
Oh, Laura, I mean, it's so powerful and so right.
And I'm thinking about, you know, just our listeners and,
(29:57):
and you, you bring up something that I'd never thought about
before and even in the context of that experience, but in
professional experiences or personal experiences, the big
energies in the room and how, I mean, I'd love to just hear you
speak more about that and like, you know, stories that you've
heard about how that has those energies have silenced or
(30:20):
stopped progression or stopped evolution.
Yeah. Because I feel like that's
that's really important to talk about.
Yeah. I mean, I think it happens a lot
in a lot of spaces, whether it'sat, you know, a networking group
or a meeting or a conference room meeting or a client meeting
or, you know, if you're at a bigevent, whatever.
(30:41):
I think it happens in a ton of rooms.
I think it happens with all genders.
I don't think it's mutually exclusive, but think about how
many women stay quiet when a quote UN quote dominant male is
in the room. That lots of hot head nods here
when you know, he or she is further along than me.
(31:01):
They're higher up in the company.
They're they're AC level type ofperson.
They're in charge of something. There's just this perception
that just because someone is quote UN quote like ahead or
above me, that I don't have the ability to question something or
to push back or to suggest something new.
And, and I can understand that that energy is very real, but
(31:25):
it's also perception and it, what we allow will continue.
And so if we don't push back, ifwe don't challenge, if we don't
present new ideas, then guess what?
Everyone in the room is, is having that same experience.
Whereas if one person raises their hand and asks that
question, to your point, you raised your hand and said, hey,
(31:46):
what about this? You unknowingly gave the people
in that room permission that they didn't need but needed to
see displayed to know that, hey,we can be in a room with very
high level educated people and still ask questions.
That their title, that their presence, that the way that
they're dressed doesn't mean that they're better than me or
(32:09):
further along than me. We're having a shared human
experience here. And it's it's a personal
decision. I don't there's no magic formula
back to Caitlin, the early on inthe conversation.
There's there's no three-step process that I can give you here
to. If you just do this, then you
can then you can handle all the high level people in your life.
But it's really like, what am I,what am I feeling?
(32:30):
And it comes back to trusting yourself, trusting yourself in
those moments of like, I have something to say.
I'm really feeling strongly about this.
And if I don't say it, what is the cost of that?
If we start to shift our our energy and our perspective to
that, instead of what's going tohappen if I do, things are going
to continue to evolve, but in a way better way.
(32:52):
Laura, I, I just want to say first of all, to, to call out
what you're talking about in terms of self trust.
And especially like, as we talk about this, this experience that
that you shared, Lindy of, you know, going into these very
professional spaces that can be very intimidating.
(33:13):
And as we also talked about people who are the human
equivalent of bulldozers. I think another thing that we
can look at here is recognizing not just trusting ourselves to
be the person that we want to bein those moments, but also
recognizing who and what we are giving power to because we can
(33:39):
recognize all of the, you know, expertise and the professional
people in a room. And Lindy, like you were talking
about recognizing that there's alot of intelligent people here
in this room, but also remembering that we're here in
this space for a reason, too. We, we have a place in these
places. And I literally just had this
(34:00):
conversation with my best friendyesterday.
We were talking about being the friend to other people where,
you know, you help build their confidence and remind them of
who they are. And you deserve to be in these
spaces and to take up space in general because we're not going
to allow other people to determine what spaces you can
(34:23):
and cannot be a part of. And so, yeah, I, I could not
agree more with you, Laura, thatit is that trust that we
cultivate in ourselves to, you know, show up authentically and
to ask the questions that not only need to be said for
ourselves, but just feeling thatintuition in in the moment, too.
(34:44):
Because Lindy, your recognition of these questions that that
need to be asked in those spacesand clearly called to you an
important reminder for those those moments as well.
And also let's let's also remember one of the key
responsibilities of leaders is to be questioned.
(35:06):
Yes, yes. I believe that's so strongly I
Caitlin, that the idea of taking, being allowed to take up
space such a powerful. And, and it's something, you
know, back in my like women's studies courses back in, you
know, the 1800s when I took them, you know, we talked about
(35:27):
like the female body and, you know, and how like often
response to, to taking up space is like be as little as
possible, be as skinny as possible, be as weak as
possible, right? So I do think this idea of
taking up space has been a very radical one for years.
And Laura, or I'm, as we're talking about this, I, one of
(35:49):
the things I'm so grateful for was like, for the first time in
my life, I was able to immediately recognize what was
going on. Like to be like, this is shame.
This is me trying to come back out from my little hole, hidey
hole. This is me, you know, oh,
feeling like, oh, that was OK. And then this is me feeling
like, oh, that was really scary.So I was really grateful for
(36:11):
that recognition. But when you're working with
folks who are living this process, because I have a
feeling I'm not the only one whogoes through this cycle, not at
all. How?
Do you talk with them about taking?
Care of themselves afterwards orduring?
That's a great question. You know it, I think everyone it
has to be an intentional process.
(36:33):
It's not a one-size-fits-all situation by any means.
But I think the, the biggest thing is, is what you just said
is the awareness. Like even just acknowledging I'm
feeling blank, you know, I'm feeling shame, I'm feeling
scared, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling tired.
(36:56):
Like even just giving that spaceto exist because what do we,
what do we typically want to do?Get out of that discomfort as
quickly as humanly possible. And it rarely means actually
processing it. And it means putting it in a
nice little bag and like, drawstringing it tight, like
like strangling it and then shoving it underneath the bed
(37:20):
and hoping that it never comes back out.
Except eventually you have so many of those bags underneath
the bed that it comes spilling out, right?
Like it's going to come up and out eventually.
I promise you, and it's going tobe in a less less ideal way if
it chooses and you don't so. Acknowledging it. 1st And just
(37:41):
like it helps to create what I feel like is a separation that
you are not shame, you're just experiencing shame.
You are not fear, you're just experiencing fear.
And if we create just like a little tiny gap between US and
what that thing is, then we don't create an identity around
(38:01):
it. I'm not a shameful person.
I don't do shameful things. I'm just in moments where shame
likes to pop up. And so just.
Even having that little. Perspective of like, I'm
noticing that I'm feeling shame right now.
Literally, my body wants to do that.
Breathe. I just I just created a simple
(38:22):
breath and that creates just a little bit of a gap where I can
then just. Like pause with it.
I can sit with it. What do I need to what do I need
to feel right now? What do I feel right now?
And giving yourself permission to to express that.
Sometimes you need to cry. Sometimes you need to punch a
pillow. Sometimes you need to literally
(38:45):
step away in a conference and gointo the bathroom stall or back
to your hotel room for 20 minutes and just sit in silence.
So. If you acknowledge it then.
What do I need? What do I need in this moment?
And then giving yourself permission to do that, that I, I
swear to you that it changes something fundamentally inside
(39:07):
of us because we're no longer shoving it in the bag.
We're letting it breathe. And then it passes, right?
And it, and it, and it gives us the opportunity to think more
clearly, to get back into the moment, to get back into our
bodies because we've given it the time and the space to
actually exist. Laura I I.
Sincerely appreciate the way youdescribe this processing.
(39:32):
And I, I feel like this message is so important for, for so many
people because it covers so manydifferent experiences.
You know, of course, beyond shame, but you said something
that really reminded. Me of.
Specifically something I've seenin language and you're talking
(39:54):
about we are feeling shame, not our shame.
We're we're not a, a person to be ashamed of.
And in the Irish and Scottish Gaelic languages, the the way
you describe emotions is not I am sad.
You say I have sadness on me. So for example you would say
(40:20):
like Bronak Orem. Sadness is on me, not I I am the
emotion. And so this reflection in the
language of emotions passing over us rather than embodying us
is, I think, a wonderful reminder of that.
Emotions are temporary and they're not part of our
(40:42):
identity. They are a big part of what
makes us human. And going back to what we were
talking about initially, they also allow us to connect with
people, you know, having these very real conversations and
sharing these immense joys and shared vulnerability and all of
these experiences. And they're absolutely nothing
(41:05):
to be shameful about. But it's, it's bringing a light
to these, these experiences thatreally helped us to connect with
people. And yeah, I, I, I know we've
mentioned this before already, but it is, it is needed now more
than ever, I think. Yeah, it it's.
It's beautiful that, that that was a really beautiful thing
(41:27):
that you just shared because it just helps us to create some
distance between it instead of forming an identity around it
or, or making it mean something about us.
You know, like I what as we're talking about this, I, I can't
help but think of a, a conference story of my own.
Do we have time? Can I share with you?
(41:47):
Yes, if I don't have a heart. Out if you don't have a heart,
I'm I'm good so. I I just recently spoke at an HR
conference. HR Indiana.
Lovely event, fantastically put together. 10 out of 10
recommend. My slot was the last slot of the
day, which is not my favorite, but you know, somebody's got to
(42:08):
do it, OK? Usually by that time of the day,
a lot of people are checked out,they're tired, their information
overload. But I still had a really great
crowd leading up to that, though.
I'm I've got the whole day, OK. I like to get to an event the
day before because I just like to get in the space and grounded
and know what I'm doing. So I have all day long.
(42:29):
I'm like, what am I going to do,sit in my room all day?
I mean, I could go wander aroundIndianapolis, but I'm here.
My intent is to meet people and make connections.
So I'm going to just attend sessions.
I'm I'm going to go, I'm going to be in the conference, right?
And a lot of my speaker friends are like, don't, don't do that.
Don't attend the don't attend the other sessions.
(42:50):
And I'm like, oh, no, I, I feel OK with it.
Couple sessions in my brain starts to get kind of noisy.
Like these are really great speakers.
Am I in the right place? Did are they sure they wanted me
to be here? Gary Sinise was the keynote
speaker of the event. Who was the Lieutenant Dan from
(43:11):
Forrest Gump, for anybody that'snot familiar with his human
name. You know, there was the imposter
syndrome started knocking on my door and I started to feel
anxious, like anxiety was reallypresenting itself and I could
feel it. I usually feel it in my chest
and I could just feel it. My breast started to get kind of
shallow. I'm like second guessing things.
(43:34):
I'm like looking at things weirdly.
And I was like, holy shit, I I need to grab a hold of this.
And so I did what I just shared a couple of minutes ago.
I noticed that I'm feeling anxious.
My brain is starting to get noisy.
My chest is getting tight. I've got under boob sweat.
(43:55):
Like things are happening physically and emotionally.
What do I need right now? I need to separate myself from
this conference. Like I just need a little bit of
space. So there was a session before
mine. It was about that time and I was
like, I've got like an hour and a half before I go on.
(44:15):
What do I need right now? I need to go back to my room and
I need to take off my pants. Listen, you've ever had like,
you know, the buttons touching you the wrong way and you just
feel like confined in your in your, in your jeans and like
think you're it's just there's too many things touching me.
It's real. I'm like, I need to take my
(44:37):
fucking pants off and I need to be in a quiet room.
So that's what I did. I went back to my room.
It was the perfect cool temperature.
I took off my pants and I got inmy bed and I pulled all the
covers up on top of me. I just, I just needed to be like
hugged and still and pantsless. Yes, yes.
(44:57):
And after about I don't know. 15minutes of just just sitting
there, literally, I could feel my nervous system starting to
come down. I, I was doing some breath work.
I like to do some somatic work where I like roll my tongue and
make all kinds of weird sounds. That works tremendously well for
me. And all of a sudden I was like,
oh, I'm not anxious anymore. And I got out my iPad.
(45:19):
I went through my slides, I got myself prepped.
It's about 20 minutes before I go on.
And I was like, OK, I'm ready again.
I'm grounded. I've got my confidence back.
The anxiety is gone. I went down into my room.
I nailed the talk. I, I, I has such a great time.
There was a great crowd in the room even for 4:30 in the
(45:41):
afternoon and it turned out great.
It turned out great. And and I just wanted to share
that as a real life example of noticing that.
Feeling in the moment. Asking yourself what you need
and then giving yourself permission to actually do that
thing. I I realize you can't always go
back to a room and take your pants off, but you know what?
You could probably take 3 minutes and go step outside and
(46:04):
get some sunshine. You could go sit in a bathroom
stall for 5 minutes and do some breath work.
You could, you could talk to somebody about what's going on
that might be able to help you talk it out and talk it through
so it it's not getting re regulated and, and and getting
back into your body doesn't always have to be this like day
(46:26):
long, week long month long event.
It's really in these little micro moments what you decide to
allow yourself to actually do. Oh, and I did put my pants back
on just in case. Anybody.
I mean, I guess they probably begrateful that could be a.
Gutsy presentation of its own. Listen.
(46:46):
Definitely. Listen, we're we're, we're not
against. It we're not against it.
Thank you so much Laura. Or like the what a powerful
example of this radical process of listening to what you need
and then doing it immediately. Like what a radical concept.
I think especially for women, especially for folks who haven't
(47:10):
been given the permission by society to take care of
themselves. And even the burnout book that
we referenced a lot here by the Nagasti twins, they talk about
emotions have to go through the beginning, middle and end.
And So what you did was you let the emotions, by going into your
body, asking it what it needs and then honoring it, you
(47:31):
allowed the emotion to work its way all the way through so that
it wasn't still living in your body.
It worked its way out. So you just gave a great example
of, like, this is how you manageburnout and keep it from
becoming chronic. Yeah.
But also this is how you. Attend to your needs as a human
too, right? Like we can talk about the
science, but we also need to talk about I personally can't
(47:55):
afford to not meet my needs as ahuman anymore.
And that I think the moment thatI'm in right now, I will share
that feels pretty radical because it's a little scary.
I, it's almost like a road that like, oh, if I go down this
road, where does that lead me? I already went down scary roads.
I don't want to do that anymore,right?
(48:16):
But I think the looking in and you can find that your needs are
maybe bigger than you think or that you might need to meet
needs that are bigger than you want to meet in the moment.
But I think the going in is suchan important part of of being
human right now. Yeah.
I mean, it's it's the. Listening.
(48:36):
It's being willing to slow down long enough to even ask yourself
the question, I mean. Again, what do we want to do?
We want. To work through it as quickly as
possible because it's uncomfortable.
What would have happened had I not honored that?
I mean, I don't really know because I didn't go down that
path, but I could imagine that the anxiety would have built.
(48:56):
I would have. Been wearing a.
Red turtleneck. Not because I was wearing a red
turtleneck, but because the redness of my chest would have
came up into my neck. I would have felt uncentered.
I would have felt ungrounded. I would have felt off my my
game. I wouldn't have been as
confident in my message. It probably wouldn't have landed
the way that I intend or hope that it would.
(49:19):
And the people in the. Audience that really needed.
To hear something that I was able to like, go deep on
wouldn't have received that message.
I can imagine that might have been an outcome.
So. You know, if you think about.
Like, what's the alternative? Start asking yourself that.
What's the alternative here? I'm going to keep stacking it up
(49:40):
or I'm going to lean into this, this, this uncomfortable moment
to support myself right now. If you don't support yourself,
who's going to do it? Nobody.
And we end up burnout. We end up tired, we end up
exhausted, we end up unfulfilledand we end up doing more shit
that we don't want to do. I got to go and.
Like think about this. For a bit because it's so
(50:01):
powerful. And and just.
Thank you. I appreciate first of all, you
sharing all of this and letting me sit on your green couch for a
minute, but also the time that you've given us.
I know we've kept you a little bit late and I know your time is
extremely valuable. So I'm I'm just so.
Grateful. Happy to do it, Happy to be.
(50:21):
Here someone, dare I say maybe you needed to really hear this
today. So I'm I'm happy to do it.
So, so many important. Messages We are incredibly
grateful to have you here in theburnout break room, Laura Aura
and this conversation has been so incredibly fulfilling.
(50:42):
And as a reminder, I know we've talked about it in previous
episodes, but the the fundamental concept also that
having needs does not make you high maintenance.
You are allowed to have needs and listen to those and act on
them. Truth I fully.
(51:04):
Support that so. Laura Ora, when you are not in
the burnout break room, where can you?
Where can we find you? Where can people access you?
Yeah, Laura, Aura dot. Com is probably the best place
to find all things me the gutsy podcast.
Of course, if you if you like this tone, if you like this
(51:26):
style you like this depth the gutsy podcast is a great next
step. It's on all the platforms and
then on social media. My handle is at that Laura aura.
I put out a shit ton of content all the time.
So I'm making TikTok videos thatgo over into reels.
So if you want a little daily dose of this kind of energy and
and gutsy moves forward, then those are a great place to find
(51:49):
it wonderful. Thank you, Laura, Ora and and
Caitlin, when you're not in the Burn Outbreak room, where can we
find you? People can find me at.
Caitlin True, hella.com as well as my socials from LinkedIn to
Instagram to TikTok, where we have fun and talk about
(52:13):
creativity and how I can supportyou as an artist.
Whether it's ideation sessions for a project that you're
working on or your entrepreneurial ideas and ways
that you can bring your fullest self to your work.
And you can send me a message onInstagram or or Tiktok.
(52:33):
Lindy, when you're not in the burnout break room, where can
people find you? Yeah, so Lindy Larimore dot.
Com is the best place to find meto learn more about what ioffer
as a coach and consultant. You can also find me on
Instagram or at Lindy Larimore on LinkedIn.
Same reach out, drop yourself into my calendar, ask me
(52:56):
whatever you'd like to ask me. I I and also please visit our
our burnout break room sites on Instagram, Facebook and Tiktok.
Caitlin, you're, you're all things for an outbreak room.
Please. Let us know what you think of.
Our episodes share with friends comments.
(53:19):
We'd love to hear your thoughts and requests.
Thank you so much, Laura Ora, it's been such a pleasure.
Thanks so much for taking the time.
Of course, thanks so much for having.
Me.
Welcome back to The Burnout Break Room, the podcast that's
like a break room but helpful, where we look at burnout through
a realistic lens, talk about ways to take a break from the
grind and spill the tea. I'm Caitlin Trujillo, creativity
coach and speaker. And I'm Lindy Larimore, licensed
therapist and certified career coach.
(00:26):
We're your hosts and thank you for joining us here in the
Burnout Break Room. This episode is brought to you
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next purchase today and live life at your volume.
Lean into everything you love that's loud with bold noise
reducing ear wear. Thank you loop.
How you doing Lindy? I am good, Caitlin.
I'm a little tired, not going tolie.
I first of all, it's very drearyhere on the East Coast.
(01:30):
Lots of actually really needed rain.
We've enjoyed the most beautifulAugust I, I have ever
experienced. It was like beautiful blue skies
for like all of August, most of September.
But of course we needed the rain.
So it's it's good that it's here.
I'm just coming back from a conference, a psychology
(01:52):
conference at Boston College, and my brain feels like mush, so
I apologize in advance if I don't make sense.
How about you, Caitlin? Well, first of all, the no, no
apology needed because every, every time that we can show up,
(02:14):
even if it's not at 100%, we arestill moving forward.
And that's, that's still honoring our energy levels,
which of course is not only important here in the break
room, but everywhere, everywherewe go.
So I think that's always great to reinforce that message.
I am I am definitely living thatmessage today as well post move
(02:42):
myself. I'm officially in Los Angeles
and yeah, I'm I'm sore in placesthat I didn't know I had.
But even I I think the other side of that too is recognizing
and even, you know, taking time to sit with that sense of
(03:04):
accomplishment that we get from what we do that, you know, has
made us tired essentially because there there is a lot of
satisfaction to be had in good work, a job well done.
I am taking this as an opportunity to spend more time
in that appreciation rather thanjust, you know, accomplish this
(03:30):
thing. Great.
What's next? Moving on to the next thing,
which I have a very bad habit ofdoing.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
No. It's not at least.
Me at all. Right.
No, but I'm, I'm also very happyto hear that you had a great
time at the conference and I hope we get to hear a little bit
(03:53):
more about that too. Absolutely.
So today we have the absolute joy of having Laura Ora on the
podcast. Laura Ora is a dynamic keynote
speaker, personal growth coach, and host of The Gutsy Podcast, a
top 100 show helping people own their desires and take gutsy
(04:15):
action. With over 18 years as a business
owner and a decade of speaking experience, she's helped
countless individuals and teams breakthrough hesitation and move
boldly toward what they want. Laura, welcome to the Break
room. It's so wonderful to have you.
It's so great to be here, thanksfor having me.
I will say, Laura Aura, I just got done listening to a couple
(04:39):
of fabulous episodes of the Gutsy Podcast.
I highly recommend that folks listen to this one in
particular. Power Back 254.
Everyone, please go listen to this right now.
It's a little over 20 minutes. Where are you conforming to fit
in Laura or I? I want to hear more about your
(05:01):
story and what kind of bring brought you to the the gutsy
podcast. But I just want to say, like,
what a powerful message you're putting out into the world.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing it.
You know, it, it's, it's kind ofcool.
I'm hearing more often than not,I'm like, where did you, where
did you learn about the gutsy podcast?
(05:23):
And so many women are like, my therapist recommended it And,
and I, I just, I take that to the highest honor.
I, I hold that very dear to my heart, because if, if the
fantastic work that you are doing is being supported by the
message that I'm putting out, I,I think that's a win win all
around. So thank you for listening.
And for sharing. Absolutely.
(05:45):
And, and Laura or I want to talkabout that podcast specifically
actually, but also I'd love to hear more about you and like
what brought you to this work. Yeah, it's, it's been a wild
journey, I will say that for sure.
I'll give you the Cliff Notes version.
So Long story short, I've been abusiness owner for 18 years.
It's, it's been a minute and a half.
(06:06):
I did not start out as a speakeror a coach.
I actually started out in graphic design.
So my background, my history is in graphic design.
My very first job was working atthe phone book designing ads for
the Yellow Pages. So you can imagine it was just
as exciting as it sounds. I, I knew that I wanted to do
design, but I did not want to continue to do it there.
(06:28):
So when I was 6 1/2 months pregnant, I quit that job to
start my first business, which was a branding agency.
So that was one of my first early gutsy moves that I can put
a pin in. People thought I was crazy, you
know? What about your stability?
What about this? What about that?
And I'm like, yeah, but I'm miserable.
I'm limited. I feel unappreciated.
(06:50):
And I have a whole lot more to give.
So I figured out how to launch abusiness, and I did that.
So I ran that agency for 16 years.
But alongside running the agency, I found myself in these
like, really beautiful pockets of information, pockets of
conversation, almost like being in a break room, right?
(07:11):
An unintentional breakout break room where we were working with
entrepreneurs. And I found that, like, we would
have like, the normal meeting, right?
The talk about the branding and the website and all the
beautiful things that we were creating together.
But then after that meeting, theowner would often pull me to the
side and be like, Laura, do you have a second?
And in that space, they wanted to talk about the stuff that
(07:32):
terrified them that they couldn't share with anybody
else. The big idea that they had that
everyone else in the world was questioning to death, how are
they going to do this? The, the shift that they wanted
to make that felt risky or gutsythat, you know, everyone else
was, was questioning. And I just found in that space,
I'm like, I feel alive in these conversations.
(07:55):
I love the depth. I love the real, I run towards
vulnerability instead of away from it.
And when they left those meetings, they knew what to do
next or they just felt like theycould do it.
You know, they didn't need permission, but they needed to
hear permission. So I figured if they're feeling
like that, and I know I feel like that, maybe other
(08:18):
entrepreneurs feel like that too.
And I figured I was like, I wantto start interviewing them, like
actually putting these stories out into the world.
So elevenish years ago, I launched at the time what was
called the Green Couch Project, where it was a whole production.
These entrepreneurs came in and we had these vulnerable
conversations and shared it out with the world.
Turns out not just a few people feel the same way.
(08:40):
Every entrepreneur has some, some relatability to one of
these stories or all of them. So it, it grew, I wanted to do
more of it, but the cost of the production, all that was just
too much. So I'm like, OK, well, how can I
do more of this and lower my cost?
I'll figure out how to launch a podcast.
So I bought a $25 headset off ofAmazon.
(09:02):
I figured out how to use garage Band and I changed the gut the
green couch project into the gutsy podcast.
And that was seven years ago nowat this point, you know, and
alongside that, I started to speak, I started to go to like
Chamber of Commerce and lunch and learns and companies were
having me come in and talk to their teams.
And, you know, I, I just thoughtI would do branding forever.
(09:24):
And I loved it until I didn't. You know, COVID changed a lot of
things. There was a lot to face with
realizing that I had unintentionally built my
business off the backbone of my insecurities.
I, I, everything looked fantastic on paper, but I was
miserable and literally sick every single day.
And I just got to a point like I, I got to make a decision.
(09:45):
What do I, what do I want? What do I actually want?
And so my passion for branding started to diffuse and my
passion for speaking and and coaching women and and leaders
increased. And I got to a point where I had
a breakdown, an actual ugly ass breakdown.
But I admitted to myself for thefirst time ever that I don't
(10:07):
want to do this anymore. So I did that in July of 23.
By December, it was sold. Two months later, I sold the
commercial building that we had fully intended on building out.
I got rid of everything that didn't belong anymore.
Everything that was out of alignment had to go and now I'm
I'm full time. I'm all in on speaking and
coaching and I've never been happier.
(10:29):
I'm getting chills, Caitlin. I mean, how much does this align
with like the conversation? We were just like, it's it's
weird. The universe always knows when
we're supposed to talk. Certainly, absolutely, Laura,
the alignment is just off the charts and it's unbelievable.
(10:49):
And, and thank you so much for for sharing your story because
as an entrepreneur myself, I could not align more with, with
what you're saying, especially in these spaces where we want to
build something and we have different ways of wanting to go
about that. But there's so many different
voices out there that talk aboutthe prescribed way that we, we
(11:14):
can do these things. The, you know, the, the tried
and true method. And if you just use my formula,
then this will work for you as well.
And all of these things look great on paper, but then the
reality of those things is not making you happy and is not
serving you. And it takes an incredible
(11:35):
amount of guts to to use the namesake of your podcast.
Yeah, it it takes a lot of guts to to forge your own path, to do
it your own way. And what a lot of people don't
know or see what happens behind the scenes is even people in
your most immediate circles can either have doubts about what
(11:58):
you're doing or maybe don't understand it.
And it can also make this kind of journey very lonely.
For sure. Listen, that whole if you just
do this, if you here's what I did and if you just replicate my
8 steps, then you'll have the same success.
And it's like, Oh my gosh, I want to beat my head off against
the wall. It's not to say that there
(12:20):
aren't pieces in there that can work for you.
I mean, clearly it has worked for someone in some way, but I
think the biggest part about that is, is having the
discernment to know what works for you, what feels good and
where can I be influenced? Where can I be inspired by this?
And then how can I make that my own?
(12:41):
I, I, I've gotten, I've gotten wrapped up in that so many
times. And it's like, it has to feel
good to you. It has to make sense to you
because otherwise you're replicating somebody else's
success on a journey that's completely different than yours.
And and then what are you left with?
Your you feel like you wasted money, you wasted time.
(13:02):
This didn't actually work. What's wrong with me?
And it triggers this whole spiral of, you know, mental
doubt upon yourself. And it's like be be inspired by
what somebody else is doing and showing you.
Take the pieces, but mold it into your own.
Laura or the the the piece that felt so chilling to me was you
(13:23):
call this out actually, because Caitlin and I often have like
really fabulous, like open up toeach other conversations and
then we press record, you know, and yeah, I'm not going to share
everything about my life with everyone, you know, with the
whole world. And so sometimes we just need to
catch up as like humans. But in this particular
conversation, what we were talking about was my experience
(13:47):
at the this this conference thatI went to that I will tell you
chewed me up and spat me out about 85 times and in four days.
And for so many different reasons, which I I do want to
unpack a little bit if that's OK, but of.
Course. What Kaylin and I were talking
about was there were the conversations that were
(14:09):
happening in these sessions thatwere literally with a microphone
in your hand being recorded. You know, you can go listen to
them now. And so those, that's where
everyone was like having the very intellectual, you know,
these were pH DS and psychoanalysts, which is a whole
mood. Let me tell you, I've never been
so grateful not to have a doctorate in my life.
(14:32):
And then they were cutting the conversations we were having off
to the side. And I was struck by just how
intimate and vulnerable these conversations were in a way that
I've never experienced before inmy life.
In a way that made me question, am I oversharing, right?
(14:53):
Because I would share something about my life and then they
would match that energy and share a vulnerability.
And it felt so powerful and it felt like so needed in the
moment that we're in, but so vulnerable that it made me
question like, what did I do something wrong, right?
(15:14):
Like it was immediately followedby that shame that we all know
happens after being vulnerable that that I need to retreat,
right? But what struck me was I got the
sense and I that there's something happening under the
surface in the world right now where people are it.
I almost got the sense like we need to access intimacy and love
(15:38):
and compassion and connection. And it's not happening up here,
right? And by up here, I know this is
we're on a podcast. I'm pointing to like the kind of
prefrontal cortex, let's have big ideas.
Let's think together. It's the let's feel together and
let's be open and raw with each other in a way that's respectful
and not taking advantage. And so when you talked about the
(16:02):
Green Couch project and your gutsy podcast, it almost felt
like were you like listening to our conversation.
So I'm curious to know like whatwhat your experience has been
with bringing those intimate conversations to the to the
foreground? Yeah, you know, that
vulnerability hangover is real when you're like, Oh my gosh,
(16:25):
was that too much? I mean, the good thing about
recording the podcast is I can record it and sit with it before
it goes out into the world. So, you know, there, there have
been some episodes like that forsure.
One of the top downloaded episodes, by the way, is my
story about bankruptcy. So, you know, it just it just it
just shows you that when you talk about the real stuff, the
(16:49):
hard stuff, the human stuff, there are other people.
I mean, there are hundreds, if not thousands of people that
have listened to that episode that I will never know.
But something about it impacted them or it gave them permission
or it or it reminded them that, you know, they're not, they're
not bad with money or things. Didn't you know they're going to
(17:10):
screw up because they went through this too?
Or if they're getting ready to face it, maybe it gave them some
information about it. But you know, these, these
conversations, they, they just humanize, you know, to your
point about we, we just want to feel we live in a very curated
society. I just want what's real, you
(17:31):
know, don't get me wrong, I lovea good aesthetic.
I, I like my stuff to look nice too.
But at the end of the day, if wejust pull back a couple of
layers and we create a space where people feel comfortable to
share or feel a little bit more bold to want to speak up or talk
about it, the unity that happensin those spaces is immeasurable,
(17:55):
right? They, they feel, they feel safe.
They feel hurt like it with the women that I coach, they're
like, I don't have anybody else that I can talk to about this
stuff. You know, everybody in my world,
everyone comes to me. Who do I go to?
And so just creating the space and having these vulnerable
conversations is an invitation to talk about the hard stuff, to
(18:20):
talk about the big stuff. It's not always the bad stuff
either. Sometimes it is the crazy idea
or the next step in your life, or I'm ready to level up.
Or, you know, I work with a lot of women that are looking to
transition out of careers and into entrepreneurialism.
That's a big shift. That's a really big shift.
Who do you talk to about that? I'll raise my hand in that
(18:42):
situation, but you know what I mean?
So these vulnerable conversations, you know, you
don't have to share anything that you're not ready to.
I also like to put that out there.
Sometimes people are like, you know, I, I, I'm going to have to
go there. I'm going to have to talk about
it. It's like you can talk about it
when you're ready, but I'm goingto continue to hold the
container to let you know that when you're ready, the space is
(19:04):
open. So powerful and so needed.
And I, I want to transition to the, to speak specifically about
the podcast that you recorded about conformity and to share
in, in light of what we're talking about.
Like I came to this podcast feeling very strongly that I
(19:25):
wanted to talk about this. And then when I heard your
episode on conformity, I, I, I felt like, OK, I want to talk to
Laura Ora about this. I want your take on it.
So I had a profound insight intomy own burnout process.
I guess I'm on the green couch now.
I'm just going to call that out.Let's do it.
(19:46):
I still have that green couch bythe way, it's in my office.
That's great. That's it sounds like a cool
couch. So I am a therapist.
I'm a master's level therapist, which means I don't have my
doctorate, and I'm typically really fine with that and
actually feel strongly that that's kind of important to have
access to like master's level versus.
(20:08):
Dedicating 8 years to 10 years of your life.
So I went to this conference in person for the first time.
This is at Boston College, whichis a pretty like demanding
academic space. And they have wonderful programs
for counseling and psychology. And I got a room.
I was like so proud of myself assomeone with ADHDI was like I
(20:29):
did the thing I adulted, I did the thing I had signed up for
this conference months early. I got the early bird rate or, or
I think you shared you have ADHD.
You might understand how like intensely amazing that is.
I. I listen, I'm clapping because
like the intention is there and you're like, Oh yeah, I'm gonna
do that. And then like 3 weeks go by and
(20:50):
you're like shit. Yeah.
I, I, I I did and created 40 things in between the time that
I saw that thing and the time that I actually got the thing.
So kudos to you, my friend. Yes, this is a big deal.
I was so proud of myself the night before.
It's like 1:00 in the morning because I had these other, these
other like professional obligations.
(21:10):
I had to go to a meeting, go to a rehearsal, throw a party, and
then get ready for this conference the night before.
So it's 1:00 AM. I have the sinking feeling
remembering that the sessions I was planning on going to the
next day were like breakout sessions from the actual event.
I was like, did I sign up for these sessions?
(21:31):
And so I was pouring through emails from May and I'm like, I
don't know if I did, and I have no way of knowing.
There was nothing that I could go to and be like, you've signed
up for this and you've signed upfor that.
So I'm like, all right, I got toput my big lady pants on and
walk into that room and say, I have no idea if I signed up for
these sessions. Can you help me out?
So I did and I happened to, and I've never been on this campus
(21:55):
before. Well, not in these spaces.
So I'm already 15 minutes late because this is just how I
operate. But also my GPS took me to like
the wrong place first. It was just one of those days,
right? I walk in, I'm like, I don't
think I've signed up of these sessions, but can you let me
know what, can you look me up? And they're like, no, you
didn't, but they were lovely. They're like, just go ahead
(22:16):
anyway, We'll take care of it. Which was so wonderful.
They were so understanding. So I walk into a room full of
highly academic, highly intelligent, very learned pH DS
and every single one of them were saying so after doing all
the reading, I, you know, like, that's how they started all of
(22:36):
their sentences. So you know that dream, Caitlin,
you're laughing. You can probably tell me what
this dream is where you're you're showing up to a class
during finals week that you've never been to before and haven't
done any of the readings for. I was living that dream and I
immediately clocked I am filled with shame right now.
(23:00):
I am filled with shame. And all I wanted to do was hide
and I wanted to like sink into this chair.
I wanted to make sure nobody sawme.
And then we had to do like the introductions and I decided I'm
just going to share that I'm having that dream right now.
Everyone relates to this and andI did and I got a laugh and I
was like, I haven't done any readings.
I'm so sorry. I'm so excited for this
conversation and I'm so sorry that I didn't come prepared.
(23:23):
And then a few, you know, an hour in, I asked the question
that I thought was probably something everyone else was
thinking, which was simply like,these are really amazing
concepts that are really needed in the field of psychology, but,
you know, in community mental health where folks can't afford
to be here. Basically.
I was not this articulate, let me tell you, because I was
(23:46):
filled with shame and couldn't form sentences.
And the whole room kind of turned around with this.
The, the, I don't know what thisbook is, but it's like, oh,
something controversial is happening right now.
And everyone started to use the word critique, like, oh, this
critique that you just brought up.
And I suddenly felt like I didn't, that's not what I meant.
(24:08):
I wasn't, I didn't mean to critique.
So again, filled with shame, right?
And when I wanted to hide and I wanted to sink into my chair,
but now everyone was looking at me And so I had to like crawl
back out. So what I, so this happened
throughout the entire four days there.
And it was this cycle of either do something that fills me with
(24:31):
shame or share something that fills me with shame, the need to
hide, but then choosing to kind of peek my head back out and
then being met with this really lovely.
Like what I should say too is after after all the people were
like, you know, you're a critique of blah, blah, blah.
People would come up to after upto me afterwards and say, I'm
really glad that you asked that question.
It really needed to be asked. Yeah.
(24:52):
So that was my experience over and over again.
And it gave me this profound insight into This is why I was
burned out before, because I wasasking the questions that I
thought everyone else was thinking, but actually turned
out to be maybe received as really critical of the system.
And some people felt appropriately threatened.
I understand. And some people were really glad
(25:14):
that they asked. That was my experience in the
professional world. It landed me in the hospital
briefly. So anyway, that was my green
couch moment and Laura Ora, I would love to hear like your
thoughts on all of it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, Help, help,
help. It's a, it's a profound story.
(25:37):
And, and I'm, and I'm glad that you're sharing it here because
again, somebody is going to listen or is listening right
now. And it's like, Oh my gosh, I've
been in that same position. I, I want to, I, I want to give
you a couple of perspectives, ifthat's OK Yes.
So the first thing that I wantedto reflect back to you is how
(25:58):
incredibly courageous, how much gutsy you displayed in every
part of that story. The running late.
A lot of people would be like, I'm late.
I'm not going to show up now. I'm going to feel ridiculous.
I'm going home. The realization that you're not
(26:19):
signed up for any of those classes or the seminars.
Oh, I'm not signed up for anything.
I don't want to walk in that room and be that person.
I'm going home sitting around the table bringing up questions
that you think that people want to hear but you're not sure but
you're curious about. Most people would just keep
their hands down. That was gutsy, right?
(26:39):
I mean, there's like 5 or 6 other pieces of this where you
chose to make a gutsy move. So I just want to call you out
for that in the best of ways. Because sometimes in those shame
cycles or in those areas where you're feeling very, very
exposed, nothing looks like you're being gutsy or brave.
It just simply looks like I'm just, I'm a hot mess express and
(27:04):
now I've caused a ripple effect.So kudos to you for all of those
things. The other thing that really,
really stands out to me is 1. If we don't ask the questions
and we don't question these things, whatever it is, it
continues. Growth doesn't happen, evolution
doesn't happen, innovation stopshappening.
(27:25):
Everyone should always be questioning everything if it's
not feeling right or if there's an alternative way or there's a
new idea to, to grow or expand something and you have that
within you. I, I kind of feel like it's our
responsibility individually to bring that up.
And it takes an immense amount of gutsy to raise your hand,
(27:48):
whether it's in a conference room or a seminar or a
conference or in a one-on-one conversation.
It's, it takes a lot of guts to,to raise your hand and either
suggest something or to questionsomething.
But without it, innovation dies.The other huge thing that comes
out to me when you tell me this story is exactly where the
(28:11):
freaking Green Couch Project wasborn.
It's in those side conversationswhere the real shit's actually
happening. Because I will bet that the
majority of the people in that room probably agreed with you to
some degree. Or it it got them thinking in a
new way. Or it made them say like, oh, I
(28:31):
hadn't thought about it that way.
There was probably a few key players that had big energy.
I'm going to guess, oh, yeah, big energies, maybe some big
egos, maybe the way that they carry themselves.
Maybe it's the letters after their name.
It could be a myriad of things. And I'm not saying any of those
(28:53):
things are wrong. I'm just saying that sometimes
people have more dominant personalities that take over a
room that makes everyone else shrink.
So it probably felt like you were in a, in a spotlight of
like, oh shit, what have I done?But really, there were probably
just a few key players that werereally pushing back at you.
But I'm going to guess the majority of that room was like,
(29:14):
thank you, thank you. Because this is the shit that's
actually happening. So the shame is real.
I I hear you. But I hope that some of that has
maybe started to turn a different part of the Rubik's
Cube in your brain to make you say, OK, maybe this was actually
innovation. I show up for myself.
(29:36):
That's one. I showed up for other people and
I questioned things in the name of progressiveness, in the name
of making things better. So that's my story, and I'm
sticking to it. How does that land?
Oh, Laura, I mean, it's so powerful and so right.
And I'm thinking about, you know, just our listeners and,
(29:57):
and you, you bring up something that I'd never thought about
before and even in the context of that experience, but in
professional experiences or personal experiences, the big
energies in the room and how, I mean, I'd love to just hear you
speak more about that and like, you know, stories that you've
heard about how that has those energies have silenced or
(30:20):
stopped progression or stopped evolution.
Yeah. Because I feel like that's
that's really important to talk about.
Yeah. I mean, I think it happens a lot
in a lot of spaces, whether it'sat, you know, a networking group
or a meeting or a conference room meeting or a client meeting
or, you know, if you're at a bigevent, whatever.
(30:41):
I think it happens in a ton of rooms.
I think it happens with all genders.
I don't think it's mutually exclusive, but think about how
many women stay quiet when a quote UN quote dominant male is
in the room. That lots of hot head nods here
when you know, he or she is further along than me.
(31:01):
They're higher up in the company.
They're they're AC level type ofperson.
They're in charge of something. There's just this perception
that just because someone is quote UN quote like ahead or
above me, that I don't have the ability to question something or
to push back or to suggest something new.
And, and I can understand that that energy is very real, but
(31:25):
it's also perception and it, what we allow will continue.
And so if we don't push back, ifwe don't challenge, if we don't
present new ideas, then guess what?
Everyone in the room is, is having that same experience.
Whereas if one person raises their hand and asks that
question, to your point, you raised your hand and said, hey,
(31:46):
what about this? You unknowingly gave the people
in that room permission that they didn't need but needed to
see displayed to know that, hey,we can be in a room with very
high level educated people and still ask questions.
That their title, that their presence, that the way that
they're dressed doesn't mean that they're better than me or
(32:09):
further along than me. We're having a shared human
experience here. And it's it's a personal
decision. I don't there's no magic formula
back to Caitlin, the early on inthe conversation.
There's there's no three-step process that I can give you here
to. If you just do this, then you
can then you can handle all the high level people in your life.
But it's really like, what am I,what am I feeling?
(32:30):
And it comes back to trusting yourself, trusting yourself in
those moments of like, I have something to say.
I'm really feeling strongly about this.
And if I don't say it, what is the cost of that?
If we start to shift our our energy and our perspective to
that, instead of what's going tohappen if I do, things are going
to continue to evolve, but in a way better way.
(32:52):
Laura, I, I just want to say first of all, to, to call out
what you're talking about in terms of self trust.
And especially like, as we talk about this, this experience that
that you shared, Lindy of, you know, going into these very
professional spaces that can be very intimidating.
(33:13):
And as we also talked about people who are the human
equivalent of bulldozers. I think another thing that we
can look at here is recognizing not just trusting ourselves to
be the person that we want to bein those moments, but also
recognizing who and what we are giving power to because we can
(33:39):
recognize all of the, you know, expertise and the professional
people in a room. And Lindy, like you were talking
about recognizing that there's alot of intelligent people here
in this room, but also remembering that we're here in
this space for a reason, too. We, we have a place in these
places. And I literally just had this
(34:00):
conversation with my best friendyesterday.
We were talking about being the friend to other people where,
you know, you help build their confidence and remind them of
who they are. And you deserve to be in these
spaces and to take up space in general because we're not going
to allow other people to determine what spaces you can
(34:23):
and cannot be a part of. And so, yeah, I, I could not
agree more with you, Laura, thatit is that trust that we
cultivate in ourselves to, you know, show up authentically and
to ask the questions that not only need to be said for
ourselves, but just feeling thatintuition in in the moment, too.
(34:44):
Because Lindy, your recognition of these questions that that
need to be asked in those spacesand clearly called to you an
important reminder for those those moments as well.
And also let's let's also remember one of the key
responsibilities of leaders is to be questioned.
(35:06):
Yes, yes. I believe that's so strongly I
Caitlin, that the idea of taking, being allowed to take up
space such a powerful. And, and it's something, you
know, back in my like women's studies courses back in, you
know, the 1800s when I took them, you know, we talked about
(35:27):
like the female body and, you know, and how like often
response to, to taking up space is like be as little as
possible, be as skinny as possible, be as weak as
possible, right? So I do think this idea of
taking up space has been a very radical one for years.
And Laura, or I'm, as we're talking about this, I, one of
(35:49):
the things I'm so grateful for was like, for the first time in
my life, I was able to immediately recognize what was
going on. Like to be like, this is shame.
This is me trying to come back out from my little hole, hidey
hole. This is me, you know, oh,
feeling like, oh, that was OK. And then this is me feeling
like, oh, that was really scary.So I was really grateful for
(36:11):
that recognition. But when you're working with
folks who are living this process, because I have a
feeling I'm not the only one whogoes through this cycle, not at
all. How?
Do you talk with them about taking?
Care of themselves afterwards orduring?
That's a great question. You know it, I think everyone it
has to be an intentional process.
(36:33):
It's not a one-size-fits-all situation by any means.
But I think the, the biggest thing is, is what you just said
is the awareness. Like even just acknowledging I'm
feeling blank, you know, I'm feeling shame, I'm feeling
scared, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling tired.
(36:56):
Like even just giving that spaceto exist because what do we,
what do we typically want to do?Get out of that discomfort as
quickly as humanly possible. And it rarely means actually
processing it. And it means putting it in a
nice little bag and like, drawstringing it tight, like
like strangling it and then shoving it underneath the bed
(37:20):
and hoping that it never comes back out.
Except eventually you have so many of those bags underneath
the bed that it comes spilling out, right?
Like it's going to come up and out eventually.
I promise you, and it's going tobe in a less less ideal way if
it chooses and you don't so. Acknowledging it. 1st And just
(37:41):
like it helps to create what I feel like is a separation that
you are not shame, you're just experiencing shame.
You are not fear, you're just experiencing fear.
And if we create just like a little tiny gap between US and
what that thing is, then we don't create an identity around
(38:01):
it. I'm not a shameful person.
I don't do shameful things. I'm just in moments where shame
likes to pop up. And so just.
Even having that little. Perspective of like, I'm
noticing that I'm feeling shame right now.
Literally, my body wants to do that.
Breathe. I just I just created a simple
(38:22):
breath and that creates just a little bit of a gap where I can
then just. Like pause with it.
I can sit with it. What do I need to what do I need
to feel right now? What do I feel right now?
And giving yourself permission to to express that.
Sometimes you need to cry. Sometimes you need to punch a
pillow. Sometimes you need to literally
(38:45):
step away in a conference and gointo the bathroom stall or back
to your hotel room for 20 minutes and just sit in silence.
So. If you acknowledge it then.
What do I need? What do I need in this moment?
And then giving yourself permission to do that, that I, I
swear to you that it changes something fundamentally inside
(39:07):
of us because we're no longer shoving it in the bag.
We're letting it breathe. And then it passes, right?
And it, and it, and it gives us the opportunity to think more
clearly, to get back into the moment, to get back into our
bodies because we've given it the time and the space to
actually exist. Laura I I.
Sincerely appreciate the way youdescribe this processing.
(39:32):
And I, I feel like this message is so important for, for so many
people because it covers so manydifferent experiences.
You know, of course, beyond shame, but you said something
that really reminded. Me of.
Specifically something I've seenin language and you're talking
(39:54):
about we are feeling shame, not our shame.
We're we're not a, a person to be ashamed of.
And in the Irish and Scottish Gaelic languages, the the way
you describe emotions is not I am sad.
You say I have sadness on me. So for example you would say
(40:20):
like Bronak Orem. Sadness is on me, not I I am the
emotion. And so this reflection in the
language of emotions passing over us rather than embodying us
is, I think, a wonderful reminder of that.
Emotions are temporary and they're not part of our
(40:42):
identity. They are a big part of what
makes us human. And going back to what we were
talking about initially, they also allow us to connect with
people, you know, having these very real conversations and
sharing these immense joys and shared vulnerability and all of
these experiences. And they're absolutely nothing
(41:05):
to be shameful about. But it's, it's bringing a light
to these, these experiences thatreally helped us to connect with
people. And yeah, I, I, I know we've
mentioned this before already, but it is, it is needed now more
than ever, I think. Yeah, it it's.
It's beautiful that, that that was a really beautiful thing
(41:27):
that you just shared because it just helps us to create some
distance between it instead of forming an identity around it
or, or making it mean something about us.
You know, like I what as we're talking about this, I, I can't
help but think of a, a conference story of my own.
Do we have time? Can I share with you?
(41:47):
Yes, if I don't have a heart. Out if you don't have a heart,
I'm I'm good so. I I just recently spoke at an HR
conference. HR Indiana.
Lovely event, fantastically put together. 10 out of 10
recommend. My slot was the last slot of the
day, which is not my favorite, but you know, somebody's got to
(42:08):
do it, OK? Usually by that time of the day,
a lot of people are checked out,they're tired, their information
overload. But I still had a really great
crowd leading up to that, though.
I'm I've got the whole day, OK. I like to get to an event the
day before because I just like to get in the space and grounded
and know what I'm doing. So I have all day long.
(42:29):
I'm like, what am I going to do,sit in my room all day?
I mean, I could go wander aroundIndianapolis, but I'm here.
My intent is to meet people and make connections.
So I'm going to just attend sessions.
I'm I'm going to go, I'm going to be in the conference, right?
And a lot of my speaker friends are like, don't, don't do that.
Don't attend the don't attend the other sessions.
(42:50):
And I'm like, oh, no, I, I feel OK with it.
Couple sessions in my brain starts to get kind of noisy.
Like these are really great speakers.
Am I in the right place? Did are they sure they wanted me
to be here? Gary Sinise was the keynote
speaker of the event. Who was the Lieutenant Dan from
(43:11):
Forrest Gump, for anybody that'snot familiar with his human
name. You know, there was the imposter
syndrome started knocking on my door and I started to feel
anxious, like anxiety was reallypresenting itself and I could
feel it. I usually feel it in my chest
and I could just feel it. My breast started to get kind of
shallow. I'm like second guessing things.
(43:34):
I'm like looking at things weirdly.
And I was like, holy shit, I I need to grab a hold of this.
And so I did what I just shared a couple of minutes ago.
I noticed that I'm feeling anxious.
My brain is starting to get noisy.
My chest is getting tight. I've got under boob sweat.
(43:55):
Like things are happening physically and emotionally.
What do I need right now? I need to separate myself from
this conference. Like I just need a little bit of
space. So there was a session before
mine. It was about that time and I was
like, I've got like an hour and a half before I go on.
(44:15):
What do I need right now? I need to go back to my room and
I need to take off my pants. Listen, you've ever had like,
you know, the buttons touching you the wrong way and you just
feel like confined in your in your, in your jeans and like
think you're it's just there's too many things touching me.
It's real. I'm like, I need to take my
(44:37):
fucking pants off and I need to be in a quiet room.
So that's what I did. I went back to my room.
It was the perfect cool temperature.
I took off my pants and I got inmy bed and I pulled all the
covers up on top of me. I just, I just needed to be like
hugged and still and pantsless. Yes, yes.
(44:57):
And after about I don't know. 15minutes of just just sitting
there, literally, I could feel my nervous system starting to
come down. I, I was doing some breath work.
I like to do some somatic work where I like roll my tongue and
make all kinds of weird sounds. That works tremendously well for
me. And all of a sudden I was like,
oh, I'm not anxious anymore. And I got out my iPad.
(45:19):
I went through my slides, I got myself prepped.
It's about 20 minutes before I go on.
And I was like, OK, I'm ready again.
I'm grounded. I've got my confidence back.
The anxiety is gone. I went down into my room.
I nailed the talk. I, I, I has such a great time.
There was a great crowd in the room even for 4:30 in the
(45:41):
afternoon and it turned out great.
It turned out great. And and I just wanted to share
that as a real life example of noticing that.
Feeling in the moment. Asking yourself what you need
and then giving yourself permission to actually do that
thing. I I realize you can't always go
back to a room and take your pants off, but you know what?
You could probably take 3 minutes and go step outside and
(46:04):
get some sunshine. You could go sit in a bathroom
stall for 5 minutes and do some breath work.
You could, you could talk to somebody about what's going on
that might be able to help you talk it out and talk it through
so it it's not getting re regulated and, and and getting
back into your body doesn't always have to be this like day
(46:26):
long, week long month long event.
It's really in these little micro moments what you decide to
allow yourself to actually do. Oh, and I did put my pants back
on just in case. Anybody.
I mean, I guess they probably begrateful that could be a.
Gutsy presentation of its own. Listen.
(46:46):
Definitely. Listen, we're we're, we're not
against. It we're not against it.
Thank you so much Laura. Or like the what a powerful
example of this radical process of listening to what you need
and then doing it immediately. Like what a radical concept.
I think especially for women, especially for folks who haven't
(47:10):
been given the permission by society to take care of
themselves. And even the burnout book that
we referenced a lot here by the Nagasti twins, they talk about
emotions have to go through the beginning, middle and end.
And So what you did was you let the emotions, by going into your
body, asking it what it needs and then honoring it, you
(47:31):
allowed the emotion to work its way all the way through so that
it wasn't still living in your body.
It worked its way out. So you just gave a great example
of, like, this is how you manageburnout and keep it from
becoming chronic. Yeah.
But also this is how you. Attend to your needs as a human
too, right? Like we can talk about the
science, but we also need to talk about I personally can't
(47:55):
afford to not meet my needs as ahuman anymore.
And that I think the moment thatI'm in right now, I will share
that feels pretty radical because it's a little scary.
I, it's almost like a road that like, oh, if I go down this
road, where does that lead me? I already went down scary roads.
I don't want to do that anymore,right?
(48:16):
But I think the looking in and you can find that your needs are
maybe bigger than you think or that you might need to meet
needs that are bigger than you want to meet in the moment.
But I think the going in is suchan important part of of being
human right now. Yeah.
I mean, it's it's the. Listening.
(48:36):
It's being willing to slow down long enough to even ask yourself
the question, I mean. Again, what do we want to do?
We want. To work through it as quickly as
possible because it's uncomfortable.
What would have happened had I not honored that?
I mean, I don't really know because I didn't go down that
path, but I could imagine that the anxiety would have built.
(48:56):
I would have. Been wearing a.
Red turtleneck. Not because I was wearing a red
turtleneck, but because the redness of my chest would have
came up into my neck. I would have felt uncentered.
I would have felt ungrounded. I would have felt off my my
game. I wouldn't have been as
confident in my message. It probably wouldn't have landed
the way that I intend or hope that it would.
(49:19):
And the people in the. Audience that really needed.
To hear something that I was able to like, go deep on
wouldn't have received that message.
I can imagine that might have been an outcome.
So. You know, if you think about.
Like, what's the alternative? Start asking yourself that.
What's the alternative here? I'm going to keep stacking it up
(49:40):
or I'm going to lean into this, this, this uncomfortable moment
to support myself right now. If you don't support yourself,
who's going to do it? Nobody.
And we end up burnout. We end up tired, we end up
exhausted, we end up unfulfilledand we end up doing more shit
that we don't want to do. I got to go and.
Like think about this. For a bit because it's so
(50:01):
powerful. And and just.
Thank you. I appreciate first of all, you
sharing all of this and letting me sit on your green couch for a
minute, but also the time that you've given us.
I know we've kept you a little bit late and I know your time is
extremely valuable. So I'm I'm just so.
Grateful. Happy to do it, Happy to be.
(50:21):
Here someone, dare I say maybe you needed to really hear this
today. So I'm I'm happy to do it.
So, so many important. Messages We are incredibly
grateful to have you here in theburnout break room, Laura Aura
and this conversation has been so incredibly fulfilling.
(50:42):
And as a reminder, I know we've talked about it in previous
episodes, but the the fundamental concept also that
having needs does not make you high maintenance.
You are allowed to have needs and listen to those and act on
them. Truth I fully.
(51:04):
Support that so. Laura Ora, when you are not in
the burnout break room, where can you?
Where can we find you? Where can people access you?
Yeah, Laura, Aura dot. Com is probably the best place
to find all things me the gutsy podcast.
Of course, if you if you like this tone, if you like this
(51:26):
style you like this depth the gutsy podcast is a great next
step. It's on all the platforms and
then on social media. My handle is at that Laura aura.
I put out a shit ton of content all the time.
So I'm making TikTok videos thatgo over into reels.
So if you want a little daily dose of this kind of energy and
and gutsy moves forward, then those are a great place to find
(51:49):
it wonderful. Thank you, Laura, Ora and and
Caitlin, when you're not in the Burn Outbreak room, where can we
find you? People can find me at.
Caitlin True, hella.com as well as my socials from LinkedIn to
Instagram to TikTok, where we have fun and talk about
(52:13):
creativity and how I can supportyou as an artist.
Whether it's ideation sessions for a project that you're
working on or your entrepreneurial ideas and ways
that you can bring your fullest self to your work.
And you can send me a message onInstagram or or Tiktok.
(52:33):
Lindy, when you're not in the burnout break room, where can
people find you? Yeah, so Lindy Larimore dot.
Com is the best place to find meto learn more about what ioffer
as a coach and consultant. You can also find me on
Instagram or at Lindy Larimore on LinkedIn.
Same reach out, drop yourself into my calendar, ask me
(52:56):
whatever you'd like to ask me. I I and also please visit our
our burnout break room sites on Instagram, Facebook and Tiktok.
Caitlin, you're, you're all things for an outbreak room.
Please. Let us know what you think of.
Our episodes share with friends comments.
(53:19):
We'd love to hear your thoughts and requests.
Thank you so much, Laura Ora, it's been such a pleasure.
Thanks so much for taking the time.
Of course, thanks so much for having.
Me.
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