August 11, 2025 • 40 mins
🔨 This week Caitlan and Lyndie are cracking open common myths about therapy and creativity to bring you the real deal.
Welcome back to the Burnout Break Room! The podcast that's like a break room, but helpful. Join us every Monday to escape the hustle spiral. Think of it as a break room—if your coworkers actually talked about real solutions instead of just complaining about meetings that could have been emails. We’re diving into burnout with a realistic lens, spilling the tea on how to reclaim your energy, and finding creative ways to step off the hamster wheel (without burning everything down… probably). Grab your coffee, take a breath, and let’s break the cycle together!
Reference:
See the TedTalk by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie here https://youtu.be/D9Ihs241zeg?si=xrp4Oa0RxrEZM7Ws
See the Kurt Vonnegut lecture here https://youtu.be/j9Qsiu8qqvA?si=wwrWaVV_3LIMwwKc
📗 Caitlan is a Creative Coach, Speaker, and loves getting lost in a book and on a hiking trail.
Follow me @CreativeCaitlan
Find all my projects at https://caitlantrewhella.com/
📙 Lyndie Laramore is a Career Coach and licensed Therapist, and knows exactly how to bring down the house with her classical singing.
Follow me @LyndieLaramore
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome back to Burnout Break Room, the podcast that's like a
break room but helpful, where welook at burnout through a
realistic lens, talk about ways to take a break from the grind
and spill the. Tea.
I'm Caitlin Trujillo, creativitycoach and speaker.
And I'm Lindy Larimore, licensedtherapist, certified career
coach and consultant. We're your hosts and thank you
(00:27):
for joining us here in the Burnout Break Room.
Hi, Caitlin. Hey, Lindy, what's up?
I'm excited for this episode. I love any opportunity to go off
script and break the rules a little bit, and I feel like
that's what we're doing today. I love a good rebel moment.
(00:47):
Because screw them in, you know.Yes, and with a rebel yell we
are going to cry myths today. Wow, this feels so important.
Suddenly no pressure so. Which myths are you going to
(01:11):
cover, Caitlin? What?
What kind of myths are you goingto talk about?
I'm going to talk about different myths as they relate
to creativity, Who has it, who doesn't, and what happens when
we think we can bottle it and when it runs amuck.
I love it. I'm excited.
I'm excited because I feel like I probably buy into a lot of
(01:34):
these myths. So I'm I'm ready to be debunked
and I will be talking about myths about therapy and
therapists. I'm looking forward to those
ones for sure. I'm not a little bit because I
don't mind some of the myths that are out there about
therapists. I kind of like fully embrace
(01:56):
them, which we'll hear more about.
So I'm I'm a little bit sad thatI'm about to debunk some of
these cool things that people think about therapists that are
definitely not real. New and developing Lindy as the
gotcha journalist for therapists.
I know I'm going to start getting letters.
(02:17):
You weren't supposed to tell anyone, Lindy.
I know I didn't want to, but here we are.
We're breaking the rules. So which one are you most
hesitant to share? Oh, we're starting the top, huh?
We're, we're going there first. All right.
Definitely the one about therapists.
(02:38):
Oh, yeah. This is the one that I don't
love debunking. Therapists have their lives
completely together. I'm shocked.
I know, I know. Everyone is collectively
gasping. Therapists definitely do not.
And often times the joke is behind the scenes that most of
(03:01):
them are kind of the opposite. But I say that in jest.
Therapists usually are dealing with just as much as you are.
The hope is that you know they've collected some ways of
coping and are using and practicing what they preach.
I think there are a lot of people out there that do.
I've certainly met some that don't.
(03:23):
And just like in any other job, you've got some people that are
really good and some people thatare struggling.
You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's the same
as any other profession. The other thing too is like
therapists also. So there's like, yes, do they
have mental health struggles? Absolutely.
Like, and often times that's whythey go into the field, but also
(03:47):
they have bad days. They have divorces and breakups.
They've lost people in their lives.
We'll often talk about like going to the place of growth
with the client. So every therapist has a growth
edge. So sometimes the people that we
work with kind of come up to that growth edge and, and the
(04:08):
therapist realizes, oh, I have to do some growing here if I'm
going to be able to like supportthis person.
And I think the really good therapists are using supervision
well so that they can recognize that when it happens, sometimes
it's hard to catch. So jokes aside, this is also a
reminder that, you know, if you feel like your therapist is
(04:33):
bringing their own stuff into a session in a way that's
disrupting your work, that's never OK.
And it's OK to please ask them to stop or find a new therapist.
It's not OK for a therapist to bring their stuff into a
session. You know, their unworked stuff,
but you know, they might share. But it should feel appropriate
and relevant in in moving towards your own growth and, and
(04:59):
treatment. Yeah.
I think there's a in that way. Like, there's a big difference
between using, you know, using personal experience as a guide
as opposed to shifting the spotlight.
If you feel like you've become your therapist, therapist, which
happens a lot, I wish I could say that's kind of a an unusual
(05:21):
thing. It's not.
Then it's time to get a new therapist.
Yeah. I couldn't agree more.
And honestly, I, I think the other, you know, the other way
of looking at this is not so much focusing on that your
therapist or therapist in general don't have their life
together, but that is also goingto allow them to empathize more
(05:43):
greatly with the people that they work with.
Because it's that constant reminder where we're all human.
We all put on pants one leg at atime.
And also recognizing as, as you were saying, like that, that
room for growth. And correct me if I'm wrong,
Lindy, but it is also my understanding that it is not
(06:03):
only common, but an encouraged practice for therapists to at at
least different points, have therapists of their own as well.
Oh, absolutely. I just saw mine today.
She's great. Yes, I I feel strongly that
that's a really important, not that people have to be in
(06:25):
therapy all the time. That's also a myth that I want
to debunk, that therapy has to be a lifelong practice.
It can be, I guess. But like then I'd start to
wonder, like, what are you doingin therapy?
If that makes sense. Like, I think it can come in
phases. And I encourage people to to see
a few different therapists, not at a time, but throughout their
(06:48):
lives as you get different perspectives and theories.
And but yeah, therapists, when they need therapy, should go to
therapy and often do. A lot of Graduate School
programs will do group therapy with therapists so that they can
get an experience of group therapy.
But it's also meant to be a way for them to just do a little of
(07:09):
their own work. And some will insist that they
be in therapy, especially like psychoanalytic programs will
insist that they be psychoanalyzed.
So yeah, absolutely. Especially in terms of like
having a full circle like complete cycle of recognition
and being rooted in the in the community, like within your
(07:32):
field. That's really interesting.
Yeah, yeah. I for myself I will share.
I find it important to be just grounded enough, no matter
what's happening, so that when I'm sitting in front of someone,
I can bring my full attention tothem emotionally and
(07:56):
psychologically. Requires a certain level of
mindfulness practice, Requires acertain level of brushing up on
my skills and knowledge so that I feel like I know how to
support them. And it requires a certain level
of emotional work because any one of us at some point or
(08:17):
another always get tripped up onsomething like that.
We have buttons because of our past or because in, in
supervision, we'll talk a lot about what are your buttons
like? Let's get to know your buttons
so that sometimes you see it coming, sometimes you don't.
But you want to have done enoughwork on your buttons if you can,
(08:38):
so that it doesn't erupt in a session in a way that's
disruptive. Right, right.
And honestly that that sounds like a combination of both
career work, bringing your best professional self to the space,
but also taking care of your personal self to being aware of
(08:59):
things that can come up for for you individually.
Well said, Caitlin. Well said.
You can. You can do some supervision work
now. You just described supervision.
So tell me about some myths about creativity.
The first myth that I want to address because it's also the
one that sincerely makes me angry, and I'll explain why.
(09:23):
The myth that a person is eithercreative or they are not.
And this concept also tends to get lumped in with the very
antiquated idea that the right hemisphere of the brain is
creative and the left side is purely logical.
Now there is a degree of truth to seeing which parts of the
(09:44):
brain are activated during different activities.
However, they are minimal when talking about creative
activities. So we use both hemispheres of
our brain relatively equally when doing different tasks and
of course those not. Not to get into neurology, but
(10:06):
of course you also have different parts of the brain
that are relevant to to how we operate as as humans.
But the the fundamental myth here is that every single person
is creative in their own capacity, and whether that is
manifested in what seemed to be bigger, more obvious ways, or if
(10:27):
they're a little bit more subtle, it still applies.
Yeah, I think I bought into thatmyth very much.
So Like I've or that almost likecertain kinds of creativity are
like real creativity while others are fake creativity.
(10:50):
Like I always thought of myself for years as not being creative
because I wasn't artistic. You hit the nail right on the
head, Lindy. And that's, that's another myth
as well. We can kind of, you know, I'll
roll these all into one as they're very, very closely
related. But so many people consider even
(11:12):
if they do practice some form ofart, if they are not a quote UN
quote professional artiste, thenthey are not creative.
And again, like these definitions that we apply to
ourselves are so oftentimes not helpful for two reasons.
First of all, because when you align your identity with your
(11:34):
capacity to do something exclusively on whether or not
you perform that, that thing professionally, it's a huge
disservice to us as a person. Because even just speaking
anthropologically, jobs haven't existed for the entire time that
that we've been alive. It's, it's kind of like that
(11:56):
age-old question, What's your dream job?
It's like, well, I don't dream of Labor and and so there
there's a lot of de influencing to be done when we talk about
disassociating or detaching the idea of our individual value
coming from the work that we do.Work is very purposeful and it
(12:18):
is very fulfilling and especially when you can use your
own individual form of creativity in that work and see
the fruits of it and especially how it, you know, can positively
impact people or projects. That is very important.
But you are not defined by simply just the the job that you
(12:41):
hold. We are so much more than that.
And in the same way, you can dabble in watercolors or you can
play with like air dry clay or another great differentiator is
the different types of creativity.
Just because it doesn't appear to be artistic in some capacity
(13:02):
or even aesthetic, there are still many different ways to use
creativity. And I'll use an example from
from your line of work, Lindy, having interpersonal creativity,
being able to have a conversation with someone where
you can create a space that is open, welcoming and transparent
and above all, safe. Where you can actively listen to
(13:26):
someone and not only hear what they're saying, but also make
sure that they feel heard. And then of course, you have the
the clinical element there as well where you can kind of read
between the lines and look at the different contexts between
what they're saying to understand on a deeper level or
on a clinical level what they may be experiencing so that you
(13:51):
can best help them in that scenario.
Well said, Caitlin. Yeah.
And I, I'd honestly never thought of that as creativity.
I've I've thought of therapy as like, you know, good improv or,
or as a a process of flow, but yeah, it is, it can be very,
(14:11):
very creative and it is a it is a form of art.
So thank you. Myth debunked.
Yes. And.
You heard it here first. Lindy Larimore is an artist.
She is very creative. Oh, wow, that's cool.
(14:33):
And Caitlin is a therapist supervisor.
So I think we're, you know, we're just figuring our
different careers paths out as we go.
I, I want to bring this, this myth up.
It's not necessarily one of the most interesting myths, but
it's, this is something that I hear a lot when I do when I meet
(14:57):
new clients for the first time. And it's this idea that
therapists are just paid to listen.
And the way that I hear that is one of the things that I try to
do when I'm first meeting with folks is give them an idea of
like, this is my style. This is how I approach therapy.
It's very collaborative. It's very much consensual.
(15:20):
Like we, we come up with a game plan together.
We create a road map before we do anything so that I can make
sure I'm supporting your goals and not my idea of your goals
and my bias of what Wellness should look like.
And often times what I hear people say is when they talk
(15:42):
about therapy in the past, they'll say all my therapist did
was listen and it was helpful tovent, but I didn't feel like I
came away with any solutions. And, you know, and yes,
sometimes I, I keep in mind thatsometimes that was that person's
experience and there might have been a little more nuance to it
(16:03):
or whatever. But I hear this constantly.
And I always make the joke that I can't shut up for 50 minutes.
So I'm, it's impossible physically for me to not talk.
But there is, I think maybe an, you know, when therapy first
happened, it was quite literallysomeone sitting behind you as
(16:24):
you were laying down. You couldn't even see them and
they were silent the whole time taking notes and you were doing
free association. Like that was a very common form
of therapy. They, some of them wouldn't even
talk to you. They would only talk to your
husband, right? Like if you were were a woman, a
married woman or your father, ifyou were an unmarried woman.
(16:45):
And for years it didn't quite super grow beyond like it did
the experience theories changed,social work came on the picture
and everything. But I think there was still this
kind of psychodynamic or clean slate idea.
Therapists were taught to be a clean slate for a lot of years,
(17:07):
which meant that like you were meant to be merely A reflective
surface, which caused therapist to feel like I really can't
bring my full self to a session.I can't be my full self, I can't
disclose anything ever. The more silent I am, the better
the experience for them. And of course there are times
(17:29):
when that's important and I can certainly learn to shut up more
myself, but most people find that not that helpful.
And it also implies a certain level of privilege that the
person across from you has. So it's, you know, if we think
(17:49):
in terms of if therapy is just aplace for you to figure out how
to be more self actualized because all of your other
problems are solved, then great.Sure, you can probably do a lot
of that work yourself, but if you can do a lot of that work
yourself, probably don't need therapy.
But very few people come to therapy were with all of their
(18:15):
financial, physical, relational or cultural problems solved and
without stressors there. So I think one of the things
that's grown and changed hopefully about therapy is
therapists are really required to understand the cultural
implications of the world that someone lives in or the kind of
(18:37):
biases that they encounter everyday and really are meant to
be a little more dynamic than that.
That clean slate idea that we were taught not that long ago.
That is, that is definitely fascinating and especially
considering the the history of how therapy specifically is
administered and between the different styles.
(19:00):
And I, I wonder, Lindy, if in your experience, especially as
you know, we'd start to talk more about mental health and
making time for not only making space, but recognizing when we
might need more support with ourmental health.
Do you find that people are moreable to show up to therapy
(19:26):
either having an idea of how to describe what it is that they
want to work on, or is it more of I'm, I'm aware of this
feeling, I or I, this experiencethat, that I don't like and you
know, I need to talk to somebodyabout it.
That is a good question, Caitlin.
(19:47):
Let me make sure I understand it.
So the question is, are people coming to therapy equipped with
a certain level of knowledge of maybe like the diagnosis that
they're experiencing or some general idea of what's going on
and even maybe ways of treating?Or is it that they're coming,
they are coming almost as a blank slate and just saying I'm
(20:08):
feeling not great. What's going on?
Yeah, that has changed actually pretty drastically I think in
the last five years or so because of social media.
So before really. TikTok, I would say there and
(20:31):
you know, a little bit Instagram, a little bit YouTube,
not only did people not have as much knowledge, but there was
far more stigma. And one thing that social, as
much as social media can be a mixed bag.
One thing that social media has done a beautiful job of is
providing education on on actualmental health and like diagnosis
(20:54):
and, and what it looks like in real life.
And I'm a real person and I haveblah and this is what my life
looks looks like. But this is stuff that people
really didn't have access to notthat long ago.
But also there are certain diagnosis that at one point we
were even told this therapist, like if you diagnose someone
(21:16):
with this, like probably don't tell them or maybe just don't
diagnose them. Like even though it's a real
thing. An example of that is borderline
personality disorder. They were the, the common idea
was it's so stigmatized that like be really careful with that
one. And it's true.
Like it's, you want to be very knowledgeable in any diagnosis
(21:38):
that you treat in, in your diagnostic process and you're in
picking the appropriate treatment.
But there was this kind of underlying like you might
diagnose them, but probably don't tell them.
I found that to be so wildly patronizing and in no way
(21:58):
helpful because then the person has no idea what's happening and
why. But also now because of social
media, they're often coming to me and saying, I'm, you know, I
think I might have borderline personality.
Just sort of we'll sit down and we'll talk about it.
So it's there's a lot of, there's a lot more knowledge out
(22:19):
there and I found it to be overall pretty helpful.
Yeah, and it's I, I mean, just speaking for myself, I
definitely find it to be very useful in, you know, seeing the
different information that's outthere.
And I, I remember learning specifically in, you know, my
(22:39):
even just psych one O one, that that is why diagnosing is taken
so seriously because I mean, first of all, in terms of some
conditions, they result in a permanent diagnosis.
It's not something that rather, it's something that's going to
be associated with, with that person for, for the rest of
(23:02):
their lives. And I remember such an extensive
conversation about this too, especially in the renaming of
different diagnosis as well, because it's, it's, it's
intended to prevent over diagnosing, especially as new
information is learned about different experiences and
(23:22):
different things that people areexperiencing in order to prevent
over diagnosing of, of that thing.
So yeah, seeing seeing the responsibility of that, but also
people recognizing the their ownresponsibility for their mental
health, I think is an incredibleshift.
Absolutely. Yeah.
(23:43):
It's, it's more empowering to the individual when they feel
like they have more tools. And often times they're teaching
me things that they've learned and I I'm learning along with
them. So it's, it's actually kind of
nice. So, Caitlin, what's another
myth? Another creativity myth is that
in order to be a creative person, you have to follow your
(24:08):
own rules. Or rather this, this could go
both ways, that you either have to follow the rules of whatever
creative practice that you're doing, or the only way to be a
real artist, like a, you know, the, the, like the rebellious
painter or what have you, that you can't follow the rules at
all. And The thing is that both of
(24:31):
those are a myth because whatever art that you are
practicing, which I mean, this goes directly back to what we
were just talking about in understanding the responsibility
of what you're doing and that there are reasons why there are
best practices to doing that thing.
It doesn't mean that, you know, it's especially in more
(24:53):
subjective areas like the the humanities.
So to say that you have to follow every single rule because
if we worked that way, then there wouldn't be a lot of
difference between between the arts that were created, right.
But the important thing to remember here is that this
mentality comes directly out of the Renaissance when the you had
(25:18):
this burgeoning new interest forthe arts, you had patrons for
the arts, and even to the degreewhere certificates were
specifically made and administered to those who are
considered professional occupational artists.
And so that established A mentality that in order to be a
(25:40):
creative or to be an artist, it was like a certificate that you
had to earn. And you only earned this by
going through the trade and the practice and being taught by an
an extremely accomplished artist.
Which of course, as we know, this mentality and this practice
(26:00):
is not only incredibly exclusionary, but doesn't
recognize the the fact that again, as we were talking about
before, creativity and art is not just about how you make
money. Well, and there's a piece of
that too, Caitlin. That's the Western, the the
(26:22):
Renaissance movement was very Western.
And correct me if I'm wrong, butlike a very kind of white
movement, right? Like it, like when I think of
Renaissance, it's mostly like European, right?
Am I hearing that? Right.
It is European, it is Western inthat elitist mentality and
(26:43):
especially how it was based around key families.
And so it wasn't just about, youknow, this artist of a, you
know, notable name created this piece is that it was
commissioned for the Medici family or, you know, had a
prominent place in in the Sistine Chapel.
(27:04):
And so the importance was placedon these works and these
individuals based on the money behind it.
And so when you have an elitist approach to art and creativity,
what happens? First, you assign creativity A
socioeconomic value and therefore excluding people who
(27:25):
are not able to be taught by very the very few, you know,
professionals that were available to learn the, the
rules, the quote UN quote rules of how to make high art.
And this is also where the mentality of the difference
between high art and low art. And so one of the things that I
(27:46):
love to talk about, especially, you know, with my experience in
literature and writing, is this mentality of highbrow literature
and low literature. So for example, like if someone
says, oh, I only read Harry Potter or I only read, you know,
young adult books, then that is seen as less valid and less
(28:09):
valued than if you're reading, you know, high literature like
in in the classics. Or for somebody who maybe they
don't know a lot about classic literature whatsoever, somehow
that makes them, you know, not worthy of having discussions
around literature, around stories, around fiction or non
fiction, which of course, as we know just is not true.
(28:32):
And as we learn in literature, there is a benefit to
understanding the difference between how we arrive at
different categorizations of high literature and low
literature, but all the while remembering that they are both
valid, they are both important. You know, me for myself, as much
(28:54):
as I really do love classic literature, I do like reading,
you know, a cozy mystery once ina while and opportunities to
take a break from really heavy concept or really complex
narratives. And so they're, they're both
absolutely worthy. And so when you're looking to
(29:15):
express whatever form of creativity it is that you align
with, you can use different rules as they apply.
You know, just because you don'tfollow particular rules does not
make you less worthy of this space.
Absolutely. You're reminding me, Caitlin, I
(29:35):
what I was kind of trying to vocalize as you were talking.
I was remembering this wonderfulTed talk that I highly recommend
everyone go and see right now. Sham Amanda Gozi Adichie is the
danger of a single story. Sham Amanda is a Nigerian author
(29:56):
and she does a beautiful job of talking about all of the
messaging that she received as agirl and as a woman about like
who's allowed to tell the story and as a Nigerian girl and
woman, as a black girl and woman, like all the different
ways in which I think she was there was messaging that her
(30:16):
story wasn't the single story that was supposed to be told.
Basically, it's a great Ted Talkand she wrote books, really
great books that should such as We Should All Be Feminists,
Sekora, Half of a Yellow Sun. So yeah, highly recommend just
reading something of hers. But also that Ted talk.
It feels kind of like what you're talking about.
(30:40):
Yeah, that's a great recommendation and we can
definitely include the link to that video in the show notes.
Fabulous. I have one more myth to share.
This is a big one that I hear often.
And I think it's actually a big barrier for men in therapy is
that therapy is only about feelings.
(31:01):
And it can certainly feel that way.
But actually, like, there's a lot of, a lot of different
things that are addressed in therapy, such as behavior
change, you know, changing habits, problem solving, life
planning. I'd, I'm a career coach.
So we do a lot of stuff around work.
(31:23):
I talk a lot about work with, with folks, relationships.
Of course, there's a lot of different things that are, and
there's some theories that are based really more on your
thoughts than your feelings really.
So there should be some feelingselement like emotional work done
in therapy or else that's more coaching.
(31:45):
But even coaching brings some some feelings work.
But really it's it's meant to cover a bunch of stuff.
And I promise we do have more questions than just how does
that make you feel? Oh that, that is my favorite.
(32:06):
Especially like a meme worthy moment.
It's my least favorite and I hate answering that question so
I try to avoid it myself. But it, it definitely makes
sense. And, you know, speaking for
myself, I remember the the firsttime I ever had therapy, it was
surrounding a or like directly related to a difficult time in
(32:29):
my life. And one of the first things they
asked me was, have there been any changes in, you know,
external stress, stressors in your life?
Like what, what is what is taking more of your, your energy
and your time? And even just going through that
question was a really big mind shift for me.
(32:50):
Because even just recognizing, you know, it's this one change
in my life is not the only thingthat is causing things to feel
more difficult. And also like recognizing, being
able to take a step back and putall those things in perspective
and say, you know what, for all of these stressors and all of
(33:10):
these changes and everything that is influencing my, my
energy and like what is requiredof me in this time, I'm actually
doing pretty good. Like what, what a, what a
different, you know, mindset shift there.
So even just asking a simple question like that can be
extremely helpful. Yeah, even just like, is there
(33:33):
another way to think of this or is there something else going on
that could be affecting this? Yeah, absolutely.
We're so quick to blame ourselves for things that aren't
going right. And often times, very rarely, is
it ever 100% the fault of the person sitting in front of me.
Yeah. And of course, humans being
(33:56):
complex creatures, everything that we do and we are is in
flux. And so taking the time to
recognize like we have to be gentle with ourselves.
Yes, absolutely. How about another creativity
(34:16):
myth Buster from you? The first part here is that is
the myth that in order to createsomething that is worthy, that
thing has to be new. And first of all, just right off
the bat, one of my favorite quotes from Shakespeare is there
is nothing new under the sun. And it, it reminds me of another
(34:41):
Ted talk by Kurt Vonnegut where he looks at a few basic plot
structures that are the basis ofessentially every story that we
see today. Everything from, you know, boy
meets girl and man and a whole. And there's a, there's a video
on this one too, and I can sharethe link to that.
(35:03):
And so there, there really is nothing new under the sun.
And so to put the pressure on yourself that in order to make
something good, it has to be new.
It has to be groundbreaking. It has to be something nobody's
ever seen before. This is unfair and especially
like establishing expectations for your creativity that are
(35:25):
very difficult, if not impossible to live up to.
It's essentially a form of artistic abuse against ourselves
because it's it's not fair. And that's also not an
environment where creativity and, you know, innovation can
thrive. But the the other way of looking
at this is another myth is that burnout is the state of not
(35:51):
being able to create anything. And this is especially relating
to in, in the context of someonewho is specifically aware of
their creativity style and you know how, how they like to
express that. And I'm going to use a, a movie
as an example. So for all the Studio Ghibli
(36:12):
fans out there, this one's for you, Kiki's Delivery service.
And if you're not familiar with this one, the essence of the
story is Kiki as a young witch moves away from home in order to
study her practice and also to, to meet new people and
experience life. And it's kind of a like that's
(36:36):
that's what establishes this coming of age story.
But it's not just the coming of age for her.
It's the realization of what her, you know, special abilities
and what her passions are. And for her, it turns out to be
flying. And the more that she uses this
ability of flying and ends up turning it into the delivery
(36:58):
service, Kiki's delivery service, and then out of
nowhere, she's not able to fly anymore.
And it's this incredibly heartbreaking sequence of her
questioning herself, questioningher abilities.
What am I doing here? Am I not meant to do this at
all? And she ends up befriending an
(37:20):
artist who lives in the woods. My ideal life, right?
Yeah. And they have these
conversations about the relationship that you have with
your art. And she tells Kiki a story of,
you know, when I was first learning to paint, it was really
(37:41):
difficult. It seemed like I wasn't learning
fast enough. And then I would practice and
practice and practice. And I would fall asleep at my
easel one day. I just couldn't paint anything.
Nothing seemed to be good enough.
And I didn't even. It got to the point where I
didn't even want to, you know, pick up a brush anymore.
And Kiki asks her, well, what did you do?
(38:02):
Because she sees, you know, all the beautiful artwork
surrounding her, you know, woodland cabin and and she said
I stopped trying. I took AI took a break and I
directed my I, I did other things.
I took a walk. I, you know, befriended some
crows going to town and meet up with friends.
(38:23):
And she said it was only after that time that, you know, you
begin to reconnect with your artistic vision.
And, you know, you see a sunset in a different way and you hear
from other people and you're able to reconnect with that
artist that is inside you. Because of course, we, we are
(38:44):
very much a part of nature and no element of nature produces
100% of the year. We all have seasons, and so a
big part of recognizing whether it's burnout or just taking a
break from your creativity is absolutely a form of self-care.
(39:07):
I think that's a mic drop momentand I think that is the episode.
Thank you, Caitlin. Beautiful wisdom and I think a
great depiction of burnout and knowing when to walk away from
something, whether it's to restore or to even go in a
(39:29):
different direction. So thank you for that.
And thank you, Lindy, for debunking all of these myths for
us, even the ones that, you know, might make us feel a
little bit more exposed. But you know, I, I think it also
reminds us that we're, every single person is going through
(39:49):
their own stuff and a little bitof empathy goes a really long
way. Yeah.
Well, thanks Caitlin and I will see you next time.
See you next time.
Welcome back to Burnout Break Room, the podcast that's like a
break room but helpful, where welook at burnout through a
realistic lens, talk about ways to take a break from the grind
and spill the. Tea.
I'm Caitlin Trujillo, creativitycoach and speaker.
And I'm Lindy Larimore, licensedtherapist, certified career
coach and consultant. We're your hosts and thank you
(00:27):
for joining us here in the Burnout Break Room.
Hi, Caitlin. Hey, Lindy, what's up?
I'm excited for this episode. I love any opportunity to go off
script and break the rules a little bit, and I feel like
that's what we're doing today. I love a good rebel moment.
(00:47):
Because screw them in, you know.Yes, and with a rebel yell we
are going to cry myths today. Wow, this feels so important.
Suddenly no pressure so. Which myths are you going to
(01:11):
cover, Caitlin? What?
What kind of myths are you goingto talk about?
I'm going to talk about different myths as they relate
to creativity, Who has it, who doesn't, and what happens when
we think we can bottle it and when it runs amuck.
I love it. I'm excited.
I'm excited because I feel like I probably buy into a lot of
(01:34):
these myths. So I'm I'm ready to be debunked
and I will be talking about myths about therapy and
therapists. I'm looking forward to those
ones for sure. I'm not a little bit because I
don't mind some of the myths that are out there about
therapists. I kind of like fully embrace
(01:56):
them, which we'll hear more about.
So I'm I'm a little bit sad thatI'm about to debunk some of
these cool things that people think about therapists that are
definitely not real. New and developing Lindy as the
gotcha journalist for therapists.
I know I'm going to start getting letters.
(02:17):
You weren't supposed to tell anyone, Lindy.
I know I didn't want to, but here we are.
We're breaking the rules. So which one are you most
hesitant to share? Oh, we're starting the top, huh?
We're, we're going there first. All right.
Definitely the one about therapists.
(02:38):
Oh, yeah. This is the one that I don't
love debunking. Therapists have their lives
completely together. I'm shocked.
I know, I know. Everyone is collectively
gasping. Therapists definitely do not.
And often times the joke is behind the scenes that most of
(03:01):
them are kind of the opposite. But I say that in jest.
Therapists usually are dealing with just as much as you are.
The hope is that you know they've collected some ways of
coping and are using and practicing what they preach.
I think there are a lot of people out there that do.
I've certainly met some that don't.
(03:23):
And just like in any other job, you've got some people that are
really good and some people thatare struggling.
You know what I mean? Like it's, it's, it's the same
as any other profession. The other thing too is like
therapists also. So there's like, yes, do they
have mental health struggles? Absolutely.
Like, and often times that's whythey go into the field, but also
(03:47):
they have bad days. They have divorces and breakups.
They've lost people in their lives.
We'll often talk about like going to the place of growth
with the client. So every therapist has a growth
edge. So sometimes the people that we
work with kind of come up to that growth edge and, and the
(04:08):
therapist realizes, oh, I have to do some growing here if I'm
going to be able to like supportthis person.
And I think the really good therapists are using supervision
well so that they can recognize that when it happens, sometimes
it's hard to catch. So jokes aside, this is also a
reminder that, you know, if you feel like your therapist is
(04:33):
bringing their own stuff into a session in a way that's
disrupting your work, that's never OK.
And it's OK to please ask them to stop or find a new therapist.
It's not OK for a therapist to bring their stuff into a
session. You know, their unworked stuff,
but you know, they might share. But it should feel appropriate
and relevant in in moving towards your own growth and, and
(04:59):
treatment. Yeah.
I think there's a in that way. Like, there's a big difference
between using, you know, using personal experience as a guide
as opposed to shifting the spotlight.
If you feel like you've become your therapist, therapist, which
happens a lot, I wish I could say that's kind of a an unusual
(05:21):
thing. It's not.
Then it's time to get a new therapist.
Yeah. I couldn't agree more.
And honestly, I, I think the other, you know, the other way
of looking at this is not so much focusing on that your
therapist or therapist in general don't have their life
together, but that is also goingto allow them to empathize more
(05:43):
greatly with the people that they work with.
Because it's that constant reminder where we're all human.
We all put on pants one leg at atime.
And also recognizing as, as you were saying, like that, that
room for growth. And correct me if I'm wrong,
Lindy, but it is also my understanding that it is not
(06:03):
only common, but an encouraged practice for therapists to at at
least different points, have therapists of their own as well.
Oh, absolutely. I just saw mine today.
She's great. Yes, I I feel strongly that
that's a really important, not that people have to be in
(06:25):
therapy all the time. That's also a myth that I want
to debunk, that therapy has to be a lifelong practice.
It can be, I guess. But like then I'd start to
wonder, like, what are you doingin therapy?
If that makes sense. Like, I think it can come in
phases. And I encourage people to to see
a few different therapists, not at a time, but throughout their
(06:48):
lives as you get different perspectives and theories.
And but yeah, therapists, when they need therapy, should go to
therapy and often do. A lot of Graduate School
programs will do group therapy with therapists so that they can
get an experience of group therapy.
But it's also meant to be a way for them to just do a little of
(07:09):
their own work. And some will insist that they
be in therapy, especially like psychoanalytic programs will
insist that they be psychoanalyzed.
So yeah, absolutely. Especially in terms of like
having a full circle like complete cycle of recognition
and being rooted in the in the community, like within your
(07:32):
field. That's really interesting.
Yeah, yeah. I for myself I will share.
I find it important to be just grounded enough, no matter
what's happening, so that when I'm sitting in front of someone,
I can bring my full attention tothem emotionally and
(07:56):
psychologically. Requires a certain level of
mindfulness practice, Requires acertain level of brushing up on
my skills and knowledge so that I feel like I know how to
support them. And it requires a certain level
of emotional work because any one of us at some point or
(08:17):
another always get tripped up onsomething like that.
We have buttons because of our past or because in, in
supervision, we'll talk a lot about what are your buttons
like? Let's get to know your buttons
so that sometimes you see it coming, sometimes you don't.
But you want to have done enoughwork on your buttons if you can,
(08:38):
so that it doesn't erupt in a session in a way that's
disruptive. Right, right.
And honestly that that sounds like a combination of both
career work, bringing your best professional self to the space,
but also taking care of your personal self to being aware of
(08:59):
things that can come up for for you individually.
Well said, Caitlin. Well said.
You can. You can do some supervision work
now. You just described supervision.
So tell me about some myths about creativity.
The first myth that I want to address because it's also the
one that sincerely makes me angry, and I'll explain why.
(09:23):
The myth that a person is eithercreative or they are not.
And this concept also tends to get lumped in with the very
antiquated idea that the right hemisphere of the brain is
creative and the left side is purely logical.
Now there is a degree of truth to seeing which parts of the
(09:44):
brain are activated during different activities.
However, they are minimal when talking about creative
activities. So we use both hemispheres of
our brain relatively equally when doing different tasks and
of course those not. Not to get into neurology, but
(10:06):
of course you also have different parts of the brain
that are relevant to to how we operate as as humans.
But the the fundamental myth here is that every single person
is creative in their own capacity, and whether that is
manifested in what seemed to be bigger, more obvious ways, or if
(10:27):
they're a little bit more subtle, it still applies.
Yeah, I think I bought into thatmyth very much.
So Like I've or that almost likecertain kinds of creativity are
like real creativity while others are fake creativity.
(10:50):
Like I always thought of myself for years as not being creative
because I wasn't artistic. You hit the nail right on the
head, Lindy. And that's, that's another myth
as well. We can kind of, you know, I'll
roll these all into one as they're very, very closely
related. But so many people consider even
(11:12):
if they do practice some form ofart, if they are not a quote UN
quote professional artiste, thenthey are not creative.
And again, like these definitions that we apply to
ourselves are so oftentimes not helpful for two reasons.
First of all, because when you align your identity with your
(11:34):
capacity to do something exclusively on whether or not
you perform that, that thing professionally, it's a huge
disservice to us as a person. Because even just speaking
anthropologically, jobs haven't existed for the entire time that
that we've been alive. It's, it's kind of like that
(11:56):
age-old question, What's your dream job?
It's like, well, I don't dream of Labor and and so there
there's a lot of de influencing to be done when we talk about
disassociating or detaching the idea of our individual value
coming from the work that we do.Work is very purposeful and it
(12:18):
is very fulfilling and especially when you can use your
own individual form of creativity in that work and see
the fruits of it and especially how it, you know, can positively
impact people or projects. That is very important.
But you are not defined by simply just the the job that you
(12:41):
hold. We are so much more than that.
And in the same way, you can dabble in watercolors or you can
play with like air dry clay or another great differentiator is
the different types of creativity.
Just because it doesn't appear to be artistic in some capacity
(13:02):
or even aesthetic, there are still many different ways to use
creativity. And I'll use an example from
from your line of work, Lindy, having interpersonal creativity,
being able to have a conversation with someone where
you can create a space that is open, welcoming and transparent
and above all, safe. Where you can actively listen to
(13:26):
someone and not only hear what they're saying, but also make
sure that they feel heard. And then of course, you have the
the clinical element there as well where you can kind of read
between the lines and look at the different contexts between
what they're saying to understand on a deeper level or
on a clinical level what they may be experiencing so that you
(13:51):
can best help them in that scenario.
Well said, Caitlin. Yeah.
And I, I'd honestly never thought of that as creativity.
I've I've thought of therapy as like, you know, good improv or,
or as a a process of flow, but yeah, it is, it can be very,
(14:11):
very creative and it is a it is a form of art.
So thank you. Myth debunked.
Yes. And.
You heard it here first. Lindy Larimore is an artist.
She is very creative. Oh, wow, that's cool.
(14:33):
And Caitlin is a therapist supervisor.
So I think we're, you know, we're just figuring our
different careers paths out as we go.
I, I want to bring this, this myth up.
It's not necessarily one of the most interesting myths, but
it's, this is something that I hear a lot when I do when I meet
(14:57):
new clients for the first time. And it's this idea that
therapists are just paid to listen.
And the way that I hear that is one of the things that I try to
do when I'm first meeting with folks is give them an idea of
like, this is my style. This is how I approach therapy.
It's very collaborative. It's very much consensual.
(15:20):
Like we, we come up with a game plan together.
We create a road map before we do anything so that I can make
sure I'm supporting your goals and not my idea of your goals
and my bias of what Wellness should look like.
And often times what I hear people say is when they talk
(15:42):
about therapy in the past, they'll say all my therapist did
was listen and it was helpful tovent, but I didn't feel like I
came away with any solutions. And, you know, and yes,
sometimes I, I keep in mind thatsometimes that was that person's
experience and there might have been a little more nuance to it
(16:03):
or whatever. But I hear this constantly.
And I always make the joke that I can't shut up for 50 minutes.
So I'm, it's impossible physically for me to not talk.
But there is, I think maybe an, you know, when therapy first
happened, it was quite literallysomeone sitting behind you as
(16:24):
you were laying down. You couldn't even see them and
they were silent the whole time taking notes and you were doing
free association. Like that was a very common form
of therapy. They, some of them wouldn't even
talk to you. They would only talk to your
husband, right? Like if you were were a woman, a
married woman or your father, ifyou were an unmarried woman.
(16:45):
And for years it didn't quite super grow beyond like it did
the experience theories changed,social work came on the picture
and everything. But I think there was still this
kind of psychodynamic or clean slate idea.
Therapists were taught to be a clean slate for a lot of years,
(17:07):
which meant that like you were meant to be merely A reflective
surface, which caused therapist to feel like I really can't
bring my full self to a session.I can't be my full self, I can't
disclose anything ever. The more silent I am, the better
the experience for them. And of course there are times
(17:29):
when that's important and I can certainly learn to shut up more
myself, but most people find that not that helpful.
And it also implies a certain level of privilege that the
person across from you has. So it's, you know, if we think
(17:49):
in terms of if therapy is just aplace for you to figure out how
to be more self actualized because all of your other
problems are solved, then great.Sure, you can probably do a lot
of that work yourself, but if you can do a lot of that work
yourself, probably don't need therapy.
But very few people come to therapy were with all of their
(18:15):
financial, physical, relational or cultural problems solved and
without stressors there. So I think one of the things
that's grown and changed hopefully about therapy is
therapists are really required to understand the cultural
implications of the world that someone lives in or the kind of
(18:37):
biases that they encounter everyday and really are meant to
be a little more dynamic than that.
That clean slate idea that we were taught not that long ago.
That is, that is definitely fascinating and especially
considering the the history of how therapy specifically is
administered and between the different styles.
(19:00):
And I, I wonder, Lindy, if in your experience, especially as
you know, we'd start to talk more about mental health and
making time for not only making space, but recognizing when we
might need more support with ourmental health.
Do you find that people are moreable to show up to therapy
(19:26):
either having an idea of how to describe what it is that they
want to work on, or is it more of I'm, I'm aware of this
feeling, I or I, this experiencethat, that I don't like and you
know, I need to talk to somebodyabout it.
That is a good question, Caitlin.
(19:47):
Let me make sure I understand it.
So the question is, are people coming to therapy equipped with
a certain level of knowledge of maybe like the diagnosis that
they're experiencing or some general idea of what's going on
and even maybe ways of treating?Or is it that they're coming,
they are coming almost as a blank slate and just saying I'm
(20:08):
feeling not great. What's going on?
Yeah, that has changed actually pretty drastically I think in
the last five years or so because of social media.
So before really. TikTok, I would say there and
(20:31):
you know, a little bit Instagram, a little bit YouTube,
not only did people not have as much knowledge, but there was
far more stigma. And one thing that social, as
much as social media can be a mixed bag.
One thing that social media has done a beautiful job of is
providing education on on actualmental health and like diagnosis
(20:54):
and, and what it looks like in real life.
And I'm a real person and I haveblah and this is what my life
looks looks like. But this is stuff that people
really didn't have access to notthat long ago.
But also there are certain diagnosis that at one point we
were even told this therapist, like if you diagnose someone
(21:16):
with this, like probably don't tell them or maybe just don't
diagnose them. Like even though it's a real
thing. An example of that is borderline
personality disorder. They were the, the common idea
was it's so stigmatized that like be really careful with that
one. And it's true.
Like it's, you want to be very knowledgeable in any diagnosis
(21:38):
that you treat in, in your diagnostic process and you're in
picking the appropriate treatment.
But there was this kind of underlying like you might
diagnose them, but probably don't tell them.
I found that to be so wildly patronizing and in no way
(21:58):
helpful because then the person has no idea what's happening and
why. But also now because of social
media, they're often coming to me and saying, I'm, you know, I
think I might have borderline personality.
Just sort of we'll sit down and we'll talk about it.
So it's there's a lot of, there's a lot more knowledge out
(22:19):
there and I found it to be overall pretty helpful.
Yeah, and it's I, I mean, just speaking for myself, I
definitely find it to be very useful in, you know, seeing the
different information that's outthere.
And I, I remember learning specifically in, you know, my
(22:39):
even just psych one O one, that that is why diagnosing is taken
so seriously because I mean, first of all, in terms of some
conditions, they result in a permanent diagnosis.
It's not something that rather, it's something that's going to
be associated with, with that person for, for the rest of
(23:02):
their lives. And I remember such an extensive
conversation about this too, especially in the renaming of
different diagnosis as well, because it's, it's, it's
intended to prevent over diagnosing, especially as new
information is learned about different experiences and
(23:22):
different things that people areexperiencing in order to prevent
over diagnosing of, of that thing.
So yeah, seeing seeing the responsibility of that, but also
people recognizing the their ownresponsibility for their mental
health, I think is an incredibleshift.
Absolutely. Yeah.
(23:43):
It's, it's more empowering to the individual when they feel
like they have more tools. And often times they're teaching
me things that they've learned and I I'm learning along with
them. So it's, it's actually kind of
nice. So, Caitlin, what's another
myth? Another creativity myth is that
in order to be a creative person, you have to follow your
(24:08):
own rules. Or rather this, this could go
both ways, that you either have to follow the rules of whatever
creative practice that you're doing, or the only way to be a
real artist, like a, you know, the, the, like the rebellious
painter or what have you, that you can't follow the rules at
all. And The thing is that both of
(24:31):
those are a myth because whatever art that you are
practicing, which I mean, this goes directly back to what we
were just talking about in understanding the responsibility
of what you're doing and that there are reasons why there are
best practices to doing that thing.
It doesn't mean that, you know, it's especially in more
(24:53):
subjective areas like the the humanities.
So to say that you have to follow every single rule because
if we worked that way, then there wouldn't be a lot of
difference between between the arts that were created, right.
But the important thing to remember here is that this
mentality comes directly out of the Renaissance when the you had
(25:18):
this burgeoning new interest forthe arts, you had patrons for
the arts, and even to the degreewhere certificates were
specifically made and administered to those who are
considered professional occupational artists.
And so that established A mentality that in order to be a
(25:40):
creative or to be an artist, it was like a certificate that you
had to earn. And you only earned this by
going through the trade and the practice and being taught by an
an extremely accomplished artist.
Which of course, as we know, this mentality and this practice
(26:00):
is not only incredibly exclusionary, but doesn't
recognize the the fact that again, as we were talking about
before, creativity and art is not just about how you make
money. Well, and there's a piece of
that too, Caitlin. That's the Western, the the
(26:22):
Renaissance movement was very Western.
And correct me if I'm wrong, butlike a very kind of white
movement, right? Like it, like when I think of
Renaissance, it's mostly like European, right?
Am I hearing that? Right.
It is European, it is Western inthat elitist mentality and
(26:43):
especially how it was based around key families.
And so it wasn't just about, youknow, this artist of a, you
know, notable name created this piece is that it was
commissioned for the Medici family or, you know, had a
prominent place in in the Sistine Chapel.
(27:04):
And so the importance was placedon these works and these
individuals based on the money behind it.
And so when you have an elitist approach to art and creativity,
what happens? First, you assign creativity A
socioeconomic value and therefore excluding people who
(27:25):
are not able to be taught by very the very few, you know,
professionals that were available to learn the, the
rules, the quote UN quote rules of how to make high art.
And this is also where the mentality of the difference
between high art and low art. And so one of the things that I
(27:46):
love to talk about, especially, you know, with my experience in
literature and writing, is this mentality of highbrow literature
and low literature. So for example, like if someone
says, oh, I only read Harry Potter or I only read, you know,
young adult books, then that is seen as less valid and less
(28:09):
valued than if you're reading, you know, high literature like
in in the classics. Or for somebody who maybe they
don't know a lot about classic literature whatsoever, somehow
that makes them, you know, not worthy of having discussions
around literature, around stories, around fiction or non
fiction, which of course, as we know just is not true.
(28:32):
And as we learn in literature, there is a benefit to
understanding the difference between how we arrive at
different categorizations of high literature and low
literature, but all the while remembering that they are both
valid, they are both important. You know, me for myself, as much
(28:54):
as I really do love classic literature, I do like reading,
you know, a cozy mystery once ina while and opportunities to
take a break from really heavy concept or really complex
narratives. And so they're, they're both
absolutely worthy. And so when you're looking to
(29:15):
express whatever form of creativity it is that you align
with, you can use different rules as they apply.
You know, just because you don'tfollow particular rules does not
make you less worthy of this space.
Absolutely. You're reminding me, Caitlin, I
(29:35):
what I was kind of trying to vocalize as you were talking.
I was remembering this wonderfulTed talk that I highly recommend
everyone go and see right now. Sham Amanda Gozi Adichie is the
danger of a single story. Sham Amanda is a Nigerian author
(29:56):
and she does a beautiful job of talking about all of the
messaging that she received as agirl and as a woman about like
who's allowed to tell the story and as a Nigerian girl and
woman, as a black girl and woman, like all the different
ways in which I think she was there was messaging that her
(30:16):
story wasn't the single story that was supposed to be told.
Basically, it's a great Ted Talkand she wrote books, really
great books that should such as We Should All Be Feminists,
Sekora, Half of a Yellow Sun. So yeah, highly recommend just
reading something of hers. But also that Ted talk.
It feels kind of like what you're talking about.
(30:40):
Yeah, that's a great recommendation and we can
definitely include the link to that video in the show notes.
Fabulous. I have one more myth to share.
This is a big one that I hear often.
And I think it's actually a big barrier for men in therapy is
that therapy is only about feelings.
(31:01):
And it can certainly feel that way.
But actually, like, there's a lot of, a lot of different
things that are addressed in therapy, such as behavior
change, you know, changing habits, problem solving, life
planning. I'd, I'm a career coach.
So we do a lot of stuff around work.
(31:23):
I talk a lot about work with, with folks, relationships.
Of course, there's a lot of different things that are, and
there's some theories that are based really more on your
thoughts than your feelings really.
So there should be some feelingselement like emotional work done
in therapy or else that's more coaching.
(31:45):
But even coaching brings some some feelings work.
But really it's it's meant to cover a bunch of stuff.
And I promise we do have more questions than just how does
that make you feel? Oh that, that is my favorite.
(32:06):
Especially like a meme worthy moment.
It's my least favorite and I hate answering that question so
I try to avoid it myself. But it, it definitely makes
sense. And, you know, speaking for
myself, I remember the the firsttime I ever had therapy, it was
surrounding a or like directly related to a difficult time in
(32:29):
my life. And one of the first things they
asked me was, have there been any changes in, you know,
external stress, stressors in your life?
Like what, what is what is taking more of your, your energy
and your time? And even just going through that
question was a really big mind shift for me.
(32:50):
Because even just recognizing, you know, it's this one change
in my life is not the only thingthat is causing things to feel
more difficult. And also like recognizing, being
able to take a step back and putall those things in perspective
and say, you know what, for all of these stressors and all of
(33:10):
these changes and everything that is influencing my, my
energy and like what is requiredof me in this time, I'm actually
doing pretty good. Like what, what a, what a
different, you know, mindset shift there.
So even just asking a simple question like that can be
extremely helpful. Yeah, even just like, is there
(33:33):
another way to think of this or is there something else going on
that could be affecting this? Yeah, absolutely.
We're so quick to blame ourselves for things that aren't
going right. And often times, very rarely, is
it ever 100% the fault of the person sitting in front of me.
Yeah. And of course, humans being
(33:56):
complex creatures, everything that we do and we are is in
flux. And so taking the time to
recognize like we have to be gentle with ourselves.
Yes, absolutely. How about another creativity
(34:16):
myth Buster from you? The first part here is that is
the myth that in order to createsomething that is worthy, that
thing has to be new. And first of all, just right off
the bat, one of my favorite quotes from Shakespeare is there
is nothing new under the sun. And it, it reminds me of another
(34:41):
Ted talk by Kurt Vonnegut where he looks at a few basic plot
structures that are the basis ofessentially every story that we
see today. Everything from, you know, boy
meets girl and man and a whole. And there's a, there's a video
on this one too, and I can sharethe link to that.
(35:03):
And so there, there really is nothing new under the sun.
And so to put the pressure on yourself that in order to make
something good, it has to be new.
It has to be groundbreaking. It has to be something nobody's
ever seen before. This is unfair and especially
like establishing expectations for your creativity that are
(35:25):
very difficult, if not impossible to live up to.
It's essentially a form of artistic abuse against ourselves
because it's it's not fair. And that's also not an
environment where creativity and, you know, innovation can
thrive. But the the other way of looking
at this is another myth is that burnout is the state of not
(35:51):
being able to create anything. And this is especially relating
to in, in the context of someonewho is specifically aware of
their creativity style and you know how, how they like to
express that. And I'm going to use a, a movie
as an example. So for all the Studio Ghibli
(36:12):
fans out there, this one's for you, Kiki's Delivery service.
And if you're not familiar with this one, the essence of the
story is Kiki as a young witch moves away from home in order to
study her practice and also to, to meet new people and
experience life. And it's kind of a like that's
(36:36):
that's what establishes this coming of age story.
But it's not just the coming of age for her.
It's the realization of what her, you know, special abilities
and what her passions are. And for her, it turns out to be
flying. And the more that she uses this
ability of flying and ends up turning it into the delivery
(36:58):
service, Kiki's delivery service, and then out of
nowhere, she's not able to fly anymore.
And it's this incredibly heartbreaking sequence of her
questioning herself, questioningher abilities.
What am I doing here? Am I not meant to do this at
all? And she ends up befriending an
(37:20):
artist who lives in the woods. My ideal life, right?
Yeah. And they have these
conversations about the relationship that you have with
your art. And she tells Kiki a story of,
you know, when I was first learning to paint, it was really
(37:41):
difficult. It seemed like I wasn't learning
fast enough. And then I would practice and
practice and practice. And I would fall asleep at my
easel one day. I just couldn't paint anything.
Nothing seemed to be good enough.
And I didn't even. It got to the point where I
didn't even want to, you know, pick up a brush anymore.
And Kiki asks her, well, what did you do?
(38:02):
Because she sees, you know, all the beautiful artwork
surrounding her, you know, woodland cabin and and she said
I stopped trying. I took AI took a break and I
directed my I, I did other things.
I took a walk. I, you know, befriended some
crows going to town and meet up with friends.
(38:23):
And she said it was only after that time that, you know, you
begin to reconnect with your artistic vision.
And, you know, you see a sunset in a different way and you hear
from other people and you're able to reconnect with that
artist that is inside you. Because of course, we, we are
(38:44):
very much a part of nature and no element of nature produces
100% of the year. We all have seasons, and so a
big part of recognizing whether it's burnout or just taking a
break from your creativity is absolutely a form of self-care.
(39:07):
I think that's a mic drop momentand I think that is the episode.
Thank you, Caitlin. Beautiful wisdom and I think a
great depiction of burnout and knowing when to walk away from
something, whether it's to restore or to even go in a
(39:29):
different direction. So thank you for that.
And thank you, Lindy, for debunking all of these myths for
us, even the ones that, you know, might make us feel a
little bit more exposed. But you know, I, I think it also
reminds us that we're, every single person is going through
(39:49):
their own stuff and a little bitof empathy goes a really long
way. Yeah.
Well, thanks Caitlin and I will see you next time.
See you next time.
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