June 9, 2025 • 31 mins
What does it truly mean to be a professional chef in today's culinary landscape? Beyond the kitchen heroics and artistic plating lies a world of standardization, certification, and continuous education that many working chefs never explore.
In this revealing conversation with representatives from the American Culinary Federation (ACF), we dive deep into the often-overlooked realm of professional culinary certification. Since 1929, the ACF has worked to elevate cooking from a trade to a respected profession, creating pathways for recognition that honor both formal education and hard-earned experience in the trenches of professional kitchens.
"Anyone can call themselves a chef," notes one ACF member, highlighting the industry's struggle with professional identity. But certification through organizations like the ACF provides peer-reviewed validation of skills and knowledge. From food safety fundamentals to advanced culinary techniques, certification ensures that professionals meet established standards while still allowing room for individual artistic expression.
Perhaps most surprising is the flexibility of the certification process. Contrary to popular belief, culinary school isn't a requirement. The ACF has built equivalencies into their system that recognize years of kitchen leadership, competition achievements, and even published work. Monthly chapter meetings provide educational opportunities and networking at no cost to attend, making this professional community accessible to curious chefs at all career stages.
Whether you're a restaurant owner looking to elevate your team's credentials or a seasoned chef seeking recognition for decades of experience, the ACF offers pathways to professional validation that many in the industry have overlooked. Visit ACFchefs.org to find your local chapter and discover how certification might enhance your culinary journey.
Learn more at https://www.acfchefs.org/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, all right, here we are, we're back, we have some
good, we have some interestingguests today.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I know.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Something that's really cool, because a lot of
people in the restaurantindustry, especially chefs, more
or less don't get to see thisside of it, because the side of
it is the side that usually getsthe brunt of it right.
You guys get the shit end ofthe stick sometimes because you
put down the finger right,because someone has to hold
everybody accountable.
Come on, someone has to holdeverybody accountable, come on
here you are, and it's a greatthing.
So the ACF this is Dave, yeah.
(00:27):
Yep, jack, jack, thank you andwe have a great crew here, so
we're here at the World FoodChampionships and you guys are
crucial in overseeing this.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
As far as judgment things that are going on, give
us a little history on first ofall let's talk about the acf for
a minute, because let's talkabout that and then we'll get
into it.
Well, the acf is the americanculinary federation and the
national chapter was startedback in 1929.
(00:56):
Um, our local indianapolischapter was started in the early
70s, um, and as far as theamerican culinary federation
goes, one of the great thingsthat they did early on back in
the early 70s is reallypetitioning in Washington DC and
Congress and things to make thechef a profession instead of
just like a trade.
So they brought it into aprofessional organization.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Sure, and that is exactly what it is.
It is a profession, and with aprofession you need to have
standards, and the standards asfar as chefs are concerned,
typically in the kitchen, thestandard of execution is pretty
much where it ends From thatpoint all levels of execution to
the plate.
Well, what goes on behind thescenes is what a lot of people
take for granted.
All the temperature controls,the FIFO, all that stuff, all
(01:41):
these standards that come up,are regulated and introduced in
an educational platform.
We can't just learn it, youlearn it.
Of course, the people in thekitchen, on the streets learn it
, but they're learning a systemthat's been in place and you
guys help promote to educate.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
When you go out and have that fantastic restaurant
experience, it's becausesomebody like us is back there
to facilitate and make sure thathappens.
And a big part I'm Jack Lennon,if I didn't say a big part of
my initiative is certification.
So if you think about a chefcertification, if somebody's a
doctor, somebody's a lawyer, youwould hope that they've taken
(02:18):
some type of standardized test.
They went to some type ofschool to be able to certify
them to do that, and it's thesame in the chef world.
So I'm the indie certificationchair, so it is my job anybody
that wants any level ofcertification to lead them
through that process.
So there is a certificationthat starts with there's a
(02:41):
written and then there's apractical exam portion.
So somebody like me would helpyou through that process.
If you want to be a CEC, whichI am Certified Executive Chef,
all the way up to CMC, which isa Certified Master Chef, all the
way down to just a CertifiedCulinarian.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Somebody really just getting in and learning that
certification is a ticket.
Yep, absolutely, that's not onlya ticket, but it helps you do
things like this.
It helps you get involved.
And if you're just going tocook and not care about the
certificate, you're kind ofselling that idea short.
I'm not saying you're sellingyourself short because some
people might not have theexposure, but for people out
there who are cooking and notreally paying attention to it, a
(03:17):
certification is a certificateright.
It's to certify knowledge.
It's to certify knowledge.
So if you gain knowledge, youearn your certificate right.
So it's a guarantee that thatchef, chefs or no matter who it
is, has the knowledge it takesto not only be able to cook the
food but actually do it in a waythat's proper.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, it really shows like an employer.
If you're looking at two chefsand one's gone through
certification, the employer canlook back and figure out what
that standard is.
Is that they've gone throughand they know that a judging or
not a judging, but a a board, ifyou will has looked at them and
has said yes, they can do thesethings show the level of
(03:56):
commitment as well.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Level of commitment is huge.
So again, certifications.
Certification comes withknowledge, and commitment is
proved by knowledge too.
Knowledge comes with commitment.
You don't get all three ofthose together without one of
the other parts Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And there's different levels of certification too.
Just coming out of culinaryschool or apprenticeship program
, you've got a certifiedculinarian, which is the very
bottom part of yourcertification.
These standards you should knowhow to do these things, you
know, up to a certified souschef, certified chef de cuisine,
certified executive chef and ofcourse, we have the same in
pastry chef as well certifiedworking pastry chef, certified
(04:35):
executive pastry chef all thesame standards.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So you guys are holding up the professional
explanation of the titleAbsolutely.
So we have chef is a chef is achef.
I say it all the time, chris,right, we say it all the time.
Anybody can call themselves achef.
Everybody can say, okay, I cookchicken wings, I'm this sports
bar chef.
Everybody says this.
They throw around the word soloosely that it's not even fair
(05:00):
sometimes.
So there are people who havegone through it and done the
work and put in and have thebrigades and teach and hold
people accountable.
And then you have the peoplewho just throw around the word
hey chef, hey chef, hey chef,pizza chef, pastry chef.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I look at it as almost like we've been peer
reviewed.
So peers, our peers, ourcolleagues have given us a
written test, giving us apractical exam that we've gone
through and we've physicallyshown them that we can do these
things.
And we've been peer-reviewedand we go forward and actually
Jack and I are both evaluators,so we actually go around and
(05:36):
actually evaluate others andpeer-review them so they can
earn their certification.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And it's up to us to show that professionalism.
So if there is somebody that isnot certified or hasn't went
through, it's up to us to showwhat that standard looks like
regardless, and be an ambassadorfor the ACF and what it is we
do and why it's important.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So if somebody's going through their
certification process or theirpractical exam and they're not
living up to the standard, we'renot shaming or anything like
that.
We want to make that a teachingopportunity and say, okay, the
standard's up here, this is abetter way to do it.
And then, you know, give themthe you know an opportunity to
come back.
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So where do you guys register in the line of what
most is commonly in therestaurants across America, the
normal basic food handlers,managers and certificates and
handler cards and stuff.
Is that something you guysfocus on or do you leave that to
other entities or how does thatplay into your work?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
As far as sanitation and things like that, we don't
do anything with, I mean, otherthan our standard of sanitation.
But if you're getting yourServSafe, you know we leave that
up to other entities.
We don't.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And that's part of the package.
So once you get certified, youwould have to be ServSafe
certified, because that's one ofthe criteria.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So do you and ServSafe kind of work
hand-in-hand?
Yes, we do.
So you guys keep updating eachother on the new standards.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And Ivy Tech, like Ivy Tech, indy is a big part of
our program and that's wherethey are doing certification.
That's where they are doing thesurf safe certification.
So we got boots on the groundhere in indy, in the community
with ivy tech in the partnershipand they they do a lot with our
acf do you know how many peopleare handling?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I don't this is a rhetorical question, but do you
know how many people in theindustry are handling other
people's food and don't have acertificate of even the most
basic?
absolutely, yeah, food handlerscard yeah yeah, number one, most
essential part of wash yourhands.
They don't even have that part.
Yeah, you know, and I find itto be disturbing, especially in
(07:41):
a place that doesn't havesomebody to oversee.
Yeah, you know theprofessionalism.
So it's it's very importantthat these words get out,
because it's for people's safety.
Now there's going to be chefsout there that are listening to
this, this fucking dude.
Yeah, no, it's not.
It's.
It's true.
The more, the more, the moreresponsibilities I have yep by
the more restaurants I open andthe more employees I hire and
the more customers that rely onme and the more awards I win and
(08:03):
the more things I go after.
Yeah, it becomes more importantbecause now we have
accountability, that we need tobe held accountable.
So how we hold my people?
So I'm going to work my ass offto make sure my standard is
high.
What's left for the person atthe lowest who comes to work
with no passion?
They lost it six months ago.
(08:24):
You don't know it yet.
So these are in places for thatright.
The ACF is in places for thatright.
The ACF is in place for this.
It is.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
It's important to let people know that there's a lot
of space in between somebodythat says I want to be a
celebrity chef on the FoodNetwork and I'm working at a
dead end restaurant holding awall somewhere there's a lot of
space, bro.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That's called a highway and there's a lot that
you can do within that highway.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And a part of us is letting people know because when
you come to ACF meetings you'reworking with education chefs,
some restaurant chefs.
I'm a chef that's in sales.
I sell food for a living.
You know whether you're anassistant living chef, so you
get a chance to meet a lot ofdifferent chefs and now we're
(09:10):
having that conversation.
Like all of our meetings areeducation based.
So every time you come to ACFmeeting there is an educational
component.
So one meeting I may be talkingabout speed scratch with
Affinity Group and showing ourproducts and how speed scratch
can help in your kitchen.
Another meeting might be doingurban foraging and talking about
(09:31):
you know people that foragemushrooms around.
So each meeting there's aneducational component and it
does not cost to come tomeetings.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So if you were to tell somebody I asked you this
question myself so if you wereto talk to somebody about this,
a lot of people get intimidatedby the one factor, one factor
only.
No one has time anymore to goto school or get the
certifications to programs.
If you have 300 hours ofschooling, is there something in
place?
What do you recommend forsomebody who didn't go to school
but yet they've been in theindustry for 20, 30 years?
(10:03):
They are absolutely anexecutive chef, maybe even more.
You know.
The only difference betweenthat and the master is the
certifications.
So what do you recommend tothat person?
Like me, there's a certainamount of well, the list it out.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So a lot of experience goes into gaining
your points quote unquotetowards education.
But there's online courses thatwe could take and the ACF kind
of lays it out a 30-hour courseon sanitation which is going to
be your serve set.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Are there any of these?
Okay, good to know.
So a food manager's card, Ibelieve, is 30 hours of work.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Is going to take care of that.
Another one would be help meout on another one, but it's
going to be some kind ofbusiness management.
30 hours.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say business
workforce supervision and italso depends on the level.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So if we're looking at a CEC, it's going to have
these, but the great thing aboutmoving up on those levels is
everything kind of carries over.
So by the time, if you startright out of culinary school
looking for your CC, you'regoing to get that.
And then just not very longlater, you know, once you take
this next course or you get theexperience points you're going
(11:12):
to be able to test for your CFD.
So really in actuality.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Like you just said, it's important to know this.
So you come out of school andyou already get something
because you have the educationalhours there to get you in?
Yes, Now, the crucial part nowis the experience side is
actually harder to get than thefrigging schooling, yes.
So a guy like me who might becomplaining a little bit about
oh man, I got to go to 30 hoursinstead of the other Well, the
(11:36):
other person who's already gotthose has to go through 10 years
of work.
Yep, yep, yep Of experience.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It's almost the chicken or the egg.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Which one?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
should you have.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
But what I would say is for somebody that is getting
in the industry and maybe youdidn't go to school, there's
equivalence.
Getting in the industry andmaybe you didn't go to school,
there's equivalence.
The acf is going to look.
They're going to look at, uh,just as far as what, what you've
done in industry, if you haveany certifications, how many
hours, how many people you'vemanaged all of that goes in.
So it's not a situation whereif you don't have an associate's
(12:08):
degree, you can't get certified.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
There's equivalence built into it, and it must be,
because the the industry is waytoo big to funnel it to just
somebody who graduated school.
The industry that's a smallpercentage of the industry.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So we say instead of like a supervisory, you need
30-hour supervisory.
Instead of taking a 30-hourcourse, maybe you sat through a
two-hour lecture over here andyou got two hours here and you
got three hours here.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
You can put 10 things together that are going to
equal that 30 hours, that now,that puts that together I'm just
being.
I'm just being uh, no,absolutely getting here.
So if, if I'm a chef and I have30 employees and I'm
award-winning chef, youobviously did that with a team.
Doesn't that, right there,signify that you obviously know
how to lead a kitchen, or itdoes?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
and that that's factored in.
Like they ask you how manyemployees have you been
responsible for?
Sure and that factors into itas well, because that shows that
you already have thatleadership and that you can lead
a team and like, if you like,let's say you want a medal, uh,
some culinary medal through anacf sponsor event, that is
(13:14):
equivalent to.
So all of that factors in, soit's not pigeon hailed to one
way to get it it all back.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
If you've written articles for a magazine, or if
you've sure taught, or if you'veuh, lectured or talked, you
know all that stuff countstowards.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So let's use me as an example if I, if I won Chef of
the Year for 2024 from theVirginia Restaurant and
Hospitality Commission.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
There's some kind of equivalence for it.
There's some kind ofequivalence there.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So these are important things for people to
know.
So people just look at the.
They look at the like the buglight.
They see.
They look down the tunnel ofschool, school, school, school,
this.
I'm gone, so there's a lot moreto look at here.
So does the ACF, if I were togo on their website or anything
like that.
And you're talking about whatyou just educated me on food
managers card.
Okay, that's good knowledge.
(14:02):
I didn't realize that A lot ofpeople have that.
They don't even know they'realready part of that.
Is there a list of schools orthings that equivalent?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Not only there's the list of everything the basic
requirements for education andwork related.
It's all listed there.
But ACF has them.
Let me make sure it's 123Chef.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So there's a link from our ACF website to 123Chef,
which actually has links to allof the 30-hour online courses
that you can do.
That's good to know, andthere's a lot of free courses on
there, too, there's a lot offree courses.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
You read about avocados and take a small test.
That's an hour, maybe an houror 30 minutes.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
At the end of the day , it's all about the tip, and if
you're doing it through thatsite, it must be collecting its
own data Absolutely, and thenthey'll tell you right into
which one?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, once you get those certificates, you're
turning them into the ACF.
I'll do a shout-out to Kiwi,who's the one on the other end
of the e-mails when you turnthose things in and they keep
track of everything and then onthe site or on your personal
site on the ACF, you can lookand see where you are on your
continuing education and whatyou still need.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Sure, this is great knowledge.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, it's a great resource, a lot of people, I'm
going to be at my level ofchefing in the restaurant.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I'm not in the acf, yeah, but I'm going to tell you
this I'm, I'm, so I'm a leveltwo wine, so I'm.
Because I have to do that, thatcounts.
You know what I mean.
So I count, yeah, your beverage.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Your everything's going to be taken care of there.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You know level one, sorry, level one, yeah, but but
that counts there.
So, yeah, um, now what I haveis, if I go do this and advocate
for it, be an advocate of itbecause I want to see for myself
, absolutely.
It's not only to get thecertification.
I'm doing fine with that.
My restaurants are great, myname is Nate, my teams are great
.
That's not the point.
The point is is I'm an advocatefor the actual learning and the
(15:49):
educational part of it.
The older I get, the moreexperience I get.
I'm realizing the value ofeducation because, as people who
pay, we end up losing the money.
Yes, whether we get fined, orwhether we lose people, or
whether we're losing product ortemperature damage, or first in,
first out is not proper timeexposure.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
One foodborne illness will set you right.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Foodborne illness.
All this stuff is veryimportant, yeah, so I am going
to take this challenge and I'mgoing to go back, I'm going to
get you, I'm going to stay incontact with you guys, if you
don't mind.
Now you're stuck.
See, now I hooked you.
That's what I like.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You have the two restaurants, so we also have
property memberships, which thenlets all the people working for
you come on as members.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
See, this is all knowledge.
You know I'm not going to saythis in the wrong way.
I hope I'm not saying it wrong,but this all should be exposed
further.
This should be much more putout there.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
This is the start of that process.
Being at events like this to beable to talk about this because
a lot of it is kind of I don'twant to say it's a secret, but
it's a secret but it's internal.
We know this and now it's usreaching out and coming to do
events like this so we can tellpeople what the ACF is, how to
(17:01):
get involved locally.
Right now we're really tryingto get as many members as we
possibly can and a lot of peopledon't know.
You don't have to pay to cometo an ACF meeting.
Now.
There's a fee once you decidethat you would like to become a
member.
But to come to an ACF meetingit is absolutely free and you
get to see what the resourcesyou get to talk to all of the
(17:24):
chefs Once a month.
We all get together at a place.
There's always food involved.
There's always educationinvolved, because, at the end of
the day, continuing educationis the lifeblood of this
industry and it's networking.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But, you know, one of the biggest things we try to
focus on in our local chapter aswell, because we do have a
really good partnership with IvyTech, which is a culinary
program.
We try to stay connected withour high school level culinary
programs and our college levelculinary programs and and mentor
the younger culinarians into it.
And then, you know, talk tothem about the return on
(18:00):
investment of becoming an ACFmember.
You know, it's not just network, it is networking, but it's
it's mentorship and learning andbeing able to reach out to
people to ask questions and andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So it and and then also holding each other
accountable jumping on platformslike this that didn't exist 10
years ago so quickly.
This is also a good platformfor us, and this is what the
burnt hands perspective is aboutis reaching out to every facet
of the restaurant or a foodservice in the industry people,
yeah, and that's what this isabout.
So I'm now challenged.
Just from being here thisweekend, I've already committed
(18:36):
to having to go to Boston.
I've got to go to SouthCarolina to do a shoot now and
learn about some South Carolinastuff, and now I've got to get
ACF certified and we're going toSt Thomas and St Croix for
another shot.
This is amazing networking,right?
Yeah, so if somebody wants togo, do it.
I live in Tidewater area.
I know Hampton Roads, virginia,virginia Beach area.
(18:56):
So if you want to get ACFcertified, what do you recommend
to these people?
Do they go to their localchapter and reach out to them?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I would start with the local chapter.
Some chapters are more activethan others.
Hopefully, your local chapteris very active.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Can I get a hall pass and just go directly to?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
you guys?
Hell yeah, so you can join.
You can join any chapter.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, we'd love to have you.
One reason why I became acertification chair was because
in getting certified there wasso many questions that I had
about the process and, like Isaid, sometimes there can be
some element of confusion and Iwanted to fix that.
So once I got certified I saidI don't want anybody to ever
feel like I felt, um, you knowjust the anxiety of am I doing
(19:42):
this right?
Is this the what, this what Ishould be doing?
Is this the right book I shouldbe studying?
I don't ever want anybody to gothrough that.
So I became the certificationchair.
Right, I can be the change thatI.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Is that certification chair just for your chapter, or
is that for national chapter,that's for our chapter, but
every chapter has a branch ofcertification, and you guys
reach out to each other whenneed be.
So you're going to pull a plug.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You're going to plug me in there, absolutely, and if
there's ever anybody that needsthat and that's always my call
to action Because some peopledon't have the support when
they're trying to get certified,and because they don't have
that support, they may go for itand fail, whereas there are
small things that they probablycould have did and been
(20:26):
certified.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So we're here live at the show.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah, it's going great.
Look it's wild.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Right now they're dropping food, so there's a lot
of cheering going on, you knowone of the other things about as
we continue to get the word outabout the ACF or re-get the
word out about the ACF.
You know, consumers and patronsof restaurants and hotels and
things like that, you know.
I'd like to really see themunderstand what the acf and our
(20:53):
standard is, so that whenthey're making a decision on
where to go eat uh, you know,just like you know they're going
to see your health code, youknow grade up in the window of
the restaurant say, okay, thisis a good place.
But also I want them to be ableto see, oh, this is an acf
location or, uh, you know,member cider, we have acf
certified chefs here, so thatthey know that they're walking
(21:14):
into a restaurant.
They can expect a certainstandard of product to come out
for it and feel safe.
You know.
Again, it's not just you know.
We put the health toad, youknow, up on the window or in the
newspaper so that people feelsafe.
You know there.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
But you know really you guys work hand inhand with
the health department at all.
Do you guys have a relationship?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
We do, we do some training with them as well.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, a couple members of our chapter are
health inspectors, and sometimesthat's the education they come
in and so who educates who more?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Does the health department update you or do you
update them?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
We're both in collaboration.
I know our health departmenthas, yeah, they have uh seminars
sometimes where they will talkto chefs about some of the food
codes and things like that.
I mean, of course, with the fda, you know they, they help uh
put it together.
But sometimes there is somecollaboration or they talk about
a certain change and how it'sgoing to affect people in the
actual restaurant industry.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And then how long until the change goes into
effect.
And sometimes they will come tous and say, hey, this is coming
, and that way it works for usto be able to use that
information.
So now, when people come tomeetings, hey, this is something
that's coming, maybe six monthsfrom now, but it's coming, and
that's another piece of theeducational piece of it months
from now, but it's coming andthat's another piece of the
(22:35):
educational piece of it.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So it's not.
So being in the acf or beingcertified is not a necessity,
but it's a very, very,absolutely esteemed thing
because it's knowledge if you'reholding something.
And it's again back to thepassion.
It shows that you have passionfor the industry you chose.
Yeah, and that's what.
That's what people more need tounderstand that it yes, of
course it's not a necessity.
We're not.
You're not trying to sell anecessity.
You're not trying to sell.
You're better than me, I haveit.
(22:57):
You don't.
You're trying to sell a visionof everyone working on the same
standard at the beginning.
Yes, absolutely.
Now, how you take that standardand how you produce it is your
business.
Yeah, but we all should startat the same foundation.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, we have the same standards and so you take
your same standards.
You're taking the scientifictechniques of cooking and things
like that, and then eachindividual chef is going to put
their artistry on top of thatand it's what you can make from
the artist's standpoint.
So it really is, you know, Ithink, science and art.
So the art is theindividualized part of it.
But you know there arestandards.
(23:30):
This is how you see her, thisis how you.
You know, do this and then youknow, take it from there.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
How do you recommend to the people listening or
watching?
How do you recommend that theygo the most easy?
You were saying it yourself andI said it too.
It is confusing.
Sitting here talking to you,gentlemen, has opened up my eyes
to everything that I actuallyjust closed the book on before I
was looking.
I don't have time for that.
I don't need that.
Why the hell do I need to dothat?
I don't need to do that.
But I'm you're telling me thatI got 90.
Well, you're telling me justfrom what you had the questions
(23:57):
I had I got 60 percent of italready done, probably even more
than that yeah, probably so soand now you're telling me that
my businesses can register tooit's, it's, it's, it's
certification.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It's not a gatekeeping kind of thing.
It's not out there to keeppeople out so others can be part
of it, just like you said.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's not elite organization.
No, it's not elite.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It's not gatekeeping.
We're not trying to keepanybody out.
We want everybody to getcertified because we want
everybody working from the samefield.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Certification is different than like competition,
because competition is youversus me.
Certification is.
This is the standard.
This is what we need you to be.
How can we help you?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
let's compete from.
There yeah now that we're hereand here and, okay, now we can
compete.
Yes, right, we both have theunderstanding, right?
Yeah, so it's a veryinteresting thing.
I'm really glad you got to sithere and talk to you guys about
this, because a lot of thepodcast itself we're dealing
with a lot of the actual in therestaurant, in your face, front
of the house, back of the housenonsense.
Absolutely we don't get totouch base on this because in my
(24:59):
area, to be honest with you, dosomething here.
We don't get enough of yourrepresentation there.
True, so maybe that's me, somaybe I'm speaking totally out
of line and it's fullyrepresented and I just yet
haven't exposed myself to it,right?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
The restaurant piece of it.
There's a lot ofeducation-based chefs in ACF and
a lot of restaurant chefs thatused to see the benefit in it.
A lot of them don't.
It is up to us to get them tore-look at the ACF and see what
the ACF looks like in 2024.
Looks a lot different than itdid 30, 40, 50 years ago.
(25:34):
And for restaurant chefs thathave lost interest like they're
not going to be able to doanything to help or enrich
anything.
Give us a second look and letus be the ones to show you that
things have changed, because ithas.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
So there is things you guys do to get together,
though you have annual events,I'm sure you have national
events and things.
Are any of these mandatory tobe at?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
or just all by choice ?
Mandatory no.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So you have just like in any organization, you have
the doers and you have the didsyeah, exactly, you know even
five people to do everything youknow, even I think he was
talking about the membership fee.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's like $200 a year or $235 or something.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, everything of an organization needs some sort
of monetary donation to keep itafloat.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, and so again, we take that money and then we
put it towards.
You know, each community oreach chapter puts it back into
their community.
So, we're doing things in ourcommunity with those monies.
And we have additionalfundraisers that we do to bring
in additional funds and we do alot of scholarships for high
(26:39):
school students.
Going into culinary students,we work with SkillsUSA at
ProStar, which are high schooland secondary culinary programs,
competitions and things, and wegive scholarships to those and
we help fund their trips tonationals.
Like the state winners, we givea grant to help them get to the
(27:01):
national level and pay forthose things.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
That was my next question.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
We want to mentor them, and some of our members
actually coach some of thoseteams.
If not directly coaching,they're mentoring them in some
way.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
What about any type of fundraising or food drives or
something?
Does that qualify anybody toget any more in there, or is
that not part of that?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
as far as becoming certified, oh yeah, again,
there's equivalents for abouteverything, so just being a part
of being on the board, beingelected to the board, gets you
certain points.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So basically what you're saying, like anywhere
else in the restaurant industrywork your ass off and the
benefits come.
Sit around, do nothing, you getnothing.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Just coming to a meeting will give you two
continuing education hours.
So if you hit, 12 meetings ayear, there's 24 continuing
education hours.
You know towards, you know.
So if you hit 12 meetings ayear, there's 24.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Right and as much as the industry changes.
Continuing education is soimportant, you know, because the
reality today is not what itwas six months ago.
So if you don't have somebodyconstantly tapped in to the
health department, to standards,to kitchens, you know you can
get left behind.
And I've had situations where Iwasn't as tapped in and got
(28:17):
left behind and that's why Iknew I needed to be connected to
something bigger than myself.
And the ACF is that, especiallythe ACF Indy chapter.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So to end this man, because we can keep on going,
I'm very interested in it, right, and I think what would you say
to people out there?
I'm very interested in it,right, and I think what would
you say to people out there?
I'm going to say this and thenI'll let you end it.
I'm going to say that the ACFagain may not be a necessity,
but it's definitely somethingyou should look into.
If you're in the restaurantindustry, if you're working
around people, if your hands aretouching people's food, if
(28:43):
you're responsible for theoutcome of someone.
Other than the pleasure part ofit, it's not all about the
pleasure.
It's not all about thebeautiful plate and the palette
and everything's so perfect.
It's not about the stars andthe golds and all the ratings.
It takes the safety of it firsttoo.
Because a lot of smallpercentage are winning awards.
The other ones are just servingfood, and it needs to be done
(29:05):
right.
So, acf, what do you guys sayas far as getting out there?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I would say reach out to your local chapter and if
you don't have a local chapter,reach out to the national
chapter.
Acfchefsorg is the national andyou can find all the local
chapters listed on theACFchefsorg website.
You can find local chapters.
It will have all their contactinformation.
So reach out to your localchapter.
Instagrams org website you canfind local chapters.
It'll have all their contactinformation um.
(29:29):
So reach out to your localinstagrams and yeah, and just
start talking to those chefs andseeing how you can get involved
and seeing how you can become apart of it awesome if we get
you to come to one acf meeting.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Anybody that is on the fence get come to one
meeting and and by the end of itI think you'll see the value.
And, like I said, it does notcost a dime to come to the
meeting, but you open your worldup to just a lot of support and
love from a local chapter thatis here to see you succeed.
Because, once the tide rises,all boats, and that's what we're
(30:05):
here to do.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
And I know we're ending, but I look at it like
you're going to chefs from we're.
You know we're all.
Some of them aren't even chefs,we just got food enthusiasts.
Sometimes they come, but you'regonna find chefs from all
different, uh, levels of theircareer all different sectors of
the culinary industry and you'rewe're learning from each other,
(30:27):
you know.
you know you're gonna learnsomething from the restaurant
chefs over here, the hotel chefsover here, the guy running the
hospital over here.
You know, there's so manydifferent facets.
That's great, and you're goingto learn from them and bring
something.
You can always get somethingfrom somebody else.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Well, this has been a pleasure talking to you guys,
and just again, another thing aBurr-Hance perspective wants to
bring to the table.
Everything has a way, everypart of the restaurant industry
is here and we like to talkabout it all, so thank you very
much.
Well, thanks for having me.
Keep doing what you're doingand ciao for now.
All right, thanks.
Hey, all right, here we are, we're back, we have some
good, we have some interestingguests today.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I know.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Something that's really cool, because a lot of
people in the restaurantindustry, especially chefs, more
or less don't get to see thisside of it, because the side of
it is the side that usually getsthe brunt of it right.
You guys get the shit end ofthe stick sometimes because you
put down the finger right,because someone has to hold
everybody accountable.
Come on, someone has to holdeverybody accountable, come on
here you are, and it's a greatthing.
So the ACF this is Dave, yeah.
(00:27):
Yep, jack, jack, thank you andwe have a great crew here, so
we're here at the World FoodChampionships and you guys are
crucial in overseeing this.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
As far as judgment things that are going on, give
us a little history on first ofall let's talk about the acf for
a minute, because let's talkabout that and then we'll get
into it.
Well, the acf is the americanculinary federation and the
national chapter was startedback in 1929.
(00:56):
Um, our local indianapolischapter was started in the early
70s, um, and as far as theamerican culinary federation
goes, one of the great thingsthat they did early on back in
the early 70s is reallypetitioning in Washington DC and
Congress and things to make thechef a profession instead of
just like a trade.
So they brought it into aprofessional organization.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Sure, and that is exactly what it is.
It is a profession, and with aprofession you need to have
standards, and the standards asfar as chefs are concerned,
typically in the kitchen, thestandard of execution is pretty
much where it ends From thatpoint all levels of execution to
the plate.
Well, what goes on behind thescenes is what a lot of people
take for granted.
All the temperature controls,the FIFO, all that stuff, all
(01:41):
these standards that come up,are regulated and introduced in
an educational platform.
We can't just learn it, youlearn it.
Of course, the people in thekitchen, on the streets learn it
, but they're learning a systemthat's been in place and you
guys help promote to educate.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
When you go out and have that fantastic restaurant
experience, it's becausesomebody like us is back there
to facilitate and make sure thathappens.
And a big part I'm Jack Lennon,if I didn't say a big part of
my initiative is certification.
So if you think about a chefcertification, if somebody's a
doctor, somebody's a lawyer, youwould hope that they've taken
(02:18):
some type of standardized test.
They went to some type ofschool to be able to certify
them to do that, and it's thesame in the chef world.
So I'm the indie certificationchair, so it is my job anybody
that wants any level ofcertification to lead them
through that process.
So there is a certificationthat starts with there's a
(02:41):
written and then there's apractical exam portion.
So somebody like me would helpyou through that process.
If you want to be a CEC, whichI am Certified Executive Chef,
all the way up to CMC, which isa Certified Master Chef, all the
way down to just a CertifiedCulinarian.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Somebody really just getting in and learning that
certification is a ticket.
Yep, absolutely, that's not onlya ticket, but it helps you do
things like this.
It helps you get involved.
And if you're just going tocook and not care about the
certificate, you're kind ofselling that idea short.
I'm not saying you're sellingyourself short because some
people might not have theexposure, but for people out
there who are cooking and notreally paying attention to it, a
(03:17):
certification is a certificateright.
It's to certify knowledge.
It's to certify knowledge.
So if you gain knowledge, youearn your certificate right.
So it's a guarantee that thatchef, chefs or no matter who it
is, has the knowledge it takesto not only be able to cook the
food but actually do it in a waythat's proper.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, it really shows like an employer.
If you're looking at two chefsand one's gone through
certification, the employer canlook back and figure out what
that standard is.
Is that they've gone throughand they know that a judging or
not a judging, but a a board, ifyou will has looked at them and
has said yes, they can do thesethings show the level of
(03:56):
commitment as well.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Level of commitment is huge.
So again, certifications.
Certification comes withknowledge, and commitment is
proved by knowledge too.
Knowledge comes with commitment.
You don't get all three ofthose together without one of
the other parts Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And there's different levels of certification too.
Just coming out of culinaryschool or apprenticeship program
, you've got a certifiedculinarian, which is the very
bottom part of yourcertification.
These standards you should knowhow to do these things, you
know, up to a certified souschef, certified chef de cuisine,
certified executive chef and ofcourse, we have the same in
pastry chef as well certifiedworking pastry chef, certified
(04:35):
executive pastry chef all thesame standards.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
So you guys are holding up the professional
explanation of the titleAbsolutely.
So we have chef is a chef is achef.
I say it all the time, chris,right, we say it all the time.
Anybody can call themselves achef.
Everybody can say, okay, I cookchicken wings, I'm this sports
bar chef.
Everybody says this.
They throw around the word soloosely that it's not even fair
(05:00):
sometimes.
So there are people who havegone through it and done the
work and put in and have thebrigades and teach and hold
people accountable.
And then you have the peoplewho just throw around the word
hey chef, hey chef, hey chef,pizza chef, pastry chef.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I look at it as almost like we've been peer
reviewed.
So peers, our peers, ourcolleagues have given us a
written test, giving us apractical exam that we've gone
through and we've physicallyshown them that we can do these
things.
And we've been peer-reviewedand we go forward and actually
Jack and I are both evaluators,so we actually go around and
(05:36):
actually evaluate others andpeer-review them so they can
earn their certification.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
And it's up to us to show that professionalism.
So if there is somebody that isnot certified or hasn't went
through, it's up to us to showwhat that standard looks like
regardless, and be an ambassadorfor the ACF and what it is we
do and why it's important.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
So if somebody's going through their
certification process or theirpractical exam and they're not
living up to the standard, we'renot shaming or anything like
that.
We want to make that a teachingopportunity and say, okay, the
standard's up here, this is abetter way to do it.
And then, you know, give themthe you know an opportunity to
come back.
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
So where do you guys register in the line of what
most is commonly in therestaurants across America, the
normal basic food handlers,managers and certificates and
handler cards and stuff.
Is that something you guysfocus on or do you leave that to
other entities or how does thatplay into your work?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
As far as sanitation and things like that, we don't
do anything with, I mean, otherthan our standard of sanitation.
But if you're getting yourServSafe, you know we leave that
up to other entities.
We don't.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
And that's part of the package.
So once you get certified, youwould have to be ServSafe
certified, because that's one ofthe criteria.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
So do you and ServSafe kind of work
hand-in-hand?
Yes, we do.
So you guys keep updating eachother on the new standards.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And Ivy Tech, like Ivy Tech, indy is a big part of
our program and that's wherethey are doing certification.
That's where they are doing thesurf safe certification.
So we got boots on the groundhere in indy, in the community
with ivy tech in the partnershipand they they do a lot with our
acf do you know how many peopleare handling?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I don't this is a rhetorical question, but do you
know how many people in theindustry are handling other
people's food and don't have acertificate of even the most
basic?
absolutely, yeah, food handlerscard yeah yeah, number one, most
essential part of wash yourhands.
They don't even have that part.
Yeah, you know, and I find itto be disturbing, especially in
(07:41):
a place that doesn't havesomebody to oversee.
Yeah, you know theprofessionalism.
So it's it's very importantthat these words get out,
because it's for people's safety.
Now there's going to be chefsout there that are listening to
this, this fucking dude.
Yeah, no, it's not.
It's.
It's true.
The more, the more, the moreresponsibilities I have yep by
the more restaurants I open andthe more employees I hire and
the more customers that rely onme and the more awards I win and
(08:03):
the more things I go after.
Yeah, it becomes more importantbecause now we have
accountability, that we need tobe held accountable.
So how we hold my people?
So I'm going to work my ass offto make sure my standard is
high.
What's left for the person atthe lowest who comes to work
with no passion?
They lost it six months ago.
(08:24):
You don't know it yet.
So these are in places for thatright.
The ACF is in places for thatright.
The ACF is in place for this.
It is.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
It's important to let people know that there's a lot
of space in between somebodythat says I want to be a
celebrity chef on the FoodNetwork and I'm working at a
dead end restaurant holding awall somewhere there's a lot of
space, bro.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
That's called a highway and there's a lot that
you can do within that highway.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
And a part of us is letting people know because when
you come to ACF meetings you'reworking with education chefs,
some restaurant chefs.
I'm a chef that's in sales.
I sell food for a living.
You know whether you're anassistant living chef, so you
get a chance to meet a lot ofdifferent chefs and now we're
(09:10):
having that conversation.
Like all of our meetings areeducation based.
So every time you come to ACFmeeting there is an educational
component.
So one meeting I may be talkingabout speed scratch with
Affinity Group and showing ourproducts and how speed scratch
can help in your kitchen.
Another meeting might be doingurban foraging and talking about
(09:31):
you know people that foragemushrooms around.
So each meeting there's aneducational component and it
does not cost to come tomeetings.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
So if you were to tell somebody I asked you this
question myself so if you wereto talk to somebody about this,
a lot of people get intimidatedby the one factor, one factor
only.
No one has time anymore to goto school or get the
certifications to programs.
If you have 300 hours ofschooling, is there something in
place?
What do you recommend forsomebody who didn't go to school
but yet they've been in theindustry for 20, 30 years?
(10:03):
They are absolutely anexecutive chef, maybe even more.
You know.
The only difference betweenthat and the master is the
certifications.
So what do you recommend tothat person?
Like me, there's a certainamount of well, the list it out.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
So a lot of experience goes into gaining
your points quote unquotetowards education.
But there's online courses thatwe could take and the ACF kind
of lays it out a 30-hour courseon sanitation which is going to
be your serve set.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Are there any of these?
Okay, good to know.
So a food manager's card, Ibelieve, is 30 hours of work.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Is going to take care of that.
Another one would be help meout on another one, but it's
going to be some kind ofbusiness management.
30 hours.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say business
workforce supervision and italso depends on the level.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
So if we're looking at a CEC, it's going to have
these, but the great thing aboutmoving up on those levels is
everything kind of carries over.
So by the time, if you startright out of culinary school
looking for your CC, you'regoing to get that.
And then just not very longlater, you know, once you take
this next course or you get theexperience points you're going
(11:12):
to be able to test for your CFD.
So really in actuality.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Like you just said, it's important to know this.
So you come out of school andyou already get something
because you have the educationalhours there to get you in?
Yes, Now, the crucial part nowis the experience side is
actually harder to get than thefrigging schooling, yes.
So a guy like me who might becomplaining a little bit about
oh man, I got to go to 30 hoursinstead of the other Well, the
(11:36):
other person who's already gotthose has to go through 10 years
of work.
Yep, yep, yep Of experience.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
It's almost the chicken or the egg.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Which one?
Speaker 2 (11:44):
should you have.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
But what I would say is for somebody that is getting
in the industry and maybe youdidn't go to school, there's
equivalence.
Getting in the industry andmaybe you didn't go to school,
there's equivalence.
The acf is going to look.
They're going to look at, uh,just as far as what, what you've
done in industry, if you haveany certifications, how many
hours, how many people you'vemanaged all of that goes in.
So it's not a situation whereif you don't have an associate's
(12:08):
degree, you can't get certified.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
There's equivalence built into it, and it must be,
because the the industry is waytoo big to funnel it to just
somebody who graduated school.
The industry that's a smallpercentage of the industry.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
So we say instead of like a supervisory, you need
30-hour supervisory.
Instead of taking a 30-hourcourse, maybe you sat through a
two-hour lecture over here andyou got two hours here and you
got three hours here.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
You can put 10 things together that are going to
equal that 30 hours, that now,that puts that together I'm just
being.
I'm just being uh, no,absolutely getting here.
So if, if I'm a chef and I have30 employees and I'm
award-winning chef, youobviously did that with a team.
Doesn't that, right there,signify that you obviously know
how to lead a kitchen, or itdoes?
Speaker 3 (12:54):
and that that's factored in.
Like they ask you how manyemployees have you been
responsible for?
Sure and that factors into itas well, because that shows that
you already have thatleadership and that you can lead
a team and like, if you like,let's say you want a medal, uh,
some culinary medal through anacf sponsor event, that is
(13:14):
equivalent to.
So all of that factors in, soit's not pigeon hailed to one
way to get it it all back.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
If you've written articles for a magazine, or if
you've sure taught, or if you'veuh, lectured or talked, you
know all that stuff countstowards.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So let's use me as an example if I, if I won Chef of
the Year for 2024 from theVirginia Restaurant and
Hospitality Commission.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
There's some kind of equivalence for it.
There's some kind ofequivalence there.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
So these are important things for people to
know.
So people just look at the.
They look at the like the buglight.
They see.
They look down the tunnel ofschool, school, school, school,
this.
I'm gone, so there's a lot moreto look at here.
So does the ACF, if I were togo on their website or anything
like that.
And you're talking about whatyou just educated me on food
managers card.
Okay, that's good knowledge.
(14:02):
I didn't realize that A lot ofpeople have that.
They don't even know they'realready part of that.
Is there a list of schools orthings that equivalent?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Not only there's the list of everything the basic
requirements for education andwork related.
It's all listed there.
But ACF has them.
Let me make sure it's 123Chef.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
So there's a link from our ACF website to 123Chef,
which actually has links to allof the 30-hour online courses
that you can do.
That's good to know, andthere's a lot of free courses on
there, too, there's a lot offree courses.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
You read about avocados and take a small test.
That's an hour, maybe an houror 30 minutes.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
At the end of the day , it's all about the tip, and if
you're doing it through thatsite, it must be collecting its
own data Absolutely, and thenthey'll tell you right into
which one?
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Yeah, once you get those certificates, you're
turning them into the ACF.
I'll do a shout-out to Kiwi,who's the one on the other end
of the e-mails when you turnthose things in and they keep
track of everything and then onthe site or on your personal
site on the ACF, you can lookand see where you are on your
continuing education and whatyou still need.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Sure, this is great knowledge.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
Yeah, it's a great resource, a lot of people, I'm
going to be at my level ofchefing in the restaurant.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I'm not in the acf, yeah, but I'm going to tell you
this I'm, I'm, so I'm a leveltwo wine, so I'm.
Because I have to do that, thatcounts.
You know what I mean.
So I count, yeah, your beverage.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Your everything's going to be taken care of there.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
You know level one, sorry, level one, yeah, but but
that counts there.
So, yeah, um, now what I haveis, if I go do this and advocate
for it, be an advocate of itbecause I want to see for myself
, absolutely.
It's not only to get thecertification.
I'm doing fine with that.
My restaurants are great, myname is Nate, my teams are great
.
That's not the point.
The point is is I'm an advocatefor the actual learning and the
(15:49):
educational part of it.
The older I get, the moreexperience I get.
I'm realizing the value ofeducation because, as people who
pay, we end up losing the money.
Yes, whether we get fined, orwhether we lose people, or
whether we're losing product ortemperature damage, or first in,
first out is not proper timeexposure.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
One foodborne illness will set you right.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Foodborne illness.
All this stuff is veryimportant, yeah, so I am going
to take this challenge and I'mgoing to go back, I'm going to
get you, I'm going to stay incontact with you guys, if you
don't mind.
Now you're stuck.
See, now I hooked you.
That's what I like.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
You have the two restaurants, so we also have
property memberships, which thenlets all the people working for
you come on as members.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
See, this is all knowledge.
You know I'm not going to saythis in the wrong way.
I hope I'm not saying it wrong,but this all should be exposed
further.
This should be much more putout there.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
This is the start of that process.
Being at events like this to beable to talk about this because
a lot of it is kind of I don'twant to say it's a secret, but
it's a secret but it's internal.
We know this and now it's usreaching out and coming to do
events like this so we can tellpeople what the ACF is, how to
(17:01):
get involved locally.
Right now we're really tryingto get as many members as we
possibly can and a lot of peopledon't know.
You don't have to pay to cometo an ACF meeting.
Now.
There's a fee once you decidethat you would like to become a
member.
But to come to an ACF meetingit is absolutely free and you
get to see what the resourcesyou get to talk to all of the
(17:24):
chefs Once a month.
We all get together at a place.
There's always food involved.
There's always educationinvolved, because, at the end of
the day, continuing educationis the lifeblood of this
industry and it's networking.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But, you know, one of the biggest things we try to
focus on in our local chapter aswell, because we do have a
really good partnership with IvyTech, which is a culinary
program.
We try to stay connected withour high school level culinary
programs and our college levelculinary programs and and mentor
the younger culinarians into it.
And then, you know, talk tothem about the return on
(18:00):
investment of becoming an ACFmember.
You know, it's not just network, it is networking, but it's
it's mentorship and learning andbeing able to reach out to
people to ask questions and andthings like that.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
So it and and then also holding each other
accountable jumping on platformslike this that didn't exist 10
years ago so quickly.
This is also a good platformfor us, and this is what the
burnt hands perspective is aboutis reaching out to every facet
of the restaurant or a foodservice in the industry people,
yeah, and that's what this isabout.
So I'm now challenged.
Just from being here thisweekend, I've already committed
(18:36):
to having to go to Boston.
I've got to go to SouthCarolina to do a shoot now and
learn about some South Carolinastuff, and now I've got to get
ACF certified and we're going toSt Thomas and St Croix for
another shot.
This is amazing networking,right?
Yeah, so if somebody wants togo, do it.
I live in Tidewater area.
I know Hampton Roads, virginia,virginia Beach area.
(18:56):
So if you want to get ACFcertified, what do you recommend
to these people?
Do they go to their localchapter and reach out to them?
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I would start with the local chapter.
Some chapters are more activethan others.
Hopefully, your local chapteris very active.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Can I get a hall pass and just go directly to?
Speaker 2 (19:13):
you guys?
Hell yeah, so you can join.
You can join any chapter.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, we'd love to have you.
One reason why I became acertification chair was because
in getting certified there wasso many questions that I had
about the process and, like Isaid, sometimes there can be
some element of confusion and Iwanted to fix that.
So once I got certified I saidI don't want anybody to ever
feel like I felt, um, you knowjust the anxiety of am I doing
(19:42):
this right?
Is this the what, this what Ishould be doing?
Is this the right book I shouldbe studying?
I don't ever want anybody to gothrough that.
So I became the certificationchair.
Right, I can be the change thatI.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Is that certification chair just for your chapter, or
is that for national chapter,that's for our chapter, but
every chapter has a branch ofcertification, and you guys
reach out to each other whenneed be.
So you're going to pull a plug.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You're going to plug me in there, absolutely, and if
there's ever anybody that needsthat and that's always my call
to action Because some peopledon't have the support when
they're trying to get certified,and because they don't have
that support, they may go for itand fail, whereas there are
small things that they probablycould have did and been
(20:26):
certified.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So we're here live at the show.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
Yeah, it's going great.
Look it's wild.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Right now they're dropping food, so there's a lot
of cheering going on, you knowone of the other things about as
we continue to get the word outabout the ACF or re-get the
word out about the ACF.
You know, consumers and patronsof restaurants and hotels and
things like that, you know.
I'd like to really see themunderstand what the acf and our
(20:53):
standard is, so that whenthey're making a decision on
where to go eat uh, you know,just like you know they're going
to see your health code, youknow grade up in the window of
the restaurant say, okay, thisis a good place.
But also I want them to be ableto see, oh, this is an acf
location or, uh, you know,member cider, we have acf
certified chefs here, so thatthey know that they're walking
(21:14):
into a restaurant.
They can expect a certainstandard of product to come out
for it and feel safe.
You know.
Again, it's not just you know.
We put the health toad, youknow, up on the window or in the
newspaper so that people feelsafe.
You know there.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
But you know really you guys work hand inhand with
the health department at all.
Do you guys have a relationship?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
We do, we do some training with them as well.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, a couple members of our chapter are
health inspectors, and sometimesthat's the education they come
in and so who educates who more?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Does the health department update you or do you
update them?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
We're both in collaboration.
I know our health departmenthas, yeah, they have uh seminars
sometimes where they will talkto chefs about some of the food
codes and things like that.
I mean, of course, with the fda, you know they, they help uh
put it together.
But sometimes there is somecollaboration or they talk about
a certain change and how it'sgoing to affect people in the
actual restaurant industry.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And then how long until the change goes into
effect.
And sometimes they will come tous and say, hey, this is coming
, and that way it works for usto be able to use that
information.
So now, when people come tomeetings, hey, this is something
that's coming, maybe six monthsfrom now, but it's coming, and
that's another piece of theeducational piece of it months
from now, but it's coming andthat's another piece of the
(22:35):
educational piece of it.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
So it's not.
So being in the acf or beingcertified is not a necessity,
but it's a very, very,absolutely esteemed thing
because it's knowledge if you'reholding something.
And it's again back to thepassion.
It shows that you have passionfor the industry you chose.
Yeah, and that's what.
That's what people more need tounderstand that it yes, of
course it's not a necessity.
We're not.
You're not trying to sell anecessity.
You're not trying to sell.
You're better than me, I haveit.
(22:57):
You don't.
You're trying to sell a visionof everyone working on the same
standard at the beginning.
Yes, absolutely.
Now, how you take that standardand how you produce it is your
business.
Yeah, but we all should startat the same foundation.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, we have the same standards and so you take
your same standards.
You're taking the scientifictechniques of cooking and things
like that, and then eachindividual chef is going to put
their artistry on top of thatand it's what you can make from
the artist's standpoint.
So it really is, you know, Ithink, science and art.
So the art is theindividualized part of it.
But you know there arestandards.
(23:30):
This is how you see her, thisis how you.
You know, do this and then youknow, take it from there.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
How do you recommend to the people listening or
watching?
How do you recommend that theygo the most easy?
You were saying it yourself andI said it too.
It is confusing.
Sitting here talking to you,gentlemen, has opened up my eyes
to everything that I actuallyjust closed the book on before I
was looking.
I don't have time for that.
I don't need that.
Why the hell do I need to dothat?
I don't need to do that.
But I'm you're telling me thatI got 90.
Well, you're telling me justfrom what you had the questions
(23:57):
I had I got 60 percent of italready done, probably even more
than that yeah, probably so soand now you're telling me that
my businesses can register tooit's, it's, it's, it's
certification.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
It's not a gatekeeping kind of thing.
It's not out there to keeppeople out so others can be part
of it, just like you said.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
It's not elite organization.
No, it's not elite.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
It's not gatekeeping.
We're not trying to keepanybody out.
We want everybody to getcertified because we want
everybody working from the samefield.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Certification is different than like competition,
because competition is youversus me.
Certification is.
This is the standard.
This is what we need you to be.
How can we help you?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
let's compete from.
There yeah now that we're hereand here and, okay, now we can
compete.
Yes, right, we both have theunderstanding, right?
Yeah, so it's a veryinteresting thing.
I'm really glad you got to sithere and talk to you guys about
this, because a lot of thepodcast itself we're dealing
with a lot of the actual in therestaurant, in your face, front
of the house, back of the housenonsense.
Absolutely we don't get totouch base on this because in my
(24:59):
area, to be honest with you, dosomething here.
We don't get enough of yourrepresentation there.
True, so maybe that's me, somaybe I'm speaking totally out
of line and it's fullyrepresented and I just yet
haven't exposed myself to it,right?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
The restaurant piece of it.
There's a lot ofeducation-based chefs in ACF and
a lot of restaurant chefs thatused to see the benefit in it.
A lot of them don't.
It is up to us to get them tore-look at the ACF and see what
the ACF looks like in 2024.
Looks a lot different than itdid 30, 40, 50 years ago.
(25:34):
And for restaurant chefs thathave lost interest like they're
not going to be able to doanything to help or enrich
anything.
Give us a second look and letus be the ones to show you that
things have changed, because ithas.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
So there is things you guys do to get together,
though you have annual events,I'm sure you have national
events and things.
Are any of these mandatory tobe at?
Speaker 2 (25:55):
or just all by choice ?
Mandatory no.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So you have just like in any organization, you have
the doers and you have the didsyeah, exactly, you know even
five people to do everything youknow, even I think he was
talking about the membership fee.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
It's like $200 a year or $235 or something.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Well, everything of an organization needs some sort
of monetary donation to keep itafloat.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, and so again, we take that money and then we
put it towards.
You know, each community oreach chapter puts it back into
their community.
So, we're doing things in ourcommunity with those monies.
And we have additionalfundraisers that we do to bring
in additional funds and we do alot of scholarships for high
(26:39):
school students.
Going into culinary students,we work with SkillsUSA at
ProStar, which are high schooland secondary culinary programs,
competitions and things, and wegive scholarships to those and
we help fund their trips tonationals.
Like the state winners, we givea grant to help them get to the
(27:01):
national level and pay forthose things.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
That was my next question.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
We want to mentor them, and some of our members
actually coach some of thoseteams.
If not directly coaching,they're mentoring them in some
way.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
What about any type of fundraising or food drives or
something?
Does that qualify anybody toget any more in there, or is
that not part of that?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
as far as becoming certified, oh yeah, again,
there's equivalents for abouteverything, so just being a part
of being on the board, beingelected to the board, gets you
certain points.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
So basically what you're saying, like anywhere
else in the restaurant industrywork your ass off and the
benefits come.
Sit around, do nothing, you getnothing.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Just coming to a meeting will give you two
continuing education hours.
So if you hit, 12 meetings ayear, there's 24 continuing
education hours.
You know towards, you know.
So if you hit 12 meetings ayear, there's 24.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Right and as much as the industry changes.
Continuing education is soimportant, you know, because the
reality today is not what itwas six months ago.
So if you don't have somebodyconstantly tapped in to the
health department, to standards,to kitchens, you know you can
get left behind.
And I've had situations where Iwasn't as tapped in and got
(28:17):
left behind and that's why Iknew I needed to be connected to
something bigger than myself.
And the ACF is that, especiallythe ACF Indy chapter.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So to end this man, because we can keep on going,
I'm very interested in it, right, and I think what would you say
to people out there?
I'm very interested in it,right, and I think what would
you say to people out there?
I'm going to say this and thenI'll let you end it.
I'm going to say that the ACFagain may not be a necessity,
but it's definitely somethingyou should look into.
If you're in the restaurantindustry, if you're working
around people, if your hands aretouching people's food, if
(28:43):
you're responsible for theoutcome of someone.
Other than the pleasure part ofit, it's not all about the
pleasure.
It's not all about thebeautiful plate and the palette
and everything's so perfect.
It's not about the stars andthe golds and all the ratings.
It takes the safety of it firsttoo.
Because a lot of smallpercentage are winning awards.
The other ones are just servingfood, and it needs to be done
(29:05):
right.
So, acf, what do you guys sayas far as getting out there?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
I would say reach out to your local chapter and if
you don't have a local chapter,reach out to the national
chapter.
Acfchefsorg is the national andyou can find all the local
chapters listed on theACFchefsorg website.
You can find local chapters.
It will have all their contactinformation.
So reach out to your localchapter.
Instagrams org website you canfind local chapters.
It'll have all their contactinformation um.
(29:29):
So reach out to your localinstagrams and yeah, and just
start talking to those chefs andseeing how you can get involved
and seeing how you can become apart of it awesome if we get
you to come to one acf meeting.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Anybody that is on the fence get come to one
meeting and and by the end of itI think you'll see the value.
And, like I said, it does notcost a dime to come to the
meeting, but you open your worldup to just a lot of support and
love from a local chapter thatis here to see you succeed.
Because, once the tide rises,all boats, and that's what we're
(30:05):
here to do.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
And I know we're ending, but I look at it like
you're going to chefs from we're.
You know we're all.
Some of them aren't even chefs,we just got food enthusiasts.
Sometimes they come, but you'regonna find chefs from all
different, uh, levels of theircareer all different sectors of
the culinary industry and you'rewe're learning from each other,
(30:27):
you know.
you know you're gonna learnsomething from the restaurant
chefs over here, the hotel chefsover here, the guy running the
hospital over here.
You know, there's so manydifferent facets.
That's great, and you're goingto learn from them and bring
something.
You can always get somethingfrom somebody else.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Well, this has been a pleasure talking to you guys,
and just again, another thing aBurr-Hance perspective wants to
bring to the table.
Everything has a way, everypart of the restaurant industry
is here and we like to talkabout it all, so thank you very
much.
Well, thanks for having me.
Keep doing what you're doingand ciao for now.
All right, thanks.
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