A Self-Taught Cook Explains How Food Became The Path To Mental Health And Purpose

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:24):
All right.

SPEAKER_00 (00:24):
We're back.

SPEAKER_01 (00:25):
I know again, once again, Burley's back again.
I like saying that because it'snot a good one.
We need to come up.
I'm coming up with a new one.

SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
I know.
We got a couple of newentrances.
So Maxwell McGibbon, we're hereat the World Food Championships
and met you here, and you had atotally different story because
it's a competitive environment.
So you have a lot of chefs herethat work in restaurants, and
you were kind of the oppositefor a really good reason in
food, and you found passion, butyou did help.
So tell everybody about yourselfa little bit and how you came
into this competition too.

SPEAKER_02 (00:51):
Yeah, so um once again, Max McGibbon, uh born and
raised pretty much South Phillyin Delaware, the New Jersey
area.
Um I I've worked in corporateAmerica for 16 years, and pretty
much when the pandemic camearound, I started working from
home like everyone else, andthat really kind of got me in my
feelings and trying tounderstand how I can live in the

(01:11):
present for once, because that'ssomething I've always struggled
with.
So uh, you know, starting thefood page and knowing that I've
always liked to cook growing upwhile I ever watches food
network channels or any foodchannel, anything food related.
So uh I think it was the rightdecision to make this uh food
channel, Maxwell's Meals, onInstagram, TikTok, starting up
on YouTube soon too, as well.

(01:31):
But it's really been able topush me into what I call pursuit
of the present.
You know, it's just something Ilong to strive for, and cooking
is how I do it, and posting mycontent, feeding my community,
families, and uh even myfollowers and friends.
All my food's free.
And uh I just love to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:48):
So so you take it's amazing to me that what you're
saying, well, this is not thefirst time we hear this type of
scenario when it comes to peoplegoing from corporate America to
the you to the to the socialmedia to to cook and find a
passion.
Because if that's what's makingif food is what is making you
feel better and put gettingyourself out there, if food is

(02:10):
bringing you out of what it isthat that holds you down, you're
not alone.
No, I mean you're not alone,they're all there's a huge
community and they're calledeverybody because food I think
is important to everybody.
Even if you're having a bad dayand you eat something that's
better, why do you think, why doyou think someone on death row
gets a last meal?
Get the last meal, yeah.
At least they get their lastmeal because food is that

(02:31):
important.
So at least, hey, you're goingout, but at least you get a last
meal.
So they could offer you anythingin the world, they could offer
you a cigarette, a prostitute,cocaine, yeah, right?
They can offer you anything youwant, but they don't.
They offer you the last meal.

SPEAKER_00 (02:44):
They offer you a thing.

SPEAKER_01 (02:45):
And most people don't wince.
I mean, most people don't thinktwice, they want their last
meal, right?

SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
Yeah, it's important, but you said mental
health, and we talked aboutthat.
So it's important why you kindof found the passion, because
food obviously triggers, youknow, serotonin, dopamine,
oxytocin response in our brain.
And you said, you know, you dealwith some of that neurodivergent
stuff, so it helps you actuallyfocus.

SPEAKER_02 (03:05):
Yeah, and it's wild too, because I'm I'm I'm an
introvert, but once I gettalking and once I break out of
my shell, I can talk forever.
I could talk about anything, Ican get along with everyone.

SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
And it's food that subject that brings you right.

SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Nice.

SPEAKER_01 (03:19):
So you have your you're you're starting your
Instagram or your social media,right?
So you're building up your youryour army, your brand, and
everything else.
And and we're we're all there atthe same point.
Everybody starts somewhere, andsome people get to two million
and still think they're startingthere.
So it it's uh it's anever-ending yeah, but the best
part about it is if that if thatis what's making you feel better
and go for the food.

(03:40):
You said something veryimportant that I want to make
sure I repeat it here, is thathe takes his food that you do
and you make enough of it duringyour social media recordings or
whatever it may be, and and yougive it to people meaning to
feed the community.

SPEAKER_02 (03:52):
Yeah.
And and so that's that's anotherthing about it.
Is like I work in corporateAmerica, I have a career, I have
money to supplement all of thewhat is your corporate job?
Uh so I work in a bank.
Uh I'm pretty much been there,like I said, 16 years, started
from the bottom.
Now I'm just managing a callsite.
I'm here, you know, and now I'mhere, you know.
And and so this, like I like yousaid, I live alone.

(04:14):
I cook as if I have a family at10, and anything that I have
left over goes to whoever wantsit.
First come, first serve.
Whether it's just a randomfollower or something.

SPEAKER_01 (04:22):
So you have people you have people in your outside
in your neighborhood orsomething?

SPEAKER_02 (04:27):
So right now I'm here.
So my neighbors are taking careof my dogs.
So they know they can once theygo take care of my dogs.
I have three freezers with abunch of leftover soups, stews,
chicken, bindaloo, anything youcan think of.
They know they're free to that.
They're gonna get cookies when Iget back, probably, you know, or
whatever they want.

SPEAKER_01 (04:44):
So you're gonna make it and then give it to the
channel.

SPEAKER_02 (04:46):
They love you.
Yeah, you're a great neighbor.
It's like it's a win-winsituation because one, it got me
to break me out of my shell,learn to live in the present,
find my passion.
But also, it's been able to openup opportunities like this, few
festivals I've been able to do.
I cater weddings or anythingthat anyone wants to do.
So, like, I say my food is free.
It's what it's when I cook formy content, it's free.

(05:06):
When you want to come over to myhouse and just shoot the shit,
it's free.
But if you hit me up and say,hey, I have an 80-person
wedding, I'm not gonna say no,but guess what?
I'm doing it on my time, right?
So, like, just ask me ahead oftime.
I'm more than willing to helpyou out.
You know, and it's it's alllove.

SPEAKER_01 (05:22):
So at some point in time, you would, I would, I
would imagine you'd like to turnthis into some sort of career,
not for the money, but to beable to fund your passion.

SPEAKER_02 (05:29):
Exactly.
And and and so two years ago, ifyou told me I was losing my job,
I'd be shitting my pants, right?
Because like I kind of, once Ifound my passion, I kind of
understood that all right, Ifound something that kind of got
me a living in the president foronce.
Now, how can I kind of keepthat?
I have I have the job, my careerthat's making the money for
everything, so why not just letme do this for fun because it

(05:52):
makes me feel good?
You know, and that was two yearsago, and I was like, my my whole
reasoning behind that is like Idon't want to start anything
because I don't want to losethat passion.
Yeah.
I always say, how many, how manytimes have you worked 13 hour
days and gone home and cookedfive hours to like a great meal?
You're eating top ramen, PB andJ or some leftover lemon from
the night before.
You know, so I finally enjoythat, but now, now if you told

(06:14):
me I'm losing my job, I'd belike, that's a blessing, you
know, because now I'm talkingabout my my being in the
present, but now I've and mypassion, but now there's a
purpose in my life now that I'mgetting older, and I'm like, all
right, well, how can I make thismore purposeful?
So once that purpose and uhpassion balance out, I think
that's when I'm gonna have tobreak free and kind of do what I
need to do.

SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
You're gonna have to, you're gonna have to,
anytime we're in the culinaryworld, anytime we're dealing
with the food industry, andanytime we're doing um uh
hospitality industry, yeah, theonly way to succeed in it
honestly is to s is to sacrificeand risk and take the chance.
Because if not, you're not goingto ever get out of where you
are.
And that goes for everybody inindustry, okay?
If you're a line cook and you'reand you're not gonna take the

(06:56):
step to become the next level,right?
No matter what you're doing, ifyou're afraid to make your own
pasta because you don't havetime, you'd rather go drink,
that's where you're always gonnabe.
You have to give up somethingfor something in the industry,
no matter what.
And if it's not cooking, it'sbartending.
If it's not bartending, it'sweight staff.
You know, if you're gonna ifyou're gonna walk around with a
tray of ice water and that'swhere you're comfortable, or do

(07:17):
you want to walk around and getyour wine some type
certificates?
It depends on where you want tobe, but you're not gonna get to
the next level until you leavethat bubble.
So losing your job, you like yousaid, would be a blessing if
that passion is there, it'llopen up the gate to be able to
do it, you know.
So um I like it.
Talking about food gets mejuicy.
I know, you get excited.

SPEAKER_00 (07:38):
I know someone's hungry right now.
So I'm sorry.
So we haven't eaten yet today,so we're hungry.
So we need to go outside.

SPEAKER_02 (07:44):
Right?

SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
But what like some of your favorite things to make?

SPEAKER_02 (07:46):
So you learned you're more self-taught, so you
know, I mean, that's honestly animpossible question for me
because I try not to make thenot not try to make the same
thing twice because I can makechicken parms too.
If I wanted to, you know, I loveit.
But like I have ramen tattooedon my arm, Asian cuisine,
anything with complex flavors,Indian food, Thai food, uh,

(08:06):
Vietnamese food, like anything,those are probably my favorite
things to cook because there's alot of complexity and steps to
the dish.
I do everything from scratch.
So if I'm doing like jerkchicken, there's 27 spices I'm
throwing in my grinder, making apaste, letting it marinate for
however long.
You know, it's just astep-by-step process, and that's
what gets me focused and whathelps me live out my price.

(08:29):
Yeah, so you're staying on trackwith everything.
I just kind of like forgeteverything once I'm in the
kitchen.
But Asian food is probably myfavorite.

SPEAKER_00 (08:36):
And you traveled, so you said travel is a big part of
it.
So you're actually going tothese countries.
Are you learning while you'rethere and bringing it back?
Of course.

SPEAKER_02 (08:43):
Uh I I mean bring stuff back if I need to, but I
want to be there for theexperience.
So the most recent place I was Iwas just in Italy for two weeks,
a few months ago, uh, travelingall over from Middle Italy,
Rome, all the way up to LakeCuomo, and just understanding
how each region has their ownspecific dish that's for that
region where it was originallyfrom.
And just I wanted to go to eachcity and have that dish.

(09:06):
And then when I come back, Iwant to make that dish.

SPEAKER_01 (09:08):
Sure.
So I do that often.
I go twice a year, but I'm anItalian chef, and if you come
down to Virginia Beach and seewhat I got going on, we can work
together on that.
But I see you you you went fromyou don't have any training, you
don't you've never worked in therestaurant industry.
This is all self-taught stuff.
Yes.
And you've and he's never umnever been in the industry at
all.
So to be able to do that, yeah,now you're working with a really

(09:29):
good chef.
So we have a uh chef ChrisWilliams.
We talked to him yesterday, as amatter of fact.
So that that episode will pop uphere and there.
But you're I saw you shoffingfor him at the World Food
Championship competition.
So passion is what brings youthere.
So whatever level you're at,you're gaining it, and you're
gonna continue to gain it byfeeding your dragon.

(09:50):
You know what I mean?
You gotta feed the beast, right?
Yeah, always.
And each time you do somethinglike this, you're gaining more
and more experience.
Are you ever gonna work in arestaurant?
Maybe not.
Are you gonna continue doingwhat you're doing?
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 (10:02):
Never stop.

SPEAKER_01 (10:03):
So maybe the restaurant working in that field
just you didn't have to do thatbecause you're a passionate
cook.
Yeah, right?
Whether you're a chef or not isirrelevant.
It doesn't matter because youknow, the word chef is is so
good.
It goes all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 (10:18):
Like, oh, you're a chef, and I'm like, no, don't
get it twisted.
Now, like now, I have AltonBrown calling me chef, and now
once I was doing events withlike some celebrity chef.
But now, like, I feel like I Igain the value.
Like, I can call myself a chef.
I'm not like working out, I'mnot an actual chef, but hell,
I'll cook the hell out ofanything you want me to cook,
and it's be one of the bestthings you've ever tasted.

(10:39):
Yeah, so you know, I which isawesome.
I it it's it's tough to havethat conversation because
they're like, oh, what youdoing?
Then it's like, are you a chefor you're not a chef?
And we're talking for 20 minutesabout something I don't want to
talk about.
I just like to cook that damn.

SPEAKER_00 (10:50):
Shut up and let me cook.
Shut up and let me cook.

SPEAKER_01 (10:53):
And and that's amazing.
So Alton Brown, talking aboutAlton Brown.
Anyone asks me, I have a coupleof celebrity chefs that I I
like, but Alton Brown has to bethe number one because I still
utilize from when I was youngand he was on his TV show, I was
younger.
I was I'm still using some ofthe methods I learned from him.
One of them being theThanksgiving turkey episode that

(11:14):
he had, I still use that afteryears, after decades of using or
or learning in my field.
You know, I'm not a slack chef,I'm around some serious chefs,
and we cook together at veryhigh levels.
So there's a million ways thatI've learned to cook a turkey,
but I still utilize his becauseit's so simple and beautiful,
and the way it comes out is veryscientifically thought out.

(11:36):
And it just comes together.

SPEAKER_02 (11:38):
Because watching him do what he does in person,
that's exactly what it is.
Like, it's not just for theepisode.
But he he he wants everyone toknow the why and the how behind
everything, and not just say,hey, here's a recipe A through
Z, follow the steps and get itdone.
I tell people all the time,like, it's different giving me a
recipe as someone who's not usedto cooking, handling a recipe,
because it's all about like why.

(11:58):
Like, what's the point of likebrowning the beef before adding
some vegetables and building theflavors that you do?
How do you build a roux?
What does that do?
That's the most importanttechnique in the book.
Alton Brown, thank you forteaching me that.
Right?

SPEAKER_01 (12:10):
Yeah, well, yeah, right.
That's something we learned allthe way.
Alton Brown learned that fromsomebody because that is the
fundamental basics of what itis.
Yeah when you use a roux versusslurry, stuff like that.
There's there's differentthings, of course.
But these are all things thatare that's the science behind
cooking.
And it's a basic science at theroux level.
Yeah, but the science growsdeep, man.
Once we get into the agars andthe uh thickening agents and

(12:31):
what you know.
Sure, there's so many differentthings we could talk about, but
you know, arrowroot, stuff likethat, things that people don't
understand what the science ofit does to certain chemicals in
the food.
So the chemistry is huge incooking, just as much as the
flavor and the scent andeverything else.
So having that knowledge isawesome.
So you're trying to build yoursocial media empire, and we all
know it's not easy because thereare so many people doing it,

(12:54):
right?
Yeah, the options are out there.
Yeah, so the algorithms, theluck being here, being there, it
will work.

SPEAKER_02 (13:01):
Yes, it will work.

SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
It will work.
And if your content is sincere,it'll it'll last just as long as
you put it out there.
Yeah, and eventually it's gonnabuild and grow.

SPEAKER_02 (13:09):
Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_00 (13:10):
And it that's what we always hope.
So it's it's a game.

SPEAKER_02 (13:13):
It's been weird for me because I started obviously
well, everyone's zero followers.
I'm posting pictures at firstfour years ago.
Like I started with pictures, Imoved the time-lapse videos
because you guys know, like, youhit a plateau and then you need
to switch it up, change it up,do it again.
Now I'm doing like full face-oninstructional videos, and and uh
yeah, it it's tough to do it,but I want the most organic

(13:34):
following possible.
That's natural.
Well, that's what makes adifference.

SPEAKER_00 (13:37):
I mean, micro influencers beat out mega
influencers any day.

SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
Once you start getting in this business or
doing this content stuff, you'llyou'll get a lot of DMs like do
this, like ten dollars, you canraise your followers.
Like, it's all BS because thenyou what do you want?
8,000 followers, just so peoplecould see you have two likes.
Like, it's it shows.

SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
I can go on someone's account and tell them
they've paid for followers.
So we have clients that havebeen in that situation, and it's
it's it doesn't get youanywhere.
It's but we call it vanitymetrics.
You don't need the vanitymetrics.

SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
We're not doing it for that because it's useless.
We're doing it to put themessage out.
Yeah, we're talking to therestaurant industry, we're
talking to the restaurant peoplewho like the restaurant industry
as a whole.
Foodies.
And if you're a robot, you don'teat, so we don't give a shit
about what the hell you fuckinglike about.
We don't care about that.

SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Yeah, we don't like those kind of farms.
We're regular farms, not thesame.

SPEAKER_01 (14:28):
So pot farm to assume.

SPEAKER_00 (14:30):
So I have we have to do the, we have some at the like
towards the end of these, welike to do these little rapid
fire questions.
So I'm gonna get a couple thatare appropriate for you, because
again, you're not in the regularkitchen brigade.
So these are gonna be like quickanswers, so we gotta we gotta go
through them just to see howyou're gonna do it.
First thing that comes to mind.
All right.
So besides a knife, what is yourgo-to kitchen tool you can't
live without?

SPEAKER_02 (14:51):
Tweezers.

SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
You're the first person to say tweezers.
The long okay.
I love my tweezers.

SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
I use tweezers, I have 12, 18 inch, 14 inch.
My pasta, it's my second year.

SPEAKER_00 (15:03):
That's not it.
All right.
What puts you in the mood more?
Smell or the visual?

SPEAKER_02 (15:08):
Smell.

SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
Okay.
The favorite ingredient youcan't live without.

SPEAKER_02 (15:15):
Potatoes, I don't think.
I like that.

SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Um, what cooking method intimidates you the most?

SPEAKER_02 (15:22):
Oh shit.
Um could be French, could beEnglish, could be uh just like
sous vide, could be saucessometimes, maybe.
Sauces.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Sauces are hard to get, but you gotta learn that.
That's a that's a process.

SPEAKER_00 (15:35):
Your favorite cheap fast food restaurant?

SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
Oh, Burger King.
Just a Whopper Man, just likehot whopper.
And also it's it's a half milefrom a house, too, like a walk
there.

SPEAKER_00 (15:47):
I like it.
Okay.
Um if your kitchen was a car,what kind of car would it be?

SPEAKER_02 (15:52):
Oh, um uh a V dub van.
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (15:56):
I like that one.
Like the ones from the 70s.

SPEAKER_02 (15:59):
Throw a surfboard on top, I don't even surf fucking.
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 (16:02):
Just for the aesthetics.
Okay.
Baking, yes or no?

SPEAKER_02 (16:05):
Baking?

SPEAKER_00 (16:06):
Baking.

SPEAKER_02 (16:07):
No, two years ago, yes now.

unknown (16:09):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (16:10):
I hate flour, it gets everywhere.
All right.

SPEAKER_00 (16:12):
All right, and if you could cook with anyone, who
would it be?

SPEAKER_02 (16:15):
Um you've kind of already done it.
I already didn't know.
And it's just like I'm sorry,Anthony Bourdain.
That's what we're sure.

SPEAKER_03 (16:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (16:23):
So there you go.
All right, awesome.
Well, let's tell everybody whereto find you so they can follow
along.

SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
Yeah, so uh it's Maxwell's underscore meals.
It's on Instagram, TikTok.
I do have some YouTube stuff outnow, but I focus on Instagram
and TikTok.
And uh, and yeah, that's exactlywhere you can find me.
I'm in Delaware.
If you're ever around and wantany free food, if you want free
food, just show them in hishouse.
If you want to do a night inPhilly, we can do that too.
I'll be I necessarily.
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (16:47):
If you had one thing to say to anybody that's coming
up under the, you know, anyonewho's trying to influence or
anyone who's trying to learn howto cook but doesn't, you know,
feels the intimidation of notbeing in a kitchen.
What do you what do you got tosay to that?

SPEAKER_02 (16:59):
What's what you I have to say, anything is
possible, just try it out, andwhatever doesn't work, try
something different, you know?
And it's just like like yousaid, you gotta break out of
that that that mold a littlebit.
And like, I I was scared to cookonce too, but like I found to do
it.
And even if it's not your thing,just try it out.
It brings people together, evenif you can have bring people
into the kitchen with you tohelp you out so you all can

(17:21):
learn, just do it.

SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
And feed a matter.
From going from scared to cookonce to cooking with Ultra Brown
without having any restaurant inthe middle, is is something to
be said.
Yeah.
So follow this guy.
Congratulations.
Follow this guy.

SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
Thank you for being here with us.
We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 (17:36):
Appreciate you.
Have a great day, man.
Enjoy this fucking World FoodChampionship.
No, I know.
Again, live and direct, WFCworking.
There we are.
And uh ciao for now.

SPEAKER_00 (17:47):
Ciao for now.

SPEAKER_01 (17:47):
Thank you, guys.

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A Self-Taught Cook Explains How Food Became The Path To Mental Health And Purpose

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