So what should you expect going into the kitchen? Chef Tony and KC get real on what the current pay scale is and how that has changed over the decades in the business. If you are a new chef, line cook, dishwasher...listen up!
The harsh realities of restaurant economics create a ceiling on staff compensation, described as "squeezing water from a rock," with limits on what businesses can reasonably pay. Regional variations, experience levels, position types, and restaurant categories all significantly impact earning potential in the industry. Plus, the current mindset of doing less for more and my mental health means not stressing out ever bullsh!t has created more demand for good talent and opened the door for those that DO want to work.
Here's a quick breakdown of the convo:
• Fast food chains paying $16-18 hourly create recruitment challenges for traditional restaurants
• Line cooks with 4-5 years of experience should expect around $18-20 hourly in mid-market regions
• Front-of-house positions like bartending or serving can yield anywhere from $100 to $1,000+ nightly
• Job descriptions represent only the bare minimum expectations (never do the bare minimum!)
• Raises aren't automatic based on time served but require demonstrating additional value
• Professional certifications (ServSafe, ACF, wine education) significantly increase earning potential
• Current industry conditions create opportunity for ambitious workers, as many expect more for less
Want to make more money in restaurants? Go beyond basic expectations, pursue professional certifications, and make yourself "unobtainable" through education and excellence.
What are you seeing in YOUR area? Please share below so we can continue this conversation and help those coming up in the restaurant industry manage expectations!
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*The views and opinions on this show are meant for entertainment purposes only. They do not reflect the views of our sponsors. We are not here to babysit your feelings, if you are a true industry pro, you will know that what we say is meant to make you laugh and have a great time. If you don't get that, this is not the podcast for you. You've been warned. Enjoy the ride!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Action.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Blacked out today.
I know we are blacked out.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's a blackout, it works.
You know why?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Because we're talking about money today.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
We are talking about money.
We're talking about money.
We're talking about thedarkness.
The darkness of the industry,the darkness of people's
emotional strain.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The depths of the money.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
The money, Money, money money.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Can we play that while this is playing?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We got to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
If someone wants to sponsor the music.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Please let us know how about.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Fuck Bitches Get Money, can we play?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
that.
I love that too.
Sure, Get money.
So the topic of today'sdiscussion is the industry in
general Pay scales, what peoplecan expect coming into it,
what's good, what's bad, howit's changed.
So I think, what Is that all ofit?
Are you cutting me?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
off.
No, I'm saying that's the cut.
Like money just sucks.
Cutting is death.
He's trying to cut me offalready.
I don't know why I'm doing it.
I'm just like I don't like it,you don't like it, I don't like
it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, it's a part of life.
It's part of life regular, youknow, nine to fives.
They don't.
They're then paying taxes,different things, and they're
not making as much.
So I think it'll be good forpeople who want to come into the
industry.
So we can focus on the kitchenpart of it first oh yeah, let's
(01:13):
do it what do you want to?
what do you want to tell thenewcomers or the, you know, the
wannabes coming up that areexpecting the moon when they
they get out of school or theygraduate or they get their first
job?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
and they don't want to do work.
It's not even graduating.
Yeah, it starts right at highschool kids coming in all the
way up through the chains, theranks.
I think the only ones whounderstand where it really is
are those who've been in theindustry long enough, have like
a tenure in it, you know, yeah,Because they understand the
reality of it, of it.
(01:50):
I don't know where or how orwhy people think that a
restaurant can produce so muchmoney that it's going to pay
them these outrageous salariesthat they think they're going to
get.
There's only so much, right.
We have a cap for everything.
Each category has a percentagewe have to operate, whether it's
wine sales, the bar, the food,the miscellaneous, all that shit
it all has its own.
It's a rock and it has so muchwater in it, right?
And you can only squeeze somuch water out of that rock.
(02:13):
So when people are coming intothis industry and they want all
these astronomical figuresdishwashers wanting $20 an hour,
line cooks with no experienceat all wanting $18, $20, $30 an
hour it's unrealistic.
It's unrealistic.
It's unrealistic.
You don't know what the fuckyou're doing.
First of all, let's just startthere.
Just because you show up at ajob doesn't mean you're worth
(02:34):
the fucking time.
It's not.
Not in this industry.
Now there's other industriesthat we're up against the corner
.
That's why I'm wearing blacktoday.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You're mourning, are you in mourning?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, I want to say this first I wish I was in a
position to pay everybody theabsolute maximum.
That's what I really wish,because everybody would come to
work happy.
We'd all be happy, we'd be abig thing.
It would be, everybody would.
The fruits of the labor wouldbe out there, everything would
be great.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
But doors would be closed.
Everything would be a veryshort amount of time there so
what's safe to say?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I mean, look, people want raises for out for not
doing more.
People want more for not evendoing anything.
Yeah, people want to walk inthe door with these astronomical
figures of well, I'm looking tomake 70 grand a year.
Wait a minute, you're 20.
Yeah, you're 20.
And where are you making that?
Now?
What are you comparing this to?
I understand, I want to make$170.
(03:28):
I want to make $200,000 a year.
What the fuck does that mean?
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And it's also regional, so we should say we're
in Virginia.
So I mean this obviously varies, like New York cost of living,
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Like there's always scales on this.
Yeah, of course, right, right.
So when I was young, I remembergetting my first sous chef
position and I was so fuckingexcited.
I was offered 38 000 a year.
Okay, couldn't have beenhappier that was, and that was a
little.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
That was a lot of money back then, yeah, and I
made it.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I didn't even need to go to executive chef.
At this point.
I was like fucking loving life,right.
I didn't love it after aboutsix months because it just
became the same zeros behind itin the same.
I just added everything I wasbroke for before.
I just ran right back up tothat same level because you're
young and immature anyway, soyou're never satisfying your
money right.
So, you know, I went to theowner and I said look, I need
more money.
(04:15):
Um, I would like to have araise.
I've been here doing this forsix months.
Everything's going good.
And he looked at me and says no, that's not even an option,
dude, that wasn't part of theagreement.
You know, the agreement wasyou'd work for this.
This is what I was raising youup to.
This is what I hired you for.
That's what the position offers.
Yeah, and at the time I didn'tunderstand.
I thought he was takingadvantage of me, I was being an
asshole, so on and so forth,working 60 70 hours a week.
(04:37):
That was just what it was, andI was grateful for making that
money when I first got it.
But when I ran through it, Iexpected more for nothing.
I really didn't do anythingmore.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You weren't going above and beyond.
I didn't do nothing more, Ifanything.
I learned how to be late.
I learned how, yeah, I canadmit it now you have to.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, so a lot of people don't admit it.
You just learn how to get towork late.
You learn when to go out andtake a break longer.
You learn how to put offtomorrow's prep for today.
Those are all the things youlearn in the restaurant industry
, and the younger you are, thefaster you learn that part.
It's very rare that someoneexceeds so much that you look at
them and say, hey, you're worthanother five grand a year.
(05:14):
Right now no one wants to saythat because it's it's hard.
You really have to work hard atthat.
But what do you expect when youwalk into a place in this
industry?
I mean, what do you think?
Kids?
You have a kid, a child thatworks here.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, my daughter works here and so pay scale-wise
, yeah, I mean it's on par witheverything in the area.
But other people have becomemore competitive because it is
harder to get people to stay atwork, so they're upping it to,
you know, 15, 16 bucks an hour.
You know, since it fell through, minimum wage didn't get raised
to that.
You know it's still minimumwage for most people, obviously.
(05:53):
Well, minimum wage when youstarted with your first job,
what was minimum wage then?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
$4.
$4, and I think it was $3.87.
It moved up to $4.25.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, mine was $3.75, $3.75 for my first job and that
was what I got paid hourly.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That was hourly.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Now, that's kind of server pay.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know you're expecting that you didn't have
to live on that back then,because back then most kids
making that money were kids.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
It was kids.
For the most part, it wasBecause even back then it was
very rare.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So when made minimum wage because it was so low,
right, Kids did, of course, butadults still.
They made seven, six $7 an hour, which still isn't shit, but it
was double minimum wage backthen.
Yeah, and this is again, thisis in the nineties Like.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
this is when you know it started to cost a living,
started going up a little bitand then they slowly raised it,
but in the restaurant.
So I think, as it is, it variesgreatly based on type of
restaurant, the amount of workyou want to put into it.
If you're front of house, backof house, I mean, I can say the
variations in nightly money thatI brought in bartending varied
(06:58):
anywhere from working at Hooterswhere some shifts you only made
$100, $200, to nights wheremost of my average nights were
$350 to $550 a night.
That was my average of what Iwas taking home after working.
Some nights you made thousands.
I mean, it just depended onwhich type of restaurant.
But I always made more money ina better quality clientele
(07:18):
versus turn and burn where I wasringing $3,500 and only walking
out with $300, $400 because Ihad to split it with everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What hurts us now is the fast food world.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, they have upped hourly quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
They're getting $16 to $18 an hour.
This is not a joke.
These are kids.
They're killing it and thoseplaces are killing us because
they walk in here now saying,well, I can just go work at
so-and-so Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And just stand in one spot.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You're not wrong, you could.
But what you got to realize isthese fast food chains majority
of them all are using.
They're making so much moneynow, more than they ever did,
because now they're getting awaywith murder.
Literally they're killingpeople with the food they're
serving.
The food is at the absoluteworst, the quality is at the
absolute lowest, the process ofmaking the foods they're selling
(08:09):
is pretty much in a factoryright and they're making
hamburger patties for penniesand serving them for more than
they have ever sold them forever.
So of course, you can pay a kid$18 an hour now, because it's
not even fair what they're doingto the human race, to be honest
with you.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well, what if people for regular restaurants versus
fast food right now?
What's the average of peoplecoming in Like as far as
starting base, you know, hourlyand salary, okay good, good call
.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So look, if you're a line cook and you're coming in
with about four or five yearsexperience, you're worth to me
about $18, $20 if you can tossthings around.
That's the first entry level.
That's what it can pretty muchafford.
That's really where you're at.
Sorry, that's where you're atand that's a lot.
Some people are gonna look atme and say you're crazy.
I know a lot of people, sorry,paying line cooks $14 to $18 an
(08:59):
hour, right, and you cannotsurvive that way.
I get it, but you know that'sunfortunately where it's at.
You know you come into arestaurant like mine.
You're going to start offtypically on salary here in my
place.
But you know, even the hourlypeople most of my people are $20
an hour and up, right, but Ivet them to make sure they're
(09:19):
worth that money and they canproduce and they have a passion.
I'm paying them for a serviceand they're all working overtime
hours.
They're all making a decentliving and they all raise up and
they all move forward when theywhen, if they're and when
they're right.
You know, if their eval comesaround and they're the same
person in the same mud hole thatthey were when they started and
haven't moved themselves up.
They're gonna, they're gonnaremain there and they go through
a few evals, a few sessions,sessions or a few um a year or
(09:41):
whatever, and I realized they'renot going to.
They're holding back the restof the team, Right, but the
average person coming in adishwasher man if you're, if
you're pulling in 14 to $17 anhour, you're doing good here.
I pay more than that becausethey're valuable, right?
You have two different thingsyou got to look at.
When someone hires people whoare hiring that are producing
money and people who are a cost.
(10:02):
Okay, a cook who is good isgoing to help you produce money.
They're going to put the foodon the table.
That's what people are there tobuy.
A dishwasher is going to cleanthe plate.
We need it.
It needs to be done it's anecessity but what they're doing
is not generating money.
It's costing money to have thatservice.
Almost like linens they look,look good, they're nice, but
(10:24):
they just cost money.
They cost a lot of money.
So for them to do their job,they just have to sit there For
a dishwasher to do their job.
They have to do a lot of work.
They're very important, they'renecessary, but all in all, the
job they're doing isn't bringingmoney on the table right.
It's an expense, so we have tobe careful of that.
It's easier to give more moneyto people who are creating more
(10:46):
money.
A good bar team, a good staff,a sommelier with a high end rate
of pay Based on sales, based onsales and you get a percentage
of sales.
Yeah, they are bringing thesales in, so it's easier to pay
them based off of what they'redoing, off of the court number
(11:08):
offended.
If you walk into a restaurant,look at, read the room, read
your situation, read your, readyour rank, right.
If you walk in and you're notreally, if you're a maintenance
person in the building, um,again, that's an expense.
We need it, it's necessary, ithas to be done, but it could be
budgeted and it could be broughtto someone else who can do it
for cheaper.
That's one of those things.
What you're doing is notgenerating money.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It's not going to generate extra revenue based on
those necessities, right?
So anybody else that cangenerate extra revenue can make
more money off of that revenue.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
If you're a line cook going to get a job, you need to
accept the job where you wantto be, but you need to work hard
, and I'm using the word linecook.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
But again let's redefine what work hard means,
because people think that ifyou're here, you know 10 hour
shift, that's working hard.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That's what people think, that's what they think
yeah.
But they're not working shit.
They're just here for 10 hoursand they think that's my problem
.
You're getting paid for it.
The compensation's there.
What you do in that 10 hours isthe whole difference of where
you're going to be next year.
You know what I mean.
If you come in, put your coffeedown, get your coffee.
I'll use that hypothetically.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Put your knife roll down, put your chef coat on, get
everything ready, okay, andwithin 10 minutes you're already
working, prepping.
You have your checklist.
You walk in with a bus tub orsomething, or your apron, and
you fill it with the majority ofwhat you need already.
Bring it back, start your prep.
Get your list done.
Now you're now.
(12:28):
You're cocked Now.
You're now.
You're cooking.
Right Now.
You're the type of person who'sworking smart, which is also
working hard to me, okay,working hard and smarter.
The same type of thing you knowyou can work harder than others
physically but smartly isyou're going to do it right.
Yeah, how many times are yougoing to do that?
When you're done your prep list, what are you doing for the
next person?
What are you doing to setyourself up for when we close
down?
What are you doing to make thisproduct better?
Anything you can do to help thesous chef or anything else.
(12:51):
Those are things that are goingto get you paid more when you
come in and just do your prepbecause you're so routine.
You just want to get it done.
You want to go outside andsmoke cigarettes.
You.
You want to go out and talk toyour girlfriend on the phone.
You got your air pod in becausethat's more important than what
you're doing.
You're bitching about the otherguy next to you, or you stop
cutting mushrooms every time,every fourth mushroom to talk
(13:13):
about the game last night.
Productivity, productivity.
Those are all the things thatare going to hold you back.
So don't be mad when you don'tget your raise because you've
been somewhere.
You're not going to get a raisefrom me just because you were
here.
What you do while you're here.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Or just because of an amount of time, like people
expect.
Every year they do a raise.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, I've been here for a year and I'm still making
the same money.
No, you've been here for a yearand you're still doing the same
shit.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You haven't done anything above and beyond.
So let's clarify that your jobdescription is the bare minimum,
the bare minimum.
I think that's what people needto understand.
Your job description is thebare minimum.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So when you walk into a kitchen and you sit down and
you have that interview or yoursecond interview and you finally
get on, if you go through astage or something, everyone's
excited and happy yeah, I can'twait, it's going to be great.
So much better than my otherplace.
We know the story right.
So if you come in, in and yousign the agreement, here we are,
I'm going to give you X amount.
There's room to move.
(14:05):
Trust me, it's all that dependson you.
Yes, I love it.
Thank you, chef, yes, chef, yes, chef, yes, chef.
And they come in and theycontinuously do exactly what we
talked about.
I don't care if you're doingthat for two years.
You're doing exactly what weagreed upon.
So until you do more than whatwe agreed upon, I'm not going to
give you more than what weagreed upon.
(14:26):
So until you do more than whatwe agreed upon, I'm not going to
give you more than what weagreed upon.
It's that simple.
So don't get so mad every timea chef or an owner or something
just you think they're beingtaken advantage of.
Honestly assess what you'redoing.
Honestly assess, prove to them.
Show a log, show a journal,have something.
You know what I mean.
Have something.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I think it's like when you talk about every
business for employeedevelopment should have some
type of KPIs in place.
So you need key performanceindicators and whatever that
strategy may be.
So if it's for front of houseeasier because wine sales okay
yeah, I, this is.
This is what your KPIs are.
This is the numbers you need tohit monthly.
Anything over that generatesthis percent, anything over like
(15:01):
those are easier to track right.
So output and just general,like you know, just going above
and beyond, are your kind ofkpis in the kitchen right, so
it's a little bit different, butand it's harder to track
sometimes because you're notseeing everything it's not hard
to track if they take incentives.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So initiative rather.
So if, look, I get certifiedall the time for things.
I don't even need them.
I've got what I need.
I've worked my ass off, butthere are programs out there.
You can go get certified allthe time for things.
I don't even need them.
I've got what I need.
I've worked my ass off, butthere are programs out there.
You can go get certified inServeSafe.
You can get food managerqualifications.
You can get qualified toactually teach.
You can go to the ACF and getcertified as a sous chef or a
kitchen call me.
You can get certified as anexecutive.
(15:38):
There are certifications uponcertifications that you can go
get while you're working, and ifyou bring those to your
employer, right, they're goingto look at you and see you have
motivation.
If you stay stagnant all thetime and then expect more,
you're never going to get it.
But in the time you wereworking for me, if you come to
me with three or four differentcertificates that you went out
on your own, you are nowvaluable to me, true?
(15:58):
If you go off somewhere else,you are now going to be my
competition.
So If you go off somewhere else, you are now going to be my
competition, so I'm going tokeep you here.
Because of your certifications,you know what I mean and that's
the type of person that's goingto get the money and get the
raise, get the education.
I went and got my wine levelone quarter masters just because
I wanted to have what it is.
I expect my staff to do youwanted an understanding of it, I
(16:20):
want to understand it and Iwant to actually do it too.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
these are things you need to go get even as a server.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
If you get your, you know you go and get your level
one or you work in this just tolearn more about the product
you're selling you will, in turn, sell more and you will
generate more sales and you haveyour desired and you and you
have um, there's something aboutyou that people want to have,
right, so so that's where it'sat.
If you want more money in thechef industry or the culinary
industry, you need to go again.
(16:43):
You need to go get stuffyourself to make yourself almost
unobtainable by other people.
You need to make yourself.
So I have you, I want you, Ineed you here.
But if you're just sittingaround thinking that because
you've been here for a year anda half, you're supposed to get
more no, I was supposed to getmore.
This is a two-way street, man.
It's a twoway fucking street.
And if you're still slingingthe same saute pan with the same
(17:04):
sloppy apron and the same dirtyshoes, that is not going to get
you more.
It's only going to get you in.
You're here, we have anunderstanding.
Okay, let's do it.
That's cool.
I'll pay your paycheck, you domy work, and until one of us had
enough of each other it's goingto continue that.
But if you want to make moremoney in this industry, which
you absolutely can make yourselfseem unobtainable, go, get more
(17:25):
.
Get more, make yourselfvaluable.
That's what I got to say aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
No, I think that's a great point.
I think that it's just thatgenerationally, like we've seen,
you know, and we don't like to,it's not generalizing, we don't
dog on everybody, but as anoverall, everybody right now is
expecting a lot more money forless because they think they can
go do it online.
Well then, go start yourOnlyFans and do it that way then
, because this is not the workthat you need to be doing.
(17:50):
If you want easy money that youdon't have to do shit for, go
start OnlyFans Chef Edition.
I don't know what the hell.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
There are people who do that shit?
They cook naked, they do allsorts of OnlyPans.
Can we copyright that?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
if it's on the podcast, so, so we said it first
, so it's copyright today isyeah, so this is april 2025.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
We have copyrighted only fans so listen, if you want
to make more money and you haveto do more work, you have to
make yourself more valuable.
Yeah, everyone out there wantsmore, more and more and more.
The problem is, so many peoplewant more for less that we have
a lot more to offer people whogo get it.
They're just not.
You're not going to entice me.
I'm going to give you exactlywhat we agreed upon.
If you don't do anything more,you're not getting anything more
(18:33):
.
If you go get a little bit moreright now, you're going to get
more because nobody is doing it.
You have no competition.
Get off your lazy ass and youwill be the best because there's
no competition out there.
Nobody's doing it.
Make yourself better today, dotcom.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Dot com.
You could stand out more todaythan you could ever in the past
because of that Because peoplejust don't want to do fucking
work.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Everything's still there.
The avenues are still wide open.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Still there.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Just get off your ass and go get it.
That's how you're going to makemore money in the chef world.
That's it.
That's all I got.
That's what you got on pay.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Okay, that's it.
Yeah, all right, should we justend it with that?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Is that the end?
That's it, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Okay, he's finished everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I'm going to put on a white shirt.
Work more, work more, getanother job.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Stop squeezing water out of a fucking rock man.
Squeeze it, Squeeze it.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Keep squeezing, nothing's coming out.
Replace the rock man, get a wetone.
Ciao for now.
Ciao.
Action.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Blacked out today.
I know we are blacked out.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
It's a blackout, it works.
You know why?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Because we're talking about money today.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
We are talking about money.
We're talking about money.
We're talking about thedarkness.
The darkness of the industry,the darkness of people's
emotional strain.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
The depths of the money.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
The money, Money, money money.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Can we play that while this is playing?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
We got to pay for it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
If someone wants to sponsor the music.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Please let us know how about.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Fuck Bitches Get Money, can we play?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
that.
I love that too.
Sure, Get money.
So the topic of today'sdiscussion is the industry in
general Pay scales, what peoplecan expect coming into it,
what's good, what's bad, howit's changed.
So I think, what Is that all ofit?
Are you cutting me?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
off.
No, I'm saying that's the cut.
Like money just sucks.
Cutting is death.
He's trying to cut me offalready.
I don't know why I'm doing it.
I'm just like I don't like it,you don't like it, I don't like
it.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, it's a part of life.
It's part of life regular, youknow, nine to fives.
They don't.
They're then paying taxes,different things, and they're
not making as much.
So I think it'll be good forpeople who want to come into the
industry.
So we can focus on the kitchenpart of it first oh yeah, let's
(01:13):
do it what do you want to?
what do you want to tell thenewcomers or the, you know, the
wannabes coming up that areexpecting the moon when they
they get out of school or theygraduate or they get their first
job?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
and they don't want to do work.
It's not even graduating.
Yeah, it starts right at highschool kids coming in all the
way up through the chains, theranks.
I think the only ones whounderstand where it really is
are those who've been in theindustry long enough, have like
a tenure in it, you know, yeah,Because they understand the
reality of it, of it.
(01:50):
I don't know where or how orwhy people think that a
restaurant can produce so muchmoney that it's going to pay
them these outrageous salariesthat they think they're going to
get.
There's only so much, right.
We have a cap for everything.
Each category has a percentagewe have to operate, whether it's
wine sales, the bar, the food,the miscellaneous, all that shit
it all has its own.
It's a rock and it has so muchwater in it, right?
And you can only squeeze somuch water out of that rock.
(02:13):
So when people are coming intothis industry and they want all
these astronomical figuresdishwashers wanting $20 an hour,
line cooks with no experienceat all wanting $18, $20, $30 an
hour it's unrealistic.
It's unrealistic.
It's unrealistic.
You don't know what the fuckyou're doing.
First of all, let's just startthere.
Just because you show up at ajob doesn't mean you're worth
(02:34):
the fucking time.
It's not.
Not in this industry.
Now there's other industriesthat we're up against the corner
.
That's why I'm wearing blacktoday.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
You're mourning, are you in mourning?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Well, I want to say this first I wish I was in a
position to pay everybody theabsolute maximum.
That's what I really wish,because everybody would come to
work happy.
We'd all be happy, we'd be abig thing.
It would be, everybody would.
The fruits of the labor wouldbe out there, everything would
be great.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
But doors would be closed.
Everything would be a veryshort amount of time there so
what's safe to say?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I mean, look, people want raises for out for not
doing more.
People want more for not evendoing anything.
Yeah, people want to walk inthe door with these astronomical
figures of well, I'm looking tomake 70 grand a year.
Wait a minute, you're 20.
Yeah, you're 20.
And where are you making that?
Now?
What are you comparing this to?
I understand, I want to make$170.
(03:28):
I want to make $200,000 a year.
What the fuck does that mean?
Right?
Speaker 1 (03:31):
And it's also regional, so we should say we're
in Virginia.
So I mean this obviously varies, like New York cost of living,
that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Like there's always scales on this.
Yeah, of course, right, right.
So when I was young, I remembergetting my first sous chef
position and I was so fuckingexcited.
I was offered 38 000 a year.
Okay, couldn't have beenhappier that was, and that was a
little.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
That was a lot of money back then, yeah, and I
made it.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I didn't even need to go to executive chef.
At this point.
I was like fucking loving life,right.
I didn't love it after aboutsix months because it just
became the same zeros behind itin the same.
I just added everything I wasbroke for before.
I just ran right back up tothat same level because you're
young and immature anyway, soyou're never satisfying your
money right.
So, you know, I went to theowner and I said look, I need
more money.
(04:15):
Um, I would like to have araise.
I've been here doing this forsix months.
Everything's going good.
And he looked at me and says no, that's not even an option,
dude, that wasn't part of theagreement.
You know, the agreement wasyou'd work for this.
This is what I was raising youup to.
This is what I hired you for.
That's what the position offers.
Yeah, and at the time I didn'tunderstand.
I thought he was takingadvantage of me, I was being an
asshole, so on and so forth,working 60 70 hours a week.
(04:37):
That was just what it was, andI was grateful for making that
money when I first got it.
But when I ran through it, Iexpected more for nothing.
I really didn't do anythingmore.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You weren't going above and beyond.
I didn't do nothing more, Ifanything.
I learned how to be late.
I learned how, yeah, I canadmit it now you have to.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah, so a lot of people don't admit it.
You just learn how to get towork late.
You learn when to go out andtake a break longer.
You learn how to put offtomorrow's prep for today.
Those are all the things youlearn in the restaurant industry
, and the younger you are, thefaster you learn that part.
It's very rare that someoneexceeds so much that you look at
them and say, hey, you're worthanother five grand a year.
(05:14):
Right now no one wants to saythat because it's it's hard.
You really have to work hard atthat.
But what do you expect when youwalk into a place in this
industry?
I mean, what do you think?
Kids?
You have a kid, a child thatworks here.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, my daughter works here and so pay scale-wise
, yeah, I mean it's on par witheverything in the area.
But other people have becomemore competitive because it is
harder to get people to stay atwork, so they're upping it to,
you know, 15, 16 bucks an hour.
You know, since it fell through, minimum wage didn't get raised
to that.
You know it's still minimumwage for most people, obviously.
(05:53):
Well, minimum wage when youstarted with your first job,
what was minimum wage then?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
$4.
$4, and I think it was $3.87.
It moved up to $4.25.
Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, mine was $3.75, $3.75 for my first job and that
was what I got paid hourly.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
That was hourly.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Now, that's kind of server pay.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
You know you're expecting that you didn't have
to live on that back then,because back then most kids
making that money were kids.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
It was kids.
For the most part, it wasBecause even back then it was
very rare.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So when made minimum wage because it was so low,
right, Kids did, of course, butadults still.
They made seven, six $7 an hour, which still isn't shit, but it
was double minimum wage backthen.
Yeah, and this is again, thisis in the nineties Like.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
this is when you know it started to cost a living,
started going up a little bitand then they slowly raised it,
but in the restaurant.
So I think, as it is, it variesgreatly based on type of
restaurant, the amount of workyou want to put into it.
If you're front of house, backof house, I mean, I can say the
variations in nightly money thatI brought in bartending varied
(06:58):
anywhere from working at Hooterswhere some shifts you only made
$100, $200, to nights wheremost of my average nights were
$350 to $550 a night.
That was my average of what Iwas taking home after working.
Some nights you made thousands.
I mean, it just depended onwhich type of restaurant.
But I always made more money ina better quality clientele
(07:18):
versus turn and burn where I wasringing $3,500 and only walking
out with $300, $400 because Ihad to split it with everybody.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
What hurts us now is the fast food world.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Yeah, they have upped hourly quite a bit.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
They're getting $16 to $18 an hour.
This is not a joke.
These are kids.
They're killing it and thoseplaces are killing us because
they walk in here now saying,well, I can just go work at
so-and-so Okay.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And just stand in one spot.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
You're not wrong, you could.
But what you got to realize isthese fast food chains majority
of them all are using.
They're making so much moneynow, more than they ever did,
because now they're getting awaywith murder.
Literally they're killingpeople with the food they're
serving.
The food is at the absoluteworst, the quality is at the
absolute lowest, the process ofmaking the foods they're selling
(08:09):
is pretty much in a factoryright and they're making
hamburger patties for penniesand serving them for more than
they have ever sold them forever.
So of course, you can pay a kid$18 an hour now, because it's
not even fair what they're doingto the human race, to be honest
with you.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Well, what if people for regular restaurants versus
fast food right now?
What's the average of peoplecoming in Like as far as
starting base, you know, hourlyand salary, okay good, good call
.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So look, if you're a line cook and you're coming in
with about four or five yearsexperience, you're worth to me
about $18, $20 if you can tossthings around.
That's the first entry level.
That's what it can pretty muchafford.
That's really where you're at.
Sorry, that's where you're atand that's a lot.
Some people are gonna look atme and say you're crazy.
I know a lot of people, sorry,paying line cooks $14 to $18 an
(08:59):
hour, right, and you cannotsurvive that way.
I get it, but you know that'sunfortunately where it's at.
You know you come into arestaurant like mine.
You're going to start offtypically on salary here in my
place.
But you know, even the hourlypeople most of my people are $20
an hour and up, right, but Ivet them to make sure they're
(09:19):
worth that money and they canproduce and they have a passion.
I'm paying them for a serviceand they're all working overtime
hours.
They're all making a decentliving and they all raise up and
they all move forward when theywhen, if they're and when
they're right.
You know, if their eval comesaround and they're the same
person in the same mud hole thatthey were when they started and
haven't moved themselves up.
They're gonna, they're gonnaremain there and they go through
a few evals, a few sessions,sessions or a few um a year or
(09:41):
whatever, and I realized they'renot going to.
They're holding back the restof the team, Right, but the
average person coming in adishwasher man if you're, if
you're pulling in 14 to $17 anhour, you're doing good here.
I pay more than that becausethey're valuable, right?
You have two different thingsyou got to look at.
When someone hires people whoare hiring that are producing
money and people who are a cost.
(10:02):
Okay, a cook who is good isgoing to help you produce money.
They're going to put the foodon the table.
That's what people are there tobuy.
A dishwasher is going to cleanthe plate.
We need it.
It needs to be done it's anecessity but what they're doing
is not generating money.
It's costing money to have thatservice.
Almost like linens they look,look good, they're nice, but
(10:24):
they just cost money.
They cost a lot of money.
So for them to do their job,they just have to sit there For
a dishwasher to do their job.
They have to do a lot of work.
They're very important, they'renecessary, but all in all, the
job they're doing isn't bringingmoney on the table right.
It's an expense, so we have tobe careful of that.
It's easier to give more moneyto people who are creating more
(10:46):
money.
A good bar team, a good staff,a sommelier with a high end rate
of pay Based on sales, based onsales and you get a percentage
of sales.
Yeah, they are bringing thesales in, so it's easier to pay
them based off of what they'redoing, off of the court number
(11:08):
offended.
If you walk into a restaurant,look at, read the room, read
your situation, read your, readyour rank, right.
If you walk in and you're notreally, if you're a maintenance
person in the building, um,again, that's an expense.
We need it, it's necessary, ithas to be done, but it could be
budgeted and it could be broughtto someone else who can do it
for cheaper.
That's one of those things.
What you're doing is notgenerating money.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
It's not going to generate extra revenue based on
those necessities, right?
So anybody else that cangenerate extra revenue can make
more money off of that revenue.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
If you're a line cook going to get a job, you need to
accept the job where you wantto be, but you need to work hard
, and I'm using the word linecook.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
But again let's redefine what work hard means,
because people think that ifyou're here, you know 10 hour
shift, that's working hard.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
That's what people think, that's what they think
yeah.
But they're not working shit.
They're just here for 10 hoursand they think that's my problem
.
You're getting paid for it.
The compensation's there.
What you do in that 10 hours isthe whole difference of where
you're going to be next year.
You know what I mean.
If you come in, put your coffeedown, get your coffee.
I'll use that hypothetically.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Put your knife roll down, put your chef coat on, get
everything ready, okay, andwithin 10 minutes you're already
working, prepping.
You have your checklist.
You walk in with a bus tub orsomething, or your apron, and
you fill it with the majority ofwhat you need already.
Bring it back, start your prep.
Get your list done.
Now you're now.
(12:28):
You're cocked Now.
You're now.
You're cooking.
Right Now.
You're the type of person who'sworking smart, which is also
working hard to me, okay,working hard and smarter.
The same type of thing you knowyou can work harder than others
physically but smartly isyou're going to do it right.
Yeah, how many times are yougoing to do that?
When you're done your prep list, what are you doing for the
next person?
What are you doing to setyourself up for when we close
down?
What are you doing to make thisproduct better?
Anything you can do to help thesous chef or anything else.
(12:51):
Those are things that are goingto get you paid more when you
come in and just do your prepbecause you're so routine.
You just want to get it done.
You want to go outside andsmoke cigarettes.
You.
You want to go out and talk toyour girlfriend on the phone.
You got your air pod in becausethat's more important than what
you're doing.
You're bitching about the otherguy next to you, or you stop
cutting mushrooms every time,every fourth mushroom to talk
(13:13):
about the game last night.
Productivity, productivity.
Those are all the things thatare going to hold you back.
So don't be mad when you don'tget your raise because you've
been somewhere.
You're not going to get a raisefrom me just because you were
here.
What you do while you're here.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Or just because of an amount of time, like people
expect.
Every year they do a raise.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, I've been here for a year and I'm still making
the same money.
No, you've been here for a yearand you're still doing the same
shit.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
You haven't done anything above and beyond.
So let's clarify that your jobdescription is the bare minimum,
the bare minimum.
I think that's what people needto understand.
Your job description is thebare minimum.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
So when you walk into a kitchen and you sit down and
you have that interview or yoursecond interview and you finally
get on, if you go through astage or something, everyone's
excited and happy yeah, I can'twait, it's going to be great.
So much better than my otherplace.
We know the story right.
So if you come in, in and yousign the agreement, here we are,
I'm going to give you X amount.
There's room to move.
(14:05):
Trust me, it's all that dependson you.
Yes, I love it.
Thank you, chef, yes, chef, yes, chef, yes, chef.
And they come in and theycontinuously do exactly what we
talked about.
I don't care if you're doingthat for two years.
You're doing exactly what weagreed upon.
So until you do more than whatwe agreed upon, I'm not going to
give you more than what weagreed upon.
(14:26):
So until you do more than whatwe agreed upon, I'm not going to
give you more than what weagreed upon.
It's that simple.
So don't get so mad every timea chef or an owner or something
just you think they're beingtaken advantage of.
Honestly assess what you'redoing.
Honestly assess, prove to them.
Show a log, show a journal,have something.
You know what I mean.
Have something.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
I think it's like when you talk about every
business for employeedevelopment should have some
type of KPIs in place.
So you need key performanceindicators and whatever that
strategy may be.
So if it's for front of houseeasier because wine sales okay
yeah, I, this is.
This is what your KPIs are.
This is the numbers you need tohit monthly.
Anything over that generatesthis percent, anything over like
(15:01):
those are easier to track right.
So output and just general,like you know, just going above
and beyond, are your kind ofkpis in the kitchen right, so
it's a little bit different, butand it's harder to track
sometimes because you're notseeing everything it's not hard
to track if they take incentives.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So initiative rather.
So if, look, I get certifiedall the time for things.
I don't even need them.
I've got what I need.
I've worked my ass off, butthere are programs out there.
You can go get certified allthe time for things.
I don't even need them.
I've got what I need.
I've worked my ass off, butthere are programs out there.
You can go get certified inServeSafe.
You can get food managerqualifications.
You can get qualified toactually teach.
You can go to the ACF and getcertified as a sous chef or a
kitchen call me.
You can get certified as anexecutive.
(15:38):
There are certifications uponcertifications that you can go
get while you're working, and ifyou bring those to your
employer, right, they're goingto look at you and see you have
motivation.
If you stay stagnant all thetime and then expect more,
you're never going to get it.
But in the time you wereworking for me, if you come to
me with three or four differentcertificates that you went out
on your own, you are nowvaluable to me, true?
(15:58):
If you go off somewhere else,you are now going to be my
competition.
So If you go off somewhere else, you are now going to be my
competition, so I'm going tokeep you here.
Because of your certifications,you know what I mean and that's
the type of person that's goingto get the money and get the
raise, get the education.
I went and got my wine levelone quarter masters just because
I wanted to have what it is.
I expect my staff to do youwanted an understanding of it, I
(16:20):
want to understand it and Iwant to actually do it too.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
these are things you need to go get even as a server.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
If you get your, you know you go and get your level
one or you work in this just tolearn more about the product
you're selling you will, in turn, sell more and you will
generate more sales and you haveyour desired and you and you
have um, there's something aboutyou that people want to have,
right, so so that's where it'sat.
If you want more money in thechef industry or the culinary
industry, you need to go again.
(16:43):
You need to go get stuffyourself to make yourself almost
unobtainable by other people.
You need to make yourself.
So I have you, I want you, Ineed you here.
But if you're just sittingaround thinking that because
you've been here for a year anda half, you're supposed to get
more no, I was supposed to getmore.
This is a two-way street, man.
It's a twoway fucking street.
And if you're still slingingthe same saute pan with the same
(17:04):
sloppy apron and the same dirtyshoes, that is not going to get
you more.
It's only going to get you in.
You're here, we have anunderstanding.
Okay, let's do it.
That's cool.
I'll pay your paycheck, you domy work, and until one of us had
enough of each other it's goingto continue that.
But if you want to make moremoney in this industry, which
you absolutely can make yourselfseem unobtainable, go, get more
(17:25):
.
Get more, make yourselfvaluable.
That's what I got to say aboutthat.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
No, I think that's a great point.
I think that it's just thatgenerationally, like we've seen,
you know, and we don't like to,it's not generalizing, we don't
dog on everybody, but as anoverall, everybody right now is
expecting a lot more money forless because they think they can
go do it online.
Well then, go start yourOnlyFans and do it that way then
, because this is not the workthat you need to be doing.
(17:50):
If you want easy money that youdon't have to do shit for, go
start OnlyFans Chef Edition.
I don't know what the hell.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
There are people who do that shit?
They cook naked, they do allsorts of OnlyPans.
Can we copyright that?
Speaker 1 (18:06):
if it's on the podcast, so, so we said it first
, so it's copyright today isyeah, so this is april 2025.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
We have copyrighted only fans so listen, if you want
to make more money and you haveto do more work, you have to
make yourself more valuable.
Yeah, everyone out there wantsmore, more and more and more.
The problem is, so many peoplewant more for less that we have
a lot more to offer people whogo get it.
They're just not.
You're not going to entice me.
I'm going to give you exactlywhat we agreed upon.
If you don't do anything more,you're not getting anything more
(18:33):
.
If you go get a little bit moreright now, you're going to get
more because nobody is doing it.
You have no competition.
Get off your lazy ass and youwill be the best because there's
no competition out there.
Nobody's doing it.
Make yourself better today, dotcom.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Dot com.
You could stand out more todaythan you could ever in the past
because of that Because peoplejust don't want to do fucking
work.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Everything's still there.
The avenues are still wide open.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Still there.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Just get off your ass and go get it.
That's how you're going to makemore money in the chef world.
That's it.
That's all I got.
That's what you got on pay.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Okay, that's it.
Yeah, all right, should we justend it with that?
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Is that the end?
That's it, I'm done.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Okay, he's finished everybody.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I'm going to put on a white shirt.
Work more, work more, getanother job.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Stop squeezing water out of a fucking rock man.
Squeeze it, Squeeze it.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Keep squeezing, nothing's coming out.
Replace the rock man, get a wetone.
Ciao for now.
Ciao.
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