April 4, 2025 • 29 mins
Chef Thomas Melvin's culinary evolution represents the transformative power of rediscovering creativity after years of corporate style restaurant management. Chef Melvin shares how his journey through high-end steakhouses both built his technical foundation and temporarily dampened his creative spirit.
We go behind the scenes of managing a 12-foot open flame grill during peak service, where two chefs might prepare 200+ steaks with precision across four temperature zones. Melvin's meticulous approach to quality control extended beyond cooking to sourcing, aging protocols, and maintaining consistency across multiple restaurant locations. This high-pressure environment taught him invaluable lessons about business operations while simultaneously creating a hunger for more personal expression.
When Melvin eventually took over Vita in Indianapolis, something remarkable happened. The James Beard semifinalist (recognized in both 2022 and 2024) found his authentic culinary voice. As Chef Tony notes, it's the smallest details—like a perfectly crisp, expertly seasoned leek—that reveal Melvin's exceptional talent and renewed passion. This attentiveness extends beyond the plate to the restaurant's clockwork service patterns and overall atmosphere.
Throughout our conversation, Chef Melvin emphasizes the importance of respecting culinary traditions while finding your own path. He passionately advocates for mentorship through organizations like the American Culinary Federation, lamenting how many young chefs miss opportunities to learn from established professionals. His story reminds us that mastery requires both technical discipline and creative freedom—a delicate balance he's now achieved at Vita in Indianapolis.
Have you experienced a moment when your professional journey required rediscovering what originally sparked your passion? We'd love to hear your story.
If you are in Indy Vida is a MUST DO on the list! Make a reservation and learn more here: https://www.vida-restaurant.com/
Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/vida.restaurant
https://www.instagram.com/thomas.e.melvin/
You will not regreat the experience of dining in this amazing establishment and the attention to detail and service is amazing. ENJOY!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Listen up here.
The restaurant industry isgrueling and unpredictable, just
like this show.
From the front of the house tothe back of the house and all in
between, we will turn up theheat, you turn up the volume.
I'm Chef Antonio Caruana.
Welcome to the Tell All Podcastat Burnt Hands Perspective.
Alright, chef Thomas Melvin,thank you for being here with us
.
We are here at Burnt HandsPerspective to come back to Indy
(00:22):
.
We had to come back to Indybecause Indy brought us so much
freaking joy and we had thisopportunity to come back.
The ACF brought us back here.
Actually, your restaurantbrought us back here meeting you
.
The initial time we had a veryshort conversation, as most
chefs do.
So here it is.
This is what I do.
We spoke about this earlier, sothe fun part is we go into
another city.
Of course it's a chef podcastor a restaurant industry podcast
(00:44):
.
So what I do first as a chefwhether I'm coming here or not,
right, and I'm looking for wherethe hell am I going to go eat?
Bottom line, I will base awhole vacation around where I'm
going to go eat right?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yes, I'm trying to.
I'm trying to train my familyto do the same thing.
So when I travel solo, it'seasy.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
But like so for real, like if I go to jamaica, for
instance, I don't know nothingabout really what's going on in
jamaica.
They could be rock climbing,zip lining cool, we'll figure
all that out.
Yeah, first we got nowhere toeat.
Yeah, usually as people go,let's go rock climbing, zip
lining and maybe we'll find arestaurant.
Nah, is that how you?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
are too.
As a chef, I am exactly likethat cool.
Um, we, we took a vacation tosaint martin with a group of
friends, right, and I got kindof some flack because I was
doing just that.
They were like stop trying tolook at our next meal.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
We haven't even eaten breakfast yet, yes, but that's
the way, man, you got someItalian in you, I think
Somewhere along the line.
Irish-German.
Okay, well, there's Italian inthere somewhere.
I don't care what anybody says.
So you eating habits of that.
So I'm always looking for thenext meal before.
So, okay, I got.
Breakfast was situatedyesterday.
Now breakfast, I'm going totake my time and think about
lunch, right, so you have atremendous history behind you.
(01:54):
You've worked at some of thebest places, opened some of the
best places one of the chophouses, the prime saga, right,
yeah, how big is that chain?
How big is that?
I don't even want to call thata chain, that network.
How big is that chain?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
how big is?
I don't even call that a chain,that network.
How big is that network?
So that was an interesting timeof my career.
Um I joined, uh, whatoriginally was moza place for
steaks, um based out ofmilwaukee.
Um they opened a location inindy.
Um I I came aboard in thelocation in indy.
My time in milwaukee has nowbeen I thought about this the
other day um it's been nowprobably 15 years since I've
(02:27):
been here.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Oh okay, I love this.
So a lot has changed.
Have you spent a lot of time inMilwaukee?
No, I have not spent any.
You need to go to Milwaukee.
So I have an employee thatworks for me, Patrick, what's up
?
Patrick Big shout out.
He's actually standing there asa manager scene.
I guess there's a good littleItalian scene there as well.
However, carry on.
So you go back to the Milwaukee?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yes, so I joined this group.
The original owner branched out, opened a location in Indy in a
beautiful building, oldbuilding.
That was a majestic buildingbuilt in 1898.
A lot of history.
It was an old oxygen company.
Anyway, opened it beautifulrestaurant.
Like it was exciting I had justseparated from somewhere else
(03:10):
and took the opportunity.
And when I did I took it and Iran and I was given opportunity
to either fail or succeed.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Where were you in your career at this point?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So I had just left a chef de cuisine position at a
hotel, okay, and so I came overand they didn't think I could do
it because it was.
I mean, it's a steakhouse weall in with our private rooms
and everything.
I mean we're talking 275, 350seats, you know so it's not At a
clip.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah Per sitting, yeah Per serving.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, so it's not a small thing, right.
So they didn't know if I coulddo it.
Yeah, per sitting.
Yeah Per serving.
Yeah, so it's not a small thing, right.
So they didn't know if I coulddo it.
Sure, I had to prove myself,but like I said, and what was
the fare?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Was that steaks, or was that just kind of Americano?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
No, it was steakhouse .
Okay, classic steakhouse, wow.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So now you're changing, for don't know, you're
changing the whole game.
Right now you're talking about250 steaks oh yeah we're not
talking about 250 alfredos orsome nonsense on an open air
grill this is old school.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
How big was this grill man?
I was 12 feet.
12 foot grill.
12 foot open air grill um, not,not the the deck that grills we
have.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Now that I'm not saying they're easy I'm not
saying no, but they are a littlebit more concentrated, so it
works yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, so it was my individuals, and a lot of times
I would put myself on grill whenwe, you know, on Big Ten, you
know, and things like that, thatcome into town, super Bowl,
when it was there, sure, yeah,yeah, yeah, crazy, crazy time.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You have to, but it was a skill that you know.
On an open-air 12-foot grill,you're working four different
temperatures, which means yourflames are at four different
areas.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What about medium, rare, plus?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, allthat, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So we'll get to that in a minute.
We'll get to that in a minute.
So if we have, let's say youhave 12 feet, you have all these
.
How many people are on thegrill working?
How many men and women areworking?
Two, two, two.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Two, two on the busiest night, two when we're
triple sold out and if it's anormal night, one.
So you split the grill in halfwith your temperatures, you got
your mediums, your medium-raised, or you just run it all one
time.
You know, you know, no, yes,you section it off.
And you know, because when youare crazy busy you have to know
(05:24):
that, okay, anything that's overhere, whether it be a ribeye,
whether it be a strip orwhatever it is like, whatever it
is, that's my mid rares, right,that's my mid rares.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Let's watch them, let's yeah because if you're
just throwing everything onthere, and at this point is
you're not thermometer andyou're touching, you're going
off.
Touch.
Everything's just going for itand how's?
No doubt.
And how many are coming back?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Not a lot.
Good, not a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay, so that's cool.
That's good content right thereEvery once in a while.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
But you know, for, let's say, 100 steaks maybe two.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay, now what you're cooking.
This is interesting.
I'm liking this already, bro,because what you're cooking now
and what we'll later here in theshow here Completely different,
completely different, anddefinitely not from the same
mold.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh no, so not even the same mold.
So let's keep going.
No, but I don't want todiscount it, right?
No, you?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
can't.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So I spent eight years of my career and my life
with fine dining steakhouses.
Through that I opened multiplevenues.
We eventually took over the onein Milwaukee, so we had
Milwaukee.
We had Indianapolis.
We opened one in Carmel,indiana, which is where you're
at right now, and this was stillthe Moe's name.
(06:33):
So there was a transitional timeof when we were growing that it
went from Moe's to Prime Gotcha.
That's what I wanted to knowwhen the Prime came.
But it's the same entity, newownership kind of deal, right.
And then we started branchingout.
Gotcha Opened a new one, wentto Cincinnati as well Cool.
And I was overseeing all thatand trying to find chefs to run
(06:55):
them all.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
At this time?
Were you married, kids oranything?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
like that.
I was with my wife.
We were not married at thattime, so she stuck to it.
Good, not married at that time,so she stuck to it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Good, she stuck.
I am blessed.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I am blessed I found the woman that is for me and you
know she yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
She stuck with me and all that.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
That's good.
No kids at the time, so thatthat's probably what saves us
being together, because we hadreally tough.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
It is.
It changes everything.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, there were times when I would wake up in
Milwaukee.
Right, I had a place inMilwaukee that when I'd oversee
that, so I'd wake up there, I'ddrive down, hit up Carmel, check
in, go to Indy, check in, endmy day in Cincinnati, and that
was my day, yeah, and so youknow it was a lot.
It was a lot and so, like I said, I'm blessed that she was there
(07:44):
with me the whole way and stuckthrough it, because it's not
easy, but I did that for eightyears in my career and it was
great, but it's different.
It's different and it taught mea lot about the business, right
, right.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Because at that point .
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It's a fine dining steakhouse.
You're not changing the menuevery week, right, and so you're
fine tuning things.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And there's a numbers game involved big time.
Because it's a steakhouse,proteins are much more expensive
, there's a lot less room forloss on all levels.
Everything's higher end,whether they like it or not.
Your wines are bigger, yourlinens bills are crazy.
Everything about it is anotherlevel of learning because it's
more corporate mindset to keepthem numbers in check.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Even, even the sourcing, the meats right,
because we want the best of thebest.
So it's like.
But also we're running abusiness and we want to get the
best price we can.
So it's like developing thosedeals and locking those in and
and knowing that we're going tohave quality product for our
guests.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Sure.
Not, you know and and and, withall that in that whole network.
You need an abundance of it tostay consistent.
Oh yeah, to make sure this oneis like this one and that one's
like this one and this is also.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Let me.
I don't mean to interrupt, no,you're not.
But, you know, it's a time whenwe cut all our own steaks.
We weren't buying packaged.
Sure, you had a bone saw in thekitchen, we were cutting
everything.
So you know, I mean we hadstorage, we had to have storage
for all of it.
And we aged on site, like therewas a speck that all of the
ranchers knew and when theywould butcher it, like here's a
(09:12):
speck, age it this much.
But then when we got it we alsowet aged it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So, yeah, so a normal cut.
So you're going to cut yourribs up or your strip or
whatever, and you're going toleave your whole strip.
You're going to age that,typically, you had an aging
walk-in.
Were you talking 20 days, 22days, before you got into them,
or?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
something on the wet age At the time it was 31 to 35
days is what I expect all ourchefs to do.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
On the wet age.
Yeah, did you do dry aging backthen.
Dry aging.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I actually sourced somebody else to do it, because
a dry aging room is a wholenother thing.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
It's another.
You need another mechanic forthat.
Yeah, I'm going through thatnow.
I source mine, I source thebeef and the dry ager and all
that, but it's it's important todo it right, yeah, and I don't
think we can consistently do itright while we're putting out
the product because goodcollaboration, a good team
effort.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So you're at prime 47 , which is a big thing.
We've.
We've been there and you wentfrom that, so you helped with
that growth in eight years, soyou're responsible for what most
people in this area considerpart of their life.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Um cause I'm kind of torn on that right.
There's some people that arestill tied to Prime that I love.
They're great people and I will, I will, I'll do anything for
them.
You know they're, they're likefamily, but also, as you
probably know, with restaurantsthat you've been a part of and
then you separate.
Sometimes it pains you right Tosee, sometimes, the direction
(10:40):
of some of the locations and howthey go.
It happens, you know, ithappens.
Not everybody holds themselvesto excellence and sometimes
that's that hurts.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, no, I can get it.
I won't even go there, but Iunderstand what you're.
I totally understand whatyou're saying.
It happens in my ownrestaurants now that if a dish
goes out wrong and if I'mcooking in one and at the other
one, I get a complaint.
But there that if a dish goesout wrong and if I'm cooking in
one and at the other one, I geta complaint.
But there's only so much we cando.
I mean, life is life andreality is reality At some point
in time.
Now you're at Vita, which is atotally different ballgame, a
(11:16):
totally different.
I would consider that we canget into that, because you have
recognition from James Beard acouple of times.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, 22 and 24.
Semifinalist or finalist?
Semifinalist yeah, I wasn'table to win the whole thing.
Maybe next year, maybe, but youknow what If?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
you keep going with consistency, it's only a matter
of time.
I went to your restaurant.
I travel the world.
I travel looking for multiplethings.
A lot of them is everythingfrom the Michelin style of the
molecular cooking, which reallyisn't my forte as far as cooking
for sure, and it's not my fortein cooking because it's not
(11:50):
really my forte in eating either, and I cannot just connect with
the passion.
Now I do, however, go once ayear to Italy and work with a
couple of Michelin friends so Ican stay relevant in the
knowledge of it.
I don't want to make a falseaccusation that I just don't
like it.
It's not that I don't like it,it just doesn't get into my soul
, right.
I follow, yeah, I think, beardmyself judges on a much more
(12:13):
close-to-home system of my styleof cooking or my style of
restaurateuring, which is morepassionate, more organic, and
maybe that's because it's anAmerican system, right, but it
is an amazing system and I canrelate to it more.
So when I see James Beardson befinalist or finalist or
awardees or whatever, I have amuch more.
(12:37):
I'm much more excited aboutthat.
You see what I'm sayingMichelin is Michelin is Michelin
.
That's cool, it's great, butit's almost out of my realm
because it's not in mywheelhouse of interest.
Yeah, deep down inside, when Ieat that style of food, it's fun
, but it's not in me, right?
Sure Don't know that that'sjust me.
So go ahead, be mad at me allyou like, that's just the way it
(12:59):
is.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I think with anything , though, even the Michelin
level, there's levels to that.
Of course, I think some of themcan resonate, and other ones
just feel a different way.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Sure, the artists and the chefs who are doing it, I
have nothing but respect, forthey are literally doing their
damn thing to that level.
That's amazing to me, becausethey're following their passion,
just like I am mine and you areyours.
So kudos to them.
And, like I said, I'm nottelling you I dislike it at all.
I just know where my passionslie when I sit down and eat a
(13:31):
plate of food.
That's just what moves me.
Now, why am I saying this?
I went to your restaurant withthe level of expectation of what
I read.
I followed you a little bitbefore I went, meaning I looked
into your thing, just becauseI'm not because I'm trying to
judge, but I just want to.
I'm interested now.
Oh wow, look at this.
Oh wow, look at this.
Huh, this is interesting, cool,wow, this might be pretty good.
(13:52):
You know Well, it was wellabove good.
I was something you did withsomething, the most simple thing
, small.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I wish I could pinpoint it for you.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I've changed the menu probably no less than 30 times
since you've been here.
Of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It was just a detail.
It was just a detail that mostpeople wouldn't have noticed.
I don't know if it was crisp, Ilove that it was detailed.
It was a leak.
It was a simple freaking leak.
Okay, oh, okay, yes, that waswhen we had the scallop dish on
the menu.
Yes, it was just a simple leakman, but the way it was just
crisp, perfectly and salted andit worked, the way it worked
(14:37):
with the textures and everythingI said, this freaking dude gets
it.
I was, she was, she was there,we were eating.
I was like, oh my God, I'mstoked.
This is great Because you getit along the lines of how I like
things and it it.
It wouldn't normally belong andif it did, you're like, but
when it, it just was perfect.
So, so that, um, so, so, eightyears of that corporate mindset
of um get it.
(14:59):
And I'm saying corporatebecause at some point, when
you're going through thosethings, it does become corporate
in a sense.
Right, yeah, it has to.
It has that feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
You have to have a it taught me a lot about the
business of it right, right.
But what it did and I didn'trealize it and I think I know
where you're going with this isthose eight years kind of
atrophied.
My chef creativity.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yes, right, that's kind of where I'm going.
So where, where in the hell didyou come up with during those
eight years?
Were you thinking of man?
I wish I could do this.
Were you playing at home, wereyou?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
were you sampling.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
When did you say okay , I'm really good at going down
this road now, um, and I'm goingto try it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Eight years you're not touching a piece of cake,
right, I always cook at home.
I cook every meal at home.
I still do.
The chefs that I hear of theysay they never cook at home.
I don't understand it.
It doesn't resonate with me.
I just like to cook.
Of course I cook at home.
That's where I would be morecreative with in the food I was
(16:00):
preparing for my friends, for myfamily, for my now wife, but it
wasn't to the level of methinking about food the way I do
now.
And I didn't realize that it washappening when I was doing it,
because I was just living right,we're all just living and I
separated from the steakhousebecause, one thing or another,
(16:22):
it was time to go.
I called up.
You know, I had met the ownerof my restaurant now one time.
He came into the restaurant andhe sat at the bar and one of my
bartenders was like yeah, thisis Mike Cunningham, you should
meet him.
And I was like how are youdoing, sir?
Really nice guy.
But that was basically it, youknow.
And he gave me his card and hewas on his way, sure, um?
(16:44):
And so when I knew it was timethat something's gonna change,
uh, I gave him a shout and he'slike, hey, I'm gonna put you in
touch with somebody and Istarted talking to you know, um
the coo and um, long story short, you joined the group that I'm
(17:04):
with now and got into arestaurant.
That almost didn't, because whenI was first talking to
Cunningham Restaurant Group, Iwent through a stage and went
through an interview process andit was a month or two long.
It was a long process, right,and kept talking about this one
location that they had that theywere trying to fill.
(17:25):
They were trying to backfill aposition for a chef that they
had in this one location.
That was kind of like finedining, casual, right, my fine
dining background.
That's why they were trying topush me into it and I just
wasn't feeling it Right Like Ispent time in there.
So this is not Vita You'retalking about a different
position?
No, no no Vita wasn't even openat the time.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay.
So fine dining.
You're talking, the whitetablecloth, the steps of service
, the crummers, the whole dealof fine dining, yeah yeah.
Typically what type of food wason this menu?
I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
It was New American, contemporary American, whatever
you want to call it.
It was trying to push theenvelope a little bit, but still
I don't know.
I mean, I think they would havegave me carte blanche to change
the menu too, but I just wasn'tfeeling that restaurant.
But I knew they were developinga different concept and the
concept they were developing waswhat is now Union 50.
(18:17):
So it's an old Union Hall thatthey turned into just an
exciting place.
It's basically a gastropub,right Gotcha.
So casual, it's a gastropub.
They had a stage in there, livebands, huge bar, and at the
time of my life, I think becauseI wanted to separate myself
from fine dining, maybe becauseI'd been doing it for so long, I
(18:40):
was like that's exciting to me,like if I don't, and I told him
after the interview.
I was like I don't want towaste anybody's time and so
thank you.
It was a very nice process, butI just don't think I'm
interested.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
You vetted them.
It actually flipped around andthey staged for you in a sense.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Kind of yeah, and I said, if we're talking about
Union 50, that might be adifferent story.
And they're like whoa, whoa,whoa, You'd be interested in
Union 50?
I was like, yeah, that seemsreally cool.
That seems really cool.
If I'm not going to join youguys in something like that,
then I might just go do thatmyself.
Sure, and I'll be yourcompetition.
Yeah yeah.
And they're like well, let'stalk.
(19:16):
And so I ended up at Union 50,ran that for um a couple years.
You know, got some notorietywith that too.
It was exciting, it was did youhave?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
did you have more freedom with that menu?
Oh yeah, and that's where youkind of created your style that
you carried over to vita yeah sowhen you open, when they open
vita, fast forward or fastforward, so I was at union 50 um
and 2016 um.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
They opened Vita, as originally Vita was supposed to
be a test kitchen for ourcorporate executive chef to
develop dishes for the otherconcepts that are within the
group of Cunningham Restaurant.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Group.
Sure, that must be nice.
I need a test kitchen.
My test kitchen is my kitchen.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, when they were developing it, it quickly turned
into well, if we add on to thisside, we can just host some
parties.
You guys do some parties, getsome revenue in this place.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, and plus you get the feedback from the food.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Right, it makes sense right in a business standpoint,
yeah of course, well, and thenit turned into this and that and
the other and then it was justa restaurant, uh-huh.
And when it became just arestaurant, then we had a very
talented local chef, leightonRoberts.
He was the original chef ofVita when it was open.
I tell him, and I tell a lot ofpeople, I think it was built
(20:34):
for him and it was built.
He ran it for a year.
Basically.
I was at Union 50.
He was at Vita, which is justdown the street.
Really I would go check in withhim and touch base with him.
And one thing led to another,whether it be Leighton kind of
wanting to, you know, I mean,vita's a beast and it's all
(20:57):
consuming, right.
So I don't know if he justdidn't want to be that consumed
or if, you know, mike Cunninghamand Carl wanted to utilize them
in a different way.
Anyway, they approached me likehey, would you be interested in
taking over Vito?
And at first I was like no,it's Leighton's, that's his
stuff, I'm happy where I'm at.
But then I thought about it andbecause of that kind of
(21:22):
rejuvenated creativity, I waslike you know what, because of
that kind of rejuvenatedcreativity, like, I was like you
know what?
Yeah, first I had aconversation with him and he
basically told me he was likeyou know.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Was he on the way out already or he didn't know he
was?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
He knew, okay, he knew, and he said you know, and
I don't know, he could have justbeen blowing smoke, but he was
like man, he's like there's onlyone person in the city that I
would turn this over to andyou're it.
Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn'targue, and he was like so, if
you, he's like, if you don'twant to do it, then we're not
doing it.
Yeah, and I was like, well, Idon't know anyone else in the
(21:57):
city.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Really, I only met a couple people here and I'm only
a couple other people's.
However, I don't need to eattheir food to realize, because
I've been to Vita and I realizedwhen I went to Vita and I sat
there and ate and realized thatyou came out and everything else
.
There's no other person thatcould do it, because it was the
way it was supposed to be.
Everything fit, the glove fit,and that's because of what you
did.
So I don't think anybody else,I don't think I'd be sitting
(22:20):
here right now if there wassomeone else there, because
there is something about it.
You can feel there's somethingabout it, a personal passion in
there.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
There's definitely passion.
There has to be I noticed acouple things.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Not to beat this whole thing up too long, we can
talk about another subject.
I noticed little things.
Of course.
It's my profession andeverything else I've done the
same thing.
It even seemed like either outof design or out of habit, even
your wait staff and your servers, assistants and everybody else
are still.
They're walking in clockwork.
Yep, you know clock, clockwiseformat around.
They're not crossing each other, they're everyone's doing a job
(22:57):
in a circular motion, which,which is very, you know, not a
lot of people would notice that,but the ones who do notice that
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Thank you for noticing.
Yeah, definitely.
All of that takes so much workto practice and you got to crack
that you know and I do the samething.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So it's noticeable, because when we practice it and
it's rewarding to see a otherpeople doing it but, more
importantly, see our own peopledoing it and the ones who don't
realize it, they just don'trealize it but they keep coming
back because of it.
So it's a mystique, that's.
It's a missing mystique, youknow.
Well done on that man, honored,I'm honored to be here talking
to you about it.
So what do you think now, nowthat we're here and we're kind
(23:30):
of running on time, what do youthink about?
We're here now at an ACF event,american Culinary Federation,
right, okay, what do you thinkabout that?
I, I, I, I'm here because Itotally support it.
I've also been up against it,not with them, but with other
chefs in the industry who don'treally understand it, this new
guard of young chefs coming inwho think they don't have to
(23:52):
answer to anybody.
And I don't mean that in aninsulting way.
They put it in an insulting way.
I'm just repeating what isobvious.
So I'm not calling them out,it's just that their actions
speak louder than words.
And when this new guard thinksthat they're just going to get
through until they get rewardedor awarded or something, what
(24:13):
happened to the whole build up,right?
So, as far as the ACF and thisis far from advertising for them
I'm just but we're both herefor the same reason, right, and
that's in support of it.
What do you feel about it now?
I mean, it took years for you,as it did me, to kind of get it,
or something you alwaysbelieved in or what the ACF?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
for me personally, I was fairly invested in it.
A long time ago I worked for acouple chefs that pushed me in
the direction of actually doingthis right, and they were they
were very much so involved inthe ACF and so I had it on my
agenda that I was going to getcertification and I went to
(24:56):
competitions and and things likethat and it was in, it was in
my zeitgeist, you know right.
Then you know, one thing led toanother, you know, taking a
different job, getting engrossedin doing things.
It kind of just fell off.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I've always been aware of it, but for me, like I
didn't stay up on being active,with it right, but it's hard
because the style of cooking youand I do, we have to be so
focused on it.
It's hard for us to break away,to bring ourselves and everyone
all the other facets of theindustry.
We don't ignore it, we're awareof it, we just don't have time
(25:35):
to go on it.
Other people though I'm talkingabout aren't even putting
themselves to be aware of it.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I would agree, I would agree.
Even putting themselves to beaware of it, I would agree, I
would agree, and I think it's animportant thing that, um, that
if I can help, you can help.
Any of us can help the ACF toget a younger generation
involved.
That's that's.
That's that's important, that'sof course.
It's something that, no matterwhat you're doing, you have to
respect what came before youright, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
The traditions are what it's all about, man.
Look, people were cooking.
When they figured out heat madefood warm.
You know what I'm saying?
It goes way beyond us and theculinary world is way beyond us.
There's so many freakingfingers in it and facets to it
that you have to respect all ofthem to really get a good grasp
on what you're doing.
Everybody can cook Anybody, noteverybody.
Anybody can cook anybody, noteverybody.
(26:26):
Anybody can cook good and putit on a plate and have your
buddy like it and all that stuffand enough customers will come
in and like it.
Cool.
But if you don't understand thewhole thing, do you really
truly have the total respect forthe restaurant industry to give
to the customers that arereally giving to you?
Or is it a smoke show Justbecause you can make, like I
said earlier, a piece of hake ora piece of halibut, or you can
really take a U8 scallop andreally just get a complete,
perfect sear on it and reducesomething along with it and
(26:48):
purate something out.
Okay, you can do that, but howoften can you do that without
understanding the rest of theindustry to make people keep
coming in, you know?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
what I mean, yes, and for me too, why I would like to
see some of the youngergeneration and even my staff,
like, get involved in it, isbecause I I mentioned there was
a couple chefs early in mycareer, right, that were tied to
the ACF and involved in it andthey kind of pushed me in that
direction.
Well, life gets, I took a jobsomewhere else and I separated
(27:19):
from those chefs, right, I stillhave great respect for those
chefs, but I separated from them.
And then it was a differentworld that I I never really had
a mentor, right.
I I separated from chefs thatwere true professional chefs,
before I could ever get a mentor, sure, and so I had to figure
it out on my own, you know, andso I made a whole lot of
(27:41):
mistakes, right, that's how youlearn.
But I think if you can have amentor and I think that's what
one of the greatest assets ofthe asf is and can be is like
providing those mentors forpeople to not have to, you know,
struggle for so long to findtheir way right.
(28:02):
Like I mean, I'm just luckythat you know I'm a hardworking
individual, that is person thatwell, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
That stuck with it.
The avenues are there, there'splenty of room for it.
People just got to reach outand grab it.
But, chef, listen, we got towrap it up a little bit because
we can sit here and talk allnight.
I'm afraid that we might.
Right, you know, but let metell you this I'm honored that
you're here talking to us.
No, thank you.
What you do for the communityout here brought me back
personally, and I'm a busy guyThat'd be like you leaving your
(28:30):
restaurant right now to go seeme.
You know it's very hard.
So you're one of the reasonswhy, if you weren't going to be
on this show, I would have beenreally busted up about it.
You know what I mean, becausethat's when I got your email
yesterday.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I'm like no no, no, that's very kind of you to say.
It's my pleasure to be here,it's an honor.
It's an honor to be here.
Go ahead and plug yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Where can they find you?
They come to Indianapolis.
You come to Indianapolis.
You're going to come out here.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
You don't know what to do.
You're going to come outforapolis experience what we
have going on.
We have a lot going on, butdefinitely come see Vita.
It's in the Lockerbieneighborhood.
It's in the heart of downtownWell, not the heart just off the
heart of downtown, but it's inthe middle of the best
(29:14):
neighborhood, lockerbieneighborhood.
Vita, check it out.
Thank you.
Listen up here.
The restaurant industry isgrueling and unpredictable, just
like this show.
From the front of the house tothe back of the house and all in
between, we will turn up theheat, you turn up the volume.
I'm Chef Antonio Caruana.
Welcome to the Tell All Podcastat Burnt Hands Perspective.
Alright, chef Thomas Melvin,thank you for being here with us
.
We are here at Burnt HandsPerspective to come back to Indy
(00:22):
.
We had to come back to Indybecause Indy brought us so much
freaking joy and we had thisopportunity to come back.
The ACF brought us back here.
Actually, your restaurantbrought us back here meeting you
.
The initial time we had a veryshort conversation, as most
chefs do.
So here it is.
This is what I do.
We spoke about this earlier, sothe fun part is we go into
another city.
Of course it's a chef podcastor a restaurant industry podcast
(00:44):
.
So what I do first as a chefwhether I'm coming here or not,
right, and I'm looking for wherethe hell am I going to go eat?
Bottom line, I will base awhole vacation around where I'm
going to go eat right?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yes, I'm trying to.
I'm trying to train my familyto do the same thing.
So when I travel solo, it'seasy.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
But like so for real, like if I go to jamaica, for
instance, I don't know nothingabout really what's going on in
jamaica.
They could be rock climbing,zip lining cool, we'll figure
all that out.
Yeah, first we got nowhere toeat.
Yeah, usually as people go,let's go rock climbing, zip
lining and maybe we'll find arestaurant.
Nah, is that how you?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
are too.
As a chef, I am exactly likethat cool.
Um, we, we took a vacation tosaint martin with a group of
friends, right, and I got kindof some flack because I was
doing just that.
They were like stop trying tolook at our next meal.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
We haven't even eaten breakfast yet, yes, but that's
the way, man, you got someItalian in you, I think
Somewhere along the line.
Irish-German.
Okay, well, there's Italian inthere somewhere.
I don't care what anybody says.
So you eating habits of that.
So I'm always looking for thenext meal before.
So, okay, I got.
Breakfast was situatedyesterday.
Now breakfast, I'm going totake my time and think about
lunch, right, so you have atremendous history behind you.
(01:54):
You've worked at some of thebest places, opened some of the
best places one of the chophouses, the prime saga, right,
yeah, how big is that chain?
How big is that?
I don't even want to call thata chain, that network.
How big is that chain?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
how big is?
I don't even call that a chain,that network.
How big is that network?
So that was an interesting timeof my career.
Um I joined, uh, whatoriginally was moza place for
steaks, um based out ofmilwaukee.
Um they opened a location inindy.
Um I I came aboard in thelocation in indy.
My time in milwaukee has nowbeen I thought about this the
other day um it's been nowprobably 15 years since I've
(02:27):
been here.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Oh okay, I love this.
So a lot has changed.
Have you spent a lot of time inMilwaukee?
No, I have not spent any.
You need to go to Milwaukee.
So I have an employee thatworks for me, Patrick, what's up
?
Patrick Big shout out.
He's actually standing there asa manager scene.
I guess there's a good littleItalian scene there as well.
However, carry on.
So you go back to the Milwaukee?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yes, so I joined this group.
The original owner branched out, opened a location in Indy in a
beautiful building, oldbuilding.
That was a majestic buildingbuilt in 1898.
A lot of history.
It was an old oxygen company.
Anyway, opened it beautifulrestaurant.
Like it was exciting I had justseparated from somewhere else
(03:10):
and took the opportunity.
And when I did I took it and Iran and I was given opportunity
to either fail or succeed.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Where were you in your career at this point?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
So I had just left a chef de cuisine position at a
hotel, okay, and so I came overand they didn't think I could do
it because it was.
I mean, it's a steakhouse weall in with our private rooms
and everything.
I mean we're talking 275, 350seats, you know so it's not At a
clip.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Yeah Per sitting, yeah Per serving.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, so it's not a small thing, right.
So they didn't know if I coulddo it.
Yeah, per sitting.
Yeah Per serving.
Yeah, so it's not a small thing, right.
So they didn't know if I coulddo it.
Sure, I had to prove myself,but like I said, and what was
the fare?
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Was that steaks, or was that just kind of Americano?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
No, it was steakhouse .
Okay, classic steakhouse, wow.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
So now you're changing, for don't know, you're
changing the whole game.
Right now you're talking about250 steaks oh yeah we're not
talking about 250 alfredos orsome nonsense on an open air
grill this is old school.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
How big was this grill man?
I was 12 feet.
12 foot grill.
12 foot open air grill um, not,not the the deck that grills we
have.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Now that I'm not saying they're easy I'm not
saying no, but they are a littlebit more concentrated, so it
works yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, so it was my individuals, and a lot of times
I would put myself on grill whenwe, you know, on Big Ten, you
know, and things like that, thatcome into town, super Bowl,
when it was there, sure, yeah,yeah, yeah, crazy, crazy time.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
You have to, but it was a skill that you know.
On an open-air 12-foot grill,you're working four different
temperatures, which means yourflames are at four different
areas.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What about medium, rare, plus?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, allthat, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So we'll get to that in a minute.
We'll get to that in a minute.
So if we have, let's say youhave 12 feet, you have all these
.
How many people are on thegrill working?
How many men and women areworking?
Two, two, two.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Two, two on the busiest night, two when we're
triple sold out and if it's anormal night, one.
So you split the grill in halfwith your temperatures, you got
your mediums, your medium-raised, or you just run it all one
time.
You know, you know, no, yes,you section it off.
And you know, because when youare crazy busy you have to know
(05:24):
that, okay, anything that's overhere, whether it be a ribeye,
whether it be a strip orwhatever it is like, whatever it
is, that's my mid rares, right,that's my mid rares.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Let's watch them, let's yeah because if you're
just throwing everything onthere, and at this point is
you're not thermometer andyou're touching, you're going
off.
Touch.
Everything's just going for itand how's?
No doubt.
And how many are coming back?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Not a lot.
Good, not a lot.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay, so that's cool.
That's good content right thereEvery once in a while.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
But you know, for, let's say, 100 steaks maybe two.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay, now what you're cooking.
This is interesting.
I'm liking this already, bro,because what you're cooking now
and what we'll later here in theshow here Completely different,
completely different, anddefinitely not from the same
mold.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Oh no, so not even the same mold.
So let's keep going.
No, but I don't want todiscount it, right?
No, you?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
can't.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So I spent eight years of my career and my life
with fine dining steakhouses.
Through that I opened multiplevenues.
We eventually took over the onein Milwaukee, so we had
Milwaukee.
We had Indianapolis.
We opened one in Carmel,indiana, which is where you're
at right now, and this was stillthe Moe's name.
(06:33):
So there was a transitional timeof when we were growing that it
went from Moe's to Prime Gotcha.
That's what I wanted to knowwhen the Prime came.
But it's the same entity, newownership kind of deal, right.
And then we started branchingout.
Gotcha Opened a new one, wentto Cincinnati as well Cool.
And I was overseeing all thatand trying to find chefs to run
(06:55):
them all.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
At this time?
Were you married, kids oranything?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
like that.
I was with my wife.
We were not married at thattime, so she stuck to it.
Good, not married at that time,so she stuck to it.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Good, she stuck.
I am blessed.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I am blessed I found the woman that is for me and you
know she yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
She stuck with me and all that.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
That's good.
No kids at the time, so thatthat's probably what saves us
being together, because we hadreally tough.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
It is.
It changes everything.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, there were times when I would wake up in
Milwaukee.
Right, I had a place inMilwaukee that when I'd oversee
that, so I'd wake up there, I'ddrive down, hit up Carmel, check
in, go to Indy, check in, endmy day in Cincinnati, and that
was my day, yeah, and so youknow it was a lot.
It was a lot and so, like I said, I'm blessed that she was there
(07:44):
with me the whole way and stuckthrough it, because it's not
easy, but I did that for eightyears in my career and it was
great, but it's different.
It's different and it taught mea lot about the business, right
, right.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Because at that point .
Speaker 2 (07:59):
It's a fine dining steakhouse.
You're not changing the menuevery week, right, and so you're
fine tuning things.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
And there's a numbers game involved big time.
Because it's a steakhouse,proteins are much more expensive
, there's a lot less room forloss on all levels.
Everything's higher end,whether they like it or not.
Your wines are bigger, yourlinens bills are crazy.
Everything about it is anotherlevel of learning because it's
more corporate mindset to keepthem numbers in check.
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Even, even the sourcing, the meats right,
because we want the best of thebest.
So it's like.
But also we're running abusiness and we want to get the
best price we can.
So it's like developing thosedeals and locking those in and
and knowing that we're going tohave quality product for our
guests.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Sure.
Not, you know and and and, withall that in that whole network.
You need an abundance of it tostay consistent.
Oh yeah, to make sure this oneis like this one and that one's
like this one and this is also.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Let me.
I don't mean to interrupt, no,you're not.
But, you know, it's a time whenwe cut all our own steaks.
We weren't buying packaged.
Sure, you had a bone saw in thekitchen, we were cutting
everything.
So you know, I mean we hadstorage, we had to have storage
for all of it.
And we aged on site, like therewas a speck that all of the
ranchers knew and when theywould butcher it, like here's a
(09:12):
speck, age it this much.
But then when we got it we alsowet aged it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
So, yeah, so a normal cut.
So you're going to cut yourribs up or your strip or
whatever, and you're going toleave your whole strip.
You're going to age that,typically, you had an aging
walk-in.
Were you talking 20 days, 22days, before you got into them,
or?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
something on the wet age At the time it was 31 to 35
days is what I expect all ourchefs to do.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
On the wet age.
Yeah, did you do dry aging backthen.
Dry aging.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I actually sourced somebody else to do it, because
a dry aging room is a wholenother thing.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
It's another.
You need another mechanic forthat.
Yeah, I'm going through thatnow.
I source mine, I source thebeef and the dry ager and all
that, but it's it's important todo it right, yeah, and I don't
think we can consistently do itright while we're putting out
the product because goodcollaboration, a good team
effort.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
So you're at prime 47 , which is a big thing.
We've.
We've been there and you wentfrom that, so you helped with
that growth in eight years, soyou're responsible for what most
people in this area considerpart of their life.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Um cause I'm kind of torn on that right.
There's some people that arestill tied to Prime that I love.
They're great people and I will, I will, I'll do anything for
them.
You know they're, they're likefamily, but also, as you
probably know, with restaurantsthat you've been a part of and
then you separate.
Sometimes it pains you right Tosee, sometimes, the direction
(10:40):
of some of the locations and howthey go.
It happens, you know, ithappens.
Not everybody holds themselvesto excellence and sometimes
that's that hurts.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, no, I can get it.
I won't even go there, but Iunderstand what you're.
I totally understand whatyou're saying.
It happens in my ownrestaurants now that if a dish
goes out wrong and if I'mcooking in one and at the other
one, I get a complaint.
But there that if a dish goesout wrong and if I'm cooking in
one and at the other one, I geta complaint.
But there's only so much we cando.
I mean, life is life andreality is reality At some point
in time.
Now you're at Vita, which is atotally different ballgame, a
(11:16):
totally different.
I would consider that we canget into that, because you have
recognition from James Beard acouple of times.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, 22 and 24.
Semifinalist or finalist?
Semifinalist yeah, I wasn'table to win the whole thing.
Maybe next year, maybe, but youknow what If?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
you keep going with consistency, it's only a matter
of time.
I went to your restaurant.
I travel the world.
I travel looking for multiplethings.
A lot of them is everythingfrom the Michelin style of the
molecular cooking, which reallyisn't my forte as far as cooking
for sure, and it's not my fortein cooking because it's not
(11:50):
really my forte in eating either, and I cannot just connect with
the passion.
Now I do, however, go once ayear to Italy and work with a
couple of Michelin friends so Ican stay relevant in the
knowledge of it.
I don't want to make a falseaccusation that I just don't
like it.
It's not that I don't like it,it just doesn't get into my soul
, right.
I follow, yeah, I think, beardmyself judges on a much more
(12:13):
close-to-home system of my styleof cooking or my style of
restaurateuring, which is morepassionate, more organic, and
maybe that's because it's anAmerican system, right, but it
is an amazing system and I canrelate to it more.
So when I see James Beardson befinalist or finalist or
awardees or whatever, I have amuch more.
(12:37):
I'm much more excited aboutthat.
You see what I'm sayingMichelin is Michelin is Michelin
.
That's cool, it's great, butit's almost out of my realm
because it's not in mywheelhouse of interest.
Yeah, deep down inside, when Ieat that style of food, it's fun
, but it's not in me, right?
Sure Don't know that that'sjust me.
So go ahead, be mad at me allyou like, that's just the way it
(12:59):
is.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I think with anything , though, even the Michelin
level, there's levels to that.
Of course, I think some of themcan resonate, and other ones
just feel a different way.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Sure, the artists and the chefs who are doing it, I
have nothing but respect, forthey are literally doing their
damn thing to that level.
That's amazing to me, becausethey're following their passion,
just like I am mine and you areyours.
So kudos to them.
And, like I said, I'm nottelling you I dislike it at all.
I just know where my passionslie when I sit down and eat a
(13:31):
plate of food.
That's just what moves me.
Now, why am I saying this?
I went to your restaurant withthe level of expectation of what
I read.
I followed you a little bitbefore I went, meaning I looked
into your thing, just becauseI'm not because I'm trying to
judge, but I just want to.
I'm interested now.
Oh wow, look at this.
Oh wow, look at this.
Huh, this is interesting, cool,wow, this might be pretty good.
(13:52):
You know Well, it was wellabove good.
I was something you did withsomething, the most simple thing
, small.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
I wish I could pinpoint it for you.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
I've changed the menu probably no less than 30 times
since you've been here.
Of course, of course.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
It was just a detail.
It was just a detail that mostpeople wouldn't have noticed.
I don't know if it was crisp, Ilove that it was detailed.
It was a leak.
It was a simple freaking leak.
Okay, oh, okay, yes, that waswhen we had the scallop dish on
the menu.
Yes, it was just a simple leakman, but the way it was just
crisp, perfectly and salted andit worked, the way it worked
(14:37):
with the textures and everythingI said, this freaking dude gets
it.
I was, she was, she was there,we were eating.
I was like, oh my God, I'mstoked.
This is great Because you getit along the lines of how I like
things and it it.
It wouldn't normally belong andif it did, you're like, but
when it, it just was perfect.
So, so that, um, so, so, eightyears of that corporate mindset
of um get it.
(14:59):
And I'm saying corporatebecause at some point, when
you're going through thosethings, it does become corporate
in a sense.
Right, yeah, it has to.
It has that feeling.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
You have to have a it taught me a lot about the
business of it right, right.
But what it did and I didn'trealize it and I think I know
where you're going with this isthose eight years kind of
atrophied.
My chef creativity.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Yes, right, that's kind of where I'm going.
So where, where in the hell didyou come up with during those
eight years?
Were you thinking of man?
I wish I could do this.
Were you playing at home, wereyou?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
were you sampling.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
When did you say okay , I'm really good at going down
this road now, um, and I'm goingto try it.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
Eight years you're not touching a piece of cake,
right, I always cook at home.
I cook every meal at home.
I still do.
The chefs that I hear of theysay they never cook at home.
I don't understand it.
It doesn't resonate with me.
I just like to cook.
Of course I cook at home.
That's where I would be morecreative with in the food I was
(16:00):
preparing for my friends, for myfamily, for my now wife, but it
wasn't to the level of methinking about food the way I do
now.
And I didn't realize that it washappening when I was doing it,
because I was just living right,we're all just living and I
separated from the steakhousebecause, one thing or another,
(16:22):
it was time to go.
I called up.
You know, I had met the ownerof my restaurant now one time.
He came into the restaurant andhe sat at the bar and one of my
bartenders was like yeah, thisis Mike Cunningham, you should
meet him.
And I was like how are youdoing, sir?
Really nice guy.
But that was basically it, youknow.
And he gave me his card and hewas on his way, sure, um?
(16:44):
And so when I knew it was timethat something's gonna change,
uh, I gave him a shout and he'slike, hey, I'm gonna put you in
touch with somebody and Istarted talking to you know, um
the coo and um, long story short, you joined the group that I'm
(17:04):
with now and got into arestaurant.
That almost didn't, because whenI was first talking to
Cunningham Restaurant Group, Iwent through a stage and went
through an interview process andit was a month or two long.
It was a long process, right,and kept talking about this one
location that they had that theywere trying to fill.
(17:25):
They were trying to backfill aposition for a chef that they
had in this one location.
That was kind of like finedining, casual, right, my fine
dining background.
That's why they were trying topush me into it and I just
wasn't feeling it Right Like Ispent time in there.
So this is not Vita You'retalking about a different
position?
No, no no Vita wasn't even openat the time.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Okay.
So fine dining.
You're talking, the whitetablecloth, the steps of service
, the crummers, the whole dealof fine dining, yeah yeah.
Typically what type of food wason this menu?
I can only imagine.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
It was New American, contemporary American, whatever
you want to call it.
It was trying to push theenvelope a little bit, but still
I don't know.
I mean, I think they would havegave me carte blanche to change
the menu too, but I just wasn'tfeeling that restaurant.
But I knew they were developinga different concept and the
concept they were developing waswhat is now Union 50.
(18:17):
So it's an old Union Hall thatthey turned into just an
exciting place.
It's basically a gastropub,right Gotcha.
So casual, it's a gastropub.
They had a stage in there, livebands, huge bar, and at the
time of my life, I think becauseI wanted to separate myself
from fine dining, maybe becauseI'd been doing it for so long, I
(18:40):
was like that's exciting to me,like if I don't, and I told him
after the interview.
I was like I don't want towaste anybody's time and so
thank you.
It was a very nice process, butI just don't think I'm
interested.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
You vetted them.
It actually flipped around andthey staged for you in a sense.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Kind of yeah, and I said, if we're talking about
Union 50, that might be adifferent story.
And they're like whoa, whoa,whoa, You'd be interested in
Union 50?
I was like, yeah, that seemsreally cool.
That seems really cool.
If I'm not going to join youguys in something like that,
then I might just go do thatmyself.
Sure, and I'll be yourcompetition.
Yeah yeah.
And they're like well, let'stalk.
(19:16):
And so I ended up at Union 50,ran that for um a couple years.
You know, got some notorietywith that too.
It was exciting, it was did youhave?
Speaker 1 (19:26):
did you have more freedom with that menu?
Oh yeah, and that's where youkind of created your style that
you carried over to vita yeah sowhen you open, when they open
vita, fast forward or fastforward, so I was at union 50 um
and 2016 um.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
They opened Vita, as originally Vita was supposed to
be a test kitchen for ourcorporate executive chef to
develop dishes for the otherconcepts that are within the
group of Cunningham Restaurant.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Group.
Sure, that must be nice.
I need a test kitchen.
My test kitchen is my kitchen.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, when they were developing it, it quickly turned
into well, if we add on to thisside, we can just host some
parties.
You guys do some parties, getsome revenue in this place.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, and plus you get the feedback from the food.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Right, it makes sense right in a business standpoint,
yeah of course, well, and thenit turned into this and that and
the other and then it was justa restaurant, uh-huh.
And when it became just arestaurant, then we had a very
talented local chef, leightonRoberts.
He was the original chef ofVita when it was open.
I tell him, and I tell a lot ofpeople, I think it was built
(20:34):
for him and it was built.
He ran it for a year.
Basically.
I was at Union 50.
He was at Vita, which is justdown the street.
Really I would go check in withhim and touch base with him.
And one thing led to another,whether it be Leighton kind of
wanting to, you know, I mean,vita's a beast and it's all
(20:57):
consuming, right.
So I don't know if he justdidn't want to be that consumed
or if, you know, mike Cunninghamand Carl wanted to utilize them
in a different way.
Anyway, they approached me likehey, would you be interested in
taking over Vito?
And at first I was like no,it's Leighton's, that's his
stuff, I'm happy where I'm at.
But then I thought about it andbecause of that kind of
(21:22):
rejuvenated creativity, I waslike you know what, because of
that kind of rejuvenatedcreativity, like, I was like you
know what?
Yeah, first I had aconversation with him and he
basically told me he was likeyou know.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Was he on the way out already or he didn't know he
was?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
He knew, okay, he knew, and he said you know, and
I don't know, he could have justbeen blowing smoke, but he was
like man, he's like there's onlyone person in the city that I
would turn this over to andyou're it.
Well, I wouldn't, I wouldn'targue, and he was like so, if
you, he's like, if you don'twant to do it, then we're not
doing it.
Yeah, and I was like, well, Idon't know anyone else in the
(21:57):
city.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Really, I only met a couple people here and I'm only
a couple other people's.
However, I don't need to eattheir food to realize, because
I've been to Vita and I realizedwhen I went to Vita and I sat
there and ate and realized thatyou came out and everything else
.
There's no other person thatcould do it, because it was the
way it was supposed to be.
Everything fit, the glove fit,and that's because of what you
did.
So I don't think anybody else,I don't think I'd be sitting
(22:20):
here right now if there wassomeone else there, because
there is something about it.
You can feel there's somethingabout it, a personal passion in
there.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
There's definitely passion.
There has to be I noticed acouple things.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Not to beat this whole thing up too long, we can
talk about another subject.
I noticed little things.
Of course.
It's my profession andeverything else I've done the
same thing.
It even seemed like either outof design or out of habit, even
your wait staff and your servers, assistants and everybody else
are still.
They're walking in clockwork.
Yep, you know clock, clockwiseformat around.
They're not crossing each other, they're everyone's doing a job
(22:57):
in a circular motion, which,which is very, you know, not a
lot of people would notice that,but the ones who do notice that
you know.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Thank you for noticing.
Yeah, definitely.
All of that takes so much workto practice and you got to crack
that you know and I do the samething.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So it's noticeable, because when we practice it and
it's rewarding to see a otherpeople doing it but, more
importantly, see our own peopledoing it and the ones who don't
realize it, they just don'trealize it but they keep coming
back because of it.
So it's a mystique, that's.
It's a missing mystique, youknow.
Well done on that man, honored,I'm honored to be here talking
to you about it.
So what do you think now, nowthat we're here and we're kind
(23:30):
of running on time, what do youthink about?
We're here now at an ACF event,american Culinary Federation,
right, okay, what do you thinkabout that?
I, I, I, I'm here because Itotally support it.
I've also been up against it,not with them, but with other
chefs in the industry who don'treally understand it, this new
guard of young chefs coming inwho think they don't have to
(23:52):
answer to anybody.
And I don't mean that in aninsulting way.
They put it in an insulting way.
I'm just repeating what isobvious.
So I'm not calling them out,it's just that their actions
speak louder than words.
And when this new guard thinksthat they're just going to get
through until they get rewardedor awarded or something, what
(24:13):
happened to the whole build up,right?
So, as far as the ACF and thisis far from advertising for them
I'm just but we're both herefor the same reason, right, and
that's in support of it.
What do you feel about it now?
I mean, it took years for you,as it did me, to kind of get it,
or something you alwaysbelieved in or what the ACF?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
for me personally, I was fairly invested in it.
A long time ago I worked for acouple chefs that pushed me in
the direction of actually doingthis right, and they were they
were very much so involved inthe ACF and so I had it on my
agenda that I was going to getcertification and I went to
(24:56):
competitions and and things likethat and it was in, it was in
my zeitgeist, you know right.
Then you know, one thing led toanother, you know, taking a
different job, getting engrossedin doing things.
It kind of just fell off.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I've always been aware of it, but for me, like I
didn't stay up on being active,with it right, but it's hard
because the style of cooking youand I do, we have to be so
focused on it.
It's hard for us to break away,to bring ourselves and everyone
all the other facets of theindustry.
We don't ignore it, we're awareof it, we just don't have time
(25:35):
to go on it.
Other people though I'm talkingabout aren't even putting
themselves to be aware of it.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I would agree, I would agree.
Even putting themselves to beaware of it, I would agree, I
would agree, and I think it's animportant thing that, um, that
if I can help, you can help.
Any of us can help the ACF toget a younger generation
involved.
That's that's.
That's that's important, that'sof course.
It's something that, no matterwhat you're doing, you have to
respect what came before youright, absolutely so.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
The traditions are what it's all about, man.
Look, people were cooking.
When they figured out heat madefood warm.
You know what I'm saying?
It goes way beyond us and theculinary world is way beyond us.
There's so many freakingfingers in it and facets to it
that you have to respect all ofthem to really get a good grasp
on what you're doing.
Everybody can cook Anybody, noteverybody.
Anybody can cook anybody, noteverybody.
(26:26):
Anybody can cook good and putit on a plate and have your
buddy like it and all that stuffand enough customers will come
in and like it.
Cool.
But if you don't understand thewhole thing, do you really
truly have the total respect forthe restaurant industry to give
to the customers that arereally giving to you?
Or is it a smoke show Justbecause you can make, like I
said earlier, a piece of hake ora piece of halibut, or you can
really take a U8 scallop andreally just get a complete,
perfect sear on it and reducesomething along with it and
(26:48):
purate something out.
Okay, you can do that, but howoften can you do that without
understanding the rest of theindustry to make people keep
coming in, you know?
Speaker 2 (26:56):
what I mean, yes, and for me too, why I would like to
see some of the youngergeneration and even my staff,
like, get involved in it, isbecause I I mentioned there was
a couple chefs early in mycareer, right, that were tied to
the ACF and involved in it andthey kind of pushed me in that
direction.
Well, life gets, I took a jobsomewhere else and I separated
(27:19):
from those chefs, right, I stillhave great respect for those
chefs, but I separated from them.
And then it was a differentworld that I I never really had
a mentor, right.
I I separated from chefs thatwere true professional chefs,
before I could ever get a mentor, sure, and so I had to figure
it out on my own, you know, andso I made a whole lot of
(27:41):
mistakes, right, that's how youlearn.
But I think if you can have amentor and I think that's what
one of the greatest assets ofthe asf is and can be is like
providing those mentors forpeople to not have to, you know,
struggle for so long to findtheir way right.
(28:02):
Like I mean, I'm just luckythat you know I'm a hardworking
individual, that is person thatwell, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
That stuck with it.
The avenues are there, there'splenty of room for it.
People just got to reach outand grab it.
But, chef, listen, we got towrap it up a little bit because
we can sit here and talk allnight.
I'm afraid that we might.
Right, you know, but let metell you this I'm honored that
you're here talking to us.
No, thank you.
What you do for the communityout here brought me back
personally, and I'm a busy guyThat'd be like you leaving your
(28:30):
restaurant right now to go seeme.
You know it's very hard.
So you're one of the reasonswhy, if you weren't going to be
on this show, I would have beenreally busted up about it.
You know what I mean, becausethat's when I got your email
yesterday.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I'm like no no, no, that's very kind of you to say.
It's my pleasure to be here,it's an honor.
It's an honor to be here.
Go ahead and plug yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Where can they find you?
They come to Indianapolis.
You come to Indianapolis.
You're going to come out here.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
You don't know what to do.
You're going to come outforapolis experience what we
have going on.
We have a lot going on, butdefinitely come see Vita.
It's in the Lockerbieneighborhood.
It's in the heart of downtownWell, not the heart just off the
heart of downtown, but it's inthe middle of the best
(29:14):
neighborhood, lockerbieneighborhood.
Vita, check it out.
Thank you.
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