In this episode Chef Tony and KC candidly discuss the harsh realities of becoming a chef and the misconceptions many have about achieving culinary "stardom."
• The dilution of the title "chef" – from certified professional to anyone who cooks commercially
• Celebrity chef culture has created unrealistic expectations about culinary careers and success
• Social media presence doesn't translate to actual restaurant success – "butts in seats" is what matters
• Most chefs will never achieve Michelin recognition but can still be excellent at their craft
• Local recognition systems and customer loyalty are undervalued markers of success
• Real chefs acknowledge their mentors and understand they didn't succeed alone
• Career advancement requires significant personal sacrifice – relationships, time, and lifestyle
Stop chasing the fantasy of being the next culinary superstar with tweezers and custom knife rolls. Focus on mastering fundamentals, showing gratitude to mentors, and understanding that true growth comes from necessity, not showing off.
Welcome to the show! Burnt Hands Perspective
VIRTUAL TIP JAR: https://www.buzzsprout.com/2388325/support
CONTACT US:
www.burnthandsperspective.com
info@reframeyourbrand.com
IG @Theburnthandsperspective
Thank you to our location sponsor, Luce Secondo, located in Summit Pointe in Chesapeake, VA www.lucesecondo.com
For sponsorship opportunities, don't hesitate to get in touch with us directly.
*The views and opinions on this show are meant for entertainment purposes only. They do not reflect the views of our sponsors. We are not here to babysit your feelings, if you are a true industry pro, you will know that what we say is meant to make you laugh and have a great time. If you don't get that, this is not the podcast for you. You've been warned. Enjoy the ride!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
All right, Hello everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello Kristen, Cheers on our coffee.
Here we go again.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Child, I got seat.
That's everybody out there.
Guys, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Fabulous I know.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So today we're going to talk about some more stuff.
Again, we're going to talkabout ourselves, with ourselves,
to ourselves, without a panel.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, there's no.
Yeah, the guest today is youand your insight.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Hi, hi, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome, chef Tony, to the show.
It's nice to Glad I'm here,glad I could make it.
I was fucking busy today.
We set aside time, so you arebusy.
You're busy all the time.
So that takes us right intotoday's topic.
So we're going to talk aboutkind of the cost of becoming a
chef and what chefs can reallyexpect, because it's not all
glory and fame.
(00:58):
So where do you want to startwith the cost of becoming a chef
?
Is it something you see more of?
What do you like?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Well, first is the terminology of the word chef.
We've already discussed thatbefore in previous episodes.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But we are in season three.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So all those people who are just turning into this
or tuning into this.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Go back.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Go back to season one , check it out, but until then,
we'll give you a quick recap.
There's a definition and a termfor being a chef, and then
there's everyone else's opinionof it.
Okay, we all know that being achef, if you want to be
certified in chef, if you're atthe ACF or anything like that,
there are certificationqualifications that you need to
follow.
To become a chef, you need torun a crew of so many people for
(01:36):
so long, you have to have somany teaching hours, you have to
have so many hours of training.
There are a lot of things tohaving the term chef as a
certification.
Then comes the word chef Anyonewho works in a fucking kitchen
and cooks, that's a chef.
Now you know what I'm saying.
So anyone who fucking friesanything from chicken wings, you
could be the chef of a fuckingsports bar and you're going to
(01:58):
call yourself a chef.
You could be a food truck chef.
You can be the chef of afucking social media.
You can be a food truck chef.
You can be the chef of afucking social media.
You can do whatever you want,just say you're a chef.
So the word chef now is just aterm for somebody who simply
cooks.
I think, I think that's whereit went.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
The bastardized term.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The bastardized term.
So let's talk about the chefswho want to be known as a chef.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah Well, sacrifice.
Let's start with sacrifice,because people go into this
thinking it's going to be fun.
Well, you're never sacrificedanything.
They think it's going to be fun.
I can go out and party everynight.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I can you know?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
do what I want, and is that a misconception?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
we've seen more recently.
Well, I don't know if that's amisconception.
I think that's true, becausethat's really what's happening.
I think the misconception isthat they're going to do all
that and then be famous.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So I think that's what it is.
I think people want to beeverybody.
It's not think.
I know, I fucking know, and youknow everybody wants to be
famous, everybody no matter whatyou're doing If you're a
mechanic, you want to be afamous mechanic guy around town.
If you're a race car driver, youwant to be the one that beats
out the next guy.
To be famous and people can sayit's for the passion love.
All they want to, but you climbto the top of your love by
(03:04):
being recognized for being suchin such love does it make sense?
yeah.
So being being a chef is is noteasy, because the work that
goes into it is so involved andso grueling that it just gets.
It gets jaded out by peoplewith this fantasy.
Okay, and what I want to tellpeople is this You're not going
(03:27):
to fucking do it.
You're not going to do it.
You're not going to be thecelebrity chef you want to be.
You're not going to be the mostrecognized chef in the fucking
world.
You're not going to be the mostrecognized chef in your fucking
city.
You don't have the right to dothat.
Who makes that happen is thefucking city itself, the people
in it and everything else.
(03:47):
All you can do is work your assoff every day, consistently.
Okay, what people get jaded on,kristen, is this.
They get the um.
They look at like GrantAckett's, thomas Keller, uh, all
these people who have hugeaccolades.
Now, I can go on forever withthese, the Michelin star chefs,
the James Baird chefs.
I can go on forever with these,the Michelin star chefs, the
James Baird chefs.
I attribute it to, like the.
(04:07):
I'm going to use the MichaelJordan thing.
Okay, michael Jordan is aphenomenal basketball player.
Wayne Gretzky is amazing athockey.
So much good at it so muchbetter at it, naturally, that
it's worth the conversation overeverybody else in the fucking
world who plays basketball orplays hockey Right, and that
goes in any industry else in thefucking world who plays
basketball or plays hockey right?
And that goes in any industry.
So they have something thatMichelin chefs have.
(04:30):
Okay, michelin chefs aremasters of what they do.
It's a gastro type of moleculartype of cooking that they're
being judged on.
Now I have people come out oftime saying are you ever going
to get a Michelin star?
Absolutely not.
I'm not even in the samecaliber of that type of cooking.
I'm not in that realm at all.
My style of cooking has nothingto do with that.
(04:52):
So I don't try and go for that.
I don't compare myself to that.
But a lot of people who don'tunderstand it are the ones who
do.
You know, and it's big now withsocial media, with the aprons
and the fucking tweezers and allthese little things.
And I'm not bashing that,because if that's what they want
(05:17):
to do, look, if you don't knowhow to use a pair of tongs to do
five different things in fivedifferent saute pans at the same
fucking time, you have nobusiness holding a tweezer with
a micro green in it, I'll slapit right out of your hand.
You know what I mean.
If you can't run a pastastation, jump over to the fry
real quick to pull out a cutletthat needs to be sauced over
with this and you're doing allthis.
There's no saucier and there'sno person on fish.
That's all beautiful fantasykitchen work, right.
That's been exposed to us inbooks, magazines, social media.
(05:38):
Yeah, things like that.
That's the fantasy world andit's out there, don't get me
wrong.
But it's such a small percentover the millions of restaurants
and millions of people workingin them.
So whatever happened to thenormal grinding chef?
That's what I want to know.
Where is their recognition?
So we don't have a recognitionsystem.
We don't.
You either have to berecognized for being the
(05:59):
absolute best of the best, whichwould be Michelin, which would
be the Michael Jordan type thing.
But there's so many otherpeople playing basketball in the
world and they're all good andthey're all good.
Go to a park in any city andwork your way up the park.
From recreation.
You have the best guys inrecreation.
Go to D1, college, high school,mba, semi-pro, european.
(06:19):
You have people all over theworld who are great, but
everyone emphasizes on onebecause he was so good.
That's the same type of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
With the chef world.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But not everybody can be that.
Just go to work and shut thefuck up, man.
Go to work.
Look at these people Read theirbooks.
It doesn't mean you're going toemulate their life.
You're not going to.
It's very hard to make apaycheck, make a living and also
convince somebody that you'reso good that they're going to
open up a $2 million restaurantfor you so you can go use your
tweezers For you.
It's not going to happen, man,it's so.
(06:48):
I can't say it's not going tohappen, but the percentage of it
happening are lightning strikesWell it's the same as your kid.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Like everybody thinks their kid's going to be the
next pro, whatever sport playerLike oh, my kid's so good, my
kid doesn't good, my kid does.
No, they're.
They're really not they're,they're fairly average.
But the people who stand outstand out because they are that
exceptional at it or they justhave like that je ne sais quoi,
like they have that thing, likewhatever it is, they have a
thing.
And I think a lot of peoplehave been spoiled by seeing the
(07:15):
television shows, seeing thesepeople make money which
technically they really didn'tmake money off of in the
beginning.
So all of that has kind of beennewer, I guess, guess, to the
industry, because we reallydidn't have I mean, when we were
growing up we didn't have anyshows like that, like travel
shows.
So that's, it's changed a lot.
I've seen it change.
I think that just creates alittle bit of the misconception.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, and what it is is, like you said, not not
everybody's going to getrecognition.
Not every chef is gonna getfamous or newsworthy or gonna
get recognized with awards.
There's not really a lot ofaward systems.
And here's the other problemhere, folks, let me explain this
to you.
Every city has an award or acontest type system.
Everything, every city, but alot of cities, especially ours
(08:00):
here they all don't take itserious.
Yeah, they don't take itserious.
So if you have a thing where youcan call in and vote, let's say
the best of your city everycity has it the best of.
A lot of chefs don't take itseriously or they think it's a
joke because it could be rigged.
It could be that it could bethis, but the way I look at it
is, if you're not willing totake on that challenge, you
don't deserve the uppercontests't work that way.
(08:24):
You know what I'm saying.
If you're not going to acceptthe fact that somebody won the
best of because the city voted.
Well, they voted, whether youlike it or not.
Everybody had a category andthere's seven people in that
category, so you had sevenchances to get voted for and you
got voted on it and you won.
So it doesn't matter what theaward system, whether it's from
by the people or by a panel, orby a judging committee or by a
(08:47):
secret shopper, it doesn'tmatter, you still have to win.
And if you're not willing toparticipate in the competitions
at your local level, the lowestlevel, how are you going to hold
yourself up to being celebratedor recognized at the highest
level?
You can't.
You have to work your way upthrough each incremental level
of competition.
(09:07):
Whether it's a call-in votefrom fucking 27 people or a
blind tasting, it doesn't matter.
You know what I mean.
You have to be willing tounderstand that the people out
there have the right to speakfor you, and if you don't want
to partake in it, then don'ttalk about no fucking Michelin
stars and everything else.
You don't even know what you'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know what I mean.
We talked about this kind ofseason one where you said, as a
chef like you're winning everynight with the people who come
through the door because it'sit's actual physical response.
People are actually taking timeout of their day to drive and
see you and sit down and eat andsupport you as different than
online popularity, becauseonline popularity doesn't mean
shit.
You're not making any money offof those people unless you have
(09:50):
some kind of good to sell them,so you have to be butts in
seats.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And you're not getting a real loyal commitment
either.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
No, it's flying, You're sitting on a toilet.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You're sitting on the airplane, you're doing whatever
you're doing.
You hit like you, move on.
You hit like you, move on.
You hit like you, move on.
It's very easy to sit on thefloor in your house while your
kids are playing fucking andlike you, know playing games and
shit and for you to just likesomething.
And if a million people likesomething, that doesn't mean a
hundred of them are coming togive you a dollar no you know
what I mean.
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Doesn't mean anything they don't walk through your
doors.
That that is for any chef,regardless of awards.
You can win all the awards inthe world, but if you don't have
people coming in yourrestaurant, what good are you?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Exactly, I mean you.
Really it's a full package.
Now I wish there was and I hopethere is going to be at some
point in time, an award or arecognition, not so much an
award.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'm sorry More for like state local.
For just normal people.
Where are the normal chefs?
Or you mean no, hold on,clarifyify normal, because you
mean just not with the moleculargastro-infused type shell.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah right, let's just talk about the
restauranteurs who are out thereputting out a nice product with
their own twist on it, don'tget me wrong.
But they're following whateverhappened to celebration of
normal cooking, traditionalcooking.
Now you take a piece of basil,you blow it down, you break it
down, add nitrous oxygen to it.
Whatever you're going to do,you're going to foam it out and
you're going to bring it back tolife, and now it's a basil
(11:11):
foaming whatever.
And that's great.
Don't get me wrong, I'm notknocking that.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I like that food too.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I'm not knocking it.
It's a very big skill.
It's more of a science.
It is what it is through aThanksgiving turkey.
See what I'm saying?
It's just a different type ofthing and I'm not good at it.
So what about all the millionsof people who are turning out?
(11:36):
I'm talking about country clubs, hunt rooms, small little
places, mom and pop joints, whoare turning out amazing food,
who aren't getting recognized,but they are putting out food
that should be recognized and itis basically on yelp and stuff.
But you know what?
Where's the award system forthat?
If you're not into all thisstuff, to get recognized by
james beard, if your city's notgood enough to get recognized by
(11:57):
one of these things, ifmichelin doesn't consider your
city good enough to fucking berecognized, you're not even
going to be on the map.
But you could be the best chefin the fucking world, but
because you you live here, we'renot going to pay attention to
you.
What happened to them?
Where are we left?
You see what I'm saying?
We are only left at local.
So you got to take advantage oflocal situations and the local
people walking through yourdoors.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I think most of the local show I mean most of them
know about it.
It's just going out of your wayto do it, cause some people get
locked in like in the kitchenwhere they're not you know,
they're not looking at expandingtheir brand outside of it.
So you have to kind of hunt forthose opportunities too.
Nobody's going to come and giveyou those opportunities.
So if you're a chef, actuallygo out and actively look at
where you can get recognitionfrom.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And remember this if you're a chef and you're
creative and you have a goodfollowing behind you, don't get
lost in that.
There's a lot more to it.
There's a lot more to it Ifyou're going to open up and
you're going to leave whereyou're at, to go, open up your
own restaurant, your own thing,and you want to be recognized
and you want to don't forgetyour mentors, don't forget who
brought you there.
There's one thing that peopleask me all the time and that's
(12:59):
like how do you know whensomeone's ready?
It's very easy for me to knowwhen a chef is ready to conquer
the next level, the next levelof commitment, and that's just
simply.
Just go on his fucking socialmedia page, go on their personal
profile and see what they talkabout, and you'll know if
they're ready.
If they're talking about all thegreat things they're doing, how
good they do this and theirpassion for cooking, and they
(13:21):
started here and now they'refucking here.
And if they did all that andstill didn't mention the
restaurant they're working in orthe chef they're working under,
they are not ready.
You are not ready.
You are full of shit and you'refooling yourself because you
honestly think in your mindyou're doing all this on your
own, you're forgetting thefoundation that your house is
(13:42):
built on and that's how I knowright there and then.
So if you go in there and thatprobably relates to any industry
I'd imagine that probably goeseverywhere, right?
But that's what I do.
I look right on their socialmedia and see how I talk about,
how they talk about them, howthey talk about themselves, and
I can tell if I have an athletecoming and they're going to be a
sous chef or they're going towork under me or something like
that.
I just go right to their socialmedia page and I just watch it.
(14:02):
I don't tell them, I'm nevertelling them, I watch all of
them.
I'm never telling you what I see.
I just see if I feel you'reready to move on or not, if
you're going to be mycompetition in the next year or
two or not.
And most of the time they'renot, because they're not ready
to accept the fact that theydidn't get hair alone and
someone else is helping them andthey have a mentor and they
have someone else's style yourstyle.
(14:27):
If you worked in a place forfive years and your plating
looks the same and the foodlooks the same and you're just
rubbing off, dude, you don'thave that.
You, you got to understand.
Now you go on the same socialmedia page and they say I have
to give all my respect to this.
My mentor taught me this.
I'm so proud.
I can't wait to move on.
I'm ready to move on by myself.
Um, I'm so thankful for allI've learned here.
Now you're talking.
(14:48):
Now you're ready.
Now you're going to get supportfrom me because you're right,
you can't be with me forever,you can't take my style forever
and you're going to create yourown style and your own palette
and you're going to move on.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
And we know it's an incestuous, tight knit business.
So you don't want to burn yourbridges by doing those kinds of
things Exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So when somebody says they're going to move on and
they give no credit to wherethey just came from for the last
three or four years, that's ared flag for me, because I can
still look back and tell you allthe people who influenced me
and I've always said it thewhole time, but it took me until
I was almost 30, in my early40s, to admit it.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
It's part of growth, part of aging.
With age comes wisdom, right,yeah, like fine wine?
I think that, yeah, and you aregoing to have to sacrifice,
like a moth to the flame.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, this discussion was kind of like Birds with
desire.
Oh, my God, you know what thatJanet Jackson?
I'm sure that's the way lovegoes.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
This is when things go off the rails and we got to
end it.
We just got to end it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
But yeah, I think so Any any last words on.
You know sacrifice and and justkeep grinding to get that
recognition.
You're not going to be able togain and keep everything you
have.
Sorry, this industry, thisworld, typically doesn't allow
that.
You're going to have tosacrifice, whether it be your
free time, your family.
Sometimes everything comes witha sacrifice.
So if you want to advance in aculinary world and move up by
(16:20):
opening another restaurant orgrowing another kitchen or
spreading yourself into anotherpart of the industry, any chance
or any, any, any growth youmake or any move you make,
you're going to have to leavesomething.
As you succeed in a kitchen orin a restaurant industry,
typically it comes monetary.
You succeed by seeing yourmonetary value and your growth.
With that comes a new visionand the way you used to look at
(16:43):
life when you were working isdifferent than now.
You're creating jobs for otherpeople.
You see avenues you don't seethe same.
You could be married for amultiple amount of years and
when this happens it's happeningto you and not us.
So sometimes you split there andthere's a lot of things that go
on where you you don't see lifethe same way you did 10 years
(17:04):
ago when you first got married,and now you're starting to see a
whole different vision ofwhat's out there, and that
person ain't along on the sameroad, right?
So those things are going tohappen and you have to be ready
for it and you have to be committo it and you have to make that
devil handshake, I guess youcould say and you're going to
shake a hand with somebody onsome fake ass contract somewhere
that's going to tell you thatit's time to move on and you're
going to have to make thatcommitment.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You can't back out of it.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So either people that were with you come along or you
kind of fade off without them,and it's not a choice, it's just
how it happens, you know, it'sjust natural.
So the only way you're going togrow is to let go of the places
you were and focus on theplaces you want to be, and I
think that's the way you got todo it as a chef.
So put down the tweezers, okay.
It's okay to use the same knifefor three different things.
(17:48):
You don't need a chef roll thatyou got to take out every time
you're going to cut this withthat and this with that, just to
show everybody you have thenewest fucking knife.
You know what I mean.
How about you learn how to honeit properly?
You don't need three frigging,three levels of wet stones to
sharpen your knife every day, infront of everybody when you get
there.
It's all fucking nonsense.
It's all nonsense.
When you're really in thekitchen working your ass off,
(18:09):
you'll sharpen your knife whenit needs a fucking edge.
You know what I mean.
You'll hone it in between cutsbecause you don't have time to
sharpen it with that fuckingthing.
We all do it, okay.
There's a difference, though.
You're doing it for show oryou're doing it for necessity
there.
If you keep doing it for show,go show your show pony, go ahead
Out of necessity those arepeople who grow, that's it.
(18:32):
All right.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, I like that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Good, good to the point.
Discussion today.
Yeah, I like it.
You feel better.
Large and small, you ready, I'mready, all right?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Well, there we go.
So, yeah, go on.
If you have any comments, dropthem below, like, subscribe,
share and support everyone inthe industry, and we appreciate
you guys being with us smashingbuttons like buttons smash don't
pass.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Smash don't pass all right, ciao for now.
Ciao.
All right, Hello everybody.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello Kristen, Cheers on our coffee.
Here we go again.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Child, I got seat.
That's everybody out there.
Guys, how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Fabulous I know.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
So today we're going to talk about some more stuff.
Again, we're going to talkabout ourselves, with ourselves,
to ourselves, without a panel.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Well, there's no.
Yeah, the guest today is youand your insight.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Hi, hi, nice to meet you.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Welcome, chef Tony, to the show.
It's nice to Glad I'm here,glad I could make it.
I was fucking busy today.
We set aside time, so you arebusy.
You're busy all the time.
So that takes us right intotoday's topic.
So we're going to talk aboutkind of the cost of becoming a
chef and what chefs can reallyexpect, because it's not all
glory and fame.
(00:58):
So where do you want to startwith the cost of becoming a chef
?
Is it something you see more of?
What do you like?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Well, first is the terminology of the word chef.
We've already discussed thatbefore in previous episodes.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
But we are in season three.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So all those people who are just turning into this
or tuning into this.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Go back.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Go back to season one , check it out, but until then,
we'll give you a quick recap.
There's a definition and a termfor being a chef, and then
there's everyone else's opinionof it.
Okay, we all know that being achef, if you want to be
certified in chef, if you're atthe ACF or anything like that,
there are certificationqualifications that you need to
follow.
To become a chef, you need torun a crew of so many people for
(01:36):
so long, you have to have somany teaching hours, you have to
have so many hours of training.
There are a lot of things tohaving the term chef as a
certification.
Then comes the word chef Anyonewho works in a fucking kitchen
and cooks, that's a chef.
Now you know what I'm saying.
So anyone who fucking friesanything from chicken wings, you
could be the chef of a fuckingsports bar and you're going to
(01:58):
call yourself a chef.
You could be a food truck chef.
You can be the chef of afucking social media.
You can be a food truck chef.
You can be the chef of afucking social media.
You can do whatever you want,just say you're a chef.
So the word chef now is just aterm for somebody who simply
cooks.
I think, I think that's whereit went.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
The bastardized term.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
The bastardized term.
So let's talk about the chefswho want to be known as a chef.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah Well, sacrifice.
Let's start with sacrifice,because people go into this
thinking it's going to be fun.
Well, you're never sacrificedanything.
They think it's going to be fun.
I can go out and party everynight.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I can you know?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
do what I want, and is that a misconception?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
we've seen more recently.
Well, I don't know if that's amisconception.
I think that's true, becausethat's really what's happening.
I think the misconception isthat they're going to do all
that and then be famous.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
So I think that's what it is.
I think people want to beeverybody.
It's not think.
I know, I fucking know, and youknow everybody wants to be
famous, everybody no matter whatyou're doing If you're a
mechanic, you want to be afamous mechanic guy around town.
If you're a race car driver, youwant to be the one that beats
out the next guy.
To be famous and people can sayit's for the passion love.
All they want to, but you climbto the top of your love by
(03:04):
being recognized for being suchin such love does it make sense?
yeah.
So being being a chef is is noteasy, because the work that
goes into it is so involved andso grueling that it just gets.
It gets jaded out by peoplewith this fantasy.
Okay, and what I want to tellpeople is this You're not going
(03:27):
to fucking do it.
You're not going to do it.
You're not going to be thecelebrity chef you want to be.
You're not going to be the mostrecognized chef in the fucking
world.
You're not going to be the mostrecognized chef in your fucking
city.
You don't have the right to dothat.
Who makes that happen is thefucking city itself, the people
in it and everything else.
(03:47):
All you can do is work your assoff every day, consistently.
Okay, what people get jaded on,kristen, is this.
They get the um.
They look at like GrantAckett's, thomas Keller, uh, all
these people who have hugeaccolades.
Now, I can go on forever withthese, the Michelin star chefs,
the James Baird chefs.
I can go on forever with these,the Michelin star chefs, the
James Baird chefs.
I attribute it to, like the.
(04:07):
I'm going to use the MichaelJordan thing.
Okay, michael Jordan is aphenomenal basketball player.
Wayne Gretzky is amazing athockey.
So much good at it so muchbetter at it, naturally, that
it's worth the conversation overeverybody else in the fucking
world who plays basketball orplays hockey Right, and that
goes in any industry else in thefucking world who plays
basketball or plays hockey right?
And that goes in any industry.
So they have something thatMichelin chefs have.
(04:30):
Okay, michelin chefs aremasters of what they do.
It's a gastro type of moleculartype of cooking that they're
being judged on.
Now I have people come out oftime saying are you ever going
to get a Michelin star?
Absolutely not.
I'm not even in the samecaliber of that type of cooking.
I'm not in that realm at all.
My style of cooking has nothingto do with that.
(04:52):
So I don't try and go for that.
I don't compare myself to that.
But a lot of people who don'tunderstand it are the ones who
do.
You know, and it's big now withsocial media, with the aprons
and the fucking tweezers and allthese little things.
And I'm not bashing that,because if that's what they want
(05:17):
to do, look, if you don't knowhow to use a pair of tongs to do
five different things in fivedifferent saute pans at the same
fucking time, you have nobusiness holding a tweezer with
a micro green in it, I'll slapit right out of your hand.
You know what I mean.
If you can't run a pastastation, jump over to the fry
real quick to pull out a cutletthat needs to be sauced over
with this and you're doing allthis.
There's no saucier and there'sno person on fish.
That's all beautiful fantasykitchen work, right.
That's been exposed to us inbooks, magazines, social media.
(05:38):
Yeah, things like that.
That's the fantasy world andit's out there, don't get me
wrong.
But it's such a small percentover the millions of restaurants
and millions of people workingin them.
So whatever happened to thenormal grinding chef?
That's what I want to know.
Where is their recognition?
So we don't have a recognitionsystem.
We don't.
You either have to berecognized for being the
(05:59):
absolute best of the best, whichwould be Michelin, which would
be the Michael Jordan type thing.
But there's so many otherpeople playing basketball in the
world and they're all good andthey're all good.
Go to a park in any city andwork your way up the park.
From recreation.
You have the best guys inrecreation.
Go to D1, college, high school,mba, semi-pro, european.
(06:19):
You have people all over theworld who are great, but
everyone emphasizes on onebecause he was so good.
That's the same type of thing.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
With the chef world.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But not everybody can be that.
Just go to work and shut thefuck up, man.
Go to work.
Look at these people Read theirbooks.
It doesn't mean you're going toemulate their life.
You're not going to.
It's very hard to make apaycheck, make a living and also
convince somebody that you'reso good that they're going to
open up a $2 million restaurantfor you so you can go use your
tweezers For you.
It's not going to happen, man,it's so.
(06:48):
I can't say it's not going tohappen, but the percentage of it
happening are lightning strikesWell it's the same as your kid.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Like everybody thinks their kid's going to be the
next pro, whatever sport playerLike oh, my kid's so good, my
kid doesn't good, my kid does.
No, they're.
They're really not they're,they're fairly average.
But the people who stand outstand out because they are that
exceptional at it or they justhave like that je ne sais quoi,
like they have that thing, likewhatever it is, they have a
thing.
And I think a lot of peoplehave been spoiled by seeing the
(07:15):
television shows, seeing thesepeople make money which
technically they really didn'tmake money off of in the
beginning.
So all of that has kind of beennewer, I guess, guess, to the
industry, because we reallydidn't have I mean, when we were
growing up we didn't have anyshows like that, like travel
shows.
So that's, it's changed a lot.
I've seen it change.
I think that just creates alittle bit of the misconception.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, and what it is is, like you said, not not
everybody's going to getrecognition.
Not every chef is gonna getfamous or newsworthy or gonna
get recognized with awards.
There's not really a lot ofaward systems.
And here's the other problemhere, folks, let me explain this
to you.
Every city has an award or acontest type system.
Everything, every city, but alot of cities, especially ours
(08:00):
here they all don't take itserious.
Yeah, they don't take itserious.
So if you have a thing where youcan call in and vote, let's say
the best of your city everycity has it the best of.
A lot of chefs don't take itseriously or they think it's a
joke because it could be rigged.
It could be that it could bethis, but the way I look at it
is, if you're not willing totake on that challenge, you
don't deserve the uppercontests't work that way.
(08:24):
You know what I'm saying.
If you're not going to acceptthe fact that somebody won the
best of because the city voted.
Well, they voted, whether youlike it or not.
Everybody had a category andthere's seven people in that
category, so you had sevenchances to get voted for and you
got voted on it and you won.
So it doesn't matter what theaward system, whether it's from
by the people or by a panel, orby a judging committee or by a
(08:47):
secret shopper, it doesn'tmatter, you still have to win.
And if you're not willing toparticipate in the competitions
at your local level, the lowestlevel, how are you going to hold
yourself up to being celebratedor recognized at the highest
level?
You can't.
You have to work your way upthrough each incremental level
of competition.
(09:07):
Whether it's a call-in votefrom fucking 27 people or a
blind tasting, it doesn't matter.
You know what I mean.
You have to be willing tounderstand that the people out
there have the right to speakfor you, and if you don't want
to partake in it, then don'ttalk about no fucking Michelin
stars and everything else.
You don't even know what you'retalking about.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
You know what I mean.
We talked about this kind ofseason one where you said, as a
chef like you're winning everynight with the people who come
through the door because it'sit's actual physical response.
People are actually taking timeout of their day to drive and
see you and sit down and eat andsupport you as different than
online popularity, becauseonline popularity doesn't mean
shit.
You're not making any money offof those people unless you have
(09:50):
some kind of good to sell them,so you have to be butts in
seats.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And you're not getting a real loyal commitment
either.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
No, it's flying, You're sitting on a toilet.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
You're sitting on the airplane, you're doing whatever
you're doing.
You hit like you, move on.
You hit like you, move on.
You hit like you, move on.
It's very easy to sit on thefloor in your house while your
kids are playing fucking andlike you, know playing games and
shit and for you to just likesomething.
And if a million people likesomething, that doesn't mean a
hundred of them are coming togive you a dollar no you know
what I mean.
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Doesn't mean anything they don't walk through your
doors.
That that is for any chef,regardless of awards.
You can win all the awards inthe world, but if you don't have
people coming in yourrestaurant, what good are you?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Exactly, I mean you.
Really it's a full package.
Now I wish there was and I hopethere is going to be at some
point in time, an award or arecognition, not so much an
award.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I'm sorry More for like state local.
For just normal people.
Where are the normal chefs?
Or you mean no, hold on,clarifyify normal, because you
mean just not with the moleculargastro-infused type shell.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah right, let's just talk about the
restauranteurs who are out thereputting out a nice product with
their own twist on it, don'tget me wrong.
But they're following whateverhappened to celebration of
normal cooking, traditionalcooking.
Now you take a piece of basil,you blow it down, you break it
down, add nitrous oxygen to it.
Whatever you're going to do,you're going to foam it out and
you're going to bring it back tolife, and now it's a basil
(11:11):
foaming whatever.
And that's great.
Don't get me wrong, I'm notknocking that.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I like that food too.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I'm not knocking it.
It's a very big skill.
It's more of a science.
It is what it is through aThanksgiving turkey.
See what I'm saying?
It's just a different type ofthing and I'm not good at it.
So what about all the millionsof people who are turning out?
(11:36):
I'm talking about country clubs, hunt rooms, small little
places, mom and pop joints, whoare turning out amazing food,
who aren't getting recognized,but they are putting out food
that should be recognized and itis basically on yelp and stuff.
But you know what?
Where's the award system forthat?
If you're not into all thisstuff, to get recognized by
james beard, if your city's notgood enough to get recognized by
(11:57):
one of these things, ifmichelin doesn't consider your
city good enough to fucking berecognized, you're not even
going to be on the map.
But you could be the best chefin the fucking world, but
because you you live here, we'renot going to pay attention to
you.
What happened to them?
Where are we left?
You see what I'm saying?
We are only left at local.
So you got to take advantage oflocal situations and the local
people walking through yourdoors.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I think most of the local show I mean most of them
know about it.
It's just going out of your wayto do it, cause some people get
locked in like in the kitchenwhere they're not you know,
they're not looking at expandingtheir brand outside of it.
So you have to kind of hunt forthose opportunities too.
Nobody's going to come and giveyou those opportunities.
So if you're a chef, actuallygo out and actively look at
where you can get recognitionfrom.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
And remember this if you're a chef and you're
creative and you have a goodfollowing behind you, don't get
lost in that.
There's a lot more to it.
There's a lot more to it Ifyou're going to open up and
you're going to leave whereyou're at, to go, open up your
own restaurant, your own thing,and you want to be recognized
and you want to don't forgetyour mentors, don't forget who
brought you there.
There's one thing that peopleask me all the time and that's
(12:59):
like how do you know whensomeone's ready?
It's very easy for me to knowwhen a chef is ready to conquer
the next level, the next levelof commitment, and that's just
simply.
Just go on his fucking socialmedia page, go on their personal
profile and see what they talkabout, and you'll know if
they're ready.
If they're talking about all thegreat things they're doing, how
good they do this and theirpassion for cooking, and they
(13:21):
started here and now they'refucking here.
And if they did all that andstill didn't mention the
restaurant they're working in orthe chef they're working under,
they are not ready.
You are not ready.
You are full of shit and you'refooling yourself because you
honestly think in your mindyou're doing all this on your
own, you're forgetting thefoundation that your house is
(13:42):
built on and that's how I knowright there and then.
So if you go in there and thatprobably relates to any industry
I'd imagine that probably goeseverywhere, right?
But that's what I do.
I look right on their socialmedia and see how I talk about,
how they talk about them, howthey talk about themselves, and
I can tell if I have an athletecoming and they're going to be a
sous chef or they're going towork under me or something like
that.
I just go right to their socialmedia page and I just watch it.
(14:02):
I don't tell them, I'm nevertelling them, I watch all of
them.
I'm never telling you what I see.
I just see if I feel you'reready to move on or not, if
you're going to be mycompetition in the next year or
two or not.
And most of the time they'renot, because they're not ready
to accept the fact that theydidn't get hair alone and
someone else is helping them andthey have a mentor and they
have someone else's style yourstyle.
(14:27):
If you worked in a place forfive years and your plating
looks the same and the foodlooks the same and you're just
rubbing off, dude, you don'thave that.
You, you got to understand.
Now you go on the same socialmedia page and they say I have
to give all my respect to this.
My mentor taught me this.
I'm so proud.
I can't wait to move on.
I'm ready to move on by myself.
Um, I'm so thankful for allI've learned here.
Now you're talking.
(14:48):
Now you're ready.
Now you're going to get supportfrom me because you're right,
you can't be with me forever,you can't take my style forever
and you're going to create yourown style and your own palette
and you're going to move on.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
And we know it's an incestuous, tight knit business.
So you don't want to burn yourbridges by doing those kinds of
things Exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
So when somebody says they're going to move on and
they give no credit to wherethey just came from for the last
three or four years, that's ared flag for me, because I can
still look back and tell you allthe people who influenced me
and I've always said it thewhole time, but it took me until
I was almost 30, in my early40s, to admit it.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
It's part of growth, part of aging.
With age comes wisdom, right,yeah, like fine wine?
I think that, yeah, and you aregoing to have to sacrifice,
like a moth to the flame.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Yeah, this discussion was kind of like Birds with
desire.
Oh, my God, you know what thatJanet Jackson?
I'm sure that's the way lovegoes.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
This is when things go off the rails and we got to
end it.
We just got to end it.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
But yeah, I think so Any any last words on.
You know sacrifice and and justkeep grinding to get that
recognition.
You're not going to be able togain and keep everything you
have.
Sorry, this industry, thisworld, typically doesn't allow
that.
You're going to have tosacrifice, whether it be your
free time, your family.
Sometimes everything comes witha sacrifice.
So if you want to advance in aculinary world and move up by
(16:20):
opening another restaurant orgrowing another kitchen or
spreading yourself into anotherpart of the industry, any chance
or any, any, any growth youmake or any move you make,
you're going to have to leavesomething.
As you succeed in a kitchen orin a restaurant industry,
typically it comes monetary.
You succeed by seeing yourmonetary value and your growth.
With that comes a new visionand the way you used to look at
(16:43):
life when you were working isdifferent than now.
You're creating jobs for otherpeople.
You see avenues you don't seethe same.
You could be married for amultiple amount of years and
when this happens it's happeningto you and not us.
So sometimes you split there andthere's a lot of things that go
on where you you don't see lifethe same way you did 10 years
(17:04):
ago when you first got married,and now you're starting to see a
whole different vision ofwhat's out there, and that
person ain't along on the sameroad, right?
So those things are going tohappen and you have to be ready
for it and you have to be committo it and you have to make that
devil handshake, I guess youcould say and you're going to
shake a hand with somebody onsome fake ass contract somewhere
that's going to tell you thatit's time to move on and you're
going to have to make thatcommitment.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
You can't back out of it.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
So either people that were with you come along or you
kind of fade off without them,and it's not a choice, it's just
how it happens, you know, it'sjust natural.
So the only way you're going togrow is to let go of the places
you were and focus on theplaces you want to be, and I
think that's the way you got todo it as a chef.
So put down the tweezers, okay.
It's okay to use the same knifefor three different things.
(17:48):
You don't need a chef roll thatyou got to take out every time
you're going to cut this withthat and this with that, just to
show everybody you have thenewest fucking knife.
You know what I mean.
How about you learn how to honeit properly?
You don't need three frigging,three levels of wet stones to
sharpen your knife every day, infront of everybody when you get
there.
It's all fucking nonsense.
It's all nonsense.
When you're really in thekitchen working your ass off,
(18:09):
you'll sharpen your knife whenit needs a fucking edge.
You know what I mean.
You'll hone it in between cutsbecause you don't have time to
sharpen it with that fuckingthing.
We all do it, okay.
There's a difference, though.
You're doing it for show oryou're doing it for necessity
there.
If you keep doing it for show,go show your show pony, go ahead
Out of necessity those arepeople who grow, that's it.
(18:32):
All right.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Well, I like that.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Good, good to the point.
Discussion today.
Yeah, I like it.
You feel better.
Large and small, you ready, I'mready, all right?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Well, there we go.
So, yeah, go on.
If you have any comments, dropthem below, like, subscribe,
share and support everyone inthe industry, and we appreciate
you guys being with us smashingbuttons like buttons smash don't
pass.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Smash don't pass all right, ciao for now.
Ciao.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!